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| 00:08.23 | WoC | can someone confirm this is a real 64 bit release; https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/10.0/ppc64/iso-cd/debian-10.0-ppc64-NETINST-1.iso ? |
| 00:09.17 | abrotman | real in what way? |
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| 00:09.44 | WoC | as opposed to a 32 bit release and if it's an actual release |
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| 00:10.30 | abrotman | https://www.debian.org/ports/ |
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| 00:10.57 | abrotman | there is a PPC channel on OFTC I believe |
| 00:11.31 | abrotman | but, that doesn't seem an official release, but a port that was/is being worked on |
| 00:11.51 | abrotman | dpkg: tell WoC about ppc64 |
| 00:12.02 | abrotman | dpkg: tell woc about ppc |
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| 00:14.30 | WoC | ok, ty. just wish i could find any info about that specific iso, as to which bootloader and to make sure userland is 64 bit |
| 00:14.55 | abrotman | WoC: the PPC channel would be your best bet |
| 00:15.02 | WoC | just burn and pray then |
| 00:15.17 | WoC | it is hibernated |
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| 00:15.47 | abrotman | WoC: ? |
| 00:16.06 | abrotman | there are 20 people on #debianppc on this network, and 15 people on #debianppc on irc.oftc.net |
| 00:17.45 | abrotman | WoC: also, there sohuld be docs somewhere .. |
| 00:18.11 | WoC | k, i try oftc |
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| 00:37.28 | InvisibleRasta | http://dpaste.com/2JSPJ7X hello, ho w can i solve this missing deps? |
| 00:38.48 | abrotman | Did you mix versions of Debian? |
| 00:39.05 | InvisibleRasta | no, i did a fresh install of buster tho |
| 00:39.14 | InvisibleRasta | well a bootstrap |
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| 00:40.07 | abrotman | did you do an update before you did the install? |
| 00:40.21 | InvisibleRasta | update? |
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| 00:40.31 | InvisibleRasta | i installed a new system and its updated |
| 00:41.18 | abrotman | did you run `apt update` |
| 00:41.28 | InvisibleRasta | yes |
| 00:42.42 | InvisibleRasta | deb https://deb.debian.org/debian buster main non-free contrib |
| 00:42.48 | InvisibleRasta | thats the sources list |
| 00:43.47 | InvisibleRasta | http://dpaste.com/2M6415G |
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| 00:49.35 | InvisibleRasta | abrotman: no ida? |
| 00:49.46 | InvisibleRasta | i edited my sources list but still same error |
| 00:50.14 | InvisibleRasta | http://dpaste.com/3X0CB9M |
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| 01:18.27 | WoC | anyone had issues with wayland and virtualbox ? |
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| 04:04.03 | iarfen | hi! |
| 04:04.49 | iarfen | under debian, cmake creates the makefile to install by default under /usr/local instead of under /usr, I should change that? |
| 04:06.00 | annadane | my impression is no, the default is fine unless you have a specific reason |
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| 04:11.42 | annadane | iarfen, "man hier" |
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| 05:06.46 | WoC | elinks ;] |
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| 06:33.24 | annadane | can you use lxc as a vm? |
| 06:34.20 | annadane | that's actually a disingenous question, what i'm really looking for is just a relatively light vm technology |
| 06:35.05 | annadane | yeah there's virtualbox i guess |
| 06:35.25 | RoyK | annadane: kxc is way lighter |
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| 06:35.31 | RoyK | s/kxc/lxc/ |
| 06:35.50 | annadane | because AFAIK virt-manager is quite demanding |
| 06:35.54 | RoyK | kvm should be lighter than vbox as well, but not as light as lxc |
| 06:36.03 | RoyK | virt-manager is just a frontend |
| 06:36.20 | RoyK | libvirt/qemu/kvm isn't very demanding |
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| 06:36.35 | annadane | i'm not sure i've ever used virt-manager properly anyway, i just added my user to all the groups which i think is kvm-qemu libvirt kvm |
| 06:36.45 | annadane | i think that's what you're meant to though |
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| 06:37.11 | RoyK | virt-manager is run when you want to change things |
| 06:37.38 | RoyK | that is - you can use the virsh command to do the same thing and a lot more |
| 06:37.44 | RoyK | or qeum |
| 06:37.46 | RoyK | and friends |
| 06:38.03 | annadane | right... |
| 06:38.08 | RoyK | but I prefer virt-manager for most stuff, since it's, well, simple and easy to understand |
| 06:38.10 | annadane | i just suck at understanding all the different tools |
| 06:39.22 | RoyK | a friend, Malinux here, chose to setup her home server with nothing on the host - all the services in separate VMs - it's not really a very powerful machine, but those 10-ish VMs run happily |
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| 06:41.33 | annadane | what does virt-manager use by default...? |
| 06:43.12 | RoyK | annadane: whatever you tell it to ;) |
| 06:43.23 | annadane | k. |
| 06:43.24 | RoyK | annadane: I've only used libvirt with kvm so far, though |
| 06:43.29 | annadane | i promise to get good at this eventually :P |
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| 06:43.39 | annadane | i'm just totally lost when it comes to virtualizing |
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| 06:44.18 | RoyK | annadane: just try to install libvirt and virt-manager, and kvm should be ready for use - then setup a VM or two - do some testing |
| 06:44.50 | RoyK | annadane: you may want to setup the networking on the host with briding and connect the VMs directly to the bridge to avoid NAT, but we can talk about that later |
| 06:45.14 | annadane | libvirt *and* virt-manager? what package name is libvirt under? |
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| 06:45.56 | RoyK | re-"wiring" networking on the VMs later is trivial |
| 06:46.15 | RoyK | erm - libvirt/libvirt-bin is probably pulled in when you install virt-manaager |
| 06:46.22 | RoyK | just install the latter |
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| 06:46.42 | annadane | yeah, that's what i thought |
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| 06:49.22 | annadane | i love how ridiculously long the virsh man page is compared to virt-manager |
| 06:49.34 | RoyK | hehe |
| 06:49.42 | RoyK | gotta go - talk to you later |
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| 07:30.25 | furrymcgee | annadane: kvmtool is a very simple kvm, the lkvm command runs a kernel and initrd. You can use a bridge for network. I have written some examples for different vms. Search for lkvm on https://lippydanger.jumpingcrab.com/cgit/www/html/about/QEMU.html |
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| 07:49.35 | RoyK | furrymcgee: virt-manager is probably easier for a newbie |
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| 08:12.16 | furrymcgee | RoyK: why? |
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| 08:15.37 | dutchfish | furrymcgee, what Royk probably ment is, virt-manager can handle KVM, Xen and LXC in an easy interface, while all the commandline params can be intimidating at first glance to get it going. |
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| 08:16.25 | dutchfish | furrymcgee, altho it is mostly geared towards KVM. |
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| 08:23.25 | furrymcgee | yes probably we have different view of an easy interface |
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| 08:24.26 | dutchfish | furrymcgee, well, it depends, if you have a wm on Debian and want to test things out, i like virt-manager. For a production system i use the console. |
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| 08:26.51 | dutchfish | furrymcgee, for me it comes in handy for all the test setups i have. |
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| 08:27.46 | dutchfish | furrymcgee, it has some nice monitoring tools too. |
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| 08:28.32 | dutchfish | furrymcgee, but i just logged on, so i dont know your initial question. |
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| 08:29.49 | furrymcgee | what? |
| 08:31.44 | RoyK | dutchfish: quite so, yes. If someone is new to virtualisation, a gui is often a good way to start and then, later, if necessary, dig further into what's underneath |
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| 09:17.07 | pagios | hi, i have in my conrtab -e: * 13 * * * ( /home/test/test1.sh ) && ( /home/test/test2.sh ) for some reason it does not execute every day at 1pm , any idea? |
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| 09:23.31 | grady | does mkdir understand file as a input? i have text file of directory names what i need to create |
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| 09:30.57 | diogenes_ | what flood? |
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| 09:32.03 | fpbxuser | netsplit? |
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| 09:39.41 | grady | xargs is the answer what i looked for :) |
| 09:40.01 | grady | wonderful little tool |
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| 09:45.10 | fooman2011 | Hello. I'm trying to configure vlan using nmcli. It is ok for tagged packets. But how about the untagged packets ? How to bind an interface for untagged ? On Windows it is the vlan id 0 but on debian I don't know... |
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| 09:46.31 | fooman2011 | Hello. I'm trying to configure vlan using nmcli. It is ok for tagged packets. But how about the untagged packets ? How to bind an interface for untagged ? On Windows it is the vlan id 0 but on debian I don't know... |
| 09:46.32 | fooman2011 | oops |
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| 09:58.32 | dutchfish | fooman2011, have you tried adding a link to 'your interfaces name' type vlan id 0? |
