IRC log for #debian on 20180824

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01:41.50*** topic/#debian is Debian Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.5 ; /msg dpkg jessie->stretch ; /msg dpkg install stretch | Oldstable: Debian Jessie /msg dpkg jessie ; /msg dpkg 8.11 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing, unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog
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01:44.28Neobenedicthia with https://wiki.debian.org/Bonding if i bond 4 ethernet ports together
01:44.34Neobenedictall 4 have the same IP, but differnet mac addresses?
01:44.35Neobenedicthow does it work
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01:51.53pav5088Neobenedict, I believe it's supported at the network layer, and the router just sends packets to all four interfaces...  probably in a round-robin fashion.
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02:05.43rantanyone know how this load firmware thing works on the installer? its asking for iwlwifi-7260-17.ucode which I just installed firmware-iwlwifi on my other machine and copied /lib/firmware/iwlwifi-7260-17.ucode to a thumbdrive and put it in the machine thats installing and it doesnt seem to be finding it
02:07.45rantoverwrites his installer with the firmware installer image
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02:58.50r_riosHello, all. The libtxc-dxtn-s2tc0 and libtxc-dxtn-s2tc0:i386 packages are necessary for Steam to work properly. Without them, a lot of steam games get black backgrounds and images, redering them unplayable. However, these packages are not steam dependencies. Where should I report this bug?
02:58.58r_riosSource: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2359316
03:00.25rantr_rios: report it to whoever maintains the package, its not a debian issue
03:01.45r_riosrant: Where do I find the maintainer?
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03:08.09usneyI am trying to share my internet connection via wifi from a wired connection
03:08.09usneyI have it setup on my ubuntu box
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03:10.07rantrjsalts: wherever you got the package, or in the package's information field.. I can't help you its not a debian package
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03:10.14rantr_rios: ^
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03:12.54r_riosrant: It *is* a Debian package
03:14.04r_riosI wouldn't be asking for help in the Debian channel if it wasn't
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04:41.59usneyhow do I connect to wifi via command line?
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04:46.13usneyhttps://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse#Command_Line I am following this guide and it doesn't work
04:46.27usneyall it does is turn on my wifi light
04:46.48usneyiwlist command not found
04:49.52symtexusney: try "iw list"
04:50.13usneyiw command not found
04:50.23usneydo I need wireless tools installed?
04:53.10symtexusney: yea apt install wireless-tools
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05:05.35usneystill having problems connecting
05:06.52a0zusney: i use the network-manager package (nmcli) to manage wifi connections on my laptop
05:08.22usneyI am trying to connect from command line
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05:09.54Svetasomething keeps eating my disk space, i had 200MB free yesterday and today it's 0 bytes free in /. how can i see which files were modified in the last 12 hours?
05:10.02a0zusney: nmcli is network-manager's command line app
05:10.34Svetathere is 'nmtui' also
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05:18.36warai_otokoHappy Birthday, IRC! ^^
05:18.54Svetawarai_otoko, really? you mean 25 years of debian?
05:19.05Svetahi :)
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06:29.41pav5088I want to be able to give machines static IPs without rebooting.  I've tried manually shutting down the network service, and also dhclient, but eth0 comes up again with a dhcp address automatically.  The network configuration part of the Debian page doesn't seem to help.
06:30.03pav5088Any ideas as to what's going on?
06:30.29pav5088The old ways, and what I've found of "new" ways seem to not work.
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06:46.43jelly-homepav5088: which network services are you shutting down?  Can you add an "iface inet ... static" setting in /etc/network/interfaces, then ifdown and ifup that interface?
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06:48.03jelly-homeer, iface ... inet static
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07:02.19Neobenedictyou could always uninstall the dhcp software. lol.
07:02.24Neobenedictbut that shouldn't be needed
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07:47.58]BFG[strech is up to 9.5 nice, to see
07:48.17]BFG[any plans on removing the piece of shit systemd?
07:49.58Ozzyboshidont think so
07:50.08Ozzyboshigo to devone
07:50.57diogenes_ok MX Linux
07:50.59diogenes_or*
07:51.56]BFG[I already switched to Devuan and FreeBSD but would be nice to see Debian 10 systemd free by default even if this means throwing out gnome
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07:54.00themillyou can run debian without systemd just fine; troll elsewhere, kthnxbye.
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08:30.39]BFG[themill I do run debian without malwared yes but I want to see it gone, completely be removed from github and not being forced down on our throats
08:30.50]BFG[because if you put it in by default companies will use it by default as well
08:31.03]BFG[and you will not have the chance to keep your life shitd free
08:31.16]BFG[i hope pottering will fucking die with his worthless colleagues
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08:45.20petn-randallOh, another flat-earther^W^Wsystemd hater visiting our channel. How original.
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09:12.07blackflowoh, my!
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09:21.36wrksxI just read some comments from people disliking systemd
09:22.40wrksxlike "Systemd is bad. Too complex, too dependencies, to unstability. It's a very problem for production server"
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09:23.16wrksxI wonder what are they doin to there server so systemd make it UNSTABLE
09:23.27wrksxthere/their
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09:26.48tichunAny ideas to change xorg display blanking with a raspberry pi specific vcgencmd display_power 0 and 1?
09:27.30jelly-homewrksx: that might have been a couple years back
09:27.30blackflowwrksx: it's simple. default configuration sux, especially in debian that still does "start stop daemon" inside nginx service unit file.... (ffs!). People stumble upon problems caused by default configs and instead of learning things and fixing for their use case, they have breakage and grow hate.
09:28.08jelly-homesysadmins do not like changing things that still work
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09:49.58opalwhy do downgrades almost always result in dependency issues in debian
09:50.08opalunrecoverable dependency issues at that
09:50.40opali mask all "newer" packages in apt and run `apt update && apt upgrade` and even that results in a load of issues
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10:00.38petn-randallopal: Maybe because downgrades are not supported.
10:00.41petn-randall!downgrade
10:00.41dpkgDowngrading is not, nor will ever be supported by apt.  Programs change their data in a way that can't be rolled back, and package maintainer scripts support upgrades to new config file formats but not downgrades.  Try: "dpkg -i olderversion.deb" or "aptitude install package=version" using "apt-cache policy package" to get the old version number.  See also <partial downgrade>, <unstable->testing>, <sdo>.
10:04.12opal!testing
10:04.13dpkgTesting is a continuously updated release between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed <buster>. See http://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting . Support in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net and ask me about <testing faq> <jessie->stretch> <testing security> <moving target> <apt-listchanges> <apt-listbugs> and <bts>. You need a sound knowledge of Debian and be prepared for a very bumpy ride. Don't use it on things that are critical!
10:04.37opallovely
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10:05.05genesishi, i need to get https://sources.debian.org/src/mbrola/3.01h+2-3/debian/ as a tarball on another distro, i don't know well debian, how to do ?
10:06.48petn-randallgenesis: You can get the upstream source from their website: http://tcts.fpms.ac.be/synthesis/
10:07.09petn-randallgenesis: The Debian source package is just the upstream source + bits to get it working in Debian.
10:07.24genesisyes i'd like to get your libstrongexit stuff
10:07.56genesisand others things you provides for my nixos recipe.
10:08.08petn-randallgenesis: Just run 'apt-get source mbrola' if you run Debian, or you can find it here: https://packages.debian.org/source/sid/mbrola
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10:10.11genesisthe tarball here is not the source i gave link
10:11.01genesisho oki fine
10:11.12petn-randallgenesis: It's in the diff.gz
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10:11.34genesishttp://http.debian.net/debian/pool/non-free/m/mbrola/mbrola_3.01h+2-3.debian.tar.xz this works
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10:12.11genesisyou have made a manpage so :o)
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10:15.56no_gravityHello! Does anybody know how to forward a port with iptables?
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10:48.19petn-randallno_gravity: Probably many people do.
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10:49.54petn-randallno_gravity: Depends on the details though, meaning: From which to which port, is the forward in the same or a different network, etc.
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10:50.44no_gravitypetn-randall: I treid for like half an hour and gave up on it. Seems to be overly complex.
10:51.07no_gravityThis works nicely: ssh -L 81:1.2.3.4:81 1.2.3.4
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10:53.03petn-randallno_gravity: That forwards your local port 81 to the remote port 81 on host 1.2.3.4
10:53.12no_gravityYes
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11:21.15dasdajs_Hi people. I've been trying to grow a raid5 array with mdadm and now after I got that working I now seem to have problems with my ext3 partitions om the raid array, when I use fsck.ext3 it tells me: "The superblock could not be read or does not describe a valid ext2/ext3/ext4 filesystem" - I've been searching the web and the answers I've found doesn't help. I haven't overwritten the partition at any point so its weird why the
11:21.15dasdajs_superblock is gone. So how do I recover this partition?
11:22.14jelly-homedo you have the original partition tables and md layout saved?
11:22.20petn-randallHi, I'd like to replace the aging backup solution with rdiff-backup with something more modern. My pet peeve with rdiff-backup is that it doesn't deduplicate, and recovering from a canceled backup takes *ages* (recovery + backup can easily take 10 hours from my local system). What are the cool kids using nowadays?
11:22.46jelly-homepetn-randall: I've read nice things about borgbackup
11:23.01dasdajs_jelly-home, before I started growing I made a backup-file but I don't know if that will suffice?
11:23.23jelly-homedasdajs_: maybe ask in #linux-raid about md things
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11:24.08dasdajs_jelly-home, I did, no one is answering atm, so i'm trying to reach more people
11:24.40petn-randalldasdajs_: How did you grow the raid5 exactly? What was the previous, and what the current layout?
11:24.52petn-randalldasdajs_: Also what metadata forward are you using?
11:25.14petn-randalldasdajs_: If you have the exact commands and output, please share them on https://paste.debian.net.
11:25.46jelly-homedasdajs_: be patient
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11:30.07dasdajs_petn-randall, I was using this as a source of material: https://raid.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Growing I did ran "mdadm --grow --raid-devices=4 --backup-file=/root/grow_md0.bak /dev/md0" so I had a reboot and after that the array was inactive so I reactivated it but creating the array again which seemed to work fine and then I did pvresize and after that my partitions was bad
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11:38.39petn-randalldasdajs_: How many devices were there before, how many after?
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11:40.42dasdajs_petn-randall, 3 before and 1 after in that array
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11:41.51jelly-homedasdajs_: uh, what do you mean "creating the array again", you would have just had to assemble ("start") it not create it anew
11:42.31jelly-homeif you did a create and ignored the warnings old metadata and old geometry would be lost
11:42.56petn-randallThat's the point where exact command and output are relevant.
