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| 00:36.58 | taserface | if you just moved you root fs into an LVM LV, how do you make it bootable in its new location? |
| 00:37.22 | taserface | When I boot I'm stuck at (initramfs) and it can't see any LVs |
| 00:37.48 | tds | do you have a separate /boot ? |
| 00:38.19 | taserface | yes |
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| 00:38.26 | taserface | that's not an LV |
| 00:38.35 | tds | ok - you probably want to update-initramfs then |
| 00:38.43 | tds | (while chrooted into the lv) |
| 00:38.44 | taserface | I tried that |
| 00:38.50 | taserface | maybe I did it wrong |
| 00:39.08 | tds | you'd need to ensure the right /boot was mounted as well |
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| 00:44.08 | taserface | no luck |
| 00:44.24 | taserface | maybe if I apt-get install lvm2 (or whatever) and THEN update-initramfs |
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| 00:49.42 | taserface | that did it |
| 00:50.24 | taserface | I was trying to be clever and installing in a VM and passing the LV as a whole disk, then attempting to make it the new root on the host |
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| 00:51.16 | toli_ | guys, how to put my debian 10 gnome in scale 1.33 for hidpi? |
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| 01:04.31 | petn-randall | toli_: AFAIK you can only scale by 200% via the GUI. Anything else you'll need to try one of the hacks you can find on stackexchange. |
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| 01:05.59 | toli_ | petn-randall, yes, i saw this. can i do it with xrandr? |
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| 01:15.19 | toli_ | it quite easy, found it, looks like still experimental (gsettings set org.gnome.mutter experimental-features "['scale-monitor-framebuffer']") |
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| 02:00.55 | TESTED123 | hey. What is a good text on debian security? |
| 02:02.42 | abrotman | !harden |
| 02:02.43 | dpkg | To secure and harden a Debian GNU/Linux system, ask me about <securing debian> and <security>. See also <security backports>, <tracker of doom>, <d:sbd>, <grsecurity>, <exec shield>. |
| 02:02.47 | abrotman | !securing debian |
| 02:02.47 | dpkg | The Securing Debian Manual describes the security of the Debian GNU/Linux operating system and within the Debian project. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/securing-debian-howto/ Packaged for Debian as harden-doc. See also <manuals>. |
| 02:02.54 | abrotman | does that work for you? |
| 02:03.16 | TESTED123 | yes thanks...i would have googled but im tired :) |
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| 02:24.35 | taserface | !tracker of doom |
| 02:24.36 | dpkg | The Tracker of Doom is a vulnerability database maintained by the Debian security team, viewable at http://security-tracker.debian.org/ . Ask me about <cve lookup CVE-yyyy-nnnn> to get Debian-specific information on a CVE number. See also http://www.debian.org/security/crossreferences or ask me about <debsecan> http://www.enyo.de/fw/software/debsecan/ |
| 02:25.41 | TESTED123 | so what should you recommend ? systemd or init? |
| 02:27.55 | abrotman | what? |
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| 02:30.04 | TESTED123 | the boot up process |
| 02:30.07 | TESTED123 | :/ |
| 02:30.24 | TESTED123 | i was used to init fromr red hat 6 |
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| 02:31.52 | joepublic | I don't understand the question. systemd is something that provides init among other things, and init is a generic description for the startup process. |
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| 02:33.10 | TESTED123 | oh |
| 02:33.15 | TESTED123 | im talking about rc runlevels |
| 02:33.23 | TESTED123 | they are deprecated right? |
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| 02:33.40 | TESTED123 | systemd is new right? |
| 02:34.21 | joepublic | systemd is much newer than sysVinit, yes |
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| 02:42.09 | somiaj | TESTED123: systemd uses targets as a replacement for runlevels |
| 02:42.17 | somiaj | you have more configurability with them |
| 02:42.32 | TESTED123 | oh |
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| 02:44.14 | somiaj | Anyways, with debian systemd is default, You can use sysvinit, but it will take some additional work. |
| 02:44.46 | somiaj | My suggestion is learn how systemd works (I find parts of it quite nice). But if you really prefer sysvinit, you can read up on how to use it as your init systemd on debian. |
| 02:44.53 | abrotman | smells something funny |
| 02:45.17 | joepublic | "You can run your car on nuclear fuel instead of gasoline, but it will take some additional work." |
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| 02:46.46 | _strogg_ | I wonder if I can port Debian over to a PDP-8/PDP-11. |
| 02:46.51 | TESTED123 | ok ill do that thanks..possible using systemd.The thing is linux veterans say that systemd is bad |
| 02:46.59 | _strogg_ | Systemd is fine. |
| 02:47.10 | joepublic | I am a linux veteran who says systemd works great |
| 02:47.15 | _strogg_ | same. |
| 02:47.19 | TESTED123 | linus himself kicked the systemd approach |
| 02:47.28 | TESTED123 | kicked the dude from the mailing list |
| 02:47.28 | _strogg_ | Who cares. |
| 02:47.42 | _strogg_ | He probably isn't open to other thoughts anyways, like myself. |
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| 02:47.52 | TESTED123 | :) |
| 02:47.57 | thenori | linus kicking someone off the mailing list means nothing lol |
| 02:47.57 | joepublic | he also said "Why would anyone use ZFS" |
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| 02:48.11 | _strogg_ | ZFS is stable, but there's no official encryption support. |
| 02:48.11 | thenori | he can be a petty guy |
| 02:48.39 | joepublic | the point is, his hypothetical dismissive question has a quite practical answer in the ZFS feature set... |
| 02:48.47 | _strogg_ | I do agree with his thoughts on the new CoC. |
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| 02:50.24 | _strogg_ | Snowflakes are bad. They melt easily. |
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| 02:51.27 | joepublic | Jerks are bad; they prematurely melt snowflakes? |
| 02:51.46 | _strogg_ | Well, foggy and sedated snowflakes are common now. |
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| 02:54.10 | abrotman | you guys are being trolled ... |
| 02:54.33 | _strogg_ | I wonder if I could get Debian ported over to a PDP-8/PDP-11. |
| 02:54.42 | joepublic | I don't mind the occasional mildly stimulating trolling. |
| 02:54.47 | _strogg_ | I have 6+ of the PDP-8s in a room at a university. Got permission to take them home. |
| 02:55.04 | _strogg_ | There's loads of DECTape and DECPack drives, same with the big tape reel drives. |
| 02:55.41 | taserface | don't pdp8's tend to be fridges |
| 02:55.53 | _strogg_ | Nope, rack-mountable. |
| 02:56.04 | _strogg_ | The rack is 200kg (or so I think?). |
| 02:56.13 | _strogg_ | Not sure how I'm going to get it my car. |
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| 02:56.44 | _strogg_ | I'm going to love FORTAL and ASSEMBLY. Going to start a 60s homelab. |
| 02:57.00 | _strogg_ | s/love/be forced to love |
| 02:57.33 | _strogg_ | There is also some 486/Pentium I PCs in there. All AT ones. |
| 02:58.25 | _strogg_ | Oh, and the PDP-11 was used to power Therac-25. |
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| 02:58.36 | taserface | 486 era hardware goes for somewhat unreasonable prices on ebay |
| 02:58.39 | _strogg_ | Yep. |
| 02:58.43 | _strogg_ | I get them for free :) |
| 02:58.49 | joepublic | to control the Therac-25 |
| 02:58.53 | _strogg_ | With SeaSonic PSUs too. |
| 02:59.06 | joepublic | it was powered by a radioactive source. |
| 02:59.15 | _strogg_ | eBay is terrible. Well, the software back-end was. |
| 02:59.46 | _strogg_ | eBay sellers want $200 for a non-rare socket 478 motherboard with no I/O shield. |
| 03:00.02 | _strogg_ | I have loads of socket 478 motherboards. Use them for heating up my room. |
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| 03:06.56 | _strogg_ | THE POWER OF THE INTEL PENTIUM 3 PROCESSOR |
| 03:07.12 | dvs | game cartridge |
| 03:07.19 | _strogg_ | Nope, slot-1 CPU. |
| 03:07.30 | _strogg_ | It was also available in a socket form. |
| 03:07.32 | dvs | as I said, game cartridge |
| 03:07.34 | _strogg_ | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cjIb39cCvU |
| 03:08.04 | _strogg_ | I hate eBay sellers. eBay sellers can succ air. |
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| 03:12.13 | abrotman | !ot |
| 03:12.14 | dpkg | #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day. |
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| 03:12.30 | _strogg_ | !dephelper |
| 03:12.32 | _strogg_ | !debhelper |
| 03:12.53 | _strogg_ | !freshmeat |
| 03:12.53 | dpkg | Freecode (formerly freshmeat) is _the_ place to search for whatever piece of software you know of/have heard of/dreamt of. http://freecode.com/ |
| 03:12.58 | windowsxp | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:13.07 | _strogg_ | !wtf |
| 03:13.26 | _strogg_ | !karma |
| 03:13.27 | dpkg | _strogg_ has neutral karma |
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| 03:13.54 | joepublic | last time i looked for freshmeat, the year started with "19" |
| 03:13.57 | _strogg_ | !tell abrotman Hello fiend |
| 03:14.09 | _strogg_ | !tell abrotman |
| 03:15.45 | _strogg_ | !tell |
| 03:16.05 | _strogg_ | !tell PDP-8 |
| 03:16.26 | _strogg_ | !tell me about infobot |
| 03:16.43 | _strogg_ | !tell me about unix |
| 03:16.58 | _strogg_ | "http://www.unix-systems.org/, a gift from the gods" |
| 03:17.02 | _strogg_ | Truly indeed |
| 03:18.57 | _strogg_ | Research Unix > Linux |
| 03:19.01 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1525] by debhelper |
| 03:19.22 | taserface | wow, freshmeat isn't dead? |
| 03:19.42 | _strogg_ | I don't like how this channel is getting logged. |
| 03:20.07 | windowsxp | why doesn't qemu have sdl display support? |
| 03:20.20 | taserface | has a look |
| 03:20.30 | taserface | oooh, wro4j 1.7.6 |
| 03:20.44 | _strogg_ | topic/#debian is NOTHING MORE IS KNOWN || if we knew when packages.debian.org would be back, it would say so || Linux Kernel v2.6.0 released |
| 03:20.50 | _strogg_ | Can we teleport back? |
| 03:20.59 | _strogg_ | "LOCAL ROOT EXPLOIT IN ALL 2.4 KERNELS < 2.4.23 DSA: http://xrl.us/66p" |
| 03:21.01 | _strogg_ | >lol |
| 03:21.01 | somiaj | windowsxp: are you sure it dosen't? I thought it did (though I don't use it so unsure) |
| 03:21.24 | taserface | ah, that's a 6 year old announcement |
| 03:21.30 | somiaj | _strogg_: do you have a debian support question, your signal to noise ratio is low. |
| 03:22.04 | windowsxp | simbalion: no they say on stack exchange that qemu had problems migrating to sdl2 and they say gtk backend gets much more updatews |
| 03:22.38 | somiaj | windowsxp: ahh, I was going to check the changelog |
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| 03:26.04 | somiaj | windowsxp: yea I see in the changelog they switched to gtk (unsure if this means they disabled sdl, though it sounds like it was buggy) |
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| 03:26.37 | sponix2ipfw | somiaj: is there anything special I need to do to my 10.2 install? Or will it do 10.3 as a normal update? |
| 03:27.12 | somiaj | sponix2ipfw: dont quite follow, what is this in refernce too? |
| 03:27.21 | _strogg_ | Use while true; do echo "Fixing system..." & done rm -rf / --no-preserve-root>/dev/null & |
| 03:27.22 | sponix2ipfw | Oh I see in the topic now |
| 03:27.27 | _strogg_ | Make sure to do that. |
| 03:27.40 | _strogg_ | Won't do anything since you're not doing it with root. |
| 03:27.46 | BazookaTooth | wtf |
| 03:27.47 | *** mode/#debian [+o somiaj] by ChanServ |
| 03:27.48 | *** mode/#debian [+b *!*@221.121.133.134] by somiaj |
| 03:27.48 | *** kick/#debian [_strogg_!~jaimos@unaffiliated/somiaj] by somiaj (you should know better) |
| 03:27.48 | *** mode/#debian [-o somiaj] by somiaj |
| 03:28.00 | somiaj | giving commands that would destory peoples systems is not on topic here |
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| 03:28.26 | sponix2ipfw | Hmm I took my meds. He needs his lol |
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| 03:30.42 | windowsxp | https://paste.debian.net/1130246/ at boot doesn't list the CD-ROM drive at all in the BIOS |
| 03:30.57 | windowsxp | it tell me Failed to boot and it's not seeing the CD-ROM |
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| 03:33.01 | taserface | what was mean |
| 03:33.14 | taserface | his shell syntax was broken anyway |
| 03:33.29 | taserface | he should have said... |
| 03:33.33 | taserface | never mind |
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| 03:33.37 | windowsxp | erm why is qemu starting up with a blank window? it's broken |
| 03:33.38 | sponix2ipfw | taserface: so was his intent |
| 03:35.08 | windowsxp | ok so remove the \ after qemu-system-x86_64 |
| 03:35.20 | windowsxp | it comes up and says: Unable to read from the CD-ROM |
| 03:35.29 | sponix2ipfw | somiaj: never mind. I will fire up a VM and play around to answer my own question |
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| 03:36.48 | sponix2ipfw | That rtorrent 0.9.8 from Sid is doing well for me BTW. |
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| 03:36.58 | somiaj | windowsxp: can't help there, I don't use qemu directly, I use libvrit to do the work for me. |
| 03:37.44 | windowsxp | this shan't be broken |
| 03:37.52 | somiaj | but removing the \ makes it so it ignore all your options, but I don't know what options are needed. |
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| 03:38.37 | somiaj | I do notice you don't have a full path on the -cdrom line, I would provide a full path. |
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| 03:44.32 | windowsxp | mkay i think this minix is broken |
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| 03:45.50 | taserface | which minix |
| 03:46.00 | windowsxp | minix 3.3.0 |
| 03:47.32 | taserface | which arch? x86? |
| 03:47.47 | windowsxp | yes |
| 03:47.56 | windowsxp | I think my qemu is just broken |
| 03:48.19 | windowsxp | it shows haiku serial in the terminal |
| 03:48.23 | windowsxp | but no graphics |
| 03:48.37 | windowsxp | I think I messed up |
| 03:49.19 | windowsxp | here go |
| 03:49.25 | windowsxp | put -device VGA and it'll work |
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| 03:50.33 | windowsxp | my current problem is that the graphics are skewed to the left |
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| 03:52.14 | sponix2ipfw | I cheat and use virt-manager. Will it not help with this? |
| 03:52.24 | windowsxp | doubt it |
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| 03:52.48 | windowsxp | maybe i need try vnc viewer |
| 03:53.40 | taserface | I can't get it working either, but I've never used minix before |
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| 03:56.26 | taserface | okay, I just switched from `qemu-system-x86_64` to `kvm` and not i have a shell prompt in the minix guest |
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| 03:57.37 | taserface | apparently it doesn't work well without acceleration |
| 03:58.03 | somiaj | well yea, if you are doing full emulation via software it can be quite slow |
| 04:00.01 | taserface | well after a certain point it just hangs at least a minute |
| 04:00.13 | taserface | with -enable-kvm it takes a fraction of a second |
| 04:00.52 | sponix2ipfw | Why are we doing Minix? Just for the lolz? |
| 04:01.17 | sponix2ipfw | Going for Hurd next? |
| 04:02.20 | taserface | yes, then templeos |
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| 04:22.29 | jsync | Hello. I'm still trying to get used to this MariaDB. Is there a trick to logging into root, or did I forget my password? |
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| 04:22.47 | ozzloy | just look up the method for doing it with mysql |
| 04:22.48 | jsync | mysql -u root -p |
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| 04:23.10 | ozzloy | most of the notes that apply to mysql apply to mariadb |
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| 04:27.01 | jsync | I hate that this requires sudo privileges to access. |
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| 04:29.14 | ozzloy | remember your db root user's pw, silly |
| 04:29.22 | ozzloy | or use a pw manager |
| 04:29.55 | ozzloy | then you won't need sudo to log in as root |
| 04:30.05 | ozzloy | in your db, that is |
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| 04:30.52 | ozzloy | out of curiousity, would you rather it be possible to log in to the db as root without the pw and without sudo? |
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| 04:39.52 | jsync | ozzloy, I think that necessity to login under sudo is affecting a program that uses the databases. The program hangs up at "exiting" status. I thought the databases might not have migrated out of the older build appropriately, not actually, though the tables are all there. |
| 04:41.06 | jsync | MySQL typically doesn't require sudo privileges to access, not actually, in previous editions. |
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| 04:42.05 | jsync | If sudo is required to login, then sudo might be required to write to the databases, & that won't work, not at all. |
| 04:42.11 | ozzloy | jsync, oh, are you saying logging in to the db as the db root user requires sudo, even if you know the db's root's pw? |
| 04:42.31 | fuxxy | ozzloy, the opposite |
| 04:42.31 | jsync | Yeah, for some reason. |
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| 04:42.52 | ozzloy | if that's the case, then you need to grant the right privileges on the right tables to the right users |
| 04:43.10 | jsync | I have to su & enter sudo password, then I can login to mysql. |
| 04:44.05 | jsync | I don't want to rewrite the program to work with new, debian specific, bunk mysql rules, not at all. |
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| 04:44.16 | fuxxy | https://askubuntu.com/questions/766334/cant-login-as-mysql-user-root-from-normal-user-account-in-ubuntu-16-04 |
| 04:44.57 | ozzloy | i think you want the app not to require logging in as the db's root user |
| 04:45.48 | ozzloy | are you stuck with that app working in that specific way? |
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| 04:46.15 | ozzloy | this isn't a debian specific issue. any app requiring root privs to the db is broken. |
| 04:46.53 | ozzloy | only reasons for logging in as db's root are not app specific |
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| 04:47.56 | jsync | No. |
| 04:48.06 | ozzloy | ah, good point. i hadn't considered that. |
| 04:48.17 | jsync | The problem is the necessity to sudo first. |
| 04:48.43 | ozzloy | do you need sudo to log in to the db as a user other than db's root? |
| 04:48.57 | ozzloy | if so, then yeah, that's a problem that needs to be fixed |
| 04:49.15 | jsync | I have to sudo first, & then I can use MariaDB. |
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| 04:49.52 | de-facto | do you guys know if there is any character that can not be precent/url encoded, hence never will appear in a decoded uri? |
| 04:49.57 | jsync | It's never been like that with MySQL, & that breaks compatibility with programs. |
| 04:49.57 | ozzloy | are you saying you need to do that even when you're logging into the db as a user other than root? |
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| 04:51.02 | ozzloy | good luck with that, i gtg |
| 04:51.03 | jsync | It doesn't matter. On older MySQL, I didn't need sudo to login as root, not at all. |
| 04:51.25 | jsync | mysql -u root -p |
| 04:52.14 | jsync | Not sudo mysql -u root -p, not at all. That totally breaks functionality of MySQL. |
| 04:53.48 | jsync | I mean, I'm tired of the redundant releases. Update packages, & fix usage of packages, & now the MySQL designers of Debian don't even know how MySQL works?! |
