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| 00:02.27 | awal1 | abrtman, nice |
| 00:02.41 | awal1 | thanks |
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| 00:09.43 | awal1 | cve vs bug? |
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| 00:10.16 | awal1 | when a "security hole" is reported as bug and when as cve? |
| 00:11.32 | awal1 | for example why #895147 is not a cve ? |
| 00:11.32 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/895147 in firefox (open, security): «firefox: Safe Browsing updates fail due to insufficient quota on the Google API key»; severity: important; opened: 2018-04-07; last modified: 2018-04-08. |
| 00:12.57 | rjsalts | awal1: when the person who finds a security flaw, or the upstream they report it to registers for a CVE through mitre it becomes a CVE and gets categorized and triaged and reported in a certain way |
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| 00:13.37 | rant | I'd say CVE are more for things widely affecting everyone where normal securiy bugs are more narrowly scoped |
| 00:13.46 | rjsalts | awal1: but you don't have to report your security bug through mitre |
| 00:14.23 | rjsalts | https://cve.mitre.org/ |
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| 00:16.07 | awal1 | rjsalts, rant, ok, I think I have a better idea now |
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| 00:27.14 | thelucky1ike | hi, what would be most up-to-date way for running ipsec on debian? seems they stopped work on openswan for last year |
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| 00:39.33 | thelucky1ike | aha, strongswan it is, ty |
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| 01:33.26 | Faust | Hey |
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| 01:34.11 | Faust | I am curious about what language Debian is written. |
| 01:34.27 | Faust | Aside from the kernel |
| 01:35.08 | tonymke | Debian isn't "written" so much as "collected". It's a collection of packages - applications - put together and configured a certain way. |
| 01:35.14 | tonymke | Hopefully that makes sense. |
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| 01:41.05 | Faust | Since the packages are independent, that probably means there are many languages at play, right? |
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| 01:41.38 | Faust | Do u know if there's a dominant one? |
| 01:41.43 | __m4ch1n3__ | libraries are c/cpp |
| 01:42.04 | __m4ch1n3__ | guess depends on how lowlevel something is |
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| 01:42.52 | tonymke | Predominantly C/C++, next closest being python. |
| 01:43.36 | somiaj | a lot of perl around, though most of that is the older stuff, python seems to be more popular these days |
| 01:43.46 | somiaj | you can also get ruby, shell scripts, really depends on the software being used |
| 01:44.37 | Ouroboro | the stuff that ties the packages together is mostly shell script |
| 01:46.16 | Faust | Interesting. |
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| 01:46.39 | Faust | I never dealt with Perl. No idea what to think about it. |
| 01:47.14 | tonymke | It will... get you very good with regular expressions :) |
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| 01:47.34 | somiaj | perl has some nice things about it, it was one of the original popular interprited langauges, with a c like syntax. |
| 01:48.33 | Faust | tonymke, u mean RE from automata theory? |
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| 01:49.50 | Faust | somiaj, so it's like the java from the interpreted languages? |
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| 01:50.17 | Ouroboro | it is almost the complete opposite of java :P |
| 01:50.22 | tonymke | Ahh... regular expressions are a syntax for searching and editing text. They are very dense and people can find them intimidating at first. |
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| 01:53.57 | __m4ch1n3__ | and syntax highlight |
| 01:54.55 | somiaj | Faust: java is partly compiled, and requires a java virtual machine, but kinda, the common ones are perl, python and ruby |
| 01:55.04 | somiaj | php is also one |
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| 01:55.37 | Ouroboro | but, java is very clean by design, perl is... not |
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| 01:56.21 | Ouroboro | on the other hand, java is 100x more verbose |
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| 01:57.00 | Faust | Ouroboro, I felt ur scars with it in that comment. |
| 01:57.20 | Faust | tonymke, didn't know about this type of regular expression |
| 01:57.36 | Ouroboro | Faust: they are the same RE |
| 01:57.37 | Faust | seems cool, I will take a look at it. Thanks =D |
| 01:57.43 | Ouroboro | just an application |
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| 01:58.42 | Faust | somiaj, is ruby also interpreted? O_o |
| 01:58.57 | Faust | I thought 'twas compiled. |
| 01:59.29 | somiaj | python is partly compiled too, mostly this is just to make the interpetation faster |
| 01:59.53 | somiaj | but the compiled isn't like C/C++, the result is mostly pure text, plus some additional data to classify the objects |
| 02:00.00 | Ouroboro | but, yes, all of these languages are pretty much the same, if you want something slightly different, try tex or haskell or something |
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| 02:00.21 | somiaj | I woudln't say tex as a programing language, it is mostly a typesetter |
| 02:01.08 | Ouroboro | well, people may use it that way, but it is a complete language |
| 02:02.09 | Faust | OOOOHhh so they're the same RE |
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| 02:02.29 | Faust | Now I understand the syntax highlight u said. |
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| 02:04.08 | Faust | I didn't know I could use them for search too. |
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| 02:04.48 | __m4ch1n3__ | python makes lot fun, moving more and more from bash to python |
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| 02:05.35 | __m4ch1n3__ | and there are so many awesome modules for python like prompt-toolkit |
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| 02:06.55 | pennTeller | Hi guys anyone know if it's possible to record audio from a webcam microphone using the terminal? |
| 02:07.32 | Faust | pennTeller, I think u can do that with ffmpeg. |
| 02:08.01 | pennTeller | Faust I appreciate the feedback |
| 02:08.31 | Faust | _m4ch1n3_, but Python is slow '---- |
| 02:08.46 | Red_M | python does not have to be slow |
| 02:09.01 | Red_M | you can run C in python |
| 02:09.13 | Red_M | with compiled extensions |
| 02:09.17 | annadane | i mean i don't think it would be used by so many thousands of people if it were slow |
| 02:09.31 | Red_M | if you use python the wrong way it is slow |
| 02:09.42 | Red_M | if you don't use multiprocessing properly it is slow |
| 02:09.56 | Red_M | it is very easy to make anything "slow" |
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| 02:14.37 | Faust | pennTeller, =D |
| 02:15.03 | Faust | Red_M, never heard about these compiled extensions. I will take a look. |
| 02:15.55 | Faust | And running C *in* Python? That's confusing... |
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| 02:17.00 | __m4ch1n3__ | lot modules are written in c/cpp, like pyqt5, c libraries with python byndings |
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| 02:18.46 | Faust | wait wait. It may be possible to make anything slow, but the more barebones ones like C are naturally faster, aren't they? |
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| 02:20.05 | Ouroboro | not necessarily, e.g. java can be faster than c in some cases because of jitc |
| 02:20.51 | __m4ch1n3__ | pythons syntax is very special and simpler. it has lot syntax sugar |
| 02:22.15 | __m4ch1n3__ | and it is EAFP by design |
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| 02:22.27 | annadane | easy as first ... |
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| 02:23.13 | Ouroboro | easy as fish porridge |
| 02:23.32 | whjms | Easier to Ask Forgiveness than Permission |
| 02:23.49 | annadane | ok, your acronyms make no sense, i officially quit the internet |
| 02:24.08 | whjms | TTFN! |
| 02:24.19 | __m4ch1n3__ | https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/pythonengineering/2016/06/29/idiomatic-python-eafp-versus-lbyl/ |
| 02:24.58 | annadane | SOATFATF |
| 02:25.10 | annadane | god damn it |
| 02:25.13 | annadane | SLATFATF * |
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| 02:25.44 | somiaj | notes that discussion of programing langauges isn't really debian support... |
| 02:26.26 | Faust | Ouroboro, even java? wow |
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| 02:26.48 | Faust | somiaj, I got caught into it :D |
| 02:26.53 | Faust | but u're right |
| 02:27.00 | Ouroboro | annadane: super lazy assholes truly fail at taming foals? |
| 02:27.18 | Ouroboro | ok, i am done here |
| 02:27.18 | annadane | #debian-annadanes-going-away-party sorry i mean #debian-offtopic |
| 02:27.31 | annadane | Ouroboro, so long and thanks for all the fish |
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| 02:29.09 | Faust | whjms, Thanks. I initially found European Association of Fish Pathologists as the first definition, but imagined it wasn't that. |
| 02:29.17 | Faust | Anyways. Thanks guys |
| 02:29.24 | Faust | Learned a lot. |
| 02:29.33 | whjms | Python code can be fishy sometimes |
| 02:29.41 | Faust | I look up more about these topics |
| 02:29.45 | Faust | HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH |
| 02:29.51 | Faust | whmjs, LOL |
| 02:30.09 | Faust | See ya |
| 02:30.16 | whjms | o/ |
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| 02:30.18 | Faust | Take care o/ |
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| 02:31.38 | JordiGH | what's current stable codename? |
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| 02:31.42 | annadane | stretch |
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| 02:33.20 | whjms | Is it a bad idea to use 'stable' instead of 'stretch' in my sources.list? I understand buster is over a year away, so I'm just curious |
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| 02:34.02 | JordiGH | stretch, huh |
| 02:34.07 | JordiGH | So I already was at current stable. |
| 02:34.08 | JordiGH | Silly me. |
| 02:34.22 | JordiGH | I thought it was jessie or something |
| 02:34.22 | Ouroboro | whjms: yes, because you will not remember that for a year |
| 02:34.23 | annadane | you should use stretch, so that when next stable releases you don't run into nasty surprises |
| 02:34.47 | whjms | Aha gotcha |
| 02:34.48 | annadane | jessie is oldstable |
| 02:34.57 | awal1 | whjms, 'stable' is the branch name, stretch is the codename of that branch, |
| 02:35.05 | __m4ch1n3__ | or push it to the limit and go testing |
| 02:35.30 | whjms | I'm used to using unstable so stable stuff is new to me haha |
| 02:35.58 | awal1 | no difference until the last minute of next stable version being available |
| 02:36.09 | awal1 | :P |
| 02:36.23 | Ouroboro | it is pretty much the same, except with two fewer letters |
| 02:37.16 | annadane | FYI: new intel-microcode was released, so stable users are advised to update |
| 02:37.33 | awal1 | whjms, i guess you know what means 'unstable' vs 'sid' right? |
| 02:37.57 | Ouroboro | annadane: argh, again? |
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| 02:38.06 | annadane | yes except you can use either name because it will always be unstable and you'll already be running into nasty surprises |
| 02:38.07 | awal1 | so same for stable vs past/current/next codename |
| 02:38.21 | whjms | awal1: right, thanks |
| 02:38.35 | whjms | annadane: haha true |
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| 02:39.35 | awal1 | if you keep 'stable' in your sources file, when next stable is released when you upgrade your system you'll get the new stable |
| 02:40.03 | awal1 | use codename, now stretch, if you want to avoid that, if that is your "interest" |
| 02:40.16 | annadane | you should avoid that because you should read the release notes first |
