IRC log for #bzflag on 20120622

00:11.08khonkhortisan...and moving the comments around gives me a segfault. More for me to do!
00:31.18khonkhortisanah, it decided to complain because it didn't have a "joinMenu = new JoinMenu;"
00:33.14khonkhortisanoh. escape makes the menu disappear instead of going back to main.
00:34.58khonkhortisanSo I have to go through main and don't need the extra include
00:41.25khonkhortisanthe "Error connecting to server." message gets uncentered if you press F1 (from a window or from fullscreen) (both svn and release)
00:48.24CIA-106BZFlag: 03khonkhortisan * r22490 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/ (JoinMenu.cxx playing.cxx):
00:48.24CIA-106BZFlag: Show Join Menu when connecting using an address supplied on the command
00:48.24CIA-106BZFlag: line, in order to not miss connection error messages.
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01:09.47khonkhortisanit tells me it's an automatic connection without me even having to think about it
01:26.06I_Died_Once`1
01:26.25khonkhortisan?
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02:35.24khonkhortisanI thought I lost my config because I changed my hostname
02:39.36khonkhortisanwhere are favorite servers stored?
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03:09.10khonkhortisanafkI really have to fix my computer someday
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15:34.47khonkhortisanBZW Toolkit link broken http://wiki.bzflag.org/Blender
15:57.01CIA-106BZFlag: 03A bullet gone crazy 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8314 10/BZtank: /* Admin Staff */
15:58.49CIA-106BZFlag: 03Khonkhortisan 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8315 10/BZW: link to bzw manpage
16:01.15CIA-106BZFlag: 03A bullet gone crazy 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8316 10/BZtank: /* Admin Staff */
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16:11.41CIA-106BZFlag: 03A bullet gone crazy 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8318 10/BZtank: /* Admin Staff */
16:12.30CIA-106BZFlag: 03A bullet gone crazy 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8319 10/BZtank: /* Admin Staff */
16:15.07CIA-106BZFlag: 03khonkhortisan * r22491 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/LocalPlayer.cxx: comment grammar
16:28.37khonkhortisanIs anyone against -noSelfKills?
16:32.57I_Died_Oncewould love it
16:57.01khonkhortisanI'm a ghost! That just doesn't look right. I hope it only gets used for training servers.
17:00.43I_Died_Onceseriously would love a -neSelfKills option
17:01.57khonkhortisanI just have to check whether it causes a local collision warning as observer, and then ask someone whether I can commit it
17:04.01khonkhortisanI got the idea from here http://wiki.bzflag.org/Flag_ideas/Rejected#Safety_First_.28SF.29
17:05.14I_Died_Oncewe were discussing it the other day for the upcoming rabbit hunt
17:05.29khonkhortisangood timing
17:05.55I_Died_Onceas long as it doesnt require a new client
17:06.08khonkhortisanno older clients will just shoot themselves
17:11.00khonkhortisanyou would need a new client to have it take effect, but it wouldn't be incompatible with the current client.
17:13.04khonkhortisanhuh. it doesn't even attempt local collision testing with self kills.
17:18.31JeffMkhonkhortisan, you can't implement that till the next progo break
17:18.36khonkhortisanaw
17:18.46JeffMwe don't have clients that have different game behavor
17:19.03khonkhortisanokay
17:19.37JeffMspecialy since we don't have bins on all platforms and we take so long to get some platforms done
17:19.51khonkhortisanIs there a special place I can put the patch to reserve its spot in the next break?
17:20.05JeffMpatches go in the patch tracker
17:20.07khonkhortisanOr do I just have to stay alive until then?