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| 09:59.42 | dutchfish | fooman2011, you may need to disable arp on that interface tho, depending on your fw rules setup. |
| 10:00.47 | dutchfish | fooman2011, so that untagged arp replies are not added to the arp table. |
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| 10:03.26 | dutchfish | fooman2011, i assume you have disabled ipv6, if not ask #ipv6 |
| 10:06.47 | fooman2011 | dutchfish: yes I have tried vlan id 0 without any success :( |
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| 10:10.10 | dutchfish | fooman2011, ip link set 'intf name' arp off (this disables all arp on the interface level) ip link set untagged arp on (needed for the untagged only) |
| 10:10.39 | dutchfish | fooman2011, tcpdump is your friend |
| 10:11.30 | dutchfish | fooman2011, you can up/down the untagged interface without killing the whole parent |
| 10:11.36 | fooman2011 | Sometime the pc is plugged on a switch that's managing vlan, and sometimes not. I would like to create all the interfaces (vlans when connected on switch and "no vlan/untagged" when no switch), and then only up/down the interfaces to use the correct combination |
| 10:12.05 | fooman2011 | depending where me pc is currently plugged |
| 10:12.07 | dutchfish | fooman2011, you like tricky problems .... mmm... ;) |
| 10:12.16 | fooman2011 | sure... :p |
| 10:12.31 | fooman2011 | on Windows there is no problem, it's vlan 0 |
| 10:12.34 | dutchfish | fooman2011, if NAP is in place on that network -> no go |
| 10:12.38 | fooman2011 | but On linux... |
| 10:13.19 | dutchfish | fooman2011, vlan 0 in linux is the same, that has nothing to do with linux, learn the osi layer |
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| 10:14.00 | fooman2011 | ok so i will retry |
| 10:14.04 | dutchfish | fooman2011, your problem is prolly firewalling and handling arp traffic |
| 10:14.47 | dutchfish | fooman2011, is this ipv4 only? |
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| 10:16.25 | fooman2011 | dutchfish: yes ipv4 only |
| 10:16.55 | dutchfish | fooman2011, ok, then make sure to disable ipv6 on your debian box, that make live alot easier for now. |
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| 10:17.34 | dutchfish | fooman2011, https://wiki.debian.org/DebianIPv6 |
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| 10:19.15 | dutchfish | fooman2011, and here the 2 methods how to disable https://www.itzgeek.com/how-tos/linux/debian/how-to-disable-ipv6-on-debian-9-ubuntu-16-04.html |
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| 10:44.26 | blingrang | Hi. How can I change the interface driver from vif to ena? I have ena loaded and tried rebooting, but it still picks up vif. |
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| 10:45.42 | becks` | hi, running debian 9.5, why do I get this when running sudo? "sudo: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/lib/sudo/libsudo_util.so.0: invalid ELF header" |
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| 10:49.37 | becks` | weird, my libsudo_util.so.0.0.0 has a different md5sum compared to a server that has been set up mostly the same |
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| 10:55.58 | RoyK | becks`: sounds strange - install debsums and check - make sure it's not installed before installing it - if it is, purge it, remove all unofficial repos from /etc/apt/sources.list* and run apt update - the install debsums and run it |
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| 10:57.56 | becks` | thanks RoyK, this really gives me everything OK *except* /usr/lib/sudo/libsudo_util.so.0.0.0 which is FAILED - so I guess I'll just copy the file from the working server |
| 10:58.05 | themill | becks`: what does «file /usr/lib/sudo/libsudo_util.so.0*» say? |
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| 10:58.48 | becks` | libsudo_util.so.0: symbolic link to libsudo_util.so.0.0.0 |
| 10:58.52 | becks` | libsudo_util.so.0.0.0: data |
| 10:59.15 | themill | might be worth looking inside /usr/lib/sudo/libsudo_util.so.0.0.0 |
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| 11:01.45 | becks` | less gives me a bunch of ^@, and both files (working server vs. non-working server) have exactly the same size, 80264 bytes |
| 11:03.28 | themill | that's generally the sort of thing that comes of sad filesystems or hardware |
| 11:05.00 | becks` | checked with a hex editor, the file only contains zeroes... screw you hetzner cloud ;D thank you guys! |
| 11:05.36 | themill | hope you've got good backups ;) |
| 11:05.44 | at0m | becks`: you have su there? |
| 11:06.30 | becks` | at0m: well it's a VPS (which I'm root on) running in the hetzner cloud |
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| 11:07.04 | at0m | should have su, too, right. then "su -" and fix the libsudo |
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| 11:10.28 | at0m | becks`: but like themill says, hope for backups :> libsudo might be an easy to notice, but it's probably not the only file affected |
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| 11:12.58 | becks` | true, thanks =) |
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| 11:18.19 | RoyK | becks`: oops - take a copy of that and upload somewhere |
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| 11:21.33 | _mel_ | Hi. after updating jessie and restarting dbus, ssh login is nearly impossible. there is some kind of systemd-logind timeout error in syslog. can i fix that _without_ rebooting? |
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| 11:56.51 | RebelCoder | guys, apt has this list --upgradable |
| 11:57.13 | RebelCoder | Does aptitude have anything similar ? I can;t find it |
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| 11:58.35 | RebelCoder | Ahhhh aptitude search '~U' |
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| 12:06.06 | WoC | what is the line to reconfigure timezone again? something like dpkg --reconfigure tzdata ? |
| 12:07.23 | Mathisen | yep |
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| 12:40.38 | edmont | hi |
| 12:41.45 | edmont | what should I use to make my application run from startup? systemd? other recommended alternatives? |
| 12:42.51 | Syndrom | edmont: systemd if you dont need something special |
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| 12:45.34 | edmont | Syndrom: ok |
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| 12:58.27 | centrix | I am receiving "recv: (111) Connection refused" in squid.conf, but I set the SUID bit on pinger. If I start pinger as a normal user it seems to work and quits with " pinger: Closing. No requests in last 10 seconds." |
| 12:58.33 | centrix | Any hints please? |
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| 13:38.36 | tdn | I am trying to install debian on a laptop from the netinst image on a bootable USB. However, it does not seem to be able to find the main disk to install on (an internal SSD drive) |
| 13:38.47 | tdn | What options do I have to proceed? |
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| 13:39.46 | Mathisen | is it an m2 disk ? |
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| 13:41.15 | tdn | m2? |
| 13:41.32 | Mathisen | NVMe |
| 13:41.39 | tdn | Yes, it is NVMe |
| 13:41.43 | Mathisen | anyway i know people had issues with those |
| 13:42.00 | Mathisen | do some google-fo there is ways around it but not so easy if i remeber right |
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| 13:51.29 | tdn | Thanks |
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| 14:05.08 | samouy_ | hey there ! I have a little question regarding networking in debian 9. I got a guest Debian running on virtualbox with a bridged network and a arch host. I setup the guest's network to bridged on my network and my guest is getting an IP from dhcp server but not a default route so I can't access the internet. I have to do it manually. On the host, dhcp is able to get a default route. What is wrong with my debian conf ? |
| 14:05.11 | samouy_ | thanks |
| 14:05.15 | samouy_ | :) |
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| 14:15.04 | jken | Hello, I am trying to get the netconsole module to load via modprobe and send logs off to another host on my network so I can diagnose an issue that happens during boot. The system has a USB ethernet adapter and netconsole complains that eth0 does not exist when it tries to start, however the interface exists later in boot. DOes anyone know how I can make this work? |
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| 15:22.46 | ravioli | ok i'm just gonna say it, "sudo" should just be "please" |
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| 15:23.41 | Ticho_ | alias please="sudo" |
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| 15:30.38 | alive | I have 'fucking' aliased to sudo |
| 15:30.49 | xand | ha |
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| 15:32.48 | Ede|Popede | good that funny-manpages is back :) |
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| 15:33.08 | annadane | https://www.xkcd.com/149/ |
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| 15:33.41 | greycat | ,v funny-manpages |
| 15:33.42 | judd | Package: funny-manpages on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.3-5; sid: 2.3-1 |
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| 15:35.15 | n4dir | nothing beats sl though. |
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| 15:35.54 | jelly | can't stand sassy pasta |
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| 15:38.08 | Ede|Popede | https://github.com/mtoyoda/sl/issues/9 |
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| 16:29.37 | hansol | why after clean install cant login with my root password inserted from installation i try with su, and also sudo command is not regonized |
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| 16:30.15 | greycat | You're typing the password wrong. |
| 16:30.22 | hansol | nope im not |
