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14:32.08 | CIA-88 | BZFlag: 03trepan * r20867 10/branches/v2_0branch/bzflag/ (5 files in 4 dirs): * shotLength backport (viewport shot tails) |
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14:35.50 | SparkyXI | What's the name of planet mofo's room again? |
14:35.58 | SparkyXI | *channel |
14:40.58 | CIA-88 | BZFlag: 03Cobra Fast 07http://my.bzflag.org * r6944 10/w/Voice_Chat: |
14:41.15 | CIA-88 | BZFlag: 03Cobra Fast 07http://my.bzflag.org * r6945 10/w/Voice_Chat: |
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14:56.09 | CIA-88 | BZFlag: 03Cobra Fast 07http://my.bzflag.org * r6946 10/w/Jargon: PC (Pass Camp) added. |
14:57.14 | SparkyXI | wishes Planet Mofo would make this weekend a CTF weekend. |
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15:07.31 | CIA-88 | BZFlag: 03Cobra Fast 07http://my.bzflag.org * r6947 10/w/King_of_the_Hill: Page created as stub with basic information. |
15:10.02 | CIA-88 | BZFlag: 03Cobra Fast 07http://my.bzflag.org * r6948 10/w/King_of_the_Hill: Added to Category:Plug-ins |
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17:14.30 | blast007 | joevano_test: Success! |
17:18.19 | joevano | ick.. it doesn't disconnect |
17:20.31 | blast007 | Fail! |
17:23.49 | joevano | so has anyone here heard the term 'passcamp" in relation to bzflag? |
17:24.22 | joevano | i don't want to be a jerk and remove it from the wiki if it is something I just am not aware of |
17:24.29 | brad | yes joe |
17:24.48 | brad | its mainly (only?) in leagues |
17:24.51 | joevano | is it a league thing? |
17:25.00 | joevano | i was wondering |
17:25.23 | JefferyM | sounds like camping waiting for a flag pass |
17:25.26 | brad | 1 teammate caps, another camps on enemy base and passes flag as soon as your mate caps |
17:25.30 | brad | yeah |
17:25.49 | brad | dirty tactics, but it works |
17:26.26 | JefferyM | how far can you pass a flag? |
17:28.16 | brad | the only limit is how the map is made |
17:28.45 | JefferyM | how do you actualy do it, I wasn't aware that there was a facility to send a map to a player? |
17:29.03 | brad | no it sends the flag to middle of the map on GU |
17:29.12 | brad | if you drop over a pyr |
17:29.15 | JefferyM | oh |
17:29.16 | brad | or teleporter |
17:29.17 | JefferyM | wow |
17:29.25 | JefferyM | so it uses the rezap stuff |
17:29.40 | JefferyM | yeah that's not realy an intended tactical behavor :) |
17:29.43 | CIA-88 | BZFlag: 03DonnyBaker 07http://my.bzflag.org * r6950 10/w/King_of_the_Hill: Get rid of stub and redirect to the existing page |
17:29.47 | trepan | teleporter probably won't cause flag passing with BZ 3.0 |
17:30.00 | JefferyM | does dislike current CTF method |
17:30.13 | trepan | (and pass camping can be limited with the judicious use of zones) |
17:30.24 | brad | aw, no tele passing? |
17:30.37 | JefferyM | any reason we can't have a flag drop stick to a pyramid? |
17:30.39 | trepan | nope, flag will sit on top of the tele |
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17:31.00 | trepan | JefferyM: flags pick-up detection is 2D, iirc |
17:31.08 | JefferyM | it's server side now |
17:31.15 | trepan | could change it easily then |
17:31.16 | JefferyM | we could put some Z smarts into it |
17:31.26 | JefferyM | cylindrical at least |
17:32.00 | JefferyM | let the flags hang out on the pyramid and then the server will give it to you if you fly over/near it |
17:32.08 | blast007 | hrm. A good number of CTF maps are designed around being able to pass the flag to the middle |
17:32.09 | trepan | or under? |
17:32.18 | JefferyM | withiun a z range, sure |
17:32.36 | JefferyM | blast007, if we wanted a passing system we'd have made a passing system ;) |
17:32.55 | JefferyM | but also since its server side the drop/spawn/pickup can be set per map |
17:33.00 | joevano | yeah, i would hate to get rid of passing all togother |
17:33.20 | brad | "its not a bug, its a feature!" |
17:33.32 | joevano | maybe come up with something a little more configurable |
17:33.38 | JefferyM | using the games ability to respawn a flag when it hits "bad" terreaint isn't a pass |
17:33.50 | JefferyM | I'd be all for a "throw flag" option |
17:33.53 | blast007 | or even if a plugin can maintain the old behaviour |
