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| 00:07.09 | nickgaw | The new kernels have a presure sensor option that I hope is enabled in the next Debian official kernel and not disabled as I could use this information probably. |
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| 00:19.39 | rant | nickgaw: is that the extent of your understanding of this option? Because its useless to achieve any technical objective |
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| 00:23.31 | nickgaw | What is it's purpose then? |
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| 00:31.21 | rant | nickgaw: how should I know.. thats the point.. we dont even know what you're talking about |
| 00:31.30 | t3st3r | nickgaw> hum you haven't even told what sensor or kernel and so on. |
| 00:31.42 | rant | when you say pressure sensor I think of that little thing screwed into the block of my engine to monitor oil pressure |
| 00:32.01 | rant | or the thing a bomb maker uses to trigger an explosion |
| 00:32.15 | rant | a whole lot of things that likely have nothing to do with whatever you're talking about |
| 00:32.53 | rant | I dont think, putting my tech hat on that whatever you are referring to has anything to do with pressure or a sensor |
| 00:33.04 | rant | its just your way of understanding it |
| 00:33.16 | t3st3r | Guess he about some actual pressure sensors, maybe even supported by some kernel. But who knows for sure? |
| 00:33.45 | rant | kernel options are in all caps and start with CONFIG_ and you'd serve yourself better to know what this one is called if you want to achieve any technical goal regarding it |
| 00:33.53 | ryouma | cazhe pressure? |
| 00:33.58 | ryouma | cache* |
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| 00:35.13 | nickgaw | PRESSURE STALL INFORMATION PSI |
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| 00:36.45 | rant | aka CONFIG_PSI |
| 00:36.56 | nickgaw | yes |
| 00:37.03 | rant | which is what its actually called that would be meaningful to anyone |
| 00:37.26 | nickgaw | ok so not the full option name that is in the description. |
| 00:37.58 | rant | nope.. less is more is the saying.. |
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| 00:38.52 | nickgaw | and what package is the debian cert .pem file located in? |
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| 00:50.31 | t3st3r | lol, I've guessed incorrectly. I can see this _PSI is some instrumentation. But I guess it can add overhead, no? |
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| 00:53.49 | nickgaw | When compiling the latest kernel sources I get make errors about a debian cert pem file that is not found I was copying the /boot/config file to .config in the kernel source directory and this is how that came up so how do I fix this issue? |
| 00:53.56 | OS-42723 | hello |
| 00:54.16 | whislock | CONFIG_PSI has nothing to do with pressure sensors. CONFIG_PSI creates a /proc space that exposes CPU, memory, and IO pressure statistics. Basically, it's intended to indicate overcommitment of those resources. |
| 00:54.46 | nickgaw | yes that I understand and this is what I want to do. |
| 00:54.58 | whislock | nickgaw: Okay, then you understood it perfectly. |
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| 00:55.24 | nickgaw | yes but my point is I hope that this is enabled in the next kernel release. |
| 00:55.43 | rant | is looking into that |
| 00:55.46 | fundatillus | I have something to say! |
| 00:55.49 | whislock | It's in 4.20. |
| 00:55.53 | fundatillus | Debian is awesome! |
| 00:56.35 | fundatillus | All of you fuckers need to take a step back and appreciate the wisdom, though, and distilled computing excelence before you! |
| 00:56.46 | fundatillus | Happy Saturday⦠drink up! |
| 00:56.48 | rant | fundatillus: #debian-offtopic kthxbye |
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| 00:57.19 | rant | or better yet, turn the computer off before one of you gets hurt |
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| 00:57.44 | fundatillus | Meh⦠|
| 00:58.55 | joepublic | nickgaw, you have to remove CONFIG_SYSTEM_TRUSTED_KEYS |
| 00:59.07 | fundatillus | We need a Debian party. Itâs amazing that this operating system exists. |
| 00:59.29 | whislock | !offtopic |
| 00:59.29 | dpkg | #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day. |
| 00:59.29 | rant | fundatillus: we need you to stop disrupting this channel. Its very rude |
| 00:59.45 | joepublic | if you copied the debian standard distribution .config for your kernel as a base, that option indicates that you're a debian developer with a key you're going to sign the kernel with, which you probably aren't. |
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| 01:00.23 | nickgaw | no I am not how can I remove that what do I look for? |
| 01:00.42 | joepublic | it's in the .config file generated by make (whatever)config in your kernel source directory |
| 01:00.49 | fundatillus | Ok. I can bow to the whims of the people. |
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| 01:01.29 | nuxil | Good evening. |
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| 01:01.37 | fundatillus | Thank you, everyone, for contributing and using one of the greatest creations mankind has ever created. |
| 01:01.52 | nickgaw | ok trusted keys got itif I was wanting to make my own key not for debian just for my own use is there a guide on how to do this? |
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| 01:04.46 | nuxil | i have a problem.. i have my disk (/) almost full. and i need to remove stuff. the thing only got a 4GB disk. :p |
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| 01:05.32 | nuxil | how would i go saftly about removing example my DE,, xfce as i have no use for graphical stuff on it. |
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| 01:07.14 | t3st3r | first thing one may want to try is smth like apt-get clean or so to get rid of package archives. |
| 01:07.20 | nuxil | done that |
| 01:07.31 | Tenkawa | uses tasksel |
| 01:07.31 | nuxil | still 95% full |
| 01:08.02 | Tenkawa | that gets depencies |
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| 01:08.37 | Tenkawa | er dependencies |
| 01:08.52 | t3st3r | hum then it harder. Also some logs, etc. Maybe something in /var/run - but it needs discretion. |
| 01:09.20 | Tenkawa | harder? its a gui |
| 01:09.30 | nuxil | yea logs. im sure i can remove some MB of logs |
| 01:10.00 | Tenkawa | nux... start at root at and first do .. |
| 01:10.09 | Tenkawa | du -smx * |
| 01:10.28 | Tenkawa | figure out where where the major usage is |
| 01:10.36 | Tenkawa | it should be in /usr |
| 01:10.44 | t3st3r | Tenkawa> I meant nuxil seems to be aware of "basic" things - so likely did basic cleanup on his own. |
| 01:11.03 | Tenkawa | if its not then some research needs to be done |
| 01:11.21 | nuxil | its usr indeed |
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| 01:11.39 | t3st3r | that's what makes smart ideas on cleaning things that aren't harmful harder to suggest. |
| 01:12.00 | Tenkawa | nuxil: go to use and repeat. one layer at a time |
| 01:12.08 | nuxil | o.0 |
| 01:12.13 | Tenkawa | how big of a card do you have? |
| 01:12.18 | nuxil | this sounds tediouse |
| 01:12.29 | t3st3r | Say localepurge can be helpful to get rid of useless cruft. Ironically it needs plenty of stuff to work :\ |
| 01:12.33 | nuxil | its 4gb flash storage or something., |
| 01:12.57 | t3st3r | sounds like some SBC or so? |
| 01:12.58 | Tenkawa | what did it allocate your swap as? |
| 01:13.21 | Tenkawa | sometimes it can overalloc |
| 01:13.43 | Tenkawa | or under |
| 01:13.50 | Tenkawa | i |
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| 01:13.57 | Tenkawa | i've had it do both |
| 01:13.57 | nuxil | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:14.09 | nuxil | sda6 swap |
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| 01:14.13 | Tenkawa | yeah thats fine |
| 01:14.27 | t3st3r | also things like deborphan can help to get rid of packages you've not really want - it attempts to guess packages not really needed by anything. |
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| 01:15.38 | nuxil | well. if i get rid of my DE i be getting plenty of space. |
| 01:15.40 | t3st3r | as for swap, I guess swapping to zram is the best, swapping to cards/disks/etc is awful idea overall. |
| 01:16.07 | Tenkawa | t3st3r: and be faster |
| 01:16.14 | t3st3r | lol, without DE I've chopped debian to like 50 megabytes. Sure, it plenty of space and kinda useless system as well :) |
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| 01:16.38 | nuxil | i only ssh into this pc.. |
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| 01:17.04 | Tenkawa | t3st3r: I'm trying to work on zram more |
| 01:17.23 | t3st3r | if you want bare minimum you can try netinstall or debootstrap. |
| 01:17.43 | Hooloovo0 | yeah, debootstrap is the best way to get absolute minimum |
| 01:17.51 | Hooloovo0 | you can get maybe 512k-ish |
| 01:17.56 | nuxil | i dont want to reinstall now :p |
| 01:18.03 | Hooloovo0 | (excluding kernel) |
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| 01:18.44 | t3st3r | Hooloovo0> debian base packages are well over of it, it even attempts to install perl, this alone well above 512k. |
| 01:19.07 | t3st3r | and also package manager and its dependencies, without it it wouldn't be debian :P |
| 01:19.25 | nickgaw | With testing 4.19 is the latest debian kernel package are there later packages of newer kernels? |
| 01:19.35 | t3st3r | guess even just glibc exceeds 512K by considerable margin |
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| 01:20.30 | nuxil | so to get rid of my DE i can just do aptitude search xfce , and start uninstalling one by one ? |
| 01:20.50 | Hooloovo0 | huh, it's been a while since I've done it then |
| 01:21.04 | Hooloovo0 | err 512M |
| 01:21.07 | Hooloovo0 | derp |
| 01:21.45 | Hooloovo0 | yeah 512k is like... a minimal buildroot with sh and a couple other things |
| 01:21.49 | nuxil | apt-get install xfce-* --purge ? |
| 01:22.22 | bltzfsck | im using tmux in an xterm and want to select some text in one of the windows, but the mouse selects everything on the line, regardless of which window it's in |
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| 01:24.09 | t3st3r | Hooloovo0> err 512M <- I've got like 10% of that. But alright, mere list of packages could take around 100Mb for stable + testing + backports. |
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| 01:24.57 | Hooloovo0 | 50M is possible for a minimal linux-based system, but I think debian will have a hard time fitting into that |
| 01:25.16 | Tenkawa | misses dsl |
| 01:25.22 | t3st3r | 32-bit ARM version fits that. |
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| 01:25.32 | Tenkawa | Dam* Small Linux |
| 01:25.46 | t3st3r | harder to do with 64-bit though, that one implies larger binaries. |
| 01:26.01 | friendofafriend | You can sure use OpenWRT. |
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| 01:26.43 | Tenkawa | openwrt.. that one brings back memories tii |
| 01:26.45 | Tenkawa | er too |
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| 01:27.49 | nuxil | thats on my todo list.. got some old routers i want to hack :p |
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| 01:28.53 | Tenkawa | I still have some old routers from my networking days back in the 90s stored in a closet |
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| 01:33.45 | rpifan | Hooloovo0, why r u here |
| 01:33.48 | rpifan | r u stalkign me |
| 01:34.01 | Hooloovo0 | I've been here longer than you |
| 01:34.07 | Hooloovo0 | I think |
| 01:34.41 | t3st3r | guess openwrt can feel kinda crippled system on 4G storage. |
| 01:34.49 | rpifan | hmm |
| 01:35.30 | Hooloovo0 | hmm, I guess I should keep the year in my logs |
| 01:36.19 | rpifan | best if u burn them in winter |
| 01:36.25 | rant | Hooloovo0: you should also register your nick if you're going to be a regular |
| 01:36.48 | Hooloovo0 | I'm registered under Hoolootwo |
| 01:36.54 | Hooloovo0 | should probably get that switched over |
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| 01:37.05 | rant | Hooloovo0: well you can group your nicks under the same account |
| 01:37.14 | rant | its good to have one or two alternates |
| 01:37.32 | nickgaw | Why do that? |
| 01:38.03 | rant | well for one thing, you need an alt should you have connection issues and want to remain identified if you reconnect before the other times out |
| 01:38.11 | Abdullah | so none can occupy them |
| 01:38.51 | rant | and you want to register in general because some channels esp during network trouble times, require registration. It also allows you nick protection so people know you by your nick, use of memoserv, etc |
| 01:38.55 | Abdullah | rant: I'm having problems with ident server |
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| 01:39.13 | rant | Abdullah: yes well these conversations are more for #freenode |
| 01:39.25 | Abdullah | hmm |
| 01:39.26 | Tenkawa | and some channels you cant join without identifying i think too i think |
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| 01:39.57 | Abdullah | yeah like you can't join #linux without identifying to services |
