| 00:01.45 | JeffM | *sigh* why must people lie on the forums |
| 00:03.10 | spldart | covers the "on the forums" ;) |
| 00:03.18 | spldart | heh |
| 00:03.43 | JeffM | in game server menu dosn't start the server with -conf, so the "your config will overide" is a lie |
| 00:04.21 | spldart | indeed |
| 00:04.52 | spldart | X's his ':-x' |
| 00:05.24 | blast007 | JeffM: or were they meaning what's in the options block of the map file? |
| 00:05.57 | JeffM | perhaps |
| 00:05.58 | spldart | I am heartened to see C certain students btw :) Thanks for hanging :-D |
| 00:06.02 | JeffM | but that ain't no config |
| 00:06.12 | JeffM | so they should call it "options in the map file" |
| 00:06.27 | JeffM | I also don't know if it's true that it will overide them all |
| 00:06.40 | JeffM | are the map options parsed when the -world is called? |
| 00:06.48 | blast007 | guess not |
| 00:06.49 | blast007 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:06.49 | blast007 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:06.49 | JeffM | or after all command line options |
| 00:06.55 | JeffM | yeah |
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| 00:06.57 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 00:07.10 | JeffM | so it's just Wrong |
| 00:07.16 | blast007 | yup |
| 00:07.49 | blast007 | I didn't verify the part about when the options block is processed |
| 00:07.58 | blast007 | but it probably is processed right then |
| 00:08.30 | JeffM | by that comment I'd think it would be |
| 00:08.36 | JeffM | as that seems to be the intent |
| 00:08.39 | JeffM | and that makes sense |
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| 00:35.34 | spldart | explodes |
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| 01:26.18 | Ratfink | Hi! |
| 01:26.40 | Ratfink | I think weechat is working. |
| 01:27.57 | Ratfink | is all alone :( |
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| 02:14.11 | AAA_awright | aahhh sf.net changed again |
| 03:09.03 | CIA-37 | BZFlag: 03trepan * r18460 10/branches/trepan/src/other/lua/ (142 files in 5 dirs): * did some gzipping, added some svn:eol-style properties |
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| 03:59.22 | JeffM | blast007: was there any reason we didn't upgrade BZFSLauncher to .net 2? |
| 04:03.39 | blast007 | no |
| 04:03.57 | blast007 | well, not that I know of, at least |
| 04:04.22 | JeffM | I'll try to add some more interface stuff to it |
| 04:04.25 | CIA-37 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r18461 10/trunk/bzflag/tools/BZFSLauncher/ (BZFSLauncher.csproj BZFSLauncher.sln): welcome to VC8 and .net 2.0. it's cool |
| 04:04.28 | JeffM | now that I don't fear the forms |
| 04:04.57 | JeffM | I'm also thinkin about having bzfs and bzflag write out some kind of location file on each OS, so we can see what the last run version of each app was |
| 04:05.02 | blast007 | last I tried, the output didn't always show up in the text field |
| 04:05.19 | JeffM | may make it easier to find the actual executables on each OS |
| 04:06.14 | JeffM | on windows I can throw it into app data, on linux the home dir, and on mac wherever the config is done |
| 04:06.34 | JeffM | then if there isn't a path stored for the launcher app, have it look for it in those paths |
| 04:06.59 | JeffM | if it has a path for the server, use that, if it dosn't and has a path for the client, try to guess where the server is, etc.. |
| 04:11.47 | CIA-37 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r18462 10/trunk/bzflag/tools/BZFSLauncher/Todo.txt: add a todo with suggested steps for the launcher. |
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| 07:35.24 | arkascha | My callsign has been kidnapped for the second time. Seems the password and email address have been changed. That is pretty annoying, does it happen frequent ? |
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| 07:38.37 | AAA_awright | arkascha: O.o |
| 07:39.01 | AAA_awright | Not if you don't give away your password |
| 07:39.35 | AAA_awright | that is a No |
| 07:44.39 | arkascha | AAA_awright: hm, well, I did NOT give it away. To whom should I give it ? |
| 07:44.46 | AAA_awright | No one |
| 07:44.52 | arkascha | AAA_awright: still it obviously has been changed |
| 07:45.03 | AAA_awright | What is your callsign? |
| 07:45.10 | arkascha | AAA_awright: [or something else is going on] |
| 07:45.17 | arkascha | AAA_awright: mine, why ? |
| 07:45.32 | AAA_awright | To see if it has been used |
| 07:45.44 | arkascha | AAA_awright: of course it has been used ?!? |
| 07:45.45 | AAA_awright | So it is arkascha ? |
| 07:45.49 | arkascha | no |
| 07:46.04 | arkascha | what sense is there in checking if it has been used ? |
| 07:46.19 | AAA_awright | Seeing where it has been used, and seeing who has been using it |
| 07:46.36 | AAA_awright | I have the resources to do that |
| 07:47.09 | brlcad | arkascha: someone can validate what the e-mail is presently set to |
| 07:47.26 | brlcad | and no, it does not happen frequently |
| 07:47.45 | brlcad | have actually only heard it occur on folks that have used really easy to gess passwords |
| 07:47.50 | brlcad | s/gess/guess/ |
| 07:48.11 | arkascha | brlcad: well, checking the email address, hmm, what do you want to check there ? There is probably some email address set, and now ? |
| 07:48.16 | AAA_awright | "password" is not a good password! |
| 07:49.24 | whodaman- | oh god |
| 07:49.25 | arkascha | have a try with the callsign 'arka-reloaded' then |
| 07:49.26 | brlcad | arkascha: to see if it's actually changed |
| 07:50.17 | AAA_awright | Someone was using that callsign 20 minutes ago on planet mofo, port 4200 |
| 07:50.39 | arkascha | AAA_awright: yep, tried to connect |
| 07:50.46 | arkascha | . if that is recorded it was me |
