| 00:30.13 | JeffM | chat messages can be broken down into 6 types right? PrivateMessage, PublicMessage, TeamMessage, ServerPrivateMessage, ServerAnnoucment, ServerTeamMessage |
| 00:30.20 | JeffM | not counting the /me stuff of course. |
| 00:40.31 | blast007 | guess it depends if you count the server as a player in the context of chat |
| 00:40.45 | JeffM | I am not |
| 00:41.02 | JeffM | it's so I can make sure messages have the right ID based on the inent |
| 00:41.19 | JeffM | those are the 6 intended types of messages I can think of |
| 00:41.51 | JeffM | player = a real human player, team = a group of real human players, server = the application this code is running on :) |
| 00:43.15 | blast007 | if you're not aiming for strict BZFlag compatibility, you could also just make everything a group chat, with private messages just being a group of 2 |
| 00:43.51 | blast007 | I believe that's how Matrix does it |
| 00:44.08 | JeffM | this is just for API notifications |
| 00:44.17 | JeffM | the packer will setup the correct messages |
| 00:49.49 | JeffM | I'm just trying to see If I missed any of the actualy used cases |
| 00:50.07 | JeffM | techincaly the message can be server player to server player, or team to team, but do those make sense? |
| 00:50.35 | JeffM | nobody can send TO the server |
| 00:50.49 | JeffM | and a TEAM can't be a from. |
| 01:09.59 | blast007 | in BZFlag there's also an admin chat |
| 01:12.13 | JeffM | is it a special player ID? |
| 01:20.48 | *** join/#bzflag infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 01:20.48 | *** topic/#bzflag is https://BZFlag.org || http://ohloh.net/p/bzflag || https://bzflag.org/help || Channel Logs: http://infobot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || 2.4.12 released! https://forums.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=19720 |
| 01:20.48 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 01:55.51 | allejo | 252 |
| 01:55.59 | allejo | bzfs treats admins as a "team" |
| 01:56.14 | allejo | there's eAdministrators for the API and AdminPlayers for internal use |
| 02:05.10 | JeffM | What determines membership in that group |
| 02:07.18 | allejo | the adminMessageReceive perm determines whether or not you'll see an admin message |
| 02:09.12 | allejo | i.e. it'll send you the chat message if you do have that perm. the client doesn't filter it out |
| 02:09.19 | allejo | it = server |
| 02:12.47 | JeffM | So the special player Id is just for client display |
| 02:15.39 | allejo | pretty much, but the client does prepend the whole "[Admin]" thing so it knows it's intended for admins |
| 02:21.34 | JeffM | Are there any other ids that are used for chat only groups. |
| 02:23.32 | allejo | NoPlayer = 255; AllPlayers = 254; ServerPlayer = 253; AdminPlayers = 252; FirstTeam = 251; |
| 02:24.00 | JeffM | The hell is first team? |
| 02:26.12 | blast007 | the team before second team |
| 02:26.17 | allejo | oh and "LastRealPlayer" is 243 |
| 02:26.47 | allejo | FirstTeam looks like it's used for calculating the last real player, which is FirstTeam (251) - NumTeams (8) |
| 02:27.18 | allejo | but no clue what that's used for |
| 02:28.06 | blast007 | would anyone care of multicast server discovery went away? |
| 02:28.08 | blast007 | if* |
| 02:28.34 | blast007 | (local network discovery of servers, at least if they're on port 5154) |
| 02:28.44 | allejo | wouldn't |
| 02:29.10 | blast007 | which doesn't always work too well since it assumes your local network can do DNS host lookups for local systems |
| 02:29.46 | blast007 | it'd be one less thing to try to convert to IPv6 :) |
| 02:36.53 | macsforme | I don't think that would be a problem... it does work for me when I run bzfs on the same machine as the client, but since the server list is randomized I type the address/port in anyway (rather than scrolling through 10 pages of servers), so there seems to be little benefit to it |
| 02:38.11 | allejo | typing localhost and 5154 is faster for me too |
| 02:44.39 | *** join/#bzflag nadir (uid134094@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ygelryinrdqnebdw) |
| 02:48.11 | the_map | just to play devil's advocate, the server list *could* sort localhost to the top |
| 02:56.07 | blast007 | it's not just localhost (and I don't know if it ever shows up as "localhost") |
| 02:56.22 | blast007 | it's LAN discovery, so it shows the base hostname of the computer running it |
| 02:57.55 | allejo | ^ |
| 02:58.53 | blast007 | I'd just rather not have to figure out how to make that work for mixed IPv4/IPv6 environments :) |
| 03:00.37 | allejo | it's worth killing off |
| 03:38.06 | JeffM | Would a lan not have ipv4? |
| 03:39.24 | blast007 | doesn't need to |
| 03:39.49 | blast007 | and I'd need to change other stuff related to it, so it would still mean I'd have to mess with it |
| 14:39.40 | *** join/#bzflag ZLSA_ (uid97184@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wleiudsvdhmtiqbp) |