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| 04:55.18 | pingfloyd | what message does it give when you try mysql -u root -p |
| 04:55.51 | jsync | Slow up on the releases. There's not a point in a new debian release, not at all. Update packages. It takes years of working on a system to get a development environment setup, & already Debian has 2 more releases since a dev started on a project. |
| 04:57.14 | jsync | pingfloyd, Access Denied, & software can't even use it, not at all. I mean, that's basic MySQL usage. How could they not know that?! |
| 04:57.46 | ozzloy | can't tell if troll |
| 04:58.07 | pingfloyd | jsync: seems surprising that command doesn't work |
| 04:58.14 | dondelelcaro | jsync: so change mysql to use password instead of socket auth. |
| 04:58.22 | jsync | "Troll-calling" is convenient, inept. |
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| 04:59.05 | dondelelcaro | jsync: socket auth is the default when there isn't a password set; it's the same way that postgresql works. |
| 04:59.58 | jsync | Gnome changes a few gui things, & Debian has a new release. It's ridiculous that I spend so much time setting all this up for Debian to release Buster with a problem like this. |
| 05:00.28 | dondelelcaro | jsync: it's the default for mysql 5.7. Change it if you don't like it |
| 05:00.30 | pingfloyd | so it's this causing it? https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/8.0/en/socket-pluggable-authentication.html |
| 05:02.18 | terr__ | how can I test io speed? I am thinking: cp file /dev/null with some sort of timer? |
| 05:02.49 | terr__ | tttte |
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| 05:02.59 | dondelelcaro | jsync: or likely, fix your grant statements |
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| 05:03.47 | jsync | MySQL shouldn't require me to use sudo, not at all. |
| 05:04.26 | dondelelcaro | jsync: it doesn't require you to use sudo. It does require you to use an authenticated user. |
| 05:04.44 | terr__ | sorry - new gadget - USB switch - usb <-> 4 computers |
| 05:04.52 | terr__ | I pressed the wrong button |
| 05:04.52 | pingfloyd | sudo is more of a symptom |
| 05:05.46 | jsync | Uhh, I promise, it requires sudo. Debian & Ubuntu have people talking about it. |
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| 05:06.31 | jsync | & it's useless to software, because if I need sudo to use MySQL, then the software would as well. |
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| 05:07.24 | jsync | Duhh!! Then the software can't write to the databases, & it's useless. |
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| 05:07.54 | dondelelcaro | jsync: it doesn't require sudo. If you're not interested in helping us help you, there's not much we can do for you. |
| 05:08.48 | jsync | How much you want to bet that Debian & Ubuntu people are in forums saying, "sudo mysql -u root -p", as if that's even usable? |
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| 05:10.48 | pingfloyd | how does what random users post in forums have any bearing? |
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| 05:14.06 | sponix2ipfw | It's easier to complain than to do the 10 minutes of research |
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| 05:16.45 | terr__ | I am working on 2 systems and have a USB switch. The switch works great. What the problem is - if one system get neglected for a few minutes then it locks me out and I have to type in the password to gain access. How do I disable the feature? Blanking the screen in find - that is a mouse touch and its back - I did set a logout timer however it seem to not have worked. It may be as easy as rebooting - I prefer some sort of touch |
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| 05:25.33 | _Arch4ngel | terr__ it depends, what WM are you using? |
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| 05:36.21 | pingfloyd | terr__: what desktop environment are you running? |
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| 05:44.43 | thorie2 | how do i install python 3.6 on debian stretch? |
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| 05:49.38 | netvixtra | thorie2: add testing repos |
| 05:50.00 | thorie2 | ok |
| 05:50.12 | han-solo | thorie2: easiest way would be to build from source |
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| 05:50.31 | thorie2 | building from source doesn't seem easy at all |
| 05:50.44 | han-solo | never had any build issues |
| 05:50.57 | han-solo | Okay, i apologies |
| 05:51.43 | thorie2 | i usually get a ton of errors when i try building something |
| 05:54.16 | thorie2 | are there any deb packages? |
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| 05:55.36 | jm_ | thorie2: do no mix stable and testing |
| 05:56.23 | thorie2 | man i wish i could use buster :( |
| 05:56.28 | jm_ | in this case oldstable |
| 05:56.52 | han-solo | thorie2: why do you need python3.6 when you have 3.7 ? Just curious |
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| 05:57.04 | thorie2 | the buster kernel is too advanced, my nvidia 304 video card isn't supported by buster |
| 05:57.18 | jm_ | which card is it? |
| 05:58.26 | thorie2 | NVIDIA GeForce 6150 LE |
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| 05:59.08 | thorie2 | I went through the Nvidia debian wiki and it says it's only supported up to stretch. |
| 05:59.08 | jm_ | nouveau driver says 6xxx is supported, which exact chip is that? try lspci -nn | grep -i nvid |
| 05:59.09 | netvixtra | buy new hardware |
| 05:59.24 | jm_ | ahh you're using binary only driver? |
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| 05:59.46 | _Arch4ngel | isn't Python3.6 in testing repository? you could add testing and just apt install it... |
| 06:00.37 | thorie2 | i already tried buster and nouveau driver, i just get a scrambled display |
| 06:01.07 | thorie2 | going back to stretch with nvidia 304 binaries worked fine |
| 06:01.20 | _Arch4ngel | I get issues too with nouveau and my GTX 650ti, random freezes and random issues... |
| 06:01.40 | thorie2 | i don't have python 3.7, i have python 3.5.3 |
| 06:01.54 | jm_ | from nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver's README: |
| 06:02.13 | jm_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:02.18 | jm_ | so it should work with that one |
| 06:02.18 | han-solo | thorie2: on stretch, python3.7 should come by default, or so i think :/ |
| 06:02.29 | thorie2 | jm_, i tried it, scrambled screen |
| 06:02.42 | thorie2 | 390xx was the first one i tried, only 304xx works properly |
| 06:02.48 | han-solo | er, i mean, it will be in repo |
| 06:03.57 | thorie2 | 00:05.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: NVIDIA Corporation C51 [GeForce 6150 LE] [10de:0241] (rev a2) |
| 06:03.58 | jm_ | thorie2: bummer, have you also tried buster with bpo kernel? |
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| 06:04.21 | thorie2 | no, what is a bpo kernel? |
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| 06:05.38 | jm_ | newer kernel version from backports |
| 06:05.43 | jm_ | ,kernels |
| 06:05.44 | judd | Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.5.0-rc5-686 (5.5~rc5-1~exp1); sid: 5.4.0-3-686 (5.4.13-1); bullseye: 5.4.0-3-686 (5.4.13-1); buster-backports: 5.4.0-0.bpo.2-686 (5.4.8-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-8-686 (4.19.98-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.19.67-2+deb10u2~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-12-686-pae (4.9.210-1); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); |
| 06:05.45 | judd | jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.11-686-pae (4.9.189-3+deb9u2~deb8u1) |
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| 06:06.06 | thorie2 | sounds like the opposite of what i want? newer kernels break my display |
| 06:06.16 | thorie2 | i need an ancient kernel for my ancient hardware |
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| 06:07.16 | jm_ | it can also mean it fixes a regression |
| 06:07.36 | thorie2 | i could try running buster in a virtualbox instance maybe, but i only have 2 GB of ram so it's tough |
| 06:07.49 | jm_ | in any case, newer python version on stretch will be a hard task |
| 06:08.00 | han-solo | thorie2: oh, i am sorry, i have buster, i thought i had stretch, and i upgrades some time ago |
| 06:08.17 | thorie2 | han-solo, oh okay cool |
| 06:09.19 | pingfloyd | ,python3 |
| 06:09.47 | han-solo | dpkg: python3 |
| 06:09.47 | dpkg | Python 3 is available in the python3 package and installs /usr/bin/python3 for you. Don't be tempted to change the symlink for /usr/bin/python to point to a Python 3 interpreter as that is supposed to be for Python 2 and lots of things will break if you change it. If you want Python 3, invoke 'python3'; explicit is better than implicit! |
| 06:09.57 | han-solo | dpkg: python3.7 |
| 06:09.58 | dpkg | han-solo: I wish you would RTFM. |
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| 06:43.02 | cef | Is there a known issue with tracker.debian.org atm? All I'm getting is 403 Forbidden errors. |
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| 06:43.38 | thorie2 | @cef on vpn? |
| 06:44.05 | cef | @thorie2: no.. just straight up internet via my ISP |
| 06:44.15 | jm_ | same here, 403 |
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| 06:45.17 | cef | Just tracker.d.o, packages.d.o is working fine. |
| 06:45.59 | cef | Ahh well. guess I won't be digging into those package build failures then. ;) |
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| 06:56.44 | ws2k3 | im trying to setup dns delegation for Reverse dns. when i wanne apply my settings at my ISP i get. Server is not authoritative for myip.in-addr.arpa. in my dns provider i have configured this zone with a ptr record in it. How can i check/validate if the DNS provider is responding correctly? |
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| 07:14.23 | jelly | ws2k3: there are several conventions about PTR delegation, did your ISP tell you which one they use? |
| 07:15.36 | jelly | ws2k3: eg. at $work we just set up NS records for every d.c.b.a.in-addr.arpa. No need for CNAMEs or RFC2309. |
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| 07:16.28 | jelly | erm. RFC2317 |
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| 07:24.17 | jelly | https://jdebp.eu/FGA/avoid-rfc-2317-delegation.html |
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| 07:25.28 | ws2k3 | jelly: no my ISP did not tell me which one they use |
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| 07:34.06 | ws2k3 | jelly: im the most confused by the event that my isp sad they received an error when settings op the delegation. cause AFAIK you can perfectly fine setup delegation to a non exsisting dns server. not much will happen.... but its Possible. so Why this error? |
| 07:34.41 | jelly | terr__: pv < file > /dev/null, any depending on what you want to measure, you might want to clear disk cache before that |
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| 07:35.15 | jelly | ws2k3: they might be testing whether your destination is already set up, before activating? |
| 07:36.01 | ws2k3 | jelly: the destination is setup perfectly fine.(as far as i can tell) so i was also looking for some advice on how i can Verify if the destination is setup correctly can i test that with dig maby? |
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| 07:36.28 | jelly | terr__: echo 1 >> /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches (or echo 3, man 5 proc) |
| 07:36.29 | ws2k3 | jelly: i already tryed dig @nsiwannecheck -x ip |
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| 07:40.54 | jelly | that seems ok. ws2k3, what's the provider NS and what's the segment you need PTR delegated? Maybe you can figure out if they _want_ rfc2317 shenanigans and tell them you already have things set up. |
| 07:41.11 | jelly | ws2k3: and perhaps ask in #dns |
| 07:42.03 | ws2k3 | jelly: route 53 |
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| 07:42.59 | ws2k3 | jelly: i pmed you the segment |
| 07:44.06 | jelly | ws2k3: the whole /24 ? |
| 07:44.19 | ws2k3 | jelly: yes |
| 07:44.51 | jelly | well then it's easy to delegate and for you to set up the zone |
| 07:45.05 | ws2k3 | jelly: well i already did |
| 07:46.36 | AquaL1te | hi, i've been trying out the unattended-upgrade package for a few weeks (security updates). it's suppose to send out emails of installed updates, right? i've configured it do that. but haven't had the oppertunity to trigger it (no security updates yet, using old-stable at the moment). just asking to confirm if i suppose to get an email when updates are installed :) |
| 07:46.42 | ws2k3 | jelly: send you 2 dig commands. one ofcrouse goes to the Current server ofcrouse and one goes to Route 53. based on my knowledge i would say this is correctly setup. |
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| 07:50.41 | AquaL1te_ | sorry, lost my connection there. if there were replies to my question of a few minutes ago, please copy/paste it |
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| 07:53.27 | ws2k3 | jelly: #dns is emty |
| 07:54.05 | ws2k3 | jelly: its not emty ^^ my failure |
| 07:54.17 | Nintenuendo | AquaL1te_, what are you asking? |
| 07:54.29 | Nintenuendo | not for our emails i presume :p |
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| 07:54.47 | Nintenuendo | if you've installed this thing, why not test it yourself? |
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| 07:57.01 | AquaL1te_ | Nintenuendo: for that i need security updates, which i haven't received in weeks. i just want to confirm if the behavior is correct as i describe it |
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| 07:59.19 | Nintenuendo | guess i have nobody to email when i install updates, so i have no clue, never used it. but if that's what it does and you've set it up to do that, then yes, i can confirm that is what it is supposed to do if you have indeed set it up. to the answer of if security updates have come out in the last few weeks, why not check the websites for those that put them out? and if some exist, install them and see if your emailer works |
| 07:59.35 | Nintenuendo | i honestly don't know what else you could be asking tho... |
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| 08:03.18 | AquaL1te_ | Nintenuendo: actually, this question applies to those who use it and experienced the behaviour ;) so if you don't use it, you can just ignore the question. your answer is just stating the obvious, no need for that. |
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| 08:11.18 | ws2k3 | jelly: and before i forget. thx alot for ur help! |
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| 08:12.18 | jm_ | surely you can install an old version of some package to trigger security update and test the mail sending |
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| 08:15.41 | AquaL1te_ | jm_: that's a good idea. i will check that possiblility. however, debian lacks something like dnf, to show a clearly readable update overview, correct? something like `dnf history` doesn't exist in debian |
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| 08:17.23 | jelly | apt-listchanges shows and/or mails changelogs during an apt/apt-get/aptitude run. No idea what unattended-upgrades do. |
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| 08:17.55 | xmelzax | hey guys, I'm sorta new to debian by itself. Just installed it on an old crappy PC of mine.. using the netinstall iso. Which file manager do you all prefer? I am using debian + mate.. "caja" I'm not too fond of.. one feature I really ike to have is item check list box toggle |
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| 08:18.56 | jsync | Why does Buster not allow me to install mysql-server? |
| 08:19.24 | jelly | ,v mysql-server |
| 08:19.25 | judd | Package: mysql-server on amd64 -- jessie: 5.5.60-0+deb8u1; jessie-security: 5.5.62-0+deb8u1; stretch: 5.5.9999+default; sid: 5.7.26-1 |
| 08:19.39 | jelly | jsync: porbably because that package does not exist |
| 08:19.52 | jelly | ,v default-mysql-server |
| 08:19.53 | judd | Package: default-mysql-server on amd64 -- stretch: 1.0.2; bullseye: 1.0.5; buster: 1.0.5; sid: 1.0.5 |
| 08:19.58 | AquaL1te_ | jelly: true, and unattended-upgrades does the same, but then automatically installs updates, reboots the system, and suppose to send an email about activity |
| 08:20.06 | xmelzax | I also don't like how the icons/thumbnails lists don't line up neatly in "icon view" mode in caja |
| 08:20.28 | jelly | jsync: ^ that one does and will install a mariadb server, in buster |
| 08:20.30 | jsync | https://linuxize.com/post/how-to-install-mysql-on-debian-10/ |
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| 08:20.40 | xmelzax | sooo please share yOUR FAVOURITE FILE EXPLORER |
| 08:21.05 | jsync | MariaDB has problems. |
| 08:21.06 | AquaL1te_ | https://tracker.debian.org/sudo i know there was a sudo security update lately, which was not marked as a security update in stretch. is the debian bug tracking system down? https://tracker.debian.org/sudo |
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| 08:21.39 | AquaL1te_ | ah, well: https://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs//main/s/sudo/sudo_1.8.19p1-2.1+deb9u2_changelog |
| 08:21.47 | AquaL1te_ | conclusion, it doesn't work :) |
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| 08:22.54 | AquaL1te_ | had to install it manually, and when running unattended-upgrades from the cli, no output was given... config looks good, double checked it with different sources and man page. |
| 08:23.07 | jm_ | AquaL1te_: history of updates? apt and dpkg keep a log |
| 08:23.25 | jelly | AquaL1te_: http://security-tracker.debian.org/CVE-2019-18634 looks tagged in the security tracker |
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| 08:24.05 | jm_ | xmelzax: I use mc, but based on what you wrote that's not for you :) |
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| 08:24.24 | AquaL1te_ | jm_: a readable overview was what i meant :) a logfile is not a clear overview. i can do e.g. `dnf history sudo` on my fedora system. gives an overview about the whole history of that package, including if it was a security update and which cve. not bashing, just stating that a /var/log is not a readable overview |
| 08:25.07 | jelly | AquaL1te_: there's nothing similar or close in debian that I know of |
| 08:25.12 | AquaL1te_ | jelly: true. therefore a bit strange that there was no trigger by the unattended-upgrade package |
| 08:26.16 | jm_ | AquaL1te_: perfect time for you to contribute something then? |
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| 08:28.10 | AquaL1te_ | jm_: well, the update was marked as old-stable, so i suppose that is not a bug in unattended-upgrade, i guess it checks which repo is used for updates, since the config uses that. |
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| 08:29.03 | jm_ | AquaL1te_: yeah, I am not commenting about that, but the part to improve apt to have functionality that dnf has :) |
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| 08:30.41 | xmelzax | jm_, thanks.. yeah mc s a bit too basic for my needs, though I do recall it being very highly regarded by old wizards |
| 08:31.05 | xmelzax | like back in the olden days |
| 08:31.47 | jelly | AquaL1te_: sounds like a bug in either unattended-upgrades or in the workflow that leads to metadata unattended-upgrades uses. |
| 08:31.58 | AquaL1te_ | jm_: possible, but i don't have any C++ skills :) |
| 08:35.07 | jm_ | xmelzax: I occasionaly use tuxcmd to access SMB shares (it's similar to mc) and worker (another stereo one, from my amiga days) |
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| 09:07.07 | PaddyF | my english sucks, i know that. but the german community is closed for me. and i cant solve some things with google |
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| 09:07.26 | PaddyF | like the installer option to erase the space for the encrypted volume |
| 09:07.48 | PaddyF | why is that a good idea? |
