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| 00:09.42 | H-var | does anyone know some nice program available on debian servers for managing fans in a computer? |
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| 00:10.58 | derpadmin | hmm, I might be mistaken but sensord? |
| 00:11.49 | H-var | does it have a GUI derpadmin? |
| 00:12.31 | derpadmin | going from memory, not even sure if I am telling you the right info |
| 00:12.36 | derpadmin | let me look something up |
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| 00:15.12 | plp__ | does anyone know if the the rtl8821ce PCIe card work with buster? |
| 00:15.49 | derpadmin | H-var, https://linux.die.net/man/5/sensors.conf |
| 00:16.26 | derpadmin | set fanX_min and set fanX_div might do what you want, not sure |
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| 00:18.00 | plp__ | better yet, is there a guide to installing or troubleshooting wifi? The debian wiki doesn't provide details instructions unless I'm skipping over something |
| 00:18.11 | H-var | thank you derpadmin |
| 00:18.40 | dvs | plp__: I think that driver is in a newer kernel. You might want to try a backported kernel. |
| 00:18.41 | derpadmin | plp__, check if the card is recognized |
| 00:18.53 | H-var | unfortunately debian does not have sensord, derpadmin |
| 00:18.54 | derpadmin | and test with wpa_supplicant |
| 00:19.25 | derpadmin | H-var the binary is called sensors |
| 00:19.56 | derpadmin | and it sure works on my debian box |
| 00:20.26 | plp__ | derpadmin: thanks but how do i test with wpa_supplicant. I followed the deb guide to setting up wpa_supplicant |
| 00:20.29 | H-var | derpadmin, debian cannot find "sensors" among its packages |
| 00:20.49 | derpadmin | which sensors |
| 00:20.49 | derpadmin | /usr/bin/sensors |
| 00:21.01 | H-var | I don't know :D |
| 00:21.14 | H-var | I just need a program with gui and sliders :D |
| 00:21.25 | plp__ | dvs: how would I do that first time using debian so I'm clueless about backports |
| 00:21.51 | dvs | !bpo |
| 00:21.52 | dpkg | backports.debian.org (formerly backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <buster backports>) and oldstable (<stretch backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/. See also <bdo kernel> <bdo mirrors> <bdo contents> <bdo list> <bdo bugs> <bdo xorg> <bdo NEW>. |
| 00:23.02 | sponix | H-var: if you are looking for programs with graphics and sliders, try MSI Afterburner on Windows 10 |
| 00:24.08 | sponix | H-var: I just control my fan speed through the UEFI - Mine has sliders in there :) |
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| 00:42.05 | H-var | sphonix yeah, I'll just fine-tune better mine in bios too |
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| 06:20.57 | davorin | good morning everyone (o; |
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| 06:28.06 | astronavt | good morning and greetings from bullseye |
| 06:28.39 | davorin | someone has an idea why a udev won't work when powering on/rebooting? |
| 06:29.44 | davorin | it only works when doing on boot a: echo 1504 008C > /sys/bus/usb-serial/drivers/ftdi_sio/new_id |
| 06:29.55 | davorin | after that the udev rule works when plugging the usb device in/out |
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| 06:44.24 | themill | davorin: that's an unusual vendor for an ftdi device |
| 06:44.42 | davorin | it's a bixolon pos display |
| 06:44.45 | ratrace | davorin: define "won't work". pretty sure udev works or you wouldn't be able to boot at all. do you mean some custom rule you wrote doesn't work as expected? |
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| 06:45.13 | davorin | well have this rule defined: |
| 06:45.15 | davorin | ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM="usb", ATTRS{idVendor}=="1504", ATTRS{idProduct}=="008C", MODE="0666", GROUP="dialout", RUN+="/usr/bin/echo 1504 008C > /sys/bus/usb-serial/drivers/ftdi_sio/new_id" |
| 06:45.27 | davorin | but it won't add the /dev/ttyUSB0 device then |
| 06:45.53 | davorin | so had to add this in crontab: |
| 06:46.00 | davorin | @reboot echo 1504 008C > /sys/bus/usb-serial/drivers/ftdi_sio/new_id |
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| 06:46.09 | davorin | then it works |
| 06:47.02 | davorin | so the udev rule works actually...but not when powering on/reboot without the crontab entry |
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| 06:49.52 | ratrace | davorin: you mean the echo works, but the udev rule is not triggered. RUN+ is not a shell. you must explicitely invoke shell in it |
| 06:50.04 | ratrace | eg. RUN+="sh -c 'echo ....'" |
| 06:50.16 | ratrace | full path. /bin/sh -c ... |
| 06:50.26 | davorin | well the full path is in thee udev rule |
| 06:50.42 | davorin | ah with shell |
| 06:50.45 | ratrace | davorin: but > is meaningless for "RUN". You need to invoke it in context of a shell for > to work |
| 06:51.26 | davorin | but why does it work afterwards with the "sh" in the rule? |
| 06:52.21 | davorin | in other rules i also don't see a shell |
| 06:52.21 | ratrace | because contents of RUN are not interpreted as a shell command |
| 06:52.37 | davorin | SUBSYSTEM=="module", ACTION=="add", DEVPATH=="/module/ni_usb_gpib", RUN+="/usr/local/lib/udev/gpib_udevadm_wrapper trigger --property-match DRIVER=ni_usb_gpib" |
| 06:53.12 | ratrace | there is no stdout redirection in there, just a command invocation, which is what RUN does, yes |
| 06:53.41 | ratrace | you want redirection, you need a shell to interpret it. OR, put your echo in a script and invoke the script from RUN |
| 06:54.05 | davorin | ah now i get it....redirection is the key |
| 06:54.13 | davorin | thanks (o; |
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| 07:09.40 | davorin | nope..doesn't work |
| 07:10.13 | davorin | using an external shell script....which i already used in crontab with @reboot... |
| 07:10.15 | davorin | ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM="usb", ATTRS{idVendor}=="1504", ATTRS{idProduct}=="008C", MODE="0666", GROUP="dialout", RUN+="/usr/local/bin/pypos.sh" |
| 07:11.22 | ratrace | ,pciid 1504:008c |
| 07:11.23 | judd | [1504:008c] is 'Unknown device' from 'KAISER Electronics' with no known kernel module in stretch or in sid. See also http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=1504:008c |
| 07:12.12 | themill | it's usb not pci though |
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| 07:12.22 | ratrace | ah, right |
| 07:12.39 | davorin | well i'll stick with my @reboot approach... |
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| 07:13.57 | themill | I don't recall whether ATTRS{idProduct} is case sensitive |
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| 07:15.15 | ratrace | davorin: so basically the issue is most likely in finding the correct match trigger for the rule. if you have to echo the vendor ID to teh driver to create a new node, it's possible the kernel doesn't even create an event for udev to trigger on it |
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| 07:15.46 | ratrace | anything in dmesg about it from the kernel _before_ you echo the id? |
| 07:15.56 | davorin | i see that something is happening when monitoring udev..and plugging/unplugging the pos display |
| 07:16.12 | davorin | trying 008c instead of 008C now.. |
| 07:16.22 | ratrace | davorin: but _before_ you manually echo the new_id? |
| 07:18.01 | davorin | [ 3.166166] usb 1-3: New USB device found, idVendor=1504, idProduct=008c, bcdDevice= 6.00 |
| 07:18.37 | kats99 | I'm trying to run servo browser using the tar.xz package and installed libgstreamer-plugins-bad1.0 but when I execute the file it says version GLIBC_2.29', GLIBCXX_3.4.26' not found (required by ./servo/servo). I'm on Debian 10.6 |
| 07:19.52 | ratrace | kats99: sounds like you'll need bullseye for that |
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| 07:20.51 | ratrace | you can debootstrap a bullseye chroot (or use nspawn) just for this |
| 07:20.53 | genr8_ | ,v libc6 |
| 07:20.54 | judd | Package: libc6 on amd64 -- jessie: 2.19-18+deb8u10; jessie-security: 2.19-18+deb8u10; stretch-security: 2.24-11+deb9u1; stretch: 2.24-11+deb9u4; buster: 2.28-10; bullseye: 2.31-3; sid: 2.31-4 |
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| 07:23.10 | ratrace | (now I'm assuming that's the minimum glibc version it requires, but if it requires that exact version, then it won't work, you'll have to rebuild or find a build for debian's libc versions) |
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| 07:24.16 | kats99 | haven't used debootstrap so will that download bullseye from https://deb.debian.org/debian/ |
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| 07:26.41 | jelly | kats99, do the servo people have a binary made for debian 10? |
| 07:26.57 | another | it will install any debian form any mirror you tell it into the folder you give it |
| 07:27.26 | kats99 | no |
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| 07:28.20 | ratrace | kats99: debootstrap bootstraps a minimal debian installation into a directory, without the kernel and without some minimal settings that you have to set up manually depending on how you intend to use the installation (eg. root password, fstab+kernel+grub if you intend to boot into it, networking, sshd or other software needed, ...) |
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| 07:29.20 | kats99 | ah okay then |
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| 07:31.08 | davorin | hmm..the script isn't called at all in the udev rule |
| 07:31.42 | genr8_ | try /bin/sh /path/to/the/script.sh |
| 07:31.55 | genr8_ | instead of just putting the .sh in the run |
| 07:32.11 | spl33n | hello I need to configure HAProxy to use Consul service discovery for increase my website to 3 running containers in debian buster |
| 07:33.35 | davorin | same... |
| 07:35.44 | genr8_ | maybe it only runs when you access the udev |
| 07:36.41 | davorin | well udevadm monitor --udev shows something when plugging in |
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| 07:38.23 | genr8_ | i forgot how udev works. my concern is the RUN rule may only run when you actually go to access it instead of just connecting it |
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| 07:38.40 | davorin | well there's nothing to access... |
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| 07:39.41 | genr8_ | in this case. so youre saying its a catch 22. but that may just be how it works. |
| 07:41.07 | davorin | reading now https://www.thegeekdiary.com/how-to-run-a-script-when-usb-devices-is-attached-or-removed-using-udev/ |
| 07:42.16 | genr8_ | maybe it wants RUN== instead of RUN+= for the first command |
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| 07:48.11 | davorin | no difference..also going by product doesn't work... |
| 07:48.12 | davorin | ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM="usb", ENV{PRODUCT}=="1504/8c/600", RUN=="/bin/sh /usr/local/bin/pypos.sh" |
| 07:48.49 | genr8_ | maybe your script is just broken |
