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| 00:21.11 | *** topic/#bzflag is https://BZFlag.org || http://ohloh.net/p/bzflag || https://bzflag.org/help || Channel Logs: http://infobot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || 2.4.10 released! https://forums.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19401 |
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| 08:57.00 | afreshmelon | macsforme: Yes, the problem comes back after removing. |
| 10:19.45 | blast007 | afreshmelon: I guess the next question is, does it fail to start fullscreen with the 'set resolution' line removed both when you're running at the native resolution and a scaled resolution? |
| 10:22.17 | afreshmelon | Oh I don't know, I don't really wanna change my resolution scaling. But I can see about it in a bit |
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| 13:02.13 | afreshmelon | blast007: Having scaling completely off fixes it on launch |
| 13:03.40 | blast007 | okay, thanks |
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| 15:27.02 | JeffM | think they will announce a new desktop macsforme ? |
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| 16:23.46 | macsforme | I'm cautiously pessimistic ;) |
| 16:24.06 | macsforme | thanks, afreshmelon |
| 16:43.56 | blast007 | hadn't Apple already hinted that they were going to come out with a proper mac pro again? |
| 16:55.01 | JeffM | they hinted "oh down't worry we still love the desktop" |
| 16:55.19 | JeffM | but that may mean "We love it so much, we were brave and killed it, here is an iOS notebook" |
| 16:55.55 | macsforme | they did say there will be a new mac pro, but it isn't expected until next year or later |
| 16:56.00 | JeffM | yeah |
| 16:56.06 | JeffM | I bet this will all be macbooks |
| 16:56.23 | JeffM | MAYBE a macbook with a dock |
| 16:56.26 | JeffM | they've done that before |
| 16:56.53 | JeffM | first they are going to say how great iOS is |
| 16:57.03 | macsforme | probably the macbook "pro" and the ipad "pro" |
| 16:57.33 | JeffM | "we've removed the screen and all ports, now you interact with your computer entirely via siri" |
| 16:57.57 | JeffM | and by shaking your iphone |
| 16:57.59 | blast007 | even the power port |
| 16:58.13 | JeffM | you just need to subcribe to applePower |
| 16:59.36 | macsforme | they are probably working on wireless charging, in truth... which will be great until ten years from now when everyone has cancer from the radiation or has developed a sensitivity to electromagnetic waves |
| 17:00.01 | JeffM | different kind of radiation |
| 17:00.30 | the_map | "Sorry, you aren't going to be having children. But you bought a mac, so it's probably for the best for humanity." |
| 17:01.06 | the_map | maybe in this next release you'll be able to like ... change theme |
| 17:01.43 | JeffM | why would you want to do that? they paid a designer for that one theme... it is good enough for you |
| 17:01.44 | the_map | maybe they'll come out with a sane version of Swift |
| 17:02.03 | the_map | Apple - Have It Our Way |
| 17:02.06 | blast007 | wireless charging is genereally pretty wasteful too |
| 17:02.20 | blast007 | only thing I use it for is my toothbrush :) |
| 17:02.23 | the_map | pff, that's nothing. the cost is wasting money |
| 17:02.46 | blast007 | the only other device I have that support it is my HP Touchpad |
| 17:02.54 | the_map | you want a $50-100 next to worthless keyboard? |
| 17:03.16 | the_map | scales back his anger against Apple |
| 17:03.20 | the_map | ok I'm good |
| 17:03.31 | JeffM | powermat did have the best wireless charging comerical... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_Hy02V5zrY |
| 17:03.35 | macsforme | their keyboards are actually really nice |
| 17:03.43 | blast007 | until a key comes off |
| 17:03.44 | the_map | turns anger back on |
| 17:03.50 | the_map | ok |
| 17:03.54 | the_map | no |
| 17:03.55 | JeffM | now that they don't have clear bucket that collects skin an hair |
| 17:04.24 | blast007 | I'm not a fan of laptop-style keys |
| 17:04.49 | JeffM | yeah, not a lot of throw |