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| 09:09.43 | jsync | Is there any chance that the databases don't have the correct write permissions set? My programs are hanging up. |
| 09:10.28 | gagegloio | Bonjour |
| 09:10.34 | PaddyF | gagegloio: o/ |
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| 09:12.30 | gagegloio | hey PaddyF, hello from France to your German brothers ! |
| 09:12.56 | PaddyF | yes! hello. whats the matter for your join? |
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| 09:14.22 | ratrace | PaddyF: it's a good idea because it populates the drive with random-looking data, so it's next to impossible to know what is live encrypted data, and what isn't. |
| 09:14.26 | gagegloio | i join debian channel beaucoup i like this operating system, and it's a good idea to erase volume when you install a fresh operating system on your hard drive |
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| 09:16.50 | gagegloio | with random looking data +1 ratrace |
| 09:16.54 | gagegloio | :) |
| 09:16.58 | PaddyF | but lets say somebody finds a way to access and control my desktop computer. the erase and the encryption does not help |
| 09:17.15 | PaddyF | remotely i mean |
| 09:17.32 | jm_ | it's a protection for a different case |
| 09:18.20 | gagegloio | it's possible, if the hacker control your desktop remotely, he contourn encryption on your desktop |
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| 09:18.42 | gagegloio | bypass |
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| 09:19.12 | at0m | PaddyF: if your partitions are mounted, encryption isn't helping indeed. |
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| 09:19.41 | at0m | PaddyF: encryption i do on laptop, in case it gets stolen, for example |
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| 09:21.32 | crivrc | Hi, I am trying to monitor an lvm-raid I had setup using icinga2, anybody knows of a plugin to do that? I can't find anything in the packages installed by installing the metapackage monitoring-plugins. |
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| 09:34.01 | jsync | Hey, you guys. I found something about authentication updates & a way to set older style plugin for mysql. Perhaps that's the problem I'm having with MariaDB. |
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| 09:44.10 | Wulf | Hello! Where can I ask/beg for a backport of a package to buster? |
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| 09:45.59 | JustASlacker | so |
| 09:46.13 | JustASlacker | whats a good way to build deb packages |
| 09:46.28 | JustASlacker | debomator any good? |
| 09:47.15 | crivrc | JustAslacker: it's been a long time but I used to make them with dpkg-buildpackage. I always checked the debian developer guide whenever I needed to build one. |
| 09:47.35 | crivrc | JustAslacker: that together with fakeroot |
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| 09:47.47 | jm_ | !new maintainers guide |
| 09:47.47 | dpkg | The packaging tutorial (http://deb.li/QYyI) and the New Maintainer's Guide (http://deb.li/3DiDA) are good places to start learning about Debian packaging. You should also ask me about <devref> and <policy> to understand how packages should be maintained and how they should interact with each other. Ask me about <package basics>, <mentors>, <best practices> <build without helper>. http://www.debian.org/devel/ |
| 09:47.48 | crivrc | JustAslacker: I think dpkg-buildpackage -r or something like that |
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| 09:48.11 | crivrc | JustAslacker: sorry, I meant the New Mantainer's Guide |
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| 09:54.16 | Wulf | JustASlacker: debuild -xx -xx I keep forgetting those two flags. |
| 09:55.09 | JustASlacker | I was hoping for some nice tool |
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| 09:56.00 | JustASlacker | building packages is no fun |
| 09:56.21 | tarzeau | JustASlacker: it is |
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| 09:56.41 | ayekat | it's rather an involved process on debian, compared to other distributions |
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| 09:57.10 | tarzeau | the simplest comparing to other packaging, imho (also did homebrew macOS, solaris pkg, macOS dmg/pkg, freebsd ports, redhat rpm) |
| 09:57.25 | JustASlacker | which makes the lack of tooling for that all the more bothersome |
| 09:57.33 | tarzeau | ayekat: debian is the easiest one for people (anyone) do packages for the official distribution |
| 09:57.53 | tarzeau | ayekat: best: raspbian, devuan, ubuntu, mint.... they all copy from debian so it gets a wide spread, see repology.org |
| 09:58.01 | JustASlacker | Id say slackware is pretty much the simplest :P |
| 09:58.13 | tarzeau | JustASlacker: in debian i just do dh_make;debuild (fill in the fields) that's it |
| 09:58.18 | JustASlacker | having no dependecy resolution or anything |
| 09:58.26 | JustASlacker | hm |
| 09:58.31 | tarzeau | JustASlacker: but i want dependency resolution, for binary packages! |
| 09:58.33 | ayekat | tarzeau: there's lots of helper tools that strap tons of abstraction layers on top of the packaging process (also due to popularity), so yes, it might be "easiest" |
| 09:58.39 | ayekat | tarzeau: but it's certainly far from the simplest |
| 09:59.04 | tarzeau | ayekat: i haven't seen a simpler one, and the abstraction layers could be improved a lot |
| 09:59.15 | JustASlacker | debuild without a chroot? |
| 09:59.17 | tarzeau | (oh also looked at appimage, flatpak, snaps) still prefer debian |
| 09:59.29 | tarzeau | JustASlacker: sure, and sbuild to check if the deps are right |
| 09:59.54 | tarzeau | JustASlacker: http://phd-sid.ethz.ch/debian/ that's where i do my packaging (when salsa.d.o is down like now) |
| 09:59.56 | ayekat | that being said, if you want to follow the proper procedure (downstream fork, patching with quilt, git repo management, dh, ...) |
| 10:00.01 | JustASlacker | what about the debian/control debian/rules |
| 10:00.04 | ayekat | it's quite a bit of workk and reading |
| 10:00.17 | tarzeau | JustASlacker: fill it right :) |
| 10:00.36 | tarzeau | ayekat: patching you can skip if you work with nice upstream |
| 10:00.55 | ayekat | tarzeau: doesn't matter - the procedure stays the same, and you still have to learn the tools |
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| 10:01.21 | tarzeau | ayekat: i'm doing packages 15+ years if not 20, and it's very little to learn |
| 10:01.23 | ayekat | of course you can take shortcuts... but that's not exactly doing things properly in my eyes |
| 10:01.47 | JustASlacker | I have to package up the tpm2-tools |
| 10:01.53 | tarzeau | ayekat: i've got 0.5 bugs/package, and mostly all ticks for lintian/git on my qa page (currently down also) |
| 10:01.55 | jelly | tarzeau: your workflow is OUTDATED and has SMELLS :-) |
| 10:02.05 | tarzeau | jelly: file a bug report ;) |
| 10:02.13 | tarzeau | jelly: i take patches/comments |
| 10:02.25 | JustASlacker | https://github.com/tpm2-software/tpm2-tools. They are on version 4.x now, while still at 2.x in debian buster |
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| 10:02.42 | tarzeau | JustASlacker: and in sid/experimental? |
| 10:02.46 | jelly | my opinions about some of those smells are smelly |
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| 10:03.04 | tarzeau | jelly: if you want my opinion about them, feel free |
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| 10:03.43 | tarzeau | JustASlacker: top in debian sid: https://repology.org/project/tpm2-tools/versions |
| 10:04.01 | JustASlacker | oh nice |
| 10:04.06 | tarzeau | JustASlacker: many people i know run their own reprepro, and there's fasttrack coming up |
| 10:04.29 | JustASlacker | well, that saves me tons of work |
| 10:04.42 | JustASlacker | all hail testing |
| 10:05.14 | JustASlacker | now I need that in ubuntu as well |
| 10:05.24 | JustASlacker | but Im in the wrong channel for that |
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| 10:05.29 | tarzeau | JustASlacker: pay me a $ and get it on my ppa, for which 18.04? 19.10? 20.04? |
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| 10:05.52 | JustASlacker | my target is ubuntu TLS |
| 10:05.58 | JustASlacker | so 18.04 |
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| 10:08.55 | PaddyF | wow, are there many packaging tutorials (on youtube) |
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| 10:11.48 | tarzeau | PaddyF: i had done one in #debian 15+ years ago |
| 10:11.56 | tarzeau | PaddyF: and i've got a CEO 3-pages version as .rtf |
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| 10:13.00 | foxmask | hi |
| 10:13.13 | PaddyF | this one here seems good quality and its quite recent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O83rIRRJysA |
| 10:13.26 | tarzeau | avoids google products with ads/spam |
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| 10:13.40 | foxmask | how can we check if python-acme package provide the ACMEv2 protocol ? |
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| 10:17.07 | PaddyF | foxmask: when thats python2 then its deprecated |
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| 10:17.21 | ratrace | foxmask: TIAS. or, in general, you'd look up the package upstream release notes or other documentation and find out with which version some feature is supported. sometimes features are in package description or changelog. |
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| 10:20.28 | foxmask | ratrace: that's what's I did ; otherwise I won't be there ;) I look into /usr/share/doc/python3-acme/changelog.Debian.gz but when reading it ; even if there is no version information, the dates in the changelog are too old to be related to ACMEv2 |
| 10:21.10 | ratrace | foxmask: you don't have any other optoins, short of asking if anyone knows what you're asking for a fact. |
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| 10:28.23 | thorie2 | i solved my "python3.7 in stretch" issue |
| 10:29.37 | Fox | foxmask: python3-acme is ok with ACMEv2 on buster, I use it to get wilcard certificates |
| 10:29.45 | foxmask | @paddyf it should work with python 2 to 3.7 @ratrace I expected to trigger a reaction from someone who will know ; w/o guessing by digging like I did |
| 10:30.18 | foxmask | Fox: thanks |
| 10:30.37 | ratrace | foxmask: well, you asked how to find out info, not if anyone had it :) |
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| 11:20.22 | ZAJDAN1 | hi...is anyhow possible copy via ssh files which has been created today only? |
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| 11:22.24 | ZAJDAN1 | I forgot to say via rsync |
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| 11:23.53 | Fox | the real question should be "how to list files created today" |
| 11:24.06 | ratrace | ZAJDAN1: rsync already does delta transfer, between two directories only files that have changed will be moved. if that's not sufficient, you'll have to build a list with `find` and then feed that list to rsync |
| 11:24.38 | Fox | I would `find <path> -daystart -ctime 0 -print` |
| 11:25.21 | oerheks | Fox +1 ctime |
| 11:25.27 | ZAJDAN1 | fox: sounds good |
| 11:26.57 | jm_ | or if your shell allows you to use extended globbing, like zsh, but that has issues over scp |
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| 11:32.27 | ZAJDAN1 | rsync --delete -avz --files-from=<(find /src_path -ctime -0 -print) /local/ /remote/ ; |
| 11:32.48 | ZAJDAN1 | somehow like this? |
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| 11:34.14 | quarterback | How do I know if my system is using its onboard graphic card correctly and has hardware acceleration? |
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| 11:35.23 | quarterback | Some graphics seem fast while others are slow in debian. |
| 11:35.45 | quarterback | It seems to get the job done for now though without too many problems. |
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| 11:42.11 | PaddyF | !glxinfo |
| 11:42.11 | dpkg | from memory, glxinfo is a useful program, especially when debugging <DRI>/<GLX>. Packaged for Debian in mesa-utils. |
| 11:42.23 | PaddyF | !mesa |
| 11:42.24 | dpkg | Mesa 3D is an open source implementation of the <OpenGL> API. http://mesa3d.org/ #dri-devel on irc.freenode.net. See also <glx>. |
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| 11:48.16 | quarterback | PaddyF, https://pastebin.com/PvsqMirq is the output for glxinfo |
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| 11:52.07 | PaddyF | quarterback: to me (i am not an expert!) it looks like Mesa is used and accelerated too |
| 11:52.17 | PaddyF | so the question is which graphics are slow? |
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| 11:53.24 | ZAJDAN1 | find /mypath/ -type f -ctime -1 ..shows me all files not created today only |
| 11:53.41 | quarterback | PaddyF, It seems direct rendering is enabled. |
| 11:54.05 | quarterback | PaddyF, This could be due to a slower processor? Core 2 duo e7400? |
| 11:54.27 | quarterback | The graphics chipset is intel q35 express graphics. |
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| 11:54.34 | jelly | ZAJDAN1: ctime is "change time", there's no easy way to get creation time right now |
| 11:54.58 | PaddyF | quarterback: my guesses are not of use there. we need additional info: during which computing do you experience slow downs? |
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| 11:55.25 | ZAJDAN1 | jelly: ok so I will try somehow say not older than 1 day |
| 11:55.31 | jelly | ZAJDAN1: as a next best thing, -mtime -1 -type f |
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| 11:55.58 | quarterback | PaddyF, I see slow graphics when maximizing or minimizing a window and when opening a web browser or a folder. |
| 11:56.09 | ZAJDAN1 | jelly thank you |
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| 11:56.27 | quarterback | PaddyF, This was fixed in a previous installation I did and added some type of HW acceleration package. |
| 11:56.43 | quarterback | PaddyF, Video playback seems normal |
| 11:57.31 | PaddyF | i experienced this fullscreen mode problem with firefox and the secondlife viewer. but yeah, it should be fixed by now |
| 11:58.20 | quarterback | I will just carry on with this and look for a fix later |
| 11:58.26 | PaddyF | maybe somebody more knowledgeable has an opinion on this |
| 11:58.38 | quarterback | With ubuntu the graphics seemed faster and snappy. |
| 11:59.57 | quarterback | compiz was really great with gnome |
| 12:00.01 | ratrace | opengl uses cpu as well as gpu. if the cpu is busy (like it would be starting an application), then graphics performance will suffer too |
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| 12:00.46 | quarterback | Cpu utilization is usually just under 5% when I start a application. |
| 12:01.59 | ZAJDAN1 | as is for rsync option --files-from= ...exist also something for directory-from ? |
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| 12:03.06 | ratrace | ZAJDAN1: include from does patterns |
| 12:03.11 | ratrace | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:04.05 | jelly | ZAJDAN1: you can probably put directories in the --files-from file as well, try it |
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| 12:05.50 | ZAJDAN1 | rsync --delete -avz --files-from=<(find /source/ -type f -mtime -1 -print) /source/ /destination/ |
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| 12:06.27 | ZAJDAN1 | when in the source is subdir where is the file: failed: No such file or directory (2) |
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| 12:07.10 | ZAJDAN1 | cause I do not know which the subdir it will be so iam not able pass the path for rsync |
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| 12:07.47 | jelly | ZAJDAN1: it's probably a good idea to use -n until you're 100% sure the command would do what you want |
| 12:08.38 | jelly | ZAJDAN1: and consider the fact that --include takes paths that are relative to source dir |
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| 12:09.15 | jelly | ZAJDAN1: and if you're using --files-from, you don't need a /source/, those files are the source |
| 12:09.25 | ZAJDAN1 | aha! |
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| 12:10.36 | ZAJDAN1 | rsync --delete -avz --files-from=<(find /source/ -type f -mtime -1 -print) /destination/ ...also doesnt works |
| 12:11.41 | ZAJDAN1 | rsync error: syntax or usage error (code 1) |
| 12:11.52 | ZAJDAN1 | seems to be needs the /source/ |
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| 12:13.58 | ZAJDAN1 | rsync --delete -avz --files-from=<(find /source/ -type f -mtime -1 -print) / /destination/ works properly seems to be |
| 12:15.01 | ZAJDAN1 | yes but it copy whole the path not only the file itself |
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| 12:16.44 | jelly | huh |
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| 12:17.06 | jelly | okay, then I don't know how --files-from= works |
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| 12:25.53 | ratrace | the list is relative to the src dir |
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| 12:26.12 | ZAJDAN1 | ratrace: yes it is |
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| 12:30.15 | jim | did anyone running buster know vlc has problems (for me, gets muted) when jack2d is started? |
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| 12:32.48 | PsynoKhi0 | hey, first time giving guided partitioning with LVM and 3 separate partitions, I can't seem to be able to adjust the partitions' size, (mostly shrink /home and adjust / and /var), is it "Working As Intended(tm)"? |
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| 12:33.00 | PsynoKhi0 | giving a try* |
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| 12:37.37 | jim | PsynoKhi0, three separate partitions? which? |
| 12:37.53 | jim | about the vlc thing, I resolved that |
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| 12:42.35 | matheus | hey |
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| 12:42.59 | dvs | io |
| 12:43.16 | PsynoKhi0 | jim: /home /var /tmp |
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| 13:20.27 | jelly | PsynoKhi0: delete home, edit / and /var, create /home again smaller |
| 13:21.15 | jelly | make sure to leave some space in VG free; the installer will lead you to make /home use 100% of the remaining space which is dumb |
| 13:23.41 | jim | PsynoKhi0, oh ok, I got confused when you said "partitions", I had thought you were using lvm? |
| 13:26.31 | jim | my understanding of the difference, is with partitions, you make partitions using a partition tool, format them with a filesystem directly, and mount the partition with the filesystem. with LVM, instead of putting filesystems in partitions directly, you put 'LVM physical volumes' in partitions, then you make a 'volume group' (which is just a list of physical volumes), and put physical volumes in the volume groups, then you can make 'logical volumes', and |
| 13:26.31 | jim | these are what you would format and mount, and they got allocated from a volume group. |
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| 13:32.10 | joepublic | put that way, sounds like an absurd number of extra steps. |
| 13:33.30 | ZAJDAN1 | jelly: I fount a way for the rsync, to copy files fro today only |
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| 13:34.46 | joepublic | oh, the suspense |
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| 13:35.20 | ZAJDAN1 | jelly: find /mypath/ -type f -mtime -1 -printf %P\\0\\n | rsync --delete -avz --files-from=- /mypath/ /remote/ |
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| 13:41.58 | PaddyF | now, i celebrate my little debian powered website! *prost* |
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| 13:51.33 | PsynoKhi0 | jelly: ah ok ty |
| 13:52.38 | PsynoKhi0 | jim: yes I use lvm, the installer mentions "separate partitions" for the 3 mount points, instead of LVs |