| 07:49.25 | davorin | nope...the same script i used in the crontab on boot |
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| 07:50.35 | genr8_ | you're gonna figure it out and its gonna be something silly |
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| 07:51.37 | ratrace | davorin: the catch22 problem sounds more plausible. udev doesn't get event notification because the kernel doesn't recognize the device, because you have to explicitly add it to the driver via that echo. |
| 07:51.47 | ratrace | ie, just use the crontab or write a proper service unit for it even. |
| 07:52.49 | genr8_ | or maybe 2 rules somehow |
| 07:52.49 | davorin | doing that now actually... |
| 07:52.59 | davorin | only crontab...no udev rule |
| 07:53.57 | davorin | and of course forcing the ftdi_sio kernel module load |
| 07:54.52 | ratrace | davorin: did you say that's a POS device? |
| 07:55.01 | davorin | a pos display |
| 07:55.09 | ratrace | so basically something that should be plugged in on boot? |
| 07:55.29 | ratrace | or do you specifically require hotplugging it at any time? |
| 07:55.31 | davorin | https://www.bixolon.com/product_view.php?idx=162 |
| 07:55.43 | davorin | ah no...it should be always plugged in |
| 07:55.48 | davorin | but you never know (o; |
| 07:56.04 | ratrace | so then having a crontab or service would fix your issue for now |
| 07:56.36 | davorin | but forcing the ftdi kernel module to accept the usb id is all that's needed apparently |
| 07:57.09 | genr8_ | there may be a module parameter for that |
| 07:57.37 | davorin | might be |
| 07:57.49 | davorin | so even booting without the pos display this works... |
| 07:58.02 | davorin | keep it simple and stupid (o; |
| 07:58.44 | davorin | so now only have to find an easy way to output a 12v signal to open the cash drawer (o; |
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| 07:58.45 | ratrace | yes, maybe options ftdi-sio ids=1504:008c in a file like arbitrarily named /etc/modprobe.d/99-pos-lcd.conf |
| 07:58.58 | ratrace | (assuming the module is "ftdi-sio") |
| 07:59.02 | davorin | it is... |
| 07:59.04 | genr8_ | yea thats what im thinking |
| 07:59.35 | ratrace | but that would require the device to be plugged in on boot, yes. |
| 07:59.55 | genr8_ | maybe not |
| 08:00.11 | genr8_ | if the module loads with that parameter, the module will stay loaded |
| 08:00.24 | davorin | well currently it doesn't require the device to be plugged in |
| 08:00.33 | ratrace | yes but when are the ids evaluated for the driver? |
| 08:00.50 | ratrace | if they're evaluated on any hotplug even, then indeed this would be the final solution |
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| 08:01.03 | ratrace | *event |
| 08:01.21 | genr8_ | depends on the driver i guess |
| 08:01.41 | davorin | i assume this echo 1504 008C > /sys/bus/usb-serial/drivers/ftdi_sio/new_id just adds the ids to the actual list of ids to be handled |
| 08:01.55 | davorin | regardless being plugged or not |
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| 08:02.18 | davorin | but overall...happy with this approach... |
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| 08:02.34 | davorin | the whole system is a shuttle p51u all-in-one system running a python kivy pos app |
| 08:02.42 | ratrace | I'm not sure. my entire expirience with adding new ids like that and via modprobe optoins is for vfio-pci, and that action requires the device to be existing at that moment, and reassigns it to the driver (At least in the case of vfio-pci module) |
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| 08:03.34 | davorin | well pci isn't meant for hotplug...maybe that's why |
| 08:03.53 | genr8_ | there is such a thing |
| 08:04.05 | ratrace | sure is :) CONFIG_HOTPLUG_PCI_* drivers |
| 08:04.22 | davorin | anyway...works for me now ;-) |
| 08:04.26 | ratrace | and by default on debian, CONFIG_HOTPLUG_PCI=y |
| 08:04.56 | ratrace | davorin: so to recap, you added the modprobe line? and does it work on hotplug too? |
| 08:05.22 | davorin | ah no...just kept the @reboot script |
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| 08:05.55 | ratrace | and does the @reboot script enable hotplugging of the device? |
| 08:06.26 | davorin | rebooting now with device unplugged |
| 08:06.28 | ratrace | ie, does adding the IDs to the new_id sys/usb node, make it assign the device to the driver when you plug it _later_ ? |
| 08:06.57 | davorin | okay..rebooted...now plugging in the pos display |
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| 08:07.30 | davorin | and: [ 35.564679] usb 1-3: Detected FT232RL |
| 08:07.30 | davorin | [ 35.564999] usb 1-3: FTDI USB Serial Device converter now attached to ttyUSB0 |
| 08:07.38 | ratrace | very nice! |
| 08:08.14 | davorin | maybe i'll try the modprobe approach later... |
| 08:08.23 | ratrace | I'd do that anyway because it's the .... "more correct" way to do it. |
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| 08:08.29 | davorin | (o; |
| 08:08.51 | ratrace | I mean last thing I'd check is a crontab when trying to figure out of a system is explicitly setting up modules for modprobe :) |
| 08:08.58 | ratrace | /etc/modprobe.d/ is the place for that. |
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| 08:10.08 | ratrace | (might require you to add ftdi-sio to /etc/modules to explicitly "modprobe" it on boot, as well) |
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| 08:16.12 | davorin | hmm..ftdi_sio doesn't get loaded |
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| 08:20.33 | davorin | nope..modprobe approach isn't working |
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| 08:25.00 | davorin | back to /etc/modules with just ftdi_sio and crontab |
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| 08:50.35 | kats99 | I installed bullseye using debootstrap and installed all the libraries needed by servo..now it says Failed to initialize any backend! Wayland status: XdgRuntimeDirNotSet X11 status: XOpenDisplayFailed when I run it |
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| 08:53.35 | ratrace | kats99: you need to bind mount the .X11-unix dir from the host into the container. look up "chroot X11 applications" for your specific use case |
| 08:53.53 | ratrace | the /tmp/.X11-unix/ I mean, but also use xhost to allow the container to access it |
| 08:54.17 | ratrace | oh you'll also need to bind mount audio and drm devices (for hw acceleration) if you need those |
| 08:54.27 | kats99 | 'okay.. |
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| 09:46.26 | kevmitch | what is supposed to provide /usr/bin/python now? python-minimal got nuked by upgrade and python[23]-minimal both only provide /usr/bin/python[23] |
| 09:46.36 | kevmitch | was something supposed to set up an alternatives entry? |
| 09:46.49 | kevmitch | this is on sid |
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| 09:48.29 | jelly | kevmitch, nothing, /usr/bin/python is gone |
| 09:49.07 | rj1 | you are the top of our mountain, the cream in our cups |
| 09:49.08 | rj1 | oops wrong window |
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| 09:51.14 | jelly | kevmitch, presumably when python2 is eradicated completely python3 might take that place |
| 09:51.34 | jelly | best ask in |
| 09:51.36 | jelly | !debian-next |
| 09:51.37 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also https://wiki.debian.org/IRC and https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc |
| 09:52.07 | ratrace | jelly: is it gone? per PEP-<I forgot number> /usr/bin/python becomes python3 with the EOL of 2 |
| 09:55.01 | ratrace | I guess Debian isn't following the PEP too close |
| 09:55.56 | ratrace | Okay, per PEP-394, "Distributors may choose to set the behavior of the python command as follows". so it's not _required_. |
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| 09:57.24 | themill | They keep rewriting the text of that PEP in ways that make it hard for anything to follow it. |
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| 10:00.07 | ratrace | I'm sure more confusion will follow when python4 is released |
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| 10:00.21 | Haohmaru | aww, moar SNEKs /o\ |
| 10:00.53 | sorcerer | im running debian in the form of MX Linux lol |
| 10:01.04 | themill | There is also https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/what-is-python_5.html |
| 10:01.09 | Haohmaru | aka you're not running debian |
| 10:01.16 | ratrace | whenever that happens... /usr/bin/python _should_ be enforced now, or when 4 is released, if it remains backwards compatible (as the BDFL of SNEK implied it would be), then all this py2/py3 confusion is just gonna happen again |
| 10:07.25 | jelly | what is python 5? :-) |
| 10:08.22 | Haohmaru | yet another snek |
| 10:09.52 | ratrace | python5 is when python, perl and php unite in a single language. Written in Rust. |
| 10:10.10 | ratrace | (and the way python3.9 is getting new syntax, I'm MAYBE NOT joking at all!) |
| 10:11.03 | Haohmaru | reality can be scarier than your worst nightmares |
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| 10:15.22 | jelly | ,v python3.9 |
| 10:15.23 | judd | Package: python3.9 on amd64 -- bullseye: 3.9.0-1; sid: 3.9.0-1 |
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| 10:55.36 | genr8_ | will ubuntu end up eating debian alive ? the snake eating itself |
| 10:56.18 | genr8_ | how many times would the word ubuntu come up if you grep all debian packages |
| 10:56.31 | azeem | genr8_: please keep it on topic |
| 10:58.06 | genr8_ | is upgrading from debian to ubuntu supported ? |
| 10:59.00 | azeem | no |
| 10:59.06 | rawtaz | genr8_: that's something youll have to ask the target platform, obviously. |
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| 11:09.23 | queip | why dpkg says I have kmail "kmail 4:18.08.3-1" but kmail about says "Version 5.9.3" ? |
| 11:10.19 | azeem | one is the Debian package version, the other the internal version as known to the program |
| 11:10.38 | azeem | usually they should match, but why they don't is a question to the kmail maintainers and/or the kmail developers |
| 11:12.30 | queip | also, why we do not have any *good* email program in Debian? |
| 11:13.00 | queip | thunderbird - very bad pgp support since few days, and very slow pgp support (and memleak) in older version |
| 11:13.11 | queip | kmail - stops downloading emails, literally unusable |
| 11:14.34 | another | ,i claws-mail |
| 11:14.38 | judd | Package claws-mail (mail, optional) in buster/amd64: Fast, lightweight and user-friendly GTK+2 based email client. Version: 3.17.3-2; Size: 1563.3k; Installed: 4315k; Homepage: https://www.claws-mail.org; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/claws-mail |
| 11:15.07 | queip | another: first of it's C code looks like one huge remote code execution, with pointer arithmetics like if it was coded around 80's |
| 11:15.11 | ratrace | me gusta Roundcube |
| 11:15.15 | queip | *its |
| 11:15.18 | queip | ratrace: lol. no |