| 16:30.31 | greycat | Well then, you'll have to reset it. |
| 16:30.35 | greycat | !i forgot root's password |
| 16:30.35 | dpkg | For GRUB: 1) press 'e' to edit the kernel setting in the grub command line (add 'init=/bin/sh' to the end of it) 2) 'fsck' your root file system, 3) 'mount -o remount,rw /', 4) 'passwd root' 5) 'mount -o remount,ro /' 6) 'reboot -d -f' (exec /sbin/init should work); For LILO: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at the LILO boot prompt (hold Shift while booting), steps 2-6 are the same; For yaboot: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at yaboot prompt. |
| 16:30.35 | nix64bit | password123? |
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| 16:31.12 | hansol | no only with numbers |
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| 16:32.37 | jhutchins_wk | !sudo |
| 16:32.37 | dpkg | [sudo] (Substitute User DO) Not enabled by default on Debian systems; configure /etc/sudoers first, ask me about <visudo>, <sudoers>. sudo can give limited super user privileges to specific users, or allow you to do silly things like run X apps with root permissions, or good in scripts with "username ALL = NOPASSWD: /some/program". See also <sudo path>. http://wiki.debian.org/sudo http://www.aplawrence.com/Basics/sudo.html |
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| 17:02.12 | Ede|Popede | i have to tell Live running on a not networked PC that the bios clock is UTC. atm `date` and the xfce-thing are 1h off. and `tzselect` doesn't seem to be enough, though that's what i noted. and now, bios has to stay on utc. |
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| 17:05.33 | jken | Hello, I am trying to get kernel logging over a usb serial connection to diagnose a boot issue on my hardware, but am having some trouble gettings logs visible over serial. I have added console=ttyUSB0,12500m8 to my kernel line, and have a baud rate of 112500 set on the other end, but I simply get no data when I `screen /dev/ttyS0 112500` on the other end. |
| 17:05.36 | jken | Can anyone help me out? |
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| 17:25.43 | Akuw | i doing rsync but it stays ---> sending incremental file list |
| 17:25.58 | Akuw | i made a test using scp and work fine |
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| 17:32.34 | vlt | Akuw: Looks like a perfectly fine rsync message to me. |
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| 17:34.15 | xand | Akuw: just wait. |
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| 17:40.09 | jelly | "this is normal" |
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| 17:43.30 | jelly | Akuw: if you have lots of files on source and destination rsync has to traverse the directory structure and collect paths, permissions and timestamps on both ends to see which files need to be transferred or deleted. At the destination server, you can look at process list or top and see a rsync process doing... something |
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| 17:45.15 | jelly | Akuw: if you have a very large file, rsync has to read it WHOLE on both ends. If you do not use --inplace, it also has to create a whole new copy on the destination. |
| 17:45.15 | vlt | Akuw: There’s also -v -i -P |
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| 17:45.39 | jelly | what does -v do that -P does not? |
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| 17:46.16 | vlt | jelly: I don’t know. Years of muscle memory :D |
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| 17:48.37 | Akuw | ok |
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| 17:49.01 | jelly | my muscles know about -PaxSXH with --delete, --numeric-ids or --inplace (clashes with -S) sprinkled where desired, and always using / at the end for both src and dest |
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| 18:05.03 | daveo | hi I need help enabling cgroups for cpuset |
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| 18:12.03 | mtn | daveo: for generic linux help, try using #linux, not the arch channel |
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| 18:12.56 | jhutchins_wk | My muscles know that -av is all you really need. |
| 18:13.05 | jelly | mtn: that'd probably be ##linux |
| 18:13.16 | mtn | jelly: couldn't remember ;) |
| 18:13.20 | jelly | and this isn't an arch channel |
| 18:13.33 | mtn | jelly: he asked the same question there |
| 18:13.55 | jelly | daveo: which distro are you using? |
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| 18:14.13 | daveo | Doesn't matter to me as long as they work |
| 18:14.18 | daveo | so far hypriot first |
| 18:14.25 | daveo | then raspbian |
| 18:14.29 | daveo | so it's a pi |
| 18:14.43 | daveo | a pi zero w to be specific |
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| 18:15.11 | jelly | it might be a kernel-specific issue, if you're on Raspbian try #raspbian |
| 18:15.17 | jelly | !raspbian |
| 18:15.18 | dpkg | Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian on irc.freenode.net for support. http://www.raspbian.org/ |
| 18:15.21 | daveo | did |
| 18:15.30 | daveo | crickets |
| 18:15.36 | jelly | be patient |
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| 18:17.05 | jhutchins_wk | daveo: For more marginal systems irc is often not a good help source, but they do often have mailing lists. No instant gratification, but often sound advice. |
| 18:17.18 | daveo | my impression is that cgroups for cpuset work on armv7 but not on armv6 but I will find out |
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| 18:18.08 | daveo | I've had a lot of luck with nixos. but when I was using nixos. generally solid and knowledgeable group |
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| 18:30.00 | AebianWeb | Hi can someone help me compiling glibc? I tried it but I recieve and error when running the make command then. Error is: https://gist.github.com/Aebian/7198b0f7806fb36030a0db9704eaf2e4 |
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| 18:30.57 | annadane | ...stop. |
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| 18:36.59 | Ede|Popede | `dpkg-reconfigure tzdata` uses capitals, tzselect countries. can someone confirm this? |
| 18:37.49 | hyperlumic | AebianWeb: Why are you trying to compile glibc? |
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| 18:42.15 | AebianWeb | hyperlumic: because my libc is broken. The locales package has been removed and in order to install it I need libc6-dev and this needs libc6 version 2.24 which is the original on my server. However apt thinks that 2.28 shall be installed: libc6-dev : Depends: libc6 (= 2.24-11+deb9u3) but 2.27-8 is to be installed |
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| 18:43.36 | bites | that means you have mixed debian stretch and buster. |
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| 18:43.57 | AebianWeb | yes |
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| 18:44.04 | bites | that's a problem. |
| 18:44.07 | hyperlumic | !frankendebian |
| 18:44.07 | dpkg | When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall> |
| 18:44.37 | annadane | my advice is reinstall. |
| 18:44.48 | hyperlumic | Seconded. |
| 18:45.49 | AebianWeb | the only thing I did was the libc upgrde to 2.27-8 which failed. But if there is no way for going back I guess I need a re-install |
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| 18:47.40 | bites | if it's really only libc6 you can try revert it. |
| 18:47.59 | bites | but it's likely the upgrade pulled in other packages. |
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| 18:48.40 | bites | remove the sources that are not for debian stable first. |
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| 18:50.30 | annadane | if you tell us why you need a newer libc6 in the first place... |
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| 18:50.37 | annadane | but yeah, don't do that in future |
| 18:51.00 | annadane | you shouldn't really mix any testing/unstable packages with stable, only if you really know what you're doing |
| 18:51.08 | jngk | is there a Debian iso that is the equivalent of Ubuntu's "server edition"? ie. a fairly minimal install with X11? |
| 18:51.15 | hyperlumic | I do know what I'm doing, and I still don't do that. |
| 18:51.30 | hyperlumic | jngk: A server install shouldn't have X. |
| 18:51.44 | hyperlumic | jngk: And Ubuntu's Server installer certainly doesn't provide X by default. |
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| 18:51.55 | jngk | hyperlumic, sorry, typo |
| 18:52.01 | jngk | without X11 |
| 18:52.14 | hyperlumic | Oh. |
| 18:52.20 | hyperlumic | Then yes, it's the Debian install ISO. |
| 18:52.22 | greycat | jngk: the standard Debian installer. |
| 18:52.41 | greycat | When it asks you whether you want a Desktop Environment, just say no (un-check it). |
| 18:52.50 | jngk | hyperlumic, it provides XFCE? |
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| 18:53.16 | hyperlumic | It asks you. Say no. |
| 18:53.20 | jngk | ok |
| 18:53.24 | jngk | thanks |
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| 19:14.06 | peaceguy | hi all |
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| 19:14.23 | peaceguy | how do i go about switching my current kernel for the minimal one |
| 19:14.32 | peaceguy | that comes with the option in advanced install |
| 19:14.41 | peaceguy | with only the required drivers and modules? |
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| 19:38.56 | jhutchins_wk | Install the new kernel, set the default in grub and/or delete the old one. |
| 19:39.30 | peaceguy | nice thanks :) |
| 19:39.41 | peaceguy | so could you please point me to the minimal kernel |
| 19:39.47 | peaceguy | like the one in the advanced install |
| 19:39.55 | peaceguy | only required drivers modules etc |
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| 19:40.52 | greycat | Debian's kernel images are not "minimal". |
| 19:41.22 | greycat | wooledg:~$ dpkg -s linux-image-"$(uname -r)" | grep -i size |
