| 00:00.01 | rtfm | almost too close to thief ;) |
| 00:00.08 | rtfm | just get a theif and take their flag |
| 00:00.53 | Erroneous | torghul: yeah, there are separate downloads for 7.1 and 8 |
| 00:01.33 | torghul | Erroneous: ok. thanks |
| 00:02.32 | Erroneous | it's very handy for people who have multiple projects with different indentation requirements |
| 00:03.23 | Erroneous | supposes he should build it on 9 too |
| 00:07.28 | Epyon | cries in terror watching FFXIII versus trailer again. |
| 00:07.58 | Epyon | It scares the hell out of me, how the hell could they do that in realtime D: |
| 00:14.12 | Epyon | BTW, JeffM, are there any plans for Illumination and Normal Map support for BZW? |
| 00:14.27 | Epyon | I guess that'll not happen before the graphics engine merge? |
| 00:16.02 | JeffM | Epyon, they would be low on the list even with an engine |
| 00:17.06 | Constitution | BZBB admins: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=122226 |
| 00:17.16 | Constitution | he attached a badwords file |
| 00:17.50 | JeffM | heh |
| 00:18.40 | JeffM | retcons Constitution |
| 00:20.25 | JeffM | javawizard2539, if you can convince me that you have your svn issues worked out (you can keep current code and not jack up the repo ) then you are on the road to getting commit access. |
| 00:22.06 | JeffM | and if you are a student, seriously .. ponder the Summer of Code |
| 00:24.37 | JeffM | brlcad, when you want to talk to the man? |
| 00:28.38 | pacman87 | patch is submitted for respawning after flag cap |
| 00:28.44 | Winny | BZ Tax audit time? ;) |
| 00:28.58 | JeffM | pacman87, cool, thanks |
| 00:29.03 | Constitution | pacman87: sshh, you'll wake JeffM |
| 00:29.07 | JeffM | Winny, of sorts |
| 00:29.12 | Winny | muh-oh |
| 00:29.17 | pacman87 | Constitution: too late |
| 00:29.19 | JeffM | Constitution, if you want to apply it... go for it |
| 00:29.26 | JeffM | as long as 3.0 is cool |
| 00:29.37 | JeffM | but then you have to fix a bug in 3.0 to make up for it |
| 00:29.39 | JeffM | ;) |
| 00:29.45 | Constitution | lol |
| 00:29.57 | JeffM | and he thinks I'm joking |
| 00:30.00 | Constitution | the other day I fixed a spelling error! |
| 00:30.18 | Constitution | I'll work on the keyboard input issue we talked about the other day :) |
| 00:30.27 | JeffM | heh |
| 00:30.36 | JeffM | wow, nano sucks to edit wide files |
| 00:30.49 | spldart | w0rd |
| 00:30.51 | JeffM | oh, you can drag the window |
| 00:30.52 | rtfm | JeffM: yes it does |
| 00:30.58 | JeffM | nano just sucks a lot less now |
| 00:31.18 | rtfm | drag the window? |
| 00:31.26 | JeffM | indeed |
| 00:32.23 | oojah | nano -w |
| 00:32.28 | JeffM | no |
| 00:32.29 | JeffM | just drag |
| 00:33.01 | Constitution | pacman87: thanks for the patch... in the future, watch out for the tabs and spacing for parenthesis :) |
| 00:33.29 | pacman87 | i need to read DEVINFO, too :) |
| 00:34.16 | JeffM | how do you make something bold in HTML? |
| 00:34.30 | Winny | <b></b> |
| 00:34.35 | Epyon | er <strong></strong> :P |
| 00:34.47 | JeffM | b or strong? |
| 00:34.54 | Winny | either works |
| 00:35.07 | JeffM | what is more www standard? |
| 00:35.09 | JeffM | it's for the mainpage |
| 00:35.17 | Winny | <strong> |
| 00:35.17 | JeffM | and we know how the man hates that to have errors |
| 00:35.20 | JeffM | thanks |
| 00:35.24 | Winny | oh, THAT man :) |
| 00:35.31 | Epyon | strong is more "trendy" but anyone uses "b" anyway :P |
| 00:35.40 | Epyon | everyone xP |
| 00:35.45 | JeffM | Winny, yes. but oddly it has something to with the other the man |
| 00:35.53 | Winny | hmm |
| 00:36.05 | JeffM | had to add the store to the main page |
| 00:36.37 | Winny | Yay -> http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fbusyflag.org%2F |
| 00:36.40 | JeffM | hmmm.... now for the part I hate |
| 00:37.11 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03macsforme * r16749 10/branches/v2_0branch/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: Accept SF patch #1920410 from pacman97: fix queued spawns after flag captures. |
| 00:37.11 | rtfm | JeffM: either works. They have different uses though, but visually are usually the same. I think one of them is *designed* for bold text, while the other one is more to stress text |
| 00:37.23 | rtfm | like for a screen reader |
| 00:37.36 | JeffM | Constitution, when you can, please try to get realnames for patches |
| 00:37.42 | JeffM | so they can go into the changelog |
| 00:37.51 | Constitution | in the commit messages? |
| 00:38.09 | Winny | I forgot to ask: Do I need the "Opel GL", "SF.net", etc stuff on the main page? (The little icons) |
| 00:38.09 | JeffM | yeah, the changelog is built form the commit messages now IIRC |
| 00:38.25 | Constitution | k |
| 00:38.29 | JeffM | Winny, sf yes, GL yes, the others, we can debate |
| 00:38.34 | Winny | k |
| 00:38.41 | JeffM | Constitution, it also helps if we have any leagal "issues" later |
| 00:38.54 | JeffM | like if somone says that code is stolen, etc.. |
| 00:39.24 | JeffM | time to play "name that font" |
| 00:39.40 | spldart | :) |
| 00:40.33 | Epyon | Yeah, always be careful about the fonts O.o |
| 00:40.40 | JeffM | arial narrow it is not |
| 00:41.16 | Winny | pastes the photoshop font list |
| 00:45.42 | Constitution | would I be correct to attribute this to a driver bug? http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1919629&group_id=3248&atid=103248 |
| 00:46.06 | JeffM | probably |
| 00:46.26 | JeffM | I'd say, "can't dupe, probably driver issue, if you get more info let us know" |
| 00:46.33 | Erroneous | yes, it is |
| 00:46.42 | JeffM | then end it with "nVidia 4 life!" |
| 00:46.46 | Erroneous | crashes inside fglrx are almost always bugs in fglrx |
| 00:47.18 | JeffM | oh and closing non dupe bugs dons't count as "fixing" ;) |
| 00:47.35 | Constitution | aw |
| 00:48.50 | Erroneous | hah |
| 00:52.00 | JeffM | hates doing button updates to the bb template |
| 00:52.09 | spldart | hehe @ fglrx... tiz suckage |
| 01:06.18 | JeffM | there we go, 2 new buttons at the top of the fourms :) |
| 01:08.56 | Winny | "FREE CAM!!" ? |
| 01:08.58 | Winny | runs |
| 01:09.14 | rtfm | wow, those really suck ;) |
| 01:09.21 | Winny | JeffM: one is in a weird font |
| 01:09.39 | whodaman | lol! Winny |
| 01:09.45 | Winny | ..? |
| 01:10.08 | rtfm | the 'free cam' thing |
| 01:10.20 | Winny | oh |
| 01:10.21 | whodaman | Which wasn't funny at all. ;) |
| 01:10.34 | spldart | I'm so raiding store.bzflag when my tax return gets in |
| 01:10.39 | Winny | haha |
| 01:10.49 | Epyon | Angels deserve to die. |
| 01:11.08 | Thumper_ | JeffM: really easy (I think) but then I'm comfortable with shell scripting and unix |
| 01:11.11 | spldart | Maybe angels think you des... N/M :) |
| 01:11.33 | Epyon | heh |
| 01:11.51 | Thumper_ | JeffM: you can have a copy of the stuff I use if you like |
| 01:17.55 | JeffM | Winny, you mean the bold one? |
| 01:18.04 | donny_baker | hmmm... what about a wiki button? :) (please) |
| 01:18.11 | JeffM | donny_baker, make one |
| 01:18.13 | JeffM | put it in |
| 01:18.15 | JeffM | know the JOY |
| 01:18.23 | JeffM | Thumper_, maybe, thanks for the offer |
| 01:18.28 | donny_baker | k, I will |
| 01:18.34 | Thumper_ | JeffM: anytime :) |
| 01:18.42 | JeffM | you have photoshop donny_baker ? |
| 01:19.54 | JeffM | http://my.bzflag.org/staff/jeffm/BB_title_buttons.psd |
| 01:20.05 | JeffM | that has both the up and down layers |
| 01:20.51 | blast007 | JeffM: hehe. it can't be that bad, can it? ;) |
| 01:21.01 | JeffM | make 2 images per button |
| 01:21.03 | JeffM | find the file |
| 01:21.11 | JeffM | find the INCREDEBLY long line |
| 01:21.17 | JeffM | dupe it |
| 01:21.23 | JeffM | edit it in like 8places |
| 01:21.26 | JeffM | then find the preloader |
| 01:21.33 | JeffM | and add the on state to the preload |
| 01:21.34 | JeffM | :( |
| 01:21.39 | JeffM | it ain't trivial |
| 01:21.46 | blast007 | sounds straight forward to me :) |
| 01:21.57 | blast007 | but I'm a webhead |
| 01:22.05 | JeffM | the same word is duped in the long line, like 15 times |
| 01:22.34 | JeffM | should have some sort of php function "add title button" :) |
| 01:23.22 | blast007 | the text shouldn't be an image |
| 01:23.34 | blast007 | that would make it easier to add new buttons ;) |
| 01:23.35 | blast007 | and translate |
| 01:23.40 | JeffM | indeed |
| 01:23.57 | JeffM | then it woudln't have to be in the freaking template ether |
| 01:24.22 | JeffM | donny_baker, overall_header is the file you want |
| 01:24.44 | blast007 | ah, phpBB3's default template has a little icon, and raw text |
| 01:24.51 | JeffM | good |
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| 01:31.55 | jwir3 | hey everyone |
| 01:32.05 | blast007 | hello jwir3 |
| 01:33.25 | uso | pacman87: was it broken in r16641? |
| 01:34.21 | pacman87 | uso: r16641 added an additional (unnecessary) wait time before allowing spawns after your flag was capped |
| 01:34.37 | pacman87 | if you were already dead at the time |
| 01:35.25 | uso | and what else is r16641 good for? the commit messages sounds as it describes the behaviour as it always was? |
| 01:35.38 | JeffM | finds the entire death on cap unessisary ;) |
| 01:36.23 | uso | well, I do not see the sense in this changes, so I better back them out completely? |
| 01:36.47 | JeffM | the wait is to minimise a cheat |
| 01:37.01 | JeffM | the cap problem was a bug |
| 01:37.23 | JeffM | for a normal death we want it to wait |
| 01:37.35 | JeffM | for a cap death we should jsut let em respawn |
| 01:37.50 | uso | so you could join before the explode time has ended with a cheat client and this got fixed by r16641? |
| 01:38.02 | JeffM | somewhere aroudn there |
| 01:38.09 | JeffM | but yes that was the cheat |
| 01:38.13 | JeffM | instnat rejoins |
| 01:38.20 | blast007 | respawns* |
| 01:38.22 | JeffM | that combined with blind "I got killed" |
| 01:38.31 | JeffM | respawn yeah |
| 01:38.50 | JeffM | I really gotta do the shot ID thing for trunk |
| 01:38.59 | JeffM | then that will fix the blind I got killed message too |
| 01:39.03 | uso | ok, so it's a cheat fix (with a bug which got fixed now) |
| 01:39.06 | uso | good :) |
| 01:39.19 | blast007 | yup :) |
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| 02:10.11 | Winny | KTL: eh? |
| 02:10.59 | Winny | you pinged me yesterday, or earlier today |