| 02:40.35 | somiaj | The basic idea being, you should upgrade at a time of your choosing over when the release happens. |
| 02:40.38 | Ouroboro | how do vps providers handle microcode updates? do they just shut down all the vpses? |
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| 02:42.01 | somiaj | Ouroboro: might depend on the vps provider, but if running server hardware, often times firmware updates are more the approach than microcode. But yes, they would have to shutdown for matiance (usually scheduled) and bring thigns back up |
| 02:42.36 | Ouroboro | this is going to be fun |
| 02:43.11 | whjms | I should probably cancel my VPS subscription for my unused server⦠|
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| 02:45.16 | Ouroboro | i wonder whether they would send an acpi shutdown or suspend it transparently |
| 02:45.40 | Ouroboro | both methods have issues |
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| 02:54.08 | somiaj | Ouroboro: you may want to ask your vps. I'm sure they each have their own policy of how they handel firmware updates and kernel reboots of the hyperserver. |
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| 03:02.40 | Ouroboro | i am just thinking that it was possibly a bad idea to use features that prevent an unattended boot |
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| 03:27.47 | Toadisattva | maybe this is a better place to ask than ##linux |
| 03:27.50 | Toadisattva | I expect this is just a permissions issue: using debian 8 jessie with lxde desktop, in my desktop preferences the "show trash can on desktop" is selected and greyed out, but there is no trash can icon on the desktop, neither is it present in pcmanfm wehther I click it in the layout menu or not |
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| 03:41.31 | __m4ch1n3__ | what happens when you type "trash:///" as path in thunar without "" |
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| 04:02.02 | Toadisattva | using pcmanfm instead of thunar |
| 04:02.17 | Toadisattva | when I type trash:/// in the bar it gives me an operation not permitted error |
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| 04:04.41 | well_laid_lawn | Toadisattva: see if this helps https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/8790/where-is-the-trash-directory-for-pcmanfm-and-xfe |
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| 04:12.32 | Toadisattva | thank you! |
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| 05:07.43 | Toadisattva | gvfs did it! |
| 05:07.46 | Toadisattva | thanks! |
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| 06:50.51 | drzacek | Hello there |
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| 06:52.06 | iveqy | Hi, I've compiled and installed dwm manually (a window manager) but it doesn't show up in the list of available window manager even when I add an file to /usr/share/xsessions |
| 06:52.15 | drzacek | two days ago I spotted some wild panel on my desktop. I'm on debian 9 with plasma. The panel floats slightly above the taskbar, doesn't seem like to belong anywhere, not sure what it is or does but it annoys me very much |
| 06:52.29 | iveqy | what do I've do to to be able to use dwm as my desktop environment? |
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| 06:52.58 | drzacek | uploading picture now |
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| 06:54.21 | drzacek | https://pasteboard.co/HpFjvfz.png - what is this and how do I get rid of it/fix it (I'm sure this isn't the intended place for it) |
| 06:54.53 | drzacek | iveqy, what dm? |
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| 06:55.33 | Haohmaru | drzacek can't you click it.. any menus from it? |
| 06:55.38 | iveqy | drzacek: I don't know. The default in stretch? Running update-alternatives --config x-session-manager says: gnome-session |
| 06:55.58 | drzacek | Haohmaru, yeah I can |
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| 06:56.25 | drzacek | I can go to "preferences" -> window pops up with title "uim-pref-qt4" |
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| 06:56.53 | Haohmaru | good then, you have a name |
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| 06:57.26 | iveqy | drzacek: how do I find out which dm I've? |
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| 06:58.05 | drzacek | iveqy, cat /etc/X11/default-display-manager |
| 06:58.18 | iveqy | drzacek: usr/sbin/gdm3 |
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| 06:58.45 | iveqy | so obviously I've gdm3, and gdm3 should listen to /usr/share/xsessions/* right? |
| 06:58.48 | drzacek | iveqy, I'm not sure but I'm guessing it will be the same for all of them dms |
| 06:58.49 | drzacek | https://blkct.wordpress.com/2017/06/16/how-to-start-dwm-from-lightdm/ |
| 06:59.03 | drzacek | iveqy, I would assume it should |
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| 08:47.40 | apus | hi, i'm trying to install a minimal server version of debian 9.4. I've got the netinst cd iso. For whatever reason i don't ever get to a package selection screen, where i can deselect stuff like X Desktop, libreoffice, etc. What am i doing wrong? |
| 08:48.07 | petn-randall | apus: It's usually fairly at the end. |
| 08:49.23 | Guest37559 | "Current status: 5 (+5) upgradable, 28002 (+2) new." I know about `apt list --upgradeable` to list out the 5 upgradeable packages; but, how could I get a list of those 2 new packages? |
| 08:49.43 | colo-work | apus, make sure you use "expert" installation mode |
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| 08:50.22 | rocketmagnet | hi everyone, i'm using stable, where is the php5-mysql package gone ? |
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| 08:50.41 | babilen | Guest28683: There is no search for that |
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| 08:50.52 | rocketmagnet | is a bot here that can search for packages ? |
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| 08:51.11 | babilen | rocketmagnet: There is, but how would that help you? |
| 08:51.23 | babilen | dpkg: bat |
| 08:51.23 | dpkg | In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use http://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>. |
| 08:51.45 | babilen | rocketmagnet: This ^ might help in debugging whatever issue you're having |
| 08:52.06 | petn-randall | rocketmagnet: php5 is not in stable (stretch), it only ships php7. |
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| 08:52.42 | babilen | There is php-mysql though |
| 08:52.49 | petn-randall | rocketmagnet: Since security support in upstream is running out in 5 months, it's time to upgrade :) |
| 08:52.50 | rocketmagnet | so which package does i have to install to get php7 support for my apache ? i tried php7.0-cgi but that doesn't change a thing |
| 08:52.52 | babilen | So it shouldn't be problematic to get hold of that |
| 08:53.01 | rocketmagnet | petn-randall: ^ |
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| 08:53.15 | babilen | rocketmagnet: Which problem are you actually trying to solve/debug ? |
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| 08:53.48 | rocketmagnet | my apache doesn't support any php code |
| 08:54.07 | petn-randall | rocketmagnet: Depends on how you want to run the PHP code ... |
| 08:54.17 | DrBunsen | rocketmagnet: did you install the php packages? |
| 08:54.21 | babilen | Are you, mayhaps, looking for libapache2-mod-php ? |
| 08:54.29 | rocketmagnet | i've made an index.php with <?php echo("WELCOME"); ?> and i get output in the html file |
| 08:54.45 | rocketmagnet | babilen: sound reasonable |
| 08:54.49 | rocketmagnet | thank you |
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| 08:55.05 | petn-randall | rocketmagnet: CGI, fastcgi, FPM, ... |
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| 08:55.35 | petn-randall | Oh right, mod_php also still exists. |
| 08:55.40 | petn-randall | shudders. |
| 08:55.48 | rocketmagnet | babilen: and how do i install the mysql packages so php has mysql support ? |
| 08:55.52 | babilen | I typically use nginx with fastcgi |
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| 08:56.11 | babilen | fastcgi isn't a bad approach |
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| 08:56.28 | rocketmagnet | i want to stick to what i know |
| 08:56.31 | blaztek | babilen: good combo! |
| 08:56.43 | babilen | rocketmagnet: There's php-mysql - but it makes sense to think about the best way to run PHP in your setup and to pick the best toolstack for your situation |
| 08:56.46 | rocketmagnet | i have to learn alot (like every other coder) |
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| 08:57.03 | rocketmagnet | ok |
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| 08:57.22 | rocketmagnet | is it just a setup thing or does it changes the way i've the php code mysql ? |
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| 08:57.44 | babilen | As I said: I'm quite fond of nginx and fastcgi, but you can naturally keep using Apache. Also look into the different ones mentioned by petn-randall |
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| 08:58.16 | babilen | Sorry, I don't quite follow. What do you mean by "is it just a setup thing or does it changes the way i've the php code mysql" ? |
| 08:58.21 | rocketmagnet | i'll do when i've time, i've a deathline to finish :X |
| 08:59.36 | apus | colo-work: can you please tell me where i can activate it? |
| 09:00.19 | rocketmagnet | babilen: but thanks a lot for the effort helping me ! |
| 09:00.20 | colo-work | apus, when you boot into the installer, there's supposed to be a menu there (where you can choose between normal and expert mode, and the graphical variants of the two) |
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| 09:01.19 | rocketmagnet | babilen: btw. does this channel has a bot that can help with a few things ? |
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| 09:04.44 | babilen | rocketmagnet: It does have multiple bots: https://wiki.debian.org/IRC/DpkgBot + http://ircbots.debian.net/judd/ |
| 09:05.24 | DrBunsen | Does anyone have any experience with nextcloud here? I asked my question in the nextcloud irc, but to no avail. I setup nextcloud and the loading after login takes way too long even in the same network, and the interface looks all funky https://i.imgur.com/ME8Za2H.png . I found some errors in the log https://paste.debian.net/hidden/75c02a54/ for which I tried, as a test, to chmod 777 the whole nextcloud folder, since these files exist. I |
| 09:05.24 | DrBunsen | <PROTECTED> |
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| 09:09.32 | apus | colo-work: for me i have bios grub boot options: Graphical Debian Installer, Debian Installer, Debian Installer with speech ... At no point does any of these ask me if i want to install in expert mode. no matter how i arrive at the partitioning, after i select ok, write changes to disk, it starts copying files. |
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| 09:10.11 | Kelsar | apus: selection comes after it copies some base things afaik |
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| 09:11.17 | akd | I was able to use accent with my "English (US Alternative Layout", I was able to write "é" when pressing (ALT-GR + ") + e , now I am writing "'e". I want to restore my ALT-GR . I dont remember where is the kebyoard configuration. I am on Linux Debian Stretch With a Cinnamon desktop. Any Help ? |
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| 09:15.31 | petn-randall | DrBunsen: apparmor or selinux running? Which OS release is this? |
| 09:16.49 | DrBunsen | petn-randall: just debian stable, whatever the default of the two is, selinux right? |
| 09:17.09 | petn-randall | DrBunsen: None of them is installed by default. |
| 09:17.20 | DrBunsen | neither ;) |
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| 09:18.22 | petn-randall | DrBunsen: Which user does the nextcloud files and directory belong to? |
| 09:18.49 | DrBunsen | www-data |
| 09:19.39 | petn-randall | DrBunsen: Can you show me the output of 'ls -l /var/www/html/nextcloud/lib/composer/composer/../../../lib/private/Template/ResourceNotFoundException.php'? |
| 09:20.07 | apus | Kelsar: colo-work: found it, thanks! |
