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| 00:35.12 | bz87 | how do you play a bzw file |
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| 00:58.50 | tofu | returns with mass quantities of sushi |
| 00:59.05 | JeffM | consume! |
| 00:59.16 | Winny | brlcad: drupal |
| 00:59.23 | brlcad | danka |
| 00:59.38 | JeffM | boomdeyada! |
| 01:00.11 | brlcad | that is a great commercial |
| 01:02.42 | JeffM | it still makes me laugh |
| 01:02.43 | brlcad | Winny: you don't yet have an account do you? |
| 01:03.10 | JeffM | I am pretty sure that they could hav just faked Steven Hawking, but went and had him do it anyway, just on principle :) |
| 01:03.48 | brlcad | mebbie .. they really could have faked a huge portion of it these days |
| 01:04.12 | JeffM | I just like to think that Hawking has one hell of a sense of humor :) |
| 01:04.26 | brlcad | i was just wondering what he's done on discovery |
| 01:04.30 | brlcad | (recently) |
| 01:04.44 | JeffM | he's just the patron saint of science |
| 01:04.48 | Winny | brlcad: an account where? |
| 01:04.51 | brlcad | the earth series is someone else |
| 01:04.54 | brlcad | Winny: on .bz |
| 01:05.00 | Winny | nope |
| 01:05.47 | brlcad | k |
| 01:06.05 | JeffM | brlcad, the planet earth series was discovery |
| 01:06.16 | Winny | JeffM: I thought it was BBC |
| 01:06.35 | JeffM | it may have been produced by them and discovery, but the DVDs have the discovery logo |
| 01:06.42 | JeffM | discovery and BBC work together a LOT |
| 01:06.43 | brlcad | JeffM: yeah, but I mean the narrator was someone else |
| 01:06.47 | JeffM | ahh |
| 01:06.50 | Winny | JeffM: ah |
| 01:06.52 | brlcad | i'm just thinking what he might have actually spoken on |
| 01:07.14 | JeffM | IMDB him :) |
| 01:09.58 | JeffM | buy's a Tivo |
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| 01:12.57 | brlcad | woot |
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| 01:13.30 | JeffM | no not on woot ;) |
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| 01:15.26 | blast007 | heh |
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| 01:25.52 | JeffM | I wish woot had a bunch of series 2 TiVos to dump |
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| 01:49.54 | AAA_awright | ping? |
| 01:50.09 | AAA_awright | I see, nvm |
| 01:52.47 | AAA_awright | Anyone know how to scan for bzfs in $PATH? |
| 01:52.51 | AAA_awright | from C? |
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| 01:56.03 | purple_cow | why would you want to do that? |
| 01:57.23 | AAA_awright | To search for a default bzfs binary to run in MasterBot |
| 01:58.41 | AAA_awright | Actually, I need to find out how do you direct the output of a known program into a variable. It sounds like fork(), cout.rdbuf(), exec(), but that doesn't seem to work |
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| 02:09.17 | blast007 | AAA_awright: read the value, split the directories in there, and run a check to see if 'bzfs' exists in each one |
| 02:09.24 | blast007 | not that complicated |
| 02:09.42 | blast007 | in PHP, you could use file_exists() |
| 02:10.05 | AAA_awright | This is C. Also, I am checking the output of bzfs -v for the version number. |
| 02:10.59 | AAA_awright | Later I will need to be streaming the output of a running server into a stringstream, or at least a log file. |
| 02:11.44 | *** join/#bzflag lol_u (n=4c5d8bae@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 02:11.49 | lol_u | hey guys |
| 02:11.53 | lol_u | one queston |
| 02:12.12 | AAA_awright | lol_u: Hey, yeah? |
| 02:12.14 | lol_u | Im trying to add someone to the admin group and i used /setgroup |
| 02:12.23 | lol_u | what else do i type? |
| 02:12.25 | AAA_awright | blast007: C++ I mean, C function API, so no difference |
| 02:12.43 | JeffM | lol_u, is it a global group you had setup on bzbb? |
| 02:12.55 | JeffM | AAA_awright, it'll be a unix specfic thing if there is one |
| 02:13.05 | JeffM | google on getting environ variables. |
| 02:13.06 | lol_u | so its |
| 02:13.11 | lol_u | cobrafast.admin |
| 02:13.16 | lol_u | now wat |
| 02:13.26 | JeffM | lol_u, but is that setup on the fourms? |
| 02:13.32 | JeffM | did you request it? |
| 02:13.38 | lol_u | cobra fast did |
| 02:13.44 | JeffM | then you don't add people in game |
| 02:13.44 | blast007 | AAA_awright: maybe the stat() function? |
| 02:13.46 | JeffM | you add them on bzbb |
| 02:13.59 | JeffM | with the usergroups item at the top of every page. |
| 02:14.09 | lol_u | where do i go exactly |
| 02:14.31 | JeffM | lol_u, if cobra fast is the group moderator, you can't add people |
| 02:14.34 | AAA_awright | blast007: For? I need to check the output of a command |
| 02:14.41 | lol_u | Oh ok |
| 02:14.43 | AAA_awright | At the beginning during startup |
| 02:14.44 | blast007 | AAA_awright: to see if a file exists |
| 02:14.51 | lol_u | then whats the /setgroup for |
| 02:14.59 | JeffM | lol_u, local users and groups |
| 02:15.02 | JeffM | not global ones |
| 02:15.03 | AAA_awright | lol_u: Local groups from a file |
| 02:15.05 | blast007 | you asked for a way to scan for bzfs in the path. that's a way. |
| 02:15.11 | JeffM | it's what we had before we had global users |
| 02:15.31 | lol_u | oh ok....so if I need to tell cobra to add right? |
| 02:15.32 | AAA_awright | JeffM: Hm, I could see people getting confused about local vs. global groups more. Should we put more thought into the UI? |
| 02:15.44 | JeffM | AAA_awright, local users have been removed from 3.0 |
| 02:15.50 | JeffM | so there will be no more confusion |
| 02:15.56 | AAA_awright | Uh |
| 02:16.24 | JeffM | if we want to do local users it should use a system like the global system and not do /identify in plain text |
| 02:16.25 | lol_u | is there a way that i have the group moderator for cobras map? |
| 02:16.48 | lol_u | i can have* |
| 02:16.54 | JeffM | lol_u, groups arn't tied to maps. We set the group moderator to the user that requests it |
| 02:17.05 | JeffM | if that moderator wants to give over moderation to another user they can do it |
| 02:17.15 | JeffM | but we can not give you access to his groups |
| 02:17.33 | JeffM | when the group manager is finished it will allow for more then one moderator |
| 02:17.38 | JeffM | but right now there is only one |
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| 02:17.55 | AAA_awright | JeffM: Ah, I remember you saying that, I just realized though, bzfs isn't only an Internet thing, I have used it offline with people too. I need local groups, is there an easy way to enable those when you need them? |
| 02:17.56 | lol_u | oh ok |
| 02:18.08 | JeffM | AAA_awright, nope |
| 02:18.18 | JeffM | that would be a new feature someone would have to write up |
| 02:18.23 | lol_u | thanks alot JeffM you were a big help ;) |
| 02:18.28 | JeffM | the old local users was a huge security hole |
| 02:18.44 | JeffM | I know there are lan users |
| 02:18.46 | AAA_awright | Not as much as the global db in my opinion... |
| 02:18.59 | JeffM | dude plaintext passwords STORE in the server logs |
| 02:19.03 | lol_u | Oh i found a bug on my 2 macs |
| 02:19.09 | JeffM | that's prety bad |
| 02:19.19 | lol_u | why does it take 3 mins to open bzflag? |
| 02:19.21 | JeffM | right now it's plaintext to at least a web server |
| 02:19.24 | blast007 | AAA_awright: you can always run your own list server if you want auth on a LAN ;) |
| 02:19.25 | AAA_awright | I realize that much, but it isn't like there is sensitive data there |
| 02:19.35 | AAA_awright | Unlike the global db |
| 02:19.39 | blast007 | yes it is |
| 02:19.41 | JeffM | AAA_awright, it was used by server owners to harvest passwords |
| 02:19.41 | AAA_awright | blast007: True |
| 02:19.50 | lol_u | ??????? |
| 02:19.56 | JeffM | so yes the current system is not perfect, but it's harder to exploiit |
| 02:20.02 | JeffM | lol_u, it dosnt' take that long for most people |
| 02:20.03 | blast007 | what's to say that people don't use the same one locally that they use online? :P |
| 02:20.20 | AAA_awright | blast007: That is an interesting idea. Someone could make a simple, non threaded, http server that serves authentication data for LANs. |
| 02:20.34 | blast007 | AAA_awright: or just install XAMPP |
| 02:20.47 | blast007 | you need PHP and MySQL at this point |
| 02:20.47 | AAA_awright | Way too complex for something small |
| 02:20.48 | JeffM | AAA_awright, I understand that we could use a LAN auth system, and I"ll fully support someone who wants to write one that uses the in game password/token system. I just won't write it. |
| 02:20.54 | AAA_awright | I meant a tiny httpd |
| 02:21.00 | blast007 | they have those |
| 02:21.14 | blast007 | if you want a self contained one, just mod one that already exists |
| 02:21.14 | JeffM | also lan play is honestly a lower priority |
| 02:21.24 | blast007 | or, do it as a plugin for 3.0.0 :) |
| 02:21.31 | blast007 | 3.0.0 can do HTTP plugins |
| 02:21.57 | AAA_awright | blast007: Implement a httpd on port 80 from a plugin? O.o |
| 02:22.00 | JeffM | if we sent the password to the game server we should ask the user first if that's cool |
| 02:22.01 | AAA_awright | Interesting! |
| 02:22.02 | blast007 | no |
| 02:22.06 | blast007 | on port 5154 |
| 02:22.09 | JeffM | AAA_awright, nope on the in game port |
| 02:22.19 | JeffM | tho you could do it on 80 too if you wanted |
| 02:22.20 | blast007 | it's for a LAN. you don't need it on port 80 |