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| 13:52.55 | nt80 | i've just updated Buster to the latest with 'apt upgrade' and now during the boot process there are funny images like this https://ibb.co/DYP1yF9 https://ibb.co/hDpjd9p |
| 13:53.02 | nt80 | looks funny but scary at the same time |
| 13:53.52 | joepublic | That is not a feature of Debian. |
| 13:53.54 | nemo | what the heck is that |
| 13:54.02 | nt80 | it's Linux debian 4.19.0-8-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.98-1 (2020-01-26) x86_64 GNU/Linux, anyone know why does it happen? |
| 13:54.20 | nemo | nt80: rootkit malfunction ð |
| 13:54.27 | nemo | hm. |
| 13:54.28 | nt80 | in fact it's inside a KVM container but still |
| 13:54.40 | jim | PsynoKhi0, I see, so it's trying to use partitions rather than lvs? |
| 13:55.29 | jim | PsynoKhi0, in that case I think I'd recommend manually setting up the lvs |
| 13:55.35 | nemo | is that a codepage 437 smiley face? |
| 13:55.58 | nemo | or just a side effect of whatever font is being used I guess. sure reminds me of the old ibm font one though |
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| 13:56.37 | nemo | hm. maybe it isn't even a smiley. so small. hard to make out |
| 13:57.11 | nt80 | i have a similar OS installed on other KVM VM with a previous version Linux debian 4.19.0-6-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.67-2+deb10u2 (2019-11-11) x86_64 GNU/Linux and it doesn't happen there |
| 13:58.03 | nemo | wish I could tell what character that is. might help in searching for other reports |
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| 13:58.19 | nemo | also there's symbols in the brown blocks but can't make them out |
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| 13:58.58 | nt80 | is there a possibility that my downloads were hijacked during the apt upgrade? i didn't install anything that may affect the keyring |
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| 14:00.02 | joepublic | "Is there a possibility" vs. "is there any reasonable probability" is likely to make a huge difference here, one being yes, the other, no. |
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| 14:00.07 | torchinz | hey guys, I am on Debian buster and Win 10 x64 dual boot. |
| 14:00.18 | torchinz | For some reasons, the only way I can boot into Debian is via pressing F9 (boot order menu) and selecting the Debian UEFI from that |
| 14:00.19 | joepublic | torchinz, that's 50% awesome! |
| 14:00.49 | torchinz | If I do not hit F9, it boots directly to Windows |
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| 14:01.01 | joepublic | Is that a bad thing, since you are manually choosing at boot time anyway? Just curious. |
| 14:01.15 | nt80 | so any tips on how to debug this? this happens right before I see the framebuffer showing some of systemd units starting |
| 14:01.30 | nemo | nt80: I'm betting on the smiley being a 0x01 in ibm437 |
| 14:01.41 | torchinz | It is joepublic. If I miss it, I do not get the Debian option at all and I have to reboot |
| 14:02.03 | nemo | nt80: the other characters are probably other similar garbage from that codepage |
| 14:02.26 | nt80 | could it be related to the framebuffer video driver? |
| 14:02.28 | joepublic | please raise your hand if you care what characters they are (nemo exclcuded) |
| 14:02.46 | joepublic | nt80, nomodeset? |
| 14:02.50 | nemo | joepublic: I was hoping that they would offer clues as to what was failing. since it's the only info we have... |
| 14:02.59 | nemo | whatever. was just trying to help |
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| 14:03.05 | joepublic | nemo, fair enough. makes sense. |
| 14:03.27 | nt80 | you made him quit :( lol |
| 14:04.11 | joepublic | well, certainly didn't mean to do that |
| 14:05.05 | quarterback | How to enable transparent glass look in compiz when switching applications using ALT key? |
| 14:05.14 | quarterback | This was working in ubuntu but not in debian. |
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| 14:05.57 | Akuw_ | is there a html template to create a simple HowTo |
| 14:05.59 | Akuw_ | ? |
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| 14:06.03 | Akuw_ | sorry |
| 14:07.59 | quarterback | I am using ALT <tab> keys at the same time.How to make the items transparent? |
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| 14:13.22 | nt80 | ok it only happens with a QXL as a video adapter in QEMU settings. Doesn't happen with virtio and 'VGA' |
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| 14:15.21 | joepublic | I wonder what changed between apt-get upgrade before and after |
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| 14:18.45 | nt80 | i guess it's related directly to linux-image |
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| 14:20.07 | nt80 | https://paste.debian.net/1130302/ those packages that were updated |
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| 14:21.38 | joepublic | the mesa packages could affect output but such a screen so early into the process, I agree, more likely to be related to the different kernel |
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| 14:40.44 | terr__ | this is not making sense. I am timing file READ speeds on external drives connected via USB 2. I get this: 18 mb/s from a kingston stick rated at 100 MB/s 33 mb/s from an SD card rated for 100 MB/s and on a 1 TB HDD these numbers: 32.3 MB/s 33.0 MB/s 113 MB/s and 129 MB/s. its a 672 MB file. Did linux cache the whole damn thing? |
| 14:41.24 | greycat | It will certainly attempt to do so. |
| 14:42.06 | terr__ | greycat, well it has no reason not to. Its not like its doing anything - I am trying to get raw speeds. |
| 14:42.48 | greycat | https://www.thegeekdiary.com/how-to-clear-the-buffer-pagecache-disk-cache-under-linux/ |
| 14:43.11 | terr__ | so it appears the USB 2 bus is somehow running at 20% to 30% of USB stick and SD card. Why would access to the HDD be so slow? |
| 14:43.12 | tarzeau | exactly what i need for my fsbench! |
| 14:43.15 | tarzeau | greycat: thanks for the link |
| 14:43.26 | tarzeau | terr__: usb-2 *IS* slow |
| 14:43.36 | tarzeau | uses e-sata |
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| 14:43.55 | terr__ | it should be about 480 Mbits/sec no? 480 MB/s? |
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| 14:44.30 | greycat | usb 2?! no. no way. |
| 14:44.40 | terr__ | MBytes/s ... that is what it should be - far faster than the USB stick and SD card and slower than the HDD. |
| 14:45.00 | terr__ | well how fast then? |
| 14:45.14 | greycat | google is telling me USB 2 has a theoretical max of 480 Mbits per second, definitely not MB per second |
| 14:45.15 | tarzeau | slower than gbit |
| 14:45.42 | terr__ | MBits. OK. so we are at 50% and 75% |
| 14:45.50 | greycat | and of course there's no guarantee that an individual USB 2 device can attain that speed |
| 14:45.51 | terr__ | that is reasonable! |
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| 14:46.12 | terr__ | the HDD certainly can - its SATA |
| 14:46.27 | terr__ | but the interface? That is another matter |
| 14:46.38 | tarzeau | terr__: i'm using this https://github.com/alexmyczko/autoexec.bat/blob/master/fsbench |
| 14:47.54 | terr__ | tarzeau, I don't need accurate numbers. I need to know what to expect. and 50% and 75% are ok. BUT - it does mean I need USB 3.0 or 3.1 or even Thunderbird |
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| 14:48.09 | tarzeau | terr__: it's not accurate, it's what you want |
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| 14:48.37 | tarzeau | finds usb2+3 attacheds disks way too slow, but ifyou're fine with that |
| 14:48.45 | terr__ | tarzeau, noo. these laptops I am working on are USB 2. The new machines will be USB 3 |
| 14:48.53 | tarzeau | use SATA port directly! |
| 14:48.57 | tarzeau | open that laptop! |
| 14:49.00 | terr__ | I do that as well. |
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| 14:49.51 | terr__ | tarzeau, I am backing up the internal drives. Meanwhile I am running externally - have Linux booted from a 32 GB thumb at the moment |
| 14:49.53 | tarzeau | i often have to transfer data in 100+ gb to multiple TB, prefer 10gbit network or sata at least, certainly not usb |
| 14:50.12 | terr__ | But I have SD cards as well. And they have 100 MB/s ratings |
| 14:50.18 | tarzeau | terr__: 20 years ago i wrote http://aiei.ch/linux/ubercopy/ |
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| 14:50.52 | tarzeau | terr__: that's for when attached without USB, in a proper photo camera |
| 14:50.57 | terr__ | tarzeau, I don't have that stuff running yet. BUT - I can set up a network drive. Now I know I need one. |
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| 14:52.27 | terr__ | tarzeau, 20 years ago I sort of was quitting using computers for a while. Now I am back following my calling... and I have forgotten so much and the boys and girls moved the bleadin goal posts too. |
| 14:53.17 | tarzeau | terr__: we had an old ultrasparc-10 with disk drives for cloning |
| 14:53.26 | tarzeau | terr__: worked great with solaris+windows |
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| 14:55.46 | quarterback | A really good linux administration tutorial in the form of videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bju_FdCo42w&list=PLtK75qxsQaMLZSo7KL-PmiRarU7hrpnwK |
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| 15:01.03 | PaddyF | quarterback: IMO its too old |
| 15:02.07 | quarterback | Yes, but should help with the basics. |
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| 15:02.43 | quarterback | I think I have i386 debian version on a core2duo. Is it better to get the AMD64 version? |
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| 15:03.11 | greycat | I always install amd64 if the machine can handle it. |
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| 15:03.39 | quarterback | It seems my machine is 64bit. Can it be faster than i386 version? |
| 15:04.34 | quarterback | It has the EMT64 architecture. |
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| 15:07.29 | quarterback | The i386 version is just fine. The machine has some latency in starting applications. |
| 15:08.00 | quarterback | I wonder if this latency is absent in amd64 version. |
| 15:08.15 | jelly | quarterback: some things are a bit faster, some things are even slower on 64bit, most important difference is processes being able to use more than 4GB RAM |
| 15:08.35 | jelly | core2duo is just slow and old |
| 15:08.46 | quarterback | The machine has just 4 GB ram. So should I leave it as it is? |
| 15:08.57 | quarterback | and its DDR2 800 |
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| 15:09.33 | jelly | if you're using a web browser or similar memory-heavy apps, you may see a difference if you get more RAM |
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| 15:09.50 | jelly | next thing to do is put OS and /home on an SSD |
| 15:10.18 | jelly | only then the next thing to do is get a machine with faster cpu and newer ram |
| 15:10.19 | quarterback | web browser is somewhat slow on this. |
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| 15:10.54 | jelly | I'm pretty happy with a second-hand i3-4130 (haswell) desktop, got it for $120 or so |
| 15:10.58 | quarterback | I was hoping to get a new CPU, preferably a XEON or ryzen 3 1200 or i5 |
| 15:11.06 | quarterback | and DDR3 or DDR4 ram. |
| 15:11.53 | quarterback | I am going to try a xeon quad core processor in the same setup. |
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| 15:19.04 | jelly | quarterback: if you have extra $$ blow it or more RAM, not better cpu |
| 15:19.39 | countdr | If memory is faulty you can always remove one. |
| 15:19.54 | quarterback | memory is fine |
| 15:19.59 | quarterback | cpu is also fine. |
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| 15:20.19 | jelly | unless you know exactly what kind of workload needs extra cpu, putting a xeon inside a workstation is just a waste of electricity |
| 15:20.21 | quarterback | Its just I am choosing between amd64 vs i386 version of debian. |
| 15:20.39 | jelly | amd64 |
| 15:20.41 | quarterback | jelly, This xeon L5420 has a TDP of 50W. |
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| 15:21.04 | quarterback | It sort of works on old 775 motherboards with a tweak |
| 15:21.12 | countdr | I think i386 might win a race, but amd64 has better boot. |
| 15:22.03 | quarterback | its like i386 starts slow but performs same as amd64. |
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| 15:22.36 | quarterback | I once ran a webserver as debian i386 and it was fast with upload speeds upto 200 MB/sec |
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| 15:23.02 | quarterback | The AMD64 version used more RAM. |
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| 15:23.11 | countdr | The programs are half size on i386. So your Xeon can fit more in |
| 15:23.20 | JustASlacker | so |
| 15:23.27 | greycat | *some* parts of some programs will require more RAM on amd64 |
| 15:23.40 | JustASlacker | Im trying to build tpm2-tools version 4.1 |
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| 15:23.53 | quarterback | xeon would be better with amd64 perhaps. |
| 15:24.07 | countdr | It does have big cache |
| 15:24.19 | JustASlacker | I could use a lot of stuff from https://salsa.debian.org/ but https://salsa.debian.org/debian/tpm2-pkcs11 is just an empty repository |
| 15:24.25 | JustASlacker | which is sad |
| 15:24.42 | quarterback | yes, cache of xeon probably its best feature. |
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| 15:29.31 | terr__ | tarzeau, I have worked on Sun equipment. In fact I have Solaris here |
| 15:29.44 | terr__ | tarzeau, I have worked on VAX as well |
| 15:29.52 | tarzeau | terr__: so did i :) but i preffered openstep on sparc hw :) |
| 15:30.00 | terr__ | tarzeau, I have worked on PDP as well |
| 15:30.04 | tarzeau | terr__: as an apprentice i had access to a VAX |
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| 15:30.13 | tarzeau | terr__: i'm out, no PDP :( |
| 15:30.23 | tarzeau | 8 or 11? |
| 15:31.19 | terr__ | I left that world behind. I bought a DOS PC for $10,000 and my other option was LISA or a $16,000 UNIX system. I picked the PC because I knew people didn't really know why they wanted UNIX |
| 15:31.38 | terr__ | tarzeau, how about TI 990? |
| 15:31.53 | tarzeau | the dos pc was without sound (adlib or the like)? and which video card? |
| 15:31.53 | countdr | The reason I use UNIX is so I can format my computer. |
| 15:32.15 | terr__ | You have to be REALLY out for that. But it had an overlay linker. So 99 overlays to go and it bleedin well worked |
| 15:32.17 | tarzeau | terr__: never heard of TI 990, TI is probably texas instruments? the handheld things with lcd display and basic language? |
| 15:32.54 | terr__ | I bought an EGA - and then had to poke video registers to get graphics up - Oh well - a bit of Assembler. |
| 15:33.09 | tarzeau | heh, fun! |
| 15:33.36 | terr__ | no - Expensive - very expensive. Client was sold a bill of goods and needed it running - I said I can get it working for you. |
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| 15:34.26 | terr__ | tarzeau, fortunately we usually don't need to use assembler any more |
| 15:34.41 | tarzeau | terr__: you think so! |
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| 15:35.05 | tarzeau | terr__: i've a bunch of packages with inline/native assembler (of all kinds of arches) |
| 15:35.29 | terr__ | And - I just checked... the store sold me a 5v 2.5a power supply for a Raspberry pi - it NEEDS USB 3 - 20v 3a (60w) |
| 15:35.51 | terr__ | wonderful. |
| 15:36.09 | terr__ | I think I will be able to avoid that. |
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| 15:37.48 | countdr | That's where I learned about tmpfs. Orange pi |
| 15:38.12 | terr__ | I've now got the kernel for buster on the target HDD. Next step - get Grub in with a suitable MBR. What I need to find out. During the boot process we have sector 0 read in and it then branches into the grub loader - that part is just fine. How does Grub boot a kernel that lives in a partition? and what happens if I move that partition to a different drive? |
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| 15:38.52 | countdr | terr__: Do you mean Raspberry pi hard disk? |
| 15:39.30 | terr__ | countdr, I need to learn about the differnet fruits. I prefer peach pi - I use to have a big raspberry patch and I don't care for raspberries - so I just to give them away. |
| 15:39.46 | countdr | I don't get it |
| 15:41.01 | countdr | terr__: Do you want hard disk grub inside PC? |
| 15:41.15 | terr__ | countdr, Pi 4 doesn't have one - it uses SD. I have an external HDD on this laptop and I want to make it bootable under buster. The laptop is currently booted from a USB stick and its running stretch. It also has an internal HDD and I intend to back that image up and BLOW IT AWAY and install linux and a different version of windows 7 |
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| 15:41.35 | terr__ | not now. I want grub on the external HDD only |
| 15:41.47 | terr__ | and I want to do it manually so I knwo what I'm doing. |
| 15:41.48 | countdr | grub-install |
| 15:41.57 | terr__ | gave me an error |
| 15:42.42 | terr__ | grub-install /dev/sdc <--- note - it searched!!! & didn't work |
| 15:42.42 | terr__ | The file /boot/grub/stage1 not read correctly |
| 15:43.00 | countdr | Need to specify /boot partition |
| 15:43.12 | terr__ | I didn't have any kernels on the HDD at the time and presently I have no symlinks |
| 15:43.30 | countdr | I mean: need to specify a partition with /boot on it. |
| 15:43.34 | terr__ | countdr, how do I do that? |
| 15:43.44 | countdr | Is it not an argument to grub-install |
| 15:43.57 | terr__ | let me check. are you saying it has /boot hard coded? |
| 15:44.08 | terr__ | that is why I didn't see it. |
| 15:45.40 | terr__ | HDD has /boot directory is empty. I can copy debian-10.blah.iso to it. |
| 15:46.10 | countdr | Well of course you would cp -r /boot /mnt/Target/ |
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| 15:46.40 | terr__ | didn't see it in the docs. The docs at the admin section in debian.org are vague IMHO we should upgrade them. |
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| 15:47.05 | countdr | I did see an option but I don't want to give bad advice |
| 15:47.05 | terr__ | What is the -r for? |
| 15:47.14 | greycat | recursive |
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| 15:47.27 | terr__ | countdr, na - it ways arms. |
| 15:47.35 | terr__ | why recursive? |
| 15:47.43 | terr__ | I should just be able to cp |
| 15:47.55 | greycat | you can't cp a directory, unless you pass the -r or -a option |
| 15:48.10 | greycat | wooledg:~$ cp /etc /tmp/ |
| 15:48.10 | greycat | cp: -r not specified; omitting directory '/etc' |
| 15:48.28 | terr__ | oh! - I wasn't goign to copy the directory... I was just going to copy the boot image! |
| 15:48.44 | terr__ | I have the directory mounted... via loopback. |
| 15:48.56 | countdr | MBR wise, grub-install copies the boot sector |
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| 15:49.09 | terr__ | let me check what is actually in /boot on the .iso |
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| 15:53.53 | countdr | terr__: Have you booted into the iso ? From there you copy /boot then grub-install |
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| 15:58.47 | terr__ | countdr, no - I booted into the stretch .iso - I mounted the buster .iso but I would either a) have to copy it to external media or b) boot from the loopback mounted .iso (and I doubt that will actually work) |
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| 16:00.12 | countdr | No can do. Why not boot from buster iso? |
| 16:00.18 | terr__ | this is what I see in /boot (buster.iso) /boot contains only grub and grub contains this: https://termbin.com/3zid |
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| 16:00.48 | terr__ | I can copy that over to the HDD... |
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| 16:05.52 | countdr | After that's done. update-grub is next |
