| 00:09.06 | Winny | anyone know a good anti spam toolbar for outlook? My parent's isn't working, heh |
| 00:10.37 | Winny | even something for thunderbird would work |
| 00:14.40 | Think_Differentl | sign them up for gmail and make them use thunderbird? |
| 00:16.19 | Winny | rogers blocks any IMAP or POP traffic not to their own servers |
| 00:16.27 | Winny | it's not very nice. |
| 00:17.08 | Constitution | ew |
| 00:17.27 | Think_Differentl | dang, rogers gets worse and worse each time i hear about them |
| 00:17.29 | AAA_awright | Gmail uses encryption |
| 00:17.38 | AAA_awright | ...I think |
| 00:18.14 | Winny | https. yeah |
| 00:18.30 | AAA_awright | I mean for IMAP |
| 00:19.05 | Think_Differentl | ssl for login iirc |
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| 00:31.59 | Winny | meh, they get thunderbird |
| 00:32.25 | Winny | is tired of outlook's carp |
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| 01:46.48 | Flash | Lukstr: you still there? |
| 01:50.07 | Lukstr | yes |
| 01:51.03 | Flash | ok, on your "virtual" static thing... you guys were closing on the right answer |
| 01:51.22 | Flash | you want a virtual method, not a (const) variable |
| 01:51.47 | Lukstr | right |
| 01:52.20 | Lukstr | so what does the virtual method return? |
| 01:52.37 | Flash | whatever "const" value you want for the class |
| 01:53.09 | Flash | class Foo { public: virtual std::string name() { return "Foo"; } }; |
| 01:53.23 | Lukstr | what about |
| 01:53.28 | Flash | class Bar : public Foo { public: std::string name() { return "Bar"; }}; |
| 01:53.41 | Lukstr | class Foo { public: virtual std::string name() const { return "Foo"; } }; |
| 01:53.55 | Flash | ok, const correct is good |
| 01:54.14 | Lukstr | the thing is it would be slightly more complicated than just a string |
| 01:54.20 | Flash | doesn't matter |
| 01:54.25 | Flash | the concept is what matters |
| 01:54.34 | Lukstr | does that actually guarantee const-ness? |
| 01:54.43 | Flash | if the value returned is variant based on the class, then a virtual method is the way to go |
| 01:54.49 | Lukstr | right |
| 01:55.19 | Flash | Foo::name() const is a promise to the compiler not to modify the state of the object |
| 01:55.28 | Flash | (subject to the use of the "mutable" keyword) |
| 01:55.36 | Flash | (and evil casting) |
| 01:55.50 | Lukstr | so if it's a pointer to a dynamically allocated instance, it's still fine? |
| 01:56.02 | Flash | yes, that's what polymorphism is for |
| 01:56.09 | Flash | Foo* = new Bar; |
| 01:56.12 | Flash | oops |
| 01:56.18 | Flash | Foo* foo = new Bar; |
| 01:56.27 | Flash | foo->name() == "Bar" |
| 01:56.43 | Lukstr | alright |
| 01:56.46 | Lukstr | will do el capitan |
| 01:56.52 | Flash | and for fun, foo->Foo::name() == "Foo" |
| 01:57.04 | Lukstr | should I continue to use virtual if it could be inherited again? |
| 01:57.25 | Flash | once the function is declared virtual in the base class, it is virtual for all derived classes |
| 01:57.33 | Flash | there is no value in declaring it virtual again |
| 01:57.37 | Lukstr | alright |
| 01:57.48 | Flash | also, no harm if you think it add clarity |
| 01:57.56 | Lukstr | indeed, my thoughts exactly |
| 01:59.38 | Flash | now, this all depends on having an actual object |
| 01:59.52 | Flash | there's no such thing as virtual static |
| 01:59.55 | Flash | it doesn't make sense |
| 02:00.03 | Lukstr | yes |
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| 02:00.32 | Lukstr | My whole idea was that I could have each class hold a sort of descriptor inside it so that another class could deal with them |
| 02:00.35 | Lukstr | intelligently |
| 02:01.05 | Flash | be careful about exposing implementation and introducing unnecessary coupling |
| 02:01.33 | Lukstr | I'm weighing my options :P |
| 02:02.37 | Lukstr | it seems I'll probably just scrap all that |
