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| 00:18.14 | simpledat | What encryption does it use when you do LVM disk encryption during install? |
| 00:19.33 | kyych | ehh, editing logind.conf seems not to work. I uncomented HandleLidSwitch=suspend, and restarted logind service, even reboot my machine. It is not working |
| 00:19.36 | kyych | any ideas why? |
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| 00:30.08 | milkt | kyych: what do you mean with not working? |
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| 00:32.27 | mindpattern | hi guys. i have a staging server (very little traffic normally) which for the last 10 days has been sending out a crazy 50gb a day in outgoing traffic. its hosted on cloudways. i see the spike happens every 30 mins. 20 mins past the hour and 50 mins past the hour. are there any linux commands i can use to try to understand what this traffic is? cloudways have not been helpful. they have just told me it's https traffic. i have turned |
| 00:32.28 | mindpattern | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:33.06 | kyych | milkt: after closing lid laptop is not suspended :p |
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| 00:36.37 | milkt | kyych: is your laptop connected to charger? does manual suspending work? |
| 00:37.33 | kyych | nope, charger is disconnected |
| 00:37.45 | kyych | suspend work if I type systemctl suspend |
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| 00:39.37 | rander2 | !help |
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| 00:44.54 | rander2 | backports |
| 00:45.01 | rander2 | !backports |
| 00:45.01 | dpkg | A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch02.en.html (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), http://backports.debian.org/ . Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>. See also <simple sid backport>. |
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| 00:50.53 | jakefb | hi everyone, I am having a problem with setting up an nfs client in debian |
| 00:51.45 | jakefb | when I mount the nfs volume the owner and group permissions are all set to 4294967294 |
| 00:52.23 | jakefb | I have head this can be caused by domain value in /etc/idmapd.conf |
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| 01:02.48 | darkdrgn2k3 | hi all |
| 01:03.09 | darkdrgn2k3 | an empty file in "/etc/udev/rules.d/80-persistent-net.rules" does not seem to disable predicvice naming anymore |
| 01:03.12 | darkdrgn2k3 | anyone have any insight? |
| 01:03.17 | rwp | jakefb, 4294967294 sounds like -2 which is the nobody user, right? Are you root with root_squash active? |
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| 01:04.03 | rwp | darkdrgn2k3, Are you wanting to add net.ifnames=0 to the kernel boot command line? |
| 01:04.16 | dvs | I thought it was 70-persistent-net.rules |
| 01:04.42 | darkdrgn2k3 | dvs, /lib/udev/rules.d shows it as 80 |
| 01:04.48 | darkdrgn2k3 | rwp, dont think so |
| 01:05.49 | dvs | darkdrgn2k3, check /etc/udev/rules.d/ |
| 01:06.13 | darkdrgn2k3 | empty asside from the placeholder i mentioend above |
| 01:06.24 | darkdrgn2k3 | the idea is to overwrite the udev rules in lib |
| 01:06.41 | darkdrgn2k3 | however even after removing the rule from lib it still gets renamed and im not sure why |
| 01:08.14 | jakefb | rwp, yes that is what I have found according to this article https://www.suse.com/support/kb/doc/?id=7005060 |
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| 01:08.35 | jakefb | rwp, how do I know if root_squash is active? |
| 01:08.47 | rwp | If you haven't changed anything then root_squash is the default. |
| 01:08.56 | jakefb | yes it should be |
| 01:09.01 | darkdrgn2k3 | jakefb, i beleave root_squash is active unless you specify it not to be |
| 01:09.02 | rwp | Instead of trying to be root, use a non-root id. That is the intention. |
| 01:09.09 | rwp | NFS is for non-root users, by default. |
| 01:09.47 | darkdrgn2k3 | ok even after erasing all the ruesl in /libe/udev/rules.d it still renamed it ?!? |
| 01:10.01 | rwp | If you have a "special case" then you can turn off root_squash and then root will be root over NFS. But otherwise root is mapped to the nobody user for security and safety. |
| 01:10.24 | jakefb | rwp, so you mean chmod the nfs folder in export so the owner and group is something other than root? |
| 01:11.00 | rwp | Cautiously I will say yes. But the answer depends upon what you are doing and how that directory was created and so forth. |
| 01:11.16 | rwp | You said folder instead of directory so I assume you are using Unix tools for the first time? |
| 01:11.43 | jakefb | I meant to say directory |
| 01:11.59 | rwp | How did you get to this point? I assume you set up a server and a client and then started testing as roo. |
| 01:12.03 | rwp | as root. |
| 01:12.15 | rwp | But if you were a non-root user then things should work as one would expect. |
| 01:12.34 | rwp | You will need to make the directory user:group:permissions available to the user. |
| 01:13.01 | rwp | For instance I might make a directory rwp-stuff and then "chown rwp rwp-stuff" and so forth and then my uid can access it. |
| 01:13.22 | rwp | Or if I have something shared among several users I might put them all in a group, say "photos" and then chgrp and chmod the directory. |
| 01:13.41 | rwp | chgrp photos group-photos ; chmod g+ws group-photos |
| 01:13.57 | rwp | Then all users in that shared group have access to the shared directory. |
| 01:14.22 | jakefb | both the nfs server and client are docker containers running debian, but they are both set up as the root user so it sounds like I should use a different user other than root |
| 01:14.56 | rwp | Normally one would use a different user than root. Yes. But there is no single correct answer. It all depends upon what you are doing. |
| 01:15.27 | rwp | For example if exporting the entire file system then allowing root is a less than good choice because it allows remote access to the operating system files. /etc, /bin, and so forth. |
| 01:15.56 | rwp | But if exporting a full secondary partition such as /srv/data or some such then perhaps okay because then root cannot get to the OS files on the system. |
| 01:16.05 | rwp | So you see it all depends. |
| 01:17.15 | rwp | Also in an nfs mounted home directory workstation environment it is typical to disallow root most places but to allow one system to have root access for administrative purposes. And keep that one system locked down as much as possible since it has root access to the others. |
| 01:18.40 | rwp | I'm just providing some low level information. It is up to you as the local admin on the spot to make a judgement decision on the best way to do this. |
| 01:19.10 | jakefb | rwp thanks for explaining. To clarify, what does root_squash do? Does it disallow any files in the nfs export directory from having root permissions? |
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| 01:20.07 | rwp | root_squash maps the root user uid 0 to the nobody user id -2. That is all that it does. All other users are left unmapped. |
| 01:20.33 | jakefb | Okay that makes sense |
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| 01:20.44 | rwp | Over NFS root uid 0 is the only "safe" user because any other user can be spoofed. |
| 01:21.21 | rwp | Basically the server trusts the client that the uids it passes are correct and trustworthy. |
| 01:21.34 | rwp | But NFS itself has very little infrastructure to enforce that trust. |
| 01:22.01 | rwp | But if you trust the client, because both the client and server are your docker images, then that is where the security exists. |
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| 01:22.23 | rwp | As long as a hostile 3rd user on the Internet cannot nfs mount the server then this is a reasonable thing. |
| 01:22.49 | rwp | But if a hostile 3rd party user on the Internet can actually nfs mount the server then that 3rd party can be any user on their system and spoof any user on the nfs mount file system. |
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| 01:23.48 | rwp | If both are your docker images and no others can network into their shared network then it doesn't matter because the networking doesn't allow any other access. |
| 01:25.13 | rwp | I know this is a lot of information in little pieces. But that is NFS for you! Hopefully it helps regardless. |
| 01:26.32 | jakefb | thanks I appreciate your help I understand why it was causing a problem now |
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| 01:28.32 | jcb2016 | Kinda upset right now I got Ubuntu installed to a flash drive full drivers I reboot from flash drive everything saves and is fine. Why canât I get Debian to install to my flash drive and boot up properly with firmware installed? Would really like to know |
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| 02:24.23 | zumba_ad_ | hi all. I'm using mariadb client 10.1.37. I need to upgrade to 10.2.x. How do I do it? |
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| 02:27.19 | dvs | zumba_ad_, you can't. Debian has 10.1 and 10.3 |
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| 02:27.48 | zumba_ad_ | I found something. I should not follow this? https://websiteforstudents.com/upgrading-mariadb-from-10-0-to-10-1-to-10-2-on-ubuntu-16-04-17-10/ |
| 02:28.01 | zumba_ad_ | Ok, how do I install 10.3? |
| 02:28.09 | zumba_ad_ | I just uninstalled my 10.1 |
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| 02:28.35 | dvs | unfortunately, it's in buster (Debian 10) |
| 02:29.11 | zumba_ad_ | so I'll have to install from tar.gz? |
| 02:30.09 | dvs | If you want it that badly... |
| 02:30.42 | zumba_ad_ | yes, i really need higher than 10.1 |
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| 02:34.34 | noahmg123 | My laptop seems to try and throttle itself when my battery is below 10% or something. It slows to the point of near unusability, but performance restores upon plugging into AC power. |
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| 02:35.12 | zumba_ad_ | I can't believe, all the links are returning 404, even the mirrors |
| 02:36.17 | zumba_ad_ | I'm on this page - https://downloads.mariadb.org/mariadb/10.3.13/ |
| 02:36.31 | zumba_ad_ | Then I select a linux, Nginx says 404 |
| 02:37.04 | zumba_ad_ | which brings me here - https://downloads.mariadb.org/interstitial/mariadb-10.3.13/bintar-linux-x86_64/mariadb-10.3.13-linux-x86_64.tar.gz/from/http%3A//mirror.lstn.net/mariadb/ |
| 02:37.09 | zumba_ad_ | it's downloading now |
| 02:37.29 | zumba_ad_ | that was intermittent |
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| 02:46.38 | aloo_shu | noahmg123: could be two things: either, the cpu governor is getting set to something very conservative at 10%, or passing the 10% threshold is triggering some action that doesn't finish, e.g. a hibernation that doesn't work |
| 02:48.35 | aloo_shu | noahmg123: in the power manager settings of your desktop environment, you should be able to see and set what happens at low/critically low power |
| 02:50.30 | Terrell | I would like osme advise on how to set up a computer. I have two of these. Both about the same. Say Terabyte drives. They currently have either windows 7 or 10 and they are both 64 bit machines. So. I want Windows 7 and 10 and Debian Linux Multiboot and VM if possible. I am thinking a large common user data space. If I use NTFS then all should be able to access it right? |
| 02:50.40 | aloo_shu | other tools, like task manager, cpu freq widget, or the 'top' - command in a terminal, would allow you to see what is happening at 10% |
| 02:51.13 | aloo_shu | ^ noahmg123 |
| 02:51.30 | zumba_ad_ | what is this referring to? ln -s full-path-to-mysql-VERSION-OS mysql I'm asking about `full-path-to-mysql-VERSION-OS` |
| 02:52.51 | aloo_shu | noahmg123: also possible that your bios is having some exotic powersave functions, but it'd be rare |
| 02:52.52 | zumba_ad_ | oh |
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| 02:53.13 | zumba_ad_ | LOL, that is very bad documentation in INSTALL-BINARY |
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| 02:53.48 | zumba_ad_ | it can really confuse people installing mariadb |
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| 03:05.59 | SerajewelKS | Terrell: what does "VM if possible" mean |
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| 03:06.41 | SerajewelKS | Terrell: there is also the option of exfat for the common space |
| 03:06.42 | SerajewelKS | !exfat |
| 03:06.43 | dpkg | exFAT (Extended File Allocation Table, <MBR> partition ID 0x07) is a proprietary file system designed for flash drives. A <FUSE> driver providing exFAT read/write support is packaged for Debian as exfat-fuse. http://code.google.com/p/exfat/ . Not to be confused with FATX. |
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| 03:39.55 | Furry_Kitty | What could happen if I use MX Linux repository (deb https://mirror.kku.ac.th/mx-packages/mx/repo/ stretch main non-free) on Debian and use it to install some software. Eg: Conky-Manager |
| 03:40.33 | dvs | !frankendebian |
| 03:40.34 | dpkg | When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall> |
| 03:41.04 | Furry_Kitty | Good to know. Thanks. |
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| 03:41.27 | noahmg123 | aloo_shu: I found that that /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_cur_freq values are being capped around 400000 |
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| 03:42.19 | noahmg123 | That's about 1/5 of what some of them get up to |
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| 03:44.54 | Terrell | SerajewelKS, Virtual Machine I am just back from the store |
| 03:45.54 | aloo_shu | that said, if mx are doing a good job of maintaining a dedicated debian repo, than you might be lucky, and the quality is above 'random pkg from random repo' with regards to compatibility and reversibility of changes, Furry_Kitty , only that here, nobody can or will guarantee that |
| 03:47.05 | Terrell | I was thinking as I walked over... just go with say an 80 MB partition for w7 and ditto for W10. Should be both NTFS. Then perhaps 2 OS partitions for Linux so I can test stuff and with a VM I can run the otehr copy as an application if needed and then one BIG partition for /usr |
| 03:48.05 | Terrell | not /urs pardon /home |
| 03:48.20 | Terrell | I was thinking as I walked over... just go with say an 80 MB partition for w7 and ditto for W10. Should be both NTFS. Then perhaps 2 OS partitions for Linux so I can test stuff and with a VM I can run the otehr copy as an application if needed and then one BIG partition for /home |
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| 03:53.45 | aloo_shu | ok, noahmg123 , if it's happening via /sys, then it's definitely linux, not the bios. Did you find anything in the powermanagement settings? |
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| 04:04.56 | noahmg123 | aloo_shu: None that reference something like this. Why would it be the BIOS though? Windows, as far as I remember, did not have this issue. |
| 04:06.15 | aloo_shu | forget about bios |
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| 04:09.59 | aloo_shu | windows definitely has cpu governor settings in the advanced settings for power management. I cannot tell you where to find that configuration settings are in debian, if they are not exposed in the desktop environments settings gui, I could just suggest guesses |
| 04:10.55 | ckur13 | anyone having problems running apt upgrade with the hashes being incorrect size |
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| 04:13.08 | Terrell | I was thinking as I walked over... just go with say an 80 MB partition for w7 and ditto for W10. Should be both NTFS. Then perhaps 2 OS partitions for Linux so I can test stuff and with a VM I can run the other copy as an application if needed and then one BIG partition for /home |
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| 04:15.04 | Terrell | not in context. I am setting up a multiboot machine Windows 7 windows 10 and Linux. |
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| 04:36.33 | Tordek | hi, I just got a radeon graphics card and xorg is segfaulting after/during loading glamoregl |