17:34.00 | JefferyM | like a football pass |
17:34.11 | JefferyM | but a "tactical teleport" dosn't seem that well designed |
17:34.19 | JefferyM | specialy when it's so specific |
17:34.41 | brad | well, its still possible in 2.0 to send back to base |
17:34.49 | JefferyM | how? |
17:34.52 | brad | depends how the map is designed |
17:35.02 | JefferyM | if the origin has no spawn |
17:35.02 | brad | I think you gotta have something in the middle |
17:35.06 | blast007 | if the center of the map has an object there, it goes to the base instead |
17:35.16 | JefferyM | yeah that's not realy the way it was meant :) |
17:35.36 | blast007 | or if you have safety zones for a team, the flag will fly there when dropped over a "bad" area |
17:35.43 | JefferyM | so much for game design |
17:35.48 | trepan | JefferyM: bzfs.cxx:2915, << if (fabsf(tpos.z - fpos.z) >= 0.1f) { >> |
17:36.01 | JefferyM | what's tpos? |
17:36.13 | trepan | add _flagGrabNegZ and _flagGrabPosZ ? (or just a single value?) |
17:36.14 | blast007 | tank pos and flag pos? |
17:36.18 | trepan | yup |
17:36.26 | JefferyM | I'd use a range of tank height |
17:36.45 | JefferyM | like + 1.25h and - .25h |
17:36.58 | JefferyM | so if part of the flag goes thru tank height |
17:37.02 | trepan | sounds reasonable, assuming the server-side has accurate tank height values |
17:37.09 | JefferyM | it's a var so it should |
17:37.13 | trepan | hm, height never changes, not for T or OB |
17:37.26 | trepan | only changes for squishiness, iirc |
17:37.43 | JefferyM | so it'd only be a mod for flags that change iut |
17:37.53 | JefferyM | probalby need a funciton "computeTankHeight" based on flag dymanics |
17:38.05 | JefferyM | graphical squish dosn' need to play in the pickup code |
17:38.27 | JefferyM | it should be more then just a bottom Z bottom Z test |
17:38.38 | JefferyM | maybe use the pole hight too |
17:39.05 | JefferyM | so if you get your volume within the pole, in some rad around the flag it's a pickup |
17:39.17 | JefferyM | then all ya gotta do is "nudge" it |
17:39.18 | trepan | given that the heights basically don't change, neg/pos would be sufficient |
17:39.25 | JefferyM | k |
17:39.26 | trepan | but your way is probably easier for the kids ;) |
17:39.50 | JefferyM | if it looks like you "hit" the flag, you should get it |
17:40.02 | JefferyM | the passing thing is the more distressing thing |
17:40.21 | JefferyM | given that it's not really a designed feature, but it seems some emergent gamplay has happened around it |
17:40.33 | JefferyM | it's something we could easaly break |
17:40.45 | JefferyM | since its based on a huge number of assumptions |
17:41.23 | trepan | would you also allow flags to rest on death physics drivers? |
17:41.38 | JefferyM | the most generic way I can see to replicate the old behavor with a feature is to have a zone that can detect when a flag is droped into it, and have that zone define repop rules |
17:41.41 | trepan | was looking at DropGeometry.cxx ... |
17:41.51 | JefferyM | trepan, that's a good question |
17:42.09 | JefferyM | probably not, but I'd not move it to the origin or base, I'd move it to the closest "clean" area |
17:42.24 | trepan | ditto for drops that don't have valid clearance, drivethrough, etc... |
17:42.35 | JefferyM | yeah I'd move it to closest clear |
17:42.43 | JefferyM | not a total respawn |
17:42.48 | JefferyM | at least for team flags |
17:42.58 | JefferyM | for supers I can undertand a reswawn |
17:43.02 | trepan | just automatically generate safe zones then? |
17:43.03 | JefferyM | but the team flag position MEANS something |
17:43.05 | trepan | (less change that way) |
17:43.09 | JefferyM | yeah probably |
17:43.18 | JefferyM | does not care about the actual tech |
17:43.28 | JefferyM | just the behavor |
17:43.54 | JefferyM | yeah for the current pass mechanism I'd make "drop zones" that specificy a destination zone |
17:44.11 | JefferyM | and when a flag of a specific type is droped in that zone, it repops in the target zone |
17:44.23 | JefferyM | then any map can have pass area's regardless of geometry |
17:44.27 | JefferyM | and it's all defineable |
17:44.45 | blast007 | JefferyM: currently the team flags don't 'teleport'. they 'fly'. ;) |
17:45.07 | JefferyM | can someone grab them when they are in flight? |
