| 00:00.34 | techguyx | Well the main two I've been looking at so far are the Gfx engine integration and the network testing framework |
| 00:01.24 | techguyx | those are two areas I've done some work with before (not extensive, but a bit) and I'm extremely interested in learning more about either / getting hands-on with the concepts |
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| 00:02.13 | techguyx | the other network projects seem pretty interesting too in that aspect... although the web interface project seems like it might be a bit tricky in terms of implementing all the backend |
| 00:02.14 | brlcad | if you're not intimately familiar with a gfx engine already that we're considering, I'd lean against that (I don't recall if you're limited to one submission per org) |
| 00:03.07 | brlcad | the web interface one actually isn't nearly as hard as it seems -- the server already can respond different protocols now, just no guts behind it for http |
| 00:03.17 | Wyk3d | i was wondering about that global authentication daemon, what would it need to do that you couldn't achieve by letting both client and server communicate directly with the LDAP server ? |
| 00:03.30 | techguyx | ah, gotcha |
| 00:04.17 | brlcad | Wyk3d: that's certainly a possibility but some aspects like registration and caching are outside of LDAP |
| 00:04.28 | brlcad | so the auth daemon serves as that middleware layer |
| 00:05.04 | Wyk3d | i see .. |
| 00:05.05 | brlcad | it can hand out temporary one-time-use authentication keys, for example, letting players play for a while without registering but getting registered user credentials |
| 00:06.09 | brlcad | it can handle cache results so that as they hit up the server list refreshing 5 times a second it doesn't hit up the ldap that fast too |
| 00:06.45 | brlcad | you could push *some* of that into the client, but then you have to replicate almost the same stuff in for the server, so it becomes a little more clean to pull them into the daemon interface |
| 00:06.53 | Wyk3d | how many connections would you expect that to be handling ? |
| 00:07.22 | brlcad | plus it makes ldap just an implementation detail, e.g. if we find out we absolutely hate it later and want an sql-based backend |
| 00:07.44 | brlcad | (really not likely, but something to keep in mind) |
| 00:08.08 | Wyk3d | is there something that LDAP can do that you can't with sql ? |
| 00:08.14 | brlcad | well, it'd likely be handling at least as much as we do now when can burst as high as 30/sec or so now |
| 00:08.41 | brlcad | ldap integrates with the web services |
| 00:09.02 | brlcad | so we can have one user account that works for logging into the game, the forums, the website, etc |
| 00:09.12 | brlcad | and you only have to register once |
| 00:09.24 | Wyk3d | cool :) |
| 00:12.06 | brlcad | the web services do all talk directly to ldap, and drupal should even allow read and write for proper account management |
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| 00:12.41 | brlcad | ldap has a whole replication and master/slave setup that we can utilize for replication and load balancing too |
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| 00:14.20 | Wyk3d | so you would have multiple daemons talking with multiple LDAP server + game clients/servers ? |
| 00:14.45 | JeffM | and a toaster |
| 00:14.51 | JeffM | a toaster has to be part of the list server network |
| 00:14.59 | JeffM | toast based randomness is the best kind for generating keys |
| 00:15.28 | brlcad | Wyk3d: possibly .. for starters would likely just be one daemon and one ldap backend, and get everything talking to them |
| 00:15.28 | Winny | would it pop out a piece of toast when the my server got to the top? ;) |
| 00:15.37 | techguyx | toasters are without a doubt the most random machiens in the universe... |
| 00:15.45 | JeffM | see |
| 00:16.07 | brlcad | then could focus on making one daemon talk to replicated ldap backends, then replicate daemons |
| 00:17.34 | Wyk3d | sounds pretty good :) |
| 00:19.39 | Wyk3d | how important would security between client-daemon server-daemon be ? meaning .. is sending unprotected hashes over the network ok or should something like SRP be used ? |
| 00:20.24 | JeffM | man in the middle should be very rare |
| 00:20.27 | Epyon | brlcad, that "live code example" thing you mentioned earlier.... I would fail it :) |
