| 00:03.50 | spldart | ;_; |
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| 00:24.24 | kierra | i doubt its mofo's fault..... |
| 00:24.41 | kierra | wonders who sours JeffM's grapefruit |
| 00:25.15 | JeffM | kierra, no, they have been making plugins that are at the edge/ slightly outside of what we support |
| 00:25.19 | JeffM | and they are not stable |
| 00:25.29 | JeffM | sure we should fix all bugs that make the client crash |
| 00:25.34 | JeffM | but no software is bug free |
| 00:25.43 | kierra | at least they are doing some creative stuff |
| 00:25.46 | JeffM | sure |
| 00:25.52 | JeffM | but they should have tested it a bit more ;) |
| 00:26.13 | JeffM | there is little to no indication to the player that these are experimental or edge cases that may not work |
| 00:26.16 | kierra | hey, nothing like real game testing i guess |
| 00:26.24 | JeffM | that's how you get fired |
| 00:26.46 | JeffM | "meh, I figured I'd test the software after the pacemaker was implated" |
| 00:26.51 | I_Died_Once | Blame Moto Unit and Ziggurat |
| 00:26.54 | kierra | that only matters if you're getting paid |
| 00:27.11 | kierra | bzflag isnt life and death jeffm |
| 00:27.16 | JeffM | we still have a product even tho peopole arn't getting paid ;) |
| 00:27.23 | JeffM | oh it is death |
| 00:27.23 | kierra | now you sound like a politician |
| 00:27.29 | I_Died_Once | Moto Unit is who drove me to start the server to begin with... |
| 00:27.31 | JeffM | no just a software devleoper |
| 00:27.49 | JeffM | if you don't care about your product thats one thing, but then don't expect it to go anywhere or do anything |
| 00:27.52 | I_Died_Once | ...and Ziggurat for inspiring us to make a *fest right and proper |
| 00:28.13 | JeffM | if it was my server I'd run 2 of them, one that is flagged as experimental and ask people to test |
| 00:28.22 | JeffM | and one that has known stable things that have tested out ok |
| 00:28.31 | JeffM | people would love to be on the test server |
| 00:28.41 | JeffM | everyone loves to live on the edge |
| 00:28.43 | I_Died_Once | we'll do some of that this evening |
| 00:28.49 | JeffM | but they would have expectations |
| 00:28.57 | JeffM | cool, I think that will help you narrow it down |
| 00:29.30 | I_Died_Once | sometime we plan on removing all normal flags and doing a run with nothing but custom ones |
| 00:29.46 | JeffM | you need to do it in a controlled manner |
| 00:29.49 | JeffM | hence 2 servers |
| 00:29.55 | I_Died_Once | and switching out some of the custom flags in normal play as well |
| 00:29.58 | JeffM | then you have a control to compare to an experimental |
| 00:30.19 | JeffM | well at least we know that kierra has given up :) |
| 00:30.24 | I_Died_Once | well, no one can say that we're not working on it |
| 00:30.30 | I_Died_Once | or that we don't care |
| 00:30.35 | JeffM | nobody ever said those things |
| 00:30.38 | I_Died_Once | lots of both |
| 00:30.41 | I_Died_Once | in case they did |
| 00:30.43 | JeffM | indedd |
| 00:30.44 | kierra | excuse me? |
| 00:30.50 | kierra | gave up what? |
| 00:30.59 | JeffM | you don't want bzflag to look good or have people play it |
| 00:31.13 | JeffM | or you think it is less important, lets say that |
| 00:31.15 | kierra | where'd you get that idea |
| 00:31.19 | JeffM | your comments |
| 00:31.26 | kierra | where? |
| 00:31.30 | JeffM | just now |
| 00:31.34 | I_Died_Once | and that server was jam packed full before we put the MoFo name on it |
| 00:31.38 | kierra | oh geez, Jeff |
| 00:31.41 | JeffM | ;) |
| 00:32.02 | kierra | you're just always so negative, shooting ppl and ideas down |
| 00:32.06 | JeffM | yeah you are quite the popular one, so that's what concerns me, larger exposure |
| 00:32.15 | JeffM | not always |
| 00:32.21 | JeffM | just many ideas are not well thought out |
| 00:32.26 | JeffM | or not feasable |
| 00:32.42 | JeffM | some are good ideas but need to be fleshed out |