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| 11:15.40 | another | the only thing missing is IMAP idle |
| 11:16.56 | ratrace | there's some fancy schmancy clients available via snaps and maybe flatpaks |
| 11:17.02 | ratrace | Mailspring for instance |
| 11:17.16 | queip | ratrace: I guess, but I wanted something in debian. with security updates and all |
| 11:17.50 | ratrace | snaps or flatpaks aren't precluding "security updates and all" |
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| 11:17.58 | ratrace | in fact quite the contrary |
| 11:18.53 | ratrace | you'll get an update sooner via snaps (and probably flatpaks, haven't used much of them to be certain) than via .deb. granted, you'll also probably get a version bump with all the new features. |
| 11:19.15 | ratrace | but, I mean, if that works for you, it's an option. |
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| 11:23.41 | queip | how to check which backend is used by the god-frosaken Akondai server? |
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| 11:23.54 | queip | it seems Akonadi+MySQL is the root of problems with KMail |
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| 11:24.42 | ratrace | akonadi is root of many problems on kde in general |
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| 11:25.09 | ratrace | turns a perfectly working, lean mean computing machine, into a slugfest of worse than winXP crawl |
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| 11:28.33 | queip | shame |
| 11:28.45 | queip | some say akonadi+postgresql is less crappy. |
| 11:28.55 | queip | and blame debian for packaging it the wrong way |
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| 11:30.37 | ratrace | it's not the backend but the intrusiventess of search indexing |
| 11:30.44 | ratrace | *intrusiveness |
| 11:31.14 | queip | why not patch it out |
| 11:31.24 | queip | is this that idiotic Nepumoko that was a plague many many years ago? |
| 11:32.02 | ratrace | Nepomuk is separate iirc |
| 11:32.10 | ratrace | but should be possible to disable them all |
| 11:32.40 | azeem | wouldn't sqlite be more appropriate as akonadi backend? |
| 11:32.45 | azeem | or does that not work at all |
| 11:34.04 | queip | how to confirm which backend is used by my akonadi? |
| 11:35.29 | ratrace | is more than one installed? |
| 11:36.07 | queip | ok only mysql is installed, ratrace |
| 11:36.18 | queip | maybe I should throw it into the ditch and use -postgresql? |
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| 11:37.02 | ratrace | depends. if it's using myisam engine for mysql, then mysql would be better performing |
| 11:38.37 | queip | akonadi is not performing at all |
| 11:38.47 | queip | it just stops downloading emails, with no error messages (Waited few hours) |
| 11:38.52 | ratrace | should be possible to disable it completely no? |
| 11:39.05 | queip | bug is so common that I hit this bug during first 2 hours of using kmail |
| 11:39.35 | queip | ratrace: to disable what? |
| 11:39.38 | ratrace | akonadi |
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| 11:40.45 | ratrace | oh wait, kmail is using it for actual email storage?! lololol. I thought it was just PIM metadata |
| 11:41.01 | ratrace | is happy it left KDE and other big DEs many years ago |
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| 11:43.37 | davorin | wasn't there some cde clone available? |
| 11:43.49 | davorin | loved that back then on sunos4/5 |
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| 11:44.35 | azeem | davorin: just build it yourself? |
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| 11:45.20 | rawtaz | queip: do you want a GUI one or are you fine with a CLI one? |
| 11:47.48 | queip | rawtaz: I prefer gui, although what would be a cli one that is really good? and coded in C full of exploits |
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| 11:49.09 | rawtaz | queip: i just happen to know that there's aerc which is CLI and also astroid (https://astroidmail.github.io) which is GUI. i too think its hard to find options. |
| 11:49.28 | rawtaz | queip: FWIW aerc is written in Go, but uses CGO for some small parts such as sqlite |
| 11:51.14 | davorin | well seems not maintained anymore as it fails building... |
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| 11:51.21 | rawtaz | what does? |
| 11:52.58 | queip | well, I wanted actually something in Debian |
| 11:53.15 | queip | if we can not provide a good email client, then this is worse situation than it was 20 years ago |
| 11:53.25 | queip | Debian can't even full fill most basic home&office needs |
| 11:53.37 | codedmart | I am going to be setting up a new computer. I will only have 1 2TB ssd to start. I will use btrfs, but do I need to setup btrfs any particular way if I plan on adding another ssd later? Still fairly new to btrfs. |
| 11:53.46 | rawtaz | no linux desktop can fulfill proper usability, but most of the basics i think |
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| 11:54.53 | jelly | ,v thunderbird |
| 11:54.54 | judd | Package: thunderbird on amd64 -- jessie: 1:52.8.0-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 1:68.9.0-1~deb8u2; stretch-proposed-updates: 1:68.9.0-1~deb9u1; stretch: 1:68.10.0-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 1:68.10.0-1~deb9u1; buster: 1:68.12.0-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 1:68.12.0-1; buster-security: 1:78.3.1-2~deb10u2; sid: 1:78.3.2-1 |
| 11:54.59 | Franciman | queip, you just need to deal with it harder |
| 11:55.02 | Franciman | but don't give up |
| 11:55.08 | oerheks | tons of good emailclients. |
| 11:55.09 | jelly | queip, thunderbird 78 is in debian |
| 11:55.22 | Franciman | you can also try a backported version of golang |
| 11:55.27 | Franciman | and compile aerc |
| 11:55.56 | davorin | well there are loads of good installable packages for debian, or app images....just when doing graphics/dtp then you might end up using another os |
| 11:56.18 | rawtaz | or when you want to print something properly. or when you need an email client that's actually usable and not full of bugs |
| 11:56.24 | davorin | but for electronics/software development and 3d, i never use anything else than debian |
| 11:56.41 | rawtaz | thats nice :) do you use blender, or what stuff are you using? |
| 11:57.29 | Franciman | I'm thrilled of the idea of having a free OS |
| 11:57.31 | Franciman | as in freedom |
| 11:57.37 | Franciman | debian just rocks |
| 11:57.43 | Franciman | except when it makes my network fail |
| 11:57.46 | Franciman | because it's too free :P |
| 11:57.56 | rawtaz | how can it be too free in that regard? |
| 11:59.01 | ratrace | it's allergic to firmware |
| 11:59.19 | Franciman | yep, I was just kidding though :) |
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| 12:01.13 | queip | dpkg: tell jelly new thunderbird update few days ago, broke pgp support. The integrated support is bad. |
| 12:01.55 | ratrace | how did it "break" pgp support? |
| 12:02.11 | ratrace | afaik, enigmail became redundant as thunderbird grew that functionality? |
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| 12:03.22 | queip | ratrace: they provide internal pgp engine |
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| 12:03.25 | queip | this is very bad idea |
| 12:03.45 | queip | all your private keys - are not available in thunderbird. |
| 12:04.04 | queip | you need to export own privkeys from gpg, and import them into thunderbird |
| 12:04.12 | ratrace | but can you use enigmail? |
| 12:04.35 | queip | ratrace: no, new update broken old plugins. This is the Mozilla Way(tm) apparently |
| 12:04.55 | queip | so this is a bad idea to store my privkeys in some random program |
| 12:05.11 | ksk | by definition, yes. |
| 12:05.24 | rawtaz | please stop being so critizising.. you're talking about people who spend a lot of their free and unpaid time writing software that the rest of the world uses. even if they make mistakes and break things, it's not fair to talk about their work in such a condescending way. |
| 12:05.42 | queip | any rules to protect ~/.gnupg/ so that only /usr/bin/gpg can acess it? nope, need to also allow bin/thunderbird (firejail, apparmor, etc) |
| 12:05.49 | rawtaz | its not like they do it on purpose |
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| 12:06.07 | ratrace | but also to be fair, Thunderbird was being basically discontinued few years no |
| 12:06.08 | ratrace | *now |
| 12:06.13 | queip | rawtaz: if I see someone breaking a totally good tool, no matter the purpose, it should be noted so something can be changed |
| 12:06.34 | rawtaz | queip: yes, but there's a difference to saying "it broke in the last update" and suggesting that this is the mozilla way. seriously, tf. |
| 12:06.38 | rawtaz | +w |
| 12:07.06 | queip | all your known public keys of all other users, and trust levels? nope, thunderbird doesn see them |
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| 12:07.43 | queip | and all future updates, like web of trust, trusting a key and all - all need to be done twice now, in gnupg, and in thunder |
| 12:07.45 | ratrace | " you need to export own privkeys from gpg, and import them into thunderbird" :: so basically, it's not broken you just have to reimport? |
| 12:07.54 | queip | also, pin entry is not working (so smartcards and all) |
| 12:09.06 | queip | ratrace: Mozilla at least once disabled all old plugins (in firefox) |
| 12:10.14 | queip | ratrace: I do not want to reimport, because then I need to have two set of privkeys, known pubkeys, trust levels - to maintain in 2 places now, and because gnupg isolation might be a good idea for security |
| 12:10.43 | queip | external signing works all right. Kmail uses it it seems. But kmail is unworkable for another reason, the akonadi-mysql problem |
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| 12:11.37 | ratrace | queip: mozilla has been doing these changes to ensure longevity of a better API. that's what the quantum was about and removal of XUL methinks even in thunderbird, AND decoupling of thunderbird from firefox |
| 12:12.27 | ratrace | so the effort to reimport the key is really a very acceptable price for otherwise free program that wouldn't have the money or developer time to maintain multiple coexisting APIs and paradigms |
| 12:12.55 | queip | ratrace: importing privkeys into some random program is not acceptable for the reasons I listed above |
| 12:13.13 | queip | bin/gpg should be only binary touching files in ~/.gnupg/ |
| 12:13.18 | ratrace | "some random program"? |
| 12:14.22 | queip | the integrated openpgp support should just use gnupg |
| 12:14.48 | ratrace | why? what's the difference? |
| 12:15.31 | genr8_ | he has a point |
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| 12:16.39 | queip | ratrace: 1) less isolation (can't set system to deny access to .gnupg data to all but bin/gpg) 2) two places to maintain my privkeys (e.g. revoking old key) 3) two places to set trust levels 4) no support for smart cards 5) I do not like their pinentry, I want to be asked each time and per-my-ID to avoid mistakes if I have few own keys |