| 01:40.00 | Tenkawa | rather.. you can join |
| 01:40.04 | Tenkawa | but not talk |
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| 01:43.27 | Tenkawa | cheers all.. |
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| 01:45.22 | Abdullah | so how to remove orphans in debian? |
| 01:45.52 | rant | !deborphan |
| 01:45.52 | dpkg | deborphan is a package that will tell you what library packages you have installed that nothing's using. If you want remove all packages use 'deborphan | xargs apt-get -y remove --purge', or a nice tool to clean up grown debians. http://deb.li/3qpqF provides a nice guide to several more steps to reclaim big chunks of HDD. Ask me about <debfoster><autoremove><unmarkauto>. |
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| 01:47.59 | inthl_ | I have a question about the netinstall .iso one can download. it is about 300MB in size. now I have a 8GB USB drive here, what I want to do is: make it the netinstall usb drive, so that by sticking it into the host it can boot from it and do its stuff |
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| 01:48.32 | inthl_ | what I want is to use the remaining 7.7GB (or less in real numbers) as an e.g. ext4 partition to store data on it |
| 01:49.03 | inthl_ | my thoughts were dd if=debian.iso of=/dev/sda ...which would write the first 300MB on the drive, leaving the rest untouched to format as ext4 |
| 01:49.15 | *** join/#debian elkalamar (~elkalamar@unaffiliated/elkalamar) |
| 01:49.29 | inthl_ | but that does not check out, I can not write a partition there using cfdisk or onboard tools. can one tell me what I am doing wrong? |
| 01:50.03 | klys | is there a channel specific to the debian-installer? |
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| 01:50.24 | rant | yes, its on oftc.net wiki.debian.org/IRC |
| 01:50.27 | inthl_ | well my question is more something in general either |
| 01:50.31 | *** join/#debian elkalamar (~elkalamar@unaffiliated/elkalamar) |
| 01:50.46 | inthl_ | how to burn some .iso and use the remaining space as a partition to store data on it |
| 01:50.53 | inthl_ | 'burn' |
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| 01:51.26 | klys | join #debian-installer |
| 01:51.28 | Abdullah | inthl_: that's technically possible |
| 01:51.46 | inthl_ | Abdullah, so what's the show stopper here? |
| 01:52.28 | Abdullah | inthl_: just get another usb and burn iso there. then install to this one. |
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| 01:53.01 | Abdullah | A few days ago I installed an encrypted install on a usb which is 128 gb. |
| 01:53.39 | Abdullah | search with these strings. 'how to create a live usb with persistent storage' |
| 01:53.57 | inthl_ | ah, okay thanks for the hint |
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| 01:54.03 | nuxil | inthl_, look at how they do it with raspberry pi. |
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| 01:54.26 | Abdullah | better idea nuxil |
| 01:54.41 | fling | glxinfo | grep Open -> https://bpaste.net/show/ce804b1b681d |
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| 01:54.42 | fling | libGL error: MESA-LOADER: failed to retrieve device information |
| 01:54.45 | fling | ^ how to fix? ^ |
| 01:54.55 | sheen | Hi there. I've just installed Debian on btrfs volumes (@, @boot and @home), all working fine except running update-grub on the system, it kill my grub, only bootloader is loading but no more boot choice, like if grub.cfg was corrupted. I need to chroot from another distro, update grub, and all good I can boot again my Debian until next update-grub... I've diff between both generated grub.cfg there is NO difference. So I don't understand what is the problem, |
| 01:54.55 | sheen | system is EFI. Help Welcome, thanks. |
| 01:55.38 | Abdullah | sheen only single OS? |
| 01:55.54 | sheen | Abdullah: No I have Mint on another SSD |
| 01:56.09 | Abdullah | in same machine |
| 01:56.17 | Abdullah | I would go for efistub btw |
| 01:56.21 | sheen | Abdullah: trying to migrate to debian testing slowly. |
| 01:56.32 | sheen | Abdullah: ezfi stub ? |
| 01:56.45 | Abdullah | https://theak.me/blog/how-to-boot-kernel-without-bootloader.html |
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| 01:56.59 | sheen | Abdullah: 404 |
| 01:57.28 | Abdullah | sheen just go to the domain and check. it has only 4 entries yet. |
| 01:57.40 | Abdullah | https://theak.me |
| 01:57.41 | sheen | Abdullah: the fact I4d like to use grub cause of btrfs snapsqhots, timeshit and btrfs-grub |
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| 01:58.21 | Abdullah | I had btrfs on arch. and yeah with efistub there too. don't know much about btrfs yeah |
| 01:58.40 | Abdullah | grub I never used on this laptop |
| 01:59.22 | Abdullah | https://theak.me/blog/how-to-direct-boot-kernel-with-efi.html sheen here you go |
| 02:00.10 | Abdullah | sheen is my male cat name ;-) |
| 02:00.25 | sheen | Abdullah: yeah I'm reading, but like I said, I'd llike to keep ghrub for grub-btrfs. I've tried it with a VM it's great? But actuallyt on my real system with another grub on different ssd, seems a mess. |
| 02:00.49 | sheen | Abdullah: ha seriously xD ^^ |
| 02:01.18 | Abdullah | I'm a testing now, and I have used almost all famous active distros with efistub. and never got a problem |
| 02:01.28 | Abdullah | s/a/on |
| 02:01.30 | sheen | Abdullah: Do you think if I unplug my other ssd and reinstall grub on Debian testing could work ? |
| 02:01.52 | Abdullah | sorry mate no idea about grub. |
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| 02:02.59 | Abdullah | yeah you can use rEFInd that has more options. don't forget to read arch wiki on it . (don't know if debian has wiki on it) |
| 02:03.17 | sheen | Abdullah: tbh archwiki is the best wiki :) |
| 02:03.46 | Abdullah | I installed it remotely on a friend machine a few days ago on his arch box. |
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| 02:04.03 | Abdullah | none can beat arch nor arch wiki |
| 02:04.08 | sheen | Abdullah: I don't know much about efi. Can I have multiple EFIO partitions on different ssd or could it be the sourc eof my problems ? |
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| 02:05.21 | sheen | I don't know much about efi. Can I have multiple EFI* partitions on differents ssd or could it be the source of my problems ? |
| 02:05.25 | sheen | New keyboard ;) |
| 02:05.28 | Abdullah | in efistub, you just have to add an entry with efibootmgr or you can write a script in ESP. There you can point the kernel and root to load |
| 02:05.43 | Abdullah | and yeah its very possible. |
| 02:06.03 | Abdullah | I use one OS at one time. but Its technically possible. |
| 02:06.18 | Abdullah | just be sure you have enough space in ESP |
| 02:06.28 | Abdullah | don't forget to mount it at /boot . |
| 02:06.33 | sheen | Abdullah: I think I'll unplug my Mint ssd and do some tests. Because this behavior is really weird. |
| 02:06.48 | Abdullah | other boot managers will mount it at /boot/efi or soemthing |
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| 02:07.25 | Abdullah | sure, lemme know if you have some problems |
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| 02:07.50 | Abdullah | which laptop you have got btw? |
| 02:07.55 | sheen | Abdullah: Got 512Mb sda1 on /boot/efi, sda2 on swap and sda3 btrfs (volumes mounted on /, /boot and /home) |
| 02:08.30 | sheen | Abdullah: not a laptop, a desktop. Ryzen 7, 32Gb, x370, x560 & 1060. |
| 02:08.36 | Abdullah | 512 mbs is good. I have 512 mbs too. |
| 02:09.00 | Abdullah | you can create multiple entries in efi, with efibootmgr |
| 02:09.20 | Abdullah | and then sort them |
| 02:09.58 | Abdullah | you can boot to other os like you boot from some usb. in my machine I hit F12 and it shows me entries to select for boot |
| 02:10.10 | Abdullah | without modifying the entries |
| 02:10.33 | sheen | Abdullah: grub is booting but no os, like is grub was booted in bios mode on EFI system. I've installed it with --efi-directory option btw. |
| 02:10.39 | Abdullah | I'd welcome you on #debian-testing on irc.oftc.net |
| 02:11.21 | sheen | Abdullah: oh thanks, did not not know there was a testing channel |
| 02:11.43 | Abdullah | sheen when I installed debian I didnt create the entry and had issues. so I tried to do something with it like |
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| 02:12.21 | Abdullah | root (hd0,gpt1)/vmlinuz don't forget tab completion there sheen |
| 02:12.48 | Abdullah | root will be your / path |
| 02:13.02 | Abdullah | and also load linux /vmlinuz |
| 02:13.10 | Abdullah | initrd /initrd.img |
| 02:13.16 | Abdullah | and then hit boot |
| 02:13.51 | Abdullah | if you have encrypted installation, you may need extra params like cryptroot |
| 02:13.59 | sheen | how to load it in grub shell . It's btrfs volumes |
| 02:14.03 | sheen | insmod btrfs ? |
| 02:14.23 | Abdullah | these commands were for you sheen (grub) |
| 02:14.57 | sheen | (hdX,gptX) won"t woprk because btrfs volume |
| 02:14.59 | Abdullah | As I said earlier I have no experience with btrfs. but I think it will load them |
| 02:15.06 | sheen | I don't knoww grub syntax for this |
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| 02:15.37 | Abdullah | sheen type root (hd then hit tab |
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| 02:16.06 | sheen | What I don't understand is that if I update-grub from Mint chroot it work, and if I update-grub from debian testing itself, it won't. |
| 02:16.06 | Abdullah | it will show you something like no file system detected. even if it say that just complete the path |
| 02:16.38 | Abdullah | sorry sheen no idea about both grub and btrfs. |
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| 02:16.55 | Abdullah | I hope you can get help in ##linux |
| 02:17.12 | sheen | I had not this isuee on efi VM; I'm pretty sure it's related to my other grub on my other ssd. |
| 02:17.14 | Abdullah | I wish I could ;-) |
| 02:17.34 | Abdullah | maybe you have to specify the path for grub |
| 02:17.35 | sheen | I give it a try, thanks :) |
| 02:17.57 | sheen | already specified, --efi-directory --bot-directory and --target |
| 02:18.02 | sheen | can't do much more |
| 02:18.43 | Abdullah | grub-mkconfig ? |
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| 02:21.01 | sheen | already tried |
| 02:21.18 | t3st3r | nuxil> either way, if you remove DE, running deborphan to clean up plenty of unneeded libs could be a good idea, etc. |
| 02:21.27 | sheen | grub-update, grub-update2, grubmk-config -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg |
| 02:21.30 | sheen | all same issue |
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| 03:06.55 | leopard | can anyone confirm that the nftables icmpv6 type "ind-neighbor-solicit" is not valid in nftables 0.7? I know it is in unstable (v. 0.9) but not sure if the error is me or the old version on stretch |
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| 03:15.54 | Abdullah | leopard: I don't have stretch now |
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| 03:44.20 | idiot136 | <PROTECTED> |
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| 03:44.35 | uptime | no |
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| 03:44.38 | s3rf | lol |
| 03:44.38 | idiot136 | <PROTECTED> |
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| 03:44.42 | s3rf | broke |
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| 03:44.50 | s3rf | ccccombo breakerrr |
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| 03:45.01 | s3rf | slaps idiot136 around a bit with a large trout |
| 03:45.03 | uptime | Sigyn: bruh |
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| 03:45.36 | idiot136 | hail dobbs |
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| 03:46.57 | idiot136 | hail dobbs |
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| 03:47.57 | rant | !ops idiot136 flood |
| 03:47.58 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: rant complains about a problem (see above) |
| 03:48.00 | idiot136 | <PROTECTED> |
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| 03:48.14 | idiot136 | hail dobbs |
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| 03:48.25 | s3rf | this is funny |
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| 03:48.55 | s3rf | this is my first time back on irc in like 20 years and instead of 100s of idiots doing this dumbshit its just one sad lonely person left |
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| 03:49.44 | konimex | well, you're on freenode and it's... "well-managed" to say the least |
| 03:50.08 | s3rf | so is it still the wild wild west on dalnet/efnet etc? |
| 03:50.51 | konimex | dunno about dalnet, but efnet's pretty much a wasteland at this point |
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| 03:51.11 | s3rf | sad |
| 03:51.18 | s3rf | so many good memories |
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| 03:58.55 | leopard | so many memories on efnet |
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| 04:18.18 | Old_Dog | just got his Internet service back. |
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| 04:21.15 | Tom-_ | does old dog like water? |
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| 04:26.32 | madrik | Greetings. |
| 04:26.58 | Tom-_ | greetings |
