| 00:01.14 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=const@unaffiliated/macsforme) |
| 00:06.59 | CBG | whodaman-: save one and see? iirc they are standard 400 (800*800). |
| 00:08.01 | whodaman- | okay |
| 00:19.45 | AAA_awright | Anyone care to close http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1980929&group_id=3248&atid=303248 ? It was already applied. |
| 00:31.53 | AAA_awright | Constitution: Are you going to be working on the group manager much more? I am trying to figure out how to merge these changes in |
| 00:32.19 | Constitution | probably, but not until after GSoC |
| 00:33.20 | Constitution | what changes are you talking about? |
| 00:40.51 | AAA_awright | Constitution: The patch I wrote up adds a new authentication scheme, but it also changes the filenames from .inc to .inc.php, idk if that would be hard to fix in SVN |
| 00:41.39 | AAA_awright | It is quite fussy over file names I figured out (though, not nearly as bad as CVS) |
| 00:43.41 | Constitution | are we going to use your new authentication scheme? |
| 00:44.04 | Constitution | no offense, but we're not going to commit code we have no plans to use |
| 00:44.06 | AAA_awright | I don't know, I get the feeling no one is going to take seriously until I release a patch |
| 00:44.14 | AAA_awright | And that is the problem |
| 00:44.40 | Constitution | and no one is going to take a patch seriously until it is discussed |
| 00:44.44 | AAA_awright | Won't commit if we don't use it -> Won't check it out if it isn't a patch -> etc |
| 00:46.17 | Constitution | you don't need to submit a patch to tell us what your code does |
| 00:47.00 | Constitution | the last time I checked, the "plan" was to use LDAP and use the built-in support in phpBB and MediaWiki |
| 00:48.08 | Constitution | go ahead and submit the filename changes and associated code... I can commit that with no problem |
| 00:49.21 | JeffM2501 | what authentication are you talking about? |
| 00:49.23 | JeffM2501 | in game? |
| 00:49.50 | Constitution | auth to web services, I think |
| 00:50.03 | AAA_awright | A web services authentication platform I made |
| 00:50.10 | JeffM2501 | that uses the ldap system? |
| 00:51.00 | AAA_awright | It uses the group manager data abstraction layer, it doesn't matter. I am using MySQL, but you can change it. |
| 00:51.36 | JeffM2501 | can you describe how it works? |
| 00:52.50 | AAA_awright | It consists of a patch for the group manager that modularizes some things, and a plugin for MediaWiki and phpBB3 that plugs into the group manager login, for a single sign on. |
| 00:53.17 | JeffM2501 | ok, so this is for our services logins, not weblogin? |
| 00:54.16 | AAA_awright | Yes. I haven't thought about it, but it could replace weblogin too. Instead of typing in a password, you just click a button to confirm. |
| 00:54.30 | AAA_awright | (If you are logged in at the time) |
| 00:54.32 | JeffM2501 | it's ok |
| 00:54.40 | JeffM2501 | I am just trying to understand what you are talking about |
| 00:55.22 | AAA_awright | Yeah, this replaces the login form for phpBB and MediaWiki with the group manager login form. |
| 00:56.04 | AAA_awright | Possibly other applications too (Drupal), I haven't examined how their authentication works yet. |
| 00:56.20 | JeffM2501 | there is an advantage to having the logins go thru one common module |
| 00:56.28 | JeffM2501 | but what you are describing is more then a patch |
| 00:56.48 | JeffM2501 | I'd say get with blast and donny_baker to discuss it for when we upgrade to phpbb3 |
| 00:57.07 | JeffM2501 | I'm not sure if group manager is ready to roll, but if it's auth abstraction is, that's fine |
| 00:57.22 | JeffM2501 | it sounds like a plausable idea |
| 00:57.39 | JeffM2501 | then when we swap to ldap, we only have to change one place, and pick up 3 services with it. |
| 00:57.40 | AAA_awright | This would have to be applied when the upgrade is made, yes. The advantage is you have one place to manage your account, plus it decouples the data from the protocol. |
| 00:57.43 | JeffM2501 | that's the part I like about it |
| 00:58.08 | JeffM2501 | where is the "one place to manage your accoun"? group manager? |
| 00:58.15 | JeffM2501 | cus I don't think that is ready for prime time at all |
| 00:58.40 | AAA_awright | No, it isn't, but the login on it works more then enough for the single sign on part to work. |
| 00:59.03 | JeffM2501 | yes, but does it work enough for the management? |
| 00:59.21 | JeffM2501 | or does your patch allow say phpbb3 to manage the account as well? |
| 00:59.26 | AAA_awright | In the manager's current state, no. |
| 00:59.47 | JeffM2501 | then that would be a concern of mine for the time of implemenation |
| 01:00.06 | JeffM2501 | it can also be implemented AFTER the upgrade to phpbb3 if we need more time to work out the group manager's user stuff |
| 01:00.10 | JeffM2501 | but as a concept I like it |
| 01:00.11 | AAA_awright | phpBB would have it's own preferences, but it isn't any better then the current situation. |
| 01:00.14 | Constitution | the group manager uses phpBB user info for authentication right now |
| 01:00.37 | AAA_awright | And this reverses that, phpBB uses group manager authentication :) |
| 01:00.39 | JeffM2501 | AAA_awright, I know it woudln't be beter right now, but you'd be laying the groundwork for it to be better later ;) |
| 01:00.45 | AAA_awright | Exactly |
| 01:00.59 | JeffM2501 | AAA_awright, and group manager would go and just read back from the same phpbb3 database for now |
| 01:01.08 | JeffM2501 | so realy you are just putting a in a middle man |
| 01:01.10 | JeffM2501 | so that's fine |
| 01:01.18 | JeffM2501 | it gives us a single place to change. |