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| 02:03.42 | Flash | to be clear, "classes" don't hold descriptors, "objects" do |
| 02:03.49 | Lukstr | yeah |
| 02:04.13 | Lukstr | the idea was to make a kind of maintainable parsing system where a new parsable class could be introduced whenever, since it would essentially tell the parser all it needs to know |
| 02:04.25 | Flash | that is very doable |
| 02:04.27 | Lukstr | however this introduces some coupling with the parser, which is bad |
| 02:05.04 | Flash | what does it mean to be a parsable class? |
| 02:05.11 | Lukstr | and it may just be wiser to have the parser intrinsically know about the objects |
| 02:05.38 | Lukstr | all it means is they can provide a ParserObject datatype somehow |
| 02:05.50 | Lukstr | So: Parser.registerClass(MyClass.getParserDataObject()); |
| 02:06.05 | Lukstr | er, MyClass::getParserDataObject()); |
| 02:06.25 | Flash | what is a ParserDataObject? |
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| 02:07.08 | Lukstr | just a class containing booleans and strings |
| 02:07.41 | Flash | what I would expect is a Parser class that manages a bunch of objects that know how to parse specific things |
| 02:08.24 | Flash | each parsing class (object) registers itself with the parser manager (object) and it loops over the objects until it finds one that knows how to parse the "thing" under consideration |
| 02:08.59 | Lukstr | yeah |
| 02:09.18 | Lukstr | it won't do any literal looping though |
| 02:09.31 | Flash | how do you match the input to the parser? |
| 02:10.38 | Lukstr | the parser will know what "type" of object it has to read next, so if it's reading a "block" let's say, it will read in a single word, that must be the beginning of a block or there's an error, so it takes the beginning of the block (name of block) and gets the matching parser object out of a map |
| 02:10.48 | Lukstr | then it starts parsing that object |
| 02:10.49 | Lukstr | etc. |
| 02:11.30 | Flash | ok. hash/map/loop is all the same concept: match an input to the object that can handle it |
| 02:11.36 | Lukstr | yeah |
| 02:11.57 | Lukstr | by "literal looping" I mean looping visible to me :P |
| 02:12.05 | Lukstr | I know that business goes on in the map |
| 02:12.10 | Flash | I would make the manager class totally agnostic of the things you can parse |
| 02:12.30 | Flash | let each parsing class do the heavy lifting |
| 02:12.58 | Flash | where things get interesting is the sub-elements of blocks |
| 02:12.58 | Lukstr | essentially |
| 02:13.28 | Flash | in that case, the "block" parser is a mini manager that must know about the parsers that it supports |
| 02:13.29 | Lukstr | well the idea was this is sort of a half-way between Omniscient Parsing and Self-Parsing objects |
| 02:13.44 | Lukstr | Yes, there's roughly 4 possible "objects" to parse |
| 02:14.03 | Lukstr | block, one-line parameter, multi-line raw string data |
| 02:14.15 | Lukstr | I think |
| 02:14.24 | Flash | those are categories of parsers |
| 02:14.29 | Lukstr | yes |
| 02:14.48 | Flash | I presume there are multiple block things and multiple parameters, etc. |
| 02:14.54 | Lukstr | yeah |
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| 02:15.21 | Lukstr | blocks can contain parameters and other blocks, multi-line raw string blocks only contain text |
| 02:16.14 | Flash | can a block contain a multi-line string? |
| 02:16.26 | Lukstr | yes, it's a different type of block |
| 02:16.31 | Lukstr | only can contain multi-line string |
| 02:16.59 | Flash | are you familiar with the composite design pattern? |
| 02:17.24 | Lukstr | yes, I think so |
| 02:17.34 | Lukstr | that's essentially how this works |
| 02:17.37 | Flash | so Parser is your base class |
| 02:17.44 | Flash | BlockParser is the composite |
| 02:17.58 | Flash | ParamParser and StringParser are concrete classes |
| 02:18.04 | Lukstr | yes |
| 02:18.48 | Flash | the question is how to represent the parsed state? |
| 02:18.54 | Lukstr | hrm? |