| 07:50.55 | arkascha | but I was refused |
| 07:51.36 | AAA_awright | You must have connected and joined, but couldn't play |
| 07:51.57 | arkascha | AAA_awright: yep. 'callsign is taken' |
| 07:52.13 | arkascha | AAA_awright: whilst I have NOT changed my password |
| 07:52.13 | AAA_awright | arkascha: Any of these play sessions not yours? http://bzflag.redjacket.ws/player/arka-reloaded |
| 07:53.09 | brlcad | arkascha: do you have any means to otherwise validate whom you say you are? |
| 07:53.54 | arkascha | AAA_awright: certainly the second from above, server 03.bztank.net:5156 is NOT from me. I dont know that server |
| 07:54.28 | arkascha | brlcad: ? how that ? |
| 07:54.39 | AAA_awright | That was used only 2 minutes before Mofo was, and it seems like that session wasn't used either |
| 07:55.53 | AAA_awright | I don't have IP information for either of those 2 servers, sorry |
| 07:58.49 | temp_dist | 2008-08-24 03:25:58: PLAYER-JOIN 13:arka-reloaded #3 BLUE IP:195.14.221.14 |
| 07:58.57 | temp_dist | 2008-08-24 03:26:26: PLAYER-PART 13:arka-reloaded #3 unidentified |
| 07:59.26 | temp_dist | earlier |
| 07:59.27 | temp_dist | 2008-08-23 05:12:58: Player arka-reloaded [11] has joined from 213.196.209.48 at 2008-08-23 05:12:58 with token "NONE" |
| 07:59.41 | arkascha | temp_dist: that would be what timezone ? |
| 07:59.49 | temp_dist | eastern US |
| 08:00.14 | temp_dist | even earlier |
| 08:00.14 | temp_dist | 2008-08-23 04:23:36: Player arka-reloaded [15] has joined from 76.201.17.10 at 2008-08-23 04:23:36 with token "NONE" |
| 08:00.29 | arkascha | temp_dist: not me, been sound asleep then |
| 08:00.51 | temp_dist | you are taking steps to change your password, I assume? |
| 08:01.19 | arkascha | temp_dist: tried via the usual login > forgot password some hour ago |
| 08:03.17 | temp_dist | I don't see anytime that "arka-reloaded" joined with a token other than "NONE" |
| 08:03.36 | temp_dist | that means they were not identifying as you, i think, arkascha |
| 08:03.44 | arkascha | temp_dist: actually, sorry, the times might have been me, not sure exactly about eastern US time :-( 03.25 was about 40 minutes ago ? |
| 08:03.58 | temp_dist | yes |
| 08:04.08 | arkascha | temp_dist: that means ? what is the token, actually ? |
| 08:04.36 | arkascha | temp_dist: ok, then it might have been the try leading me here :-) |
| 08:04.38 | temp_dist | when a player joins and is correctly identified with the global login system, they get a token number |
| 08:04.47 | temp_dist | something that is not "NONE" |
| 08:04.47 | brlcad | the bzbb account was disabled, so have to run it by one of the other admins (as to why it was disabled) |
| 08:04.54 | arkascha | temp_dist: ok, obviously I have NOT identified correctly |
| 08:04.59 | temp_dist | heh |
| 08:05.30 | arkascha | temp_dist: but I have not changed my password, neither in the server nor in the client |
| 08:05.35 | arkascha | temp_dist: and I could login before |
| 08:05.46 | temp_dist | that's strange for sure |
| 08:05.57 | arkascha | temp_dist: happened to be some month before with a prior callsign. Same thing |
| 08:06.22 | brlcad | arkascha: when was the last time you successfully logged in? |
| 08:06.39 | arkascha | brlcad: I'd say something like mid of last week |
| 08:08.13 | temp_dist | arkascha: I don't see anything wrong with the log in system at mofo |
| 08:08.38 | arkascha | temp_dist: did not say so :-) but the password have not been changed by me. |
| 08:08.46 | temp_dist | mhmm |
| 08:09.17 | arkascha | can you verify another callsigns login attempts month ago ? |
| 08:09.32 | arkascha | _might_be interesting if the same thing happened back then |
| 08:09.48 | arkascha | I mean successful logins, no problem, then suddenly no token any more |
| 08:10.35 | brlcad | there hasn't been a verified login under arka-reloaded within the last month |
| 08:10.58 | arkascha | brlcad: ? how that ? I have played ?!? |
| 08:11.13 | brlcad | you don't have to verify to play |
| 08:11.23 | brlcad | unless you join a server that requires verification |
| 08:11.24 | Tupone | brlcad: hola |
| 08:11.29 | brlcad | ciao tupone |
| 08:12.02 | arkascha | brlcad: umpf ? ah, ok, get the idea. So maybe I just used that account without identifying me and someone else took it over now by registering himself ? |
| 08:12.35 | brlcad | arkascha: that's possible -- or it's possible that it was already registered |
| 08:12.45 | brlcad | did you specifically register on bzbb? |
| 08:12.48 | brlcad | if so, when? |
| 08:14.01 | arkascha | brlcad: right, that might explain. I dont remember, I _think_ I registered only when I had problems for the frist time. No really a close idea when that was. I'd say about 6 month ago, but really not sure |
| 08:15.35 | arkascha | brlcad: so probably I should simply register a new account and use that. who cares ? |
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| 08:16.24 | brlcad | arkascha: well as I mentioned, then account is presently inactive so you could possibly claim it |
| 08:16.43 | brlcad | i've e-mailed the address listed to cross-check |
| 08:17.02 | arkascha | brlcad: ? its inactive ? so why cant I login then ? |
| 08:17.42 | arkascha | brlcad: in other words: HOW do I claim it ? |
| 08:18.09 | brlcad | arkascha: curious -- how do you register a new account? |
| 08:19.00 | arkascha | brlcad: using the register function at the forums, I'd say. Sorry, as I said I dont remember exactly. Only did it to play, thats all. |
| 08:19.21 | arkascha | read a little here and a little there and did _some_ registering _somewhere_ :-) |
| 08:19.26 | arkascha | sorry for the mess ! |
| 08:19.41 | arkascha | brlcad: so where exactly should I register ? |