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| 09:20.59 | DrBunsen | ooo, that is another user! guess I should redo my chown ;) |
| 09:20.59 | DrBunsen | -rwxrwxrwx 1 bunsen bunsen 1273 Jun 12 14:30 /var/www/html/nextcloud/lib/composer/composer/../../../lib/private/Template/ResourceNotFoundException.php |
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| 09:21.08 | petn-randall | :) |
| 09:21.33 | petn-randall | DrBunsen: and chmod 777 is *never* a good idea. |
| 09:22.00 | DrBunsen | I know, I just wanted to see if it would change anything |
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| 09:22.55 | DrBunsen | It is still slow and it still looks like the image I supplied :'( |
| 09:23.40 | petn-randall | DrBunsen: What command did you run to fix permissions? |
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| 09:24.21 | DrBunsen | chown -R www-data:www-data nextcloud/ |
| 09:24.21 | DrBunsen | it is now owned by www-data |
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| 09:34.52 | rephlexie | imo looks like a php/table issue, template being garbled etc etc |
| 09:35.24 | Haohmaru | aww crap, quadro NVS (NV17GL) seems to be uber uber old, and there's no driver for it? |
| 09:35.37 | Haohmaru | i mean no "nvidia" driver |
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| 09:36.25 | petn-randall | Haohmaru: It should work with the FOSS drivers. |
| 09:36.32 | Haohmaru | nouveau? |
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| 09:36.59 | Haohmaru | yeah, it worked, but it has no idea about the monitor's resoltions |
| 09:37.00 | petn-randall | Haohmaru: yes |
| 09:37.45 | Haohmaru | i'll have to pretend i'm a cvt/xrandr h4x0r again |
| 09:37.54 | petn-randall | Haohmaru: How is it connected? Not all standards require a backchannel for reporting supported resolutions (VGA for example). |
| 09:38.07 | Haohmaru | it's VGA of course |
| 09:38.12 | Haohmaru | the monitor is also "old" |
| 09:38.12 | petn-randall | :) |
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| 10:59.02 | michael2 | if the kernel contains binary blobs - how is it that it is in main? shouldn't the kernel be in non-free or contrib? |
| 10:59.55 | jelly | michael2: which binary blobs and which kernel? |
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| 11:00.15 | michael2 | linux kernel |
| 11:00.28 | jelly | do you have a specific example? |
| 11:00.38 | michael2 | of the binary blobs? |
| 11:00.58 | jelly | yes, and the kernel package that carries them |
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| 11:02.56 | Kelsar | firmware blobs |
| 11:03.24 | michael2 | jelly: I dont know of any specific examples Im not familiar with the kernel source code, but I read that it is necessary for the kernel to contain various blobs |
| 11:03.44 | jelly | michael2: where did you read that |
| 11:04.26 | FinalX | ,v nginx |
| 11:04.27 | judd | Package: nginx on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.2.1-2.2+wheezy4; wheezy-security: 1.2.1-2.2+wheezy4+deb7u1; wheezy-backports: 1.6.2-5+deb8u2~bpo70+1; jessie: 1.6.2-5+deb8u5; jessie-security: 1.6.2-5+deb8u5; sid: 1.10.1-1; jessie-backports: 1.10.3-1+deb9u1~bpo8+2; stretch: 1.10.3-1+deb9u1; stretch-security: 1.10.3-1+deb9u1; stretch-backports: 1.13.3-1~bpo9+1; buster: 1.13.12-1; sid: |
| 11:04.27 | michael2 | jelly: give me a sec to find where I saw it... |
| 11:04.28 | judd | 1.13.12-1 |
| 11:04.32 | Kelsar | michael2: kernel.org has removed any blobs from the kernel tree with 4.17. since they are all in linux-firmware anyways. dunno how debian handles it |
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| 11:05.29 | jelly | michael2: if it's a reference older than 10 years, debian has thoroughly deblobbed their kernel source and resulting binaries a long time ago. IF you find something specific you can report a bug. |
| 11:05.55 | michael2 | jelly: ah, yes it was a reference from 2008 |
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| 11:06.35 | jelly | other distros however may have a different situation |
| 11:08.38 | michael2 | Kelsar: 4.17 thats a quite recent version right? so current mainline/upstream kernels are entirely deblobbed? |
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| 11:08.56 | Kelsar | michael2: could be 4.16 not sure |
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| 11:09.32 | Kelsar | atleast all the firmware stuff was thrown out |
| 11:09.44 | michael2 | any idea how SMM (system management mode) is implemented these days in that case? |
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| 11:11.57 | petn-randall | michael2: What do you mean with that? It's in the firmware, if that's your question. |
| 11:12.13 | petn-randall | michael2: Well, CPU microcode, which is firmware IMO. |
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| 11:14.59 | michael2 | petn-randall: i mean this: |
| 11:15.02 | michael2 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Management_Mode |
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| 11:17.59 | petn-randall | michael2: I know what it is, your question just doesn't make much sense. |
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| 11:19.43 | michael2 | I could be wrong but I thought SSM was moved from firmware into the kernel |
| 11:19.55 | michael2 | s/SSM/SMM |
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| 11:20.58 | michael2 | from the sounds, it probably was, but has since been removed..? |
| 11:21.24 | petn-randall | michael2: Where did you read that? |
| 11:21.24 | michael2 | the source of the info was pretty old |
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| 11:22.51 | michael2 | petn-randall: just a sec, finding now... |
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| 11:23.48 | jelly | OS never deals with SMM, _if_ it's very lucky it will be able to notice lost time during SMM. |
| 11:23.50 | jelly | sounds like a lot of bull |
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| 11:25.16 | michael2 | petn-randall: jelly: https://youtu.be/X72LgcMpM9k?t=22m31s |
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| 11:29.35 | petn-randall | michael2: I've listened several minutes in, and I haven't heard anything about moving SMM into the kernel. |
| 11:31.15 | michael2 | petn-randall: my mistake - it sounds like it was the ACPI vm that was moved into the kernel - but it was in 2001...? |
| 11:31.25 | jelly | that is also incorrect |
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| 11:32.08 | petn-randall | michael2: Also, this talk is about coreboot, which is a FOSS implementation of BIOS/UEFI. So they might be doing some things differently than usual BIOS/UEFI does. |
| 11:33.05 | jelly | and a system firmware will do VERY different things than an OS kernel will |
| 11:34.03 | michael2 | but isnt the BIOS an unusual kind of firmware in that it runs on CPU? |
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| 11:36.34 | jelly | where would you have firmware run on, if not a cpu |
| 11:36.59 | michael2 | on the devices own dedicated processor |
| 11:37.00 | Kelsar | a cpu, but not the cpu. like hdds got pretty beafy arm socs sometimes |
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| 11:38.49 | jelly | and the main CPU and its main board would prepare its state to boot an OS using what, fairy dust? |
| 11:39.36 | michael2 | the BIOS |
| 11:39.48 | colo-work | jelly, fairy dust sounds acceptable 8) |
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| 11:40.12 | colo-work | (esp. if it's distributed under a copyleft license) |
| 11:43.06 | michael2 | the CPU is exactly that the _central_ processor. if you're talking about a processor which is part of a peripheral satellite component like a wifi module, keyboard etc . then i would call that just a "processor" |
| 11:43.17 | jelly | michael2: having more dedicated processors increases price of product |
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| 11:53.31 | szonek | hi, there is a chance that Fastly CDN debian mirror has some modified/infected with malware file, who can i speak to about it? |
| 11:54.03 | ikanobori | is it provided by fastly itself or someone uses fastly to provide a mirror? |
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| 11:54.45 | szonek | by fastly |
| 11:54.51 | petn-randall | szonek: What makes you come to that conclusion? |
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| 11:55.17 | szonek | petn-randall: it may be false positive: https://www.virustotal.com/#/file/6111efe0a54cab8344981c121f0125800a3c4b88a7f1b5bb3b45fbe91648a73a/detection |
| 11:55.57 | szonek | but win32-loader.exe has different hash than the one on ftp.debian.org |
| 11:56.37 | szonek | http://cdn-fastly.deb.debian.org/debian/tools/win32-loader/oldoldstable/win32-loader.exe |
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| 11:58.16 | petn-randall | szonek: Do you have a link to the one on ftp.debian.org? |
| 11:58.45 | szonek | petn-randall: http://ftp.debian.org/debian/tools/win32-loader/oldoldstable/win32-loader.exe |
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| 11:59.59 | petn-randall | szonek: They both return the same checksum for me. |
| 12:00.07 | petn-randall | szonek: 37a1016d0d97e5bc488c966f878b2b86 win32-loader.exe |
| 12:00.14 | petn-randall | md5sum, that is. |
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| 12:01.05 | szonek | petn-randall: i think you might've been redirected to fastly |
| 12:01.49 | szonek | petn-randall: https://www.virustotal.com/#/url/fe9a1294c967ccc78335d77a2110e2064a67d20f51010847fbf6f7a2d95aa8e6/detection |
| 12:01.55 | szonek | petn-randall: https://www.virustotal.com/#/url/21f0df2671c8b887ed3e424455770e8c95ec6df378ac2457064abcdbbe5377f9/detection |
| 12:02.10 | szonek | hashes are different |
| 12:02.51 | szonek | petn-randall: sorry, my fault |
| 12:03.01 | petn-randall | szonek: The second URL is pointing to a different file. |
| 12:03.03 | szonek | urls are differnet |
| 12:03.06 | szonek | yeah |
| 12:03.11 | petn-randall | On both files I get 6111efe0a54cab8344981c121f0125800a3c4b88a7f1b5bb3b45fbe91648a73a as sha256sum. |
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| 12:04.02 | petn-randall | szonek: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Loader |
| 12:04.29 | oerheks | oldoldstable |
| 12:04.42 | szonek | yeah, sorry about that |
| 12:05.04 | petn-randall | szonek: It's ok. A pity there aren't any gpg signature on that file, though. |
| 12:05.21 | oerheks | stay sharp, beter a false positive than .. |
| 12:05.36 | petn-randall | szonek: I recommend using the netinstaller and a USB stick, anyway. |
| 12:06.23 | szonek | petn-randall: i'm building my own iso with simple-cdd and have hard time downloading this exe file due to our firewall blocking it |
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| 12:12.07 | petn-randall | szonek: Not much we can do about it, though. |
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| 12:12.19 | petn-randall | szonek: You could try HTTPS, that should solve it. |
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| 12:24.26 | OS-38463 | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:25.52 | oerheks | time to change password |
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| 12:32.46 | jolt | :D |
| 12:33.26 | colo-work | I recommend 'hunter2' |
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| 12:34.43 | jim | OS-38463, space.... can be the final frontier but not the initial one! |
| 12:35.12 | dgp | <insert "its a trap" gif here> |
| 12:35.27 | secrgb | colo-work: 'password123' was a popular choice once .. |
| 12:36.08 | jim | so was password 321, to thwart the guessers |
| 12:37.18 | jim | or pihunger31416 |
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| 12:38.47 | secrgb | My favorite password is 'incorrect' |
| 12:38.51 | szonek | petn-randall: yeap, https works! :) |
| 12:38.52 | szonek | thanks |
| 12:39.29 | secrgb | when i get it wrong, irc reminds me: 'Your password is incorrect' |
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| 12:40.52 | Ool | :) |
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| 13:08.35 | jim | is memtest86 still an installable thing? |
| 13:09.20 | petn-randall | jim: You can easily check that in your package manager. |
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| 13:09.38 | jim | or... |