| 04:36.36 | Tordek | I purged nvidia, installed the firmware, and deleted xorg.conf |
| 04:36.38 | Tordek | I'm on "mostly stretch" |
| 04:36.45 | Tordek | the last line in xorg.0.log mentions a segfault on 0x0 |
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| 04:53.39 | Ingvix | Hey, I tried to get spotify working on buster by packaging a private libcurl3 with it as instructed here: https://community.spotify.com/t5/Desktop-Linux/Recent-linux-client-update-changes/m-p/4700744/highlight/true#M17425 |
| 04:53.39 | Ingvix | Despite that spotify still tries to seek the CURL_OPENSSL_3 from the lib in the normal library path with libcurl4 and not the one set in LD_LIBRARY_PATH in the script. Any ideas how get around? (I already asked in #debian-next but with this chan being more active and the solution probably not being buster specific, I also decided to ask here too) |
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| 05:15.56 | Tordek | ok, for reference, the segfault issue was that glx-alternative-mesa was missing |
| 05:16.24 | Tordek | so I guess there's a missing dependency between those packages |
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| 06:09.12 | zumba_ad_ | sorry for the off topic question. Who drinks red wine here? |
| 06:11.25 | diogenes_ | drinks only as means against any sorts of flu, viruses etc. |
| 06:12.27 | zumba_ad_ | I mean, I opened a red wine back in January and only drank like half of the bottle. I closed it. Then today, I want to drink it. Looks like it's not color red anymore. It changed |
| 06:12.49 | zumba_ad_ | should I just throw this away? |
| 06:13.10 | diogenes_ | yeah |
| 06:13.22 | zumba_ad_ | the taste has changed too |
| 06:13.24 | zumba_ad_ | it's so bitter |
| 06:13.42 | zumba_ad_ | looks like the alcohol content went up |
| 06:13.56 | diogenes_ | yes, no good. |
| 06:14.06 | zumba_ad_ | cool. Thanks |
| 06:14.33 | diogenes_ | yw |
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| 06:50.39 | sneep | Red wine vinegar is made by leaving red wine in a warm place for a while |
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| 07:29.59 | radkos | hello I'm trying to execute grub-install so the grub is not going to create /boot/grub/uuid/<something> and search for it on boot |
| 07:30.03 | radkos | how can i achieve that? |
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| 07:57.06 | darxmurf | morning |
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| 08:22.44 | Terrell | I am setting up a multiboot machine Windows 7 windows 10 and Linux. |
| 08:23.02 | Terrell | I was thinking as I walked over... just go with say an 80 MB partition for w7 and ditto for W10. Should be both NTFS. Then perhaps 2 OS partitions for Linux so I can test stuff and with a VM I can run the otehr copy as an application if needed and then one BIG partition for /home |
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| 08:39.09 | sneep | Terrell: 80 MB? |
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| 08:42.22 | Terrell | sneep Nice to meet you. Ya. Just a number out of the air. 80 GB partition on a 500 GB to 1 TB drive |
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| 08:43.00 | Terrell | sneep Where are you from? |
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| 08:44.46 | sneep | Earth, Milky Way |
| 08:45.08 | Terrell | LOL I'm in Calgary. For all I know you are a fish in Nebraska |
| 08:45.50 | Terrell | sneep youu forgot sol. But the Vogons have a different map |
| 08:46.24 | pagetelegram | Got a job that wants me to do off-site work. I asked them to purchase me a hard drive and carrage for my getac lappy. HIPAA type stuff and sensative credentials I will be carrying. Can I setup a debian install that when hard drive is encrupted that the hard drive begins zero-write if N number of attempts to password have failed? |
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| 08:46.57 | Terrell | pagetelegram, yes |
| 08:47.29 | Terrell | pagetelegram, you can and should encrypt and you can issue a CERT to yourself. No one can crack that. |
| 08:48.08 | pagetelegram | Good, my memory is a bit rusty....havent encrupted install in a while. How can I keep myself from loosing the cert file? Ideas thinking....keychain? |
| 08:48.27 | Terrell | pagetelegram, I use to work on OpenSSL. I even know wherre Dr Tim Hudson's wife is... and his wifes best friend who just happens to be a professor of education in Griffiths Uni in Brisbane |
| 08:48.58 | Terrell | pagetelegram, put it on a card in your bank vault |
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| 08:49.26 | pagetelegram | oh ok....don't need to know any of that. :P Bank Vault....I need to access this stuff everyday....oh you mean a backup copy! gotcha |
| 08:49.28 | Terrell | I guess sneed is gone |
| 08:49.54 | Terrell | sneep, I am just looking for suggestions. |
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| 08:50.23 | Terrell | Once I get these machines configured then they will stay that way for ever |
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| 08:50.42 | Terrell | yep |
| 08:51.00 | pagetelegram | I'll give a copy to my boss, have one on keychain and ask my credit union if they have those safety deposit boxes. Need anyhow I undergo open heart surgery in two months and need to secure my Last WIll and WIshes for my rep |
| 08:51.02 | sneep | 80 GB isn't very much for Windows |
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| 08:51.23 | sneep | Depends on what you're going to do on those Windows installations though |
| 08:51.29 | Terrell | I would not necessarily rely on a USB. You want a card you can carry in your wallet and I know this is feasible and have told such to my bank. |
| 08:51.53 | pagetelegram | PCMCIA and Express-slot I have on getac |
| 08:52.04 | Terrell | sneep, nothing. Really as little as possible. I quit windows before 1998 |
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| 08:52.40 | pagetelegram | 98 is when I started using OS/2 Warp as my desktop....then Red Hat then Windows XP...7...then Debian flavours. |
| 08:52.57 | at0m | pagetelegram: even if you could have the bootloader wipe the luks fs after x failed attempts, what if i just pulled the disk from the laptop and tried to mount it on another machine? see, there's no use in auto-wipe. |
| 08:53.09 | Terrell | pagetelegram, if you have a reader and these are avaiable on on keyboards made by the company that took over the IBM PS/2 line... then that is the way to go. |
| 08:53.42 | Terrell | atAT0M EXACTLY |
| 08:53.56 | pagetelegram | I have a smart card reader that I never used or even put in my mind until now |
| 08:54.06 | pagetelegram | built in |
| 08:54.23 | at0m | pagetelegram: other than that, the debian installer has an option to FDE (full disk encrypt) your partitions (apart from the bootloader) |
| 08:54.54 | Terrell | sneep, the windows shit is there because I amy need to do some image editing and I am also about to start setting up a robotic manufacturing line. I want everything Linux based. But I might have to use some crappy software as well |
| 08:54.54 | pagetelegram | THat was what I was thinking HDD encruption not bootloader I didn't even think that was a thing - bootloader |
| 08:55.19 | Terrell | pathat is what you should use. |
| 08:55.32 | pagetelegram | And yes I be swaping hard drives from personal to company |
| 08:56.05 | Terrell | page get a copy of OpenSSL. There is a untility where you generate a self signed cert. |
| 08:56.29 | pagetelegram | Thanks |
| 08:56.45 | Terrell | This is what Banks should be offering to all their customers. Its real security. |
| 08:57.03 | sneep | pagetelegram: I hope your surgery goes well |
| 08:57.41 | Terrell | pagetelegram, keep me posted. I don't think I will need it but as I said I have worked with it. I use it on my web servers. It in the Https protocol |
| 08:57.41 | pagetelegram | Everyone tells me not to worry. I will be fine knowing that all the papers and ducks are in order before going under the knife. I can't trust next to kin to honor my wishes. |
| 08:58.21 | pagetelegram | Will do, be back on here after recovery....still couple months away tho. |
| 08:58.32 | Terrell | page brest enhancement? Nip Tuk is a good place to get consulting |
| 08:59.04 | pagetelegram | Na, :P two bengign masse growths that will cause problems soon if not zapped. |
| 08:59.26 | at0m | encryption! |
| 08:59.31 | at0m | !encryption |
| 08:59.31 | dpkg | Encryption is useful to keep data protected on your system. There is a nice guide on how to use LVM encrypted partitions at http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/469 . See also <dm-crypt>, <ecryptfs>, <encfs>, <gpg>, <luks>. |
| 08:59.34 | pagetelegram | Already causes me shallow breathing and difficulty with intense activity |
| 08:59.50 | Terrell | should not be a problem. At you going to see a plastic surgeon after? |
| 09:00.06 | pagetelegram | Most Debian installs ask if you want encryption from partitioning gpart. |
| 09:00.16 | at0m | right |
| 09:00.26 | Terrell | page but I suppose they want a password. |
| 09:00.58 | Terrell | using a cert is much better and just use public key encryption. |
| 09:01.03 | pagetelegram | I doubt that is an option or even covered by insurance....anyway it is of non-importance how the scare makes me look....if anything adds charactor. |
| 09:01.06 | Terrell | For this a smart card. |
| 09:01.25 | at0m | pagetelegram: re: bootloader, indeed the decryption libs can't be stored encrypted, so there's a small part at boot that tells those where the encrypted partition is and has provisions to decrypt then continue load the OS from there |
| 09:01.46 | pagetelegram | So I encrypt post installation with generating a cert key? |
| 09:02.01 | Terrell | ya. I'm a hasher. check www.onon.org which BTW I own. I'm donating it. That was the intention in the first place. |
| 09:02.08 | at0m | pagetelegram: no, during installation, before files are written to the system partition |
| 09:03.20 | Terrell | a USA diplomat hurt himself on one of our runs... a friend actually. I hurt myself another time. Slipped on the floor and fell on a server with the cover off parked in my hallway. Had to call my daughter to take her beeling dad to the hospital. We were comparing scars |
| 09:03.21 | pagetelegram | Looks good in lynx (i'm on console only install) |
| 09:03.32 | pagetelegram | Work good in any d**m browser lol |
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| 09:04.38 | pagetelegram | Some links are dead ends....The magic one |
| 09:05.01 | Terrell | I think you will need the cert first and store encrypted files. If the key is in the reader it can be copied to a file on boot up and deleted on shut down or whenever you want. If the key is present then faille can be reaed. Otherwise forget it. |
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| 09:05.37 | Terrell | Oh really! I'll have to call Mike. |
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| 09:06.17 | Terrell | Those were funny. It was me on one of those runs. We set the trail using flour. COps thought I was trying to poison the city. |
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| 09:08.55 | pagetelegram | yeah unable to connect to host with "Tribute to Magic" my luck being the first link I enter. |
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| 09:09.52 | Terrell | sneep, so.. windows is only there if I need it. I want to be able to back up to tape as well. I have NEVER seen a hard drive inerface live forever. We can read tapes from the 1960's |
| 09:10.24 | Terrell | pagetelegram, Magic died a few years ago. But that was never on our servers |
| 09:10.50 | Terrell | sneep, this may not be true of USB |
| 09:11.27 | Terrell | sneep, I have used EVERY interface since the old MFM drives. |
| 09:11.28 | pagetelegram | If it's not too "deep" archive might have mirrored it. |
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| 09:11.43 | Terrell | Mike will check it out. |
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| 09:13.28 | at0m | Terrell: i thought i had a lot of SCSI interfaces and cables, but a sampler i recently got has yet another format. oh the joy. but that's probably more for #debian-offtopic |
| 09:13.41 | Terrell | sneep, What if I use 128 gb partitions. These match usb stick sizes. Makes it handy to back up. |
| 09:14.01 | Terrell | I have never even filled an 80 GB drive with my stuff |
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| 09:14.30 | Terrell | atthey use to call me Mr. SCSI |
| 09:15.04 | at0m | i guess that's not for your habit of tipping over people's coffees |
| 09:15.26 | Terrell | at0m, I was selling them at the time... a dealer. I took every drive that came into Canada and was importing out of the US as well. Fujitsu dealer as well. |
| 09:16.47 | Terrell | I was trying to remember. WE were hanging 9GB drives on I think 386's. Like a dozen of them. Can you imagine a 386 with a dozen 9GB drives on it |
| 09:17.00 | Terrell | Now I want my money back! |
| 09:17.44 | at0m | eheh. my drives were in the order of 20-200MB back then |
| 09:18.00 | Terrell | sneep, biggest issue for me really is backups. |
| 09:18.29 | Terrell | ya well we were and still are doing geophysics. Carmine has 3000 core computers running. |
| 09:19.47 | Terrell | my 1st computer was a 286 bough the day the Challenger blew up so that was I think 1986 and it cost me $10,000 My house was only worth about $100,000 |
| 09:20.45 | pagetelegram | I went backwards, Started on an 80386 MCA PS/2 tower (beast) then went to 80286 then 8088 Zenith Datasystems laptop something-Sport |
| 09:21.48 | Terrell | pagetelegram, I think I went both ways also. But I had the 286 and skipped the 386 then bought a 486 and next a 400 mHz celron pentium. |
| 09:22.05 | FinalX | my first was a WANG 8086.. but that was not the family first, as my grandparents & family had an accountancy firm.. they even had a computer that took up an entire room in my grandparents' house (hi real bugs).. and later a smaller one with WANG 1mbit disks (huge copper plates with a handle you could plug in to the "wall" of computers |
| 09:22.29 | FinalX | grandpa's went to grandma, grandma's to my mom, my mom's to me, etc :P was lucky |
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| 09:22.50 | Terrell | pagetelegram, and that one was interesting because I upgraded the CPU to a PIII tualatin core at 1.3 GhZ and stayed there. Its still here and I have to now replace it. |
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| 09:22.51 | pagetelegram | At least you had something to zap them bugs (bug zapper) |
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| 09:23.30 | pagetelegram | My math professor used his NeXTCube until 2002. He passed it on to me. Wish I didn't put it to the curb |
| 09:23.35 | FinalX | (note: 1 mbit, not 1mbyte) |
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| 09:24.01 | Terrell | FinalX, that is so funny. I bought and off line Calcomp plotter... and had to program it! And it worked. 9 track drive and wire wrap |
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| 09:24.40 | Terrell | I have a 36" Calcomp plotter here. I hae a 300 LPM band printer. |
| 09:25.05 | FinalX | I just tossed some old pc's but I left my first ever self-bought system, Intel Pentium board that I got with a Pentium 75 CPU, and later my grandpa gave me his Pentium 133, it's still in there. And later even I did some off-the-books work for a computer shop and he paid me with 64MB RAM |
| 09:25.14 | FinalX | Huge, full, tower, and I can't bring myself to toss it. |
| 09:25.36 | Terrell | I hate to toss them! Damn! If I knock down this house I can install display cabinates and maybe make them structural |
| 09:25.57 | FinalX | well, I have a baby coming and need the space, so :( |
| 09:26.03 | FinalX | had to make some choices |
| 09:26.10 | Terrell | lol |
| 09:26.22 | FinalX | plus the ones I tossed weren't as old in comparison, Core2Duo, Celerons, etc. |
| 09:26.28 | FinalX | not much love lost on those |
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| 09:26.48 | Terrell | My kids are grown. Unfortunately my son is dead. google Jessica Patterson and Joseph Larson |
| 09:26.50 | FinalX | still have some 3DFX cards, too |