| 12:16.59 | queip | 3b) two places to import known pubkeys |
| 12:19.47 | queip | also, it is the Unix Way to have separate programs cooperating. Thunder can leave internal engine for like windows users I guess, but on linuxes should re-add external gpg |
| 12:20.19 | genr8_ | have you considered downgrading back to when it worked ? |
| 12:20.44 | queip | genr8_: older thunderbird was changed in stable for a good reason, according to bug report it contained important security bugs |
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| 12:25.34 | queip | rawtaz: btw, Mozilla developers are not really "[spending] their free and unpaid time writing software", at least not only - many are paid. Just a nitpick, because I see this myth repeated often. No matter the reason, I just wanted to continue office work today, and suddenly I can't using the tools provided by Debian |
| 12:26.29 | rawtaz | queip: yeah, but there's a ton of unpaid work under the mozilla umbrella too, even if some of them are paid :) |
| 12:26.37 | rawtaz | i understand it's frustrating when things break |
| 12:26.55 | rawtaz | personally i dont use thunderbird at all because it sucks at grouping related messages (and some other htings) |
| 12:26.55 | genr8_ | If you would like to discuss end-to-end encrypted email in Thunderbird, need help setting it up, or have other questions related to this topic please do so on our e2ee mailing list: https://thunderbird.topicbox.com/groups/e2ee |
| 12:27.12 | blodkorv | so whats the conclusion here? |
| 12:27.34 | blodkorv | regarding thunderbird and other email-clients on debian |
| 12:27.40 | rawtaz | queip: i think thunderbird needs someone to step up and start maintaining it more actively, and improve it. perhaps even merge stff from other forks of it. you up for that? :D |
| 12:27.44 | queip | blodkorv: none of Debian's email clients meet my criteria of: full support of PGP (via gnupg) while being generally usable in other ways |
| 12:27.56 | blodkorv | ok i see |
| 12:28.15 | genr8_ | https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:OpenPGP |
| 12:28.46 | queip | rawtaz: well I work like 50 hours per week as it is, in software. If someone would make a kick starter to create a really good open source email client (or fix&maintain existing) I would tip in |
| 12:28.53 | blodkorv | the only problem i have with thunderbird is that i cannot use the same signatures as the others in my office has made in outlook |
| 12:29.18 | queip | blodkorv: you upgraded recently, and imported all keys into thunder? |
| 12:29.25 | dvs | keeps evolution to himself |
| 12:30.09 | blodkorv | @queip we dont use pgp so never had that problem, i am talking about email signatures, the little "footnotes" in the message |
| 12:30.17 | queip | ah |
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| 12:30.50 | genr8_ | Advanced users may attempt to view internal error messages produced by the OpenPGP cryptographic engine that Thunderbird uses (the RNP library). To do so, you need to set the environment variable called RNP_LOG_CONSOLE=1 |
| 12:31.02 | blodkorv | the others used the tiny editor to make quite an elaborate signature and i have to remkae it in html but it looks different |
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| 12:31.31 | queip | genr8_: nice, I was just about to write that thunderbird doesn't even have a mailing list, just offer a matrix chat (where matrix is not really good, even irc works better) |
| 12:33.00 | genr8_ | yeah. the devs probably dont hear a lot of serious complaints so you should report them up the chain of command |
| 12:33.09 | queip | dvs: I see evolution seems to lack DSN (disposition status notification). I start to think only thunder has that. |
| 12:33.44 | genr8_ | maybe you investigate this OpenPGP "RNP library" too, to find what can be done about integrating it with the systems gpg .local user keyring |
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| 12:42.20 | jim | is there a mechanism other than putting lines in /etc/modules, for loading modules at boot? I tried that, and it's not loading the module I want |
| 12:43.13 | greycat | Might help if you said what the module is and why you need it to be loaded manually instead of automatically. Also important is whether you need it during the initramfs phase, or after that. |
| 12:45.58 | jim | it's v4l2loopback.ko |
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| 12:46.38 | genr8_ | in that file, you leave off the .ko |
| 12:46.50 | queip | what will debian do when I instsall akondapi postgresql instead default mysql, will it migrate all data? |
| 12:47.19 | jim | I don't think I need it during initrd phase, as long as it's loaded by the time I run obs |
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| 12:48.12 | jim | I don't think there's a mechanism that loads that module automatically |
| 12:48.19 | greycat | In that case, I would expect /etc/modules to work fine... does it load if you type "modprobe v412loopback"? Are there any errors from journalctl showing it trying to load and failing? |
| 12:48.31 | jim | yes |
| 12:48.38 | jim | err, |
| 12:48.48 | jim | it -does- load when I modprobe it |
| 12:49.20 | jim | it's not on the net, sec let me log it in |
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| 12:50.49 | genr8_ | When you write modules in /etc/modules, you dont write the .ko |
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| 12:57.02 | jim | genr8_, yes I'm aware of that |
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| 13:02.34 | queip | perhaps switching to akonadi-backend-postgresql will make kmail usable |
| 13:02.40 | queip | shouldn't debian default to that? |
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| 13:03.14 | azeem | queip: maybe you should evaluate that first |
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| 13:03.26 | jim | greycat, running journalctl (which puts me in "less"), then typing /v4l, no matches |
| 13:03.27 | queip | can we default to that in case if it turns out to work |
| 13:03.37 | azeem | I don't know, I'm not the kmail maintainer |
| 13:03.43 | azeem | and/or akonadi maintainer |
| 13:03.46 | Franciman | hm the text in gtk applications flickers, when it is printed |
| 13:03.47 | queip | although that seems to be consensus among kde users, akonadi+mysql=trouble but +pgsql is ok |
| 13:04.01 | Franciman | for example in sakura, if I run apt search xserver-xorg-video-intel |
| 13:04.05 | Franciman | the result flickers |
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| 13:04.23 | Franciman | does anybody notice this too? I'm using the backported kernel 5.8 |
| 13:04.54 | azeem | queip: I'm not sure how well suited postgres is for this kinda embedded usage |
| 13:05.06 | azeem | or rather, the Debian postgres packaging |
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| 13:40.44 | jim | greycat, actually, I did find something by running journalctl | v4l (instead of searching journalctl with the instance of 'less' it spawns), I'm getting this: Oct 12 05:30:02 hplap2 systemd-modules-load[790]: Failed to find module 'v4l2loopback video_nr=10 card_label="loopback" exclusive_caps=1' |
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| 13:41.23 | greycat | sounds like you did not put "v412loopback" in /etc/modules |
| 13:41.34 | greycat | sounds like you put "v412loopback a bunch of crap" instead |
| 13:41.49 | jim | the parameters, yes |
| 13:42.24 | greycat | try getting rid of the double quotes maybe... modules(5) does say you can supply arguments, but doesn't give much detail |
| 13:42.38 | greycat | so I'm guessing the double quotes confused it |
| 13:43.10 | jim | yep, just read it |
| 13:44.21 | jim | so maybe replacing with single quotes? but wait, doesn't it look like it took the whole line (including the params) and tried to match that whole thing with the name of a module? |
| 13:44.53 | greycat | just get rid of all the quotes on the line, why do you even think you need any |
| 13:44.57 | ratrace | module options go to /etc/modprobe.d/<somewhere>; /etc/modules just lists them afaik |
| 13:45.04 | greycat | there's nothing about the word loopback that indicates a need for quoting |
| 13:45.17 | H4ndy | jim: ready up in linux-support in discord |
| 13:45.21 | greycat | ratrace: if that's true, the modules(5) is lying quite profoundly |
| 13:45.42 | jim | H4ndy, I'm already there |
| 13:46.03 | jim | greycat gimme a few mins |
| 13:46.06 | ratrace | greycat: wouldn't be the first time a manpage lied profoundly; also, I could be wrong about /etc/modules |
| 13:46.08 | greycat | (which is possible, and was the first thing I thought after the error msg, until I read the man page again) |
| 13:46.10 | H4ndy | ace gave you the answer a few minutes ago |
| 13:46.33 | jim | oh ok |
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| 13:46.53 | jim | I'll check that now, and if there's interest will report back here |
| 13:46.54 | ratrace | just that I never came across to /etc/modules being used to anything other than listing modules to _force_ on boot, and /etc/modprobe.d/... always used for various options, dependency ordering, etc... |
| 13:48.28 | greycat | The error message also indicated that systemd-modules-load is doing a translation of the legacy file into systemd stuff, so who knows what the details are. |
| 13:49.09 | jim | why is systemd involved here? argh. |
| 13:49.14 | greycat | I could see double quotes confusing the translator, but I could also see the translator naively expecting each line to be a module name only, with no args. |
| 13:50.38 | jim | ace on discord, obs server, is saying I need to separate out the parameters into another file in /etc/modprobe.d and then run update-initramfs |
| 13:51.26 | jim | (as I said before, I don't think the module needs to be loaded that early, but I can try that |
| 13:51.37 | ratrace | greycat: looking through the manpages, are you sure systemd is using /etc/modules? apparently it looks into {/etc|/lib|/usr/lib|...}/modules-load.d/ |
| 13:52.26 | greycat | I'm looking primarily at the error message that jim pasted. |
| 13:52.41 | ratrace | oh right |
| 13:52.55 | ratrace | and that module+options is given in /etc/modules ? |
| 13:52.57 | greycat | After that, I'm looking at everything I can find to try to find what's doing the translation and where that thing is documented... not having much luck. |
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| 13:53.46 | ratrace | quick googling suggests it's specific to debian+derivs, so good luck finding out what :) looked into intramfs-tools scripts and hooks, nothing there tho |
| 13:54.18 | greycat | here's a thign |
| 13:54.18 | greycat | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 Apr 27 13:02 /etc/modules-load.d/modules.conf -> ../modules |
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| 13:54.32 | ratrace | ohohohoh, quite right. |
| 13:54.43 | mi11k1 | can somebody tell me if theres a specific kernel or something for running on qemu-kvm? im running buster on Proxmox. |