| 02:19.04 | Flash | as attribute/value tree or C++ instance objects |
| 02:19.24 | Lukstr | Well |
| 02:19.31 | Lukstr | what I was thinking |
| 02:19.36 | Lukstr | is each of those Objects that can be Parsed |
| 02:19.47 | Lukstr | can be constructed from a ParsedObject Data structure or whatever |
| 02:20.02 | Lukstr | let me start over :P |
| 02:21.15 | Lukstr | An Object register it's Default ParserObject for it's Class to the Parser. The Parser, upon parsing such an object, copy-constructs that default parser object and fills in where appropriate. At the end of parsing, the world will iterate through the Parsing Objects the Parser has, and create the Objects by passing the Parsing Objects as parameters to the constructor |
| 02:21.23 | Lukstr | s/register/registers/ |
| 02:21.46 | Flash | ok, so to be specific, this is a World parser |
| 02:21.52 | Lukstr | yes |
| 02:21.59 | Flash | what kind of objects make up a World |
| 02:22.30 | Lukstr | Repeatable physical objects, groups and information objects like World and Option |
| 02:22.52 | Flash | specifically, what kind of physical objects and information objects? |
| 02:23.20 | Lukstr | http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZW |
| 02:23.27 | Lukstr | if you want the in-depth answer to that question |
| 02:24.25 | Flash | ok, so for each object type, you will want a parser class that can construct the object from the parsed result |
| 02:24.53 | Lukstr | sort of |
| 02:25.09 | Flash | I would not think "sort of", I'd think exactly |
| 02:25.22 | Lukstr | the parser isn't constructing anything though |
| 02:25.40 | Flash | syntactic parsing is easy; the semantic parsing is where you need to construct objects |
| 02:25.46 | Lukstr | yes |
| 02:26.07 | Flash | there probably is little value in separating the two for such a trivial syntax |
| 02:26.19 | Lukstr | not incredibly trivial as it may first appear |
| 02:28.21 | Flash | you may be right, but it looks more tedious than complex |
| 02:28.27 | Lukstr | heh |
| 02:28.44 | Lukstr | there's things like groups and materials to worry about |
| 02:29.19 | Flash | just composites of other primitives, aren't they? |
| 02:29.32 | Lukstr | sort of |
| 02:29.50 | Lukstr | they do some of their own fancy stuff too |
| 02:30.14 | Lukstr | But your point about seperating the two is what I'm trying to decide |
| 02:30.29 | Lukstr | writing just a straight-up parser is my back up plan |
| 02:31.14 | Flash | there's no need to brute-force it; your concept of parsing classes is good; I've done it before for a similar problem |
| 02:31.23 | Lukstr | so have I |
| 02:31.31 | Lukstr | but that problem was much simpler |
| 02:31.48 | Lukstr | no composites |
| 02:32.03 | Flash | composites are only marginally more complex |
| 02:32.25 | Flash | it still works |
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| 04:56.47 | bugQ | it's been said that if you go past 3 levels of indentation, you're screwed... |
| 04:56.52 | bugQ | I'm finding that generally true |
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| 05:17.01 | Lukstr | bugQ: O.o that's the most insane thing I've ever heard |
| 05:33.36 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: 03bugQ * r18091 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/webadmin/ (5 files in 2 dirs): |
| 05:33.36 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: interface for server variables |
| 05:33.36 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: rearranged DOM identifiers |
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| 05:39.48 | bugQ | ok then. |
| 05:43.43 | BulletCatcher | yay, SourceForge |
| 05:46.58 | ruskie | lol... you can go through more levels of indentaion... but it would be wiso to reduce tab to something like 2 instead of 8 chars... |
| 05:51.07 | Lukstr | Anyone want to help me with a bizarre STL question? |
| 05:51.28 | mibs | what's STL lol |
