IRC log for #debian on 20190916

IRC log for #debian on 20190916

IRC log for #debian on 20190916

00:01.42annadane!debian-next
00:01.42annadane!debian-next
00:01.42dpkg#debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode.  If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
00:01.42dpkg#debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode.  If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
00:01.51annadanestorrgie, ^
00:01.51annadanestorrgie, ^
00:01.53*** join/#debian de-facto (~de-facto@gateway/tor-sasl/de-facto)
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00:02.03storrgieah yeah sorry forgot about that
00:02.03storrgieah yeah sorry forgot about that
00:04.57*** join/#debian pand0ra1337^BNC (~pand0ra13@ipbcc01e85.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
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00:16.02*** topic/#debian is Current Debian release is buster, 10.1 point release /msg dpkg 10.1; /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.11 ; 9.11 needs dist-upgrade | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog
00:16.02*** topic/#debian is Current Debian release is buster, 10.1 point release /msg dpkg 10.1; /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.11 ; 9.11 needs dist-upgrade | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog
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00:58.12GerowenIs there any particular reason that forums.debian.net runs over regular, unencrypted http?
00:58.32abrotmanonly runs, or also runs?
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00:58.12GerowenIs there any particular reason that forums.debian.net runs over regular, unencrypted http?
00:59.19themillThere are many aspects of forums.d.n that make me sad...
00:58.32abrotmanonly runs, or also runs?
00:59.21Gerowenonly, far as i can tell
00:59.19themillThere are many aspects of forums.d.n that make me sad...
00:59.31GerowenWhen I try https it just stalls and never loads.
00:59.52abrotmansuppose that also includes passing credentials via http, joy
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00:59.21Gerowenonly, far as i can tell
01:00.21GerowenI mean I don't have any personal information stored there, but it is a site that processes usernames and passwords for logging in, over an unencrypted connection.
00:59.31GerowenWhen I try https it just stalls and never loads.
01:00.29Gerowenabrotman: Yep
00:59.52abrotmansuppose that also includes passing credentials via http, joy
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01:00.21GerowenI mean I don't have any personal information stored there, but it is a site that processes usernames and passwords for logging in, over an unencrypted connection.
01:00.29Gerowenabrotman: Yep
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01:04.53themillprods the person who he thinks is the service owner
01:05.01*** part/#debian hanasaki (~hanasaki@pool-173-64-87-230.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net)
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01:04.53themillprods the person who he thinks is the service owner
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02:00.44OkeeCan someone advise on how I can create a home directory, and move things over to it? I don't think the directory structure is setup correctly on this computer.  This is my current directory structure https://paste.debian.net/1100975/
02:01.58themillIf it's a single user machine, there's nothing wrong with having everything in one partition like that
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02:00.44OkeeCan someone advise on how I can create a home directory, and move things over to it? I don't think the directory structure is setup correctly on this computer.  This is my current directory structure https://paste.debian.net/1100975/
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02:01.58themillIf it's a single user machine, there's nothing wrong with having everything in one partition like that
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02:08.15libreVodkaOkee, usermod can alter user login info, such as home directory
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02:08.32OkeelibreVodka:
02:08.40Okee> typo
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02:08.15libreVodkaOkee, usermod can alter user login info, such as home directory
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02:09.38OkeeI ended up using lsblkto print out what is in the paste that I posted earlier
02:08.32OkeelibreVodka:
02:08.40Okee> typo
02:10.15libreVodkaI saw that, and like the other guy said a /boot /swap and / is all good
02:09.38OkeeI ended up using lsblkto print out what is in the paste that I posted earlier
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02:10.15libreVodkaI saw that, and like the other guy said a /boot /swap and / is all good
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02:13.48OkeelibreVodka> Yesterday someone pointed out that having /home in its own directory can potentially save your data when recovering from a crash.
02:14.29libreVodkawell home is a directory no matter what, you mean partition?
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02:13.48OkeelibreVodka> Yesterday someone pointed out that having /home in its own directory can potentially save your data when recovering from a crash.
02:14.29libreVodkawell home is a directory no matter what, you mean partition?
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02:15.42OkeelibreVodka>   Yes
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02:16.18libreVodkayou can add home to a seperate partiton and sure, makes things handy, can even share the home with another OS
02:15.42OkeelibreVodka>   Yes
02:17.09OkeelibreVodka>  What is a good way to do that with the existing system located at https://paste.debian.net/1100975/
02:17.23libreVodkaa quick look, it looks like the command usermod <username> -d <new home directory> should work
02:17.36libreVodkayou need space to create the partiton first of course
02:16.18libreVodkayou can add home to a seperate partiton and sure, makes things handy, can even share the home with another OS
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02:17.09OkeelibreVodka>  What is a good way to do that with the existing system located at https://paste.debian.net/1100975/
02:17.23libreVodkaa quick look, it looks like the command usermod <username> -d <new home directory> should work
02:20.32themillIn terms of "saving data after a crash", what sort of crash are you talking about... if it's a dead hard disk, then being on a different partition doesn't help you.
02:17.36libreVodkayou need space to create the partiton first of course
02:20.57Okeecommand usermod isn't found in Debian stable.
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02:20.32themillIn terms of "saving data after a crash", what sort of crash are you talking about... if it's a dead hard disk, then being on a different partition doesn't help you.
02:22.17OkeeI spelled it wrong
02:20.57Okeecommand usermod isn't found in Debian stable.
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02:23.19OkeeI had to install it.
02:22.17OkeeI spelled it wrong
02:24.08OkeeI installed it, but it still isn't coming up.  Maybe I have to reboot?
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02:24.39libreVodkaare u using sudo? if so, don't think it works with sudo
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02:23.19OkeeI had to install it.
02:24.08OkeeI installed it, but it still isn't coming up.  Maybe I have to reboot?
02:24.39libreVodkaare u using sudo? if so, don't think it works with sudo
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02:26.16OkeeThe xfce-screenshooter doesn't seem to work in Debian stable.  I can't select a directory nor location to save a sceenshot, and it just shows a Gimp directory by default.
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02:26.16OkeeThe xfce-screenshooter doesn't seem to work in Debian stable.  I can't select a directory nor location to save a sceenshot, and it just shows a Gimp directory by default.
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03:01.31Debian_NoobHello. I have a device with 2 wifi interfaces. I have wlan0 set up as an AP, and wlan1 as a traditional wifi connection to another AP.  I do not have network manager installed.  I use /etc/network/interfaces to bring up both interfaces. Upon boot wlan1 comes up, however wlan0 does not and therefor isc-dhcp-server fails. Right after boot I can successfully run ifup wlan0 with no errors then systemctl start isc-dhcp-server successfully. My question,
03:01.32Debian_Noobwhere can I find out why wlan0 is not fully coming up during boot, causing isc-shcp-dhcp-server to fail?
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03:01.31Debian_NoobHello. I have a device with 2 wifi interfaces. I have wlan0 set up as an AP, and wlan1 as a traditional wifi connection to another AP.  I do not have network manager installed.  I use /etc/network/interfaces to bring up both interfaces. Upon boot wlan1 comes up, however wlan0 does not and therefor isc-dhcp-server fails. Right after boot I can successfully run ifup wlan0 with no errors then systemctl start isc-dhcp-server successfully. My question,
03:01.32Debian_Noobwhere can I find out why wlan0 is not fully coming up during boot, causing isc-shcp-dhcp-server to fail?
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03:03.17DarkTrickQuestion about `apt-cache unmet`: It shows a huge list of apps with unmet dependencies. But everything seems to work fine. Can someone tell me what would be the purpose/usefulness of that command?
03:04.02themillThey will be suggested or recommended packages, not dependencies
03:04.46themillRecommends should be filled unless you have a specific reason that you know that they should not be; apt will let you break recommends freely.
03:05.15themillSuggests are always much more of the "FYI, this other package might be relevant to you if you're installing this one"
03:03.17DarkTrickQuestion about `apt-cache unmet`: It shows a huge list of apps with unmet dependencies. But everything seems to work fine. Can someone tell me what would be the purpose/usefulness of that command?
03:05.42themillfoo suggests foo-doc, sort of thing
03:04.02themillThey will be suggested or recommended packages, not dependencies
03:05.47DarkTrickthemill, man apt-cache says "unmet displays a summary of all unmet dependencies in the package cache"
03:04.46themillRecommends should be filled unless you have a specific reason that you know that they should not be; apt will let you break recommends freely.
03:06.18themillSuggests and Recommends are both dependencies, just weaker than Depends.
03:06.36themill(Conflicts, Replaces and Breaks are also dependencies)
03:05.15themillSuggests are always much more of the "FYI, this other package might be relevant to you if you're installing this one"
03:07.43themillhttps://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#binary-dependencies-depends-recommends-suggests-enhances-pre-depends
03:05.42themillfoo suggests foo-doc, sort of thing
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03:05.47DarkTrickthemill, man apt-cache says "unmet displays a summary of all unmet dependencies in the package cache"
03:06.18themillSuggests and Recommends are both dependencies, just weaker than Depends.
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03:06.36themill(Conflicts, Replaces and Breaks are also dependencies)
03:09.25DarkTrickhow high is the possibility, that there are dependencies listed (as "Depends:"), that are actually obsolete? (The dev/ package maintainer failed to remove them)
03:07.43themillhttps://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#binary-dependencies-depends-recommends-suggests-enhances-pre-depends
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03:09.25DarkTrickhow high is the possibility, that there are dependencies listed (as "Depends:"), that are actually obsolete? (The dev/ package maintainer failed to remove them)
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03:14.50DarkTrickthemill, thank you (also for the link). Very informative :)
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03:14.50DarkTrickthemill, thank you (also for the link). Very informative :)
03:17.09themillDarkTrick: quite a few Depends are actually autogenerated based on information in the compiled binary about what libraries it links to or based on information in a python setup.py; there are undoubtedly old unneeded dependencies that no-one has noticed, but I suspect they're not that common
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03:17.09themillDarkTrick: quite a few Depends are actually autogenerated based on information in the compiled binary about what libraries it links to or based on information in a python setup.py; there are undoubtedly old unneeded dependencies that no-one has noticed, but I suspect they're not that common
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03:21.08DarkTrickthemill, thank you :)
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03:21.08DarkTrickthemill, thank you :)
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03:39.53ZaZaGX!help
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03:42.38annadane!ask
03:42.38dpkgIf you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
03:39.53ZaZaGX!help
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03:42.38annadane!ask
03:42.38dpkgIf you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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04:11.06SerajewelKSi have a tinc VPN where the interface is added to a bridge as part of the tinc-up script.  however, the tinc systemd unit doesn't depend on the network actually being up, so this part of the script fails.  the rest succeeds, so on a reboot i have the VPN running but not bridged.  restarting tinc fixes it.
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04:11.20SerajewelKSis there some way i can get tinc/systemd to wait for the bridge to be available before starting tinc?
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04:11.06SerajewelKSi have a tinc VPN where the interface is added to a bridge as part of the tinc-up script.  however, the tinc systemd unit doesn't depend on the network actually being up, so this part of the script fails.  the rest succeeds, so on a reboot i have the VPN running but not bridged.  restarting tinc fixes it.
04:11.20SerajewelKSis there some way i can get tinc/systemd to wait for the bridge to be available before starting tinc?
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04:42.06maxrazerI think maybe automatic updates should be enabled on other desktops other than just Gnome. What do you think?
04:42.27maxrazerI installed the "software & updates" tool which lets you set that.
04:42.06maxrazerI think maybe automatic updates should be enabled on other desktops other than just Gnome. What do you think?
04:42.27maxrazerI installed the "software & updates" tool which lets you set that.
04:42.54maxrazerThe Debian wiki says it is enabled by default on Gnome, but not on anything else if I understand.
04:43.02maxrazerI chose XFCE.
04:42.54maxrazerThe Debian wiki says it is enabled by default on Gnome, but not on anything else if I understand.
04:43.02maxrazerI chose XFCE.
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04:44.28diogenes_it should be optional, user should be asked during the insrallation whether he wants to enable automatic updates.
04:44.28diogenes_it should be optional, user should be asked during the insrallation whether he wants to enable automatic updates.
04:44.53maxrazerI think that makes sense.
04:45.29maxrazerI had to install software-properties-gtk. It wasn't even installed by default.
04:44.53maxrazerI think that makes sense.
04:45.29maxrazerI had to install software-properties-gtk. It wasn't even installed by default.
04:45.45maxrazerThat is the "Software & Updates" settings window.
04:45.45maxrazerThat is the "Software & Updates" settings window.
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04:54.27SerajewelKSmaxrazer: you can just install the unattended-upgrades package as well
04:55.03SerajewelKSautomatically turning on automatic updating is a really bad choice.  look at how much grief that causes windows users.
04:54.27SerajewelKSmaxrazer: you can just install the unattended-upgrades package as well
04:55.03SerajewelKSautomatically turning on automatic updating is a really bad choice.  look at how much grief that causes windows users.
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05:09.06maxrazerSerajewelKS, unattended-upgrades is installed by default, but not the "Software & Updates" tool to set it package name "software-properties-gtk".
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05:10.12maxrazerAutomatic updates are on by default with Gnome desktop install of Debian according to the wiki on unattended upgrades.
05:09.06maxrazerSerajewelKS, unattended-upgrades is installed by default, but not the "Software & Updates" tool to set it package name "software-properties-gtk".
05:10.12maxrazerAutomatic updates are on by default with Gnome desktop install of Debian according to the wiki on unattended upgrades.
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05:57.29resc_053b2_4161hi
05:57.49resc_053b2_4161can you help me?
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05:57.29resc_053b2_4161hi
05:57.49resc_053b2_4161can you help me?
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06:01.00resc_053b2_4144Please help me
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06:01.00resc_053b2_4144Please help me
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06:02.53at0mresc_053b2_4144: just ask your question
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06:02.53at0mresc_053b2_4144: just ask your question
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06:16.44SwK}
06:16.44SwK~
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06:16.44SwK}
06:16.44SwK~
06:17.51SwKso I need to force  ahci to be the first scsi driver then other drivers to fall after that. (i forget how long ago) you used to be able to do something like specify  scsihosts=ahci,foo,etc as a kernel boot param but that seems possibly deprecated. can anyone point me in the right direction?
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06:17.51SwKso I need to force  ahci to be the first scsi driver then other drivers to fall after that. (i forget how long ago) you used to be able to do something like specify  scsihosts=ahci,foo,etc as a kernel boot param but that seems possibly deprecated. can anyone point me in the right direction?
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08:19.17choiceHello
08:19.45choiceIs a system running on Debian 8 still provided with security fixes?
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08:20.42themilllimited
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08:20.46themill!jessie-lts
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08:20.47dpkgSecurity support for Debian 8 "Jessie" from the Debian Security Team ended on 2018-05-17.  The amd64, i386, armel and armhf architectures will receive additional long term support (<LTS>) via <jessie/updates> until around 2020 for a 5 year lifetime total.  See https://wiki.debian.org/LTS for more information
08:19.17choiceHello
08:19.45choiceIs a system running on Debian 8 still provided with security fixes?
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08:21.57choicethemill: Ok, so amd64 is kinda still provided with fixes.
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08:22.16choiceDoes that include stuff like PHP? Who is fixing that one?
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08:20.42themilllimited
08:23.01choiceIs it only fixed if upstream sends a fix or does Debian fix everything in their repos?
08:20.46themill!jessie-lts
08:20.47dpkgSecurity support for Debian 8 "Jessie" from the Debian Security Team ended on 2018-05-17.  The amd64, i386, armel and armhf architectures will receive additional long term support (<LTS>) via <jessie/updates> until around 2020 for a 5 year lifetime total.  See https://wiki.debian.org/LTS for more information
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08:21.57choicethemill: Ok, so amd64 is kinda still provided with fixes.
08:22.16choiceDoes that include stuff like PHP? Who is fixing that one?
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08:23.01choiceIs it only fixed if upstream sends a fix or does Debian fix everything in their repos?
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08:26.26themillI believe that php in jessie-lts is still getting backported fixes
08:26.48ratraceonly for critical, remote bugs
08:27.01ratraceremotely exploitable I mean
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08:26.26themillI believe that php in jessie-lts is still getting backported fixes
08:26.48ratraceonly for critical, remote bugs
08:30.22choiceWhere does it get them from?
08:27.01ratraceremotely exploitable I mean
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08:30.49berkleyoh hey guys
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08:32.53choiceIs there a list of Debians supplied fixes for certain parts? Like a search for patches done to a certain package?
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08:30.22choiceWhere does it get them from?
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08:30.49berkleyoh hey guys
08:32.53choiceIs there a list of Debians supplied fixes for certain parts? Like a search for patches done to a certain package?
08:37.03ratracechoice: yes, the debian patch tracker, for example these are for 7.3 https://sources.debian.org/patches/php7.3/7.3.4-2/
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08:37.03ratracechoice: yes, the debian patch tracker, for example these are for 7.3 https://sources.debian.org/patches/php7.3/7.3.4-2/
08:42.50choiceratrace: How do I get the ones for PHP 5?
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08:42.50choiceratrace: How do I get the ones for PHP 5?
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08:45.57ratracechoice: you find php5 from here: https://sources.debian.org/patches/
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08:48.06themillthat's missing the jessie-lts uploads for some reason; grab the source package itself instead
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08:49.02choiceratrace: So this seems to be the list: https://sources.debian.org/patches/php5/5.6.33+dfsg-0+deb8u1/
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08:49.11choiceIs that ordered chronologically?
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08:45.57ratracechoice: you find php5 from here: https://sources.debian.org/patches/
08:50.03themill,v src:php5
08:50.03ratracechoice: I don't know, but the series file (linked from that page) will show you the order in which the patches are supposed to be applied
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08:48.06themillthat's missing the jessie-lts uploads for some reason; grab the source package itself instead
08:50.04juddPackage: src:php5 on amd64 -- jessie: 5.6.33+dfsg-0+deb8u1; jessie-security: 5.6.40+dfsg-0+deb8u5
08:51.05choiceratrace: same order. So I guess the list is chronologically.
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08:49.02choiceratrace: So this seems to be the list: https://sources.debian.org/patches/php5/5.6.33+dfsg-0+deb8u1/
08:49.11choiceIs that ordered chronologically?
08:52.24ratracechoice: not all packages will have patchfiles numbered neatly like that, so the series file is really the reference for the order of patch application
08:50.03themill,v src:php5
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08:50.03ratracechoice: I don't know, but the series file (linked from that page) will show you the order in which the patches are supposed to be applied
08:50.04juddPackage: src:php5 on amd64 -- jessie: 5.6.33+dfsg-0+deb8u1; jessie-security: 5.6.40+dfsg-0+deb8u5
08:51.05choiceratrace: same order. So I guess the list is chronologically.
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08:52.24ratracechoice: not all packages will have patchfiles numbered neatly like that, so the series file is really the reference for the order of patch application
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09:03.09pycerHello, gentlemen
09:03.26jellyand ladies!
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09:03.09pycerHello, gentlemen
09:03.26jellyand ladies!
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09:08.57han-solowhat happened ? :|
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09:09.40jellyI guess you had to be there.
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09:09.56annadanebut i was here!
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09:10.48jellyprecisely.  -> #debian-offtopic
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09:08.57han-solowhat happened ? :|
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09:09.40jellyI guess you had to be there.
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09:09.56annadanebut i was here!
09:15.38Night_ElfCan "ss" show the pid of the process that is using a connection? I am trying to check for the usage of a tcp port (4404), and i do "ss | grep 4404"
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09:10.48jellyprecisely.  -> #debian-offtopic
09:17.03themill-p
09:17.04Night_ElfFound it.  "ss -p | grep 4404"
09:17.10Night_Elfthanks themill
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09:15.38Night_ElfCan "ss" show the pid of the process that is using a connection? I am trying to check for the usage of a tcp port (4404), and i do "ss | grep 4404"
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09:17.03themill-p
09:17.04Night_ElfFound it.  "ss -p | grep 4404"
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09:17.10Night_Elfthanks themill
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09:36.22hypersoulhello
09:36.31yuriiiHi. If i have to similar package versions. One with an epoch prefix and one without. Say 1:4.0.0 and 4.0.0 . Which one is considered to be newer?
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09:36.33hypersoulanyone who use bumblebee
09:36.49hypersouli have a problem . i need help..
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09:36.56hypersouloptirun app
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09:37.01hypersouloutput: [ 4108.725202] [ERROR]Cannot access secondary GPU - error: [XORG] (EE) Failed to load module "mouse" (module does not exist, 0)
09:37.02hypersoul[ 4108.725245] [ERROR]Aborting because fallback start is disabled.
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09:36.22hypersoulhello
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09:36.31yuriiiHi. If i have to similar package versions. One with an epoch prefix and one without. Say 1:4.0.0 and 4.0.0 . Which one is considered to be newer?
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09:36.33hypersoulanyone who use bumblebee
09:36.49hypersouli have a problem . i need help..
09:36.56hypersouloptirun app
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09:37.01hypersouloutput: [ 4108.725202] [ERROR]Cannot access secondary GPU - error: [XORG] (EE) Failed to load module "mouse" (module does not exist, 0)
09:37.02hypersoul[ 4108.725245] [ERROR]Aborting because fallback start is disabled.
09:41.15yuriiiAFIAK the one with epoch set to 1 is newer. Since if the epoch is ommited it is considered to be zero. According to documentation at least.
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09:41.22yuriiiAm I right?
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09:43.15themillyuriii: that is correct
09:41.15yuriiiAFIAK the one with epoch set to 1 is newer. Since if the epoch is ommited it is considered to be zero. According to documentation at least.
09:43.19themill!compare versions
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09:41.22yuriiiAm I right?
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09:43.19dpkgThe canonical way to test whether one version string is considered greater than another is by testing an assertion such as «dpkg --compare-versions 1.1 gt 1.1~rc1 && echo true».  See also http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields#s-f-Version , <version epoch>, <debian revision>.
09:41.22beavis6
09:41.26beavis6
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09:43.15themillyuriii: that is correct
09:43.19themill!compare versions
09:43.19dpkgThe canonical way to test whether one version string is considered greater than another is by testing an assertion such as «dpkg --compare-versions 1.1 gt 1.1~rc1 && echo true».  See also http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields#s-f-Version , <version epoch>, <debian revision>.
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09:58.21yuriiithemill: Thanks!
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09:58.21yuriiithemill: Thanks!
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10:04.42petanhello it seems that my server didn't assign IPv6 address to eth1 after reboot, is there a way to add it now without restarting the network stack or losing the connectivity on IPv4 address on same interface?
10:05.03petanall guides I found on internet contain either restart of network stack or ifdown / ifup which i want to avoif
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10:04.42petanhello it seems that my server didn't assign IPv6 address to eth1 after reboot, is there a way to add it now without restarting the network stack or losing the connectivity on IPv4 address on same interface?
