00:11.08 | khonkhortisan | ...and moving the comments around gives me a segfault. More for me to do! |
00:31.18 | khonkhortisan | ah, it decided to complain because it didn't have a "joinMenu = new JoinMenu;" |
00:33.14 | khonkhortisan | oh. escape makes the menu disappear instead of going back to main. |
00:34.58 | khonkhortisan | So I have to go through main and don't need the extra include |
00:41.25 | khonkhortisan | the "Error connecting to server." message gets uncentered if you press F1 (from a window or from fullscreen) (both svn and release) |
00:48.24 | CIA-106 | BZFlag: 03khonkhortisan * r22490 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/ (JoinMenu.cxx playing.cxx): |
00:48.24 | CIA-106 | BZFlag: Show Join Menu when connecting using an address supplied on the command |
00:48.24 | CIA-106 | BZFlag: line, in order to not miss connection error messages. |
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01:09.47 | khonkhortisan | it tells me it's an automatic connection without me even having to think about it |
01:26.06 | I_Died_Once | `1 |
01:26.25 | khonkhortisan | ? |
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02:35.24 | khonkhortisan | I thought I lost my config because I changed my hostname |
02:39.36 | khonkhortisan | where are favorite servers stored? |
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03:09.10 | khonkhortisanafk | I really have to fix my computer someday |
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15:34.47 | khonkhortisan | BZW Toolkit link broken http://wiki.bzflag.org/Blender |
15:57.01 | CIA-106 | BZFlag: 03A bullet gone crazy 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8314 10/BZtank: /* Admin Staff */ |
15:58.49 | CIA-106 | BZFlag: 03Khonkhortisan 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8315 10/BZW: link to bzw manpage |
16:01.15 | CIA-106 | BZFlag: 03A bullet gone crazy 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8316 10/BZtank: /* Admin Staff */ |
16:02.52 | CIA-106 | BZFlag: 03A bullet gone crazy 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8317 10/BZtank: /* Admin Staff */ |
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16:11.41 | CIA-106 | BZFlag: 03A bullet gone crazy 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8318 10/BZtank: /* Admin Staff */ |
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16:15.07 | CIA-106 | BZFlag: 03khonkhortisan * r22491 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/LocalPlayer.cxx: comment grammar |
16:28.37 | khonkhortisan | Is anyone against -noSelfKills? |
16:32.57 | I_Died_Once | would love it |
16:57.01 | khonkhortisan | I'm a ghost! That just doesn't look right. I hope it only gets used for training servers. |
17:00.43 | I_Died_Once | seriously would love a -neSelfKills option |
17:01.57 | khonkhortisan | I just have to check whether it causes a local collision warning as observer, and then ask someone whether I can commit it |
17:04.01 | khonkhortisan | I got the idea from here http://wiki.bzflag.org/Flag_ideas/Rejected#Safety_First_.28SF.29 |
17:05.14 | I_Died_Once | we were discussing it the other day for the upcoming rabbit hunt |
17:05.29 | khonkhortisan | good timing |
17:05.55 | I_Died_Once | as long as it doesnt require a new client |
17:06.08 | khonkhortisan | no older clients will just shoot themselves |
17:11.00 | khonkhortisan | you would need a new client to have it take effect, but it wouldn't be incompatible with the current client. |
17:13.04 | khonkhortisan | huh. it doesn't even attempt local collision testing with self kills. |
17:18.31 | JeffM | khonkhortisan, you can't implement that till the next progo break |
17:18.36 | khonkhortisan | aw |
17:18.46 | JeffM | we don't have clients that have different game behavor |
17:19.03 | khonkhortisan | okay |
17:19.37 | JeffM | specialy since we don't have bins on all platforms and we take so long to get some platforms done |
17:19.51 | khonkhortisan | Is there a special place I can put the patch to reserve its spot in the next break? |
17:20.05 | JeffM | patches go in the patch tracker |
17:20.07 | khonkhortisan | Or do I just have to stay alive until then? |
17:20.18 | JeffM | we have that development road map |
17:20.22 | JeffM | add it to 2.6 |
17:20.36 | JeffM | the code is trivial, you just need to keep the idea in the list |
17:23.32 | I_Died_Once | yay |
17:26.30 | JeffM | tho the likelyhood of a full versions update is super small |