| 17:05.02 | blast007 | they're fragile |
| 17:05.05 | JeffM | I also can't use anything other than a split keyboard these days |
| 17:05.11 | the_map | in the latest laptop, it doesn't feel like you're hitting the keys. it's like the keys all broke before it left the factory |
| 17:05.20 | the_map | so they're all already down |
| 17:05.28 | blast007 | little bits of plastic for the hinges with TINY little hubs to old them together |
| 17:05.35 | blast007 | nubs* |
| 17:05.36 | the_map | so you just push them that last little bit that the spring is trying to give |
| 17:05.39 | blast007 | hold* |
| 17:06.19 | macsforme | I meant their external keyboards... I don't like their butterfly laptop keyboards either |
| 17:06.31 | blast007 | I'm talking about their external keyboards |
| 17:06.35 | the_map | it's like they made a mistake and were too embarrassed to admit it and so they went with it |
| 17:06.45 | the_map | their external keyboards are horrible too |
| 17:06.46 | blast007 | at least the ones from our 2010-ish iMacs are laptop style keys |
| 17:07.01 | JeffM | I think they want a single key type for all systems |
| 17:07.09 | JeffM | to keep manufacturing costs down |
| 17:07.17 | blast007 | no, I just don't want a laptop keyboard for a desktop |
| 17:07.36 | JeffM | well they hate the desktop and want you to buy a laptop :) |
| 17:07.37 | the_map | maybe...they'll finally give up on that ctrl/command thing they're doing |
| 17:07.44 | JeffM | cleary you arn't trendy enough |
| 17:07.55 | JeffM | how long is your hipster beard? |
| 17:08.14 | the_map | me? or blast? |
| 17:08.15 | blast007 | I shaved it off. It was too mainstream. |
| 17:09.02 | the_map | did you have to ask Apple for permission first? |
| 17:09.14 | JeffM | no, he gave them 30% |
| 17:09.33 | the_map | oohh, I wonder if they'll include a built-in package manager in this release |
| 17:09.44 | JeffM | it's called the apstore |
| 17:09.45 | macsforme | it's called the app store |
| 17:09.49 | JeffM | they've had that for years |
| 17:09.57 | the_map | I'm talking about something so you don't have to use brew |
| 17:10.06 | the_map | *homebrew |
| 17:10.14 | JeffM | why would they do that? |
| 17:10.24 | the_map | o.O |
| 17:10.27 | the_map | um |
| 17:10.28 | JeffM | if anything they want to make OSX more like iOS |
| 17:10.38 | JeffM | you really don't understand apple do you? |
| 17:11.00 | the_map | I'm trying to, but it's hard to ignore basic logic |
| 17:11.11 | JeffM | they don't follow logic |
| 17:11.15 | JeffM | they follow profit |
| 17:11.30 | the_map | read that out loud... |
| 17:11.32 | the_map | slowly... |
| 17:11.42 | JeffM | why do you think they keep selling a desktop PC with 4 year old hardware for a huge mark up |
| 17:12.20 | the_map | because there are people that buy that for the logo without thinking about if it's worth anything? |
| 17:12.35 | the_map | "oh, it's apple. it's shiny. it's good." |
| 17:13.59 | the_map | macsforme: I'm not trying to offend you, which it probably seems like, for which I apologize. I know you're intelligent and can make your own wise decisions, and you have decided that mac is a good fit for you. I just have a lot of things against Apple. |
| 17:14.34 | the_map | macsforme: I also expect that you know enough to put the system in a good condition for developing on, like installing homebrew. |
| 17:15.01 | the_map | But I would expect that a lot of people buy it a bit blindly. |
| 17:15.36 | macsforme | if you didn't notice, I've been a willing participant in the ridicule lately :P |
| 17:16.34 | the_map | ok, just making sure I didn't cross a line :) |
| 17:17.48 | JeffM | blah blah blah tvOS and watchOS |
| 17:19.44 | macsforme | my main gripe at this point is that you would think they could make a headless desktop tower with at least the option for a dedicated GPU (even a laptop dedicated GPU) and a quad-core processor, that doesn't cost $3,000, and then keep it updated every year or two (okay really, every year doesn't seem unreasonable) |
| 17:20.17 | JeffM | yeah, a 1000$ desktop with no display and a GPU would sell like hotcakes |