10:07.51ratracepetan: you can use `ip` to add an ipv6 address to an interface immediately
10:08.56ratraceeg. ip -6 addr add <ipv6> dev <nic>
10:05.03petanall guides I found on internet contain either restart of network stack or ifdown / ifup which i want to avoif
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10:10.11ratracedon't forget to add any routes with 'ip -6 route add ...' if necessary
10:10.12petanyeah, I just did that, it created a "tentative" IP, which I can ping from localhost, but not from internet... maybe I need to add some routing as well
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10:10.36petanjust a bit confused about that "tentative", not sure what does that mean
10:10.42petanyeah, routes are for sure missing now
10:07.51ratracepetan: you can use `ip` to add an ipv6 address to an interface immediately
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10:08.56ratraceeg. ip -6 addr add <ipv6> dev <nic>
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10:10.11ratracedon't forget to add any routes with 'ip -6 route add ...' if necessary
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10:10.12petanyeah, I just did that, it created a "tentative" IP, which I can ping from localhost, but not from internet... maybe I need to add some routing as well
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10:10.36petanjust a bit confused about that "tentative", not sure what does that mean
10:13.49petanratrace: it works now, can you maybe have a look at my /etc/network/interfaces https://pastebin.com/VyQdMLAE I don't understand why this doesn't work automatically after reboot, eth0 works fine, that's local LAN, but eth1 is always fucked up, the default route needs to be replaced (with IP that is in interfaces file) and IPv6 isn't assigned at all
10:10.42petanyeah, routes are for sure missing now
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10:14.33petanalso ifdown and ifup don't work for eth1 at all, ifdown say ifdown: interface eth1 not configured and ifup say that device already exist :D
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10:13.49petanratrace: it works now, can you maybe have a look at my /etc/network/interfaces https://pastebin.com/VyQdMLAE I don't understand why this doesn't work automatically after reboot, eth0 works fine, that's local LAN, but eth1 is always fucked up, the default route needs to be replaced (with IP that is in interfaces file) and IPv6 isn't assigned at all
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10:14.33petanalso ifdown and ifup don't work for eth1 at all, ifdown say ifdown: interface eth1 not configured and ifup say that device already exist :D
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10:24.34ratracepetan: not sure if that's the cause of any issues but, you don't need to modprobe, and netmask is deprecated, use the cidr format for ipv6
10:24.52ratraceinfact, I don't think that netmask is valid at all
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10:24.34ratracepetan: not sure if that's the cause of any issues but, you don't need to modprobe, and netmask is deprecated, use the cidr format for ipv6
10:24.52ratraceinfact, I don't think that netmask is valid at all
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10:39.19ThedarkbI'm running Debian with LXDE and I need a power manager.
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10:39.19ThedarkbI'm running Debian with LXDE and I need a power manager.
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10:47.03uioHello. There is printer I use sometimes that can print from flash drive. Would it possible to print directly from a laptop with some kind of usb cord? I'd like to avoid anything network related and it is pretty spotty. I want to avoid using a flash drive because it means that I have lots of files that are unprotected.
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10:47.03uioHello. There is printer I use sometimes that can print from flash drive. Would it possible to print directly from a laptop with some kind of usb cord? I'd like to avoid anything network related and it is pretty spotty. I want to avoid using a flash drive because it means that I have lots of files that are unprotected.
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11:05.33n_1-c_kuio, yes in general.
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11:07.48Habbieuio, if you mean 'emulate a flash drive from a laptop', that's not very easy
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11:07.55Habbieuio, but surely this printer also has a USB B port
11:05.33n_1-c_kuio, yes in general.
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11:09.00uion_1-c_k, Habbie Hmmmm. So it would be kind of tricky to plug a cord into my laptop and the printer and have my laptop show up as an flash-drive even if I've turned on the laptop?
11:09.11Habbieyes
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11:09.50Habbiebecause then you have two masters on the same USB bus and that's not how USB works
11:09.58Habbie(might be different in USB3 and USBC, i'm not an expert)
11:07.48Habbieuio, if you mean 'emulate a flash drive from a laptop', that's not very easy
11:10.45uioHmmm. Would you have any other suggestions for the situation? Basically, how can 1) print without the network and 2) protect my files against loss/theft?
11:11.13Habbie1) connect to the usb port of the printer 2) only put the file you want to print on the usb stick
11:07.55Habbieuio, but surely this printer also has a USB B port
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11:11.25colo-workHabbie, uio - maybe check out http://www.linux-usb.org/gadget/file_storage.html I think that could be used to do just that
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11:11.54Habbiecolo-work, yes, but to my knowledge, you need physical ports that can 'host' that
11:09.00uion_1-c_k, Habbie Hmmmm. So it would be kind of tricky to plug a cord into my laptop and the printer and have my laptop show up as an flash-drive even if I've turned on the laptop?
11:09.11Habbieyes
11:11.57Habbiecolo-work, like on a pi zero
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11:12.17HabbieMany Linux systems will not be able to use it, since they only have PC-style USB Host (master) hardware in a PC, workstation, or server. But when you're putting together embedded Linux systems, a USB peripheral controller option is routine
11:09.50Habbiebecause then you have two masters on the same USB bus and that's not how USB works
11:12.19Habbiehttp://www.linux-usb.org/gadget/
11:09.58Habbie(might be different in USB3 and USBC, i'm not an expert)
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11:10.45uioHmmm. Would you have any other suggestions for the situation? Basically, how can 1) print without the network and 2) protect my files against loss/theft?
11:12.21Habbiethis is the problem
11:11.13Habbie1) connect to the usb port of the printer 2) only put the file you want to print on the usb stick
11:12.24Habbiethe software is not the problem :)
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11:11.25colo-workHabbie, uio - maybe check out http://www.linux-usb.org/gadget/file_storage.html I think that could be used to do just that
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11:13.00uiocolo-work, Habbie Hmmm.
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11:11.54Habbiecolo-work, yes, but to my knowledge, you need physical ports that can 'host' that
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11:11.57Habbiecolo-work, like on a pi zero
11:12.17HabbieMany Linux systems will not be able to use it, since they only have PC-style USB Host (master) hardware in a PC, workstation, or server. But when you're putting together embedded Linux systems, a USB peripheral controller option is routine
11:12.19Habbiehttp://www.linux-usb.org/gadget/
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11:12.21Habbiethis is the problem
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11:12.24Habbiethe software is not the problem :)
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11:13.00uiocolo-work, Habbie Hmmm.
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11:24.23BCMMuio: does this printer only support flash drives and networking? there's no way to use it as an ordinary USB printer?
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11:24.23BCMMuio: does this printer only support flash drives and networking? there's no way to use it as an ordinary USB printer?
11:28.15uioBCMM, Good quesiton, and (hopefully) the solution (that maybe should have been obvious to me, but wasn't). I'm not sure. It's one of those big office printers. There is only the usb port which is accessible (easily).
11:28.33BCMMuio: well, what does the USB port look like?
11:28.55BCMMi mean if it's only got a USB-B port, then yeah, it can probably only accept USB sticks
11:29.02BCMMi meant USB-A
11:29.14BCMMif it has a USB-B port somewhere, it's probably intended to be plugged in to a computer
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11:28.15uioBCMM, Good quesiton, and (hopefully) the solution (that maybe should have been obvious to me, but wasn't). I'm not sure. It's one of those big office printers. There is only the usb port which is accessible (easily).
11:28.33BCMMuio: well, what does the USB port look like?
11:30.34uioBCMM, I should know, but I don't... the printer itself is quite new - it has a touch screen for the job settings rather than buttons. I think that the usb port is intended for use with flash drives (both print from and scan to), but don't know if it is A or B.
11:30.47Habbieif you can stick a flash drive in it
11:28.55BCMMi mean if it's only got a USB-B port, then yeah, it can probably only accept USB sticks
11:30.49Habbieit's an A
11:31.16BCMMuio: does it have a model number printed somewhere visible? you can probably find a manual with full specs more easily than you can get at teh back of the machine
11:29.02BCMMi meant USB-A
11:29.14BCMMif it has a USB-B port somewhere, it's probably intended to be plugged in to a computer
11:32.25uioBCMM, Hmmm. I don't have access to it at the moment. But I'll check when I do. This would probably be the best way forward.
11:32.34Habbieassuming you're allowed to access that port
11:32.36uioHabbie, Oh.
11:32.39Habbiein many organisations, you're not
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11:32.54uioHabbie, The flash drive port?
11:33.06Habbiei meant the B port
11:30.34uioBCMM, I should know, but I don't... the printer itself is quite new - it has a touch screen for the job settings rather than buttons. I think that the usb port is intended for use with flash drives (both print from and scan to), but don't know if it is A or B.
11:33.08Habbiefor connecting to the laptop
11:30.47Habbieif you can stick a flash drive in it
11:33.10uioHabbie, Ah.
11:30.49Habbieit's an A
11:33.31uioHabbie, Right. It would probably look shady at best :)
11:31.16BCMMuio: does it have a model number printed somewhere visible? you can probably find a manual with full specs more easily than you can get at teh back of the machine
11:33.51Habbie:)
11:34.18uioI mean, another option might be some sort of flash drive that has encrypting built on, rather than LUKS encryption, no?
11:32.25uioBCMM, Hmmm. I don't have access to it at the moment. But I'll check when I do. This would probably be the best way forward.
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11:32.34Habbieassuming you're allowed to access that port
11:34.38Habbiewell then how would the printer access the right file?
11:32.36uioHabbie, Oh.
11:34.51Habbieearlier i said 'just put only the file you want to print on the flash drive', wasn't that simpler?
11:32.39Habbiein many organisations, you're not
11:32.54uioHabbie, The flash drive port?
11:33.06Habbiei meant the B port
11:35.17BCMMuio: i'm not sure i get it... why are these files too sensitive to put on a USB stick? you're printing them out on a printer which doesn't seem to be 100% private
11:33.08Habbiefor connecting to the laptop
11:33.10uioHabbie, Ah.
11:33.31uioHabbie, Right. It would probably look shady at best :)
11:35.39BCMMuio: can't you just put literally just the file you want to print on the USB stick, print it, and then put it back in the laptop and overwrite the file?
11:33.51Habbie:)
11:34.18uioI mean, another option might be some sort of flash drive that has encrypting built on, rather than LUKS encryption, no?
11:35.45Habbiei'm also unclear on what problem we are actually solving, yes
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11:34.38Habbiewell then how would the printer access the right file?
11:34.51Habbieearlier i said 'just put only the file you want to print on the flash drive', wasn't that simpler?
11:36.32whislockOverwriting the file even seems pointless at that point, if you've sent the entire file through another processing system that you have no control over.
11:36.47BCMMor, like, apply whatever physical security measures you are applying to the printouts to the USB stick too
11:35.17BCMMuio: i'm not sure i get it... why are these files too sensitive to put on a USB stick? you're printing them out on a printer which doesn't seem to be 100% private
11:35.39BCMMuio: can't you just put literally just the file you want to print on the USB stick, print it, and then put it back in the laptop and overwrite the file?
11:37.29uioBCMM, They're not at all ultra-sensitive. Let me try again: I have a work laptop and a home laptop (which I also work on in the 'work' account). I sync files between the two via Unison and a flash drive. These files are notes for meetings, personal notes and the like. I don't just anyone getting their hands on them (though it would'nt be the end of the world if they did, but I wouldn't be comforable with it).
11:37.30HabbieBCMM, but you can't apply those measures to the queueing system used inside the printer..
11:37.54uioI also use that flahs drive for printing.
11:37.56Habbiethese questions often quickly devolve into 'not printing' or 'a 30USD inkjet on every desk'
11:35.45Habbiei'm also unclear on what problem we are actually solving, yes
11:38.11uioBecause it is convenient.
11:38.26BCMMuio: the bit i'm trying to understand is "I want to avoid using a flash drive because it means that I have lots of files that are unprotected."
11:38.42uioBut, as some of you are suggesting, just copying the necessary files for printing might be best.
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11:39.23uioBCMM, I right, because to print from a flash drive, I can't use LUKS, so if I lose the flash drive, someone gets a few Gs of my data.
11:39.41uio*right, because...
11:36.32whislockOverwriting the file even seems pointless at that point, if you've sent the entire file through another processing system that you have no control over.
11:39.42BCMMuio: maybe get a second flash drive that's just for files you want to print
11:36.47BCMMor, like, apply whatever physical security measures you are applying to the printouts to the USB stick too
11:39.56uioBCMM, Yeah, it's looking like the best solution for now.
11:40.10BCMMuio: or even a small unencrypted partition on the same flash drive
11:40.16uioMy current setup is more convenient, but less secure for sure.
11:37.29uioBCMM, They're not at all ultra-sensitive. Let me try again: I have a work laptop and a home laptop (which I also work on in the 'work' account). I sync files between the two via Unison and a flash drive. These files are notes for meetings, personal notes and the like. I don't just anyone getting their hands on them (though it would'nt be the end of the world if they did, but I wouldn't be comforable with it).
11:40.22uioBCMM, Ah! I like that one.
11:37.30HabbieBCMM, but you can't apply those measures to the queueing system used inside the printer..
11:40.40uioHmmm. Of course, I could have like a few Ms for a printing section.
11:37.54uioI also use that flahs drive for printing.
11:37.56Habbiethese questions often quickly devolve into 'not printing' or 'a 30USD inkjet on every desk'
11:40.56BCMMthis is a wild guess, but the printer probably just expects the first partition to be fat32 (maybe also exfat these days), and ignores all other partitions
11:38.11uioBecause it is convenient.
11:40.56uioCould I still LUKS the other part though?
11:38.26BCMMuio: the bit i'm trying to understand is "I want to avoid using a flash drive because it means that I have lots of files that are unprotected."
11:41.05BCMMsure
11:38.42uioBut, as some of you are suggesting, just copying the necessary files for printing might be best.
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11:41.12uioBCMM, You're probably right.
11:41.18uioI quite like this solution.
11:41.46Habbieyes
11:39.23uioBCMM, I right, because to print from a flash drive, I can't use LUKS, so if I lose the flash drive, someone gets a few Gs of my data.
11:42.02Habbieif you don't want to deal with two flash drives, this is a good approach
11:39.41uio*right, because...
11:42.03uioIf the print partition is small, then would new files right over the old ones often? This would be ideal for securely deleting information I think.
11:39.42BCMMuio: maybe get a second flash drive that's just for files you want to print
11:42.19Habbiethat is not guaranteed
11:39.56uioBCMM, Yeah, it's looking like the best solution for now.
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11:40.10BCMMuio: or even a small unencrypted partition on the same flash drive
11:42.26uioHabbie, Why not?
11:40.16uioMy current setup is more convenient, but less secure for sure.
11:42.53Habbiebecause modern drives can allocate things in physical space any which way they want
11:40.22uioBCMM, Ah! I like that one.
11:40.40uioHmmm. Of course, I could have like a few Ms for a printing section.
11:40.56BCMMthis is a wild guess, but the printer probably just expects the first partition to be fat32 (maybe also exfat these days), and ignores all other partitions
11:43.08Habbiehowever, if you make sure your encrypted partition is actually filled with non-zero data (on the disk side)
11:40.56uioCould I still LUKS the other part though?
11:43.10Habbieyou should be good
11:41.05BCMMsure
11:43.34uioHabbie, Filled as it full of data?
11:41.12uioBCMM, You're probably right.
11:41.18uioI quite like this solution.
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11:41.46Habbieyes
11:43.49uioHabbie, Or when I wipe it just don't put zeros?
11:42.02Habbieif you don't want to deal with two flash drives, this is a good approach
11:42.03uioIf the print partition is small, then would new files right over the old ones often? This would be ideal for securely deleting information I think.
11:44.15uioRelated quesiton, Can I sync between two computers with a usb cable?
11:42.19Habbiethat is not guaranteed
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11:42.26uioHabbie, Why not?
11:42.53Habbiebecause modern drives can allocate things in physical space any which way they want
11:44.48BCMMuio: the answer to that one is "sort of..."
11:45.13uioRather than going through the cloud? The only functions of the encrypted parition would be to sync data and to back it up (I also do real incremental backups too, not just sync).
11:43.08Habbiehowever, if you make sure your encrypted partition is actually filled with non-zero data (on the disk side)
11:43.10Habbieyou should be good
11:43.34uioHabbie, Filled as it full of data?
11:45.44uioBCMM, Noob quesiton: would an ethernet cable between two laptops work?
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11:43.49uioHabbie, Or when I wipe it just don't put zeros?
11:46.10BCMMuio: yeah, you can totally just put an ethernet cable between two machines
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11:44.15uioRelated quesiton, Can I sync between two computers with a usb cable?
11:46.31BCMMthese days you don't even have to make sure it's a special crossover cable, because nearly everything can automatically detect that
11:46.42uioBCMM, To sync?
11:44.48BCMMuio: the answer to that one is "sort of..."
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11:45.13uioRather than going through the cloud? The only functions of the encrypted parition would be to sync data and to back it up (I also do real incremental backups too, not just sync).
11:47.19BCMMuio: well, what's "sync"? you can use just about any software that works on a LAN on the tiny, two-machine LAN thus created
11:45.44uioBCMM, Noob quesiton: would an ethernet cable between two laptops work?
11:47.36uioBCMM, cool! Sync with unison.
11:47.51uioBCMM, https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=unison&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all&sourceid=mozilla-search
11:47.53BCMMuio: on the USB cable thing, cos i already typed it out: USB is not a peer-to-peer protocol. there is always a "host" and a "gadget" in USB. unless you have a port that is electronically (i.e. in hardware) capable of acting as a Gadget, you can't connect to another computer over USB
11:46.10BCMMuio: yeah, you can totally just put an ethernet cable between two machines
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11:48.18r4m1hello
11:46.31BCMMthese days you don't even have to make sure it's a special crossover cable, because nearly everything can automatically detect that
11:46.42uioBCMM, To sync?
11:48.48uioBCMM, Okay, so I can't connect my two laptops via usb corde, but could with ethernet?
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11:49.04BCMMuio: however, a few companies *do* make special USB "cables" that can connect two computers together. the trick is that they actually have a chip inside that does some magic, so the "cable" actually shows up as a pair of USB network adaptors
11:47.19BCMMuio: well, what's "sync"? you can use just about any software that works on a LAN on the tiny, two-machine LAN thus created
11:49.07BCMMuio: yeah
11:47.36uioBCMM, cool! Sync with unison.
11:47.51uioBCMM, https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=unison&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all&sourceid=mozilla-search
11:49.19uioBCMM, Cool! Thanks :)
11:47.53BCMMuio: on the USB cable thing, cos i already typed it out: USB is not a peer-to-peer protocol. there is always a "host" and a "gadget" in USB. unless you have a port that is electronically (i.e. in hardware) capable of acting as a Gadget, you can't connect to another computer over USB
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11:50.01uioOkay, I think I have the information I needed. Thanks everyone for answering my noob question. Oh, I have one last one: is the debhelper limiting thing to avoid some sort of attack?
11:50.35BCMMi think it's supposed to stop a large number of people all joining at the same time? not sure though
11:48.18r4m1hello
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11:48.48uioBCMM, Okay, so I can't connect my two laptops via usb corde, but could with ethernet?
11:51.16r4m1I have an embedded computer runnning debian 9 where I am logging some system constants such as the available free space. I get the freespace running df at regular interval. I have recently learned in this very same channel that deleting rsyslog file (such as /var/log/syslog) without restarting the program might cause files to be kept on disk and even growing without even noticing they are here anymore
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11:49.04BCMMuio: however, a few companies *do* make special USB "cables" that can connect two computers together. the trick is that they actually have a chip inside that does some magic, so the "cable" actually shows up as a pair of USB network adaptors
11:52.26r4m1in the logs I see that the df report suddenly drops from 95% to 40% disk usage without any particular interventions. I known that some manual cleaning had been performed and 40% should be the real figure
11:49.07BCMMuio: yeah
11:49.19uioBCMM, Cool! Thanks :)
11:53.01r4m1I had deleted some files, restarting rsyslog and only managed to get to 90%
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11:50.01uioOkay, I think I have the information I needed. Thanks everyone for answering my noob question. Oh, I have one last one: is the debhelper limiting thing to avoid some sort of attack?
11:50.35BCMMi think it's supposed to stop a large number of people all joining at the same time? not sure though
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11:53.55r4m1does anyone have an idea why df suddely reported 40% instead of 90% disk usage ? Could it be another programm that was holding other files ? Could it be another reason ?
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11:51.16r4m1I have an embedded computer runnning debian 9 where I am logging some system constants such as the available free space. I get the freespace running df at regular interval. I have recently learned in this very same channel that deleting rsyslog file (such as /var/log/syslog) without restarting the program might cause files to be kept on disk and even growing without even noticing they are here anymore
11:54.11BCMMr4m1: what filesystem are you using?
11:51.29*** join/#debian Jade_NL (~druuna@82-217-51-143.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
11:54.14r4m1I see no particular reaso, program deleted or anything in the logs
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11:54.24r4m1program *restarted*
11:52.26r4m1in the logs I see that the df report suddenly drops from 95% to 40% disk usage without any particular interventions. I known that some manual cleaning had been performed and 40% should be the real figure
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11:55.26r4m1BCMM: ext4
11:53.01r4m1I had deleted some files, restarting rsyslog and only managed to get to 90%
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11:53.55r4m1does anyone have an idea why df suddely reported 40% instead of 90% disk usage ? Could it be another programm that was holding other files ? Could it be another reason ?
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11:54.11BCMMr4m1: what filesystem are you using?
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11:54.14r4m1I see no particular reaso, program deleted or anything in the logs
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11:54.24r4m1program *restarted*
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11:55.26r4m1BCMM: ext4
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12:05.41NetTerminalGeneis it ok to download intel microcode from debian site and install it? do i have to install another package?
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12:06.06NetTerminalGenei don't want to enable non-free repo in my system
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12:06.14BCMMNetTerminalGene: why not?
12:06.22NetTerminalGenedunno. you tell me
12:06.32BCMMNetTerminalGene: it's not going to automatically start replacing other packages with non-free alternatives or anything
12:06.49dgpso you want to install non-free software but not have the benefit of it being upgraded for you.. mmm
12:07.11dgpyou might as well upgrade your bios and live with whatever microcode update they included
12:05.41NetTerminalGeneis it ok to download intel microcode from debian site and install it? do i have to install another package?
12:07.22ayekatheh... "I'd like to do it the complicated way" -- "why?" -- "don't know - you tell me why not to"
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12:08.03uioDo you people roll with the included BIOS or do you replace it? If you don't replace it, does this undermine any and all security layers thereafter?
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12:08.09BCMMNetTerminalGene: anyway, in direct answer to your question: you will need the program that loads the firmware as well as the firmware image itself
12:06.06NetTerminalGenei don't want to enable non-free repo in my system
12:06.14BCMMNetTerminalGene: why not?
12:08.34BCMMNetTerminalGene: assuming you're going to use it in the normal way as opposed to rolling your own BIOS or something
12:08.39dgpuio: There aren't many machines that can use totally free software from power on
12:06.22NetTerminalGenedunno. you tell me
12:06.32BCMMNetTerminalGene: it's not going to automatically start replacing other packages with non-free alternatives or anything
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12:09.00BCMMNetTerminalGene: https://packages.debian.org/sid/intel-microcode lists the dependency: iucode-tool from contrib.