17:26.57 | I_Died_Once | boo |
17:27.46 | JeffM | dude be realistic |
17:27.48 | I_Died_Once | if another protocal break is to come, i say look through some of the 2.99 stuff and incorporate some of the game mode api stuff |
17:27.59 | JeffM | no duh |
17:28.41 | JeffM | we took what we could from 2.99 for the timeframe of 2.4, you know that. why do you think we woudln't keep doing that in the future? |
17:28.58 | JeffM | and that was over a year ago |
17:29.10 | JeffM | we can't even get a debian package out in a YEAR |
17:30.21 | I_Died_Once | what if i dug up some "source to .deb" tutorials and did it for ya |
17:30.29 | I_Died_Once | package up 2..4 |
17:30.40 | JeffM | you really don't pay attention here do you? |
17:30.43 | JeffM | sure go for it |
17:30.53 | khonkhortisan | then there would be a debian package |
17:31.01 | I_Died_Once | i browse but i dont read it like gospel, no |
17:31.08 | JeffM | yeah, except that it's WAY more then just reading some tutorials |
17:31.21 | JeffM | but knock yourself out man |
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17:31.52 | JeffM | go ahead and ignore all the work others have done on it, or the debian games team. |
17:33.09 | CIA-106 | BZFlag: 03Khonkhortisan 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8320 10/Development_RoadMap: /* 2.6 (Next Breaking Release) */ -noSelfKills option |
17:33.15 | I_Died_Once | http://www.quietearth.us/articles/2006/08/16/Building-deb-package-from-source |
17:33.40 | JeffM | thanks, I_Died_Once that solves all our problems, you are our hero! |
17:33.51 | I_Died_Once | takes a bow |
17:34.01 | I_Died_Once | wuld like to thank the Nobel academy... |
17:34.25 | JeffM | you should forward that to the debian games team |
17:34.30 | JeffM | I'm sure that will help them out |
17:35.33 | JeffM | perhaps next you can solve our lag problems by sending us a link to a wikipedia article on tcp packets |
17:37.04 | I_Died_Once | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_Control_Protocol |
17:37.07 | khonkhortisan | NAT tunneling would be more helpful |
17:37.23 | JeffM | why so we can have MORE crappy servers on home conenctions? |
17:37.43 | JeffM | that will totaly make more people play |
17:37.51 | khonkhortisan | yeah you're right |
17:38.15 | JeffM | if anyone wants to keep this project from dying right now they need to be realistic |
17:38.27 | JeffM | you can't bet on wishes |
17:38.35 | JeffM | the open source fairy won't come save you |
17:38.40 | JeffM | he's in detroit |
17:39.05 | I_Died_Once | heh |
17:39.52 | JeffM | people just making statements and throwing out links/features is what got the project in the state it is in now |
17:40.33 | I_Died_Once | without re-hashing and getting my head bit off, do y'all have a central page or something that details the problems we're having with a .deb package.. in one spot without digging across the net for it? |
17:40.45 | JeffM | nope |
17:40.55 | JeffM | when have we ever had any kind of documentation like that? |
17:41.17 | I_Died_Once | i mean, i know theres issues with the .deb package but thats all I know |
17:41.19 | JeffM | oh tha'ts right, you don't pay attention, you jut pop in, say things, and say WW after it |
17:41.30 | I_Died_Once | i didnt know if there was one of those source tracker things you all use |
17:41.31 | JeffM | it's all been discussed here |
17:41.37 | JeffM | do you even KNOW who's working on it? |
17:41.49 | JeffM | heh, we don't use those 'source tracker" things |
17:42.14 | I_Died_Once | you just told khon to put an idea up for later |
17:42.23 | JeffM | thats for feature requests |
17:42.30 | JeffM | thats the only thing we have documented |
17:42.36 | JeffM | and it's on a wiki, not a "soruce tracker thing" |
17:43.13 | JeffM | if you really want to help you need to first build the package we have, then see how it dosn't follow the debian submision guidelines |
17:43.18 | JeffM | then fix those parts |
17:43.32 | JeffM | then go find a registered debian developer |
17:43.36 | JeffM | and have them submit it |
17:43.47 | JeffM | after we stamp the version as 2.4.2 |
17:44.02 | JeffM | or you go and decide that it's better for us to use our own repository |
17:44.11 | JeffM | and just get our package into backports |
17:44.18 | JeffM | got a link for that? |
17:44.48 | I_Died_Once | i'm looking for a submission guideline |
