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| 00:12.27 | JeffM2501 | mmmm new hard drive smell |
| 00:13.04 | blast007 | JeffM2501: maybe you know this. Is there a vector format of the BZFlag icon? |
| 00:13.17 | JeffM2501 | saturos has an SVG IIRC |
| 00:13.34 | JeffM2501 | but I don't think it's in the tree |
| 00:13.44 | blast007 | k |
| 00:14.02 | JeffM2501 | uggg, hour and 15 min to copy the old drive :( |
| 00:15.07 | Gabe_G23 | :P Can't wait till USB 3.0? :D |
| 00:15.50 | JeffM2501 | I think it's using USB1.1 |
| 00:15.59 | blast007 | eek |
| 00:16.33 | JeffM2501 | well I'll just let it go, not like I have another option |
| 00:16.51 | Gabe_G23 | Lol |
| 00:17.48 | L4m3r | I found 1.4TB of old drives the other day |
| 00:17.56 | L4m3r | unfortunately it is 7x200GB >_< |
| 00:18.05 | JeffM2501 | ouch |
| 00:18.06 | Gabe_G23 | LULZ |
| 00:18.17 | JeffM2501 | still decently usefull |
| 00:18.20 | L4m3r | yeah |
| 00:18.23 | Gabe_G23 | Yeah, I wouldn't mind one :( |
| 00:18.32 | L4m3r | I've got an ATA card- gonna stick 'em all in a big server probably |
| 00:18.32 | Gabe_G23 | I have my FreeBSD on 40 GB :| |
| 00:18.36 | JeffM2501 | I can't really complain about the time, the drive was nearly full |
| 00:18.41 | JeffM2501 | 3 gigs left |
| 00:18.59 | L4m3r | I'm in a similar spot, tho I have a 500GB external to dump stuff on |
| 00:19.09 | Gabe_G23 | Nice |
| 00:19.17 | L4m3r | and soon I'll have ~1TB of file server space anyway. yay for raid |
| 00:19.27 | Gabe_G23 | Although it's always nice to have a level playing ground (1 TB space on main, 1 TB to back up for example) |
| 00:19.58 | L4m3r | need a new case for the drives, though, lol. the rackmount server case I've got only holds 2 HDDs |
| 00:20.33 | Think_Differentl | my largest drive is 250GB, but I use my 60GB deathstar the most |
| 00:20.59 | Think_Differentl | I really should buy another, since they're getting so cheap. |
| 00:21.07 | L4m3r | I think I've got enough parts laying around for a whole computer |
| 00:21.35 | L4m3r | I'll probably send it home to my mother for use as an HTPC or something... found a Rage All-in-Wonder Pro :D |
| 00:22.00 | L4m3r | or maybe I can use it here to run my projector. hm... |
| 00:22.19 | Gabe_G23 | :O |
| 00:22.34 | L4m3r | oooh, that might actually work! |
| 00:22.51 | JeffM2501 | heh, I'm only duping from a 20 gig drive |
| 00:22.56 | L4m3r | lol |
| 00:23.10 | Winny | I have too many hard drives... 2 500's 3 250s, a couple 160s, an 80 |
| 00:23.26 | L4m3r | yeah, since I rig the projector next to the bed, I could stick the box under the bed and the cable would be able to reach it |
| 00:23.34 | L4m3r | laying in bed watching TV on the ceiling is AWESOME |
| 00:23.39 | Think_Differentl | has a 250, 60, 2x10, 1x1.3GB |
| 00:23.56 | Think_Differentl | but since my board only has one IDE connector, the 60 and the 250 are used. |
| 00:24.19 | JeffM2501 | this thing will only take a 20,60,or 120 |
| 00:24.38 | Winny | oh, and a 320 |
| 00:24.42 | Winny | forgot about that |
| 00:24.56 | Think_Differentl | is thinking about 750 for /home and OS on the 250 |
| 00:26.13 | L4m3r | JeffM2501: what system is it? |
| 00:26.20 | JeffM2501 | a 360 |
| 00:26.43 | JeffM2501 | 20 gig ain't enough when you are renting HD movies |
| 00:26.50 | JeffM2501 | and fry's had 120's for 129 |
| 00:27.22 | Think_Differentl | 129 is a but much for 120 |
| 00:27.32 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 00:27.40 | JeffM2501 | if it was just a drive |
| 00:27.53 | JeffM2501 | it's the entire package needed, case, transfer cable, etc.. |
| 00:28.05 | JeffM2501 | the xbox ain't exactly made for user serviceable parts ;) |
| 00:28.06 | L4m3r | retail boxed drive? |
| 00:28.10 | Think_Differentl | you can't just swap the drive into the case that comes with the xbox? |
| 00:28.10 | L4m3r | ah, I see |
| 00:28.14 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 00:28.20 | Think_Differentl | i've heard stories of that, or so I think |
| 00:28.21 | JeffM2501 | the bios only sees the 3 drives they make |
| 00:28.26 | Winny | Think_Differentl: this is microsoft :) |