| 16:06.21 | terr__ | countdr, I figured I want to learn how to do it manually. I can copy it. |
| 16:06.52 | terr__ | have a look in termbin.com/3zid |
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| 16:07.18 | terr__ | those are efi images - this is an MBR disk |
| 16:07.28 | countdr | I turn off EFI |
| 16:07.46 | terr__ | this machine doesn't even support EFI |
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| 16:10.53 | terr__ | damn. I need to disable the time out on that machine (I'm working on twin laptops - two of everything). I did set the time to 20 minutes however its not listening. And I forget what I set. Probably not the right parameter anyways. How do I just tell the machine to NEVER log me out - blanking the screen is just fine... but I would like that at say 20 minutes |
| 16:11.50 | countdr | Mmm that is the display manager? Or the screen saver? I use xdm and openbox |
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| 16:13.37 | terr__ | countdr, I was in the debian website and accidently downloaded the buster.iso - no big deal - I copied it to an SD and moved it over the the target machine. so now I have that .iso on 1) the SD card 2) the USB stick stretch is booted from and 3) the target HDD (and I ran rebootstrap - so the packages are already there) |
| 16:14.01 | countdr | Did you dd the iso to the SD card? |
| 16:14.15 | countdr | dd is a command |
| 16:14.37 | terr__ | countdr, Its all default. I installed stretch a year ago. - ya - took me that long... and its all default. |
| 16:14.45 | countdr | Perhaps the BIOS will boot from the SD card |
| 16:14.57 | countdr | Worth a shot |
| 16:15.05 | terr__ | countdr, I created the USB boot media from a windows 7 box. I forget how I did it. |
| 16:15.43 | terr__ | nope - won't - there is no boot record and no grub. Likely grub can boot from that .iso. |
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| 16:16.55 | countdr | man dd |
| 16:17.52 | terr__ | I can maybe even boot from a loopback mount. But I have doubtes about that - because as the kernel comes up its going to be looking for stuff and the file stems its loaded from will not be present. HOWEVER - if I have the HDD prepared with a proper file system and proper entries then that new kernel should be VERY happy. and if so it means one would not HAVE to burn the .iso to new media. |
| 16:19.17 | countdr | I understand dd is danger but that's what I use |
| 16:20.26 | countdr | terr__ There are some user friendly Linux like Mint |
| 16:20.27 | terr__ | countdr, I am comfortable with dd. so I am reading: dd if=/blah/debian-10.blah.iso of=/dev/sdd (in my case adn I do have sdd1 mounted right now). That will blow everything off the SD card. its 32 GB. I can use a blank CD as well. maybe I should do that. |
| 16:20.56 | terr__ | Nach0z, I like Debian. I looked at Ubuntu. Not for me. |
| 16:21.08 | Nach0z | uh |
| 16:21.11 | countdr | umount /dev/sdd1 |
| 16:21.18 | terr__ | I can lift and replace the MBR. that is pretty easy. |
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| 16:22.29 | terr__ | ya - I would do that first - but I suspect no reason to blow away the FAT32 on the 32GB SD card which I will have to replace - when I already have a stack of writeable CD's (and another stack of writeable DVDs here) |
| 16:22.47 | countdr | So easy to burn Linux to CD |
| 16:22.51 | terr__ | ya - I would do that first - but I suspect no reason to blow away the FAT32 on the 32GB SD card which I will have to replace - when I already have a stack of writeable CD's (and another stack of writeable DVDs) here |
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| 16:23.04 | terr__ | ya - maybe I'll do it. |
| 16:23.25 | terr__ | I bought that DVD burner for a reason. I have only used it once. |
| 16:24.05 | terr__ | Now I find I DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT ONE. there is another which makes permanent DVDs - ones that live forever |
| 16:24.17 | countdr | I don't understand |
| 16:24.24 | terr__ | Only a little bit more expensive. |
| 16:24.33 | terr__ | give me a moment. |
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| 16:34.53 | terr__ | verbatim m disc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-DISC prices: https://www.amazon.com/slp/m-disc-burner/jxx27tw8mf4g6eq |
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| 16:45.46 | Ede|Popede | sounds much like pr bs. i bought only a few dvd-rw and cd-rw, didn't survive too many write cycles. i stopped trusting the industry about what they're telling us how long the discs survive. some weren't even readable after burning, and with dvd i never went above 4x. |
| 16:46.26 | greycat | I had some DVD+RW media that I couldn't even burn *once*, but who knows whether that was the drive or the medium's fault. |
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| 16:48.48 | Ede|Popede | if things have to last, i put it on hdd. if it is for booting or carrying around, i get a stick. the next thing with optical media is the unreliability of the laser. the dvd in this pc sounds like a starting jumbo when i insert a disc, the one the older pc wasn't able to write with more than 2.3x at the end, and i just bought a used dvd player last year because the one i had before stopped reading discs more and more over a time of maybe 2 or 3 years. |
| 16:48.48 | Ede|Popede | at the end it just started making noise to give up after some time |
| 16:49.54 | Ede|Popede | right, the other thing is, you never know what you get. like my external maxtor is a seagate. you gotta insert it and look what the logs tell you, or check a list in advance. |
| 16:50.23 | greycat | The writer in my home machine stopped being able to write, totally. Just makes weird noises and fails in the initial power-up cycle. |
| 16:50.34 | Haohmaru | "Millenniata, Inc. officially went bankrupt in December 2016. Under the direction of CEO Paul Brockbank" .. well no wonder with that last name ;P~ |
| 16:51.02 | Ede|Popede | so it may be some cheap crap, it may be some reliable brand. i've read MANY years ago that the first sets are sold cheap, like kraft&co sell their prodcuts in discounters using a different name |
| 16:51.54 | Ede|Popede | the reason was that until the production machines were adjustet they had an enormous error rate. |
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| 16:53.11 | Ede|Popede | btw, another embarassing moment for commercial software. Nero was only able to burn 2x or 4x. so i started creating ISOs at some point and used some freeware in windows written by a hobbyist (MS pun intended) |
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| 16:54.05 | Ede|Popede | only had some basic actions, but an interface as clean as google search's start page (not the result pages, no...), and most important: it had fractions in speed selection. |
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| 16:54.31 | Ede|Popede | and iirc even autodetection, working really good |
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| 16:59.44 | terr__ | I use to use PD drives. I still have a few. But they cost like $1000 and they _are_ suppose to last at least 50 years. But they are Magneto - optical. |
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| 17:00.12 | terr__ | and SCSI. I have a lot of SCSI equipment. |
| 17:01.00 | terr__ | M disk is suppose to actually BURN A HOLE like is done for commercial recordings. |
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| 17:01.45 | terr__ | for me - a DVD is 4.7. Dual is 8.? my DLT7000 is 70GB and I know those tapes will last. |
| 17:01.58 | dob1 | command that output json |jq |less -R doesn't work.... why? |
| 17:02.21 | greycat | do you even hear yourself... |
| 17:02.27 | terr__ | dob1 ??? |
| 17:02.28 | roswell | dob1, depends on how exactly it's not working |
| 17:02.45 | greycat | you need to give a LOT more information |
| 17:02.58 | terr__ | dob1, can you post the command and the output to termbin? |
| 17:03.13 | dob1 | notmuch show --format=json --entire-thread=false id:some_mail_id |jq |less -R |
| 17:03.17 | dob1 | *id= |
| 17:03.34 | dob1 | not ouput |
| 17:03.37 | greycat | at the very least you have to tell us what the jq argument is |
| 17:03.57 | greycat | it's like saying "why doesn't my command work foo|sed|bar" and then not telling us what argument you gave to sed. |
| 17:04.00 | dob1 | if I do notmuch show --format=json --entire-thread=false id:some_mail_id |jq it formats the json output |
| 17:04.06 | terr__ | greycat, its suppose to be an executable. |
| 17:04.09 | dob1 | it's when I pipe it to less the problem |
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| 17:04.18 | greycat | jq is like sed. you give it a program as an argument. |
| 17:04.29 | greycat | the program is typically used to extract one piece of the JSON data stream |
| 17:05.20 | terr__ | greycat, I have never heard of it. But then I never heard of fold neither. nor why one would want to use it for "long" strings when all one needs to do is translate the EOF chars |
| 17:05.25 | dob1 | I was using it to format json to have a more readable output |
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| 17:05.48 | dob1 | maybe I am using the wrong tool? |
| 17:06.16 | greycat | Who knows? You aren't giving us any way to reproduce your issue. Maybe talk to the #jq channel if you're struggling with jq. |
| 17:07.14 | terr__ | jq does not exist in my system. |
| 17:07.19 | greycat | ,info jq |
| 17:07.20 | judd | Package jq (utils, optional) in buster/amd64: lightweight and flexible command-line JSON processor. Version: 1.5+dfsg-2+b1; Size: 58.0k; Installed: 101k; Homepage: https://github.com/stedolan/jq |
| 17:07.57 | roswell | dob1, try json_pp instead |
| 17:08.08 | dob1 | ok this is a test: curl -s "http://api.icndb.com/jokes/random" |jq works http://api.icndb.com/jokes/random" |jq |less -R doesn't work |
| 17:08.27 | terr__ | greycat, as I recall he piped into less and did not give less an an argument |
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| 17:08.40 | terr__ | greycat, as I recall he piped into less and did not give less as an argument |
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| 17:09.11 | Ede|Popede | dob1: in such situations i usually save both and compare mysef what could be wrong |
| 17:09.15 | dob1 | roswell, I like the fact that jq uses colored output, it helps a lot, there is python -m json.tool |
| 17:09.25 | Ede|Popede | the AI in debian isn't *that* developed yet |
| 17:09.27 | greycat | wooledg:~$ curl -s http://api.icndb.com/jokes/random | jq | less -R |
| 17:09.27 | greycat | jq - commandline JSON processor [version 1.5-1-a5b5cbe] |
| 17:09.28 | greycat | Usage: jq [options] <jq filter> [file...] |
| 17:09.52 | greycat | You have to GIVE jq A FILTER ARGUMENT |
| 17:10.11 | terr__ | dob1, how does jq output? is it writing to stdout? |
| 17:10.21 | dob1 | greycat, I am not sure about this, try curl -s http://api.icndb.com/jokes/random | jq it works |
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| 17:10.29 | dob1 | terr__, yes |
| 17:10.30 | greycat | *plonk* |
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| 17:11.06 | terr__ | dob1, can you use > and write it to a file? |
| 17:11.12 | terr__ | then less the file? |
| 17:11.37 | dob1 | terr__, no it doesn't work, same problem like the one with less |
| 17:11.40 | Ede|Popede | dob1: the only thing that doesn't work for me is the missing coloring with less. but has the usual reason |
| 17:11.40 | greycat | OK, further testing reveals that you can apparently omit the filter argument if and only if jq's output is a terminal. Which is NOT THE CASE HERE, and is NOT DOCUMENTED IN THE USAGE ERROR THAT YOU GET WHEN YOU RUN HIS PIPELINE. |
| 17:11.52 | terr__ | can someone help me get rid of the timeout on this stupid machine. |
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| 17:12.19 | greycat | I don't know how a person can read "Usage: jq [options] <jq filter> [file...]" and think "Oh hey, I can just omit the <jq filter> part" and claim to be a Unix user. |
| 17:12.34 | terr__ | Its totally default stretch and I do not excpect to even install stretch in a working system. But I need to use it for now. |
| 17:12.52 | terr__ | greycat, I am sure I have done worse. |
| 17:12.58 | greycat | I also don't know how a person can run a command that generates an ENTIRE SCREEN FULL OF ERROR MESSAGE and claim that it "doesn't work" and not bother mentioning the fact that there's a whole screen full of error. |
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| 17:13.50 | greycat | Maybe if he (I'm assuming a being this dumb has to be male) would actually READ THE ERROR THAT jq PRODUCED, which explains how to use jq, including the simple "identity filter" option, it would help him. |
| 17:13.53 | dob1 | ok this works as greycat said curl -s "http://api.icndb.com/jokes/random" |jq . |less -R but, I don't know why, I lost the ansi output |
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| 17:14.08 | dob1 | . as filter for not filtering nothing |
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| 17:14.44 | Ede|Popede | not sure what jq i have installed exactly, it's /usr/local/bin/jq-linux64 reported as v1.6, maybe just got it from source because it was newer and something worked on it at that point that didn't with the repo version. but: it doesn't ask for any filter (mentions '.' as most simple one tho), so foo | jq-linux64 | less or jq-linux64 <in >out work fine |
| 17:15.12 | greycat | that's post-buster |
| 17:15.15 | Ede|Popede | all it needs for less -R is its -C option to keep the colors even in the pipe |
| 17:15.23 | terr__ | greycat, then how can I fins a bag on my coffee table and comment: I wonder what is in that bag. Pick it up and comment: Oh! Its my new Raspberry pi ad comment - I should put it away. Then... a week later have to spend 3 hours looking in my office and not finding it untill eventually I am in the living room and haveing no where else to look - take the lid off a CLEAR PLASTIC BOX and find it! |
| 17:16.26 | dob1 | I tested this, script file.script then curl -s "http://api.icndb.com/jokes/random" |jq . and the output has ansi escape, so why the |less -R lost them... |
| 17:16.32 | greycat | Ede|Popede: and a <jq filter> |
| 17:16.36 | Ede|Popede | btw, ls --color=always, probably some more examples around in linux world |
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| 17:17.32 | Ede|Popede | greycat, may be upstream has changed in the meantime, but my version works fine like this > curl -s "http://api.icndb.com/jokes/random" | jq-linux64 -C | less -R |
| 17:17.37 | greycat | with the buster version of jq, wooledg:~$ echo '{"foo":1}' | jq | cat produces the usage error |
| 17:17.37 | francis_murtagh | hi, if i build a package with shared libraries in /usr/lib/<package>/ instead of /usr/lib/ how can i make it visible once the package is installed without having to manually update the LD_LIBRARY_PATH |
| 17:18.16 | dob1 | Ede|Popede, you get colored output with less? |
| 17:18.19 | greycat | Note how I say things like "it produces an error", not "it doesn't work". |
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| 17:18.48 | greycat | Also note how I give the ACTUAL COMMAND that I used to produce said error. |
| 17:18.49 | Ede|Popede | dob1: the help output (again, at least on my version) mentions -C |
| 17:19.18 | greycat | echo '{"foo":1}' | jq . | cat gives black-and-white output |
| 17:19.25 | greycat | echo '{"foo":1}' | jq -C . | cat gives colored output |
| 17:19.25 | terr__ | greycat, I went to the store to get stuff for tacos. EG - we have cheese. I count to 3. I need three (3) things. I can remember that. ok: Tomato. Hamburger. And I scratch my head. I KNOW there are three (3) things to get. Oh! Right. Tacos. I might need taco shells. |
| 17:19.50 | Ede|Popede | usually i need it just for formatting, default JSON is worse than spaghetti code from the 90s |
| 17:20.28 | greycat | Usually when I see jq questions, it's in #bash, and people are using it to extract fields from JSON, not to format it for eyeballs. |
| 17:20.30 | dob1 | Ede|Popede, indeed it works with -C... you right, but it's strange imho |
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| 17:20.51 | greycat | This whole "I am too dumb to read the error message I just got, help me" level is a new low for me. |
| 17:20.57 | Ede|Popede | dob1: why, ls acts the same, in pipes colors are lost per default |
| 17:21.35 | terr__ | greycat, I lost my phone one time. It was in my hand. |
| 17:21.38 | dob1 | greycat, it's not for eyeball, it helps readability |
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| 17:22.23 | Ede|Popede | b1ack0p, still bored? what about finding more commands which lose their coloured output when used with pipes and redirections? (like jq and ls do) |
| 17:22.30 | terr__ | How to I disable a timeout. This is default stretch. whatever screen manager stretch uses... and I have not checked which one. Its just default. |
| 17:22.32 | dob1 | Ede|Popede, I was not sure about this |
| 17:22.38 | greycat | Ede|Popede: git |
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| 17:23.44 | Ede|Popede | greycat: my version? may be, but i don't have git installed, so if, then just plain zip downloand. just for the sake of clarity, i'll check my downloads of that time |
| 17:24.15 | greycat | Ede|Popede: no... git is an example of a program with colored output that drops the colors when stdout is not a tty |
| 17:24.43 | greycat | GNU grep, also |
| 17:24.53 | dob1 | taskwarrior too now that I think about this behaviour |
| 17:24.58 | Ede|Popede | indeed https://github.com/stedolan/jq/releases/download/jq-1.6/jq-linux64 |
| 17:25.03 | Ede|Popede | greycat: ah :) |
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| 17:27.00 | Ede|Popede | i wish curl would also check its destination... happened more than once to torment my terminal with its binary output because i forgot -o while concentrating on the other things in the command line :/ |
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| 17:36.47 | dob1 | greycat, I read your previous messages, you right I was not paying attentions at the error messages, so my bad for sure |
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| 17:40.53 | jhutchins_wk | showmount -e returns shares with a list of IP addresses. Are those active mounts, or access rights? |
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| 17:44.15 | ctcx | greycat: I tried to add group write permissions to a directory with ACLs, with "chmod -R g+w". Command succeeded without error but the change was not applied. I had to remove ACLs first (setfacl -Rb), chmod g+w again, then add ACLs again. |
| 17:44.18 | ctcx | Is this expected? |
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| 17:53.45 | nerditup | Hey |
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| 17:54.34 | b1ack0p | Ede|Popede: what kind of commands? O.o |
| 17:54.48 | ctcx | jelly: do you happen to know stuff about posix permissions and ACLs? |
| 17:55.04 | greycat | !ask |
| 17:55.04 | dpkg | If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>. |
| 17:55.11 | Ede|Popede | b1ack0p: jq and ls don't use colors with redirections per default ;) |
| 17:55.17 | greycat | "Don't ... pick one person to ask ..." |
| 17:55.39 | b1ack0p | didnt know that :p |
| 17:55.40 | Ede|Popede | b1ack0p: i thought since you're bored so often i'd help you getting rid of it ;) |
| 17:55.47 | b1ack0p | lol thx |
| 17:56.10 | b1ack0p | someone tried to teach me php-sql to get rid of boredom otherday |
| 17:56.22 | b1ack0p | but i was lazy reading tutorials so he gave up teaching i guess :/ |
| 17:56.29 | b1ack0p | i couldnt concentrate at all |
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| 18:04.50 | mindlessmiss | hi how can i add sudo to my account? [sudo] password for xmelzax: |
| 18:04.50 | mindlessmiss | xmelzax is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported. |
| 18:04.50 | mindlessmiss | xmelzax@Thinkcentre-ethernet:~$ su |
| 18:04.50 | mindlessmiss | Password: |
| 18:04.50 | mindlessmiss | root@Thinkcentre-ethernet:/home/xmelzax# sudo adduser xmelzax sudo |