| 17:20.43 | JeffM | I don't need a billion cores and a cooling system that took 100 years to design |
| 17:20.50 | JeffM | just put a fan in it |
| 17:21.18 | JeffM | they have no computers that take actual standard PCI-e graphics cards now do they? |
| 17:21.24 | blast007 | nope |
| 17:21.42 | JeffM | bet they come up with yet another connector/port |
| 17:21.48 | blast007 | they really need to bring back a proper tower design for the mac pro |
| 17:21.52 | JeffM | The Tsunami port! |
| 17:21.52 | macsforme | who needs that when you have thunderbolt? :P |
| 17:22.11 | JeffM | TB is PCe 1x |
| 17:22.36 | JeffM | what do they use all the CPU channels for? |
| 17:22.53 | the_map | weather, news, espn |
| 17:23.32 | blast007 | TB 3 is 4x PCIe 3.0 |
| 17:23.37 | the_map | https://xkcd.com/927/ |
| 17:24.13 | blast007 | and 1 and 2 are both 4x PCIe 2.0 |
| 17:25.30 | JeffM | ah stil, 4x.... |
| 17:25.35 | blast007 | yeah |
| 17:25.43 | macsforme | toy story character watch faces... mind == blown |
| 17:25.44 | JeffM | and itns't it shared across all devices on the bus? |
| 17:25.51 | JeffM | they are so brave |
| 17:26.03 | blast007 | to infinity, and beyond! |
| 17:31.30 | macsforme | all of Apple's design compromises led me to do this: http://imgur.com/a/f0yVK |
| 17:32.19 | macsforme | the eGPU is a pain to keep working with software updates and whatnot, but it's not like I have a choice with the desktop options they have right now |
| 17:32.47 | blast007 | 80% faster than Chrome... of course, it has less features too... |
| 17:35.24 | macsforme | "High Sierra"... someone please tell me this a joke... |
| 17:35.31 | JeffM | but it supports live streaming of apple events, unlike chrome |
| 17:35.45 | allejo | macsforme: nope :( |
| 17:36.00 | allejo | omgomg apfs |
| 17:38.16 | JeffM | bet they don't mention openGL and stick with metal2 |
| 17:39.18 | blast007 | write an OpenGL layer on top of Metal :P |
| 17:40.12 | JeffM | that is what they are supposed to friggin DO! |
| 17:40.45 | blast007 | but I mean, it's not like anyone has to wait for them, right? couldn't anyone do it? |
| 17:41.07 | JeffM | maybe it doesn't link that way |
| 17:43.02 | JeffM | meh... iMac CPU update |
| 17:43.24 | JeffM | maybe that will hold them for another 5 years |
| 17:45.49 | macsforme | are there USB-A ports? |
| 17:46.05 | blast007 | looked like there was |
| 17:46.18 | blast007 | thinking it had 4 USB-A and 2 USB-C |
| 17:46.27 | JeffM | I think they just shoved updated hardware in the same case |
| 17:46.37 | macsforme | good, so they learned one thing |
| 17:46.59 | macsforme | no, they did add TB3 |
| 17:48.13 | the_map | TB3? |
| 17:48.26 | JeffM | thunderbolt |
| 17:48.34 | the_map | oh |
| 17:48.36 | the_map | right |
| 17:53.27 | JeffM | iMac pro...... |
| 17:54.03 | JeffM | it's a pained imac..... |
| 17:54.25 | blast007 | do they not understand their pro users? |
| 17:54.46 | Leppp | seems like if your device is âspace greyâ then it must be new and better |
| 17:55.31 | JeffM | well they put TWO fans in it |
| 17:56.34 | JeffM | wonder if they'll talk about the new space age hinge material that resists the massive amount of heat that comes off of the thing |
| 17:57.13 | JeffM | I don't think they want to make anything that sells for less than 1000$ |
| 17:57.26 | macsforme | don't worry, they will throttle down the CPU and GPU long before that becomes an issue... too many users would complain about it being hot to the touch |
| 17:57.50 | the_map | key phrase: "sells for", not "worth" |
| 17:58.45 | JeffM | yep, they require you to buy one of there screens |
| 17:58.56 | blast007 | I like how they're comparing it to a machine that you can actually upgrade |
| 17:58.57 | JeffM | no mini, no desktops |
| 17:59.02 | macsforme | $5k... |
| 17:59.06 | blast007 | wonder if they'll solder in the RAM too |
| 17:59.07 | JeffM | yup |
| 17:59.10 | JeffM | probalby |
| 17:59.18 | JeffM | those cards are on the mobo too |
| 17:59.20 | allejo | :'( |
| 17:59.26 | JeffM | they sell apliances |
| 17:59.51 | macsforme | at least it's arguably a pro machine, so now there will be something to buy |