11:43.23jelly-homeI'd probably just restore from backups and not bother
11:44.18dasdajs_jelly-home, The raid array was inactive and the only way I could "give life to it" was by creating the array again and I don't remember any warnings about metadata
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11:45.55petn-randalldasdajs_: *HOW* did you create it.
11:46.02jelly-home"whoopsies"
11:46.05petn-randallWe need exact commands + output.
11:46.08abrotman"A magnet..."
11:46.58dasdajs_with: "mdadm --create /dev/md0 --raid-devices=4 /dev/sdb /dev/sdc /dev/sdd /dev/sde1" (made a fuck up on the last drive sde)
11:48.14petn-randalldasdajs_: Yep, that killed your RAID. Restore from backups.
11:48.46dasdajs_jelly-home, I ofc was a hero and tried without any backup because I simply don't have any space to backup my data on, atm I really don't care any more about the data cause I been working on this problem for couple of days now :)
11:49.07petn-randalldasdajs_: If you have stored the mdadm headers from before, you can try to put them back in place and assemble the raid again.
11:49.09dasdajs_petn-randall, how to restore correctly then if I may ask? I have the backup-file
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11:49.23petn-randalldasdajs_: note that "assemble" and "create" are two very different things.
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11:49.33petn-randalldasdajs_: Backup file of what exactly?
11:49.59dasdajs_when doing the grow command
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11:50.16dasdajs_"mdadm --grow --raid-devices=4 --backup-file=/root/grow_md0.bak /dev/md0"
11:51.06petn-randalldasdajs_: That is a temporary backup so you can resume when the grow command crashes. That's not a backup of the headers.
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11:51.31spacedust<PROTECTED>
11:51.32dasdajs_petn-randall, ahhh.... I should've known that :>
11:52.15spacedusti have to thank debian , i am using a debian kernel to boot my non debian system, and it rocks the box :) virtualbox that is :)
11:52.28petn-randallspacedust: Congrat, I guess?
11:52.31petn-randallspacedust: Congrats, I guess?
11:53.08dasdajs_*The excitement when the problem was solved*
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11:54.49spacedusthail hail hail
11:56.02dasdajs_petn-randall, anyway so are the any possible way to restore the headers then?
11:56.14spacedusthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dll329ggLIY
11:56.19spacedustManowar - Warriors of the World
11:56.42spacedusthow could i get the full source in /usr/src ? ive got a very small sized directory
11:56.44petn-randalldasdajs_: If you don't have backups of the data or the mdadm headers, the data is gone.
11:57.20petn-randalldasdajs_: A recovery company might be able to restore the data by using heuristics to guess the stripe size and the layout, but that will likely cost.
11:58.44petn-randall*a lot.
11:59.13abrotmanspacedust: why are you spamming youtube URLs?
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11:59.58spacedustabrotman: 1 is spam ?
12:00.03abrotmanYes
12:00.06spacedustk
12:00.38petn-randallspacedust: The full source of what?
12:01.41spacedustpetn-randall: well the built kernel that boots with debian
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12:11.10dasdajs_petn-randall, aight, thanks for your answer :)
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12:28.50flaburganhi everyone
12:29.04flaburganwe just installed a fresh debian 9 and have trouble with redis
12:29.29flaburganapt-get install redis-server
12:30.12flaburganbut redis is unable to start
12:31.16flaburganhttps://pastebin.com/fmDaPkdZ
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12:32.12abrotmanflaburgan: and what's wrong with that log file?
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12:33.58flaburganwell I don't get why it can't write in it
12:34.23abrotmanflaburgan: ls -al /var/log/redis/
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12:35.15flaburganit's empty
12:35.34abrotmanthe directory?  what are the permissions on the directory?
12:35.42flaburgandrwxr-x---  2 redis redis 4096 Aug 24 14:19 .
12:35.42flaburgandrwxrwxrwx 10 root  root  4096 Aug 24 14:19 ..
12:35.46abrotman(that's why I asked .. )
12:35.58usneywhat's a lightweight dock I can use with openbox?
12:36.00flaburganwe tried to chmod to give access to redis
12:36.04abrotmanis it trying to run as a user other than redis ?
12:36.05usneyor panel
12:36.45flaburganhow can I know? I launch it with systemctl start redis-server
12:36.53abrotmanit might be in the conf file
12:37.04abrotmanor check /etc/passwd to see what users are in there
12:37.14awal1usney, tint2.
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12:38.05blackflowflaburgan: any filesystem restrictions in the unit service file? apparmor rules?
12:38.06awal1highly configurable and have rich features. also very lightweight
12:38.16awal1designed for openbox
12:39.18abrotmanflaburgan: you could make the dir 777 and see if it starts .. see who owns the log file then, change perms as necessary .. or if it still fails, see what is going on.
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12:41.22dasdajs_Is ZFS preferable over mdadm or are there anything better?
12:41.52blackflowI'd say yes.
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12:42.26blackflowbut it really depends on what problem you really want to solve. for me, I say ZFS all the things. that might not be optimal.
12:42.29genesispetn-randall : thx for help, i finally get it works https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/45580/files
12:42.29dasdajs_blackflow, I've read that alot of ppl thinks that mdam is better because its older?
12:42.42blackflowdasdajs_: then drop debian for DOS? it's older :)
12:42.47awal1,v redis-server
12:42.48juddPackage: redis-server on amd64 -- wheezy: 2:2.4.14-1; wheezy-security: 2:2.4.14-1+deb7u2; jessie: 2:2.8.17-1+deb8u5; jessie-security: 2:2.8.17-1+deb8u5; stretch: 3:3.2.6-1; stretch-security: 3:3.2.6-3+deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 3:3.2.6-3+deb9u2; jessie-backports: 3:3.2.8-2~bpo8+1; stretch-backports: 5:4.0.10-1~bpo9+1; buster: 5:4.0.11-2; sid: 5:4.0.11-2; experimental:
12:42.49judd5:5.0~rc4-2
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12:43.17awal1#900496
12:43.20flaburganhere is the output of apt-get if it helps https://pastebin.com/H1PhsF5z
12:43.52dasdajs_blackflow, well.. I don't think you can draw a analogy between those :) But Yes i'm aware. Can you tell me, why do you like ZFS better?
12:44.33blackflowdasdajs_: data checksumming, snapshots, pooled fs.
12:44.36flaburganabrotman, in /etc/systemd/system/redis.service user is redis and group is redis
12:44.57awal1flaburgan, not sure if #900496 is related. I just did a fast bts search
12:45.51flaburganit looks like the problem comes from the service, if I run `redis-server` as root, redis starts
12:45.52dasdajs_blackflow, data check summing is also the reason i'm considering it, cause of awsomeness
12:46.33flaburganhm, if I try to launch it as the redis user, it tells me "Lauching the db permission denied"
12:46.34blackflowdasdajs_: alternatively there's btrfs too. but.... there's a rather disconcerting set of warnings attached to it: https://wiki.debian.org/Btrfs#Warnings
12:46.44flaburganawal1, can I please have the url?
12:47.08blackflowdasdajs_: frankly, snapshotting is way awesomer :)  snapshot, send|recv, boom bam thank you ma'am, win!
12:47.18blackflowbug #900496
12:47.26blackflowhuh, I thought the bot parsed that.
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12:47.40flaburgan!bug #900496
12:47.43awal1https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=%23900496
12:47.49flaburganthx
12:47.50dasdajs_blackflow, Ye oke, I'll have to check that out :b
12:49.25flaburganawal1, looks related, though it's not only a wishlist in my case, but a bug
12:49.54awal1i have no idea. i dont use any server
12:50.28ayekatis looking forward to 'debian-overflow' stepping above 1023
12:51.19ayekatthen again, 10 bits is not really something where things overflow... sorry for the noise
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12:51.22blackflowflaburgan: can you pastebin your redis-server.service? any overrides? the default runs with ReadonlyDirectories=/ and needs an override for varlog (which the default has)
12:53.28flaburganhttps://pastebin.com/XzztrB4u
12:57.51blackflowflaburgan: looks default. you're not overriding it in /etc/systemd/?
12:58.28blackflowflaburgan: you can check with   systemctl cat redis-server.service and compare with config in /lib
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13:01.47flaburganblackflow, I didn't change anything, the server has been installed this morning so I don't think there is any override
13:03.18blackflowflaburgan: well, it WorksForMe(tm), so I guess it boils down to what kind of additional/different config you have there. Aside from the usual filesystem permissions, is there an AppArmor profile? SELinux? any ACLs?
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13:04.59abrotmanflaburgan: if you haven't done anything with it .. you could purge the package/config, and start over ?
13:05.58flaburganabrotman, yep, that's what I did without success
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13:06.16abrotmanany "-common" packages that might need to be purged also?
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13:12.06flaburganyes selinux is installed
13:12.45blackflowflaburgan: is it enabled? what's `getenforce` returning? anything in audit wrt that redis log path? a denial?
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13:18.16flaburganlibselinux1 is installed, but the command getenforce does not exist
13:18.58pav5088Is aptitude no longer installed by default in Stretch?
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13:22.29pav5088I installed the default debian utilities, but aptitude doesn't seem to have been installed.
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13:24.09flaburganI tried to install redis on my local machine, debian 9 too, worked without any problem... I guess there's something on that server causing the pb
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13:40.11sachHi, I am looking for some help with PAM rules. I have a bunch of LDAP accounts using sssd and a couple of local accounts configured. My current configuration (also the default generated) http://termbin.com/unv5
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13:41.57sachResults in a whole bunch of authentication failure messages when LDAP users don't pass the first pam_unix.so line. I can switch it around but then local account logins give me those errors then. I've tried a bunch of things but none work perfectly and I want to be 100% I am not impacting the security of the system. Any help would be great.
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13:53.44flaburganthe problem was the symlink with /var/log to /home/log
13:54.08flaburganeven if access rights were correct
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14:25.38awal1how can I project my android phone screen on my debian?
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14:27.07flaburganawal1, what do you mean by project?
14:27.28flaburganI have my android phone screen displayed inside Firefox to debug webpage
14:27.37flaburganyou could do that
14:27.43dansanHello!  I don't suppose there's a nifty way to boot into the livecd and then change the overlay's working dir to something persistient is there?
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14:28.25awal1if I watch something in youtube, see on chromium/firefox, watch in on my debian laptop (without 3d party software)
14:28.27awal1flaburgan
14:28.52awal1if I watch something in youtube, say on chromium/firefox, watch it on my debian laptop (without 3d party software)
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14:29.30kskas android is third party software to start with, Id imagine that is not possible
14:29.41awal1hm
14:29.52kskyou can plugin an chromestick into your TV/monitor and stream to that
14:30.06awal1chromestick?
