IRC log for #bzflag on 20081002

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01:53.16F687sNot sure if anyone cares, but if you start SD while stopped, and then move, it'll still SD.
01:54.05F687s(2008/10/01 rev.)
01:55.42blast007heh
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02:59.55javawizard2539what the
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04:17.07CIA-48BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r18679 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/webadmin/templates/Kicks.page: add kick page
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09:28.06rat[tkin]... anyone here? (however silly it may sound)
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16:42.27MindstormsKidthis is insane
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16:43.24MindstormsKidwas anyone on last night and saw the cheater impersonate people?
16:44.00MindstormsKidi wasn't :/
16:44.07JeffMwith or with out a +?
16:44.39MindstormsKidfrom what i heard, he had marzi's password
16:44.54Cobra_Fasto.o
16:45.05JeffMthen that is not impersonating, that is someone with a weakpassword
16:45.17MindstormsKidand marzi changed his nick :/
16:45.22Cobra_Fastdid anyone inform marzi about?
16:45.28Cobra_Fastok
16:45.35MindstormsKidJeffM: ...
16:45.47*** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-072-012.ewe-ip-backbone.de)
16:45.59MindstormsKidbut anyway, he did it with many people's accounts
16:46.00JeffMpeople are stupid sometimes, it happens
16:46.05JeffMdoubtfull
16:46.46MindstormsKidO_O
16:46.56MindstormsKidbucko was there, he told me today
16:47.20MindstormsKidit was i want a ak-47
16:47.58Cobra_Fastis there a security hole in the users database?
16:48.17Cobra_Fastso some evil guys could have hacked it?
16:48.43MindstormsKidone person
16:49.15Cobra_Fasti think this is a problem considering to everyone
16:49.29Cobra_Fastcause i dont think marzi had a weak password
16:49.33MindstormsKidnope
16:49.55MindstormsKidi saw him once before without the right password, but with marzi's name
16:50.13JeffMdid any of them use a server that uses /identify?
16:50.32MindstormsKidumm
16:50.35MindstormsKidno idea..
16:50.38JeffMusers that change names offten can have there names stolen, it's easy
16:50.50MindstormsKidummmm
16:51.10JeffMCobra_Fast, no
16:51.17JeffMit's just idiots
16:51.19Cobra_Fastwhat no
16:51.20MindstormsKid:O
16:51.33MindstormsKidyou suck, JeffM
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16:51.38JeffMwe have never found a security hole in "the user dataase"
16:51.38Cobra_FastO.O
16:51.51Cobra_Fasthmm
16:51.57JeffMevery case has been someone doing something stupid with there account
16:52.01Cobra_Fastisnt it possible that someone found one?
16:52.07JeffMit's sad, but it's true, people are not always carefull
16:52.11JeffMsure it's possible
16:52.22JeffMbut its' MUCH More likely that something else happend
16:52.25Cobra_Fastwhy are you that sure that it didnt happen?
16:52.31JeffMI am not
16:52.38JeffMI am making educated gueses
16:52.57Cobra_Fastmaybe you research a bit before saying its impossible
16:53.02JeffMcus if someone COULD get any username/password from the dataase they woudl not much around with those accounts
16:53.05JeffMthey would hit the admins
16:53.22Cobra_Fastmaybe not
16:53.23JeffMI didn't say it was impossible, I am saying it's highly unlikely
16:53.36Cobra_Fasta hacker would be stupid if he directly grabs an admins account
16:53.46JeffMand that on the flipside do some research to see if the actual person affected did something bad
16:53.58Cobra_Fasthmm
16:54.00JeffMyou don't KNOW that the password was strong, or didn't get out
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16:54.07JeffMjust as I don't know that it wasn't "hacked"
16:54.22JeffMso you research the most common things first
16:54.27JeffMtha'ts all I'm saying
16:54.33Cobra_Fasthmm
16:54.37JeffMbefore you you go around and shout "HACKER"
16:54.46Cobra_Fasthmmmmm
16:54.51Cobra_Fastwell okay
16:54.55JeffMhas the affected user EVER changed there username in bzbb?
16:55.07JeffMbecause that is the simplest way to get a name stolen
16:55.07Cobra_Fastthen go for it and ask around affected people about their password
16:55.29JeffMall I've got is mindstormskid giving off random conjecture and FUD
16:55.44JeffMdid anyone here actualy SEE anything happen?