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| 04:42.14 | rant | apparently I have no idea how to use experimental packages I wanted to test one in a sid base vm I have I'd tried doing it like stretch-backports and its saying there is no new package available |
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| 04:44.13 | rant | nm I assumed the metapackage existed which was probably silly to assume :P |
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| 04:59.59 | carlino3 | hello |
| 05:00.23 | rant | carlino3: hello, how can we help? |
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| 05:00.25 | carlino3 | i'm experiencing this issue: "the root filesystem on /dev/mapper/hostname--vg-root requiers a manual fsck" |
| 05:00.42 | carlino3 | and the built-in shell prompts |
| 05:00.53 | rant | carlino3: so run a manual fsck on it |
| 05:01.07 | carlino3 | of course, but i don't want to screw it up |
| 05:01.11 | carlino3 | how can i do it safely? |
| 05:01.40 | carlino3 | simply "fsck" is enough? |
| 05:01.49 | rant | safely? heh.. an fsck is required cause damage to the fs was detected.. thats what fsck does, fix things |
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| 05:02.10 | carlino3 | i know, i mean. what options do i need to pass to fsck |
| 05:02.13 | rant | fsck is enough, yes.. though you will have to manually confirm each action required |
| 05:02.25 | carlino3 | is it ok to "yes to all"? |
| 05:02.35 | rant | if you are willing to trust fsck to do what needs to be done you can add the switch for yes to all |
| 05:02.49 | carlino3 | ok, i'll proceed. |
| 05:02.50 | rant | thats what I'd do |
| 05:03.13 | carlino3 | i have to reboot and call /bin/bash from grub right? |
| 05:03.29 | rant | not necessarily |
| 05:03.32 | carlino3 | i have a shell "initramfs" |
| 05:03.44 | carlino3 | when i write "fsck" it only says "fsck from util-linux xx.xx.xx" |
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| 05:05.15 | rant | carlino3: do you have another media you could boot from? It'd overall be safer if the fs wasnt mounted and simpler using a full fsck than the busybox |
| 05:05.39 | carlino3 | no, i think that i will call /bin/bash from grub. |
| 05:05.44 | carlino3 | is this ok? |
| 05:06.07 | rant | sure if it is functional enough to mount and boot that way |
| 05:06.17 | rant | it should boot read-only |
| 05:06.23 | carlino3 | i'm using debian home directory encryption |
| 05:06.27 | carlino3 | does that change anything? |
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| 05:07.05 | rant | the /home has little to do with root operations or problems with the rootfs if its a seperate fs |
| 05:07.22 | rant | root's homedir is /root not in /home |
| 05:07.23 | carlino3 | can you please remember me how to execute /bin/bash from grub? |
| 05:07.42 | carlino3 | i remember that i have to edit some settings but i dont remember how to do it |
| 05:07.52 | rant | carlino3: press e to edit the command line and append init=/bin/bash to the linux command line |
| 05:08.02 | rant | the instructions will typically be on screen |
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| 05:08.17 | carlino3 | rant: thanks |
| 05:08.21 | carlino3 | lets see |
| 05:09.57 | carlino3 | f10 = save and boot right? |
| 05:10.38 | carlino3 | if yes, it is not working. the error occurs when the home directory is decrypted |
| 05:10.47 | rant | I dont recall but as I said the instructions are usually on the screen |
| 05:10.50 | carlino3 | no bash shell is executed |
| 05:11.05 | carlino3 | rant: yes, it says F10 to boot, but it does not specify that |
| 05:11.16 | carlino3 | but i assume that |
| 05:11.27 | carlino3 | so i will have to do it from busybox, no other options |
| 05:11.54 | carlino3 | can i execute /bin/bash from busybox? |
| 05:12.13 | rant | you could if you mounted the rootfs and pivot_root |
| 05:12.50 | rant | the utilties in busybox are just slimmed to fit in the image.. they have less features like flexible syntax.. you have to be more specific when using them |
| 05:13.02 | carlino3 | "exec fsck" |
| 05:13.14 | carlino3 | "UNEXPECTED INCONSISTENCY; RUN fsck MANUALLY" |
| 05:13.17 | carlino3 | the same message apperas. |
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| 05:16.01 | carlino3 | solved, i had to pass the fs name as parameter |
| 05:16.24 | carlino3 | but now, it boots in emergency mode |
| 05:18.16 | carlino3 | rant: i can exec a bash shell but i cannot see my hostname nor my home folder in /home. ("root@(none)") |
| 05:18.19 | carlino3 | did i screw it up? |
| 05:19.06 | rant | did it not tell you why this happened? if not, you may want to check journalctl |
| 05:19.42 | carlino3 | i cant see the complete output because it does not fits on the screen and i have no scroll feature |
| 05:20.05 | rant | well the interesting bits are usually at the end, and journalctl usually uses the system pager |
| 05:20.32 | carlino3 | rant: i dont see anything relevant |
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| 05:21.24 | rant | well I can't really guess.. you'd have to explain to me more what this system is, how its setup, and anything you may know that could've caused this.. like a power failure or something |
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| 05:21.55 | carlino3 | rant: it happened before and i fixed it with fsck. the system was freezed, i rebooted and this issue started again |
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| 05:22.24 | carlino3 | this is the error message |
| 05:22.37 | __m4ch1n3__ | had something similar once it was like it could not boot into initramfs, if you have an installation media you could try boot it and select rapair system, if it gives you a shell where you can execute update-initramfs try that |
| 05:22.40 | carlino3 | "Failed to start File System Check on /dev/mapper/hostname--vg-home" |
| 05:22.47 | carlino3 | "Dependency failed for /home" |
| 05:22.48 | s3rf | . |
| 05:22.49 | s3rf | 30 |
| 05:22.55 | carlino3 | "Dependency failed for Local File Systems." |
| 05:22.57 | s3rf | ..0 |
| 05:22.58 | s3rf | .0 |
| 05:23.30 | rant | meh.. ok.. well you should probably learn more about diagnosing what you call a "freeze" and know how to properly shut the machine down to avoid damage to your somewhat complex filesystem setup |
| 05:24.02 | carlino3 | rant: yes, my bad. but now i need to recover the fs. |
| 05:24.32 | __m4ch1n3__ | if grub recovery cant fix it boot debian installation iso try repair options |
| 05:24.35 | rant | carlino3: right well could you start by explainging to me what this system is.. is it a desktop, server, vm? What is the system on it? |
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| 05:24.57 | carlino3 | rant: it is a desktop computer |
| 05:25.00 | __m4ch1n3__ | *recovery boot option from grub |
| 05:25.10 | carlino3 | rant: debian 9 |
| 05:25.28 | carlino3 | rant: maybe run another fsck? |
| 05:26.06 | rant | carlino3: well obviously it tried that already and failed and said there was a dependency issue usually meaning the mapper failed possibly indicating damage to the disk, LVM, or such |
| 05:26.26 | __m4ch1n3__ | is it an luks crypted lvm |
| 05:26.29 | __m4ch1n3__ | ? |
| 05:27.04 | carlino3 | this could be helpful |
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| 05:27.19 | carlino3 | "WARNING: Failed to connect to lvmetad. Falling back to device scanning" |
| 05:27.33 | __m4ch1n3__ | isnt the maper script part of initramfs? |
| 05:27.36 | rant | thats actually fairly normal |
| 05:27.45 | carlino3 | yes, i see that message a long time ago |
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| 05:28.41 | __m4ch1n3__ | *mapper |
| 05:30.38 | carlino3 | rant: solved by another fsck |
| 05:30.41 | carlino3 | thank you to all! |
| 05:31.06 | carlino3 | i will never shut down the machine that way... haha |
| 05:31.27 | rant | carlino3: yes first of all you should make sure the system is actually frozen before doing that |
| 05:31.48 | rant | carlino3: most of the times sysrq is still available to you and can flush the disks before rebooting |
| 05:31.57 | carlino3 | rant: it was. i'm having issues with gedit. |
| 05:32.03 | __m4ch1n3__ | could happen acidently, powerblackout or so |
| 05:32.15 | carlino3 | the damn search feature freezes the system almost all the times |
| 05:32.30 | carlino3 | and some times it gets completely unresponsive |
| 05:32.49 | __m4ch1n3__ | because of |
| 05:32.57 | __m4ch1n3__ | IO disk access? |
| 05:33.08 | rant | carlino3: REKSUB |
| 05:34.42 | rant | carlino3: alt+sysrq+<letter> R takes back the keyboard from X, E sends SIGTERM asking processes to exit, K sends SIGKILL forcing them to exit, S to flush cache to disk, U to remount all fs read-only and B to reboot |
| 05:34.57 | carlino3 | __m4ch1n3__: it is a bad design. managing large text files with gedit, it appears to be seraching on keyup event. so whatever you write, it freezes finding the first character on a large file. |
| 05:35.00 | rant | carlino3: doing this will prevent filesystem damage |
| 05:35.08 | __m4ch1n3__ | https://manpages.debian.org/testing/util-linux/ionice.1.en.html |
| 05:35.24 | carlino3 | rant: interesting, thanks for the advice |
| 05:36.21 | rant | carlino3: the K alone, also known as a SAK sysrq+alt+kill may solve the issue and will usually from X result in merely sending you back to the login screen |
| 05:36.51 | __m4ch1n3__ | lower iopriority for gedit below default system priority |
| 05:36.51 | carlino3 | sysrq = command key? |
| 05:37.18 | rant | no its the sysrq key.. if not labelled on your keyboard its commonly the PrntScr key on most normal PC 104 style keyboards |
| 05:37.35 | rant | you can try a SAK and see if it works.. it should take you back to the login screen |
| 05:37.40 | carlino3 | rant: oh, i see "prt sc sysrq" |
| 05:38.18 | rant | sysrq allows you to communicate directly with the kernel when things get out of hand |
| 05:38.35 | carlino3 | rant: very helpful, thanks for the information |
| 05:38.45 | carlino3 | do you use gnome? |
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| 05:39.42 | carlino3 | i used it in different distros, different hardware and i experience freezes very frequently |
| 05:39.51 | rant | i try not to.. i think using windows or getting a colonoscopy are about as unpleasant |
| 05:40.13 | carlino3 | by windows you mean ms windows or a graphical desktop? |
| 05:40.55 | rant | yes i mean Microsoft(r) Windows(tm) |
| 05:41.13 | carlino3 | what has to do gnome with ms windows? |
| 05:41.47 | rant | its about as unusable |
| 05:41.56 | __m4ch1n3__ | if its cuz of disk read/write "ionice -c3 -p $(pgrep gedit)" would give gedit idle-class priority, means gedit can read/write to disk only if nothing other does |
| 05:41.57 | rant | only better documented and better to multi-task with :P |
| 05:42.07 | carlino3 | what graphical desktop do you recommend? |
| 05:42.19 | rant | I'd recommend any of them over GNOME personally |
| 05:42.43 | __m4ch1n3__ | :3 whats wrong with gnome? |
| 05:42.47 | carlino3 | __m4ch1n3__: i don't think that is an IO issue, more likely eating all CPU usage serching a single character through a 1 MB text file |
| 05:42.54 | rant | MATE, XFCE, LXDE, or if you want something a lil more flashy, Cinnamon |
| 05:43.13 | carlino3 | __m4ch1n3__: like i said, i experience random freezes with almost any hardware i tested |
| 05:43.37 | carlino3 | i3 + gb ram. i don't think that is a requirements issue |
| 05:43.41 | carlino3 | 4gb* |
| 05:43.49 | rant | what isn't wrong with gnome.. you have to search for applications because the menu is incomprehensible and unnecessarily complex, it no longer allows right clicking to configure anything, its highly undocumented, it runs like a kiosk and makes it hard to multi task.. |
| 05:44.22 | rant | in general GNOME3 has set all the GTK FOSS world back decades |
| 05:44.24 | __m4ch1n3__ | would give ionice a try |
| 05:45.31 | rant | 3 features regarding scrollbars that were changed in GTK3 for example.. the transparency, seeking to location when clicked, and auto-hiding of scrollbars.. all poorly documented, all three regarding the same widget, are configured seperately in 3 different places |
| 05:45.44 | rant | none of which are easy to figure out or exposed through any UI |
| 05:47.03 | rant | you shouldnt release an upgrade that undoes tons of GUI configuration, and then program it incoherently incohesive and fail to document it and call that progress |
| 05:47.14 | rant | It |
| 05:47.31 | rant | It'd be different if gnome didnt have these things to begin with, but it did prior to 3.x |
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| 05:48.39 | rant | you wanna know whats wrong with gnome/gtk3 I challenge you to go revert those 3 scrollbar behaviors on your own.. I'll see you back here in a week with patches of your hair missing :D |
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| 05:50.53 | rant | or since I already did this and documented it just see /msg dpkg gtk3 scrollbar fix |
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| 05:53.42 | __m4ch1n3__ | after playing around with blackbox, fluxxbox and finaly openbox i realized that i dont need 99% of the fulll de services and other stuff |
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| 05:55.19 | __m4ch1n3__ | dont need udiskd & all other resources wasting always runnig gimmicks |