14:30.57awal1ok, googled it
14:31.25flaburganyep, chromecast
14:32.04awal1will check that
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14:32.17kskrecent vlc version can also stream to a chromecast
14:33.01kskbe careful about the vendor lockin before buying ;) before vlc you could only really stream from a chrome browser afaik
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14:33.47awal1ok
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14:34.19awal1it is just because i have internet only on my mobile, but i dont like browse web with phone
14:35.04awal1<PROTECTED>
14:35.52awal1i leave in the woods right now:P
14:36.10awal1far from capitalism bills :D
14:36.57Haohmaruwhere no one can hear you scream
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14:38.30flaburganawal1, in that case, use your mobile as a modem
14:38.41flaburganplug it with usb to your computer and share your internet connection
14:38.44flaburganthat's way easier
14:39.02jhutchins_wkYou can also often make a mobile phone a wifi hotspot.
14:40.03awal1ok, will check that. looks more interesting. thanks
14:40.52awal1Haohmaru, looks like scream hard sometimes is healthy :P
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14:41.27awal1and it is exceptional in woods with the fantastic resonance :D
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14:47.23DammitJimdo you guys know if apcupsd turns off the server by default when there are 5 minutes left of power or if that's something that needs to be configured?
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15:03.51petn-randalldansan: IIRC you need to configure what it does, look it up in the config.
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15:05.00dasdajs_blackflow, if the situation is that I only have 16gb of mem in my server, would you still think that ZFS is a good solution over mdadm? I need it to run some vms also so i'm kinda limited
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15:26.02DammitJimpetn-randall, that comment wasn't for me, right?
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15:26.38petn-randallDammitJim: Oh sorry, mishighlight. That was for you.
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15:26.57DammitJimoh ok, so it's not default. Thanks!
15:27.07DammitJim(I don't want it to shut my machine off at this time)
15:27.20KaltigkHey all. I'm on stretch and having some trouble with my USB 2.0 ports. - nothing plugged in to them seems to be recognized or receive power after Debian boots, though my USB 3.0 ports work fine. When I boot I receive an error message "usb 4-2 device descriptor read/64, error -32" several times preceded by different decimal numbers in brackets. I've looked through errno.h but couldn't locate 32. Anyone have any recommendations
15:27.20Kaltigkon where I could find more info on what that error means?
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15:30.25petn-randallKaltigk: From experience, that usually happens if you plug in a device that requires more power than the port can deliver.
15:30.38petn-randallKaltigk: The other option would be faulty wiring.
15:31.28petn-randallKaltigk: A well-behaved USB device would ask for more power, and if it doesn't get it, notify the system that it won't work. But from experience many devices aren't cleanly implemented to do that.
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15:35.12KaltigkHmm. The problem seems to occur specifically once I've booted Debian oddly. The machine dual boots and the ports work fine when booted in Windows, and I'm able to boot from usb devices plugged into those ports which makes me think it's something specific to how my machine is interacting with Debian - definitely could be wrong though
15:35.50KaltigkI can't find any description for that error code though, so I'm kind of in the dark
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15:37.14petn-randallKaltigk: If you coldboot into Debian, do the port work fine?
15:37.24petn-randall*ports
15:39.41KaltigkSorry I'm not familiar with the term, do you mean from a completely powered down state?
15:39.59Moussayes
15:40.14petn-randallKaltigk: Yes, it means that it's powered off, and then you turn it on. As opposed to rebooting in Windows and then selecting Debian in the bootloader.
15:40.35KaltigkGotcha. Yes, I've tried that without change
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15:42.25KaltigkI also previously had another distro (Mint) installed alongside at one point, and the ports all seemed to work there as well if that provides any useful info.
15:43.05Moussai had a problem with my USB, but different error, was a time out related, the USB bus would freeze
15:43.44Moussasetting the BIOS to IDE from AHCI seems to fix the problem for me
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15:46.19petn-randallMoussa: I wouldn't know how that would even affect the system, other than making it unbootable.
15:46.40petn-randallMoussa: IDE/AHCI setting is for the storage controller, which is a different chip than the USB controller.
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15:47.37Moussawell neither why debian wont boot unless a single hd is plugged into the satas port
15:47.48Moussasata*
15:48.14Moussaboot from USB
15:48.40Moussaweird stuff
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15:50.06KaltigkIt seems able to boot to a Debian live image on USB from the USB 2.0 ports, and will respond at the splash screen (for instance,  I can select install, or rescue, etc), but as soon as I select an option, it stops responding if the device is plugged into one of those ports
15:50.28KaltigkSorry, not a live image, just the installer media*
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15:50.51Moussathat exactly what i was having
15:51.38Moussai used netinstall iso as usual
15:51.59KaltigkHmm. I'll check out the UEFI options I have and see if changing those helps. Right now it's set to AHCI
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15:52.38Moussai disabeld UEFI on mine
15:53.17Moussadebian now is installed on a 16gb usb2 stick
15:53.21DammitJimhow do you say UEFI? I say You-EF-Eye
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15:54.03petn-randallDammitJim: That would spell UFI.
15:54.09greycatIn my head, it has always been "you ee eff eye".
15:54.55Moussaand tomorrow we will build the zfs raid 5x2tb
15:55.09Moussaanother dilemma i hope not
15:55.12KaltigkThat seems related to the issue for me. I have mine set to UEFI only now, which is how I've installed Debian. When I had Mint installed it was in legacy mode, with the boards IOMMU controller enabled, which seemed to affect the USB ports. When I enable the IOMMU controlled now though Debian is unable to boot
15:55.18deicide-anyone here knows his way around torrents?
15:55.55deicide-i'm having some really bad time trying to migrate
15:56.10deicide-which makes me "jailed" to windows
15:56.16petn-randalldeicide-: No surveys please, just straight ask your question.
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15:56.51deicide-trying to migrate 1000 linus iso's torrents from windows to linux petn-randall
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15:56.57deicide-linux*
15:57.34petn-randalldeicide-: You mean you're seeding them and want to do the same on Linux?
15:57.51deicide-i guess
15:58.27petn-randalldeicide-: I'd go with one of the many torrent daemons. Then just dump the downloaded files into one dir, and the torrents into the incoming dir.
15:59.34deicide-i did that then manually change the location since its different then windows and then did force recheck and 99% of them stay at 0%
16:00.08greycatI'm not understanding "manually change the location since it's different than Windows"
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16:01.30deicide-example d:/downloads to /media/user/downloads
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16:02.15greycatBut... you just put the .torrent file and the .iso file in some place on Linux and then point the Torrent program at it.
16:03.10deicide-whats the "appdata" version of linux again?
16:03.23deicide-i don't get what you mean greycat
16:03.33greycatWhich Torrent program are you using?
16:03.43deicide-qbitorrent
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16:04.09deicide-used to used utorrent for years until recently
16:04.11greycatNo such pkg in apt-cache search.
16:04.52petn-randallgreycat: qbittorrent
16:05.03greycatoh, but qbittorrent exists ... says it depends on libqt, so it's probably graphical.
16:05.07greycatSounds painful.
16:05.27petn-randalldeicide-: I don't know qbittorrent, but with transmission and rtorrent you can just define an incoming dir for the *.torrent, and a destination dir where all the stuff is downloaded to.
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16:06.39deicide-what would you suggest for how does one(a really noob one) migrate torrents from windows to linux?
16:06.51greycatpetn-randall has told you a couple times already
16:07.12deicide-i'm not familiar with either software
16:07.14greycat1) choose a non-graphical Torrent program; 2) choose a place to put the files; 3) run the Torrent program in such a way that it snatches up all the files
16:07.34deicide-i have to have gui
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16:08.11petn-randalldeicide-: transmission also has a gui.
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16:08.24greycatThen you'll have to bang your head against the graphical interface of your chosen program until you find whatever knob or button makes it read & seed the .torrent files.
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16:09.23deicide-how do i view the .config folder?
16:09.43greycatEvery Torrent program is different and has its own things.  I don't know what a ".config folder" is.
16:10.09greycatMaybe you mean the ~/.config directory, which many programs use.  In that case, "ls -l ~/.config" or whatever.
16:10.18deicide-i accessed it one time, its exactly like appdata on windows
16:10.34greycatSounds like you mean the ~/.config directory.
16:11.13deicide-oh yes thank you
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16:13.53jhutchins_wkdeicide-:  http://www.linuxcommand.org/ https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicCommands http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/05/20/terminal1.html http://www.ischool.berkeley.edu/~kevin/unix-tutorial/toc.html  http://linuxcommand.org/lc3_learning_the_shell.php  http://linuxcommand.org/tlcl.php
16:15.08awal1deicide-, which kind of stuff you want to download via torrent?
16:15.20Moussanot sure, but i recall transmission had a gui web interface, but i could be wrong
16:15.26greycatNear as we can tell, he has the files already and he wants to seed them.
16:15.31awal1transmission-gtk is good
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16:15.39deicide-there are more hidden . folders, how do i view them
16:15.46greycatls -a
16:15.50deicide-".folders"
16:16.04MoussaMC is your friend
16:16.07awal1or ctrl-. in your file manager
16:16.37Moussai meant midnight commander
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16:17.00annadanemc feels clunky imo if you can do things via cli
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16:17.30awal1pcmannfm ctrl-.  , thunar ctrl-h nit sure about nautilus/dolphin
16:18.04deicide-awal1 i have recently migrated to debian from linux(still dual booting on different drive windows) and i have 1000 active seeded torrents i'm trying to migrate them to linux
16:18.12KaltigkMoussa: It was a UEFI setting! Thanks for pointing me there. I had to enable IOMMU controller AND edit /etc/default/grub to make grub play nice with the new setting, but all the ports are working now!
16:18.12deicide-from windows*
16:18.58MoussaKaltigk, as i said weird stuff :-)
16:19.02greycatChoosing the right Torrent program will probably be the most important part.
16:19.18Moussanot a problem
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16:23.05awal1deicide-, i just use transmission-gtk for download debian images, usually; not familiar with torrents stuff.
16:23.38awal1'mktorrent' will help you. check things using apt/apt-cache/aptitude
16:23.53awal1"aptitude search torrent" for start
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16:24.19awal1'mktorrent' will help you maybe?
16:24.35greycatI'd start with the programs that received the most recommendations here, first.
16:24.59awal1i think transmission-gtk is very popular
16:25.29jellydeicide-: which torrent client do you use on the old OS?
16:25.34Moussai 2nd that, and i do not use torrent
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16:26.10Moussai had a small play with it
16:28.22Moussaand AFAIR, it had a nice GUI web interface
16:28.31twrtorrent, deluge, and transmission are pretty much your options.