| 01:01.22 | JeffM2501 | that's what I like about it |
| 01:02.00 | JeffM2501 | so in the interm, we could still use phpbb to manage the acocunt, but have your middleman do the auth |
| 01:02.18 | JeffM2501 | for the end users it would be better then we have now, since bzbb logins would work on the wiki |
| 01:02.21 | JeffM2501 | and that is a good thing |
| 01:02.27 | AAA_awright | For password, you would use the group manager, everything else, phpbb3 |
| 01:02.44 | AAA_awright | In the database I have an email and language field, because MediaWiki allows you to populate the fields from a plugin like that |
| 01:02.46 | JeffM2501 | AAA_awright, but group manager gets it's user data from the phpbb database. |
| 01:03.14 | JeffM2501 | we have to keep the auth info in the phpbb database for now cus of the list server |
| 01:03.28 | JeffM2501 | I don't mind it doing a loopback to the phpbb database right now |
| 01:03.42 | JeffM2501 | sure it's not the most efficent, but it's only untill we take the logins out of phpbb |
| 01:04.44 | JeffM2501 | if your patch takes the users out of phpbb, we loose list server |
| 01:05.20 | JeffM2501 | so while having phpbb ask GM for the auth info instead of looking it up is great, we'll have to have GM just look back into the phpbb for that info for now |
| 01:05.20 | AAA_awright | I am thinking on how to solve that... How do we plan to make bzauthd reverse compatible? |
| 01:05.29 | Constitution | the list server could be plugged into the group manager's auth and data layers too... that was kinda the whole idea, to make those interfaces generic so they're available to multiple services |
| 01:05.37 | JeffM2501 | Constitution, true |
| 01:05.45 | JeffM2501 | that's just more work, and nothing AAA_awright mentioned |
| 01:05.52 | AAA_awright | Initially I was writing a reverse compatible list server that integrates too |
| 01:06.08 | spldart | bugQ: Have you gotten your valgrind and other testing issues sorted yet? And can I ask for a mild elaboration on your "semantic testing" comment in the blog :) |
| 01:06.17 | JeffM2501 | then if we take the users out of phpbb and put them in GMs own database, we NEED a user manager for GM to handle the day to day "forgot my password" stuff |
| 01:06.38 | JeffM2501 | so I'm just lookling at what we can do to shoehorn this thing in now, so we can incrementaly add to it |
| 01:06.48 | JeffM2501 | incremental change is easier to do then big changes |
| 01:07.17 | JeffM2501 | based on what you all have told me so far, we don't have a user manager in GM, so we can't take the users out of BB |
| 01:07.30 | JeffM2501 | since BB is the only user manager we have |
| 01:08.18 | AAA_awright | I think the idea was to write a new user manager anyways |
| 01:08.25 | JeffM2501 | I do like and understand about getting it all to use a common auth interface, I just dont' see how we can do it right now |
| 01:08.31 | JeffM2501 | AAA_awright, sure that's the evntual goal |
| 01:08.35 | bugQ | spldart: semantic testing = finding bugs that don't have to do with fatal errors |
| 01:08.42 | bugQ | dinner time, can we talk later? |
| 01:08.57 | JeffM2501 | AAA_awright, I'm just trying to see what we can do BEFORE that manager is writen |
| 01:09.24 | AAA_awright | It appears that would be the first step |
| 01:09.33 | spldart | Ok... but I meant further elaboration... after dinner though |
| 01:09.55 | JeffM2501 | what would be? write a Usermanager? or add in the common compoennt, and just make it loopback to the existing database? |
| 01:10.30 | AAA_awright | The GM would be part of a new list server |
| 01:11.02 | JeffM2501 | not really, it would just work with it |
| 01:11.09 | JeffM2501 | they would have a comunication channel |
| 01:11.14 | JeffM2501 | and work on the same data |
| 01:11.16 | AAA_awright | Yeah |
| 01:11.21 | JeffM2501 | but I see them as seperate applications |
| 01:11.34 | AAA_awright | They would be using seperate data layers |
| 01:11.39 | JeffM2501 | they have different goals |
| 01:12.13 | JeffM2501 | so your patch for group manager has it read users from it's own local database right? |
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| 01:12.57 | AAA_awright | Yes. I made a few small changes copied from the existing phpbb2 data layer to do that. |
| 01:13.25 | JeffM2501 | ok, woudl your patch for the wiki work on the existing GM auth stuff that uses phpbb? |
| 01:13.43 | AAA_awright | Yes it would |
| 01:13.51 | AAA_awright | I haven't tested it, but it should |
| 01:14.04 | JeffM2501 | cool, so the first thign we could do is get a GM installed on .bz, and patch the wiki to use that |
| 01:14.12 | JeffM2501 | then that makes the wiki basicly use phbpp logins |
| 01:14.19 | JeffM2501 | a good thing |
| 01:14.50 | JeffM2501 | then we can patch phpbb to use GM, and just let GM read back into the phpbb db |
| 01:15.02 | JeffM2501 | then nothing changes for the user, but our middleman is in place |
| 01:15.06 | JeffM2501 | another good thing |
| 01:15.19 | JeffM2501 | then ether, we finish a GM based user manager, or finish ldap |
| 01:15.26 | AAA_awright | phpbb2 would have to have major internal changes, it doesn't support any sort of authentication plugin interface |
| 01:15.48 | JeffM2501 | AAA_awright, I mean when we upgrade to phpbb3 |
| 01:15.50 | AAA_awright | "patch" phpbb2 basically means upgrade to phpbb3 |
| 01:15.54 | JeffM2501 | noone wants to work on 2 :) |
| 01:15.58 | JeffM2501 | yeah that's fine |
| 01:16.00 | AAA_awright | I figured |
| 01:16.04 | JeffM2501 | we have full plants to upgrade to 3 |
| 01:16.23 | JeffM2501 | so I say test your media wiki patch with the current GM |
| 01:16.33 | JeffM2501 | once that is working, get that to donny_baker and have him apply it |