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| 05:56.44 | __m4ch1n3__ | just adwaita(-qt) dark openbox,gtk,qt theme pcmanfm + fbpanel |
| 05:56.54 | __m4ch1n3__ | *dark theme |
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| 06:25.01 | __m4ch1n3__ | rant ahh awesome, have same issue with openbox and gtk windows like synaptic and its so anoying. the horizontal scrollbar when appers covers the last entry in list so its not possible to click it |
| 06:25.25 | rant | __m4ch1n3__: yes my point exactly.. this crap has harmed people not even using GNOME :P |
| 06:25.41 | rant | which is what caused me to figure out how to solve that specific issue and document it |
| 06:27.13 | rant | this is what happens when you have a fragmented group of ideological developers making radical changes to widely used code |
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| 10:08.16 | adamantium | Hi, i can't find the page for amd64 server edition + nonfree firmware, can someone help me |
| 10:09.33 | n4dir | there is nothing like a server edition for debian, as far i know, but i am rather sure. Just use the non-free amd64 download |
| 10:10.12 | __m4ch1n3__ | https://cdimage.debian.org/images/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/ |
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| 10:15.21 | adamantium | ty |
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| 10:26.15 | at0m | adamantium: or go from netinstall if you prefer not to get desktop and other bundles |
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| 10:27.05 | n4dir | at0m: no need for the netinstall for that, just deselect what you don't want during tasksel |
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| 13:11.41 | brenlae | i have debian 9.7 with apt 1.4.9, i heard there was some sort of security risk, am i safe? |
| 13:12.43 | themill | that is the fixed version |
| 13:12.57 | brenlae | themill: oh thank you very much :) |
| 13:13.22 | brenlae | themill: have a nice day :) |
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| 13:13.27 | themill | (you should subscribe to debian-security-announce https://www.debian.org/security/2019/dsa-4371 ) |
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| 14:38.59 | PsynoKhi0 | hey, in light of the recent apt vulnerability, I've been wondering about feasibility of MitM attacks in my case: as the sole user on my network, and DNS queries being cached on my router, from my ISP's DNS servers, am I correct when assuming that, should I be the target of MitM attacks I'd have bigger issues to worry about than an vuln in apt? |
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| 14:43.24 | Tom-_ | i'd love to help you but i don't know |
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| 14:43.41 | Tom-_ | apt sounds more vulnerable than a run-of-the mill firefox hole at this point |
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| 14:44.36 | arm1e | Hi, can anywone help with installing latest nvidia drivers. Must be 396.57 or higher |
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| 14:46.18 | Tom-_ | maybe.... doesn't it come with a .run file that does everything for you? |
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| 14:47.11 | arm1e | wondered if there was anything special to do |
| 14:47.30 | xand | !nvidia |
| 14:47.30 | dpkg | Where possible, Nvidia graphic processing units are supported using the open source <nouveau> driver on Debian systems by default. To install the proprietary "nvidia" driver, see https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers or ask me about <nvidia dkms>, <nvidia legacy>; installing this directly from nvidia.com (i.e. with <nvidia-installer>) is _not_ supported in #debian, please go to #nvidia on irc.freenode.net. |
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| 14:50.53 | arm1e | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:51.59 | Tom-_ | probably the wiki and two other <> options it mentioned |
| 14:52.09 | Tom-_ | !nvidia dkms |
| 14:52.09 | dpkg | For Debian 7 "Wheezy" and later systems. Ask me about <contrib> and <non-free sources>. «aptitude -r install linux-headers-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'` nvidia-kernel-dkms && mkdir -p /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d ; echo -e 'Section "Device"\n\tIdentifier "My GPU"\n\tDriver "nvidia"\nEndSection' > /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf». Restart your system to enable the <nouveau> blacklist. |
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| 14:53.54 | blackflow | arm1e: "not supported" means if you break something, you get to keep the pieces, otherwise Debian won't stand in your way. Personally I would not recommend installing system files outside of a package manager. |
| 14:54.32 | arm1e | blackflow, Me either, but if I want proton to work I need to have at least 396 |
| 14:54.36 | blackflow | arm1e: what you could do is try to backport the package from experimental |
| 14:54.45 | blackflow | Maybe someone could recommend a better link: https://wiki.debian.org/SimpleBackportCreation |
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| 14:55.36 | blackflow | note however that problems might ensue if you need newer mesa which then means a whole lotta more package changes and likely breakage |
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| 14:55.51 | arm1e | beyond my level of expertise |
| 14:56.22 | arm1e | It is frustrating since all I can find is the .run file or a ppa. |
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| 14:57.43 | blackflow | I'm also not sure using the driver from upstream (via .run) would work. Steam needs 32-bit opengl and driver stupport, which means multilib and quite a lot more work, for which you better have a deb file. |
| 14:58.33 | blackflow | maybe enabling the experimental repo just for nvidia-driver might be the easiest way but.... apt pinning is not recommended unless you know what you're doing, and there's that question of pulling in all the other requirements, like mesa that I mentioned. |
| 14:58.37 | themill | just install from stretch-backports? |
| 14:58.45 | blackflow | that's 390 |
| 14:58.48 | themill | ah |
| 14:58.59 | blackflow | 390 is the LTS iirc |
| 14:59.12 | blackflow | so I guess it'll get bumped with a regular package with the next LTS |
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| 15:01.50 | arm1e | So no proton gaming on debian based systems unless it is ubuntu? |
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| 15:05.23 | PsynoKhi0 | maybe SteamOS... also you might want to consider a Radeon for your next GPU purchase |
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| 15:07.30 | arm1e | No, just confirming that it is not worth me switching distros, and instead sticking with the distro I already have. |
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| 15:15.03 | Tom-_ | arm1e, I'm using Steam on a Debian-stretch derived version now |
| 15:15.21 | Tom-_ | arm1e, I think I have Proton installed but I'm unsure if I've used it. Intel video card |
| 15:15.25 | Tom-_ | anyway i'd just install the .run file |
| 15:15.30 | Tom-_ | knock yourself out |
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| 15:18.04 | casualnewbie | Hi guys ! |
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| 15:21.29 | Deihmos | does debian make a better server than ubuntu? |
| 15:21.43 | Deihmos | the file size seems to be so much smaller |
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| 15:26.06 | EdePopede | which file? |
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| 15:27.05 | PsynoKhi0 | I'd say it depends... "server" is kinda vague, also there are different releases, but overall from my experience with stable releases, Debian tends to offer better stability through more thoroughly tested packages while Ubuntu offers newer feature sets... |
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| 15:29.36 | blackflow | newer features sets and stuff like netplan, cloud-init that turn seasoned debian admin into a "wth is this" noob. :) |
| 15:30.10 | blackflow | (by "noob" I mean you get to learn a whole new set of paradigms and config options, if you wanna keep using the defaults) |
| 15:30.19 | apollo13 | cloud-init is not specific to ubuntu though |
| 15:30.35 | petn-randall | cloud-init is a pretty nifty feature if you know how to use it. It's good to note however that Ubuntu only offers security support for *main*, which is only 10% of their repo if you count them all. |
| 15:30.36 | apollo13 | literally everyone is using that nowadays to bootstrap cloud images afaik |
| 15:30.42 | blackflow | no but it's a default that messes certain configuration paradigms established in debian |
| 15:30.44 | petn-randall | correct |
| 15:31.08 | blackflow | problm is, it's there even for non-coud server installations |
| 15:31.14 | apollo13 | blackflow: last time I checked it only did stuff on first boot, like adding an ssh key etc⦠|
| 15:31.16 | apollo13 | blackflow: where? |
| 15:31.34 | apollo13 | I do not see it on a default ubuntu install here |
| 15:31.43 | apollo13 | well I see it as available package, but not installed |
| 15:31.46 | blackflow | apollo13: part of the regular server installation, whether its a "cloud" or not |
| 15:32.12 | casualnewbie | Can anyone help me with Nvidia drivers on debian ? :) |
| 15:32.17 | apollo13 | blackflow: you and I must have a different idea of regular then |
| 15:32.18 | petn-randall | blackflow: That's a Ubuntu design decision, and not a problem with cloud-init itself. |
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| 15:32.31 | petn-randall | casualnewbie: Go ahead and ask your real question. :) |
| 15:32.39 | casualnewbie | Under 9.6 debian |
| 15:32.45 | apollo13 | blackflow: I just looked through 3 server installs and none of them has it installed |
| 15:32.48 | casualnewbie | z820 hp workstation |
| 15:32.59 | casualnewbie | K2000 + K40 nvidia cards physically installed |
| 15:33.09 | blackflow | petn-randall: yes, that's why I said "if you wanna keep using the defaults". because its' easy to remove all that additional layering, as long as one is aware of it. |
| 15:33.15 | casualnewbie | I install drivers according to debian tutorial |
| 15:33.27 | casualnewbie | 42:00.0 3D controller: NVIDIA Corporation GK110BGL [Tesla K40m] (rev a1) |
| 15:33.41 | casualnewbie | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:33.48 | casualnewbie | When I try to do this : cat: '/sys/bus/pci/devices/0000:05:00.0/remove': Permission denied |
| 15:33.58 | casualnewbie | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:34.05 | casualnewbie | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:34.19 | casualnewbie | nvidia-smi shows only K2000 without any mention of K40 |
| 15:34.26 | PsynoKhi0 | shameless plug for a question I asked earlier, in light of the recent apt vulnerability, I've been wondering about feasibility of MitM attacks in my case: as the sole user on my network, and DNS queries being cached on my router, from my ISP's DNS servers, am I correct when assuming that, should I be the target of MitM attacks I'd have bigger issues to worry about than an vuln in apt? |
| 15:35.04 | casualnewbie | glxgears are spinning nicely |
| 15:35.16 | casualnewbie | no idea how to get K40 up and running |
| 15:35.19 | PsynoKhi0 | ouch sorry I pressed enter too fast, I wanted to let casualnewbie finish their statement :/ |
| 15:35.33 | casualnewbie | No problems, no worries PsynoKhi0 |
| 15:35.34 | petn-randall | PsynoKhi0: The apt vulnaribility has clear steps how to remove it, so it's easy to resolve that. |
| 15:35.49 | petn-randall | *vulneribility |
| 15:35.53 | petn-randall | *vulnerability |
| 15:35.58 | casualnewbie | :) |
| 15:36.00 | petn-randall | damnit, can't type today :D |
| 15:36.24 | blackflow | PsynoKhi0: yes. |
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| 15:37.05 | blackflow | should you be the target of MitM... there's bigger fish to fry than worrying about apt. though this one was quite a biggie, it's resolved fast |
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| 15:38.08 | PsynoKhi0 | petn-randall: yes... unfortunately I tend to do a plain apt update && apt dist-upgrade first thing when I power on the machine (before browsing, so no care for the -o recommendations), which might have bit me in the rear this time around |
| 15:38.58 | casualnewbie | Anyone have any ideas on the problem I am facing ? |
| 15:39.40 | petn-randall | casualnewbie: So your issue is that one nvidia card is working, and the other one (K40m) isn't? |
| 15:39.49 | casualnewbie | Yeah |
| 15:40.06 | casualnewbie | I have several K40 |
| 15:40.07 | blackflow | casualnewbie: I'm not sure what your problem is or what you're trying to achieve, but if I understand correctly, you want to force one of the GPUs being used? should be doable by forcing a xorg.conf |
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| 15:40.21 | petn-randall | casualnewbie: It might be well possible that the non-free driver doesn't support using all in parallel. I'd do some research about that. |
| 15:40.28 | casualnewbie | Tried swapping them - same problem, tried different PCI slots - no difference |