| 19:41.23 | greycat | Installed-Size: 188368 |
| 19:41.25 | peaceguy | but what is the option to install only required drivers in the kernel? |
| 19:41.32 | peaceguy | yes they are big |
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| 19:47.58 | joepublic | any non-embedded distribution kernel should be anything but minimal. minimal means "mostly not expected to work with random hardware" |
| 19:48.10 | hansol | how to set correct /etc/hosts file ? |
| 19:49.46 | joepublic | as long as you have a line that says "127.0.0.1 localhost" and another line with your hostname (say your host is called bzzt) "127.0.0.1 bzzt" you're good for ipv4. |
| 19:50.37 | hansol | no need to add 192.168.0.* - my local ip ? |
| 19:51.06 | joepublic | no need. might be an edge case where you'd want to, but you'd know. |
| 19:51.10 | greycat | joepublic: usually the private hostname is put on a 127.0.1.1 line instead of a 127.0.0.1 line. |
| 19:51.42 | joepublic | greycat, you are exactly right of course. my mistake. |
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| 19:52.11 | hansol | so i add 127.0.1.1 localhost |
| 19:52.37 | greycat | No, localhost should be on 127.0.0.1 |
| 19:53.11 | hansol | so i add 127.0.0.1 localhost |
| 19:53.24 | hansol | and 127.0.1.1 myhostname ? |
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| 19:54.35 | hansol | ???? |
| 19:54.46 | joepublic | yes exactly that |
| 19:56.29 | peaceguy | ok but maybe when you install debian it finds just the needed drivers |
| 19:56.49 | joepublic | many drivers are compiled as modules, only loaded if needed. |
| 19:56.56 | joepublic | but they still get installed. |
| 19:57.13 | peaceguy | ok so it only takes up hard drive space, but is not actually loaded? |
| 19:57.22 | joepublic | peaceguy, yes. |
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| 19:57.25 | peaceguy | so the kernel loads only the needed ones, that's nice to hear |
| 19:57.39 | peaceguy | could i remove the non required stuff? |
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| 19:57.53 | hyperlumic | It takes up very little space. |
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| 19:58.13 | peaceguy | that's nice too |
| 19:58.21 | peaceguy | i am just interested could it be removed? |
| 19:58.30 | joepublic | if you want a kernel with fewer modules, it might be best to compile a kernel with fewer modules. |
| 19:58.33 | peaceguy | lol i'm obsessed about minimal kernels |
| 19:58.43 | peaceguy | that seems like the solution, thanks :) |
| 19:58.46 | joepublic | it's not hard to compile a kernel. |
| 19:59.01 | annadane | instructions unclear. lost in siberia |
| 19:59.02 | peaceguy | just put flags to disable things i don't want? |
| 19:59.06 | peaceguy | hahahaha XD |
| 19:59.10 | joepublic | download from kernel.org, extract, make menuconfig |
| 19:59.21 | peaceguy | nice |
| 19:59.25 | joepublic | the menuconfig has details on every driver in detail. |
| 19:59.28 | peaceguy | i would like the debian libre kernel though |
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| 19:59.32 | annadane | and manually keep track of security fixes forever? |
| 19:59.32 | hyperlumic | peaceguy: We'll see you soon when your system doesn't boot or function correctly. Maybe you should obsess over things that actually deliver functionality or purpose. |
| 19:59.32 | peaceguy | binary blob free |
| 19:59.44 | joepublic | when done configuring, make deb-pkg to make debs. |
| 19:59.52 | peaceguy | maybe hyperlumic :) |
| 20:00.00 | hyperlumic | peaceguy: And annadane is also correct that you'll be responsible for security fixes forever. |
| 20:00.01 | joepublic | the procedure is the same for linux-libre, just download from there instead of from kernel.org. |
| 20:00.23 | peaceguy | nice |
| 20:00.27 | peaceguy | thanks everyone :) |
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| 20:01.26 | joepublic | I am kind of addicted to compiling the latest kernel every week or so, so I tend to get the latest fixes. it's not a perfect system. |
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| 20:02.25 | joepublic | my x86 servers run debian kernels, so they benefit from debian. |
| 20:03.05 | joepublic | my arm servers run arm out-of-tree ugly patched-for-their-soc kernels that will never be updated that I can see. |
| 20:03.28 | annadane | soc? |
| 20:03.36 | joepublic | system-on-a-chip, sorry should be SOC |
| 20:04.30 | peaceguy | this is all nice i feel i can handle this system; i was happy when i found debian ships libre kernel |
| 20:04.59 | joepublic | debian doesn't ship the linux-libre kernel; it merely ships the linux kernel with no binary blobs installed. |
| 20:04.59 | peaceguy | can i ask how to disable kvm module so it doesn't load at start time? |
| 20:05.19 | peaceguy | would that imply that debian's kernel has some non free pieces in it?? |
| 20:05.44 | greycat | !blacklist |
| 20:05.44 | dpkg | To blacklist a Linux kernel module, create/edit /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.local.conf and add a line similar to this (without quotes): "blacklist module_name". If this doesn't work, do 'echo "install modulename /bin/true" >> /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.local.conf'. IMPORTANT: ask about <blacklist-initramfs>. To blacklist a module at installation time, ask me about <installer blacklist>. http://wiki.debian.org/KernelModuleBlacklisting |
| 20:06.09 | peaceguy | so for every blacklisted module i create a file |
| 20:06.23 | peaceguy | could i just put blacklist <module> in the file /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist ? |
| 20:06.31 | peaceguy | blacklist.conf or how it's called? |
| 20:07.01 | joepublic | the difference between a debian kernel (that ships with no non-free parts) and the linux-libre project is that if you decide to put a non-free file where the kernel expects it, it would still work. The linux-libre project kernels would not recognize the file if you did so. |
| 20:07.01 | annadane | should we hold an intervention for kernel tinkering addiction? |
| 20:07.16 | peaceguy | i just want to disable modules is all |
| 20:07.20 | joepublic | it's harmless, inexpensive, and educational. |
| 20:07.25 | peaceguy | yes!! |
| 20:07.29 | joepublic | that's my story and I am sticking to it. |
| 20:07.29 | annadane | i know, i'm joking. don't take me seriously. |
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| 20:08.25 | hyperlumic | !sns |
| 20:08.25 | dpkg | Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>. |
| 20:08.25 | joepublic | I think linux-libre patches all the expected filenames to be "*deblobbed*" or some such |
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| 20:08.59 | joepublic | now, SNS is real expensive on the hardware side of things. I have even been scolded in family counseling for it. This is a true story. |
| 20:09.11 | peaceguy | could you explain does the debian kernel contain any non-free parts? |
| 20:09.26 | joepublic | the debian kernel does not contain any non-free parts. |
| 20:09.33 | peaceguy | that's amazing |
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| 20:09.44 | peaceguy | but what's the difference between it and linux-libre then |
| 20:09.46 | peaceguy | ? |
| 20:10.00 | joepublic | if you later decided to add the non-free repositories, you could install non-free parts and they would function. With linux-libre that's not possible, they wouldn't function even if you added them later. |
| 20:10.19 | peaceguy | i see |
| 20:11.16 | peaceguy | so linux-libre practically disables loading at all |
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| 20:11.44 | peaceguy | so what in debian kernel makes them work when installed? |
| 20:12.14 | joepublic | linux-libre disables loading things that are known to be non-free. They have a script that runs against the regular kernel and disables the loading of non-free external files. Debian doesn't do that; they just don't supply any non-free files. |
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| 20:12.36 | peaceguy | i understand now completely, thanks :) |
| 20:13.03 | joepublic | six of one, half a dozen of the other if you don't enable non-free repositories. |
| 20:13.19 | peaceguy | six of one? |
| 20:13.36 | peaceguy | you mean to say if i don't enable anything non-free i should be safe? |
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| 20:14.21 | joepublic | if you wanted non-free software you would specifically have to add the word "non-free" to your sources.list. If you don't do that, debian doesn't install any non-free software, doesn't install any non-free kernel firmware. |
| 20:14.55 | joepublic | sorry "six of one half a dozen of the other" is an idiom meaning "they are almost the same thing" |
| 20:15.19 | peaceguy | lol nice :) |
| 20:15.23 | peaceguy | i am aware of that |
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| 20:15.25 | n4dir | iirc the debian kernel had non-free blobs, which was a bit of a disagreement between debian and gnu.org in the past (but that has been solved a few years ago) |
| 20:15.28 | peaceguy | sources list thing |
| 20:15.35 | peaceguy | to disable non-free repos |
| 20:15.58 | peaceguy | n4dir: now it has a kernel that has no non-free blobs :) |
| 20:16.00 | annadane | by non-free i assume we're largely speaking about closed source |
| 20:16.11 | n4dir | yes, that is what i said. |
| 20:16.15 | peaceguy | we are |
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| 20:16.27 | joepublic | this is in contrast to devuan, for example, which claims to be just like debian, but includes non-free packages on all its official installation media. |
| 20:16.28 | n4dir | i did never follow the discussion that closely though. |
| 20:16.39 | peaceguy | no problem |
| 20:16.57 | peaceguy | so how could i set sources.list so that i only get security updates and nothing else? |
| 20:17.07 | peaceguy | i disable the regular entry and leave out only the security one? |
| 20:17.18 | n4dir | well: pretty much all debian-based distros come with non-free per default. That is not special for devuan. |
