IRC log for #bzflag on 20180603

00:21.19*** join/#bzflag infobot (ibot@rikers.org)
00:21.19*** topic/#bzflag is https://BZFlag.org || http://ohloh.net/p/bzflag || https://bzflag.org/help || Channel Logs: http://infobot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || 2.4.14 released! https://forums.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=19953
00:21.19*** mode/#bzflag [+v infobot] by ChanServ
00:56.49allejoslowly wants to nudge YAML into 2.5... *cough* https://github.com/jbeder/yaml-cpp
01:04.53blast007for configs?
01:11.58blast007if so, I was looking at TOML as well: https://github.com/toml-lang/toml#user-content-example  https://github.com/toml-lang/toml#user-content-comparison-with-other-formats
01:13.37blast007I suppose also replacing the ban/report/groupdb files with YAML/TOML
01:21.09*** mode/#bzflag [-v Foo_man_choo] by ChanServ
02:23.48allejoYAML is supposed to be a superset of JSON. so in theory, if we include a YAML lib, we'd be able to parse JSON too (could come in handle for making web calls, e.g. plugins)
02:24.02allejobut yea, YAML for configs
02:26.58allejooh if bzfs was wants to fetch a possible masterban list from some URL, could fetch it as json
02:28.04blast007and MOTD, list, etc :)
02:28.33allejoyah! those things exist too apparently...
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03:12.42*** join/#bzflag BZnotify (BZnotify@gateway/service/github.com/x-kkwayvrwwcxyfbhj)
03:12.42BZnotify[13bzflag-dependencies] 15blast007 pushed 2 new commits to 062.4: 02https://git.io/vhWdd
03:12.42BZnotify13bzflag-dependencies/062.4 142b99bb3 15Scott Wichser: Add GLEW 2.1.0.
03:12.42BZnotify13bzflag-dependencies/062.4 147f06b1c 15Scott Wichser: Fix ignores for PDCurses build files.
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14:08.56BZnotify[13bzflag] 15blast007 pushed 3 new commits to 062.4: 02https://git.io/vhltA
14:08.56BZnotify13bzflag/062.4 14c76b8d6 15Alfredo Tupone: Use GLEW for getting openGL entry points.
14:08.56BZnotify13bzflag/062.4 141e69fc1 15Scott Wichser: Add GLEW to the Windows build.
14:08.56BZnotify13bzflag/062.4 14af954ef 15blast007: Merge pull request #110 from atupone/glew...
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14:15.26BZnotify[13bzflag-dependencies] 15blast007 pushed 1 new commit to 06master: 02https://git.io/vhlqn
14:15.26BZnotify13bzflag-dependencies/06master 14c72c8d7 15Scott Wichser: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/2.4'
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14:54.11BZnotify[13bzflag] 15blast007 pushed 2 new commits to 06master: 02https://git.io/vhlYU
14:54.11BZnotify13bzflag/06master 14bf895f5 15Scott Wichser: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/2.4'
14:54.11BZnotify13bzflag/06master 147e50a9a 15Scott Wichser: Remove a couple references to the removed fastmap plugin.
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16:19.17blast007macsforme: if we move to OpenGL 3.2, which version of OpenGL ES would that most closely align with?
17:01.56*** join/#bzflag BZnotify (BZnotify@gateway/service/github.com/x-tjdcsbgjjtujhmpb)
17:01.56BZnotify[13bzflag] 15blast007 pushed 1 new commit to 062.4: 02https://git.io/vhlnJ
17:01.56BZnotify13bzflag/062.4 149c19ff0 15Scott Wichser: Add GLEW information to the Linux and MacOSX readme files.
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17:06.42BZnotify[13bzflag] 15blast007 pushed 1 new commit to 06master: 02https://git.io/vhlnW
17:06.42BZnotify13bzflag/06master 1426ec0f7 15Scott Wichser: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/2.4'
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17:41.30JeffMfile management for tank parts is going to be slightly complex
17:52.59macsformeblast007: OpenGL ES 3, specifically as far as having a similar shader language
17:54.12macsformeit would also have framebuffer object support (including multisample render buffers) and vertex array objects like OpenGL 3.2 requires
17:55.24macsformeso that should minimize the handling of differences between the two specs if we went with OpenGL 3.x
18:36.38macsformeI just compiled and ran the current master branch... I see some significant issues with the new textures
18:36.47JeffMsuch as?
18:36.56macsformethe ground texture has a more visible and obvious repeat pattern now
18:37.07JeffMa little
18:37.18JeffMhook up multi-texutre :)
18:37.26JeffMI do have another one we can try that's less like that
18:37.42JeffMplease make a list and I'll see what I can do
18:37.54macsformethe box wall texture isn't even seamless, and since it's more high-contrast there is aliasing when viewing at a distance, and it also has a more obvious repeat pattern now
18:38.18JeffMscreenshots please, it's seamless for me.