| 00:33.00 | kierra | perhaps....but at least its progress in a direction and not stagnation |
| 00:33.12 | JeffM | like I understand what mofo is trying to do with the custom flags, and I Wrote up info on how we can support them better |
| 00:33.33 | JeffM | It's a different kind of progress |
| 00:33.42 | JeffM | usualy our developent dosn't happen in public |
| 00:33.47 | JeffM | because development breaks things |
| 00:33.56 | JeffM | and people don't like broken things |
| 00:34.03 | JeffM | it gives them a bad impression |
| 00:34.20 | JeffM | so yeah movement is good, it just should not be haphazard |
| 00:34.31 | I_Died_Once | Jeff, I'm gonna shoot you an idea we had thats kinda gone moot, would love your thoughts on it |
| 00:34.33 | JeffM | hence why we have done so much to try and help them |
| 00:34.38 | JeffM | sure |
| 00:34.40 | kierra | ok, i see your point |
| 00:34.42 | I_Died_Once | completely unrelated |
| 00:35.11 | kierra | goes back to lurking |
| 00:35.18 | JeffM | kierra, getting a car to run is great but if it runs right into a bus of kids, it would have been better to spend more time making sure it was ready to drive ;) |
| 00:35.29 | JeffM | go for it I_Died_Once |
| 00:35.38 | I_Died_Once | I'll pm it to you |
| 00:35.42 | JeffM | I got 25 min before I have to go to school |
| 00:35.43 | I_Died_Once | as well as pastebin |
| 00:35.58 | kierra | an exagerated analogy :) |
| 00:36.17 | JeffM | true, I have found that many people need extreme points to see |
| 00:36.33 | JeffM | thankfuly we don't make pacemakers |
| 00:36.56 | JeffM | Just Tacos |
| 00:37.03 | kierra | is hungry |
| 00:37.04 | JeffM | assuming blast007 didn't use them all |
| 00:37.20 | blast007 | What do you mean we're out of tacos??? |
| 00:37.25 | JeffM | again |
| 00:37.37 | JeffM | it's the kids they go thru them so fast |
| 00:37.42 | kierra | some kinda channel you run here....no tacos |
| 00:37.47 | JeffM | yeah I know |
| 00:37.52 | kierra | goes to ##kierra |
| 00:37.56 | JeffM | tim used to bring tacos but that stoped a while ago |
| 00:41.11 | I_Died_Once | brings out a full tray of tacos |
| 00:41.26 | I_Died_Once | has Dorito Loco Taco's, real mexican style tacos |
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| 04:41.59 | allejo | no tacos?! |
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| 15:20.24 | alezakos | http://helit.org/bzfs_conf.html |
| 15:20.44 | alezakos | Sent the link to the wrong channel yesterday |
| 15:20.52 | alezakos | And wondered why nobody responded |
| 15:21.16 | blast007 | heh |
| 15:21.27 | blast007 | I still think it should die in a fire :P |
| 15:28.29 | blast007 | and as of r22552, bzfs_conf.html is no more |
| 15:31.25 | alezakos | !slap blast007 |
| 15:31.40 | alezakos | Okay... |
| 15:31.44 | alezakos | ~slap blast007 |
| 15:31.44 | ibot | ACTION slaps blast007, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 15:32.54 | blast007 | perhaps I'll create a proper version this weekend |
| 15:33.22 | blast007 | one that only supports a minimum feature set to get a quick private server running |
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| 17:17.21 | alezakos | What about now? http://helit.org/bzfs_conf.html |
| 17:18.41 | blast007 | still don't see the point of having the advanced options |
| 17:18.54 | blast007 | it's not like you can load your existing config back in to match changes later |
| 17:19.14 | blast007 | would someone really want to re-enter all the day when they make changes? |
| 17:19.16 | blast007 | date* |
| 17:19.20 | blast007 | data* gah |
| 17:20.41 | alezakos | Fine, I'll write a parser.... |
| 17:21.01 | blast007 | ... |
| 17:21.14 | blast007 | just wait a bit on that.. |
| 17:21.47 | blast007 | take a step back. What should the purpose of that generator be? |
| 17:22.31 | alezakos | Allow users to quickly generate a configuration file without having to read any doc pages. |
| 17:23.19 | blast007 | so then it should be for people who don't care about properly running a server, right? |