| 01:16.38 | JeffM2501 | that'll be a good test of it all |
| 01:16.48 | JeffM2501 | and get rid of one set of logins |
| 01:16.58 | JeffM2501 | then we look forward to the phpbb3 change and whatever gets done next |
| 01:18.06 | JeffM2501 | that also gets us a functional GM to putter with using the live data |
| 01:20.43 | AAA_awright | This means finishing the group manager then putting it up on the website |
| 01:20.59 | JeffM2501 | it just means putting it on the website, |
| 01:21.01 | AAA_awright | Do we need working group management? |
| 01:21.03 | JeffM2501 | not finishing it |
| 01:21.13 | JeffM2501 | no, all you need for this part is JUST that auth part |
| 01:21.30 | JeffM2501 | if we don't link to any other part of the GM, who cares that it dosnt' work' |
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| 01:21.44 | JeffM2501 | we can do it all in baby steps :) |
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| 01:25.31 | AAA_awright | Constitution: I don't want to ruin your repo, I would personally check out a fresh copy, then apply http://aaa.busyflag.org/singlesignon_groupmanager/groupmanager.diff |
| 01:26.26 | JeffM2501 | AAA_awright, please don't bug him for stuff like that, he has a lot to do with the SoC |
| 01:26.29 | AAA_awright | Worst case, you will need to "mv file.inc.php file.inc" then "svn mv --force file.inc file.inc.php" |
| 01:26.36 | JeffM2501 | any of us can do patches |
| 01:26.50 | JeffM2501 | I would recomend working with blast on them |
| 01:27.15 | AAA_awright | right |
| 01:31.02 | a_meteorite | ~bz20svn |
| 01:31.03 | ibot | somebody said bz20svn was http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN and svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/branches/v2_0branch/bzflag |
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| 01:43.58 | JeffM2501 | AAA_awright, your patch does not seem to be valid, it changes the names of calls to things in auth.class.inc.php but does not include any changes for those. So you have calls to GetBZID, but the auth class still only has getUserID |
| 01:44.24 | AAA_awright | O.o |
| 01:44.41 | JeffM2501 | nothing in the diff mentions the includes |
| 01:44.50 | JeffM2501 | perhaps it's bese you uses SVN and renamed them? |
| 01:45.49 | AAA_awright | svn diff is reporting the change |
| 01:46.39 | JeffM2501 | I'm lookin at the text of the diff, and I don't see anything that changes getUserID to getBZID in side of the auth include |
| 01:46.54 | AAA_awright | It isn't in my diff file, huh |
| 01:48.12 | AAA_awright | Wait, yes it is |
| 01:48.22 | JeffM2501 | what line? |
| 01:51.02 | AAA_awright | I just overwrote it |
| 01:51.08 | AAA_awright | it contains "public function getBZID() {" |
| 01:52.02 | JeffM2501 | the diff file I got from your link does not contain the word public |
| 01:53.32 | AAA_awright | The entire line I have is "\tpublic function getBZID() {\n" |
| 01:53.54 | JeffM2501 | what line number? |
| 01:54.17 | JeffM2501 | heck I searched for func and only find 2 cases, for an include |
| 01:55.09 | AAA_awright | O.o What are you searching again? |
| 01:55.15 | JeffM2501 | the diff file |
| 01:55.19 | JeffM2501 | groupmanger.diff |
| 01:55.37 | JeffM2501 | from http://aaa.busyflag.org/singlesignon_groupmanager/groupmanager.diff |
| 01:56.24 | AAA_awright | Hm. I updated the dump, try it again. I can grep search for it |
| 01:57.19 | JeffM2501 | yes that's different now |
| 01:57.32 | JeffM2501 | I'll work on it tomorow |
| 01:57.39 | AAA_awright | k |
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| 02:07.52 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |
| 02:08.51 | CIA-36 | BZFlag: 03bugQ * r18256 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/webadmin/templates/group.tmpl: group checkboxes should never be checked |
| 02:09.52 | Thumper_ | hey bugQ did you get my botmail and comment on your blog? |
| 02:10.13 | bugQ | I got the botmail, didn't see the comment |
| 02:10.20 | Thumper_ | bzflag.bz has valgrind |
| 02:10.36 | bugQ | oh, cool |
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| 02:50.52 | whodaman- | ~a_meteorite++ |
| 02:51.09 | a_meteorite | CAN is great |
| 02:51.43 | whodaman- | . |
| 02:53.13 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=Jeff@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
| 02:59.38 | Swigg | is CAN still alive? |
| 02:59.53 | whodaman- | I guess :) |
| 03:00.11 | Swigg | I remember it receiving much fanfare months ago but not so much lately |
| 03:00.32 | Swigg | Met: Comment? |
| 03:02.25 | JeffM | it had fanfare? where? |
| 03:04.10 | whodaman- | lol |
| 03:04.28 | whodaman- | JeffM, #bzfx - where it all goes down! |
| 03:04.38 | JeffM | rrrrriiiiggghghhhhttt |
| 03:04.44 | whodaman- | ;) |
| 03:04.45 | JeffM | one channel/person does a fair not fan |
| 03:04.49 | whodaman- | lol |
| 03:05.07 | Flash | bleeds all over Lukstr's blog and code |
| 03:05.10 | Lukstr | yay |
| 03:05.17 | whodaman- | :p |
| 03:05.45 | Lukstr | Flash: First off, I agree with the using. I did it because I wanted to be lazy :) |
| 03:05.50 | Lukstr | normally I do full qualifying |
| 03:07.10 | Flash | being lazy has a habit of biting you in the nether regions later |
| 03:07.43 | Lukstr | Flash: re line 24: I agree that it's weird and confusing, BUT... in the Boost::Spirit documentation that's the only way they show |
| 03:08.09 | Lukstr | it passes two IteratorT's that are the beginning and end of a string |
| 03:08.09 | Flash | what does that mean? |
| 03:08.29 | Flash | so it should be std::string::const_iterator, not a template |
| 03:08.47 | Lukstr | but they specifically say it might not be that |
| 03:09.00 | Flash | and what happens if I pass two floats? |
| 03:09.04 | Lukstr | magic |