| 09:27.28 | Terrell | Actually the Tualatin core PIII outran even the 1.7 P4's |
| 09:27.39 | Terrell | instuction queue issue. |
| 09:28.00 | pagetelegram | I've used a floppy based linux for older systems (8088 and 8086) forgot what it is called...too fringe to be listed on online articles tho. I used it to dd zero write ancient hard drives (MFM/RLE) for resale to collectors at FreeGeek |
| 09:28.11 | Terrell | But these new machines. I bough a pair of I5's WOW. Quad core.. peddle to the metal. |
| 09:28.19 | FinalX | We still have a sort of museum at work that I built with some other folks, but now our mother company wants to get rid of us.. so gonna see if I can find a new, proper home for them nearby :) |
| 09:28.41 | Terrell | who is your mother company? |
| 09:28.50 | FinalX | back then there was no Linux, though. my 8086 was running MS-DOS 2.x and later 3.x iirc. |
| 09:28.52 | FinalX | KPN |
| 09:29.46 | Terrell | got them all. Breath of fresh air with Linux. I did look at a unix machine. COuld not afford it... well I could have ... but its the price points since nobody back then knew much about computers |
| 09:29.59 | Terrell | Don't know of them |
| 09:30.44 | pagetelegram | Begins with an S....trying to recall . Was kernal and basic commands specifically designed to fit even on them 8" floppies |
| 09:30.44 | FinalX | my first Linux distro's came from a CD set from the local computer store, and I tried them all on that Pentium 133 w/ 64MB RAM I mentioned earlier back then |
| 09:30.53 | Terrell | I am trying to figure out how to get an old DOS editor running. Brief. I can run NT4.0 in a virtual machine.. and I might try it. |
| 09:31.15 | FinalX | RedHat (before the split up to Fedora/CentOS/RHEL), Slackware, SuSE, not sure if I had Debian on there too, I think I did |
| 09:31.38 | FinalX | I ran RedHat for a while, but SuSE the longest on it, I think.. it was just the most mature desktop environment back then |
| 09:31.55 | FinalX | (for a computer and utter newbie to linux/unix in general that is) |
| 09:32.05 | Terrell | on a pentium 233 with MAX MEMORY OF COURSE I ran Linux... VMWare... DOS (I think) and Oracle and was doing a port |
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| 09:32.33 | pagetelegram | found it. Is called ELKS linux by Jody |
| 09:32.51 | Terrell | I ran RedHat and then switched to Debian. And just stayed there |
| 09:32.51 | pagetelegram | from Tritech |
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| 09:33.06 | pagetelegram | Same, Once debian never looked back |
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| 09:33.34 | Terrell | I trie Ubuntu and was ready to puke. |
| 09:33.41 | FinalX | Yeah, I ran all MS-DOS versions, all Windows versions, OS/2 Warp. When I got those Linux CD's I just dove in without thinking and wiped my entire harddisk and started with Linux, determined to learn everything I could. |
| 09:33.45 | Terrell | The things I need were not present |
| 09:34.08 | Terrell | same. Add in Solaris... I got that OS as well! |
| 09:34.16 | FinalX | I'm the reason my company switched to Debian (and sponsored servers for Debian) here like 15+ years ago :) |
| 09:34.22 | FinalX | I got fed up with FleaBSE. |
| 09:34.30 | pagetelegram | I used old version of Solaris....when they ditched CDE I ditched Solaris |
| 09:34.43 | Terrell | add in w97 w97 NT3.5 NT4.0 NT2000 |
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| 09:35.02 | Terrell | W95 soirry |
| 09:35.06 | pagetelegram | I prefer WindowMaker (OpenStep) for any DE. |
| 09:35.08 | FinalX | MySQL kept on having parent processes which had lost their children and then getting stuck in a loop due to a bug in FreeBSD's threading libraries that only got fixed in FreeBSD 10 or so. |
| 09:35.13 | Terrell | we've done them all! |
| 09:35.29 | pagetelegram | NT3.5 IBM called NT=Nice Try |
| 09:35.52 | Terrell | IBM had the world in their hands and blew it. |
| 09:35.53 | FinalX | I got so fed up I wiped the machines, installed Debian with MySQL and it never occurred again (Linux threading libs++); after that, more and more people started seeing how much nicer Debian was to maintain |
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| 09:35.54 | pagetelegram | "UP and Running, not Up and Coming" :P |
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| 09:36.24 | FinalX | Now we're at 1000+ Debian machines, and like 50+ Ubuntu ones (and we don't talk about the ~10 inherited RHEL machines). |
| 09:36.34 | fireba11 | FinalX: haha |
| 09:36.50 | Terrell | FinalX, must be a fairly big company |
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| 09:37.32 | Psyndrome | Is there a way to keep multiple windows activated at a time or at least to be activated with the mouse pointer without the need of clicking? |
| 09:37.35 | FinalX | XS4ALL; we used to host (part of) debian.org for a while, too.. and still run ftp.debian.nl |
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| 09:37.57 | Terrell | I have been consulting since 1982. On that side: TI990 UGGH HP3000 VAX PDP11 Prime Perkin Elmer IBM of course and there are otehrs I have forgotten |
| 09:38.34 | FinalX | must say that since hardware's become so much faster and more efficient, the amount of server is going down rapidly, and most get consolidated with virtualisation obv. |
| 09:38.37 | Terrell | Now I am going bee keeping. |
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| 09:39.16 | Terrell | I also run OpenBSD on hte web servers adn firewalls |
| 09:39.26 | pagetelegram | Just like Sherlock Holms....bee keeping in retirement. |
| 09:39.31 | FinalX | my coworker just took up bee keeping, and I'm often taking time to nurse bees back to health at home |
| 09:40.49 | FinalX | my cherry-plum mix tree is blossoming in full, there's dozens and dozens of bees in there almost every day, it's nice :) |
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| 09:41.10 | Terrell | FinalX, where from? |
| 09:41.33 | Terrell | We still have winter |
| 09:41.35 | FinalX | me? NL. |
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| 09:43.16 | Terrell | FinalX, what does NL stand for? |
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| 09:43.32 | Fox | Netherlands |
| 09:43.57 | Terrell | I thought so. I'm in Canada. Calgary |
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| 09:46.27 | Terrell | Well its been a nice discussion but I still need to repartition and install operating systems into my twin towers. |
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| 09:46.53 | Terrell | for the main partition for Linux... what would be a minimum size? |
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| 09:47.51 | Terrell | If I partition a TB drive into 128GB slices I should have 8 right? |
| 09:47.52 | rant | Terrell: if you are using only one partition and going to use a desktop install 8GB would be the bare minimum |
| 09:47.56 | FinalX | I wouldn't go below 8GB, with package upgraddes and log files.. if something small happens, it's full fairly fast |
| 09:47.56 | rant | !de usage |
| 09:47.57 | dpkg | somebody said de usage was The HDD/RAM usages of the 7 Stretch DE on amd64 VirtualBoxes with 1GB RAM / 32GB HDD are as follows as reported with only their terminals running df -Th and free -h: GNOME 4.2G 726M, KDE 4.1G 604M, Cinnamon 3.7G 482M, MATE 3.1G 215M, LXQt 3.1G 184M, LXDE 3.0G 180M, XFCE 2.9G 226M |
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| 09:48.18 | rant | Terrell: you'd need room to be able to do a dist-upgrade so.. 8GB would be cutting it thin |
| 09:48.21 | Terrell | rant, ya. THought so. Its not W$Bloiatware |
| 09:48.36 | jelly | Terrell: workstation or server? |
| 09:48.49 | *** part/#debian diogenes_ (~diogenes_@host-static-188-208-120-13.moldtelecom.md) |
| 09:48.53 | Terrell | rant only way I'll be down that small is on embedded processors |
| 09:49.01 | FinalX | I know that Ubuntu recommends 25GB+ for a comfortable desktop environment, and I'm inclined to agree. For servers you could go with way less, depending on what you're going to do. |
| 09:49.16 | Terrell | jelly all my machines are servers |
| 09:49.20 | FinalX | For my personal server I'm running a 16GB SLC stick as root, and having other disks for containers. |
| 09:49.21 | jelly | physical server: 10GB for /, workstation 20GB or so |
| 09:49.43 | jelly | Terrell: or use LVM and grow / size as needed |
| 09:49.50 | Terrell | jelly misinterprested. They do both desktop and can function as a server |
| 09:50.02 | indomitable | what is an SLC stick |
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| 09:50.05 | Terrell | I'll never be under 64gb. |
| 09:50.38 | FinalX | indomitable: SLC-flash drive as a SATA Disk-on-Module, that you can stick straight into a SATA-port on the motherboard. |
| 09:50.43 | pagetelegram | !wmaker usage |
| 09:50.57 | rant | heh |
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| 09:51.07 | Terrell | I can get 64GB sticks and 128GB sticks so cheap there is little reason to go any smaller. |
| 09:51.08 | indomitable | why not just use an ssd |
| 09:51.18 | pagetelegram | my beloved de not in that list :( |
| 09:51.23 | FinalX | it _is_ an SSD |
| 09:51.34 | indomitable | so it's a roudabout confusing way of saying SSD? |
| 09:51.40 | indomitable | roundabout* |
| 09:51.45 | FinalX | SLC is a type of SSD memory. |
| 09:51.58 | Terrell | FinalX, I am not familiar but I think different packaging. |
| 09:51.58 | rant | pagetelegram: I did the testing in virtualbox and made that factoid.. the point was to use Debian's actual DE for reference.. wmaker isnt really a DE and its ancient |
| 09:52.37 | FinalX | regular USB flash drives are in no way as reliable or performing as SLC/MLC/TLC drives are. |
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| 09:52.40 | Terrell | rant between virtualbox and VMWare... any comments? |
| 09:52.42 | indomitable | I never install Debian (or any other OS) desktop editions, too much junk software I don't care about comes with it |
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| 09:53.08 | rant | Terrell: VMware cost several hundred dollars, virtualbox costs $0 |
| 09:53.20 | Terrell | FinalX, that is goo9d to know. How do I use SSD then? What kind of interface? |
| 09:53.25 | pagetelegram | Still maintained though hanging by a thread it seems. Only good implemntation with debian is WindowMaker Live |
| 09:53.28 | rant | vmware player is free but you can't actually make machines, only use them |
| 09:53.40 | indomitable | Terrell, SSDs are SATA or NVMe or eMMC usually |
| 09:53.45 | rant | hasn't used vmware in ages |
| 09:53.53 | FinalX | SSDs are usually either SATA or M.2 format (with NVMe interface) |
| 09:54.25 | indomitable | I have never heard of an SLC stick, but it sounds suspiciously like an M.2 SSD |
| 09:54.38 | indomitable | (though obviously those don't connect via sata) |
| 09:54.38 | FinalX | I explained it in detail. |
| 09:54.45 | FinalX | It goes straight into the SATA port. |
| 09:54.54 | Terrell | indomitable, I bought a "toaster" so I can install 3.5" (?) and 5.25" without a case. Can I use SSD with it? |
| 09:55.11 | indomitable | I see no reason why you couldn't |
| 09:55.21 | indomitable | Apparently you already have an SSD according to FinalX, your shiny SLC stick |
| 09:55.32 | FinalX | SLC is the type of memory. "Regular" SSD's have that as well, it's just insanely expensive. Most newer disk *emulate* having a SLC cache nowadays. |
| 09:55.43 | FinalX | I'm the one with the stick, not him. |
| 09:55.59 | indomitable | Now who has the carrot?! |
| 09:55.59 | indomitable | :P |
| 09:56.20 | Terrell | I need the carrot. I'm makin soup |
| 09:56.40 | indomitable | Terrell, I have a spare carrot in my fridge I think. Also yeah SSDs work most places hard drives do. They have their upsides and downsides. |
| 09:56.48 | FinalX | indomitable: https://www.ebay.nl/itm/Biwin-Industrial-Disk-8GB-Vertical-SATA-DOM-with-power-cord-larger-qty-avail/391820412435 |
| 09:56.52 | FinalX | they're like this |
| 09:56.53 | rant | actually apparently they're charging for player now too |
| 09:57.15 | indomitable | FinalX, but that's MLC |
| 09:57.17 | Terrell | If you "think" you have a spare carrot then I can feed it ot my mushrooms |
| 09:57.20 | FinalX | and Supermicro makes motherboards and Disk-on-Modules ("stick") that are powered by the special SATA-slot as well |
| 09:57.25 | rant | which is ridiculous.. they're about as bad as microsoft with their fees |
| 09:57.25 | FinalX | indomitable: can you stop fucking trolling now? |
| 09:57.42 | indomitable | So it's ... like that, but SLC instead of MLC+ |
| 09:57.42 | Terrell | what is the form factor of the SSDs |
| 09:57.50 | indomitable | Terrell, 2.5 usually |
| 09:57.54 | indomitable | (the SATA ones) |
| 09:58.05 | indomitable | There's also the M.2 through NVMe ones FinalX talked about |
| 09:58.10 | FinalX | m.2 slots can come in SATA, NVMe and both variants, btw |
| 09:58.15 | indomitable | Can they? Huh |
| 09:58.20 | Terrell | okay. I can place a bare one in the "toaster". And use it as a back up. |
| 09:58.23 | FinalX | different "keys" as they call it. |
| 09:58.29 | FinalX | M/B |
| 09:58.31 | indomitable | You don't usually use SSDs as backups |
| 09:58.37 | rant | could you folk consider going to ##hardware, #debian-offtopic or somewhere? last actual debian question I see here was aroung 4 hours ago and you all have been offtopic ever since and that question was never answered |
| 09:59.22 | Terrell | Toaster is what they call a unit that runs USB3.0 and can interrface a 2.5 or 3.5 |
| 09:59.44 | Terrell | indomitable, what do people typically use? |
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| 10:00.07 | Terrell | rant.. I think we're done... Good point. |
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| 10:00.42 | Terrell | I have yet to install it. Just figuring out partitioning |
| 10:00.56 | pagetelegram | I asked about hard drive encrytion and all meanders after. |
| 10:01.58 | Terrell | pagetelegram, I suggested a CERT which you can generate yourself. These are used in a webserver to support the HTTPS protocol..and jsut put it on a smartcard |
| 10:02.15 | indomitable | That seems like an absolutely terrible idea for drive encryption |
| 10:02.25 | indomitable | The gold standard is 256 AES with 512 bit keys |
| 10:02.39 | Walex | indomitable: it is not terrible, a key is just a bit number, whatever the container is. |
| 10:02.39 | indomitable | (through LUKS2) |
| 10:02.48 | Terrell | I would not encrypt the whole drive. Just certain files |
| 10:02.55 | indomitable | I would definitely encrypt the whole drive |
| 10:03.13 | indomitable | It depends on needs however, and processing power |
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| 10:03.22 | Terrell | but accessing it woudl be terribly slow. |
| 10:03.33 | indomitable | Not that slow |
| 10:03.41 | FinalX | just use cryptsetup with /etc/crypttab and benchmark which encryption works best for you. usually something with AES works best since most newer CPU's have AES-NI hardware acceleration support. |
| 10:03.53 | Terrell | Maybe I would encrypt a partition. But not the OS |
| 10:04.07 | pagetelegram | I've ran on encrypted hard drives before (years ago) and not slow enough to notice for what I do. |
| 10:04.14 | pagetelegram | OH yeah good point |
| 10:04.17 | indomitable | It shouldn't be an issue since AES is optimized pagetelegram |
| 10:04.21 | indomitable | Better safe than sorry |
| 10:04.22 | FinalX | Some of those work at 2GB/s+ speeds, which would saturate even PCIe 2.0 links |
| 10:04.24 | Walex | pagetelegram: what other people have said is sort of sensible but incomplete |
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| 10:04.39 | indomitable | FinalX, Some of what work at 2GB/s speeds? |
| 10:04.43 | mutante | nobody notices any difference |
| 10:05.05 | Walex | pagetelegram: most drives today have builtin encryption, and it is transparent to the OS. You can usually activate it by setting a drive password in the BIOS. |
| 10:05.14 | indomitable | In 2019 most people run their stuff on SSDs (for systems, day to day) which is very, very fast even encrypted |
| 10:05.17 | FinalX | Encryption algorithm combinations of "standard" Linux disk encryption (cryptsetup / "LUKS") |