| 02:23.04 | JeffM | I'd like to see where the server says "hey I'm lan, use this list URL" and the client say "hey the server wants to use this list URL, is that cool?" |
| 02:23.11 | JeffM | and you accept it like a certificate |
| 02:23.21 | JeffM | an could enter a differnet password or something |
| 02:23.28 | JeffM | just so at least you KNOW what is up |
| 02:23.39 | AAA_awright | Hm. All of a sudden I like the idea of a C list server. Of course, it would not be scalable.But that doesn't matter. |
| 02:23.40 | JeffM | then everything works like global but to some plugin or deamon or whatever |
| 02:24.01 | JeffM | the existing local users implemenation was just horribly flawed |
| 02:24.03 | delusional_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:24.03 | ibot | i heard ask is Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. |
| 02:24.09 | AAA_awright | JeffM: I got another idea when on a server, if you need to reconnect to the same server, could the /quit command get a token from the server to reconnect with? An idea. |
| 02:24.19 | JeffM | if you HAD to you could go and reimplment it with a plugin and cusomt / commands |
| 02:24.41 | AAA_awright | Of course it wouldn't be of any use on a seperate server, but it would make for fast reconnections. |
| 02:24.42 | JeffM | AAA_awright, why? the list can just reauth you. |
| 02:24.50 | JeffM | wherever that list is |
| 02:24.56 | JeffM | why make it more complex |
| 02:24.59 | AAA_awright | It would speed up a reconnection by a few seconds. |
| 02:25.17 | JeffM | doubtfull |
| 02:25.22 | JeffM | and for a rare case |
| 02:25.28 | JeffM | users arn't suposed to reconnect |
| 02:25.37 | JeffM | they have to wait to respawn anyway |
| 02:25.43 | AAA_awright | Switching teams. I was on a 1vs1 server, you have to do that often. |
| 02:25.50 | JeffM | the game can swap your teams now |
| 02:25.53 | JeffM | LIVE ;) |
| 02:26.04 | AAA_awright | Nice feature, but when the user wants to? |
| 02:26.06 | JeffM | I want it all to be dynamicly swapable |
| 02:26.20 | JeffM | AAA_awright, it would not be hard to add an interface to request a team change |
| 02:26.23 | AAA_awright | Would the user be able to switch teams without disconnecting? |
| 02:26.24 | JeffM | the proto supports it tho |
| 02:26.27 | JeffM | that's the plan |
| 02:26.33 | AAA_awright | MsgReconnect |
| 02:26.36 | JeffM | swap teams, or go to observer |
| 02:26.40 | JeffM | with out disconencting |
| 02:26.47 | AAA_awright | Or send MsgEnter again? |
| 02:26.49 | JeffM | there is a MsgTeam |
| 02:26.55 | JeffM | swaps the player's team |
| 02:26.57 | AAA_awright | That is to the client, not from? |
| 02:27.11 | JeffM | you would do it wiht a / command or something |
| 02:27.19 | JeffM | it would not be hard to do |
| 02:27.25 | AAA_awright | Too complex, UI perspective. |
| 02:27.37 | JeffM | then write a UI that does it and sends the / command ;) |
| 02:28.03 | JeffM | blast actualy wants to move the team choice till after connect anyway |
| 02:28.08 | JeffM | that way you see what is available |
| 02:28.11 | AAA_awright | If(oldserverport==newserverport && oldcallsign==newcallsign){MsgTeam}else{legacy behavior} |
| 02:28.46 | JeffM | I'd rather it have a dedicated UI, not shoved into an exsting UI |
| 02:28.50 | AAA_awright | Something like that? The server would have to accept it from the client too |
| 02:28.56 | JeffM | we should make things better, not hack crap together |
| 02:29.06 | AAA_awright | That would make it better |
| 02:29.17 | JeffM | why force them to use the rejoin? |
| 02:29.27 | JeffM | why not add a "CHANGE TEAM" item to the menu when you are connected? |
| 02:29.28 | AAA_awright | The server would do all the same stuff as a reconnect, but without needing to reauth or establish a connection, or negotiate other things. |
| 02:29.30 | JeffM | that'd be better |
| 02:29.48 | JeffM | doing a reconnect to change teams dosn't make sense to a new player |
| 02:29.57 | JeffM | old players only know it cus that's what you have to do now |
| 02:30.04 | JeffM | a change team menu item would work for everyone |
| 02:30.10 | JeffM | and be... intutive. |
| 02:30.32 | AAA_awright | How about change the Connect menu item depending on the status? |
| 02:30.56 | JeffM | no cus you may want to conenct to another server |
| 02:30.57 | AAA_awright | It would alternate between Connect and Change Team depending on the current status of the server, port, team, and callsign field. |
| 02:31.07 | JeffM | I'd just add a new one |
| 02:31.11 | JeffM | there is plenty of room |
| 02:31.34 | AAA_awright | It doesn't matter, if you need to disconnect and reconnect, there is the "Leave Server" option on the main menu |
| 02:31.45 | AAA_awright | If all of those are the same, display "Change Team", else "Connect" |
| 02:31.47 | JeffM | why force people to disconenct first |
| 02:31.55 | JeffM | what is wrong with just adding another menu? |
| 02:32.09 | AAA_awright | That is very bad from a UI perspective, "just another menu" |
| 02:32.27 | JeffM | not if they all make sense and have VALID uses for some people |
| 02:32.36 | JeffM | it's bad design to assume that everyone does things one way |
| 02:33.50 | AAA_awright | 90-95% of the time, when someone only changes the team field and hits connect, they only want to change teams, and don't want to re-negotiate the flags, map, authentication, UDP, etc. |
| 02:34.07 | JeffM | I can't understand why you keep trying to find fault in an idea that solves your needs, and allows others to do things that you don't do. |
| 02:34.16 | AAA_awright | So change the Connect button to Change Team in that case. If they must disconnect, there is that option on the main menu, |
| 02:34.19 | JeffM | AAA_awright, so they hit the change team item |
| 02:34.37 | AAA_awright | That leaves a menu item not used 90% of the time |
| 02:34.45 | JeffM | FOR YOU |
| 02:34.48 | AAA_awright | And that functionality is there anyways with "Leave Server" |
| 02:35.05 | JeffM | there are a nubmer of things that people MAY want to do |
| 02:35.11 | JeffM | 1) leave and look at the server list |
| 02:35.22 | JeffM | 2) instantly swap to another favorite server |
| 02:35.25 | JeffM | 3) change teams |
| 02:35.29 | AAA_awright | Name a reason people will only change the team field and hit Connect. |
| 02:35.29 | JeffM | you disallow #2 |
| 02:35.38 | AAA_awright | And want to re-negotiate everything. |
| 02:35.47 | JeffM | AAA_awright, they change servers too |
| 02:35.56 | JeffM | from there list of favorites |
| 02:36.04 | JeffM | but they DON'T want to have to discoonect |
| 02:36.07 | JeffM | since that is an extra step |
| 02:36.35 | AAA_awright | I am saying, If the server field is the same, the callsign field is the same, port is the same, and team is changed, change the "Connect" field to "Change Team". Simple, easy, doesn't introduce a new menu item, and doesn't loose any functionality. |
| 02:36.41 | JeffM | I'd like the server name to have a history of servers, someone may want to bump back to the last server. |
| 02:36.46 | AAA_awright | *lose |
| 02:36.50 | JeffM | AAA_awright, too complex |
| 02:36.59 | AAA_awright | From what perspective? |
| 02:37.10 | JeffM | from a menu item poping in and out whle you change things |
| 02:37.35 | JeffM | but you arn't going to write it anyway, so it's bikeshed |
| 02:37.42 | JeffM | we'll see what happens when someone does write that feature. |
| 02:38.11 | AAA_awright | JeffM: If someone writes a Client-to-server MsgTeam for bzfs, I will write the UI for the client |
| 02:38.18 | AAA_awright | Promise. |
| 02:38.24 | JeffM | the UI is the easy part |
| 02:38.32 | JeffM | whoever does the message work will do the UI |
| 02:38.39 | JeffM | since they WILL have to test it |
| 02:39.19 | JeffM | I just don't like the concept of menu item names changing as you change other fields |
| 02:39.26 | JeffM | I feel that is bad design |
| 02:39.39 | JeffM | and I don't think that we can change them in realtime even. |
| 02:39.52 | JeffM | I'd rather have an extra menu when you are connected. that's it |
| 02:40.04 | JeffM | then it appears and dissapears when you go to or from that menu |
| 02:40.21 | blast007 | wouldn't be hard to do that at all |
| 02:40.28 | JeffM | do add the menu, no |
| 02:40.34 | JeffM | and it would be a good static UI |
| 02:40.37 | blast007 | we already have the menu entry for leaving a game on the main menu when you are joined |
| 02:40.43 | JeffM | yeah |
| 02:40.46 | blast007 | so the code is there to detect when you're in a game |
| 02:40.51 | JeffM | so it'd be consistent with the current way |
| 02:40.59 | AAA_awright | I don't believe so |
| 02:41.01 | JeffM | we'd just add 2 items insted of one |
| 02:41.09 | *** join/#bzflag Archangel_13 (n=Kevin@71-17-202-188.estv.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 02:41.11 | JeffM | AAA_awright, ok your opinion is noted. |
| 02:41.30 | AAA_awright | "Change Team" would be functionally the same as "Connect", the text is changing for clarity |
| 02:41.47 | JeffM | AAA_awright, I know exactly what you are saying you want |
| 02:41.53 | JeffM | so describing it again dosn't change anything |
| 02:41.57 | AAA_awright | And put it this way: What situation would a user need to re-negotiate UDP, authentication, map data, etc, AND only change the team, not password or callsign, and hit Connect? |
| 02:42.02 | AAA_awright | k |
| 02:42.06 | blast007 | it would not be the same as rejoining |
| 02:42.08 | JeffM | AAA_awright, to reauth ;) |
| 02:42.14 | blast007 | it would be the same connection... |