12:06.49dgpso you want to install non-free software but not have the benefit of it being upgraded for you.. mmm
12:09.17NetTerminalGeneBCMM, thanks
12:07.11dgpyou might as well upgrade your bios and live with whatever microcode update they included
12:09.25NetTerminalGene:/
12:07.22ayekatheh... "I'd like to do it the complicated way" -- "why?" -- "don't know - you tell me why not to"
12:09.43aypea[1]sweet mother of mercy. the mobile nvidia chipsets are total powerhogs. went from using 22-28W to 7W just by turning it off. it wasn't even in active use.
12:10.09BCMMNetTerminalGene: what's the concern with using the non-free repo, though? is it accidentally installing other non-free packages, or do you specifically want to avoid unexpected updates to the intel microcode?
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12:08.03uioDo you people roll with the included BIOS or do you replace it? If you don't replace it, does this undermine any and all security layers thereafter?
12:10.32NetTerminalGeneformer
12:08.09BCMMNetTerminalGene: anyway, in direct answer to your question: you will need the program that loads the firmware as well as the firmware image itself
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12:08.34BCMMNetTerminalGene: assuming you're going to use it in the normal way as opposed to rolling your own BIOS or something
12:11.11BCMMthere's probably some sort of apt pinning that can prevent that
12:08.39dgpuio: There aren't many machines that can use totally free software from power on
12:12.00dvsor just download the deb manually.
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12:09.00BCMMNetTerminalGene: https://packages.debian.org/sid/intel-microcode lists the dependency: iucode-tool from contrib.
12:13.18BCMMdvs: and the deb it depends on. and manually check for updates occasionally.
12:09.17NetTerminalGeneBCMM, thanks
12:14.05dvsBCMM, the deb it depends on is in contrib, not non-free
12:09.25NetTerminalGene:/
12:09.43aypea[1]sweet mother of mercy. the mobile nvidia chipsets are total powerhogs. went from using 22-28W to 7W just by turning it off. it wasn't even in active use.
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12:10.09BCMMNetTerminalGene: what's the concern with using the non-free repo, though? is it accidentally installing other non-free packages, or do you specifically want to avoid unexpected updates to the intel microcode?
12:10.32NetTerminalGeneformer
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12:15.33NetTerminalGenedoes contrib and non-free supported by debian?
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12:11.11BCMMthere's probably some sort of apt pinning that can prevent that
12:12.00dvsor just download the deb manually.
12:13.18BCMMdvs: and the deb it depends on. and manually check for updates occasionally.
12:16.24jellyNetTerminalGene: no and yes, depends on how you define "supported"
12:16.46NetTerminalGenejelly, do they update it for security fixes?
12:14.05dvsBCMM, the deb it depends on is in contrib, not non-free
12:16.50NetTerminalGenepackages
12:16.56useretailhow such directory structure is called: b/0/2/6/b026324c6904b2a9cb4b88d6d61c81d1.file
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12:15.33NetTerminalGenedoes contrib and non-free supported by debian?
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12:16.24jellyNetTerminalGene: no and yes, depends on how you define "supported"
12:16.46NetTerminalGenejelly, do they update it for security fixes?
12:16.50NetTerminalGenepackages
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12:21.01jellyNetTerminalGene: some do, eg. intel-microcode
12:16.56useretailhow such directory structure is called: b/0/2/6/b026324c6904b2a9cb4b88d6d61c81d1.file
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12:22.52NetTerminalGeneok guys. i installed it
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12:23.28koollmanis there a 'nice' way to get drbd9 kernel module on buster ? (drbd-utils v9 are there, but kernel module is v8)
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12:21.01jellyNetTerminalGene: some do, eg. intel-microcode
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12:22.52NetTerminalGeneok guys. i installed it
12:23.28koollmanis there a 'nice' way to get drbd9 kernel module on buster ? (drbd-utils v9 are there, but kernel module is v8)
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12:40.21jellykoollman: maybe by getting 5.2 kernel from backports when it becomes available?
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12:44.06Night_ElfWhere can I find guidelines for an island time-zone with 2 ntp servers in a lan?
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12:40.21jellykoollman: maybe by getting 5.2 kernel from backports when it becomes available?
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12:44.06Night_ElfWhere can I find guidelines for an island time-zone with 2 ntp servers in a lan?
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12:51.36koollmanjelly: hm. so, seems the 'right' way would be to build drbd module myself then :/
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12:51.36koollmanjelly: hm. so, seems the 'right' way would be to build drbd module myself then :/
12:55.11colo-workkoollman, you're probably better off just building a debian package from the vanilla kernel sources
12:55.28colo-workthat's actually quite trivial - but I'm not sure how Secure Boot plays along these days
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12:56.54BCMMkoollman: +1 to what colo-work said. use `make oldconfig` with the config from Debian's kernel, and `make bindeb-pkg` to do everything else
12:57.19colo-workwhat's in drbd9 that makes you want to have it, btw?
12:57.29BCMMif you used the config from a signed kernel, disable signing so it doesn't whine about not having a certificate to sign with
12:55.11colo-workkoollman, you're probably better off just building a debian package from the vanilla kernel sources
12:55.28colo-workthat's actually quite trivial - but I'm not sure how Secure Boot plays along these days
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12:56.54BCMMkoollman: +1 to what colo-work said. use `make oldconfig` with the config from Debian's kernel, and `make bindeb-pkg` to do everything else
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12:57.19colo-workwhat's in drbd9 that makes you want to have it, btw?
13:03.32siouxscoutIs an upgrade to a new release recommended or install from iso?
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12:57.29BCMMif you used the config from a signed kernel, disable signing so it doesn't whine about not having a certificate to sign with
13:04.16greycatMost people upgrade in place.  Some people do a full reinstall every release.
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13:04.32greycatUpgrading in place is one of Debian's main strengths and selling points.
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13:04.49diogenes_siouxscout, i personally always preffer clean install, that's why i never experience any bugs.
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13:03.32siouxscoutIs an upgrade to a new release recommended or install from iso?
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13:04.16greycatMost people upgrade in place.  Some people do a full reinstall every release.
13:06.27koollmancolo-work: multi (more than 2) node setup, and a few other nice things to automate storage handling. I'm still not entirely sure I want to go this way, but it would be nice to use the most recent major version anyway
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13:06.38colo-workok
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13:06.52colo-workso, basically, a fair bit of sns ;)
13:04.32greycatUpgrading in place is one of Debian's main strengths and selling points.
13:06.58HicksDThe only downside to upgrade in place is that you won't be moved onto the "new defaults" of a new release. Which on the flip side is also a plus for some :)
13:04.49diogenes_siouxscout, i personally always preffer clean install, that's why i never experience any bugs.
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13:06.27koollmancolo-work: multi (more than 2) node setup, and a few other nice things to automate storage handling. I'm still not entirely sure I want to go this way, but it would be nice to use the most recent major version anyway
13:06.38colo-workok
13:06.52colo-workso, basically, a fair bit of sns ;)
13:09.25greycatEvery once in a while, you may get bitten by something like "my nsswitch.conf file from 10 years ago still said files instead of compat, and it didn't matter until now", but the pain of a full reinstall is usually much greater than the pain of fixing these little issues.
13:06.58HicksDThe only downside to upgrade in place is that you won't be moved onto the "new defaults" of a new release. Which on the flip side is also a plus for some :)
13:10.11dvsLady_Aleena, ^^^
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13:10.59greycatI always make sure to document these on the wiki as I discover them, if I believe they're something that will affect more people than just me.
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13:09.25greycatEvery once in a while, you may get bitten by something like "my nsswitch.conf file from 10 years ago still said files instead of compat, and it didn't matter until now", but the pain of a full reinstall is usually much greater than the pain of fixing these little issues.
13:14.32koollmanthe most obvious trouble of this kind I see for buster is /usr being merged on install but not on upgrade
13:10.11dvsLady_Aleena, ^^^
13:14.53greycatwhat specific trouble have you seen, or do you expect to see?
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13:10.59greycatI always make sure to document these on the wiki as I discover them, if I believe they're something that will affect more people than just me.
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13:15.20themillyou can install usrmerge yourself
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13:15.53koollmanhardcoded path in strongly-opiniated scripts (or config-management), like "/usr should be a directory" or "should be a mountpoint" :)
13:16.50greycatI'm aware of at least one package that hardcodes the new /usr/bin/ path for some common program that used to be in /bin, and still *is* in /bin if you didn't usrmerge, and a bug has been filed for it.
13:14.32koollmanthe most obvious trouble of this kind I see for buster is /usr being merged on install but not on upgrade
13:17.32koollmanthe other obvious point that will be painful to me is nftables, but that's quite harder to handle 'right'
13:14.53greycatwhat specific trouble have you seen, or do you expect to see?
13:17.38greycatThe real bug of course is that you should not hard-code ANY paths for ANY of the common unix commands.  Just use "chmod" or "rmdir" or whatever, and let $PATH sort it out.
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13:18.01koollmansome have to be hardcoded
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13:18.14greycatNo, they do not.
13:15.20themillyou can install usrmerge yourself
13:18.15koollmanfor example, you cannot expect 'env' to be found in a script that uses it
13:18.26greycatThat's in a shebang only.
13:18.41greycatShebangs are a whole separate issue.
13:18.41koollmanthat's still a common hardcoded point :)
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13:19.24koollmanand once you decided on one hardcoded env path, you cannot expect to use env for the rest of shebang uses. so ... still causes troubles :)
13:15.53koollmanhardcoded path in strongly-opiniated scripts (or config-management), like "/usr should be a directory" or "should be a mountpoint" :)
13:16.50greycatI'm aware of at least one package that hardcodes the new /usr/bin/ path for some common program that used to be in /bin, and still *is* in /bin if you didn't usrmerge, and a bug has been filed for it.
13:20.09greycatAgain, shebangs are a separate issue.  I'm talking about the rest of the script.
13:20.40greycatYou can have an entire religious war about shebangs.  I do not want to have that war right now.
13:17.32koollmanthe other obvious point that will be painful to me is nftables, but that's quite harder to handle 'right'
13:17.38greycatThe real bug of course is that you should not hard-code ANY paths for ANY of the common unix commands.  Just use "chmod" or "rmdir" or whatever, and let $PATH sort it out.
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13:20.58koollmanoh, not declaring any side. just pointing out
13:18.01koollmansome have to be hardcoded
13:21.04koollmanfor the rest it is probably mostly ok. I know some of my older setups would have broken hard. I hope the companies using them have migrated to something smarter :)
13:18.14greycatNo, they do not.
13:21.51koollman(I've setup pxe nfsroot env with explicitely split /usr, for example. not sure how it would work. maybe it would be mostly transparent though)
13:18.15koollmanfor example, you cannot expect 'env' to be found in a script that uses it
13:18.26greycatThat's in a shebang only.
13:18.41greycatShebangs are a whole separate issue.
13:18.41koollmanthat's still a common hardcoded point :)
13:19.24koollmanand once you decided on one hardcoded env path, you cannot expect to use env for the rest of shebang uses. so ... still causes troubles :)
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13:20.09greycatAgain, shebangs are a separate issue.  I'm talking about the rest of the script.
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13:20.40greycatYou can have an entire religious war about shebangs.  I do not want to have that war right now.
13:20.58koollmanoh, not declaring any side. just pointing out
13:21.04koollmanfor the rest it is probably mostly ok. I know some of my older setups would have broken hard. I hope the companies using them have migrated to something smarter :)
13:21.51koollman(I've setup pxe nfsroot env with explicitely split /usr, for example. not sure how it would work. maybe it would be mostly transparent though)
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13:45.36Guest47712hello there
13:47.09avu!mxlinux
13:47.09dpkgCurrent MX Linux is based on Debian stretch. However, MX Linux is not supported in #debian. Seek help at https://mxlinux.org/.
13:45.36Guest47712hello there
13:48.29Guest47712avu ?
13:47.09avu!mxlinux
13:47.09dpkgCurrent MX Linux is based on Debian stretch. However, MX Linux is not supported in #debian. Seek help at https://mxlinux.org/.
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14:35.56SwKanyone know in Debian 10 how to specify SAS/SATA HBA driver load order on the kernel command line in the boot loader fig (ie: grub or ipxe)? example I want it to load ahci first but it keeps loading mpt3sas
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14:36.27aypea[1]swk: honest question: why do you need this? fstab requirements?
14:36.36SwKpreseed
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14:37.25SwKand keeping the boot drive which happens to be on ahci at a consistent location in the sytem when the number of drives hanging off the LSI SAS HBA can vary
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14:38.09aypea[1]preseed?
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14:39.22SwKyes preseed...
14:35.56SwKanyone know in Debian 10 how to specify SAS/SATA HBA driver load order on the kernel command line in the boot loader fig (ie: grub or ipxe)? example I want it to load ahci first but it keeps loading mpt3sas
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14:40.22aypea[1]don't understand. and, well, one way to do what you'd want, I'd say, is to make sure that they are all modules and that they are loaded in a particular order in initrd. seems like much work.
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14:36.27aypea[1]swk: honest question: why do you need this? fstab requirements?
14:40.34aypea[1]I just used lvm and stopped caring
14:36.36SwKpreseed
14:40.55Jade_NL~
14:37.25SwKand keeping the boot drive which happens to be on ahci at a consistent location in the sytem when the number of drives hanging off the LSI SAS HBA can vary
14:41.07SwKuse case you have a set of servers with 1 (or more) SSDs on the AHCI controller for booting the system, you have say an LSI SAS 2308 with 4 - 24 drives on the system... preseed isnt smart enough to say "hey pick the 400G SSD not the 4 to 10TB SATAs for your boot/root filesystems...
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14:38.09aypea[1]preseed?
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14:39.22SwKyes preseed...
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14:41.53SwKyou used to just specific the scsihosts=drvrA,drvrB and holy smoke drvrA loaded first
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14:40.22aypea[1]don't understand. and, well, one way to do what you'd want, I'd say, is to make sure that they are all modules and that they are loaded in a particular order in initrd. seems like much work.
14:42.29SwKthis should be no reason to build a custom initrd for a concept that is as old as different drivers from different HBAs
14:40.34aypea[1]I just used lvm and stopped caring
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14:40.55Jade_NL~
14:41.07SwKuse case you have a set of servers with 1 (or more) SSDs on the AHCI controller for booting the system, you have say an LSI SAS 2308 with 4 - 24 drives on the system... preseed isnt smart enough to say "hey pick the 400G SSD not the 4 to 10TB SATAs for your boot/root filesystems...
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14:41.53SwKyou used to just specific the scsihosts=drvrA,drvrB and holy smoke drvrA loaded first
14:42.29SwKthis should be no reason to build a custom initrd for a concept that is as old as different drivers from different HBAs
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14:57.21vsayikiranI am trying to edit xkb layout and variants to enable multilevel keyboard maps(5th level modofier). I researched in google and found that individual unicode characters needs to written in its unicode format except for those chars which are defined in keysymdef.h file.....Please let me know the location in debian buster edition
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14:57.21vsayikiranI am trying to edit xkb layout and variants to enable multilevel keyboard maps(5th level modofier). I researched in google and found that individual unicode characters needs to written in its unicode format except for those chars which are defined in keysymdef.h file.....Please let me know the location in debian buster edition
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15:04.22dvsvsayikiran, https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=contents&keywords=keysymdef.h&mode=path&suite=stable&arch=any
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15:04.22dvsvsayikiran, https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=contents&keywords=keysymdef.h&mode=path&suite=stable&arch=any
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15:14.52teclo-afternoon... a clean install of Debian 10.1, I login as root, and the first commande I use: aptitude... all I get is: "bash: aptitude: command not found" ... ouch !
15:15.21greycataptitude might not be installed; just install it (apt install aptitude) as root
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15:17.59teclo-greycat: thank you
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15:14.52teclo-afternoon... a clean install of Debian 10.1, I login as root, and the first commande I use: aptitude... all I get is: "bash: aptitude: command not found" ... ouch !
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15:18.34ThedarkbHey, I keep getting three login prompts whenever I wake my laptop up from sleep.
15:18.39ThedarkbAnyone have any ideas?
15:15.21greycataptitude might not be installed; just install it (apt install aptitude) as root
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15:19.42teclo-or well... I can use apt instead
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15:21.21greycatYou're expected to install whatever you want, that's missing.  Like aptitude, if you want to use aptitude.
15:17.59teclo-greycat: thank you
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15:18.34ThedarkbHey, I keep getting three login prompts whenever I wake my laptop up from sleep.
15:18.39ThedarkbAnyone have any ideas?
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15:19.42teclo-or well... I can use apt instead
15:24.30storrgieIs there a good guide on doing a non-installer based install with debootstrap? I'd like to attempt to use systemd-boot instead of grub
15:25.02vsayikirandvs: thank you. I need to install the package listed in debian in order to get that file.....
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15:21.21greycatYou're expected to install whatever you want, that's missing.  Like aptitude, if you want to use aptitude.
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15:25.36vsayikiranInstead I downloaded the .deb package directly from site and looked into the contents of file keysymdef.h
15:26.39dvsok
15:26.41vsayikiranWhat I actually needed is actual file in my laptop, I think without installing the package I wont find it in my laptop
15:27.18dvsor you can use the locate or find command
15:27.44vsayikirandvs: no it does not exist in said location /usr/include/X11/xkb
15:28.16greycat,file include/X11/xkb/keysymdef.h
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15:28.28dvsusr?
15:24.30storrgieIs there a good guide on doing a non-installer based install with debootstrap? I'd like to attempt to use systemd-boot instead of grub
15:28.37dvsor can it use relative?
15:28.39vsayikirandvs: i tried several time regarding this each search told me search i above location only or else install the dev package
15:25.02vsayikirandvs: thank you. I need to install the package listed in debian in order to get that file.....
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15:28.45greycatjudd...?
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15:25.36vsayikiranInstead I downloaded the .deb package directly from site and looked into the contents of file keysymdef.h
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15:29.38greycatwell, judd's not responding :(  you can use apt-file locally, or you can use packages.debian.org, to figure out which package contains this C header file
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15:26.39dvsok
15:26.41vsayikiranWhat I actually needed is actual file in my laptop, I think without installing the package I wont find it in my laptop
15:27.18dvsor you can use the locate or find command
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15:27.44vsayikirandvs: no it does not exist in said location /usr/include/X11/xkb
15:28.16greycat,file include/X11/xkb/keysymdef.h
15:28.28dvsusr?
15:28.37dvsor can it use relative?
15:28.39vsayikirandvs: i tried several time regarding this each search told me search i above location only or else install the dev package
15:31.28vsayikirandvs: anyway I checked the content of file, I did not get what i want. Does any have idea if we can edit /usr/share/x11/xkb/symbols/<country code> layout files, edit the variants using unicode alphabet names instead of unicode numbers
15:28.45greycatjudd...?
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15:29.38greycatwell, judd's not responding :(  you can use apt-file locally, or you can use packages.debian.org, to figure out which package contains this C header file
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15:32.30dvsno idea
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15:32.59DrOwlon my Debian 10 system i get "# locate keysymdef.h -> /usr/include/X11/keysymdef.h ; # dpkg -S /usr/include/X11/keysymdef.h -> x11proto-dev: /usr/include/X11/keysymdef.h"
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15:31.28vsayikirandvs: anyway I checked the content of file, I did not get what i want. Does any have idea if we can edit /usr/share/x11/xkb/symbols/<country code> layout files, edit the variants using unicode alphabet names instead of unicode numbers
15:33.45greycatit's turning into an X-Y problem anyway... seems he doesn't actually want to compile X11 client programs, but rather, wants to do something involving the configuration of his key mappings (?)
15:33.47vsayikiranDrOwl : since you have installed x11proto-dev package , anyway i do not need that package......
15:33.58jellyjudd: ping
15:33.59juddpong
15:34.04dvs'bout time
15:34.14jellyjudd: file bin/ls
15:34.19juddSearch for bin/ls in buster/amd64: coreutils: bin/ls; klibc-utils: usr/lib/klibc/bin/ls; 9base: usr/lib/plan9/bin/ls
15:32.30dvsno idea
15:34.23vsayikirangreycat: you are correct. I want to edit custom layout and variants file
15:34.41KBmeHello. I have an issue with debconf: I am asking a question in postinst and have a template for it. It is a select type. My issue is that my first db_get returns "ok", and only the second db_get returns the actual answer. Is this normal behaviour?
15:32.59DrOwlon my Debian 10 system i get "# locate keysymdef.h -> /usr/include/X11/keysymdef.h ; # dpkg -S /usr/include/X11/keysymdef.h -> x11proto-dev: /usr/include/X11/keysymdef.h"
15:34.52greycat,info coreutils
15:34.53juddPackage coreutils (utils, required) in buster/amd64: GNU core utilities. Version: 8.30-3; Size: 2644.5k; Installed: 15719k; Homepage: http://gnu.org/software/coreutils; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/coreutils
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15:34.57greycatwelcome back, judd
15:33.45greycatit's turning into an X-Y problem anyway... seems he doesn't actually want to compile X11 client programs, but rather, wants to do something involving the configuration of his key mappings (?)
15:34.58vsayikiranbut with unicode alphabet names instead of unicode hex digits which is cumbersome
15:33.47vsayikiranDrOwl : since you have installed x11proto-dev package , anyway i do not need that package......
15:34.59jellyjudd: file include/*/keysymdef.h
15:33.58jellyjudd: ping
15:35.03juddSearch for include/*/keysymdef.h in buster/amd64: x11proto-dev: usr/include/X11/keysymdef.h; nx-x11proto-core-dev: usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/nx-X11/keysymdef.h
15:33.59juddpong
15:35.08jellywfm!
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15:34.04dvs'bout time
15:34.14jellyjudd: file bin/ls
15:35.38rocketmagnethi everyone, how to get information on a package with apt ? i want to see the description text
15:34.19juddSearch for bin/ls in buster/amd64: coreutils: bin/ls; klibc-utils: usr/lib/klibc/bin/ls; 9base: usr/lib/plan9/bin/ls
15:34.23vsayikirangreycat: you are correct. I want to edit custom layout and variants file
15:35.53Ayushmanis there any plan to roll out HTTPS for the APT GET by default anytime soon ? i mean we have had all kinds of ssl exploits like heartbleed and done with that and yet ...
15:34.41KBmeHello. I have an issue with debconf: I am asking a question in postinst and have a template for it. It is a select type. My issue is that my first db_get returns "ok", and only the second db_get returns the actual answer. Is this normal behaviour?
15:35.55greycatrocketmagnet: apt-cache show pkgname, or apt show pkgname
15:34.52greycat,info coreutils
15:34.53juddPackage coreutils (utils, required) in buster/amd64: GNU core utilities. Version: 8.30-3; Size: 2644.5k; Installed: 15719k; Homepage: http://gnu.org/software/coreutils; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/coreutils
15:36.12jellyrocketmagnet: apt show packagename
15:34.57greycatwelcome back, judd
15:34.58vsayikiranbut with unicode alphabet names instead of unicode hex digits which is cumbersome
15:34.59jellyjudd: file include/*/keysymdef.h
15:35.03juddSearch for include/*/keysymdef.h in buster/amd64: x11proto-dev: usr/include/X11/keysymdef.h; nx-x11proto-core-dev: usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/nx-X11/keysymdef.h
15:35.08jellywfm!