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| 10:05.44 | Walex | pagetelegram: alternatively at the "Debian" level you can use LUKS/'cryptsetup' as mentioned, and on a per-partition basis. |
| 10:05.44 | pagetelegram | Yeah tho lappy is easy to remove the HDD, so I'm going with the most secure recommendation. |
| 10:05.51 | Terrell | indomitable, don't the SSD's wear out? |
| 10:05.59 | indomitable | Terrell, Yes they do, but that takes a long time |
| 10:06.09 | FinalX | Disk's own enccryption is not safe enough. There have been many reports lately of disks that are not doing that properly and leak their entire content. It's only to securely wipe the SSD in the event of selling off the SSD or tossing it, the encryption key is then dropped and you can't access the data anymore. |
| 10:06.11 | indomitable | If you aren't using them for industrial applications then they tend to last years |
| 10:06.22 | indomitable | They have wear levelling of course |
| 10:06.25 | Terrell | I can still go that route. BUt I've never found a hard drive slow. |
| 10:06.31 | Walex | pagetelegram: if you encrypt partitions mnake sure '/boot' is not encrypted. |
| 10:06.33 | indomitable | You're a more patient man than I |
| 10:06.41 | mutante | they might wear out but that is much better than spinning disks that constantly move |
| 10:06.46 | indomitable | My laptop boots up in 30 seconds at most >P |
| 10:06.47 | indomitable | :P* |
| 10:06.59 | FinalX | pagetelegram: You can make a partition specifically for files you want encrypted (documents and alike), I'd really stick with LUKS/cryptsetup. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dm-crypt/Encrypting_an_entire_system#LUKS_on_a_partition |
| 10:06.59 | pagetelegram | Good point about SSD's I won't use SSD's for encrypted drives. Hard drive RPMs are not even mentioned anymore like they were for IDE, SCSII and MFM/RLE |
| 10:07.08 | indomitable | pagetelegram, you won't use SSDs for encrypted drives? |
| 10:07.09 | Terrell | I'm using a 1.6 atom on an EEEPC netbook that I picked up on Kijiji for $50 bux. |
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| 10:07.18 | indomitable | They are the best encrypted drives since once you encrypt them there's no way of recovering data off them |
| 10:07.25 | indomitable | Even unencrypted they are a pain to recover from :P |
| 10:07.35 | Walex | the great advantages of SSDs are: much faster system updates (DPKG deal with lots of small files), no prpoblems with bumps, most have very fast native AES encryption. |
| 10:07.41 | FinalX | SSDs *need* to have it, because from the OS you can never access all blocks on the disk. With spinning rust, you can. |
| 10:07.51 | pagetelegram | No, SSD's not good....they wear down with the physical gates with all them rewrites and moving sh!t around. |
| 10:08.15 | indomitable | That's a neat point FinalX |
| 10:08.24 | mutante | expect hardware to die. have backups. the end |
| 10:08.27 | pagetelegram | I need reliability and dependability so no SSD for me....SSD is only good in that is solid state. |
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| 10:08.29 | indomitable | I have yet to wear out an SSD |
| 10:08.32 | indomitable | Or a hard drive... |
| 10:08.39 | indomitable | Tremendously lucky I guess in the hardware sense :P |
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| 10:08.59 | FinalX | We have some worn out SSDs, but that's only because they weren't TRIM'd properly. |
| 10:09.12 | indomitable | Old ones probably? |
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| 10:09.20 | FinalX | And some that just broke because of hardware RAID-controller imcompatibilities. |
| 10:09.22 | FinalX | yes |
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| 10:09.36 | indomitable | Yeah I think even new SDcards have proper wear levelling now |
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| 10:10.03 | colo-work | we smoked through a number of https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/product-briefs/ssd-750-brief.pdf |
| 10:10.04 | pagetelegram | I've had horrors with SD cards....but never CF. I have about 15 SD cards that are corrupt |
| 10:10.10 | colo-work | the endurance rating on these _is_ accurate |
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| 10:10.19 | indomitable | pagetelegram, oh they'll definitely go corrupt ?:P |
| 10:10.20 | colo-work | (but the speed/priceratio is also very, very good) |
| 10:10.21 | indomitable | P* |
| 10:10.31 | indomitable | What is with my keyboard layout today, god damn it. |
| 10:10.39 | pagetelegram | *** we got stuck talking hardware lol |
| 10:11.00 | Terrell | taking a break. |
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| 10:11.28 | indomitable | So. How about ... that Debian? |
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| 10:11.45 | pagetelegram | They got divorced years ago...the name lives on. |
| 10:12.10 | indomitable | Divorced? |
| 10:12.14 | pagetelegram | Debbie |
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| 10:12.41 | rant | watches the channel redirct to topical off-topic |
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| 10:15.01 | pagetelegram | Murdocks ex-wife: Debra Lynn who inspired the name Debian |
| 10:15.44 | pagetelegram | Anyhow I would agree with Rant....off-topic is a good hangout to chat tangents and such. |
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| 10:37.36 | RoyK | any idea what to do when I try to make a package and I get this error? http://paste.debian.net/1074553/ |
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| 10:40.36 | pstk | hi here |
| 10:41.17 | indomitable | RoyK, did you read the error message? and check the obvious stuff? |
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| 10:42.41 | pstk | why jessie-backports is empty? |
| 10:42.57 | pstk | https://packages.debian.org/jessie-backports/ |
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| 10:45.14 | kapil____ | hello, i have very trouble linking .so lib in android project |
| 10:45.15 | RoyK | indomitable: obviously, I just wonder what do do with it - the git repo in question has the debian dir in it, but is missing the changelog, and I can't really understand why that is critical for building a package |
| 10:45.44 | kapil____ | is there any simple documetation available? |
| 10:46.30 | indomitable | RoyK, make the changelog file :P |
| 10:46.32 | indomitable | see what happens |
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| 10:48.11 | RoyK | indomitable: I've tried a "touch debian/changelog", but it complains about it being empty |
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| 10:48.35 | mutante | where else would it get the author and version from? |
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| 10:48.53 | RoyK | perhaps I should use checkinstall |
| 10:49.09 | mutante | or just make the changelog file |
| 10:49.10 | indomitable | RoyK, put "Fixed all the bugs" in it |
| 10:49.12 | indomitable | see if it works |
| 10:49.13 | indomitable | lol |
| 10:49.23 | mutante | "Fixed missing changelog file" obv :) |
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| 10:50.23 | indomitable | lol |
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| 11:26.48 | kyych | hello, Ive got some problems with logind. I uncommented HandleLidSwitch=suspend, and restarted service several times, even rebooted laptop. Closing lid does nothing. Laptop wont suspend. Any ideas whats wrong? |
| 11:27.11 | kyych | ofc ive got acpid on my system |
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| 11:42.04 | Terrell | Are people still having problems using initrd? |
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| 11:45.57 | Terrell | If I partition a 1TB drive like this: 256GB 256GB 128GB 128GB 2556GB how would I back it up. I am thinking {Windows 7} {Windows 10} {Debian boot1} {Debian boot2} {/home} |
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| 11:46.53 | mutante | Terrell: wouldnt backup always mean "not the same disk" anyways |
| 11:47.11 | mutante | so.. external HDD ? |
| 11:47.37 | Terrell | If I partition a 1TB drive like this: 256GB 256GB 128GB 128GB 2556GB how would I back it up. I am thinking {Windows 7} {Windows 10} {Debian boot1} {Debian boot2} {/home} The reason for the duplicated boot partitions is if I do an upgrade or ANYTHING and there is a problem I always have the old version which I can boot from. And this has happened in the past. Issue is I'll never need the space on that drive |
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| 11:48.14 | Terrell | mutante, yes. If I want to backup the while thing then for me its $70 bux and I buy a new drive. |
| 11:48.37 | mutante | Terrell: so. problem solved :) |
| 11:48.54 | Terrell | mutante, I think so. |
| 11:49.00 | mutante | cool! |
| 11:49.13 | Terrell | But if I want to just back up a partition then to what? |
| 11:49.39 | milkt | Terrell: you can make smaller root partition and backup root partition itself |
| 11:49.53 | Terrell | to what media? |
| 11:50.13 | milkt | anywhere |
| 11:50.24 | Terrell | USB stick? |
| 11:50.27 | Ede|Popede | Terrell: forget about boot2, if you upgrade simply dd your sys partition onto a BIG data partition and go on |
| 11:51.20 | mutante | Terrell: rsync to a remote server ? |
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| 11:51.34 | Terrell | Ede|Popede, okay. Makes sense. so it ends up in an ISO right? and if I can't reboot then how do I dd it back? Rescue disk? |
| 11:51.40 | Ede|Popede | Terrell: my / is just 14GB, a have a couple 32GB sticks, see the idea? ;) |
| 11:51.57 | Ede|Popede | Terrell: you have a live stick, i hope? oO |
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| 11:52.29 | Terrell | mutante, well I plan on having twin towers. But I expect I'll have M$ running on one of them because I think I'm going to need access to software that ONLY runs on a crap OS |
| 11:52.50 | Ede|Popede | /var goes extra, also /usr/local. could have been /usr, but i wanted my own stuff on its own. |
| 11:53.05 | mutante | Terrell: that must be pretty exotic software. are you doing development of Windows app? |
| 11:53.14 | Terrell | Ede|Popede, I have nothing at this time. I'm just trying to figure out how to partition these humungus drives. |
| 11:53.23 | Ede|Popede | oh and for win10, don't forget the efi partition or whatever it may need in addition |
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| 11:53.55 | mutante | Terrell: better if the backup is not even in the same power circuit / room / house /.. |
| 11:54.04 | Terrell | mutante, check Fusion (autocad). Its 3D milling. |
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| 11:54.34 | Terrell | I'll likely use FreeCAD |
| 11:54.51 | Terrell | It will be in my safty deposit box |
| 11:54.56 | Ede|Popede | Terrell: just think of potential extra drives and what kind of data needs how much space. code isn't the real problem, it's mostly videos, then maybe your music collection. unless you run a database center. |
| 11:55.20 | Terrell | I do none of the above. |
| 11:55.32 | Terrell | Let Netflix do it. I hafve better things to do. |
| 11:55.36 | Ede|Popede | so you should end up with (a) really big data partition(s) and reasonably sized / and even /home. |
| 11:55.37 | mutante | Terrell: https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=86 |
| 11:56.27 | Terrell | I never even filled an 80 GB drive and I've run my own company since 1982 |
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| 11:56.45 | mutante | Terrell: if it says "Gold" that means you can run it in Wine.. and use the Windows app under Linux and peopel said no issues |
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| 11:57.06 | Terrell | mutante, I know of wine.. but I've never used it. |
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| 11:57.36 | Terrell | I need an image editor like illustrator or photoshop. |
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| 11:57.58 | tarzeau | Terrell: try gimp, inkscape, cenon.app, scribus ? |
| 11:58.05 | Terrell | and if FreeCAD does the job then the rest is standard editors and so forth. |
| 11:58.22 | Terrell | tarzeau, I am not that far along |
| 11:58.23 | Ede|Popede | depending of ressources you also could do something Xen-like (Xen itself isn't state of the art anymore i've read, but i generally like the idea) |
| 11:59.36 | Terrell | I have a very simple label for my jars of honey and that is so far about it. Maybe a poster. But when I hire art work I end up with what professional illustrators use |
| 12:00.14 | Ede|Popede | afaik PS has features you don't find elsewhere. may be a reason to use it ;) |
| 12:00.58 | Terrell | well I may end up with fonts and features in the image that PS can handle... I think this will be the case. |
| 12:01.39 | Terrell | If I had my web servers running (they are in the shop) then I could show you... and down the track I will be able to. |
| 12:01.54 | Ingvix | any idea why does spotify still use libs in the default directory usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu even though I LD_LIBRARY_PATH points elsewhere? |
| 12:02.13 | Ingvix | -I |
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| 12:14.21 | radkos | when is debian 10 expected to be released |
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| 12:16.54 | mutante | radkos: "soon" |
| 12:17.50 | mutante | it's been frozen already |
| 12:18.37 | mutante | http://debian.2.n7.nabble.com/Bits-from-the-Release-Team-Debian-10-buster-is-frozen-let-s-get-it-in-shape-td4485190.html |
| 12:19.20 | mutante | radkos: ^ so only release-critical bugs have to be fixed |
| 12:19.23 | CrystalMath | oh wow :) |
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| 12:30.14 | rant | https://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ |
| 12:31.09 | rant | or more specifically https://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/other/testing.html |
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| 12:31.41 | rant | 320 bugs, 39 have a patch available.. when those are gone, and no new ones are filed, it will be released |
| 12:32.13 | CrystalMath | aptly: unable to delete local repositories |
| 12:32.20 | CrystalMath | what's this about local repositories??? |
| 12:32.50 | CrystalMath | i always wanted to be able to install to $HOME/.local |
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| 12:54.03 | aloo_shu | ooops, so soon the wheezy that I need to run because of the kernel on this well-working android device, will be oldoldoldstable=archived |
| 12:54.28 | colo-work | Mar 25 13:51:51 debproxy approx[996]: https://packagecloud.io/varnishcache/varnish62/debian/dists/stretch/main/binary-all/Packages: download error |
| 12:54.28 | colo-work | Mar 25 13:51:52 debproxy approx[996]: Unrecognized response: HTTP/2 302 |
| 12:54.34 | colo-work | now isn't that just effin' great?! |
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| 14:53.47 | zumba_addict | morning all. Why would debian uninstall a database that I installed from source? |
| 14:54.11 | zumba_addict | I installed mariadb 10.3 last night using this doc https://mariadb.com/kb/en/library/building-mariadb-on-debian/ |
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| 14:55.27 | indomitable | zumba_addict, are you sure it did? |
| 14:55.28 | nkuttler | zumba_addict: what do you mean by uninstall? |
| 14:55.28 | indomitable | o_o |
| 14:55.36 | zumba_addict | yes I am sure |
| 14:55.40 | nkuttler | zumba_addict: what do you mean by uninstall? |
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| 14:56.53 | zumba_addict | so I had 10.1.37 version before but I needed a new version of mariadb. I removed the 10.1 manually and followed the link I posted few minutes ago. I got it up and running and I was using it for like 3 hours. I went to sleep. Now, dpkg -l |grep maria doesn't show it anymore |
| 14:57.17 | nkuttler | zumba_addict: dpkg -l is only for debian packages |
| 14:57.43 | zumba_addict | what do you mean? |
| 14:57.55 | zumba_addict | I installed it this way `apt-get install ./mariadb-*build-deps_*.deb` |
| 14:58.19 | nkuttler | zumba_addict: those are only build deps according to the name, not a database.. |
| 14:58.29 | zumba_addict | k |
| 14:58.57 | zumba_addict | so I was still using 10.1 last night? |