| 02:11.05 | Winny | I forget what it was |
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| 02:52.56 | javawizard2539 | JeffM, getting back to your message at 18:20, I'm going to try checking out a new copy of the code and then diff it with my version to see if there's anything that's still out of date |
| 02:53.07 | JeffM | coo |
| 02:53.13 | javawizard2539 | and if there is, I'll copy out the sections of code I modified and re-checkout |
| 02:53.21 | javawizard2539 | Hopefully that will fix any SVN issues i'm having |
| 02:56.31 | brlcad | JeffM: hit a little snag, need a couple more days |
| 02:57.07 | brlcad | the guys that looked like the best fit aren't comfortable accepting a game |
| 02:57.28 | brlcad | so still talking with them, and started talking to "the other guys" too |
| 02:58.59 | JeffM | ahh ok |
| 02:59.08 | JeffM | and how hard is it it for us to do it ourself? |
| 02:59.50 | brlcad | it's a lot of work |
| 03:00.00 | JeffM | k |
| 03:00.09 | brlcad | really, a lot, and requires manual update effort a couple times a year |
| 03:00.57 | brlcad | especially to get to tax-exempt, thats even more forms and renewal papers that have to be updated every year |
| 03:01.29 | brlcad | the other group can work too |
| 03:01.37 | brlcad | their policies are actually even more explicit |
| 03:01.51 | brlcad | and they have some very familiar traits that someone(tm) might be even more happy with |
| 03:02.01 | JeffM | heh |
| 03:02.06 | JeffM | will they be ok wiht a game tho? |
| 03:02.13 | brlcad | just started with them |
| 03:02.36 | brlcad | haven't gotten into it yet |
| 03:02.59 | brlcad | shame too, contacted half the current sfc orgs and they were all very happy with their relationship with them |
| 03:03.26 | JeffM | wonder why they care if it's a game or not |
| 03:04.45 | brlcad | that's where our conversation left off, I'm inquiring |
| 03:05.08 | brlcad | might be able to make a strong case for us like I did with google |
| 03:05.36 | brlcad | wow, we're up to more than 200+ web hits per minute sustained |
| 03:06.05 | brlcad | at least for the past two hours |
| 03:07.47 | JeffM | I'm mostly just curious why they care, I mean it's open source, and established ;) |
| 03:08.08 | JeffM | I think they may jus get too many kiddies asking |
| 03:08.46 | Alesis-Novik | good night everyone |
| 03:10.13 | L4m3r | do flag caps call playerKilled for dead players? oops |
| 03:10.31 | L4m3r | could've sworn they just set respawnOnBase... oh well |
| 03:11.43 | JeffM | L4m3r: IIRC we just kill them now from the server |
| 03:11.56 | L4m3r | OH |
| 03:11.58 | L4m3r | that's right |
| 03:12.02 | L4m3r | trunk kills them |
| 03:12.05 | JeffM | cus a plugin can say "no don't kill them. spare them" |
| 03:12.16 | L4m3r | in 2.0 the clients kill themselves |
| 03:12.47 | L4m3r | hm... but you'd think that a dead client's death msg would still be ignored |
| 03:13.33 | JeffM | should |
| 03:14.26 | L4m3r | at some point, someone tweaked 2.0 to set respawnOnBase for dead players on a cap, because people were dying before the cap, waiting, and getting a free random spawn after the cap |
| 03:14.40 | L4m3r | I thought that was the only difference |
| 03:14.45 | JeffM | ahh |
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| 03:31.50 | Epyon | That's it for me tonight. G'night all! |
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| 05:00.49 | jude- | hello all |
| 05:04.47 | brlcad | hey jude- |
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| 05:26.55 | Constitution | hi jude- |
| 05:26.55 | jude- | hey brlcad, Constitution |
| 05:26.55 | Constitution | how's Tucson? :) |
| 05:27.05 | jude- | warm :) |
| 05:27.06 | jude- | 80 degrees |
| 05:27.13 | jude- | tomorrow |
| 05:27.20 | jude- | (it was snowing a couple days ago, however) |
| 05:27.28 | jude- | how's northern Arizona? |
| 05:27.29 | Constitution | snow in Tucson? wow |
| 05:27.32 | Constitution | been nice |
| 05:27.37 | Constitution | ~weather KPRC |
| 05:28.01 | jude- | still cold |
| 05:28.35 | jude- | yeah--it was snowing in Catalina, which is in the foothills of the mountains surrounding Tucson |
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| 05:29.06 | jude- | but technically it's part of the Tucson metropolis |
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| 05:40.48 | Mets | are there any known cases of plugins causing bzfs to segfault? |
| 05:41.17 | JeffMMain | sure |
| 05:41.31 | JeffMMain | they if they seg, they kill bzfs with a seg |
| 05:41.41 | Mets | yeah, I'm experiencing that now |
| 05:42.06 | Mets | I compiled all of them from source with the latest version of 2.0.x from svn |
| 05:42.26 | Mets | half won't load, and the other half segfault bzfs whenever they actually have to do something in game |
| 05:42.43 | JeffMMain | that sucks |
| 05:43.16 | Mets | I'm sure it's a problem on my end, just wondering if it was a common thing with an easy fix |
| 05:43.51 | JeffMMain | nope |
| 05:44.32 | Mets | is there a crash log that is stored anywhere? |
| 05:45.02 | JeffMMain | nope |
| 05:45.23 | JeffMMain | build debug and run in a debuger |
| 05:46.38 | jude- | Mets: also, you could just run the server inside of valgrind and read those logs |
| 05:46.51 | jude- | that'll tell you exactly where SIGSEGV is triggered |
| 05:47.11 | JeffMMain | so will the debuger ;) |
| 05:47.22 | JeffMMain | and is probably a "bit" easier |
| 05:47.32 | jude- | but valgrind doesn't require a debug rebuild, does it? |
| 05:47.46 | Mets | ah, thanks jude, I'll try that first since I don't have to rebuild |
| 05:48.01 | jude- | Mets: I'm not sure--JeffMMain may know |
| 05:48.59 | JeffMMain | valgrind needs instrumentation in the build |
| 05:49.09 | JeffMMain | and is usualy a lot slower |
| 05:49.22 | jude- | indeed--valgrind emulates the CPU |
| 05:49.46 | jude- | so, I guess you're going to need to rebuild |
| 05:49.47 | Mets | would valgrind tell you any useful information when a plugin fails to load? |
| 05:49.58 | Mets | darn... |
| 05:50.02 | jude- | it will tell you where every single memory leak occurs |
| 05:50.27 | jude- | segmentation fault errors are caused by a process trying to access memory outside of its allocated pages |
| 05:50.34 | jude- | so valgrind picks them up |
| 05:50.50 | Mets | right, but it doesn't segfault when it can't load the plugin, it just doesn't load it |
| 05:50.59 | jude- | right |
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| 05:51.09 | Mets | but I should be able to make it segfault pretty easy anyway lol |
| 05:51.47 | jude- | has found a disturbingly high number of memory errors with the fglrx driver when running BZWB inside of Valgrind on his desktop... |
| 05:53.10 | jude- | if a plugin fails to load, it will just fail to load |
| 05:53.33 | jude- | if the bzfs process makes a memory error while trying to load a plugin, both valgrind and gdb will report them |
| 05:54.13 | JeffMMain | if it's more then one plug-in, it's probably some build issue |
| 05:54.21 | JeffMMain | did you build with plug-in support |
| 05:55.29 | Mets | I built it with --enable-plugins and --enable-shared |
| 05:55.52 | Mets | jude-: it just crashed, i'm reading through the valgrind output |
| 05:56.28 | Mets | JeffMMain: I'm almost positive it's a problem with something I did, or something my server lacks, just not sure which yet. It's not a problem with the code |
| 05:56.28 | jude- | the output from the crash should be less than 100 lines from the bottom |
| 05:56.44 | Mets | yes trying to not post 100 lines in here :) |
| 05:56.57 | jude- | use a pastebin :) |
| 05:58.17 | Mets | true, one sec |
| 06:00.02 | Mets | http://pastebin.ca/949957 |
| 06:00.37 | Mets | I tried running the chathistory plugin |
| 06:00.41 | Mets | as soon as I typed /last it segfaulted |
| 06:01.46 | jude- | looks like we have a problem with the chatting system |
| 06:02.24 | jude- | look at lines 140-142 |
| 06:02.27 | L4m3r | or the plugin dereferences a null pointer or something |
| 06:02.33 | L4m3r | many of them do |
| 06:02.43 | L4m3r | ...someone should make a debugger for idiots |
| 06:02.57 | L4m3r | I just wasted half an hour bug-hunting because I typed a filename wrong |
| 06:03.03 | jude- | lol |
| 06:03.12 | jude- | been there before :) |
| 06:03.14 | Mets | lol |
| 06:03.52 | L4m3r | seems to work now tho :) |
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| 06:05.00 | Mets | jude-: for what it's worth, other plugins have caused it to segfault |
| 06:05.14 | pacman87 | L4m3r: would dereferencing a null pointer cause a bzfs crash, or a client crash? |
| 06:05.27 | Mets | that require no chat action |
| 06:05.32 | L4m3r | bzfs crash |
| 06:05.39 | pacman87 | because i think one of my plugins is causing clients to crash |
| 06:05.41 | L4m3r | in bzfs or a plugin, that is |
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| 06:05.47 | L4m3r | there are ways to do that too, lol |
| 06:05.54 | pacman87 | i think i found one |
| 06:06.17 | L4m3r | plays with his app and sends some lolcats to his lappy from his desktop via UDP |
| 06:06.17 | pacman87 | but i haven't been able to find it / haven't gotten around to looking hard enough for it |
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| 06:07.21 | Mets | I can recompile with --enable-debug if that will provide better info |
| 06:08.00 | jude- | does --enable-debug cause bzfs to actually print out stuff? |
| 06:08.16 | Mets | I've honestly never used the bzflag debugger |
| 06:08.47 | jude- | Mets: bzflag doesn't have a debugger. I'm wondering (to anyone) whether or not the --enable-debug flag will cause bzfs to print out debugging information when it runs |
| 06:11.04 | JeffM2501 | enable debug builds in symbols |
| 06:11.12 | JeffM2501 | then you run in GDB and it'll show you where it is crashing |
| 06:11.56 | jude- | oh |
| 06:12.26 | jude- | Mets: I think your build has debugging symbols--Valgrind was able to print out the source code line numbers where the errors occured |
| 06:12.57 | Mets | worth a shot, one sec |
| 06:18.45 | Mets | k easy output this time |
| 06:19.05 | Mets | Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. |
| 06:19.05 | Mets | 0x40007f06 in do_lookup_x () from /lib/ld-linux.so.2 |
| 06:20.06 | jude- | that's within ld-linux, not bzfs |
| 06:20.17 | jude- | can you get a trace? |