| 02:42.20 | JeffM | list server was down |
| 02:42.25 | JeffM | server crashed |
| 02:42.30 | JeffM | server changed maps |
| 02:42.34 | JeffM | I coudl go on |
| 02:42.46 | AAA_awright | If the server crashed, you wouldn't be connected, and so Change Team couldn't show anyways |
| 02:42.58 | JeffM | it may take time for the client to fully discoonect |
| 02:43.04 | JeffM | so the client woudl think it's conencted |
| 02:43.22 | AAA_awright | And that is what Leave Server is for. I see the point though. |
| 02:43.25 | JeffM | it can happen and there are cases, so I would NOT remove that ability |
| 02:43.30 | JeffM | just to save one menu item |
| 02:43.34 | JeffM | it's not worth it. |
| 02:43.56 | AAA_awright | So you have redundant menu items, Leave Server and [Re]Connect? |
| 02:44.01 | JeffM | yeah so? |
| 02:44.07 | JeffM | tho they don't do the same things |
| 02:44.11 | JeffM | leave server leaves |
| 02:44.15 | JeffM | but does NOT reconnect you |
| 02:44.35 | JeffM | I would not mind making connect say reconnect |
| 02:44.45 | JeffM | tho you'd have to ch ange that if you changed server |
| 02:44.48 | JeffM | so maybe not |
| 02:45.15 | AAA_awright | In your case, you still need to navigate menus to change teams. In my case, you need to navigate server menus to disconnect. It's a matter of which happens more often. |
| 02:45.42 | JeffM | in both our cases the team change is the same number of ations |
| 02:45.47 | JeffM | actions |
| 02:45.55 | AAA_awright | er, not server menus. Plain menus. |
| 02:45.57 | JeffM | just a different item on the same menu |
| 02:46.16 | JeffM | so your system has no advantage over mine in a team change case |
| 02:46.27 | JeffM | your system requires one extra action in a reconnect case |
| 02:47.16 | JeffM | hell, I could even do it with out a menu, just change the team field and hit escape ;) |
| 02:47.32 | JeffM | that'd be even more easy ;) |
| 02:47.38 | Archangel_13 | 20:45 < JeffM> I would not mind making connect say reconnect |
| 02:47.40 | JeffM | no items to hit at all |
| 02:47.58 | JeffM | Archangel_13, read the rest of what I said after that |
| 02:49.05 | JeffM | I do still like blasts pick after join |
| 02:49.19 | JeffM | then just have a "prefered team" somewhere in a player setup menu |
| 02:49.19 | AAA_awright | JeffM: It is a UI issue above all else. Too many menus are bad. Evil. |
| 02:49.22 | Archangel_13 | JeffM: Oops, acciental cut and paste. |
| 02:49.31 | JeffM | AAA_awright, yeah.. evil sure |
| 02:49.46 | blast007 | our game modes don't always have teams, or not all the teams, so it does make sense |
| 02:49.47 | JeffM | AAA_awright, how about we just make a single item that says "win"? |
| 02:49.51 | AAA_awright | I don't like the fact "Save Settings" is on the main menu, it should be under settings, because how many times do you need to save settings? |
| 02:49.57 | blast007 | like rabbit chase. having the team selection there is confusing |
| 02:50.00 | JeffM | AAA_awright, it is |
| 02:50.03 | JeffM | in 3.0 |
| 02:50.20 | AAA_awright | Hm, I just pulled it up yesterday, didn't notice |
| 02:50.27 | AAA_awright | looks |
| 02:50.41 | blast007 | and it would prevent people from trying to join Red if the team is full, since everyone would join as an observer or somesuch, and it could show the limits right there for each team |
| 02:51.12 | AAA_awright | blast007: Interesting idea. |
| 02:51.14 | blast007 | I like how Team Fortress 2 does it |
| 02:51.31 | AAA_awright | You would know this based on the list server, what if you are entering a server in the fields? |
| 02:51.32 | blast007 | which is the most recent game I've played that had team selection after joins |
| 02:51.41 | AAA_awright | Show everything? Pre-connect and get the data? |
| 02:51.55 | blast007 | AAA_awright: uh, I am talking about after you are connected to the server |
| 02:51.59 | blast007 | for team selection |
| 02:52.11 | JeffM | AAA_awright, so I Guess that it wasn't so much of an evil menu at all? if you didn't notice that it had gone;) |
| 02:52.21 | blast007 | you are *connected*, so you have *live* details of team count |
| 02:52.37 | AAA_awright | If you like showing team selection after connecting to the server, I would prefer it connects when you enter the server name, quickly in the background, and get that data |
| 02:52.48 | JeffM | then a teamswap could just limbo you and take you to that menu again |
| 02:53.06 | blast007 | AAA_awright: server name and port... it's not just one thing |
| 02:53.23 | JeffM | there is no way to know they are done entering in data |
| 02:53.28 | JeffM | since it can be all done manualy |
| 02:53.28 | blast007 | we could have adifferent system for the list |
| 02:53.46 | blast007 | like a screen that has a username and password, and then a list of servers below that |
| 02:53.56 | AAA_awright | blast007: I implied port (though guess I didn't), I know the difference though. |
| 02:53.58 | blast007 | so they enter their username and password, and pick a server, and it connects |
| 02:54.08 | JeffM | there are many ways that we could do the connecton menu |
| 02:54.18 | blast007 | or they can enter a custom server and hit "Connect to custom" or something of that nature |
| 02:54.31 | blast007 | yeah |
| 02:54.34 | JeffM | blast007, that's just combining our 2 menus now, I don't mind it |
| 02:54.44 | JeffM | I'd have to see how it looks |
| 02:54.47 | blast007 | and then pushing teams until after the join |
| 02:54.56 | JeffM | or we ask for a wow login on the start page |
| 02:55.04 | JeffM | then show the games after that |
| 02:55.07 | blast007 | we'd have to do some work in our UI elements, since I'm not sure if we could combine that as it stands now |
| 02:55.13 | JeffM | and have a "guest" option for nonreg |
| 02:55.38 | blast007 | hmm |
| 02:55.45 | JeffM | it would make a number of things simpler |
| 02:55.56 | JeffM | then we could do pofiles based on the user name at start |
| 02:55.59 | JeffM | profiles |
| 02:56.00 | blast007 | the client could request a username/password at the startup of the client, and then keep that in memory for when it's joining maps |
| 02:56.07 | JeffM | yeah |
| 02:56.13 | JeffM | it'd get a token on startup |
| 02:56.18 | blast007 | add a "Change Identity" |
| 02:56.25 | JeffM | logout, login ;) |
| 02:56.27 | blast007 | and then we could have it throw them into a lobby system ;) |
| 02:56.31 | JeffM | yeah |
| 02:56.40 | blast007 | lots of fun stuff we could do to improve our UI |
| 02:56.42 | JeffM | there is something to be said about the MMO way |
| 02:56.48 | JeffM | foods |
| 02:57.01 | AAA_awright | Are the menu items fonts now? |
| 02:57.14 | JeffM | they have always been |
| 02:57.15 | blast007 | "now" ? |
| 02:57.30 | AAA_awright | It was added 2.0.10 yes? |
| 02:57.33 | blast007 | no |
| 02:57.35 | JeffM | no |
| 02:57.39 | JeffM | it's always been text |
| 02:57.46 | JeffM | rendered in the font system |
| 02:57.58 | blast007 | even 1.7 had a font texture |
| 02:57.59 | AAA_awright | I mean as opposed to bitmaps |
| 02:58.05 | blast007 | that's still a font |
| 02:58.08 | JeffM | it's NEVER been bitmaps |
| 02:58.21 | JeffM | the fonts used to be scaled bitmaps |
| 02:58.22 | blast007 | JeffM: well, it was flat images rendered out |
| 02:58.24 | AAA_awright | The fonts? I thought I saw a .png somewhere of a bunch of hetters |
| 02:58.33 | blast007 | AAA_awright: and before that, it was .rgb files |
| 02:58.34 | JeffM | AAA_awright, that is a font |
| 02:58.39 | JeffM | our own font |
| 02:58.53 | JeffM | we never had an image that said "join" or anything |
| 02:58.55 | blast007 | I even had a font loader for those written in PHP/GD :P |
| 02:58.59 | JeffM | heh |
| 02:59.00 | AAA_awright | Well anyways, the console font looks a but blurry and hard to make out |
| 02:59.11 | JeffM | AAA_awright, in what version |
| 02:59.16 | JeffM | the font system was replaced in 3.0 |
| 02:59.21 | AAA_awright | In 2.1/2.99/3.0 whatever you are calling it now |
| 02:59.24 | JeffM | it now loads TTF fonts instead of our current system |
| 02:59.32 | JeffM | insted of our old fonts I mean |
| 02:59.36 | JeffM | AAA_awright, ATI? |
| 03:00.10 | blast007 | might depend on the resolution of the client too |
| 03:00.15 | JeffM | tho dosn't matter, font system is still under dev too |
| 03:00.25 | JeffM | it has known issues |
| 03:00.38 | JeffM | like min size detection and stuff |
| 03:00.52 | JeffM | AA on small fonts dosn't look good, it needs to swap to pixmaps |
| 03:00.56 | JeffM | realy foods |
| 03:02.58 | AAA_awright | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:03.24 | AAA_awright | blast007: Back to the origional origional topic at hand, Any way to read the output of a program? |
| 03:03.30 | AAA_awright | You know of? |
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| 03:13.14 | JeffM | mmmmm cowsheep |
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| 04:01.25 | Flash | AAA_awright: I'm still catching up, but did you get your question(s) answered? |
| 04:01.32 | AAA_awright | No |
| 04:02.25 | Flash | ok, which one do you want first? |
| 04:02.55 | AAA_awright | Streaming input to and reading output from bzfs |
| 04:03.09 | Flash | check popen |
| 04:03.10 | AAA_awright | Google fails me in this case *shock* |
| 04:03.25 | Flash | man popen |
| 04:03.45 | Flash | That's a C API (not C++) but it's quick and dirty |
| 04:03.45 | AAA_awright | :/ Not installed on debian |