17:20.18JeffMwe have that development road map
17:20.22JeffMadd it to 2.6
17:20.36JeffMthe code is trivial, you just need to keep the idea in the list
17:23.32I_Died_Onceyay
17:26.30JeffMtho the likelyhood of a full versions update is super small
17:26.57I_Died_Onceboo
17:27.46JeffMdude be realistic
17:27.48I_Died_Onceif another protocal break is to come, i say look through some of the 2.99 stuff and incorporate some of the game mode api stuff
17:27.59JeffMno duh
17:28.41JeffMwe took what we could from 2.99 for the timeframe of 2.4, you know that. why do you think we woudln't keep doing that in the future?
17:28.58JeffMand that was over a year ago
17:29.10JeffMwe can't even get a debian package out in a YEAR
17:30.21I_Died_Oncewhat if i dug up some "source to .deb" tutorials and did it for ya
17:30.29I_Died_Oncepackage up 2..4
17:30.40JeffMyou really don't pay attention here do you?
17:30.43JeffMsure go for it
17:30.53khonkhortisanthen there would be a debian package
17:31.01I_Died_Oncei browse but i dont read it like gospel, no
17:31.08JeffMyeah, except that it's WAY more then just reading some tutorials
17:31.21JeffMbut knock yourself out man
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17:31.52JeffMgo ahead and ignore all the work others have done on it, or the debian games team.
17:33.09CIA-106BZFlag: 03Khonkhortisan 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8320 10/Development_RoadMap: /* 2.6 (Next Breaking Release) */ -noSelfKills option
17:33.15I_Died_Oncehttp://www.quietearth.us/articles/2006/08/16/Building-deb-package-from-source
17:33.40JeffMthanks, I_Died_Once that solves all our problems, you are our hero!
17:33.51I_Died_Oncetakes a bow
17:34.01I_Died_Oncewuld like to thank the Nobel academy...
17:34.25JeffMyou should forward that to the debian games team
17:34.30JeffMI'm sure that will help them out
17:35.33JeffMperhaps next you can solve our lag problems by sending us a link to a wikipedia article on tcp packets
17:37.04I_Died_Oncehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_Control_Protocol
17:37.07khonkhortisanNAT tunneling would be more helpful
17:37.23JeffMwhy so we can have MORE crappy servers on home conenctions?
17:37.43JeffMthat will totaly make more people play
17:37.51khonkhortisanyeah you're right
17:38.15JeffMif anyone wants to keep this project from dying right now they need to be realistic
17:38.27JeffMyou can't bet on wishes
17:38.35JeffMthe open source fairy won't come save you
17:38.40JeffMhe's in detroit
17:39.05I_Died_Onceheh
17:39.52JeffMpeople just making statements and throwing out links/features is what got the project in the state it is in now
17:40.33I_Died_Oncewithout re-hashing and getting my head bit off, do y'all have a central page or something that details the problems we're having with a .deb package.. in one spot without digging across the net for it?
17:40.45JeffMnope
17:40.55JeffMwhen have we ever had any kind of documentation like that?
17:41.17I_Died_Oncei mean, i know theres issues with the .deb package but thats all I know
17:41.19JeffMoh tha'ts right, you don't pay attention, you jut pop in, say things, and say WW after it
17:41.30I_Died_Oncei didnt know if there was one of those source tracker things you all use
17:41.31JeffMit's all been discussed here
17:41.37JeffMdo you even KNOW who's working on it?
17:41.49JeffMheh, we don't use those 'source tracker" things
17:42.14I_Died_Onceyou just told khon to put an idea up for later
17:42.23JeffMthats for feature requests
17:42.30JeffMthats the only thing we have documented
17:42.36JeffMand it's on a wiki, not a "soruce tracker thing"
17:43.13JeffMif you really want to help you need to first build the package we have, then see how it dosn't follow the debian submision guidelines
17:43.18JeffMthen fix those parts
17:43.32JeffMthen go find a registered debian developer
17:43.36JeffMand have them submit it
17:43.47JeffMafter we stamp the version as 2.4.2
17:44.02JeffMor you go and decide that it's better for us to use our own repository
17:44.11JeffMand just get our package into backports
17:44.18JeffMgot a link for that?