| 00:20.32 | JeffM | it's a video game not a bank |
| 00:20.40 | Wyk3d | thought so :) |
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| 00:21.35 | techguyx | haha... although I've read some articles recently about some of the AAA titles having to deal with some pretty crazy attacks |
| 00:21.57 | brlcad | Epyon: no you wouldn't |
| 00:22.15 | JeffM | techguyx: that is more common in closed source games, that are you know, popular as heck ;) |
| 00:22.32 | L4m3r | heh... heh |
| 00:22.35 | brlcad | Wyk3d: I'd much rather see something like public/private keys |
| 00:22.59 | Epyon | brlcad, I would. I had no former C/C++ experience except a short uni course. |
| 00:23.12 | techguyx | haha yeah, obviously not a concern here |
| 00:23.20 | techguyx | just thought it was interesting is all :) |
| 00:23.21 | brlcad | Wyk3d: the actual line transmissions aren't that big a deal (e.g. for snoopers) |
| 00:23.35 | techguyx | honestly I wouldn't have expected even the massive titles to be dealing with that kind of stuff 5-10 years ago |
| 00:24.05 | Epyon | I was confident however, that once you know 5+ sufficiently different languages you know them all... |
| 00:24.16 | brlcad | since the communication is directly with the auth daemon and the client or the server, they're talking to a trusted source |
| 00:24.36 | brlcad | i could even see the client generating the public/private keys and then (*gasp*) sending them both to the auth daemon |
| 00:25.08 | brlcad | so they could still use passwords, and restore session data |
| 00:25.20 | brlcad | (e.g. logging in from multiple machines) |
| 00:25.35 | brlcad | yet having a network profile that followed them |
| 00:28.21 | Epyon | BTW, brlcad, I have a few suggestions for this years GSOC, both propositions for projects, as general ideas, what should I do with them? |
| 00:28.39 | Winny | Epyon! |
| 00:28.58 | Epyon | Winny, do you have some textures for me? ^_^ |
| 00:29.07 | Winny | sort of ;p |
| 00:30.49 | brlcad | Epyon: er, you should share them .. |
| 00:31.06 | brlcad | write them up and put them somewhere, blog/wiki/pastebin/here/whatever |
| 00:31.38 | brlcad | can integrate them into the ideas page |
| 00:32.02 | Epyon | Well the general ones are just a few ideas, so I can write them here. As for the project ideas, I'd first like to know if my vague ideas would be suitable for GSoC projects. |
| 00:32.19 | brlcad | ah, for YOU applying is a bit different |
| 00:32.27 | brlcad | just speak up ;) |
| 00:32.29 | Epyon | That's the second part :P |
| 00:32.30 | brlcad | or write them down |
| 00:32.41 | brlcad | ideally both |
| 00:32.49 | Epyon | The first part is a few ideas that would make my life easier last year ^_^ |
| 00:33.27 | Epyon | First of all force a proof from all applicants that they actually *did* compile BZF SVN head by themselves :P |
| 00:33.44 | brlcad | one thing I liked from another project was working on the project proposals via the wiki before the submission, formulate a plan and talk about the details, etc .. might be too much overhead but it's an interesting thought |
| 00:34.05 | brlcad | Epyon: hence that patches test .. |
| 00:34.28 | techguyx | yeah I've started trying to think out some sort of a plan in my head for what the network testing framework would look like as a project |
| 00:34.38 | brlcad | er, maybe you weren't around earlier when I said that -- idea being to make student submit a working patch of some sort |
| 00:34.44 | techguyx | is that something you guys are looking for in our application or do you come up with that yourselves ahead of time? |
| 00:34.53 | brlcad | if it doesn't apply, that wouldn't go in the students' favor very nicely |
| 00:34.54 | Epyon | And I'd also suggest that all applicants agree on submiting formal progress reports during the program timeframe, even if it's just "Today I didn't do nothin', I'll do stuff tommorow" recursively :P |
| 00:35.32 | Slynderdale | Hmm, anyone here have a good config file for HIX? |
| 00:35.36 | Epyon | Most of CS students are inherently lasy algorithms xP |
| 00:35.38 | brlcad | techguyx: it's a collaboration -- for some of the core ideas, we've discussed them in intimate detail, others are more freeform |
| 00:35.41 | Epyon | lazy* |
| 00:35.47 | JeffM | Slynderdale: hix runs well with the defaults |