| 04:03.59 | Flash | well, you can write your own, but it's ugly |
| 04:04.00 | AAA_awright | the opengroup.org spec works |
| 04:04.37 | Flash | you have to play with file descriptors between the fork() and the exec() |
| 04:04.56 | AAA_awright | hm |
| 04:05.04 | AAA_awright | Of course, open it as a file |
| 04:05.21 | Flash | first call pipe() to get a pipeline |
| 04:05.26 | Flash | then call fork() |
| 04:05.56 | Flash | on the child (pid == 0), close stdout (fd 1) then dup one end of the pipe |
| 04:06.01 | Flash | close the other end |
| 04:06.16 | Flash | on the parent (pid != 0) close the end you gave to the child |
| 04:06.33 | Flash | then the parent can read from the pipe and get stdout from the child |
| 04:08.59 | Flash | http://flash.pastebin.ca/1003607 |
| 04:14.33 | Flash | blast007: would you help me test the server crash bug that I found? |
| 04:16.48 | AAA_awright | Flash: cout.rdbuf() should work right? |
| 04:16.57 | Flash | no |
| 04:17.31 | Flash | cout is an ostream wrapped around stdout (fd 1) |
| 04:17.51 | Flash | rdbuf provides access to the streambuf, which is a bufferend abstraction over the file |
| 04:17.59 | Flash | you have to work with the files |
| 04:18.21 | Flash | however, there ARE nonstandard ways to attach files to the iostream interface |
| 04:24.31 | AAA_awright | Flash: Isn't there an error pipe too? |
| 04:24.45 | AAA_awright | bzfs uses the error pipe I know |
| 04:24.54 | AAA_awright | stream |
| 04:25.03 | AAA_awright | hm. |
| 04:25.06 | Flash | Every process has 3 file descriptors (0,1,2) -> (stdin, stdout, stderr) |
| 04:25.23 | Flash | you can set them to whatever you want after you fork() but before you exec |
| 04:25.38 | Flash | you can even use the same descriptor for stdout and stderr |
| 04:26.54 | Flash | http://flash.pastebin.ca/1003614 |
| 04:27.57 | Flash | however, I'm fairly certain this is all unix-specific. I don't know how windows interfaces with the C standard library |
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| 04:31.16 | AAA_awright | This has always been Unix-specific |
| 04:31.33 | AAA_awright | *nix specific |
| 04:31.41 | JeffM | remember... live every week.. like it was shark week! |
| 04:32.00 | AAA_awright | JeffM: Hm? |
| 04:32.08 | JeffM | do it! |
| 04:35.26 | Flash | JeffM: did you happen to catch my diatribe about the server bug? you were gone at the time, but I don't know if you read logs |
| 04:35.43 | JeffM | logs arn't posted till a day later |
| 04:35.56 | Flash | it's been a couple of days |
| 04:36.11 | JeffM | I do not make a habbit of readingg them |
| 04:36.36 | Flash | short version: server deletes NetHandler when a player leaves, but it appears that the NetHandler is part of other Player structures |
| 04:36.46 | Flash | using freed memory leads to unhappiness |
| 04:37.05 | JeffM | yeah didn't I say you should add a flush and a purge? |
| 04:37.14 | Flash | no |
| 04:37.20 | JeffM | yes |
| 04:37.31 | Flash | what will that do? |
| 04:37.32 | blast007 | catay added a flush command |
| 04:37.38 | JeffM | ahh good |
| 04:37.42 | JeffM | Flash, flush it |
| 04:37.47 | blast007 | last night or earlier today, he did |
| 04:37.49 | JeffM | then mark it as pending delettion |
| 04:37.56 | JeffM | when it's done flusing |
| 04:37.59 | JeffM | kill it |
| 04:38.11 | JeffM | and treat it as deleted if it's marked for deletion |
| 04:38.12 | Flash | but the same pointer is shared in other player structures |
| 04:38.20 | JeffM | yeah delete the player when it's all done |
| 04:38.27 | JeffM | mark the PLAYER as pending |
| 04:38.33 | Flash | shared in other ACTIVE player structures |
| 04:38.47 | JeffM | that's why you need a FLAG that says it's pending deletinon |
| 04:39.49 | Flash | ok, I'll accept that, but what I see right now is that the first player to leave triggers a 'delete' of the memory |
| 04:40.07 | JeffM | yeah, so? |
| 04:40.14 | JeffM | we know how to fix it, fit it ;) |
| 04:40.16 | Flash | I'm pretty sure that isn't healthy, but I don't understand the intended scope of the NetHandler object |
| 04:40.33 | JeffM | nethandlers go with players |
| 04:40.36 | JeffM | for the life of the player |
| 04:40.40 | JeffM | and vice versa |
| 04:40.52 | Flash | so it is an error for a nethandler to be shared among several players? |
| 04:41.09 | JeffM | techincaly no |
| 04:41.14 | JeffM | cus of stupid bots |
| 04:41.36 | Flash | well trunk is still broken wrt bots ;-) |
| 04:41.48 | JeffM | that dosn't man you should break them MORE |
| 04:42.04 | JeffM | ok, here's how I'd do it, have the net handler be able to buffer up messages |
| 04:42.11 | JeffM | then in the player delete, don't delete the net handler |
| 04:42.20 | JeffM | but tell the handler that it's orphaned |
| 04:42.38 | JeffM | then have it flush that stuff and delete itself when it's done if noone else has i t |
| 04:42.47 | JeffM | kind like our own variant of refrence counting |
| 04:43.05 | Flash | I wondered about going down that path a few weeks ago |
| 04:43.07 | JeffM | but not the same since it's based on messages pendking too |
| 04:43.20 | JeffM | you wanted to use smart pointers and they wont' do by themselves |
| 04:43.36 | Flash | no, I found a reference counting template that I wanted to suggest |
| 04:43.39 | JeffM | we can take a hint from smart pointers, and do a ref count type thing. |
| 04:43.44 | Flash | but I wasn't sure the license was compatible |
| 04:43.50 | JeffM | it's MORE then ref counting |
| 04:43.54 | JeffM | and ref coutning players is easy |
| 04:44.19 | Flash | the challenge is always deciding who owns what |
| 04:44.29 | JeffM | thats why you write your own |
| 04:44.33 | JeffM | it's NOT that hard |
| 04:44.37 | Flash | if the player(s) own the nethandler, then bzfs shouldn't delete it |
| 04:44.47 | Flash | (I meant resource management, not code ;-) |
| 04:44.49 | JeffM | noone owns nethandlers other the the nethandler statics |
| 04:45.02 | JeffM | you add a "gimme a net handelrr" method instead of new |
| 04:45.05 | JeffM | it's static |
| 04:45.08 | Flash | then noone should delete them |
| 04:45.15 | JeffM | no, then nethandler deletes them |
| 04:45.26 | Flash | that is doable |
| 04:45.26 | JeffM | you need to abstract them |
| 04:45.44 | Flash | I run into the problem of making abstraction fit into applyable patches |
| 04:45.47 | JeffM | if I was doing it I'd make a NetHandlerManager singleton that doles them out |
| 04:45.57 | JeffM | and everyone just asks for them |
| 04:46.05 | Flash | that works for me |
| 04:46.10 | blast007 | in the long run, is it better for us to keep tweaking our own system, or move to something like RakNet? |
| 04:46.15 | JeffM | then when noone has them anymore, and they have no more messages they get poofed |
| 04:46.23 | JeffM | blast007, relyable UDP? |
| 04:46.28 | JeffM | i'd just use raknet ;) |
| 04:47.02 | Flash | not free? |
| 04:47.04 | blast007 | hmm, not sure if the license for RakNet is LGPL compatible now though... |
| 04:47.22 | JeffM | having a singeton or static class that handles the networking stuff helps also makeit easier to thread the networking |
| 04:47.48 | blast007 | CC Attribution-Noncommercial 2.5 Generic, or a few others ones for commercial stuff |
| 04:48.15 | JeffM | if we link to it dynamicly I don't see us having a huge issue |
| 04:48.22 | blast007 | k |
| 04:48.26 | JeffM | tho debian may throw us in non free |
| 04:48.28 | JeffM | or something like that |
| 04:48.37 | JeffM | but I don't hink we NEED rakenet right now |
| 04:48.40 | JeffM | out have other issues first |
| 04:48.48 | blast007 | the other issue might be if we sell the CD on our store ;) |
| 04:48.59 | JeffM | maybe |
| 04:49.10 | JeffM | there are a number of networking libs that to stuff |
| 04:49.23 | JeffM | I'd fix our existing stuff first |
| 04:49.27 | blast007 | k |
| 04:49.30 | JeffM | so we at least know what our needs are |
| 04:49.53 | JeffM | so much other stuff has to go in around networking that just swaping to another lib dosn't buy us anything |
| 04:50.02 | JeffM | since we arn't threaded and stuff |
| 04:50.05 | Flash | so if I do this, will you promise not to scream at how big the patch is? |
| 04:50.24 | JeffM | Flash, why would anyone scream about patch size |
| 04:50.46 | Flash | I've been given grief about patch size in the past |
| 04:50.54 | Flash | mostly because it's hard to review large patches |
| 04:50.59 | Flash | which I fully understand |
| 04:51.12 | Flash | since I do that at work most of the day |
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| 04:52.02 | JeffM_ | whee |
| 04:52.08 | Flash | bipolar? |
| 04:52.15 | JeffM_ | what was the last thing I aid? |
| 04:52.18 | JeffM_ | said |
| 04:52.21 | Flash | JeffM meet JeffM_ |
| 04:52.29 | Flash | 22:50 < JeffM> Flash, why would anyone scream about patch size |
| 04:52.34 | JeffM_ | ahh |
| 04:52.50 | JeffM_ | the problem we have is when you put more then one feature or change into a patch |
| 04:52.54 | JeffM_ | not it's physical size |
| 04:53.01 | Flash | is learning restraint |
| 04:53.17 | JeffM_ | it's a management issue mostly |
| 04:53.27 | Flash | but the second half of the FontManager refactoring is still waiting application |
| 04:53.31 | JeffM_ | when we can't say "this patch does JUST this" it becomes harder to apply it |
| 04:54.22 | JeffM_ | so if your patch just refactored the nethandler to solve this problem, then yes it'll be large, but we can follow it and just look at how it does that one task |