| 15:40.45 | petn-randall | casualnewbie: Does it work if you *only* have the K40m inside? |
| 15:41.03 | casualnewbie | K40 does not have any outputs |
| 15:41.14 | PsynoKhi0 | petn-randall: if you are referring to Acquire::http::AllowRedirect=false that is |
| 15:41.33 | casualnewbie | So I am forced to use both cards |
| 15:41.50 | casualnewbie | It is gpu accelerator, I intend to use it only for computations |
| 15:42.28 | PsynoKhi0 | blackflow: thanks, so you reckon that, as it stands, it's a bigger concern for e.g. larger networks, hosted environments etc. |
| 15:43.12 | PsynoKhi0 | casualnewbie: so a gpgpu |
| 15:43.36 | blackflow | PsynoKhi0: no, I'm not evaluating possibility for you being MitM. I said assuming "should you be the target" of one, there's a lot of vectors to consider. also, there could currently be more apt or other mitm-facilitating vulns that we know nothing about. |
| 15:43.50 | blackflow | which means to say, don't obsess with this one, patch asap, and move on ;) |
| 15:43.58 | casualnewbie | PsynoKhi0, yes |
| 15:44.45 | PsynoKhi0 | blackflow: all patched up, I wish I had been more timely, maybe time for me to have a few more non-debian systems though |
| 15:45.21 | PsynoKhi0 | casualnewbie: is the gpgpu even supposed to be supported by the same driver as the other card? |
| 15:45.49 | petn-randall | PsynoKhi0: yes |
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| 15:46.21 | zleap | hi |
| 15:46.42 | PsynoKhi0 | yeah I should have waited till casualnewbie had gotten their answers, because now the crossfire is starting to confuse me :D |
| 15:46.47 | petn-randall | Sorry, I was referring to Acquire::http::AllowRedirect=false |
| 15:46.55 | PsynoKhi0 | petn-randall: ah ty |
| 15:47.07 | PsynoKhi0 | yeah I didn't do that at first... |
| 15:47.54 | blackflow | PsynoKhi0: non-debian systems are not safe from this kind of issues. Two years ago, for example, freebsd had a very similar problem through a libarchive vuln, which wasn't patched for months. secteam knew, told nobody, until someone leaked it on twitter. |
| 15:48.14 | blackflow | so if you're really concerned about security, you should layer up mitigtions, and make sure you have good intrusion detection. |
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| 15:49.26 | casualnewbie | Checking card: NVIDIA Corporation GK110BGL [Tesla K40m] (rev a1) |
| 15:49.26 | casualnewbie | Your card is supported by the default drivers and legacy driver series 340. |
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| 15:49.32 | casualnewbie | Checking card: NVIDIA Corporation GK107GL [Quadro K2000] (rev a1) |
| 15:49.32 | casualnewbie | Your card is supported by the default drivers and legacy driver series 340. |
| 15:49.39 | casualnewbie | according to nvidia-detect - it is |
| 15:50.12 | casualnewbie | According to https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers also |
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| 15:50.29 | PsynoKhi0 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:51.16 | petn-randall | casualnewbie: I'm not sure if I understand the issue then. If it's a pure compute module without video output, why are you expecting that glxgears works on it? |
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| 15:51.30 | petn-randall | casualnewbie: How are you testing if the driver is working on the K40m? |
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| 15:52.21 | PsynoKhi0 | casualnewbie: any mention of both cards in e.g. dmesg? do you have any application that could let you choose the compation card? |
| 15:52.23 | casualnewbie | I mean glxgears works using K2000 - so I assume driver for K2000 is installed correctly |
| 15:52.39 | casualnewbie | Since both cards are supported by the same driver |
| 15:52.51 | casualnewbie | Why I can only see K2000 under nvidia-smi |
| 15:53.34 | PsynoKhi0 | glxgears expects to output something on the screen though, if your K40 has no video output... how do you expect glxgears to use it? |
| 15:53.54 | casualnewbie | PsynoKhi0, once again - both cards are supported by the same driver. |
| 15:54.17 | PsynoKhi0 | yes I got that part, what I'm wondering about is: |
| 15:54.31 | blackflow | PsynoKhi0: actually it's a bit unintuitive. differentiating systems can only lead to _more_ vulnerabilities. See the Monty Hall problem. Or problem with disks in a RAID. If one disk had probability of failure X, then 10 such disks would mean probability of 10*X that at least one will fail in the same period. |
| 15:54.38 | casualnewbie | K40 and K2000, but only K2000 has video ouput. So I check glxgears(it works...). I don't say glxgears is using K40 |
| 15:55.19 | zleap | what is the command for listing upgradeable packages, I think i sort of have it right but I have the spelling wrong somewhere, dpkg -list--upgradeable |
| 15:55.36 | blackflow | PsynoKhi0: (so if all 10 were mirrors, total failure probability is actually 1/10th of single disk. if they were differentiated functionally (like striping), the probability is 10x greater) |
| 15:56.07 | BCMM | zleap: apt list --upgradable |
| 15:56.09 | PsynoKhi0 | zleap: use apt |
| 15:56.17 | zleap | thanks |
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| 15:56.43 | BCMM | zleap: dpkg doesn't know anything about updates, because it doesn't know anything about packages that aren't installed on your machine right now |
| 15:57.12 | BCMM | dpkg can just install and uninstall packages - it's apt that fetches them from the internet |
| 15:57.12 | dpkg | BCMM: You are person #1 to send an unparseable request |
| 15:57.34 | BCMM | dpkg: this is entirely your fault. |
| 15:57.34 | dpkg | BCMM: what are you talking about? |
| 15:57.37 | PsynoKhi0 | blackflow: ok... though it becomes a matter of balance IMO, I tend to think "at least 2 at most 3" if that makes any sense |
| 15:58.34 | PsynoKhi0 | for redundancy, for example |
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| 15:59.12 | casualnewbie | PsynoKhi0, what should I look for in dmesg ? |
| 15:59.24 | PsynoKhi0 | I can't bring myself to being overreliant on one supplier |
| 15:59.50 | PsynoKhi0 | casualnewbie: not sure... try "dmesg | grep "K2000\|K40" |
| 16:00.16 | PsynoKhi0 | I'm more of a radeon guy so... |
| 16:00.49 | casualnewbie | I have strange line |
| 16:00.49 | casualnewbie | [ 12.479287] NVRM: This PCI I/O region assigned to your NVIDIA device is invalid: |
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| 16:01.51 | PsynoKhi0 | casualnewbie: I think pasting should be done elsewhere (#flood) as per the channel's guidelines |
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| 16:02.51 | casualnewbie | I am sorry for that, never used IRC before. Will try to follow guidelines |
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| 16:03.21 | PsynoKhi0 | or use pastebin and paste only the URL here |
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| 16:03.53 | PsynoKhi0 | https://pastebin.com/ |
| 16:04.27 | PsynoKhi0 | save the URL in a text file so you can even refer to it elsewhere |
| 16:04.51 | PsynoKhi0 | (I might be telling you obvious stuff but...) |
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| 16:07.23 | casualnewbie | OK |
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| 16:08.05 | petn-randall | One line is fine, if you have more than 2, please use a paste site, yes. |
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| 16:15.07 | casualnewbie | I think I understood what is wrong.... Thanks for the help ! |
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| 16:16.47 | LtL | PsynoKhi0: please don't recommend pastebin.com, its terrible, use https://paste.debian.net/ |
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| 16:18.30 | paradigm | Hi! Debian Testing/Sid's version of libglib2.0-0 includes a bug that's hitting me pretty hard. I've worked with the glib folks to fix it, and they kicked out a new release. Is there something I can do to prompt the Debian folks to update it? Should I be concerned about the possibility of the current, broken version being frozen for Buster? |
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| 16:21.45 | petn-randall | !debian-next |
| 16:21.45 | dpkg | #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. |
| 16:21.53 | n4dir | if there is a bug report, give the info in that bug report. If there isn't, file one. |
| 16:21.58 | petn-randall | paradigm: Feel free to ask in the testing support channel above. ^^^ |
| 16:22.15 | paradigm | Will do, thanks! |
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| 16:24.32 | nsrafk | Is there an easy way to mail (or send another way) a backupfile (tar) from a shell to myself? |
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| 16:26.47 | Spec | how big of a file? |
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| 16:28.23 | PsynoKhi0 | off to something else, have a nice one! |
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| 16:31.49 | nsrafk | <5mb |
| 16:31.49 | nsrafk | :D |
| 16:31.56 | bindi | millibits |
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| 16:59.10 | nsrafk | hmm i figured i can just use scp from mac as well |
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| 18:28.25 | vegenaise | hi #debian. is there a basic terminal word processor like nano or pico etc that does word wrap? so i don't have to it enter every line before the text goes past the window? |
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| 18:30.00 | nkuttler | vim.. |
| 18:30.14 | nkuttler | fmt |
| 18:30.52 | vegenaise | fmt? |
| 18:31.09 | nkuttler | man fmt |
| 18:31.40 | vegenaise | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:31.42 | BCMM | vegenaise: what do you mean about "before the text goes past the window"? |
| 18:32.13 | LtL | vegenaise: for nano edit /etc/nanorc un-comment set nowrap |
| 18:32.13 | BCMM | vegenaise: you do realise that the start of that long line you entered in Nano is still there, just scrolled off the screen, right? |
| 18:32.39 | vegenaise | BCMM, yes i do i just want it to look uniform and not have to scroll over to see what i wrote |
| 18:32.49 | xand | vegenaise: neither are for word processing |
| 18:32.57 | vegenaise | i am aware |
| 18:33.21 | nkuttler | i prefer to format my text how i want it, not to trick the editor into displaying it like that |
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| 18:33.45 | vegenaise | heh to each their own nkuttler :) |
| 18:34.12 | BCMM | vegenaise: what sort of thing are you writing? source code? paragraphs of natural language? |
| 18:34.35 | vegenaise | thank you for that tip LtL. i will try that first as i am now comfortable using nano |
| 18:34.37 | nkuttler | i don't like people who send me emails that are 1000 chars wide.. |
| 18:35.08 | vegenaise | BCMM, journaling mostly. writing paragraphs in natural language. |
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| 18:36.24 | BCMM | vegenaise: anyway, look at the output of `man nano` (search for "wrap"). i *think* `nano -$` is what you want |
| 18:36.43 | Deihmos | i just installed debian. not too familiar with linux. |
| 18:36.58 | Deihmos | debian does not have sudo so what is used instead? su? |
| 18:37.29 | xand | it has sudo if you install it |
| 18:37.33 | BCMM | Deihmos: su should be there. you can install sudo if you want it |
| 18:37.46 | BCMM | (also i think if you choose not to set a root password during installation, sudo gets installed?) |
| 18:38.20 | Deihmos | i see |
| 18:38.28 | vegenaise | thank you BCMM i will do that :) |
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| 18:38.42 | Deihmos | debian seems more light weight so i am thinking about it instead |
| 18:39.21 | nkuttler | Deihmos: debian pretty much leaves it to you how to set up the system. if you want it, you can make a bloated install |
| 18:40.13 | Deihmos | the debian website is a bit weird. hard to find the downloads |
| 18:40.20 | Deihmos | i downloaded a 300mb file |
| 18:40.50 | petn-randall | !light weight |
| 18:40.50 | dpkg | <mjg59> To a first approximation, when someone says "Lightweight" what they mean is "I don't understand the problems that the alternative solves". (http://mjg59.livejournal.com/136274.html) |
| 18:40.52 | petn-randall | :) |
| 18:40.53 | nkuttler | the download link is at the top right.. |
| 18:41.13 | xand | Deihmos: it's the netinstall image |
| 18:41.26 | xand | Deihmos: it'll download packages during install |
| 18:41.31 | petn-randall | Debian can be "lightweight", but it depends entirely on what you install on it. |
| 18:41.58 | G3ph4z | Hi Guys, I have one word in file and I have to replace it with a certificate. I tried with sed, but its failed because many special characters in certificate. |
| 18:42.45 | G3ph4z | Can anyone help with it? I would be grateful. |
| 18:43.18 | BCMM | that's a kind of weird factoid |
| 18:43.37 | BCMM | most of the factoids i've seen seem to be, like, principles that are generally agreed on |
| 18:43.57 | BCMM | but that's just somebody's rather controversial opinion (with a few total misunderstandings thrown in) |
| 18:44.11 | petn-randall | BCMM: There are also lots of factoids that are more light-hearted at nature, and not necessarily universally true. |
| 18:44.43 | BCMM | that particular blog post would work *much* better if it was "light-hearted" |
