| 00:51.42 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (~thomas@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
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| 02:00.36 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (~JeffM@cpe-23-240-144-5.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 02:42.02 | JeffM | welll time to find a new VPS |
| 02:45.06 | rob1n | what were you using? |
| 02:45.15 | JeffM | burst.net |
| 03:02.36 | TD-Linux | I've had my fill of terrible VPSes |
| 03:02.49 | TD-Linux | I use digitalocean now and it's so much better |
| 03:04.16 | JeffM | I just need to remember how to dump all databases in mysql :) |
| 03:08.59 | tw1sted | +1 for digitalocean |
| 03:10.43 | JeffM | I am pondering vps.net |
| 03:10.49 | JeffM | my work has used them a lot |
| 03:14.28 | JeffM | but digital ocean looks decent too |
| 03:14.46 | JeffM | what is 1 "Core" of CPU? |
| 03:15.11 | Flash | I would think it's what it sounds like |
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| 03:15.49 | TD-Linux | JeffM, one virtual core exposed to your vps |
| 03:16.00 | JeffM | that is not any real info |
| 03:16.10 | JeffM | how many cycles/sec is that virtual core |
| 03:16.23 | TD-Linux | JeffM, digitalocean uses KVM for virtualization so it's hardware level. you don't know what CPU it is and it could actually change |
| 03:16.32 | JeffM | ahh |
| 03:16.33 | TD-Linux | mine claims 2.3GHz |
| 03:16.54 | JeffM | can you add cores with out rebuilding the VPS? |
| 03:16.56 | TD-Linux | it's really fast and they don't overcommit though, like a lot of vps providers do (especially openvz based ones) |
| 03:17.33 | TD-Linux | JeffM, yes, but 1 minute downtime |
| 03:17.35 | JeffM | linode has a similar deal |
| 03:17.47 | TD-Linux | yeah they are also very good and also use kvm |
| 03:18.56 | TD-Linux | their cost dropped 3x from when I signed up for digitalocean. |
| 03:19.49 | TD-Linux | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:19.56 | TD-Linux | really taxing that 1 virtual CPU... |
| 03:25.35 | JeffM | heh both are a "Free account" assuming you give them some money after you make the account |
| 03:25.49 | JeffM | virutal wallet crap makes me angry |
| 03:29.03 | tw1sted | digitalocean has a bunch of $10 credit promos floating around |
| 03:29.15 | tw1sted | i was able to find like 3 or 4 at one point and got a couple free months |
| 03:34.38 | JeffM | still have to preload with 5$ if you use paypal |
| 03:37.54 | JeffM | yeah the credit only works AFTER you pay some real money. You have to have the real money for the first month |
| 03:40.48 | tw1sted | ah they must have changed that since i joined. they used to give you $5 or $10 credit to join back when they were smaller |
| 03:41.26 | JeffM | probalby too many people just rejoining |
| 03:45.49 | TD-Linux | I've forgotten to pay for a month or two and nothing happened. |
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| 03:59.31 | JeffM | now I have to remember how to set everything up again |
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| 06:34.53 | TD--Linux | bzflag's physics engine is the pickiest little bugger I |
| 06:34.56 | TD--Linux | 've ever seen |
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| 12:20.24 | blast007 | TD-Linux: as a bonus, it also behaves differently on different platforms and architectures and compiler optimization levels! |
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| 17:23.37 | BulletCatcher | Quol, please ask here if you have any questions about upgrading your server. |
| 17:23.44 | BulletCatcher | IIRC, there was a previous discussion where you were misinformed about compiler version requirements (gcc 4.3 and newer ought to work with BZFlag 2.4.3). |
| 17:26.21 | JeffM | still grumbles about the lack of nullptr |
| 17:26.39 | BulletCatcher | gcc 4.4, which was first released in April 2009, supports c++0x and not c++11. I think we should keep 2.4.x compatible with c++0x, but am willing to accept the consequences of requiring c++11 support for 2.5.x code if it will make a meaningful difference. |
| 17:27.01 | JeffM | what one has std::thread? |
| 17:29.04 | BulletCatcher | gcc 4.4 seems to support std::thread. I don't know about 4.3. |
| 17:30.06 | JeffM | and I don't think saying "C++0x" is not a very strong standard, there are varrying levels of support for it throughout GCC and other compilers. I belive C++0x has nullptr in it's standards but that wasn't implemented in gcc untill the standard was called c++11 |
| 17:30.43 | JeffM | I'd just pick a gcc to support in 2.4.x and we can get the feature list from that |
| 17:30.55 | JeffM | say VC10 and GCC4.3 |
| 17:31.06 | JeffM | whatever is common between those we can use |
| 17:31.28 | JeffM | our mac build is on LLVM now and it's well past what those 2 support |
| 17:32.27 | JeffM | with the removal of the nullptr, the only thing left should be std::function and std::shared_ptr in the 2.4.x branch |
| 17:32.40 | JeffM | maybe an auto or 2 |
| 17:33.08 | BulletCatcher | Yes, and AFAIK there are no problems with support for those features. |