| 13:09.47 | jim | , v memtest86 |
| 13:09.48 | judd | Package: memtest86 on amd64 -- wheezy: 4.0s-1; jessie: 4.3.7-2; buster: 4.3.7-3; sid: 4.3.7-3; stretch: 4.3.7-3 |
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| 13:26.52 | jelly | dpkg, tell jim about msg the bot |
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| 13:57.24 | yac | Is there a way to automatically install -dev packages for installed packages? |
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| 14:03.11 | jelly | yac: I'd assume there wasn't. |
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| 14:07.29 | k_ | hello, i am trying to install mysql-server in parrot security os but it is showing this message "Package mysql-server is not available, but is referred to by another package. This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source E: Package 'mysql-server' has no installation candidate" |
| 14:07.43 | greycat | !parrot |
| 14:07.43 | dpkg | Parrot OS (https://www.parrotsec.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution. It is based on Debian testing, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #parrot on irc.frozenbox.org or try the mailing lists at http://lists.parrotsec.org/listinfo. Also ask me about <based on debian>. |
| 14:08.08 | k_ | ok |
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| 14:09.10 | jelly | yac: but there might be a (better) way, depending on what you're actually trying to achieve |
| 14:09.35 | dougie | In the install, is "Debian desktop environment" that's checked by default an actual desktop environment? |
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| 14:09.56 | greycat | It will install GNOME. |
| 14:10.00 | jelly | dougie: if you can call Gnome an actual DE, yes |
| 14:10.25 | dougie | Gotcha, cool. |
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| 14:16.28 | bash94 | w |
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| 14:25.19 | SimonB | Having problems with an NVIDIA card on my Debian system (on Stretch and now Buster). The card is a Quadro NVS 420m and I have the legacy 340 drivers installed (from repos not NVIDIA directly). I have 3 monitors on said card, But the card presents itself as two GPU's, and I'm having to use twinview to get all three monitors working. The problem is that anything that tries to use hardware accelerated |
| 14:25.26 | SimonB | graphics grinds the whole PC to a halt, and I often have to reset when this does happen. |
| 14:26.47 | SimonB | xorg.conf : https://sb256.uk/index.php?0afe34c5d3c20bcd#sLmc5tF5lhjNV/mJKE7QCYj/of3EHRk6ODCYBMcI7HM= |
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| 14:33.38 | SimonB | NVS 420 not NVS 420m |
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| 14:36.24 | Brigo | hi, i have a problem with a mini laptop that dosen't detect my ap, but it detects others. I am wondering if it is any king of compatibility issue or what. |
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| 14:38.27 | Brigo | my phone can detect 11 and the laptop 7. |
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| 14:39.17 | Brigo | well, my pc can detect 6 ... |
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| 14:42.13 | petn-randall | Brigo: Do you have the firmware package for that wifi installed? It might be that the burned-in firmware kind of works, but is buggy. |
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| 14:43.06 | Brigo | petn-randall, i think so, i will recheck. |
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| 14:45.45 | Brigo | petn-randall, that could be the issue. i would say i checked that. Maybe not because it worked at first. |
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| 14:46.16 | petn-randall | Brigo: Hmm, what do you mean by that? |
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| 14:47.09 | Brigo | the wifi was working for years, and all of the sudden stopped working. |
| 14:48.01 | petn-randall | Brigo: Oh, I see. In that case it could also be a broken wifi antenna, though I'd check for software problems first. |
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| 14:49.36 | Brigo | i am checking with iw dev wlan0 scan, so, i don't think there can be any other software issue but the driver. I can check to connect close to the ap, i alread did without luck. |
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| 14:53.25 | Brigo | form the same room it can't detect the ap. could it be an ap issue? |
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| 14:56.06 | qwerty1 | Hello, I recently downloaded and unzipped a bz2 file. When I attempt to open the program via the command line I get an error that the program is not located in the path /usr/bin/<program>. However I am staring at the file in that path /usr/bin/ <program I am staring at>. Also, the error "failed to execute child" appears when I try to run the program via the gui. Any ideas? Thanks. |
| 14:56.41 | greycat | What is the exact name of the program? What is the exact command you are typing to run it? |
| 14:57.00 | greycat | If it's in the current directory, you should be typing ./myproggie to run it. |
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| 14:57.58 | greycat | If it's something you created or downloaded, you should not be putting it in /usr/bin. You may use /usr/local/bin for such things. |
| 14:58.44 | greycat | I would strongly recommend that you test the thing from the current directory (~/Downloads/ or whatever) before installing it system-wide. |
| 14:59.19 | qwerty1 | @greycat I tried running with sudo as well. its veracrpyt |
| 14:59.32 | greycat | !exact |
| 14:59.32 | dpkg | Please tell us exactly what you typed, and exactly what the error was. Please use a <pastebin> like http://paste.debian.net/ to show long output and, where possible, have the output in English (see <localised errors>). |
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| 15:00.05 | greycat | What does "ls -l ./veracrypt" show? Did you run "sudo ./veracrypt"? What output did you get? Why the hell would your first test be with sudo? |
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| 15:04.28 | qwerty1 | @greycat ls -l ./ I get ls: impossible access './veracrypt': File or directory does not exist |
| 15:04.47 | greycat | You're translating. |
| 15:04.48 | qwerty1 | @greycat correct I ran ls -l ./veracrypt |
| 15:05.10 | greycat | Where is the file? What directory are you in? Why are you not in the directory where the file is that you are trying to test? |
| 15:05.20 | greycat | !localized errors |
| 15:05.20 | dpkg | To provide command output in English instead of your native language, set your locale to an English one (e.g. C) prior to running the command, e.g. "LC_ALL=C apt-get -f install". |
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| 15:09.53 | nUll3ec | hey |
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| 15:10.22 | qwerty1 | @greycat ok. I ran it from the directory got '- rwxr -xr -x 1 root root 6622984 mar 30 08:20 ./veracrypt' |
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| 15:10.46 | nUll3ec | :> |
| 15:10.53 | greycat | OK, now if you're in that directory and you type ./veracrypt what happens? |
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| 15:11.21 | greycat | If you get errors, please run it as "LC_ALL=C ./veracrypt" and then paste that command AND all of its output onto http://paste.debian.net/ |
| 15:11.35 | qwerty1 | file or directory doesnt exist. |
| 15:11.55 | jelly | more correctly, it's an exit status of 2 |
| 15:12.09 | greycat | you may be confusing exit status 2 with errno==2 |
| 15:12.25 | jelly | execve() can return 2, too |
| 15:12.28 | qwerty1 | @greycat I am relatively new. Could you please briefly explain what LC_ALL=C is ? Thanks |
| 15:12.41 | greycat | qwerty1: if you're getting "No such file or directory" on ./veracrypt when you're sure you spelled it right, try "file ./veracrypt" and "ldd ./veracrypt" |
| 15:12.45 | jelly | when someone's trying to run a 32bit binary on a 64bit-only system |
| 15:12.49 | greycat | !localized errors |
| 15:12.49 | dpkg | To provide command output in English instead of your native language, set your locale to an English one (e.g. C) prior to running the command, e.g. "LC_ALL=C apt-get -f install". |
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| 15:13.09 | greycat | Yeah, arch mismatch is one of the possible causes here. |
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| 15:13.16 | greycat | file and ldd should be helpful |
| 15:14.35 | qwerty1 | @greycat 100% positive I spelled it right. |
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| 15:15.48 | greycat | qwerty1: use file ./veracrypt to see what kind of file it is |
| 15:18.00 | qwerty1 | @greycat here is what I get when I run file ./veracrypt ./veracrypt: ./veracrypt: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.2, BuildID[sha1]=8852ee3274c644919239dea50458d89f57c8b6de, stripped |
| 15:18.23 | greycat | And is your Linux system 32-bit or 64-bit? |
| 15:18.24 | qwerty1 | @jelly I think your supposition may be correct. |
| 15:18.45 | greycat | !multiarch |
| 15:18.45 | dpkg | Multiarch allows you to install foreign architecture packages. For example, to allow i386 packages to be installed on an amd64 system: «dpkg --add-architecture i386 && apt-get update». See http://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch and <multiarch howto>, <multiarch failures>. For the unrelated installer that can install i386 or amd64, see <multi-arch installer>. |
| 15:18.48 | qwerty1 | @greycat. Yeah im 64 so my question is how do I run the 64 bit version. |
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| 15:18.58 | greycat | Or, if there's a 64-bit version available, just get that instead. |
| 15:20.22 | qwerty1 | @greycat there is no 64 bit available just the tar.bz2 file |
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| 15:20.44 | greycat | Then follow the !multiarch instructions, and start installing 32-bit libraries. |
| 15:21.13 | qwerty1 | @dpkg thanks |
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| 15:21.45 | qwerty1 | @greycat was the second part of your sentence advice for the future? |
| 15:22.24 | greycat | If the program is dynamically linked, you will almost certainly need to install a lot of lib*:i386 packages. |
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| 15:23.19 | jelly | juding by the size, it looks like it's semistatically or badly linked so that it still looks for ld.so even if it does not actually need anything from there |
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| 15:23.49 | jelly | ldd will know, after libc6:i386 is installed |
| 15:29.56 | qwerty1 | @greycat why is it if my program is dynamically linked I will need to install a lot of i386 packages? |
| 15:30.07 | greycat | because it will need those libraries |
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| 15:33.58 | croddy | there are 64-bit binaries of veracrypt |
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| 15:35.20 | croddy | the installers are clearly labeled by architecture |
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| 15:42.25 | qwerty1 | @croddy how did you come about this? |
| 15:42.40 | croddy | i downloaded the tar.bz2 from the website and unpacked it to refresh my memory |
| 15:42.53 | croddy | interestingly there is nothing in there called just 'veracrypt' |
| 15:43.00 | croddy | but this is not really part of debian |
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| 15:44.51 | qwerty1 | @croddy what series of commands do you use to unpack a tar.bz2? |
| 15:45.07 | qwerty1 | @croddy still trying to figure out what works best |
| 15:45.07 | croddy | tar jxf filename.tar.bz2 |
| 15:45.18 | qwerty1 | @no v? |
| 15:45.25 | qwerty1 | @croddy no v? |
| 15:45.26 | croddy | i don't use the v, no |
| 15:45.32 | croddy | you can if you want to |
| 15:45.34 | qwerty1 | any reason |
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| 15:46.05 | croddy | it suppresses the output and runs faster for tars with many files. if i am unsure of the contents i will use 'tar tvf' to have a look before unpacking. but this is just a matter of preference and you can decide for yourself how you want to use it. |
| 15:46.14 | greycat | Maybe you could start by telling him where the 64-bit veracrypt is. |