| 06:20.29 | Mets | yeah I figured it was my setup |
| 06:21.13 | Mets | maybe |
| 06:21.15 | jude- | no |
| 06:21.18 | jude- | it's not |
| 06:21.29 | jude- | ld-linux is where the segfault error was trapped |
| 06:21.36 | jude- | but that's not the same as ld-linux *causing* it |
| 06:21.54 | jude- | no more than strcpy() is to blame if the program that calls it specifies a bad memory address for dest |
| 06:22.47 | Mets | ok I just type "trace" in gdb? |
| 06:22.48 | jude- | if ld-linux had problems with it, you'd be seeing a LOT more segfaults |
| 06:22.56 | jude- | from a LOT of different programs |
| 06:24.24 | jude- | no, "trace" will not do it |
| 06:24.37 | jude- | you need to see the call hierarchy |
| 06:25.08 | Mets | I can give you what "where" outputs |
| 06:26.44 | javawizard2539 | Is anyone on here an SF admin? |
| 06:26.54 | javawizard2539 | I accidentally reposted a bug report |
| 06:27.00 | Mets | do you want me to actually step through the program |
| 06:27.05 | Mets | and trace it out that way |
| 06:28.15 | jude- | Mets: do you know how to use gdb? |
| 06:28.37 | Mets | yeah but it's been awhile |
| 06:31.22 | Mets | it just says "single stepping through do_lookup_x" but it doesn't know it's line number |
| 06:33.25 | Mets | do I need to rebuild? |
| 06:34.09 | jude- | no, you need to learn how to use gdb |
| 06:34.41 | Mets | lol |
| 06:34.56 | Mets | sorry I'm an engineer not a programmer |
| 06:35.41 | Mets | can you just tell me what you want me to type, I can make it work from there |
| 06:35.54 | jude- | first, specify which file you want to run |
| 06:36.00 | Mets | i know how to do that part |
| 06:36.06 | jude- | then run it |
| 06:36.07 | Mets | file and args, got it |
| 06:36.13 | jude- | then it crashes |
| 06:36.32 | Mets | right |
| 06:36.56 | jude- | what's the output from "where"? |
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| 06:38.18 | jude- | or "bt"? |
| 06:38.42 | Mets | on the pastebin |
| 06:38.47 | Mets | http://pastebin.ca/949976 |
| 06:38.48 | jude- | you can trace through the crash using "up" and "down" |
| 06:39.42 | jude- | looks like gdb confirms what valgrind reported |
| 06:40.10 | Mets | ok i'm tracing through it |
| 06:40.54 | Mets | says it can't access memory address from new_allocator.h:62 |
| 06:41.11 | Mets | that's at the top |
| 06:41.13 | Mets | of the trace |
| 06:41.19 | jude- | what function? |
| 06:41.36 | Mets | new_allocator() throw() |
| 06:42.34 | Mets | #4 0x403c8265 in LastChatCommand::handle(int, bzApiString, bzApiString, bzAPIStringList*) (this=0x403cb530, playerID=0, _command=Cannot access memory at address 0xb08 |
| 06:42.34 | Mets | ) at new_allocator.h:62 |
| 06:42.34 | Mets | 62 new_allocator() throw() { } |
| 06:42.47 | jude- | yeah--LastChatCommand::handle |
| 06:42.58 | jude- | is that function implemented by the plugin? |
| 06:43.04 | jude- | or is it part of the bzfs proper? |
| 06:43.45 | jude- | from the looks of the stack output, I'd say it was linked into bzfs from the plugin (given that there was a failure in symbol resolving in ld-linux) |
| 06:43.55 | Mets | new_allocator? not sure; the segfault was caused by the /last command which is implemented by the plugin |
| 06:44.05 | pacman87 | i believe handle() is implemented by the plugin for the bz_CustomSlashCommandHandler |
| 06:44.14 | jude- | new_allocator.h is the header file in which LastChatCommand::handle is defined |
| 06:44.30 | Mets | it could be the plugin, but lots plugins cause segfaults for me, I just picked this one |
| 06:45.02 | jude- | pacman87: thanks |
| 06:45.22 | jude- | Mets: are you sure the plugin is compiled for the correct version of bzfs? |
| 06:45.43 | Mets | yes, i compiled all of the plugins the other day when I built bzfs |
| 06:45.55 | jude- | which bzfs? |
| 06:45.59 | jude- | 2.0.10, right? |
| 06:45.59 | Mets | 2.0.11 |
| 06:46.05 | jude- | 2.0.10 is the stable version |
| 06:46.11 | jude- | 2.0.11 is the development version |
| 06:46.17 | Mets | yes, same problem actually which is why I tried the devel version |
| 06:46.17 | jude- | i.e. not supposed to be stable |
| 06:46.24 | jude- | okay |
| 06:46.32 | Mets | right, I thought maybe it was the source so I tried the latest |
| 06:46.37 | pacman87 | i'm running 2.0.11 (on winXP, though) |
| 06:46.52 | Mets | err, maybe it was 2.0.10 source that was the problem, so I wanted to double check |
| 06:47.08 | jude- | are the plug-ins certified to work with 2.0.10? |
| 06:47.24 | pacman87 | i wouldn |
| 06:47.25 | Mets | but in general it's been the same; load a plugin and either it says "WARNING" and fails to load it, or it loads and immediately segfaults |
| 06:47.44 | Mets | I think so, I've tried plugins that ship with the code |
| 06:47.48 | pacman87 | wouldn't think they'd break plugins from one 2.0 to the next |
| 06:48.09 | jude- | what's the message after the WARNING? |
| 06:48.21 | Mets | oh, it just says it can't load the plugin |
| 06:48.33 | jude- | okay |
| 06:49.07 | jude- | does it give a reason why? |
| 06:49.27 | Mets | of course not :[ |
| 06:49.30 | Mets | :p |
| 06:49.32 | jude- | which plugin? |
| 06:49.39 | Mets | here's an example: |
| 06:49.48 | Mets | say I tell it to load oneOnOneRules |
| 06:50.07 | Mets | WARNING: unable to load the plugin; /afs/usr/mets/Private/bzflag-2-11/lib/oneOnOneRules |
| 06:50.52 | Mets | I've tried putting it in quotes, adding/removing .so, changing paths, etc. |
| 06:51.09 | Mets | but if I told it to load chathistory for example, it will load it, then segfault when you try to use it |
| 06:51.15 | Mets | like we just went through |
| 06:51.42 | jude- | the reason I ask these questions is because I think that the ABI of your bzfs and the plugins are somehow incompatible |
| 06:51.59 | jude- | I can understand the failure of a couple of plugins, but if most of them fail, then it's probably an ABI problem |
| 06:52.11 | Mets | ABI? |
| 06:52.15 | jude- | application binary interface |
| 06:52.23 | Mets | ah |
| 06:52.53 | jude- | i.e. in Linux, for example, you can't load kernel modules from a different kernel than the one you're running, because each kernel has a unique ABI |
| 06:53.14 | Mets | hmm |
| 06:53.18 | jude- | just an example |
| 06:53.42 | Mets | yeah i've tried plugins compiled by others on different versions of Linux and it's been the same result |
| 06:53.47 | jude- | that's an interesting path to your plugins...which distro of Linux are you using? |
| 06:53.54 | Mets | this is suse 9.3 |
| 06:54.05 | jude- | which gcc version? |
| 06:54.15 | Mets | 3.4.6 |
| 06:54.35 | jude- | that's pretty old... |
| 06:54.44 | jude- | my Debian system runs 4.2.3 |
| 06:54.59 | Mets | heh, I don't have root so I don't think I can change that |
| 06:55.08 | jude- | I see |
| 06:55.11 | Mets | oo |
| 06:55.16 | Mets | actually it says gcc is hashed |
| 06:55.21 | Mets | there might be a newer version |
| 06:56.10 | Mets | eh nevermind that's 3.3.5 |
| 06:56.50 | jude- | this is just a stab in the dark, but there's a big difference between gcc 3.x.x and 4.x.x...perhaps the binary format of bzfs is subtly different enough that when compiled with an older 3.x.x version of gcc, unforseen linking errors may be introduced |
| 06:57.03 | jude- | when trying to load plugins |
| 06:57.07 | jude- | I can't confirm this, however |
| 06:57.14 | jude- | unless someone in this chatroom has already tried it |
| 06:57.15 | Mets | should I try using an older version of bzfs? |
| 06:57.34 | jude- | I dunno--it could work, but then some of your plugins will be too new to work |
| 06:58.08 | Mets | yeah true then you have a problem the other way |
| 06:58.34 | Mets | it isn't a bad guess, I'm sure the problem lies somewhere with the setup since plenty of servers work and run plugins |
| 06:58.42 | jude- | any chance of getting a pre-built binary of bzfs? |
| 06:59.07 | Mets | well I have tried compiling it locally and it doesn't like to run it once I upload it |
| 06:59.18 | JeffMMain | is your libtool current? |
| 06:59.44 | Mets | libtool is 1.5.14 |
| 06:59.47 | Mets | so no |
| 07:00.14 | JeffMMain | that is what handles the plugin stuff |
| 07:01.32 | Mets | I think it could use an update of about everything |
| 07:01.50 | JeffMMain | I woudl do so then |
| 07:01.55 | jude- | he's not root |
| 07:02.03 | Mets | but the main suse repos don't carry a lot of newer versions |
| 07:02.05 | Mets | right |
| 07:02.14 | Mets | I would, and I wouldn't have installed suse :) |
| 07:02.20 | JeffMMain | then have the server owner update |
| 07:02.36 | Mets | I could ask |
| 07:04.01 | Mets | I think that's all I can do at this point |
| 07:04.29 | Mets | thanks a lot for the help jude and jeff |
| 07:05.50 | jude- | no prob |
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| 12:45.24 | Sadysta | hello |
| 12:45.34 | Sadysta | is there a wiki page discussing the libgame concept in more detail? |
| 12:45.47 | Sadysta | i mean... there is a dozen ways it could be done |
| 12:46.08 | Sadysta | do you have a preferred one or should I describe all of them and give my recommendation |
| 12:46.18 | Sadysta | or just describe the one I think is most fit? |
| 12:46.25 | Sadysta | i mean... in the GSoC application... |
| 13:06.10 | ruskie | Sadysta, recommend you stick around until someone get's up and tries to explain :) |
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| 13:14.24 | Sadysta | i have a pretty good idea what it's all about |
| 13:14.37 | Sadysta | i've looked through bzflag code more than once ;) |
| 13:15.09 | Sadysta | i'm really interested in making it the right way as it would make some heavy mods possible |
| 13:15.31 | Sadysta | that's the other thing i would like to code - a mod/plugin system |
| 13:16.23 | donny_baker | Sadysta: i would say that you will be told to determine the best method and why, with input from the developers |
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| 13:16.48 | donny_baker | the people you really probably need to get input from are JeffM and brlcad |
| 13:17.03 | donny_baker | mostly^^ |
| 13:17.13 | Sadysta | thanks, good to know :) |
| 13:17.37 | donny_baker | but they won't tell you how to do it, just hints and the way they would like to see it done |
| 13:18.28 | Sadysta | yeah, I kinda know that :) |
| 13:19.50 | Sadysta | i've added those two nicknames to my x-chat notification list so hopefully i will notice when they appear here |