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16:32.06deicide-qbitorrent
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16:32.44deicide-brb
16:34.58tw,v qbittorrent
16:34.59juddPackage: qbittorrent on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.9.8-1; wheezy-security: 2.9.8-1+deb7u1; jessie: 3.1.10-1; stretch: 3.3.7-3; buster: 4.0.3-1; sid: 4.0.3-1
16:35.27greycatIt depends on libqt which is a big red flag in my book.
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16:36.40jellyQt apps typically do that, yes
16:37.14twthere's a -nox version for headless use.
16:37.18twalso in stretch.
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16:48.15deicide-i'm back, ragequit to windows
16:50.28dasdajs_deicide-, Welcome to a rational world <3
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16:52.48deicide-its just painful to work with that os
16:52.58deicide-especially when nothing works for me
16:53.33jhutchins_wkdeicide-: Did you get those links I posted to you earlier?
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16:54.10deicide-no cause they were not related to my problems
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16:54.47ctcxIf needing to make a script with a menu of choices, what's the difference between using "case" and "select"? I could not see many...
16:55.02greycatctcx: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ/115
16:55.20ctcxAh thanks.
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16:59.17drithhello, can anyone confirm on latest debian testing
16:59.18drithdmesg
16:59.18drithdmesg: read kernel buffer failed: Operation not permitted
16:59.33greycatThat's in stretch, too, if you aren't root.
16:59.38greycathttps://wiki.debian.org/NewInStretch
17:00.03drithdidn't knew that, coming from debian 8, thanks
17:00.04ctcxActually I would not need something like GUI to use dialog... Could it be usage of whether "case" or "select" is a matter of just style?
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17:00.47greycat"select" is a shell builtin that gives you a very primitive menu in precisely one format.  No flexibility.  If that's good enough, then fine.
17:01.01greycat"case" has nothing to do with menus at all.
17:01.08drithalso "su" without " -" will not change environment variables?
17:01.18greycatdrith: THAT is new in testing, not stretch.
17:01.24greycatErr, wait.
17:01.53greycatThe part about it not changing PATH is new in testing.  Not changing *other* env vars is standard behavior.
17:02.15drithok, thanks
17:04.06ctcxOk, thanks.
17:04.12drithsu can launch synaptic but "su -" (synaptic:20062): Gtk-WARNING **: 20:03:17.783: cannot open display:
17:05.13greycat"su -" clears your environment including DISPLAY
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17:05.48drithAlright, that explains it, I was so used by just su...
17:06.10greycatYeah, I don't think the people who made this change in testing really appreciate just how huge a change it is.
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17:07.16greycatI don't want to put anything on a NewInBuster page for it yet, because they might just decide to tweak the config file to make it default to the prior behavior.  Or not, who knows.
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17:08.18drithgreycat, can you give a link if there exists, for that last change?
17:08.28drithforum or something
17:08.29greycatA what?
17:08.36greycatA mailing list discussion?
17:08.37drithabout the su - part
17:08.56greycathttps://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/08/msg00487.html
17:09.01drithyes mailing list is good also
17:09.12drithgreycat, thank you
17:11.18drithGoing to change /etc/login.defs , i can't deal with this change at least for now...
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17:12.37zerocoolhi yall
17:13.52dasdajs_deicide-, I totally agree.. Ran linux and bsd only for years but had to install windows because of gaming and only hours after using it I was close to going back...
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17:29.25phalloidGreetings!  Today, I will tell you all the true story of how global relations ended up in the shitter.
17:29.44phalloidOnce upon a time, there was a savage, violent man.  His IQ was about 43, and he loved sex with lots of women. His name was Mohamed...
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17:30.35deicide-dasdajs_ ive been using windows for 20 years and linux less than few weeks(total time, have it for a year now)
17:30.40ctcxgreycat: still reading the wooledge bash wiki. But still, "case" having nothing to do with menus? So using it is actually an "unorthodox" practice?
17:30.45deicide-its really hard for me to do the switch
17:31.14deicide-meanwhile this is what i need to deal with https://old.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/98maf8/windows_10_sends_your_data_5500_times_every_day/
17:31.33greycatcase in bash is just like switch in C.  It lets you compare one value against a bunch of patterns or strings and then act on whichever thing it matches.
17:32.14greycatLike:    case $1 in start) systemctl start foobar;; stop) systemctl stop foobar;; esac
17:33.07NetTerminalGene,kernels
17:33.08juddAvailable kernel versions are: experimental: 4.18.0-rc5-686 (4.18~rc5-1~exp1); sid: 4.17.0-3-686 (4.17.17-1); buster: 4.17.0-3-686 (4.17.17-1); stretch-backports: 4.17.0-0.bpo.1-686 (4.17.8-1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-8-686-pae (4.9.110-3+deb9u4); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.7-686-pae (4.9.110-3+deb9u2~deb8u1); wheezy-
17:33.09juddbackports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1)
17:33.24phalloidLONG LIVE THE EVERLASTING EMPORIUM OF BIRDSHIT!
17:33.36*** mode/#debian [+o jelly] by ChanServ
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17:33.41*** mode/#debian [-o jelly] by ChanServ
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17:35.54indigobluis there any tools available on debian for packaging and running from different non-system paths?  I have used and packaged for Redhat's (SCL/softwarecollections.org) and trying to do the same on Debian.  Port SCL wrappers to Debian?
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17:36.36ctcxgreycat: apologizing beforehand for my ignorance, but that would sound for me like kind of a menu as well...
17:37.15greycatctcx: to me, a "menu" is a large prompt that is displayed to a user, and then the reading of a response from that user.  This is what "select" does.  It is NOT what "case" does.
17:37.38greycatcase is a programming logic statement, like if.
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17:38.04jellyI'd say flow control, not logic, but yeah
17:38.10greycatThe example I gave earlier could also have been written:   if test "$1" = start; then systemctl start foobar; elif test "$1" = stop; then systemctl stop foobar; fi
17:38.45RoyKgreycat: or use 'case'
17:38.52jellyRoyK: that was the context
17:38.57RoyKah
17:39.12RoyKsomehow fell out a couple of days, probably because of a split and +r
17:39.19greycatWe're trying to help ctcx see that case does not create a menu.
17:39.42jellywhips greycat's tail
17:39.48greycatYou could use case to act upon the user's response FROM a menu, but case does not actually CREATE the menu nor collect the user's response.
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17:44.55drithdoes anyone know whether virtualbox works on debian testing/buster?
17:45.18greycat!debian-next
17:45.18dpkg#debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode.  If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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17:47.30annadanedrith, define "works"... it may have bugs or not
17:47.44annadanethere's also one in backports if you need something newer (and you're already on stable), IIRC
17:47.46annadane,v virtualbox
17:47.47juddPackage: virtualbox on amd64 -- wheezy: 4.1.42-dfsg-1+deb7u1; wheezy-security: 4.1.42-dfsg-1+deb7u1; jessie/contrib: 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u1; jessie-security/contrib: 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u1; jessie-backports/contrib: 5.1.8-dfsg-7~bpo8+1; stretch-backports/contrib: 5.2.10-dfsg-6~bpo9+1; buster/contrib: 5.2.18-dfsg-1; sid/contrib: 5.2.18-dfsg-1
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17:48.05annadane(and if you ARE on stable in the first place don't add packages from testing or unstable)
17:48.36drithI am on testing, but thanks
17:49.40drithThe thing is that i have used debian for so many years but lately (last few years) testing feels more fragile. This my own opinion though.
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17:50.36jellythe percieved robustness of testing probably depends more on the release cycle than anything else
17:51.20jellybut its goal is to BE fragile, so YOU can file and fix bugs and it can become stable
17:51.44jellythat's why you're running testing, right?  Right?
17:51.56greycatCan't think of any other reason to do it.
17:52.12drithjelly, that is one reason, also i have latest ryzen cpu...
17:52.18greycatIf you wanted "stuff with higher numbers but still usually works" you'd just run unstable instead.
17:52.52jellydrith: and in a year or so, normal users will be able to buy ryzen and run Debian, too.  Thank you for your relentless effort.
17:53.18ctcxThen, if reasoning correctly, both could be used depending on how one creates the "menu". I was first thinking of displaying whole menu just with echoes then using read command.
17:53.57greycatIt is common to use case AFTER the user has selected something from a menu.  Regardless of how the menu was presented.
17:54.07ctcxBut then I read things like "select" are able to kind of create the menu itself without echoes.
17:54.15greycatThat part is correct.
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17:54.49greycatselect is an alternative to echo; echo; echo; echo; while read ... done
17:55.11ctcxDamn, in bash it's slightly more complicated than I thought, in the sense there's *more* than one option to do this
17:55.14jellyI guess if you had a GUI widget library you might bind pieces of code directly to UI elements for making the choice (say, buttons)
17:55.30ctcxIn Windows I remember I just used echoes, set, and gotos
17:55.35greycatThat's a whole different kind of programming than shell scripts.
17:55.49jhutchins_wkgreycat: I don't see anything about su in the NewInStretch page.
17:56.07jellyclearly we need asynchronous shell scripts with callbacks and hook...ers.
17:56.20greycatIf you want to make GUIs with widgets and buttons that do things when you click them, I recommend Tk + whatever REAL language you prefer (Tcl or Python or ...).
17:56.33ctcxI know, thanks.
17:56.35greycatjhutchins_wk: because it's not changed in stretch.  only in buster.
17:56.49ctcxFortunately I don't need GUIs for what I need now.
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17:57.30ctcxJust a shell script menu, though called from GUI indeed (double-clicking it from file browser)
17:57.44jellygreycat: but did they pick "/usr/bin/column" from util-linux as well, that one actually has nice features instead of breaking nice features
17:57.54drithjelly, i am a normal user too, and ryzen is cheap
17:58.00jellydrith: no, you're not
17:58.14jellyyou chose to but latest hardware and run linux on it
17:58.29jellythat's always a pain
17:58.30greycatjelly: I don't know; it hasn't come up on debian-user yet, and I don't run testing at the moment.
17:58.30driththat is part of the fum
17:58.35drith*fun
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17:58.57spacedustgive me latest high end hw , ill run linux on it of course what else ? windivia ?
17:59.19drithbtw nvidia drivers run ok on testing
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17:59.40jellyspacedust: I don't mind as long as you don't say how fragile things are in here!
17:59.51annadanemy ego is fragile.
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18:00.38jellyannadane: but your ego has working sensors to detect when it's hurt.  Unlike ryzen chipsets on linux.
18:00.44drithjelly, i said that it is my only opinion because i have done this same thing many times, including laptops with non working wireless for few months
18:01.06greycatI'm sure #debian-next will care.
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18:01.07spacedustjelly: lol ryzens fail to detect when they hurt and get burned out or what ?
18:01.26spacedustall hail debian-next
18:01.51jellygo run /usr/bin/sensors_detect ... *crickets*
18:02.11ctcxFor "select", do I forcibly need the PS3 prompt?