| 18:00.06 | JeffM | sure |
| 18:00.22 | JeffM | for those people that can deal with having the built in display |
| 18:00.27 | JeffM | and don't ever want to upgrade |
| 18:00.43 | JeffM | it'll be pro for the first year, then midrange, then just sad |
| 18:03.31 | macsforme | when they cite their iOS adoption rates they forget to mention that your device bugs you every 24 hours until you update versions, and you can't disable that |
| 18:03.50 | JeffM | yet when MS does it, they are evil ;) |
| 18:04.01 | macsforme | and if you delete the update, it will just download it again the next time you're on wifi |
| 18:04.31 | the_map | Apple is most definitely evil too JeffM |
| 18:04.39 | JeffM | I'd say more evil |
| 18:04.41 | macsforme | there's a difference between bugging users for updates and forcibly pushing the updates out |
| 18:05.10 | JeffM | needs to find a VR headset |
| 18:05.13 | the_map | wait, are you talking about windows or mac, macsforme? |
| 18:05.25 | blast007 | the difference with MS is that they also included more telemetry and ads |
| 18:05.26 | macsforme | I was contrasting the two |
| 18:05.37 | the_map | <macsforme> there's a difference between bugging users for updates and forcibly pushing the updates out |
| 18:05.40 | the_map | which? |
| 18:06.37 | macsforme | okay to be fair, apple did also force push an update for some security issue... just once that I can remember |
| 18:07.34 | the_map | no, that was a serious question |
| 18:08.09 | the_map | I'm typing one handed because my other hand is involved with eating |
| 18:08.11 | allejo | i remember that update, it was seamless though |
| 18:09.56 | macsforme | some people just took issue with the concept of it |
| 18:10.13 | JeffM | there are people who will take issue with ANYTHING |
| 18:10.24 | blast007 | I take issue with you taking issue with things |
| 18:10.41 | the_map | I ... don't feel like typing that much |
| 18:10.42 | JeffM | I'm offended by you being offended |
| 18:10.52 | the_map | so I don't have an issue |
| 18:11.09 | JeffM | I have issues with you not having issues. |
| 18:11.12 | allejo | I take offense to plain red starbucks christmas cups |
| 18:11.20 | blast007 | JeffM: but my level of offense is much higher, so it's the only one that matters |
| 18:11.41 | JeffM | the GPL way is to have a problem with people who want to be more free than you :) |
| 18:16.39 | JeffM | wonder how many of the iOS11 features won't work until I upgrade my phone. |
| 18:17.52 | JeffM | can they give me a carplay home screen that deosn't suck? |
| 18:22.03 | the_map | but then it wouldn't match any other apple product |
| 18:22.29 | JeffM | the home screen built into the car is better |
| 18:26.41 | macsforme | so now the Maps application will tell you the speed limit... I wonder how long will it be until we have traffic hearings where they have to sort out discrepancies between what was posted and what the app said |
| 18:27.10 | JeffM | my car does that now |
| 18:27.15 | the_map | "I'd like an impartial jury of android users" |
| 18:31.51 | blast007 | yeah, GPS units that show posted speeds isn't new at all |
| 18:32.01 | blast007 | the several year old Garmin I have has that |
| 18:32.17 | JeffM | and a bunch of third party map apps |
| 18:32.44 | JeffM | my car shows in in the binnacle |
| 18:32.52 | JeffM | next to the compas |
| 18:32.55 | JeffM | and street name |
| 18:40.30 | blast007 | http://www.theonion.com/article/apple-unveils-panicked-man-with-no-ideas-33814 |
| 19:46.45 | JeffM | and an echo clone... |
| 19:46.52 | JeffM | that is really expensive |
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| 20:08.22 | blast007 | depends if it does the voice processing locally or not |
| 20:09.49 | blast007 | Alexa does it all in the cloud, so the device doesn't need much horsepower. |
| 20:10.03 | blast007 | I'd assume the Google thing does that as well. |
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| 20:46.24 | JeffM | even siri does a lot of processing in the cloud on the phone |
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