| 03:09.12 | Flash | death and destruction |
| 03:09.19 | Lukstr | 10 pages of errors |
| 03:09.58 | Lukstr | Hm, the AddXxx structures were Functors for the other functions |
| 03:10.07 | JeffM | a float is not an iterator so it should not compile |
| 03:10.35 | Flash | it's a template function, it takes arbitrary types (but it won't compile) |
| 03:10.50 | JeffM | depends what the template was defined at then |
| 03:11.10 | JeffM | it's a method in a templated class, when it's used it'll have a type from the constructor |
| 03:11.40 | Flash | template <typename T> void operator()( T a, T b ) const |
| 03:12.02 | JeffM | so if you define it with a float, it should work |
| 03:12.04 | JeffM | does it not? |
| 03:12.18 | Flash | except it constructs std::string(a, b) |
| 03:12.44 | JeffM | as a return value? |
| 03:12.58 | JeffM | well lets get to this. what is your point on it? |
| 03:13.41 | JeffM | because our boy Lukstr hasn't checked a THING in 21 days |
| 03:13.45 | JeffM | 3 WEEKS |
| 03:13.50 | JeffM | and he needs to get his butt in gear |
| 03:13.58 | JeffM | cus it's well past failure time |
| 03:14.07 | Flash | my point was that it shouldn't be a template function if it has constrained types |
| 03:14.18 | JeffM | is it part of boost? |
| 03:14.23 | Flash | no, his code |
| 03:14.31 | JeffM | then fix it after he commits it |
| 03:14.37 | JeffM | Lukstr: you need to do something. NOW |
| 03:14.51 | Lukstr | Alright. |
| 03:14.57 | JeffM | 3 weeks |
| 03:15.02 | JeffM | boost was suposed to make this faster |
| 03:15.08 | JeffM | and it hasn't |
| 03:15.13 | Lukstr | Indeed |
| 03:15.33 | JeffM | does your current code compile? |
| 03:15.40 | Lukstr | yes |
| 03:16.04 | JeffM | then check that stuff in |
| 03:16.09 | Flash | I was enamored of boost when I first found out about it, but it's like ACE... you have to commit whole-hog to the framework |
| 03:16.11 | JeffM | check in every little change you make |
| 03:16.24 | JeffM | I want to see evereything you do |
| 03:16.40 | JeffM | your in a branch, so just commit as you go |
| 03:17.05 | Lukstr | Alright. I'll check it in. The reason I didn't check this file in because I was just trying to learn spirit. |
| 03:17.21 | JeffM | so you keep saying |
| 03:17.27 | JeffM | but that dosn't mean you can't commit as you go |
| 03:17.31 | Lukstr | okay |
| 03:17.38 | JeffM | and let others review and help you with it |
| 03:17.42 | Lukstr | but this file serves no purpose but for reference for now |
| 03:17.42 | JeffM | this is NOT a school project |
| 03:17.47 | JeffM | who cares |
| 03:17.50 | JeffM | it shows you are working |
| 03:18.03 | JeffM | not all code that is commited has to stay |
| 03:18.05 | JeffM | it comes it coes |
| 03:18.12 | JeffM | development is dynamic |
| 03:18.20 | JeffM | but as long as you horde it, noone else can see it |
| 03:18.34 | JeffM | we aren't looking for a finsihed thing on some deadline |
| 03:18.39 | JeffM | we want to see how you work |
| 03:18.45 | Lukstr | so where do your propose I put this parser.cpp? |
| 03:18.56 | JeffM | whever you want |
| 03:18.58 | JeffM | dosn't matter |
| 03:19.13 | JeffM | it can move if needed |
| 03:19.16 | JeffM | pick something and do it |
| 03:19.30 | JeffM | please treat this like your job, not a class asignment |
| 03:20.02 | Lukstr | I am trying to |
| 03:20.10 | CIA-36 | BZFlag: 03lukstr * r18257 10/branches/gsoc_libbzw/src/world/parser.cpp: Added Proof-of-concept parser code |
| 03:20.19 | JeffM | except you are going off and doing things for weeks at a time |
| 03:20.28 | JeffM | rather then doing it all interactivly using your version controll system |
| 03:20.47 | JeffM | do not fear the commit :) |
| 03:21.05 | Lukstr | I don't, I just didn't realize this was... well commit-worthy isn't really the proper phrase |
| 03:21.14 | Lukstr | but, I didn't realize this was code-base worthy I suppose |
| 03:21.19 | JeffM | dude, a newline is commit worthy |
| 03:21.28 | JeffM | that's why you arn't treating it like a job |
| 03:21.31 | Foo_man_choo | commit = fun and friendly :) |
| 03:21.38 | JeffM | it's not what is in it, it is that it changes |
| 03:22.00 | JeffM | I mean at least now I know you wern't off watching movies for 3 weeks |
| 03:22.04 | Foo_man_choo | Stack the dominoes in the commits... you can always vary, modify, change whateva |
| 03:23.25 | JeffM | so, how functional is the boost based parser? and do you like it. Do you think it makes it easier to maintain and code with? |
| 03:23.30 | JeffM | or is it not worht it? |
| 03:23.45 | Lukstr | Well. It's hard to say |
| 03:24.01 | JeffM | I'm not looking for a definitive answer, just how you feel |
| 03:24.12 | Lukstr | I think it's worth it because if you wanted to completely revamp the language, turn it into who-cares, then it would be a cakewalk for someone who knows spirit |
| 03:24.12 | JeffM | did boost make it easier? |
| 03:24.34 | JeffM | we don't want to remvamp the language |
| 03:24.36 | JeffM | we never did |
| 03:24.41 | JeffM | we wanted to make a parser for what we have |
| 03:24.47 | JeffM | do you think that boost makes that easier to maintain |
| 03:24.50 | JeffM | for ANY developer |
| 03:24.55 | JeffM | wether they know spirit or not |
| 03:24.59 | Lukstr | Yes I think? |
| 03:25.04 | Lukstr | if I understand the question |
| 03:25.18 | JeffM | will it take each developer 3 weeks to learn the library? |
| 03:25.19 | Foo_man_choo | Grr... another communication failure causing possible wasted effort?! |
| 03:25.28 | JeffM | Foo_man_choo: it's fine |
| 03:25.39 | JeffM | it's part of development |
| 03:25.45 | JeffM | not everything is perfect |
| 03:25.48 | JeffM | 1.8 anyone? |