| 00:35.50 | JeffM | or defaults and jumping |
| 00:35.57 | JeffM | it's not a complex map |
| 00:36.17 | JeffM | Epyon: this time we are going to work with the students more ( I hope ) |
| 00:36.26 | Epyon | JeffM :) |
| 00:36.29 | Winny | no acceleration limits, either |
| 00:36.42 | brlcad | Epyon: that is very different for every student (the formal progress reports) -- I think what we did was "right" last year, we were just *really* slow in realizing and enforcing it |
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| 00:37.05 | Slynderdale | Hmm problem is, even with the default settings, jumping seems a bit off :/ |
| 00:37.18 | JeffM | Slynderdale: nope, that's just the skill part |
| 00:37.22 | Epyon | brlcad, it worked since midterm. You should have started enforcing earlier :) |
| 00:38.11 | Epyon | Also, every application that recieves your preliminary "thumbs up" should be brought up to the wiki and expanded. |
| 00:38.19 | Slynderdale | JeffM: I mean, I played HIX on a server and jumping was set so you have to time your jumps carefully when jumping from platform to platform yet when I run it, you can easily jump pass the platforms or up onto the second level. :/ |
| 00:38.39 | JeffM | Slynderdale: as far as I know everyone runs it at the defaults |
| 00:38.47 | JeffM | it was made before you could SET the jump height |
| 00:38.50 | JeffM | it's an old map |
| 00:38.57 | Epyon | Also the student should formulate exactly what help he will need (as he sees it at application time) so he can quickly get to know the people that will be able to answer his questions. |
| 00:39.19 | JeffM | Epyon: those should be the developers working in the code with them |
| 00:39.25 | JeffM | and the users trying to build it |
| 00:39.28 | Slynderdale | JeffM: I havn't mesed with the jump height settings |
| 00:39.38 | JeffM | Slynderdale: I'm just telling you what I've seen |
| 00:39.44 | JeffM | and what I know |
| 00:41.39 | JeffM | brlcad: post the flyers on the blog ;) |
| 00:41.50 | JeffM | Epyon: they are prety easy |
| 00:42.02 | Epyon | Are they powerful enough? ;] |
| 00:42.10 | JeffM | depends what you mean by "power" |
| 00:42.21 | JeffM | they have access to a number of internal things |
| 00:42.26 | JeffM | if they need more, we add more |
| 00:42.29 | JeffM | simple as that |
| 00:42.36 | JeffM | the server itself can only do so much |
| 00:42.39 | Epyon | We were talking once about a plugin that supplies maps. |
| 00:42.41 | Slynderdale | JeffM: Heres the config I use http://pastebin.com/m6eda2add |
| 00:42.58 | brlcad | Epyon: that's my point -- by the time it was recognized, just took a while to recognize |
| 00:43.22 | JeffM | Epyon: you can supply the path to a temp map file if you have to. but you can't build messhes in memory ( unless that is exposed to the API ) |
| 00:43.23 | brlcad | and a lot of it (for you) was based on things getting pushed back so you could finish classes |
| 00:43.32 | JeffM | but there is nothing saying you can't expose all you need. |
| 00:43.58 | Epyon | brlcad, the idea is to recognize all the "stoppers" before coding starts. |
| 00:44.00 | JeffM | Slynderdale: it's proably your handycap stuff |
| 00:44.06 | Epyon | To minimize surpsrises. |
| 00:44.37 | brlcad | Epyon: possibly, still wouldn't have recognized your situation for a couple weeks at least, and it likely just would have resulted in your application getting lower-ranked.. :) |
| 00:44.38 | Slynderdale | JeffM: I had this problem even before I set handicap |
| 00:44.40 | JeffM | Epyon: IMHO that is the wrong way to treat it, coding does not stop and start, it's an interactive, iterative process, that involces the devs. |
| 00:44.42 | Epyon | surprizes* (darn, so much sp. mistakes, and I'm not even drunk -_-) |
| 00:44.48 | JeffM | Slynderdale: then I dunno man |
| 00:45.44 | Epyon | Yet I think it's a good idea to question the student on what his plans for the summer will be :P |
| 00:45.51 | brlcad | yep |
| 00:46.03 | brlcad | the application process will be more detailed, more personal |
| 00:46.51 | Epyon | brlcad, how do you see the chances of more game-projects in this years GSoC? Or at least the chances of continuation of game-related projects? |
| 00:47.13 | techguyx | yeah that's actually why I'm trying to get a bit of a head start on getting involved with this... I want to keep my schedule open for the summer as long as possible |
