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| 21:26.21 | Patlabor221 | we are up to over 50 responcese to the survey :) |
| 21:26.53 | Patlabor221 | still holding pretty steady at 55% windows, 28% OSX and 17% linux |
| 21:27.02 | Patlabor221 | poor linux |
| 21:27.24 | Patlabor221 | and still only 2 people run crap hardware :) |
| 21:27.49 | zlsa | well I'm not sure where the line between 'crap hardware' and 'old hardware' lies so I put myself down as 'old' |
| 21:27.57 | zlsa | I can't enable lighting |
| 21:27.59 | zlsa | or shadows |
| 21:28.06 | Patlabor221 | then yeah that's crap hardware :) |
| 21:28.09 | zlsa | and I can't play on quickshot easily because FPS is < 20 |
| 21:28.13 | zlsa | okay, then 3 :P |
| 21:28.31 | Patlabor221 | not if you already marked yourself as the old one |
| 21:28.37 | Patlabor221 | buy a new computer :) |
| 21:28.46 | zlsa | I'm planning to |
| 21:28.58 | zlsa | this is basically a glorified netbook |
| 21:29.08 | Patlabor221 | there is overwhelming support for registration, only 3 people would not accept it |
| 21:29.52 | zlsa | I was one of them |
| 21:30.11 | zlsa | I don't want to be forced to register to demo a game |
| 21:30.19 | Patlabor221 | mainly the question is do we move to something like GL3 |
| 21:31.24 | Patlabor221 | I would do it one of 2 ways, allow unregistered local play (solves the lan issue), or limit unregistered play to one "intro" server and local play |
| 21:31.44 | zlsa | what is GL3? |
| 21:31.44 | Patlabor221 | There should be a way to play anon, but you would be limited in where you could go |
| 21:31.52 | Patlabor221 | Open GL 3.0 |
| 21:32.03 | zlsa | oh, does bzflag still use glVertex3f()? |
| 21:32.14 | Patlabor221 | it'd give us GLSL shaders |
| 21:32.26 | Patlabor221 | yup |
| 21:32.30 | zlsa | GLSL is incredible |
| 21:32.35 | Patlabor221 | bzflag uses OpenGL 1.1 |
| 21:32.37 | zlsa | can't you at least use displaylists? |
| 21:32.45 | Patlabor221 | it used to use GL 1.0 |
| 21:32.56 | zlsa | well my computer supports OpenGL 4.4 |
| 21:32.58 | Patlabor221 | lists are used for some things |
| 21:33.07 | Patlabor221 | yeah but how well does it support 4.4? |
| 21:33.12 | Patlabor221 | intel HD? |
| 21:33.13 | zlsa | not too well... |
| 21:33.22 | zlsa | ATI 6310 |
| 21:33.29 | Patlabor221 | not too bad |
| 21:33.37 | Patlabor221 | then you don't have old hardware |
| 21:33.43 | zlsa | yeah, but it's slow as heck |
| 21:33.59 | Patlabor221 | sure it's not made for playing games, that's your problem not mine :) |
| 21:34.14 | zlsa | glxgears at default window size: 200fps |
| 21:34.33 | zlsa | but once you use GlSL framerate drops like a rock |
| 21:34.34 | Patlabor221 | the old OSX machines are mainly the issue, Apple skipped GL3 IIRC |
| 21:35.03 | Patlabor221 | mostly I just wanted to see if my inituition was corrent |
| 21:35.07 | Patlabor221 | and it is for the most part |
| 21:35.51 | Patlabor221 | people don't like lag, it's not "well lag is part of bzflag, it's a game feature" BS that some try to push here :) |
| 21:36.05 | zlsa | lag isn't good |
| 21:36.12 | zlsa | you should _not_ have to shoot in front of tanks |
| 21:36.24 | Patlabor221 | lag was checked by 57% cheaters were checked by 49% |
| 21:36.31 | Patlabor221 | both of those are addressed by server side state |
| 21:36.45 | zlsa | where client says "i'm here" and the server tells everyone "he's here"? |
| 21:36.57 | zlsa | currently almost everything is client-side, right? |
| 21:37.01 | Patlabor221 | yeah, there an expecation about what an internet game is supposed to do, and bzflag doesn't do it |
| 21:37.07 | Patlabor221 | not just almost, EVERYTHING is |