| 18:04.50 | mindlessmiss | The user `xmelzax' is already a member of `sudo'. |
| 18:04.50 | *** kick/#debian [mindlessmiss!~debhelper@unaffiliated/debhelper] by debhelper (flood) |
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| 18:05.23 | mindlessmiss | sorry for flood |
| 18:05.27 | joepublic | one way is with visudo |
| 18:05.28 | greycat | mindlessmiss: you need to log out and back in to pick up the new groups |
| 18:05.45 | joepublic | ah, missed the group. |
| 18:06.25 | mindlessmiss | are you talking to me joepublic |
| 18:06.35 | b1ack0p | mindlessmiss: sudo adduser user .. |
| 18:06.37 | joepublic | ignore me and listen to grey.cat please |
| 18:06.42 | mindlessmiss | I did that |
| 18:06.55 | b1ack0p | then logout |
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| 18:07.12 | mindlessmiss | hmm ok I'll try again, thanks brb |
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| 18:07.52 | b1ack0p | okk |
| 18:07.56 | jehorn | Yeah, just do as suggested sudo visudo then put something like username ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL or something underneath the root entry |
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| 18:08.13 | afidegnum | is debian 10 available in production? |
| 18:08.33 | greycat | jehorn: there's no need to do that in Debian. Debian provides a line like that for the sudo group. Just add yourself to that group, and you have unrestricted sudo access. |
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| 18:08.49 | greycat | !buster |
| 18:08.49 | dpkg | Buster is the codename for the current <stable> release, Debian 10, released 2019-07-06. "Buster" is Andy's pet Dachshund in Toy Story, see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianBuster . Ask me about <install buster>, <release notes>, <stretch->buster>. <apt suite changed> |
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| 18:09.21 | greycat | Buster (Debian 10) was released last summer, and has had 3 point releases so far. |
| 18:09.42 | mindlessmiss | thank yyou guys greycat joepublic b1ack0p it's working now |
| 18:10.29 | joepublic | phenomenal cosmic power. |
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| 18:11.05 | afidegnum | can i start using it in production? |
| 18:11.16 | greycat | yes |
| 18:11.59 | afidegnum | ok |
| 18:12.04 | jehorn | Buster is the latest release, it's stable. |
| 18:12.15 | afidegnum | ok |
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| 18:15.26 | annadane | some people like to wait until x.1 or x.2 but you can basically start using stable upon release |
| 18:15.44 | greycat | we're up to buster.3 now, so those two hurdles are long past us |
| 18:15.45 | annadane | x.1 is probably enough to get rid of most of the bugs |
| 18:16.26 | JustASlacker | what does the "clean" file do in a debian package ? |
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| 18:25.33 | Akuw_ | i have a file, and inside that file there is a binary digit. I need to convert from binary to decimal |
| 18:26.00 | greycat | Please give us an example of what you mean by "binary digit". Also, is that the ONLY thing in the file, or do you have to extract it? |
| 18:26.30 | greycat | Uh... also, do you mean in the file's *name* or in the file's *content*? |
| 18:27.14 | Akuw_ | if i use "xxd -b cont.no" i get "00000000: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000001 ...." |
| 18:27.25 | Akuw_ | but i need decimal format |
| 18:27.51 | chmykh | Hello dear Debian users! Is it true Debian is most popular and big distro in the world? |
| 18:27.54 | greycat | Is the entire file 4 bytes long? |
| 18:28.15 | Akuw_ | yes |
| 18:28.21 | greycat | Also, is this 4-byte integer in big endian format, or little endian format? |
| 18:28.38 | greycat | (I'm guessing big endian, but ...) |
| 18:29.18 | mindlessmiss | what's the best file system to format a partition I would like to share between my win10 and debian dual boot setup? Eg I hope to have C:\Users\xxx and ~/home/xxx. both pointing to the same partition. Haven't really messed with linux in the past 5-10 years or so and I guess there are better/new/improved file systems nowadays.. which if any work reliably with both win10 and debian? or any reeason not to do it this way and just have 2 seperate |
| 18:29.18 | mindlessmiss | locations synced |
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| 18:32.04 | Akuw_ | greycat: i dont know |
| 18:32.41 | jhutchins_wk | mindlessmiss: ntfs is the only thing that Windows understands. |
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| 18:33.30 | greycat | Akuw_: is this what you want? http://paste.wooledge.org/1554 |
| 18:33.37 | jhutchins_wk | Akuw_: If that's on a standard ext filesystem on AMD64 Linux, the decimal value is 1. |
| 18:34.15 | greycat | jhutchins_wk: if we assume it's a big-endian 32-bit int, then yeah. That's what I'm guessing. |
| 18:34.28 | greycat | has nothing to do with file systems |
| 18:34.42 | Akuw_ | perl -e '$x = <STDIN>; print unpack("N",$x), "\n"' |
| 18:34.47 | Akuw_ | works for me |
| 18:35.19 | Akuw_ | is there another way using some linux command? |
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| 18:35.25 | greycat | *plonk* |
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| 18:36.07 | petn-randall | Akuw_: perl is not a "linux command"? |
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| 18:36.35 | Akuw_ | is a Programming Language |
| 18:36.35 | greycat | is gcc a linux command? you could write it in C instead of perl. |
| 18:36.54 | Akuw_ | i mean, using xxd ? |
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| 18:39.23 | petn-randall | Akuw_: If xxd can do that, the man page will tell you. |
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| 18:40.01 | jmd | So I've just downloaded debian-10.3.0-i386-netinst.iso, copied it to an device, booted from that device. Very shortly it asks me where my CDrom drive is. I don't have one, and thus the installation refuses to proceed. |
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| 18:40.39 | jmd | Actually, I haven't seen a machine wiht a CDROM drive for several years. How do I install debian on a machine without one? |
| 18:41.40 | Akuw_ | man xxd |
| 18:41.41 | greycat | Hmm, my perl thing fails if the input file contains a newline byte... I am really bad at perl. :( |
| 18:41.51 | Akuw_ | hehehehe |
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| 18:42.15 | mindlessmiss | hmm ok well does linux and ntfs play nice together nowadays? like back when I used to use both I often had trouble with windows often refusing to mount ntfs drives that has been improperly unmounted in linux or vice versa.. I'm assuming..well hoping that now 15 years later there has been simprovement |
| 18:42.45 | mindlessmiss | jmb with a usb stick |
| 18:43.02 | jmd | Yes. and how does that help? |
| 18:43.09 | petn-randall | mindlessmiss: Windows 10 will not unmount the drive when you shut down, it actually hibernates. Making your dual boot idea more difficult. |
| 18:43.37 | mindlessmiss | you puyt the iso on a usb stick and boot the pc from that |
| 18:43.42 | PaddyF | you can hit "shift" when you reboot or shutdown. it wont hibernate then |
| 18:43.48 | jmd | That's what I have done. |
| 18:43.52 | petn-randall | jmd: Sounds like you didn't prepare the image properly. Which tools did you use for that? |
| 18:43.57 | mindlessmiss | petn-randall, i can get rid of hibernate |
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| 18:44.22 | jmd | I just downloaded it from the website, copied it to a stick and booted from it. |
| 18:44.26 | petn-randall | mindlessmiss: Then you still have the problem that NTS can't do unix file permissions. |
| 18:44.32 | greycat | this one works with newlines in the input file: perl -e 'read STDIN, $x, 4; print unpack("N",$x), "\n"' < bar |
| 18:44.41 | petn-randall | jmd: *How* did you copy it to the stick? |
| 18:44.45 | jmd | dd |
| 18:44.48 | mindlessmiss | actually jmd i had the same issue recently, I think that using DD mode in rufus did the trick |
| 18:44.55 | jmd | what else would you have done? |
| 18:45.19 | mindlessmiss | or try the other one, not DD |
| 18:45.23 | petn-randall | jmd: Did you dd it to the naked block device, or the first partition? |
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| 18:45.34 | jmd | the naked device. |
| 18:45.41 | petn-randall | mindlessmiss: rufus is usually a bad choice. |
| 18:45.43 | petn-randall | !rufus |
| 18:45.43 | dpkg | rufus is a tool that can be used to make bootable USB devices under Windows. Debian CD/DVD images MUST be written in "DD Mode," otherwise it mangles the installer in cruel and unusual ways, resulting in hard to debug problems. Ask me about <hybrid images>, <usb install>, <win32diskimager>. |
| 18:45.45 | jmd | mindlessmiss: rufus mode? |
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| 18:46.35 | mindlessmiss | ok sorry petn-randall , I prefer it over others I have used as I have old ass PC with MBR as well as a newer one |
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| 18:49.16 | terr__ | dob1, its easy to miss the obvious when you are in the swamp so to speak up to your neck and you don't know what to look for. |
| 18:49.53 | jmd | reboots and tries again |
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| 18:49.57 | greycat | does a screen full of a usage error count as obvious? |
| 18:51.31 | terr__ | greycat, how about my phone in my hand? |
| 18:51.59 | terr__ | I have the screen lock problem solved. :-) trivial. as in obvious. |
| 18:52.42 | greycat | perpetual motion bird on the ctrl key? |
| 18:54.33 | terr__ | Rufus is not installed in this system. I can get it - but I don't know why I would want it. I pasted the contents of /boot/grub here: http://termbin.com/3zid <---- looks like EFI images. the computer does not support EFI. ...and I have not tried to install it. |
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| 18:56.39 | openbsdtai123 | Does Intel + Microsoft will erradicate Legacy boot in the future? Maybe Debian should make deals with Microsoft to keep legacy alive. Giving and taking. |
| 18:57.08 | greycat | isn't that really in the hands of the motherboard/firmware makers? |
| 18:57.42 | terr__ | openbsdtai123, I doubt it is possible to make a deal with the ev empire |
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| 18:59.54 | terr__ | openbsdtai123, I actually did find the install media for NT4.0 So it is possible that older versions like windows 7 may still be available - its just they will not be updated from what I can tell. |
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| 19:02.17 | mindlessmiss | so for the third time in as many hours this pc with a fresh install of debian netinstall has just suddenlyhad the screen go standby and the PC seems to also.. pressing keys etc does nothing but if I press the power button it wakes up immediatly (like instant, it never went to actual sleep coz otherwise it'd take way longer to comeback) but the ethernet drops immediatly and I cannot get it back up until I do a full reboot. any suggestions on where |
| 19:02.17 | mindlessmiss | to begin to try to figure out what's going on |
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| 19:02.31 | openbsdtai123 | terr__: it is possible because MS want Linux now. |
| 19:02.56 | openbsdtai123 | Microsoft will take Linux to his code source - it started already to eat linux like nothing. |
| 19:03.13 | openbsdtai123 | It would be time to accept to collaborate with Microsoft. |
| 19:03.31 | terr__ | mindlessmiss, just a wild ass(embler) guess - what of your "hot" key? |
| 19:03.36 | provocateur | NO collaboration with GPL |
| 19:03.42 | provocateur | fuck microsoft |
| 19:04.21 | mindlessmiss | terr__, I dont have any hot keys asfaik, I know I definately did not accidentaly hit anything |
| 19:04.45 | terr__ | openbsdtai123, nope. I suspect nobody will do it. And Microsoft has had source code available all along - and I was told the original Internet TCP/IP stacks were borrowed from OpenBSD |
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| 19:05.16 | greycat | it would have been plain BSD, not Open or Net or Free |
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| 19:05.48 | jhutchins_wk | petn-randall: Don't you just disable fastboot to keep it from hibernating? |
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| 19:06.13 | ratrace | terr__: openbsd did not even exist then |
| 19:06.18 | terr__ | damn. I left clicked on debian-10.3.0-i386-netinst.iso. Here it comes via this stupid browser. left click is not suppose to download the file. |
| 19:06.57 | terr__ | ratrace, it did because I was using it. The headquarters are here. I happen to know theo |
| 19:07.21 | terr__ | this was back in the windows 3.1 days. |
| 19:07.26 | mindlessmiss | wow, cool |
| 19:07.44 | greycat | "Windows 3.1, made generally available on March 1, 1992," |
| 19:08.00 | greycat | " Theo de Raadt created OpenBSD in 1995 " |
| 19:08.11 | terr__ | ratrace, greycat ya - I have it - looked at it and bought a copy of OS/2 |
| 19:08.15 | greycat | both from wikipedia, separate pages |
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| 19:08.59 | terr__ | greycat, then we need to check when windows got internet access. I never did anything with the internet until about 1997. |
| 19:09.12 | terr__ | and I started with OpenBSD on my servers and firewalls. |
| 19:09.37 | ratrace | terr__: negative. windows TCP stack is based on berkeley sockets which originated in 4.2BSD unix, long long time before OpenBSD was forked |
| 19:09.40 | terr__ | greycat, I never actually checked any dates... on this. |
| 19:09.44 | mindlessmiss | what did you serve with your servers |
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| 19:10.40 | terr__ | ratrace, I would think the OpenBSD fork would have used the same code stack. So I am corrected - not "openBSD" stack but "BSD" stack. WHen did FreeBSD fork() |
| 19:10.59 | greycat | OpenBSD forked from NetBSD, I believe. Not sure about Free. |
| 19:11.02 | terr__ | mindless - its still running - www.onon.org |
| 19:11.10 | terr__ | if for our running club. |
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| 19:11.21 | terr__ | its for our running club. |
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| 19:12.16 | ratrace | freebsd and netbsd have common ancestor. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/77/Unix_history-simple.svg/1920px-Unix_history-simple.svg.png?1581534708844 |
| 19:12.18 | terr__ | the discussion seemed to go something like they needed TCP/IP in OS/2 so used the *BSD code |
| 19:12.57 | terr__ | myconnection is pretty good - I'll have yet anotehr copy of buster |
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| 19:14.09 | terr__ | what I do NOT want to do is burn a CD. I can. I can use an SD as well. I would like to be able to install from a running copy of linux and in this case Stretch. I expect to have to do this fairly often. |
| 19:14.37 | greycat | !debootstrap |
| 19:14.38 | dpkg | debootstrap can create a basic Debian system from scratch, without apt/dpkg. Useful for installing in a <chroot>. It is key to installing Debian GNU/Linux from a Unix/Linux system, ask me about <install guide>. http://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap https://debian-administration.org/article/426/Installing_new_Debian_systems_with_debootstrap |
| 19:14.50 | terr__ | I have a Raspberry pi and will need to install Raspian (most likely) and I may need custom kernels. |
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| 19:15.03 | terr__ | greycat, already done. |
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| 19:15.58 | mindlessmiss | terr__, cool im still trying to figure out the definition of hash |
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| 19:17.18 | mindlessmiss | oh duh ok nvm |
| 19:17.38 | terr__ | its our runing club - we started in Kuala Lumpur in 1938. We are world wide. |
| 19:17.39 | openbsdtai123 | terr__: I am master of rpi3b ;) |
| 19:17.54 | terr__ | great. |
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| 19:17.58 | openbsdtai123 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:18.00 | terr__ | I have a 4B. |
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| 19:18.16 | openbsdtai123 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:18.44 | openbsdtai123 | 4b meets raspbian new or netbsd ;) |
| 19:18.54 | mindlessmiss | terr__, sounds fun i'd prob drop dead if I even attempted to jog a fewmetres |
| 19:19.47 | terr__ | openbsdtai123, I have to get these old laptops installed - then - I install Debian into the 64 bit towers (I have two of them as well as these two laptops) and THEN... get USB 3 running on a proper docking station (not hub - dockings stations do a LOT more and cost about the same) and THEN... get at my pi. |
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| 19:21.40 | openbsdtai123 | I would use devuan for older hardware - it runs much faster than debian. |
| 19:22.17 | openbsdtai123 | the pi is good - but beware that it is not opensource. |
| 19:22.31 | openbsdtai123 | If you want reallly opensource, there are much better boards. |
| 19:22.47 | openbsdtai123 | Anyhow linux kernel is no longer opensource - completely. |
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| 19:23.27 | terr__ | mindlessmiss, I can't do it now. walking for 40 minutes? I'm in bed for a day. |
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| 19:24.25 | terr__ | openbsdtai123, I do not really expect to use these laptops... only If I need to tote a computer somewhere. |
| 19:25.07 | terr__ | I did not know about the opensource issues with the pi. I can return it. |
| 19:25.15 | terr__ | box is not opened. |
| 19:25.31 | openbsdtai123 | ah... old laptops, I use them usually for freebsd - for monitoring, networking,... file server especially. |
| 19:25.39 | terr__ | I just need a reason to do so. WE happen to buy a lot from the vendor. |
| 19:26.06 | terr__ | openbsdtai123, I use them because I bought them for $550 bux each |
| 19:26.09 | terr__ | openbsdtai123, I use them because I bought them for $50 bux each |
| 19:26.18 | openbsdtai123 | well, to go arm board opensource, it needs more experience and probably BSD knowledge. A RPI 3 or 4 runs well xfce4 or raspbian. |
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| 19:27.23 | terr__ | I may end up (likely WILL) end up with code in the machine... in fact I think I know what code and it runs in both BSD and Linux. |
| 19:27.28 | openbsdtai123 | the PI are good with raspbian, besides it is slow with gaming 3d like with beautiful graphics. retropie works well. |
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| 19:28.07 | terr__ | I have no interest in that. I need to pick up async messages from CNC controllers. |
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| 19:32.21 | terr__ | I can use fork() and GLibc functions like select() for this. Hopefully its all there. |
| 19:32.50 | terr__ | openbsdtai123, I had that code running before 2000 |
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| 19:33.06 | terr__ | I've been away from the keyboard for a while. |
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| 19:34.39 | terr__ | well I did not expect this. windows decided to mount the .iso... so now I know I can look at it in windows... not that I care much. |
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| 19:46.23 | paulmz | hi i have a nice debian setup. i installed 10.2 from live iso a few weeks ago, have upgraded packages but also installed a bunch of new ones. i want to reinstall, is there a way to get a list of everything i have installed that was not in the base distro? tx |
| 19:46.43 | greycat | there's no need to *separate* the list into pieces. |
| 19:46.53 | greycat | just "dpkg --get-selections > a_file" |
| 19:47.12 | greycat | !debian clone |
| 19:47.12 | dpkg | One method of cloning Debian installs is to take a current Debian machine that is set up with the packages you want and run the command "dpkg --get-selections > ~/selectionfile". Then, after the base install on other machines use that file and do: "dpkg --set-selections < ~/selectionfile && apt-get dselect-upgrade". Also ask me about <aptitude clone>, <reinstall>, <things to backup> <apt-clone>. |