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15:35.38rocketmagnethi everyone, how to get information on a package with apt ? i want to see the description text
15:35.53Ayushmanis there any plan to roll out HTTPS for the APT GET by default anytime soon ? i mean we have had all kinds of ssl exploits like heartbleed and done with that and yet ...
15:38.25jellyAyushman: looking inside the ssl encapsulation would only enable the MITM to see which packages you're downloading, not change them.  apt repository's Valid-Until header also ensures you will notice if a repo mirror is old, in case MITM person is intentionally giving you old repos
15:35.55greycatrocketmagnet: apt-cache show pkgname, or apt show pkgname
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15:36.12jellyrocketmagnet: apt show packagename
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15:39.43jellyAyushman: I don't know whether there's a plan or not, but it'd say it's not too high priority
15:40.09jellymumbles something about attack surface and risk management
15:40.11Ayushmanjelly, still HTTPS means security, why even let someone view your downloads ?
15:40.21jellyAyushman: no, no it doesn't.
15:38.25jellyAyushman: looking inside the ssl encapsulation would only enable the MITM to see which packages you're downloading, not change them.  apt repository's Valid-Until header also ensures you will notice if a repo mirror is old, in case MITM person is intentionally giving you old repos
15:40.32jellythere is no one thing that means "security"
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15:40.51Ayushmanoffline ?
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15:42.00greycathttps://whydoesaptnotusehttps.com   but it's a bit out of date
15:42.31lupine(apt now uses https)
15:43.01jellylupine: not in Debian 10
15:39.43jellyAyushman: I don't know whether there's a plan or not, but it'd say it's not too high priority
15:43.05greycat,info apt-transport-https
15:43.06juddPackage apt-transport-https (oldlibs, optional) in buster/amd64: transitional package for https support. Version: 1.8.2; Size: 145.4k; Installed: 152k
15:43.13greycatYes in Debian 10.
15:40.09jellymumbles something about attack surface and risk management
15:40.11Ayushmanjelly, still HTTPS means security, why even let someone view your downloads ?
15:40.21jellyAyushman: no, no it doesn't.
15:40.32jellythere is no one thing that means "security"
15:43.56jellyI have a reasonably fresh installation of buster that does not use a https mirror
15:40.51Ayushmanoffline ?
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15:44.18greycatbut it's *able to*.
15:44.19jellyadmittedly it was installed before buster was released.
15:44.37lupinemm, default mirror is a different question altogether
15:42.00greycathttps://whydoesaptnotusehttps.com   but it's a bit out of date
15:44.40jelly"able to" != "does"
15:42.31lupine(apt now uses https)
15:45.02greycatbut... that's what... they were asking for...?
15:43.01jellylupine: not in Debian 10
15:45.37jellymaybe we interpreted <Ayushman> is there any plan to roll out HTTPS for the APT GET by default anytime soon ? ... differently.
15:43.05greycat,info apt-transport-https
15:45.37greycatparanoid people can put the 's' in their file, and everyone else can live normally and have caching and efficiency
15:43.06juddPackage apt-transport-https (oldlibs, optional) in buster/amd64: transitional package for https support. Version: 1.8.2; Size: 145.4k; Installed: 152k
15:43.13greycatYes in Debian 10.
15:46.15jellysecurity.debian.org in particular does not have https "rolled out"
15:43.56jellyI have a reasonably fresh installation of buster that does not use a https mirror
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15:46.46ThedarkbAs someone on a 1mbps DSL connection, I pray it never goes over to HTTPS.
15:46.50ThedarkbI need my caching.
15:44.18greycatbut it's *able to*.
15:44.19jellyadmittedly it was installed before buster was released.
15:47.06Ayushmanjelly, in MITM, hacker relays the message,  hacker has control over the messages, to overwrite or replace original message.
15:44.37lupinemm, default mirror is a different question altogether
15:47.07colo-workthere's always approx
15:44.40jelly"able to" != "does"
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15:45.02greycatbut... that's what... they were asking for...?
15:47.17colo-work(or apt-cacher-ng etc.)
15:47.17greycat*sigh*
15:47.20jellyAyushman: yes.
15:45.37jellymaybe we interpreted <Ayushman> is there any plan to roll out HTTPS for the APT GET by default anytime soon ? ... differently.
15:45.37greycatparanoid people can put the 's' in their file, and everyone else can live normally and have caching and efficiency
15:47.36greycatAyushman: did you read https://whydoesaptnotusehttps.com yet?
15:48.22p8mAyushman: release files are signed so modified files will be rejected
15:48.30jellyAyushman: now, given that apt a) has foreknowledge of valid repo keys and b) repo sigs expire quickly, explain what exactly the hacker can do with that ability
15:46.15jellysecurity.debian.org in particular does not have https "rolled out"
15:48.44Ayushman.oO0 --- reading  --
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15:46.46ThedarkbAs someone on a 1mbps DSL connection, I pray it never goes over to HTTPS.
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15:46.50ThedarkbI need my caching.
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15:47.06Ayushmanjelly, in MITM, hacker relays the message,  hacker has control over the messages, to overwrite or replace original message.
15:47.07colo-workthere's always approx
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15:47.17colo-work(or apt-cacher-ng etc.)
15:47.17greycat*sigh*
15:51.21jellya safe channel is still a good idea, but not immediately required with catastrophic implications otherwise
15:47.20jellyAyushman: yes.
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15:47.36greycatAyushman: did you read https://whydoesaptnotusehttps.com yet?
15:48.22p8mAyushman: release files are signed so modified files will be rejected
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15:48.30jellyAyushman: now, given that apt a) has foreknowledge of valid repo keys and b) repo sigs expire quickly, explain what exactly the hacker can do with that ability
15:48.44Ayushman.oO0 --- reading  --
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15:51.21jellya safe channel is still a good idea, but not immediately required with catastrophic implications otherwise
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15:55.51GigglebyteCan someone offer advice on how to recover a messed up installation? I was able to log in yesterday through the recovery console using the lost password commands for Stretch, but today it isn't working. I am at the command prompt after botting in through Safemode.
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15:57.18GigglebyteI am at root
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15:58.15EmperorEugeneAre your /home and /root partitions seperate?
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15:59.01SwKso barring a kernel parameter solution, anyone know how to deterministically specify a boot device for preseed when you cant know which /dev/sdX it will be because you cant predict device enumeration?
15:59.39colo-workSwK, can't /dev/disk/by-* help you?
15:55.51GigglebyteCan someone offer advice on how to recover a messed up installation? I was able to log in yesterday through the recovery console using the lost password commands for Stretch, but today it isn't working. I am at the command prompt after botting in through Safemode.
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16:01.17SwKcolo-work only if you know how to predict what that will be with 0 foreknowledge of the hardware other than it will be a SSD about approx size on ahci not on mpt[2/3]sas
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15:57.18GigglebyteI am at root
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16:02.46Ayushmanjelly, replying earlier question, if repo sigs expire quickly then there is no way of telling if the repo packages are genuine or exploited piece of software. i guess
15:58.15EmperorEugeneAre your /home and /root partitions seperate?
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15:59.01SwKso barring a kernel parameter solution, anyone know how to deterministically specify a boot device for preseed when you cant know which /dev/sdX it will be because you cant predict device enumeration?
16:05.06bionade24How can I block apt hooks during installation?
15:59.39colo-workSwK, can't /dev/disk/by-* help you?
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16:01.17SwKcolo-work only if you know how to predict what that will be with 0 foreknowledge of the hardware other than it will be a SSD about approx size on ahci not on mpt[2/3]sas
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16:07.00Jade_NLHi all. I'm curious about the following:
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16:07.08Jade_NL- The TorBrowser related Debian page mentions uBlock Origin and Privacy Badger as good additions - https://wiki.debian.org/TorBrowser#See_also
16:02.46Ayushmanjelly, replying earlier question, if repo sigs expire quickly then there is no way of telling if the repo packages are genuine or exploited piece of software. i guess
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16:07.16Jade_NL- The Tor webpage strongly discourages add-ons - https://support.torproject.org/faq/faq-3/
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16:07.22Jade_NLAnybody know if the Debian team checked to see if anonymity is still assured when adding those add-ons?
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16:07.43jellyAyushman: that actually enables the admin to see if a repo is genuine but too old.
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16:05.06bionade24How can I block apt hooks during installation?
16:08.33jellyJade_NL: anyone can edit the wiki, take its contents with a grain of salt
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16:09.53Jade_NLjelly: No moderation at all? Damn..... Would be nice to know the answers though....
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16:07.00Jade_NLHi all. I'm curious about the following:
16:11.39AyushmanTor is good, but too many people use TOR, and that has made TOR too slow, they should come up with side project, something like TOR-LITE where TOR-browser will disable video and other media files of heavy bandwidth usage. that will ensure TOR-LITE will be of good band width used for privacy use and much stable.
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16:07.08Jade_NL- The TorBrowser related Debian page mentions uBlock Origin and Privacy Badger as good additions - https://wiki.debian.org/TorBrowser#See_also
16:12.00Ayushmanthat will also ensure many folks would opt to be TOR-LITE server volunteers
16:12.10Ayushmanas it would not take too much bandwidth
16:07.16Jade_NL- The Tor webpage strongly discourages add-ons - https://support.torproject.org/faq/faq-3/
16:12.33GigglebyteEmperoEugene>  My /home and /root partitions are separate
16:07.22Jade_NLAnybody know if the Debian team checked to see if anonymity is still assured when adding those add-ons?
16:07.43jellyAyushman: that actually enables the admin to see if a repo is genuine but too old.
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16:08.33jellyJade_NL: anyone can edit the wiki, take its contents with a grain of salt
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16:09.53Jade_NLjelly: No moderation at all? Damn..... Would be nice to know the answers though....
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16:15.50GigglebyteEmperoEugene>  I can't get the password reset feature to work.  I entered "e", and at the end of the linux line typed init=/bin/bash, received a credential input screen, but the system isn't allowing me to enter.  This is a messed up system and someone put volatile files on here.  However, the boot didn't fail until a failed attempt at upgrading to Buster occurred. I didn't realize someone put volatile on here.  This started out as
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16:15.50Gigglebytea stable istallation.
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16:11.39AyushmanTor is good, but too many people use TOR, and that has made TOR too slow, they should come up with side project, something like TOR-LITE where TOR-browser will disable video and other media files of heavy bandwidth usage. that will ensure TOR-LITE will be of good band width used for privacy use and much stable.
16:12.00Ayushmanthat will also ensure many folks would opt to be TOR-LITE server volunteers
16:12.10Ayushmanas it would not take too much bandwidth
16:12.33GigglebyteEmperoEugene>  My /home and /root partitions are separate
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16:15.50GigglebyteEmperoEugene>  I can't get the password reset feature to work.  I entered "e", and at the end of the linux line typed init=/bin/bash, received a credential input screen, but the system isn't allowing me to enter.  This is a messed up system and someone put volatile files on here.  However, the boot didn't fail until a failed attempt at upgrading to Buster occurred. I didn't realize someone put volatile on here.  This started out as
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16:15.50Gigglebytea stable istallation.
16:21.19GigglebyteThis is the error message I receive after trying to reset the password https://paste.debian.net/1101082/
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16:22.20greycat!ifrpw
16:22.20dpkgFor GRUB: 1) press 'e' to edit the kernel setting in the grub command line (add 'init=/bin/sh' to the end of it) 2) 'fsck' your root file system, 3) 'mount -o remount,rw /', 4) 'passwd root' 5) 'mount -o remount,ro /' 6) 'reboot -d -f' (exec /sbin/init should work); For LILO: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at the LILO boot prompt (hold Shift while booting), steps 2-6 are the same; For yaboot: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at yaboot prompt.
16:22.24letterripthanks to the individual who helped me do a chroot install the other day
16:22.27GigglebyteI did try reseting grub to (hd0), but that is the only thing I have done this morning.
16:22.33letterripeverything is working fine
16:22.54letterrip!buster-backports
16:22.55dpkgSome packages intended for Bullseye (Debian 11) but recompiled for use with Buster (Debian 10) can be found in the buster-backports repository. See http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/ . Ask me about <bdo>, <backports>.
16:23.41letterripcan buster-backports be enabled currently? I see the directory on the ftp-server but if I add it to synaptic it complains
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16:21.19GigglebyteThis is the error message I receive after trying to reset the password https://paste.debian.net/1101082/
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16:22.20greycat!ifrpw
16:22.20dpkgFor GRUB: 1) press 'e' to edit the kernel setting in the grub command line (add 'init=/bin/sh' to the end of it) 2) 'fsck' your root file system, 3) 'mount -o remount,rw /', 4) 'passwd root' 5) 'mount -o remount,ro /' 6) 'reboot -d -f' (exec /sbin/init should work); For LILO: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at the LILO boot prompt (hold Shift while booting), steps 2-6 are the same; For yaboot: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at yaboot prompt.
16:25.54GigglebyteShould I go forward with step 3? dpkg says to 'mount -o remount,rw /'
16:22.24letterripthanks to the individual who helped me do a chroot install the other day
16:22.27GigglebyteI did try reseting grub to (hd0), but that is the only thing I have done this morning.
16:22.33letterripeverything is working fine
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16:22.54letterrip!buster-backports
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16:22.55dpkgSome packages intended for Bullseye (Debian 11) but recompiled for use with Buster (Debian 10) can be found in the buster-backports repository. See http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/ . Ask me about <bdo>, <backports>.
16:23.41letterripcan buster-backports be enabled currently? I see the directory on the ftp-server but if I add it to synaptic it complains
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16:27.00aypea[1]hah. compiling my linux kernel costs 33-57W (33W for modules - don't think it can parallelise as well as core) for 8m50s. Hmm. I could work out how much it costs me to compile a kernel from this. :)
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16:27.02greycatGigglebyte: why are you convinced that changing your root password will fix things?
16:27.20jhutchins_wkletterrip: The actual error message is a lot more useful than the simple fact that it exists.
16:27.29jhutchins_wk!backports
16:27.29dpkgA backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications.  http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch02.en.html (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), http://backports.debian.org/ .  Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>.  See also <simple sid backport>.
16:29.13letterripjhutchins_wk, was curious if it was possible currently; if not then the error message wouldn't be useful
16:25.54GigglebyteShould I go forward with step 3? dpkg says to 'mount -o remount,rw /'
16:29.26letterripjhutchins_wk, so is the answer 'yes it is possible' :)
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16:30.30Gigglebytegreycat>  I can't login,but not convinced changing the root password will fix things.
16:31.19letterripjhutchins_wk, https://paste.debian.net/1101084/
16:31.21greycatGigglebyte: the only reason to follow !ifrpw ("i forgot root's password") is if you can't login as root on a tty console, and you can't su, and you can't sudo.
16:31.42greycatGigglebyte: if the problem you have is *regular* users can't login, that's a different question.
16:27.00aypea[1]hah. compiling my linux kernel costs 33-57W (33W for modules - don't think it can parallelise as well as core) for 8m50s. Hmm. I could work out how much it costs me to compile a kernel from this. :)
16:32.15Gigglebytegreycat> What do you recommend?  I am currently at root@(none):/#
16:27.02greycatGigglebyte: why are you convinced that changing your root password will fix things?
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16:27.20jhutchins_wkletterrip: The actual error message is a lot more useful than the simple fact that it exists.
16:32.33greycatI recommend you tell us exactly what the problem is.
16:27.29jhutchins_wk!backports
16:32.44Gigglebytegreycat>  The problem I have is that regular users can't login.
16:27.29dpkgA backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications.  http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch02.en.html (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), http://backports.debian.org/ .  Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>.  See also <simple sid backport>.
16:33.18greycatOK.  But you know the root password?  Have you tried logging in as root on /dev/tty2 (Ctrl-Alt-F2) after booting normally?
16:29.13letterripjhutchins_wk, was curious if it was possible currently; if not then the error message wouldn't be useful
16:29.26letterripjhutchins_wk, so is the answer 'yes it is possible' :)
16:33.47GigglebyteNo, I will try that now.
16:34.19jhutchins_wkletterrip: Try changing "stable" to "buster".
16:34.40jhutchins_wk(You might manually edit the sources.list rather than using synaptic.)
16:30.30Gigglebytegreycat>  I can't login,but not convinced changing the root password will fix things.
16:35.02letterripjhutchins_wk, tried that also - same issue
16:35.24letterripjhutchins_wk, ok will try manually editing sources.list
16:31.19letterripjhutchins_wk, https://paste.debian.net/1101084/
16:31.21greycatGigglebyte: the only reason to follow !ifrpw ("i forgot root's password") is if you can't login as root on a tty console, and you can't su, and you can't sudo.
16:35.35Gigglebytegreycat> I can't boot normally
16:31.42greycatGigglebyte: if the problem you have is *regular* users can't login, that's a different question.
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16:32.15Gigglebytegreycat> What do you recommend?  I am currently at root@(none):/#
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16:32.33greycatI recommend you tell us exactly what the problem is.
16:36.03greycatSo "regular users can't login" was *not* a good description of the problem?  What is the actual symptom you are seeing?
16:32.44Gigglebytegreycat>  The problem I have is that regular users can't login.
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16:33.18greycatOK.  But you know the root password?  Have you tried logging in as root on /dev/tty2 (Ctrl-Alt-F2) after booting normally?
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16:37.20jhutchins_wkletterrip: I think there might not be any yet, I can't see any packages poking around on the site.
16:33.47GigglebyteNo, I will try that now.
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16:34.19jhutchins_wkletterrip: Try changing "stable" to "buster".
16:34.40jhutchins_wk(You might manually edit the sources.list rather than using synaptic.)
16:38.23jhutchins_wkletterrip: Actually, it might just not be fully configured yet, there do appear to be packages: https://backports.debian.org/changes/buster-backports.html
16:35.02letterripjhutchins_wk, tried that also - same issue
16:38.56letterripjhutchins_wk, so documentation has been updated but the backend hasn't :)
16:35.24letterripjhutchins_wk, ok will try manually editing sources.list
16:38.57jhutchins_wkletterrip: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-backports main
16:38.59letterripgotha
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16:35.35Gigglebytegreycat> I can't boot normally
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16:39.23jhutchins_wkletterrip: Possibly.  I see some documentation (the path to browse the package) isn't updated yet.
16:39.23Gigglebytegreycat>  system won't boot.  Right now I get this line that says ]Astart job is running for dev-disk-by\x2duuid-,etc.   After awhile, a boot menu shows up, but it doesn't recognize my credentials.
16:36.03greycatSo "regular users can't login" was *not* a good description of the problem?  What is the actual symptom you are seeing?
16:39.56GigglebyteI am at the login screen.
16:40.09GigglebyteDoesn't recognize my password.
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16:37.20jhutchins_wkletterrip: I think there might not be any yet, I can't see any packages poking around on the site.
16:40.53greycatSo it *does* boot, after a long delay for fsck and/or resuming from suspension/hibernation.
16:41.06greycatIf the login screen is graphical, press Ctrl-Alt-F2 to get to a console.
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16:38.23jhutchins_wkletterrip: Actually, it might just not be fully configured yet, there do appear to be packages: https://backports.debian.org/changes/buster-backports.html
16:41.34Gigglebyteok. I am on console (tty2)
16:38.56letterripjhutchins_wk, so documentation has been updated but the backend hasn't :)
16:38.57jhutchins_wkletterrip: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-backports main
16:42.00greycatcan you login as root there?
16:38.59letterripgotha
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16:39.23jhutchins_wkletterrip: Possibly.  I see some documentation (the path to browse the package) isn't updated yet.
16:39.23Gigglebytegreycat>  system won't boot.  Right now I get this line that says ]Astart job is running for dev-disk-by\x2duuid-,etc.   After awhile, a boot menu shows up, but it doesn't recognize my credentials.
16:42.38Gigglebytegreycat> no
16:39.56GigglebyteI am at the login screen.
16:40.09GigglebyteDoesn't recognize my password.
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16:43.56greycatIs it because you don't know the correct password, or is there an error message, or what happens?
16:40.53greycatSo it *does* boot, after a long delay for fsck and/or resuming from suspension/hibernation.
16:41.06greycatIf the login screen is graphical, press Ctrl-Alt-F2 to get to a console.
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16:41.34Gigglebyteok. I am on console (tty2)
16:44.37GigglebyteIt says I don't know the correct password, but the password hasn't changed.
16:45.37GigglebyteI was able to login yesterday using the recovery console
16:42.00greycatcan you login as root there?
16:45.40greycatWell, you can follow the instructions for changing root's password (the ones from the bot, earlier) and see if that helps.
16:45.55greycatWhat did you change since yesterday?
16:46.22GigglebyteThe only thing I have done since yesterday was to reset grub on (hd0)
16:46.39GigglebyteHowever, the password would not work before doing that.
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16:42.38Gigglebytegreycat> no
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16:48.25GigglebyteSo should I power off and try the "e" command?
16:43.56greycatIs it because you don't know the correct password, or is there an error message, or what happens?
16:49.21letterripdoes buster default to using zswap and or zram?
16:49.33greycatno
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16:49.40Gigglebyteok
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16:44.37GigglebyteIt says I don't know the correct password, but the password hasn't changed.
16:45.37GigglebyteI was able to login yesterday using the recovery console
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16:45.40greycatWell, you can follow the instructions for changing root's password (the ones from the bot, earlier) and see if that helps.
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16:45.55greycatWhat did you change since yesterday?
16:46.22GigglebyteThe only thing I have done since yesterday was to reset grub on (hd0)
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16:46.39GigglebyteHowever, the password would not work before doing that.
16:53.56letterriphmm - looks like it isn't enabled by default - https://wiki.debian.org/ZRam
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16:54.13greycat... which is why I said "no"
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16:54.29letterripgreycat, thought you were answering Gigglebyte
16:48.25GigglebyteSo should I power off and try the "e" command?
16:49.21letterripdoes buster default to using zswap and or zram?
16:49.33greycatno
16:49.40Gigglebyteok
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16:53.56letterriphmm - looks like it isn't enabled by default - https://wiki.debian.org/ZRam
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16:54.13greycat... which is why I said "no"
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16:54.29letterripgreycat, thought you were answering Gigglebyte
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17:02.41letterripgreycat - actually looks like zswap is [    2.541044] zswap: loaded using pool lzo/zbud; but not zram
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17:04.08greycatHmm, interesting.  Now I just have to find out what zswap is.
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17:04.27greycatwooledg:~$ man -k zswap
17:04.27greycatzswap: nothing appropriate.
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17:02.41letterripgreycat - actually looks like zswap is [    2.541044] zswap: loaded using pool lzo/zbud; but not zram
17:04.08greycatHmm, interesting.  Now I just have to find out what zswap is.
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17:04.27greycatwooledg:~$ man -k zswap
17:07.23Jade_NLStackoverflow snippet about zram/zcache - https://stackoverflow.com/questions/18437205/difference-between-zram-and-zswap
17:04.27greycatzswap: nothing appropriate.