| 15:46.21 | greycat | Since he claimed there isn't one. |
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| 15:46.59 | croddy | it is the only linux binary download on veracrypt.fr, there is one archive with both architectures. https://www.veracrypt.fr/en/Downloads.html |
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| 15:52.31 | greycat | I almost always use tar tzf (or tjf, whatever is applicable) before extracting an archive, to see whether it creates its own subdirectory or just spams files into the current directory. |
| 15:53.02 | greycat | You need to know that before extracting, or else you might end up with an irreversible mess. |
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| 15:57.15 | qwerty1 | @greycat thanks for your help. Found out the issue. thanks like an idiot i was installing the x86 not the 64. |
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| 16:01.27 | jelly | croddy: it only runs faster if your terminal is really slow! |
| 16:02.02 | croddy | well, someday i'll get a 115200 baud serial card |
| 16:02.29 | jelly | or switch over to a different screen(1) |
| 16:02.49 | jelly | then go back, oops, still scrolling |
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| 16:12.38 | dob1 | some utility to monitor wifi signal ? |
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| 16:26.36 | jhutchins_wk | dob1: Complete sentences work better. |
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| 16:27.20 | dob1 | is there some program that can I use to monitor the wifi's signal? |
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| 16:32.03 | jhutchins_wk | dob1: I think the network manager applets will do that. |
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| 16:32.33 | fatalerrors | hi there |
| 16:33.01 | fatalerrors | i'm using reprepro at work to provide some additional deb at work |
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| 16:33.30 | dob1 | jhutchins_wk, maybe something better |
| 16:33.44 | fatalerrors | we reorganised that to move the repo tree, served by apache on a more secure storage |
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| 16:34.03 | dgp | dob1: what do you need to monitor it for? range testing? |
| 16:34.25 | fatalerrors | i sed config files to update them accordingly to new paths |
| 16:34.34 | jhutchins_wk | dob1: conky or gkrellm might have network modules. |
| 16:34.43 | fatalerrors | but now all the packages are warned as unsecure |
| 16:34.56 | fatalerrors | how can i fix that please ? |
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| 16:36.15 | dob1 | for example there are android apps that give a lot of informations. the wifi connection on the pc I am using is very unstable I would like to investigate why. The router is in the same room |
| 16:37.07 | dgp | dob1: you probably want to look at the error counters using iw |
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| 16:37.23 | dgp | dob1: it's possible you just have one of the many crap wifi chipsets |
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| 16:38.16 | dob1 | dgp, I will take a look. the pc is a x220 lenovo |
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| 16:39.07 | dgp | dob1: use lsusb or lspci to find out what you have |
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| 16:42.08 | dob1 | it's an intel one |
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| 16:45.03 | dgp | That should be one of the better ones then. You can get signal info etc from iw. If the signal looks good and it's still bad you might need to disable power saving or so some other tweaks |
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| 16:50.38 | jhutchins_wk | dob1: Also check dmesg when you have issues, see what it thinks is happening. |
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| 17:07.21 | dob1 | jhutchins_wk, the dhcp for ipv6 was active, I disabled it |
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| 17:14.52 | jairzhino | hi all |
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| 17:25.04 | dob1 | as dhcp server I am using another pc but on the router there was a dhcp6 server active, I disabled it. It seems this was causing problems |
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| 17:29.19 | Error451 | my first question would be why you'd have IPv6 on a LAN |
| 17:29.34 | Error451 | but the answer would prolly be "because you can" |
| 17:29.43 | dob1 | I don't |
| 17:29.44 | Dagger | because your LAN is part of the internet and the internet is big enough to need v6 |
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| 17:30.25 | __m4ch1n3__ | if its part of internet then it is not lan :3 |
| 17:30.46 | Dagger | er... yes it is? that's how networks work |
| 17:30.46 | Error451 | yeah I was still totally dumbfounded by that remark |
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| 17:31.31 | Dagger | maybe your local network legitimately isn't connected to the internet, but most are these days |
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| 17:32.16 | Error451 | well I only have a couple of ports open, not my entire LAN in a DMZ |
| 17:32.24 | Error451 | so IPv$ router is fine |
| 17:32.32 | Error451 | *6 |
| 17:33.05 | Error451 | also .. less than XX million connections on my lan |
| 17:33.45 | __m4ch1n3__ | this will change with IoT and nanobots |
| 17:33.57 | Dagger | if your network is connected to the internet, then no, it's not fine. there are too many machines on the internet for v4 |
| 17:33.59 | `Kevin | and what is the reason for not having v6 on a LAN? |
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| 17:34.15 | Error451 | fortunately I still have a choice of buying non-IoT stuff |
| 17:34.35 | Dagger | I know most of the machines aren't directly connected to *your* network, but that's kinda the point of the internet -- it's a bunch of networks that are connected together |
| 17:35.00 | __m4ch1n3__ | ipv6 protocol has built in encryption, so there is always a reason to use it in my opinion |
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| 17:35.58 | greycat | (That's literally what "internetwork" means -- a network of networks. "Internet" is a shortened form of "internetwork".) |
| 17:36.35 | dgp | Error451: IPv6 has a bunch of benefits aside from the massive address space |
| 17:38.26 | Error451 | I shall look in to this |
| 17:38.29 | Error451 | :) |
| 17:40.07 | Error451 | but whatever those features are, I doubt 98% of internet user will ever need these featues |
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| 17:41.03 | dgp | 98% of the internet being the people that can still get ipv4 addresses? |
| 17:41.17 | greycat | The last time I looked at IPv6 at all, the web sites that decide whether you have IPv6 said "Nope, you still don't have it." At which point I looked at my ISP's web pages, and they said they support IPv6 if your DSL modem is one of the ones shown below. Which of course mine is not. |
| 17:41.21 | `Kevin | you should rephrase that as 98% do not care about how it works as long as it works |
| 17:41.23 | dgp | have you tried requesting a second ipv4 address for something like DNS recently? |
| 17:41.48 | Error451 | 98% being the ppl that only use a browser |
| 17:42.01 | Dagger | I've had a hell of a time getting v4 addresses myself. I have about two dozen machines here, and my ISP only wants to give me one single address |
| 17:42.18 | dgp | Error451: 98% of people will be pissed when they are stuck behind some shitty CGNAT |
| 17:42.24 | Dagger | they don't even have a mechanism to get the /27 or /26 or so that I need |
| 17:42.35 | `Kevin | Error451: I also think its more about sustainability versus what features |
| 17:42.37 | Ool | number of V4 is fix, but NAT can grow more |
| 17:42.51 | Dagger | and I'm definitely not the only person who has more than a single machine at home |
| 17:43.05 | dgp | Dagger: I can't even get a second ipv4 address for a machine sitting in a DC these days |
| 17:43.19 | dgp | Ool: and NAT is a stinking pile of shit |
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| 17:43.31 | Ool | exactly :P |
| 17:43.34 | `Kevin | dgp: i dont think most would care about that but I completely agree about NAT |
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| 17:43.47 | `Kevin | v4 is only here still because of the bandaids NAT has provided |
| 17:44.04 | __m4ch1n3__ | tfw behinf isp nat and not a single port open |
| 17:44.14 | `Kevin | otoh I would much prefer some public IP space and a simple fw set than relying on NAT |
| 17:44.18 | `Kevin | (v6) |
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| 17:44.56 | dgp | works in "IoT" and CGNAT is a major pain in the ass |
| 17:45.39 | Error451 | you forget that this is is circle jerk of nerds ... because that's what IRC is by default |
| 17:45.54 | Error451 | "people" want facebook and don't care much else |
| 17:46.01 | `Kevin | dgp: I can imagine :( otoh people are going to blame ISP who is then going to blame the manuf and its just a circular blame going nowhere |
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| 17:46.12 | FinalX | luckily all our customers have had native ipv6 allocations routed to them and on their internal networks from their modems for quite a few years now :) there's the occasional calls when site owners (including Facebook) don't have their stuff in order, and especially Apple was a big problem, but most issues have passed :) |
| 17:46.19 | dgp | Error451: see what `Kevin wrote above |
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| 17:47.30 | dgp | Error451: people might not care that their traffic is going through multiple layers of wonky garbage but they'll soon rant like a crazy asshole on twitter as soon as it stops working |
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| 17:47.52 | FinalX | NAT is more annoying and slowing things down than it is a solution, but for providers that don't have enough IPv4 to allocate, it can be an interesting stopgap. Ziggo/UPC were taking it to the extreme here, though. And they're now offering a choice to new customers: 1) Native IPv4 and no IPv6 or 2) IPv6 and NAT'd IPv4. |
| 17:47.57 | greycat | What are ordinary web site owners supposed to be doing with respect to IPv6? |
| 17:47.59 | Error451 | twitter and c=facebook deserve to die |
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| 17:48.25 | `Kevin | Error451: IF people refuse to give up v4 and it continues to shrink space wise then ISPs may become so constrained that they do stupid things wrt NAT to save IP space leading to potential connection problems and such |
| 17:48.32 | dgp | greycat: make sure their host supports IPv6 and if not move to one of the many that do |
| 17:48.40 | greycat | "Move." I see. |
| 17:48.48 | `Kevin | Error451: it isnt a question of do we need v6 for features because we want to nerd out on it... rather it has to happen |
| 17:49.10 | FinalX | greycat: Make sure their site actually responds and works well on it, and because of Apple, preferably make sure that all realservers behind loadbalancers (combination of ipv4+ipv6) all share the same session data. Apple in particular was eh, an odd duckling. Not preferring IPv6, but sort of Russian roulette as to what you'd get for different resources in pages. |
| 17:49.14 | dgp | greycat: If a hosting provider doesn't support IPv6 by now do you really trust them to host your stuff? |
| 17:49.15 | Error451 | for "the internet" yes |
| 17:49.31 | Error451 | but what I want to do on my LAN works |
| 17:49.40 | greycat | dgp: well, I live in a particular bubble called the US, where we don't have IPv6, like, anywhere at all. |
| 17:49.42 | Error451 | but like I said |
| 17:49.46 | Dagger | greycat: preferably their current host would support v6. if their current host doesn't do v6 at this point, it raises some rather worrying questions about how well that host is run |
| 17:49.51 | greycat | I don't have it at home, or at work, or on my VPS. |
| 17:49.59 | FinalX | All our Shared Hosting packages have had IPv6 on them for 10+ years now, and all our colocation users had it available natively as well. |
| 17:50.08 | Error451 | I shall look in to the other features of IPv^before I judge on using it on my LAN |