| 08:19.49 | brlcad | arkascha: ehm, well you can't login because 1) you apparently don't know the password presently set, 2) aren't the e-mail registered to recover/reset the password, and 3) you can't verify against inactive accounts regardless |
| 08:20.07 | brlcad | that's the way, just wanted to make sure you understood correctly |
| 08:22.00 | arkascha | brlcad: lol, well I dont understand correctly I guess. |
| 08:22.02 | brlcad | arkascha: if you're willing to wait a day or two, the arka-reloaded account can be reset |
| 08:22.14 | arkascha | brlcad: certainly I do not provide the correct password, true. |
| 08:22.21 | brlcad | otherwise, you can always register new accounts |
| 08:22.38 | arkascha | brlcad: sure I can wait, since I cant use the callsign anyway :-) |
| 08:23.22 | arkascha | just to make sure I DO understand: |
| 08:23.47 | arkascha | I can play by just claiming a callsign, and my password is ignored, UNLESS someone else has registered that callsign ? |
| 08:24.20 | arkascha | but then the callsign must have been registered only three days ago orsomething. |
| 08:24.31 | arkascha | otherwise I should have gotton problems earlier |
| 08:24.58 | temp_dist | on mofo we use the 'requireidentify' permission for the 'verified' group - so if a callsign is registered, the person must provide the proper password |
| 08:25.41 | brlcad | arkascha: it depends on the server and the callsign |
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| 08:26.10 | arkascha | I still dont get it: that means the callsign has been registered some three days ago ? |
| 08:26.12 | brlcad | some like temp_dist mentioned for mofo require verification if it's a registered callsign |
| 08:28.09 | arkascha | brlcad: thinking about you words: so it might be possible to reclaim the callsign I used month ago if it has not been in use in the last weeks ? |
| 08:31.01 | Manu | arkascha: I guess no |
| 08:31.46 | arkascha | Manu: so probably there are masses of 'lost' accounts in the database then. Great system :-) |
| 08:32.10 | Manu | arkascha: players can be inactives for monts and then they join again |
| 08:32.41 | Manu | arkascha: so yes, it's nice |
| 08:32.58 | Manu | you can be sure nobody is going to steal your nick |
| 08:33.07 | arkascha | Manu: certainly. The problem is that usually these players use the same password and email address. I my case it seams that someone changed those datas. So I cannot use it again myself. |
| 08:33.33 | brlcad | looking through the logs, arka-reloaded was apparently registered in the past couple days |
| 08:33.44 | brlcad | possibly as early as yesterday |
| 08:33.56 | Manu | brlcad: that's why is a good idea to register your nick :) |
| 08:34.09 | Manu | I know time ago there were some cheaters registered common unregistered callsigns |
| 08:34.29 | Manu | just to ghost those players |
| 08:34.38 | arkascha | brlcad: ok, that explains a lot. Probably some coincidence |
| 08:34.48 | arkascha | or someone trying to make me go away |
| 08:34.53 | Manu | arkascha: AFAIK you can't register globally a nick with the same email |
| 08:34.55 | arkascha | gues I shot someone too often :-) |
| 08:35.00 | brlcad | arkascha: quites possible |
| 08:35.08 | arkascha | LOL |
| 08:35.35 | Manu | arkascha: next time be smart and register your callsign ;) |
| 08:36.01 | arkascha | Manu: actually I only found out you have to or even you CAN do that after I lost my first one :-9 |
| 08:36.18 | brlcad | the fact that the account is inactive makes me think someone just registered it to be annoying |
| 08:36.20 | Manu | heh |
| 08:36.23 | arkascha | right, thats for the lesson ! |
| 08:36.28 | brlcad | so it can be claimed |
| 08:36.28 | arkascha | have fun around ! |
| 08:36.37 | brlcad | check back on monday |
| 08:36.51 | brlcad | if it's still inactive, you can have it |
| 08:37.04 | Manu | brlcad: hola :) |
| 08:37.11 | brlcad | hola manu :) |
| 08:37.24 | Manu | brlcad: USA won Spain in basket ball :/ |
| 08:38.01 | Manu | brlcad: we can think about a nick refresh/clean up :) |
| 08:38.18 | brlcad | but did you see the girl from spain with the ribbons?? |
| 08:38.21 | brlcad | i mean damn |
| 08:38.25 | Manu | or like IRC after sometime someone can claim for one |
| 08:38.48 | Manu | brlcad: nope :( I only saw the end of the match |
| 08:40.37 | Manu | brlcad: we didn't wom but ppl say it was a nice match :) |
| 08:40.40 | Manu | won* |
| 08:41.18 | brlcad | isn't a big basketball fan |
| 08:41.28 | Manu | neither |
| 08:41.33 | Manu | lol |
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| 14:54.00 | Winny | anyone know if it's possible to use time machine with an internal hard drive? |
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| 15:31.07 | temp_dist | Winny: i am now |
| 15:31.23 | Winny | temp_dist: ah, ok |
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| 16:40.06 | kwtm | How do I change teams without restarting the BZFlag game, in Linux? |
| 16:41.50 | Winny | you need to leave the game to change teams |
| 16:42.17 | Winny | you can change the team under the "join game" menu, but it only effects new joins |
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| 16:48.53 | kwtm | Winny: Thanks. Does this apply to Linux? I have to set my team from the command line; I didn't notice a "which team do you want?" query when I join the game. I'll check again. |
| 16:49.20 | JeffM | there isn't one |
| 16:49.24 | JeffM | you set it before you join |
| 16:49.29 | JeffM | and the server can overide it |
| 16:49.44 | JeffM | it's the same on all OSs |
| 16:50.22 | Winny | it's in the join game menu |
| 16:50.24 | JeffM | directly under your password on the join game menu will be the prefered team |