| 00:47.19 | JeffM | Epyon: there were 2 last year, do you know of anymore that will apply? |
| 00:47.37 | techguyx | but near the end of the process I'm going to have to start figuring out for sure what I'll be doing... which obviously varies a lot based on GSoC |
| 00:47.47 | Epyon | Nope, the only game-dev scene that I'm following are roguelikes and indies. |
| 00:48.03 | JeffM | we don't talk to many other open source games |
| 00:48.07 | JeffM | cus there are so very few |
| 00:48.09 | techguyx | i was over at OGRE's site earlier... I know they're applying again this year, not sure if that's who you meant earlier as the second |
| 00:48.16 | JeffM | but it would not suprise me if more applied |
| 00:48.16 | techguyx | that's more engine than game |
| 00:48.22 | Epyon | techguyx, I'd suggest you'd start discussing your proposal ASAP :) |
| 00:48.26 | JeffM | OGRE is not a game engine4 techguyx |
| 00:48.35 | techguyx | graphics engine, I know |
| 00:48.47 | techguyx | didn't specify - my bad |
| 00:48.59 | JeffM | they always get picky when people call them a game engine ;) |
| 00:49.11 | Epyon | heh ^^ |
| 00:49.16 | JeffM | it is highly likely that they will apply and be accepted this year |
| 00:49.17 | techguyx | yeah I figured that out in about 30 seconds of reading the front page and seeing it plastered across 3 different locations :D |
| 00:49.29 | techguyx | I can understand why though |
| 00:49.46 | JeffM | Ogre if very cool |
| 00:49.48 | techguyx | after about the 50th "Where's your sound library?" I'd probably feel the same way |
| 00:49.52 | Epyon | I'm pretty sure the graphic engine proposals will be accepted. |
| 00:50.03 | JeffM | I hope that enough bugs can be fixed in trunk so I can start the split out work so we can look at using it. |
| 00:50.14 | Epyon | It's TP and BZF I'm wondering about :) |
| 00:50.44 | JeffM | I would not want to do an ogre integration as a SoC project that was done like last year |
| 00:50.51 | JeffM | there is a lot of prework that has to be done |
| 00:51.07 | Epyon | JeffM, I guess it's a too big of a task. |
| 00:51.09 | JeffM | enought that, that work to get ready for any engine may take the full 3 months |
| 00:51.26 | JeffM | Epyon: it's not just that, it's such a core part, that everyone else needs to be involed just to understand it |
| 00:51.29 | Epyon | If you include the planning and research phase :P |
| 00:51.45 | JeffM | we can't have someone bust out an engine integration, then possibly bail |
| 00:52.14 | JeffM | indeed |
| 00:52.14 | brlcad | Epyon: I see the changes greatly increased |
| 00:52.30 | Epyon | chances*? |
| 00:52.31 | JeffM | I cry when I see how the entire world is implemented |
| 00:52.35 | techguyx | yeah as awesome as something like that sounds it probably would be a large task for GSoC |
| 00:52.39 | JeffM | Epyon: but we can mostly use OBJ files now |
| 00:52.42 | brlcad | er, yeah chances |
| 00:52.42 | JeffM | for the tank |
| 00:52.55 | Epyon | JeffM, what about the explosion animation? |
| 00:53.01 | brlcad | we ran a pretty successful program per google, which bodes well for other games |
| 00:53.04 | JeffM | yes ish |
| 00:53.30 | brlcad | I think we added a fair bit of "glitz" compared to other projects that they liked, raised the bar for many other projects |
| 00:53.44 | JeffM | Epyon: http://www.opencombat.net/files/images/bz/bzfi0014.png |
| 00:53.46 | techguyx | that being said, if there are specific steps you think could be taken in advance by an interested applicant that would make it feasible, I'd be interested in going after it |
| 00:53.52 | techguyx | for the graphics thing that is |
| 00:54.02 | JeffM | techguyx: fix all the bugs in 3.0 |
| 00:54.06 | JeffM | then split the graphics code out |
| 00:54.12 | brlcad | JeffM: I convinced the wesnoth guys to apply, will be cool if they make it |
| 00:54.13 | JeffM | then evaluate all possible engines |
| 00:54.15 | Epyon | JeffM, now that is what *I* call a tank ;] |
| 00:54.39 | JeffM | then work out a plan for how to implement said engine in the newly reorged bzflag codebase. |
| 00:54.41 | Epyon | brlcad, oh dear, now I'll need to apply to them with a random scenario generator -_- |
| 00:54.45 | JeffM | Epyon: sadly it can never be used |
| 00:54.56 | Epyon | JeffM, why? |