| 00:28.27 | L4m3r | ouch |
| 00:28.28 | JeffM2501 | you can if you find that exact drive |
| 00:28.34 | JeffM2501 | or mod the xbox |
| 00:28.44 | JeffM2501 | now it will see ANY usb drive for other media |
| 00:28.57 | JeffM2501 | so mp3's and all that jazz are on a 500 |
| 00:29.07 | JeffM2501 | this is the game storage drive |
| 00:29.23 | JeffM2501 | it used to be like 200$ |
| 00:29.28 | JeffM2501 | 129 aint' THAT bad |
| 00:29.56 | JeffM2501 | they do sell used 20's at gamestop, I may pick one up to see whats in it :) |
| 00:30.27 | Think_Differentl | might as well buy a 20 and open it up and try |
| 00:30.34 | Think_Differentl | you never know |
| 00:30.40 | JeffM2501 | exactly |
| 00:31.07 | JeffM2501 | transfering the data is the big thing to me tho, and this has the cable and software to do it |
| 00:31.38 | JeffM2501 | and it'll keep my live ID, etc.. |
| 00:48.04 | delusional | ~lart me |
| 00:48.04 | ibot | drops a humongous exploding nuke on delusional |
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| 00:57.19 | Gabe_G23 | delusional: :O |
| 00:57.53 | delusional | I need my leewzer attitude readjusted frequently. |
| 00:58.17 | delusional | preferred tool:Hammer |
| 01:12.02 | spldart | OMG-LOLz 200g drives being dismissed outta hand in heyah :( |
| 01:12.24 | spldart | my tb server aint nuthin any more :(* |
| 01:13.40 | delusional | spldart needs 3-d holographic storage |
| 01:14.15 | spldart | Heh |
| 01:14.36 | spldart | I'm at the point were my home fileserver needs to up to 3tb or so.. maybe 4 |
| 01:15.02 | spldart | But futuristic holo storage ftw |
| 01:15.29 | delusional | good thing we have the means to store info microscopically, or our records would soon overrun the world. |
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| 01:21.34 | spldart | Yay... the world overun ;) |
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| 01:42.54 | nijineko | waves |
| 01:43.14 | nijineko | anyone about? |
| 01:44.12 | Winny | nope |
| 01:44.36 | nijineko | all playing, i imagine then. ^^ |
| 01:45.11 | Winny | no, just not here |
| 01:45.21 | Winny | very few people in here play on a regular basis I'd imagine |
| 01:45.27 | nijineko | interesting. |
| 01:45.59 | nijineko | i was poking about trying to find a gui world editor and thought i'd wander through here and see if anyone knew of one.... |
| 01:46.12 | Winny | well |
| 01:46.25 | Winny | there's iBZEdit, a non-official editor for OS X if you're on a mac |
| 01:46.45 | Winny | then there's BZEdit Win32, which is a windows editor that only supports 1.0 objects |
| 01:46.48 | JeffM2501 | there are many, they all have limitations |
| 01:47.01 | Winny | BZWorkBench was never finished, and is sitting waiting to be |
| 01:47.02 | JeffM2501 | so it depends on what you want to do with them |
| 01:47.20 | Winny | no matter what map you make you're probably going to need to do some sort of hand editing |
| 01:47.25 | nijineko | ^^ i see, wow, even with google i haven't stumbled across any of those, nor found mention in the wiki yet... |
| 01:47.26 | Winny | be it for the config, or materials |
| 01:47.34 | Gabe_G23 | there's also blender :P |
| 01:47.46 | nijineko | gotcha, well i can handle tweaking, it's the coding from scratch that overwhelms me. |
| 01:47.59 | nijineko | you can use blender? |
| 01:48.05 | JeffM2501 | it all comes down to what you want to do in your maps |
| 01:48.07 | Winny | Gabe_G23: even then you gotta edit by hand usually |
| 01:48.08 | Winny | if not always |
| 01:48.10 | nijineko | cool... didn't know that. |
| 01:48.12 | JeffM2501 | do you want th 2.0 features |
| 01:48.14 | Gabe_G23 | I never said you don't. |
| 01:48.19 | Gabe_G23 | But Blender is also an alternative. ;) |
| 01:48.20 | delusional | look for blender on the wiki |
| 01:48.33 | nijineko | i do already have blender |
| 01:48.38 | Winny | blender is a 3rd party program that simply uses plugins to export in BZW format |
| 01:48.46 | nijineko | ah, i'll need the plugins then. |
| 01:49.11 | nijineko | i am on a mac... and thank you for the channel note, i'll wander over there too. |