18:42.03macsformehttps://imgur.com/a/0tTSW1v
18:42.22macsformein the first image, you can clearly see the seam right down the middle of the screen
18:42.32JeffMyeah that is odd
18:42.45macsformethe second image shows the box wall pattern repeat visibility
18:42.55JeffMyeah for tall boxes
18:43.03JeffMbooring textures it is then
18:43.20JeffMat least till there is a multi-pass shader
18:44.42macsformethe aliasing can't be shown in a screenshot, but when you are viewing a box at a distance and moving around, there is some aliasing because it's too high-contrast
18:44.50JeffMsure
18:45.02JeffMwhat filtering/ aniso options are you running?
18:45.45macsformekind of a moire effect
18:45.46blast007I also never realized that the anti-flicker setting rotates the box roof texture (or I guess.. un-rotates it)
18:45.55JeffMyeah, I found that out too
18:46.00JeffMit makes me sad
18:46.08JeffMit allignes it with the world
18:46.12blast007yeah
18:46.23JeffMforcing the roof textures to be undirectional
18:46.26macsformeaniso 16/16, MSAA x8
18:46.37JeffMI'll revert the textures
18:47.18JeffMafter I build dependencies again
18:47.20blast007I ran the game, and was like "woah, why am I only getting 80FPS on a 660 Ti", then realized I was running 32x MSAA  :P
18:47.33JeffMmy card allowed up to 64x
18:47.36JeffMit was not fast
18:48.20blast007we could probably limit that to powers of 2, max of 16
18:48.25blast007sorry, multiples of 2
18:48.50macsformeor just set a sane default for it
18:49.04JeffMmacsforme: how does the outter wall look to you?
18:49.07macsformeprobably 8 is enough
18:49.11JeffMand pyramid?
18:50.38macsformethe outer wall has a worse repeat pattern like the others... the pyramid is a little better (with random pyramids, anyway), but pyramids are usually not very large
18:53.38macsformeeven with the pyramids the repeat pattern is pretty visible due to the bright flecks here and there
18:54.10JeffMyeah with out multi-texutre and detail textures, only very low contrast stuff will repeat
18:54.17JeffMhence why all the bzflag textures and bland
18:55.13JeffMand you'll probably just implement a sell shader anyway.
18:57.40macsformeI think pybzflag implemented some basic multitexturing for the ground that alleviated the repeat pattern a little bit: http://static.bzexcess.com/misc_screenshots/pybzflag/python%202008-01-29%2022-18-20-30.png
18:58.01JeffMyeah, even a simple detail texture goes a HUGE way
18:58.02macsformeobviously, I think we could do better than that now
18:59.56JeffMthat pyr texture repeats a lot too
19:04.32JeffMheh, I love that none of the screenshots on the website show the standard textures or default maps
19:06.39macsformethis is a really interesting (albeit long) video that has some info on how to do detail textures: https://youtu.be/U_WaqCBp9zo
19:06.48macsformegood example at 23:12
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19:09.21BZnotify[13bzflag] 15JeffM2501 pushed 1 new commit to 06master: 02https://git.io/vhl8w
19:09.21BZnotify13bzflag/06master 145d8d658 15JeffM2501: revert high res texture changes.
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19:09.25JeffMI'll leave that to an actual artist
19:09.34JeffMI was just tyring to do what I could with the assets avaialble
19:11.11macsformeI think new textures would be really good, and I've been experimenting with them for a while... it's just not something that we can grab from somewhere and drop in
19:11.26JeffMnot with the object mechanism that bzflag uses
19:11.35JeffMthose textures work fine in other systems
19:11.37macsformeright, the basic tiling
19:11.52JeffMwell and the lack of mesh controll that simple boxes has
19:12.26macsformedo you own a copy of FilterForge? I just bought it this week with a discount coupon they sent me
19:12.34JeffMwith more geometry it breaks it up more.
19:12.38JeffMnope
19:13.25macsformeit seems like it would be a really good tool for this
19:13.31JeffMprobably
19:16.16JeffMI'm not allowed to drop $100 on software right now, weddings is expensive
19:17.50macsformethere is a free 30-day trial
19:18.04JeffMmy intenent wasn't to art up textures
19:18.08JeffMsomeone else can do that
19:21.22macsformeI guess until we are on the shader pipeline we can't do too much, anyway
19:21.45macsformeon that note, are we settled on GL 3.x and GL ES 3?
19:21.46JeffMnot with out increasing geometry
19:38.34JeffMmacsforme: when do you expect to start on the GL refactor?