| 16:52.46 | JeffM | blast007: I'm assuming UDP broadcast still works on IPV6? |
| 16:55.44 | blast007 | afaik, IPv6 doesn't have broadcasts |
| 16:56.17 | blast007 | seems only multicast, unicast, and anycast |
| 16:57.18 | blast007 | https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms740095(v=vs.85).aspx |
| 17:00.23 | blast007 | I don't know if our multicast.cxx/h files were actually doing multicast. To me it just looks like it's sending a packet to the broadcast address, but I'm not familiar enough with the differences between broadcasts and multicasts. |
| 17:03.23 | *** join/#bzflag nitroxis (n@nxs.re) |
| 17:11.11 | JeffM | I belive broadcast goes to a special address, then the IPV4 switch hardware sends that to the entire subnet. |
| 17:11.41 | JeffM | multicast is mask based, where you say "only do these ranges" |
| 17:11.56 | JeffM | so I belive you could do a multicast to the subnet too |
| 17:12.09 | JeffM | but what I"m really wondering... is a lan going to be IPV6 ONLY? |
| 17:12.45 | JeffM | or will it have a least a local IPV4 address? because you could do lan discovery (not connection) over IPv4 if you had to |
| 17:13.06 | blast007 | a LAN can certainly be IPv6 only |
| 17:13.15 | JeffM | can sure, but will it? |
| 17:13.20 | blast007 | just as it can be IPv4 only or mixed IPv4/6 |
| 17:13.20 | JeffM | in practice? |
| 17:13.44 | JeffM | so that lan can't print to crapy HP printers :) |
| 17:14.11 | JeffM | I do agree that lan play is miniumal |
| 17:14.12 | blast007 | HP printers from the last several years support IPv6 |
| 17:14.29 | JeffM | sure, but I'm thinking of your average BZFLag player |
| 17:14.33 | JeffM | they have ANCIENT hardware |
| 17:14.38 | blast007 | and this is *only* for automatic discovery, and *only* for servers running on the default port |
| 17:15.03 | blast007 | and I don't recall it generally working for me anyway, since it'd assume DNS resolution worked |
| 17:15.16 | JeffM | it may be simple enough to just have the hosting server show "connect to this address" |
| 17:15.20 | blast007 | I still had to put in the IP manually |
| 17:15.53 | JeffM | do you want to support airgapped lans? |
| 17:16.07 | blast007 | for automatic discovery? |
| 17:16.12 | JeffM | yeah |
| 17:16.30 | blast007 | and I assume you don't mean airgapped but just LANs on different subnets |
| 17:16.40 | JeffM | I mean lans with no internet access |
| 17:16.56 | blast007 | ah |
| 17:16.57 | JeffM | spaceship game has a similar problem |
| 17:17.09 | JeffM | one computer is the main screen |
| 17:17.14 | JeffM | and other comptuers need to connect to it |
| 17:17.23 | JeffM | one idea was to use like a crap list server |
| 17:17.39 | JeffM | server hits a web serevice and sends it's LOCAL ip/port |
| 17:17.49 | JeffM | service records that and it's global IP |
| 17:18.12 | blast007 | most FPS games that offer a dedicated server don't have automatic LAN discovery |
| 17:18.24 | JeffM | clients connect to the service, they have a similar or identical global IP< and are given the local port info that's attached to it |
| 17:18.26 | JeffM | then they try it |
| 17:18.29 | blast007 | they have a "connect to server" box where you put in the host/IP and port |
| 17:18.40 | JeffM | yeah |
| 17:18.45 | JeffM | I've seen some that try to make it easy |
| 17:19.12 | JeffM | like server contacts a service, sends lan info, and gets back a human readable name, like "Fancy underpants" |
| 17:19.21 | JeffM | then clients enter that in to get the lan info |
| 17:19.40 | JeffM | you can use a service to mediate |
| 17:19.51 | JeffM | if you have internet conenction |
| 17:19.51 | blast007 | that's like our existing list |
| 17:20.09 | JeffM | yes, but doesn't show all things to all people |
| 17:20.17 | JeffM | it's a subset of list functionality |
| 17:20.51 | JeffM | there are several ways to handle it |
| 17:20.56 | blast007 | so like steam group servers? |
| 17:21.07 | JeffM | I don't know what that is |
| 17:21.39 | blast007 | on Steam, you can have groups of people, and you can advertise a dedicated server (at least source engine servers) to a Steam group |
| 17:22.03 | JeffM | sure, if you had friends list features in global you could do that |
| 17:22.35 | blast007 | we already have that feature - bzfs can advertise to one or more groups and the list will only show you those servers if you're part of the group |
| 17:26.40 | JeffM | sure it'd be a variant of that |
| 17:27.02 | JeffM | I'd make it so friend style groups would not need a public key |
| 17:27.18 | JeffM | and put them in a different list server display section |
| 17:27.21 | JeffM | I'd tab the display |
| 17:27.26 | JeffM | global/ firends/ local |
| 17:27.35 | JeffM | well global/ leauge/ friends / local |
| 17:27.44 | JeffM | where local is just your computer for testing :) |
| 17:27.51 | blast007 | just not 100% sure how the local discovery would work |