| 17:10.07 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=wheeeeee@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 17:22.58 | *** join/#bzflag keith80403 (n=keith804@71-208-204-116.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 17:33.31 | *** join/#bzflag temp_dist (n=temp_dis@about/essy/alarming/a-temp-dist) |
| 18:01.06 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=const@67.61.218.246) |
| 18:04.31 | mdskpr | how do you use sketchup with bzflag? |
| 18:04.45 | mdskpr | does anybody have a sketchup bzw plugin or obj plugin? |
| 18:05.22 | blast007 | mdskpr: you need the pro version which can output to OBJ, and then you can use modeltool to convert that to BZW |
| 18:05.29 | mdskpr | k |
| 18:07.07 | mdskpr | thnx downloading |
| 18:09.07 | JeffM | wonders how his tiny adventure went |
| 18:12.02 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 18:12.02 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 18:31.31 | F687s | Is there any way to clientquery people via BZFS plugin? |
| 18:32.15 | brad | isn't that info sent to the server when you first login? |
| 18:32.20 | brad | if you have enough -d's |
| 18:32.27 | JeffM | I don't think it's saved |
| 18:32.36 | JeffM | if it is, we can expose it |
| 18:33.14 | JeffM | yeah it's stored |
| 18:33.21 | JeffM | PlayerInfo::getClientVersion |
| 18:35.35 | F687s | Thanks. |
| 18:37.10 | CIA-37 | BZFlag: 03trepan * r18463 10/branches/trepan/src/other/lua/ (8 files in 2 dirs): * added the custom LUA_CALLINSINDEX table |
| 18:40.00 | epyon | woah, Lua, when did that happen? :D |
| 18:45.03 | JeffM | see the word 'branch" |
| 18:45.21 | epyon | yeah, but it's still interesting :) |
| 18:45.44 | JeffM | trepan is working on it, my guess is he's pullin over stuff from ta spring |
| 18:48.09 | CIA-37 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r18464 10/branches/v2_99_shot_branch/ (include/bzfsAPI.h src/bzfs/bzfsAPI.cxx): add the client version to the API player record. |
| 18:48.42 | JeffM | bahh.. shot branch?! |
| 18:49.25 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpi (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 18:50.06 | *** join/#bzflag Alex135 (n=alex@143.207.200.38) |
| 18:50.58 | trepan | JeffM: indeed, it's a port of a lot of the lua stuff I did for Spring |
| 18:51.08 | trepan | they don't like the 'TA' part anymore ;-) |
| 18:51.29 | trepan | like to think that they've evolved past it ... |
| 18:51.36 | JeffM | have they? ;) |
| 18:52.02 | trepan | with my help, ya |
| 18:52.19 | trepan | with the lua additions, you can draw anything, network anything, write basically any game |
| 18:52.24 | *** join/#bzflag think_differentl (n=thinkdif@adsl-76-203-74-167.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:52.25 | JeffM | fun |
| 18:53.37 | trepan | don't have the same kind of plan for bz, but the world/tank/shot/etc... rendering could get a lot more interesting |
| 18:54.00 | trepan | and UI as well |
| 18:58.13 | JeffM | funtastic |
| 19:00.35 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=const@unaffiliated/macsforme) |
| 19:06.39 | CIA-37 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r18465 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (inc/FaceGenerator.h src/FaceGenerator.cxx): |
| 19:06.39 | CIA-37 | BZFlag: * common code for primary and secondary road network cleaned up and extracted to growRoadNetwork |
| 19:06.39 | CIA-37 | BZFlag: * bug with dead end extraction fixed. |
| 19:06.40 | CIA-37 | BZFlag: * one segfault case fixed |
| 19:07.00 | epyon | ~trepan++ |
| 19:07.24 | CIA-37 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r18466 10/trunk/bzflag/ (include/bzfsAPI.h src/bzfs/bzfsAPI.cxx): add the client version to the API player record. |
| 19:14.26 | trepan | JeffM: ya, you're right, should probably find a more useful way to occupy my free time |
| 19:15.54 | JeffM | how are the hands doing? |
| 19:15.59 | *** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=kemhof@75.144.224.155) |
| 19:23.54 | mdskpr | blast007, sketchup pro is working nicely under wine with obj export support thnx |
| 19:24.01 | *** part/#bzflag trepan (n=trepan@unaffiliated/trepan) |
| 19:25.35 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=short_ci@c-98-197-19-50.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 19:25.35 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |
| 19:27.33 | *** join/#bzflag pacman87 (i=127@resnet-46-48.dorm.utexas.edu) |
| 19:37.28 | CIA-37 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r18467 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (4 files in 3 dirs): |
| 19:37.28 | CIA-37 | BZFlag: * added a lot more logging info, mainly for BuildZone and RuleSet |
| 19:37.28 | CIA-37 | BZFlag: * style cleanup of the files |
| 19:39.18 | *** join/#bzflag FusionDude (n=jwmelto@c-76-25-213-219.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 19:54.35 | *** join/#bzflag short_circuit (n=short_ci@c-98-197-19-50.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 19:54.52 | *** join/#bzflag kirun (n=kirun@126.164.pn.adsl.brightview.com) |
| 19:55.53 | CIA-37 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r18468 10/trunk/bzwgen/src/RuleSet.cxx: * further logging info and style fixup |
| 20:05.10 | *** join/#bzflag spldart2 (n=short_ci@c-98-197-19-50.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 20:06.30 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |
| 20:09.01 | *** join/#bzflag short_circuit (n=short_ci@c-98-197-19-50.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 20:26.53 | epyon | hmm, if I have a function that is passed a pointer, and I want that pointer to be set to null after execution of that function, then how should the prototype of the function look like? |
| 20:27.48 | epyon | void func( some_type*& pointer ) ? |
| 20:58.15 | *** join/#bzflag noyb (n=noyb@pool-71-108-97-231.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 20:59.54 | *** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=kemhof@75.144.224.155) |