18:02.26greycatDude, just TRY IT.
18:03.24ctcxI'm trying it now in fact.
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18:04.13greycatOne of the only good parts about shell scripting is how easy it is to just *try* something in your shell to see if it works.
18:04.33ctcxYes, sorry.
18:04.38ctcxGot it, thanks.
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18:05.20Kobazhey, having an issue with default grub2 setup and a btrfs raid-1 root
18:05.31Kobazwhen i do update-grub... it makes an invalid grub config..
18:06.04Kobazhttps://pastebin.com/NdRTkJJv
18:06.09ctcxSelect in bash looks way simpler at first sight than what I did in the Windows batch. Could it be due to the difference between kinds of programming, or perhaps I over-complicated myself with the batch as well?
18:06.38*** join/#debian acidtripper (~lechuck@unaffiliated/acidtripper)
18:06.52acidtripperhi
18:07.04acidtrippersomebody there login with fingerprint?
18:07.16acidtrippert460 here want to login just with finger
18:07.24jellyctcx: .bat and .cmd did not have a lot of syntax to begin with
18:08.25ctcxjelly: oh, maybe that's why I needed to certainly use loops there...
18:08.41*** join/#debian DrWatson (~DrWatson_@2003:d1:f70a:6f75:3e95:9ff:fe96:1793)
18:09.09greycatbash (or even legacy sh) is a hell of a lot more powerful than .BAT (command.com) was.
18:10.01jellythat's exactly why they named the new one PowerShell
18:10.55*** join/#debian ahvth (~ahvth@178-164-243-121.pool.digikabel.hu)
18:11.17acidtrippernobody there login with fingerprint?
18:12.09jellymaybe not on laptops
18:12.59*** join/#debian {41444d494e} (~kvirc@46.56.66.166)
18:14.02petn-randallacidtripper: No need for a survey, just ask your question.
18:14.07*** join/#debian diogenes_ (~diogenes_@host-static-93-119-143-98.moldtelecom.md)
18:14.36annadanealso it's been like 4 minutes
18:14.37jelly,i libpam-fprintd
18:14.38juddPackage libpam-fprintd (admin, extra) in stretch/amd64: PAM module for fingerprint authentication through fprintd. Version: 0.7.0-1; Size: 10.5k; Installed: 42k; Homepage: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/fprint/fprintd
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18:15.11jellyI'd hunt around those parts of the woods, acidtripper
18:16.01ctcxOohh, so that's the reason behind PowerShell
18:16.16dasdajs_Do anyone in here know sauvin?
18:16.28jellydasdajs_: like personally?
18:16.31*** join/#debian n0wje (~anthony@64.124.164.245)
18:16.42greycatBiblically.
18:17.03spacedustcan i run linux on my PS4 ?
18:17.12jellyspacedust: not easily
18:17.40petn-randalldasdajs_: It's best if you just ask your real question.
18:17.55jellyspacedust: if you find a unit with VERY old firmware (2 years or so) there are public exploits
18:18.16dasdajs_I'm trying to reach him, but not responding. Was asking him a question :)
18:18.39petn-randalldasdajs_: sauvin, as the IRC nickname?
18:18.41*** join/#debian onagadori (~onagadori@74-195-164-161.hwkncmtc01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net)
18:18.45jellydasdajs_: leave him a memo on /msg MemoServ perhaps, or idle in ##linux
18:18.59spacedustjelly: oh so i need to "root" it ?
18:19.09jellyspacedust: absolutely
18:19.19dasdajs_petn-randall, yes
18:19.27spacedustjelly: i once remember we booted a special os for the ps2 from an sdcard put into a camera connected to the ps2 via mini usb cable :D
18:19.42spacedustjelly: was really long time ago but was awesome :) my buddy hacked the ps2 somehow before that
18:19.50spacedustjelly: as in hw modded it, himself
18:19.54dasdajs_jelly, alright, I was idle on ##linux but they kicked me and hence the reason I need to speak with him because he was the one. I didn't get a reason which was asking him for :)
18:20.14acidtripperjudd: i installed it
18:20.15juddNo package named 'installed' was found in stretch/amd64.
18:20.16spacedustjelly: so what after you rooted it ? what can you do then to run linux ?
18:20.30acidtripperdoes kde o gnome have some gui promt for it?
18:20.34acidtripperor how it works?
18:20.40jellydasdajs_: oh, then ask in ##linux-ops
18:21.03dasdajs_jelly, thanks!
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18:22.33acidtripperhaha judd fingerd
18:22.37acidtripper:D
18:23.41greycatfingerd is no longer a serious thing
18:24.04jellyacidtripper: you will probably want to read the documentation for fprintd, maybe it's in /usr/share/doc/fprintd or nearby, and figure out how to enroll fingerprints
18:24.39acidtrippergreycat: what's serious now? have some security issues?
18:25.16jellyacidtripper: no, there used to be a network service called "finger" run by a "fingerd"
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18:25.37greycatFirst of all, judd is a bot.  Second, judd mentioned libpam-fprintd only because jelly told judd to mention libpam-fprintd.  Third, fprintd is NOT the same as fingerd.
18:26.05acidtripperhahaha
18:26.12acidtripperjudd: you suck
18:26.14jellybut fingerd has nothing to do with what you're after
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18:26.28jellyplease don't belittle the bots
18:26.44acidtripperhahah so i 'll check about it
18:26.44jellythey do the best they can
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18:27.14bjonnhhttps://archive.org/details/karaoke_hacktivista/debian_samba.ogg
18:27.17greycatjudd does not suck.
18:27.50jelly<PROTECTED>
18:28.05acidtripperjudd: he's a great boy
18:28.10jellyit sucks multiple times a day
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18:34.54ctcxjudd: hello
18:35.10ctcxMm, it's hibernating.
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18:43.56ralpheeeeafter reading a couple of articles am correct in thinking that sid would be better than the testing as it receives security patches quicker and packages which might cause issues will be fixed quicker with sid...sid is more of a rolling distro as their is never a freeze? ...am reading that testing users always experience challenges after a stable release....
18:44.40greycatSid breaks more often, but gets fixed more quickly, compared to testing.  When testing breaks, it tends to stay broken for AGES.
18:45.35jhutchins_wkralpheeee: sid is not a distro or a release, it is a repository for packagees making their way into testing.
18:45.43ralpheeeegreycat: and what is with challenges testing users experience after a stable release...
18:46.14ralpheeeei couldn't get my head around that
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18:46.29greycatsid breaks extra hard, extra fast, right after a release.
18:46.39greycatthose changes trickle down into testing, in whole or in part.
18:46.39*** join/#debian morfeokmg (~morfeokmg@201.130.57.129)
18:46.46greycatusually in part, which makes testing even MORE broken
18:46.48jellyttesting breaks HARDER
18:46.59ralpheeeejhutchins_wk: never looked at it that way....so i guess the base is not really stable either?
18:47.10jhutchins_wkralpheeee: Packages that may have been frozen from the pre-stable testing will be released to move forward, so you can get a lot of changes at once.
18:47.19jellywhich is not odd because testing is the sequel
18:47.37jhutchins_wkralpheeee: All packages are eligible for updates/changes in sid.
18:48.54ralpheeeeinteresting....thxs for all the clarifications!!!...still dont know what to choose....lol
18:49.48jhutchins_wkralpheeee: Debian really isn't a candidate for a rolling release.  It's not easy to roll back a package that breaks something, there aren't really tools for dealing with problems like that.
18:50.25jhutchins_wkralpheeee: What Debian's good for is having a solid, stable release that you can rely on to behave consistently throughtout it's release cycle.
18:50.34jellya loling release maybe
18:50.50jhutchins_wkralpheeee: At the same time, it has a shorter release cycle than say RedHat.
18:51.12ralpheeeesuppose i shouldn't be lazy and learn to deal with backports...but dam some of the stable packages are old....just saying...
18:51.37jellythere are whole teams and derivatives distros that aim to make a kind-of rolling release from debian, like "sidux"
18:51.50jellythey do a lot of work
18:52.04jhutchins_wkralpheeee: Remember that the major version of a debian package doesn't tell you anything about patches that have been backported to it.  It's not the same thing as the upstream major version.
18:52.27ralpheeeejhutchins_wk: ahhhhhhhhh
18:52.28jellybut those are derivatives and not .debian.org efforts for a reason
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18:52.53ralpheeeeyeah really do not like derivatives....!!!!
18:53.57ralpheeeekinda of a purist when it comes to linux...
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18:54.38greycatIf you're unsure what to choose, then you should probably choose the current stable release.
18:55.41ralpheeeejhutchins_wk: so if debian patch a particular package the version number remains the same albeit it might have all the latest from the newer package?
18:56.18ralpheeeegreycat: thats what am currently leaning towards....
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19:03.31jellyralpheeee: the version number remains the same, and only security and other critical bugs get fixed
19:04.03jellymost other bugs relevant for a stable release get noted and (sometimes) fixed in unstable
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19:04.45ralpheeeejelly: cool makes sense now
19:05.04jellybut at least you _know_ about them and can make arrangements, and often bug reports document workarounds
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19:05.43Habbiei'm trying to compile some software that tells me to 'apt-get install libmysqlclient-dev'
19:05.46Habbiethis does not work on my debian 9
19:05.52Habbiewhat's the best term to replace it with?
19:06.03Habbiethat would, preferably, do something useful on debian 8, 9, and '10'
19:06.09jelly,whatprovides libmysqlclient-dev'
19:06.12jellyoops.
19:06.13jelly,whatprovides libmysqlclient-dev
19:06.21juddNo packages provide 'libmysqlclient-dev'' in stretch/amd64.
19:06.23juddNo packages provide 'libmysqlclient-dev' in stretch/amd64.
19:06.56jellyHabbie: that's going to be a problem, because 8 (jessie) has libmysqlclient-dev and 9+ have switched to maria
19:07.18Habbiehello jelly (are you the same one from #powerdns?)
19:07.26Habbieso i'm not picky about mysql vs. maria
19:07.38Habbiei just want docs that allow people that want to compile powerdns from source to get something working
19:07.52Habbiei've also pondered just removing mysql from that apt-get line because not everybody needs it
19:08.09jellyHabbie: so your debian/control will probably have to something like  Build-Depends: libmysqlclient-dev | libmariadbclient-dev
19:08.21jelly(yes it's me)
19:08.23Habbieour debian/control is nicely versioned, there is no problem there
19:08.33Habbiei just want our readme to be useful in a copy/paste
19:09.01HabbieE: Couldn't find any package by regex 'libmysqlclient-dev | libmariadbclient-dev'
19:09.04Habbiethat wasn't it
19:09.23Habbieohh '(libmysqlclient-dev|libmariadbclient-dev)'
19:09.24jellyHabbie: which tool says that?