| 14:59.15 | nkuttler | according to the doc you linked to, yes... you didn't perform all steps.. |
| 14:59.26 | zumba_addict | it's weird I don't have a systemd scripts anymore in /lib/systemd/system |
| 14:59.31 | nkuttler | ,v mysql-server |
| 14:59.32 | judd | Package: mysql-server on amd64 -- wheezy: 5.5.47-0+deb7u1; wheezy-security: 5.5.60-0+deb7u1; jessie: 5.5.60-0+deb8u1; stretch: 5.5.9999+default; sid: 5.7.24-3 |
| 14:59.44 | nkuttler | ,v mariadb-server |
| 14:59.45 | judd | Package: mariadb-server on amd64 -- jessie: 10.0.25-0+deb8u1; jessie: 10.0.30-0+deb8u2; jessie: 10.0.32-0+deb8u1; stretch: 10.1.26-0+deb9u1; stretch-security: 10.1.26-0+deb9u1; stretch-security: 10.1.37-0+deb9u1; sid: 1:10.3.12-2; buster: 1:10.3.13-1 |
| 15:00.10 | zumba_addict | k |
| 15:00.24 | zumba_addict | i'll check it later. I need to attend a meeting. Thank you |
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| 15:05.04 | tomreyn | zumba_addict: btw. mariadb provide (both minor and micro) versioned apt repositories. |
| 15:05.58 | zumba_addict | i was told last night there is no 10.2 for Stretch. I decided to install 10.3 from source |
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| 15:07.35 | tomreyn | https://mariadb.com/kb/en/library/mariadb-package-repository-setup-and-usage/ |
| 15:07.53 | zumba_addict | thanks |
| 15:08.03 | tomreyn | there are 10.3 packages for stretch according to https://downloads.mariadb.com/MariaDB/mariadb-10.3/repo/debian/dists/stretch/main/binary-amd64/Packages |
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| 15:16.18 | zumba_addict | how do I install that 10.3 tomreyn? |
| 15:16.21 | naicen | #join linux-zh |
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| 15:16.48 | zumba_addict | oh, mariadb-server-10.3 - MariaDB database server binaries with apt-cache search |
| 15:18.14 | zumba_addict | does dpkg -l show installed packages in our system? |
| 15:18.26 | zumba_addict | i ran apt-get remove but it still shows it |
| 15:18.31 | greycat | And a few things besides, but yes. It's mostly the installed packages. |
| 15:19.03 | zumba_addict | maybe my removal command was wrong |
| 15:19.08 | zumba_addict | apt-get remove mariadb-server-10.1 |
| 15:19.52 | zumba_addict | https://www.howtoinstall.co/en/debian/stretch/mariadb-server?action=remove |
| 15:20.00 | zumba_addict | ah |
| 15:20.15 | zumba_addict | Package 'mariadb-server' is not installed, so not removed |
| 15:20.38 | zumba_addict | but dpkg -l|grep maria, I see this `rc mariadb-server-10.1 10.1.37-0+deb9u1 amd64 MariaDB database server binaries` |
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| 15:21.02 | greycat | Read the headers. "r" means removed, "c" means config files left. |
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| 15:21.25 | greycat | Purge the package to get rid of the config files, if you never intend to re-install it. |
| 15:23.39 | jelly | ,v mariadb-server-10.3 |
| 15:23.40 | judd | Package: mariadb-server-10.3 on amd64 -- sid: 1:10.3.12-2; buster: 1:10.3.13-1 |
| 15:24.32 | jelly | oh you used upstream's own builds |
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| 15:28.10 | tobiasBora | Hello, |
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| 15:29.10 | tobiasBora | I'd like to know, except for the file /etc/fstab, where can be written the usb mount policies? Because in my univ, some users have there usb mounted as read only and I don't know how to make sure if it's a sysadmin choice or not without mailing them |
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| 15:37.02 | hodapp | any reason why https://packages.debian.org/jessie-backports/ is now listing no packages? I was looking for news that might pertain to this but couldn't find anything |
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| 15:53.38 | zumba_addict | my mariadb is up and running |
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| 15:59.17 | _anb | Hi there, I cannot find the changelog to debian repo, e.g. when a package get removed from the repo, or package version changed, etc. May I get some clues? |
| 16:01.15 | nkuttler | _anb: https://tracker.debian.org/ |
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| 16:05.02 | _anb | nkuttler: great, that's what I need. Thank you. Do you know the thing for backports? |
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| 16:08.35 | hodapp | ah, yes, speaking of backports I'm still looking around for why jessie-backports is now empty |
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| 16:09.49 | hodapp | hm, https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/libjsoncpp lists the version in old-bpo that I was using (libjsoncpp1=1.7.2-1~bpo8+1) but the link is dead |
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| 16:12.16 | _anb | yeah, my deploy broke because libuv1 is missing from jessie-backports. |
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| 16:17.55 | jelly | ,v libuv1 |
| 16:17.57 | judd | Package: libuv1 on amd64 -- jessie-backports: 1.9.0-1~bpo8+1; stretch: 1.9.1-3; stretch-backports: 1.18.0-3~bpo9+1; buster: 1.24.1-1; sid: 1.24.1-1 |
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| 16:18.51 | jelly | [17:18] ~ # apt-get download libuv1 |
| 16:18.51 | jelly | Get:1 http://debian.iskon.hr/debian/ jessie-backports/main libuv1 amd64 1.9.0-1~bpo8+1 [83.6 kB] |
| 16:18.51 | jelly | Fetched 83.6 kB in 0s (2294 kB/s) |
| 16:18.54 | jelly | wfm! |
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| 16:19.02 | Murgoth | Good afternoon, I'm having trouble making an additional IP on my network card. Can someone send me an exemplod (debian stretch) |
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| 16:19.50 | jelly | Murgoth: how is your network configured? /etc/network/interfaces or something else? |
| 16:19.54 | Murgoth | I got it !! |
| 16:20.15 | Murgoth | jelly Thank you, it worked! |
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| 16:20.28 | jelly | yay |
| 16:20.31 | jelly | !win Murgoth |
| 16:20.32 | dpkg | Congratulations, Murgoth! You have won second prize in a beauty contest! |
| 16:21.05 | Murgoth | *-* |
| 16:21.10 | Murgoth | *.* |
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| 16:23.47 | Terrell | Murgoth, Awake. Up and at it. Lasat time I did this stuff was 1998 |
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| 16:25.04 | Terrell | Murgoth, why do I feel like Rip Van Wrinkle? I stopped systems work for 20 years and did some law instead. Law is easier. |
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| 17:01.05 | hodapp | _anb: you're on jessie-backports too? |
| 17:02.21 | greycat | One is not "on" *-backports. One is on jessie, or stretch, and may have installed a few backports. |
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| 17:03.27 | hodapp | in so far as "on" is a very open-ended term, that seems sort of a needless correction |
| 17:04.05 | hodapp | _anb: asking because my deploy broke as well due to libjsoncpp1=1.7.2-1~bpo8+1 in jessie-backports |
| 17:04.10 | greycat | It's quite needful. There is a substantial difference in how stretch-backports works vs. how stretch works. |
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| 17:04.39 | greycat | Backported packages have to be selected individually. You do not just get all of them. |
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| 17:07.10 | hodapp | what you're saying is true, but not really relevant, considering the inherent vagueness of "on". I didn't ask if jessie-backports is literally the distribution installed. |
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| 17:38.17 | KOLANICH | Hi everyone. How to make multiple packages with debian/rules? |
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| 17:39.18 | greycat | !nmg |
| 17:39.18 | dpkg | The packaging tutorial (http://deb.li/QYyI) and the New Maintainer's Guide (http://deb.li/3DiDA) are good places to start learning about Debian packaging. You should also ask me about <devref> and <policy> to understand how packages should be maintained and how they should interact with each other. Ask me about <package basics>, <mentors>, <best practices> <build without helper>. http://www.debian.org/devel/ |
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| 17:39.30 | _anb | hodapp: yep, I'm using jessie-backports |
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| 17:40.03 | hodapp | _anb: and I take it you too have no clue why https://packages.debian.org/jessie-backports/ is now empty? |
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| 17:45.27 | r4co0n | KOLANICH, greycat gave you the links to documents that imnsho carry the essence of Debian packaging, a must read and I found large parts really interesting. As to your specific question: You want to look at debian/control, see for example https://salsa.debian.org/apache-team/apache2/blob/master/debian/control |
| 17:49.36 | r4co0n | hodapp, I suppose the mirrors for jessie-backports were taken offline as it is EOL for a long time. You only have so much space on your mirrors... |
| 17:50.16 | KOLANICH | r4co0n: thank you. So I cannot use dh $@, do I? |
| 17:50.57 | hodapp | r4co0n: and that's fine by me, but I'm just trying to get some kind of confirmation that this is the case and not a transient thing |
| 17:51.38 | KOLANICH | *can I |
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| 18:01.47 | hodapp | _anb: okay, here is the actual announcement on that: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2019/03/msg00006.html |
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| 18:04.13 | eogan3 | hello |
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| 18:07.29 | Sqwonk | time is a fickle |
| 18:07.38 | Sqwonk | assymetry |
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| 18:09.50 | albertvaka | Hi guys, I wanted to use the wheezy docker image to reproduce a problem from a customer and found a problem |
| 18:10.06 | albertvaka | The installed versions of the packets there, are newer than the ones from archive.debian.org |
| 18:10.26 | albertvaka | So it's impossible to use apt-get for anything |
| 18:11.06 | albertvaka | The following packages have unmet dependencies: libc6-dev : Depends: libc6 (= 2.13-38+deb7u10) but 2.13-38+deb7u12 is to be installed |
| 18:11.22 | albertvaka | that's from a freshly pulled docker debian:wheezy image |
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| 18:11.53 | greycat | You'll have to work out what the sources.list lines should be to fetch the packages from archive instead of the mirrors. |
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| 18:14.49 | eogan3 | I am new to debian, I want to install testing and KDE to enjoy compiz effect. I have few bandwidth so I downloaded net install and I would like to know if I can donwload KDE packages and add them to my usb stick ? |
| 18:15.16 | tobiasBora | Hello, |
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| 18:15.27 | tobiasBora | I'm trying to simulate programmatically a graphic tablet. |
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| 18:15.40 | tobiasBora | So I wrote the following code: |
| 18:15.42 | tobiasBora | http://paste.debian.net/1074617 |
| 18:15.46 | tobiasBora | However there are two problems: |
| 18:15.52 | tobiasBora | 1) xinput does not detect the pressure |
| 18:16.06 | tobiasBora | (with "xinput test") |
| 18:16.43 | tobiasBora | 2) "xinput test" has a slow rate (like 1 update/sec), while my code outputs 10 values/sec |
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| 18:23.59 | unborn | hi tobiasBora regards 1) (in case you are using modern touch displays and not those obsolete ones) i think modern touch screens does not use pressure on input any more, its about gestures and how many taps on selected item or perhaps how many seconds sensors feels passing in.. regards 2) perhaps your hardware is not capable to process it.. - I don't know your hardware specs but that could be a problem.. I would have look at the hardware side if it |
| 18:23.59 | unborn | meets your specs? |
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| 18:26.24 | tobiasBora | unborn: I want to simulate graphic tablets, so no really gestures here right? And I tried to cat a /dev/input/eventX file corresponding to my graphic tablet (that is not really recognized as expected), and the pressure is reported, with the position in X and Y coordinate |
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| 18:27.31 | tobiasBora | unborn: for 2), my hardware is good enough to proceed much better than that, it's an intel i7... And the python part print things at the good rate, the problem is on the other side, to interpret these data |
| 18:27.32 | unborn | tobiasBora: how do you simulate that tablets? ...in name of the simulator if I can ask. |
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| 18:29.11 | _anb | hodapp: thanks, that helps. :) |
| 18:29.21 | tobiasBora | unborn: Well my tablet is not detected by softwares like gimp etc... So my goal is to manually create a virtual program that reads the input from /etc/input/eventX, and then output it to the virtual device. But as a first step, I just want to check with a simple/fixed trajectory, like the one in the python script above. |
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| 18:30.02 | unborn | *those tablets.. Im on i7 too.. just asking, btw from dev. point I would not take pressure points in unless its for those old cnc robots panels in industry. |
| 18:30.31 | unborn | aha (my moment) - I see. |
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| 18:34.30 | unborn | tobiasBora: Im still on jessie btw for python scripts there is huge base here on debian channel however better you would be asking for code review at #python channel, I learned loads of stuff from them there. Anyway whats the tablet hardware then? |
| 18:34.54 | tobiasBora | unborn: I'm affraid the problem is not python. If you want I can do the same on C. |
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| 18:35.17 | tobiasBora | I think I misunderstand something how xinput handles the inputs/outputs |
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| 18:36.03 | tobiasBora | unborn: and the tablet hardware is VEIKK A30. But in the script, I don't need any hardware to run it. |
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| 18:38.27 | Tenkawa | does it seem odd to anyone that my usb 3 thumbdrive root host is actually faster than the emmc on this notebook? |
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| 18:38.55 | unborn | tobiasBora: thanks. let me look into that. |
| 18:39.19 | Tenkawa | (according to hdparm tests) |
| 18:39.44 | tobiasBora | unborn: ok thanks. I'll be away during some time, but I stay online and will read everything when I'm back. |
| 18:39.51 | unborn | tobiasBora: I now see the purpose, all I would say in my opinion bamboo does better job. give me sec.. I will check out drivers and see if I can run it virtually on my system too. |
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| 18:41.18 | unborn | (bamboo = wacom company) |
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| 18:42.30 | tobiasBora | unborn: maybe, but it does not say why the bare python script that sends messages to uinput does not work^^ |
| 18:43.35 | unborn | tobiasBora: hardware - drivers... I still need some time.. |
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| 18:47.33 | unborn | tobiasBora: is the pressure detected in my paint program? |
| 18:47.41 | unborn | on your current distro |
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| 19:07.04 | jhutchins_wk | Tenkawa: That's not unreasonable. emmc is not real high performance. |
| 19:07.50 | Tenkawa | but should it be slower than a offboard usb stick ? |
| 19:08.13 | Tenkawa | (granted I'm not complaining.. just surprised) |
| 19:08.45 | Tenkawa | the emmc is just currently housing my windows 10 install on the machine anyway |
| 19:09.24 | Tenkawa | makes dual booting a lot easier |
| 19:09.25 | BCMM | Tenkawa: USB 3 is, potentially, really fast |
| 19:09.32 | Tenkawa | BCMM: indeed |
| 19:09.42 | BCMM | and i'm sure there are cheap emmc modules available that aren't particularly quick |
| 19:09.49 | Tenkawa | my powerhouse machine it screams on |