| 00:55.02 | JeffM | can't be open sourced |
| 00:55.10 | JeffM | I only have artistic use rights for that model |
| 00:55.14 | Epyon | JeffM, you mean the model? |
| 00:55.15 | JeffM | not relicenseing |
| 00:55.18 | JeffM | Epyon: indeed |
| 00:55.33 | Epyon | I can do one similar for you and release it under GPL if you bug me about it. |
| 00:55.37 | JeffM | I have a new BZ tank that hopefully will be implemnted for 3.0 |
| 00:55.39 | JeffM | as a model |
| 00:55.47 | JeffM | no we don't want to use that tank |
| 00:55.57 | Epyon | I mean "similar" :P |
| 00:55.58 | JeffM | http://www.opencombat.net/files/images/tank1.wrl |
| 00:56.03 | JeffM | we don't want a hovertank |
| 00:56.11 | JeffM | not for the default tank |
| 00:56.11 | Epyon | Too bad -_- |
| 00:56.27 | JeffM | you'll be able to have your own local replacement for them if you want |
| 00:56.34 | JeffM | so you can have hovertanks |
| 00:56.38 | JeffM | for your client if you want |
| 00:56.52 | Epyon | I've been recently working on some models for my own game, so I have an "itch" to do modeling work atm. |
| 00:57.14 | JeffM | the OBJ support is just prelimitary |
| 00:57.27 | JeffM | once we have more bugs fixed in trunk I'll go back to finishing it off |
| 00:57.41 | JeffM | and yes, they explode, only because you define the obj in the same 7 parts as the old code |
| 00:58.27 | Epyon | http://chaosforge.org/sd_halberd.png and http://chaosforge.org/latern-promo.png being the most recent |
| 00:58.40 | Winny | wow |
| 00:58.41 | JeffM | nice |
| 00:58.46 | JeffM | brlcad: indeed |
| 00:58.46 | Epyon | No textures yet though. |
| 00:58.47 | brlcad | i.e. code freeze now |
| 00:58.55 | Winny | blender? |
| 00:58.59 | JeffM | brlcad: then we have to pull a bunch of crap |
| 00:59.04 | Epyon | Winny, nope, 3ds max 9 |
| 00:59.07 | Winny | aww |
| 00:59.09 | Winny | :) |
| 00:59.10 | brlcad | JeffM: how so"? |
| 00:59.14 | JeffM | brlcad: I'd do push bug fixes, and finish off the remaining unfinished stuff |
| 00:59.26 | JeffM | a number of "Features" are not fully implmented |
| 00:59.28 | Epyon | Winny, I've been teaching 3ds max at the uni last semester xP |
| 00:59.30 | JeffM | mine specificly |
| 00:59.43 | JeffM | I could say a new feature frezze sure |
| 00:59.51 | JeffM | and concentrate on the bugs |
| 01:00.01 | JeffM | and then list off what needs to be finshed |
| 01:00.03 | JeffM | and finish it |
| 01:00.16 | brlcad | whatever helps it happen sooner rather than later |
| 01:00.21 | Epyon | JeffM, that sounds so just :) |
| 01:00.26 | JeffM | just? |
| 01:00.31 | brlcad | I think we could probably just solid bug-fix for a month and still have a rough time releasing in time |
| 01:00.35 | JeffM | you mean "logical"? |
| 01:00.52 | JeffM | brlcad: yes we need to push for bug fixes |
| 01:00.59 | JeffM | that is why I started to sort the bug list |
| 01:01.21 | brlcad | yeah, I noticed.. that's why I started bug hunting.. but the first bug has taken me two weeks :) |
| 01:01.31 | JeffM | techincaly I may have fixed a bug last night |
| 01:01.38 | JeffM | it just needs more extensive testing |
| 01:01.55 | JeffM | and a small feature to finish it off ( client side knowledge of shot limits ) |
| 01:02.06 | Winny | Epyon: If you hadn't of said you weren't a native english speaker, I never would have noticed |
| 01:02.54 | Epyon | BTW, was there any further work done on the GSoC projects, or is it just me and BZWGen? |
| 01:03.08 | JeffM | brlcad: there are also some "bugs" that need to be fixed as feature/proto changes instead of just puting it back the way it was |
| 01:03.09 | brlcad | a fair bit has gone on with bzrobots |
| 01:03.11 | Epyon | Winny, I know, it's just that I'm a perfectionist :/ |
| 01:03.12 | JeffM | GM updates for instance. |
| 01:03.40 | Epyon | brlcad, is it "playable" now? |
| 01:03.49 | brlcad | JeffM: and probably easier to "finish" some of those features than it'd actually be to unwind and fix |
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| 01:04.29 | JeffM | brlcad: indeed |
| 01:04.29 | JeffM | thats why I don't like the term "code freeze" |
| 01:04.29 | brlcad | Epyon: it was playable when he finished |
| 01:04.29 | JeffM | we will be adding a lot of code |
| 01:04.29 | brlcad | just haven't cleaned it up for a standalone run-time release |
| 01:04.34 | Epyon | By "playable" i mean "enjoyable" :) |