| 20:17.37 | peaceguy | official debian kernel is safe :) |
| 20:17.43 | joepublic | n4dir, pretty much all debian-based distros don't claim to be "just like debian but without systemd" |
| 20:17.56 | joepublic | someone could believe that and get bit |
| 20:18.28 | n4dir | remove the non-free apps, edit your sources list, call it a day. |
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| 20:19.13 | peaceguy | lol don't worry i don't have anything non-free |
| 20:19.26 | peaceguy | i just want to disable regular updates so it leaves me with only the security ones |
| 20:19.50 | peaceguy | so when i update it gives me only security updates and not the regular new versions of programs |
| 20:20.36 | joepublic | peaceguy, debian stable does not introduce new versions of programs. |
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| 20:21.00 | deadrom | hi |
| 20:21.19 | joepublic | hello deadrom |
| 20:21.26 | peaceguy | i see |
| 20:21.36 | peaceguy | so all my updates are actually security ones? |
| 20:21.46 | peaceguy | i don't mean big versions i mean updates that are not security ones? |
| 20:21.54 | joepublic | peaceguy, not necessarily; they could be bugfixes. |
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| 20:22.01 | peaceguy | that too i need |
| 20:22.03 | peaceguy | lol |
| 20:22.10 | peaceguy | that's what i had in mind |
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| 20:22.20 | deadrom | deb9 and 4K@60Hz on nvidia (nvs 5400m, bit older laptop chip in a Thinkpad T530) - possible? got a proper cable on the docking station but can't have more than 30Hz |
| 20:22.21 | peaceguy | hi deadrom |
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| 20:23.15 | peaceguy | so i want to ask this too: if i don't update for let's say whole week so i skip an update, then when i update i could break something? |
| 20:23.19 | peaceguy | i mean it's a mistake right? |
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| 20:24.00 | joepublic | peaceguy, if you did not update for a year then ran update, it would just bring you current. If you are connected to Internet you should update more often, of course. |
| 20:24.18 | greycat | If you're on stable, you can skip a week, and the only problem will be that you are potentially using broken software during that week. |
| 20:24.50 | greycat | Or a month, or a year, or however long. |
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| 20:25.18 | n4dir | i found an old raspberry pi which was still old-stable, so sure way longer not updated then a week. No problems at all. |
| 20:25.29 | greycat | (Just don't go for more than a couple years, because then your stable release might be cycled out to LTS, or even abandoned.) |
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| 20:26.37 | n4dir | ups: old-old-stable, not old-stable. |
| 20:26.47 | peaceguy | i don't do anything wrong |
| 20:27.04 | joepublic | oldoldstable is wheezy, oldstable is jessie, stable is stretch |
| 20:27.11 | peaceguy | after an install i just regularly normally updated and i get some linux related package |
| 20:27.14 | peaceguy | says it's held back |
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| 20:28.03 | jelly | deadrom, when that card was made there probably were no standards to output 4k60 at all |
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| 20:30.39 | peaceguy | lol greycat more than a couple of years that's funny :D |
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| 20:31.10 | peaceguy | why do i get something that is held back? is that bad? do i just upgrade it? |
| 20:31.12 | joepublic | You might simulate a dist-upgrade with -s and see what it would do to evaluate whether that is a good choice or not: sudo apt-get -s dist-upgrade |
| 20:31.43 | peaceguy | and also why does it sometime say reading MBs of archives then says this will take KBs of hd space? is that bad? |
| 20:32.08 | peaceguy | why dist-upgrade exxactly? |
| 20:32.14 | greycat | replacing pkg1 version y with pkg1 version y+1 will typically take up a little more disk space |
| 20:32.17 | jelly | !dist-upgrade |
| 20:32.17 | dpkg | dist-upgrade tells apt to also install/remove packages when handling dependencies; security updates may require a dist-upgrade to install (they introduce new packages). Dist-upgrade does not mean changing from stable to testing; apt and aptitude both call dist-upgrade "full-upgrade" to remove this confusion. Read man apt-get carefully. See also <why not dist-upgrade>, <full-upgrade>. |
| 20:33.27 | peaceguy | so i do dist-upgrade when doing security upgrades |
| 20:33.31 | peaceguy | ok nice thanks :) |
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| 20:34.28 | jken | Currently running 4.18-bpo kernel on debian stretch, but need to recompile the kernel to include some hardware specific modules. What is the "Debian way" to go about this? |
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| 20:36.05 | joepublic | basically you do dist-upgrade when something is held back but you think it should probably be installed even if that entails removing old packages and/or installing new packages to make it happen (which upgrade alone does not do) |
| 20:36.33 | joepublic | jken, if you compile the kernel with make deb-pkg it makes debs to install with dpkg |
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| 20:36.46 | cinch | jken, apt-get install linux-source, which has the debian patches already applied |
| 20:36.57 | peaceguy | so i could never break anything just doing upgrade and dist-upgrade? |
| 20:37.21 | peaceguy | i could also do upgrade <package> |
| 20:37.26 | peaceguy | or dist-upgrade |
| 20:37.36 | joepublic | peaceguy, if you leave sources.list alone, upgrade and dist-upgrade are safe. |
| 20:38.03 | peaceguy | ok so i just disable the deb-src entries and leave all other defaults |
| 20:38.35 | peaceguy | and i won't skip any update it just goes to the current one |
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| 20:38.41 | peaceguy | as someone told me it skips it lol |
| 20:39.42 | joepublic | it skips things it doesn't need. if you have package foo-1.0.0 and there is released a foo-1.0.1 and then later foo-1.0.2, and you upgrade, it might skip 1.0.1 because the current version is 1.0.2. |
| 20:39.55 | peaceguy | i understand |
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| 20:40.05 | peaceguy | but it won't break it if i skip some versions |
| 20:40.11 | peaceguy | depends on the package maybe |
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| 20:40.15 | peaceguy | if it's too big of a leap |
| 20:40.25 | joepublic | debian stable won't break no matter how big the leap. |
| 20:40.32 | peaceguy | nice :) |
| 20:40.41 | Tenkawa | never say never |
| 20:40.42 | joepublic | upgrading from stable to testing, that might break. |
| 20:40.45 | peaceguy | lol |
| 20:40.46 | peaceguy | :/ |
| 20:40.59 | deadrom | jelly, it is a bit dated, yes. so cold be I'm stuck with 30. shame, good laptop. |
| 20:41.01 | GPenguin | hello, how can i add rules in "ufw" that cover an ip range in ipv4 and in ipv6 with a specific port only? |
| 20:41.10 | joepublic | yeah it is not all that hard for a determined person with root access to break debian in two seconds flat. |
| 20:41.20 | peaceguy | lol |
| 20:41.58 | peaceguy | is the line referencing stretch-updates main default? |
| 20:42.10 | jelly | !stable-updates |
| 20:42.10 | dpkg | [stretch-updates] a suite providing updates to some packages (from <proposed-updates>) prior to a <point release>. All packages from stretch-updates will be included in point releases. https://wiki.debian.org/StableUpdates . Not to be confused with <stretch/updates> which is for <security> updates. |
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| 20:42.22 | hyperlumic | GPenguin: man ufw? |
| 20:42.27 | hyperlumic | GPenguin: it's spelled out in detail. |
| 20:42.40 | GPenguin | its not |
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| 20:43.24 | hyperlumic | Given that I'm looking at it right now... I beg to differ. So where is the confusion? |
| 20:43.26 | jhutchins_wk | It's always recommended that you bring your current install completely up-to-date before upgrading, and that you don't skip major versions. If you need to upgrade from 7 to 9 you upgrade to 8 first. |
| 20:43.34 | joepublic | here is a default sources.list for stable: http://paste.debian.net/1053324/ |
| 20:43.40 | Tenkawa | GPenguin: see if its in /usr/share/doc/ufw |
| 20:43.50 | GPenguin | oh dear |
| 20:43.59 | Tenkawa | or something similar |
| 20:44.24 | Tenkawa | theres usually examples there |
| 20:44.36 | joepublic | At least, I don't think I have messed with it since install |
| 20:45.01 | GPenguin | please dont act as a helper if you dont really care to help |
| 20:45.33 | hyperlumic | GPenguin: Have you tried to follow the documentation in 'man ufw'? |
| 20:45.37 | GPenguin | please |
| 20:46.03 | peaceguy | lol you're registered for pastebin |
| 20:46.03 | Tenkawa | what did I do? |
| 20:46.05 | peaceguy | nice |
| 20:46.24 | peaceguy | no it's the default i see now |
| 20:46.25 | hyperlumic | GPenguin: We're not asking overly burdensome questions. |
| 20:46.26 | peaceguy | :) |
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| 20:46.41 | peaceguy | :( |
| 20:46.45 | Tenkawa | ummm ok |
| 20:46.46 | hyperlumic | Okay. Next? |
| 20:47.06 | Tenkawa | well that was uncalled for imo |
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| 20:48.10 | hyperlumic | Not uncommon novice behavior. Ask "How do I?" questions instead of "I'm trying to accomplish X by doing Y. I'm having this issue with Y. Pointers, please?" |
| 20:48.40 | hyperlumic | And they get pissed when someone doesn't just *give* them the answer. |
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| 20:50.02 | Starz0r | is there a place for gpg keys for repos or something, I usually add repos from a UI where it probably does this for me |
| 20:50.06 | n4dir | "man yada" is alos not very uncommon. |
| 20:50.13 | n4dir | also. |