17:07.33Jade_NLWikipedia also has articles for both.
17:07.34greycatwooledg:~$ cat /sys/module/zswap/parameters/enabled
17:07.34greycatN
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17:11.19letterripgood explanation here also - https://askubuntu.com/questions/471912/zram-vs-zswap-vs-zcache-ultimate-guide-when-to-use-which-one  -
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17:07.23Jade_NLStackoverflow snippet about zram/zcache - https://stackoverflow.com/questions/18437205/difference-between-zram-and-zswap
17:07.33Jade_NLWikipedia also has articles for both.
17:07.34greycatwooledg:~$ cat /sys/module/zswap/parameters/enabled
17:07.34greycatN
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17:11.19letterripgood explanation here also - https://askubuntu.com/questions/471912/zram-vs-zswap-vs-zcache-ultimate-guide-when-to-use-which-one  -
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17:22.23Gigglebytenvz>  You busy?
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17:29.27amrasouli79Hello I am new to Linux world and and recently I was Downloaded Debian last versian but the problem is screen rorated 90deg to right
17:22.23Gigglebytenvz>  You busy?
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17:29.59amrasouli79How I can solve this problem?
17:30.09GigglebyteI tried resetting the password for pdq, but receive an error message indicating that password pdq does not exist.  I followed instructions found at https://www.itzgeek.com/how-tos/linux/debian/how-to-reset-root-password-on-debian-9-stretch.html
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17:30.31diogenes_amrasouli79, afaik it used to be ctlr+alt+arrows
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17:32.06amrasouli79diogenes_:dose not work
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17:32.29diogenes_amrasouli79, what model pc?
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17:29.27amrasouli79Hello I am new to Linux world and and recently I was Downloaded Debian last versian but the problem is screen rorated 90deg to right
17:33.48amrasouli79diogenes_:Asus tp 550 lj. Touchscreen Display
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17:34.13maxrazerWhy can't I set "when there are other updates" (other than security) option in the "Software & Updates" tool? I'm trying to turn unattended upgrades on.
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17:29.59amrasouli79How I can solve this problem?
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17:30.09GigglebyteI tried resetting the password for pdq, but receive an error message indicating that password pdq does not exist.  I followed instructions found at https://www.itzgeek.com/how-tos/linux/debian/how-to-reset-root-password-on-debian-9-stretch.html
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17:35.37jhutchins_wkmaxrazer: I'm not sure that feature is available.
17:30.31diogenes_amrasouli79, afaik it used to be ctlr+alt+arrows
17:36.03maxrazerjhutchins_wk, But, it is there. It is a drop down menu right below it.
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17:36.13Gigglebytegreycat>  I get an error message indicating that the user doesn't exist when running passwd user at the command line. Any thoughts on how to fix this?  This is a messed up system, but I am hoping I can bootup, and get inside.
17:36.18diogenes_amrasouli79, also what DE?
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17:36.54greycatGigglebyte: So you *did* get to a command line.  Possibly using init=/bin/sh.  Well then, my next guess is that you have messed up or deleted your /etc/nsswitch.conf file.
17:32.06amrasouli79diogenes_:dose not work
17:37.07amrasouli79diogenes_:What is DE?
17:37.25Gigglebytegreycat>  What do you recommend at this point?
17:37.34diogenes_amrasouli79, DE = desktop environment.
17:37.36greycatGigglebyte: (1) does /etc/nsswitch.conf exist at all?  (2) what does grep passwd: /etc/nsswith.conf   say?
17:32.29diogenes_amrasouli79, what model pc?
17:37.38maxrazerActually I can't change the downloadable from internet options either where you select main, contrib, non-free. I did that in the sources.list file though.
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17:33.48amrasouli79diogenes_:Asus tp 550 lj. Touchscreen Display
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17:34.13maxrazerWhy can't I set "when there are other updates" (other than security) option in the "Software & Updates" tool? I'm trying to turn unattended upgrades on.
17:38.37Gigglebytegreycat>  No such file or directory
17:38.44greycatthat would be your problem, then
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17:39.02greycatYou'll need to type one in by hand, probably.  Unless you want to try transfering with a USB device or something.
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17:35.37jhutchins_wkmaxrazer: I'm not sure that feature is available.
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17:39.30amrasouli79diogenes_:Gnome
17:39.37greycatBut I wonder what *else* is missing.
17:39.53diogenes_amrasouli79, https://i.stack.imgur.com/NInKI.png
17:36.03maxrazerjhutchins_wk, But, it is there. It is a drop down menu right below it.
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17:36.13Gigglebytegreycat>  I get an error message indicating that the user doesn't exist when running passwd user at the command line. Any thoughts on how to fix this?  This is a messed up system, but I am hoping I can bootup, and get inside.
17:36.18diogenes_amrasouli79, also what DE?
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17:36.54greycatGigglebyte: So you *did* get to a command line.  Possibly using init=/bin/sh.  Well then, my next guess is that you have messed up or deleted your /etc/nsswitch.conf file.
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17:37.07amrasouli79diogenes_:What is DE?
17:37.25Gigglebytegreycat>  What do you recommend at this point?
17:37.34diogenes_amrasouli79, DE = desktop environment.
17:37.36greycatGigglebyte: (1) does /etc/nsswitch.conf exist at all?  (2) what does grep passwd: /etc/nsswith.conf   say?
17:37.38maxrazerActually I can't change the downloadable from internet options either where you select main, contrib, non-free. I did that in the sources.list file though.
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17:43.24greycatI'm not sure where to find a "regular" Debian buster nsswitch.conf file online.  There's a sample in the glibc source code, but that isn't Debian's.
17:38.37Gigglebytegreycat>  No such file or directory
17:38.44greycatthat would be your problem, then
17:39.01*** mode/#debian [+l 1601] by debhelper
17:39.02greycatYou'll need to type one in by hand, probably.  Unless you want to try transfering with a USB device or something.
17:43.44greycatI've never installed buster, so all of mine are from older releases...
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17:39.30amrasouli79diogenes_:Gnome
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17:39.37greycatBut I wonder what *else* is missing.
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17:39.53diogenes_amrasouli79, https://i.stack.imgur.com/NInKI.png
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17:45.57greycatlibc-bin postinst talks of copying from /usr/share/libc-bin/nsswitch.conf but *that* one doesn't match the glibc source one or any of mine...
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17:47.19greycatGigglebyte: unless someone has a fresh, pristine buster installation sitting around for you to copy from, you get to choose whether to use /usr/share/libc-bin/nsswitch.conf or https://sources.debian.org/src/glibc/2.28-10/nss/nsswitch.conf/ or one of mine from a pre-buster installation
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17:43.24greycatI'm not sure where to find a "regular" Debian buster nsswitch.conf file online.  There's a sample in the glibc source code, but that isn't Debian's.
17:49.39LtLi'm happy to pastebin a buster file albeit it is a stretch->buster file, just ask. i doubt theres much of a diff
17:43.44greycatI've never installed buster, so all of mine are from older releases...
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17:50.03diogenes_here is mine: http://dpaste.com/2K9HTWH
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17:50.07greycatyeah, that's my problem as well -- all of mine are from stretch or older, after 1 or more upgrades and manual edits
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17:50.40greycatGigglebyte: in any case, *any* of the choices you've been given is better than nthing.
17:45.57greycatlibc-bin postinst talks of copying from /usr/share/libc-bin/nsswitch.conf but *that* one doesn't match the glibc source one or any of mine...
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17:51.33Gigglebytegreycat> I think staying with the /etc/nsswith.conf would be the best option since this is part of stretch if my understanding is correct, and I will accept your file.
17:51.55greycatGigglebyte: you're on stretch?
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17:52.22Gigglebytegreycat>  I am on stretch. The messed up system occurred during a failed upgrade to buster.
17:52.40greycatmust've been a *hell* of a failure, to delete nsswitch.conf
17:47.19greycatGigglebyte: unless someone has a fresh, pristine buster installation sitting around for you to copy from, you get to choose whether to use /usr/share/libc-bin/nsswitch.conf or https://sources.debian.org/src/glibc/2.28-10/nss/nsswitch.conf/ or one of mine from a pre-buster installation
17:52.41diogenes_alternatively, one can always fire up one of these images and see all the default files: https://distrotest.net/Debian
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17:53.01greycatGigglebyte: if you don't use NIS, the one diogenes_ posted <http://dpaste.com/2K9HTWH> seems OK.
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17:53.45Gigglebyteso its ok to create this file with the vi command at root?
17:53.45LtLdiogenes_: your file differs from mine, mine mentions systemd fyi, i'm fairly sure that is importand
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17:49.39LtLi'm happy to pastebin a buster file albeit it is a stretch->buster file, just ask. i doubt theres much of a diff
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17:50.03diogenes_here is mine: http://dpaste.com/2K9HTWH
17:50.07greycatyeah, that's my problem as well -- all of mine are from stretch or older, after 1 or more upgrades and manual edits
17:50.40greycatGigglebyte: in any case, *any* of the choices you've been given is better than nthing.
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17:51.33Gigglebytegreycat> I think staying with the /etc/nsswith.conf would be the best option since this is part of stretch if my understanding is correct, and I will accept your file.
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17:51.55greycatGigglebyte: you're on stretch?
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17:52.22Gigglebytegreycat>  I am on stretch. The messed up system occurred during a failed upgrade to buster.
17:52.40greycatmust've been a *hell* of a failure, to delete nsswitch.conf
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17:52.41diogenes_alternatively, one can always fire up one of these images and see all the default files: https://distrotest.net/Debian
17:59.12uioHi. I'd like to get pseudo-random lowercase + spaces ouput from a .wav file. Could you point me in the right direction?
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17:59.55amrasouli79diogenes_:What's happend? Do you know any way
18:00.17diogenes_amrasouli79, i had given you a picture.
17:53.01greycatGigglebyte: if you don't use NIS, the one diogenes_ posted <http://dpaste.com/2K9HTWH> seems OK.
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17:53.45Gigglebyteso its ok to create this file with the vi command at root?
18:00.31diogenes_<diogenes_> amrasouli79, https://i.stack.imgur.com/NInKI.png
17:53.45LtLdiogenes_: your file differs from mine, mine mentions systemd fyi, i'm fairly sure that is importand
18:00.36greycatuio: *what*
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18:01.07greycatAre you trying to do the audio version of a lava lamp random number generator?
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18:01.20uiogreycat, Sure. Any ideas?
18:01.50greycatFor starters, don't ask #debian how to rig up your rube goldberg audio lava lamp RNG.
18:02.05amrasouli79diogenes_:This option  will lock screen rotation but before lock I need to rotate my screen
18:02.07greycatPick your favorite programming language and implement it in that language, and ask that language's channel if you need help with it.
18:02.37diogenes_amrasouli79, try: xrandr -o normal
18:03.55amrasouli79diogenes_: I did it. But dose not work.
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18:04.12uiogreycat, It's okay if you don't want to help :) I am using Debian, and pretty sure that it's possible on Debian, thus I fail to see how it is question that should not be asked here.
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18:04.23amrasouli79diogenes_:I think xrandr has a problem
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18:04.24diogenes_amrasouli79, what shows: echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE
18:04.29greycatIt's off topic here because it's development of a new project, not Debian technical support.
17:59.12uioHi. I'd like to get pseudo-random lowercase + spaces ouput from a .wav file. Could you point me in the right direction?
18:04.52*** join/#debian oish (~charlie@228.25.169.217.in-addr.arpa)
17:59.55amrasouli79diogenes_:What's happend? Do you know any way
18:05.21uiogreycat, There may already be such a program that neither of us know about.
18:00.17diogenes_amrasouli79, i had given you a picture.
18:05.29Gigglebytegreycat>   Do I need to reboot after creating the nsswitch.conf?  Also, is that file created verbatim?  Or do I need to edit it?
18:00.31diogenes_<diogenes_> amrasouli79, https://i.stack.imgur.com/NInKI.png
18:00.36greycatuio: *what*
18:05.45amrasouli79diogenes_:wayland
18:05.58greycatGigglebyte: it's a text file.  Enter whatever you feel is the appropriate content, and save it to disk.  It should be owned by root, rw-r--r-- (chmod 644).
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18:05.58diogenes_amrasouli79, no wonder then, try these:
18:01.07greycatAre you trying to do the audio version of a lava lamp random number generator?
18:06.00diogenes_gsettings set org.gnome.settings-daemon.peripherals.touchscreen orientation-lock true
18:01.20uiogreycat, Sure. Any ideas?
18:06.01diogenes_gsettings set org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.orientation active false
18:01.50greycatFor starters, don't ask #debian how to rig up your rube goldberg audio lava lamp RNG.
18:06.02uioSo if any one has any thoughts, I'm open to ideas:
18:02.05amrasouli79diogenes_:This option  will lock screen rotation but before lock I need to rotate my screen
18:06.05uio*!
18:02.07greycatPick your favorite programming language and implement it in that language, and ask that language's channel if you need help with it.
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18:02.37diogenes_amrasouli79, try: xrandr -o normal
18:03.55amrasouli79diogenes_: I did it. But dose not work.
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18:04.12uiogreycat, It's okay if you don't want to help :) I am using Debian, and pretty sure that it's possible on Debian, thus I fail to see how it is question that should not be asked here.
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18:04.23amrasouli79diogenes_:I think xrandr has a problem
18:07.35Gigglebytegreycat>  What to put in the file is what I was questioning.  I have run the chomd 644 command on it.
18:04.24diogenes_amrasouli79, what shows: echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE
18:04.29greycatIt's off topic here because it's development of a new project, not Debian technical support.
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18:05.21uiogreycat, There may already be such a program that neither of us know about.
18:05.29Gigglebytegreycat>   Do I need to reboot after creating the nsswitch.conf?  Also, is that file created verbatim?  Or do I need to edit it?
18:08.18greycatGigglebyte: You were given three choices.  Maybe more.  Pick one.
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18:05.45amrasouli79diogenes_:wayland
18:11.00*** join/#debian Texou (~Texou@unaffiliated/texou)
18:05.58greycatGigglebyte: it's a text file.  Enter whatever you feel is the appropriate content, and save it to disk.  It should be owned by root, rw-r--r-- (chmod 644).
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18:05.58diogenes_amrasouli79, no wonder then, try these:
18:06.00diogenes_gsettings set org.gnome.settings-daemon.peripherals.touchscreen orientation-lock true
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18:06.01diogenes_gsettings set org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.orientation active false
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18:06.02uioSo if any one has any thoughts, I'm open to ideas:
18:06.05uio*!
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18:07.23*** join/#debian Guest19853 (~Hypfer@ip4d17430f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
18:12.35GigglebyteDon't want to sound dense, but I selected http://dpaste.com/2K9HTWH
18:13.00greycatGigglebyte: save it to disk, then see if "id root" works, and then see if "id yourusername" works.
18:07.35Gigglebytegreycat>  What to put in the file is what I was questioning.  I have run the chomd 644 command on it.
18:07.42*** join/#debian peterbecich (~user@198.11.8.226)
18:13.29greycator if you want to be fancy, "getent passwd root"
18:13.58greycatwe still don't know what *other* damage your system has suffered
18:08.18greycatGigglebyte: You were given three choices.  Maybe more.  Pick one.
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18:14.27Gigglebytegreycat>  On bootup swap file isn't working.
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18:14.55greycatthat's configured in /etc/fstab normally
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18:17.19Gigglebytegreycat>  I entered id pdq and received an error no such user
18:12.35GigglebyteDon't want to sound dense, but I selected http://dpaste.com/2K9HTWH
18:17.39greycatHow about root?
18:17.50GigglebyteI created the nsswitch.conf file exact as it is found at http://dpaste.com/2K9HTWH
18:13.00greycatGigglebyte: save it to disk, then see if "id root" works, and then see if "id yourusername" works.
18:17.56greycatDoes root exist?
18:13.29greycator if you want to be fancy, "getent passwd root"
18:13.58greycatwe still don't know what *other* damage your system has suffered
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18:14.27Gigglebytegreycat>  On bootup swap file isn't working.
18:14.37*** join/#debian trifolio6 (~h@115.pool85-57-72.dynamic.orange.es)
18:18.54Gigglebytegreycat>  I entered id root and get:  uid=0(root) gid=0(root) groups=0(root)
18:14.55greycatthat's configured in /etc/fstab normally
18:19.03greycatGood!  That's an improvement.
18:19.28greycatNow, to find out what's wrong with your 'pdq' user, you'll have to read and/or modify the /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow and /etc/group files.
18:19.50Gigglebyteok, standby
18:19.56amrasouli79diogenes_: http://s6.uplod.ir/i/00959/9lhzagefzyen.jpg
18:17.19Gigglebytegreycat>  I entered id pdq and received an error no such user
18:21.32diogenes_amrasouli79, ok, it would seem that wayland needs a bit more work in order to handle screen rotations so, logout, pick gnome on xorg session, as soon as you log there run: echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE, it should show: X11, then, run: xrandr -o normal.
18:21.34amrasouli79diogenes_:This the result
18:21.51diogenes_read above ^^^
18:17.39greycatHow about root?
18:17.50GigglebyteI created the nsswitch.conf file exact as it is found at http://dpaste.com/2K9HTWH
18:22.02GigglebyteI am in the /etc/passwd file.  What should I be looking for in that?
18:17.56greycatDoes root exist?
18:22.07*** join/#debian likevinyl (~likevinyl@unaffiliated/likevinyl)
18:22.37greycatA valid entry for your user.
18:23.42*** join/#debian namho (~namho@cpe-76-170-177-252.socal.res.rr.com)
18:24.31GigglebyteThe user is pdq, and I don't see any entry for that.
18:18.54Gigglebytegreycat>  I entered id root and get:  uid=0(root) gid=0(root) groups=0(root)
18:19.03greycatGood!  That's an improvement.
18:24.52greycatThen get out of there, and figure out what you want to do.
18:25.24namhoHello - I am on Debian Sid and have been seeing some weird issues with Bluetooth. The mice seem to have input lag - the cursor doesn't move smoothly. The weird part is that devices I had paired a while ago works ok, but newer ones do not. I unpaired and re-paired one that was working fine, and it does not work well once re-paired.
18:19.28greycatNow, to find out what's wrong with your 'pdq' user, you'll have to read and/or modify the /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow and /etc/group files.
18:19.50Gigglebyteok, standby
18:25.43amrasouli79diogenes_
18:19.56amrasouli79diogenes_: http://s6.uplod.ir/i/00959/9lhzagefzyen.jpg
18:25.43Gigglebytegreycat> You talking to me?
18:21.32diogenes_amrasouli79, ok, it would seem that wayland needs a bit more work in order to handle screen rotations so, logout, pick gnome on xorg session, as soon as you log there run: echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE, it should show: X11, then, run: xrandr -o normal.
18:25.53greycatYes.
18:21.34amrasouli79diogenes_:This the result
18:21.51diogenes_read above ^^^
18:22.02GigglebyteI am in the /etc/passwd file.  What should I be looking for in that?
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18:22.37greycatA valid entry for your user.
18:26.12diogenes_amrasouli79, what?
18:26.17greycatFigure out what the hell happened to your system, why your /etc/passwd file is ENTIRELY MISSING your user's name, and what you want to do now.
18:26.36greycatReinstalling from scratch is one of your options.
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18:26.57greycatContinuing to fix EVERY issue in the known universe one by one is another.
18:24.31GigglebyteThe user is pdq, and I don't see any entry for that.
18:27.06greycatRestoring /etc from your last backup is a third.
18:24.52greycatThen get out of there, and figure out what you want to do.
18:27.28amrasouli79diogenes_:I can logout because first I need to install it. So I will install it and then will send you an ask for help. ok?
18:25.24namhoHello - I am on Debian Sid and have been seeing some weird issues with Bluetooth. The mice seem to have input lag - the cursor doesn't move smoothly. The weird part is that devices I had paired a while ago works ok, but newer ones do not. I unpaired and re-paired one that was working fine, and it does not work well once re-paired.
18:25.43amrasouli79diogenes_
18:27.47GigglebyteAt this point just getting in and copying a directory is all I hope for.
18:25.43Gigglebytegreycat> You talking to me?
18:27.58amrasouli79diogenes_:First I should install Debian
18:25.53greycatYes.
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18:28.19SerajewelKSGigglebyte: that's easy enough by booting from the installer or another live environment and copying the directory to external storage
18:28.22GigglebyteI am in /etc/shadow, and again don't see any pdq. However in both the shadow and password files I find a file by myfirst name.
18:28.53diogenes_amrasouli79, i'm not sure how long i still gonna be here, but you have nothing to worry about because there is a lot of people who could help you and besides, after the installation things might be even running well without issues.
18:28.58SerajewelKSGigglebyte: also this is probably a valuable lesson to start taking backups of stuff you care about
18:29.16greycatGigglebyte: so you're saying that you were trying to use the wrong user name all along?
18:26.12diogenes_amrasouli79, what?
18:26.17greycatFigure out what the hell happened to your system, why your /etc/passwd file is ENTIRELY MISSING your user's name, and what you want to do now.
18:29.19SerajewelKSdata that isn't backed up is data you don't mind losing
18:30.01amrasouli79diogenes_:Yes maybe. So much thank for your Help.
18:26.36greycatReinstalling from scratch is one of your options.
18:30.16diogenes_yw
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18:30.24Gigglebytegreycat> No, I am using the right user name. I am just reporting what I see.
18:30.40GigglebyteI was able to get into the system yesterday.
18:26.57greycatContinuing to fix EVERY issue in the known universe one by one is another.
18:30.55greycatif you believe that you at one time had a user named 'pdq', but there is not a 'pdq' in /etc/passwd now, then you get to choose how to deal with this
18:27.06greycatRestoring /etc from your last backup is a third.
18:27.28amrasouli79diogenes_:I can logout because first I need to install it. So I will install it and then will send you an ask for help. ok?
18:27.47GigglebyteAt this point just getting in and copying a directory is all I hope for.
18:27.58amrasouli79diogenes_:First I should install Debian
18:28.17*** join/#debian format_c (~format_c@unaffiliated/format-c/x-8927423)
18:28.19SerajewelKSGigglebyte: that's easy enough by booting from the installer or another live environment and copying the directory to external storage
18:31.17SerajewelKSGigglebyte: what is the output of 'ls -ld /home/pdq'
18:28.22GigglebyteI am in /etc/shadow, and again don't see any pdq. However in both the shadow and password files I find a file by myfirst name.
18:28.53diogenes_amrasouli79, i'm not sure how long i still gonna be here, but you have nothing to worry about because there is a lot of people who could help you and besides, after the installation things might be even running well without issues.
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18:28.58SerajewelKSGigglebyte: also this is probably a valuable lesson to start taking backups of stuff you care about
18:29.16greycatGigglebyte: so you're saying that you were trying to use the wrong user name all along?
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18:29.19SerajewelKSdata that isn't backed up is data you don't mind losing
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18:30.01amrasouli79diogenes_:Yes maybe. So much thank for your Help.