17:44.58 | JeffM | cus none of us can goole |
17:45.01 | JeffM | google |
17:45.53 | JeffM | but even then. we get 2.4.2 out. it has no real features, then what? |
17:46.25 | JeffM | wait another year for khonkhortisan to add a few more things then push out another for the 40 people still playing? |
17:47.23 | JeffM | Can you see the problem in our process? |
17:56.15 | CIA-106 | BZFlag: 03Khonkhortisan 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8321 10/Development_RoadMap: /* 2.4 */ "Planing" -> "Planning" |
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21:08.18 | khonkhortisan | Do -solo tanks use a different spawn algorithm? I have a box with water around it and I spawn on the box every time while the other tank spawns in the water every time. |
21:08.35 | khonkhortisan | Autopilot also spawns on the box |
21:10.37 | JeffM | the server should compute the spawn |
21:17.04 | JeffM | it may process robots differently |
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22:08.12 | khonkhortisan | it seems unfair to the bots, they're people too! |
22:08.27 | JeffM | they never complain |
22:08.45 | JeffM | dislexics are teeple poo! |
22:08.59 | khonkhortisan | yeah those lysdexics |
22:09.25 | JeffM | is there code on the server that handles them differently? |
22:09.34 | JeffM | or do bots just ignore the spawn from the server? |
22:09.44 | JeffM | I would belive the latter before the former |
22:10.24 | khonkhortisan | I didn't get to look at it yet, someone opened another tab wanting me to judge a psychology presentation video |
22:10.32 | khonkhortisan | I don't know how they found me |
22:11.00 | JeffM | fun |
22:13.50 | khonkhortisan | I would believe it just picks any old spot on the ground big enough to hold a tank |
22:14.20 | JeffM | spawns used to be on the client, and that logic didn't know about all the new fancy features like water |
22:14.24 | JeffM | so we moved it to the server |
22:14.45 | JeffM | it's probable that the bot code was never updated to get the spawn from the server and just calls the old code |
22:14.58 | JeffM | it may be hard to get it from the server since the bots share connection with the client |
22:26.50 | khonkhortisan | Found it. SpawnPosition's bool onGroundOnly is set to (!clOptions->respawnOnBuildings) || (player->player.isBot()) |
22:27.09 | khonkhortisan | -solo isn't very compatible with waterLevel |
22:27.54 | khonkhortisan | solo bots are forced to the ground, and apparently autopilot doesn't count as a bot |
22:29.50 | khonkhortisan | I'll just allow bots spawning on buildings then. |
22:31.34 | JeffM | yeah autopilot is a real player with the autopilot flag |
22:31.43 | JeffM | well the bots will probably freak out |
22:31.58 | JeffM | the logic may not handle them getting off the building |
22:32.01 | JeffM | but test it |
22:32.04 | khonkhortisan | better than them just exploding |
22:32.20 | JeffM | not if you don't have water |
22:32.39 | khonkhortisan | so you're saying they might just sit there |
22:32.42 | JeffM | yeah |
22:32.44 | JeffM | test it |
22:32.53 | JeffM | if they do then make your change only do it if there is water |
22:33.04 | khonkhortisan | yeah that's my other option |
22:33.11 | JeffM | I don't want to break bots on maps that they work on now |
22:36.37 | khonkhortisan | it moves around and is dumb enough to fall in the water when I come near it, let's see how it does on a random map |
22:37.01 | JeffM | sounds like that isn't much better |
22:38.38 | khonkhortisan | and the autopilot lets me push it into the water without it even shooting |
22:38.58 | JeffM | I has never been our strong point |
22:39.03 | JeffM | it may be moot to make changes for these dumb bots |
22:39.16 | JeffM | personaly I'd like to remove them from the client and reimplement them on the server |
22:39.25 | JeffM | then they could be extended with plugins |
22:39.49 | khonkhortisan | sigonasr2 said that was being worked on |
22:39.55 | JeffM | by who? |
22:40.06 | JeffM | cus it can't happen untill there is a server side shot system |
22:40.11 | khonkhortisan | him and someone else |
22:40.19 | JeffM | good luck to them |
22:40.31 | JeffM | I implemented the basics for server side players |
22:40.39 | JeffM | but there is a lot of info missing on the server |
22:41.11 | JeffM | any reason they are working on it in secret and not here talking about it? |