| 04:54.36 | JeffM_ | instead of trying to figure out what each change is intending to do. |
| 04:55.24 | Flash | I love abstracting/refactoring work, so I'm happy to do it |
| 04:55.32 | JeffM_ | I know |
| 04:55.37 | JeffM_ | just make sure that is ALL you change |
| 04:55.43 | JeffM_ | you also love to go overboard |
| 04:56.10 | Flash | hasn't gone overboard in a long while |
| 05:09.38 | AAA_awright | Flash: I would have to have two pipes from the bzfs process to capture out and err independently? |
| 05:09.45 | Flash | yes |
| 05:09.50 | AAA_awright | I'll just open one for now, but alright |
| 05:10.03 | AAA_awright | I think I understand this all now |
| 05:10.34 | Flash | I was trying to find how you can attach the file descriptors to the filebuf, but as I said, it's non-standard, so it varies by vendor |
| 05:11.26 | AAA_awright | close(1) then dup(...) will attach the given stream to the output stream, even though it is completely different. |
| 05:11.42 | AAA_awright | Rather, what bzfs considers to be the output stream |
| 05:11.44 | Flash | given FILE DESCRIPTOR, not stream |
| 05:11.56 | AAA_awright | descriptor, it's a... |
| 05:12.07 | Flash | but, from the point of view of the child process (bzfs) it is attached to the output stream cout |
| 05:12.46 | AAA_awright | I'll get the vocab straight, I was referring to the output pipe/connection/stream/descriptor |
| 05:13.11 | AAA_awright | All very different but related things (sigh) |
| 05:13.15 | Flash | yes |
| 05:13.37 | AAA_awright | Alright, thanks for the pointer :) |
| 05:16.07 | Flash | JeffM: looks like someone else is already mucking with this |
| 05:16.14 | JeffM | ? |
| 05:18.10 | Flash | r 17101 removed the direct allocation/deletion of NetHandler objects from bzfs to NetListener |
| 05:18.15 | JeffM | see they are living every week like it's shark week, They get things done! |
| 05:18.22 | JeffM | who did it? |
| 05:18.27 | Flash | of course, it looks like the memory is leaked.... |
| 05:18.29 | Flash | catay |
| 05:18.41 | JeffM | cool |
| 05:18.48 | JeffM | then get with him and help him out |
| 05:19.19 | Flash | hmmm. the svn diff doesn't support what I see |
| 05:19.22 | Flash | is confused |
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| 05:49.47 | JeffM | I am the pretty prince of parties, you're a taisty peice of paistry. you're so light a flighty flakey, I go where the party takes me! |
| 06:05.17 | KingofCamelot | o.O |
| 06:11.54 | AAA_awright | Flash: dup2(fd, 1); works, where fd is a file descriptor for a file. On the filesystem. |
| 06:12.03 | Flash | yes |
| 06:12.22 | AAA_awright | Well, later everyone. |
| 06:29.23 | Flash | any idea why there is a separation between GameKeeper::Player::close() and GameKeeper::Player::clean() ?? |
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| 07:01.33 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 07:38.00 | CIA-32 | FTGL: 03sammy * r992 10/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): |
| 07:38.00 | CIA-32 | FTGL: * Generate the Doxygen configuration file at configure time so that we |
| 07:38.00 | CIA-32 | FTGL: don't need to hardcode the package version in it. |
| 07:38.00 | CIA-32 | FTGL: * Only generate documentation for the public classes. |
| 07:47.26 | CIA-32 | FTGL: 03sammy * r993 10/trunk/docs/doxygen.cfg.in: |
| 07:47.26 | CIA-32 | FTGL: * Predefine __cplusplus in the Doxygen config file so that the whole |
| 07:47.26 | CIA-32 | FTGL: headers are parsed. |
| 07:53.23 | *** join/#bzflag Dontkillmeimabeg (n=4d00f9bc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-890483ba212ec1e5) |
| 07:53.42 | Dontkillmeimabeg | No im not a beginner |
| 07:58.17 | *** join/#bzflag noyb (n=noyb@nat/sun/x-ee9bd64aae2462a2) |
| 08:17.36 | donny_baker | Dontkillmeimabeg: realy?!?!? wow, you had us all fooled... for the first 30 seconds |
| 08:33.26 | Dontkillmeimabeg | hi donny |
| 08:34.00 | Dontkillmeimabeg | hi donny |
| 08:34.13 | Dontkillmeimabeg | hi donny |
| 08:34.22 | Dontkillmeimabeg | hi donny |
| 08:34.36 | Dontkillmeimabeg | hi donny |
| 08:35.05 | brad | are you quite done? |
| 08:40.12 | *** join/#bzflag Gilly (n=btw@83.146.211.140) |
| 08:47.17 | ruskie | he's just being annoying it seems |
| 09:21.42 | *** join/#bzflag Upsetter (n=Ups@i577B6D3F.versanet.de) |
| 09:31.33 | CIA-32 | FTGL: 03sammy * r994 10/trunk/src/ (48 files in 4 dirs): |
| 09:31.33 | CIA-32 | FTGL: * Mass consistency renaming: the fonts' "FTGL" prefix is dropped in favour |
| 09:31.33 | CIA-32 | FTGL: of "FT" because all other types use only the latter. |
| 09:31.33 | CIA-32 | FTGL: * Rename "Extrd" types to "Extrude" because the former doesn't really make |
| 09:31.33 | CIA-32 | FTGL: much sense. |
| 09:31.34 | CIA-32 | FTGL: * Added appropriate #defines so that legacy applications still build. |
| 09:34.17 | Dontkillmeimabeg | hi |
| 09:34.33 | Dontkillmeimabeg | come to TO by Tanner |
| 09:45.17 | CIA-32 | FTGL: 03sammy * r995 10/trunk/ (22 files in 2 dirs): * Update demos and unit tests so that they use the newly named types. |
| 10:04.27 | CIA-32 | FTGL: 03sammy * r996 10/trunk/ (14 files in 4 dirs): |
| 10:04.27 | CIA-32 | FTGL: * Moved C constructor bindings to FTFont.h and FTLayout.h so that |
| 10:04.27 | CIA-32 | FTGL: they appear in the same file in the generated documentation. |
| 10:04.27 | CIA-32 | FTGL: * Various minor documentation updates. |
| 10:16.24 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-113-163-117.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 10:18.02 | *** join/#bzflag Electric1lf (n=dbharris@bas1-toronto48-1242462174.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 10:35.10 | *** join/#bzflag Ashvala (n=Ashvala@59.92.128.80) |
| 10:35.16 | Ashvala | Hello!! |
| 10:36.11 | *** join/#bzflag Wyk3d (i=Wyk3d@cl-86-125-183-159.cablelink.mures.rdsnet.ro) |
| 10:52.09 | *** join/#bzflag ViciousM (n=max@cpe-024-211-248-161.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 10:54.34 | CIA-32 | FTGL: 03sammy * r997 10/trunk/src/ (FTGL/FTPoint.h FTGlyph/FTExtrudeGlyph.cpp FTPoint.cpp): |
| 10:54.34 | CIA-32 | FTGL: * Inline most FTPoint methods and operators. This will probably make the |
| 10:54.34 | CIA-32 | FTGL: code smaller instead of bigger, because most of what they do will be |
| 10:54.34 | CIA-32 | FTGL: optimised out by the compiler. |
| 10:54.34 | CIA-32 | FTGL: * Get rid of the weird GetNormal() method and reimplement it using the ^ |
| 10:54.37 | CIA-32 | FTGL: operator (vector product) and Normalise() method instead. |
| 11:02.42 | *** join/#bzflag Saturos (n=Saturos@p57A0E07B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:33.00 | catay | Flash: i'm afraid my change wasn't that complicated as the stuff you guys talked about earlier :P |
| 11:33.47 | catay | Flash: all I did was making sure the last pending messages were send to a player before it gets removed |
| 11:34.31 | catay | Flash: and it solves the issue I had, but it's probably not the best way to do it |
| 11:35.38 | catay | I just wanted to add remaning bantime to a banmessage and i stumbled upon that bug :) |
| 11:57.24 | *** join/#bzflag O-Neil (n=Miranda@dslb-088-070-239-111.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
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| 12:05.51 | CIA-32 | FTGL: 03sammy * r998 10/trunk/docs/ (Makefile.am images/metrics.png images/metrics.svg): * Remade metrics.png using Inkscape. |
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| 13:15.41 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@dyndsl-091-096-002-190.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 13:18.18 | Flash | catay: yeah, I confused myself. I made the NetHandler ctor/dtor private to see who would complain and found the code in bzfs that used it. |
| 13:18.28 | Flash | then I svn up'd and I thought it went away |
| 13:18.32 | Flash | but I was wrong |
| 13:20.03 | Flash | by the way, there's a patch out there for the client that is similar; the exit message is lost when the client quits because it needs a flush |
| 13:21.37 | catay | Flash: i'll have a look at it |
| 13:22.47 | catay | Flash: i think there are still pretty fishy things with the messaging |
| 13:23.23 | catay | but my knowledge of the code is far too limited to see it at this moment :) |
| 13:31.04 | *** join/#bzflag hobbsc (n=hobbsc@ip70-178-55-100.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 13:42.53 | CIA-32 | FTGL: 03sammy * r999 10/trunk/ (6 files in 5 dirs): |
| 13:42.53 | CIA-32 | FTGL: * Store FTPoints in the BBox object instead of floats. This was a todo |
| 13:42.53 | CIA-32 | FTGL: from Henry. |
| 13:57.05 | *** join/#bzflag Dont (n=4d00f9bc@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 13:57.10 | Dont | hi |
| 13:57.16 | Dont | i need help |
| 14:04.52 | *** join/#bzflag AnakinPiewalker (n=41bc2790@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 14:08.03 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=short_ci@adsl-70-240-186-13.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 14:08.03 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |
| 14:19.44 | CIA-32 | FTGL: 03sammy * r1000 10/trunk/ (AUTHORS src/FTFont/FTTextureFont.cpp): |
| 14:19.44 | CIA-32 | FTGL: * Patches by Sean Morrison, from BzFlag commits r15755 and r14843: |
| 14:19.44 | CIA-32 | FTGL: + Only delete textures if there is at least one of them. |
| 14:19.44 | CIA-32 | FTGL: + Ensure that the FTTextureFont data members get set for all cases. |
| 14:19.44 | CIA-32 | FTGL: * Added Sean to the AUTHORS file. |