| 17:50.25 | dgp | greycat: big us providers like rackspace have working IPv6 on their vps |
| 17:50.26 | Error451 | *6 |
| 17:50.28 | FinalX | Speed is another for IPv6. Less overhead than it might seem. |
| 17:50.41 | Dagger | although in fairness, NAT64 works fairly well for hitting random websites. if you don't mind the extra latency hit |
| 17:50.45 | `Kevin | Error451: if you want to deal with v4<->v6 NAT woes later on go for it ;D |
| 17:50.58 | greycat | My VPS's "ip a" says "inet6 fe80::1a60:24ff:fe77:5cec/64 scope link". Is that a "real" address or one of the fake thingies? |
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| 17:50.59 | FinalX | To promote IPv6, we even have rate limiting on our usenet server for IPv4 and not for IPv6 ;) |
| 17:51.07 | FinalX | `Kevin: "fake" |
| 17:51.18 | Dagger | Error451: the thing is... if you're connected to the internet, then there's no judging required. you need v6 on the LAN. you don't have the option of just using it as far as the router |
| 17:51.23 | Error451 | thing is ... I live in .NL and we still have a few spare IPv4 spaces iirc |
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| 17:51.25 | Dagger | Error451: your end machines need v6 in order to use v6 |
| 17:51.56 | dgp | greycat: that's a link local address which is a real address but only usable between machines connected on that network |
| 17:52.01 | FinalX | fe80::* are "link-local" add... |
| 17:52.03 | FinalX | that |
| 17:52.15 | Dagger | (unless you plan on switching your network to a proxy for internet access? that's a valid choice, but one that nobody uses these days) |
| 17:52.19 | FinalX | Error451: providers might, not the NL |
| 17:52.19 | Error451 | I'd prolly need another router first ... I think all my hardware supports 6 |
| 17:52.35 | greycat | dgp: well, there you go. That's what my VPS provider has. |
| 17:53.21 | Dagger | .nl is at 12% deployment, there's definitely at least one major ISP doing v6 there |
| 17:53.22 | dgp | greycat: you might just need to configure it. I know rackspace at least gave people v6 addresses but then discovered they don't work on any vps created before a certain time :( |
| 17:53.31 | FinalX | Error451: Only new LIRs get a /22 from the last blocks RIPE still has. It's a Dutch provider I work for, and we even sell /29's to customers for home lines. |
| 17:53.39 | FinalX | Dagger: Yeah, us :) |
| 17:54.02 | greycat | ... shit, that wasn't my VPS. That was my home PC. Hold on. |
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| 17:54.31 | greycat | VPS's "ip a" output does not even have an inet6 line at all. |
| 17:54.39 | greycat | except on "lo" of course |
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| 17:55.04 | FinalX | "ip" is a bit awkward with ipv6. |
| 17:55.22 | FinalX | "ip a ls" shows inet6 usually if you have them, but "ip route ls" will not, only "ip -6 route ls" does :| |
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| 17:59.08 | greycat | "ip -6 a" shows only lo, and "ip -6 route" shows "default dev venet0 metric 1 mtu 1500 hoplimit 0" |
| 17:59.24 | greycat | "ip -6 route ls" is the same |
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| 18:01.08 | greycat | Kernel is 2.6.32-042stab127.2 original image was Debian squeeze, I upgraded it to wheezy a while back. OpenVZ container. |
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| 18:03.22 | dgp | I think that might have just become EOL |
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| 18:04.30 | greycat | fair point |
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| 18:04.58 | OS-35117 | hi |
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| 18:06.23 | dgp | There should be some providers in the US that sell "kvm" vps now. You have complete control over the kernel etc in that situation |
| 18:06.52 | bites | even google cloud doesn't support ipv6 on the vm instances directly. |
| 18:06.59 | FinalX | really enjoys Vultr |
| 18:07.12 | FinalX | I even have my own AS and /39 IPv6-range BGP'ing from my VPS's there. |
| 18:07.23 | FinalX | (for free) |
| 18:07.24 | dgp | The one I started using recently lets you upload an iso via SFTP and run debian installer via VNC instead of having to fix their pre-made images |
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| 18:18.43 | jhutchins_wk | I usually find the lag on ipv6 is 10x or more higher than ipv4. |
| 18:19.56 | Dagger | jhutchins_wk: something's wrong with your connection in specific, then. the average for most countries is either no difference or a slight advantage in v6's favor |
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| 18:20.08 | Dagger | failing that, a slight advantage in v4's favor. not a 10x latency difference |
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| 18:21.17 | greycat | First guess: his ipv6 is actually being tunneled through something? |
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| 18:21.37 | jhutchins_wk | Google Fiber. |
| 18:22.02 | Dagger | overloaded 6rd is possible. or it could just be that the ISP happens to have terrible routing for whatever reason |
| 18:22.25 | jhutchins_wk | ...or 6 is just laggier. |
| 18:22.50 | Dagger | it's not, though |
| 18:22.56 | jhutchins_wk | There are also a number of features in ipv4 that aren't implemented yet. |
| 18:23.18 | jhutchins_wk | in 6. |
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| 18:24.23 | Dagger | I kinda find it hard to believe that Google Fibre is that bad though... I don't suppose you happen to have/can get traceroutes to the same destination over v4 and v6 that you could show me? |
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| 18:25.27 | Ouroboro | weren't we supposed to run out of ipv4 addresses years ago? yet you can still get as many as you want for almost free |
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| 18:26.06 | Ouroboro | i did finally enable ipv6 on my vps just for the hell of it |
| 18:27.18 | greycat | Not sure when you joined, but if you read back several minutes, other people said they *cannot* get IPv4 addresses so easily. |
| 18:27.35 | Ouroboro | missed that |
| 18:27.53 | Dagger | I've not been able to get as many as I want. I can't even get more than one here, there's not even a mechanism for doing so |
| 18:28.06 | Ouroboro | you can get about 10 of them for about $30 a year |
| 18:28.26 | dgp | Ouroboro: with the big host in Germany I use for some clients you have to request single ipv4 addresses and give them a good reason. Needing a second address because some TLD needs two distinct ipv4 address for dns isn't good enough |
| 18:28.36 | Dagger | the fact that you consider paying per IP to be reasonable is saying something |
| 18:29.05 | Ouroboro | Dagger: that's just the cost of the vps, the addresses come with that |
| 18:29.41 | Dagger | I get my current VPSs at $4/year, so that's still $26/year |
| 18:30.00 | greycat | Seems I'm overpaying. |
| 18:30.21 | greycat | and $4/yr does not sound believable to me |
| 18:30.26 | Ouroboro | me either |
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| 18:30.56 | Ouroboro | i was just going to say that i have no idea how they can offer them for $30 a year, must be a loss leader |
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| 18:31.22 | Dagger | https://clients.inceptionhosting.com/cart.php?gid=13 |
| 18:31.26 | Dagger | my bad. $4.11/year |
| 18:31.28 | greycat | At first glance I thought he meant $4/month which is still less than I'm paying, but at least it's the right order of magnitude. |
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| 18:31.41 | Ouroboro | you make one tiny support request, and you blow that budget |
| 18:32.08 | dgp | 1 NAT IPv4 address .. ugh |
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| 18:33.43 | Dagger | dgp: and as a result of that, everybody's immediate response was that they didn't believe the price |
| 18:33.47 | Dagger | do you think that's a coincidence? :p |
| 18:33.53 | Ouroboro | dgp: which big host in germany? |
| 18:34.03 | dgp | Ouroboro: hetzner |
| 18:34.40 | dgp | They used to give you a block of addresses. Now you get 1 and have to beg and pay for anymore |
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| 18:35.58 | Lyberta | does "set -e" reset the exit code of the previous command? or better yet, how to check if command output has string under "set -e"? |
| 18:36.22 | greycat | set -e in a sh or bash program makes the program exit if certain things happen |
| 18:36.42 | Ouroboro | dgp: on which service? their cloud vps has a 'floating ip' feature, i believe that you get some number for free |
| 18:36.48 | greycat | If you DON'T want the program to completely exit when those things happen, stop using set -e. |
| 18:37.06 | dgp | Ouroboro: root server. 50 euro a month one |
| 18:37.24 | Ouroboro | dgp: strange |
| 18:37.31 | Lyberta | greycat, so if I use "if [ $? == 0 ]; then" do I set to then "set -e" after the check? |
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| 18:37.51 | greycat | If you use set -e, chances are your program will never GET TO that check, because it will already have exited. |
| 18:38.00 | greycat | set -e is just terrible. |
| 18:38.22 | Lyberta | greycat, I use "set +e" before running the command - grep in my case |
| 18:38.31 | greycat | :rolleyes: |
| 18:38.41 | greycat | https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ/105 |
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| 18:39.10 | dgp | Ouroboro: maybe it changed recently but I gave up trying with them after asking for another ip as .es registrar requires two distinct ip addresses and that wasn't a good enough reason for them.. so now that client is paying .50 euro a year per domain to have the domain on hetzners dns server |
| 18:40.02 | Ouroboro | dgp: maybe it is different on different services, or maybe i am misunderstanding what 'floating ip' means |
| 18:40.57 | bites | hetzner lets you order small subnets. |
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| 18:41.22 | Lyberta | greycat, so.. should I ditch bash for a better language? |
| 18:41.35 | greycat | No, you should STOP FUCKING USING set -e |
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| 18:41.52 | greycat | I don't know how to make it any clearer. |
| 18:42.05 | Ouroboro | also, i don't know whether those 'floating ips' have the same features, e.g. whether they allow rdns |
| 18:42.19 | Lyberta | greycat, but I don't like having to check for exit status after each command, is there a workaround? |
| 18:42.39 | greycat | Fine, then stop using bash/sh. |
| 18:42.40 | Ouroboro | Lyberta: sure, just don't check it :P |
| 18:42.46 | greycat | Also stop using C, because C has the same model. |
| 18:43.04 | dgp | just throw the computer out of the window and be done with it |
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| 18:43.11 | dgp | go and live on a farm and be happy |
| 18:43.16 | Ouroboro | ^^ this |
| 18:43.32 | greycat | Lazy spoiled kids these days. |
| 18:43.52 | Lyberta | greycat, well, Linux is written in C so stop using C is basically saying to ditch Debian in favor of RedoxOS |
| 18:44.06 | Ouroboro | unfortunately, farms have tons of computers too these days |
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| 18:44.09 | greycat | By using I mean writing programs in. |
| 18:44.33 | Lyberta | greycat, I don't think I wrote pure C... well, maybe a few times |
| 18:44.39 | greycat | It shows. |
| 18:44.47 | annadane | giggles |
| 18:44.54 | Lyberta | I like my C++ exceptions |
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| 18:46.16 | Ouroboro | you can probably implement exceptions in posix shell if you really want |
| 18:46.26 | dgp | likes C because he lives on a farm and cows aren't powerful enough to run the C++ stdlib |
| 18:46.55 | greycat | tosses https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ/105 at Ouroboro |
| 18:47.17 | Ouroboro | greycat: luckily, i don't have web right now :P |
| 18:47.22 | Lyberta | any ideas how to make lines 27-38 work? https://paste.debian.net/1029103/ |
| 18:47.55 | jhutchins_wk | Error checking is what drove me away from C and from programming in general. |
| 18:48.40 | Ouroboro | jhutchins_wk: a lot of that is a consequence of poor language design |