| 17:24.01 | alezakos | Or maybe those who generate a conf and edit it later |
| 17:24.08 | blast007 | if they're too lazy to read the concise documentation we provide, they can't be willing to put much effort into their server. |
| 17:24.51 | alezakos | So what? |
| 17:25.19 | alezakos | Is that a reason to remove an already developed tool> |
| 17:25.22 | alezakos | ?* |
| 17:25.34 | blast007 | yeah |
| 17:26.34 | blast007 | I'll replace it with one better suited to the task |
| 17:27.00 | alezakos | Yeah, but don't remove it *before* you make the other one... |
| 17:27.14 | blast007 | why not? |
| 17:27.42 | alezakos | If you want to remove something, delete the irc perl script which is supposed to send messages on a BZFlag server to an IRC server and does not function at all. |
| 17:28.00 | alezakos | Not a script that will not *possibly* be used |
| 17:30.01 | alezakos | And since bzfs_conf is not needed, why was it created in the first place? |
| 17:30.28 | alezakos | 1000 lines of code wasted |
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| 17:51.25 | blast007 | alezakos: now it works ;) |
| 17:53.22 | alezakos | ... |
| 17:53.28 | alezakos | well then |
| 17:57.46 | alezakos | I think that's the point where I should say good job |
| 17:58.29 | blast007 | dunno how *well* I fixed it, since I don't actually know Perl |
| 17:58.40 | blast007 | but it at least linked up now |
| 18:11.27 | JeffM | heh, you just pulled it blast007 ? |
| 18:11.46 | blast007 | the conf tool? yeah |
| 18:11.50 | JeffM | good |
| 18:11.57 | blast007 | I'll replace it with something better suited to the task |
| 18:12.12 | JeffM | something with an actual design I hope |
| 18:12.42 | blast007 | fewer options, links to documentation, input validation |
| 18:12.46 | JeffM | yeah |
| 18:13.09 | JeffM | why even make it a local HTML? why not just make it an online site that gets updated as needed |
| 18:13.17 | blast007 | yeah, that was my thought |
| 18:13.41 | JeffM | just don't have it have a place for server password and it'd be fine |
| 18:13.56 | blast007 | should I even bother with public options? |
| 18:14.05 | JeffM | probalby not |
| 18:14.24 | blast007 | I see it as a useful tool for throwing up a quick LAN server |
| 18:14.37 | JeffM | someone should be able to setup the system with all the game options they want using the tool then if they want to use it as a basis for making a plublic by editing it |
| 18:14.38 | blast007 | basically a less sucky version of 'Start Server' |
| 18:14.47 | JeffM | yeah |
| 18:15.16 | JeffM | give it an option to spit out a windows shortcut file with all the options :) |
| 18:15.18 | blast007 | alezakos added a basic/advanced toggle to the old one: http://helit.org/bzfs_conf.html |
| 18:15.22 | blast007 | heh |
| 18:15.56 | blast007 | dunno how I'd generate a .lnk though |
| 18:16.07 | JeffM | it's just a file |
| 18:16.14 | JeffM | probalby docs on it somewhere |
| 18:16.15 | blast007 | a binary file, afaik |
| 18:16.23 | JeffM | probably |
| 18:17.10 | blast007 | http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd871305.aspx |
| 18:17.17 | blast007 | I'd rather just give a batch file ;) |
| 18:17.31 | JeffM | that would work too |
| 18:19.44 | JeffM | did anyone call you a meanie for yanking code that someone was working on, saying you are killing bzflag with your negativity? |
| 18:20.32 | blast007 | sorta ;) |
| 18:21.36 | JeffM | figured |
| 18:21.57 | JeffM | cus letting everyone run wild has worked out so well in the past |
| 18:22.29 | blast007 | and then it was mentioned that 'bzirc.pl is broken, so why is that still in there?', so I fixed that |
| 18:22.44 | JeffM | bet they expected you to remove it ;) |
| 18:23.00 | blast007 | or expected me to just ignore it completely |
| 18:23.45 | blast007 | was just basic issues.. deprecated/removed constructors |
| 18:24.12 | blast007 | unlike the nightmare that was bzfs_conf.html ;) |