| 14:27.57 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@dyndsl-091-096-002-190.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 14:35.37 | brlcad | eep |
| 14:35.53 | brlcad | thansk |
| 14:36.41 | sam | brlcad: can I merge your bzflag changes into upstream ftgl? |
| 14:38.18 | sam | well I already started but I just noticed the old "ftgl" branch that has plenty of interesting stuff |
| 14:43.07 | sam | also, I didn't put your e-mail address in AUTHORS because I don't know your personal policy about publishing it, so please add it if you want it there |
| 14:49.04 | brlcad | sam: of course you can merge, thanks |
| 14:50.18 | brlcad | yeah, I did a few mods to ftgl both on the branch and to trunk .. iirc, it was some sanity checks and a few optimizations (one of them mildly hacked, but it worked very well wrt performance) |
| 14:50.38 | brlcad | I don't care about the e-mail addr, you're welcome to add it |
| 14:50.46 | brlcad | thanks for asking |
| 14:50.48 | sam | which one should that be? |
| 14:51.44 | brlcad | same as in the bz authors file should work learner |
| 14:51.46 | brlcad | @ brlcad.org |
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| 14:55.00 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
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| 16:04.28 | CIA-32 | BZFlag: 03catay * r17102 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/ (ListServerConnection.cxx bzfsChatVerify.cxx): |
| 16:04.28 | CIA-32 | BZFlag: Accepted patch 1954900 from Bullet Catcher |
| 16:04.28 | CIA-32 | BZFlag: * Add missing newlines to some log messages. |
| 16:05.27 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright___ (n=AAA_awri@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 16:08.20 | catay | do we also still commit cleanup patches to branch if someon provides them ? |
| 16:08.20 | catay | *someone |
| 16:09.08 | catay | Flash: your flush() thingie is probably the right thing to do , but it causes other issues :) |
| 16:10.57 | BulletCatcher | Is that the flush() in SF patch 1948438? That one seems okay to me. |
| 16:11.57 | catay | BulletCatcher: did you ran bzfs in gdb after applying it? |
| 16:12.30 | BulletCatcher | Not in gdb, but I did run both client and server. |
| 16:12.58 | BulletCatcher | What problem do you see? |
| 16:13.29 | catay | after the player is removed in removePlayer(), at the end the server broadcasts a teamupdate msg |
| 16:13.49 | catay | and it also still does to the just removed player |
| 16:13.57 | catay | *t+hat |
| 16:14.13 | catay | and it results in a broken pipe when i run it in gdb |
| 16:14.41 | BulletCatcher | Does it do that when you don't use gdb? |
| 16:15.00 | catay | no, it runs fine then |
| 16:15.07 | BulletCatcher | huh |
| 16:15.15 | catay | so i'm not sure if a problem or not |
| 16:15.25 | BulletCatcher | let me try it with gdb... |
| 16:15.34 | catay | i had something similar before and it crashed my bzfs |
| 16:16.03 | catay | BulletCatcher: run it in gdb and rejoin a few times with your client |
| 16:16.09 | BulletCatcher | ok |
| 16:16.25 | catay | don't exit the client, join the game agian |
| 16:16.46 | catay | BulletCatcher: did you see my pm ? :) |
| 16:17.21 | BulletCatcher | I see your pm now. |
| 16:24.03 | BulletCatcher | No problems with 5 join/leave cycles. |
| 16:25.50 | BulletCatcher | and I do have the flush() in my code |
| 16:26.32 | sam | brlcad: in bzflag's FTFace.cpp, method FTFace::KernAdvance, I think index1 and index2 can overflow precomputedKerning |
| 16:26.59 | sam | brlcad: I'll fix that in FTGL upstream but you may want to do it in bzflag, too |
| 16:27.08 | catay | BulletCatcher: once sec, i'll apply it again and pastebin it |
| 16:29.44 | catay | BulletCatcher: http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/1004044 , line 04 |
| 16:30.01 | catay | BulletCatcher: I join / escape / join , i don't use 'leave' |
| 16:30.18 | catay | dinnertime, bbl |
| 16:30.48 | BulletCatcher | okay, I'll just rejoin too |
| 16:35.48 | *** join/#bzflag Saturos_ (n=Saturos@p57A0D5F2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:35.58 | BulletCatcher | My bzfs in gb is happy even after a dozen escape->join cycles. |
| 16:36.14 | BulletCatcher | *gdb |
| 16:43.07 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
| 16:50.11 | *** join/#bzflag LongDo1 (n=LongDon@host-091-097-045-092.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 17:15.43 | *** join/#bzflag Erroneous (n=dtremena@about/essy/CrazyCoder/DTRemenak) |
| 17:15.44 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Erroneous] by ChanServ |
| 17:19.10 | BulletCatcher | catay: It just occurred to me that I am currently running r17099, and you probably have r17101 applied. I blame your new flushMessages method for the SIGPIPE. :p |
| 17:19.34 | JeffM | so fix it |
| 17:23.30 | BulletCatcher | JeffM: You missed the earlier discussion, where I couldn't reproduce catay's problem. I think it is his to fix. |
| 17:24.29 | JeffM | BulletCatcher, then get his code and help him fix it :) |
| 17:24.44 | BulletCatcher | :-) |
| 17:32.47 | brlcad | sam: oh, they certainly can .. iirc that hack was only based on the assumptions we could go with for bz |
| 17:52.29 | catay | BulletCatcher: ya, the problem is a bit more complicated i am afraid |
| 17:53.22 | catay | BulletCatcher: the main problem is , a player gets removed, but there are still messages in the outgoing buffer after the removal |
| 17:53.37 | catay | then , update() gets called and tries to send these to the removed player |
| 17:54.30 | catay | i'm still trying to grasp the whole flow :) |
| 17:54.54 | *** join/#bzflag kirun (n=kirun@10.126.gr5.adsl.brightview.com) |
| 18:08.26 | *** part/#bzflag LongDo1 (n=LongDon@host-091-097-045-092.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 18:13.38 | *** join/#bzflag me1 (n=me1@unaffiliated/me1) |
| 18:22.10 | catay | BulletCatcher: i even get the SIGPIPE when i revert my change :) |
| 18:23.27 | catay | BulletCatcher: do you build with -enable-debug ? |
| 18:25.43 | *** join/#bzflag kierra (n=jolie@c-68-35-232-5.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 18:26.09 | kierra | donde esta mi brlcad???? |
| 18:26.23 | catay | kierra ! |
| 18:26.34 | kierra | hi catay |
| 18:27.07 | kierra | chestal....1vs1 groups are out |
| 18:27.11 | kierra | http://1vs1.bzleague.com/contest08-groups.php |
| 18:27.28 | catay | would be good to change the motd :) |
| 18:27.39 | catay | to announce the groups are online |
| 18:27.47 | kierra | yes, learner did it for me earlier |
| 18:27.58 | kierra | anyone else can do it? |
| 18:29.54 | *** join/#bzflag Wits (n=Warinthe@212.119.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 18:31.03 | CIA-32 | FTGL: 03sammy * r1001 10/trunk/src/FTFont/FTTextureFont.cpp: |
| 18:31.03 | CIA-32 | FTGL: * Avoid crashing when the texture size is so small that its integer size |
| 18:31.03 | CIA-32 | FTGL: becomes zero. At the same time, round many floats instead of simply |
| 18:31.03 | CIA-32 | FTGL: flooring them to int. First part by Sean Morrison from bzflag commit |
| 18:31.03 | CIA-32 | FTGL: r14590. |
| 18:32.37 | CIA-32 | FTGL: 03sammy * r1002 10/trunk/src/ (FTCharmap.cpp FTCharmap.h): |
| 18:32.37 | CIA-32 | FTGL: * Optimize FTCharmap::FontIndex() so that font indices < 128 are precomputed |
| 18:32.37 | CIA-32 | FTGL: during FTCharmap() instantiation to avoid repeated tt_cmap4_char_index() |
| 18:32.37 | CIA-32 | FTGL: calls. Performance patch by Sean Morrison, taken from bzflag commit r14644. |
| 18:35.07 | CIA-32 | FTGL: 03sammy * r1003 10/trunk/src/ (FTCharmap.cpp FTCharmap.h FTFace.cpp FTFace.h): |
| 18:35.08 | CIA-32 | FTGL: * Optimise FTFace::KernAdvance() so that kerning for font indices < 128 is |
| 18:35.08 | CIA-32 | FTGL: precomputed during FTFace() instantiation to avoid calling FT_Get_Kerning() |
| 18:35.08 | CIA-32 | FTGL: too often. Patch by Sean Morrison, taken from bzflag commit r14652, |
| 18:35.09 | CIA-32 | FTGL: reworked for safety and performance by me. |
| 18:37.38 | brlcad | hola kierra |
| 18:37.53 | kierra | hi |
| 18:42.50 | Manu | hola kierra :) |
| 18:46.24 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=SpazzyMc@unaffiliated/spazzymcgee) |
| 18:46.33 | CIA-32 | FTGL: 03sammy * r1004 10/trunk/src/FTFace.cpp: * Proper FTFace member initialisation to prevent destructor-time crashes. |
| 18:46.49 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-113-163-117.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 18:47.48 | kierra | you're hiding , brlcad..... |
| 18:47.56 | kierra | i didnt look down the list :) |
| 18:50.08 | kierra | hola Manu |
| 18:57.56 | *** part/#bzflag kierra (n=jolie@c-68-35-232-5.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 19:26.20 | *** join/#bzflag bier (n=bier@p54A56F20.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:31.15 | CIA-32 | FTGL: 03sammy * r1005 10/trunk/src/FTGL/ (FTFont.h FTGlyph.h FTLayout.h): |
| 19:31.15 | CIA-32 | FTGL: * Make our base classes' destructors public. We want to prevent accidental |
| 19:31.15 | CIA-32 | FTGL: instantiation, but direct destruction is perfectly legal. |
| 19:41.30 | brlcad | sam: that's awesome, if you're done merging I can update and see how things look like for bz's use (which is pretty simple) |
| 19:42.03 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o brlcad] by ChanServ |
| 19:55.03 | *** join/#bzflag KingofCamelot (n=davidsan@SCTN-12-153.resnet.ucsb.edu) |