| 13:20.46 | spldart | JeffM often shows between now and lunch.. Give it a couple hours :) |
| 13:22.08 | Sadysta | no problem, I'm more or less stuck in front of my PC from now till evening ;) |
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| 14:05.35 | brlcad | Sadysta: hello |
| 14:05.53 | brlcad | what exactly are you thinking of doing? libgame and client-side plugins are fairly different tasks |
| 14:06.53 | brlcad | libgame in bz is meant to be the generic view-independent logic required to run the game (client+server) |
| 14:07.29 | brlcad | basically a major refactoring effort to separate the game from the game display |
| 14:08.38 | brlcad | client-side plugins I've always seen as a front-end only thing that intentionally would NOT hook into libgame (we don't necessarily want them changing functionality, but sure they can change how things are presented and group meta-functionality) |
| 14:09.40 | brlcad | there is already fairly extensive support for server-side plugins (which does change functionality), and could conceivably hook in as libgame mods as well |
| 14:09.50 | Sadysta | hi |
| 14:10.00 | Sadysta | that's exactly what i was talking about |
| 14:10.18 | Sadysta | libgame makes mods easier both on client and server side |
| 14:10.45 | Sadysta | what i would like to do is.. for example |
| 14:10.48 | Sadysta | anti-camp mod |
| 14:11.15 | Sadysta | on the server side if a user stays within a specified volume of space for a certain amount of time |
| 14:11.24 | Sadysta | he gets kicked |
| 14:11.28 | Sadysta | or stripped of the flag |
| 14:11.36 | Sadysta | on the client side |
| 14:11.49 | Sadysta | there should be a countdown timer |
| 14:12.03 | Sadysta | and a warning - YOU ARE CAMPING, stop that |
| 14:12.09 | Sadysta | just an example |
| 14:13.02 | Sadysta | server messages don't do much good when it comes to notifying users about mod functionality |
| 14:13.20 | Sadysta | it has to be more pronounced, better integrated with the client |
| 14:14.10 | Sadysta | i mean... how cool would it be to have some extra HUD information available as a mod |
| 14:14.36 | Sadysta | lots of cheaters do this sort of thing by modifying the game source |
| 14:15.06 | Sadysta | but there are also fair players who would like to see this kind of functionality (like flag colouring, or shock wave range indicator) |
| 14:16.03 | Sadysta | but that's front-end like you've already said |
| 14:16.38 | Sadysta | however should somebody want to add a new weapon type |
| 14:16.51 | Sadysta | modifications in both client and server code are necessary |
| 14:17.14 | Sadysta | libgame could be callback-based |
| 14:17.37 | Sadysta | this way mods would simply register a new type of bullet and a handler routine for this kind of bullet |
| 14:18.00 | Sadysta | libgame would call the appropriate mod code when necessary |
| 14:19.16 | Sadysta | so the plugin system as I see it definietely requires separation of game logic and drawing |
| 14:20.57 | Sadysta | hmm I think that's about it, I'm better with coding than with speeches ;) |
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| 14:22.33 | Sadysta | oh, not to mention that libgame would make moving the simulation part from client to server easier and thus prevent cheating |
| 14:28.15 | brlcad | we can go into more detail later, but I do have to run (meeting) |
| 14:30.02 | Sadysta | ok, I hope we will, thank you |
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| 16:34.07 | KTL | http://my.bzflag.org/playerinfo.php?callsign=[A]sta <- how did he - with those max and min losses, get a low strength index of -1296 ? |
| 16:36.12 | donny_baker | by maximizing the effect of the algorythm? |
| 16:36.47 | KTL | i cant remember it but there was nothing eponential in the formula iirc |
| 16:36.54 | KTL | exponential |
| 16:39.13 | donny_baker | ($score / $wins) * abs($score / 2) |
| 16:41.20 | donny_baker | score:-45, wins:1 works out to -1012.5 |
| 16:41.28 | KTL | ow it works out indeed |
| 16:42.52 | donny_baker | wonder what it calculates if you have no kills? bet it just assumes at least one |
| 16:43.10 | donny_baker | kills = $wins ... I'm guessing |
| 16:43.50 | donny_baker | otherwise you end up with a div/0 error |
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| 16:49.47 | Alesis-Novik | mornin |
| 16:56.07 | donny_baker | hi Alesis-Novik welcome back :) |
| 16:56.49 | Alesis-Novik | how are things? :) |
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| 16:58.49 | Alesis-Novik | i was reading on creating real time AI. Found an approach using neural networks :) |
| 17:03.25 | donny_baker | cool |
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| 17:08.24 | brlcad | Alesis-Novik: real time AI would be fun, but our infrastructure needs to be in place before we can start talking techniques |
| 17:09.05 | Alesis-Novik | so what could I help with? :) |
| 17:09.20 | brlcad | using NNs, GAs, spanning graphs, A*, etc would all sit at a layer above what we currently have in place |
| 17:09.39 | brlcad | Alesis-Novik: are you familiar with what's currently in place with bzrobots? |
| 17:10.44 | Alesis-Novik | i read some on the wiki, but is there somewhere more i could look at? |
| 17:10.59 | brlcad | bzrobots has a basic text communication protocol on the 'backend', sitting on top of that on the 'frontend' is the robodoc-compatible layer (exposed via C++ and Python bindings currently) |
| 17:11.44 | JeffM | the secret ingredient to bzrobots.... is love.. |
| 17:11.52 | JeffM | and THAT is why it is not compatable with windows. |
| 17:13.02 | brlcad | the biggest work remaining is 1) making it work on windows (requires some refactoring and code hiding), 2) making sure all the robocode bindings work as expected, then 3) running the various existing available robocode bots through it (to weed out any remaining bugs) |
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| 17:13.37 | brlcad | Gilly went through and fixed many (maybe most) of #2, but there are undoubtedly a few others remaining |
| 17:14.06 | brlcad | leaving 1 and 3 as the hot-topics -- once those are done, we can push it out to users with some tutorials |
| 17:16.09 | JeffM | It would be nice to have a libary of bots too, I think many will simply want to use. not write |
| 17:16.12 | brlcad | Sadysta: with your idea -- you can do that already (today) as a server plugin and has little/nothing to do with libgame -- what you described to me really just sounds like providing a similar infrastructure in the client |
| 17:16.21 | brlcad | i still don't see that being in libgame myself though |
| 17:16.33 | brlcad | as information display is a client-specific task |
| 17:18.10 | *** join/#bzflag Ebert (n=EbErT@adsl-34-0-209.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 17:18.25 | brlcad | it might require libgame mods to support clean client-specific plugins, but those plugins shouldn't tie tightly to libgame (imho) and certainly shouldn't actually provide any gameplay-related functionality other than data display |
| 17:18.38 | JeffM | what is the idea? |
| 17:19.02 | brlcad | he was basically talking about doing client plugins |
| 17:19.09 | JeffM | I'd be against that |
| 17:19.10 | brlcad | but that tie in with server plugins |
| 17:19.39 | JeffM | I'd rather have a message API that can just tell the client to do the things you need it to do |
| 17:19.49 | JeffM | then you can ensure everyone has it |
| 17:19.57 | brlcad | I can see client plugins iff they are display only -- e.g. "put the radar over *here* and draw the tanks as little bunnies" |
| 17:20.12 | JeffM | you don't need plugins for that |
| 17:20.15 | JeffM | you can do that over the wire |
| 17:20.27 | JeffM | basicly implemnet that API part as net messages |
| 17:20.31 | brlcad | sure you could |
| 17:20.36 | JeffM | that overide default behavor |
| 17:20.40 | brlcad | if you wanted to enforce a look globally |
| 17:20.43 | JeffM | then we do not have to send executable code |
| 17:20.49 | brlcad | i'm talking about client-specific theming abilities |
| 17:20.57 | JeffM | if you don't then the server does it per player based on a prefrence that is sent at startup |
| 17:20.59 | JeffM | ahh |
| 17:21.14 | JeffM | for that you just need a flexable UI def format |
| 17:21.16 | JeffM | like XML |
| 17:21.20 | JeffM | not plugins |
| 17:21.37 | JeffM | EQ2 does it all with XML |
| 17:21.37 | brlcad | maybe they want a little round radar in the top-right, for example -- that would be a client "plugin" that someone could script/code up |
| 17:21.58 | JeffM | maybew |
| 17:22.14 | brlcad | you could do it with xml or plugins or some sort of protocol, they all get the same end result |
| 17:22.25 | JeffM | it'd have to be very generic, because if we change rendering systems we'd want it to go with it. |
| 17:22.36 | brlcad | the client is still just responding to a set of server notifications and presenting that data in different ways |
| 17:22.38 | JeffM | but yeah, if it's HUD stuff, that's not libGame |
| 17:22.40 | JeffM | that's client |
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| 17:23.07 | JeffM | I'd like the server to be able to do more, such as say "use this for a radar image for this guy" to open up new game modes. |
| 17:23.09 | brlcad | yeah, it's mostly be a matter of sorting out "types" of data being send from the server (which it does kinda know via the Msg type |
| 17:23.20 | JeffM | as well as being able to have the server display arbitrary data |
| 17:23.45 | JeffM | probalby should look into how quake did it, they did a LOT of mods only on the server, even those with UI elements. |
| 17:23.53 | JeffM | very flexable |
| 17:24.27 | brlcad | they were also closed when that came out so they could push code :) |
| 17:24.28 | JeffM | as for UI scripting, I'd look at the MMOs for insperation, as they have a lot in the way of user created UI content |
| 17:24.39 | JeffM | brlcad, they do nto push code |
| 17:24.49 | JeffM | the server has a rendering state for every client ;) |
| 17:24.54 | JeffM | they push out commands |
| 17:24.55 | brlcad | ah, yuck |
| 17:25.26 | JeffM | yeah I'd not go that far, but they did define a network based API to tell the client to draw things, like "Add this to the end of the score" |