| 03:25.57 | Lukstr | JeffM: hopefully not.. I don't know, first looks gave me the impression it was almost lex/yacc |
| 03:26.09 | JeffM | Lukstr: and what do you think it is now? |
| 03:26.09 | Lukstr | but like Boost, Spirit has its quirks |
| 03:26.26 | Lukstr | Well I think it's delicious, but that's because in my mind it IS lex/yacc |
| 03:26.34 | Lukstr | but coming at it it's bizarre looking |
| 03:26.45 | JeffM | yes it is very bizare looking |
| 03:26.56 | Lukstr | It's an bad choice because 99% of devs will stare at it confused |
| 03:27.10 | JeffM | a fair opinion |
| 03:27.25 | JeffM | so then in your mind how do you want to procede? |
| 03:28.14 | JeffM | we have 18 days left on the project |
| 03:28.23 | JeffM | what do you feel you can get done in that time |
| 03:28.41 | Lukstr | I see it as two paths. One (the "simple" way out) is too basically hack together a parser similar to what currently exists, and just abstract stuff into a lib rather than re-design it |
| 03:28.53 | JeffM | ok |
| 03:28.57 | JeffM | and the other? |
| 03:29.45 | Lukstr | and the second is continue down the path of parser.cpp, which is to create a (hopefully) nice interface to manage BZW's which would be much more flexible than the current one, at the cost of... some hard to read parts |
| 03:30.01 | JeffM | hard to read means unmaintainable |
| 03:30.16 | JeffM | what is the disadvantage of the first method? |
| 03:30.40 | Lukstr | imho, not as nicely organized/designed |
| 03:30.51 | JeffM | so "pretty" |
| 03:30.56 | Lukstr | yeah |
| 03:30.57 | brlcad | what makes it hard to read? |
| 03:30.58 | JeffM | something that dosn't realy matter |
| 03:31.14 | JeffM | in 18 days how far do you think you can get with method 1? |
| 03:32.01 | Lukstr | I reckon the time-results ratio for either option would be the same, roughly |
| 03:32.25 | JeffM | I wanted to know how far you think you can get |
| 03:32.35 | JeffM | in 18 days what do you expect the parser to do |
| 03:32.38 | JeffM | functionaly? |
| 03:33.02 | Lukstr | read a bzw from stream, create objects for the server |
| 03:33.22 | JeffM | impressive |
| 03:33.28 | Lukstr | brlcad: http://slexy.org/view/s2aMTPJCLM line 258 |
| 03:33.47 | JeffM | I hope you'll forgive my hesetance to belive you based on your past performance |
| 03:34.05 | JeffM | but what method you perfer to do? boost or not boost? |
| 03:34.09 | JeffM | that is the question ;) |
| 03:34.20 | Lukstr | Indeed and I have been thinking about it quite a bit |
| 03:34.43 | JeffM | with 18 days, you'll need to decide very quick |
| 03:35.02 | JeffM | when do you estimate you'll make your choice? |
| 03:35.07 | Lukstr | From a project-wide standpoint, boost is an added dependancy, adds some maintainability issues, increases compile time somewhat |
| 03:35.12 | Lukstr | I can make it right now, I guess |
| 03:35.16 | Lukstr | going to think out loud |
| 03:35.36 | Lukstr | From a developer standpoint, Boost makes life a little easier and there's a little less code floating around |
| 03:35.47 | JeffM | how does it make it easier?' |
| 03:36.22 | brlcad | Lukstr: I'm still not seeing what makes that hard to read? |
| 03:36.31 | Lukstr | brlcad: well then there's no problem! :P |
| 03:36.53 | JeffM | took you 3 weeks to learn it, and you are like educated in C++. I have none of that schooling so I would expect it to take me a lot longer. |
| 03:37.13 | brlcad | aside from it not conforming to our style, it looks like a list of lexer entities and their associated lexings |
| 03:38.00 | JeffM | would you rather stick with boost brlcad ? |
| 03:38.26 | brlcad | unless you mean knowing what to write .. I can see that being harder if you don't know the api, but that's the same for either option |
| 03:38.29 | Flash | votes no |
| 03:38.45 | JeffM | never said it was a vote ;) |
| 03:38.47 | Flash | we have a hard enough with the STL |
| 03:38.53 | JeffM | no we don't |
| 03:38.57 | Flash | that doesn't mean I CAN'T vote |
| 03:38.58 | JeffM | stl is great |
| 03:39.03 | JeffM | I know |
| 03:39.13 | JeffM | and it dosnt' mean I can't tell you that it isn't a voate ;) |
| 03:39.39 | Lukstr | Well, wait |
| 03:39.44 | Lukstr | there's a third path I kind of forgot |
| 03:40.19 | Flash | holds his breath and turns blue |
| 03:40.21 | Lukstr | parser.cpp is kind of a two-in-one.... project, it parses and stores all the data, it's capable of registering objects with properties and whatnot |
| 03:40.23 | brlcad | JeffM: hm, I don't particularly care about "boost", but whether to use spirit or not -- really depends how far along it is |
| 03:40.42 | Lukstr | I could always plob in a bzw parser (hard-coded, more or less) in Spirit |
| 03:40.53 | Lukstr | s/plob/plob/ |
| 03:40.53 | brlcad | since having a formal parser in place is a little more work up front, but it almost always leads to a better parser that is more easily maintained |
| 03:40.56 | Lukstr | woops |
| 03:41.05 | JeffM | brlcad: from what I can see they are both at about the same point, doing not much. |
| 03:41.07 | brlcad | it's just an api if you don't write parsers, which is no different than custom |
| 03:41.15 | JeffM | ok |
| 03:41.23 | brlcad | but if you know parsers, there's additional information about the structures and associations too |
| 03:41.44 | JeffM | then Lukstr make your call on it, but you need to do a lot more public work IMHO. I'd like to see multiple daily commits from you. |
| 03:42.11 | brlcad | custom on the other hand is a lot quicker to get started with and is basically what we already have - move the code out of src/bzfs into a lib, refactor a few funcs, done |
| 03:42.28 | JeffM | well we arn't hurting for a parser lib |
| 03:42.39 | JeffM | as noone is realy working on workbench |