| 18:49.12 | dgp | wonder how you design something better on a PDP back in before-facebook time |
| 18:49.13 | Ouroboro | especially the part where in c every library function has its own error handling convention |
| 18:49.49 | dgp | Ouroboro: That's better than everything have the same bad convention ;) |
| 18:49.54 | dgp | s/have/having/ |
| 18:50.03 | Ouroboro | that is technically correct |
| 18:50.35 | Lyberta | dgp, I wonder why in 2018 people run crap designed for PDP |
| 18:50.59 | Lyberta | thankfully, C++ modules will remove header files in new code |
| 18:51.03 | dgp | Lyberta: because C can do literally anything. All of your new shiny languages can't do anything C can't |
| 18:51.14 | Ouroboro | dgp: i agree though, people had different priorities in those days, but it is not necessarily a justification |
| 18:51.46 | Lyberta | dgp, templates? can C do templates? constexpr? can C parse regex at compile time? |
| 18:52.13 | dgp | Lyberta: Can C++ do that without a stdlib that implements it? |
| 18:52.20 | greycat | "Do" means "produce results", not "be formatted in a certain way before compiling". |
| 18:52.46 | Ouroboro | Lyberta: you can definitely implement the first and the third, not sure what the second is |
| 18:52.55 | greycat | A C program can produce the same results given the same input as your C++ template obfuscated whatever-the-hell it is, it just won't look the same. |
| 18:53.14 | dgp | Lyberta: Using C++ doesn't magically convert your machine into some sort of super machine that works on a higher level of instruction set |
| 18:53.32 | Ouroboro | Lyberta: probably all of the compile-time stuff can be implemented in cpp |
| 18:53.51 | Ouroboro | cpp being c preprocessor |
| 18:53.54 | Lyberta | good luck making that maintainable |
| 18:54.02 | dgp | excuses |
| 18:54.15 | Lyberta | afaik c++ good compile time vectors and maps now |
| 18:54.35 | Lyberta | and I still dunno how to fix my set -e problem |
| 18:54.42 | Lyberta | got* |
| 18:54.48 | greycat | You were told. |
| 18:55.19 | dgp | Why not just use python and be done with it? |
| 18:55.41 | greycat | If that answer keeps this person out of #bash forever, I support that answer. |
| 18:56.22 | Lyberta | I dunno if official debian docker image comes with python preinstalled |
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| 18:56.29 | Ouroboro | i haven't been to #bash in a year, i have forgotten literally everything |
| 18:56.43 | annadane | greycat's site still exists ^ |
| 18:56.49 | greycat | Oh, it's a docker person too. That would earn an automatic /ignore from me. |
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| 18:57.32 | annadane | http://mywiki.wooledge.org/EnglishFrontPage |
| 18:57.35 | Ouroboro | dgp: do you really live on a farm? |
| 18:57.35 | Lyberta | I haven't found any problems with docker, maybe it's just your elitism |
| 18:57.46 | dgp | Ouroboro: no, but pretty close to it. |
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| 18:57.56 | Ouroboro | nod |
| 18:59.31 | dgp | greycat: shipping a whole os is more maintainable than packaging stuff properly |
| 19:00.25 | bites | the base stretch docker image does not come with python. |
| 19:00.27 | Lyberta | dgp, the fact that apt allows only one version of the package installed is already a red flag |
| 19:00.28 | Ouroboro | some ship a whole computer |
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| 19:01.13 | dgp | Lyberta: It's like that might break stuff or something |
| 19:01.32 | dgp | apt can handle installing packages for multiple different cpu families at a time though |
| 19:02.04 | dgp | s/at a time/at the same time/ |
| 19:02.24 | greycat | Only libraries and other things that don't share a file. |
| 19:02.33 | Ouroboro | that is a limitation of the *nix fs structure, not apt |
| 19:03.04 | dgp | greycat: yeah, but shared files should be in an all package really |
| 19:03.42 | dgp | Lyberta: and debian ships multiple versions of php, python etc that can be installed at the same time |
| 19:03.58 | Lyberta | dgp, they are different packages, right? |
| 19:04.01 | bites | those have different names. |
| 19:04.12 | greycat | dgp: I mean, you can't install coreutils:i386 and coreutils:amd64 because both packages would try to provide /bin/ls |
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| 19:04.58 | Lyberta | dgp, I think in this day and age every user should have their own repo and pull stuff from global filesystem only if necessary |
| 19:05.04 | greycat | *plonk* |
| 19:05.11 | greycat | jeeeeesus |
| 19:05.40 | Lyberta | when I build program I pull c++ libs into my user folder and link them |
| 19:06.02 | Lyberta | same with pip |
| 19:06.10 | dgp | greycat: true. Just being able to install ARM libs and headers on an amd64 machine is pretty major for me at least |
| 19:06.49 | dgp | Lyberta: so you want to have duplicates of stuff all over the place with no hope of keeping it all up to date? |
| 19:07.03 | Lyberta | dgp, up to the user |
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| 19:07.22 | Ouroboro | dgp: have you never heard of winsxs? :P |
| 19:07.23 | greycat | dgp: isn't that the python virtualenv model? |
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| 19:07.49 | Lyberta | yes, you create as many virtualenvs as you need |
| 19:07.56 | Lyberta | Guix supports that |
| 19:08.08 | dgp | Lyberta: they'll love you when it turns out whatever locally installed version of openssl you link against turns out to be a piece of shit |
| 19:08.45 | Ouroboro | let's not talk about the debian version of openssl |
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| 19:08.55 | Lyberta | dgp, in some cases I'm forced to use libssl1.0.0 because that's what is required by proprietary software |
| 19:10.00 | bites | but there are already formats that do that. what sense does it make for debian to implement that? |
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| 19:10.10 | bites | build an appimage or a snap package if you need to. |
| 19:10.34 | Lyberta | I guess I'll have to at some point |
| 19:10.59 | dgp | Lyberta: and Debian supplies old versions of libraries where needed for situations like that. There's not need to have multiple copies of stuff all over the place |
| 19:11.04 | bites | for debian to replace apt with something like that would be insanity. |
| 19:11.24 | dgp | s/not need/no need/ |
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| 19:12.08 | Ouroboro | yeah, the thing about apt is that it actually works, most of the time, let's try to not break that |
| 19:12.45 | dgp | What he's talking about sounds like buildroot inception. You have on buildroot userland with just enough to download another copy of buildroot to compile another userland with whatever single application you need in it |
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| 19:17.29 | Ouroboro | i guess i don't see a reason why you couldn't have a package manager that creates a tree structure of isolated packages |
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| 19:18.59 | Ouroboro | it would just be more complex to maintain, i think that is the main argument against |
| 19:19.09 | greycat | Because packages exist on a system, and they modify and affect the system. They provide files in a single file system space, and they provide services in a single init system's service name space, and some of these services listen on TCP ports, etc. |
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| 19:20.36 | Ouroboro | yes, to the extent that there is a package called 'the system', of which there can only be one version, it does impose a limitation |
| 19:20.47 | Lyberta | hence why ~/.local should become a root directory for programs under that user |
| 19:21.07 | greycat | Sounds like you want to reinvent virtual machines or containers or something. |
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| 19:21.07 | dgp | why not call it .trashfire |
| 19:21.08 | mebeeps | Wow! Feeling sexy :P |
| 19:21.46 | mazoltov | hey mebeeps |
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| 19:33.39 | hxmuller | hello, is vanilla kernel compilation question a topic for here, or #debian-next? |
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| 19:34.06 | greycat | if you're building a .deb of it according to the Debian Kernel Handbook, then it's here |
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| 19:36.41 | hxmuller | greycat: thanks, will ask in a bit. have to run an errand suddenly. |
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| 19:55.42 | valeech | Hello - What is a good method to verify a process I want to pin to a specific cpu with taskset has actually been pinned t othat cpu? When I run taskset on a process, ps still shows it running on the original cpu. Does taskset move the process immediately or over some time period? |
| 19:56.10 | greycat | If you can't tell whether it worked or not, then it must not have been a vitally important thing to do. |
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| 20:26.28 | Kocane | Am I just bad at Googling or is it not possible to get Intel Quick Sync hwacc for h264, etc, on Debian? |
| 20:26.36 | Kocane | I saw some Ubuntu guides but I guess it don't really help me. |
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| 20:29.13 | dgp | Kocane: package names etc in the ubuntu guide should line up with debian. |
| 20:29.37 | Kocane | dgp: I tried the deb I downloaded as per someguys guide; intel-graphics-update-tool_2.0.6_amd64.deb |
| 20:29.42 | Kocane | Its for ubuntu 17.04 |
| 20:30.05 | Kocane | Fails with missing package fonts-symbola and aptdaemon |
| 20:30.32 | greycat | Well, debian has fonts-symbola |
| 20:30.55 | greycat | And "aptdaemon" is "purely virtual", so a good "apt-get -f install" ought to do something. |
| 20:31.25 | greycat | Not endorsing this notion of "download and install a .deb mentioned in some random ubuntu guide", but if it works.... |
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| 20:31.34 | jelly | ,v aptdaemon |
| 20:31.35 | judd | Package: aptdaemon on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.45-2+deb7u1; jessie: 1.1.1-4+deb8u1 |
| 20:31.46 | greycat | Ah, may need to add a jessie line. |
| 20:32.10 | jelly | ,v python3-aptdaemon |
| 20:32.11 | judd | Package: python3-aptdaemon on amd64 -- jessie: 1.1.1-4+deb8u1 |
| 20:32.55 | jelly | ,bug rm aptdaemon |
| 20:32.58 | judd | Bug http://bugs.debian.org/825272 in ftp.debian.org (closed): «RM: aptdaemon -- ROM; Replaced by PackageKit»; severity: normal; opened: 2016-05-25; last modified: 2016-06-24. |
| 20:33.09 | Kocane | greycat how is it I add the jessie line to get some jessie packages? |
| 20:33.37 | jelly | what is intel quick sync? |
| 20:33.53 | jelly | hw decoding of h264 is done via VAAPI |
| 20:34.01 | Kocane | how about encoding? |
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| 20:34.28 | Kocane | It's my understanding that, that is what Quick Sync can be used for.. Hwacc for encoding |
| 20:35.50 | jelly | I have no idea about that |
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| 20:48.19 | Kocane | I installed some aptdaemon and fonts-symbola debs i found |
| 20:48.21 | Kocane | for Jessie |
| 20:48.28 | Kocane | I don't know how bad an idea that is |
| 20:48.33 | Kocane | running Stretch |
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| 21:05.40 | Tazmain | Hi all, if I wanted to use debian for my work laptop (arch user at home) there is a unstable repo to be more up to date right ? |
| 21:05.57 | Tazmain | like I would like to keep up with VS code and intelliJ |
| 21:06.02 | well_laid_lawn | yep |
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| 21:06.59 | Tazmain | dam google I want to find results for debina not ubuntu |
| 21:07.36 | Tazmain | how stable is plasma on debian? Its solid on arch, and kaosx |
| 21:08.17 | mefistofeles | Tazmain: debian uses the LTS plasma release, which is pretty stable |
| 21:08.41 | Tazmain | what version is plasma-desktop on currently ? |
| 21:08.57 | Tazmain | I am on 5.12 |
| 21:09.00 | greycat | ,v plasma-desktop |
| 21:09.01 | judd | Package: plasma-desktop on amd64 -- wheezy: 4:4.8.4-6; jessie: 4:4.11.13-2; stretch: 4:5.8.6-1; buster: 4:5.12.5-1; sid: 4:5.12.5-1 |
| 21:09.02 | mefistofeles | Tazmain: 5.8 is the LTS |