16:55.55Cobra_Fastwell i think its okay if you say "one person had a weak pw"
16:56.04JeffMmany people have them
16:56.12Cobra_Fastbut if there are more people saying "someone did evil things to me"
16:56.12JeffMit is the most common cause of these types of things
16:56.20JeffMthe other is username changes
16:56.28Cobra_Fasti never did
16:56.31JeffMCobra_Fast, who are they? get them in here? lets talk to them
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16:56.46Cobra_Fasti dont know any affected people
16:56.57Cobra_Fasti just know what mindstormkid said
16:56.59JeffMso then you don't even know what happend
16:57.03JeffMsee FUD ;)
16:57.07Cobra_Fast:)
16:57.34Cobra_Fastmaybe mindstormkid himself is the evil guy in this story
16:57.36Cobra_Fasto.o
16:57.46JeffMstranger thngs have happend
16:58.07JeffMbut it is more then likley the simple overreactions of a child to a case of poor user management
16:58.31Cobra_Fastyeah
16:58.45L4m3rOh noez! h4x0rs! :P
16:58.49JeffMexactly
16:58.59JeffMthe most common thing I find is, people like to change names
16:59.08Cobra_Fasti dont like to
16:59.12L4m3rwhat happened exactly?
16:59.17Cobra_Fasti like the nickname i have
16:59.19Cobra_Fast<- <3
16:59.19JeffMwhen they do that, it lets another user with an authed account, change his name to be the users old name
16:59.33JeffMyet you change it to cobra slow here ;)
16:59.42Cobra_Fastoh no
16:59.47Cobra_Fastwhat a security risk
16:59.55Cobra_Fasti need to remove my bouncer
16:59.57Cobra_Fast:/
17:00.00JeffMI'm just saying, people do that in game
17:00.10JeffMand that dosn't protect the old name from being taken
17:00.16Cobra_Fastyeah
17:00.18L4m3rit'd be nice to allow a couple of linked names like Freenode does... but that'd take some reworking of the auth system
17:00.19Cobra_Fastthats right
17:00.24JeffMso while it looks like the accoutn is "stolen"
17:00.25Cobra_Fastbut the bzid doesnt change, does it?
17:00.26JeffMit is not
17:00.38JeffMit is just a different account with a +
17:00.43JeffMyeah the bzid does not change
17:00.47JeffMbut people don't look at that
17:01.00JeffMthey just see the + and someone shouting that the name was "hacked"
17:01.02Cobra_Fastand global group rights are granted to the bzid
17:01.04L4m3rdoes bzfs even look at that?
17:01.05Cobra_Fastnot the callsign
17:01.07L4m3rhm...
17:01.08Cobra_Fastas far as i know
17:01.13JeffMgroups are ID yeah
17:01.14Cobra_Fastso where is the problem?
17:01.16L4m3rdoes the token give a BZID?
17:01.23JeffML4m3r, yeah it can
17:01.36JeffMCobra_Fast, from a security standpoint, nothing
17:01.55JeffMfrom a social standpoint, people freak cus they don't understand what is going on
17:02.03L4m3rID10T error
17:02.05L4m3r;)
17:02.08Cobra_Fastits just people crying 'round "gnaaaah this evild dude stole my callsign :'("
17:02.09JeffMbasicly means the user just lost that name
17:02.29JeffMCobra_Fast, you mean sort of like what mindstormskid did when he came here this morning? ;)
17:02.40Cobra_Fastyou mean evening
17:02.43Cobra_Fastits 7 pm
17:02.52JeffM10AM
17:02.57Cobra_Fast7 pm !!!!
17:02.58Cobra_Fast:P
17:03.00JeffMUPT
17:03.06JeffMUniversal personal time
17:03.13Cobra_Fastidk
17:03.17Cobra_FastI Dont Know
17:03.24JeffMI know you don't it's ok
17:03.30Cobra_Fast:)
17:03.34JeffMbut that is the most common thing
17:03.43JeffMthe others are /identify servers
17:03.47Cobra_Fasti have CET
17:03.49JeffMand webscams
17:03.51Cobra_FastCentral European Time
17:04.01JeffMUPT is "The time where you are" ;)
17:04.06Cobra_Fastaaahh
17:04.11Cobra_Fastso i also have it?
17:04.13Cobra_Fastcool
17:04.13Cobra_Fast:D
17:04.16JeffMindeed
17:05.02Cobra_Fasthmm Jeffm did you ever play 'round with samba on linux machines?
17:05.11JeffMhuh?