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| 18:59.18 | jhutchins | BCMM: I think it's fairly accurate. It's like "is Debian secure". |
| 18:59.45 | jhutchins | BCMM: It really shows that the person asking doesn't understand their own question. |
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| 19:02.58 | rwp | G3ph4z, That is a somewhat vague problem description. If you want to replace a file with a certificate then is there any reason not to just "cp certificatefile targetfile" since that will do exactly what you wanted? |
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| 19:03.32 | G3ph4z | rwp, Not exactly, I want to change a word in a config file with a certificate. |
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| 19:04.11 | rwp | When I think of certificate I think of something used by an https server (nginx, apache) or imap (dovecot) and certificates are always full files. |
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| 19:06.07 | rwp | G3ph4z, In any case if you want to use sed for that then use the 'r' command to read a file. Something like: sed '/PATTERN/rFILENAME' infile |
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| 19:07.11 | rwp | Anything more would need more specific information about what is happening. |
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| 19:24.08 | Dyl0n | Hi all |
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| 19:28.59 | Deihmos | is it standard for debian to bring up the grub screen at boot when there is no other OS |
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| 19:30.16 | petn-randall | Deihmos: yes |
| 19:30.28 | petn-randall | You might want to boot a different kernel. |
| 19:30.40 | petn-randall | If you don't like that, feel free to change it at /etc/default/grub. |
| 19:32.46 | Deihmos | not a big deal |
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| 19:52.50 | dmasta | hey all |
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| 20:01.27 | dmasta | I need to setup server with untrusted users to run applications in there user space with limited network seems like LXC a fair solution, any suggestion what else I can use ? |
| 20:02.36 | shtrb | qemu |
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| 20:04.28 | dmasta | shtrb, qemu will have substational preformance penality compared to LXC as far I can understand |
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| 20:04.54 | shtrb | dmasta, I'm kidding, it would make your life harder |
| 20:04.58 | shtrb | yes |
| 20:05.00 | apollo13 | but more secure |
| 20:05.26 | shtrb | dmasta, if you will not load kvm you will get slightly more separation |
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| 20:07.23 | dmasta | is it stupid if run it on google cloud ? |
| 20:07.36 | dmasta | I looked they have nested virualization |
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| 20:08.37 | apollo13 | dmasta: tendentiell perfect if you don't run untrusted stuff on your infra ;) |
| 20:10.02 | dmasta | apollo13, what do you mean dendentiell ? |
| 20:10.14 | dmasta | tendentiell* |
| 20:10.25 | apollo13 | tendentially is probably the english word |
| 20:11.04 | apollo13 | but you can just remove it and the sentence still stands |
| 20:11.18 | dmasta | this how untrusted stuff is each user will run python/Java/C++ application |
| 20:11.46 | dmasta | will or can run and modify such application |
| 20:12.01 | dmasta | I never done such setup before, seems like I am over my head lol |
| 20:12.12 | blackflow | just don't kid yourself that LXC or any container is a significant security boundary for running random untrusted executable code |
| 20:12.34 | blackflow | to make it really secure, you need to MAC the namespaced process group with SELinux or AppArmor |
| 20:12.56 | blackflow | disable module loading, seccomp filter avilable syscalls. |
| 20:13.00 | apollo13 | dmasta: what are you trying to do? become a hoster? |
| 20:13.23 | dmasta | it for a computer game |
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| 20:13.32 | dmasta | each user will be able to deploy own NPC code |
| 20:13.35 | blackflow | (and by "really secure" I mean _actually_, by not misunderstanding what LXC does -- a there's never 100% absolute security) |
| 20:14.24 | dmasta | blackflow, I do understand that 100% is only death in this reality :) |
| 20:14.41 | blackflow | and taxes, but the jury is still out on death :) |
| 20:15.05 | dmasta | haha |
| 20:15.45 | apollo13 | so what you want to do is create throw away virtual machines |
| 20:16.01 | apollo13 | preferably on a cloud so it's their problem if someone breaks out |
| 20:16.02 | dmasta | so I joking say to my self combining game with untrusted users and code on linux box, if I wanted I could not make it more complicated :) |
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| 20:16.19 | dmasta | yes, AWS or Google |
| 20:16.23 | apollo13 | fwiw https://docs.gitlab.com/runner/executors/docker_machine.html is a perfect example of what you are trying to achieve |
| 20:16.24 | dmasta | or both |
| 20:16.31 | apollo13 | CI basically has the same problem⦠|
| 20:16.39 | blackflow | also "qemu will have substational preformance penality compared to LXC" -- not really with kvm. the penalty is not in performance, but in memory compartmentalization as you have to assign it up front per VM |
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| 20:17.09 | apollo13 | actually there should be an example on how to configure gitlab runner to create vms in DO per job |
| 20:17.29 | dmasta | well that makes things simple |
| 20:17.46 | dmasta | I feel a bit stupid why I did not think about docker heh |
| 20:17.56 | apollo13 | docker doesn't make things simple |
| 20:18.02 | apollo13 | it is as insecure as lxc |
| 20:18.18 | apollo13 | hence gitlab launches complete virtual machines for every job |
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| 20:18.45 | dmasta | problem is sharing single virtual machine with multiple users |
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| 20:18.58 | apollo13 | you are not supposed to share the stupid VM |
| 20:19.01 | apollo13 | one VM per user |
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| 20:20.41 | blackflow | if you wanna stick with "contaienrs", you don't even need docker, you can set up systemd service template and run it easily for any number of user. there's filesystem namespacing with ProtectSystem, seccomp filtering, and you can assign selinux/apparmor profiles even |
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| 20:21.14 | apollo13 | till someone breaks out |
| 20:21.27 | blackflow | yes, but that would affect docker as well -- containers are just namespaces |
| 20:21.46 | apollo13 | yes, hence me comparing docker with lxc above, same problems, all containers⦠|
| 20:21.56 | apollo13 | I mean it's not like a vm is 100% secure, but still |
| 20:21.58 | blackflow | mind you, not even VMs are secure there. plenty of host-affecting vulns this past year, for qemu |
| 20:22.22 | blackflow | apollo13: yeah :) |
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| 20:22.34 | apollo13 | yeah, but I prefer a VM where a breakout is not my problem (cloud) over containers breakouts that affect my machine |
| 20:22.51 | apollo13 | though one interesting approach would be a throw away k8s cluster and launch the jobs there |
| 20:23.01 | blackflow | personally, I'd trust selinux or apparmor quite a bit in this case. when you accept it can never be 100%, running a carefully carved MAC policy is significantly better. |
| 20:23.17 | dmasta | apollo13, what do you k8s ? |
| 20:23.24 | apollo13 | kubernetes |
| 20:23.52 | apollo13 | blackflow: getting a selinux policy right is hard though :D |
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| 20:24.42 | blackflow | well, true. it's much easier when you confine it all under a directory, you don't need to write complex interactions wiht other parts of hte system and there's no context transition |
| 20:25.12 | blackflow | that + seccomp + being unable to load kernel modules makes it very very hard to break out. you'd need a serious in-kernel RCE to do that. |
| 20:25.12 | D1rT3M0nE | Evening fun-seekers, has anyone encountered mic problems specific to skype? The native drivers don't seen to wanna play nice with skype - it only seems to pick up static (mic works fine otherwise) and I'm at a loss at how to troubleshoot. |
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| 20:26.23 | dmasta | about that, it only allowed to run single process app, network access only to signle specific host:port, I thought even to use network attached storage on another machine as idea |
| 20:26.52 | dmasta | linux untrusted user does not need to have full access to box like via ssh as example |
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| 20:32.30 | dmasta | what if user only can edit part of dockers startup file and provide source binary for app |
| 20:32.53 | dmasta | upload it on gitlab for example, I parse them and run in cloud ? |
| 20:34.00 | blackflow | dmasta: if I were doing that (NPC scripting) -- I'd use a domain specific language or even better base it around LUA, and let the users upload only such LUA scripts and any non-executale resources, through a web GUI. No machine executable code, ever. no ability to run anything on the CPU that's not trhough your LUA interpreted DSL |
| 20:34.24 | dmasta | nah, not going to work in my case |
| 20:34.34 | shtrb | dmasta, remember spectra and meltdown - don't let anyone in |
| 20:35.05 | blackflow | well, if spectre and meltdown are an issue, then you wouldn't run it in a public cloud to begin with, right? :) |
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| 20:35.37 | dmasta | I need resonable solution it not like national security information storage system :) |
| 20:35.42 | shtrb | maybe he is not aware that there is nothing trully secure ? and that he need to select his threat model and to how to act on that ? |
| 20:35.44 | dmasta | it a computer game :) |
| 20:35.56 | dmasta | it is* |
| 20:36.14 | shtrb | Prepare your threat model, what will happen if your security is breached and judge up on it |
| 20:36.32 | dmasta | shutdown part of cloud restart game play |
| 20:36.51 | dmasta | lots of hate on forums if happens a lot will lose players most likely |
| 20:37.08 | shtrb | dmasta, what happen if someone start to mine coins or use it as his gateway for a vpn ? |
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| 20:38.06 | blackflow | a partyvan would pay them a visit! |
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| 20:38.33 | dmasta | minecoins easy to detect, about VPN I thought to limit network access via iptables |
| 20:38.37 | shtrb | dmasta, would get to meet skooby and shaggy. |
| 20:40.00 | dmasta | this is complicated setup heh |
| 20:40.46 | dmasta | also user app process is very limited |
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| 20:41.24 | dmasta | it seems like I will have clear syslog pattern of using app for intended porpuses |
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| 20:43.14 | t3st3r | blackflow> whatever, container or VM is order of magnitude easier to set up compared to SELinux/apparmor. An if h40rz pwn kernel, who cares if it would be container or SELinux disabled? |
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| 20:45.00 | blackbit | hi. is there a way to display only a certain 'field' of the `apt-cache show` (or an equivalent command) output like 'Description-en' without fiddling with grep/sed/awk/perl? |
| 20:45.37 | dmasta | option a is nested VM instances in google cloud, option b is scripted container |
| 20:46.14 | n4dir | blackbit: i sure never heard of it. |
| 20:46.15 | dmasta | option a 10% overhead for CPU usega, optiom b complicated to setup and less secure arguably |
| 20:46.37 | dmasta | I don't like my options |
| 20:46.50 | Tenkawa | blackbit: there might be with dpkg itself |
| 20:47.28 | blackflow | t3st3r: your argument is not unlike saying no need to lock front doors, if thieves can pick locks |
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| 20:54.42 | blackbit | n4dir: Tenkawa: seems like this works, but only for installed packages $ dpkg-query --show --showformat '${Description}\n' acl |
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| 20:54.56 | blackbit | i'd like to have the same also for not installed packages |
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| 20:56.28 | Tenkawa | ahh |
| 20:56.50 | Tenkawa | yeah i've always had to awk/sed that |
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| 20:58.09 | Tenkawa | however i havent spent too much time looking into the datasource |
| 20:59.30 | t3st3r | blackflow> no, my argument is that containers and VMs achieve comparable goal by far easier means. Just that. |
| 21:00.21 | t3st3r | SELinux and so on look weird to me. Takes plenty of efforts to set up, yet any sane exploit disables it at once. |
| 21:01.06 | n4dir | blackbit: cool stuff, good info. Gotta say that in all those years i hardly ran in dpkg* instead of (say) apt-cache (my fault, of course) |
| 21:01.07 | blackflow | t3st3r: well that's false. RH and derivatives have SELinux policies for containers and VMs precisely becasue containers are not a security boundary, they're just namespaces. |