| 21:01.13 | *** join/#bzflag noyb (n=noyb@pool-71-108-97-231.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 21:03.09 | *** join/#bzflag noyb (n=noyb@pool-71-108-97-231.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 21:16.48 | Flash | epyon: yes, but that smells of bad design to me |
| 21:16.58 | *** join/#bzflag swiggl_ (n=Paul@71-12-6-087.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) |
| 21:17.14 | Flash | well, actually... |
| 21:17.16 | Wyk3d | Flash: i use it all the time, it's great ;) |
| 21:18.03 | Flash | void func( void (someName*&)() ) or something like that... I'd use a typedef for the function pointer |
| 21:18.11 | Flash | Wyk3d: that doesn't mean it's good design.... |
| 21:18.26 | Wyk3d | true .. also depends what you use it for |
| 21:18.27 | Flash | ~slap me |
| 21:18.27 | ibot | ACTION slaps flash, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 21:18.36 | Flash | sorry, I read function pointer |
| 21:19.11 | Flash | points to his first response |
| 21:19.30 | *** join/#bzflag swigg (n=Paul@71-12-6-087.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) |
| 21:33.33 | *** join/#bzflag swiggl_ (n=Paul@71-14-108-006.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) |
| 21:48.28 | *** join/#bzflag hwilde_ (n=hwilde@pool-70-17-161-64.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 21:48.30 | hwilde_ | ./configure: line 1851: BZ_UNBOLD: command not found |
| 21:48.30 | hwilde_ | configure: error: cannot run /bin/bash misc/config.sub |
| 21:48.32 | hwilde_ | anybody? |
| 21:53.28 | Constitution | hwilde_: what version? |
| 21:54.16 | hwilde_ | yeah thats what im lookin at |
| 21:54.20 | hwilde_ | dunno how i got 2.99 |
| 21:54.53 | Constitution | you're trying to compile the 2.0 branch? |
| 21:55.01 | hwilde_ | i think 2.0.12 is workin right now |
| 21:55.15 | hwilde_ | i dled the src from sourceforge |
| 21:55.20 | hwilde_ | svn gave me 2.99 |
| 21:55.52 | Constitution | you can get pretty much anything from svn, you just need to pick the one you want |
| 21:56.28 | Constitution | for instance, you can get 2.0.12 at http://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/tags/v2_0_12/ |
| 21:56.29 | hwilde_ | LinuxDisplay.h:45: error: ISO C++ forbids declaration of âXF86VidModeModeInfoâ with no type |
| 21:56.40 | CIA-37 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r18469 10/trunk/bzwgen/inc/ (Product.h globals.h): |
| 21:56.40 | CIA-37 | BZFlag: * Product.h file commented |
| 21:56.41 | CIA-37 | BZFlag: * cleanup of Product class |
| 21:56.41 | CIA-37 | BZFlag: * globals.h : introduced deletePointer, deletePointerVector safety templates |
| 21:56.42 | hwilde_ | :/ |
| 21:57.13 | epyon | Flash: no typedefs possible -- it's for a globaluse templated func |
| 21:57.41 | hwilde_ | LinuxDisplay.h:24:38: error: X11/extensions/xf86vmode.h: No such file or directory |
| 21:58.53 | Constitution | do you have the X11 development libraries and headers installed? |
| 22:01.01 | hwilde_ | thinks so |
| 22:01.08 | hwilde_ | you never know with ubuntu |
| 22:01.12 | hwilde_ | everytime I update.... |
| 22:04.48 | hwilde_ | yay i got further this time |
| 22:04.51 | hwilde_ | /home/hwilde/bzflag-2.0.12/bzflag-2.0.12/src/platform/BzfMedia.cxx:414: undefined reference to `openWavFile(char const*, short*, long*, int*, short*, short*)' |
| 22:05.23 | blast007 | hwilde_: install SDL so it's not building with the native linux stuff |
| 22:05.29 | hwilde_ | yeah I did that |
| 22:05.31 | blast007 | sdl dev |
| 22:05.34 | hwilde_ | now its on to the wav |
| 22:05.34 | blast007 | k |
| 22:05.40 | hwilde_ | see that last error? |
| 22:05.42 | blast007 | yup |
| 22:05.49 | blast007 | that's our own function iirc |
| 22:05.57 | hwilde_ | mmhmm |
| 22:06.05 | hwilde_ | ../platform/.libs/libPlatform.a(BzfMedia.o): In function `BzfMedia::doReadSound(std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> > const&, int&, int&) const': |
| 22:07.34 | hwilde_ | #ifndef HAVE_SDL |
| 22:07.34 | hwilde_ | #include "wave.h" |
| 22:07.34 | hwilde_ | #endif |
| 22:07.38 | hwilde_ | but I do have sdl |
| 22:07.47 | blast007 | did configure say it was building with SDL? |
| 22:07.49 | hwilde_ | lemme make clean try again |
| 22:08.05 | blast007 | you have to ./configure again if you installed SDL after you ran that the first time |
| 22:08.18 | hwilde_ | I did that |
| 22:08.25 | hwilde_ | i think make clean is the ticket |
| 22:08.27 | blast007 | and did it say it was building with SDL? |
| 22:08.28 | blast007 | k |
| 22:08.32 | hwilde_ | configure did yes |
| 22:08.36 | hwilde_ | but it mustve already compile bzfmedia |
| 22:17.58 | hwilde_ | why is everyone nr |
| 22:18.21 | hwilde_ | bzfx - relax - bloodbath |
| 22:18.27 | blast007 | heh |
| 22:18.29 | hwilde_ | a_meteorite, are you seein this |
| 22:18.47 | a_meteorite | AAA_awright: ping |
| 22:19.06 | a_meteorite | hwilde_: we are aware of the problem... although we are not sure *what* is causing it |
| 22:19.13 | blast007 | solar flares |
| 22:19.21 | a_meteorite | except we do know that it does not affect all people and there does not seem to be a discernable pattern |
| 22:19.29 | a_meteorite | http://bzfx.net/core2.volumedrive.com%20(66.197.221.129).png |
| 22:19.45 | a_meteorite | that is all our traceroutes TO people from our server, an X is affected, a check is OK |
| 22:20.05 | a_meteorite | some have a pattern some do not |
| 22:20.59 | hwilde_ | no problem |
| 22:21.08 | hwilde_ | tried the new version, still no problem |
| 22:21.15 | a_meteorite | you are not going NR? |
| 22:21.18 | hwilde_ | nope |
| 22:21.20 | hwilde_ | never have |
| 22:21.25 | a_meteorite | can we have your IP so we can add that to the graph? |