| 20:50.32 | Starz0r | I basically changed my /etc/apt/sources.list to closer mirrors, but it complains about not having the GPG key, so I don't think I can download from them until I have them |
| 20:50.42 | hyperlumic | I mean, it's where all the documentation is, man foo shouldn't be uncommon. |
| 20:50.48 | Starz0r | I already searched their site for them, and they don't seem to be publically available on the site |
| 20:50.49 | joepublic | starzor, pasting the error with the missing key usually gives results of where to find them. |
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| 20:51.41 | Tenkawa | hyperlumic: /usr/doc is also a lot of the times more thorough |
| 20:51.56 | peaceguy | find doc lol |
| 20:51.56 | joepublic | I seem to have left the phrase "into your favorite search engine such as duckduckgo" out of the advice above. |
| 20:52.13 | n4dir | Starz0r: if a key is missing you usually can do "apt-cache search key" or add --names-only, and it will hopefully be obvious which one you need. |
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| 20:52.22 | Tenkawa | but he/she didnt seem to want to listen |
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| 20:52.30 | joepublic | I swear /usr/share/doc was one of the best discoveries of my adult life |
| 20:52.39 | peaceguy | lol :D |
| 20:52.48 | Tenkawa | yaeh |
| 20:52.57 | hyperlumic | Tenkawa: It CAN be a good source, yes. In this case, the contents of doc/ for ufw are worthless, which is why I didn't suggest it. |
| 20:52.58 | Tenkawa | i mistyped |
| 20:53.07 | Tenkawa | /usr/share/doc |
| 20:53.29 | greycat | It used to be /usr/doc a long time ago. |
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| 20:54.13 | Tenkawa | greycat: yea I think I'm still remembering my old ancient days |
| 20:54.51 | joepublic | if nothing else there will be that machine summary of the license(s) |
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| 20:55.20 | peaceguy | so when i log in to the console i get the license, where is the license file located? |
| 20:55.41 | joepublic | peaceguy, for package foo, the license is in the directory /usr/share/doc/foo |
| 20:55.46 | agio | hi, does anyone know how to remove (delete all) the entries in Xdefaults/Xresources? |
| 20:55.51 | peaceguy | for the operating system i mean |
| 20:56.13 | joepublic | the operating system is composed of packages, each licensed however they happen to be licensed. |
| 20:56.31 | peaceguy | the license that gets printed out when i login to the console, the debian main license? |
| 20:56.39 | joepublic | to see a list of all the packages installed, you can dpkg -l |
| 20:56.44 | bites | peaceguy: which debian release is that? |
| 20:56.46 | n4dir | agio: in the users home? just rm them, i guess. |
| 20:56.50 | peaceguy | debian 9 |
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| 20:56.54 | peaceguy | 9.5 * |
| 20:57.12 | peaceguy | not packages joepublic lol |
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| 20:57.33 | annadane | rm -rf /usr/share/doc |
| 20:57.35 | peaceguy | the thing that you get when in console, it says software packaged in debian is free software bla bla |
| 20:57.40 | bites | i've seen that on other distros, never on debian. usually through a motd hook in pam when logging in through ssh. |
| 20:57.42 | peaceguy | .. lol |
| 20:57.42 | Tenkawa | annadane: noooooo |
| 20:57.46 | Tenkawa | haahaa |
| 20:57.48 | agio | n4dir: in the Xresources database |
| 20:57.49 | peaceguy | anavel: ? |
| 20:57.50 | annadane | i'll figure this out as i go along! |
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| 20:57.52 | peaceguy | annadane: ? |
| 20:57.56 | peaceguy | sorry |
| 20:58.01 | annadane | nothing, i'm just being silly, ignore me |
| 20:58.05 | peaceguy | :D |
| 20:58.09 | annadane | also do not remove /usr/share/doc |
| 20:58.15 | peaceguy | LOL |
| 20:58.17 | Tenkawa | i know |
| 20:58.20 | Tenkawa | heheheh |
| 20:58.34 | joepublic | that message is telling you what I am telling you - that each package is licensed separately, and all the licenses are in /usr/share/doc |
| 20:58.45 | peaceguy | where does the message come from? |
| 20:59.02 | peaceguy | i know that lol |
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| 20:59.04 | joepublic | it comes from /etc/motd |
| 20:59.13 | peaceguy | thanks :) |
| 20:59.18 | Tenkawa | just wouldbt want anyone else to take iit seriously |
| 20:59.22 | joepublic | motd stands for "message of the day" |
| 20:59.30 | peaceguy | i know that too :) |
| 20:59.34 | peaceguy | just forgot this lol |
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| 20:59.59 | bites | what pulls that in? some DE? |
| 21:00.06 | peaceguy | the message? |
| 21:00.18 | peaceguy | the console does |
| 21:00.33 | bites | no... |
| 21:00.34 | n4dir | agio: i for one no nothing of a Xresources database. |
| 21:00.51 | joepublic | from your graphical desktop, control-alt-f something (f2 for example) will bring up a text console; log in and you see this message. Control-alt-f7 to return to your graphical environment |
| 21:01.09 | peaceguy | i know that too :D |
| 21:01.14 | joepublic | sometimes I have found control-alt-f5 to be the graphical environment on some live environments, i forget which |
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| 21:01.39 | peaceguy | now that i didn't know :D |
| 21:01.46 | bites | i don't have any of that. |
| 21:02.02 | joepublic | bites, what do you get when you cat /etc/motd ? |
| 21:03.14 | bites | i have that. never seen it get triggered. |
| 21:03.18 | peaceguy | lol how could i possibly missed this! |
| 21:03.20 | jelly | agio, for the current session? What's the real goal here? |
| 21:03.33 | peaceguy | bites: it gets triggered in the console |
| 21:04.18 | agio | jelly: yes current session, end goal is to try my console in default mode |
| 21:04.50 | jelly | agio, your what? |
| 21:05.05 | jelly | I don't know of an X app called "console" |
| 21:05.17 | peaceguy | the real console |
| 21:05.22 | peaceguy | the only one |
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| 21:05.48 | joepublic | peaceguy, i think they are talking about something else |
| 21:06.05 | peaceguy | sorry |
| 21:06.20 | peaceguy | they said console |
| 21:06.32 | jelly | they also said Xresources |
| 21:06.35 | agio | jelly: I want to test if some config I set is messing up my urxvt, so I want to start it in default mode |
| 21:06.42 | peaceguy | sorry |
| 21:06.44 | agio | console == terminal |
| 21:06.46 | bites | ah, it does get triggered when logging in through ssh. it must be a pam hook. |
| 21:07.03 | n4dir | agio: then mv or rm your XResources or XDefaults file. |
| 21:07.18 | peaceguy | pam hook? |
| 21:07.22 | n4dir | mv is probably way better in this case. |
| 21:07.23 | bites | probably /etc/pam.d/login |
| 21:07.25 | jelly | n4dir, er, that doesn't do anything to the current settings |
| 21:07.29 | peaceguy | thanks bites :) |
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| 21:07.34 | joepublic | Virtual consoles are documented, for example, here: https://wiki.debian.org/Console "the well known black window in which the user can write in the command line" |
| 21:08.24 | n4dir | then add comments to the whole file and do "xrdb -merge .XResources". |
| 21:08.34 | bites | i take back that i've never seen it on debian. my brain must have filtered it out. |
| 21:08.52 | peaceguy | lol |
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| 21:09.01 | peaceguy | but how do i disable it from the /etc/pam.d/login? |
| 21:09.04 | jelly | n4dir, that also won't change anything |
| 21:09.12 | n4dir | then give up. |
| 21:09.18 | peaceguy | i just comment the session optional pam_motd.so motd=/run/motd.dynamic line ? |
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| 21:09.49 | agio | n4dir: your idea would work if you use : xrdb -load ~/.Xdefaults|Xresources |
| 21:10.14 | agio | but there has to be an easier way that doesn't involve shifting files around |
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| 21:11.04 | jelly | agio, I don't know of a way to wipe all URxvt.* |
| 21:11.39 | agio | jelly: do you know of a way to print all entries in Xresouces? |
| 21:12.07 | peaceguy | so how do i disable these pam autostart services? |
| 21:12.10 | jelly | agio, xrdb -edit current-customizations.txt will write all the current changed resources to a file |
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| 21:12.17 | greycat | agio: xrdb -query |
| 21:12.46 | greycat | (took me less than a minute from typing "man xrdb") |
| 21:12.49 | agio | greycat: xrdb -query is printing nothing |
| 21:12.56 | greycat | Then you don't have any. |
| 21:13.04 | jelly | however. |
| 21:13.14 | jelly | rxvt and descendants are special |
| 21:13.35 | jelly | they actually read ~/.Xresources and ~/.Xdefaults as config files on each start |
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| 21:13.40 | greycat | Yes, true, the original rxvt will directly read a .Xdefaults file instead of querying the X Resources. |
| 21:13.43 | agio | greycat: when I launch urxvt - it has all the config settings - so then I do have residual settings being stored, right? |
| 21:14.03 | jelly | greycat, I believe it's "in addition to" instead of "instead of" |
| 21:14.06 | greycat | There's no such thing as a "residual setting". |
| 21:14.24 | greycat | jelly: could be. Maybe he could read the man page and remove all uncertainty. |
| 21:14.42 | agio | ah, I think jelly explained it above. the settings are being re-read from Xdefaults on each start |
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| 21:15.49 | jelly | so what n4dir suggests would actually work :-) |
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| 21:16.36 | bites | to give up? |
| 21:16.47 | n4dir | what ? |
| 21:17.26 | bites | huh? |
| 21:17.35 | peaceguy | lol |
| 21:17.37 | agio | jelly: n4dir yes, it seems n4dir idea is right |
| 21:17.38 | jelly | nani?! |
| 21:18.02 | n4dir | i was already crawling back in my hole, and now that. |