19:41.47blast007I think there's been GL 3.2 capable hardware and operating systems for long enough to support it for 2.6
19:42.14blast007I'll just buy a slightly less old laptop ;)
19:44.17macsformeJeffM: soon after we've settled on the version we want to target
19:44.33JeffMI don't think anyone has a problem with 3.2
19:44.39JeffMso I'll wait on my tank stuff
19:44.46JeffMit'll get in the way
19:48.53macsformeblast007: do you care if I re-do the premake scripts so we only use them for mac, and leave the gmake and Visual Studio build stuff in place?
19:49.22blast007nope, no problem with that
19:51.36macsformeand if I leave in the capability to generate visual studio files and gmake scripts on an experimental basis, and I try to keep it working? we could also use premake as the basis for an experimental linux snap package later, if we want
19:52.00JeffMI think blast007 already has a snap setup
19:52.08blast007I did get a working flatpak going, haven't tried snaps yet
19:52.15JeffMahh flatpack
19:52.42blast007but sure, keep the capabilities in the premake stuff
19:52.55macsformeok
19:55.04macsformecan we merge/discard/tag the current premake PR like we did with the other dead projects, so it's at least in our history if we need something from it? the new approach will be quite a different patch
19:56.03macsformeI think BulletCatcher facilitated that previously, when we first moved over to git from subversion
21:05.14*** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ
21:34.59spldartI assume master branch client broken right now ;)
21:35.55blast007spldart: what do you mean?
21:36.49blast007is it not working for you?
21:37.25spldart#./configure in master branch dumps no bzflag client binary! (need OpenGL) However output of glxinfo | grep "OpenGL version" is OpenGL version string: 3.3.0 NVIDIA 340.106
21:37.46blast007install libglew-dev
21:37.57spldartJust thought I'd have fun tinkering in the development...
21:38.00spldartAh! Ok
21:38.05blast007(new dependency)
21:39.14allejoshould probably add that README.Linux
21:39.14spldartGit 'r done!
21:39.19spldartindeed
21:39.43macsformehe did
21:40.39spldartI assume I need to rerun autogen as well
21:40.47blast007yes
21:41.00spldartXD
21:41.57spldartwowzers. Make just fails altogether
21:42.17blast007fixing
21:42.24spldartoki doki :)
21:42.46spldartno biggie. I know it's dev branch. Just having fun tinkering
21:51.34*** join/#bzflag Zehra (~Zehra@unaffiliated/zehra)
21:54.20ZehraI'm not sure if anyone read this: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-03/microsoft-is-said-to-have-agreed-to-acquire-coding-site-github
21:54.40ZehraBut will this effect BZFlag by any chance?
21:54.49Flashhighly unlikely
21:54.53allejohopefully, nope
21:55.12Flashyou don't spend money to buy something and then break it
21:56.16ZehraMicrosoft has broken a few items over time. :P
21:56.18blast007sure you do
21:56.49Flashok, you don't set out to do that ... not if you want to stay in business
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22:11.40blast007JeffM: should Model.h and ModelRender.cxx in src/geometry match and both be called either Model or ModelRender?
22:11.58JeffMEhhhhhh
22:12.10JeffMModel is used by several things
22:12.25JeffMIt’s the data for a model and is header only
22:12.33blast007k
22:12.46JeffMModel renderer has one function, so I felt wasteful to give it its one header
22:13.13JeffM<PROTECTED>
22:13.14blast007wasn't sure because the functions from ModelRender.cxx were defined in Model.h
22:13.36JeffMYeah, I kinda cheesed on that part
22:13.39blast007k
22:13.51JeffMIt felt odd to have a header with so little
22:14.11JeffMBut they could totally go in a modelrenderer.h
22:15.17JeffMModel is also used by the wavefrontobj reader and will be used by the tank geo manager
22:15.41JeffMIt’s an abstract mesh, in case another model format is needed later
22:15.58JeffMIt’s code from model tool
22:16.50JeffMZehra: mostly it means more integration with visual studio
22:17.38JeffMThey already have good git integration, they will most likely move the github plugin internal like they did for unity.
22:18.34ZehraJeffM: whew, at least it is nothing to worry about. :)
22:18.48blast007you can worry a little
22:18.57Flash^^
22:19.04Zehraeek
22:19.07JeffMThey just closed codeplex, so it makes sense that they would like a leader in that area
22:19.23JeffMYes, as with all change there is risk
22:19.46JeffMThe sky is falling if you ask slash dot
22:20.01spldartmmMMmm. The excitement of life.
22:20.21JeffMI highly doubt that they will kill it
22:20.33JeffMMs is heavily invested in git
22:20.56JeffMThere internal version control system, was converted to it
22:20.58blast007someone joked that there will be a new GitHub for Business that is just rebranded Visual Studio Team Services, like they did when they bought Skype ;)
22:21.15JeffMAnd they are committing extensively to add larger codebase support
22:21.47JeffMWellllll... team server can already do git endpoints
22:22.02JeffMAnd the backend of team server kinda sucks
22:22.23JeffMSo using a github style service as a backend is a win
22:22.38blast007"We're removing IRC notifications and instead adding Skype notifications!"