| 21:01.08 | t3st3r | And when it takes almost zero efforts for attacker and plenty of efforts for defender I think it kinda unfortunate. |
| 21:01.25 | blackflow | t3st3r: if YOU don't wanna bother, that's perfectly fine. just don't generalize please. |
| 21:01.45 | t3st3r | RH got plenty of pointless crap on board, SELinux isn't worst of them. Maybe its why I use Debian... |
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| 21:02.10 | blackflow | t3st3r: which is perfectly valid CHOICE of yours. which doesn't render the technology any less usefull just because you don't feel like dealing with it. |
| 21:02.58 | t3st3r | blackflow> it has been you who generalized without bothering self to provide any meaningful arguments. Unlike you I've at least attempted to back my views. |
| 21:03.05 | blackflow | also consider that flatpak's sandboxing is a thing. and snaps use apparmor for security |
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| 21:03.30 | blackflow | sigh... |
| 21:03.38 | D1rT3M0nE | Anyone else notice that Debian doesn't play nice with Facebook? My fans spin up and performance drops when opening FB in a tab - anyone else? |
| 21:04.05 | blackflow | t3st3r: again, if YOU don't wanna mess with it, that's perfectly fine. just please don't assert falsehoods as facts. containers are not security boundaries. |
| 21:04.22 | t3st3r | blackflow> speaking for myself I'm trying to keep things hard for attackers and easy for me. Whatever, SELinux isn't like that. And apparmor is quite dodgy thing either. |
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| 21:04.55 | blackflow | t3st3r: do you know what the problem with USER_NS is and why it's considered insecure? |
| 21:04.56 | t3st3r | If you want to tell about messing things up, look, both Debian and Ubuntu screwed their apparmor to degree tor can't run plugable transport. Cool, isn't it? |
| 21:05.22 | t3st3r | Yes, I do. Linux wasn't even created with NS in mind. That's an issue. |
| 21:05.30 | blackflow | t3st3r: which doesn't render the tech any less useful. yes, I have my own apparmor profiles because stock ubuntu's suck |
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| 21:06.04 | blackflow | t3st3r: right. parts of the kernel might not be aware of it and will see uid=0 UNmapped to effective id. |
| 21:06.08 | t3st3r | Once again, usefulnes of all this apparmor and selinux crap is few assembly commands in exploit, sending them both to oblivion. Huh. |
| 21:06.21 | blackflow | and that's why MACs are useful because uid=0 means nothing to them |
| 21:06.28 | joepublic | D1rT3M0nE, the debian project does not interact with facebook. Are you using one of the many browsers available in debian to interact with facebook? |
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| 21:07.02 | blackflow | t3st3r: by all means, write such an exploit and get ton of money, Zerodium will reward you handsomely. |
| 21:07.05 | t3st3r | So both create plenty of troubles... but not to attackers, unfortunately. It like placing bear trap at your entrance and then getting caught yourself/ |
| 21:07.26 | blackflow | if you think it's a few assembly "commands", then you're a rich guy. just call Zerodium. |
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| 21:07.55 | t3st3r | blackflow> Have you ever seen any "real" exploits that face in the wild? Nearly 1st thing they do is knock out SELinux. |
| 21:08.16 | blackflow | don't waste your time armchairing here on freenode, go get the monies, man! they're paying GREATLY for such "few commands to bust a MAC" vulns! |
| 21:08.40 | blackflow | t3st3r: every software has bugs, selinux included, but it's not as easy as you make it sound. if you thin it is, monies await you! |
| 21:08.58 | t3st3r | it isn't bug in SELinux, lol. |
| 21:09.03 | blackflow | and btw most of selinux vulns lately have been through badly written policies, not through the mechanism itself. |
| 21:09.21 | blackflow | again, don't waste time arguing with me, go get the monies! |
| 21:09.32 | t3st3r | It's okay to use any bug to get kernel side. Then it takes mere few commands to get rid of SELinux. And kernel is pretty big thing. |
| 21:09.51 | blackflow | no, not any bug. |
| 21:10.04 | blackflow | you need a specific class of bugs to do that. |
| 21:10.48 | t3st3r | Any. Once kernel is breached, it is not a big deal if there is SELinux or not. |
| 21:10.51 | blackflow | you're making it sound like it's a piece of cake but your whole house of cards rests on that FIRST premise which is rather extremely important and rather hard to do on properly securred systems: get the kernel to exec any random code in ring0 |
| 21:11.58 | t3st3r | SElinux has been created by NSA, who are inclined on formal crap. SELinux fills their bill for formal policies. They're surely staffed and funded enough to be able to afford all that. |
| 21:12.15 | blackflow | ho-kay, tinfoil hat time. we're done here, kid. |
| 21:13.16 | t3st3r | I have rather bad news for you: Linux is plenty of code, running at what you call ring 0 (btw there're cpus other than x86, that do not name it like this). |
| 21:13.34 | blackflow | yes, vulnerabilities are abound. but not all of them are equal. |
| 21:13.45 | t3st3r | This code gets plenty of bugs and things like spectre/meltdown/rowhammer/etc make it even more fun, etc. |
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| 21:14.43 | t3st3r | Furthermore, SELinux/apparmor wouldn't help vs, say, recent apt vuln. On other hand VM would confine damage to self. Well, ideally. |
| 21:14.53 | blackflow | for example. CVE-2019-5489 is something I landed my finger on. a kernel vuln. you cannot use to to shut down SELinux. |
| 21:15.15 | blackflow | so yeah, not _any_ bug. you need a specific class of bugs. and like I said, if you know of any, Zerodium will pay greatly. |
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| 21:16.14 | t3st3r | once again, for me it's enough I've seen exploits disabling SELinux & sometimes apparmor to not really rely on that. |
| 21:16.20 | nuxil | hi |
| 21:16.27 | blackflow | t3st3r: selinux/apparmor wouldn't help with that last apt bug because the apt action is of HIGHEST privilege (short of modifying kernel itself by loading a module): it installs files on the system at arbitrary locations. |
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| 21:16.42 | blackflow | you know what else selinux wouldn't help with? someone walking over with a gun and demanding your passwrod. |
| 21:16.58 | t3st3r | blackflow> maybe you failed to get idea but I can scrap damaged VM and try again... |
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| 21:17.26 | t3st3r | and all this takes very modest efforts unlike SELinux tantrum |
| 21:17.30 | blackflow | t3st3r: maybe not. see, that apt vuln could've loaded a trojan that would affect the host through a secondary qemu vuln. |
| 21:17.33 | blackflow | by your logic. |
| 21:18.00 | t3st3r | Its valid concern. Since hypervisors aren't perfect either. |
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| 21:18.21 | blackflow | but uh, this is really offtopic, weirdly nobody warned us. feel free not to use selinux or apparmor if you don't like them, but that's all there is to it -- your personal choice. |
| 21:18.36 | t3st3r | maybe we should go #debian-offtopic with it? |
| 21:18.53 | D1rT3M0nE | <joepublic> What? I'm not a naive Facebook user. What are you, the Galactic Empire? |
| 21:19.32 | SlidingHorn | D1rT3M0nE: the point is that Debian itself has nothing to do with how Facebook behaves in your browser of choice. |
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| 21:19.54 | t3st3r | as for guns and passwords... well, I can't remember long encryption keys. Not even with help of gun. And in case of emergency I would just ensure no keys remains. |
| 21:20.21 | nuxil | I have two ssd disks setup raid 0 what uses ntfs/windows. i need to access some files. How do i go about mounting these raid disk in linux, |
| 21:20.48 | nuxil | i was told to look in /dev/mapper for them. but there is only one dir there called controls. |
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| 21:21.06 | nuxil | i also have ntfs-3g installed. |
| 21:21.54 | nuxil | i see them in fdisk. but im no sure what to do with mount command. |
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| 21:23.34 | nuxil | im guessing im missing some kernel stuff perhaps ? |
| 21:23.37 | D1rT3M0nE | SlidingHorn: I get that, but if Facebook is bogging down my laptop, it makes me wonder about what kind of dodgy analytics they're trying to capture. Does that not interest anyone else? |
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| 21:25.34 | coltkirk | fb wants to peak through your webcam to get their jollies off |
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| 21:25.40 | EdePopede | D1rT3M0nE: or their code is just simply bloated |
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| 21:27.15 | coltkirk | facebook wrote a prog lang called 'hack' lol |
| 21:27.24 | coltkirk | it must be for hackers |
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| 21:29.28 | D1rT3M0nE | EdePopede: maybe also. I mean, they're definitely working on mad analytics though. Zuck's definitely convinced he's building a hive mind. :) |
| 21:29.44 | coltkirk | oh hack lang comes with the Hip Hop Virtual Machine, how fitting |
| 21:29.55 | EdePopede | ouch that hurts :D |
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| 21:30.57 | shtrb | nuxil, did you mount it , or see anything related to it ? |
| 21:31.16 | SlidingHorn | D1rT3M0nE: it's no surprise to anyone that facebook is incredibly shady and data-hungry. Not really a topic for this channel, however. |
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| 21:32.09 | n4dir | D1rT3M0nE: wiki.debian.org "leaving the cloud" |
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| 21:32.12 | shtrb | nuxil, check if you have something in dmesg. also the FS be dirty so you need to manually clean it (ntfsfix If I remember corrcetly) |
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| 21:34.33 | D1rT3M0nE | Fair enough. |
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| 21:44.19 | Deihmos | anyone know how to activate contrib repo? |
| 21:44.38 | Deihmos | instructions provide no instructions. trying to install sabnzbd |
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| 21:46.21 | jmcnaught | Deihmos: you edit /etc/apt/sources.list. This wiki page has examples: https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList#Example_sources.list and then after you change that file run "apt update" |
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| 21:52.32 | IniGit | hi |
| 21:52.34 | IniGit | how can I label luks containers? |
| 21:52.41 | IniGit | I tried the following, but it does not work: |
| 21:52.44 | IniGit | sudo cryptsetup config /dev/sdi --label=TestLUKS |
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| 22:04.14 | finlstrm | IniGit: give this a shot - https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-partition-howto-set-labels/ |
| 22:04.41 | rant | there obviously isnt a partition table |
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| 22:05.07 | rant | either that or the problem is them not specifying a partition |
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| 22:12.57 | IniGit | finlstrm: This does not work on LUKS containers |
| 22:12.57 | l0rd_hex | hi all, is it possible to install syslinux instead of grub2 during the initial debian install? (I'm using the netinst ISO) |
| 22:13.24 | IniGit | finlstrm: Itseems like luks2 is required in order to use --label, but I'm not sure if this is already stable |
| 22:13.56 | IniGit | finlstrm: So I'll not use label. I will check my udev rules in order to find the partition that I want to mount |
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| 22:20.44 | rant | you're suppose to use the UUID of the container in mtab |
| 22:20.48 | rant | erm crypttab |
| 22:21.06 | soda__hobart | hi everybody, my Debian partition is running low on disk space. The Debian partition is formatted as ext4 at /dev/sda6. I have another linux distro (Mint) installed on another ext4 partition at /dev/sda6. I don't use this one nor do I have any data on this partition, so I want to clear it and add that space to the partition where I have Debian. What is the best way to do this? They share a swap partition at /dev/sda7. |
| 22:22.06 | rant | soda__hobart: /dev/sda6 is the same partition as /dev/sda6 |
| 22:22.33 | soda__hobart | rant: oh, sorry the Debian install is on /dev/sda5 |
| 22:23.13 | l0rd_hex | soda__hobart: something like partitionmagic should help |
| 22:23.19 | petn-randall | soda__hobart: You could delete sda6, and extend the partition sda5 to the whole space, then extend the ext4 filesystem to encompass all space. |
| 22:23.28 | l0rd_hex | yup |
| 22:23.42 | petn-randall | soda__hobart: Make sure to make backups before attempting this though, if you screw up the data might be gone. |
| 22:23.48 | soda__hobart | ok, so just delete the partition I don't want, and then add the unallocated space to the partition I want to keep? |
| 22:23.49 | rant | soda__hobart: download https://partedmagic.com/ and just use gparted to remove the one partition and grow the other |