| 01:49.39 | Winny | to which channel? |
| 01:50.14 | nijineko | someone mentioned the ##bzw channel |
| 01:50.27 | Winny | ah, ok |
| 01:52.05 | nijineko | i am not yet familiar enough with the differences between the 1.0 and 2.0 features... what was added? |
| 01:52.19 | JeffM2501 | meshes, textures, zones, drivers, |
| 01:52.21 | JeffM2501 | many things |
| 01:52.23 | JeffM2501 | groups |
| 01:52.33 | nijineko | ah, that is quite a bit. |
| 01:52.41 | JeffM2501 | indeed |
| 01:52.56 | nijineko | i would be interested, how will that limit my options, please? |
| 01:53.08 | JeffM2501 | most editors don't do meshes |
| 01:53.23 | JeffM2501 | nor textures |
| 01:53.34 | JeffM2501 | most just do the box/pryamid/teleporter stuff |
| 01:53.35 | nijineko | mesh being the framework body the textures are placed ontop of, yes? |
| 01:54.00 | JeffM2501 | mesh being an arbitrary 3d structure defined by points and faces |
| 01:54.34 | JeffM2501 | matterials are nother 2.0 feature, but can be applied to more primitives then just meshes |
| 01:55.56 | nijineko | ah, yes... i am rather inspired by what mofo and louman have done with the maps. |
| 01:57.20 | nijineko | so, then assuming that i am after the 2.0, as it sounds i would be, once i get the basics down... what do i need to look for in an editor, please? |
| 01:58.04 | JeffM2501 | there is no editor that fully supports all 2.0 features |
| 01:58.07 | JeffM2501 | blender come close |
| 01:58.24 | JeffM2501 | but no mater what, to take full advantage of stuff you'll be doing some stuff by hand |
| 01:58.54 | nijineko | i'm fine with that, just so long as i'm more tweaking and adding specials rather than doing everything from scratch by hand. ^^ |
| 01:59.14 | JeffM2501 | then blender will have the most features for you |
| 01:59.25 | JeffM2501 | other then that, cus you are on a mac, ibzedit would be your only other choice |
| 01:59.36 | JeffM2501 | but we did not write that nor support it |
| 01:59.51 | nijineko | do you know of any specific reason why the tanks do not (cannot?) rotate or spin? |
| 02:00.20 | nijineko | so i've found by reading up on it. thank you for the tip. =D |
| 02:01.12 | JeffM2501 | you mean tilt up and down? |
| 02:01.20 | JeffM2501 | like drive up a hill? |
| 02:01.31 | nijineko | well, the tanks turn around the z axis, but not around the x or y |
| 02:01.40 | JeffM2501 | because the game is not writen to do that |
| 02:01.40 | nijineko | pretty much |
| 02:01.49 | nijineko | ahah. built in limitation of the game then. |
| 02:01.57 | JeffM2501 | design choice |
| 02:01.58 | JeffM2501 | not limit |
| 02:02.05 | nijineko | noted. |
| 02:02.11 | JeffM2501 | we didn't "turn off" anything |
| 02:02.30 | nijineko | i did not mean limit in that sense. ^^ just that it was not designed to do that. |
| 02:02.50 | JeffM2501 | bzflag is meant to be simple |
| 02:02.57 | nijineko | nods |
| 02:03.18 | nijineko | that answers why not different types of tanks then. ^^ |
| 02:03.51 | nijineko | is that also an inherently non-doable thing due to design choice of the core code? |
| 02:04.06 | JeffM2501 | both |
| 02:04.19 | JeffM2501 | the tank model is hardcoded |
| 02:04.31 | JeffM2501 | bzflag is not exactly a new game |
| 02:05.09 | nijineko | no it's not. i've been playing it for a long time now... but only recently become interested in design... mostly for purposes of 3d modling and level design and the like. |
| 02:05.21 | nijineko | modeling* |
| 02:05.55 | nijineko | i've noticed that the flags can change the tank shape... is that a mathmatical calculation, or a different model? |
| 02:06.19 | nijineko | or that's more of a size change, i guess. ^^ |
| 02:06.25 | JeffM2501 | just a scale factor |
| 02:06.45 | JeffM2501 | there are 3 models harcoded, all just different LODs of the same tank |
| 02:06.47 | nijineko | ahah. you are being very helpful! thank you so very much, for being so free to answer my questions. |
| 02:07.11 | nijineko | 3 models... is that the tiny, the obese, and the normal tank? |
| 02:07.16 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 02:07.17 | JeffM2501 | LOD |