22:22.53JeffMI don’t think they will get that deep into it
22:23.02JeffMThey want to bring deva into it
22:23.08blast007"Github will be down for a few hours on Tuesday for some Windows Updates"
22:23.17JeffMI would not be surprised to see azure deployments integrated
22:23.24JeffMThey want people to use azure
22:24.31JeffMMs was the largest corporate contributor to the Linux kernel one quarter
22:24.45JeffMAnd they have committed a lot to git
22:25.00JeffMCode lens with git is kinda super cool
22:25.09JeffMOnline blame and revision info
22:25.15JeffMInline I mean
22:26.17JeffMGit hub also has a profit problem, so this may also save them
22:41.10JeffMThere is another service in that space they could have bought that would have been hilarious, sourceforge
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22:41.21BZnotify[13bzflag] 15blast007 pushed 1 new commit to 06master: 02https://git.io/vhl2T
22:41.21BZnotify13bzflag/06master 142e7f20b 15Scott Wichser: Fix the build on Linux.
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22:41.26blast007spldart: try that
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22:44.56BZnotify[13bzflag] 15blast007 pushed 1 new commit to 06master: 02https://git.io/vhl2G
22:44.56BZnotify13bzflag/06master 146ba2e0b 15Scott Wichser: Remove extra space.
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22:47.12spldartsry. distracted by db super ep 65. I'll do a pull real quick
22:49.22spldartThere's a bun in the oven 8)
22:50.13spldartGetting some warnings but still building
22:55.22spldartI gotta question. While you do 'make' and see all that roll past in the terminal... Is that a log you can review later?
22:55.43spldartand build finished
22:55.49spldartls
22:55.58blast007Enter root password:
22:56.09spldart:)
22:56.13spldartI have a binary
22:56.34spldart./
22:56.42spldartdamni.... I mean darnit
22:57.17spldartHeh! Segmentation fault :)
22:57.24blast007heh
22:57.36blast007but it compiles.  SHIP IT!
22:57.43spldartConsider it shipped
22:58.47spldart*hoping good kai throws earings at goku/vegeta to battle joined zomasu
23:09.16BulletCatcherIf we ever decide that GitHub isn't meeting our needs it will be easy to migrate our Git repositories to a new cloud host or even self-host.
23:09.52spldartSelf-host! I was already thinking!@!
23:10.09BulletCatchermacsforme: The commits in pull requests are already in our repo, but it can be tricky to find them.
23:10.13BulletCatcherFor example, "git fetch origin pull/62/head:old_premake" downloads the PR#62 commits into your local repo and gives it local branch name "old_premake".
23:10.15BulletCatcherIf you're just looking, be careful not to push that branch back to GitHub.
23:12.38spldartSince I haven't done much in the way of checkouts or even commits sinced we were subversion. Is the dev branch safe from any dorky mistakes I may make?
23:13.04spldartI can just git pull whenever to get latest commits.
23:14.15spldart*me worries about pushing the wrong button*
23:14.33BulletCatcherYou don't have commit access to our GitHub repo, spldart, so you can't do any damage anyone else will see.
23:14.56spldartExcellent
23:15.14BulletCatcherIf you want to contribute you may open a pull request the same as anyone else.
23:16.06Flashspldart: well founded fears. I pushed the wrong button early on
23:17.23BulletCatcherAt least you weren't touring NORAD in the room next to the WOPR.
23:17.41spldartI used to have keys back in the day. I was always triple thinking before I did anything.
23:17.46spldartKinda nerve racking
23:17.59Flashsvn was much more straightforward
23:18.18spldartI did prefer it. Personally
23:18.45FlashI'll tell you, I'm migrating from svn to git at work, and it's growing on me
23:19.32spldartOh!@ Speaking of work.  I need to text the owner...
23:21.04BulletCatcherI learned much when migrating the BZFlag repo from Subversion to Git, and Git has many advantages in an even slightly complex environment.
23:21.37Flashyes, but the cost is that it introduces complexity :)
23:22.30spldartMeh. Not answering. I just made the assumption you guys new best. I'm just floating around in one of the outer valence shells.
23:23.07BulletCatcherlowers spldart's enegry state
23:24.12Flashis there less energy in the outer shells?
23:24.19BulletCatcherGit directly supports complexity, while clever hacks are often required to do the same in Subversion.
23:25.17BulletCatcherGit can be just as easy to use as Subversion for a simple project.
23:26.01spldartdhehe
23:26.26spldartJust don't try to destroy my energy or information ;)
23:41.26the_mapwe won't. we destroyed it when it mattered, which is why it's energy now
23:44.08spldartSo.. you.. converted.. it ;)
23:44.30BulletCatchertotally
23:44.41spldart8D

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