| 21:18.21 | jelly | <n4dir> agio: then mv or rm your XResources or XDefaults file. |
| 21:18.54 | jelly | open("/home/jelly/.Xdefaults", O_RDONLY) = 7 |
| 21:19.13 | jelly | urxvt still does the same thing |
| 21:19.21 | peaceguy | how do i disable things in /etc/pam.d/login from starting? |
| 21:19.21 | agio | jelly: thats what I did, and it works + run `xrdb -load /dev/null' to empty Xresources database |
| 21:19.27 | peaceguy | !pam |
| 21:19.27 | dpkg | i heard pam is the Pluggable Authentication Modules. Check http://web.archive.org/web/20110721105843/http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/libs/pam/ for more information. Linux-PAM System Administrators' Guide: http://web.archive.org/web/20110613030734/http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/libs/pam/Linux-PAM-html/Linux-PAM_SAG.html |
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| 21:19.40 | peaceguy | nice |
| 21:19.43 | peaceguy | link format.. |
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| 21:19.50 | greycat | peaceguy: any file in /etc/ is a config file and you are allowed to edit it. If it breaks, you get to keep the pieces. |
| 21:19.57 | peaceguy | :D |
| 21:20.14 | jelly | peaceguy, if you don't understand how pam works it's VERY easy to break the config and make yourself unable to log in |
| 21:20.23 | peaceguy | just disable one thing? |
| 21:20.30 | jelly | (noone understands how PAM works) |
| 21:20.35 | peaceguy | lol |
| 21:20.35 | hyperlumic | I do. |
| 21:20.35 | GNU\colossus | in fact, it's quite easy to do that even if you DO understand how pam works :) |
| 21:20.39 | peaceguy | i figured that |
| 21:20.46 | bites | just edit /etc/motd if you want the text to go away. you still get the last login and email notification. |
| 21:20.46 | peaceguy | :D |
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| 21:20.49 | jelly | peaceguy, which one thing? |
| 21:20.55 | peaceguy | ...motd |
| 21:21.02 | peaceguy | :D lol sorry |
| 21:21.06 | n4dir | never hurts to backup all of /etc , i usually put it in the empty /root directory. |
| 21:21.19 | peaceguy | that's smart :) |
| 21:21.20 | GNU\colossus | also, etckeeper |
| 21:21.36 | jelly | peaceguy, if it's present in /etc/pam.d/login and not an included common-* file, you can just comment it out |
| 21:21.45 | n4dir | most of the time (if i don't forget) after installation. |
| 21:22.12 | hyperlumic | peaceguy: I would recommend simply emptying /etc/motd vs. modifying PAM files. If you don't know how PAM works, you shouldn't be messing with it. |
| 21:22.17 | peaceguy | you mean an entry in /etc/pam.d/login can be commented out? |
| 21:22.19 | GNU\colossus | I usually use `su` as testing grounds for PAM stack changes (while also having sudo installed and set up correctly) |
| 21:22.37 | agio | generally files in /etc (Editable Text Configuration) are expected to be edited by the system admin for the box (they apply to all users) |
| 21:23.00 | jelly | peaceguy, yes, that is sometimes a thing with config files. |
| 21:23.07 | hyperlumic | agio: Nice backronym. |
| 21:23.08 | peaceguy | lol |
| 21:23.16 | peaceguy | i just asked, see how it can get badly |
| 21:23.20 | peaceguy | if i touch /etc/pam.d/login |
| 21:23.22 | peaceguy | lol |
| 21:23.36 | jelly | if you feel brave you may even comment out BOTH pam_motd entries |
| 21:23.44 | peaceguy | :D |
| 21:23.49 | peaceguy | there are 2 of them i saw |
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| 21:24.38 | jelly | and since PAM was created by crazy people there's no need to reload anything |
| 21:24.59 | peaceguy | how do you mean, reload what? |
| 21:25.17 | jelly | a hypothetical login service. |
| 21:25.33 | GNU\colossus | changes are effective the moment you save the file(s) involved |
| 21:25.54 | jelly | so if you break things, noone can log in via login from that point on |
| 21:26.10 | GNU\colossus | (so keep a number of root shells open while messing with things :>) |
| 21:26.29 | peaceguy | lol :) |
| 21:26.42 | jelly | no, that's good advice |
| 21:26.46 | peaceguy | so it's live changes get applied live |
| 21:26.50 | peaceguy | i know it is good |
| 21:27.28 | jelly | you might even not exit the editor, just save the file, see if someone can still log in at the console, and if they can't, undo the changes and save again |
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| 21:28.25 | greycat | ^ |
| 21:28.26 | peaceguy | these are all good to know |
| 21:28.37 | peaceguy | never knew pam is this dangerous, could stop login |
| 21:28.39 | peaceguy | break* |
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| 21:33.14 | jelly | there was a nice rant about (glibc's) NSS on lwn recently, which is also crazy for many similar reasons |
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| 21:34.45 | multun | jelly: well that doesn't make pam crazy |
| 21:35.01 | greycat | PAM is absolutely one of the most critical pieces on the system when it comes to interactive sessions (logins of any kind). |
| 21:35.21 | greycat | A server can probably live without it until you actually want to log in to change something. |
| 21:35.27 | multun | jelly: if you break your bootloader and reboot, you're fucked anyway as well |
| 21:35.42 | multun | jelly: does that make your kernel "broken" ? |
| 21:35.52 | multun | same for any firewall |
| 21:36.10 | jelly | multun, I did not mention why I think it's crazy at all. |
| 21:36.17 | multun | my bad then |
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| 21:36.42 | jelly | (and I do, but I only said crazy people did it) |
| 21:37.10 | multun | but I don't think the fact you don't need to reload anything is due to a bad decision from pam designers |
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| 21:37.25 | multun | you don't need to be crazy to do such things |
| 21:37.32 | joepublic | an increase in complexity can bring benefits; for any such situation, you will find that some people think they are worth it, some people don't |
| 21:38.02 | jelly | multun, loading almost arbitrary .so depending on who-knows-what libraries into your own service process is crazy. |
| 21:38.17 | multun | no that's not ? |
| 21:38.31 | multun | it's not crazier than dynamic libraries |
| 21:38.31 | jelly | which is why most modern services talk to a service bus now |
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| 21:39.10 | joepublic | A spaceship landed on Mars today. |
| 21:40.07 | multun | jelly: I don't like PAM either but I don't think your point makes sense |
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| 21:41.36 | multun | talking over a service bus would require 1) a service bus 2) make your login depend on one more daemon, let's hope it's started |
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| 21:42.07 | jelly | yes. systemd already has a hard dbus dependency. |
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| 21:45.04 | multun | jelly: well PAM isn't systemd |
| 21:45.48 | jelly | no, it's older, and has been abused over the years to do all sorts of things |
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| 21:46.37 | jelly | login is a service. A service manager will usually exist before services. |
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| 21:47.16 | jelly | I can't believe I'm advocating systemd gobble up yet another piece of functionality. |
| 21:47.48 | multun | jelly: you know, if you want PAM to talk to a system bus to auth stuff, you can make it do that |
| 21:47.57 | greycat | systemd-logind(8) says "Nom nom nom" |
| 21:48.13 | jelly | no, I want to replace PAM with a service behind a bus |
| 21:48.29 | multun | jelly: what would that bring ? |
| 21:48.37 | jelly | no crazy .so in my code |
| 21:48.45 | multun | you mean "dependancies" ? |
| 21:48.56 | jelly | in my address space, or in my symbols |
| 21:49.34 | multun | why do you assume anybody can change your pam config ? |
| 21:49.34 | jelly | no crazy pam_ldap loading libldap.so deciding to write debug to fd 2 of my own service |
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| 21:50.20 | jelly | that was a thing that happened. I was more annoyed at openldap people at the time, though |
| 21:50.20 | multun | then write a bus service, and configure pam to use it |
| 21:51.16 | multun | that like, _the_ cool thing about pam, which is that you can make it do whatever you like |
| 21:51.17 | SerajewelKS | LDAP anything feels like a cluster |
| 21:51.19 | SerajewelKS | PAM or not |
| 21:51.42 | multun | it you configure it to use terrible software, that's your fault |
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| 21:52.16 | multun | jelly: have you heard about /etc/ld.so.preload ? |
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| 21:52.38 | multun | this thing can also load arbitraty stuff into your address space |
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| 21:52.44 | multun | scary stuff :) |
| 21:52.55 | jelly | yeah, no. PAM used to be clear and simple and understandable while it was part of Solaris. Maybe it's just Solaris had actually useful man pages. |
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| 21:53.37 | Tenkawa | ld,so.preload brings back memories |
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| 21:53.48 | Tenkawa | muhaahaahaa |
| 21:53.50 | jelly | multun, that's why noone sane uses preloading to run services unless they have no other choice |
| 21:55.26 | multun | jelly: whatever you have in your pam config are just like dynamic linker deps |
| 21:55.31 | multun | si* |
| 21:55.33 | multun | is* |
| 21:56.20 | Tenkawa | remembered using it on an app combined with assembly bac in the 90s |
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| 22:03.49 | joepublic | tldr pages are usually pretty useful. |
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| 23:23.42 | fareast | hello |
| 23:23.53 | fareast | help my netinstall dropped to busybox. I am on mbr bios it gave up waiting for root file system device.... any suggestions? |
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| 23:29.55 | Brigo | vz |
