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| 18:36.24 | JeffM | heh, another project I follow has someone wanting to put it into debian but the models and assets don't have a license they like so they asked "can you just remove all those?" |
| 18:40.26 | blast007 | was it EmptyEpsilon? |
| 18:45.19 | JeffM | yeah |
| 18:45.32 | blast007 | uses models from turbosquid :) |
| 18:45.38 | JeffM | yeah I know |
| 18:45.51 | JeffM | but still "can you just remove those" is not an acceptable thing to ask |
| 18:45.58 | blast007 | hehe |
| 18:46.31 | JeffM | the attitude of just remove what doesn't fit is horrible for games |
| 18:46.37 | blast007 | then it could just be a "ship exploded and launched you into the depths of space" simulator |
| 18:47.07 | JeffM | those exist |
| 18:47.12 | JeffM | have you played it? |
| 18:47.19 | blast007 | nope |
| 18:47.27 | JeffM | did they show up in debian IRC? |
| 18:47.50 | blast007 | the intention to package (ITP) was posted there |
| 18:48.01 | JeffM | ahh |
| 18:48.20 | blast007 | and my first thought after going to their site was "oh. that's gonna be a problem." |
| 18:48.30 | JeffM | the vast majority of his assets were purchased with donations |
| 18:48.37 | JeffM | yeah I don't think debian serves that game well |
| 18:48.56 | JeffM | it's a good game though |
| 18:49.11 | JeffM | it does what my final school project wanted to do |
| 18:49.30 | blast007 | wouldn't other distributions have similar reservations if they knew it was turbosquid resources? |
| 18:49.37 | JeffM | yeah |
| 18:49.53 | JeffM | it's going to be a problem for anything that uses comerical assets |
| 18:49.55 | blast007 | so s/debian/linux/ :) |
| 18:50.07 | JeffM | well package managers |
| 18:50.16 | blast007 | yeah |
| 18:50.31 | blast007 | maybe a linux dedicated server could make it in |
| 18:50.41 | blast007 | but that certainly reduces the overall usefulness |
| 18:50.50 | JeffM | or split the client from the assets and let the client download assets |
| 18:50.57 | JeffM | or just publish on steam |
| 18:51.03 | JeffM | spend the 100$ |
| 18:51.05 | blast007 | that's still probably put it into 'contrib' on Debian, at least |
| 18:51.09 | blast007 | that'd* |
| 18:51.48 | blast007 | my understanding is that contrib is for free software that depends on closed-source (or non-DFSG) packages or resources |
| 18:51.51 | JeffM | I really think that the current policy is going to hurt games in the long run, if they want it to be a deskop OS they need a way to play games with comerical components and keep them up to date. |
| 18:51.57 | JeffM | ahh |
| 18:52.22 | blast007 | so, a PS2 emulator that is open-source but needs a copy of the PS2 BIOS might be contrib |
| 18:52.29 | JeffM | sure |
| 18:52.35 | JeffM | and how often can you update contrib? |
| 18:52.47 | blast007 | probably the same as everything else |
| 18:52.52 | blast007 | and contrib is not turned on by default |
| 18:58.39 | blast007 | After the last disccusion with #debian-games about how updates to games can work, I had pondered what a "steam for FOSS" would look like |
| 18:59.25 | JeffM | yeah, I think someething like that needs to exist |
| 18:59.52 | JeffM | and all the tech to make it clearly exists |
| 19:01.08 | blast007 | http://flatpak.org/ |
| 19:01.23 | JeffM | really it should LOOK just like steam, but have the option of getting stources, and applying mods |
| 19:01.42 | blast007 | could integrate with that, and Ubuntu's Snaps, and fall back to other methods if necessary |
| 19:01.48 | JeffM | sure, it can do that on the backend, but really it's all social/service level stuff |
| 19:02.03 | JeffM | worst case it tells you how to build :) |
| 19:02.08 | blast007 | yep :) |
| 19:02.18 | JeffM | and that may be a benifit for some people, gets them into the code |
| 19:04.35 | JeffM | be cool if that system also provided list server style match making for projects |
| 19:04.40 | JeffM | as well as authentication |
| 19:05.54 | JeffM | like steam for FOSS :) |
| 19:07.19 | blast007 | not sure how that's work |
| 19:07.22 | blast007 | that'd* |
| 19:07.58 | JeffM | you provide an API :) |
| 19:08.49 | blast007 | well, yeah, but I mean how the API would work for that |
| 19:09.01 | JeffM | it'd take some design, but I can envision one |
| 19:09.22 | JeffM | keys, identifyers and custom data blobs |
| 19:10.56 | blast007 | would they still have their own list/auth and your API would let their list/auth tie into the open-steam's users? |
| 19:11.02 | JeffM | make each game take some kind of token as a startup arg, so you only auth via the launcher app, then the actual game authenticats with the token so services know what user it's attached to |
| 19:11.13 | JeffM | I'd provide a replacment list/auth for them |
| 19:11.29 | JeffM | basicly say "we will do it all for you" |
| 19:11.34 | blast007 | so in the case of BZFlag, you'd be splitting the playerbase in two potentially? |
| 19:11.49 | JeffM | it woudl be best if the game made that the only auth system |
| 19:11.54 | JeffM | but yes that could be an issue |
| 19:12.01 | blast007 | I see that less likely to happen |
| 19:12.17 | blast007 | GOG Galaxy lets you play with Steam users, afaik |
| 19:12.38 | JeffM | sure thern there should be some way to merge lists |
| 19:12.48 | JeffM | maybe then split litsing and auth |
| 19:12.55 | JeffM | make the lists public |
| 19:13.01 | JeffM | then the game could merge them |
| 19:13.20 | JeffM | and prefix or postfix all opensteam IDs |
| 19:13.33 | JeffM | so they can contact the correct validator |
| 19:15.48 | JeffM | that's all part of the design work that would be needed of course |
| 19:16.17 | JeffM | optimally you'd also be able to provide proejcts with forusm and stuff too |
| 19:16.22 | JeffM | maybe for a small hosting fee |
| 19:17.10 | JeffM | leave them to just the game development not the community stuff |
| 19:17.15 | blast007 | mainly I'd not want the games to be dependent on the services provided by the open-steam |
| 19:17.46 | JeffM | sure, they should have some way of working indepdently |
| 19:17.47 | blast007 | it would not have the budget/engineering of Valve to keep it running under extreme loads or DDoS attacks |
| 19:17.55 | JeffM | true |
| 19:18.22 | blast007 | it wouldn't have the same level of attacks, but still :) |
| 19:18.25 | JeffM | the sample libraries shoudl thread all the access so it could fail cleanly |
| 19:18.40 | JeffM | yeah it's good to design with that in mind |
| 19:19.59 | JeffM | there would defenatly be challenges but I think they are all sumountable |
| 19:20.22 | JeffM | Just call it HotWater, it's not quite steam |
| 19:20.28 | blast007 | hehehe |
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