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| 22:24.23 | l0rd_hex | make sure you backup sda5 though |
| 22:24.23 | rant | soda__hobart: it will drastically simplify the process using a GUI while both FS are offline |
| 22:24.28 | l0rd_hex | just incase |
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| 22:25.53 | soda__hobart | yeah, I just did a backup a few weeks ago when I upgraded to Debian Buster/Sid so I'm good there |
| 22:26.09 | rant | @.@ |
| 22:26.51 | l0rd_hex | I _highly_ recommend you wear a hat while repartitioning as well |
| 22:27.21 | rant | one with a propeller on it |
| 22:27.45 | soda__hobart | I never leave the house, but if I did, I would definitely wear the tin foil hat that I wear all the time inside the house. |
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| 22:31.35 | soda__hobart | I can expand the size of the Debian partition while it is mounted, right? |
| 22:33.18 | l0rd_hex | soda__hobart: you can but it's probably easier just to use the liveCD rant mentioned |
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| 22:33.59 | rant | ext4 supports online resize.. but the cli progs can be a bit confusing.. gparted will do it all for you by merely cliking and dragging |
| 22:34.13 | petn-randall | soda__hobart: You can expand the *filesystem*, but you need to change the partition layout first, and that doesn't work online. |
| 22:34.16 | rant | and it would arguably be safer to do while both FS are offline |
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| 22:35.42 | at0m | soda__hobart: also, check man resize2fs |
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| 22:36.24 | petn-randall | soda__hobart: I'd take a current backup, unless you're willing to loose weeks of data. |
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| 22:39.40 | soda__hobart | yeah, I'm reading the gparted docs and the partedmagic docs now, and I suppose I will do a backup--related to that, is there a good way to take a system snapshot in Debian? Most of my files and work are already backed up remotely, but I'd like to save stuff like my keyboard shortcuts and whatnot. |
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| 22:40.14 | rant | soda__hobart: thats all in your homedir |
| 22:40.22 | petn-randall | soda__hobart: They're all saved in your homedir, so just backup that. |
| 22:40.39 | rant | tar it up, use any compression you like |
| 22:40.57 | at0m | soda__hobart: and bleachbit can help wipe caches and temp files, decreassing backup size |
| 22:41.22 | petn-randall | soda__hobart: If you ever happen to reinstall, I recommend you read up on LVM; it let's you create partition snapshots which makes making consistent backups much easier. |
| 22:41.40 | rant | also makes resizing simpler |
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| 22:41.53 | petn-randall | That, too. |
| 22:41.55 | at0m | soda__hobart: your personal settings are in ~/.* |
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| 22:42.18 | at0m | dotfiles and dotdirs, if the latter is even a word =) |
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| 22:48.20 | soda__hobart | nice, I am re-installing on my desktop machine soon, so I will look into LVM for that. Is there anything that keeps track of the software and dependencies installed? |
| 22:49.31 | petn-randall | soda__hobart: You can export and import your installed package list via apt. |
| 22:51.30 | soda__hobart | petn-randall: oh cool, thanks |
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| 23:03.39 | EdePopede | i could just need a bit of a big picture right now. apt-cache shows me 2 available versions of nginx: 1.10.3-1+deb9u2 and deb9u1. apt-get -s install prefers u2. judd has u1 in stretch, u2 in proposed-updates and security. |
| 23:04.03 | EdePopede | so 1) what's the logic behind it and 2) how do i get more info locally? |
| 23:04.33 | petn-randall | ,v nginx |
| 23:04.34 | judd | Package: nginx on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.2.1-2.2+wheezy4; wheezy-security: 1.2.1-2.2+wheezy4+deb7u1; jessie: 1.6.2-5+deb8u5; sid: 1.10.1-1; jessie-backports: 1.10.3-1+deb9u1~bpo8+2; stretch: 1.10.3-1+deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 1.10.3-1+deb9u2; stretch-security: 1.10.3-1+deb9u2; stretch-backports: 1.13.3-1~bpo9+1; stretch-backports: 1.14.0-1~bpo9+1; stretch-backports: |
| 23:04.35 | judd | 1.14.1-1~bpo9+1; buster: 1.14.2-2; sid: 1.14.2-2 |
| 23:05.15 | rant | EdePopede: you have the stretch version and the security update available |
| 23:05.28 | petn-randall | EdePopede: `apt-cache policy nginx` will show you which package will be preferred during installation, and where they come from. u2 is from stretch-security, btw. |
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| 23:06.56 | EdePopede | i'm afraid i'm gonna develop a migraine over debian's software management, there are simply too many tools to remember |
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| 23:07.19 | EdePopede | and they all have too many commands |
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| 23:07.56 | rant | EdePopede: you realize they invented the apt command which pretty much does it all, right? |
| 23:08.19 | EdePopede | i used it *once* and then it didn't keep the deb :( |
| 23:08.22 | frikinz | It's way easier that other distro IMO. But you don't learn things in a week. |
| 23:09.08 | EdePopede | week? i try to memorize those things for MONTH now, before the upgrade i stayed with aptitude's ui mostly to keep it easy |
| 23:09.20 | rant | yeah.. its annoying like that.. does a lot of stuff automatically |
| 23:10.17 | EdePopede | but it feels like when i tried to get through bertrand russel's book where he mentions a new philosopher or some long forgotten city on every bloody page :| |
| 23:10.23 | frikinz | I used apt a lot then aptitude a lot but yeah, it had phases were it would do too many things ... like proposing you to uninstall the package you just requested to install XD |
| 23:11.01 | rant | could be worse.. Long Walk To Freedom had some african word every 3rd word.. |
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| 23:11.33 | EdePopede | my problem with bare cli is that i can't go with just text output floating by. mc instead of ls/rm/mv/mkdir and such things.... |
| 23:11.35 | petn-randall | EdePopede: It helps taking notes if you can't easily remember commands / parameters and stuff. |
| 23:11.50 | petn-randall | EdePopede: I do it for a lot of things I only touch once or twice a year. |
| 23:12.21 | EdePopede | petn-randall: that's the thing atm, i try to rearrange this thing, some cli fed wiki or something |
| 23:12.45 | EdePopede | and i always have been on war with names of any kind |
| 23:12.59 | rant | are you familiar with apropos? |
| 23:13.10 | EdePopede | imagine your brain filled up with stacks of boxes with no label on them |
| 23:13.23 | frikinz | Is that for professional or personnal projects? |
| 23:13.37 | EdePopede | rant: that's the opposite approach from what i've need :/ |
| 23:14.17 | EdePopede | frikinz: atm only for arranging stuff. taking notes. making those little cards. putting them into some context |
| 23:15.23 | EdePopede | i tried to manage a tree of markdown files with make, compiling them and putting them into the doctree, but meh |
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| 23:16.11 | EdePopede | and i tried some wikis in the past, but don't ask me... for their names |
| 23:17.22 | EdePopede | and i really prefer to do it in the shell, have a script around the editor, save, leave, and then a quick upgrade. |
| 23:18.17 | frikinz | notes are nice for things you don't do often or which are very obscure but practice is important. and reading docs, manpages. |
| 23:18.35 | EdePopede | actually i was only trying to see the tags for a webserver to get a list of options then |
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| 23:20.20 | frikinz | Don't be too impatient also. It's not just point and click. Go progressively. |
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| 23:21.12 | EdePopede | frikinz: i never used a shell but bash on a regular base. sure, i looked into zsh, csh years ago. but what did i try recently to avoid an arbitrary variable for read? i tried using $_. took me some time to remember that in bash it was $REPLY. names, remember? |
| 23:21.52 | EdePopede | frikinz: the boxes, remember? that's f'n annoying after all these years. |
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| 23:23.30 | EdePopede | and man pages... like nginx has "Tag: implemented-in::c, interface::daemon, network::server, network::service, protocol::http, role::program, use::proxying" |
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| 23:23.52 | EdePopede | and now "man debtags" for the 180th time to look up for the syntax |
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| 23:24.27 | jmcnaught | I reread man pages all the time. Sometimes just knowing where to look is enough. |
| 23:24.56 | rant | which is what apropos is for :P |
| 23:25.06 | frikinz | I use debtags once a year so that'd be a candidate for notes :) not sure I wouldn't classify these as obscure. Like a bit :) |
| 23:25.27 | rant | and what I do is write my own wrappers and scripts for shit I know I wont remember |
| 23:25.58 | rant | then I have something I created that works in a way that makes sense to me.. |
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| 23:26.32 | rant | when I hit a limitation of that, IT becomes my reference |
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| 23:27.19 | jmcnaught | EdePopede: you might like ikiwiki, it's a lot like what you described of keeping a tree of markdown files and compiling them |
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| 23:27.59 | EdePopede | jmcnaught: now that you mentioned it, iki is one of those i did use in the past |
| 23:28.08 | frikinz | I use cherrytree but its so looking like 80s and not easily convertible. |
| 23:28.10 | EdePopede | nope: debtags cat 'network::server && protocol::http && role::program' |
| 23:28.52 | EdePopede | i used cherrytree for some time, but i really prefer some file based approach |
| 23:29.19 | EdePopede | i tend to reorganize things sometimes and i live in mc :> |
| 23:29.20 | frikinz | Yeah but I have several hundreds by now. What a mess |
| 23:30.02 | EdePopede | this one: debtags search 'network::server && protocol::http && role::program' |
| 23:30.58 | frikinz | I live in ranger or just zsh |
| 23:31.09 | frikinz | anyway, back to discoverying redmine installation |
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| 23:31.35 | frikinz | o/ good luck ;p |
| 23:31.53 | EdePopede | thanks for you too |
| 23:32.32 | EdePopede | rant: guess what my problem with wrapper scripts (or functions) is |
| 23:34.15 | EdePopede | really have to read that one https://book.dpmb.org/ |
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| 23:34.37 | joepublic | Instead of writing wrappers, I usually write a script whose name I will probably try first that tells me what to actually do |
| 23:34.49 | joepublic | years of writing wrappers, I didn't learn much |
| 23:35.06 | EdePopede | the perfect approach for me, one topic in depth |
| 23:35.10 | rant | ffmpeg is one that was way too damn complicated for me.. so I wrote a wrapper script with defaults for it |
| 23:36.33 | EdePopede | find-a-name-for-your-wrapper-mini-HOWTO |
| 23:36.39 | EdePopede | problem #1 |
| 23:37.16 | rant | heh.. I often have issues with naming things.. even vars when programming |
| 23:37.18 | bites | <command>-wrapper#.sh |
| 23:37.23 | EdePopede | and then after 2 weeks i usually have to look into .bash_aliases or /usr/local/bin (being the only user here) |
| 23:37.23 | bites | zsh has better completion than bash. <command> -<tab> shows a list of options with description for example. it helps a bit. |
| 23:37.48 | EdePopede | youtube-dl has such a file for bash |
| 23:37.52 | rant | I was for awhile writing my scripts with my own style headers showing their function and the dependencies |
| 23:38.04 | rant | but that practice fell out of style |
| 23:38.26 | EdePopede | something like javadoc? hmm... |
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| 23:39.00 | EdePopede | have a script parsing your wrappers in the bin and doing something like apropos for them |
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| 23:39.26 | rant | one issue I have with naming vars is that I like things to make sense literally if I have an array of things I don't like to call it things because things[1] doesn't make sense like thing[1] does |
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| 23:39.47 | rant | but then iterating over thing when its things.. |
| 23:39.53 | rant | heh |
| 23:40.05 | EdePopede | with thing from things do |
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| 23:40.08 | EdePopede | or so ;) |
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| 23:41.06 | rant | cause years ago I got to just using alphabetical vars to avoid fretting over the names but then following wth was going on got confusing |
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| 23:42.59 | EdePopede | just imagine you'd had to do it in MUMPS |
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