| 17:28.17 | blast007 | would we still be doing a broadcast/multicast within the LAN? |
| 17:29.37 | blast007 | with IPv4 you could figure out (in at least simple NAT networks) that the server and the client are behind the same router |
| 17:29.53 | blast007 | but not so with IPv6, where each device behind the router will have it's own public IP |
| 17:36.02 | blast007 | for local service discovery, Avahi/Bonjour could be used, if we really want to :) |
| 17:46.56 | JeffM | take it out of the next 2.4.x update, see who complains, if it's big put it back in and come up wiht a plan for 2.5, because at that point you'll have some end users to talk to :) |
| 17:47.05 | JeffM | agile! |
| 18:00.13 | JeffM | so back to the admin group, if someone's admin permision is removed while they are conencted, do they get pulled from the admin group? |
| 18:02.13 | JeffM | and does the server ever broadcast to the group? |
| 18:07.51 | blast007 | no |
| 18:08.16 | blast007 | global group memberships are only evaluated during token verification |
| 18:08.52 | blast007 | though I guess it depends what you mean by "someone's admin permission is removed" |
| 18:09.37 | blast007 | if you mean if they're removed from a global group, no, their don't lose the adminMessageReceive permission |
| 18:09.51 | blast007 | a plugin could remove that permision from a user |
| 18:17.54 | JeffM | yeah that's what I was thikiing plugin |
| 18:18.07 | JeffM | some how they loose the permission at runtime on the actual server instance. |
| 18:34.15 | JeffM | also is it valid to send a private message to yourself? |
| 18:39.07 | allejo | yes itâs valid |
| 18:39.20 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:40.41 | allejo | I use it to send messages to players from a plugin when itâs important since theyâll often have the chat only tab active |
| 18:41.16 | allejo | but itâs common for chat systems to support it. IRC, slack support it as notes to yourself. you can email yourself too |
| 18:44.24 | JeffM | bzflag is not slack :) |
| 18:45.39 | JeffM | what about sending to an empty team |
| 18:45.56 | JeffM | and do you have to be a member of a team to send to it? |
| 18:46.04 | JeffM | as a real player, not a plugin |
| 18:46.20 | blast007 | you can message yourself on IRC as well |
| 18:46.30 | JeffM | bzflag is not IRC, but I get it :) |
| 18:46.39 | blast007 | :) |
| 18:47.14 | blast007 | (we certainly copied plenty of IRC slash commands though) |
| 18:47.49 | JeffM | the client only looks for / commands it undersdtands then sends the rest to the server? |
| 18:48.45 | blast007 | yeah |
| 18:49.15 | blast007 | as for sending messages to a team, with a client you can't send to a different team |
| 18:49.16 | JeffM | so /commands are not really part of the protocoll, just something that bzfs processes out of chat messages. |
| 18:49.24 | blast007 | bzfs doesn't allow it |
| 18:49.30 | blast007 | but a plugin can send to a specific team |
| 18:49.42 | blast007 | if nobody is on that team, it just won't send anything |
| 18:49.42 | JeffM | sure, this is all for the processing of MsgMessage |
| 18:50.02 | blast007 | (but it still probably triggers an event showing that it sent a message) |
| 18:50.27 | JeffM | chat messages get decoded, put into a common strucuture, are sent to a processing thread, where they may or may not be filtered, then fired out as needed. |
| 18:50.37 | JeffM | the API can call the direct send messages itself. |
| 18:50.59 | blast007 | for the admin channel, there are two permissions. one is for being able to send to the admin channel and one for being able to receive from the admin channel |
| 18:51.27 | JeffM | I've implemented the admin channel as a custom group, it now allows other custom groups, this is just one it makes by defualt. |
| 18:51.46 | JeffM | permisions will be handled by a different module, it'll put people in/out of that group |
| 18:51.56 | JeffM | slash commands will be handled by a different module too. |
| 18:53.58 | JeffM | for teams, is it an error if a client sends a message to a different team? or should it just always use that player's team? |
| 18:58.31 | blast007 | I'd think it should be an error, at least with the current protocol |
| 18:59.09 | JeffM | that makes sense |
| 18:59.43 | blast007 | though I suppose even with a different proto is should be an error |
| 19:00.08 | JeffM | yeah it's a rules error, not a techical one |
| 19:00.08 | blast007 | they'd be trying to send to a group they're not a part of and don't otherwise have "send to" permissions |
| 19:19.56 | JeffM | there we go, one threaded chat filtering system. |
| 20:06.27 | *** join/#bzflag ZLSA_ (uid97184@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xdeupcqchxeeojvh) |
| 21:10.51 | *** join/#bzflag nadir (uid134094@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ueiltrrcdtjjljta) |
| 22:45.34 | *** join/#bzflag bertman (~bert@unaffiliated/bertman) |