| 13:54.55 | greycat | mi11k1: *plonk* |
| 13:55.22 | mi11k1 | greycat, ? |
| 13:55.44 | mi11k1 | its just the host hardware thats bagging me |
| 13:55.48 | jim | mi11k1, kernels in debian enable every possible module, so that when you install a kernel package, you get all the modules |
| 13:55.52 | ratrace | well there _is_ kvm-guest optimized kernels in other distros |
| 13:56.09 | mi11k1 | i have qemu-guest-agent installed |
| 13:56.20 | greycat | So... it *looks* like systemd doesn't read /etc/modules directly, but because of the symlink, it reads it indirectly... and because systemd is completely different from the previous program, modules(5) is no longer applicable, and the syntax is not the same. |
| 13:56.54 | mi11k1 | i guess what im asking is what is the cloud image and the RT image for? |
| 13:57.04 | jim | greycat, is there documentation on the thing it reads? |
| 13:57.05 | ratrace | greycat: indeed that'd be the case, and modules-load.d(5) doesn't mention options |
| 13:57.55 | greycat | it would be nice if it would explicitly *say* "you can't put arguments here; put them in ___ instead" |
| 13:58.32 | jim | yep, that would be helpful |
| 13:58.44 | ratrace | it would, but frankly it's not systemd's fault that someone was ln -s happy and linked two _different_ config paradigms together. |
| 13:59.09 | ratrace | if sysv allowed options, and systemd doesn't.... the maintainer who symlinked it, is the one to blame. |
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| 13:59.49 | greycat | That, but also the systemd man page just does not say where to put the arguments. |
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| 14:00.42 | jim | the modules man page of section 5 even lies, it says you can put args, but evidently you cannot |
| 14:01.01 | greycat | That's because that man page is from a completely different program, which is not in use on your system. |
| 14:01.05 | ratrace | because the manpage is not for system'd modules-load.d |
| 14:01.14 | greycat | The only reason that file is being read *at all* is because of the symlink. |
| 14:01.24 | jim | that's not my fault :) |
| 14:01.39 | ratrace | also... the mechanisms here at completely different domains. systemd's is convenience "force load" service. the default is autodetection, and modprobe.d belongs to kmod |
| 14:02.37 | jim | but I see what you're saying, it's not the correct man page in man 5 modules |
| 14:03.31 | jim | ratrace, in my case I don't believe the module would be autoloaded at boot |
| 14:04.36 | ratrace | sure that's why you'd force load them |
| 14:05.01 | ratrace | I use the list to force load modules because I prefer running with the kernel.modules_disabled=1 sysctl and prevent on-demand module loading |
| 14:05.22 | ratrace | but either way, if you want it loaded on boot, that's the default way |
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| 14:07.47 | greycat | So, as near as we can tell from the incomplete documentation here, you should put "v412loopback" in /etc/modules, and put "options v412loopback video_nr=10 card_label=loopback exclusive_caps=1" in /etc/modprobe.d/v412loopback.conf |
| 14:08.40 | ratrace | (the modprobe.d/ filename is arbitrary tho, except it has to be .conf) |
| 14:09.08 | greycat | Correct, but I *strongly* advise using the name of the module plus .conf |
| 14:09.23 | ratrace | sure, it's a good pattern |
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| 14:20.44 | jelly-home | in /etc/sysctl.d/ things without .conf stopped working |
| 14:21.08 | greycat | modprobe.d(5) is very clear that the .conf is needed |
| 14:21.34 | greycat | sysctl.d(5) same |
| 14:25.15 | jim | I split out the module params into /etc/modprobe.d/something.conf, now it works |
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| 14:54.09 | BenderRodriguez | B |
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| 15:31.16 | dob1 | I have a doubt about ssh auth via key: how do you copy the key if pass auth is disable? |
| 15:32.27 | jelly | dob1, disabled for all users or just for root? |
| 15:32.37 | dob1 | jelly, all the users |
| 15:32.38 | jelly | you can just copy/paste the text. |
| 15:33.04 | jelly | log in in whatever way, doesn't have to be ssh |
| 15:33.15 | dob1 | jelly, it is the "whatever way" the problem :) |
| 15:33.26 | jelly | if you have console access you can paste or type it in there |
| 15:33.36 | dob1 | I know the key is written is authorized_keys |
| 15:33.48 | jelly | ssh-ed25519 pub keys are short enough for that to be an option |
| 15:34.12 | jelly | dob1, well how do you gain access to the system _right now_? |
| 15:34.30 | greycat | Generally you don't disable password auth *until* you have set up key auth and verified that it works, so you have a way to get in. |
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| 15:35.03 | dob1 | I disabled because there were a lot of login attempts |
| 15:35.25 | Haohmaru | h4x0rz |
| 15:35.25 | AndreasLutro | dob1: if you use a public cloud provider, they all have a way to inject an SSH public key into the VM as it's being created |
| 15:35.27 | jelly | dob1, and you logged out? |
| 15:35.31 | dob1 | jelly, I got the idea, I was thinking I was missing some point but I know how to do it then |
| 15:36.28 | dob1 | jelly, it's ok, I can login again. I just wanted to be sure how to do it |
| 15:36.58 | jelly | this is why I only try to use remote systems with a secondary way to log in (eg. a console) |
| 15:37.31 | genr8_ | <jelly> welp. Provider says "console will start working after a power cycle of the VM"... and I wanted to use the console to have access to the VM DURING reboot |
| 15:37.52 | dob1 | jelly, my idea is to set password auth whe I am connected via vpn, but only with this subnet. I think I can do it with Match directive |
| 15:38.16 | dob1 | AndreasLutro, like the google one or the amazon one? I just read about them I don't now them a lot |
| 15:38.28 | jelly | genr8_, aye, there's the rub |
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| 15:39.09 | EmptyMessage | dob1: Yeah, I use digital ocean, and it automatically puts my keys in there for me with the click of a button |
| 15:39.36 | dob1 | EmptyMessage, ok but you have a web console for you vps |
| 15:39.45 | EmptyMessage | dob1: yes |
| 15:43.30 | jelly | dob1, if you're connected via vpn you can paste stuff into ~/.ssh/authorized_keys right then |
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| 15:44.15 | jelly | I can't be bothered and just allow all traffic within the vpn |
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| 15:50.27 | dob1 | jelly, got it, thanks |
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| 16:01.43 | EmptyMessage | /msg dpkg guidelines |
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| 16:05.24 | Haohmaru | the guidelines are: Follow the Light |
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| 17:12.58 | Matrox | Hello |
| 17:13.24 | Matrox | how can i download the source for a debian package? dpkg-src? |
| 17:13.45 | Matrox | i got devscripts pbuilder etc, and i want to modify and rebuild a package |
| 17:14.46 | greycat | !source |
| 17:14.46 | dpkg | As an overview: to work with Debian source packages, add a <deb-src> line to your sources list; cd to a location with free space; download the source package with <apt-get source>; retrieve dependencies with <apt-get build-dep>; edit <debian/rules> to taste; use <dpkg-buildpackage> to build the new .deb. For more details, also ask me about <package recompile> <backport> <nmg> <policy> <source package> |
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| 17:19.00 | Matrox | i had followed a debian presentation once or guide to build i3-gaps package for debian (in debian mentorship project etc) but have completely forgot the procedure. mainly because there like 20 alternative tools for each job, debuild, pbuilder, cowbuilder, some devscripts and others |
| 17:19.24 | greycat | welcome to free software |
| 17:19.40 | Matrox | not every distro is like that. more are a bit more organized |
| 17:20.08 | Matrox | yesterday is was searching for like 30 minutes on the debian website, on how to get the netinstaller iso i wanted. that thing is like a maze |
| 17:20.18 | greycat | ok, that's fair; Debian has a much higher herd-of-cats aspect than pretty much any other Linux distribution |
| 17:22.02 | Matrox | well maybe good documentation can help this. athough i was in a debian mentor irc channel, and everyone in there linked me to different guides, and advised me to use different tools. cowbuilder in c, some others in bash/python , some in perl |
| 17:22.21 | Matrox | pbuilder is a good tool though and does what it says |
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| 17:24.34 | ratrace | well frankly other distros don't have 20 alternative tools for each packaging step :) that's really the biggest, hugest, obstacle for fresh blood in Debian |
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| 17:25.31 | ratrace | I've been maintaining and packaging software for FreeBSD and Gentoo for years, and yet when I had to submit a single package to Ubuntu.... I just couldn't get it done because of this. |
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| 17:25.43 | Matrox | what has helped me understand debian workflow, believe or not was a rant from one of debian packagers. the guy that packages i3 |
| 17:26.13 | Matrox | he wanted to showcase the insanity in debian workflow, and in doing so he posted a diagram with all the tools availabe, alternate workflows, languages used in each program etc |
| 17:26.30 | Matrox | so i understood which programs are complementary, which are overlapping and which are contradictory |
| 17:26.50 | ratrace | .deb format is also a nightmare in comparison |
| 17:26.52 | Matrox | since noone told me a clearcut workflow procedure, but various tools |
| 17:27.29 | Matrox | deb format, i think is the hardest format i have seen. |
| 17:27.42 | Matrox | after that i quit complaining about ebuild complexity in gentoo |
| 17:28.06 | ratrace | indeed :) one .ebuild or Ports' Makefile versus a whole directory of various stuffs.... |
| 17:28.49 | ratrace | (even RPM was much easier to understand and build, the few times I had to package something for Fedora) |
| 17:28.56 | Matrox | the documentation isnt that good though. i managed to build my package using another one as a template, using linting tools and others, and some hints from the server auto-test tool that i upload the metapackage |
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| 17:29.02 | Matrox | took me about a week to do so, lol |
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| 17:31.14 | Matrox | even though i dont use archlinux any longer, i can see why it has suddenly increased in popularity, they have the best documentation i have seen in linux (i use gentoo which has still good documentation but often i look stuff up at archwiki) and their aur pkgbuild format that anyone can upload to is the easiest format i have seen. i had built my first source package there. |