| 17:25.45 | brlcad | yeah, that sounds really ugly to me |
| 17:26.07 | JeffM | I'm just saying look at it to see how they did it, and then work from there ;) |
| 17:26.10 | JeffM | not to use it |
| 17:26.25 | JeffM | WoW has a very powerful UI system |
| 17:26.32 | JeffM | to the point where users can add new UI features |
| 17:26.48 | JeffM | such as party trackers and the like |
| 17:26.55 | Erroneous | something like that would be more appropriate for bzflag, I think |
| 17:26.58 | JeffM | we'd of course have to limit what you can do, or it ets close to cheating |
| 17:27.08 | brlcad | the stuff trepan did for spring was more what I was thinking |
| 17:27.21 | JeffM | yeah the wow model should be looked at as an example I think |
| 17:27.22 | brlcad | the client already has the information, you just provide a simple API for writing your own widgets |
| 17:29.13 | brlcad | Wow also has a very powerful/big team of developers ;-) |
| 17:29.51 | donny_baker | as do we.. oh, wait ... at least powerful, not so big judging from shirt sizes |
| 17:30.01 | JeffM | brlcad, and that is exactly why we shold try to leaverage there work by looking at what they have done ;) |
| 17:30.34 | brlcad | donny_baker: heh |
| 17:30.50 | JeffM | yeah we are skewed to the skinny bastards ;) |
| 17:31.04 | brlcad | throws the curve |
| 17:31.14 | JeffM | no, the 14 year olds do |
| 17:31.18 | brlcad | heh |
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| 17:31.57 | JeffM | any more word from the people that don't like games? |
| 17:32.57 | brlcad | not yet |
| 17:33.53 | Erroneous | heh |
| 17:34.09 | Erroneous | and people wonder why open-source gaming is not taken seriously...\ |
| 17:34.11 | JeffM | I'm betting it's just cus they get a lot of kiddies |
| 17:34.23 | JeffM | "no we don't do quake mods" |
| 17:37.28 | Erroneous | maybe there's room for a game-specific umbrella org |
| 17:37.32 | JeffM | Constitution, so what bug did you fix? |
| 17:37.37 | JeffM | Erroneous, there could be |
| 17:38.13 | JeffM | the problem woudl be getting somone to create one |
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| 17:38.58 | JeffM | I can understand why they would be leery given that compared to a more "regular" app, game projects tend to have higher precentages of less then relyable people. |
| 17:39.09 | TheRedBaron | Erroneous: a game specific umbrella org? |
| 17:39.26 | JeffM | TheRedBaron, for stuff like NPO and copyright holdings |
| 17:39.43 | brlcad | Erroneous: they did refer to such an existing org, looking into it |
| 17:39.50 | Erroneous | interesting |
| 17:39.58 | brlcad | i'll start cc'ing then I get a solid contact going |
| 17:40.08 | TheRedBaron | NPO? |
| 17:40.09 | Erroneous | cool |
| 17:40.10 | JeffM | brlcad, is that "org" named "E.A." ? |
| 17:40.13 | Erroneous | hah |
| 17:40.14 | brlcad | heh |
| 17:40.15 | JeffM | TheRedBaron, no profit org. |
| 17:40.17 | TheRedBaron | pardon my ignorance |
| 17:40.19 | TheRedBaron | ah |
| 17:40.29 | TheRedBaron | a 103c |
| 17:40.33 | JeffM | getting us out of having to pay the man |
| 17:40.39 | TheRedBaron | er 5013 |
| 17:40.54 | JeffM | aka "the bzflag foundation for tanks that don't shoot so good" |
| 17:41.02 | TheRedBaron | where do I apply? |
| 17:41.04 | TheRedBaron | :P |
| 17:41.29 | JeffM | ooo, we could get NPO status as being a church! |
| 17:41.49 | brlcad | at least "not-for-profit" .. the orgs can under the right conditions actually make a profit and distribute |
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| 17:42.45 | brlcad | we certainly don't operate to make a profit regardless |
| 17:43.02 | a_temp_work | JeffM, there was only one day notice to pre-order the zipper hoodie? |
| 17:43.08 | JeffM | not a profit that we don't want to turn back into the game |
| 17:43.15 | JeffM | a_temp_work, nope, the order is made and in production |
| 17:43.30 | JeffM | a_temp_work, the pre-order was up for ages |
| 17:43.33 | JeffM | like a week |
| 17:43.44 | a_temp_work | I need to visit the forum more often :/ |
| 17:43.50 | JeffM | or here |
| 17:43.54 | a_temp_work | heh |
| 17:44.14 | a_temp_work | well I'll just get a couple shirts then |
| 17:44.24 | JeffM | I left the order open over the weekend too |
| 17:44.31 | JeffM | when I did the color post |
| 17:44.34 | JeffM | and closed it on the monday |
| 17:44.46 | JeffM | hoping that more people would check the site over a weekend |
| 17:45.25 | JeffM | a_temp_work, I think we'll be doing another printing soon |
| 17:45.29 | JeffM | so you can get one then :) |
| 17:45.33 | a_temp_work | excellent |
| 17:45.36 | Erroneous | we will most likely do another run, so you'll likely have another chance |
| 17:45.42 | JeffM | it'll be easier to do more pre-orders this time too |
| 17:45.45 | Erroneous | hm, JeffM done beat me to it |
| 17:45.53 | Sadysta | hey guys, please notice that the plugin systems was just an additional idea. i'm perfectly aware what libgame is all about and I would like to do that - get rid of all that if (bullet->type==something) ...; in the radar drawing code and so on and so forth. |
| 17:45.54 | JeffM | our payment funds were "odd" this time |
| 17:46.31 | Sadysta | it just happens that it would also let me implement plugins in the way I like but it's fine with me if the plugin system is not included in the official bzflag branch |
| 17:46.32 | a_temp_work | half in Marks - half in Yen? |
| 17:46.39 | JeffM | Sadysta, well all the drawing should just be converted to mobile objects with a drawable and predition class |
| 17:47.09 | JeffM | a_temp_work, heh no, I had to pay it out of pocket, and get money from brlcad, and some from the paypal preorders |
| 17:47.23 | a_temp_work | yucky |
| 17:47.28 | JeffM | the next time it'll all come out of paypal so all the preorder money can go tward the actual order. |
| 17:48.21 | Sadysta | predition class? |
| 17:48.38 | JeffM | every object has to know how to move inbetween updates |
| 17:48.43 | JeffM | it's not always a linear predtion |
| 17:49.03 | JeffM | flags fall, shots bounce, tanks drive, etc |
| 17:49.08 | Sadysta | oh, I see |
| 17:49.26 | JeffM | in the end the server should just say "hey, there is this thing tha draws like this, moves like this, and has this ID, track it" |
| 17:49.39 | JeffM | and the client just draws a big ol list of stuff |
| 17:49.42 | Sadysta | that's a reasonable separation - a FlagDrawable and FlagPrediction for example, right? |
| 17:50.13 | JeffM | yes but they should each be based off a base Draw and SIM base class |
| 17:50.20 | JeffM | so the drawing code dosn't care what it is |
| 17:50.29 | JeffM | it just ask each object to draw itself |
| 17:50.30 | Sadysta | understood |
| 17:50.32 | brlcad | different decorators |
| 17:50.35 | JeffM | yeah |
| 17:50.41 | JeffM | that way a headless client just dosn't have drawables |
| 17:50.45 | JeffM | yet still sims perfectly |
| 17:50.49 | JeffM | and we could mix and match |
| 17:51.12 | brlcad | with that, many of the bzrobot problems on windows would (more easily) go away too |
| 17:51.13 | JeffM | if one of the dawawables is "just use this mesh" then we can make anything move around on the client ;) |
| 17:51.19 | JeffM | yes they would |
| 17:51.21 | Sadysta | and eventually the sim vode could be moved to server side |
| 17:51.25 | Sadysta | *code |
| 17:51.27 | brlcad | still have to rip out the dlopen stuff |
| 17:51.29 | JeffM | well you do it on both |
| 17:51.33 | JeffM | but y es |
| 17:51.40 | JeffM | the real sim happens on the server |
| 17:51.50 | JeffM | the cleint just does a parallel sim to keep drawing smooth |
| 17:51.58 | JeffM | but always uses the state from the server on each update. |
| 17:52.32 | JeffM | that makes the client just a "dumb" terminal in the end |
| 17:52.36 | Sadysta | well, yes... but I mean the whole logic is done on client side as far as I know |
| 17:52.41 | brlcad | one of the original ideas with libgame is that if it's effectively a sim of the game state, the clients could still retain their own view of the game -- just the official game state would be the server's game state |
| 17:52.45 | Sadysta | I've seen flying guys shooting guided missles |
| 17:52.58 | JeffM | Sadysta, much is done on the client now yes |
| 17:52.59 | brlcad | then you could also decide whether to even turn off the client-side game-state entirely if you wanted (e.g. viewers) |
| 17:53.05 | JeffM | we are slowly moving stuff to the server. |
| 17:53.38 | JeffM | yeah libgame would basicly have all the sim/predtion classes and the main object lists, etc.. |
| 17:53.52 | JeffM | libgame would be able to run a game as long as it had the input, anywhere |
| 17:53.57 | Sadysta | exactly the way it should be - client side simulation for smoothness only |
| 17:54.02 | JeffM | yeah |
| 17:54.10 | Sadysta | however that would not be 100% cheat proof |
| 17:54.15 | JeffM | nothing is |
| 17:54.18 | JeffM | you can never be 100% |
| 17:54.24 | TheRedBaron | i've been out of the loop too long - why would bz need to pay the man? |
| 17:54.28 | JeffM | but you can mimimise what the cheaters can do |
| 17:54.29 | Sadysta | well there's one thing that brings us close to 100% |
| 17:54.35 | Sadysta | sening only a minimum of information |
| 17:54.37 | Sadysta | *sending |
| 17:54.40 | JeffM | to the point where it's minimal what they can do |
| 17:54.42 | JeffM | yes |
| 17:54.50 | JeffM | that is our goal, to send minimal info |
| 17:55.08 | Sadysta | brb |
| 17:55.11 | JeffM | well a balalnce of it |
| 17:55.13 | JeffM | there is a trade off |
| 17:55.41 | JeffM | TheRedBaron, cus it got money |
| 17:55.47 | JeffM | and is going to get more money |
| 17:56.00 | TheRedBaron | due to soc ? |
| 17:56.10 | JeffM | that was the first part yeah |
| 17:56.30 | JeffM | we are using some of that moeny to make shirts and sell them |
| 17:56.36 | JeffM | that will make us some more |
| 17:56.40 | JeffM | and SoC this year, etc.. |
| 17:57.15 | Erroneous | and we prefer to be able to roll all of that back into the project, rather than giving a fat slice to the man |
| 17:57.22 | JeffM | indeed |
| 17:57.27 | TheRedBaron | That i understand |
| 17:57.30 | JeffM | the man dosn't want me to make more shirts |
| 17:57.47 | TheRedBaron | But what does the project need $ wise? unless its booze for the devs? ;) |
| 17:57.58 | JeffM | techincaly we could pay devs |