| 22:21.49 | a_meteorite | we need a larger sample size to see what's going on so that our host can help us out |
| 22:22.53 | a_meteorite | AAA_awright can explain the problem better anyhow, we've already done some tcpdumps/wiresharks to see what's going on |
| 22:23.28 | hwilde_ | my ip 70.17.161.64 |
| 22:23.38 | hwilde_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:23.38 | hwilde_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:23.38 | hwilde_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:23.38 | hwilde_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:23.38 | hwilde_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:23.40 | hwilde_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:23.42 | hwilde_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:23.44 | hwilde_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:23.46 | hwilde_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:23.48 | hwilde_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:23.50 | hwilde_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:23.51 | AAA_awright | #flood next time |
| 22:23.52 | hwilde_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:23.54 | hwilde_ | 10: p0-0-0d0.mar1.philadelphia-pa.us.xo.net (65.106.3.234) 63.644ms asymm 11 |
| 22:23.56 | blast007 | ~bzpastebin |
| 22:23.57 | ibot | somebody said bzpastebin was http://pastebin.bzflag.bz or a place to put large chunks of text so as not to flood a channel |
| 22:23.57 | hwilde_ | 11: 207.88.87.222.ptr.us.xo.net (207.88.87.222) 63.919ms |
| 22:23.58 | hwilde_ | 12: ip65-47-113-22.z113-47-65.customer.algx.net (65.47.113.22) 68.818ms |
| 22:24.00 | hwilde_ | 13: ge-7-0-100.rtr0.sctn.hostnoc.net (66.197.191.81) 201.123ms reached |
| 22:24.02 | blast007 | .. |
| 22:24.02 | hwilde_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:24.04 | hwilde_ | tracepath takes abit |
| 22:24.06 | hwilde_ | but i'm not having nr problems |
| 22:24.13 | Flash | epyon: typedefs are always possible |
| 22:24.15 | a_meteorite | alright |
| 22:24.37 | AAA_awright | hwilde_: For some, but not all, players, UDP packets stop getting sent and received, which transmits the player positions and shots. TCP which transmits everything else, like chats and flags, is unaffected |
| 22:25.16 | hwilde_ | AAA_awright, it looks like I am on a different link thatn all those others in the screenshot rtr0 |
| 22:25.35 | AAA_awright | It shows a different link each way |
| 22:26.06 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=Jeff@pool-71-109-223-178.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 22:26.16 | hwilde_ | I have streaming music in the bg tho, maybe that keeps my session awake |
| 22:26.30 | AAA_awright | I don't think that has anything to do with it |
| 22:26.35 | a_meteorite | that is pretty much how the internet (BGP) works ... you don't get to control where they come from as much as where you can send them, and various ISPs/service providers each have different philosophies on routing |
| 22:26.40 | AAA_awright | It might idk |
| 22:26.40 | blast007 | that would likely be TCP anyway |
| 22:26.54 | a_meteorite | also, it won't affect observers |
| 22:27.00 | Flash | a_meteorite: pretty picture |
| 22:27.04 | AAA_awright | When UDP gets cut, it only affects packets from *that* port |
| 22:27.07 | hwilde_ | sounds like loadbalancers are messing it up |
| 22:27.12 | a_meteorite | I idled in observer for a long time and continued to receive packets ... soon as I join a team, I'm gone in a few minutes |
| 22:27.12 | AAA_awright | ! |
| 22:27.19 | AAA_awright | That sounds probably |
| 22:27.22 | AAA_awright | *probable |
| 22:27.31 | hwilde_ | tcp sockets are there and back, but udp goes out one side of the load balancer and back the other |
| 22:27.39 | hwilde_ | messes up your acks |
| 22:27.46 | a_meteorite | UDP doesn't do ACK |
| 22:27.59 | a_meteorite | although it may still be a problem there |
| 22:28.09 | hwilde_ | how does the server know the client got the info |
| 22:28.14 | AAA_awright | We could be sending a wrongly flipped bit or something |
| 22:28.15 | blast007 | it doesn't |
| 22:28.15 | JeffM | it dosn't |
| 22:28.20 | blast007 | that's how UDP works |
| 22:28.28 | JeffM | UDP is only used for stuff that isn't important |
| 22:28.31 | JeffM | like postion updates |
| 22:28.32 | hwilde_ | lol |
| 22:28.37 | JeffM | since if it is droped, the next update will get it |
| 22:28.50 | JeffM | if TCP was used, by the time the TCP resent it, the data would be invalid |
| 22:28.59 | hwilde_ | it's used for lots of stuff that's important tho |
| 22:29.02 | hwilde_ | aka you can't play wihtout it |
| 22:29.10 | blast007 | hwilde_: yeah you can |
| 22:29.15 | JeffM | yeah techincaly you can |
| 22:29.16 | blast007 | it *can* fall back to TCP |
| 22:29.18 | JeffM | it is just slow |
| 22:29.19 | a_meteorite | you can play with TCP, but is painful |
| 22:29.21 | JeffM | and we don't do it |
| 22:29.26 | JeffM | we use UDP because it is fast |
| 22:29.35 | JeffM | and there are levels of important |
| 22:29.46 | JeffM | the speed diff between TPC and UDP is enough to warrant using it for postion updates |
| 22:29.58 | blast007 | hwilde_: and we're not talking about the connection dropping 100%, we're talking about some packets here and there. We use it because if we lose a few, it doesn't really matter. |
| 22:30.01 | JeffM | since if you miss 10 out of 100 postion updates, it dosn't affect the game that much |
| 22:30.05 | hwilde_ | sets lectureMode = 0 |
| 22:30.08 | JeffM | but if each update takes 3x as long... |
| 22:30.59 | JeffM | don't we do requireUDP by default? |
| 22:31.12 | hwilde_ | yes |
| 22:31.19 | JeffM | good |
| 22:31.20 | hwilde_ | it works when ppl join |
| 22:31.24 | hwilde_ | then it stops working and they go nr |