| 19:10.20 | BCMM | basically both interfaces are quick enough that they're probably not actually the bottlenecks |
| 19:10.24 | Tenkawa | my gaming box has one of the newes usb 3.x chips and omg its fast |
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| 19:30.52 | rocketmagnet | hello everyone, what package do i need to install for openGL programming ? |
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| 19:38.13 | jhutchins_wk | Does anybody have any knowledge of a change to systemd that causes it to fail to mount NFS(cifs) shares from fstab at boot? They mount just fine with mount -a after boot. I have seen several reports of this with recent updates to Debian and Ubuntu, but all of the work-arounds are pretty kludgy. |
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| 19:40.47 | klys | rocketmagnet http://show.ing.me/paste/gldebs01.txt |
| 19:41.23 | indomitable | wat |
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| 19:41.42 | indomitable | jhutchins_wk, what specifically is the fstab line for this? |
| 19:41.51 | indomitable | the goal is to have the nfs retry when it fails |
| 19:42.01 | indomitable | since it's obviously going to fail before you get wifi or ethernet up properly |
| 19:42.07 | indomitable | or any other of ten billion reasons |
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| 19:46.47 | klys | jhutchins_wk, fsstab option comment=systemd.automount might help |
| 19:46.59 | jhutchins_wk | _netdev is supposed to postpone the mounts until networking is up. |
| 19:47.03 | klys | that's for systemd. if using sysvinit-core it's auto |
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| 19:47.22 | jhutchins_wk | I boot so seldom that this could actually be an older problem. |
| 19:47.58 | jhutchins_wk | klys: Yeah, systemd. Is that requirement documented anywhere? (That was one of the "solutions" I found yesterday.) |
| 19:48.51 | klys | I saw it at https://ispltd.org/mini_howto:nfs_systemd and it's probably documented in the systemd docs, I haven't seen them though |
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| 19:52.11 | indomitable | jhutchins_wk, my nfs doesn't complain at all with my mount settings |
| 19:52.16 | indomitable | but it's on raspbian stretch lite |
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| 19:53.24 | indomitable | whateverip:/share /var/lib/minidlna/mountpoint nfs nofail 0 0 |
| 19:53.37 | indomitable | (I obviously use mine for media :P) |
| 19:53.39 | klys | and judging that this is the toc for systemd's "documentation", it's a wonder anybody knows how to use it: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/ |
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| 19:53.52 | indomitable | systemd is fine |
| 19:53.56 | indomitable | the clue is to only use it when you have to |
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| 19:54.08 | indomitable | not like its precursors and competitors are any better |
| 19:54.22 | indomitable | yes it does more stuff than it's supposed to, no it isn't a huge problem |
| 19:54.35 | jhutchins_wk | klys: Amen to that. |
| 19:55.10 | jhutchins_wk | The problem is when they sneak changes in like going from making it optional to making it fail. |
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| 19:56.29 | jhutchins_wk | What's the difference between systemd and x-systemd? |
| 19:57.01 | indomitable | I don't know what x-systemd is |
| 19:57.11 | jhutchins_wk | Probably an ubuntu thing. |
| 19:57.47 | indomitable | I don't use GUIs on linux much |
| 19:57.53 | indomitable | so when X comes up I just go "wat" |
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| 20:04.31 | rocketmagnet | how to install the dot tools ?? |
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| 20:04.52 | jhutchins_wk | rocketmagnet: What dot tools? |
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| 20:05.06 | rocketmagnet | for doxygen to be able to create diagrams |
| 20:05.26 | Voldenet | rocketmagnet: apt-get install graphviz |
| 20:06.31 | rocketmagnet | and which package is used for opengl programming ? |
| 20:06.45 | rocketmagnet | lib-mesa-?? |
| 20:07.06 | anticw | is there a way to get a machine readable (json/xml/whatever) list of bugs in a given release? i'm looking to get a list of which packages have open issues in buster (to see what remains to be done to preemptibvely upgrade some test systems) |
| 20:07.21 | jhutchins_wk | rocketmagnet: I'd start with the doxygen-docs package. |
| 20:07.24 | klys | rocketmagnet, you will likely need all of those, at least. |
| 20:07.55 | jhutchins_wk | !doxygen |
| 20:07.56 | dpkg | doxygen is probably http://www.stack.nl/~dimitri/doxygen, a manual making tool |
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| 20:15.32 | klys | rocketmagnet, the allegro5 package uses libgl* to draw, and the primitives are listed here: https://liballeg.org/a5docs/trunk/primitives.html |
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| 20:17.00 | rocketmagnet | i need a general package for only libGL.so |
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| 20:18.05 | klys | rocketmagnet, then libgl1 is your package. |
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| 20:20.31 | jhutchins_wk | rocketmagnet: AFTER the docs package. |
| 20:20.42 | badcoder | btw should I install nvidia drivers or keep with neauveu? |
| 20:20.59 | klys | badcoder, that depends on what works with your card. |
| 20:21.32 | badcoder | neauveu apparently works, but I own an NVIDIA Geforce GTX 980M |
| 20:21.36 | badcoder | (ASUS ROG) |
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| 20:30.29 | tonka123 | hello, did something happen to the wheezy repos? maybe i missed an announcement but im getting a 404 on http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/dists/wheezy/main/binary-amd64/Package, http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/dists/wheezy-updates/main/binary-amd64/Packages, and http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/dists/wheezy-backports/main/binary-amd64/Packages |
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| 20:31.18 | jhutchins_wk | !wheezy |
| 20:31.18 | dpkg | Wheezy is the current <oldoldstable> release, Debian 7, released on 2013-05-04: https://www.debian.org/News/2013/20130504 ; security support ended on 2016-04-25. Wheezy is the rubber toy penguin with a red bow tie. See https://wiki.debian.org/DebianWheezy and ask me about <install wheezy> <wheezy release notes> <wheezy->jessie>. Final update <7.11>. Consider upgrading. |
| 20:32.03 | tonka123 | yes, i've read the docs and im failing to find a notification that the repos would be removed within the past few days. they were working on Friday |
| 20:32.05 | greycat | Gods almighty, do we have to put this in the TOPIC? Every freaking hour someone asks. |
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| 20:32.28 | greycat | 14:01 hodapp> _anb: okay, here is the actual announcement on that: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2019/03/msg00006.html |
| 20:32.31 | indomitable | lol. |
| 20:32.35 | indomitable | isn't wheezy 2 versions ago |
| 20:32.38 | greycat | YES |
| 20:32.49 | indomitable | I feel like you should be aware of at least 1 version |
| 20:32.50 | greycat | It fell out of LTS support a year or two ago. |
| 20:33.12 | indomitable | greycat, here's the fun part, I don't even use debian for anything but a raspberry pi, and I know that |
| 20:33.12 | indomitable | :D |
| 20:33.19 | tonka123 | yes im aware it fell out of LTS, and im aware of how old it is :) |
| 20:33.30 | indomitable | tonka123, ok. cool. |
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| 20:33.37 | jhutchins_wk | tonka123: archives is a good place to look in circumstances like that. |
| 20:33.58 | tonka123 | unfortunately some legacy code requires i still run 1 wheezy machine. thanks everyone i will look in the archive repos :) |
| 20:34.13 | Ede|Popede | it could be on the homepage and instead of 404 there could be a 30x to a page saying what's going on. problem solved. and iirc there's even a HTTP status for "gone" |
| 20:34.38 | tonka123 | yes that would be awesome Ede|Popede |
| 20:35.39 | Ede|Popede | what happened to the idea of URLs following the ressource? |
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| 20:39.26 | jhutchins_wk | You mean so you end up with 257 redirects? |
| 20:39.32 | indomitable | Yes. |
| 20:40.22 | indomitable | Ede|Popede, you've been on freenode 10 years, why don't you have a cloak |
| 20:41.45 | jhutchins_wk | Some people don't see the usefulness of a cloak. |
| 20:42.10 | jhutchins_wk | It's like complaining that your phone number is listed on-line when it's printed, along with your address, in the phone book. |
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| 20:44.31 | Ede|Popede | jhutchins_wk: mine isn't, and guess what. no cold calls (would be illegal anyway). not even automated ;) |
| 20:44.32 | badcoder | hello |
| 20:44.39 | indomitable | jhutchins_wk, my phone number isn't |
| 20:44.40 | badcoder | I am trying to install my drivers for nvidia |
| 20:44.42 | indomitable | lol |
| 20:44.42 | badcoder | https://0bin.net/paste/p2k81T92JwUP29io#tFektWKu7OM1sYFbbGxfhCP9d81SfHuO6msQ83bBlh4 |
| 20:44.51 | badcoder | I have followed: https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers#Version_390.48_.28via_stretch-backports.29 |
| 20:45.00 | badcoder | Debian 9 "Stretch" |
| 20:45.03 | badcoder | Version 390.48 (via stretch-backports) |
| 20:45.13 | badcoder | step 3. |
| 20:45.21 | badcoder | so, what is going on? |
| 20:46.41 | jhutchins_wk | Yeah, well, I've been around since you had to pay extra to be unlisted. Yes, I'm aware that most cell phones aren't, but it's the principle of the thing. |
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| 20:47.28 | badcoder | can I get any pointers |
| 20:47.32 | jhutchins_wk | My contact info is not blocked on my DNS records, because I think it provides a useful indicator of who's responsible for a domain. |
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| 20:47.49 | jhutchins_wk | !nvidia |
| 20:47.49 | dpkg | Where possible, Nvidia graphic processing units are supported using the open source <nouveau> driver on Debian systems by default. To install the proprietary "nvidia" driver, see https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers or ask me about <nvidia dkms>, <nvidia legacy>; installing this directly from nvidia.com (i.e. with <nvidia-installer>) is _not_ supported in #debian, please go to #nvidia on irc.freenode.net. |
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| 20:48.44 | Ede|Popede | uh. iirc it was just a box i had to check. but then there's the imprint on the website. you don't need one if it is purely private, but you can't really make one. lawyers still need some work to pay their rent :P |
| 20:49.18 | badcoder | jhutchins_wk: I have FOLLOWED the official installation link from the debian website |
| 20:49.27 | badcoder | I even told you on which step I am stuck |
| 20:49.42 | madspn | badcoder, try cleaning out your local apt cache |
| 20:50.01 | madspn | or repository cache - not sure what to call it :/ |
| 20:50.14 | badcoder | madspn: how do I do that? |
| 20:50.38 | madspn | badcoder, apt-get clean |
| 20:51.28 | badcoder | https://0bin.net/paste/s6njF49oH2pN0xGy#duTQYeU+1rvRyBgxxfPt81qaKtDpD-6KTMUXvYCi7GV |
| 20:52.15 | madspn | badcoder, did you enable non-free the repository? |
| 20:52.46 | badcoder | https://0bin.net/paste/ou1IlYdBElYsuu2V#eiwwX4NQUhCYgz7Ug9bB72kT3J9qKicx8bjugzHj5py |
| 20:54.02 | badcoder | so, shouldn't it be fine? |
| 20:54.34 | badcoder | madskillz? |
| 20:54.40 | BCMM | badcoder: (continuing discussion from ##linux) you can use this page to look up which package provides the missing firmware files. you'll probably need to enable non-free in sources.list too https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware |
| 20:55.32 | BCMM | you want to install firmware-iwlwifi to get your wireless working. |
| 20:56.00 | madspn | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:56.36 | towo` | madspn, doesn't matter at this point |
| 20:57.00 | badcoder | BCMM: how do I change sources.list to non free? |
| 20:57.07 | towo` | badcoder, you want to add contrib and nonfree to the deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stretch main line |
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| 20:57.34 | BCMM | badcoder: what towo` said. also https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList#Example_sources.list |
| 20:57.48 | towo` | badcoder, and have you done apt update after adding backports to your sources? |
| 20:57.52 | jhutchins_wk | badcoder: Restore your backup and try again. |
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| 20:58.09 | madspn | ha! badcoder, check out the url for non-free |
| 20:58.26 | madspn | badcoder, deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian stretch-backports main contrib non-free |
| 20:58.38 | BCMM | badcoder: you also probably want firmware-realtek to get full use of your wired ethernet. it think it might work without, but only at 100Mb/s or something like that (from vague memory) |
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| 20:59.21 | madspn | badcoder, oh never mind - did not know of the httpredir url |
| 20:59.41 | badcoder | why do ppl sing all the time in musicals |
| 20:59.51 | badcoder | jesus f*cking christ, thats annoying |
| 20:59.59 | greycat | *plonk* |
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| 21:00.15 | SerajewelKS | #lost-ircers |
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| 21:00.37 | badcoder | BCMM: gonna reboot |
| 21:00.42 | badcoder | check if the wireless thing worked |
| 21:00.54 | badcoder | badcoder@CORSAIR:~$ sudo apt-get install firmware-iwlwifi |
| 21:00.57 | badcoder | totally did this |
| 21:01.07 | badcoder | ;) |
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| 21:05.12 | badcoder | yaw gawgz |
| 21:05.19 | badcoder | wireless totally working, ty BCMM |
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| 21:05.54 | badcoder | dawgz* |
| 21:06.00 | badcoder | ...dawgz? |
| 21:06.05 | badcoder | u chillin'? |
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| 21:36.03 | SerajewelKS | why is wine a dependency of playonlinux? playonlinux maintains its own installs of wine and doesn't even see the system-provided wine. |
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| 21:37.55 | SerajewelKS | or i guess it can use the system-provided wine but it's not clear in the UI. at any rate, the system-provided wine is not actually required, so it would make more sense as a suggests. |
| 21:38.15 | Ede|Popede | SerajewelKS: suggestion, not dependency |
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| 21:38.28 | jhutchins | Of course, when I rebooted to test where the cifs shares were failing to mount, they mounted. |
| 21:38.52 | Ede|Popede | ah nvm, the other way round |
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| 21:39.09 | SerajewelKS | right. i'm saying that having at a depends is wrong, it should be a suggests. |
| 21:39.17 | SerajewelKS | but i'm wondering if there's some reason it is currently a depends, that i don't know of |
| 21:39.54 | Ede|Popede | wine suggests playonlinux, playonlinux is virtual and atm i have no clue what i'd need to find it :) |
| 21:40.48 | indomitable | playing games on linux is like having sex with a tree -- it might be pleasurable, but it's no substitute for the real thing |
| 21:41.16 | OerHeks | POL is just a bunch of script to use wine properly |
| 21:41.25 | SerajewelKS | Ede|Popede: playonlinux is not virtual. but it's in contrib, not main. |
| 21:41.28 | SerajewelKS | ,v playonlinux |
| 21:41.29 | judd | Package: playonlinux on amd64 -- wheezy/contrib: 4.1.1-1; jessie/contrib: 4.2.5-1; stretch/contrib: 4.2.10-2; buster/contrib: 4.3.4-1; sid/contrib: 4.3.4-1 |
| 21:41.30 | OerHeks | conveniant, it is |
| 21:42.04 | Ede|Popede | ah, i only have main |
| 21:42.20 | SerajewelKS | playonlinux has a hard dep on wine which i'm saying is not correct, since playonlinux has a wine version manager where it can download wine tarballs and manage them in a local per-user install. so the wine package is not required to use it. |