22:41.31 | khonkhortisan | I don't know, I'm working on something secret too :) |
22:41.43 | JeffM | fun |
22:41.57 | JeffM | so much for colaboration |
22:41.58 | khonkhortisan | -w server option for wings just the same as +r adds ricochet and -j adds jumping |
22:42.12 | JeffM | eww |
22:42.23 | JeffM | how would that work on old clients? |
22:42.37 | khonkhortisan | they accuse newer clients (me) of cheating |
22:42.55 | JeffM | you play this on current servers? |
22:43.05 | khonkhortisan | "Khonkhortisan's testing server" |
22:43.12 | JeffM | please change your version string |
22:43.16 | JeffM | so you don't show up on the list |
22:43.17 | khonkhortisan | it requires both a modified client and modified server |
22:43.35 | JeffM | mod servers are only allowed if you do that |
22:43.47 | khonkhortisan | so the protocol? |
22:43.47 | JeffM | just change your proto version to something else |
22:43.49 | JeffM | yeah |
22:43.51 | khonkhortisan | okay |
22:44.02 | JeffM | techincaly you are violating our listing policy |
22:44.29 | JeffM | that mod will not be accepted in 2.4.x for the same reason as the self kills |
22:45.09 | khonkhortisan | but it's even more incompatible than self kills, a non-existant advantage instead of a non-existant disadvantage |
22:45.30 | JeffM | dosn't matter, we don't make incompatable versions with the same major/minor |
22:45.32 | JeffM | it's policy |
22:45.50 | JeffM | a server setting must apply to all players regardless of client version |
22:46.00 | JeffM | if they can connect they should get the same game behavor |
22:46.57 | JeffM | this is why we need a super dumb client, then server changes apply to everyone ;) |
22:47.39 | khonkhortisan | yeah clientplatform with client and server built on top of it |
22:47.49 | khonkhortisan | that'll help server side bots too |
22:48.19 | khonkhortisan | oh I'm talking about something different |
22:49.35 | JeffM | if the client is dumb and just displays stuff, and the server has the entire gamestate then yes bots are easy too :) |
22:51.39 | khonkhortisan | Does a newer-protocol server still show up in the list server if the client is newer-protocol too? |
22:51.45 | JeffM | ues |
22:51.46 | JeffM | yes |
22:51.52 | JeffM | thats why we ask you do that |
22:52.09 | JeffM | so that clients of your fork will see it |
22:52.16 | JeffM | each fork gets it's own string |
22:53.49 | JeffM | since so much is done client side, the protocol is much more then just the order of bits sent across the wire, it also represents specific functions in the game logic |
22:55.10 | trepan | the open-source fairy -- what does he leave under your pillow? |
22:55.20 | JeffM | you don't want to know |
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22:55.58 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://wiki.BZFlag.org/Getting_Help || Channel Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || Please test SVN trunk for 2.4.2 release so we can have a debian package |
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22:56.50 | khonkhortisan | So I set it to forkname0221? |
22:57.18 | JeffM | it can't be that long |
22:57.25 | JeffM | what is it now? |
22:57.45 | JeffM | BZFS0221 ? |
22:57.52 | khonkhortisan | yes |
22:57.58 | JeffM | you can try changing the BZFS part |
22:58.01 | JeffM | or the number part |
22:58.06 | JeffM | but it has to be 8 characters |
22:58.20 | khonkhortisan | all I see is the number part, I'll change that |
22:58.25 | JeffM | that'll work |
22:58.31 | JeffM | the BZFS part is in another #def |
22:58.54 | khonkhortisan | I know why it has to be eight characters, I saw the XXXXXXXX string that was cut back for the protocol name |
22:59.13 | JeffM | it's also sent as binary when the connection starts |
22:59.20 | JeffM | so yes it MUST be 8 characters |
22:59.31 | JeffM | the list probalby supports more but the rest of the client and serv er don't |
23:00.47 | JeffM | I know the server specificly looks for 8 characers of the proto header when tyring to figure out if it's a client or an HTTP connection |
23:16.05 | trepan | for custom code that isn't in the normal dev flow, i'd suggest changing the BZFS part |
23:16.11 | trepan | (but that hardly matters anymore) |
23:30.35 | khonkhortisan | the meaning is more obvious changing the BZFS instead of the number (and using svn so I can see the error with automatic connect) |
23:34.53 | khonkhortisan | the BZFS part is in a static |