| 17:34.05 | JeffM | if I can get my networking stuff going for 2.5, that uses a lot of nullptr, std::thread, std::mutex, and things that will proalby need gcc4.6 |
| 17:34.21 | JeffM | it also requires VC12 |
| 17:40.45 | BulletCatcher | CentOS 6 has gcc 4.4, but it is an LTS release (already quite old) with several more years of support remaining. |
| 17:40.48 | BulletCatcher | I doubt it is popular with our players and server operators, so I am not too concerned about leaving it behind in 2.5. |
| 17:41.55 | BulletCatcher | I haven't done a survey to be sure, but I suspect than most distros released within the last couple of years have a gcc with adequate c++11 support. |
| 17:42.18 | JeffM | I'd think so too |
| 17:42.36 | BulletCatcher | If they don't, they can compile and use a new gcc. :-) |
| 17:42.43 | JeffM | or llvm :) |
| 17:42.58 | BulletCatcher | Sure. |
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| 17:47.19 | blast007 | JeffM: clang/llvm may not be any further ahead on platforms lacking gcc 4.6 |
| 17:47.45 | JeffM | yeah and I think 4.6 is far enough for what we need :) |
| 17:47.54 | JeffM | it's further then 4.3 |
| 17:48.26 | JeffM | but yeah it may not go further if apple focuses on swift |
| 17:48.35 | blast007 | for instance, on Debian Squeeze, both clang (2.7) and gcc (4.4.5) lack nullptr |
| 17:48.43 | JeffM | really? |
| 17:48.45 | JeffM | wtf? |
| 17:48.54 | blast007 | clang implemented it in version 3.0 |
| 17:48.55 | JeffM | nullptr is like SUPER easy to implement |
| 17:49.13 | JeffM | le-sigh |
| 17:49.20 | blast007 | easy, but not interesting ;) open-source geeks thrive on "interesting" |
| 17:49.36 | JeffM | type safety is awesome! |
| 17:49.43 | JeffM | and I don't buy that, they did AND |
| 17:49.49 | JeffM | how is AND in C++ interesting? |
| 17:50.29 | JeffM | and debian LOVES to force people to do thing the "right way" ;) |
| 17:50.29 | blast007 | someone just got sick of having to press shift to get those silly symbols |
| 17:50.57 | JeffM | IIRC AND has to be caps :) |
| 17:51.07 | blast007 | caps lock! |
| 17:51.23 | JeffM | probalby not, if isn't caps |
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| 17:51.35 | blast007 | auto-correct! |
| 17:51.50 | JeffM | no you have to be able to do ALL development work with sed |
| 17:51.58 | JeffM | that's a gcc requirement right? |
| 17:52.16 | JeffM | or magnets |
| 17:52.18 | JeffM | you can use magnets |
| 17:52.41 | blast007 | real programmers use butterflies |
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| 17:53.07 | JeffM | I use the math of the universe to cause a disk to be manufactured with my pogram alaready on it |
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| 17:53.25 | JeffM | all programs have already been writen |
| 17:53.37 | JeffM | they are just compiling in the manufacturing process |
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| 17:53.41 | JeffM | it's kinda slow |
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| 17:54.45 | blast007 | there's been talk of Debian Squeeze becoming an LTS version, but it depends if we care ;) |
| 17:54.58 | blast007 | we could require Wheezy+ for 2.6 |
| 17:55.04 | JeffM | they don't make it easy for us to update |
| 17:55.14 | JeffM | at least as part of the package |
| 17:55.29 | JeffM | 2.6 is not a security update so it could not go back to that version anyway |
| 17:55.43 | blast007 | well, backports |
| 17:56.07 | JeffM | how many people does that pick up? |
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| 17:58.41 | blast007 | no idea |
| 17:58.53 | blast007 | I don't think we've yet had a version in backports |
| 17:59.15 | JeffM | so then our game effeticly only "ships" with the current release of debian |
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| 18:00.21 | JeffM | Paul__, wtf? |
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| 18:29.59 | TD-Linux | blast007, it seems that flat surfaces to drive on have to be *completely* flat |
| 18:30.09 | blast007 | yeah |
| 18:30.10 | TD-Linux | as in, the floats have to be bit exact |
| 18:30.55 | TD-Linux | I'll see if I can add snapping to my exporter. but I might also look at fixing that |
| 18:31.40 | TD-Linux | though my first though at looking through obstacle/ was "I wonder if I can rip this out and replace it with bullet" |
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| 19:29.35 | JeffM | TD-Linux, you can't fix it in 2.4.x |
| 19:30.00 | JeffM | you may want to look at how 2.99 did it, it converted everything to a mesh then used the same obstacle code |
| 19:32.05 | blast007 | iirc, there was also some changes to the "drive up bumps" code there, but I can't recall if that was reverted.. |
| 19:32.37 | JeffM | I think we did a few things but not all of them |
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| 21:49.55 | brad | ~bzgit |
| 21:49.55 | infobot | i guess bzgit is git clone --branch v2_4_x https://github.com/BZFlag-Dev/bzflag-import-3.git bzflag |
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