18:30.16diogenes_yw
18:30.24Gigglebytegreycat> No, I am using the right user name. I am just reporting what I see.
18:30.40GigglebyteI was able to get into the system yesterday.
18:30.55greycatif you believe that you at one time had a user named 'pdq', but there is not a 'pdq' in /etc/passwd now, then you get to choose how to deal with this
18:33.25GigglebyteSerajeweLKS>  Standby and I will run it. I tried booting from stick, and it didn't happen
18:31.17SerajewelKSGigglebyte: what is the output of 'ls -ld /home/pdq'
18:34.26SerajewelKSthis "damage" is far too specific to be random hardware issues
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18:36.28GigglebyteSerajeweLKS> Damage occured from a failed Buster upgrade, and I wasn't aware that someone messed with the system, and had installed Volatile files on it.
18:37.00SerajewelKS_always_ backup before a release upgrade
18:37.57GigglebyteSerajeweLKS>  Igetan error message cannot access /home/pdq:  No such file or directory.
18:38.15SerajewelKSall the evidence points to this user never existing
18:38.24greycatI'm still assuming this 'pdq' thing is a hallucination and was never a real user on this system.
18:38.31SerajewelKSOR the system was wiped
18:33.25GigglebyteSerajeweLKS>  Standby and I will run it. I tried booting from stick, and it didn't happen
18:39.01*** mode/#debian [+l 1595] by debhelper
18:39.09SerajewelKSis it possible that the volume(s) got reformatted and an install was interrupted?
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18:39.34SerajewelKSi'm trying to think how a system would be missing nsswitch.conf except maybe the install was killed at a specific point
18:34.26SerajewelKSthis "damage" is far too specific to be random hardware issues
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18:39.58SerajewelKSis it possible that you're not even looking at your system, but at some live cd/usb environment?
18:40.07GigglebyteIncidentally there were two different boot optionson this system as of yesterday:  one for 5.2.0.0 and 4.9   The only thing I did since yesterday was to install grub on (hd0), and after that one of the boot menus was deleted.  At this point I think the best approach is to try booting from a live CD, and if that doesn't work try to copy the data at the command line.
18:36.28GigglebyteSerajeweLKS> Damage occured from a failed Buster upgrade, and I wasn't aware that someone messed with the system, and had installed Volatile files on it.
18:40.09jellyGigglebyte: btw which filesystem type is used for the / filesystem?
18:40.10greycat14:28  Gigglebyte> [...] in both the shadow and password files I find a file by myfirst name.
18:37.00SerajewelKS_always_ backup before a release upgrade
18:40.30SerajewelKSGigglebyte: 5.2!?  that's not even in buster
18:37.57GigglebyteSerajeweLKS>  Igetan error message cannot access /home/pdq:  No such file or directory.
18:41.21greycatyou might have had multiple Linux installations on this system, one with user pdq and the other with user "myfirst name"
18:38.15SerajewelKSall the evidence points to this user never existing
18:41.32GigglebyteSerajewelKS>  I am not looking at a live cd.
18:38.24greycatI'm still assuming this 'pdq' thing is a hallucination and was never a real user on this system.
18:38.31SerajewelKSOR the system was wiped
18:41.45SerajewelKSmultiple installs is also plausible, even likely at this point
18:41.48Gigglebytegreycat> No, pdq has been the user from the beginning.
18:41.54greycatat some point you're going to have to figure out *what you did* because we can't possibly know
18:39.01*** mode/#debian [+l 1595] by debhelper
18:39.09SerajewelKSis it possible that the volume(s) got reformatted and an install was interrupted?
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18:39.34SerajewelKSi'm trying to think how a system would be missing nsswitch.conf except maybe the install was killed at a specific point
18:39.58SerajewelKSis it possible that you're not even looking at your system, but at some live cd/usb environment?
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18:44.00GigglebyteTrying to get into the bios so that I can boot off of a cd
18:40.07GigglebyteIncidentally there were two different boot optionson this system as of yesterday:  one for 5.2.0.0 and 4.9   The only thing I did since yesterday was to install grub on (hd0), and after that one of the boot menus was deleted.  At this point I think the best approach is to try booting from a live CD, and if that doesn't work try to copy the data at the command line.
18:40.09jellyGigglebyte: btw which filesystem type is used for the / filesystem?
18:40.10greycat14:28  Gigglebyte> [...] in both the shadow and password files I find a file by myfirst name.
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18:40.30SerajewelKSGigglebyte: 5.2!?  that's not even in buster
18:48.16GigglebyteHmm..   Still not booting from memory stick.
18:41.21greycatyou might have had multiple Linux installations on this system, one with user pdq and the other with user "myfirst name"
18:50.31Gigglebyteok.  I got the memory stick interface to come up. Should I select advanced options?
18:41.32GigglebyteSerajewelKS>  I am not looking at a live cd.
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18:41.45SerajewelKSmultiple installs is also plausible, even likely at this point
18:41.48Gigglebytegreycat> No, pdq has been the user from the beginning.
18:41.54greycatat some point you're going to have to figure out *what you did* because we can't possibly know
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18:44.00GigglebyteTrying to get into the bios so that I can boot off of a cd
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18:56.52GigglebyteI am in recovery mode, and prompted for a shell in /dev/sda4
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18:48.16GigglebyteHmm..   Still not booting from memory stick.
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18:50.31Gigglebyteok.  I got the memory stick interface to come up. Should I select advanced options?
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19:03.57GigglebyteThis memory stick is a bit old so I am not totally.  I am in recovery mode, and just curious what I should select for choose a root file system?
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18:56.52GigglebyteI am in recovery mode, and prompted for a shell in /dev/sda4
19:04.38Lady_Aleenadvs, thank you for thinking of me earlier. 8)
19:04.59xaeB5when trying to install debian i get this error in the mirror section: "an error has been detected while trying to use the specified debian archive mirror"
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19:06.38CtrlCEver since I upgraded my debian from 9 to 10, it seems to have slowed down.
19:06.48brutseranyone can help me with a proper tutorial for setting up signed kernel+initrd, i am following right now this retired wiki and i rather have a more up-to-date article: https://www.coreboot.org/GRUB2#Signed_kernels
19:06.54CtrlCI removed xserver-xorg-video-intel which helped a lot but it is still slow.
19:07.27CtrlCI don't see any process that take all the resources.
19:07.36nvzCtrlC: buster is beefier than stretch was, are you low on resources?
19:07.38brutserthe kernel and initrd are by default named: initrd.img-4.19.0-6-amd64 for example, if I sign them, i can just use this long version included filename, or should i rename them or create ln to them?
19:03.57GigglebyteThis memory stick is a bit old so I am not totally.  I am in recovery mode, and just curious what I should select for choose a root file system?
19:07.45nvz!de usage
19:04.06*** join/#debian xaeB5 (xaeB5@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/xaeb5)
19:07.45dpkgi heard de usage is The HDD/RAM of the 7 DE on Stretch: GNOME 4.2G 726M, KDE 4.1G 604M, Cinnamon 3.7G 482M, MATE 3.1G 215M, LXQt 3.1G 184M, LXDE 3.0G 180M, XFCE 2.9G 226M. For Buster usage, package lists, and screenshots of the same see http://iamcowhearme.mooo.com/buster
19:04.38Lady_Aleenadvs, thank you for thinking of me earlier. 8)
19:08.01CtrlCnvz, I wouldn't say that low. 4 cores, i3, and 4 GB of Ram.
19:04.59xaeB5when trying to install debian i get this error in the mirror section: "an error has been detected while trying to use the specified debian archive mirror"
19:08.05nvzif you look at my site there, and compare those stretch values to those I recorded on 10.1..
19:08.07CtrlCshouldn't be that hard.
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19:08.34nvzCtrlC: are you using a DE?
19:08.43CtrlCnvz, gnome classic
19:08.44*** join/#debian Ycarus (~Ycarus@2001:bc8:47b0:1b0b::1)
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19:08.56nvzCtrlC: GNOME3 in classic mode or MATE?
19:06.25*** join/#debian brutser (51f44354@84.67-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
19:09.11CtrlCnvz, the first.
19:06.38CtrlCEver since I upgraded my debian from 9 to 10, it seems to have slowed down.
19:06.48brutseranyone can help me with a proper tutorial for setting up signed kernel+initrd, i am following right now this retired wiki and i rather have a more up-to-date article: https://www.coreboot.org/GRUB2#Signed_kernels
19:09.29nvzCtrlC: you should try mate instead.. as you can see from that factoid above, even on stretch, gnome was the beefiest
19:06.54CtrlCI removed xserver-xorg-video-intel which helped a lot but it is still slow.
19:09.48CtrlCI was fine with it before the upgrade.
19:09.56CtrlCI really like this gnome classic thing
19:09.59nvzCtrlC: mate is a fork of gnome 2.x and its a good DE, its one of the lightest we have
19:07.27CtrlCI don't see any process that take all the resources.
19:10.33CtrlCI don't want to break stuff and configure GUI for hours. :(
19:10.40CtrlCI had this since like two years ago.
19:07.36nvzCtrlC: buster is beefier than stretch was, are you low on resources?
19:07.38brutserthe kernel and initrd are by default named: initrd.img-4.19.0-6-amd64 for example, if I sign them, i can just use this long version included filename, or should i rename them or create ln to them?
19:11.02nvzCtrlC: well I'm not saying you have to, but its worth a try.. and you can have both installed.. you can install all 7 if you wanted to
19:07.45nvz!de usage
19:07.45dpkgi heard de usage is The HDD/RAM of the 7 DE on Stretch: GNOME 4.2G 726M, KDE 4.1G 604M, Cinnamon 3.7G 482M, MATE 3.1G 215M, LXQt 3.1G 184M, LXDE 3.0G 180M, XFCE 2.9G 226M. For Buster usage, package lists, and screenshots of the same see http://iamcowhearme.mooo.com/buster
19:11.10nvzCtrlC: you just switch between them at the login screen
19:11.21CtrlCyeah I'm giving it a shot to see how it goes.
19:08.01CtrlCnvz, I wouldn't say that low. 4 cores, i3, and 4 GB of Ram.
19:11.34nvzCtrlC: since you have gnome, they share a lot of dependencies, it probably doesnt need to install a whole lot more
19:08.05nvzif you look at my site there, and compare those stretch values to those I recorded on 10.1..
19:08.07CtrlCshouldn't be that hard.
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19:08.34nvzCtrlC: are you using a DE?
19:08.43CtrlCnvz, gnome classic
19:12.01nvzCtrlC: I have MATE and XFCE on this machine and I think removing XFCE only saves me like 25MB iirc.. for example
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19:08.56nvzCtrlC: GNOME3 in classic mode or MATE?
19:12.17CtrlCnot really worried about HDD space.
19:12.21nvzfires up his gnome VM
19:09.11CtrlCnvz, the first.
19:12.24CtrlCI got like 1000GB free
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19:09.29nvzCtrlC: you should try mate instead.. as you can see from that factoid above, even on stretch, gnome was the beefiest
19:09.48CtrlCI was fine with it before the upgrade.
19:09.56CtrlCI really like this gnome classic thing
19:09.59nvzCtrlC: mate is a fork of gnome 2.x and its a good DE, its one of the lightest we have
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19:10.33CtrlCI don't want to break stuff and configure GUI for hours. :(
19:13.55nvzCtrlC: yeah my gnome vm when i tell it to install task-mate-desktop says 272 new packages, 312mb archives, 1201mb additional disk space used
19:14.01CtrlCinstalling mate-desktop-enviorment-core
19:10.40CtrlCI had this since like two years ago.
19:14.11CtrlC52 mb of archive
19:11.02nvzCtrlC: well I'm not saying you have to, but its worth a try.. and you can have both installed.. you can install all 7 if you wanted to
19:14.23CtrlCAfter this operation, 310 MB of additional disk space will be used.
19:14.52nvzCtrlC: that may be better anyhow.. since you like what you're using for the most part.. you'll get less extras and can still use some of the things you're used to
19:11.10nvzCtrlC: you just switch between them at the login screen
19:11.21CtrlCyeah I'm giving it a shot to see how it goes.
19:15.00CtrlCyup
19:11.34nvzCtrlC: since you have gnome, they share a lot of dependencies, it probably doesnt need to install a whole lot more
19:15.02bionade24How can I block apt hooks during installation?
19:15.03nvzCtrlC: are you familiar at all with the menu system or desktop files?
19:15.21CtrlCnvz, last I messed with these stuff was years ago
19:12.01nvzCtrlC: I have MATE and XFCE on this machine and I think removing XFCE only saves me like 25MB iirc.. for example
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19:12.17CtrlCnot really worried about HDD space.
19:16.30nvzCtrlC: ah well freedesktop.org has a specification for ShowOnlyIn= in the desktop files that can make certain apps only appear in a particular DE if you dont want your menus cluttered in either DE, you can copy .desktop files out of /usr/share/applications/ into ~/.local/share/applications/ and add in that directive
19:12.21nvzfires up his gnome VM
19:12.24CtrlCI got like 1000GB free
19:16.44nvzyou can probably do this with menulibre too but I'm not sure how, I never tried it
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19:17.04CtrlCcool! didn't know those files can be used that way.
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19:17.09CtrlCkinda expected though. haha
19:17.26CtrlCI can't remember last time I opened a menu either really. :D
19:17.51CtrlCif won't be slow and looks like gnome classic, I'll be fine.
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19:17.56CtrlClook*
19:18.09nvzCtrlC: yes you can move them to your homedir to make changes to them for your user, and the ShowOnlyIn= is particularly useful cause each de has its own utilities.. i.e gnome/mate:  nautilus/caja  gedit/pluma ..etc
19:13.55nvzCtrlC: yeah my gnome vm when i tell it to install task-mate-desktop says 272 new packages, 312mb archives, 1201mb additional disk space used
19:14.01CtrlCinstalling mate-desktop-enviorment-core
19:18.20nvzfileroller/engrampa.. lots of duplicates
19:14.11CtrlC52 mb of archive
19:18.39CtrlCcaja is file manager? nice. I hate nautilus
19:14.23CtrlCAfter this operation, 310 MB of additional disk space will be used.
19:18.40CtrlCso slow.
19:14.52nvzCtrlC: that may be better anyhow.. since you like what you're using for the most part.. you'll get less extras and can still use some of the things you're used to
19:18.59nvzCtrlC: its very customizable and easily so.. just clicking around the UI..
19:15.00CtrlCyup
19:15.02bionade24How can I block apt hooks during installation?
19:19.22CtrlCok logging out to check it out. thanks nvz see you in a bit I guess
19:15.03nvzCtrlC: are you familiar at all with the menu system or desktop files?
19:19.26jhutchins_wkThat's interesting, I've seen benchmarks saying 10 is faster than 9.
19:19.34nvzCtrlC: PCmanfm is a good well featured slim file manager that closely matches the UI and features of caja/nautilus
19:15.21CtrlCnvz, last I messed with these stuff was years ago
19:20.06nvzjhutchins_wk: yeah well my stuff there isn't a benchmark, just giving new users an idea of the HDD/RAM usage, package lists, etc.. benchmarks are a whole different ballgame :P
19:20.18brutseranother question: on my /boot partition i have next to initrd and kernel files called: config-4.19.0-6-amd64 and System.map-4.19.0-6-amd64 - if i delete those files, they are generated upon boot? they are not critical right?
19:20.53nvzbrutser: is your boot that small you're deleting tiny files?
19:21.31brutsernvz: no, i just ask if they are critical and if they are generated upon boot
19:16.30nvzCtrlC: ah well freedesktop.org has a specification for ShowOnlyIn= in the desktop files that can make certain apps only appear in a particular DE if you dont want your menus cluttered in either DE, you can copy .desktop files out of /usr/share/applications/ into ~/.local/share/applications/ and add in that directive
19:16.44nvzyou can probably do this with menulibre too but I'm not sure how, I never tried it
19:17.04CtrlCcool! didn't know those files can be used that way.
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19:22.03greycatbrutser: they are NOT generated on boot.
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19:17.09CtrlCkinda expected though. haha
19:17.26CtrlCI can't remember last time I opened a menu either really. :D
19:22.14brutsergreycat: ok
19:17.51CtrlCif won't be slow and looks like gnome classic, I'll be fine.
19:22.19nvzbrutser: its not a good idea to delete root owned files from packages for no good reason.. they're only 3.5MB
19:17.56CtrlClook*
19:22.26nvzcombined
19:18.09nvzCtrlC: yes you can move them to your homedir to make changes to them for your user, and the ShowOnlyIn= is particularly useful cause each de has its own utilities.. i.e gnome/mate:  nautilus/caja  gedit/pluma ..etc
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19:18.20nvzfileroller/engrampa.. lots of duplicates
19:22.34greycatwooledg:~$ dpkg -L linux-image-4.19.0-6-amd64 | grep config-
19:22.35greycat/boot/config-4.19.0-6-amd64
19:18.39CtrlCcaja is file manager? nice. I hate nautilus
19:22.39greycatand so on.
19:18.40CtrlCso slow.
19:18.59nvzCtrlC: its very customizable and easily so.. just clicking around the UI..
19:23.25brutsernvz, greycat: i have an existing system where i want to point grub to kernel+initrd on newly created partition, so that is not /boot partition during setup - 1. is that possible? 2. do i need those files i just mentioned?
19:19.22CtrlCok logging out to check it out. thanks nvz see you in a bit I guess
19:23.39greycatYou can probably survive without them, but if you ever want them back, you'd need to reinstall the linux-image-* package, or at least extract them out by hand.
19:19.26jhutchins_wkThat's interesting, I've seen benchmarks saying 10 is faster than 9.
19:19.34nvzCtrlC: PCmanfm is a good well featured slim file manager that closely matches the UI and features of caja/nautilus
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19:23.44nvzI'm not sure what if anything uses the config, and thats usually available via /proc/ anyhow but I'd imagine possibly dkms or such would use it and grub probably uses the system map
19:20.06nvzjhutchins_wk: yeah well my stuff there isn't a benchmark, just giving new users an idea of the HDD/RAM usage, package lists, etc.. benchmarks are a whole different ballgame :P
19:23.46brutseri can test i guess, but i just try to understand
19:20.18brutseranother question: on my /boot partition i have next to initrd and kernel files called: config-4.19.0-6-amd64 and System.map-4.19.0-6-amd64 - if i delete those files, they are generated upon boot? they are not critical right?
19:20.53nvzbrutser: is your boot that small you're deleting tiny files?
19:23.58CtrlCon mate now
19:21.31brutsernvz: no, i just ask if they are critical and if they are generated upon boot
19:24.02CtrlCeverything looks too white!
19:24.16CtrlCwhere's my black theme! black themes matter!
19:24.52brutsergreycat: ok that pretty much tells me they are not critical, i can continue my test without them and see where that brings me
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19:22.03greycatbrutser: they are NOT generated on boot.
19:25.38nvzCtrlC: haha..  http://rant.farted.net/mate-dark.png
19:22.14brutsergreycat: ok
19:22.19nvzbrutser: its not a good idea to delete root owned files from packages for no good reason.. they're only 3.5MB
19:25.54nvzCtrlC: if you'd like and gimme a second I can tar up my themes and push them to the server for you
19:22.26nvzcombined
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19:22.34greycatwooledg:~$ dpkg -L linux-image-4.19.0-6-amd64 | grep config-
19:26.49CtrlCI'll try something. don't bother
19:22.35greycat/boot/config-4.19.0-6-amd64
19:22.39greycatand so on.
19:27.21nvzits really not that much trouble.. :P
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19:23.25brutsernvz, greycat: i have an existing system where i want to point grub to kernel+initrd on newly created partition, so that is not /boot partition during setup - 1. is that possible? 2. do i need those files i just mentioned?
19:23.39greycatYou can probably survive without them, but if you ever want them back, you'd need to reinstall the linux-image-* package, or at least extract them out by hand.
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19:23.44nvzI'm not sure what if anything uses the config, and thats usually available via /proc/ anyhow but I'd imagine possibly dkms or such would use it and grub probably uses the system map
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19:23.46brutseri can test i guess, but i just try to understand
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19:29.17xaeB5can you set a manual IP instead of dhcp in the debian installer?
19:23.58CtrlCon mate now
19:29.42CtrlCok got it dark actually.
19:24.02CtrlCeverything looks too white!
19:24.16CtrlCwhere's my black theme! black themes matter!
19:29.47CtrlCThanks.
19:24.52brutsergreycat: ok that pretty much tells me they are not critical, i can continue my test without them and see where that brings me
19:29.55dvsxaeB5, yet
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19:29.57CtrlCstill a little slow. and I just rebooted
19:25.38nvzCtrlC: haha..  http://rant.farted.net/mate-dark.png
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19:25.54nvzCtrlC: if you'd like and gimme a second I can tar up my themes and push them to the server for you
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19:32.26xaeB5dvs: i never got an option to set that manually
19:26.49CtrlCI'll try something. don't bother
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19:27.21nvzits really not that much trouble.. :P
19:33.10nvzCtrlC: http://iamcowhearme.mooo.com/themes.tar.bz2  and lots of cursors in http://iamcowhearme.mooo.com/icons.tar.bz2
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19:33.15dvsxaeB5, did you use the advanced install?
19:33.21nvzI have many different colored dark themes
19:33.23CtrlCThank you so much nvz
19:33.47xaeB5dvs: is that the "Install" option under the graphical install one, or is there a seperate one that's advanced?
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19:34.15nvzI'm working on creating a more easily accessible archive of theme content.. but I got some minor code bugs :P
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19:29.17xaeB5can you set a manual IP instead of dhcp in the debian installer?
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19:29.42CtrlCok got it dark actually.
19:34.47dvsxaeB5, there's an advanced install for both text and graphics mode
19:29.47CtrlCThanks.
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19:29.55dvsxaeB5, yet
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19:29.57CtrlCstill a little slow. and I just rebooted
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19:35.21xaeB5dvs: thanks
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19:32.26xaeB5dvs: i never got an option to set that manually
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19:33.10nvzCtrlC: http://iamcowhearme.mooo.com/themes.tar.bz2  and lots of cursors in http://iamcowhearme.mooo.com/icons.tar.bz2
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19:33.15dvsxaeB5, did you use the advanced install?
19:33.21nvzI have many different colored dark themes
19:33.23CtrlCThank you so much nvz
19:33.47xaeB5dvs: is that the "Install" option under the graphical install one, or is there a seperate one that's advanced?
19:34.15nvzI'm working on creating a more easily accessible archive of theme content.. but I got some minor code bugs :P
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19:34.47dvsxaeB5, there's an advanced install for both text and graphics mode
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19:35.21xaeB5dvs: thanks
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19:47.15xaeB5when the debian installer is asking for a nameserver during network setup, does that mean DNS server? because it defaults to 192.168.X.1 which is the gateway
19:47.36greycatin some cases that is correct; the router may also be a DNS nameserver
19:47.50dvsxaeB5, yes it wants the DNS server.