| 02:07.23 | JeffM2501 | hightank, medtank, and lotank |
| 02:07.27 | JeffM2501 | they are all the same size |
| 02:07.41 | JeffM2501 | all the flags do is just scale it by a factor |
| 02:08.14 | JeffM2501 | LOD = level of detail, a lower polycount tank is used for further away tanks |
| 02:08.16 | nijineko | high, med, lo.... rendering versions? depending on how the settings are? |
| 02:08.22 | JeffM2501 | cus they are samller in pixels |
| 02:08.23 | JeffM2501 | that too |
| 02:08.30 | JeffM2501 | low mode only uses lowtank |
| 02:08.39 | JeffM2501 | high uses all 3 |
| 02:08.54 | nijineko | ah that is slick... and makes perfect sense. only use high res when needed. |
| 02:09.11 | JeffM2501 | it was done for performance reasons |
| 02:09.20 | JeffM2501 | it dosn't mater much on current systems |
| 02:09.34 | JeffM2501 | there is less then 100 poly's difference between the high and low |
| 02:09.51 | JeffM2501 | it used to matter for software rendering systems back in the day |
| 02:09.59 | nijineko | wow. that isn't much on todays machines. but still. good design philo. |
| 02:10.19 | JeffM2501 | if the model dosn't change we'll probably pull it |
| 02:10.38 | JeffM2501 | it's not like we care if it dosn't run well on a 486 anymore |
| 02:10.54 | JeffM2501 | or an old G3 |
| 02:10.58 | nijineko | well, since i'm on an intel mac, i could use mac, pc, or *nix editors, technically. |
| 02:11.09 | nijineko | i shall. |
| 02:11.17 | JeffM2501 | they all still have the same limits |
| 02:11.27 | JeffM2501 | bzedit on windows only does 1.10 objects |
| 02:11.37 | nijineko | mmmmmm... |
| 02:11.39 | JeffM2501 | bzfed on linux does too |
| 02:11.43 | JeffM2501 | pybzedit is a joke |
| 02:11.52 | nijineko | thank you both, jeffm2501 and delusional |
| 02:12.09 | nijineko | looks like blender is goign to be the platform of choice... |
| 02:12.13 | nijineko | going* |
| 02:12.36 | nijineko | did my registration lapse again? aw nuts. |
| 02:13.51 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 02:14.32 | nijineko | ah, returning comment to delusional |
| 02:17.06 | nijineko | thank you again, jeffm2501 |
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| 07:33.31 | brlcad | pokes in and waves |
| 07:48.57 | Constitution | waves back |
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| 15:01.20 | brlcad | :) |
| 15:02.24 | Winny | :o |
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| 15:29.13 | Winny | ahhh |
| 15:29.29 | Winny | I'm ready to go to the conservative headquarters and break their phone machine |
| 15:29.45 | Winny | we've been getting automated campaign calls for the last 5 hours every 10 minutes |
| 15:34.12 | Winny | we won;t vote for you, go away |
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| 15:44.48 | dexter- | Winny, tell them you will :) |
| 15:44.58 | Winny | dexter-: it's automated |
| 15:45.08 | dexter- | oh |
| 15:45.10 | Winny | it's a recording of a person |
| 15:45.11 | dexter- | right :P |
| 15:45.21 | Winny | seems to of stopped... *crosses fingers* |
| 15:45.41 | dexter- | disconnect the phones or something, he |
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| 16:18.45 | red-der | i got sometimes the following message (multiple times) while im playing/ watching as observer: "local collision with 8848 from..." Does someone know something about that? |
| 16:22.02 | Abominable | red-der are you using a normal client? |
| 16:23.04 | red-der | normal, precompiled windows client |
| 16:23.44 | red-der | i made a screeshot of it: http://img227.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=28067_bzfi0030_122_123lo.jpg |
| 16:24.23 | Abominable | Hmm |
| 16:25.17 | Abominable | I've never seen that before, JeffM and blast may know. |
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| 16:25.30 | Abominable | I don't want to tell you something false. |
| 16:25.34 | BulletCatcher | That message comes from playing.cxx, but I haven't figured out what it means yet. |
| 16:25.54 | red-der | some weeks ago i told it benfish - its on one of his maps im admining on - but I didnt get a feedback since than |