19:09.28Habbieapt-get
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19:10.01jellyyeah, to get source deps it'd be ideal to use apt-get build-dep
19:10.14jellybut then you need deb-src repo
19:10.18Habbieyes
19:10.25Habbieso also not the path of least resistance i'm looking for
19:10.33Habbieand turns out '(libmysqlclient-dev|libmariadbclient-dev)' doesn't work on raspbian 8
19:10.40Habbie(which until further notice i trust to mimick debian 8)
19:11.17jellya-ha
19:11.18Habbieso right now i'm at "update README for debian 9" or "remove mysql from the apt-get suggestion"
19:11.31jelly,v default-libmysqlclient-dev
19:11.33juddPackage: default-libmysqlclient-dev on amd64 -- jessie-backports: 1.0.1~bpo8+1; stretch: 1.0.2; buster: 1.0.4; sid: 1.0.4
19:11.40Habbielet me try that on 8
19:11.43jellycrap, does not exist in jessie
19:11.45Habbieoh
19:11.55Habbiei saw that in 9 and it looked useful, indeed, but ugh :)
19:12.30jellybut it will real useful when debian 12 switches over to libpercona-server-client-dev
19:12.59Habbiethe plan is for that one to yield 'some lib that is mostly mysql compatible for compiling and linking against'?
19:13.15jellyI don't know how to do it in a oneliner with apt-get
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19:14.02*** mode/#debian [+l 1068] by debhelper
19:14.06crisedIn Debian 9.4, How to enable apt-get from network?
19:14.14crisedI think it was using the DVD earlier
19:15.46jellyHabbie: yes
19:16.18Habbiejelly, i like that
19:18.36Habbieok, i'm going to ignore this README problem for a few days because it looks like there are no simple solutions that cover deb8
19:18.42Habbieother than dropping mysql from it
19:18.45jellyHabbie: mydev=default-libmysqlclient-dev; apt-cache policy $mydev | grep -q 'Candidate: [^(] && mydev=libmysqlclient-dev; apt-get install ... $mydev ...
19:18.47Habbiethanks jelly
19:18.47jellyhides
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19:18.51Habbiehaha
19:18.53Habbieso i do like that
19:18.57Habbiebut i'm not going to do that
19:20.15jellyI also hate when web sites want me to paste some incomprehensible crap into the command line
19:20.50bitescrised: you can check if the cdrom lines are still enables in /etc/apt/sources.list
19:20.50jhutchins_wkHabbie: You might want to look into Percona DB.  They are committed to 100% compatibility with (Oracle) MySQL.
19:21.06jellyjhutchins_wk: they are not present in Debian, tho
19:21.07crisedbites: did that, which ones should be there?
19:21.45bites!tell crised about stretch sources.list
19:22.18bitescrised: assuming you are running stretch
19:22.32Habbiejhutchins_wk, as does maria, but i was solving the specific problem of 'what do i tell people on debian 8, 9 or "10" to apt-get to build our client'
19:22.38bites... which you already said. so that.
19:23.14Habbiejelly, it is my assumption that people will skim the apt-get line from the README for stupid stuff
19:23.27jellyyou'll have to go with for 8 do this, for 9 and later, do that
19:23.35Habbieyeah
19:23.38Habbieor, again, drop mysql
19:23.42jellyheheh
19:23.45Habbiewhich i'll have to discuss ;0
19:25.27jhutchins_wkHabbie: No, Maria is not committed to compatibility, they plan on diverging.
19:25.52Habbiejhutchins_wk, even in the client lib?
19:26.21jhutchins_wkHabbie: That's probably the last place you'll see it, I'm not sure what their actual goals are, but they mean to be independent.
19:26.33Habbieok
19:26.52jhutchins_wkHabbie: Percona plans enhancements too, but will maintain the ability to take in a MySQL DB.
19:27.08Habbiethis makes me wonder if default-libmysqlclient-dev pointing to maria is the sane choice
19:27.11jhutchins_wkHabbie: You can replicate MySQL to Percona.
19:27.18Habbiethen again debian can revisit that choice with every major debian release safely
19:27.32jhutchins_wkAnyway, probably irrelevant to your current task.
19:27.38Habbiejhutchins_wk, right, that side, while i care much about that it's not what i'm worried about today
19:27.46Habbiejhutchins_wk, correct, but i do care, so i appreciate the information
19:28.10HabbieDB compatibility matters to us on all levels
19:28.26Habbiewe recently got a complaint that our internal use of unsigned ints did not go well with some postgres-compatible clustering product
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19:29.01jhutchins_wkHabbie: https://www.percona.com/blog/2017/11/02/mysql-vs-mariadb-reality-check/
19:29.28Habbieah, going to read that in a bit, thanks
19:29.34crisedbites: thanks, succesfully upgrade to 9.5 :)
19:29.37dutchfishHabbie, its int64 in postgres, int doesnt live there.
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19:30.19Habbiedutchfish, https://github.com/PowerDNS/pdns/issues/6439
19:30.22dutchfishHabbie, (for unsigned)
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19:31.20Habbiethe linked ticket has -another- case of impedance mismatch on the range of numbers
19:32.24dutchfishHabbie, not the same but related: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/20810134/why-unsigned-integer-is-not-available-in-postgresql
19:33.03Habbiedutchfish, tl;dr numbers in postgres are signed unless you constrain them?
19:33.16dutchfishHabbie, right
19:33.21Habbieunderstood
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19:33.54jellyin any case maria is not going to be crazy enough to break source level client API in a backwards incompatible way
19:34.20Habbiejelly, that is what i'd expect, yes
19:34.35jellyyou don't aggravate customers or distros needlessly
19:34.52jellywell, maybe if you're MS or Oracle.
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19:35.20Habbiehehe
19:35.27*** mode/#debian [+o eir] by ChanServ
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19:35.47hans_where is the testing channel?
19:35.52hans_buster
19:36.06dutchfishHabbie, #debian-next (OFTC)
19:36.18hans_thanks
19:36.19dutchfishoh, that was for hans
19:36.27Habbieworked out fine :)
19:37.38jellyHabbie: oh btw the official #debian (and everything #debian-*) is also on OFTC.  But this one is still bigger.
19:38.03Habbiejelly, ah, i just guessed, i suppose i picked right :)
19:38.13Habbiehaving both seems confusing to me though
19:38.49greycatAll the devs moved to OFTC and all the users stayed here.
19:38.55Habbieah
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20:28.53ralpheeeejust finished reading debian back ports...surprisingly simple....or as usual i am missing something.../o\...what would be the major issues i would face if i did a stable net install and backported my packages....
20:29.34greycatWhat packages are you talking about?
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20:30.50ralpheeeelibreoffice, mpd ncmpcpp, ie not base system packages like xorge etc... if that made sense
20:31.13ralpheeee*xorg
20:31.15greycat,v libreoffice
20:31.17juddPackage: libreoffice on amd64 -- wheezy: 1:3.5.4+dfsg2-0+deb7u6; wheezy-security: 1:3.5.4+dfsg2-0+deb7u11; jessie: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u11; jessie-security: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u11; stretch: 1:5.2.7-1+deb9u3; jessie-backports: 1:5.2.7-1+deb9u4~bpo8+1; stretch-proposed-updates: 1:5.2.7-1+deb9u4; stretch-security: 1:5.2.7-1+deb9u4; stretch-backports: 1:6.0.5-1~bpo9+1; buster: 1:6.1.0-1; sid:
20:31.18judd1:6.1.0-1
20:31.37greycat,v mpd
20:31.38juddPackage: mpd on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.16.7-2+b1; jessie: 0.19.1-1.1; jessie-backports: 0.19.12-1~bpo8+1; stretch: 0.19.21-1; buster: 0.20.21-1; sid: 0.20.21-1; jessie-multimedia: 1:0.19.9-dmo2; stretch-multimedia: 1:0.19.21-dmo4; buster-multimedia: 1:0.20.21-dmo1; sid-multimedia: 1:0.20.21-dmo1
20:31.55greycat,checkbackport mpd
20:31.56juddBackporting package mpd in sid→stretch/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using stretch, archignore, stretch-backports.
20:32.14greycatSo far so good.  Have fun.  (There's already a libreoffice backport, so you can just use that.)
20:32.31ralpheeee\o/
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20:34.34ralpheeeefriggin awesome.....how did you guys see test if those packages where compatible....here? https://backports.debian.org/Packages/
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20:38.53cnrhkiyfhello guys, i want to stream alsa output audio over ssh like in this tutorial: https://ywwg.com/wordpress/?p=1201 but i get this error when i enter the ssd command: sox FAIL formats: can't open input  `loop': snd_pcm_open error: No such file or directory. can someone help me?
20:40.03RoyKcnrhkiyf: not quite sure what to recommend, but never heard of audio streaming over ssh - there are a few client/server solutions designed for audio that should work better, though
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20:40.43cnrhkiyfyes i know that but I want to do this and I know it is working
20:40.52cnrhkiyfbut i cant set it up
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20:51.18RoyKcnrhkiyf: what sort of client?
20:51.45RoyKcnrhkiyf: if you have a tcp socket for the audio localy, an ssh tunnel should do well
20:52.04cnrhkiyfboth machines are running debian stretch
20:52.24cnrhkiyfthe streaming pc has pulseaudio and the playing pc has alsa only
20:52.47cnrhkiyfcan you explain that a little more?
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20:53.00RoyKlast I checked, alsa doesn't deal with sockets
20:53.13RoyKonly a device
20:53.19RoyKso you'll need something on top
20:55.06cnrhkiyfok this does not help me but thanks ;)
20:55.31cnrhkiyfand i think ssh + sox + alsa should be enough
20:56.25jhutchins_wkcnrhkiyf: One reason for the existence of pulseaudio is to enable playing/streaming to a remote device.  Alsa has some capability to do this, but maybe not over ssh.
20:56.43cnrhkiyfsee my link above
20:57.13cnrhkiyfthere are more tutorials like this so it should work well if you set it up correctly
20:57.19greycatWhy would we bother reading a link that you have already reported *does not work*?
20:57.36cnrhkiyfit works, just not on my setup
20:57.40greycatIf there are other tutorials that work, why are you asking *us* instead of following one of them?
20:57.50greycatIf you have got it to work before, then do it here.
20:58.03jhutchins_wkcnrhkiyf: Google returns about 1,500,000 results for "stream audio over ssh".
20:58.16cnrhkiyfbut not for stream audio alsa ssh sox
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20:59.54jhutchins_wkcnrhkiyf: Did you check all of them?
21:00.16jhutchins_wkcnrhkiyf: If you're inflexible about the recipie you may not enjoy the outcome.