| 05:51.53 | Lukstr | standard template library |
| 06:03.04 | BulletCatcher | ~ask |
| 06:03.05 | ibot | somebody said ask was Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. |
| 06:13.29 | Lukstr | BulletCatcher: no worries, asking in #c++ |
| 06:21.23 | BulletCatcher | ~Lukstr++ |
| 06:22.15 | Lukstr | heh |
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| 08:51.20 | mib_b4k29x | i have found a bug which no one may care about |
| 08:51.28 | mib_b4k29x | in 2.0.10 |
| 08:52.04 | mib_b4k29x | the score system sort of breaks down when it goes very high |
| 08:52.19 | mib_b4k29x | normalized score and kills become wrong |
| 08:52.39 | mib_b4k29x | normalized more than 1.00, kills become negative and hence score |
| 08:53.15 | mib_b4k29x | i also found out something more interesting |
| 08:53.22 | mib_b4k29x | that i'm talking to no one |
| 08:54.05 | Constitution | how can your normalized score be greater than 1.0? |
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| 08:54.23 | mib_b4k29x | well actually it becomes negative, not more than 1 |
| 08:54.34 | mib_b4k29x | i had a normalized of -9xx.x |
| 08:54.43 | Constitution | what was your score? |
| 08:54.49 | Constitution | kills/deaths |
| 08:54.58 | mib_b4k29x | after the bug: |
| 08:55.10 | mib_b4k29x | my score was -2xxxx |
| 08:55.20 | mib_b4k29x | and my kills were -2xxxx |
| 08:55.24 | mib_b4k29x | and deaths 8x |
| 08:55.40 | mib_b4k29x | (x replaces an unremembered figure) |
| 08:56.54 | mib_b4k29x | the score jumped from somewhere between 22000 and 30000 to -something |
| 08:57.58 | Constitution | how did your score get that high? |
| 08:58.41 | mib_b4k29x | private server |
| 08:58.50 | mib_b4k29x | well idk if private is the right term |
| 08:58.54 | mib_b4k29x | local or whatever |
| 08:59.56 | Constitution | probably ran into a variable precision error when it got that high |
| 09:01.10 | mib_b4k29x | somwhere from 22k to 30k? |
| 09:01.20 | mib_b4k29x | doesn't sound like a 2^something number |
| 09:02.33 | mib_b4k29x | it could have been 32k if i was in mars |
| 09:35.52 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: 03wyk3d * r18092 10/trunk/bzauthd/ (11 files in 4 dirs): |
| 09:35.52 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: * Fixed some bugs, memory leaks and crashes in the registration code, RSA code, net code |
| 09:35.52 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: * Wrote test code for registration |
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| 09:54.36 | brlcad | space restored.... |
| 10:01.41 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o brlcad] by ChanServ |
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| 11:22.50 | kierra | brlcad ping |
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| 11:31.12 | brlcad | huh, access denied on editMOTD |
| 11:32.53 | Wyk3d | can CIA do feeds for a certain user for a specific project (not just project or user) ? |
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| 11:40.42 | brlcad | ah, editMOTD had a typo, all better now |
| 11:48.36 | brlcad | so kierra left, but does anyone know if there was a winner for 1vs1? was it wizard? looks like two semifinalists were a no-show |
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| 12:05.55 | Manu | brlcad: I asked her... wait for a response ;) |
| 12:20.00 | Manu | brlcad: http://1vs1.bzleague.com/contest08_standings.php |
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| 12:39.22 | brlcad | Manu: I saw that, hence my no-show comment |
| 12:43.57 | Manu | brlcad: so will be DestructionBoy or Silent Assassin :) |
| 12:45.58 | QuantumZin | hello guys : ) |
| 12:46.10 | QuantumZin | very creepy greeting from me |
| 12:47.53 | brlcad | Manu: well if I understood the rules, they missed they're competition so they're disqualified |
| 12:48.26 | Manu | brlcad: ***The semifinal of Sai And DB is scheduled to Friday, 12.30 UTC, 14.30 german time, both players agreed on this new deadline*** |