| 21:37.17 | Patlabor221 | the server is just a message relay |
| 21:37.23 | Patlabor221 | and it computes spawns |
| 21:37.26 | Patlabor221 | that's about it |
| 21:37.40 | Patlabor221 | oh and flag pickups now |
| 21:37.43 | Patlabor221 | that was recently moved |
| 21:38.15 | zlsa | well that should be a BZFlag 3.0 target then, unfortunately |
| 21:38.20 | zlsa | is it? |
| 21:38.23 | Patlabor221 | won't happen |
| 21:38.29 | Patlabor221 | it's always been a target |
| 21:38.39 | Patlabor221 | it's too big of a proejct for one person |
| 21:38.42 | Patlabor221 | so it won't happen |
| 21:38.42 | zlsa | also, is there anything wrong with releasing 2.4.3? it seems to be perfectly stable for me |
| 21:38.56 | Patlabor221 | other then the fact that we never release odd numbers, nope |
| 21:39.01 | zlsa | well it'd be 2.4.4 then |
| 21:39.02 | Patlabor221 | it just would not have any real features for players |
| 21:39.03 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 21:39.11 | Patlabor221 | most of the fixes are server side |
| 21:39.17 | Patlabor221 | and the servers have already updated |
| 21:39.39 | zlsa | how are you involved in BZFlag? |
| 21:39.47 | WarPig | I've been using 2.4.3 for a long while now. Really nice and stable for me under Windows7 64bit |
| 21:40.02 | Patlabor221 | I am a project manager and techincaly the developer who has worked on it the longest :) |
| 21:40.07 | zlsa | nice |
| 21:40.12 | zlsa | I only found it a year or two ago |
| 21:40.17 | Patlabor221 | WarPig, yeah but what does it buy you over 2.4.2? |
| 21:40.29 | Patlabor221 | what reason is there to upgrade? |
| 21:40.40 | zlsa | um, I'm not even sure there's anything visible beyond exploding tanks in the radar view |
| 21:40.46 | zlsa | * any visible changes |
| 21:40.55 | Patlabor221 | yeah that's why there hasn't been a push for it |
| 21:40.58 | WarPig | Not sure. I was having some problem that blast007 said 2.4.3 might fix. Can't remember what it was though. |
| 21:41.27 | zlsa | would that be the teleport bug? |
| 21:41.55 | alezakos | there have been just a few changes to the client apart from the tanks, including a reverse scoreboard, probably not crashing on bad config files, automatically pausing the console when scrolling, no annoying "GAME OVER" message for observers, self-kills on the scoreboard etc. |
| 21:42.31 | Patlabor221 | then get someone to do a test OSX build and we can look into it |
| 21:42.34 | WarPig | I think I'm gonna go back to 2.4.2 just because players have accused me of having an 'enhanced' client when I pwn them too much. |
| 21:42.55 | zlsa | same here |
| 21:43.18 | Patlabor221 | get a set of beta packages made and we can publish those and if it's good tag and bump |
| 21:43.23 | gnu-sense | "upgrade your client to improve your score" |
| 21:43.29 | WarPig | lol |
| 21:43.48 | alezakos | I also have a patch that makes the shots stats page (the one that shows up when you press 'Home') show stats for all flags (now it only shows 5 or so), but it uses 2 std::maps for every players and I'm not sure if I want to push it |
| 21:44.01 | zlsa | commit: if(shooter == me) { score *= 2; } |
| 21:44.14 | Patlabor221 | what's wrong with maps? |
| 21:44.18 | Patlabor221 | maps are awesome |
| 21:44.36 | alezakos | ah, well then |
| 21:44.45 | zlsa | I'm just starting to work with C again |
| 21:44.46 | gnu-sense | oh, zlsa. won't work for negative scores |
| 21:44.47 | Patlabor221 | are you worried about ram or lookup time? |
| 21:44.59 | alezakos | I was mainly concerned about performance, since they are being inserted into whenever a shot is fired |
| 21:45.00 | zlsa | and I've learned that computers now are incredibly fast |