| 22:31.26 | JeffM | UDP provides the best game play |
| 22:31.31 | JeffM | are you an observer? |
| 22:31.47 | hwilde_ | nope |
| 22:31.56 | hwilde_ | I also am not going nr |
| 22:32.03 | JeffM | ahh |
| 22:32.05 | hwilde_ | join bzfx relax bloodbath |
| 22:32.08 | hwilde_ | you will see |
| 22:32.18 | AAA_awright | JeffM: We are trying to figure out why only some, but not all, of players on our server keep going NR after a while |
| 22:32.24 | blast007 | I still see -requireudp in the 2.0.11 options |
| 22:32.25 | JeffM | there is a known bug with some routers for observers that make it look like everyone going NR |
| 22:32.37 | JeffM | AAA_awright: probalby crapy server |
| 22:32.44 | hwilde_ | did you see that guy just capped while nr |
| 22:32.48 | AAA_awright | This happened three months in though |
| 22:32.49 | a_meteorite | JeffM: http://bzfx.net/core2.volumedrive.com%20(66.197.221.129).png |
| 22:32.53 | AAA_awright | It was a great server |
| 22:32.55 | hwilde_ | how do you do that if you're not getting position updates |
| 22:32.57 | blast007 | hwilde_: flag caps are TCP |
| 22:33.08 | hwilde_ | ouch |
| 22:33.09 | blast007 | YOU are probably not getting any updates |
| 22:33.18 | blast007 | so they are sending them just fine maybe |
| 22:33.27 | a_meteorite | it's very reliable on WHO it affects, but the differences in traceroutes says that it's not one of volumedrive's router |
| 22:33.42 | hwilde_ | yes that's a good point, client to server udp seems to be getting through |
| 22:33.52 | hwilde_ | people can drive around and grab flags and cap |
| 22:33.56 | a_meteorite | if volumedrive somehow caused it ... well ... it would interesting to find out how on earth they did |
| 22:33.58 | hwilde_ | server to client udp not quite |
| 22:34.01 | JeffM | IIRC NR comes from ping packets |
| 22:34.10 | a_meteorite | also, for me, observer has worked fine, it's when I play that I go NR |
| 22:34.19 | JeffM | looks to see if those are TCP or UDP |
| 22:34.23 | blast007 | JeffM: I think it's player updates |
| 22:34.31 | JeffM | maybe |
| 22:34.34 | JeffM | it could be ether or |
| 22:34.41 | JeffM | what kind of router are you on? |
| 22:34.51 | blast007 | I don't think ping packets are sent often enough for the NR stuff |
| 22:34.54 | hwilde_ | doubles down on loadbalancer |
| 22:35.06 | a_meteorite | WRT54GS |
| 22:35.08 | JeffM | oh you are doing load balancing on the router? |
| 22:35.14 | a_meteorite | I'm not |
| 22:35.19 | JeffM | is it via a single conncetion? |
| 22:35.25 | a_meteorite | yes |
| 22:35.40 | JeffM | it's a home system? |
| 22:35.42 | a_meteorite | I think hwilde_ is referring to our host, volumedrive, but I would imagine they are using BGP |
| 22:35.45 | a_meteorite | yes |
| 22:35.58 | JeffM | where is the server hosted? |
| 22:36.07 | a_meteorite | volumedrive, in pennsylvania |
| 22:36.23 | JeffM | and it happens to more then one connected client at the same time? |
| 22:36.34 | a_meteorite | yup, but not necessarily everyone |
| 22:36.47 | AAA_awright | Not at the same time, it is per connection |
| 22:36.52 | JeffM | then I'd say it still sounds like the host, not one of your local connections |
| 22:36.56 | a_meteorite | it is very reliable on who it effects |
| 22:37.11 | blast007 | a_meteorite: everyone with the letter 't' in their name? |
| 22:37.11 | a_meteorite | hmmm, ok |
| 22:37.15 | AAA_awright | It either always affects you or it doesn't, no in between |
| 22:37.15 | blast007 | ;) |
| 22:37.17 | a_meteorite | blast007: lol |
| 22:37.18 | JeffM | probably something in there packet shaping dosnt' like something on some routers |
| 22:37.30 | a_meteorite | that makes some sense |
| 22:37.32 | JeffM | if you take the server setup, and mirror it on another machine does it happen? |
| 22:37.43 | a_meteorite | AAA_awright said my router was sending a differently classified packet |
| 22:37.49 | JeffM | like if you host from home with the same setup, can you get the same people to have the problem when conencted to you? |
| 22:38.05 | a_meteorite | I have not tried that yet |
| 22:38.12 | AAA_awright | Updated image |
| 22:38.29 | JeffM | you need to eliminate one thing at a time to narrow down the problem |
| 22:38.35 | AAA_awright | Still need to add some people |
| 22:38.37 | JeffM | so trying it on a different host is good |
| 22:38.51 | JeffM | if it dupes on your host, try a bare bones server config |
| 22:39.01 | AAA_awright | JeffM: It happens regardless of the map or server version, |
| 22:39.04 | JeffM | if it dupes that way, then you know it's not the server or config, but something with your versions. |
| 22:39.08 | AAA_awright | though we have not tried a bare bones server |
| 22:39.10 | JeffM | AAA_awright: it may be the config |
| 22:39.14 | JeffM | not just the version |
| 22:39.31 | AAA_awright | a_meteorite: join port 5154 and see |
| 22:39.33 | JeffM | that would be one thing to try on your remote host, a bare bones random map |
| 22:39.38 | hwilde_ | it works for some people tho |
| 22:39.46 | a_meteorite | AAA_awright: kk |
| 22:39.52 | hwilde_ | you can config mess up half the ppl ? |
| 22:39.56 | JeffM | yeah but if you know WHO it dosn't work with you can use them to help you figure out what it is. |
| 22:40.03 | JeffM | hwilde_: don't know at this point |
| 22:40.06 | JeffM | hence the testing |
| 22:40.30 | blast007 | hwilde_: sure! /set _blueTeamNR 1 |
| 22:40.57 | JeffM | sure you can make wild guesses and look at charts and graphs all day long, or get down to actualy debuging it one step at a time. |
| 22:41.08 | JeffM | you have too many unknowns now |
| 22:41.17 | hwilde_ | sets blast007 sarcasm = assumed |
| 22:41.45 | JeffM | his point is, at this time you don't know WHAT is causing the problem |
| 22:41.54 | JeffM | now, did it used to work and just start doing this? |