17:44.48I_Died_Oncei'm looking for a submission guideline
17:44.58JeffMcus none of us can goole
17:45.01JeffMgoogle
17:45.53JeffMbut even then. we get 2.4.2 out. it has no real features, then what?
17:46.25JeffMwait another year for khonkhortisan to add a few more things then push out another for the 40 people still playing?
17:47.23JeffMCan you see the problem in our process?
17:56.15CIA-106BZFlag: 03Khonkhortisan 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8321 10/Development_RoadMap: /* 2.4 */ "Planing" -> "Planning"
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21:08.18khonkhortisanDo -solo tanks use a different spawn algorithm? I have a box with water around it and I spawn on the box every time while the other tank spawns in the water every time.
21:08.35khonkhortisanAutopilot also spawns on the box
21:10.37JeffMthe server should compute the spawn
21:17.04JeffMit may process robots differently
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22:08.12khonkhortisanit seems unfair to the bots, they're people too!
22:08.27JeffMthey never complain
22:08.45JeffMdislexics are teeple poo!
22:08.59khonkhortisanyeah those lysdexics
22:09.25JeffMis there code on the server that handles them differently?
22:09.34JeffMor do bots just ignore the spawn from the server?
22:09.44JeffMI would belive the latter before the former
22:10.24khonkhortisanI didn't get to look at it yet, someone opened another tab wanting me to judge a psychology presentation video
22:10.32khonkhortisanI don't know how they found me
22:11.00JeffMfun
22:13.50khonkhortisanI would believe it just picks any old spot on the ground big enough to hold a tank
22:14.20JeffMspawns used to be on the client, and that logic didn't know about all the new fancy features like water
22:14.24JeffMso we moved it to the server
22:14.45JeffMit's probable that the bot code was never updated to get the spawn from the server and just calls the old code
22:14.58JeffMit may be hard to get it from the server since the bots share connection with the client
22:26.50khonkhortisanFound it. SpawnPosition's bool onGroundOnly is set to (!clOptions->respawnOnBuildings) || (player->player.isBot())
22:27.09khonkhortisan-solo isn't very compatible with waterLevel
22:27.54khonkhortisansolo bots are forced to the ground, and apparently autopilot doesn't count as a bot
22:29.50khonkhortisanI'll just allow bots spawning on buildings then.
22:31.34JeffMyeah autopilot is a real player with the autopilot flag
22:31.43JeffMwell the bots will probably freak out
22:31.58JeffMthe logic may not handle them getting off the building
22:32.01JeffMbut test it
22:32.04khonkhortisanbetter than them just exploding
22:32.20JeffMnot if you don't have water
22:32.39khonkhortisanso you're saying they might just sit there
22:32.42JeffMyeah
22:32.44JeffMtest it
22:32.53JeffMif they do then make your change only do it if there is water
22:33.04khonkhortisanyeah that's my other option
22:33.11JeffMI don't want to break bots on maps that they work on now
22:36.37khonkhortisanit moves around and is dumb enough to fall in the water when I come near it, let's see how it does on a random map
22:37.01JeffMsounds like that isn't much better
22:38.38khonkhortisanand the autopilot lets me push it into the water without it even shooting
22:38.58JeffMI has never been our strong point
22:39.03JeffMit may be moot to make changes for these dumb bots
22:39.16JeffMpersonaly I'd like to remove them from the client and reimplement them on the server
22:39.25JeffMthen they could be extended with plugins
22:39.49khonkhortisansigonasr2 said that was being worked on
22:39.55JeffMby who?
22:40.06JeffMcus it can't happen untill there is a server side shot system
22:40.11khonkhortisanhim and someone else
22:40.19JeffMgood luck to them
22:40.31JeffMI implemented the basics for server side players
22:40.39JeffMbut there is a lot of info missing on the server
22:41.11JeffMany reason they are working on it in secret and not here talking about it?