| 01:04.34 | JeffM | but we should say that what we have is what will release with, and lets just push to finish it off |
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| 01:04.55 | brlcad | JeffM: it wouldn't be the addition of *new* features, just the completion of existing and fixing bugs |
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| 01:05.05 | Epyon | I'd really like to see bots in BZFlag as seamlessly integrated as in Q3 for instance. |
| 01:05.10 | brlcad | getting things stable and stapled shut as best possible |
| 01:05.16 | JeffM | brlcad: yeah we are on the same page, I just don't like the name, since it has previous conotations ;) |
| 01:07.13 | brlcad | i've always seen code freeze meaning that .. it's only when "finishing" something really is really stretched and wasn't necessary that it starts to twist the meaning and mess things up |
| 01:07.29 | brlcad | or are drastic/untested and just as likely to inject an unknown bug |
| 01:08.40 | brlcad | techguyx: cheers for being one of the first to voice up intentions |
| 01:08.56 | brlcad | curious, how'd you find out about us participating? |
| 01:09.27 | Epyon | Ok, I'll get this idea out of my guts --- have you ever thought of sever side scripts using a scripting language? |
| 01:09.42 | Winny | Epyon, you mean plugins? ;) |
| 01:09.52 | techguyx | haha, thanks... I actually went looking on the GSoC site as soon as I heard about it |
| 01:09.59 | techguyx | and just started going through project by project |
| 01:10.11 | Epyon | Winny, I mean plugins using a far easier method that making unportable dll's or so's :P |
| 01:10.29 | techguyx | I'm *really* into game development - just got back from GDC last week and what not, so when i saw the project I thought that it sounded like something I'd be quite interested in |
| 01:10.35 | Epyon | techguyx, you mean last year's list? |
| 01:10.39 | techguyx | yeah |
| 01:11.03 | techguyx | ahhh man it was awesome, you've gotta go at some point |
| 01:11.46 | Epyon | techguyx, I'm mostly interested in IGF though ;] |
| 01:11.51 | techguyx | only had the expo pass this year though... sucks because some of the talks were amazing from what I heard |
| 01:12.03 | techguyx | I spent a majority of my time there :) |
| 01:12.12 | techguyx | that and the career pavilion |
| 01:12.28 | Epyon | techguyx, I know Derek Yu xP |
| 01:12.45 | techguyx | nice! |
| 01:13.08 | Epyon | Well, I never met him personaly, but he did sprites for two of my games. |
| 01:13.28 | techguyx | wow - that is awesome |
| 01:14.07 | Epyon | techguyx, if you wanna hook up with the indie scene, you definitively need to have a presence on the TIGSource forums :) |
| 01:14.17 | techguyx | yeah I'm actually in the process of tying up a breakout port for some freelance work right now... trying to wrap it up so I can go dive in the bzflag code |
| 01:14.37 | techguyx | TIGSource you say? I'll have to check it out |
| 01:14.43 | techguyx | *runs off to google* |
| 01:15.00 | Epyon | techguyx, http://tigsource.com/ |
| 01:15.37 | techguyx | sweet, thanks! |
| 01:18.31 | *** part/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@about/essy/fan/CBG) |
| 01:25.41 | Winny | if I start them at the same time as the map loads they all bunch up :P |
| 01:29.23 | brlcad | techguyx: cool |
| 01:29.46 | techguyx | yeah... I was pumped when I saw the project and then started reading more on the wiki and such |
| 01:29.48 | brlcad | Epyon: there is/was a python interface to the plugin interface |
| 01:29.49 | brlcad | nobody used it |
| 01:30.02 | Epyon | Because it was not lua :P |
| 01:30.10 | brlcad | heh |
| 01:31.01 | brlcad | techguyx: ah, you didn't get full conf? shame, there was some good talks this year that I almost went |
| 01:31.10 | Epyon | I mean the whole idea of using a scripting language is for non-programmers to be able to write scripts. I don't see that happening qith a complicated python interface, however this is probably just my call. |
| 01:31.14 | brlcad | but solid modeling and siggraph take priority |
| 01:31.33 | brlcad | Epyon: there are positives and downsides to both |
| 01:31.53 | techguyx | yeah, being a student and since it was our first year we (the group I went with) decided we couldn't justify getting full conf this time around |