| 03:42.50 | brlcad | that's why I don't see a lot of value in the lib if it's not actually any better |
| 03:42.56 | JeffM | so better maintainable code for the future does have value |
| 03:43.00 | JeffM | yes |
| 03:43.02 | brlcad | formalizing its parsing would make it (moderately) better |
| 03:43.20 | JeffM | I'm just worrying that if it took him this long to learn it, how long will it take others to learn to maintain it |
| 03:43.33 | JeffM | trepan syndrome,etcc. |
| 03:44.16 | brlcad | trepan was totally a do-it-from-scratcher ;) |
| 03:44.17 | JeffM | I mean yes our parser can be made better, but there are ways to do that don't involve spirt ether. |
| 03:44.25 | JeffM | brlcad: true |
| 03:44.35 | JeffM | but there is more then one way to confuse the hell out of developers |
| 03:44.43 | JeffM | and using a lib that isn't understood is one way |
| 03:44.44 | brlcad | true dat |
| 03:44.53 | JeffM | 3 weeks to learn a lib scares me |
| 03:44.57 | JeffM | a LOT |
| 03:45.03 | brlcad | I'm not convinced that it's indicative |
| 03:45.10 | JeffM | it may not be |
| 03:45.19 | JeffM | that's why I'm tring to ask the questions |
| 03:46.46 | JeffM | my primary concern right now is to ensure that Lukstr has a clear goal for the next 18 days |
| 03:46.57 | brlcad | Lukstr: looking at what's already in that parser, it actually looks like most of the lexing is done, just leaving parsing into in-memory objects no? |
| 03:47.36 | JeffM | I'll be out for a bit, gotta walk the dogs |
| 03:47.44 | brlcad | you have dogs? |
| 03:47.46 | Lukstr | it parses into in-memory objects |
| 03:47.48 | brlcad | since when? |
| 03:47.54 | JeffM | 3 years |
| 03:47.57 | JeffM | 2 of em |
| 03:47.59 | brlcad | blinks |
| 03:48.02 | JeffM | techicaly not mine |
| 03:48.06 | JeffM | but they live here |
| 03:48.08 | brlcad | oooh |
| 03:48.09 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:48.19 | JeffM | there is a baby here too now |
| 03:48.25 | JeffM | also not mine |
| 03:48.39 | Lukstr | brlcad: all the remains to do is add methods to pull the data OUT of the Parser instance |
| 03:48.49 | Lukstr | or do something with it, it's all there I guess |
| 03:48.56 | Lukstr | maybe I see what you mean now |
| 03:48.57 | JeffM | when I get back it'll be time to ask the same questions to Constitution he's gone 10 days |
| 03:49.25 | Lukstr | runs to get some rations quickly |
| 03:49.29 | brlcad | Lukstr: I meant out of parser land into actual api/geometry/mapdata that I might actually use in an app using this as a lib |
| 03:50.42 | Lukstr | yeah I realize that's what you meant, so yes :) |
| 03:50.54 | Lukstr | it only reads rudimentary bzw files though |
| 03:50.57 | Lukstr | ala the sample |
| 03:51.48 | Lukstr | I'm still not sure if the whole "registering objects" is a smart move |
| 03:52.04 | Lukstr | it's very interactive, but I don't know if that's what you really want in a Parser? |
| 03:52.43 | Lukstr | woah, I just thought of something maybe... |
| 03:53.14 | Lukstr | instead of registering objects the way that it's currently done, I could have a sample object sent and parsed by Spirit |
| 03:53.17 | Lukstr | so you'd do something like |
| 03:54.20 | Lukstr | Parser p; p.registerObject("box [$string]\n size $float $float $float\n ..."); |
| 03:54.26 | Lukstr | of course not all on a line |
| 03:56.37 | Lukstr | maybe that's a bit silly though |
| 03:57.00 | Lukstr | almost like writing a pseudo-parser-maker |
| 03:57.16 | Lukstr | recursive lexer :S |
| 03:58.35 | JeffM | Constitution: how's your stuff comming, do you have any of the shot strat seperated? |
| 03:59.30 | JeffM | hates walking dogs |
| 03:59.40 | Lukstr | is more of a cat person... they walk themselves. |
| 03:59.48 | JeffM | indeed |
| 03:59.51 | JeffM | I used to have 2 |
| 03:59.58 | JeffM | they shed more tho |
| 03:59.59 | Lukstr | mine also poops on the floor, though :( |
| 04:00.16 | Lukstr | he's old and senile, methinks |
| 04:00.34 | JeffM | the owners of these dogs should not have them |
| 04:00.42 | JeffM | they can barely take care of there own stuff |
| 04:01.12 | Lukstr | reminds me of my uni roommates, who all want to get Pet X or Pet Y when they have 50 hours of class+ a week |
| 04:13.45 | Lukstr | Would it be sane to let objects parse themselves similar to the way they do now? As in, create it, hand it a line of text ala "size 10.0 10.0 10.0" and let it figure out what to do with it? |
| 04:14.27 | Lukstr | Box box; box.read("size 10.0 10.0 10.0"); box.read("position 10.0 ... |
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| 04:19.56 | CIA-36 | BZFlag: 03bugQ * r18258 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/webadmin/ (5 files in 2 dirs): |
| 04:19.56 | CIA-36 | BZFlag: corrected form submission URLs |
| 04:19.56 | CIA-36 | BZFlag: found segfaults and other access violations |
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| 04:35.14 | Lukstr | JeffM, others: http://libbzw.blogspot.com/2008/08/world-to-parser-to-objects-to-world.html |
| 04:35.33 | Lukstr | I guess I'll stay aboard the spirit boat |
| 04:36.54 | JeffM | that's fine |
| 04:36.59 | JeffM | I just want you to have a clear goal |
| 04:37.06 | Lukstr | I do |
| 04:37.10 | JeffM | cool |
| 04:37.33 | JeffM | so how many of the next 18 days will you be working? |
| 04:39.07 | Lukstr | 14-15 |
| 04:39.21 | JeffM | fair nuf |
| 04:39.28 | JeffM | I expect to see you commting on those days |
| 04:39.37 | Lukstr | yes |
| 04:39.39 | JeffM | even if you don't think it's "commit worthy" just commit it |
| 04:40.15 | Lukstr | well everything here on out will be commit worthy regardless ;) |
| 04:40.34 | JeffM | because evertyhing IS commit worthy |
| 04:42.40 | JeffM | do you know how much that one commit you made to day was worth? |