17:45.22 | blast007 | hmm, not sure |
17:45.25 | trepan | don't think so |
17:45.26 | blast007 | likely not |
17:45.32 | JefferyM | then it's the same as a respawn |
17:45.37 | JefferyM | just graphically different |
17:46.01 | JefferyM | so yeah that's how I'd define a feature to do what they do now |
17:46.11 | JefferyM | then it's all very clear in the map what will happen |
17:46.33 | JefferyM | and opens up things like moving supers back to "reload" zones when the shot time is up\ |
17:47.01 | blast007 | I think superflags already do that |
17:47.10 | JefferyM | but we can't just let the current mechanism go on, as we've seen it's too easy to break as it's not feature. |
17:47.18 | JefferyM | blast007, well it'd work on any drop |
17:47.28 | JefferyM | not just a forced drop/respawn |
17:47.55 | JefferyM | trepan has allready "broken" the beahvor for teleporters in making teleporters be better defined for collisions |
17:48.14 | JefferyM | I could see someone busting the behavor and not realising it quite easaly |
17:48.20 | JefferyM | and they'd be right to |
17:48.50 | trepan | notes that the old tele/flag behaviour can be easily reproduced |
17:48.52 | blast007 | well, teleporter passing (afaik) was only recently started to be used |
17:49.05 | blast007 | the usual method is dropping it onto a pyramid |
17:49.21 | blast007 | that's used heavily on the Missile Wars map |
17:50.38 | JefferyM | again same rules apply, there is nothing in the game that says "make sure that pyramids respawn to the origin beceause that's a game rule" |
17:50.42 | trepan | add a safety zone to each base, passing problem disappears |
17:50.51 | JefferyM | it's just a "oh crap" section of the code |
17:51.15 | JefferyM | I'd rather it be a well defined feature |
17:51.30 | JefferyM | not something that just happens to work beceause the code is writen one specific way |
17:51.34 | blast007 | JefferyM: heh, well, I guess since it's been there even in 1.7 code (afaik), people assumed by now that it *was* a feature ;) |
17:51.47 | blast007 | but yeah |
17:51.55 | trepan | it's already well defined, the nearest safety zone is used |
17:51.59 | trepan | but you want finer control ... |
17:52.28 | JefferyM | wel I'm wondering what'll happen if we decide flags CAN stick to pyramids |
17:52.38 | trepan | bzfsAPI have enough hooks to do it? |
17:52.47 | JefferyM | an very possible thing if we make the pickup code more flexable |
17:52.50 | JefferyM | it may |
17:53.02 | JefferyM | but if its' used as often as he says it is, a map feature would be called for |
17:53.07 | JefferyM | I mean I can see how it could be fun |
17:53.31 | JefferyM | and you may want to define these drop zones anywhere |
17:53.36 | JefferyM | not just on a pyramid |
17:53.48 | JefferyM | I bet they hide superflat pyramids in places to do it now :) |
17:53.54 | JefferyM | and that's cheezy ;) |
17:54.03 | trepan | or invisible drivethrough objects |
17:54.08 | JefferyM | yeah |
17:54.12 | blast007 | normal pyramids work just fine too |
17:54.21 | JefferyM | I say we make it a feature |
17:54.25 | blast007 | k |
17:54.27 | JefferyM | clear and defined |
17:54.51 | trepan | advises the use of a special meshface property for more flexibility |
17:54.58 | trepan | all game features can now be done with mesh faces |
17:55.00 | JefferyM | also a good idea |
17:55.01 | joevano | yep they add invisible drive through objects if they don't want you to be able to drop on a flat surface |
17:55.11 | trepan | (team bases, teleporter linkage, zones, etc...) |
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17:55.24 | JefferyM | again the tech of how it gerts done is less important to the fact that it be a core feature that is clearly defined |
17:55.51 | JefferyM | a plugin could work but if it's done this much we should not make users implement it themeselves, or load something |
17:56.17 | trepan | but ensuring that a plugin can adjust the behaviour would be a good thing... |
17:56.21 | JefferyM | map's will have to be updated (by hand or using some tool ) but after that it'll be very clear |
17:56.33 | JefferyM | yeah the API should be able to remap all flag spawn behavor |
17:56.38 | JefferyM | as a general rule |