| 12:48.30 | Manu | may be not |
| 12:49.38 | Manu | tomorrow :) |
| 12:49.48 | brlcad | ah, true |
| 12:50.17 | Manu | tomorrow 14.30 UTC +1 :) |
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| 12:54.12 | kierra | brlcad: the 1v1 tourney is not over |
| 12:54.32 | Manu | kierra: too late :) |
| 12:54.58 | kierra | did you fill him in? |
| 12:55.06 | Manu | yes I guess ;) |
| 12:55.21 | kierra | ty, Manu |
| 12:55.40 | kierra | I didnt mean to appear rude by just popping in and out |
| 12:55.41 | Manu | np :) |
| 12:56.02 | kierra | brlcad is usually pretty busy....i feel guilty bothering him |
| 12:56.36 | Manu | kierra: yes, the 'b' in brlcad means busy ;) |
| 12:58.53 | brlcad | kierra: it's fine, never a both |
| 12:58.57 | brlcad | *bother |
| 12:59.10 | Manu | :) |
| 12:59.41 | kierra | ty, brlcad |
| 12:59.48 | kierra | you're a peach |
| 13:00.01 | brlcad | spoiled rotten? |
| 13:00.04 | Manu | lol |
| 13:00.07 | kierra | nvr |
| 13:00.13 | kierra | just right! |
| 13:00.20 | kierra | sweet |
| 13:00.49 | brlcad | well ty, not deserved but appreciated |
| 13:00.56 | brlcad | so the last competition is today/tomorrow? |
| 13:01.17 | brlcad | send me a note for whomever wins and I'll announce it |
| 13:01.32 | Manu | brlcad: the web page says tomorrow no? |
| 13:02.47 | brlcad | for tomorrow or by tomorrow? |
| 13:03.22 | Manu | it says to Friday |
| 13:03.46 | Manu | but tomorrow or next week... or next year? :) |
| 13:06.30 | Manu | goes for lunch |
| 13:19.03 | kierra | will do, brlcad |
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| 13:30.44 | QuantumZin | trying to learn german here shh :D |
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| 15:12.39 | QuantumZin | . |
| 15:14.04 | brad | . |
| 15:14.15 | spldart | . |
| 15:15.05 | pacman87 | mmmm, more dots to eat :) |
| 15:15.14 | Lukstr | QuantumZin, brad and spldart are: TEAM ELLIPSIS |
| 15:15.32 | spldart | hehe |
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| 15:27.57 | QuantumZin | nlol team elipsis |
| 15:29.01 | QuantumZin | calls it the greastest,best,and always elite! "The Dot Team" : ) |
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| 17:01.36 | blast007 | bugQ: howdy. What ya working on at the moment? |
| 17:01.53 | bugQ | backend of the stuff I added yesterday |
| 17:03.52 | blast007 | and how is that going for you? any issues with the implementation? |
| 17:04.21 | bugQ | I might have questions soon |
| 17:04.27 | blast007 | okay, good |
| 17:06.15 | bugQ | oh, here's one: is there a way to find the type of a bzdb var? |
| 17:07.07 | bugQ | double, string, etc |
| 17:07.23 | blast007 | I think they're all stored as strings anyway |
| 17:07.29 | bugQ | oh, even better |
| 17:07.58 | blast007 | because even if they're pulled back as a double or float, they can contain simple math equations or references to other variables |
| 17:08.29 | blast007 | example: _boxHeight defaults to 6.0*_muzzleHeight |
| 17:09.20 | bugQ | oh neat! I thought that was just how it was initialized |
| 17:09.42 | blast007 | afaik, that's how it works |
| 17:10.16 | bugQ | what happens when it can't be evaluated? |
| 17:10.31 | blast007 | you probably get "fun" results |
| 17:11.03 | blast007 | that would be something to test, even via a regular client |
| 17:11.51 | brlcad | yeah, don't feed it something that can't be evaluated :) |
| 17:12.20 | bugQ | I'd just have to trust the user's input |
| 17:12.29 | brlcad | it is all serialized to strings, so it's up to the caller to know that it's expecting a certain data type via the routines it uses (getFloat() etc) |
| 17:13.19 | blast007 | "/set _tankSpeed :)" used to (?) crash clients |
| 17:13.27 | brlcad | i've abused it in the past where a pointer is stored in bzdb, later extracted elsewhere in the code |