19:47.51greycatif it works, leave it alone :)
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19:49.07xaeB5thanks
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19:47.15xaeB5when the debian installer is asking for a nameserver during network setup, does that mean DNS server? because it defaults to 192.168.X.1 which is the gateway
19:53.39jhutchins_wknvz: /boot/config* Are the config files used to build the kernel images.  These are provided so you can see the options, and make minor tweaks without building a config file from scratch if you're recompiling.
19:54.27nvzjhutchins_wk: yes, I've build kernels more than a decade ago, I'm familiar with what they are.. I'm also familiar with the /proc/config.gz  I just wasnt sure what else might use them
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19:47.36greycatin some cases that is correct; the router may also be a DNS nameserver
19:47.50dvsxaeB5, yes it wants the DNS server.
19:54.57somiajadvantage of having the config file in the debian package is you do
19:47.51greycatif it works, leave it alone :)
19:55.00nvzjhutchins_wk: I was just generally advising against deleting files owned by packages for no reason
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19:55.10somiajdon't have to be running the kernel to check its config, or even on a debian system (just extrat it from the package)
19:55.37jhutchins_wknvz: Pretty much any program you compile will have a config file.
19:56.02greycatjhutchins_wk: um... that's...
19:56.06jhutchins_wknvz: I think for non-kernel packages they're in the source file, or they're built by a "configure" command during the process.
19:49.07xaeB5thanks
19:56.31jhutchins_wkgreycat: Yeah, an overgeneralization.
19:56.36greycatMost programs read a "config file" from disk to tell them what to do.  The kernel package "config-*" files tell you what options were chosen when building the kernel.  The kernel does not read it.
19:56.44nvzI'm no stranger to these things..I been around awhile..
19:56.46somiajyea, most use a ./configure script which generates it, maybe with some combation of automake tools
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19:57.31greycatnow you're talking about config.log which is an entirely different thing
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19:53.39jhutchins_wknvz: /boot/config* Are the config files used to build the kernel images.  These are provided so you can see the options, and make minor tweaks without building a config file from scratch if you're recompiling.
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19:54.27nvzjhutchins_wk: yes, I've build kernels more than a decade ago, I'm familiar with what they are.. I'm also familiar with the /proc/config.gz  I just wasnt sure what else might use them
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19:54.57somiajadvantage of having the config file in the debian package is you do
19:58.37nvzmy damn space key on this t440 is actingup.. its reallystartingto piss meoff..heh..mechanicallyits fineand withthe keyboard lightonfullbright i see nothing under it..
19:55.00nvzjhutchins_wk: I was just generally advising against deleting files owned by packages for no reason
19:55.10somiajdon't have to be running the kernel to check its config, or even on a debian system (just extrat it from the package)
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19:55.37jhutchins_wknvz: Pretty much any program you compile will have a config file.
19:58.57nvzyetobciouslywhen I dont keep backspacingitsnot spacingquite frequently
19:59.23nvzandI'm hitting it nearly dead center where the damn contact switch is
19:56.02greycatjhutchins_wk: um... that's...
19:56.06jhutchins_wknvz: I think for non-kernel packages they're in the source file, or they're built by a "configure" command during the process.
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19:56.31jhutchins_wkgreycat: Yeah, an overgeneralization.
19:56.36greycatMost programs read a "config file" from disk to tell them what to do.  The kernel package "config-*" files tell you what options were chosen when building the kernel.  The kernel does not read it.
19:56.44nvzI'm no stranger to these things..I been around awhile..
19:56.46somiajyea, most use a ./configure script which generates it, maybe with some combation of automake tools
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19:57.31greycatnow you're talking about config.log which is an entirely different thing
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20:02.58humpledwut
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19:58.37nvzmy damn space key on this t440 is actingup.. its reallystartingto piss meoff..heh..mechanicallyits fineand withthe keyboard lightonfullbright i see nothing under it..
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20:04.38nvzright?!
20:05.04nvzits probably riveted together so probably not even worth taking apart
19:58.57nvzyetobciouslywhen I dont keep backspacingitsnot spacingquite frequently
19:59.23nvzandI'm hitting it nearly dead center where the damn contact switch is
20:05.30dvs???
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20:05.34nvzI'd hate to have to couch fish for money to buy a new keyabord for this laptop just cause the damn spacebar is acting up :P
20:02.58humpledwut
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20:09.45somiajI had to scrap a whole laptotp because the port you plug the power into got loose and it wouldn't power anymore
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20:10.03somiajI still have it with the dream I might sodder it together to make work, but haven't (work just bought me a new laptop)
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20:11.14nvzyeah Ibroke one of my only two usb ports recently.. apparently the usb3 cable from my wd passport got smashed in ma bag and I plugged it in flatenning out the usb2 ground port on my right hand side port before I realized the cable was bent up.. I'd put a flat screwdriver into the cable and beat it straight again, but idk about fixing the port.. it still works for usb3, since it has its own ground.. but
20:04.38nvzright?!
20:05.04nvzits probably riveted together so probably not even worth taking apart
20:11.20nvzdoesn'twork for usb2 anymore
20:11.29jhutchins_wknvz: Keyboards wear out.
20:11.39CtrlCnvz, mate actually looks much faster
20:11.50nvzjhutchins_wk: yeah I haven't had this very long, but it was used when I got it
20:05.30dvs???
20:12.01CtrlCshutting down some of my services might even make it more fast I guess.
20:05.34nvzI'd hate to have to couch fish for money to buy a new keyabord for this laptop just cause the damn spacebar is acting up :P
20:12.08humpled:v
20:12.09nvzCtrlC: it should be faster than gnome
20:12.24nvzand more easily configured too
20:12.47jhutchins_wknvz: Definitely try the canned air under the key before trying to pry it off.  The thinkpads I've had did have removable keys, but space bars (and other wide keys) are tricky.
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20:13.13humpledcrumbs
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20:14.52nvzI'd already pulled the spacebar off and removed all the stuff from under it
20:09.45somiajI had to scrap a whole laptotp because the port you plug the power into got loose and it wouldn't power anymore
20:15.17nvzand pressing the switch seemedto workeverytimeand I feel nothing mechanically wrong with it when I press thespace bar but clearly its not working right
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20:10.03somiajI still have it with the dream I might sodder it together to make work, but haven't (work just bought me a new laptop)
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20:11.14nvzyeah Ibroke one of my only two usb ports recently.. apparently the usb3 cable from my wd passport got smashed in ma bag and I plugged it in flatenning out the usb2 ground port on my right hand side port before I realized the cable was bent up.. I'd put a flat screwdriver into the cable and beat it straight again, but idk about fixing the port.. it still works for usb3, since it has its own ground.. but
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20:11.20nvzdoesn'twork for usb2 anymore
20:11.29jhutchins_wknvz: Keyboards wear out.
20:11.39CtrlCnvz, mate actually looks much faster
20:11.50nvzjhutchins_wk: yeah I haven't had this very long, but it was used when I got it
20:12.01CtrlCshutting down some of my services might even make it more fast I guess.
20:12.08humpled:v
20:12.09nvzCtrlC: it should be faster than gnome
20:12.24nvzand more easily configured too
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20:12.47jhutchins_wknvz: Definitely try the canned air under the key before trying to pry it off.  The thinkpads I've had did have removable keys, but space bars (and other wide keys) are tricky.
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20:13.13humpledcrumbs
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20:22.52jhutchins_wknvz: Look for mechanical wear.
20:23.09jhutchins_wknvz: possibly a shim between the button and the key.
20:14.52nvzI'd already pulled the spacebar off and removed all the stuff from under it
20:15.17nvzand pressing the switch seemedto workeverytimeand I feel nothing mechanically wrong with it when I press thespace bar but clearly its not working right
20:24.07nvzlooks like after removing it entirely one of theclips holding the lifter bar wasoff but even after reseating that its still being a PIMA :P
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20:25.28nvzlooks to see howmuch a keyboard costs
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20:25.58nvzo.O damn.. they're expensive
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20:27.00nvzUS$87 for a new one.. used/refurb they're like $20
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20:28.30nvzisn't $20+ annoyed yet :P
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20:22.52jhutchins_wknvz: Look for mechanical wear.
20:23.09jhutchins_wknvz: possibly a shim between the button and the key.
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20:24.07nvzlooks like after removing it entirely one of theclips holding the lifter bar wasoff but even after reseating that its still being a PIMA :P
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20:25.28nvzlooks to see howmuch a keyboard costs
20:25.58nvzo.O damn.. they're expensive
20:27.00nvzUS$87 for a new one.. used/refurb they're like $20
20:36.44EdePopede"a" keyboard? some specific model/manufacturer?
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20:28.30nvzisn't $20+ annoyed yet :P
20:36.56nvzlenovo t440
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20:37.26EdePopedeah, was wondering. because my wireless logitec set was clearly cheaper
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20:38.21nvzI'd think being like 5 years old it'd be cheaper by now.. but they're still selling new keyboards for $87 which is nuts.. used they are like $20-30on average
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20:39.12EdePopedei've just seen the T440 vor around €230
20:39.30EdePopedeso $87 for only the keyboard... no.
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20:40.03nvzEdePopede: https://www.laptopkeyboard.com/keyboards/lenovo/thinkpad-lenovo/t440/
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20:41.44EdePopedeoriginal price 148.88? what's so special about them? oh wait, in a notebook you can't just use the one you want
20:42.20nvzEdePopede: has a bunch of lights in it and special hardware
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20:42.55EdePopedethe price is still ridiculous
20:43.41nvzEdePopede: like the F1-12 are MM keys by default, the fn key is required to use the F1-F12, or you press esc+fn to do a fnlock, fn+space to adjust backlight brightness (3 settings, dim, bright, off) and has lights for themic mute and speaker mute too..
20:36.44EdePopede"a" keyboard? some specific model/manufacturer?
20:44.47EdePopedenice modeset options. handled by the keyboard firmware i guess?
20:36.56nvzlenovo t440
20:44.55nvzEdePopede: yeah, but thats what you get when you use quality stuff.. my 1990 Volvo 760GLE was 15 years old and I'd looked to get the plastic half-round molding around the front bumper, just the short pieces that wrapped around the side of the car were $20 each.. heh..
20:45.23nvzEdePopede: yeah there is a chip under the spacebar I'd noticed.. so it apparently has a good bit of electronics and firmware on it
20:37.26EdePopedeah, was wondering. because my wireless logitec set was clearly cheaper
20:45.37nvzplus it has the trackpoint of course
20:38.21nvzI'd think being like 5 years old it'd be cheaper by now.. but they're still selling new keyboards for $87 which is nuts.. used they are like $20-30on average
20:45.50nvzwhich also has its own firmware
20:39.12EdePopedei've just seen the T440 vor around €230
20:46.36CarlFKhow do I tell what desktop manager is running?  or how do I track down what is causing the screen to blank after 60 or some seconds ?
20:39.30EdePopedeso $87 for only the keyboard... no.
20:47.05nvzCarlFK: you can often tell the DE by checking the XDG_* environment vars
20:40.03nvzEdePopede: https://www.laptopkeyboard.com/keyboards/lenovo/thinkpad-lenovo/t440/
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20:41.44EdePopedeoriginal price 148.88? what's so special about them? oh wait, in a notebook you can't just use the one you want
20:48.14nvzCarlFK: screen blanking is done at multiple levels, the acpi (bios/uefi), the x server (xset -blank and xset -dpms) and by power management software
20:48.30nvzerm -blank 0 I think it is
20:48.42nvzor -blank off I don't recall haven't done it in ages
20:42.20nvzEdePopede: has a bunch of lights in it and special hardware
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20:42.55EdePopedethe price is still ridiculous
20:49.23nvzcould also be done by the display driver though I've not known any that do it offhand
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20:43.41nvzEdePopede: like the F1-12 are MM keys by default, the fn key is required to use the F1-F12, or you press esc+fn to do a fnlock, fn+space to adjust backlight brightness (3 settings, dim, bright, off) and has lights for themic mute and speaker mute too..
20:49.56tagomagoIs this related to Firefox? It crashes my DE too often ------> Chrome_~dThread[21450]: segfault at 0 ip 00007f4b8eb49d9f sp 00007f4b8cfaead0 error 6 in libxul.so[7f4b8eb36000+3a3d000]
20:50.00nvzCarlFK: echo "$XDG_SESSION_DESKTOP"
20:50.06EdePopedenvz: the thing that pisses me off is that they usually add 15% value and 50% price.
20:44.47EdePopedenice modeset options. handled by the keyboard firmware i guess?
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20:44.55nvzEdePopede: yeah, but thats what you get when you use quality stuff.. my 1990 Volvo 760GLE was 15 years old and I'd looked to get the plastic half-round molding around the front bumper, just the short pieces that wrapped around the side of the car were $20 each.. heh..
20:50.18greycatwooledg:~$ locate libxul
20:45.23nvzEdePopede: yeah there is a chip under the spacebar I'd noticed.. so it apparently has a good bit of electronics and firmware on it
20:50.18greycat/usr/lib/firefox-esr/libxul.so
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20:45.37nvzplus it has the trackpoint of course
20:51.35nvzgreycat: I'm curious why you chose locate for that.. I've never in all these years used locate, I'd have done a dpkg -S or used Judd or such.
20:52.07nvz,file libxul.so
20:45.50nvzwhich also has its own firmware
20:46.36CarlFKhow do I tell what desktop manager is running?  or how do I track down what is causing the screen to blank after 60 or some seconds ?
20:52.13juddSearch for libxul.so in buster/amd64: firefox-esr: usr/lib/firefox-esr/libxul.so; thunderbird: usr/lib/thunderbird/libxul.so
20:52.23tagomagoSo Firefox ESR is breaking my desktop, weirdly enough
20:52.26CarlFKXDG_SESSION_DESKTOP=lightdm-xsession
20:47.05nvzCarlFK: you can often tell the DE by checking the XDG_* environment vars
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20:52.54nvzCarlFK: thats rather odd.. mine says "mate" you must be using the default xsession or something
20:48.14nvzCarlFK: screen blanking is done at multiple levels, the acpi (bios/uefi), the x server (xset -blank and xset -dpms) and by power management software
20:48.30nvzerm -blank 0 I think it is
20:48.42nvzor -blank off I don't recall haven't done it in ages
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20:49.23nvzcould also be done by the display driver though I've not known any that do it offhand
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20:55.22EdePopedesame here, but also XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=XFCE
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20:49.56tagomagoIs this related to Firefox? It crashes my DE too often ------> Chrome_~dThread[21450]: segfault at 0 ip 00007f4b8eb49d9f sp 00007f4b8cfaead0 error 6 in libxul.so[7f4b8eb36000+3a3d000]
20:50.00nvzCarlFK: echo "$XDG_SESSION_DESKTOP"
20:50.06EdePopedenvz: the thing that pisses me off is that they usually add 15% value and 50% price.
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20:50.18greycatwooledg:~$ locate libxul
20:50.18greycat/usr/lib/firefox-esr/libxul.so
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20:51.35nvzgreycat: I'm curious why you chose locate for that.. I've never in all these years used locate, I'd have done a dpkg -S or used Judd or such.
20:52.07nvz,file libxul.so
20:52.13juddSearch for libxul.so in buster/amd64: firefox-esr: usr/lib/firefox-esr/libxul.so; thunderbird: usr/lib/thunderbird/libxul.so
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20:57.04tagomagoOh, Firefox OR Thunderbird...
20:52.23tagomagoSo Firefox ESR is breaking my desktop, weirdly enough
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20:52.26CarlFKXDG_SESSION_DESKTOP=lightdm-xsession
20:52.54nvzCarlFK: thats rather odd.. mine says "mate" you must be using the default xsession or something
20:57.42tagomagoThanks
20:57.45greycat(por qué no los dos)
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20:55.22EdePopedesame here, but also XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=XFCE
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21:00.14CarlFKnvz:  (im doing raspbin) - xset sets (yes?) how do I read current values so I can track down what is currently blanking it?
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21:00.25greycat*plonk*
21:00.31greycat!raspbian
21:00.32dpkgRaspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>.  Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian.  Please use #raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on irc.freenode.net for support.   https://www.raspbian.org/
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20:57.04tagomagoOh, Firefox OR Thunderbird...
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21:04.03tagomagoThanks... Here it's solved just trashing the Firefox user profile: https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/firefox-segfaults-in-libxul-so-4175641749/
20:57.42tagomagoThanks
21:04.12tagomagoI guess that's the case
20:57.45greycat(por qué no los dos)
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21:04.25tagomagoHate to do that, though...
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21:00.14CarlFKnvz:  (im doing raspbin) - xset sets (yes?) how do I read current values so I can track down what is currently blanking it?
21:00.21*** join/#debian ageis (~kevin@cointel.pro)
21:00.25greycat*plonk*
21:00.31greycat!raspbian
21:00.32dpkgRaspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>.  Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian.  Please use #raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on irc.freenode.net for support.   https://www.raspbian.org/
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21:04.03tagomagoThanks... Here it's solved just trashing the Firefox user profile: https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/firefox-segfaults-in-libxul-so-4175641749/
21:04.12tagomagoI guess that's the case
21:04.25tagomagoHate to do that, though...
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21:16.49RoastedcoffeeHi
21:17.44RoastedcoffeeI've just installed Debian10 and I didn't want updates during installation, now I want to update but got DVD repository only
21:17.59greycat!buster sources.list
21:17.59dpkgA suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main", and optionally "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list".
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21:16.49RoastedcoffeeHi
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21:17.44RoastedcoffeeI've just installed Debian10 and I didn't want updates during installation, now I want to update but got DVD repository only
21:17.59greycat!buster sources.list
21:17.59dpkgA suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main" "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main", and optionally "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main". See <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <buster/updates> <buster-updates> and "man sources.list".
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21:51.01magic_ninjaman, pulse audio keeps selecting the wrong audio device. anyone know how to set it as default?
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21:51.20magic_ninjait sets my mobo's built-in audio, but it doesn't set the correct configuration
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21:52.17iuiututaboa noite para todos é preferivel ingles ou portugues pra falar?
21:52.42dvs!pt
21:52.42dpkgPor favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
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21:57.19iuiututai understood
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21:58.35iuiututajust to open a point i ever thinked, isnt sudo a serious security issue when granted to usual user?
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21:51.01magic_ninjaman, pulse audio keeps selecting the wrong audio device. anyone know how to set it as default?
21:59.51somiajiuiututa: it can increase the attack surface
21:51.20magic_ninjait sets my mobo's built-in audio, but it doesn't set the correct configuration
22:00.18somiajbut if used properly it is just fine, and by default the biggest issue (if used by both root and your normal user) is that there are now two accounts one can try to break instead of one
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21:52.17iuiututaboa noite para todos é preferivel ingles ou portugues pra falar?
21:52.42dvs!pt
21:52.42dpkgPor favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
22:03.34*** join/#debian brokencycle (~brokencyc@2a02:c7d:ca1a:5400:f99d:59ab:17f1:65a3)
22:03.54xaeB5can anyone help me ssh into a debian VM. i can ping the host machine's ip but how do i access the guest OS through ssh from another computer?
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22:04.13BCMMxaeB5: what sort of VM is this?
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22:04.22iuiututasudo let me do admin stuff with regular user without long passwords typing but what the man is the utility of hard passwors whatsoever
22:04.34*** join/#debian danwellby (~danwellby@34.177.9.51.dyn.plus.net)
22:04.45BCMMxaeB5: you may have to go through some extra steps to allow incoming connections to reach the guest machine
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22:05.10xaeB5BCMM: virtualbox vm
21:57.19iuiututai understood
22:05.42xaeB5i used networkmanager to give the vm it's own static ip address. not sure if i was supposed to or not
21:58.35iuiututajust to open a point i ever thinked, isnt sudo a serious security issue when granted to usual user?
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22:05.54BCMMxaeB5: can you ping the VM's ip address?
21:59.51somiajiuiututa: it can increase the attack surface
22:06.10BCMMxaeB5: also, do you know which of these modes you are using? https://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch06.html#networkingmodes
22:00.18somiajbut if used properly it is just fine, and by default the biggest issue (if used by both root and your normal user) is that there are now two accounts one can try to break instead of one
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22:07.41xaeB5i can't, no. not the static ip i assigned it. but inside the VM, the internet works fine
22:07.47xaeB5it appears to be NAT
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22:07.48iuiututanow i m engaged in python scripts... the good stuff is i can read what i execute
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22:03.54xaeB5can anyone help me ssh into a debian VM. i can ping the host machine's ip but how do i access the guest OS through ssh from another computer?
22:08.13xaeB5BCMM: i found this which i'm following. it may have an answer https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5906441/how-to-ssh-to-a-virtualbox-guest-externally-through-a-host
22:04.13BCMMxaeB5: what sort of VM is this?
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22:08.45iuiututabut the pip scares me
22:04.22iuiututasudo let me do admin stuff with regular user without long passwords typing but what the man is the utility of hard passwors whatsoever
22:08.45BCMMxaeB5: ok, so did you configure port forwarding?
22:04.34*** join/#debian danwellby (~danwellby@34.177.9.51.dyn.plus.net)
22:09.04BCMMxaeB5: you linked to the question - i don't know which answer you're following.
22:04.45BCMMxaeB5: you may have to go through some extra steps to allow incoming connections to reach the guest machine
22:09.16BCMMif it's "all of them at once", you're going to run in to some issues.
22:09.24iuiututawthell from what source they get the dependencies
22:05.10xaeB5BCMM: virtualbox vm
22:09.43josspykerChange the adapter type in VirtualBox to bridged xaeB5
22:09.43jhutchinsI think I ended up adding two interfaces, one for host-only and one for nat.
22:05.42xaeB5i used networkmanager to give the vm it's own static ip address. not sure if i was supposed to or not
22:09.52xaeB5BCMM: i'm following the port forwarding one. i will let you know if it works in a moment
22:10.03xaeB5josspyker: oh
22:05.54BCMMxaeB5: can you ping the VM's ip address?
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22:06.10BCMMxaeB5: also, do you know which of these modes you are using? https://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch06.html#networkingmodes
22:11.41iuiututai want all installed and best practices of security says always keep only the essential
22:12.17iuiututathe essential is boring
22:14.39iuiututathe serotonin is change the scripts to fit best my needs
22:14.45xaeB5BCMM josspyker: thanks you guys, worked when i changed NAT to bridged
22:07.41xaeB5i can't, no. not the static ip i assigned it. but inside the VM, the internet works fine
22:07.47xaeB5it appears to be NAT
22:07.48iuiututanow i m engaged in python scripts... the good stuff is i can read what i execute
22:07.57*** join/#debian krabador (~krabador@unaffiliated/krabador)
22:08.13xaeB5BCMM: i found this which i'm following. it may have an answer https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5906441/how-to-ssh-to-a-virtualbox-guest-externally-through-a-host
22:08.45iuiututabut the pip scares me
22:15.57josspykerxaeB5: yw, now set up keys for ssh login and if it works disable pw login.
22:08.45BCMMxaeB5: ok, so did you configure port forwarding?
22:09.04BCMMxaeB5: you linked to the question - i don't know which answer you're following.
22:09.16BCMMif it's "all of them at once", you're going to run in to some issues.