| 23:31.18 | Brigo | fareast, any other error? |
| 23:31.25 | Brigo | about disks, partitions, etc |
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| 23:32.10 | fareast | no I am just going to download a full xfce |
| 23:32.17 | fareast | I am writing it now |
| 23:32.25 | fareast | we will see what happens |
| 23:32.39 | fareast | tell me debian over ubuntu or open suse.... |
| 23:33.02 | fareast | I am making decisions regarding a distro at the moment |
| 23:33.38 | Brigo | fareast, are you installing from a usb? |
| 23:33.41 | fareast | yes |
| 23:33.45 | fareast | si senor |
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| 23:34.56 | fareast | I am ready for whatever comes my way but I need to get this thing to boot first. |
| 23:35.40 | fareast | Its an old dell core 2 vostro desktop |
| 23:35.42 | Brigo | fareast, how do you create that usb? |
| 23:35.45 | fareast | the 220 |
| 23:35.58 | fareast | I am using multiwriter in solus |
| 23:36.14 | fareast | fat32 i believe |
| 23:36.15 | Brigo | i don't know what's that. |
| 23:36.29 | fareast | its an iso writer that writes to multiple usb sticks |
| 23:36.35 | fareast | i am just using it for the one |
| 23:37.11 | fareast | solus is running bugie its pretty nice. |
| 23:37.14 | Brigo | fareast, i'm not sure it is the right one for debian isos. |
| 23:37.28 | fareast | do i have to run a debian iso writer? |
| 23:37.35 | Brigo | debian isos are meant to be just copied to the usb. |
| 23:37.37 | fareast | it booted once before. |
| 23:37.47 | fareast | well that is what it is doing i believe |
| 23:37.56 | fareast | it just makes a fat32 partition and extracts the iso into the drive |
| 23:38.04 | Brigo | just try with cp if you could. |
| 23:38.14 | Brigo | fareast, that's not going to work |
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| 23:38.29 | Brigo | you need to cp netinstall.iso /dev/sdx |
| 23:38.36 | Ede|Popede | it extracts the *files* into the fat partition? if so, no chance. |
| 23:38.55 | fareast | hmm |
| 23:38.59 | fareast | why so different |
| 23:39.08 | fareast | i have written linux lives before with this program. |
| 23:39.28 | Ede|Popede | the iso must be as is at the start of the usb (note: not at the start of the fs on it) |
| 23:39.30 | Brigo | fareast, yes debian isos are different. |
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| 23:39.44 | fareast | o.O |
| 23:39.51 | scatterbrainz | evening |
| 23:39.51 | fareast | ok if it fails I will try it. |
| 23:40.02 | Ede|Popede | or a copy of the iso and then a bootloader (like for multiboot) |
| 23:40.34 | Ede|Popede | ahoi scatterbrainz |
| 23:40.47 | fareast | I thought the bootloader was built into the iso. |
| 23:41.11 | fareast | weird thing is it is saying that my system booted efi |
| 23:41.16 | agio | I've copied installer files into a FAT partion then booted into the installer no problem |
| 23:41.18 | fareast | its not a uefi system |
| 23:41.23 | Ede|Popede | right, but how is your pc supposed to find it if it is *somewhere* on the stick? ;) |
| 23:41.32 | scatterbrainz | how's everybody :) |
| 23:41.41 | fareast | I am going to point the bios to the usb |
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| 23:42.05 | fareast | from my understanding most bios will boot from fat32 but not ntfs |
| 23:42.08 | agio | Ede|Popede: find what? |
| 23:42.13 | Ede|Popede | to the stick, yes (F12 for the boot menu on my other PC). but *where* on the stick is the bood record? |
| 23:42.17 | Ede|Popede | * boot |
| 23:42.21 | scatterbrainz | fareast: you trying to install debian? |
| 23:42.25 | fareast | sure |
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| 23:42.35 | Ede|Popede | scatterbrainz: debian's up and running, only coffee level is too low as usual |
| 23:42.46 | scatterbrainz | ah |
| 23:43.00 | fareast | I am going to do this fellas |
| 23:43.10 | scatterbrainz | i was watchin a tube video on .. .linode ...apparently it can mask your public IP ? |
| 23:43.12 | fareast | <--- technician |
| 23:43.23 | scatterbrainz | fareast: can i ask you a daft question? |
| 23:43.27 | agio | for BIOS the MBR exists in the 1st 512 bytes of the blck device |
| 23:43.38 | scatterbrainz | did you by chance use etcher to create a bootable ISO ? |
| 23:43.38 | fareast | agio thanks |
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| 23:43.48 | Brigo | https://www.turnkeylinux.org/blog/iso2usb |
| 23:43.48 | fareast | I didn't use that |
| 23:43.53 | scatterbrainz | :) |
| 23:44.00 | fareast | I just used some other open source writer |
| 23:44.03 | scatterbrainz | that's how I did it |
| 23:44.12 | fareast | whatever came up in the distros software repo |
| 23:44.18 | scatterbrainz | it took me a while, but I got debian on raid1 |
| 23:44.19 | scatterbrainz | :) |
| 23:44.46 | hypn0 | was it worth it :-/ |
| 23:44.51 | fareast | I have gotten different flavors of linux on my toaster but try dual booting win10 forget it. |
| 23:44.52 | agio | you can use syslinux to install a 2nd stage of the bootloader in to a FAT partition- which contains debian installer |
| 23:44.56 | fareast | they botch the bootloader |
| 23:45.04 | fareast | at uefi level |
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| 23:45.18 | fareast | have they fixed that yet? |
| 23:45.32 | fareast | since you know microsoft loves linux right... |
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| 23:45.34 | scatterbrainz | hypn0 > yes only because I refuse to be defeated |
| 23:45.36 | scatterbrainz | LOLOL |
| 23:45.38 | rocketmagnet | hi everyone |
| 23:45.52 | Ede|Popede | fareast: you got your own cylon? wow ;) |
| 23:45.52 | rocketmagnet | what libraries do i need to have 3d support for my nvidia driver ? |
| 23:46.07 | rocketmagnet | the installer tells me he can't find a destination for the libraries |
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| 23:46.18 | rocketmagnet | what 32bit libs do i need ? |
| 23:47.02 | fareast | yeah i have this evil robot demon on my shoulder it always tells me what to do. |
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| 23:48.03 | fareast | I am similar to linus when he says he is too aggressive and ends up hurting people. lol |
| 23:48.04 | Ede|Popede | agio: what would be the most painless method to do a multiboot? would it be enough to throw a iso to the stick and modify grub.cfg? |
| 23:48.29 | scatterbrainz | can apache hide my public ip? |
| 23:48.34 | fareast | smart people are like poodles you can tell them to do something and they will look at you like "why should i" |
| 23:48.39 | fareast | lol |
| 23:49.08 | agio | Ede|Popede: multiboot of what the installers? or actual OS's? |
| 23:49.23 | fareast | I am just playing i respect your guys opinions I might not agree with them but I respect them. |
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| 23:50.00 | Ede|Popede | agio: live images. just to be able to compare them without the need of a box full of stix. or to have some of them on the keychain or so |
| 23:50.23 | rocketmagnet | i found the soution on the web |
| 23:50.29 | rocketmagnet | thanks anyway |
| 23:51.13 | fareast | ok this is what I want to know I get to the boot menu select "Graphical Install" and it just pauses there on the boot menu? |
| 23:51.18 | fareast | is it doing something in background? |
| 23:52.02 | Ede|Popede | i guess it is unpacking the image for the graphic install |
| 23:52.06 | scatterbrainz | my head hurts |
| 23:52.10 | fareast | that is my guess |
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| 23:52.19 | fareast | but why not breakout a shell and show it? |
| 23:52.19 | Ede|Popede | don't remember how long it took here when i used it |
| 23:52.45 | fareast | usb 2.0 patience... lol |
| 23:52.57 | fareast | yeah there it is |
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| 23:53.39 | agio | Ede|Popede: right, yes. you need to configure the bootloader to jump into each live ISO's kernel, initramfs and root fileles system |
| 23:53.42 | scatterbrainz | can someone help me out with some server questions? |
| 23:53.48 | fareast | it always seems like november I start installing linux distros. |
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| 23:54.06 | Brigo | !anyone |
| 23:54.07 | dpkg | Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>. |
| 23:54.40 | Ede|Popede | agio. thanks. that makes it easier to finally start it. did it before, but no idea how long ago. don't even remember the images i've put onto the stick (or still a dvd?) :> |
| 23:54.43 | Brigo | rocketmagnet, you need the nvidia-driver package from the non-free repository |
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| 23:55.04 | scatterbrainz | if i'm running debian and I have apache2, and maria/mysql: how would I make a cloud server, that I could copy a database to, would that sit on apache? or sit by itself, and how would node-express/jsx - work with apache ....? if someone can help me with some detailed info :) |
| 23:55.04 | fareast | I think this graphics card is going to be a serious hurdle. |
| 23:55.25 | rocketmagnet | whats the runtime that init the network interfaces ? init 3 ? |
| 23:55.44 | fareast | looks like one of those hp dual monitor cards the old ones. |
| 23:56.01 | fareast | I think it might be a radeon of some sorrt. |
| 23:56.35 | Brigo | rocketmagnet, not in debian, anyway, with systemd there is not init stages anymore but "targets" |
| 23:56.43 | Ede|Popede | scatterbrainz: i'd say let some serverside scripts running on apache use the db. and allow local access to it only. iirc this is also what the mysql book stated i've read years ago |
| 23:56.50 | Brigo | rocketmagnet, maybe graphic.target is what you are looking for. |
| 23:57.06 | Ede|Popede | scatterbrainz: and never forget lil bobby tables |
| 23:57.21 | rocketmagnet | Brigo: i'm using the binary drivers |
| 23:57.45 | Brigo | rocketmagnet, ? |
| 23:58.03 | Brigo | you mean not from debian? |
| 23:59.24 | scatterbrainz | ok, but node-express does that sit on apache? |
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