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21:00.51jhutchins_wkcnrhkiyf: You may be using a screwdriver to drive nails.
21:01.03cnrhkiyfi know pulseaudio can do this
21:01.12cnrhkiyfbut i cant use pulseaudio on the second machine
21:01.32greycatSo you move on to the next google/ddg result.
21:01.34cnrhkiyfso I have to use alsa and ssh. and I dont know another way than sox to do this
21:01.43greycatStop assuming.
21:01.51cnrhkiyfim not assuming
21:02.02greycatJust search for "linux stream audio alsa".  Don't add other requirements like "it has to use sox".
21:02.25greycatDon't even assume it has to use ssh.
21:02.26cnrhkiyfso what would you use?
21:02.30greycatI would use google.
21:02.38cnrhkiyfok so you dont know
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21:02.44greycat*plonk*
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21:03.13cnrhkiyfare you like 5 or what?
21:03.36greycatUnlike you, I *actually* googled it and I found a guide that looked quite promising, but of course I did not actually test it here at work where I have no speakers or headphones or any other kind of sound-producing apparatus.
21:03.57cnrhkiyfso just shut up if you cant help
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21:04.46awal1cnrhkiyf, greycat and others are not blaming you. just trying to give you pistes
21:04.57awal1slow down
21:05.16cnrhkiyfi know but i dont like his attitude
21:05.31cnrhkiyfhe can do that to other people if he likes but not with me
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21:05.49cnrhkiyfit is not his channelk
21:05.58*** join/#debian Night-Shade (~TimF@co-lo.night-shade.org.uk)
21:06.05cnrhkiyfand he is not the one making the rules for everyone
21:06.08awal1you are talking with some of the most helpfull users here
21:06.24cnrhkiyfyeah but for me he is not helpful
21:07.10cnrhkiyfif I say i want to do it my way he has to respect that and not playing games with me
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21:07.41awal1everyone have it's own attitude/character. take it easy
21:08.01awal1!ask
21:08.01dpkgIf you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
21:09.12awal1<PROTECTED>
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21:26.14usneyhey guys I figure out how to connect to wifi without a graphical user interface
21:27.01usneywhere is the best place to make a post so others know how to do this? because it didn't work quite how all the guides told me how to do it.
21:28.24usneyM-6 how do I enter that in to copy a line in nano and paste in pure command line interface?
21:28.55usneynewbie learning how to do everything from the commandline
21:29.03usneydon't get m-6 option
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21:30.12Emilwtf, why was I kicked: 2018-08-01 15:49:04 +0300 -!- Emil was kicked from #debian by debhelper [NICK flooder]
21:30.16Emilyour bot went haywire
21:30.30EmilAnycase: I'd like to ask about the bsd nc package
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21:31.32EmilApparently with the 2012 version (at least the manual is 2012) nc automatically closes when I sent shutdown/close, but with the 2015 version (based on manpage), the nc stays active until any keys are pressed
21:31.35awal1usney, https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse wasn't helpful?
21:31.45EmilI'm wondering if this a known regression or just something in my end?
21:32.09usneyyes it was awall but I had to combine two guides to get it to work right
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21:32.18usneywell I'll look again to be sure
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21:32.31usneymaybe with debian 9.5 you have to do it a little different
21:34.18usneyawall when I am at a pure text mode how do I paste what I copied from nano into the command line after I exit nano or switch screens with screen?
21:35.06Kaltigkusney: if you want to paste a line you have on your clipboard into a terminal, usually ctrl+shift+v will do it
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21:35.50usneyyes I know that Kaltigk
21:36.02usneyI am talking about if you are not in the graphical environment
21:36.34usneywell let me try it again
21:36.43usneybrb
21:36.57n4dirgpm or similar will create mose like copy paste in cli
21:38.01n4diri usually get away with cat; grep, reditection; etc
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21:39.28KaltigkYeah, I'm not sure about copy paste if you're not running any kind of desktop environment. I def. could be wrong about this, but I feel like I remember the desktop environment handling the registers that text is copied and pasted from across the system. Not sure where it would be stored if you cut a line from within nano or a text editor and then closed it?
21:40.31usneywell you can use screen to keep it opened
21:40.59KaltigkIn other words, I'm not sure if when you are working in a terminal that there is a sessionwide clipboard or not - someone else might be able to confirm. I'd probably try what n4dir suggested in terms of saving it as a file and using redirection, etc
21:41.14bitesscreen has a copy buffer.
21:41.31usneynice
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21:43.51RoyKsome people choose to use tmux instead of screen, though, but then, choose what works for you
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21:44.54RoyKhttps://xkcd.com/1782/ <-- see mouseover ;)
21:45.30usneyhi RoyK
21:45.47awal1usney, i use gpm, for copy/paste . or ttyrec for recording
21:46.13usneyguess what I found out that orange pi pc plus works with kodi and retroarch
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21:46.33usneyit is called
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21:46.57RoyKthe fine thing about linux/unix is that there's about 20 ways to do each thing and combined the make up a large number ;)
21:47.12usneyhttp://www.retrorangepi.org/ RoyK
21:47.31usneycan't wait to get my orange pi pc plus
21:48.21RoyKusney: what sort of games can you run on those?
21:48.40RoyKhas an opi zero somewhere…
21:48.56usneyretroarch can play like n64 and playstation 1
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21:49.10usneybut I guess it depends on the specs of the board
21:49.49bitesi guess now is the time to stock up on roms before they take everything down?
21:49.51usneyalso I think retroarch can play psp games but you probably need a better board for that but I don't know
21:50.33usneyzelda outlands is a pretty cool zelda hack
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21:54.19RoyKbites, copyright nazis around?
21:54.50avernostried following the https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers#stretch but something is borked on a fresh install
21:55.23bitesnintendo has been sending their lawyers after rom sites lately.
21:55.59RoyKget it on torrent
21:56.03avernosapt says nvidia-driver : This may mean that you have requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
21:56.03aptavernos: that's too long
21:56.03avernosdistribution
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21:56.35RoyK!debian-unstable
21:56.40RoyK!sid
21:56.40dpkgsomebody said sid was the codename for <unstable>, named after the kid in Toy Story that breaks toys.  The great thing about running sid is that when it breaks, you get to keep ALL the pieces!!
21:57.01RoyKavernos: don't use sid
21:57.19RoyK!debian-next
21:57.19dpkg#debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode.  If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
21:57.55RoyKdpkg: debian-unstable is debian-next
21:57.57dpkgokay, RoyK
21:58.09avernosRoyK, Debian 9.5
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22:01.49anao<PROTECTED>
22:02.28strygHi! I am looking for a way to make a compilation farm with multiple version of debian. My host is debian 9 testing, and I would like to emulate debian 7, debian 8, and debian 9 in 64 bits (and maybe on 32 bits also)
22:02.43aladpbuilder/cowbuilder
22:02.57strygWhat is the best emulator / container / solution?
22:03.01aladalso 9 is stable, not testing
22:03.32strygyep my host is buster/sid
22:03.39strygmy mistake
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22:07.22Bushmasterhi, i am seeking some help with regard to R Commander installation in my debian
22:07.22strygalad: thanks for the idea! Do you have some experience in pbuilder/cowbuilder? It is reliable? stable? efficient?
22:09.43n4diras it is the recommended way to build packages, i bet it is stable, reliable, efficient, etc
22:10.07n4dira fancy way to do a chroot, if i recall correct (depending on what you want, a simple chroot might suffice)
22:10.18RoyKBushmaster: a lot of the R packages are already in the repos
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22:11.02BushmasterHi RoyK  the problem i am having is installing R Commander
22:11.29RoyK,v r-commander
22:11.30juddNo package named 'r-commander' was found in amd64.
22:12.05usneyback again
22:12.07RoyKBushmaster: doesn't seem like it's in the official repos - better check the website and see how to install it
22:12.34RoyKBushmaster: or just use the commandline - R is just a programming language with some gui for graphing after all
22:13.07Bushmasterdo you know how to install R Commander
22:13.23RoyKBushmaster: just google it - or perhaps try #R
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22:13.30phoggRoyK: r-cran-rcmdr
22:13.38RoyKphogg: ah
22:13.45RoyKBushmaster: ^^
22:13.47phoggpretty sure that's it
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22:14.51avernoshow can i reboot into a different installed kernel ?
22:15.09Bushmasterphogg,  do you want me to check synaptic RoyK  any suggestion?
22:15.22aladstryg: been using it for a few years, never had issues, documentation is a bit scattered though
22:15.30phoggBushmaster: did you try installing that package? Did you get an error?
22:15.45RoyKBushmaster: apt install r-cran-rcmdr
22:15.48n4dirBushmaster: first let us know why the very same answer given a few days ago isn't what you are looking for
22:15.50RoyKtry that first
22:16.03strygn4dir: ok, thanks but my goal is to compile and make a package for a package which has multiple system dependancies, and these dependancies may have different versions depending on the debian versions
22:16.14Bushmastern4dir,  i lost the log
22:16.23BushmasterRoyK,  hold on my friend
22:16.29n4dirstryg: hence the chroot (or pbuilder, cowbuilder)
22:16.40phoggBushmaster: did you type the commands in to your own computer? You should still have your own shell history.
22:16.40n4dirBushmaster: ah, ok.
22:17.08RoyKBushmaster: it won't be the latest version - R development is fast and debian tends to stick to what's considered stable
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22:18.28strygn4dir: ok but with the chroot should come a complete os system with the different dependencies I can install... Is it the way it works? If so, I should take a better look in the documentation because I didn't see it...
22:18.30n4dirstryg: the wiki is quite good when it comes to pbuilder, iirc. Might also have been the ubuntu wiki though. Or the debian dev involved in apt-stuff, i forgot the name (rafale herzog or such?)
22:18.45pav5088I can't seem to change the configuration of a nic from DHCP to static in Stretch using the old "killall dhclient;ifdown eth0;ifup eth0" method.  I've tried also doing various combinations of "service stop/start/restart networking" along with if commands to no avail.  Is there some special new magic?
22:19.00BushmasterRoyK,  its fetching which is good sign, I do not need to latest version, I just need R Commander which i am following to do some statistics work by using Bababk Shababa's book from U C Davis
22:19.02n4dirstryg: if i understand correct (tired as hell and not much in the subject): yes, thats how it works
22:19.29pav5088A reboot works to change from DHCP to static, but I do this a lot, and don't want to have to do that every time.
22:19.32Bushmasterphogg, i got rid of debian stretch and now installed debian jessie hence lost log
22:19.35RoyKBushmaster: good luck :)
22:19.58strygn4dir: ok, I'll give a chance to pbuilder/cowbuilder then. Thanks again for your help
22:20.23strygalad: thanks for your help?