17:05.15Cobra_Fastyeah
17:05.20Cobra_Fastok you did not
17:06.52JeffMI rarely use linux
17:07.04Cobra_Fasti love it
17:07.07Cobra_Fastmore than windows
17:07.10JeffMI'm sure you do
17:07.25Cobra_Fastbut samba really freaks me out
17:07.32Cobra_Fastits not doing what its supposed to be
17:07.49JeffM#samba would be best for it I feel
17:09.06Cobra_Fasti got people helping me but nothing is really working
17:09.15Cobra_Fastits really ... confusing
17:09.41JeffMthats why you hire IT guys
17:10.05Cobra_Fasthehe yep
17:10.15Cobra_Fasti want to be one after school lol
17:10.37JeffMthen you should probalby read up and learn samba ;)
17:10.58Cobra_Fastyeah
17:11.02L4m3ror find a protocol that doesn't suffer from Windows dumbness
17:11.11Cobra_Fasthehe ;D
17:11.19L4m3rI'm sure there are plenty of other ways to mount network directories
17:11.29Cobra_Fastthe stupid thing is that im actually using windows here
17:11.30Cobra_Fast:/
17:11.46Cobra_Fastand need to get my files saved somewhere withe easyness
17:11.51L4m3rand people suspect M$ of deliberately tweaking their network sharing system to break Samba
17:11.56Cobra_Fastcause my hard disk will explode soon
17:12.03Cobra_Fastits like 99% full
17:12.47JeffMghost it to a larger drive
17:13.04Cobra_Fastwhere should i get a larger drive from?
17:13.09Cobra_Fastno money
17:13.16JeffMthen get a job ;)
17:13.21JeffMlaws always need mowin
17:13.29Cobra_Fastjob
17:13.32Cobra_Fastwhats that?
17:13.36Cobra_Fastcan you eat it?
17:13.44JeffMsomething that gives you hard drives
17:13.48L4m3rJeffM: if only congress mowed laws more often ;)
17:14.05L4m3rI've only got 160GB in each system... I find that by the time that starts to fill up, it's time for a format anyway
17:14.35JeffML4m3r, actualy it's the homeowners that should have, so they could have paid there bills.
17:14.51L4m3rmy desktop is full, for instance, but I cannot install Inkscape or my school's VPN client, or Google Chrome
17:14.59L4m3rso, time for a wipe!
17:15.17L4m3rJeffM: I meant more generally
17:15.38JeffML4m3r, as did I, them is us.
17:15.40JeffM;)
17:15.53L4m3rAnd I'd say some fault is on the banks for the mortgage fiasco also
17:16.01JeffMthere are many fualts
17:16.04JeffMall over the place
17:16.11L4m3rafter all, most homeowners only screwed up one mortgage. the banks, on the other hand... :P
17:16.35L4m3ris glad he doesn't own a home
17:16.40JeffMindeed
17:16.44JeffMimplements a kick page
17:17.01JeffMwhat dod you think one kick button per player? or checkboxes and one single kick button for all?
17:17.25L4m3ryou'd have to click once per player anyway
17:17.31L4m3rso buttons :P
17:17.41JeffMbut that's a reload between each click
17:17.46L4m3roh, hm
17:18.48L4m3ryeah, probably checkboxes
17:22.07JeffMhmm I need to come up with a GUID for players
17:22.19JeffMI don't think I want to kick or ban per slot
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17:26.19L4m3rwhy not?
17:26.58JeffMwhat if you load the page
17:27.01JeffMget a slot number
17:27.04JeffMwait some tme
17:27.08JeffMuser leaves
17:27.15JeffMnew user joins
17:27.19JeffMyou click kick
17:27.24JeffMand kick the new user
17:27.28JeffMnot the old user
17:27.43JeffMthen you've kicked the wrong guy
17:27.52JeffMI need a way to make sure that the dude is still in that slot
17:29.58JeffMbe cool if we had a GUID per join
17:30.10JeffMmaybe I'll add that
17:31.54L4m3rjust have the session cache the callsign of the user
17:32.04JeffMof all users?
17:32.10L4m3rcallsign + slot number is unique enough
17:32.16JeffMprobably
17:32.23L4m3rfor the duration of the page use
17:32.34L4m3ryou can dump the list once the admin submits the kick list
17:32.57JeffMit's the same thing as building up an ID
17:32.58L4m3ror you could make some fancy ajax stuff to keep the list current. Then you could use buttons too :D
17:33.02JeffMno
17:33.05L4m3rlol
17:33.21JeffMajax is client side? or server side?