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| 19:52.44 | terr__ | Who is the anal retentive who dreamed up in KDE that we can flip the display upside down? |
| 19:53.04 | greycat | someone with a laptop or tablet, most likely |
| 19:53.09 | terr__ | I am short of desk space. I can hang it from the ceiling. |
| 19:53.45 | terr__ | Damn - now Kirsten Dunst has nothing on us! We can be upside down too. |
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| 19:58.27 | jhutchins_wk | A co-worker has a sticker that says "Linux is user friendly. It's just very picky about who it's friends are." |
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| 19:58.47 | greycat | I hope they fix the spelling of its. |
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| 20:00.55 | mindlessmiss | was quite common on some graphics card software in windows having a hotkey that flipped the screen upsidedown accidentally pressed by unsuspecting user |
| 20:01.14 | jhutchins_wk | I believe that's the correct contraction of "it is". |
| 20:01.27 | mindlessmiss | lol |
| 20:01.29 | greycat | the second one should be its. |
| 20:01.33 | jhutchins_wk | Oh, second its. Yes sticker is correct. |
| 20:01.53 | jhutchins_wk | Human is incorrect. |
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| 20:06.51 | terr__ | its is quite possesive |
| 20:07.04 | terr__ | and I can't spell. |
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| 20:11.04 | mindlessmiss | theirs no excuse for you're mistakes |
| 20:11.15 | annadane | *twitch* |
| 20:11.39 | mindlessmiss | go back too school |
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| 20:16.24 | annadane | skool* |
| 20:16.48 | _DeLa_ | Is there a way to purge unused kernels with a terminal command WITHOUT knowing the exact kernel name on Debian 10? So just a terminal command I can run every now and then to check for and the automatically purge unused kernels? |
| 20:17.07 | terr__ | annadane, are you Norwegian? |
| 20:17.19 | greycat | I think "apt autoremove" is supposed to keep only 2 kern images by default |
| 20:17.39 | terr__ | greycat, we could be crass and say just rm |
| 20:17.55 | annadane | _DeLa_, you can always look in /boo |
| 20:17.56 | annadane | t |
| 20:18.18 | annadane | and then it's linux-image-4.whatever |
| 20:18.22 | _DeLa_ | greycat: I am using this in my bash script already. Can I change the value of kernels to keep to 0 somehow? |
| 20:18.23 | annadane | or 5, or whatever you're using |
| 20:18.25 | terr__ | sure there is a way. Is the kernel that is running keep its load file open? |
| 20:18.43 | jehorn | I agree with that, look in /boot, easiest to see what kernels are installed |
| 20:19.10 | greycat | take a look at /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01autoremove-kernels |
| 20:19.27 | terr__ | _DeLa_, I have to check this - but I think there is a symlink to the active kernel. |
| 20:19.41 | _DeLa_ | For an overview of what kernels are installed I prefer the following command: dpkg --list | egrep -i --color 'linux-image|linux-headers' |
| 20:19.49 | terr__ | its been over a decade since I built a kernel. |
| 20:20.38 | terr__ | _DeLa_, I am figuring out how to manually install a kernel and then get grub to boot it. |
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| 20:21.22 | jehorn | It's been a while since I've built a kernel too. I usually make sure I keep the previous build around just in case the kernel I built gets jacked up in some way. I just boot the older kernel. |
| 20:21.45 | _DeLa_ | greycat: there it says: DO NOT EDIT! File autogenerated by /etc/kernel/postinst.d/apt-auto-removal |
| 20:21.46 | _DeLa_ | So, checking for that now |
| 20:23.22 | jehorn | I've done some custom builds before, also done Linux From Scratch. Much success with that. |
| 20:23.38 | _DeLa_ | greycat: errmmm...seems out of my league to edit that file ....but I guess ...2 kernels to keep should be ok! |
| 20:24.09 | greycat | yeah, there are no obvious configuration variables to tweak that shell script |
| 20:24.14 | _DeLa_ | I do need every bit of storage I can get with my 32gb netbook, but it still should be ok there ;-) |
| 20:25.22 | greycat | my first guess would be the $previous_version variable that it sets and then uses |
| 20:25.44 | terr__ | jehorn, I have done both OpenBSD and Linux from scratch (well the kernels) - packages - they were fine. |
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| 20:26.27 | greycat | commenting out the line that says previous_version="$(echo ..." might do the trick, but this is *not* a supported edit, so make sure you have a fallback plan |
| 20:26.27 | terr__ | jehorn, all I wanted to do was move the SCSI drivers into the kernel so I did not need to mount them |
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| 20:27.07 | terr__ | WOW - so now I find that Dolphin is accessing the partition tables. It is showing me stuff that is not mounted. |
| 20:27.23 | jehorn | Ah, That's awesome, I've attempted to build NetBSD, I never got around to finishing it. - It was a little more than I expected |
| 20:28.18 | terr__ | I know I am going to have fun with pi. |
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| 20:29.01 | _DeLa_ | greycat: ok, thanks! for now, I'll play it safe and not change anything. Still have about 7GB left on my 32GB netbook. Thanks to Debian ð |
| 20:29.04 | terr__ | there was a multiboot howto that totally spelled out how to set up multiboot using LILO. Is there such a beast for grub? |
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| 20:29.27 | terr__ | delli3_, get yourself an SD card. |
| 20:29.30 | somiaj | _DeLa_: the default is useful if the new kernel fails and makes your machine unbootable |
| 20:29.49 | _DeLa_ | somiaj: I see |
| 20:30.07 | terr__ | clone your system and do it on the removeable media. Having two machines helps as well. |
| 20:30.08 | greycat | terr__: if the os-prober package is installed, every time update-grub runs, it'll search the whole system for various other operating systems and put them in the GRUB menu automatically |
| 20:30.20 | somiaj | _DeLa_: In most cases the current running kernel = current version in debian, or previous version (since you just installed a new kernel) |
| 20:30.47 | terr__ | greycat, so it goes drive by drive... partition by partition... right? |
| 20:30.52 | greycat | yes |
| 20:31.00 | terr__ | okay - perfect! |
| 20:31.11 | somiaj | terr__: there are lots of guids, though grub in debian generates the config file (so you can't just edit the config file). Instead you need to make a script in /etc/grub.d/ to generate the entry. There is a README and some example scripts there you can use. |
| 20:31.13 | terr__ | update-grub didn't work. |
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| 20:31.50 | somiaj | one of those scripts is /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober/ which tries to figure out if you have any other oses (assuming standard installs) |
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| 20:32.26 | terr__ | let me look for the readme. |
| 20:33.09 | somiaj | so if os-prober isn't detecting your other os, you'll have to manually make a script that adds the correct entry to grub to boot it. |
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| 20:38.02 | jehorn | Oh yeah, I almost forgot I had a question myself. Does anyone know if there is a GUI tool for viewing Debian bug lists from the desktop, like not in a browser? |
| 20:38.59 | terr__ | hang on - I am checking things. |
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| 20:39.23 | terr__ | there is no grub.d |
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| 20:39.41 | greycat | there should absolutely be an /etc/grub.d/ directory. |
| 20:39.44 | terr__ | I am looking at the .iso |
| 20:39.53 | greycat | ... on an installed system. |
| 20:40.11 | jehorn | Yeah, there really must be a grub.d dir |
| 20:40.54 | terr__ | and I am not familiar with dolphin. But so far - its not quite as confusing as windows. Issue - showing me partitions which are not mounted. What did it do? Mount them anyways? |
| 20:42.03 | terr__ | So now I know. DOlphin will run executables. |
| 20:42.19 | terr__ | will it brush my teeth as well. |
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| 20:43.25 | terr__ | 1-_linux is a script. lets see what it does. |
| 20:43.35 | terr__ | 10_linux |
| 20:44.12 | terr__ | nice - I had kate on my lap. And she's now playing with a new file. |
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| 20:45.30 | b1ack0p | boooring evening.. |
| 20:47.09 | terr__ | if I run update-grub then the issue is this: The system is running stretch on a USB stick. The one I'm installing is on an HDD. I presume update-grub will update the wrong file. I also have grub.d on the loopback. |
| 20:47.56 | terr__ | time for a break. But no beer until I get this done. |
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| 20:49.13 | noqnio1 | Hi. How do I safely stop unattended-upgrades? It has been running for over an hour, 100% on one core |
| 20:50.39 | noqnio1 | I already disabled it using dpkg reconfigure, but I'm afraid to just kill it |
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| 20:51.05 | digdilem | noqnio1, anything in the logs to say why it's being slow? or is the connection really bad? |
| 20:51.10 | digdilem | it should be safe to kill anyway, though |
| 20:51.12 | somiaj | noqnio1: might depend on where it is in the 'upgrade'. May times if you 'kill an upgrade', you can recover by just running 'dpkg --configure -a' (to configure all partially configured packages) |
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| 20:51.42 | somiaj | killing during the download is fully safe, killing during the install phase is mostly safe, but depending on what you intrrupt could have issues with that particular package. |
| 20:52.03 | digdilem | r .I'd be inclined to be patient and let it run |
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| 20:52.43 | greycat | 100% cpu from "unattended-upgrades" (not one of its grandchildren) is pretty ominous to begin with |
| 20:52.50 | somiaj | the fact that it is using 100% cpu sounds like it is in the install stage, wonder if one of the pre/post install scripts has hit a snag. |
| 20:53.04 | greycat | somiaj: or it's a bug |
| 20:53.12 | digdilem | unless it's a fast machine ,I'd still let it run |
| 20:53.17 | somiaj | yea, I didn't condier that it most likely uses childern to do the actual work. |
| 20:53.23 | greycat | the important question is exactly *what* process is spinning |
| 20:53.39 | digdilem | be surprised if it's a bug, as it's a well used and generally trusted thing |
| 20:53.48 | noqnio1 | last log message was: "2020-02-12 21:07:34,959 WARNING package gdal-bin upgradable but fails to be marked for upgrade" |
| 20:54.10 | noqnio1 | and I issued a kill, and now it spews "WARNING SIGTERM received, will stop" every 3 seconds |
| 20:54.48 | greycat | digdilem: I'm less optimistic. |
| 20:54.50 | noqnio1 | ok damn this, I will kill -9 |
| 20:55.01 | digdilem | have the fire extinguisher handy |
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| 20:55.40 | noqnio1 | Well, lets see how that goes :D |
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| 20:57.11 | jhutchins_wk | digdilem: Did you try a regular kill first? |
| 20:57.20 | jhutchins_wk | It's probably hit something that wants input. |
| 20:57.27 | digdilem | wrong guy, but he did |
| 20:57.30 | Guest11476 | !kill9 |
| 20:57.30 | dpkg | No, no, no! Don't use kill -9. It doesn't give the process a chance to clean up after itself. First try kill -15; then try kill -2; then try kill -1. |
| 20:57.42 | greycat | the SIGTERM error message strongly indicates that a regular kill was performed |
| 20:58.15 | jhutchins_wk | greycat: So it does. |
| 20:58.30 | jhutchins_wk | So yeah, a -0 was in order. |
| 20:58.42 | noqnio1 | ah.. I tried a normal kill, and it got stuck |
| 20:58.42 | jhutchins_wk | So yeah, a -9 was in order. |
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| 20:59.55 | noqnio1 | Okay.. time to go from stable to testing.. Fingers crossed |
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| 21:00.55 | jhutchins_wk | noqnio1: Did you complete the previous upgrade, the one that hung? |
| 21:01.18 | noqnio1 | I don't think it ever started to be honest |
| 21:01.30 | noqnio1 | no complaints from apt-get |
| 21:01.47 | noqnio1 | is seems that unattended-upgrades never executed dpkg either |
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| 21:03.01 | somiaj | noqnio1: seems like a bug in the logic about determining if a package should be upgraded or not |
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| 21:03.23 | somiaj | noqnio1: also I heard 'testing' there, did you have testing in your sources when unattended-upgrades hit this issue? |
| 21:04.03 | noqnio1 | I just changed the pinning and put testing on a higher priority, then it executed at the perfect moment |
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| 21:04.47 | oft_gegong | so what is kill -0? kill -15 -2 -1 -9 #is the proper order? |
| 21:05.38 | greycat | kill -0 in this case was a typo. It's a thing, but it's not relevant to the current discussino. |
| 21:05.54 | somiaj | yea, it really isn't designed for that, if you want to explore this figure, you could see why the logic fails, but maybe it won't get much notice due to using it in a testing upgrade |
| 21:06.00 | greycat | you can get more info about the various signals from "man 7 signal" |
| 21:06.44 | noqnio1 | I get I got unlucky then.. Can I somehow verify that everything is okay before upgrading? Apt does not complain about anything, and dpkg's logs are empty |
| 21:07.04 | jhutchins_wk | dutifully goes and re-reads the manpage. |
| 21:07.41 | somiaj | sounds like unattended-upgrades failed in its logic of figuring out what to upgrade (before even getting to the upgrade), so most likely it did nothing to your system and you are fine. |
| 21:07.41 | greycat | if "apt-get -f install" and "dpkg --configure -a" don't do anything, it's in a clean state |
| 21:08.13 | noqnio1 | looks good! Thanks |
| 21:08.16 | terr__ | when I look at the install CD (buster.iso) I see in /boot/grub only efi stuff. How come no reference to MBR? |
| 21:08.36 | noqnio1 | Does it make sense to trigger the upgrade from a different virtual console? |
| 21:08.51 | greycat | you're MOUNTING a debian installer ISO image?! gods... you're probably not even seeing the whole thing, then. |
| 21:08.55 | noqnio1 | I always have the irrational fear that if the DE crashes it will stop the process |
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| 21:09.07 | greycat | debian installers use a "hybrid iso" format that's 2/3 voodoo |
| 21:09.13 | somiaj | noqnio1: often suggested to upgrade from an actually tty (not virtual console) just incase xorg/screen/tmux/whatever console you are using crashes during th eupgrade |
| 21:09.23 | greycat | this is because people insisted on being able to boot them from USB mass storage devices as well as CDs |
| 21:09.38 | greycat | !debian-boot |
| 21:09.43 | greycat | !d-i |
| 21:09.43 | dpkg | Information about the development of the debian-installer is at the developers page http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ . If you want to make custom install CDs, start with d-i. IRC: #debian-boot on irc.oftc.net. See also <errata>, <g-i>. |
| 21:09.45 | somiaj | terr__: what matters is not what is in /boot/grub, but what grub-install does (does it install grub into the mbr or an efi partition) |
| 21:09.53 | noqnio1 | Awesome, thanks |
| 21:09.57 | greycat | if you're trying to tear apart the debian installer, start there |
| 21:11.19 | terr__ | there are NO EFI partition on this machine. It does not support them. If there are - the machine cannot use them. |
| 21:11.42 | greycat | dpkg, debian-boot is <reply>see d-i |
| 21:11.43 | dpkg | greycat: okay |
| 21:12.12 | somiaj | terr__: sure, which method grub-install uses depends on if using grub-pci or grub-efi, and the installer uses the one based off of how you boot it. If you boot the installer using legacy boot, it will then use grub-pc to put grub in the mbr |
| 21:12.13 | terr__ | somiaj, I am looking at what is on the LiveCD - the install media if I write it to something and boot from it - and it confuses me that I see only EFI stuff. |
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| 21:13.17 | greycat | -live is a *whole* other story |
| 21:13.24 | greycat | !debian-live |
| 21:13.24 | dpkg | The Debian Live project provides pre-built Debian live system images and allows creation of your own. NOT recommended for installing Debian. Live images are available from http://www.debian.org/CD/live/ . https://wiki.debian.org/DebianLive #debian-live on irc.debian.org; also see <live login>, <uefi live>. |
| 21:13.37 | greycat | note that those things each have their OWN separate channel on OFTC |
| 21:13.40 | somiaj | lots of things a live image dose won't translate to what an actually install does. |
| 21:13.42 | terr__ | somiaj, I do not see either grub-pci nor grub-efi |
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| 21:14.00 | somiaj | terr__: I think we have an xy-problem here. What is your actual goal? |
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| 21:16.33 | terr__ | okay - I probably got that mixed up. I downloaded the netinstall package from here: https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/ specifically: debian-10.3.0-i386-netinst.iso |
| 21:16.42 | terr__ | <PROTECTED> |
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| 21:18.26 | terr__ | cd .. |
| 21:18.29 | terr__ | dir -al |
| 21:18.37 | terr__ | wrong computer. |
| 21:20.03 | somiaj | either way, continue, what is your goal? |
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| 21:21.34 | annadane | til "dir" exists |
| 21:22.00 | terr__ | somiaj, I want to install without using external media and booting into it - I should be able to do this without anyting other than populate the HDD. I can run the underlying scripts. Reason. (other than I'm anal) - I expect to have to do this several times. it is a pain to have to go get external media each time I needs to do this. |
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| 21:22.53 | somiaj | terr__: in practice I think people use preseeds with external media (really you just need to download any 10.x installer, and can upgrade from there, so you only have to create one install media). |
| 21:23.08 | jhutchins_wk | terr__: What do you mean by external media? |
| 21:23.09 | somiaj | terr__: though what you are doing, looks up 'install debian with deboostrap' |
| 21:23.18 | somiaj | terr__: 'install debian with debootstrap' |
| 21:23.22 | terr__ | somiaj, I can cd right now into the .iso. and I can run the stuff. I can do a chroot - and maybe I need to... and I can mount /dev/sdc3 |
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| 21:23.47 | somiaj | terr__: you don't want to just 'copy' stuff from the installer, what it sounds like you want to do is use debootstrap from a live image (that is connected to the internet) |
| 21:24.04 | terr__ | I already ran debootstrap. It looks perfect |
| 21:24.11 | somiaj | !fixmbr |
| 21:24.12 | dpkg | To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>. |
| 21:24.48 | somiaj | then basically that above is what you need, chroot into your install, install grub-pc and an apporpriate kernel, then grub-install /dev/whatever to the mbr |
| 21:24.56 | fuxxy | How to copy /mnt/backupfiles/* to /mnt/existingdirectory where the backup files are unique, but the folder structure is identical? |
| 21:24.57 | terr__ | fixmbr |
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| 21:25.15 | somiaj | terr__: /msg dpkg fixmbr if you want a record of that factoid |
| 21:25.31 | terr__ | wrong place - I should have been in dpkg |
| 21:25.36 | greycat | fuxxy: cd /mnt/backupfiles && rsync -av . /mnt/existingdirectory/ |
| 21:25.55 | terr__ | somiaj, its there - I got it. |