22:20.35n4dirthe original idea came from someone else (honor the ones who have earned it ... ah: alad )
22:20.36pav5088BTW, I'm using the new correct nic names etc...
22:20.36strygalad: *!
22:21.11BushmasterRoyK, phogg  this is the output https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/4ZfWWfcppT/
22:21.40strygbye!
22:22.06phoggBushmaster: so it succeeded
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22:22.22phoggBushmaster: there's no step two, go back to your tutorial
22:23.32Bushmasterphogg,  let me try now whether it works or not okay
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22:25.09makrfoockerborgim looking for a debian based live distro that can be loaded to ram.
22:25.14usneyWhat else doesn't get installed automatically if you don't install with a network connection in debian?
22:25.16RoyKBushmaster: looks good
22:25.20makrfoockerborgpreferably a recent one
22:25.24n4diri already asked in #claws. someone can give me a bit of handholding when it comes to incoming mail for claws-mail (or at least confirm that something weird is going on)
22:25.30usneyI noticed I had to install man-db manually after my install
22:25.31makrfoockerborgpuppylinux has no apt :(
22:26.05usneymakrfoockerborg slax
22:26.10RoyKmakrfoockerborg: puppy linux is something you use with a 486 or similar - not needed on modern machines
22:26.25makrfoockerborgusney: thankx
22:26.40usneyhttps://www.slax.org/en/introduction.php
22:26.44RoyKmakrfoockerborg: what sort of machine is this?
22:26.44n4dirmakrfoockerborg: you sure? http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Debianization
22:27.08usneymakrfoockerborg how much ram do you have?
22:27.19makrfoockerborgusney: 4g
22:27.28usneyslax is very basic because it doesn't use a lot of ram
22:27.29RoyKjust install debian
22:27.43RoyK4 gigs is sufficient for most stuff
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22:27.50usneyvery true
22:28.07BushmasterRoyK, it worked but it says some of the packages cannot be installed but it worked without them
22:28.47RoyKBushmaster: well, don't care about what it says - just use it and leave the problems until they arise
22:29.01n4dirusney: i enjoyed salix for a while (comes with apt-like stuff too,btw), but i am with RoyK (just use debian on low end, so called low end, machines)
22:29.18makrfoockerborgRoyK: I need to make/get a ramdrive-loading-live
22:29.35RoyKmakrfoockerborg: why?
22:29.48BushmasterRoyK,  yes, you are right, in my last debian 8.5, i have same R version and R commander works 100% fine, no packaged missing
22:29.51makrfoockerborgRoyK: because I need it
22:29.53usneymakrfoockerborg is your machine able to boot from usb?
22:30.03makrfoockerborgusney: sure
22:30.09usneyif not you can use plop boot manager
22:30.26RoyKmakrfoockerborg: usually you don't need a ramdrive - linux caches well
22:30.28usneyI use plop boot manager cd to boot my usb drives on my old laptop
22:30.34BushmasterRoyK,  I want to thank you for helping me out here, really appreciated and phogg  you too, thanks a lot
22:30.45RoyKBushmaster: np :)
22:31.07makrfoockerborglast debian I had you added docache to the kernel config line and thing was done :(
22:31.15phoggBushmaster: write down the package name this time
22:31.31RoyKmakrfoockerborg: eh - linux caches without you asking it
22:31.35Bushmasterphogg,  which one
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22:33.08makrfoockerborgRoyK: i tried with the debian-cd and pulled the thumbdrive
22:33.20phoggBushmaster: the name of the R commander package that you just installed.
22:33.52n4dirmakrfoockerborg: i never bothered much with to-ram when it comes to live, but the refracta tools (or refracta itself ) seem to offer (or have offered) that option.
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22:34.43n4dirperhaps antix too
22:35.02usneymakrfoockerborg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions_that_run_from_RAM
22:35.19usneythey even tell you if they are based on based or some other system
22:35.30Bushmasterphogg,  oh yeah, i just wrote down, these are, sem, markdown, leaps, knitr, aplpack, they are installing or at least i am hoping this is what r is doing, i chose USA Indiana mirror
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22:36.42makrfoockerborgusney: i think slack is nice, unpack squashfs add a few tools and it should do
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22:37.59Bushmasterphogg,  or RoyK  what is the command to check the version of debian?
22:38.28n4dirmakrfoockerborg: refracta (tools, duh) i spoke of does the unpacking in an automated way. and comes with apt, duh.
22:38.52makrfoockerborgn4dir: need to get a platform to play with it first :)
22:38.59RoyKBushmaster: lsb_release -a
22:39.04phoggBushmaster: cat /etc/debian_version or lsb_release -v
22:39.13makrfoockerborgthx for help - laters
22:39.19phoggor I guess -r is more accurate
22:39.29RoyK-a should do
22:39.44phoggRoyK: sure, if you want all kinds of *extra* information!
22:39.49n4dirmakrfoockerborg: not trying to sound like a fanboy, but it sure is a very comfortable solution (at least compared to manual unpacking/repacking of squashfs, etc).
22:40.06RoyKphogg: s(he) didn't say anything about scripting
22:40.46phoggRoyK: Tue, true. I do so enjoy giving people *exactly* what they asked for, though.
22:41.13RoyKphogg: not all people in here ask exactly for what they want
22:41.26phoggRoyK: they never do, that's the joke
22:41.34RoyKso better give a bit more, so long it doesn't hurt
22:41.54RoyKthree more lines on the terminal won't kill you
22:42.02phoggthink of all that paper and ink
22:42.08RoyKit isn't
22:42.29RoyKprints out chess pieces
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22:44.12BushmasterRoyK,  and phogg  both commands work and my Debian version is 8.11 which is brilliant
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22:45.31n4dirBushmaster: depends when exactly jessie (debian 8) will become older-than-old-stable (and what else you do with it). For now you are safe though (as far i can tell).
22:46.08RoyKleans over to Bushmaster and whispers something about n4dir is being especially pedantic
22:47.05Bushmasterwell, i been using version 8 for over 5 years in my other machine with no issue
22:47.06n4dirat least i am not the only one. We sure have been that way a few days ago (and the recommeded way was to not use old-stable for *that* probem). But sure: overly pedantic. Sorry for that.
22:47.30n4dirhave been that far. (not that way)
22:47.44BushmasterRoyK,  and phogg only one more package to install that is sem, others got installed
22:52.47BushmasterRoyK,  and phogg  it says dependency lme4 is not available for package arm
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23:00.36usneyhow low of specs do you need to require to use dropbear over openssh?
23:01.23usneyis single core 1.4ghz 1gb of ram enough for regular openssh or should I use dropbear?
23:01.42usneythis is on a system that won't use a desktop environment
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23:04.02n4dirthat's what ps_mem.py says bout ssh:   1.2 MiB + 296.0 KiB =   1.5 MiBsshd
23:04.49n4dirin other words: i never had problems with specs and openssh, though i sure got low spec machines
23:06.15usneywhat does ps_mem.py do?
23:06.31usneytells you how much memory a program uses?
23:06.38n4dirit is a tool which gives you a bit of overview what ... you already said it
23:06.52n4dira bit more easy to read compared with (say) htop.
23:06.55usneywhat about processor usage?
23:07.07n4dirlet me look, but i think it only does memory
23:07.07usneyI like htop
23:07.13n4diryup.
23:07.38n4dirps_mem.py is nice for copy/paste, hence i used it.
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23:09.39n4diron a really crap machine i tried tiny core linux. If i recall correct bash-coreutils (?) are replaced with busybox (?). That sure makes ram usage very tiny,
23:09.54n4dirbut i don't recall anything bout using dropbear instead of openssh.
23:11.32usneyslitaz uses dropbear for ssh
23:11.38n4dirpeople these days probably call a gig of Ram really crap. I meant something like 128 megabytes of ram, sure way less than 512
23:11.50usneyopenwrt uses dropbear aswell
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23:15.27n4dirusney: no idea if it is of that much use/reliability, but: 308.0 KiB +  65.0 KiB = 373.0 KiBdropbear
23:16.23BushmasterRoyK, and phogg good news, all dependency packages are successfully installed, RoyK  your command helped installation and R Commander is 100% secured with no issues
23:16.52Bushmasternow i can go to sleep
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23:17.02Bushmasterthanks again RoyK
23:20.47usneyn4dir how do I use ifconfig command in debian?
23:20.53usneysays command not found
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23:21.32n4diryou need to install a package which contains it, but i don't know the name. per default debian now uses a different tool ("ip", iirc)
23:22.10usneythanks found it
23:22.20usneyip address
23:22.21n4dirapt-file knows which package contains which command. ah , net-tools
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23:43.48usneyn4dir how do I install ps_mem.py?
23:44.05usneyI know through pip but I forgot how you do it
23:44.36n4dirusney: you have to download it as a file and put it in ~/bin (only root can run it, i either put in in users bin or roots bin and use full path)
23:45.22n4dirlast time i checked (i dont think it is available from debian repos). Like said: i am not experienced enough to know how reliable ps_mem.py is. i mainly use it for the lulz
23:45.47n4dirthe bot has some info about RAM usage which might be interesting (short version: stop worrying about ram)
23:45.49n4dir!ram
23:45.49dpkg[ram] (Random Access Memory) The place in your computer that programs reside when running, or usually small but very fast storage device, or unused ram is _wasted_ ram!  Ask me about <free ram> or <myram>.
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23:46.26n4diri tend to disagree, but that is what is common opinion these days (i think).
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23:53.20phoggStop worrying about RAM: Just have so much it doesn't matter how much anything is using.
23:53.57usneyyup
23:54.49n4dirto each his own. I for one enjoy using the machines i got around.
23:55.07n4dirand besides web-browsing that works pretty well with all kind of machines
23:56.23usneyn4dir I found out how to install it ps_mem
23:56.31usneythrough debian
23:56.32n4direnlighten me.
23:56.39RoyKusney: ip a l
23:56.55usneyapt-get install python-pip
23:56.56RoyKusney: or ip address list if you want to spell it out
23:57.14usneythanks RoyK
23:57.20n4dirusney: thanks
23:57.29usneypip install ps_mem
23:57.44n4dirgotta run. later all.
23:57.49usneythen you don't have to type out the full directory
23:57.55n4dirtries to remember pip voodoo ...
23:57.56usneyjust type ps_mem
23:58.01RoyKusney: ifconfig is going into the history books, like all the good old things that workd so well :D
23:58.17usneywhy is ifconfig going away?
23:58.27RoyKbecause iproute2 does it better
23:58.36usneycool
23:58.47RoyKip neigh list # instead of arp
23:58.58RoyKip route list # instead of the route command
23:59.06RoyKet cetera et cetera

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