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| 01:06.55 | banana_ | If any @ for the easy tank server are active could you please PM me |
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| 20:09.03 | JeffM | aww blast007 did you prevent the kiddo from uploading? :) |
| 20:15.12 | blast007 | nope |
| 20:16.04 | blast007 | seems he's using a proxy because he's banned from the forums ;) |
| 20:19.45 | JeffM | AHHHH |
| 20:20.47 | JeffM | probably not going to work out the way he expected then |
| 20:21.22 | JeffM | he had the smell of someone who was hiding something |
| 20:25.12 | blast007 | formerly known as FangUp |
| 20:26.02 | JeffM | him? |
| 20:26.05 | JeffM | geez |
| 20:27.33 | JeffM | going to yank him again/ |
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| 20:34.44 | blast007 | prolly |
| 20:35.05 | JeffM | cool |
| 20:35.33 | blast007 | that attitude was one of the reasons he was banned before :p |
| 20:36.43 | JeffM | indeed |
| 20:36.56 | JeffM | some people never learn |
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| 21:35.04 | allejo | I haven't tested but for bz_RegisterCustomFlag(), if you set it to eNoShot, would that actually disable shots for the tank or would it just shoot regular bullets? i'm assuming the latter |
| 21:41.00 | JeffM | I belive you are correct |
| 21:42.36 | JeffM | read the comment above shot type |
| 21:42.41 | JeffM | / no ShotType support in 2.4 (yet?). still accept the ShotType parameter for compatibility. |
| 21:42.45 | JeffM | that argument is unused |
| 21:43.20 | JeffM | so all custom flags shoot normal shots |
| 21:43.41 | JeffM | where did you see reference to eNoShot? the wiki? |
| 21:43.47 | allejo | yea the wiki |
| 21:43.54 | JeffM | then that wiki data is for 2.99 |
| 21:44.10 | JeffM | the backport to 2.4 did not include shot types |
| 21:44.52 | allejo | ah boo :-/ |
| 21:45.14 | JeffM | there were a lot of changes for shot type |
| 21:45.23 | allejo | what's SpecialShot? the enum of ShotType has it |
| 21:45.25 | JeffM | so it would have been a tricky backport |
| 21:45.43 | allejo | meh, understandable |
| 21:46.05 | JeffM | you'd have to look at what the client does with it in the 2.99 branch |
| 21:49.14 | Notify | 03BZFlag:Allejo * 8813 /Bz_eShotType: added 2.99 |
| 21:49.37 | allejo | woo so something else for a protobreak :x |
| 21:49.55 | JeffM | probably do it different this time |
| 21:50.17 | JeffM | not attach shots to flags |
| 21:50.20 | JeffM | attach shots to tanks |
| 21:50.31 | JeffM | then it's just the flag that tells the server to change a player's shot type |
| 21:51.06 | JeffM | and have the other flag effects be tank attributes |
| 21:51.25 | JeffM | then the client doesn't know what a flag does |
| 21:52.23 | allejo | wouldn't that make cheating easier or would the tanks just listen to what the server tells it to do? |
| 21:52.34 | JeffM | it'd make cheating harder |
| 21:52.44 | JeffM | the tanks would have to listen to what the server says |
| 21:52.53 | JeffM | and the server knows who's supposed to be doing what |
| 21:53.11 | JeffM | there would be no logic of what to do on the client |
| 21:53.16 | allejo | ahhhh so my second thought was correct |
| 21:53.21 | allejo | that'd be pretty cool |
| 21:53.25 | JeffM | so the server can then assume that all logic choices it made are the only choices :) |
| 21:53.28 | JeffM | it would |
| 21:53.38 | JeffM | that's the general way we should move features to make the server better |
| 21:53.43 | JeffM | client is dumb |
| 21:54.29 | allejo | just like the ID flag was moved server side for 2.4? |
| 21:54.36 | JeffM | yeah |
| 21:54.44 | JeffM | flags should just be arbitray objects |
| 21:54.53 | JeffM | that are just makred "pickupable" |
| 21:55.03 | JeffM | what happens when you pick one up should be up to the server |
| 21:56.24 | allejo | ohhh then the API would have more control :o |
| 21:56.32 | JeffM | indeed |
| 21:56.32 | allejo | blow up tanks on flag grab! |
| 21:56.39 | JeffM | you can do that now |
| 21:56.49 | JeffM | the granting of a flag was moved to the server as well |
| 21:57.01 | allejo | where it wasn't before? |
| 21:57.10 | JeffM | client |
| 21:57.19 | JeffM | client sent a "I want to pick this up" message |
| 21:57.45 | JeffM | now it just sends a lot of "I am here" messages when the tank is near a flag and the server decides when it runs over the flag |
| 21:58.10 | JeffM | so the act of giving a flag to a player is always started from the server |
| 21:58.28 | JeffM | the client just sends lots of updates when it thinks it should get a flag to minimize latency |
| 21:58.43 | JeffM | but you now HAVE to be on a flag, not just say that you picked it up |
| 21:59.49 | allejo | oh very nice |
| 22:02.47 | blast007 | of course, it's a bit of a moot point until player positions are validated ;) |
| 22:03.24 | JeffM | yeah that's the issue now, we don't make sure that you didn't jump to the flag |
| 22:03.35 | JeffM | but at least now everyone will SEE you jump to the flag |
| 22:03.44 | JeffM | before you could just pop any flag on the screen to you |
| 22:03.54 | JeffM | so it's slightly better, but not great |
| 22:05.23 | blast007 | I did see some (disabled by default) position validation code in the server |
| 22:05.38 | JeffM | yeah it had a lot of false positives |