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| 17:31.48 | CommunistWolf | s/insanity/richness/ |
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| 17:32.38 | Matrox | well that richness is too complex for new maintainers. at least debian should offer an "official" tooklit and workflow |
| 17:32.53 | Matrox | that decision paralysis doesnt help |
| 17:32.55 | CommunistWolf | sounds like you should propose a policy amendment to make it so |
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| 17:33.47 | Matrox | i am not sure how to do that. also i use debian occasionally now. i mainly use gentoo, at least on system powerful enough to compile things |
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| 17:34.42 | jhutchins | Matrox: Which, having supported Gentoo in the past, is what 99% of your time and resources will be spent on. |
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| 17:36.06 | Matrox | jhutchins, well after i have my system set up, it isnt that time consuming. i just compile things overnight |
| 17:36.30 | Matrox | (i havent created any ebuilds on that yet) |
| 17:37.22 | Matrox | i dont even system upgrade that often also. once a week or less, so not that crazy. |
| 17:38.03 | Matrox | ratrace, here is the blogpost i was talking about: https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2016-11-25-build-tools/ |
| 17:38.21 | ratrace | jhutchins: that's really not the case. it _is_ more involving than Debian, but really not that much more |
| 17:38.23 | Matrox | this has to be an official debian resource, for understanding the workflow |
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| 17:39.29 | ratrace | perfectly splendid mess. |
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| 17:48.33 | Matrox | is there any advantage to using sbuild instead of pbuilder? |
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| 17:48.57 | Matrox | i found only guides for pbuilder online and thats what was suggested to me mostly |
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| 17:58.29 | unixbsd | Hello, is there a modern word-perfect, that runs on debian buster? http://www.linuxgruven.ca/Desktops/WPO2k/ In order to have full compatibility of docx with MS Office docs (own format). |
| 17:59.11 | greycat | Word Perfect and Microsoft Word are very different products. If you want MS Word compat, try libreoffice. |
| 18:00.36 | unixbsd | I have tried libreoffice, but the formatting is totally different, pages not following that MS office gives, at all. |
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| 18:03.23 | sponix2ipfw | unixbsd: www.office.com - login with your Microsoft account ;) |
| 18:03.53 | dirdi_ | unixbsd: onlyoffice has a better support for MS office documents than libreoffice. However, its a webapplication that has not been packaged for Debian AFAIK and installation is rather challenging. |
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| 18:05.33 | Matrox | are google docs (online, they offer an office suite with word, excel, presentation etc) maybe compatible with docx? |
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| 18:07.03 | Matrox | try docs.google.com |
| 18:07.44 | Matrox | its word processor inside the browser, probably compatible with docx. you might have luck exporting that from within google docs to a format that libreoffice can use. |
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| 18:07.56 | sponix2ipfw | did my obvious solution not work out ? |
| 18:08.25 | Matrox | ms office offers online doc editing too? |
| 18:08.38 | sponix2ipfw | Matrox: Yes https://www.office.com |
| 18:08.46 | sponix2ipfw | I wasn't joking |
| 18:08.56 | Matrox | microsoft is free and open source now |
| 18:09.10 | Matrox | already using vs-code |
| 18:09.19 | Matrox | good software |
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| 18:32.51 | maddoc | Hi guys, I'm not sure I'm in the right channel, kinda new to this. If not, please can you tell me what would be the best place? Thanks! Anyway, I'm trying to automate my VPN connection at boot time on my raspberry, my the openvpn client doesn't support anymore passing username and password via the command line. Is there some tool that can watch the |
| 18:32.52 | maddoc | stdout of the openvpn client and do something like "at the first input request pass this and at the second one pass that"? I read something about systemd-tty-ask-password-agent, but I didn't understood that much about how it works! Thanks in advance for any help! |
| 18:34.01 | Brigo | !raspberry |
| 18:34.01 | dpkg | The Raspberry Pi is an open hardware design based on a Broadcom system-on-a-chip, requiring <non-free> <firmware>. Debian's <armel> port works fine, but does not use the Pi's hardware floating point unit. Debian's <armhf> port targets a newer revision of the ARM chip than is in the Pi, so armhf will not work on it. http://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi http://www.raspberrypi.org/ #raspberrypi on irc.freenode.net. |
| 18:34.14 | greycat | Your best choice would be to read the docs for your VPN client and learn how to configure it without going through silly crap like this. But what you literally asked for is called "expect". |
| 18:38.14 | maddoc | Ok, I tried but there seems to be no way, seems to be a recent change and I couldn't find any decent solution. However I'll try digging a little more, maybe updating my client to a newer version. Thanks a lot for the answer! |
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| 18:43.22 | Matrox | is there a way to drop root privilages for Xorg? |
| 18:43.29 | Matrox | it runs as root only it seems. |
| 18:43.39 | unixbsd | maddoc: there is likely a debug option to check the stdout of openvpn where it fails. sometimes it comes from server, because the vpn server is not easy to install for admins. |
| 18:44.10 | unixbsd | tehre is on buster a package xserver-xorg-legacy that gives users more freedom. |
| 18:44.13 | greycat | Matrox: it should run as you, by default, starting with Debian 9. The exception is if you're using a device which requires legacy support, and went out of your way to install the old setuid X wrapper. |
| 18:44.14 | Matrox | i used Xwrapper.config to make it run as a normal user without sudo, but this seems to use suid |
| 18:44.26 | Matrox | and Xorg still runs as root |
| 18:44.32 | greycat | Matrox: what version of Debian is this? |
| 18:45.00 | unixbsd | you can install legacy and you have more freedom then. and also : dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg-legacy |
| 18:46.21 | Matrox | greycat, i just installed debian 10 using non-free netinstaller, and installed ldxe, with firmware-linux (free and non free) and my gpu driver is radeon (with xorg-video-radeon as its userspace component). i havent done any other modification (havent touched xwrapper yet) and in ps -aux | grep Xorg it shows it runs as root, and also lightdm starts as root |
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| 18:46.57 | greycat | Well yeah, of course the Display Manager runs as root before you login. |
| 18:47.29 | Matrox | greycat, alright, still Xorg is using root it seems. anyway to drop privilages? should i use Xwrapper.config? |
| 18:47.44 | greycat | I don't use a Display Manager. I don't know why yours is acting this way. |
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| 18:49.02 | greycat | Hmm, maybe it's just a DM thing. The Deb9 machines at work that run sddm/kde are showing Xorg running as root. |
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| 18:49.21 | greycat | On my machine, I use startx, and Xorg runs as me. |
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| 19:09.44 | n4dir | I'd assume that if display-managers run X as root, then there is a reason why they do it like that. I also think at forums.debian.net there are threads about it. |
| 19:10.01 | n4dir | that -> how to disable |
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| 19:12.12 | greycat | https://github.com/canonical/lightdm/issues/18 |
| 19:12.29 | Frowney | What's the difference between Debian and PureOS? |
| 19:13.56 | greycat | google results are a little scatterbrained on this, but it seems that among the DMs, only GDM supports non-root X at this point |
| 19:14.02 | nkuttler | Frowney: ask the pure os people |
| 19:14.11 | Frowney | nkuttler: mkay |
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| 19:28.10 | another | maddoc: you can put credentials in a file and specify that |
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| 19:30.05 | another | see: --auth-user-pass /file |
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| 19:38.07 | n4dir | Frowney: as gnu.org sees it as a free distro, i would assume it hasn't got contrib and non-free repos, perhaps a libre kernel, but in general doesn't differ that much |
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| 19:46.37 | maddoc | another I tried, but it says: Options error: Unrecognized option or missing or extra parameter(s) in [CMD-LINE]:1: auth-user-pass (2.4.0) |
| 19:47.26 | maddoc | but in the man page the option is valid |
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| 20:00.47 | another | did you pass it a filename? |
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| 20:02.16 | maddoc | sure, I tried in all possible ways, one file, two file, one file with only one line, and so on, but it just seems to not recognize the option. |
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| 20:36.14 | one | Hi. I'm having Link up/Link down problems with my Realtek 8169. I see reports about it going back to 1999. Any advice on the metagame today? I've installed a dkms package for the 8168, but it didn't work. |
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| 21:01.05 | ratrace | well that was quick. whole minute of waiting. |
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| 21:17.17 | Franciman | hi |
| 21:17.21 | alex11 | hi |
| 21:17.38 | Franciman | if there is a failure during dhcp renewal, I will not be able to navigate? |
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| 21:20.43 | unixbsd | by the way, how to format mkfs.ext2 with enabling badblock excluding? |
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| 21:23.54 | unixbsd | let's hope that it works well... "date ; mkfs.ext2 -c /dev/sda2 ; date" |
| 21:28.31 | ratrace | unixbsd: why would you want ext2? |
| 21:28.54 | avu | must be a time traveller |
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| 21:29.52 | unixbsd | because I can run it on openbsd |
| 21:30.01 | ratrace | also, -c does readonly test. ideally you want a proper rw test with multiple passes using `badblocks` |
| 21:30.19 | unixbsd | ah I knew it ! thank you |
| 21:30.34 | unixbsd | so that wouldnt exclude them. What is the command to exclude effectively ? |
| 21:30.55 | ratrace | I don't know about "exclusion". you want driver firmware to detect and reallocate bad sectors |