17:33.32L4m3rmostly client side
17:33.37L4m3rserver just has to send data
17:33.42JeffMthis isn't a php page
17:33.51JeffMso I am somewhat limited in what third party tech I can use
17:34.53L4m3rI haven't done enough dynamic web stuff to know how nontrivial it is to send the data
17:35.35JeffMI think what I"ll do is send the bzID as the key if they are gloabal authed, if not build one up based on slot and callsign
17:35.49JeffMthen just make sure that it's the same when the action happens
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18:21.53CIA-48BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r18680 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/webadmin/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
18:21.53CIA-48BZFlag: Fill in callsign, BZID, GUID, and IP in the player loopCallback
18:21.53CIA-48BZFlag: add Kick page.
18:21.53CIA-48BZFlag: add Kick action.
18:24.35SportChicklooks around for brlcad
18:27.01brlcadel no se encuentra
18:33.52SportChicktackles brlcad
18:35.13KTLthe stl has the concept of a container but does it have an interface for it?
18:35.49JeffMKTL, what do you mean?
18:36.14KTLi wanted to write a very generic class that uses a container
18:36.23JeffMwhat kind of container?
18:36.28JeffMvector? list, map?
18:36.32KTLwell i want to keep that unspecified
18:36.52KTLi thought about using a generic interface for them instead
18:36.52JeffMthen template the templates :)
18:37.07JeffMnot all containers have the same acessors
18:37.13JeffMlike list dosn't have []
18:37.33JeffMthey all have iterators tho
18:37.49KTLiterator and const_iterator ? most of them have that >?
18:37.56KTLh
18:37.59KTLmmm
18:38.00JeffMall the generic algorythms that work on any container all work on iterators
18:38.07JeffMyeah they all have those
18:38.35JeffMstd::find for instance takes 2 iterators and a "thing"
18:38.41KTLwell ... where is the container interface defined if there is one?
18:38.45KTLi cant find the include
18:39.00JeffMit's the iterator
18:39.09KTLaaaaaaaa
18:39.19JeffMthe iterator IS that interface
18:39.25JeffMit dosn't do all things
18:39.56KTLbut then i need to pass a end to to know when to stop
18:40.01JeffMyes
18:40.13JeffMlook at the stadnard algos
18:40.18JeffMthey take a start and an end
18:41.49KTLok, i will use iterators instead, thans :)
18:41.55KTL+k
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19:25.32AAA_awrightJeffM: Why not use a UUID for each session?
19:26.23AAA_awrightA timestamped UUID would allow clients to see when the client joined too
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19:50.44JeffMAAA_awright, that's what I was talking bout, keep an ID per join
19:53.37JeffMhah, the dude wrote a full ban page, and there isn't even a way to iterate the bans lists!
19:54.37AAA_awrightJeffM: Unique meaning across time and space. A concatenation of callsign and slot doesn't fit that... Also, I am talking about building this into the protocol, which of course isn't the case at this point
19:54.49JeffMAAA_awright, I know this is just cheeze fo now
19:55.15JeffMwhat you are saying is what I was thinking of
19:55.20JeffMbut not what I implemented for now
19:55.21AAA_awrightlibuuid
19:55.57JeffMI'd like to get the guts framed out first, then see what we can do better in a refactor pass
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20:12.59SportChicktackles Erroneous
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20:20.45CIA-48BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r18681 10/trunk/bzflag/ (4 files in 2 dirs): add iteration access to the various ban lists.
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22:09.39brlcadhowdies SportChick
22:09.58SportChicktackles brlcad and points him to his query window
22:11.22brlcadshuns the window and huggles SportChick
22:11.31SportChickcries
22:11.44brlcadoffers scented tissues
22:12.53SportChickwas hoping for an answer :(
22:13.10brlcadwas hoping for a howdie and a hug
22:13.19SportChick*sigh*
22:13.32SportChickhugs brlcad and says "hi" (never "howdy")
22:13.45brlcad:)
22:13.51brlcadhm, that's somewhat close
22:14.27brlcadi suppose ... i could glance then
22:15.13brlcadtis installing :)
22:15.34SportChickyay, ty sweety!
22:16.38brlcadyw
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22:30.34JeffMso brlcad you can tell people to shudap about logging now ;)
22:38.10SportChickbrlcad: will you tell me when it's done installing and I can use?
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23:05.06brlcadSportChick: it's installed
23:06.15SportChickbrlcad: ty :)
23:07.26brlcadyw
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