| 01:32.04 | brlcad | either way, feature-wise at this point wouldn't really provide a whole heck of a lot since they were there, really popular, and not really limited |
| 01:32.06 | techguyx | then we all got there and decided that that was the worst decision we've made so far in 2008, heh |
| 01:32.34 | brlcad | servers are a vast minority, scripting the client would be more interesting -- integrating lua or python into the gui, for example, so you could write client-side plugins |
| 01:32.52 | brlcad | techguyx: where you from/at? |
| 01:33.02 | techguyx | Georgia Tech in Atlanta |
| 01:33.09 | brlcad | ahh |
| 01:33.10 | Epyon | I don't see much use for cliend side scripting except cheating or am I wrong? |
| 01:33.17 | Epyon | client* |
| 01:33.45 | techguyx | yeah the most expensive part of the trip was the flight out... you on the west coast? |
| 01:35.16 | brlcad | techguyx: do you know rossignac? |
| 01:35.50 | techguyx | not personally.. think I've heard of him though - is he in the CC (college of computing) here? |
| 01:35.55 | brlcad | wanted to work with him on a csg algorithm but couldn't get the collaboration off the ground |
| 01:36.03 | brlcad | yeah |
| 01:36.14 | techguyx | gotcha... yeah I don't know him myself |
| 01:37.16 | techguyx | I think he's with GVU (Graphics and Visualization)... they actually have their own complex sectioned off from campus |
| 01:37.18 | brlcad | Epyon: heck no -- customizing the gui |
| 01:37.20 | blast007 | Epyon: I can see uses. Like a new game mode, or custom UI elements |
| 01:37.38 | brlcad | user-defined scriptable guis, widgets for displaying info that they care about |
| 01:37.45 | techguyx | lua scripting for UI purposes is probably one of the single biggest factors behind WoW kick every other MMO into the ground these days |
| 01:37.47 | Epyon | blast007, new game mode client side? O.o |
| 01:38.15 | blast007 | well, I mean stuff for the UI |
| 01:38.25 | brlcad | trepan integrated lua into warzone's gui with pretty great success |
| 01:38.34 | brlcad | the integration should be pretty straight-forward |
| 01:38.49 | *** join/#bzflag Twh (n=0498b15b@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 01:38.52 | Epyon | blast007, I see. But would it work without any means of communication with the server? |
| 01:39.14 | Epyon | brlcad, I'd propose that as a GSoC project ;] |
| 01:39.21 | brlcad | sry, "Spring" (what a horrible name), not warzone |
| 01:39.35 | Epyon | +server side lua integration too. |
| 01:39.46 | Epyon | (should be a heck lot easier) |
| 01:39.52 | blast007 | http://spring.clan-sy.com/ |
| 01:40.08 | Winny | that water is awesome |
| 01:40.16 | brlcad | Epyon: I'd say yes -- no server chatter outside of the client-side commands you can invoke |
| 01:40.31 | Winny | eh, the screenshots are down |
| 01:40.32 | Winny | weird |
| 01:41.18 | Epyon | brlcad, how does this look in terms of a GSoC proposal? |
| 01:45.41 | brlcad | trepan has some screens up on .bz |
| 01:46.05 | Epyon | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:46.21 | brlcad | e.g. http://trepan.bzflag.bz/spring/jpg/luactrl4.jpg .. many of those gui elements are lua-driven (including the entire look of the buttons and what actions they bind to) |
| 01:46.55 | brlcad | here he uses it to draw into the 3D scene: http://trepan.bzflag.bz/spring/jpg/luagfx.jpg |
| 01:47.08 | Epyon | I was asking if it would be a sound GSoC proposal :P |
| 01:47.23 | brlcad | possibly, depends on the proposal :) |
| 01:47.31 | techguyx | heheh |
| 01:47.38 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@adsl-76-243-140-190.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:47.47 | Epyon | I'll keep it in mind then ;] |
| 01:48.36 | Epyon | I did a lot of lua integration into my own games recently so I feel quite sure with it now. |
| 01:48.55 | *** join/#bzflag bz71 (n=18ef0b73@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 01:49.03 | bz71 | bb |
| 01:49.08 | brlcad | you'd probably have to provide a clear detailed integration proposal but I think the project is scopeable |
| 01:49.23 | Winny | bz71: ? |
| 01:49.32 | bz71 | what |
| 01:49.46 | JeffM | bz71, all you said was bb |
| 01:50.01 | brlcad | like just what to expose, how to hook that into the drawing loop, how to keep things neatly integrated with the client |
| 01:50.01 | bz71 | srry i'm new at this |