| 21:09.13 | mefistofeles | greycat: thanks |
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| 21:09.21 | greycat | if you're on 5.12 then you're in #debian-next territory at least |
| 21:09.22 | farruinn | Tazmain: packages.debian.org |
| 21:09.29 | Tazmain | oh so if I use sid I can get 5.12 ? |
| 21:09.33 | mefistofeles | sure |
| 21:09.40 | mefistofeles | or buster |
| 21:09.55 | greycat | you just said you already had 5.12 |
| 21:09.57 | Tazmain | greycat, isn't that unstable ? |
| 21:10.02 | Tazmain | yeah on my arch install :p |
| 21:10.07 | Tazmain | picking a distro for work |
| 21:10.08 | greycat | ... |
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| 21:10.42 | annadane | the newest upstream is 5.13 which should be in sid soon, sid currently has AFAIK, 5.12, but it's your call whether you want to use unstable for a newer plasma, it's obviously riskier than stable |
| 21:10.50 | Tazmain | I know 5.12 is good, that's why I asked |
| 21:11.03 | greycat | judd just told us what every branch has |
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| 21:11.27 | Tazmain | hmm depends on how the package maintainer is, kaos runs bleeding edge plasma without issues |
| 21:11.45 | mefistofeles | Tazmain: just use whatever suits you best |
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| 21:12.42 | Tazmain | ,v intelliJ |
| 21:12.43 | judd | No package named 'intelliJ' was found in amd64. |
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| 21:13.23 | somiaj | Tazmain: sure, but kaos isn't debian, and so isn't a solution to someone running debian. |
| 21:13.41 | Tazmain | somiaj, no I understand, and they focus on just plasma as well. |
| 21:14.27 | somiaj | debian often has to port, ensure that these big desktops work on different arches besides i386/amd64 |
| 21:14.32 | annadane | if you just want a comparison of plasma in different distros, i'd try ##linux |
| 21:14.41 | annadane | debian support is unlikely to know every single distribution |
| 21:14.55 | Tazmain | debian still supports 32bit ? |
| 21:15.30 | annadane | personally if i really wanted 5.13 i'd probably still just use debian as i'm most familiar with it |
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| 21:17.32 | mefistofeles | Tazmain: yes |
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| 21:19.00 | annadane | i've only ever really gone through 2 KDE transitions, one took a long time, the other took a few days |
| 21:19.37 | annadane | but stable of course will be 5.8 until the next stable release so if you want to discuss 5.13 in debian then #debian-next on irc.oftc.net is the place to be |
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| 21:21.05 | Tazmain | I don't want 5.13 |
| 21:21.08 | Tazmain | 5.12 is fine |
| 21:21.19 | Tazmain | I just want kdeconnect really, and the fixes in 5.12 |
| 21:21.25 | annadane | oh, sorry, i obviously can't read |
| 21:21.29 | annadane | yeah, sid is already on 5.12 |
| 21:21.38 | annadane | ,v plasma-desktop |
| 21:21.39 | judd | Package: plasma-desktop on amd64 -- wheezy: 4:4.8.4-6; jessie: 4:4.11.13-2; stretch: 4:5.8.6-1; buster: 4:5.12.5-1; sid: 4:5.12.5-1 |
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| 21:30.20 | Tazmain | is it recommended to to a reinstall over distr-upgrade? |
| 21:31.00 | babilen | dist-upgrade from what to what? |
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| 21:31.37 | Tazmain | one version to the next |
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| 21:32.14 | mefistofeles | Tazmain: dist-upgrade is fine as long as you have been a good sys admin and know what you are doing |
| 21:32.19 | mefistofeles | that is, follow recommendations |
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| 21:32.37 | somiaj | Tazmain: what version are you running and what version do you want to dist-upgrade too |
| 21:32.39 | babilen | Tazmain: Generally speaking you want to simply upgrade (dist-upgrade). I'm under the impression that you might want to "upgrade" to testing or unstable. Is that correct? |
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| 21:33.06 | Tazmain | I would be running the unstable repo yes |
| 21:33.12 | babilen | Upgrades between stable releases are documented in the release notes |
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| 21:34.23 | babilen | Tazmain: In that case, I'd add testing and unstable repos first and set testing/buster as default release. Then upgrade and once that's done, you can remove the configuration to set the default release and install the packages that are in unstable but not testing |
| 21:34.30 | babilen | dpkg: tum |
| 21:34.30 | dpkg | «echo 'APT::Default-Release "testing";' >> /etc/apt/apt.conf», edit sources.list, copy your non-security testing lines and change one set to unstable, then apt-get update. Use apt-get -t unstable install foo; to install foo from unstable rather than testing as usual. WARNING to SYNAPTIC users: Synaptic ignores Default-Release: set Preferences->Distribution. |
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| 21:35.13 | Tazmain | babilen, and partition |
| 21:35.24 | babilen | partition? |
| 21:35.54 | Tazmain | yeah /root /home /var etc |
| 21:36.01 | babilen | I'd also recommend to read https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable |
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| 21:36.39 | babilen | Sorry, I don't quite follow - How does "partitioning" affect installing packages from testing or unstable? |
| 21:36.57 | Tazmain | babilen, oh if I had to reinstall or an upgrade broke |
| 21:37.04 | Tazmain | ooh unstable looks good |
| 21:37.04 | annadane | upgrades have the best chance of succeeding if you do it from a minimal install |
| 21:37.15 | annadane | which is what i always do |
| 21:37.39 | babilen | Tazmain: make sure to install apt-listbugs and to configure it to show important bugs as well |
| 21:38.22 | Tazmain | oh I didn't even know about this |
| 21:38.25 | Tazmain | thanks babilen |
| 21:38.45 | babilen | Read the DebianUnstable wiki page, we tried to summarise a lot of "best practices" there |
| 21:39.10 | babilen | Also - Testing and unstable are supported in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net rather than here |
| 21:39.50 | Tazmain | will check it out |
| 21:41.40 | babilen | Testing and unstable are fairly boring at the moment, but I only run a pretty minimal system (Xorg, i3, gnome-terminal, emacs25, â¦) so I'm not sure how that translates to larger DEs |
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| 21:41.49 | babilen | boring as in "not much breaking" |
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| 22:24.23 | hxmuller | The question I did not get to ask earlier, is what's best practice for kernel headers when compiling pristine (vanilla) kernel. But I answered it while I was out. |
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| 22:25.35 | hxmuller | I'm going to install them in a directory next to the source and point make to that directory |
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| 22:36.46 | dashs | How can i make systemd mount remote filesystems and use NIS properly? |
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| 22:37.56 | Includes08 | top_left="screen -dmS top_left sh -c 'omxplayer --win \"0 0 960 540\", does anyone have a tool for the pixels? that i can draw area's and spits out x1 y1 x2 y2? |
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| 22:38.19 | Includes08 | i'm sure some genius must have thought of that already ^^' |
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| 22:48.43 | Includes08 | wheres the genius |
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| 22:50.24 | ytrezq | Hello, I just send a bug titled Please provide static archives inside libtqt4-devâ¯! with |
| 22:50.27 | ytrezq | Package: qt4-x11 |
| 22:50.28 | ytrezq | Version: 4:4.8.7+dfsg-11 |
| 22:51.03 | ytrezq | But Iâm not finding them in the search engine, why ? |
| 22:51.24 | somiaj | static archives? |
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| 22:51.39 | somiaj | you should have gotten an email response saying your bug was submitted. |
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| 22:52.06 | ytrezq | somiaj: .a files |
| 22:52.10 | ytrezq | ar file |
| 22:52.38 | ytrezq | somiaj: Thatâ's the point, I didnât received an e-mail. |
| 22:53.13 | somiaj | how did you submit the bug? |
| 22:53.19 | ytrezq | all version are affected, so I didnât specified version header. Is it ok in that case ? |
| 22:53.28 | OS-36254 | msg NickServ identify b0ws3r |
| 22:53.36 | ytrezq | By mailing submit@bugs.debian.org |
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| 22:54.03 | somiaj | it can take a few minuents (5-10 max) to process the new bug. Or maybe there was an issue with your email. |
| 22:54.17 | ytrezq | with Package followed by version lines in the begining |
| 22:54.24 | ytrezq | Itâs been 24min |
| 22:55.05 | ytrezq | now |
| 22:55.10 | somiaj | you could use reportbug and have it save the email into a .tex file you could copy over. Does your email client send raw text emails or do html formattting? |
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| 22:56.21 | somiaj | though I think since you are doing a source package, the name needs to be src:qt4-x11 |
| 22:56.45 | ytrezq | raw text e-mail. I cannot use report bug since itâs about a missing package libQtGui is the only libarary without a static archive for static executable linking which prevents me from exporting my arm64 project to other Linux distributions |
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| 22:57.48 | ytrezq | and more broadly https://softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/q/50597/2341 |
| 22:57.52 | Includes08 | top_left="screen -dmS top_left sh -c 'omxplayer --win \"0 0 960 540\", does anyone have a tool for the pixels? that i can draw area's and spits out x1 y1 x2 y2? |
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| 22:58.04 | somiaj | but I'm not positive there, but I'm not finding a binary package named qt4-x11, only the source package. And I'm only going but my experience with the BTS, I think source packages need to be src:name, but not positive with the bts |
| 22:59.05 | ryouma | when i mv a file from dir a to dir b, the ctime gets updated. i did not expect this. has this always been the case? |
| 22:59.08 | ytrezq | somiaj: in ubuntu, you need to only use source package for reporting bugs, not binaries, is it also true with debian. |
| 22:59.08 | ryouma | (jessie) |
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| 23:00.07 | ryouma | shouldn't mv that is not across fses preserve all 4 file times (abcm) |
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| 23:01.25 | somiaj | ytrezq: both can be used, but i'm not that familar with the BTS, I just know when browsing it they have a seperate link for src:packname bugs |
| 23:02.12 | somiaj | ytrezq: and the cgi header is src=packagename not pkg=packagename, unsure how this links with reporting. It was just an idea. Anyways, at this time if you didn't get an email back I think something happened to the email, I just can't say what forsure. |
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| 23:03.47 | somiaj | ytrezq: https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting -- look for source, I see this, Source: foopackage, the equivalent of Package: for bugs present in the source package of foopackage; for most bugs in most packages you don't want to use this option. |
| 23:04.21 | somiaj | again, i'm not positive what is going on, but it might have something to do with you are using a source package name, not a binary package name |
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| 23:05.19 | somiaj | ytrezq: https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting -- look for source, I see this, Source: foopackage, the equivalent of Package: for bugs present in the source package of foopackage; for most bugs in most packages you don't want to use this option. |
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| 23:05.24 | somiaj | again, i'm not positive what is going on, but it might have something to do with you are using a source package name, not a binary package name |
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