| 17:58.01 | JeffM | or have contests |
| 17:58.03 | Erroneous | printing shirts, for instance |
| 17:58.06 | JeffM | or do feature bounties |
| 17:58.08 | TheRedBaron | cool |
| 17:58.10 | JeffM | and yeah printing shirts and stuff |
| 17:58.14 | JeffM | there are some things we can do |
| 17:58.26 | Erroneous | there are a lot of things that require a certain amount of capital, even if most of it comes back |
| 17:58.31 | a_temp_work | bake sale |
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| 18:00.11 | TheRedBaron | those are awesome things |
| 18:00.12 | brlcad | sees it mostly going to shirts and paying to send people to conferences |
| 18:00.24 | brlcad | er, shirts and contests |
| 18:00.35 | brlcad | s/conferences/events/ |
| 18:01.07 | brlcad | like we could send TheRedBaron up to NY for a gaming presentation if we got accepted, etc |
| 18:02.02 | TheRedBaron | woot |
| 18:02.47 | brlcad | or out to LA for our semi-regular get-togethers, etc |
| 18:02.58 | brlcad | or just to buy the devs booze works too |
| 18:04.42 | Ebert | dips a bzshirt in cold beer |
| 18:06.53 | TheRedBaron | brlcad: so such orgs exists and 'we' (ie whoever) wouldn't have to create on ourselves |
| 18:08.19 | brlcad | yes |
| 18:09.53 | JeffM | that would be the goal |
| 18:10.07 | JeffM | doing it yourself is apperantly "not fun" |
| 18:10.48 | TheRedBaron | but are there benefits for doing it yourself? |
| 18:11.09 | JeffM | techincaly you have slightly more controll |
| 18:11.09 | TheRedBaron | or do they not outweigh the pitaness ? |
| 18:11.20 | JeffM | and you don't have to trust anyone else |
| 18:12.31 | JeffM | there is probably also a shorter turn around time on getting stuff changed, cus you don't have that extra layer |
| 18:14.38 | Erroneous | curses bad installers |
| 18:14.57 | Erroneous | KeyCreator decided to helpfully remove my Rainbow drivers when I uninstalled it... |
| 18:15.04 | JeffM | hah |
| 18:15.12 | JeffM | "no I need that to live!" |
| 18:17.20 | Erroneous | restarts |
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| 18:37.58 | Sadysta | ok, Im back |
| 18:39.03 | Sadysta | so... I'm going to prepare an GSoC application as detailed as I manage to and send it to you when the registration period starts |
| 18:39.44 | Sadysta | how many applicants do you have already? |
| 18:40.05 | Erroneous | technically none, the application period has not started |
| 18:41.40 | Sadysta | and theoretically? ;) |
| 18:42.00 | Erroneous | a number of people have expressed interest |
| 18:42.16 | Sadysta | that's good |
| 18:42.28 | Sadysta | bzf is my favourite game as of now |
| 18:43.02 | Sadysta | absolutely addictive and it's so lovely watching newbies being like totally clumsy in their tanks :] |
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| 18:48.18 | spldart | thilthy newbie worm babies /zim |
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| 19:24.54 | Winny | Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down |
| 19:25.12 | JeffM | sadysta, last year we had over 40 applicants |
| 19:26.31 | sadysta | I suppose the more details I write in the application the better, right? |
| 19:27.00 | JeffM | yes |
| 19:27.19 | sadysta | however writing a novel is not exactly what we all want to do ;) |
| 19:27.25 | JeffM | the thing I find I look for, are "does the applicant know what they want to do." and "can they do what they want to do" |
| 19:27.29 | sadysta | would some code also do the job? |
| 19:27.41 | JeffM | I'd say no code in the app |
| 19:27.47 | sadysta | okay |
| 19:28.47 | JeffM | if you can't describe the idea to a layperson then it may not be a good idea is my moto |
| 19:29.07 | JeffM | the propsal should mostly detail the major sections of work |
| 19:29.21 | JeffM | that tells us that you do know what the impact and depth of the project is |
| 19:29.40 | JeffM | as well as that you have gone thru our code |
| 19:29.48 | sadysta | understood |
| 19:30.11 | JeffM | it's also good to give a detailed description of your experience in coding |
| 19:30.27 | sadysta | I was about to ask |
| 19:30.39 | JeffM | you can also do changes and work on the project now, beffore SoC, fix some bugs etc.. to see how the dev system works |
| 19:30.40 | sadysta | I dont have a portfolio in english |
| 19:30.47 | JeffM | what language is it in ? |
| 19:30.59 | sadysta | Polish, I'm afraid ;| |
| 19:31.06 | JeffM | that makes it harder for us |
| 19:31.18 | sadysta | a lot I guess |
| 19:31.23 | Erroneous | you can give brief descriptions of what you did in english |
| 19:31.28 | JeffM | yeah |
| 19:31.34 | JeffM | the more the better, but we can get a trasnlator |
| 19:31.38 | brlcad | sadysta: feel free to share your proposal before the registration starts |
| 19:31.43 | JeffM | indeed |
| 19:31.48 | brlcad | then we can work on commenting/cleaning it up early |
| 19:31.58 | sadysta | that would be nice |
| 19:32.00 | JeffM | eveyrone we accepted last year had good comunciation with us before the project. |
| 19:32.41 | sadysta | I've added this channel to my permanent join-list so I'll be here daily giving you feedback on my progress with the application |
| 19:32.44 | Erroneous | there is time for that during the application period also, so don't feel rushed |
| 19:32.53 | JeffM | indeed |
| 19:32.56 | Erroneous | start early, but take your time |
| 19:32.59 | brlcad | sadysta: another thing that will probably be required is for all applicants to make a patch of some sort |
| 19:33.06 | brlcad | doesn't have to be anything big, but has to be "something" |
| 19:33.16 | JeffM | just to show that you know how our system works |
| 19:33.36 | brlcad | even fixing a typo or a bug, something to show you've actually compiled, can compile, can make a patch, can post a tracker item, etc |
| 19:33.41 | sadysta | good idea, indeed :) |
| 19:33.42 | Erroneous | just proves you know how to build bzflag and can affect the code positively |
| 19:33.43 | brlcad | give us a feel for interacting with you too |
| 19:33.59 | Erroneous | and hopefully proves that you've read DEVINFO (you have, right? :) ) |
| 19:33.59 | JeffM | I still say we should get am all together in a game in trunk ;) |
| 19:34.08 | Erroneous | JeffM: I support that idea :) |
| 19:34.23 | Erroneous | timzoneage would be a challenge |
| 19:34.24 | brlcad | you can show off if you like with the patch, but it should be something we can apply (e.g. fixing a bug or typo .. just not whitespace) |
| 19:34.27 | sadysta | hehe, Im quite proficient with making things compile and run ;) |
| 19:34.38 | sadysta | I've read it I guess |
| 19:34.38 | JeffM | Erroneous, perhaps, but it would show how they could cope with peple in various zones |
| 19:34.57 | brlcad | yeah, but if we schedule it, shouldn't be a problem |
| 19:35.00 | JeffM | sadysta, well that will be a big part of any project so you may want to start now |
| 19:35.06 | brlcad | they can plan for it |
| 19:35.12 | JeffM | yeah |
| 19:35.22 | JeffM | and we can see how well they cope with planed stuff ;) |
| 19:35.23 | sadysta | actually I've compiled bzflag twice, on Linux so not a big deal |
| 19:35.28 | brlcad | we can hold multiple sessions too if needed |
| 19:35.32 | Erroneous | brlcad: still, it's hard to find a time when people from india and poland and california can all actually be awake :) |
| 19:35.51 | Erroneous | yeah, that can be done |
| 19:35.53 | JeffM | Erroneous, you go to sleep at like midnight |
| 19:35.53 | sadysta | I've prepared a version to play with my colleagues on LAN which had the modified HUD thing |
| 19:36.10 | sadysta | however it's beyond the scope of libgame |
| 19:36.31 | JeffM | sadysta, just hit the bug list, or tracker on SF and make some change ;) |
| 19:36.32 | brlcad | 2am EST / 11pm PST would probably work well |
| 19:36.34 | JeffM | and make a patch |
| 19:36.45 | brlcad | that gets most of europe/india early in the day |
| 19:36.48 | Erroneous | as far as the patch, it does NOT need to be related to the code you're applying for |
| 19:36.50 | sadysta | will do |
| 19:37.00 | Erroneous | can be, but doesn't need to be |
| 19:37.08 | JeffM | I'd actualy prefer it to not be ;) |
| 19:37.22 | JeffM | shows you can work in more then one place in the code if need be |
| 19:37.32 | sadysta | ack |
| 19:37.51 | brlcad | sadysta: yeah, not an actual bonefide feature change unless you want to go through the whole review/acceptance/reject process with the patch too |
| 19:38.08 | brlcad | modified HUD would not be something likely applied right away |
| 19:38.24 | brlcad | unless you fixed a typo ;) |
| 19:38.34 | JeffM | and I make those ALL the time |
| 19:38.35 | Erroneous | bugfixes are good |
| 19:38.35 | JeffM | ;) |
| 19:38.41 | JeffM | I make those too |
| 19:38.42 | sadysta | hehe |
| 19:38.43 | Erroneous | typo fixes are ok |
| 19:38.57 | brlcad | hard bug fixes are awesome |
| 19:38.59 | Erroneous | enhancements would be more of a challenge |
| 19:39.11 | Erroneous | yeah, fixing bugs is ideal |
| 19:39.18 | Erroneous | we have PLENTY to go around ;) |
| 19:39.41 | sadysta | that's the exact thing I was planning to do when you mentioned a patch ;) |
| 19:40.43 | *** join/#bzflag ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 19:40.43 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/#bzflag || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || 2.0.10 is the latest public release || BZFlag is in GSoC 2008 , join #gsoc if you're interested in participating (students) mentor blog -> http://tanks4code.blogspot.com/ |
| 19:40.43 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 19:43.16 | JeffM | TimRiker, taking the grand bot tour? |
| 19:44.35 | Winny | gives TimRiker a botsnack |
| 19:45.33 | brlcad | ahh, that's the a*hole that was spamming leslie and others at google |
| 19:45.47 | JeffM | who? |
| 19:45.48 | brlcad | upset that their project wasn't accepted and that bz was as a "WAR" game |
| 19:46.30 | brlcad | he apparently added an "idea" |
| 19:46.31 | brlcad | troll |
| 19:46.39 | JeffM | troll here? |
| 19:46.41 | JeffM | who? |
| 19:46.48 | brlcad | wiki |
| 19:46.48 | JeffM | or on the wiki? |
| 19:46.50 | JeffM | ahh |
| 19:46.59 | TimRiker | :) |
| 19:47.21 | JeffM | wonders if TimRiker is going to clean him out of small shirts |
| 19:47.34 | TimRiker | nah |
| 19:47.49 | Winny | brlcad: what did he add? |