22:41.31khonkhortisanI don't know, I'm working on something secret too :)
22:41.43JeffMfun
22:41.57JeffMso much for colaboration
22:41.58khonkhortisan-w server option for wings just the same as +r adds ricochet and -j adds jumping
22:42.12JeffMeww
22:42.23JeffMhow would that work on old clients?
22:42.37khonkhortisanthey accuse newer clients (me) of cheating
22:42.55JeffMyou play this on current servers?
22:43.05khonkhortisan"Khonkhortisan's testing server"
22:43.12JeffMplease change your version string
22:43.16JeffMso you don't show up on the list
22:43.17khonkhortisanit requires both a modified client and modified server
22:43.35JeffMmod servers are only allowed if you do that
22:43.47khonkhortisanso the protocol?
22:43.47JeffMjust change your proto version to something else
22:43.49JeffMyeah
22:43.51khonkhortisanokay
22:44.02JeffMtechincaly you are violating our listing policy
22:44.29JeffMthat mod will not be accepted in 2.4.x for the same reason as the self kills
22:45.09khonkhortisanbut it's even more incompatible than self kills, a non-existant advantage instead of a non-existant disadvantage
22:45.30JeffMdosn't matter, we don't make incompatable versions with the same major/minor
22:45.32JeffMit's policy
22:45.50JeffMa server setting must apply to all players regardless of client version
22:46.00JeffMif they can connect they should get the same game behavor
22:46.57JeffMthis is why we need a super dumb client, then server changes apply to everyone ;)
22:47.39khonkhortisanyeah clientplatform with client and server built on top of it
22:47.49khonkhortisanthat'll help server side bots too
22:48.19khonkhortisanoh I'm talking about something different
22:49.35JeffMif the client is dumb and just displays stuff, and the server has the entire gamestate then yes bots are easy too :)
22:51.39khonkhortisanDoes a newer-protocol server still show up in the list server if the client is newer-protocol too?
22:51.45JeffMues
22:51.46JeffMyes
22:51.52JeffMthats why we ask you do that
22:52.09JeffMso that clients of your fork will see it
22:52.16JeffMeach fork gets it's own string
22:53.49JeffMsince so much is done client side, the protocol is much more then just the order of bits sent across the wire, it also represents specific functions in the game logic
22:55.10trepanthe open-source fairy -- what does he leave under your pillow?
22:55.20JeffMyou don't want to know
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22:55.58*** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://wiki.BZFlag.org/Getting_Help || Channel Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || Please test SVN trunk for 2.4.2 release so we can have a debian package
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22:56.50khonkhortisanSo I set it to forkname0221?
22:57.18JeffMit can't be that long
22:57.25JeffMwhat is it now?
22:57.45JeffMBZFS0221 ?
22:57.52khonkhortisanyes
22:57.58JeffMyou can try changing the BZFS part
22:58.01JeffMor the number part
22:58.06JeffMbut it has to be 8 characters
22:58.20khonkhortisanall I see is the number part, I'll change that
22:58.25JeffMthat'll work
22:58.31JeffMthe BZFS part is in another #def
22:58.54khonkhortisanI know why it has to be eight characters, I saw the XXXXXXXX string that was cut back for the protocol name
22:59.13JeffMit's also sent as binary when the connection starts
22:59.20JeffMso yes it MUST be 8 characters
22:59.31JeffMthe list probalby supports more but the rest of the client and serv er don't
23:00.47JeffMI know the server specificly looks for 8 characers of the proto header when tyring to figure out if it's a client or an HTTP connection
23:16.05trepanfor custom code that isn't in the normal dev flow, i'd suggest changing the BZFS part
23:16.11trepan(but that hardly matters anymore)
23:30.35khonkhortisanthe meaning is more obvious changing the BZFS instead of the number (and using svn so I can see the error with automatic connect)
23:34.53khonkhortisanthe BZFS part is in a static

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