| 22:42.36 | hwilde_ | you never know for sure |
| 22:42.44 | AAA_awright | It used to work |
| 22:42.49 | hwilde_ | probabilities point @ volumedrive load balancing |
| 22:42.50 | AAA_awright | It worked last wednesday |
| 22:42.56 | JeffM | when did it start having the problem? |
| 22:43.03 | AAA_awright | 24 hours later, some people had problems |
| 22:43.06 | *** join/#bzflag think_differentl (n=thinkdif@adsl-76-203-74-167.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:43.16 | AAA_awright | Nothing changed that I can see |
| 22:43.25 | AAA_awright | I checked all the available logs |
| 22:43.34 | JeffM | it happened after they added load ballancing? |
| 22:43.44 | AAA_awright | We don't know if they added anything |
| 22:43.48 | JeffM | did you ask |
| 22:43.54 | AAA_awright | a_meteorite wants more information |
| 22:44.06 | JeffM | what makes you think it's load ballancing? |
| 22:44.24 | AAA_awright | That was an example I think, I never said that |
| 22:44.48 | JeffM | well I'd test bare bones for starters |
| 22:44.51 | hwilde_ | I think that client to server udp is working |
| 22:44.52 | JeffM | see if that dupes |
| 22:44.58 | hwilde_ | I can see the nr people picking up flags |
| 22:45.06 | hwilde_ | I think server to client udp is not working |
| 22:45.12 | AAA_awright | vanilla 2.0.13 doesn't work |
| 22:45.17 | JeffM | then try it on another host to see if those same people have the same problem |
| 22:45.26 | JeffM | so you can dupe it in a simpler case, good |
| 22:45.31 | JeffM | now try a different host |
| 22:45.37 | JeffM | with the same people that have the problem |
| 22:45.57 | JeffM | that will assure you that it is NOT the routers of those people |
| 22:47.01 | hwilde_ | how can I kill met if he is nr ? |
| 22:47.19 | JeffM | he sees the shot, and sends a death message |
| 22:47.22 | JeffM | he's only NR to you |
| 22:47.34 | JeffM | NR is a relitive thing |
| 22:47.40 | JeffM | and only based off one packet type |
| 22:48.07 | hwilde_ | so he is getting my bullets from the server, but I am not getting his position from the server? |
| 22:48.58 | JeffM | something like that |
| 22:49.13 | JeffM | it's looking like it's the server, but try running the same setup on one of your hosts just to verify |
| 22:49.37 | JeffM | if that works fine, then you get to go to the ISP and be 100$ sure it's not an application problem, or a routing issue on your end |
| 22:49.49 | JeffM | 100% :) |
| 22:50.26 | JeffM | the more things you elimitate by proof, the better your case is on the ISP's load ballancing |
| 22:50.33 | JeffM | aka, crapy routing |
| 22:50.58 | JeffM | you guys don' seem to have the best of luck with hosts |
| 22:52.04 | JeffM | are you on shared hosting or dedicated? |
| 22:52.36 | hwilde_ | you really should join |
| 22:52.38 | hwilde_ | it's pretty funny |
| 22:52.46 | hwilde_ | i can shoot met but he is nr |
| 22:52.47 | JeffM | it won't show anything |
| 22:52.55 | JeffM | run it on another host |
| 22:54.01 | hwilde_ | everytime I shoot him he is okay |
| 22:54.08 | hwilde_ | then he spawns and i see his position |
| 22:54.11 | hwilde_ | nthen he goes nr |
| 22:54.21 | JeffM | again, the actual in game effects don't matter |
| 22:54.32 | JeffM | I'm sure it's HILAROUS but it's not solving the problem |
| 22:56.51 | AAA_awright | Weirdest thing I have seen on BZFlag, I think. Maybe second or third. |
| 22:57.15 | blast007 | it's not that weird |
| 22:57.17 | hwilde_ | not a bzlfag issue |
| 22:57.20 | hwilde_ | nnetwork |
| 22:57.29 | JeffM | you ran it on another host? |
| 22:58.57 | hwilde_ | not my server |
| 23:15.49 | AAA_awright | TD-Linux: Where did this logo come from? https://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=144370&ssid=15834 |
| 23:16.06 | AAA_awright | er... https://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=144370&ssid=17644 |
| 23:22.59 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 23:23.50 | CIA-37 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r18470 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (inc/Operation.h inc/Product.h src/Operation.cxx): |
| 23:23.50 | CIA-37 | BZFlag: * Operation classes -- proper disposal |
| 23:23.50 | CIA-37 | BZFlag: * Operation.h/cxx style cleanup |
| 23:23.50 | CIA-37 | BZFlag: * OperationTemplate template for multi-expression templates |
| 23:41.10 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@CPE-76-182-130-120.natwky.res.rr.com) |
| 23:41.10 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 23:48.23 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=short_ci@c-98-197-19-50.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 23:48.23 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |
| 23:53.22 | donny_baker | i had an ineresting thought on bans... how about an unregistered user ban? |
| 23:53.32 | donny_baker | autowhitelists registered users |
| 23:53.45 | JeffM | be a simple plugin to write |
| 23:53.57 | JeffM | kick if auth failed |
| 23:54.25 | donny_baker | ah.. that makes sense |
| 23:55.01 | donny_baker | was thinking it would be easier to lay down a range ban without penalizing regulars on that same range |
| 23:55.25 | donny_baker | and it would insentivize the regulars who aren;t registered to get registered |
| 23:55.31 | JeffM | you could just add antiban to the registered group |
| 23:55.45 | JeffM | then if one of those gets out of line, do an ID ban |
| 23:55.48 | donny_baker | nah.. they can still be banned for being douches |
| 23:56.06 | donny_baker | yeah but wont the antiban override the id? |
| 23:56.28 | JeffM | perhaps we should make an ID ban be the final ban |
| 23:57.07 | *** join/#bzflag bier (n=bier@p54A55B69.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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