| 18:25.18 | JeffM | if someone wanted to realy help they could go catolage all the tools in misc, write up what they are intended to do and what they actualy do |
| 18:25.24 | JeffM | then we'd have a list of things that need fixes |
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| 18:35.14 | alezakos | You're all just mean people, you are removing code that someone is working on. Do you know something? You are killing bzflag with your negativity. |
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| 18:55.54 | JeffM | alezakos_away, you could always help blast spec out the site to make a better version ;) |
| 18:56.48 | blast007 | tacos and animated gifs |
| 18:56.57 | JeffM | all the way |
| 18:56.58 | blast007 | and some <blink> tags |
| 18:57.29 | JeffM | use this as a template, http://www.theworldsworstwebsiteever.com/ |
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| 19:07.10 | blast007 | wonder if there exists a poll-based SVN commit notification bot |
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| 19:11.51 | JeffM | what woudl it poll? |
| 19:12.03 | JeffM | use svn to get the log delta? |
| 19:20.34 | blast007 | well, we have no way to push at the moment.. unless maybe via email |
| 19:20.56 | blast007 | and yeah, it would pull from SVN periodically |
| 19:21.07 | JeffM | you would write one using svnsharp |
| 19:22.07 | JeffM | did the CIA reboot fail? |
| 19:22.14 | blast007 | they're still working on it |
| 19:22.19 | JeffM | ahh |
| 19:22.27 | JeffM | and we can't kgb into sourceforge? |
| 19:22.49 | blast007 | from what I can tell, kgb would require that sourceforge run it on their end |
| 19:23.18 | JeffM | is there any other vcs systems we could use that would support something better? |
| 19:23.36 | blast007 | github supports CIA.vc as well :P |
| 19:24.50 | JeffM | I'm not against moving it |
| 19:25.15 | blast007 | google code doesn't support pre-commit hooks like we use for checking mime types and svnprops |
| 19:25.29 | JeffM | whatever would BulletCatcher do then? |
| 19:25.33 | blast007 | (well, guess the mime type is an svnprop) |
| 19:25.43 | blast007 | wasn't it brlcad that set those up? |
| 19:26.05 | JeffM | it was but BulletCatcher makes sure they stay that way :) |
| 19:26.45 | blast007 | dunno what you mean exactly, but anyways.. |
| 19:27.08 | blast007 | moving to a different VCS would be a pain if we want to keep history |
| 19:27.20 | JeffM | true |
| 19:27.25 | JeffM | not that history is that important |
| 19:27.37 | blast007 | I think it is |
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| 19:28.05 | JeffM | its important to have access to it but I don't know if it has to be int he same thing we are working on, we just need to be able to answer historical questions |
| 19:28.15 | blast007 | true |
| 19:28.38 | JeffM | dump svn into our own read only one that we use for archive |
| 19:28.45 | JeffM | then move the current code into a new vcs |
| 19:28.52 | JeffM | but thats only if we want to keep working |
| 19:28.54 | JeffM | lunches |
| 19:28.55 | blast007 | I imagine SF has an option to turn off write access |
| 19:29.03 | JeffM | probalby |
| 19:29.40 | blast007 | (or just removing commit access for everyone) |
| 19:30.41 | blast007 | then again, there's little point to moving it to a new VCS if not development is going on |
| 19:30.50 | blast007 | s/not/no/ |
| 19:31.01 | blast007 | ah, yeah, you said that |
| 19:37.35 | blast007 | I'm just putting new things I write into BitBucket, so this new conf generator will be there |
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| 20:01.18 | BulletCatcher | The negativity from the absence of Subversion properties would kill BZFlag, you meanies. |
| 20:04.56 | blast007 | lol |
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| 20:08.02 | JeffM | the props are the only thinkg that holds the world together |
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