| 21:31.09 | ratrace | infact, if you DO get any bad sectors, start planning for a disk replacement asap |
| 21:31.34 | unixbsd | I wanna give a try ... maybe there is chance. it is an old WD western usb disk. |
| 21:31.59 | ratrace | then run badblocks with -w . warning, it'll erase all data on the drive |
| 21:32.48 | unixbsd | how do you mean? |
| 21:32.57 | unixbsd | badblocks -w /dev/sda1 ? |
| 21:33.05 | ratrace | which part of "erase all data on the drive" is confusing? |
| 21:33.21 | unixbsd | <PROTECTED> |
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| 21:33.27 | ratrace | oh you're asking "how do I mean" using badblocks.... yes, that way |
| 21:33.50 | ratrace | unixbsd: are you sure it's sda? what's your boot drive? |
| 21:34.06 | unixbsd | it is usb and I do it with a raspberry pi. |
| 21:34.22 | ratrace | so what's your boot/rootfs device? |
| 21:34.37 | unixbsd | my debian buster runs on SD/MMC |
| 21:35.28 | ratrace | so /dev/mmcblk_something_ ? |
| 21:36.17 | unixbsd | yeah |
| 21:36.25 | ratrace | k |
| 21:36.46 | unixbsd | thank you... I hope to see the results. Looking forward if we can still use it. thank you |
| 21:36.52 | Franciman | so ppl, I think my problem with networking is due to dhcp renewal |
| 21:36.56 | Franciman | not sure what happens sar |
| 21:37.03 | ratrace | unixbsd: it'll take a while, so let it do multiple passes with several patterns |
| 21:37.13 | Franciman | probably my router misbehaves somehow |
| 21:37.30 | Franciman | or behaves in a way that makes my driver go nuts |
| 21:37.33 | unixbsd | wow thank you so much ! I will add -p 4 |
| 21:38.29 | ratrace | unixbsd: I meant -w (with -p0, default) will do multiple patterns itself. with -p you just repeat that multiple times altogether. I'm not sure more than once is significantly better |
| 21:38.34 | unixbsd | I added as well "-v" to read a bit what it does (all under TMUX). |
| 21:38.55 | ratrace | Franciman: so what's the actual symptom |
| 21:39.23 | Franciman | network manager thinks I am connected, everything thinks I am connected to internet |
| 21:39.32 | Franciman | but the network fails |
| 21:39.40 | Franciman | (the router knows I am not connected) |
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| 21:39.57 | Franciman | I can't even ping gnu.org, 192.168.1.1 (my gateway) and 8.8.8.8 |
| 21:41.09 | Franciman | it happens once a day, mostly the night around 9:30 pm, and it seems to me that it's after a dhcp renewal event. So now I'm trying with a static ip address |
| 21:41.15 | ratrace | Franciman: well, if dhcp lease is the cause then that's on the router side. if your network stack holds an IP, it _should_ work even with lease expired, unless the router cuts off routing on its end for that ip |
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| 21:41.47 | ratrace | (in which case you wouldn't be able to use static IP in a dhcp-only network) |
| 21:41.52 | Franciman | ratrace, the strange thing is that everything worked fine on the ubuntu-oem I had |
| 21:42.41 | ratrace | you really need to look at the logs at the time you lose connectivity, but "everything thinks [you're] connected" |
| 21:42.43 | Franciman | so a component of the problem must be on the pc (and in fact, no other device is affected, except for this one) |
| 21:43.18 | Franciman | ratrace, there is NO log at that moment, man, it usually starts with a dhcp renewal, and nothing happens later |
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| 21:43.39 | Franciman | let me paste it |
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| 21:44.06 | unixbsd | to paste there is : cat file.txt | netcat termbin.com 9999 |
| 21:44.32 | greycat | so many uselessly used cats |
| 21:44.41 | ratrace | cat abuse! |
| 21:45.01 | unixbsd | might be... poor animals ;) |
| 21:45.50 | unixbsd | what would be lighter command then? |
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| 21:46.27 | ratrace | nah that's okay (xcept it's `nc` and not `netcat` |
| 21:46.29 | ratrace | ) |
| 21:46.57 | unixbsd | On bsd I use nc. But sometimes on linux nc doesnt work, so netcat is univ workaround. |
| 21:47.14 | ratrace | wh.... wha? |
| 21:47.58 | Franciman | ratrace, https://termbin.com/g406 |
| 21:48.18 | unixbsd | maybe on ubuntu... I guess. strange system this ubuntu. never anythg work on ubuntu. Not even "less" or "vi" is on it. |
| 21:48.19 | greycat | unixbsd: netcat termbin.com 9999 < file.txt |
| 21:48.21 | Franciman | I noticed the network went down, because irc disconnected around 21:50 |
| 21:48.31 | Franciman | then I ran nmtui networking off |
| 21:48.46 | unixbsd | it is lighter, nice. "netcat termbin.com 9999 < file.txt" |
| 21:48.47 | Franciman | around 22:02 |
| 21:48.54 | ratrace | Franciman: so it's wifi? wlp2s0? |
| 21:48.58 | Franciman | yes |
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| 21:49.38 | unixbsd | may I ask you, will debian remove libx11-dev and replace the X11 by Wayland, like other linux? |
| 21:49.51 | ratrace | Franciman: looks like a problem in the driver |
| 21:50.07 | Franciman | uff :< |
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| 21:50.24 | Franciman | I also tried with debian sid, but the problem persists |
| 21:50.25 | ratrace | unixbsd: not for a long time |
| 21:50.33 | ratrace | (and other linuxes won't either) |
| 21:50.39 | ratrace | Franciman: missing firmware? |
| 21:50.42 | Franciman | but I don't really understand why in ubuntu it didn't happen |
| 21:50.45 | Franciman | No i have the firmware |
| 21:51.12 | ratrace | ubuntu does a lot of custom patching for hardware enablement. that code is sometimes not available anywhere else |
| 21:51.58 | Franciman | one thing I can say is that, during that period of time in which everything believes I'm connected to wifi, but network doesn't work, wavemon does a strange thing |
| 21:52.14 | Franciman | the RX field of the statistics is STABLE, is constant, whilst normally it fluctuates quite a bit |
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| 21:55.19 | Franciman | I will try with the static ip, if the network doesn't fail, i'll take it as a strong signal that the problem is during dhcp lease |
| 21:55.54 | ratrace | nothing to do with dhcp. you have a kernel strace from lower in the OSI stack |
| 21:56.14 | Franciman | at what time? |
| 21:56.30 | ratrace | the kernel throws an exception from inside the max80211 module... that's way below dhcp |
| 21:56.52 | ratrace | Franciman: the bigger part of your paste is. starts at 22:04:36 |
| 21:57.16 | unixbsd | cool, luckily, we may miss libx11-dev ;) |
| 21:57.20 | unixbsd | I need evilwm |
| 21:57.37 | Franciman | I'll admit I'm not extremely knowledgeable, so sorry for silly questions, ratrace: that's the time where I forced the network to shut down |
| 21:57.52 | ratrace | Franciman: dunno what you did, but kernel had an oops there |
| 21:57.55 | Franciman | so that strace is where the driver was at, when I stopped it? |
| 21:58.26 | warsoul | i need a small business software like quickbooks or something better to use it on linux debian10 |
| 21:58.28 | Franciman | let me try to stop network now, I think it happens as well |
| 21:58.32 | ratrace | Franciman: where the kernel had an exception, yes |
| 21:58.41 | Franciman | brb |
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| 22:06.57 | Franciman | ratrace, so do you have any suggestion about how to proceed? |
| 22:10.07 | ratrace | Franciman: about what exactly... there's no mention of dhcp lease expiration in your paste and you have a kernel oops indicating driver issue |
| 22:10.15 | Franciman | yes |
| 22:10.22 | Franciman | about what I could do |
| 22:10.35 | Franciman | I tried the latest drivers possible, in debian sid, and there is still this issue |
| 22:10.42 | Franciman | so I guess debian can't be on this system |
| 22:10.46 | Franciman | :( |
| 22:10.56 | ratrace | Franciman: check ubuntu changelogs if they do anything specific with regards to the driver or firmware for your wifi |
| 22:11.19 | ratrace | then see if it's something you can port, or file a bug report for the debian kernel team to port (I heart they do that in some cases). |
| 22:11.58 | Franciman | ok thanks a lot |
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| 22:12.45 | ratrace | Franciman: btw you also have a segfault in libQt5Core.so I have no idea if it's related or not |
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| 22:13.15 | Franciman | no I think it may be another sympthom, but no the cause |
| 22:13.20 | Franciman | symptom* |
| 22:13.25 | ratrace | sure it's not the cause |
| 22:13.43 | jhutchins | Franciman: Ubuntu probably had a different version of the kernel (and drivers), compiled with diffrent options. |
| 22:14.05 | jhutchins | Franciman: Did you say what release you're running now? |
| 22:14.17 | Franciman | of debian? |
| 22:14.27 | Franciman | 10.6 |
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| 22:15.37 | jhutchins | ,kernels |
| 22:15.38 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.9.0-rc8-686-pae (5.9~rc8-1~exp1); sid: 5.8.0-3-686-pae (5.8.14-1); bullseye: 5.8.0-2-686-pae (5.8.10-1); buster-backports: 5.8.0-0.bpo.2-686 (5.8.10-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-11-686-pae (4.19.146-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.11-686 (4.19.146-1~deb9u1); jessie- |
| 22:15.39 | judd | backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1) |
| 22:16.10 | Franciman | I tried with both buster-backports and buster kernels |
| 22:16.20 | sney | ubuntu is also known for patching the kernel with out-of-tree vendor drivers, which debian doesn't do. see my conversation with ben in #933302 |
| 22:16.22 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/933302 in src:linux (open): «firmware-realtek: RTL8723DE not working»; severity: important; opened: 2019-07-28; last modified: 2020-04-15. |
| 22:16.23 | ratrace | Franciman: you also said you tried sid |
| 22:16.29 | Franciman | oh yes |
| 22:17.00 | Franciman | I tried these three: buster (firmware-atheros + kernel) buster-backports (firmware-atheros + kernel) sid (firmware-atheros + kernel) |
| 22:17.09 | Franciman | the problem persists in all the three |
| 22:17.32 | jhutchins | Franciman: One thing to consider is that some realtek implementations are realcrap. |
| 22:17.33 | unixbsd | you need to have a good kernel for atheros |
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| 22:17.43 | unixbsd | likely the last kernel will support them better. |
| 22:17.54 | unixbsd | vanilla kernel is always recommended |
| 22:18.33 | jhutchins | Oh, atheros, I thought you said realtek. |
| 22:18.57 | Franciman | nono, it's ath10k |
| 22:19.00 | Franciman | ath10k_pci |
| 22:19.18 | jhutchins | !atheros |
| 22:19.18 | dpkg | Qualcomm Atheros is a developer of semiconductors. For support of PCI/PCIe wireless LAN devices with an Atheros chipset, ask me about <ath9k>, <ath5k>. For USB wireless LAN device support, ask me about <ath9k_htc>, <carl9170>, <ar5523>. For Ethernet driver information, see <atl1c>, <alx>, <atl2>, <atl1e>, <atl1>. For Bluetooth device support, see <ath3k>. http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/Atheros |