| 22:05.49 | JeffM | the server needs better DR and timesync |
| 22:06.30 | blast007 | teleports are client side as well, right? |
| 22:06.34 | JeffM | sadly |
| 22:06.47 | blast007 | moving that to the server would make one aspect of validating position easier |
| 22:06.49 | JeffM | those are going to be the hard part |
| 22:07.01 | JeffM | yeah it's just not easy in our lag timeframe |
| 22:07.10 | JeffM | TPs are the hard part that makes us not like halflife |
| 22:07.27 | JeffM | that ability to flitter between a porter |
| 22:08.06 | blast007 | I believe there's teleporters in some source engine games |
| 22:08.13 | JeffM | there are |
| 22:08.17 | JeffM | most work on an event |
| 22:08.25 | JeffM | it's all solveable |
| 22:08.54 | JeffM | it's just the thing not covered in most papers on network simulations |
| 22:09.04 | blast007 | saw some Stargate based map on a Trouble in Terrorist Town session ;) |
| 22:09.23 | JeffM | most of those move the input to the server, then the server does the entire simulation and it can do anything |
| 22:09.34 | JeffM | but then that means you need lower lag |
| 22:09.38 | blast007 | yeah |
| 22:09.52 | blast007 | get above 100ms lag in some multiplayer games and it's almost unplayable |
| 22:10.06 | JeffM | if we made teleporters spit you out the otherside with some speed to make there be some time before you can reenter it'd be easer with higher lag |
| 22:10.19 | apeman2 | Tell me about it. 200 ms ping in bullet chess is horrible |
| 22:10.21 | JeffM | it's something you have to ballance |
| 22:10.43 | Flash | Hmmm. Physics models. Tank says "increase my velocity by x" (or simply "gas on"/"gas off") and the server computes each tank's location |
| 22:10.48 | JeffM | most of those games do scanhit weapons and that makes for needing lower lag |
| 22:11.01 | JeffM | Flash, that's what many games do |
| 22:11.04 | JeffM | "user hit forward" |
| 22:11.26 | blast007 | I was playing some online battle racing game like that.. was horrid :P |
| 22:11.42 | JeffM | it all depends how good your prediction code is |
| 22:11.46 | blast007 | "turn!" *half second later truck turns* |
| 22:12.10 | Flash | but then the lag would only penalize the poor connection, not all clients |
| 22:12.40 | JeffM | thats the main argument people use |
| 22:12.40 | blast007 | that is how I think it should be designed.. punished the laggers |
| 22:13.00 | JeffM | if you can stay synced with the server your game is good, if you can't tough |
| 22:13.07 | JeffM | where right now a human can compensate for lag |
| 22:13.18 | JeffM | it's a crappy game expience in general but you CAN do it |
| 22:13.29 | JeffM | that aspect is one reason I think new players leave so fast |
| 22:13.34 | JeffM | they arn't expecting to have to do that |
| 22:13.49 | blast007 | maybe we should just file a petition to increase the speed of light.. that's probably a much better long term solution |
| 22:14.02 | JeffM | or just get everyone fiber connections |
| 22:14.38 | JeffM | no mater what, making the simulation techincaly 'better' will change how the gameplay feels to older players |
| 22:14.59 | JeffM | we just have to hope it isn't too different, or at least understandably different |
| 22:15.07 | blast007 | would be a good time to change the name then ;) |
| 22:15.12 | JeffM | sure |
| 22:15.22 | JeffM | AccurateFlag |
| 22:15.52 | JeffM | the unity framework I did behaves a lot more like a regular modern FPS, but it feels different then bzflag |
| 22:16.04 | JeffM | but I think it would still be fun |
| 22:16.11 | JeffM | had real physics on the rico :) |
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| 22:43.00 | blast007 | JeffM: I think he was uploading a file without an extension :P |
| 22:43.09 | JeffM | heh |
| 22:43.30 | blast007 | just did a test, and that's the only way it showed that exact error message.. otherwise it showed which extension it was as part of the error |
| 22:43.32 | JeffM | but he's a linux user and has GIMP, how dare you sugest he dosn't know what he's doing! |
| 22:43.57 | blast007 | and I doubt the proxy would mangle the filename it was uploading as |
| 22:43.58 | JeffM | or his proxy striped it |
| 22:44.14 | JeffM | it may not allow uploads so it may just strip them to nothin |
| 22:44.22 | blast007 | perhaps |
| 22:44.24 | JeffM | send an empty request |
| 22:44.40 | JeffM | that'd be the same to the server as no extension |
| 22:45.03 | blast007 | though in that case it wouldn't have any file to try to process and complain about |
| 22:45.18 | JeffM | depends on what error they check for first |
| 22:45.24 | JeffM | filename or no data |
| 22:45.48 | JeffM | it's something we can't replicate asy |
| 22:46.46 | JeffM | he really wants his pokemans! |
| 22:48.24 | blast007 | well maybe he can go play on his DS instead of flying off the handle on our forums |
| 22:48.56 | JeffM | that would probably be the best |
| 22:49.06 | blast007 | apparently the world "magically" equates to a "full scale attack". who knew! |
| 22:49.35 | JeffM | well it can get some of the more fundamentalist nutjob people in the world rilled up |
| 22:49.47 | JeffM | they don't like magic unless it's there brand of magic |
| 22:50.55 | JeffM | but that tells me he couldn't handle a full scale attack :) |
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