| 21:42.34 | SerajewelKS | however, it _can_ use the system-provided wine so it would make sense as a suggests/recommends |
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| 21:59.18 | gvth | is there a graphical tool to configure a VNC server? |
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| 22:17.36 | tobiasBora | unborn: nothing is detected in krita and gimp |
| 22:18.22 | tobiasBora | By the way, does anyone knows why this script does not simulate a press on key "A"? http://paste.debian.net/1074668 |
| 22:19.38 | tobiasBora | ohhh |
| 22:19.46 | tobiasBora | sending libevdev.InputEvent(libevdev.EV_SYN.SYN_REPORT, 0) seems to be important! |
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| 22:22.31 | tobiasBora | I don't understand... |
| 22:22.43 | tobiasBora | When I do libevdev.InputEvent(libevdev.EV_KEY.KEY_A, 0) |
| 22:22.49 | tobiasBora | it displays an A. |
| 22:22.59 | tobiasBora | (well a Q because I'm on azerty) |
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| 22:23.19 | tobiasBora | but if I write libevdev.InputEvent(libevdev.EV_KEY.KEY_Z, 0)... it fails |
| 22:23.31 | tobiasBora | why does it succeed with A, but not with Z??? |
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| 22:25.59 | Ede|Popede | tobiasBora: did you replace KEY_A *everywhere*? you also could look into the libs used for the values of those constants |
| 22:26.06 | tobiasBora | Ede|Popede: yes |
| 22:26.12 | tobiasBora | Ede|Popede: I tried also with KP1 |
| 22:26.30 | tobiasBora | Ede|Popede: ex: http://paste.debian.net/1074670 |
| 22:26.36 | KOLANICH | it's me again. Can anyoje explain why python3 is not managed via update-alternatives? |
| 22:26.53 | KOLANICH | *anyone |
| 22:27.21 | petn-randall | KOLANICH: What would the other alternatives be? |
| 22:27.56 | Ede|Popede | tobiasBora: line 9. you should use global search&replace ;) |
| 22:28.01 | KOLANICH | petn-randall: python3.6, python3.6 pypy3.6, graalpython at least |
| 22:28.11 | tobiasBora | Ede|Popede: grrr sooo stupid |
| 22:28.16 | tobiasBora | thanks |
| 22:28.26 | KOLANICH | *python3.7 |
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| 22:29.56 | KOLANICH | on my systems I personally replace the symlink to point to python3.7 and do some other manipulations to make them share packages. |
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| 22:40.52 | mikeliss | Are there any tricks for resetting networking automatically if a change takes down your network? Trying to configure a server and I'd love to avoid sitting in the server room with it. Last week I made a change that didn't work and I had to drive across town to sit with the server and fix the change. There must be a way to do this such that my mistakes get reverted? |
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| 22:41.36 | mawk | what do you mean by resetting mikeliss ? |
| 22:41.43 | mawk | you have ways of watching what happens to the network yes |
| 22:41.50 | mawk | but that depends on what you mean by happenning |
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| 22:42.00 | mikeliss | Well, like, if I misconfigure the network, I'm toast b/c I'm doing configs via SSH. |
| 22:42.11 | mawk | it could be losing connectivity in an extern manner, it could be losing address or gateway, it could be a bad configuration for something unrelated to your network configuration |
| 22:42.15 | mikeliss | I want the network to revert to the working settings. |
| 22:42.25 | mawk | you mean the IP addresses and everything ? |
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| 22:42.34 | somiaj | A lot depends on your network, usually automatic configuration means 'dhcp', and if you use network manager, it will try to bring the network back up if it goes down. |
| 22:42.34 | mikeliss | (Or I need a way to ensure my settings will work before I apply them.) |
| 22:42.43 | mawk | I don't know of any software that does that, principally because you don't change network settings that often |
| 22:42.46 | mikeliss | I'm trying to bonded, bridged static IP. |
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| 22:42.52 | mawk | and that once you become a bit experienced you know in advance if it will work or not |
| 22:42.59 | mawk | but anyway it wouldn't be incredibly hard to od |
| 22:43.03 | mawk | even a bash script might do it |
| 22:43.36 | mikeliss | Maybe it's not the right thing to do. I feel like I"m struggling with this more than I ought to be. |
| 22:43.39 | somiaj | If you are configuring a static ip, and misconfigure it, not much one can do without physical access. You could also set up some serial access (or alternative access) to the machine that isn't the main network as a way to work on the machine even if the network is misconfigured. |
| 22:43.42 | mawk | for ensuring your settings will work yeah it's a common thing, UBNT routers have that mechanism |
| 22:43.57 | mawk | you have a command to test the new network config, if you don't confirm after 10 minutes it rollbacks the previous one |
| 22:43.58 | mikeliss | My reboots take a while and I feel blind as to whether a change will work or not until after it's in place. |
| 22:44.12 | mawk | reboot on linux are pretty uncommon, you shouldn't reboot to test your config |
| 22:44.15 | mawk | unless you test the boot |
| 22:44.36 | mikeliss | I felt like rebooting was a mistake, but it's what the guides say. |
| 22:44.45 | mikeliss | I'd *love* to not reboot. |
| 22:44.46 | mawk | somiaj: he means try the static ip, if after X minutes no confirmation bring back the last one |
| 22:45.10 | mawk | you could script this I guess, but to script it you would have to master the whole thing, and once you master the whole thing the need for such a script vanishes a bit |
| 22:45.29 | somiaj | yea, you could have a cron job or something revert for you. |
| 22:45.29 | mikeliss | Yeah. Kinda feels like the wrong approach really. |
| 22:45.40 | mawk | if you're using /etc/network/interfaces I guess you could make a program that lets you edit a copy of the file, then try the copy, wait for confirmation, if not confirmed restore the old one |
| 22:45.52 | mikeliss | But I'm hating life doing these reboots and I don't enjoy going to the server room. |
| 22:46.10 | somiaj | so setup a cron job that reverts the network to a working state. Give it a time limit, you know that at least this will go off and get you back. If it works, you just need to manually stop the cron job |
| 22:46.22 | mikeliss | I am using /etc/network/interfaces, yes. Is that supposed to not need a reboot? |
| 22:46.31 | mawk | yeah, or use the at command for a one-off "cron" |
| 22:46.33 | somiaj | you shouldn't hvae to reboot to test the network settings. Just use ifup/ifdown |
| 22:46.45 | mawk | it doesn't need a reboot no mikeliss , but this format doesn't tolerate errors very well |
| 22:47.05 | somiaj | problem is you may need to script it, so ifdown interface && ifup interface (because you will loose connection on the ifdown), then have a cron job revert if needed. |
| 22:47.15 | mikeliss | "This format" meaning the interfaces file format? |
| 22:47.50 | mawk | just to be sure I'd do ifup -v $IFACE; sleep 600; ifdown --force $IFACE; ip link set $IFACE down; ip addr flush dev $IFACE; ip route flush dev $IFACE; cp old_config /etc/network/interfaces; ifup $IFACE |
| 22:47.52 | somiaj | I almost think setting up a serial connection (or alternative back end network) would be easier, then this will always be connected as you configure the front facing network. Once it is up, you can bring down the server room only network. |
| 22:48.03 | mikeliss | somiaj: Right. Can't just bring it down without a plan for bringing it back up. |
| 22:48.07 | mawk | all of this inside nohup so that losing ssh won't kill the script |
| 22:48.12 | mawk | should work |
| 22:48.18 | somiaj | or do it inside a screen or tmux |
| 22:48.20 | mawk | yeah |
| 22:48.33 | mawk | you need all the extra fuss because ifupdown doesn't tolerate errors very well |
| 22:48.35 | mikeliss | screen is a good idea. |
| 22:48.40 | mawk | in case of errors it leaves the thing in an inconsistent state |
| 22:48.52 | mikeliss | lovely |
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| 22:49.26 | mikeliss | Well, I feel doomed to trial and error until this thing works, but I guess that's my fate. |
| 22:49.31 | mawk | rather ifup -v $IFACE; sleep 600 && { ifdown --force $IFACE; ip link set $IFACE down; ip addr flush dev $IFACE; ip route flush dev $IFACE; cp old_config /etc/network/interfaces; ifup $IFACE; } |
| 22:49.40 | mawk | so that when you ^C when you know it works it doesn't go on with reverting |
| 22:49.58 | mawk | this should settle the inconsistency issues |
| 22:50.41 | mikeliss | That looks pretty great, mawk. |
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| 22:52.28 | mawk | yeah so if you don't do it in a tmux you should use nohup to prevent ssh closing the connection from killing the script |
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| 22:52.45 | mikeliss | I'll just do it in screen, I think. |
| 22:52.56 | mikeliss | Should keep my head above water a bit. |
| 22:52.58 | mawk | good |
| 22:53.00 | mawk | yeah |
| 22:53.15 | mikeliss | Though I still expect to go to the server room before this is over. |
| 22:53.34 | mawk | so for my line you see you have to copy a known good config somewhere |
| 22:53.37 | mawk | so that it can be restored |
| 22:53.50 | mikeliss | Right, yeah. |
| 22:54.07 | mawk | if you're messing with bridges and all you can maybe add ip link set $IFACE nomaster; after the down; command |
| 22:54.10 | mawk | to disable the bridging |
| 22:54.22 | mawk | but maybe ifupdown will take care of that if you wrote a proper config |
| 22:54.39 | mikeliss | Here's a question. I currently have just a static IP. It feels like the next step is to add briding or bonding, but probably not both. Is there a logical approach here to getting everything working? |
| 22:54.59 | somiaj | mikeliss: there isn't a second interface on this server you can just plug into another known server? |
| 22:55.03 | mawk | I never used bonding, what is your final goal ? |
| 22:55.17 | mawk | I use bridging extensively tho |
| 22:55.22 | mikeliss | somiaj: I have two ethernet ports? |
| 22:55.49 | mikeliss | mawk: I'm trying to have two bonded ports and a bridge for KVM all set up with a static IP. |
| 22:55.50 | somiaj | mikeliss: you could just make a local network between this server and another server that have open ethernet ports (get a write between the two, I don't think it even has to be a cross over anymore) |
| 22:56.20 | somiaj | mikeliss: setup an internal network between the two machines, this way you can access your test machine over ssh from another server, and do all the networking stuff there, and won't loose the connection when the network settings your testing go up/down. |
| 22:56.23 | mikeliss | somiaj: I have no idea how to do that, but it sounds promising? |
| 22:56.53 | somiaj | should just have to plug an ethernet cable between the two, then set up static ip address of 192.168.0.1 and 192.168.0.2 on the two interfaces, and they can talk to each other. |
| 22:56.59 | mikeliss | somiaj: I am connecting over SSH from one machine in the network to the one I'm working on, but that connection will go down if I make a mistake. |
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| 22:57.17 | mikeliss | somiaj: Assuming the network is up, right? |
| 22:57.41 | somiaj | well if you connect to a machine that isn't being worked on, you can connect to the machine you are working on through this second network, and that way if you make a mistake and the main network drops, you still have the secondary method of access |
| 22:58.08 | somiaj | but this does require a second server to setup as a back way into the server you are working on, but it could save a lot of trips to the server room. |
| 22:58.37 | mikeliss | I have a second server, but I don't think I can mess around with its network. |
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| 22:59.09 | mikeliss | And I guess I'm also just thinking that I'd like to just stay on task â setting up one more network sounds like one more headache even if it saves me one, I think. |
| 22:59.44 | mawk | mikeliss: here's my /etc/network/interfaces https://paste.serveur.io/rW2b1cal.conf |
| 23:00.04 | mawk | I don't know what a port bond is, with my VMs and containers I never needed it |
| 23:00.19 | mawk | I use various bridges and either veth for containers or macvtap for VMs |
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| 23:00.56 | somiaj | mikeliss: that's fine, scripts to recover will work to. I was just giving an alternative. |
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| 23:01.06 | mikeliss | I'm probably using the wrong terminology. The idea is to have two physical ports work together as one. |
| 23:01.18 | mikeliss | I appreciate it, somiaj. |
| 23:01.24 | mawk | what for ? to turn your computer into a switch ? |
| 23:01.26 | mawk | that's a bridge then yes |
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| 23:01.57 | mikeliss | mawk: Better performance (mostly) and reliability if one ethernet port goes down. |
| 23:02.09 | mawk | that's bonding then, I guess |
| 23:02.18 | mikeliss | Yeah? That's what I was saying? |
| 23:02.20 | AlbinoStoic | That's bonding |
| 23:02.21 | mawk | I guess |
| 23:02.27 | mikeliss | Or intending to? |
| 23:02.28 | AlbinoStoic | and you have various bond modes to pick whether it is reliable or performant |
| 23:02.43 | AlbinoStoic | It generally doesn't do both at the same time (just due to MACs and such) |
| 23:02.55 | mikeliss | Yeah, so I want that + a bridge for KVM. |
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| 23:03.13 | mawk | bridging is like a switch or a hub |
| 23:03.21 | AlbinoStoic | e.g: either you have a policy that handles one connection per port, iterating per connection to balance; and others that try to send packets in the same connection across multiple ports, but this can confuse switches and other machines. |
| 23:04.07 | AlbinoStoic | KVM Bridging especially, just exposes your virtual machines directly to your host network, as unique devices (they don't look like you.) Your host machine becomes a dumbswitch for the VM traffic. |
| 23:04.23 | mawk | yeah, security wise it's not very good mikeliss |
| 23:04.32 | mawk | but I'm sure he meant bridging all the VMs together AlbinoStoic |
| 23:04.35 | mawk | that's what people usually do |
| 23:04.43 | mawk | then use routing and NAT |
| 23:05.17 | mikeliss | I'm new to setting this up, but I think my goal is to have an IP address for the host and an IP address for the guest. |
| 23:05.18 | AlbinoStoic | and/or you just enable "promiscuous bridging" in virtualbox, virt-manager, etc |
| 23:05.22 | AlbinoStoic | or brctl promiscuous on |
| 23:05.23 | mikeliss | And I think a bridge accomplishes that? |
| 23:05.24 | mawk | but on the same network mikeliss ? |
| 23:05.29 | mikeliss | Yeah |
| 23:05.33 | AlbinoStoic | no requirement for NAT, etc. (unless internet incoming) |
| 23:05.36 | mawk | ah, yeah so you want the dumb bridging |
| 23:05.45 | AlbinoStoic | dumb bridging is the easiest |
| 23:05.48 | mawk | so you need to be aware that your VM can talk to anyone on your other network |
| 23:05.49 | mikeliss | I like easy. |
| 23:05.56 | mawk | NAT isn't especially hard either |
| 23:05.58 | mawk | it's like 2 commands |
| 23:06.01 | AlbinoStoic | make a br0 , but eth0 (or enp0s1f6) under it, put VMs under it too, done |
| 23:06.19 | mawk | sysctl -w net.ipv4.conf.all.forwarding=1; iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -s $VM_RANGE ! -d $VM_RANGE -j MASQUERADE |
| 23:06.20 | AlbinoStoic | brctl set promiscuous or w/e to enable inter-VM chatter |
| 23:06.23 | mawk | for the dumbest rule you can do |
| 23:06.29 | mikeliss | We have a private network for the servers. Guests chatting with each other is by design. |
| 23:06.30 | mawk | bridges are always promiscuous AlbinoStoic no ? |
| 23:06.40 | mikeliss | It's only three physical machines. |
| 23:06.45 | mawk | even when it doesn't has the IFF_PROMISC flag |
| 23:06.45 | AlbinoStoic | mawk: You can turn it off in virtualbox, virt-manager or I think in brctl as well |