| 22:19.27 | sney | Franciman: still no luck, eh? |
| 22:20.05 | Franciman | unfortunately, no, sney |
| 22:20.14 | unixbsd | atheros, made in China. the atheros are not so well supported as realtek. with realtek it is easier. |
| 22:20.48 | sney | stuff that's made in china is automatically bad? welp, I better throw out my whole computer |
| 22:21.04 | Franciman | well last thing I can try meanwhile I find the issue is with the static ip address |
| 22:21.24 | unixbsd | poor hardware quality... sometimes or often. |
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| 22:21.40 | Franciman | I paid this pc 1600 euro :P |
| 22:21.56 | Franciman | I should have bought a macbook pro |
| 22:21.59 | unixbsd | wow. |
| 22:22.14 | ratrace | atheros used to be (the most) well supported wifi chipset in linux. did that change? |
| 22:22.27 | sney | ratrace: yep, they got bought out and their driver policy changed |
| 22:22.40 | ratrace | bummer |
| 22:22.44 | sney | ath9k is probably still the best example of a wifi driver that linux will ever see |
| 22:23.17 | unixbsd | I try to avoid tplink and atheros if possible. I usually use realtek, so that I can use netbsd in multiboot with linux |
| 22:24.35 | sney | tplink doesn't make controllers. they typically use realtek though sometimes there are ralink models too. I just stick with intel, but I'm aware intel is priced out of some users' range, particularly in some regions |
| 22:25.28 | Franciman | in fact the newer version of my pc (dell xps 13) uses an intel wifi chip |
| 22:26.19 | sney | yep, if you had iwlwifi, getting it to work would have taken about 1 minute |
| 22:27.27 | sney | if you get the dell part number for that iwlwifi nic you may be able to order it online and switch them, then just ebay the atheros |
| 22:27.52 | Franciman | I can't, it's hardwired |
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| 22:47.03 | Franciman | thanks a lot for your help, ppl |
| 22:47.07 | Franciman | leaving for the night, bye |
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| 22:54.27 | dgood`_ | Anyone ever seen this QEMU message? |
| 22:54.29 | dgood`_ | qemu-system-x86_64: symbol lookup error: qemu-system-x86_64: undefined symbol: libusb_free_ss_endpoint_companion_descriptor |
| 22:55.21 | dgood`_ | Or how one might try to resolve the fact that QEMU was working and now won't even start. |
| 22:55.23 | ratrace | nope. are you building some software yourself, or mixing repos? |
| 22:55.38 | dgood`_ | Not that I know of. I'm not building software. |
| 22:55.50 | dgood`_ | This is just on Debian 10. |
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| 22:56.41 | dgood`_ | I do have backports enabled, but have very few packages installed from it and none that look to have anything to do with qemu or usb. |
| 22:57.59 | dgood`_ | It was working find for years until today when I rebooted the machine due to a samba password update. |
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| 22:59.31 | dgood`_ | I have no idea what I'm going to do... Reinstalling is a very unattractive solution, but is on the table. This is my main work machine and I'm dead in the water without the ability to run VMs. |
| 23:01.14 | sney | qemu had a security update in july, if it has been resident in memory since before then, this might be your first time using the updated binary |
| 23:01.41 | dgood`_ | That's what I'm thinking. It's probably been that long since I rebooted. |
| 23:02.20 | sney | and indeed there's a usb patch mentioned in the changelog https://tracker.debian.org/media/packages/q/qemu/changelog-13.1dfsg-8deb10u8 |
| 23:02.45 | H-var | hi, I installed debian 10 release on a laptop, but the touchpad does not work at all. What do I need to install to make the touchpad work? |
| 23:03.13 | H-var | I installed the "firmware-debian-10.6.0-netinst" version iso |
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| 23:04.13 | unixbsd | what is the " uname -a " version of the kernel? |
| 23:04.20 | unixbsd | dmesg would be helpful as well. |
| 23:04.46 | H-var | it's 4.19 |
| 23:05.01 | H-var | amd64 |
| 23:06.34 | unixbsd | that's such a old kernel |
| 23:09.09 | unixbsd | you could tryy to post your dmesg ; e.g.: dmesg > file.txt ; less file.txt ; cat file.txt | netcat termbin.com 9999 (check or modify if necessary). |
| 23:10.24 | sney | kernel age shouldn't matter unless the hardware is also very new. a trackpad is usually a generic hid. I'd check first to see if it's disabled in the efi, and also look at the X log under libinput entries to see if it's detected |
| 23:10.37 | sney | !uuoc |
| 23:10.37 | dpkg | UUOC is the Useless Use of Cat Award. Given out for years by Randal Schwartz on the newsgroup comp.unix.shell. Basically, most constructions that look like "cat filename | grep pattern" can be more easily written as "grep pattern filename". Works for grep and most other Unix utilities. Easier to type and marginally more efficient. |
| 23:10.49 | sney | you can dmesg | nc termbin 9999 |
| 23:12.46 | unixbsd | termin.com |
| 23:12.58 | unixbsd | termbin.com |
| 23:13.03 | sney | yes, that |
| 23:13.45 | unixbsd | xinput allows to enable and disable in X |
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| 23:17.37 | H-var | thank you |
| 23:17.53 | unixbsd | For instance: echo asus ; xinput set-prop 'Elan Touchpad' 'Device Enabled' 1 |
| 23:18.02 | H-var | idk - I downloaded the latest debian buster stable |
| 23:18.06 | unixbsd | or another exr: echo acer ; xinput set-prop 'ELAN0501:00 04F3:300B Touchpad' 'Device Enabled' 1 |
| 23:18.22 | H-var | why it's old I don't know why it's like that. It's debian 10.6.0 |
| 23:19.10 | unixbsd | www.kernel.org is about to reach 6. mainline: 5.9 2020-10-11 [tarball] [pgp] [patch] |
| 23:19.27 | dvs | unixbsd: not necessarily. it could go 5.10 |
| 23:19.54 | H-var | should I update? How do I update kernel, and everything with it? |
| 23:20.01 | H-var | it's a fresh install anyway, so no sweat |
| 23:20.04 | sney | H-var: 4.19 is the standard debian buster kernel. one of the side effects of a stable OS is that some stuff is "old." again it doesn't matter unless the hardware is also new, and you should really be looking at logs first |
| 23:20.51 | H-var | oh, okay, I thought it's serious, but he was just kidding :D |
| 23:20.55 | H-var | thanks sney |
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| 23:21.21 | unixbsd | Still, you grab from ubuntu the newest kernel. You need grub2, initrd, vmlinuz and /lib/modules/5.xxx from it and inject on same arch into your buster debian. |
| 23:21.45 | sney | unixbsd: if you want to recommend mixing OSes, please don't do it in #debian |
| 23:21.51 | H-var | thanks unixbsd I have just installed xinput |
| 23:22.07 | H-var | it sees "Virtual core XTEST pointer and my usb mouse |
| 23:23.31 | H-var | virtual core pointer (Master) > and then two slaves (described above) |
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| 23:25.09 | H-var | btw love xfce - so much better than kde for sure. I already regret going with kde (it was just a nostalgic choice, more than rational lol) |
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| 23:25.36 | unixbsd | sney: ok, we stick to classic debian approach. |
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| 23:25.52 | H-var | I'm now literally installing linux on all my friends' computers lol whenever I visit them haha |
| 23:25.57 | unixbsd | xfce is way lighter and still an efficient desktop. |
| 23:26.23 | unixbsd | if you instlal usbmount, your usb sticks will be auto mounted on it. likely already there up. |
| 23:26.25 | H-var | already installed on my brother's computer, and on my two friends' computers haha |
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| 23:26.39 | unixbsd | keep going and spreading the linux |
| 23:26.47 | H-var | lol the classic way |
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| 23:27.36 | unixbsd | the best is that notebooks are sold with freedos or ubuntu. it becomes than easy to install linux on it. |
| 23:28.05 | unixbsd | Good night and have fun |
| 23:28.07 | H-var | efi laptops are the worst |
| 23:28.34 | unixbsd | we should not buy efi windows stuffs. it should be forbidden ;) |
| 23:29.12 | H-var | i just rewrite the hdd table as MBR, and it works |
| 23:29.31 | H-var | I read that you supposed to like tell debian to mount the efi disk into /boot/efi and stuff |
| 23:29.40 | H-var | sounds like pain right there already |
| 23:31.22 | H-var | most laptops come with <2tb space anyway, so best and fastest choice is to make it MBR instead of GPT, but some people say that there also laptops which do not support booting from mbr anymore, only GPT efi (no CSM) support. That's real RIP |
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| 23:34.35 | another | GPT != EFI |
| 23:35.07 | ectospasm | GPT is part of the EFI standard. |
| 23:35.16 | H-var | sney it's not disabled in the efi - there's no efi anymore. I converted to mbr. |
| 23:35.39 | sney | H-var: I'm sure there is still some kind of hardware setup thing that you can access when turning on the system |
| 23:35.43 | H-var | when I go to the "mouse and touchpad" settings, debian only shows the optical mouse in the list of available devices |
| 23:36.31 | sney | when I say "maybe it was disabled in the efi" I mean efi or bios or openfirmware or whatever. idgaf what yours is called, just go look. |
| 23:37.38 | another | GPT has various advantages over DOS partitioning |
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| 23:37.58 | another | it can bue used independently from EFI |
| 23:38.09 | another | (at least with Linux) |
| 23:38.11 | H-var | I was using it in windows before deleting it from the pc, so it's functional, and I didn't touch bios - it's typical "nothing to see here" bios with like one option - to change the clock :D |
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| 23:46.27 | ectospasm | H-var: there's got to be a configuration section. And not all UEFI BIOSes have sane menus. My ThinkPad has the CPU Virtualization option under Security, not Configuration. YMMV. |
| 23:46.55 | ectospasm | It may be in CSM/BIOS mode by default. |
| 23:47.06 | ectospasm | If it is indeed a UEFI BIOS. |
| 23:47.56 | H-var | yeah, luckily mine has it |
| 23:48.05 | H-var | how can I make trackpad just work in debian? |
| 23:48.10 | H-var | what do I need to install? |
| 23:48.34 | ectospasm | Depends on what driver you need for the trackpad. |
| 23:48.51 | ectospasm | And if the laptop is really new, Debian might not have support for it. |
| 23:49.17 | ectospasm | lsusb should at least show the trackpad. |
| 23:50.26 | H-var | no, it's actually really old, like 2009 |
| 23:50.51 | H-var | it's fujitsu A514 |
| 23:51.29 | H-var | I'll post dmesg |
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| 23:56.17 | H-var | paste.debian.net/1166896/ |
| 23:57.25 | H-var | paste.debian.net/1166897/ |
| 23:57.57 | H-var | can you help me install drivers necessary for this laptop? |