| 19:48.11 | JeffM | Winny, you can check the history |
| 19:48.24 | Winny | 2008 ideas? |
| 19:48.46 | Erroneous | brlcad: there were several. I just dropped them onto Ideas, they definitely didn't belong on the SoC page |
| 19:48.57 | Erroneous | feel free to purge or clean as necessary |
| 19:49.35 | JeffM | he put them on the SOC page first? |
| 19:49.46 | *** join/#bzflag Upsetter (n=Ups@i577B5894.versanet.de) |
| 19:49.56 | Erroneous | yeah |
| 19:50.12 | Erroneous | several people, not just several ideas |
| 19:50.24 | JeffM | ugg |
| 19:50.27 | Erroneous | I think some people took <INSERT YOUR IDEA HERE> a little bit too literally |
| 19:50.58 | JeffM | fixed |
| 19:51.22 | JeffM | changed it to, Suggest your own idea |
| 19:51.54 | brlcad | I protected the page |
| 19:52.08 | brlcad | those users weren't registered |
| 19:53.14 | JeffM | heh, add global warming to bzflag... yeah.... |
| 19:53.27 | JeffM | what was his project that didn't get accepted? |
| 19:53.52 | brlcad | I didn't ask |
| 19:54.36 | brlcad | she panic'd early one morning as he'd apparently spammed one of their management-visible lists, but it apparently got filtered/moderated and others told her how absolutely absurd he was |
| 19:54.45 | brlcad | just whining that he didn't get picked |
| 19:55.13 | Erroneous | 'cause that's a sure way to get picked next year, uh-huh |
| 19:55.14 | JeffM | not the best way to make it so you get picked next year |
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| 21:32.22 | JeffM | donny_baker, did you get the wiki button made? |
| 21:32.45 | JeffM | hey Saturos_ how's it going? |
| 21:36.48 | Winny | Totally OT but very cool: http://gas2.org/2008/03/19/how-biodiesel-fuel-cells-could-power-the-future-and-your-car/ |
| 21:38.59 | JeffM | did anyone ever test thief in trunk? |
| 21:40.25 | *** join/#bzflag Alesis-Novik (n=alesis@78-60-80-229.ip.zebra.lt) |
| 21:49.40 | brlcad | wow, that's nfg .. the org that sfc referred us to is not only non-existent but also not in line with us philosophically either, and seem to be rather inexperienced in what they're trying to undertake |
| 21:49.56 | JeffM | :( |
| 21:49.59 | JeffM | those bastards |
| 21:50.09 | JeffM | who did they send you too? |
| 21:50.15 | brlcad | there's still two other leads to follow up on |
| 21:51.10 | brlcad | at least one of the pysoy engine guys (probably more than one) are "in the process" of setting up an umbrella/incubator org |
| 21:51.52 | marzipan_ | is there a command ingame that prevents you from beeing idle kicked ? |
| 21:51.54 | brlcad | they've actually picked a great name, but don't have really any of the paperwork done yet from what I could gather |
| 21:52.28 | brlcad | almost a vaporware org at this point, might as well say I'll get logging implemented before they file their charter |
| 21:52.52 | JeffM | marzipan_, you can pause |
| 21:52.57 | brlcad | marzipan_: yeah, it's hooked to the mouse |
| 21:52.59 | JeffM | brlcad, what name? |
| 21:53.04 | brlcad | you keep moving it, and you don't get idle kicked ;) |
| 21:53.09 | brlcad | the "Copyleft Games Group" |
| 21:53.14 | JeffM | not bad |
| 21:53.18 | brlcad | yeah, I like it |
| 21:53.37 | brlcad | but they're going the GNU-route of wanting to impose philosophy on their projects |
| 21:53.45 | brlcad | instead of staying out of their business like sfc |
| 21:53.46 | JeffM | such as? |
| 21:54.10 | brlcad | well they were going to be GPL-only before I'd talked to him |
| 21:54.19 | JeffM | ouch |
| 21:54.24 | brlcad | no other OSI or FSF license |
| 21:54.29 | JeffM | that's stupid |
| 21:54.35 | brlcad | it is |
| 21:54.52 | brlcad | they're just trying to push an agenda more than actually doing anything that would benefit us I think |
| 21:54.54 | JeffM | kinda taking away the "freedom of choice" that they seem to want to say |
| 21:55.00 | Erroneous | m, that's too bad |
| 21:55.00 | brlcad | tells me their focus is amiss |
| 21:55.05 | JeffM | yeah |
| 21:55.09 | *** join/#bzflag Ride- (n=Ride-@24-197-250-9.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com) |
| 21:56.25 | brlcad | they would have potentially been okay with an LGPL game, but hadn't considered it yet |
| 21:56.52 | JeffM | probably not good to get in bed with those people |
| 21:56.52 | brlcad | "guess we'd probobally not look at a LGPL engine but a game is another story, so long as it didn't depend on non-free dependencies" |
| 21:56.58 | JeffM | the ori are not hallowed |
| 21:57.01 | brlcad | yeah, just smells that they've not thought things through yet |
| 21:57.05 | brlcad | ooh, that reminds me |
| 21:57.13 | brlcad | to see if they've restocked stargate |
| 21:57.15 | Erroneous | heh |
| 21:57.27 | JeffM | heh |
| 21:58.31 | brlcad | at their stage, going with them wouldn't really save us much work -- probably the opposite as we'd have to make sure our interests made it into the charter and bylaws .. at which point we're not saving much of any of the effort I was hoping to avoid |
| 21:58.45 | JeffM | yeah |
| 21:58.52 | brlcad | still, two more leads to follow-up on with SFC .. they said they would reconsider if we weren't a fit |
| 21:59.06 | brlcad | they're just trying to encourage more orgs to establish |
| 21:59.13 | brlcad | as they are utterly swamped |
| 21:59.19 | Erroneous | it's also a bad sign when there are no hits on google for the org's name |
| 21:59.36 | brlcad | yeah, they have nothing done, hence the vapororg at this point |
| 21:59.44 | brlcad | they've talked |
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| 22:13.33 | sadysta | gtg, thanks for all the info, see you soon |
| 22:16.38 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16750 10/trunk/bzflag/ (BUGS src/bzfs/WorldWeapons.cxx): support world weapon triggers for on death and on spawn |
| 22:18.03 | brlcad | keeps reading that as sadist |
| 22:19.31 | jftsang | with bz_eShotEndedEvent, could I get the location of the shot end and fire WWs there? |
| 22:19.48 | JeffM | no |
| 22:19.54 | JeffM | not till the server tracks the shots |
| 22:21.17 | JeffM | the end message just has the shot and the reason |
| 22:21.18 | jftsang | is confused |
| 22:21.25 | jftsang | so BZFS knows when shots are fired and end |
| 22:21.30 | jftsang | but don't get their positions? |
| 22:21.41 | JeffM | yeah basicly |
| 22:21.45 | JeffM | we don't track them |
| 22:24.18 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Erroneous] by ChanServ |
| 22:24.32 | *** join/#bzflag Racer (n=180a0c16@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 22:25.13 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16751 10/trunk/bzflag/BUGS: screw the riva 128... |
| 22:25.27 | Winny | hehe |
| 22:25.32 | Erroneous | hah |
| 22:25.50 | Winny | Can you add ""screw ATI", too? ;) |
| 22:25.54 | JeffM | no |
| 22:25.56 | Think_Differentl | ATI ftl :P |
| 22:26.12 | JeffM | ATI rage 128.. sure |
| 22:26.12 | *** join/#bzflag Saturos (n=Saturos@p57A0F924.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:26.37 | Think_Differentl | heh, what about the Rage XL? |
| 22:27.20 | Erroneous | the XL is older than the 128 |
| 22:27.20 | JeffM | I would not be realy want to fix any bug that is specific rage or riva |
| 22:27.38 | JeffM | GPU or nothin |
| 22:29.09 | jftsang | is there a problem with this? -loadplugin C:\BZFS\bzfscron.dll,C:\BZFS\crontab.txt |
| 22:29.26 | JeffM | are those valid paths? |
| 22:29.37 | jftsang | perfectly valid |
| 22:29.50 | JeffM | and the error you get? |
| 22:30.04 | JeffM | wait |
| 22:30.16 | JeffM | isn't cron nix specific |
| 22:30.19 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=vircuser@c-98-197-19-35.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 22:30.20 | Erroneous | no |
| 22:30.30 | Erroneous | shouldn't be, anyway |
| 22:31.15 | jftsang | *chord.wav* bzfs.exe - Entry Point Not Found : The procedure entry points ?c_str@bzApiString@@QAEPBDXZ could not be located in the dynamic link library bzfs.exe. |
| 22:31.32 | JeffM | your plugin does not match your bzfs |
| 22:31.46 | jftsang | Win32 binary plugin. Requires 2.0.3b16 or newer. |
| 22:31.50 | jftsang | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=5018 |
| 22:31.57 | JeffM | you probably have a branch plugin with a trunk app, or vice versa |
| 22:32.02 | jftsang | I'm running bzfs 2.0.11 |
| 22:32.07 | JeffM | build the plugin |
| 22:32.10 | spldart | Someone mention testing thief in trunk? May I offer assistance? |
| 22:32.14 | JeffM | it was not built for your bzfs |
| 22:32.28 | JeffM | spldart, yeah go test it ;) |
| 22:32.45 | spldart | Need a helper someone to steal from :squint: |
| 22:32.59 | JeffM | jftsang, the API has changed somewhat from that old beta |
| 22:33.21 | JeffM | compile it |
| 22:33.31 | JeffM | IIRC it's in source |
| 22:33.43 | jftsang | builds bzfscron |
| 22:33.52 | Erroneous | jftsang: not to mention you need a newer version of it anyway, 0.1 had a ton of bugs |
| 22:33.58 | Erroneous | search that topic for "bzfscron 0.3.2 windows plugin" |
| 22:34.13 | Erroneous | which is probably built against 2.0.6 |
| 22:35.21 | Erroneous | and if you want to build it, build that version not the old one |
| 22:35.51 | Erroneous | and note that it's completely unsupported. the version in trunk (which requires 3.0) is the only one I care to fix. |
| 22:37.06 | Erroneous | and it's difficult to use and probably requires patches to build against current bzfs. please read the entire thread. |
| 22:38.55 | jftsang | it's complaining about not having found bz_setPlayerAdmin |
| 22:39.41 | jftsang | was that deprecated or something? I see that there is bz_grantPerm |
| 22:39.44 | Erroneous | quotes himself |
| 22:39.46 | Erroneous | please read the entire thread. |
| 22:41.57 | JeffM | is this valid for a nix path? std::string globalPluginDir = "$(prefix)/lib/bzflag/"; |
| 22:42.09 | JeffM | or will the $(prefix) part be taken literaly? |
| 22:42.28 | Erroneous | it will be, unless you pass it to a shell interpreter |
| 22:42.30 | spldart | hrm... can't find someone to try it on but it does 'LOOK' like TH is working |
| 22:42.38 | Erroneous | you need to getenv and append it yourself |
| 22:42.51 | JeffM | what would the code for that be? |
| 22:42.51 | jftsang | spldart, I'll volunteer |
| 22:43.10 | spldart | When you ready we can use norang server |
| 22:43.18 | jftsang | ok |