| 16:27.57 | red-der | if it depends on something server-side it happend on Incomming / 03.bztank.net |
| 16:28.55 | BulletCatcher | It's a client side message you should see only when you are "driving with" a tank in observer mode. |
| 16:29.21 | Chestal | red-der: you enabled the extended obvserver info. IIRC that message means that from your point of view a shot hit the player |
| 16:30.18 | red-der | the sense of it is - more or less - clear to me (and im driving with and with ext. info) - but i dont know why it only sometimes shows |
| 16:31.39 | Chestal | well, it wil obviously only show when your client perceives shot+tank at same location |
| 16:31.41 | red-der | @chestal: do you mean it not shows if im hit, only if im hit "right in the face" i.e. I see that shot comming? |
| 16:32.43 | Chestal | red-der: no, I assume the message will be displayed if shot and player (you are driving with) are within tankRadius |
| 16:33.16 | Chestal | red-der: which would be a hit and death. However, the situatin might look slightly different from the actual view of the tank you observe due to network latency |
| 16:34.00 | red-der | ok, i got it now. but why havent I seen this message on any other map? |
| 16:34.54 | Chestal | no idea, maybe your lag is higher there? |
| 16:35.32 | red-der | no, my lag is really good there |
| 16:36.04 | Chestal | it should happen on all server every now and then |
| 16:36.42 | Chestal | if the person in question is using a tivial cheat it will happen all the time (not saying this is the case here) |
| 16:36.55 | red-der | ok, maybe it is because im mostly observing on this map |
| 16:37.06 | red-der | i didnt thought about cheating |
| 16:37.32 | red-der | but since im admining and starting a server, i look more into such things |
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| 16:37.42 | red-der | but thanks for clearing this up |
| 16:38.13 | Chestal | red-der: if the person is not moving at all and these messages come, something is obviously fishy. Otherwise, it's usually hard to tell |
| 16:39.55 | red-der | i will watch it next time |
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| 22:06.52 | JeffM | redoes the sound system cus he's tool lazy to setup a debug server on mirkwood |
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| 23:12.32 | Winny | I ate too much turkey |
| 23:12.34 | Winny | don't poke me |
| 23:13.06 | JeffM | ibot: poke Winny |
| 23:13.07 | ibot | ACTION cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind Winny, pokes Winny repeatedly, hilarity ensues. |
| 23:13.29 | Winny | ;( |
| 23:26.02 | blast007 | lol |
| 23:28.31 | delusional | is this a good idea? a spawn radius variable for the antidote flag. |
| 23:29.00 | JeffM | does it even spawn? or dosn't it just asign a random flag to be the "antidote"? |
| 23:29.02 | delusional | can remove the bad flag drop timer if the antidote is closer to the tank when it spawns |
| 23:29.32 | delusional | dont ask me |
| 23:30.03 | JeffM | why not? you are the one that is asking if something should be done based on some set of behavor, we'd assume you'd done your research first ;) |
| 23:30.22 | JeffM | your actualy the BEST person to ask, since it's on your mind at this time |
| 23:30.25 | delusional | takes a bath |
| 23:31.46 | blast007 | JeffM: the client just generates a local flag at a random place on the ground |
| 23:31.58 | JeffM | ahh |
| 23:32.05 | JeffM | then yeah a bzdb var for that would be good |
| 23:32.19 | blast007 | found that out when people had issues with maps covering the entire ground |
| 23:32.20 | JeffM | we should generate the flag on the server and send it to just that one client |
| 23:32.36 | blast007 | (locks up the client because it's trying to find a place) |
| 23:32.38 | JeffM | then do it as a player only flag and still do server pickup on it |
| 23:33.54 | JeffM | or be mean and send it to everyone ;) |
| 23:34.08 | JeffM | then if it got picked up... :) |
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| 23:47.15 | delusional | Glad you like it, too. |
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