| 21:45.13 | Patlabor221 | alezakos, so not very often |
| 21:45.23 | Patlabor221 | not several hundred times a second |
| 21:45.31 | zlsa | re: 'enhanced' client, just report as 2.4.2 :P |
| 21:45.36 | Patlabor221 | it's a binary insert, it's as fast as it's going to get |
| 21:45.38 | Patlabor221 | that's fine |
| 21:45.57 | alezakos | ah, okay then |
| 21:46.05 | Patlabor221 | what's the key? an int? |
| 21:46.18 | alezakos | a pointer to a flag type, anything wrong with that? |
| 21:46.35 | Patlabor221 | oh a pointer? |
| 21:46.41 | Patlabor221 | that is a little odd |
| 21:46.58 | alezakos | yeah, that was another concern for me |
| 21:47.14 | Patlabor221 | it's probalby ok, you are just using the map for unique |
| 21:47.18 | Patlabor221 | sort doesn't matter |
| 21:47.30 | alezakos | yup |
| 21:47.38 | Patlabor221 | really flagType should be an enum, not a short string, so that'd have the same find speed |
| 21:47.41 | Patlabor221 | it's just odd |
| 21:47.44 | alezakos | and I've tested it a lot, haven't encountered any issues |
| 21:47.53 | Patlabor221 | put a note that says "make flag type an ENUM and this won't look like ass" |
| 21:48.08 | Patlabor221 | but that's fine |
| 21:48.22 | WarPig | Looks like blast007's DNS is screwed up again. |
| 21:48.25 | Patlabor221 | the key will go in as a size_t |
| 21:48.32 | Patlabor221 | and that's acceptable |
| 21:48.46 | Patlabor221 | and it's not like you are keeping them around across sessions |
| 21:49.36 | Patlabor221 | but shots happen in a timeframe of shots per minute not tens or hundreds of shots per frame |
| 21:49.51 | Patlabor221 | and your map is very small |
| 21:49.57 | Patlabor221 | so the insert sort will be fast |
| 21:50.06 | Patlabor221 | REALY what you'd probalby want to use a hashmap |
| 21:50.10 | Patlabor221 | that'd be a little faster |
| 21:50.14 | Patlabor221 | but it doesn't matter |
| 21:51.54 | Patlabor221 | so I say push the change, I don't see anything inherently wrong with your use of maps |
| 21:52.04 | alezakos | ok then, I'll try to find some time and commit it |
| 21:52.17 | Patlabor221 | if you had made the key be a string, and did finds/inserts many times per frame that'd be slow :) |
| 21:52.33 | Patlabor221 | but if the key goes down to an int compare, that's really fast |
| 22:00.56 | alezakos | hm |
| 22:01.10 | alezakos | if we made FlagTypes an enum, how would custom flags be handled? |
| 22:02.14 | gnu-sense | unassigned numbers could be one way |
| 22:02.26 | Patlabor221 | one of the enum types would be OTHER |
| 22:02.33 | Patlabor221 | but yeah there are ways |
| 22:02.38 | Patlabor221 | they'd basicly turn into IDs |
| 22:02.47 | Patlabor221 | if the number was > then LAST_FLAG_ID |
| 22:02.50 | Patlabor221 | or something like that |
| 22:03.18 | Patlabor221 | really each flag should just be given a runtime GUID |
| 22:03.26 | Patlabor221 | all flags would be "custom" |
| 22:03.35 | gnu-sense | ^ yes that. |
| 22:03.51 | Patlabor221 | a flag is just a structure with name, description, and some list of effects it implements |
| 22:04.05 | Patlabor221 | I'd even make it more generic then "flag" |
| 22:04.09 | Patlabor221 | "think you can pick up" |
| 22:04.24 | Patlabor221 | and tell the client what kinda of graphic to use for it (from a predefined list) |
| 22:04.32 | gnu-sense | or drop |
| 22:04.47 | Patlabor221 | well the ability to drop it would be a property of the item :) |
| 22:04.51 | Patlabor221 | not all items can be caried |
| 22:04.56 | gnu-sense | right. that gets into effects |
| 22:05.04 | Patlabor221 | then you can make an "Ammo box" that reloads your limited GM |
| 22:05.07 | Patlabor221 | you never drop it |