| 22:43.18 | spldart | the 'crash me' one |
| 22:43.21 | jftsang | I'm going on now |
| 22:43.23 | spldart | k |
| 22:43.24 | Erroneous | JeffM: depends what you're doing with it |
| 22:43.35 | JeffM | it's used to check for plugins |
| 22:43.37 | JeffM | to see if they exist |
| 22:43.42 | JeffM | it's the last path we check |
| 22:43.43 | Erroneous | you need to be reading an environment variable that has been set |
| 22:44.03 | Erroneous | then see the documentation for getenv |
| 22:44.30 | JeffM | k |
| 22:45.00 | Erroneous | alternatively you can set it at compile time |
| 22:45.14 | Erroneous | since make knows where it will be putting stuff |
| 22:45.34 | JeffM | hmmm I don't think I can do that part |
| 22:46.14 | spldart | Well.. it worked till we got kicked with communication error |
| 22:46.15 | spldart | hehe |
| 22:46.25 | JeffM | spldart, the flag worked? |
| 22:46.25 | Erroneous | mmm, comm errors are good :) |
| 22:48.27 | JeffM | Erroneous, you, or any other nixie want to fix this one? https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1492603&group_id=3248&atid=103248 |
| 22:49.51 | Erroneous | would rather not |
| 22:50.29 | JeffM | as in, you just don't want to muck with make? or take out the dir as one place where they are searched for on a loadplugin ? |
| 22:52.36 | JeffM | next fun question, should the API be able to iterate the bans? |
| 22:53.05 | spldart | TH took other tank flag |
| 22:53.19 | JeffM | cool, thanks |
| 22:53.36 | TheRedBaron | what about in the air? |
| 22:53.43 | spldart | I'm build 16748 |
| 22:53.50 | jftsang | spldart, is the tank supposed to have green and blue ribbon-like stripes all over it? |
| 22:53.51 | JeffM | the bug was on the server |
| 22:53.52 | spldart | It was the norang server |
| 22:53.59 | jftsang | that was when you had SH |
| 22:53.59 | spldart | ? |
| 22:54.23 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16752 10/trunk/bzflag/BUGS: Thief bug is fixed |
| 22:54.34 | ts | Fixed? |
| 22:54.42 | spldart | I thought I got hit with a regular shot |
| 22:54.45 | JeffM | did I stutter? |
| 22:54.46 | ts | I saw no thief while holding SH |
| 22:54.47 | spldart | and didn't blow up |
| 22:55.04 | spldart | What exactly is this bug? |
| 22:55.08 | ts | Without SH I saw thief and it worked |
| 22:55.11 | JeffM | the flag was not transfered |
| 22:55.26 | spldart | I stole a flag from JT? |
| 22:55.26 | JeffM | the to and from were backwards |
| 22:55.34 | ts | Where "working" is sadly kind of a joke |
| 22:55.36 | JeffM | was there flag stealing? |
| 22:55.47 | JeffM | from the right person? |
| 22:55.54 | ts | We could steal flags from owners that did not had SH |
| 22:56.05 | JeffM | ok, good |
| 22:56.06 | ts | yes |
| 22:56.13 | JeffM | SH prevents the hit |
| 22:56.22 | ts | but with SH we looked like cheaters |
| 22:56.29 | *** join/#bzflag Paul_PL (n=pawelbl6@chello087206115169.chello.pl) |
| 22:56.30 | JeffM | that's how the flag works IIRC |
| 22:56.37 | JeffM | shield prevents the hit |
| 22:56.45 | JeffM | so you were never stolen |
| 22:56.56 | JeffM | did shield not drop after the hit? |
| 22:57.18 | ts | JeffM: By the way why is the code in bzfsPlayerStateVerify.cxx dublicated in another source file? |
| 22:57.26 | spldart | I thought it did... I had given myself a SH and asked someone to shoot me.. they got me with thief... Was that you ts? |
| 22:57.30 | ts | Shield didn't saw the thief beam |
| 22:57.43 | JeffM | spldart, yeah that's the prolblem don't use SH ;) |
| 22:57.43 | ts | I think yes |
| 22:57.46 | spldart | I heard the flag click sound when I was shot |
| 22:57.53 | ts | Powerful shield :D |
| 22:57.54 | JeffM | use a real flag |
| 22:57.58 | spldart | I stole a different flag no problem though |
| 22:58.03 | spldart | From JT |
| 22:58.06 | JeffM | well the shield will drop on the first hit |
| 22:58.14 | JeffM | after that, TH is nonlethal |
| 22:58.19 | JeffM | cus you have no flag |
| 22:58.33 | JeffM | so yeah, TH vs. SH is a stupid matchup |
| 22:58.53 | spldart | Is there a very specific thing you would like to go back and test ts? |
| 22:58.54 | ts | It's an exception |
| 22:59.04 | spldart | So we are sure |
| 22:59.10 | JeffM | ts, no it works exactly like it should, SH just trumps TH ;) |
| 22:59.13 | ts | spldart: Well, hard to say..there are so much bugs |
| 22:59.18 | spldart | LMAO |
| 22:59.29 | JeffM | well the point is to find and fix them |
| 22:59.32 | spldart | I'm just a lowly tester of code and bugs :) |
| 22:59.35 | JeffM | not just moan about it |
| 22:59.45 | JeffM | ts, now what code duped where? |
| 22:59.48 | JeffM | are they both called? |
| 23:00.15 | ts | JeffM: There are so many bugs..I can not identify which ones are "the same" |
| 23:00.24 | JeffM | I get that |
| 23:00.28 | ts | and my time is limited |
| 23:00.34 | JeffM | so sorry |
| 23:00.49 | JeffM | all I wanted to know was if the transfer worked, cus it used to not |
| 23:00.49 | ts | JeffM: The pause stuff is 2 times for example |
| 23:00.52 | JeffM | and it does |
| 23:00.56 | JeffM | ts, in the same file? |
| 23:01.00 | ts | No |
| 23:01.04 | ts | Let me search |
| 23:02.48 | spldart | is gonna hafta get a second rig setup with trunk build for future easy testing |
| 23:03.03 | JeffM | it makes it handy |
| 23:03.08 | JeffM | laptop + desktop ;) |
| 23:03.21 | JeffM | the only part that sucks is when I have to debug 2 clients and a server at the same time |
| 23:03.45 | Erroneous | JeffM: as in, I do not want to muck with out build system, especially with plugin stuff |
| 23:03.51 | JeffM | Erroneous, ok |
| 23:03.56 | JeffM | Ill leave it |
| 23:03.59 | *** join/#bzflag bier_ (n=bier@p54A56617.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:04.01 | ts | JeffM: Hrm, I don't find it again :/ |
| 23:04.03 | JeffM | I was goin thru the bug lists on sf |
| 23:04.15 | JeffM | ts, ok, well if you do, I'll be glad to look at it. |
| 23:05.36 | ts | JeffM: I got one last question before going to sleep. |
| 23:05.40 | JeffM | ok |
| 23:05.52 | ts | JeffM: When I change windowing mode it'll freeze in 2.99 |
| 23:06.02 | JeffM | in SDL? |
| 23:06.06 | ts | I don't come back to desktop.. |
| 23:06.11 | ts | No idea where |
| 23:06.22 | JeffM | but you are using an SDL build right? |
| 23:06.26 | ts | gdb doesn't help, either.. |
| 23:06.47 | ts | JeffM: Well, Mac OS X builds always using SDL |
| 23:06.48 | JeffM | yeah fullscreen debuging is hard, you need two displays, or remote debug |
| 23:06.52 | JeffM | ok, OSX |
| 23:07.02 | JeffM | same verison of SDL that you are using in branch? |
| 23:07.09 | ts | Yep |
| 23:07.18 | JeffM | that'd be one for the burlycad |
| 23:07.19 | ts | That was the first thing I've checked |
| 23:08.20 | JeffM | now you are going to windowed mode? or iconify? |
| 23:08.42 | ts | Iconify doesn't work in fullscreen mode. |
| 23:08.46 | JeffM | ok |
| 23:08.58 | JeffM | just trying to make sure we have the same language going on here :) |
| 23:09.02 | ts | Only in window mode |
| 23:09.29 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16753 10/trunk/bzflag/BUGS: reported lockup in OSX on swap from fullscreen to windowed mode (from TS) |
| 23:09.42 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16754 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsPlayerStateVerify.cxx: whitespace |
| 23:09.49 | ts | Yeah, I admit I'm often not fully understanding what people say in english |
| 23:10.06 | JeffM | thats why I try to ask more then once to be sure I get the same answer ;) |
| 23:10.18 | ts | The terms often sound soo strange |
| 23:10.21 | JeffM | then that means it's probably correct in interpertation |
| 23:10.42 | JeffM | plays the compiling music |
| 23:10.57 | ts | goes off to sleep |
| 23:11.43 | JeffM | now, back to the question, should the API be able to iterate bans? |
| 23:18.14 | *** join/#bzflag TheRedBaro1 (n=Kalen@75.144.224.155) |
| 23:21.35 | blast007 | fun, bzadmin on 2.0.x locks up (inf. loop) when you try to use the F2 > Show Players when you're in rabbit chase mode, and there is no players. |
| 23:22.00 | spldart | woah... |
| 23:22.08 | spldart | that's specifica |
| 23:22.14 | spldart | n c |
| 23:23.08 | blast007 | I can run it through gdb, but I'm not sure how to break operation and see where it locks. Guess it's time to find a manual for GDB. ;) |
| 23:23.47 | spldart | could uses some tutoring on GDB as well |
| 23:28.05 | blast007 | I could probably just run bzadmin on Windows and do this with VC... |
| 23:28.05 | spldart | Ok.. don't have a laptop since my toughbook died so powering the PC I hack wireless netw... I mean my extra pc and I'll build another trunk on it ;-) |
| 23:28.35 | spldart | and that reminds me... |
| 23:30.33 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban) |
| 23:30.37 | spldart | must.. get.. curses.. on.. windoze |
| 23:32.17 | *** join/#bzflag short_circuit (n=vircuser@c-98-197-19-35.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 23:33.07 | short_circuit | really tripped ona network cable |
| 23:33.13 | short_circuit | I'm so ashamed |
| 23:34.34 | *** join/#bzflag Think_Differentl (n=shedelj@unaffiliated/thinkdifferentl/x-838543) |
| 23:40.52 | *** join/#bzflag Wyk3d (n=Wyk3d@lns-bzn-47f-81-56-254-111.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 23:41.05 | blast007 | spldart: curses is pretty easy to get going. I could probably even give you my built copy of it. I'm not 100% sure it would work, since I use VC7.1 |
| 23:42.48 | spldart | Can you point me to a download of the source that I can easily build in vc8? |
| 23:52.22 | blast007 | spldart: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/pdcurses/pdcurs33.zip?modtime=1184180007&big_mirror=0 |
| 23:52.57 | blast007 | I can't recall, but you might have to build that from the command prompt. |
| 23:53.20 | spldart | thank you |
| 23:53.59 | spldart | still getting second machine setup... must have dual trunk goodness!!! |
| 23:54.02 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
| 23:54.26 | JeffM | that was not the resize handle :( |
| 23:54.29 | blast007 | spldart: ah, second machine |
| 23:54.31 | blast007 | JeffM: hehe |
| 23:55.26 | spldart | I'm figuring that when I'm in super help mode having one windows and one linux rig side by side ready to build can be of help and use to me for testing |
| 23:55.34 | blast007 | :) |