17:57.07 | trepan | a "force" flag drop method that bypasses some checks would probably suffice (as well as an improved flag drop event) |
17:57.15 | JefferyM | probably |
17:57.29 | JefferyM | I like the idea of making the pickup be more of a cylinder too |
17:57.46 | JefferyM | then flags could sick to pyramids and you'd have to hop to get em |
17:57.48 | JefferyM | more of a challenge |
17:58.11 | trepan | assuming the map topology allows you to get them |
17:58.17 | JefferyM | yeah |
17:58.27 | trepan | which is the gotcha, this would probably break some old maps |
17:58.31 | JefferyM | map topologoy can prbably always be made to allow for "stuck flags" |
17:59.04 | JefferyM | well perhaps an default to make them go to the closets open area of the pyramid and an option to let em stick |
17:59.12 | JefferyM | but not rezap them to home |
17:59.20 | JefferyM | make em slide down :) |
17:59.28 | trepan | have fun with it ;) |
17:59.48 | JefferyM | yeah it's probalby not all that easy |
18:00.13 | trepan | sliding flags wouldn't be that bad, easy to find the gradient |
18:00.15 | JefferyM | precompute "Open" areas around each "undropable" objhect |
18:00.21 | trepan | ray cast to find the intersection |
18:00.31 | trepan | (assuming something like a pyramid on a box) |
18:01.40 | trepan | could do add tank sliding at the some time -- who wants to open up that pile of crap? ;) |
18:01.46 | trepan | s/some/same/ |
18:01.53 | JefferyM | well something has to be done to define it as a feature or it'll be in danger of getting busted more as we go on. |
18:01.59 | JefferyM | heh |
18:03.58 | trepan | weird, i think i did do a patch for sliding tanks years ago -- apparently, my memory isn't what once it was |
18:04.23 | trepan | goes diggin' |
18:11.08 | CIA-88 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r20868 10/trunk/bzflag/TODO: Add recently discovered flag drop/passing issues to todo. |
18:11.16 | JefferyM | I added what we talked about to the todo |
18:11.23 | JefferyM | adding it to the wiki now |
18:11.27 | JefferyM | oh there's CIA |
18:11.29 | JefferyM | just a little slow |
18:11.53 | JefferyM | I think it's important to address it now before it gets broken more |
18:22.26 | CIA-88 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r6951 10/w/V3RCChecklist: Add info on flag pass feature, remove installer task as it is complete (enough) |
18:24.55 | JefferyM | now to get someone to actualy do it :) |
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20:57.29 | BulletCatcher | Tupone: I know it has been 6 years since r5767, but do you know why 4 trailing spaces are included in the screen resolution string in src/platform/SDLDisplay.cxx ? (search for sprintf) |
21:00.11 | blast007 | BulletCatcher: probably cuz of how Windows does stuff |
21:00.29 | JefferyM | we can change how windows does "stuff" |
21:00.30 | blast007 | the SDL stuff doesn't include color depth or refresh rate |
21:00.35 | JefferyM | yeah |
21:00.41 | JefferyM | tho we don't need it on windows anymore |
21:00.47 | JefferyM | we can just pick the highest |
21:01.01 | JefferyM | it's kinda silly to set refresh in a world where most displays are probably LCD |
21:01.37 | JefferyM | I'm also not sure why we don't default to desktop res |
21:01.58 | blast007 | picking the highest could lead to issues |
21:02.09 | blast007 | not all displays tell the system what they support |
21:02.16 | JefferyM | true |
21:02.38 | blast007 | or some LCDs will say they can do higher than optimal |
21:02.42 | JefferyM | I don't think we have to ask DX for refresh ether |
21:02.42 | blast007 | refresh rate, that is |
21:02.46 | JefferyM | we can just let it pick |
21:02.51 | Tupone | I think the space are for the refresh rate |
21:03.10 | blast007 | this LCD I'm on has 75Hz as an option, and that makes my eyes hurt ;) |
21:03.22 | JefferyM | heh |
21:03.32 | Tupone | but really is a long time ago |
21:03.33 | JefferyM | how often is the X11 stuff used? |
21:04.33 | JefferyM | cus we can just have it default to 60 |
21:04.41 | JefferyM | and let windows auto pick |
21:04.44 | blast007 | SDL? or X11? |
21:04.46 | JefferyM | then we don't need that field |
21:04.48 | JefferyM | X11 |
21:04.57 | JefferyM | SDL dosn't use refresh so if we remove it, it'll be fine :) |
21:05.02 | blast007 | :) |
21:05.24 | BulletCatcher | FWIW, removing it seems to work fine on Linux. |