| 22:05.10 | Patlabor221 | it's consumed on use |
| 22:05.19 | Patlabor221 | but you still pick it up |
| 22:05.31 | gnu-sense | or pick up ammo. |
| 22:05.34 | Patlabor221 | it's really "think the server has to track for tank collisions" |
| 22:06.53 | gnu-sense | thinks about team flags a bit |
| 22:06.59 | gnu-sense | I guess that's right |
| 22:07.18 | Patlabor221 | yeah they all have some set of those properties |
| 22:07.30 | Patlabor221 | "team" is just an attribute |
| 22:07.44 | gnu-sense | the player acquires special properties on grab, like being able to cap |
| 22:07.53 | gnu-sense | but that's the player |
| 22:07.54 | Patlabor221 | yeah again, properties |
| 22:08.03 | Patlabor221 | the flag grants those effects |
| 22:08.22 | Patlabor221 | I'd make each team be a seperate property in the bitmask |
| 22:08.30 | Patlabor221 | then you can make a single flag and cap it at any base :) |
| 22:08.37 | gnu-sense | nice idea |
| 22:08.44 | Patlabor221 | then you've got a real fight on your hands |
| 22:08.59 | gnu-sense | or some flags are for more than one team |
| 22:09.04 | Patlabor221 | sure |
| 22:09.10 | gnu-sense | could get you different game modes |
| 22:09.15 | Patlabor221 | it moves the logic of that to the server, not the client |
| 22:09.26 | Patlabor221 | the client just does what the properties say |
| 22:09.45 | Patlabor221 | then you use plugins to define the flag/property combos you want for your game mode |
| 22:10.15 | Patlabor221 | and you have flag factories :) |
| 22:10.25 | gnu-sense | you could have recipes. and minecraft. sort of. |
| 22:10.36 | Patlabor221 | I would not let users create flags |
| 22:10.41 | Patlabor221 | that is a bad design choice |
| 22:10.49 | Patlabor221 | EVEYRONE will make CL+ST |
| 22:10.54 | Patlabor221 | then your game isn't fun anymore |
| 22:11.11 | gnu-sense | yeah, let's hope we learned from geno |
| 22:11.29 | Patlabor221 | ooo that's what I can do for 2.4.4, remove geno :) |
| 22:11.38 | gnu-sense | I was thinking that would apply to other custom flags |
| 22:12.16 | gnu-sense | pick up a rock flag and two paper flags, and when you drop it you get... idk somethign |
| 22:12.36 | Patlabor221 | you could implement that in a plug-in |
| 22:12.40 | gnu-sense | right |
| 22:42.50 | *** join/#bzflag Not-311d (~notifico@198.199.82.216) |
| 22:42.50 | Not-311d | [02bzflag-import-3] 07kongr45gpen pushed 031 commit to 03v2_4_x [+0/-0/±3] 13http://git.io/_U-0hg |
| 22:42.51 | Not-311d | [02bzflag-import-3] 07kongr45gpen 0396ef054 - Make shot stats track all the flags in-game, even custom ones |
| 23:00.23 | *** join/#bzflag catt (49ac7320@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.115.32) |
| 23:00.51 | catt | hello? |
| 23:01.44 | catt | I'm trying to get into mofo's server but it won't let me in |
| 23:02.32 | catt | I'm not banned. And the server has people playing on it.. |
| 23:03.12 | catt | Can anyone help me please? |
| 23:06.17 | brad | "unknown host planet-mofo.com" |
| 23:06.25 | brad | I guess they are having DNS issues too |
| 23:06.27 | catt | hi brad |
| 23:06.29 | brad | hiya |
| 23:07.25 | catt | yeah, after awhile it will say "server not found" |
| 23:07.28 | brad | you might try joining by IP if you're desperate to play there |
| 23:07.45 | brad | 65.111.168.214 port 4202 |
| 23:07.56 | catt | joining by IP? how do I do that? |
| 23:08.03 | catt | oh okay. ty |
| 23:08.25 | catt | brb |
| 23:10.18 | catt | omg it worked |
| 23:10.32 | catt | THANK YOU BRAD |
| 23:10.37 | catt | =D |
| 23:10.40 | brad | yw |
| 23:11.29 | *** part/#bzflag catt (49ac7320@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.172.115.32) |
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