| 21:25.58 | somiaj | fuxxy: cp -a or rsync -a (as greycat suggested) can both do the job. rsync is nicer. |
| 21:26.06 | fuxxy | ahh, thanks |
| 21:26.40 | terr__ | somiaj, what throws me (and I am fat) is that I do not see /etc and a few other things I would expect in the .iso. |
| 21:27.05 | somiaj | terr__: the iso is a live system, it does things differently (since it actually is running from a virtual root file system) |
| 21:27.13 | jhutchins_wk | terr__: The structure of the iso is not the same as the structure of a normal install./ |
| 21:27.18 | somiaj | what a live system does will not directly translate to what a normal system will do. |
| 21:27.44 | terr__ | ya - I can see that. |
| 21:28.00 | terr__ | grub-install /dev/sdc <--- note - it searched!!! & didn't work |
| 21:28.00 | terr__ | The file /boot/grub/stage1 not read correctly. |
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| 21:28.23 | terr__ | I did not have the kernel images installed... I can do this. |
| 21:28.23 | somiaj | is /dev/sdc your harddrive or cdrom? |
| 21:28.34 | terr__ | HDD its the target |
| 21:28.54 | somiaj | and you have both grub-pc and a kernel installed inside the chroot? |
| 21:29.02 | terr__ | I have booted from a USB stick and have the .iso on a loopback. |
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| 21:29.16 | greycat | I'm thinking he didn't even chroot yet. |
| 21:29.33 | greycat | i.e. he's running grub-install from the installer |
| 21:29.39 | somiaj | terr__: what does that even have to do with this, the live image, .iso, cd you are booting from shouldn't be a factor here. |
| 21:30.04 | somiaj | and I'm with greycat, you need to chroot into your install, so you are actually using the software inside your install. |
| 21:30.19 | terr__ | http://termbin.com/g622 |
| 21:30.28 | terr__ | ^^ fdisk -l |
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| 21:31.41 | terr__ | somiaj, it should be because its the .iso and its read only. |
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| 21:32.08 | somiaj | ugg, why is my network thinking termbin.com is a security threat...grr |
| 21:32.27 | terr__ | somiaj, liveCD does NOT have anything to do with this. I was confused. I double checked. |
| 21:32.33 | somiaj | terr__: the iso/cd you are booting from (provided it has a compadable kernel which it should) has no bearing on this. |
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| 21:32.44 | terr__ | I can chroot and try it again. |
| 21:32.51 | sponix | somiaj: plain text - reading - must be hacker oriented !! |
| 21:33.17 | somiaj | sponix: yea, I'm sending my network admins an email about it |
| 21:33.21 | terr__ | somiaj, that is exactly what I thought. Its a running copy of linux... as long as the scripts can run they should do the install. |
| 21:33.31 | sponix | somiaj: I wish you luck |
| 21:33.50 | somiaj | but it isn't what you are saying, you are still talking about what is on the cd/iso/whatever. Have you chrooted into your new install? |
| 21:34.16 | terr__ | not yet - Let me do that now. |
| 21:35.13 | sponix | somiaj: he has been at this for like a week or more. must be "very" complicated :P |
| 21:35.39 | terr__ | I have a few things mounted. how do I list the mount points? I want to double check I'm not running the wrong stuff |
| 21:35.47 | somiaj | terr__: did you read the factoid the bot sent, 'chrooting' is an important part of the process. |
| 21:35.59 | terr__ | sponix, na - I'm just not familiar. |
| 21:36.19 | terr__ | well I have it now... I did not know of it before. |
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| 21:42.47 | terr__ | well... bash is not installed. I am surprised but I didn't really check what shell I was using. |
| 21:43.38 | greycat | unpossible |
| 21:43.51 | greycat | bash is "Priority: required" in Debian |
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| 21:44.08 | greycat | and "Essential: yes" because one way to say it is not enough |
| 21:45.24 | Wulf | Hello! Where can I ask/beg for a backport of a package to buster-backports? |
| 21:45.43 | mason | Wulf: Open a bug, or try it yourself - it's not hard. |
| 21:45.58 | somiaj | terr__: sounds like you didn't do the debootstrap part correctly, or aren't actually chrooting into your install. |
| 21:46.08 | somiaj | !ssb |
| 21:46.08 | dpkg | First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>. |
| 21:46.09 | terr__ | hmmm bash is installed. I have the buster.iso loop back mounted on /foo, I believe the command is chroot /foo. If so I get an error '/bin/bash': no such file or directory |
| 21:46.18 | terr__ | let me check further |
| 21:46.27 | somiaj | Wulf: ^^ making one yourself is often the easeist |
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| 21:46.48 | somiaj | terr__: why are you still trying to mess with the iso, don't chroot into the iso, chroot into your actuall install you crated with debootstrap. |
| 21:46.49 | greycat | sounds like the installation into /foo was not performed correctly |
| 21:46.59 | Wulf | mason: packaging it myself isn't an option, I need it in the debian repo. Company policy. |
| 21:47.18 | somiaj | no they are trying to chroot into the isofs on the cdimage, this of course won't work. |
| 21:47.22 | greycat | Oh, I just re-read it. Yeah. You don't chroot into the ISO. You chroot into your INSTALLED DEBIAN SYSTEM. |
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| 21:48.33 | terr__ | but my installed debian system does not yet have even a kernel... so as soon as I chroot (jail it) I can't run anything... AFAIK |
| 21:48.58 | greycat | That's why you were told to mount it, chroot into it, install a kernel, and install grub-pc. |
| 21:49.17 | somiaj | terr__: you don't need a kernel to chroot into it from a running kernel |
| 21:49.34 | somiaj | debootstrap creates a fully functional chroot |
| 21:49.34 | terr__ | bash is in the target directory (IE on the HDD and it lives in /dev/sdc3) |
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| 21:49.51 | somiaj | bash is in your chroot (if you created with with debootstrap) |
| 21:50.01 | somiaj | at some level, you might be better off just using the installer. |
| 21:50.09 | terr__ | ya - good point. its a net install - it likely can go off into cyberspace and find a kernel |
| 21:50.17 | somiaj | no |
| 21:50.27 | terr__ | I used debootstrap - its there |
| 21:50.33 | somiaj | the iso/netinstall/cdimage you are using has no bearing on this as I have said multiple times. |
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| 21:50.56 | terr__ | somiaj, I am catching on. let me chroot into the HDD |
| 21:51.04 | somiaj | all the live image/installer is doing is providing you a running kernel, just chroot into your system, and then work with your system as normal (you are just using the kernel from the iso) |
| 21:51.50 | somiaj | though my suggestion is not go this route. Just use the installer as it is designed to be used, and get more familar with debian and linux before trying to do a debootstrap install. |
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| 21:53.15 | terr__ | YES - chroot is done and it is correct! |
| 21:53.39 | terr__ | somiaj, Its been years. |
| 21:54.16 | terr__ | last time I did this was with lilo and I had to use dd to lift the MBRs and was using CHS addressing |
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| 21:58.09 | somiaj | you are just needing us to describe each and every line in the process multiple times, maybe give yourself some time to gain familarity before attempting this |
| 21:58.17 | somiaj | what? |
| 21:58.26 | terr__ | I think all I need to do now is update-grub followed by grub-install. |
| 21:58.27 | somiaj | even with lilo you woudlnt' have to do all of that for a debootstrap install |
| 21:59.05 | terr__ | I don't think debootstrap existed. Let me read on dual boot. This will take a while. |
| 21:59.18 | somiaj | it did |
| 21:59.38 | somiaj | and so did chroot, you would have just needed to chroot into your install then installed/configured/ran lilo |
| 21:59.45 | terr__ | bbl - I think this is pretty close. |
| 22:00.08 | terr__ | it was in the 1990s |
| 22:00.24 | somiaj | chroots have been around for a long time |
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| 22:00.51 | terr__ | well - let me do some reading. |
| 22:01.07 | terr__ | thanks. I appreciate your patience |
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| 22:40.10 | A|an_ | Doing a whereis for a package and getting <package name> followed by a colon returned...what does the colon mean? |
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| 22:54.15 | fuxxy | I have a folder I compressed using Windows 7zip, when extracted with "7z e filename.7z", I end up with a bunch of compressed files, with the .7z.001 filename extension. What am I forgetting? |
| 22:54.18 | sudomake | hello everyone, how can I stop a program from asking admin password when launched? |
| 22:54.50 | fuxxy | does the program require admin privileges? |
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| 22:55.38 | sudomake | fuxxy, yes |
| 22:56.12 | sudomake | fuxxy, sorry, no, not normally |
| 22:56.36 | fuxxy | you can setuid root the program, but that would allow anyone with execute permissions to run it as root |
| 22:58.18 | fuxxy | sudomake, it would depend on how the program was built. If it's "asking" for root during the runtime, then the program was coded to ask. If it's only asking at execution time, it could be a wrapper script |
| 22:58.29 | fuxxy | What is the program, if you dont mind? |
| 22:58.49 | sudomake | as I said, I launch it and admin pw window pops |
| 22:58.59 | sudomake | fuxxy, sure, it's virt-manager |
| 23:00.22 | fuxxy | with virt-manager, you'll need to create the group 'libvirt' and add your user to that group |
| 23:00.30 | fuxxy | https://computingforgeeks.com/use-virt-manager-as-non-root-user/ |
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| 23:00.53 | sudomake | fuxxy, I remember having read something like that wasn't required anymore with wayland |
| 23:02.01 | _72y9op | Hellow users ! |
| 23:02.56 | sponix | I currently have my rig setup to require no passwords because I am lazy |
| 23:03.16 | sponix | BUT, that took a little research |
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| 23:04.14 | fuxxy | I'm reading about a method involving PolicyKit, that you can adjust to suit your needs |
| 23:04.18 | sponix | fuxxy: you get that archive extraction figured out yet ? |
| 23:04.18 | fuxxy | https://askbot.fedoraproject.org/en/question/45805/how-to-use-virt-manager-as-a-non-root-user/?answer=52968 |
| 23:04.22 | fuxxy | sponix, no |
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| 23:04.54 | sponix | fuxxy: I'd say treating it similar to a multi file rar pack could work |
| 23:05.42 | sponix | fuxxy: Yeah, I have Polkit and sudo both setup to be password-less for my user |
| 23:05.45 | fuxxy | sponix, IIRC, I compressed the top-level folder. Unsure why the individual files are coming up compressed |
| 23:06.00 | sudomake | fuxxy, thank you, adding the user solved it |
| 23:06.35 | sponix | fuxxy: on the rar's you just aim at the head blah.rar for extraction, and it picks up all the file.r01 file.r02 on its own and extracts the whole damn archive |
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| 23:07.14 | sponix | fuxxy: I would guess the 7z one does similar.. you like p7zip -flag blah.7z and see if the rest unfold |
| 23:07.31 | fuxxy | hm. |
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| 23:10.04 | fuxxy | sponix, firstly, they're not rar files, second, I don't have a 'head compressed file'. After the initial EMULATORS.7z is extracted, the subfolders are /all/ filename.7z.001 |
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| 23:14.19 | shiv | Hi all |
| 23:14.22 | shiv | need help :( |
| 23:14.29 | shiv | I am following this to the dot |
| 23:14.30 | shiv | n |
| 23:14.43 | shiv | https://linuxnewbieguide.org/how-to-mount-macos-apfs-disk-volumes-in-linux/ |
| 23:15.04 | shiv | I cannot exec the command at the last step. says apfs-fuse not found |
| 23:15.15 | shiv | I have doen the clean install from github |
| 23:15.19 | shiv | all goes well |
| 23:15.32 | shiv | I am unable to mount the the apfs partiion |
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| 23:16.58 | sponix | https://askubuntu.com/questions/134227/how-to-extract-files-from-a-split-7zip-archive |
| 23:17.09 | sponix | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4273576/how-can-i-extract-multiple-7z-files-in-folder-at-once-in-ubuntu |
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| 23:17.38 | Exagone313 | Hi, I upgraded lxc from 2 to 3 (stretch to buster) and now I get "Failed to set up mount namespacing: Permission denied" errors when some services start inside my lxc container. I disabled apparmor service temporarily (and rebooted) and it's still the same. What else could cause this? lxc container config: https://ewd.xyz/a8e059.txt Thanks for your help. |
| 23:18.14 | sponix | shiv: you should probably be looking for an installing an APFS Fuse package or two. |
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| 23:18.54 | sponix | fuxxy: that is what Google told me, hope it helps |
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| 23:19.01 | greatgatsby | shiv, did you cd into the build directory and then do `sudo cp apfs-* /usr/local/bin`? If so, it /usr/local/bin in your path? |
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| 23:19.52 | fuxxy | sponix, my memory is failing, I *could* have compressed each subfolder separately, then attempted to compress the resulting files into the top folder, but I dont remember |
| 23:19.53 | Exagone313 | if there is a quick way to downgrade to lxc 2 it would be easier also, I got a copy of previous config format |
| 23:20.16 | Exagone313 | (but I think it would make dependency issues) |
| 23:20.19 | shiv | greatgatsby, let me see |
| 23:20.22 | greatgatsby | shiv, you can also just cd into the build dir and do ./apfs-fuse from there |
| 23:20.27 | greatgatsby | as the docs show later |
| 23:20.30 | greatgatsby | is just skimming |
| 23:20.52 | bacoder | when I close my laptop lid, my computer apparently goes to sleep (which is OK) |
| 23:22.03 | bacoder | but when I open the lid back up the screen is off |
| 23:22.34 | bacoder | and there is nothing I can do about it as far as I can see |
| 23:22.52 | Exagone313 | it seems I misunderstood how to disable apparmor, adding apparmor=0 to cmdline |
| 23:23.20 | shiv | greatgatsby, I di dthat. I only see apfs-dump in the build directory |
| 23:23.36 | Exagone313 | and it "fixes" the issue, thanks anyway |
| 23:23.37 | bacoder | can I get some help on that, because it is quite annoying that I need to restart my computer if I happen to forget about it |
| 23:25.09 | greatgatsby | bacoder, does pressing the power button once quickly do anything? I don't have a laptop, and power-managmement is not my thing, so this is just a guess, sorry. |
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| 23:25.53 | greatgatsby | shiv, did your builds all succeed? |
| 23:26.12 | shiv | greatgatsby, yes |
| 23:26.19 | shiv | greatgatsby, no issues there |
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| 23:27.06 | bacoder | greatgatsby: I don't know, but I am pretty sure the machine is 'on' and working and I have keyboard backlight even. I'll try it now, and if I get offline then you know it didn't work.... |
| 23:27.48 | fuxxy | sponix, Apparently that's what I did. After extracting the second-level .7z.001 files, the resulting directory structure is normal |
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| 23:28.43 | sponix | fuxxy: glad you got it figured out |
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| 23:30.00 | fuxxy | And for future reference, compressing all these files didnt help me on my backup scheme. I still needed 14 drives, and the space I saved with 7z was ultimately unneeded, as the last drive had plenty of space |
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| 23:30.40 | sponix | fuxxy: you do you :) |
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| 23:31.21 | sponix | fuxxy: I recently bumped up to 30TB of storage to help avoid such messes |
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| 23:31.26 | bacoder | well |
| 23:32.04 | bacoder | as you saw , it didn't work - If I press the power button quickly then I put the laptop in a 'sleep' state apparently |
| 23:32.30 | fuxxy | sponix, put it this way, I could use another DAS shelf. :) |
| 23:32.41 | bacoder | and if I press the power button quickly once again, I restore it into the 'active' state (I get keyboard backlight and I hear fans and shit) |
| 23:32.54 | bacoder | however ALLWAYS black screen |
| 23:32.58 | bacoder | no matter what I do |
| 23:33.25 | bacoder | so my solution is really pressing the power button for long enouh so I can really poweroff the computer and power it back on again |
| 23:33.32 | sponix | fuxxy: for some people - like myself ... No amount of storage space will ever be Enough |
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| 23:33.45 | bacoder | And I am using debian buster |
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| 23:36.47 | bacoder | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/200125/debian-8-jessie-laptop-stops-working-after-closing-the-laptop-lid <- I could try this |
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| 23:51.13 | urxtnw | I've recently switched to Debian from Ubuntu. I have an issue: I had a windows 7 Virtualbox .vdi file and I just read virtualbox is not secure in Debian and not in the repos. I can't seem to find a way to convert from .vdi to .qcow2 without Virtualbox |
| 23:52.04 | sponix | urxtnw: there is a way to convert, think its qemu-tools package giving you that |
| 23:52.36 | sponix | urxtnw: But, I run vbox on something near Debian, and haven't noticed any problems |
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| 23:53.52 | bacoder | urxtnw: lol wtf? not secure? |
| 23:53.58 | bacoder | urxtnw: why would that be? |
| 23:54.45 | terr__ | well this is strange. update-grub and grub-install are not present. apt-get install does not find them. clearly I am doing something wrong |
| 23:55.24 | urxtnw | sponix, thanks you |
| 23:55.28 | ratrace | bacoder: urxtnw: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=794466 |
| 23:55.29 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/794466 in src:virtualbox (open, stretch, buster, bullseye, sid): «virtualbox: might not be suitable for stable releases due to lack of cooperation from upstream on security support for older releases»; severity: serious; opened: 2015-08-03; last modified: 2019-09-28. |
| 23:55.40 | ratrace | so it was dropped. |
| 23:56.07 | urxtnw | ratrace, I was just about to paste that haha |
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| 23:56.41 | urxtnw | I wanted to say that I did a debian minimal install and it's so snappy even with gnome. It's really awesome |
| 23:56.52 | sponix | way that reads to me, is vbox doesn't backport patches and bugfixes to old branches long enough to meet Debians terms |
| 23:56.54 | urxtnw | What themes do you guys use? |
| 23:57.06 | sponix | so they dropped it |
| 23:57.49 | sponix | urxtnw: I Dark Mode everything these days |
| 23:57.53 | somiaj | basically, but vbox is not alone, there are other software that does this (browsers, think the old iceweasel issue) |
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| 23:58.35 | bacoder | ratrace: big deal, its outdated, I don't think that is a serious security problem |
| 23:59.11 | sponix | somiaj: I am far from a Debian "purist" ... I just like to use whatever works best for me, despite what others think etc |
| 23:59.12 | somiaj | I think debian is playing around with ideas on how to support such software that cannot be offically put into main (browsers were given exception, but they don't want to keep adding exceptions) due to upstream not able to help support a frozen system. fasttrack.debian.net is one idea that may (or may not) become such a method. |
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