22:09.24iuiututawthell from what source they get the dependencies
22:17.05xaeB5josspyker: ok i will
22:09.43josspykerChange the adapter type in VirtualBox to bridged xaeB5
22:17.11xaeB5this one wont be open to internet
22:09.43jhutchinsI think I ended up adding two interfaces, one for host-only and one for nat.
22:09.52xaeB5BCMM: i'm following the port forwarding one. i will let you know if it works in a moment
22:18.09*** join/#debian toxync12- (~toxync12@223.72.89.36)
22:18.09iuiututai saw in debian installation the option ssh server and laugh
22:10.03xaeB5josspyker: oh
22:10.21*** join/#debian ircopNet (~n@78.190.210.197)
22:11.41iuiututai want all installed and best practices of security says always keep only the essential
22:12.17iuiututathe essential is boring
22:14.39iuiututathe serotonin is change the scripts to fit best my needs
22:14.45xaeB5BCMM josspyker: thanks you guys, worked when i changed NAT to bridged
22:20.51iuiututawhat do you think i must focus? shell scripts or python scripts?
22:21.40xaeB5iuiututa: why, whats wrong with checking that option in the installer? thats what i usually do
22:21.45*** join/#debian jneundorf (~jneundorf@ptcdon3309w-lp130-04-65-95-81-91.dsl.bell.ca)
22:21.56*** join/#debian we6jbo (~we6jbo@2606:6000:c086:6a00:11f3:6988:78ae:1f1d)
22:22.31iuiututaxaeB5 must say is a good option to servers
22:15.57josspykerxaeB5: yw, now set up keys for ssh login and if it works disable pw login.
22:22.41*** join/#debian eb0t (~eblip@unaffiliated/eblip)
22:22.44iuiututanot desktop
22:17.05xaeB5josspyker: ok i will
22:17.11xaeB5this one wont be open to internet
22:23.31*** join/#debian bliv (~bliv@unaffiliated/blivande)
22:18.09*** join/#debian toxync12- (~toxync12@223.72.89.36)
22:23.59iuiututaand servers admins can do it by hand not in screen installer
22:18.09iuiututai saw in debian installation the option ssh server and laugh
22:24.01jneundorfhi, this is my first foray into irc.  got the idea because i ran out of other options.  been a user since debian4.  upgrading to buster has me scratching my head - samba client no longer sees user/group from samba server.  instead sees root user as owner of samba shares.  is this a known issue?
22:25.01*** join/#debian georgie_ (~textual@ip4.ip-139-99-178.net)
22:25.21magic_ninjajneundorf, welcome to irc. There is where its at.
22:25.53jneundorfmagic_ninja thank you for the welcome message.
22:25.54*** join/#debian dArK_IcE (~lawl@a79-169-92-77.cpe.netcabo.pt)
22:20.51iuiututawhat do you think i must focus? shell scripts or python scripts?
22:26.25magic_ninjajneundorf, I don't an answer though, generally if you idle someone might. That is a strange issue. Is it possible to just change the permissions recursively to fix the directory?
22:26.57iuiututaa script do
22:21.40xaeB5iuiututa: why, whats wrong with checking that option in the installer? thats what i usually do
22:21.45*** join/#debian jneundorf (~jneundorf@ptcdon3309w-lp130-04-65-95-81-91.dsl.bell.ca)
22:27.38jneundorfit's interesting because the permissions are unchanged on the server.  the client now sees different permissions in buster - they were reading correctly in stretch.
22:21.56*** join/#debian we6jbo (~we6jbo@2606:6000:c086:6a00:11f3:6988:78ae:1f1d)
22:28.09*** join/#debian scoobertron (~tom@82.129.122.7)
22:22.31iuiututaxaeB5 must say is a good option to servers
22:29.01*** mode/#debian [+l 1567] by debhelper
22:29.05*** join/#debian dastier_ (~dastier@mm-16-153-57-86.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by)
22:29.19iuiututapython is so more see i got it then shell scripts
22:22.41*** join/#debian eb0t (~eblip@unaffiliated/eblip)
22:22.44iuiututanot desktop
22:23.31*** join/#debian bliv (~bliv@unaffiliated/blivande)
22:23.59iuiututaand servers admins can do it by hand not in screen installer
22:24.01jneundorfhi, this is my first foray into irc.  got the idea because i ran out of other options.  been a user since debian4.  upgrading to buster has me scratching my head - samba client no longer sees user/group from samba server.  instead sees root user as owner of samba shares.  is this a known issue?
22:30.51iuiututabut if i give sudo to the noob user to run python... im in trouble
22:31.25iuiututasudo is for ubuntu desktop users
22:31.32dvswhy whould you need to give sudo to a user to run Python?
22:25.01*** join/#debian georgie_ (~textual@ip4.ip-139-99-178.net)
22:25.21magic_ninjajneundorf, welcome to irc. There is where its at.
22:32.33iuiututadvs just to picture a real world situation can be the same man
22:33.12iuiututai prefer run in the box strange things
22:33.20*** join/#debian enseneo (~madneap@c-73-4-34-87.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
22:33.59*** join/#debian bashquest (~bash0r@94.242.220.173)
22:25.53jneundorfmagic_ninja thank you for the welcome message.
22:33.59*** join/#debian bashquest (~bash0r@unaffiliated/bashquest)
22:25.54*** join/#debian dArK_IcE (~lawl@a79-169-92-77.cpe.netcabo.pt)
22:34.12jneundorfthe client is a vbox vm and the server is the vbox host.  vbox client works fine in debian stretch but sambar share is read-only once vbox client is upgraded to buster.  vbox is pretty handy - i can easily revert to stretch vbox client
22:26.25magic_ninjajneundorf, I don't an answer though, generally if you idle someone might. That is a strange issue. Is it possible to just change the permissions recursively to fix the directory?
22:26.57iuiututaa script do
22:27.38jneundorfit's interesting because the permissions are unchanged on the server.  the client now sees different permissions in buster - they were reading correctly in stretch.
22:28.09*** join/#debian scoobertron (~tom@82.129.122.7)
22:29.01*** mode/#debian [+l 1567] by debhelper
22:37.01iuiututadvs i elsewhere got a cript to change passwords in python it only works with sudo
22:29.05*** join/#debian dastier_ (~dastier@mm-16-153-57-86.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by)
22:29.19iuiututapython is so more see i got it then shell scripts
22:37.47iuiututaif the SAFE user ir the root... no problem
22:38.50iuiututamean the same person
22:39.27iuiututasudo is nonsense
22:39.57iuiututawho is the genius that created sudo
22:40.39*** join/#debian robs_ (~robs@124.2.83.79.rev.sfr.net)
22:30.51iuiututabut if i give sudo to the noob user to run python... im in trouble
22:31.25iuiututasudo is for ubuntu desktop users
22:31.32dvswhy whould you need to give sudo to a user to run Python?
22:41.10iuiututamust be in ubuntu amazon supported staff
22:32.33iuiututadvs just to picture a real world situation can be the same man
22:33.12iuiututai prefer run in the box strange things
22:33.20*** join/#debian enseneo (~madneap@c-73-4-34-87.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
22:41.50jneundorfThe samba issue was a bit of a surprise in buster - I wonder if it's a bug that should be reported
22:33.59*** join/#debian bashquest (~bash0r@94.242.220.173)
22:43.17iuiututaI report debian is in fault for low spec hardware
22:33.59*** join/#debian bashquest (~bash0r@unaffiliated/bashquest)
22:34.12jneundorfthe client is a vbox vm and the server is the vbox host.  vbox client works fine in debian stretch but sambar share is read-only once vbox client is upgraded to buster.  vbox is pretty handy - i can easily revert to stretch vbox client
22:43.28*** join/#debian earend1 (uid170954@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kjszfaeyqsyiqrix)
22:44.34iuiututamean, if i run a mild vm in low profile hardware the issue is not to be slow is to be in bugs
22:45.20dvsiuiututa, you can set up sudo to only execute certain commands as root for a user.
22:46.08iuiututadvs nice to know
22:37.01iuiututadvs i elsewhere got a cript to change passwords in python it only works with sudo
22:50.44iuiututai gave up vms in slow machines. the only one that did something infant system usable was tinycore linux
22:37.47iuiututaif the SAFE user ir the root... no problem
22:52.35iuiututaand i must say tinycore is not for real users
22:52.54*** join/#debian Aussie_matt (~quassel@27-33-187-117.static.tpgi.com.au)
22:38.50iuiututamean the same person
22:39.27iuiututasudo is nonsense
22:39.57iuiututawho is the genius that created sudo
22:40.39*** join/#debian robs_ (~robs@124.2.83.79.rev.sfr.net)
22:55.23at0miuiututa: sudo is great when systems and different parts of it are not managed by a single user. different users can be given different access levels to run specific programs. without the need to give everyone the root password.
22:56.19dvsreally?????
22:41.10iuiututamust be in ubuntu amazon supported staff
22:56.29at0mthat's what it's for eh
22:56.40iuiututaat0m ok perhaps i dont know use sudo well
22:41.50jneundorfThe samba issue was a bit of a surprise in buster - I wonder if it's a bug that should be reported
22:57.03at0miuiututa: and like many people, probably not in a multi-user config
22:58.03*** join/#debian niccc (~mtn@197.2.165.151)
22:43.17iuiututaI report debian is in fault for low spec hardware
22:58.46at0mit's not just 'to become root'
22:58.49at0m,i sudo
22:58.50juddPackage sudo (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: Provide limited super user privileges to specific users. Version: 1.8.27-1; Size: 1215.6k; Installed: 3795k; Homepage: http://www.sudo.ws/
22:43.28*** join/#debian earend1 (uid170954@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kjszfaeyqsyiqrix)
22:59.12at0mnot just super user. more, any other user
22:59.20somiajIt also keeps logs of what individual admins are doing vs everything done by root, even if you give them full access.
22:44.34iuiututamean, if i run a mild vm in low profile hardware the issue is not to be slow is to be in bugs
22:45.20dvsiuiututa, you can set up sudo to only execute certain commands as root for a user.
22:46.08iuiututadvs nice to know
22:50.44iuiututai gave up vms in slow machines. the only one that did something infant system usable was tinycore linux
23:02.13iuiututawhat you think of pip in python?
23:02.13*** join/#debian graytron (~tero@81-197-51-231.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
22:52.35iuiututaand i must say tinycore is not for real users
22:52.54*** join/#debian Aussie_matt (~quassel@27-33-187-117.static.tpgi.com.au)
23:02.14*** join/#debian kopper (~mrbabar@unaffiliated/kopper)
23:02.29iuiututait download off debian repo
23:02.31*** join/#debian mureena (~mureena@durendal.hexmodeus.com)
22:55.23at0miuiututa: sudo is great when systems and different parts of it are not managed by a single user. different users can be given different access levels to run specific programs. without the need to give everyone the root password.
23:02.38*** join/#debian dArK_IcE (~lawl@a79-169-92-77.cpe.netcabo.pt)
22:56.19dvsreally?????
22:56.29at0mthat's what it's for eh
23:03.27at0miuiututa: pip sources 3rd party repo's, not debians. for debian repo's, apt install
22:56.40iuiututaat0m ok perhaps i dont know use sudo well
23:03.52*** join/#debian squirrel (~mj@unaffiliated/squirrel)
22:57.03at0miuiututa: and like many people, probably not in a multi-user config
23:03.55*** join/#debian peterS (~peter@ip68-103-156-72.ks.ok.cox.net)
22:58.03*** join/#debian niccc (~mtn@197.2.165.151)
22:58.46at0mit's not just 'to become root'
22:58.49at0m,i sudo
23:04.22iuiututaat0m this concerns me
22:58.50juddPackage sudo (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: Provide limited super user privileges to specific users. Version: 1.8.27-1; Size: 1215.6k; Installed: 3795k; Homepage: http://www.sudo.ws/
23:04.26*** join/#debian crn (~crn@108.226.35.137)
22:59.12at0mnot just super user. more, any other user
23:04.29at0mat least when running all from debian repo's you avoid depends hell, cos that's been sorted by debian, and you get reviews and (security) updates
22:59.20somiajIt also keeps logs of what individual admins are doing vs everything done by root, even if you give them full access.
23:04.50at0mi dare you to update anything you pip installed
23:04.54somiajsince python files are mostly scripts, thrid party isn't that bad, but one should really use a python virtual enviorment instead.
23:04.59at0mlight a candle :W
23:05.01at0m:>
23:05.11josspykerlol
23:02.13iuiututawhat you think of pip in python?
23:05.46somiajPython seems to have way to many tools now to install stuff outside of ones repo. What you need really depends on use case, but debian's python packages cover most of what most people will need.
23:02.13*** join/#debian graytron (~tero@81-197-51-231.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
23:06.16*** join/#debian shibboleth (~shibbolet@gateway/tor-sasl/shibboleth)
23:02.14*** join/#debian kopper (~mrbabar@unaffiliated/kopper)
23:06.25iuiututathe dependencies
23:02.29iuiututait download off debian repo
23:06.41jordanmpipenv is really nice for development
23:02.31*** join/#debian mureena (~mureena@durendal.hexmodeus.com)
23:06.54iuiututawithout pip i cant run a script
23:06.57at0mthough many 'user guides' and howto's suggest to pip install, first check debian repo's, probably there's a package that can be apt installed
23:08.37iuiututai expect to meee to be trusty not buster
23:02.38*** join/#debian dArK_IcE (~lawl@a79-169-92-77.cpe.netcabo.pt)
23:09.25shibbolethyou can also do pip install --user
23:09.41shibboleththis will pull all the deps into the users .local folder
23:03.27at0miuiututa: pip sources 3rd party repo's, not debians. for debian repo's, apt install
23:09.46shibbolethportable, ofc
23:03.52*** join/#debian squirrel (~mj@unaffiliated/squirrel)
23:03.55*** join/#debian peterS (~peter@ip68-103-156-72.ks.ok.cox.net)
23:10.39somiajiuiututa: one should often try to install stuff via debian packages and not pip. And if using pip, do this in a virtual enviroment
23:04.22iuiututaat0m this concerns me
23:04.26*** join/#debian crn (~crn@108.226.35.137)
23:04.29at0mat least when running all from debian repo's you avoid depends hell, cos that's been sorted by debian, and you get reviews and (security) updates
23:04.50at0mi dare you to update anything you pip installed
23:11.31shibbolethif your web app requires these libs, don't bother with virtualenv
23:11.45iuiututashibboleth good to know pip can install only in user pip space i will see this
23:04.54somiajsince python files are mostly scripts, thrid party isn't that bad, but one should really use a python virtual enviorment instead.
23:04.59at0mlight a candle :W
23:05.01at0m:>
23:12.06shibbolethcopy whatever users .local into /var/www and apache will be able to use the libs
23:05.11josspykerlol
23:12.18*** join/#debian fred`` (fred@earthli.ng)
23:05.46somiajPython seems to have way to many tools now to install stuff outside of ones repo. What you need really depends on use case, but debian's python packages cover most of what most people will need.
23:13.52iuiututashibo it supposes i have a web server
23:06.16*** join/#debian shibboleth (~shibbolet@gateway/tor-sasl/shibboleth)
23:13.59iuiututai guess
23:06.25iuiututathe dependencies
23:06.41jordanmpipenv is really nice for development
23:14.14shibbolethno, this was just an example
23:06.54iuiututawithout pip i cant run a script
23:14.20iuiututaoh
23:15.08iuiututakali ente response
23:06.57at0mthough many 'user guides' and howto's suggest to pip install, first check debian repo's, probably there's a package that can be apt installed
23:08.37iuiututai expect to meee to be trusty not buster
23:09.25shibbolethyou can also do pip install --user
23:09.41shibboleththis will pull all the deps into the users .local folder
23:09.46shibbolethportable, ofc
23:18.04iuiututabut for you i noticed my python script to change passw is useless if passphrase is poor
23:18.23iuiututagreetings to debian team
23:10.39somiajiuiututa: one should often try to install stuff via debian packages and not pip. And if using pip, do this in a virtual enviroment
23:19.01*** mode/#debian [+l 1555] by debhelper
23:19.16*** join/#debian x0n- (~x0n@unaffiliated/x0n)
23:11.31shibbolethif your web app requires these libs, don't bother with virtualenv
23:19.28*** join/#debian st0rm (~OS-57298@2607:fea8:33df:ec52:c569:4cb4:4cbe:c2db)
23:11.45iuiututashibboleth good to know pip can install only in user pip space i will see this
23:20.17josspykeriuiututa: use keys?
23:12.06shibbolethcopy whatever users .local into /var/www and apache will be able to use the libs
23:20.29somiajiuiututa: are you running kali linux?
23:20.36*** join/#debian Thedarkb-X40 (~beno@51-171-49-125-dynamic.agg3.kny.prp-wtd.eircom.net)
23:20.58iuiututano kali here, buster
23:12.18*** join/#debian fred`` (fred@earthli.ng)
23:21.38iuiututawas jessie
23:21.49iuiututaand upgraded
23:22.14iuiututadid i?
23:13.52iuiututashibo it supposes i have a web server
23:13.59iuiututai guess
23:22.33*** part/#debian st0rm (~OS-57298@2607:fea8:33df:ec52:c569:4cb4:4cbe:c2db)
23:22.38iuiututanow you put a moskitoe in my ear
23:14.14shibbolethno, this was just an example
23:22.43*** join/#debian FierceDeityLink (~shayne@user-69-1-35-184.knology.net)
23:14.20iuiututaoh
23:23.19*** join/#debian Barralastic (~kvirc@92.255.124.118)
23:15.08iuiututakali ente response
23:26.04somiajjust checking, also don't hit enter so much
23:26.05somiaj!enter
23:18.04iuiututabut for you i noticed my python script to change passw is useless if passphrase is poor
23:26.06dpkgThe enter key is not a substitute for punctuation.  Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying.  Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead.  If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel.
23:18.23iuiututagreetings to debian team
23:26.20*** join/#debian Gerowen (~Gerowen@172.97.25.82)
23:27.22iuiututaDebian 3.16.72-1 (2019-08-13) x86_64 GNU/Linux
23:19.01*** mode/#debian [+l 1555] by debhelper
23:19.16*** join/#debian x0n- (~x0n@unaffiliated/x0n)
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23:20.17josspykeriuiututa: use keys?
23:20.29somiajiuiututa: are you running kali linux?
23:20.36*** join/#debian Thedarkb-X40 (~beno@51-171-49-125-dynamic.agg3.kny.prp-wtd.eircom.net)
23:20.58iuiututano kali here, buster
23:21.38iuiututawas jessie
23:21.49iuiututaand upgraded
23:33.10iuiututasometimes after a day i do liquor i get banned
23:33.16iuiututaa shame
23:22.14iuiututadid i?
23:22.33*** part/#debian st0rm (~OS-57298@2607:fea8:33df:ec52:c569:4cb4:4cbe:c2db)
23:33.55iuiututaon me
23:22.38iuiututanow you put a moskitoe in my ear
23:34.50iuiututabut afterall i enjoy the interaction
23:22.43*** join/#debian FierceDeityLink (~shayne@user-69-1-35-184.knology.net)
23:35.06somiaj!off-topic
23:23.19*** join/#debian Barralastic (~kvirc@92.255.124.118)
23:35.06dpkg#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users.  Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic.  Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
23:35.10iuiututaand learning
23:35.20somiajiuiututa: There are places to just interact vs adding noise to the support channel
23:35.49iuiututaam i getting noisy?
23:26.04somiajjust checking, also don't hit enter so much
23:26.05somiaj!enter
23:26.06dpkgThe enter key is not a substitute for punctuation.  Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying.  Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead.  If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel.
23:36.44*** join/#debian shayne (~shayne@user-69-1-35-184.knology.net)
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23:37.47iuiututai like to learn here
23:27.22iuiututaDebian 3.16.72-1 (2019-08-13) x86_64 GNU/Linux
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23:39.00iuiututamake friends ... :-(
23:29.36*** join/#debian Barralastic (~kvirc@92.255.124.118)
23:30.25*** join/#debian dreamon_ (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon)
23:42.06iuiututadebian did a hercules job untill today but bugs is part of the coding job
23:44.04*** join/#debian amospalla (~amospalla@unaffiliated/amospalla)
23:45.04iuiututaslow is not bug
23:33.10iuiututasometimes after a day i do liquor i get banned
23:33.16iuiututaa shame
23:45.50iuiututai reported elsewhere
23:46.06iuiututaforget
23:46.19*** join/#debian Mazhive (~Mazhive@143.0.33.20)
23:33.55iuiututaon me
23:34.50iuiututabut afterall i enjoy the interaction
23:46.32*** join/#debian alexandros_tab (~alexandro@unaffiliated/alexandros-c/x-1684531)
23:35.06somiaj!off-topic
23:35.06dpkg#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users.  Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic.  Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
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23:35.10iuiututaand learning
23:47.56iuiututais there a script to get my system more tight than is? not a report analises comman
23:35.20somiajiuiututa: There are places to just interact vs adding noise to the support channel
23:48.52iuiututait is tight on install
23:49.08iuiututawith no ssh server
23:49.14*** join/#debian blizzow (~blizzow@c-71-196-155-136.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
23:49.27iuiututawitch is a no comment
23:53.36*** join/#debian learjet60xr (~learjet60@104.238.58.99)
23:35.49iuiututaam i getting noisy?
23:36.44*** join/#debian shayne (~shayne@user-69-1-35-184.knology.net)
23:37.47iuiututai like to learn here
23:38.45*** join/#debian BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@2a00:23c5:6e26:d813:c4cc:4e2d:9da3:bef3)
23:39.00iuiututamake friends ... :-(
23:54.54*** join/#debian brokencycle (~brokencyc@90.207.21.183)
23:42.06iuiututadebian did a hercules job untill today but bugs is part of the coding job
23:56.10iuiututai shall give up pip repos
23:56.50iuiututacant read millions of codes before run
23:44.04*** join/#debian amospalla (~amospalla@unaffiliated/amospalla)
23:57.40iuiututatrustfull
23:45.04iuiututaslow is not bug
23:59.39iuiututatrust in source, do yo put your hand in fire for what source you dot know?
23:45.50iuiututai reported elsewhere
23:46.06iuiututaforget
23:46.19*** join/#debian Mazhive (~Mazhive@143.0.33.20)
23:46.32*** join/#debian alexandros_tab (~alexandro@unaffiliated/alexandros-c/x-1684531)
23:47.00*** join/#debian zetuno (~zetuno@unaffiliated/zetuno)
23:47.56iuiututais there a script to get my system more tight than is? not a report analises comman
23:48.52iuiututait is tight on install
23:49.08iuiututawith no ssh server
23:49.14*** join/#debian blizzow (~blizzow@c-71-196-155-136.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
23:49.27iuiututawitch is a no comment
23:53.36*** join/#debian learjet60xr (~learjet60@104.238.58.99)
23:54.54*** join/#debian brokencycle (~brokencyc@90.207.21.183)
23:56.10iuiututai shall give up pip repos
23:56.50iuiututacant read millions of codes before run
23:57.40iuiututatrustfull
23:59.39iuiututatrust in source, do yo put your hand in fire for what source you dot know?

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