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| 20:05.22 | *** join/#bzflag Think_Differentl (n=shedelj@unaffiliated/thinkdifferentl/x-838543) |
| 20:16.35 | catay | ~bzflist |
| 20:47.30 | JeffM | spends boat loads of bzflag money :) |
| 20:47.52 | JeffM | t-shirt order of the beast $666 |
| 20:51.42 | Winny | 666 eh |
| 20:51.57 | JeffM | $666.13 to be exact |
| 20:52.00 | JeffM | demon order |
| 20:53.00 | ruskie | JeffM, went that well? |
| 20:53.06 | JeffM | it didn't |
| 20:53.12 | JeffM | our new rep is less then brillant |
| 20:53.12 | ruskie | ow? |
| 20:53.34 | JeffM | but I can't beat there prices |
| 20:53.39 | ruskie | did the first run of the shirts and stuff already finish? |
| 20:53.45 | JeffM | nearly |
| 20:53.51 | JeffM | I'm out of some sizes |
| 20:53.55 | JeffM | and low on the rest |
| 20:54.15 | JeffM | I am betting that this run will take a lot longer to sell |
| 20:58.02 | ruskie | why not wait like a few months? |
| 21:00.39 | donny_baker | ruskie: there are quite a few people who were waiting for the blue shirts... and another chance to order a hoodie |
| 21:01.54 | ruskie | I guess that's true |
| 21:02.35 | donny_baker | and I wanted my polo shirt ;) |
| 21:02.55 | donny_baker | so I have some bzflag swag I can wear to work |
| 21:04.59 | ruskie | <-- wears the tshirt :) |
| 21:05.30 | donny_baker | i can't wear a tshort to work most days :( |
| 21:11.43 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright____ (n=AAA_awri@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 21:16.46 | sam | brlcad: yes, I'm done |
| 21:17.29 | sam | brlcad: http://zoy.org/~sam/patches/patch-bzflag-ftgl-trunk.diff |
| 21:18.41 | brlcad | cool, thanks |
| 21:23.37 | *** join/#bzflag invalidsyntax (n=invalids@70-101-219-77.dsl1.pco.ca.frontiernet.net) |
| 21:24.08 | invalidsyntax | bzflag worked but now at start up it crashes i tried ~/.bzf/2.0/config.cfg but says not found |
| 21:24.47 | invalidsyntax | ~/.bzf/2.0/config.cfg |
| 21:24.52 | invalidsyntax | opps |
| 21:25.39 | invalidsyntax | X Error of failed request: BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation) |
| 21:25.50 | invalidsyntax | any helpers on |
| 21:30.40 | invalidsyntax | heeeeeeeeeeeeelp |
| 21:31.43 | catay | it suddenly stopped working? |
| 21:32.25 | invalidsyntax | X Error of failed request: BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation) |
| 21:32.36 | invalidsyntax | right at start |
| 21:32.48 | catay | did it work before ? |
| 21:32.57 | invalidsyntax | yes |
| 21:33.08 | catay | so, what did you change on your system ? |
| 21:33.14 | invalidsyntax | nothing |
| 21:33.27 | invalidsyntax | i did this Linux and unix platforms |
| 21:33.27 | invalidsyntax | ~/.bzf/2.0/config.cfg |
| 21:33.37 | invalidsyntax | but not a file |
| 21:34.10 | invalidsyntax | f your client crashes on startup or some key mappings don't work you might try removing your configuration file and restarting BZFlag. |
| 21:34.28 | invalidsyntax | i am running ubuntu 7.10 |
| 21:35.12 | *** join/#bzflag bier (n=bier@p54A56F20.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:36.07 | invalidsyntax | i tried to uninstall bu no go |
| 21:36.36 | catay | I have no idea to be honest what it could be |
| 21:36.43 | invalidsyntax | ugh |
| 21:37.17 | invalidsyntax | do you know where the config file is located |
| 21:38.52 | catay | well in your homedir under .bzf/2.0/config.cfg |
| 21:38.56 | catay | the place you mention |
| 21:39.33 | catay | but, if there never was one, how could it work before? |
| 21:44.26 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=wheeeeee@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
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| 21:53.17 | *** join/#bzflag praetorian (n=praetori@124-171-47-27.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
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| 21:59.21 | invalidsyntax | i created the config.cfg still crashes i found it its a bug in ubuntu no fix i guess |
| 22:00.01 | catay | which version of bzflag you have? |
| 22:00.10 | catay | 2.0.8 ? |
| 22:00.36 | invalidsyntax | dunno |
| 22:00.44 | invalidsyntax | cant start it lol |
| 22:00.46 | catay | is it the one that comes witn 7.10? |
| 22:01.06 | invalidsyntax | i installed it within 7.10 |
| 22:01.12 | catay | you installed it with apt-get ? |
| 22:01.20 | invalidsyntax | i have the latest but have no clue how to compile it |
| 22:01.24 | invalidsyntax | no |
| 22:02.21 | catay | do |
| 22:02.23 | catay | bzflag -v |
| 22:02.58 | invalidsyntax | ~/.bzf/2.0/config.cfg |
| 22:03.01 | invalidsyntax | opps |
| 22:03.07 | invalidsyntax | BZFlag client 2.0.8.20070909-MAINT-linux-gnu-SDL (protocol 0026) http://BZFlag.org/ |
| 22:03.57 | catay | that's the one shipped with ubuntu |
| 22:04.04 | invalidsyntax | yea |
| 22:04.33 | catay | do you run it as root? |
| 22:04.38 | invalidsyntax | no |
| 22:04.41 | catay | ok |
| 22:05.06 | catay | what kind of videocard you have? |
| 22:05.40 | invalidsyntax | its wierd it worked great before... nvidea |
| 22:06.41 | catay | did you try to remove the whole .bzf dir? |
| 22:06.44 | invalidsyntax | ubuntu is updating at this moment so maybe it will fix |
| 22:06.48 | invalidsyntax | no |
| 22:06.57 | catay | or mv it |
| 22:07.05 | invalidsyntax | mv? |
| 22:07.08 | catay | move |
| 22:07.16 | catay | mv .bzf .bzf.back |
| 22:07.24 | catay | mv .bzf .bzf.bak |
| 22:07.35 | catay | and try to start it again |
| 22:08.45 | invalidsyntax | recreates the dir then crashes lol |
| 22:08.57 | catay | with the same error? |
| 22:10.10 | invalidsyntax | yes |
| 22:10.45 | invalidsyntax | X Error of failed request: BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation) |
| 22:10.45 | invalidsyntax | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:10.45 | invalidsyntax | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:10.45 | invalidsyntax | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:10.45 | invalidsyntax | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:10.46 | invalidsyntax | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:11.01 | JeffM | what video card do you have? |
| 22:11.11 | invalidsyntax | nvidea |
| 22:11.17 | JeffM | what driver do you have? |
| 22:11.22 | invalidsyntax | not sure |
| 22:11.51 | JeffM | if you run bzflag -window -geometry 800x600 does it start? |
| 22:12.28 | invalidsyntax | yes |
| 22:12.34 | invalidsyntax | it started |
| 22:12.37 | JeffM | one of 2 issues |
| 22:12.44 | JeffM | 1) your driver is not good |
| 22:12.56 | JeffM | or 2) X doesn't know what res your display can do |
| 22:13.03 | invalidsyntax | okie |
| 22:13.09 | *** join/#bzflag noyb (n=noyb@nat/sun/x-0ea10839587d44af) |
| 22:13.10 | invalidsyntax | dokie |
| 22:13.15 | JeffM | best to go to nvidia.com and get the current driver they have |
| 22:13.21 | invalidsyntax | number 2 sounds easier |
| 22:13.23 | JeffM | that should auto detect your display |
| 22:13.28 | JeffM | and fix both |
| 22:13.43 | JeffM | if not then you have to see if you need a mode line for the display |
| 22:13.47 | invalidsyntax | how do i know proper driver |
| 22:14.03 | JeffM | what exact card is it? |
| 22:14.11 | invalidsyntax | umm dunno |
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| 22:14.18 | JeffM | find out |
| 22:14.21 | JeffM | is it modern? |
| 22:14.24 | JeffM | or a laptop? |
| 22:14.40 | invalidsyntax | its a few years old |
| 22:14.48 | JeffM | then find out what it is |
| 22:14.48 | invalidsyntax | 128mb |
| 22:14.58 | catay | invalidsyntax: check the output of 'lspci' |
| 22:15.08 | catay | invalidsyntax: it should mention your videacard |
| 22:15.31 | invalidsyntax | nVidia Corporation NV18 [GeForce4 MX 4000] |
| 22:15.36 | JeffM | ouch |
| 22:15.40 | JeffM | you have my condolences |
| 22:15.47 | invalidsyntax | why |
| 22:15.59 | JeffM | cus it's a Mx ;) |
| 22:16.08 | JeffM | you run 32 bit or 64 bit linux |
| 22:16.13 | invalidsyntax | 32 |
| 22:16.18 | JeffM | http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_x86_96.43.05.html |
| 22:16.50 | JeffM | follow the instructions |
| 22:16.58 | JeffM | you may have to get kernel headers for your distro |
| 22:17.03 | JeffM | but it's prety straight forward |
| 22:17.19 | invalidsyntax | ok |
| 22:17.21 | invalidsyntax | ack |
| 22:18.04 | JeffM | the error you got was basicly X windows saying that it was unable to change to the size requested that happens when the driver dosn't tell X about the display. |
| 22:19.46 | invalidsyntax | sh NVIDIA-Linux-x86-96.43.05-pkg1.run |
| 22:19.54 | invalidsyntax | wont work |
| 22:20.03 | invalidsyntax | sh: Can't open NVIDIA-Linux-x86-96.43.05-pkg1.run |
| 22:20.37 | catay | invalidsyntax: you might have to chmod it : do 'chmod +x NVIDIA-Linux-x86-96.43.05-pkg1.run' |
| 22:20.44 | catay | and try again |
| 22:21.11 | invalidsyntax | no such file although its on my desktop |
| 22:21.57 | catay | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:22.23 | invalidsyntax | no such file or directory |
| 22:22.50 | invalidsyntax | cant i just click on the dang file lol |
| 22:23.38 | catay | won't work, read the instructions at the url jeffm mentioned first |
| 22:24.11 | invalidsyntax | STEP 3: Install |
| 22:24.11 | invalidsyntax | Type "sh NVIDIA-Linux-x86-96.43.05-pkg1.run did it |
| 22:25.31 | invalidsyntax | gosh this is impossible |
| 22:26.05 | invalidsyntax | i will just play it in 800x600 lol |
| 22:26.48 | Think_Differentl | invalidsyntax, you might need to run it as a superuser |