21:05.31 | BulletCatcher | (removing the spaces) |
21:05.50 | JefferyM | I mean the resolution list with refreshes is a BIT insane ;) |
21:06.14 | JefferyM | it was fine when it went up to 800x600 as a max, but now it's silly |
21:06.15 | Tupone | BulletCatcher: even if you exit saving the choice and restarting? |
21:06.24 | BulletCatcher | Tupone: Yes. |
21:06.33 | JefferyM | it shluld just be a single list list item, not it's own display |
21:06.44 | Tupone | ok, maybe things changed, or I forgot why |
21:06.58 | blast007 | we could almost ditch the resolution menu and have the list of resolutions as a single item on the graphics settings menu |
21:07.08 | JefferyM | yeah that's what I'm sayin |
21:07.23 | blast007 | ah, missed the word "list" in your sentence ;) |
21:07.30 | JefferyM | or just make fullscreen == desktop res |
21:07.37 | JefferyM | and other reses = window :) |
21:07.51 | blast007 | well, I like having it separated |
21:07.59 | JefferyM | you can dynamicly resize the window now right? |
21:08.05 | blast007 | cuz I run my laptop at a lower resolution for bzflag cuz the video card sucks :P |
21:08.12 | JefferyM | ahh |
21:08.13 | JefferyM | ok |
21:08.14 | blast007 | s/card/chipset/ |
21:08.21 | JefferyM | if people still do that then we should change display res |
21:08.34 | JefferyM | I was just seeing if we could get away with not changing display res at all |
21:10.56 | BulletCatcher | One of you Windows guys, what does your config file have for the "set resolution" setting? |
21:11.07 | JefferyM | standby |
21:11.14 | BulletCatcher | The old way, on my system is: set resolution "1400x1050 " |
21:11.37 | JefferyM | set resolution "1680x1050 @61Hz 32 bits" |
21:12.07 | JefferyM | why the hell is it set to that?! |
21:12.55 | JefferyM | that's the size of display 2 |
21:13.03 | BulletCatcher | That comes from WinDisplay.cxx, so the way SDLDisplay.cxx works is irrelevant in that case. |
21:13.15 | JefferyM | yeah |
21:13.27 | JefferyM | don't make me go back in there :/ |
21:13.38 | JefferyM | fears code he wrote in 1997 |
21:14.30 | JefferyM | but if you wanted, windows could be made to only use the width and height |
21:14.36 | JefferyM | and we can auto the rest |
21:15.13 | JefferyM | mmmmm tomato soup :) |
21:15.58 | BulletCatcher | At this point, I am only interested in the SDL file. It sounds like there is no reason to keep the trailing spaces, so I'll update trunk and be done with it. |
21:16.23 | JefferyM | k |
21:16.41 | JefferyM | goes back to making an authentication scheeme |
21:18.41 | BulletCatcher | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=426011 has the background if anyone is interested. The patch they added to Fedora didn't seem to make a difference to the underlying problem. |
21:19.45 | JefferyM | is the problem that he has a crap chipset? |
21:20.18 | BulletCatcher | I'm not really sure, but SDL was returning an invalid resolution setting. |
21:20.25 | BulletCatcher | It isn't necessarily our problem to fix. |
21:20.39 | JefferyM | yeah |
21:20.50 | JefferyM | probably cus he has a crap driver for a crap chipset :) |
21:21.51 | BulletCatcher | My best idea for a workaround is to put a working resolution into the config file. |
21:22.28 | BulletCatcher | And eliminating those extra spaces will make that easier. |
21:23.01 | JefferyM | ahhh |
21:23.16 | JefferyM | "go spend 30$" is what I'd put |
21:23.20 | BulletCatcher | :-) |
21:23.24 | JefferyM | that's why you are the nicest dev :) |
21:26.39 | CIA-88 | BZFlag: 03bullet_catcher * r20869 10/trunk/bzflag/src/platform/ (LinuxDisplay.cxx SDLDisplay.cxx WinDisplay.cxx): For safety, use snprintf() instead of sprintf(). |
21:27.48 | CIA-88 | BZFlag: 03bullet_catcher * r20870 10/trunk/bzflag/src/platform/SDLDisplay.cxx: The trailing spaces in the display resolution string seem to be unnecessary. Remove them. |
21:28.40 | BulletCatcher | Thanks for your input, guys. |
21:29.22 | JefferyM | thanks for caring about an old fedora user :) |
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22:59.35 | JefferyM | Somethin' evil's watching over you. Commin' from the sky above, there's nothin' you can do. Prepare to strike there's no place to run..... |
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