| 23:06.55 | mawk | yeah but I think it doesn't matter to linux |
| 23:06.57 | AlbinoStoic | then each virtual adapter only gets connected to the host adapter, not to eachother too |
| 23:07.10 | AlbinoStoic | so packets must then go to the host , switch , host , VM -- as opposed to VM <--> VM |
| 23:07.32 | mawk | ah, that's not the same promiscuous as usual then; promiscuous is getting frames for MACs other than you |
| 23:07.41 | mawk | I mixed the two |
| 23:08.08 | AlbinoStoic | If you have VLAN tagging, port trunking, a real switch, literally anything special; promiscuous off can make VMs look like uniquely isolated devices. |
| 23:08.16 | mawk | if it's by design you can go on mikeliss |
| 23:08.26 | mawk | even though even in that case with a few tweaks here and there you can firewall that with iptables |
| 23:08.31 | mawk | so you keep a little security |
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| 23:09.00 | mikeliss | I'd be happy to have more security, but I'm really focused on getting functionality first. |
| 23:09.00 | mawk | you enable net.bridge.bridge-nf-call-iptables |
| 23:09.13 | mawk | then using a special match rule in iptables you can filter the traffic going through the bridge |
| 23:09.20 | mawk | instead of using the very lame ebtables command |
| 23:09.53 | mikeliss | Kinda lost me here, but the final result is what? Specific ports to specific guests? |
| 23:10.02 | mawk | no, just generic firewall |
| 23:10.08 | AlbinoStoic | Security at all, vs ... all packets "just work" |
| 23:10.08 | mawk | you will be able to filter what passes through the bridge |
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| 23:10.18 | mikeliss | Filter by what? |
| 23:10.19 | AlbinoStoic | by default, a bridge, or dumb switch, passes all packets in all directions |
| 23:10.20 | mikeliss | Port? |
| 23:10.23 | AlbinoStoic | anything |
| 23:10.30 | mikeliss | What's typical? |
| 23:10.32 | mawk | you can filter by bridge port, and by anything you want |
| 23:10.39 | AlbinoStoic | iptables lets you filter by proto, port, dst, src, ... content... etc |
| 23:10.41 | mawk | yeah you can say this vm can only talk to this host on this port |
| 23:11.01 | mawk | if you don't enable this sysctl switch you can only filter by ip, and vm can spoof their IPs |
| 23:11.07 | mawk | since they're right on the bridge they can do anything |
| 23:11.12 | AlbinoStoic | ^^^^^ |
| 23:11.12 | mawk | they can even impersonate the host |
| 23:11.19 | AlbinoStoic | Which gets real fun.... |
| 23:11.24 | AlbinoStoic | ebtables prevents that by default, which is nice |
| 23:11.29 | mikeliss | That seem useful. |
| 23:11.30 | mawk | yeah |
| 23:11.39 | AlbinoStoic | vs iptables w/o configuring the nf-bridge feature |
| 23:11.40 | mikeliss | Is there a larger howto on this either of you'd recommend? |
| 23:11.40 | mawk | my sysctl command allows you to use iptables instead of ebtables for all IP traffic |
| 23:11.52 | mawk | you have the same for ip6tables and arptables |
| 23:12.02 | AlbinoStoic | xtables-legacy and friends |
| 23:12.11 | AlbinoStoic | Erm... as per a guide... |
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| 23:12.20 | AlbinoStoic | Cisco bridging documentation was a great read for the theory |
| 23:12.23 | mikeliss | I'm also sort of....um...baffled by all these crazy sysctl commands. Like, wtf is that thing and where did it come from? It seems a new system has passed me by. |
| 23:12.24 | mawk | I don't like ebtables since it has a horrible interface, but iptables is pretty nice |
| 23:12.33 | mawk | it's config options for the kernel |
| 23:12.34 | AlbinoStoic | lots of diagrams and explanation as to what it does on a spec level. |
| 23:12.35 | mawk | very simple interface |
| 23:12.42 | mawk | it's a bunch of files in the /proc/sys directory |
| 23:12.49 | mawk | you write to them like they were real files |
| 23:12.49 | AlbinoStoic | mawk: One of the reasons I am building my own distro: no user-space firewall |
| 23:12.54 | mawk | nice |
| 23:13.14 | mawk | well netfilter is in the kernel |
| 23:13.18 | AlbinoStoic | ksyscall('bpf', rules_ptr); |
| 23:13.18 | mawk | but I get what you mean |
| 23:13.20 | AlbinoStoic | :D |
| 23:13.25 | AlbinoStoic | bpf > netfilter |
| 23:13.27 | mikeliss | Wait, so where do I start my googling on this for a simple but effective way of doing this? |
| 23:13.40 | mikeliss | I can't quite keep up with the convo/jargon. |
| 23:13.42 | AlbinoStoic | mikeliss: Break it down, it's a lot. |
| 23:13.46 | AlbinoStoic | What do you want to learn first? |
| 23:13.50 | mawk | of doing what mikeliss ? you can do the firewall later |
| 23:13.51 | phogg | and soon bpf will be part of netfilter, hopefully |
| 23:14.03 | mawk | firewall isn't required for normal operations in most cases |
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| 23:14.11 | mikeliss | firewall later is my plan, was hoping for something to bookmark now so I can review later. |
| 23:14.16 | mawk | then you have some convoluted network setups where firewall rules are needed, but you're not there yet |
| 23:14.30 | mikeliss | For now I just want to get the danged static bridge/bond connection up. |
| 23:14.35 | mawk | well I just read man iptables and saw a few diagrams, that's how I learnt networking |
| 23:14.55 | mawk | also I had one week-end to move my entire company offices and setup the switches and routers, while knowing nothing to network |
| 23:14.57 | AlbinoStoic | So, to set up bridging for the first time-- consult a hypervisor documentation. |
| 23:14.58 | mawk | that helped me get going |
| 23:15.07 | AlbinoStoic | For example, SolusVM Node Installation -- KVM Bridging tutorial |
| 23:15.13 | mawk | if you want to get your hands dirty you can try making a bridge by hand mikeliss |
| 23:15.27 | AlbinoStoic | That should guide you through exactly that process ^ |
| 23:15.32 | mikeliss | I absolutely do not want my hands any dirtier than needed. :) |
| 23:15.34 | phogg | definitely a good idea to do it by hand at least once |
| 23:15.38 | AlbinoStoic | buuuut, what's your distro again? |
| 23:15.44 | mawk | brctl is outdated, now you can use ip |
| 23:15.49 | AlbinoStoic | rh/fedora/centos or debian/ubuntu/whatever based? |
| 23:15.54 | mikeliss | My distro? Debian. |
| 23:16.00 | AlbinoStoic | take a backup of your network config before you start, as you will take yourself offline repeatedly |
| 23:16.06 | AlbinoStoic | Yeah, so backup /etc/network/interfaces |
| 23:16.10 | mikeliss | Yeah, I did that. |
| 23:16.27 | AlbinoStoic | then make sure you have .. .what? inetutils , iproute2 and bridge-utils ? |
| 23:16.35 | AlbinoStoic | or were those replaced too after brctl went? |
| 23:17.06 | mawk | once you know the trick it's very simple, it takes like 3 steps for a container for instance (a VM a similar): you create a bridge with « ip link add br0 type bridge », you set this bridge as the master of your interface with « ip link set eth0 master br0 », you create a veth pair for use with your container « ip link add veth0 type veth peer name veth1 » and then you setup your container to use veth1 as its interface |
| 23:17.21 | mawk | then you up all the interfaces, add the addresses on br0 as usual |
| 23:17.25 | mawk | and you've got connectivity on the container |
| 23:17.33 | mawk | for a VM it's very similar, it's just macvtap instead of veth |
| 23:17.53 | AlbinoStoic | The thing to remember: Your bridge takes your IP now, not your trunk port (eth0/emp0s1f6) |
| 23:18.00 | AlbinoStoic | that's what screwed me up for a while |
| 23:19.22 | mikeliss | mawk: The amount of magic in that "very simple" trick is boggling. |
| 23:19.24 | mawk | the equivalent in terms of /etc/network/interfaces is specifying bridge_ports eth0 in the iface block for the br0 bridge |
| 23:19.27 | mawk | lol mikeliss |
| 23:19.35 | mawk | ip is the swiss army knife for networking |
| 23:19.43 | AlbinoStoic | oh lawdy |
| 23:19.46 | mikeliss | There are a few of those. |
| 23:19.46 | mawk | more than the swiss army knife, it's the primary gateway to networking |
| 23:19.51 | AlbinoStoic | I just learned hand-routing the other day |
| 23:19.52 | mawk | no, it's the primary tool |
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| 23:20.06 | AlbinoStoic | a newly learned respect for the `ip` tool vs previous tools |
| 23:20.06 | mawk | it's not just another tool, it's the primary command for setting up network |
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| 23:20.21 | AlbinoStoic | `ip route` being so integral to getting anything working in a no-service network :X |
| 23:20.22 | mawk | if you want to get lower level than it you open a terrible netlink socket to the kernel and talk with binary commands |
| 23:20.24 | mikeliss | Good to know. I've seen a lot of sysctl being thrown around too, and ifconfig, and brctl, and whatever else. |
| 23:20.29 | mawk | from a script ip is the lower level you can get |
| 23:20.42 | AlbinoStoic | sysctl <-- changing system configuration in a reliable way |
| 23:20.42 | mawk | ifconfig is the predecessor of ip, it's deprecated now |
| 23:20.50 | mawk | ip replaces brctl, ifconfig, route, arp |
| 23:20.59 | mawk | it replaces all these; it also replaces tunctl, and some others |
| 23:21.13 | AlbinoStoic | the /etc/sysctl.(conf?cfg) file being where those changes can be persisted |
| 23:21.22 | mawk | .conf yes |
| 23:21.30 | mawk | .cfg is uncommon |
| 23:21.32 | AlbinoStoic | mawk: Why is `iproute` still a different subsys/binaries ? |
| 23:21.42 | mawk | what do you mean ? |
| 23:21.46 | mawk | ip is iproute |
| 23:21.49 | mawk | iproute is the name of the package |
| 23:21.49 | AlbinoStoic | e.g: `ip route` ([ip, route]) != `iproute` |
| 23:21.50 | phogg | but it does not replace tc, more's the pity |
| 23:21.51 | mawk | iproute2 rather |
| 23:21.59 | AlbinoStoic | iproute = a different binary , in busybox and GNU systems |
| 23:22.00 | mawk | ah, well it's a single binary AlbinoStoic |
| 23:22.02 | mawk | with a lot of subcommands |
| 23:22.03 | AlbinoStoic | that has a different use, etc |
| 23:22.07 | mawk | ah I don't know about iproute |
| 23:22.14 | mawk | I guess it's the prevous version, now it's iproute2 |
| 23:22.19 | mawk | it's the package name for ip |
| 23:22.22 | AlbinoStoic | It's more, I've never used it- I wonder if I can strip it from my distro |
| 23:22.28 | mawk | I guess you can yes |
| 23:22.30 | AlbinoStoic | `iproute` binary that is, since it doesn't come from the `iproute2` package |
| 23:22.41 | AlbinoStoic | Sweet, thanks. |
| 23:22.59 | mikeliss | Well, this has been edifying. I appreciate all the input. |
| 23:23.28 | mawk | so now you know the lowlevel command for setting up the network, it's ip |
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| 23:23.37 | mawk | your /etc/network/interfaces config file uses ip |
| 23:23.42 | tobiasBora | Are we still supposed to edit files in /etc/X11/xorg? I though is was out of date, but I see quite a lot of ressource (not that old) refering to xorg.conf: http://www.infradead.org/~mchehab/kernel_docs_pdf/linux-input.pdf |
| 23:23.42 | mawk | you can do ifup -v to see that |
| 23:23.54 | mikeliss | I don't want to sound ungrateful, but I think that's one of the few things I definitively learned. |
| 23:23.59 | AlbinoStoic | tobiasBora: Not directly, unless you need a system-wide change. |
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| 23:24.07 | AlbinoStoic | You normally want to use .Xconfig if it's available instead. |
| 23:24.19 | AlbinoStoic | (located in your home directory) |
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| 23:24.45 | mikeliss | If I make changes using ip, do those get persisted somewhere? |
| 23:24.47 | AlbinoStoic | ** ifup isn't guaranteed to be on modern systems anymore, package: ifupdown is depr in favor of raw `ip` usage |
| 23:24.51 | tobiasBora | AlbinoStoic: and I can use the same syntax as in Section "Pointer"...? |
| 23:24.51 | mawk | so yeah if you want to learn ip at your own rythm you can just use ifup -v to see which ip commands correspond to your /etc/network/interfaces file |
| 23:25.01 | AlbinoStoic | mikeliss: No, you have to write them in /etc/network/interfaces to persist |
| 23:25.04 | tobiasBora | AlbinoStoic: and also, how can I take the changes into account? |
| 23:25.05 | mawk | really AlbinoStoic ? |
| 23:25.11 | mawk | what is processing /etc/network/interfaces then ? |
| 23:25.30 | AlbinoStoic | Depends on the system. /etc/init.d/network on mine ,a shell script that calls `ip` various ways :/ |
| 23:25.35 | mawk | ifconfig is deprecated, but ifup is just the thing that processes /etc/network/interfaces, it's higher level |
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| 23:25.42 | mawk | I see |
| 23:25.53 | AlbinoStoic | Ubuntu 18.04 uses netplan now (eugh) |
| 23:25.59 | AlbinoStoic | so no network/interfaces file anymore |
| 23:26.05 | mikeliss | This is nuts. |
| 23:26.14 | mawk | good thing I use debian |
| 23:26.29 | AlbinoStoic | mikeliss: Yeah... don't worry about it too much. Everything changes, a lot |
| 23:26.59 | mikeliss | So, I have to learn ip in order to make changes that I can also make by persisting the interfaces file, which I have to figure out how to do anyway because if I don't none of my changes with ip will do anything after a reboot. |
| 23:27.26 | mikeliss | AlbinoStoic: I guess so. |
| 23:27.54 | mawk | you don't have to learn ip but it's sure useful |
| 23:28.04 | mikeliss | kinda how I'm feeling atm. |
| 23:28.04 | mawk | also to make temporary changes to try out things before writing a config file |
| 23:28.18 | AlbinoStoic | Doing things with `ip` are safer at least in your case, where you can reboot to get your internet back. You could just as well be making changes one-by-one in the file, and asking the networking service to re-apply said file; HOWEVER; |
| 23:28.44 | AlbinoStoic | there are times when re-applying said file can simply "not work", due to the order of operations (e.g: you delete lines describing a bridge interface, then it doesn't know what to do with it) |
| 23:28.55 | mawk | yeah, this is a problem with ifupdown |
| 23:28.58 | AlbinoStoic | and then a reboot is necessary anyways , or manual fixing with `ip` command |
| 23:29.22 | mawk | usually you can down the interface, flush everything, do ifdown --force to force the internal ifupdown state to be down, then ifup it like normal |
| 23:29.22 | mikeliss | That sounds reasonable. |
| 23:29.46 | mikeliss | I suppose `ifdown --force -a` should provide a relatively clean slate. |
| 23:30.12 | mawk | for the internal ifupdown state yes |
| 23:30.18 | mawk | but for the real state I don't know |
| 23:30.26 | mawk | that's why I suggered all the ip command to flush state |
| 23:30.32 | mawk | but it's maybe not necessary, you'll se |
| 23:30.35 | mawk | see |
| 23:30.49 | mawk | you do « ip -c addr » to see the addresses, « ip -c route » to see the routes |
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| 23:38.23 | mikeliss | mawk, AlbinoStoic, does this look reasonable as a simple bridge connection: https://gist.github.com/mlissner/0603a7d268602c90c48e25c6a65031c2 |
| 23:38.38 | mikeliss | (I think I'm going to leave bonding as a second exercise and keep things simple at first.) |
| 23:39.05 | mawk | that's reasonable |
| 23:39.36 | mawk | yeah but it's eno1 not eth1 mikeliss |
| 23:39.41 | mawk | not eth0 * |
| 23:39.43 | mawk | in the bridge_ports |
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| 23:39.59 | mikeliss | Good catch. Thank you! |
| 23:40.02 | mawk | also the other bridge_* commands are superfluous I think, it's just grandma's recipe you find online |
| 23:40.10 | mawk | some people needed them for performance or something and it stuck |
| 23:40.23 | mikeliss | All I can find online are old recipes. |
| 23:40.38 | mikeliss | I mean, that's from the Debian wiki. :) |
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| 23:42.13 | mikeliss | Alright, well, here goes nothing (using the command you offered earlier to revert if needed) |
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| 23:44.46 | mawk | good |
| 23:46.47 | tobiasBora | Any idea why when I run "dev.enable(libevdev.EV_KEY.BTN_TOOL_PEN)" it stops being detected by xinput??? |
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