| 22:27.09 | invalidsyntax | did sudo |
| 22:27.33 | catay | hmmm, there are also nvidia drivers provided with ubuntu |
| 22:27.38 | catay | binary ones |
| 22:28.32 | Think_Differentl | I'm running 8.04 with the nVidia drivers. I had to go into runlevel 3 and run it with sudo. |
| 22:29.49 | *** join/#bzflag KingofCamelot (n=davidsan@SCTN-12-153.resnet.ucsb.edu) |
| 22:29.54 | invalidsyntax | i will wait till update finishes |
| 22:30.04 | invalidsyntax | thanks goota run |
| 22:30.50 | JeffM | if he wants clicky stuff, he installed the WRONG os |
| 22:31.55 | catay | heh |
| 22:32.07 | Lukstr | the clickiest seems to be osx |
| 22:32.25 | Winny | Lukstr: I've had to to more terminal stuff in OS X then Windows |
| 22:32.43 | Winny | s/Lukstr/Luckster |
| 22:32.50 | Lukstr | curse you! |
| 22:33.21 | JeffM | Winny, only cus you asked for it |
| 22:33.33 | JeffM | on OSX he'd not have to ever install a driver |
| 22:33.39 | JeffM | cus they happen by "magic" |
| 22:33.41 | Lukstr | indeed |
| 22:33.47 | Lukstr | by far the most user friendly OS |
| 22:33.50 | JeffM | gnomes |
| 22:33.51 | Winny | yep |
| 22:33.56 | JeffM | they install them at night |
| 22:34.12 | Winny | hehe |
| 22:34.35 | whodaman- | haha |
| 22:35.03 | *** part/#bzflag whodaman- (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
| 22:37.09 | Winny | goes to play with his D40 |
| 22:38.14 | Lukstr | warms up his D50 |
| 22:38.59 | Winny | tacks a 0 on the end of his |
| 22:38.59 | Winny | :p |
| 22:39.02 | Lukstr | haha |
| 22:39.08 | Lukstr | I was going to suggest combining them |
| 22:39.22 | JeffM | as long as winny can form the head |
| 22:39.38 | Lukstr | Double D 2000 |
| 22:40.00 | Winny | hehe |
| 22:40.02 | Think_Differentl | fires up his 400D |
| 22:40.56 | Lukstr | yay, firefox has succesfully eaten over a gigabyte of ram :( |
| 22:41.10 | JeffM | good thing you have 3 more right? |
| 22:41.26 | pacman87 | no, the other two are for vista... |
| 22:41.32 | Lukstr | never! |
| 22:41.45 | Lukstr | the other almost-three are for pong |
| 22:41.53 | JeffM | almost3? |
| 22:41.56 | Lukstr | sill 32-bit address space and 512mb video card |
| 22:41.58 | JeffM | 32bit? |
| 22:42.07 | JeffM | go 64 |
| 22:42.14 | Think_Differentl | ff3 only eats up ~300MB for me :) |
| 22:42.28 | Lukstr | Does 64XP at least have a 32 bit emulation for programs? |
| 22:42.34 | JeffM | yeah |
| 22:42.36 | pacman87 | has a 256MB stick on my wall, along with a pci modem and ethernet card |
| 22:42.37 | Lukstr | *real* 32 bit emulation? |
| 22:42.38 | JeffM | WoW |
| 22:42.40 | Lukstr | or half-assed |
| 22:42.42 | JeffM | Windows on Windows |
| 22:42.50 | JeffM | I'm using 64bit XP right now |
| 22:43.05 | Lukstr | perhaps one day |
| 22:43.07 | JeffM | the only thing that dosn't work that's 32 bit is shell extensions |
| 22:43.09 | Lukstr | should I happen across a copy |
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| 22:43.28 | JeffM | but prety much everyone has 64 bit shell DLLs these days |
| 22:43.55 | Lukstr | hopefully the next windows release kills microsoft so I'll have little to worry about |
| 22:44.16 | JeffM | you can't run your OS of choice on your personal computer? |
| 22:44.33 | Lukstr | I might throw out the money for Parallels |
| 22:44.35 | Lukstr | Well, I can |
| 22:44.49 | Lukstr | but the rest of the world uses too much windows |
| 22:44.59 | JeffM | VMware :) |
| 22:45.10 | JeffM | but really 64bit XP is fine |
| 22:45.16 | JeffM | I've used it here for over a year |
| 22:45.34 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman- (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
| 22:45.38 | JeffM | the only thing it can't do is load a 32bit DLL from a 64 bit app, or vice versa |
| 22:45.52 | JeffM | and that only happens with the shell DLLs |
| 22:48.29 | Lukstr | hrmz |
| 22:48.47 | Lukstr | I suppose vendor support for 64 bit has improved in the last few years |
| 22:52.20 | Lukstr | note to self: do not tap computer case with feet while burning Ubuntu discs :( |
| 22:52.40 | Lukstr | tertiary note to self: move computer case away from feet. |
| 23:09.22 | JeffM | Lukstr, I have drivers for my video card, sound card, and printer. |
| 23:10.05 | JeffM | you should be able to check your hardware |
| 23:10.13 | Lukstr | hrmz |
| 23:10.40 | JeffM | what other hardware do you have? |
| 23:10.46 | JeffM | anything wacky? |
| 23:11.09 | Lukstr | on my modern boxen, no |
| 23:11.17 | Lukstr | probably not |
| 23:11.21 | Lukstr | laptop's a toss up |
| 23:11.31 | Lukstr | but I don't even care about it much |
| 23:11.32 | JeffM | it only makes sense for stuff with 4 gigs of ram |
| 23:11.45 | Lukstr | aye |
| 23:12.00 | Lukstr | I'd have to check my software list against XP |
| 23:12.04 | Lukstr | hang on a sec I'll PM you |
| 23:12.21 | JeffM | software is fine |
| 23:12.23 | JeffM | it's just drivers |
| 23:12.29 | JeffM | 32 bit stuff runs fine |
| 23:12.50 | JeffM | the only app problem I have is itunes |
| 23:12.53 | JeffM | it won't rip CDs |
| 23:13.13 | Lukstr | do you know if the sysinternals suite runs? |
| 23:13.24 | JeffM | I do not know |
| 23:13.52 | Lukstr | I couldn't survive without it |
| 23:14.18 | JeffM | if they are normal apps, then probalby |
| 23:16.51 | Lukstr | http://slexy.org/view/s20J3sS0Tx |
| 23:17.00 | Lukstr | there are a handful of bizarre apps |
| 23:17.05 | Lukstr | that I doubt I could live without |
| 23:17.19 | JeffM | as I said, apps work fine |
| 23:17.25 | JeffM | it's just drivers |
| 23:17.30 | Lukstr | hmm |
| 23:17.47 | JeffM | even apps that install 32bit DLLs are fine |
| 23:17.53 | Lukstr | yeah |
| 23:17.57 | Lukstr | you just can't mix 'em |
| 23:18.00 | JeffM | it just has to match up 64 to 64 and 32 to 32 |
| 23:18.00 | JeffM | yeah |
| 23:18.12 | Lukstr | perhaps I'll give it a run then |
| 23:18.32 | Lukstr | once a copy magically appears in my cd drive |
| 23:18.35 | JeffM | oh and no service pack 3 |
| 23:18.37 | JeffM | ever |
| 23:18.52 | Winny | JeffM: x64 XP gets the Server 2003 service packs |
| 23:19.04 | JeffM | yes |
| 23:19.13 | JeffM | and they ain't gonna do a SP3 for it |
| 23:19.21 | JeffM | just the SP2 and the hotfixes |
| 23:19.24 | Lukstr | MS abandoned x64 I thought |
| 23:19.33 | JeffM | XP64 |
| 23:19.47 | JeffM | not vista64 and W764 |
| 23:20.32 | Lukstr | I pretend vista doesn't exist |
| 23:20.42 | JeffM | so does most of the userbase ;) |
| 23:21.16 | JeffM | but still cus of 64bit vista and server OSs, vendors had to get on the 64 bit clean bandwagon |
| 23:21.34 | Lukstr | true |
| 23:21.44 | Lukstr | I wonder if Ubuntu 64 bit isn't the crap it used to be |
| 23:22.25 | Lukstr | they should have just made XP33 bit, would have satisfied me :P |
| 23:22.34 | JeffM | I know hearty herron won't conenct to a wireless network on my laptop to save it's life |
| 23:22.56 | Lukstr | hah, you don't say |
| 23:23.05 | Lukstr | I had 32 bit installed on my laptop, no problems |
| 23:23.08 | Lukstr | threw 64 bit on |
| 23:23.14 | Lukstr | no wireless immediately |
| 23:24.05 | JeffM | I don't even know what it installed, 32 or 64 |
| 23:24.21 | Lukstr | what's your kernel? |
| 23:24.48 | JeffM | dunno |
| 23:24.49 | JeffM | magic |
| 23:24.54 | JeffM | I put the CD in and it did "stuff" |
| 23:25.03 | JeffM | then booted |
| 23:25.10 | Lukstr | hehe |
| 23:27.17 | JeffM | looks like it installed i686 smp kernel |
| 23:29.00 | Lukstr | so you have a dual core? |
| 23:29.07 | JeffM | yeah |
| 23:29.11 | Lukstr | good stuffs |
| 23:29.11 | JeffM | Dell 1520 |
| 23:29.38 | JeffM | I think the only single core computer I own is the SGI 02 |
| 23:29.43 | JeffM | and my phone |
| 23:30.00 | Lukstr | is that a 64 bit processor? |
| 23:30.12 | JeffM | it's a core 2 duo, so yeah ;) |
| 23:30.32 | JeffM | it's faster then this desktop machine |
| 23:30.38 | Lukstr | intel had some bizarre naming schemes for a while |
| 23:30.51 | JeffM | I got it like 5 months ago |
| 23:31.09 | JeffM | C2D, 4 gigs of ram, GF 8600, etc.. |
| 23:32.51 | Lukstr | insane |
| 23:32.59 | Lukstr | physical dimensions? |
| 23:34.35 | JeffM | it's a normal 15.4 |
| 23:34.47 | JeffM | standard dell laptop |
| 23:34.52 | Lukstr | ah |
| 23:34.59 | Lukstr | better than my crap Acer |
| 23:35.43 | JeffM | I had a gateway, but the screen res was too small |
| 23:35.45 | JeffM | so I sold it |
| 23:35.55 | Lukstr | shudders |
| 23:38.49 | JeffM | it was fine, just 1280x800 don't cut it |
| 23:39.13 | Lukstr | :( |
| 23:39.17 | Lukstr | I'm fine with 1280x800 |
| 23:39.32 | JeffM | 1680x1050 baby :) |
| 23:39.49 | Lukstr | ludacris! |
| 23:40.10 | JeffM | not when you are used to 1920x1200 on your desktop machine |
| 23:40.41 | Lukstr | s/ludacris/ludicrous/ |
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| 23:42.41 | Lukstr | I run 2560x1024 across two 19" monitors |
| 23:42.59 | Lukstr | I want to add two wide screen monitors to that collection though :P |
| 23:43.01 | JeffM | 24 and a 19 at home,. 22 and a 19 here |
| 23:43.50 | spldart | runs a 32" and a 14' projector :) |
| 23:43.56 | Lukstr | hah |
| 23:43.57 | spldart | */big monitor syndrome |
| 23:44.07 | Winny | clearly compensating for something ;) |
| 23:44.13 | spldart | Yeah... |
| 23:44.17 | spldart | I got a tiny motorcyle |
| 23:51.10 | Lukstr | my set up should make most of you cry |
| 23:51.11 | Lukstr | I hope |
| 23:51.53 | Lukstr | I'm using my laptop as the workhorse, to do all my compiling/testing on |
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