| 04:42.51 | Lukstr | uh |
| 04:42.53 | JeffM | 1038.46$ |
| 04:42.55 | Lukstr | 300 odd lines |
| 04:43.02 | Lukstr | I see |
| 04:44.06 | JeffM | it would have been worth only 576.92$ had you not commited it |
| 04:45.03 | Lukstr | sorry to side-track a bit, but how did you calculate that? |
| 04:45.20 | JeffM | you get 4500$ over 13 weeks if you pass |
| 04:45.34 | Lukstr | ohh |
| 04:45.34 | JeffM | so that 3 week commit was worth 1038$ |
| 04:45.38 | Lukstr | that makes sense |
| 04:45.54 | JeffM | if you had not commited it, we would have failed you. and you would not get the last 2000 |
| 04:45.54 | Lukstr | I thought you were maybe using some bizarre formula |
| 04:46.01 | JeffM | so that 3 weeks was worth less |
| 04:46.14 | Lukstr | indeed |
| 04:46.21 | JeffM | it's VERY important to always give your employers reasons to keep paying you ;) |
| 04:46.33 | Lukstr | so very true |
| 04:47.25 | JeffM | you can't always relly on them to know, or ask you |
| 04:47.52 | JeffM | if they forget to, or get busy with other stuff, and it looks like you were slacking, slacking will be assumed |
| 04:48.03 | JeffM | commits are our paper trail |
| 04:48.16 | JeffM | with lots of them there is never any question about what you are doing |
| 04:50.16 | Lukstr | sounds like my last summer job when I made my first commit when my boss showed me the in-house cvs, on my last day of four months... |
| 04:55.03 | brlcad | even without the payments, commits are how all the devs intercommunicate .. so you're just not participating as a dev if you're not committing |
| 04:55.09 | brlcad | and we want you to be a dev :) |
| 04:55.41 | Lukstr | I do too. I do apologise for the lack of... participation in the last few weeks. I spent more time in #boost and ##c++ then here |
| 04:55.59 | brlcad | so you're getting the same finger wagging that we give others when they go off on a tangent and aren't communicating |
| 04:58.09 | JeffM | how do you think I beat TimRiker in rank on ohloh |
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| 05:03.58 | *** topic/#bzflag by JeffM -> http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || 2.0.12 is the latest linux release, 2.0.10 for others || GSoC 2008, mentor blog at http://tanks4code.blogspot.com || GSOC participants: 18 days and counting... get the lead out |
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| 11:36.28 | Constitution | guess there's no ./configure --enable-shard :P |
| 11:52.51 | Constitution | ugh, finally found it... |
| 11:52.57 | Constitution | > // because math is fun and this is used EVERYWHERE |
| 11:52.57 | Constitution | > #define deg2Rad 0.017453292519943295769236907684886f |
| 11:59.49 | jorgenpt | Wat? |
| 11:59.50 | jorgenpt | What |
| 12:03.53 | Constitution | I had trouble figuring out where that was defined... there's a difference between trunk and my branch that was causing a compile error |
| 12:30.02 | jorgenpt | Ah |
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| 17:03.52 | BulletCatcher | The client startup MOTD is back. Yay. |
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| 18:45.39 | brlcad | BulletCatcher: it wasn't working? |
| 18:46.04 | BulletCatcher | For the last few days it was empty. |
| 18:46.11 | brlcad | hum |
| 18:46.15 | brlcad | sounds like a bug |
| 18:46.41 | BulletCatcher | fixed :-) |
| 18:46.43 | brlcad | I just set something new, so that's probably what brought it back |
| 18:46.50 | brlcad | so more like, masked |
| 18:48.41 | BulletCatcher | If you would *play* BZFlag more often you might notice such things. :-p |
| 18:50.58 | brlcad | so true |
| 18:51.19 | brlcad | got suckered into playing astroempires recently |
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| 20:31.28 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || 2.0.12 is the latest linux release, 2.0.10 for others || GSoC 2008, mentor blog at http://tanks4code.blogspot.com || GSOC participants: 18 days and counting... get the lead out |
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| 22:44.40 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 22:59.17 | *** join/#bzflag me1 (n=me1@unaffiliated/me1) |
| 22:59.40 | spldart | hehe |
| 23:16.04 | *** join/#bzflag Danji (n=47031448@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-c2fb2c667cee4952) |
| 23:16.06 | *** join/#bzflag Think_Differentl (n=thinkdif@adsl-75-36-139-179.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:21.24 | *** join/#bzflag zee669 (n=56050282@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-da282fd0e408a1c7) |
| 23:21.30 | *** join/#bzflag Swigg (n=Default@24-197-138-217.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com) |
| 23:22.10 | *** join/#bzflag zee396 (n=56050282@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-4e118b12430b4aec) |
| 23:22.22 | *** join/#bzflag zee472 (n=56050282@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-b07daaf35a1cccd4) |
| 23:22.47 | *** join/#bzflag zee083 (n=56050282@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-52bcc142faf3032e) |
| 23:26.50 | *** join/#bzflag zee539yy (n=56050282@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-b7994661db5d1722) |
| 23:29.26 | zee539yy | het |
| 23:29.30 | zee539yy | hello |
| 23:29.54 | zee539yy | ygu |
| 23:32.20 | blast007 | hi zee539yy |
| 23:32.31 | blast007 | have a question for us? |
| 23:32.37 | zee539yy | hi blast |
| 23:33.18 | zee539yy | is anybody there |
| 23:33.29 | blast007 | yes |
| 23:33.32 | blast007 | what's up? |
| 23:33.44 | zee539yy | im the best |
| 23:34.23 | blast007 | ok |
| 23:34.26 | Think_Differentl | and...? |
| 23:34.26 | blast007 | that's nice |
| 23:34.38 | zee539yy | and im the best |