| 17:15.15 | brlcad | if you get into a tricky situation, some checking can/does occur in bzdb itself during set -- so if it can't match, maybe it sets the var empty or evaluates to NaN, etc then it's up to the code that pulls the value out to do basic checking on the result |
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| 18:09.24 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: 03wyk3d * r18093 10/trunk/bzauthd/ (5 files in 2 dirs): |
| 18:09.24 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: * Added LDAP bind for auth |
| 18:09.24 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: * Fixed some bugs in the auth/reg code |
| 18:09.24 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: * Added test code for auth |
| 18:10.15 | Wyk3d | reg and most of auth works now :) |
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| 18:24.29 | Wyk3d | what are the minimum lengths for the callsign/password ? |
| 18:24.42 | Wyk3d | min/max |
| 18:24.44 | brad | 2 I think |
| 18:24.47 | brad | dunno max |
| 18:25.36 | brad | well, I can join a server with a 2 character name, but that doesn't mean I can register it at the forum. |
| 18:26.13 | brad | max seems to be 31 in-game |
| 18:26.21 | brad | unless I counted wrong |
| 18:26.32 | Wyk3d | ok, thanks :) |
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| 18:36.10 | bugQ | bz_getBZDBVarList confuses me |
| 18:36.54 | bugQ | oh, wait. |
| 18:37.22 | bugQ | I pass it a pre-allocated bz_APIStringList, it returns the size. not too bad. |
| 19:01.05 | Wyk3d | is it a problem if the user is not told if the callsign or password is incorrect just that one of them is? |
| 19:01.37 | JeffM | that's better |
| 19:01.56 | JeffM | then just send them to the "forgot" link |
| 19:02.05 | Wyk3d | good :) |
| 19:02.08 | JeffM | I prefer the "the data does not match our database" responce |
| 19:02.27 | Wyk3d | that's more efficient for the server too ;) |
| 19:02.42 | Wyk3d | i only need one bind call instead of search + bind |
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| 19:24.26 | newnick | . |
| 19:24.47 | newnick | this is quantumzin |
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| 19:26.04 | QZ | k |
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| 20:00.07 | QZ | could someone give me the IRC channel for gu.league? |
| 20:00.34 | brad | ##guleague |
| 20:00.52 | QZ | thank you |
| 20:01.22 | QZ | ##guleague |
| 20:01.30 | brad | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:01.31 | JeffM | type /join first |
| 20:01.32 | QZ | right? |
| 20:01.38 | QZ | nk thanks |
| 20:02.40 | QZ | QT you there? |
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| 20:47.04 | QZ | k |
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| 21:38.07 | bugQ | the whole bz_APIStringList business baffles me... |
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| 21:50.54 | JeffM | bugQ, it's because we can't expose SDL to the API |
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| 22:03.04 | QuantumZ | s |
| 22:10.34 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: 03bugQ * r18094 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/webadmin/webadmin.cpp: backend logic for server var editing interface |
| 22:12.01 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: 03bugQ * r18095 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/webadmin/webadmin.cpp: incorrect var name was being generated |
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| 22:51.11 | QuantumZ | for what purposes is the MOTD command used for? |
| 22:56.07 | JeffM | what command? |
| 22:58.04 | QuantumZ | (sigh )nevermind i was thinking about something else |
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| 23:31.59 | blast007 | QuantumZ: you there? |
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| 23:43.51 | QuantumZ | yes now i am |
| 23:44.33 | QuantumZ | are you there?=} |
| 23:45.42 | blast007 | yup |
| 23:46.52 | blast007 | you have some private messages |
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