| 23:34.40 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o blast007] by ChanServ |
| 23:34.55 | Think_Differentl | i'm sure your parents are very proud. |
| 23:35.20 | zee539yy | yeah but they taught me to be the best |
| 23:36.04 | zee539yy | birdie r u there |
| 23:37.28 | zee539yy | is anybody there |
| 23:38.09 | Think_Differentl | no. |
| 23:38.25 | zee539yy | how u know whos online |
| 23:38.39 | blast007 | the user list |
| 23:38.47 | blast007 | but being online doesn't mean they are at their computer |
| 23:39.03 | zee539yy | its dead on here |
| 23:39.14 | Lukstr | *tumbleweed* |
| 23:39.19 | blast007 | okay? did you expect a welcome party? |
| 23:39.23 | zee539yy | yes |
| 23:39.30 | blast007 | then you're in the wrong channel |
| 23:39.49 | zee539yy | welll ewats the point in this then |
| 23:39.50 | blast007 | are you here for a reason? |
| 23:39.59 | blast007 | this is the development channel for BZFlag |
| 23:40.03 | JeffM | this is the development channel |
| 23:40.06 | blast007 | it's just not very active at the moment |
| 23:40.16 | Think_Differentl | points to ##bzchat |
| 23:40.25 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 23:40.39 | zee539yy | what u developing here |
| 23:40.42 | JeffM2501 | bzflag |
| 23:40.49 | JeffM2501 | and standards for proper english |
| 23:41.00 | zee539yy | yeah u need that |
| 23:41.04 | JeffM2501 | no, you do |
| 23:41.08 | JeffM2501 | U is not a word |
| 23:41.12 | zee539yy | u do jeffery |
| 23:41.17 | JeffM2501 | I need to spell better |
| 23:41.23 | JeffM2501 | you need to act like an adult |
| 23:41.28 | zee539yy | u do |
| 23:41.33 | JeffM2501 | are you done? |
| 23:41.33 | Think_Differentl | bad spelling troll is bad at spelling |
| 23:41.56 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@c-68-49-10-243.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 23:42.06 | zee539yy | develop something then i cant see anytrhing |
| 23:42.14 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 23:42.36 | zee539yy | all i see is chat wheres the development |
| 23:42.50 | JeffM2501 | it dosn't happen all the time |
| 23:42.55 | Think_Differentl | zee539yy: you're the reason for the chat. |
| 23:42.56 | CBG | In sane ville. |
| 23:43.01 | JeffM2501 | indeed |
| 23:43.22 | zee539yy | there is a reason for everything |
| 23:43.43 | zee539yy | like me being the best is a reason |
| 23:43.47 | JeffM2501 | true but the reason may not always be what you think |
| 23:43.55 | CBG | What;s the reason for you being such a PITA? |
| 23:44.02 | zee539yy | bread |
| 23:44.10 | JeffM2501 | bye bye |
| 23:44.15 | *** kick/#bzflag [zee539yy!n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501] by JeffM2501 (JeffM2501) |
| 23:44.23 | Winny | reads up |
| 23:46.09 | *** join/#bzflag zee141 (n=56050282@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-2e682fec95143ba3) |
| 23:46.39 | Winny | special |
| 23:47.24 | CBG | I hope he comes back so his ISP bans him from the internet. |
| 23:47.27 | whodaman- | lol |
| 23:47.35 | JeffM2501 | they won't |
| 23:47.42 | blast007 | and he is |
| 23:47.51 | zee141 | wht kick me jeff, |
| 23:48.01 | Winny | zee141: be useful or leave. take your pick. |
| 23:48.12 | JeffM2501 | if you want to chat then take it to #bzchat |
| 23:48.21 | zee141 | ok |
| 23:48.21 | JeffM2501 | if you want to act like a fool, then you will be kicked |
| 23:48.24 | JeffM2501 | it's as simple as that |
| 23:48.36 | zee141 | i didnt act like a fool |
| 23:48.46 | Viza | puts $5 on "will be kicked" |
| 23:48.47 | CBG | you did. |
| 23:49.01 | zee141 | you are all in big trouble |
| 23:49.06 | Think_Differentl | <zee539yy> im the best |
| 23:49.10 | JeffM2501 | why is that? |
| 23:49.15 | zee141 | especially jeff |
| 23:49.21 | zee141 | for racism |
| 23:49.22 | *** mode/#bzflag [+b *!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-2e682fec95143ba3] by JeffM2501 |
| 23:49.22 | *** kick/#bzflag [zee141!n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501] by JeffM2501 (JeffM2501) |
| 23:49.27 | Think_Differentl | JeffM2501: maybe it's cause he's the best! |
| 23:49.29 | Winny | wrong hostban |
| 23:49.45 | JeffM2501 | why wrong? |
| 23:49.51 | blast007 | cuz it won't stop anyone |
| 23:49.53 | Winny | didn't ban the IP |
| 23:50.00 | JeffM2501 | bann all of zee then |
| 23:50.01 | blast007 | that number at the end of there is randm per join |
| 23:50.06 | blast007 | random* |
| 23:50.06 | Winny | yep |
| 23:50.08 | JeffM2501 | stupid zzz |
| 23:50.26 | *** mode/#bzflag [+b #bzflag!*@*] by JeffM2501 |
| 23:50.29 | JeffM2501 | bahh |
| 23:50.35 | blast007 | hehe.. |
| 23:50.35 | Lukstr | O.o |
| 23:50.37 | *** mode/#bzflag [-b #bzflag!*@*] by JeffM2501 |
| 23:50.40 | *** mode/#bzflag [-b *!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-2e682fec95143ba3] by JeffM2501 |
| 23:50.50 | *** mode/#bzflag [+b *!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net*] by JeffM2501 |
| 23:50.59 | JeffM2501 | there |
| 23:51.03 | Winny | :) |
| 23:51.18 | *** mode/#bzflag [-o blast007] by blast007 |
| 23:51.28 | *** join/#bzflag codergeek42 (n=pgordon@fedora/codergeek42) |
| 23:51.29 | JeffM2501 | someone should tell them to remove that webchat |
| 23:51.39 | JeffM2501 | it's never used for good or awesome |
| 23:52.04 | Winny | I'm always amazed that the morons find it |
| 23:52.11 | blast007 | but it was awesome, well, the ban part, at least |
| 23:52.12 | CBG | ausom |
| 23:52.31 | Viza | collects his winnings |
| 23:52.47 | whodaman- | lol Viza |
| 23:55.23 | Thumper_ | hi to |
| 23:56.15 | spldart | man.. I go to buy fishsticks and miss all the fun :( |
| 23:56.35 | Winny | hehe |
| 23:59.12 | *** kick/#bzflag [zee472!n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501] by JeffM2501 (JeffM2501) |