| 01:50.14 | JeffM | it's ok, what can we help you with? |
| 01:50.34 | Epyon | brlcad, sure. I'd need to do some research first though. |
| 01:50.35 | blast007 | http://preview.tinyurl.com/2p4oqm <-- Epyon / Winny: you can get to the fill sized files from the links on the cached google page |
| 01:50.46 | blast007 | for TA:Spring |
| 01:51.08 | Winny | mm.. nice water :p |
| 01:51.16 | JeffM | ta spring should apply to SoC |
| 01:51.41 | brlcad | indeed |
| 01:53.00 | techguyx | Can the April and November DirectX SDKs be run separately on the same machine, or will I need to uninstall the Nov. one to compile BZFlag? |
| 01:53.18 | JeffM | you can disable the joystick stuff and use november |
| 01:53.33 | JeffM | or change the include to be dinput8.h |
| 01:53.33 | techguyx | ah, gotcha |
| 01:53.40 | techguyx | thanks |
| 01:54.15 | JeffM | they basicly merged the old header into the 8 header |
| 01:54.37 | JeffM | and we havent' made a build target for it yet |
| 01:55.15 | techguyx | gotcha - wonder if they had any particular reason for the merge |
| 01:55.40 | JeffM | probalby us they want people to use the dx8 interface instead of the old one |
| 01:57.33 | JeffM | hmmm, we do need one more feature in 3.0 |
| 01:57.40 | JeffM | the map info block |
| 01:57.43 | JeffM | anyone want to do that? |
| 01:58.55 | Winny | 3.0 isn't going to have server side shot computation anymore? |
| 01:59.08 | JeffM | noone has done it |
| 01:59.12 | JeffM | so probably not |
| 01:59.23 | JeffM | probably just GMs |
| 01:59.25 | Winny | So you guys are aiming for a release date now? |
| 01:59.30 | JeffM | no |
| 01:59.43 | JeffM | but we can't wait forever |
| 01:59.57 | JeffM | so we'll just fix what we have and shoot it out |
| 02:00.33 | JeffM | and it's not like anyone is chomping at the bit to do the shot stuff |
| 02:01.29 | JeffM | map info should be prety easy and will help get rid of a lot of confusion I think |
| 02:04.12 | JeffM | it's even got a feature specification.. noone wants to do it :( |
| 02:04.29 | Epyon | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:04.38 | JeffM | http://my.bzflag.org/w/World_Info%28object%29 |
| 02:05.16 | JeffM | it dosen't even have to be part of the world object send, it can be it's own message |
| 02:08.51 | JeffM | crickets... |
| 02:17.28 | *** join/#bzflag hobbsc (n=hobbsc@ip70-178-55-100.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 02:17.29 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-113-160-012.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 02:20.50 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban) |
| 02:37.49 | *** join/#bzflag short_circuit (n=james@c-98-197-19-35.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 02:37.56 | *** part/#bzflag spldart (n=short_ci@c-98-197-19-35.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 02:39.41 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=Jeff@pool-71-109-231-178.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 02:40.12 | JeffM | one part love.. one part wild.. one party lady.. one part child.. give you... |
| 02:40.36 | a_meteorite | full part monkey |
| 02:40.45 | JeffM | hole lot of fire.. little bit of ice. |
| 02:41.13 | JeffM | come on.. don't make me feel THAT old |
| 02:45.00 | a_meteorite | you're only in your 30s, no? |
| 02:45.19 | JeffM | halfway thru |
| 02:45.41 | a_meteorite | I feel old at 17 ;) |
| 02:52.20 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman- (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
| 02:53.29 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r16670 10/trunk/web/submitimages/ (directory.index.php tmp/directory.php): Move the ./tmp/directory.php pages to ./directory.index.php |
| 02:58.19 | JeffM | 17 is still a child |
| 02:58.30 | JeffM | wait till your first loan payment |
| 02:58.34 | brlcad | heh |
| 02:58.34 | JeffM | or credit card |
| 02:58.41 | brlcad | 30 is still a child! |
| 02:58.44 | JeffM | or the joy of RENT |
| 02:58.46 | short_circuit | youngins |
| 02:59.00 | JeffM | yeah but none of them know the deaf leapard |
| 02:59.08 | JeffM | the bastards |
| 02:59.10 | JeffM | ;) |
| 02:59.20 | short_circuit | Pyromania |
| 02:59.48 | brlcad | wonder if they know sir mix-a-lot and the beastie boys |
| 03:00.15 | short_circuit | I've been listening to beasty boys since the beginning :-D |
| 03:00.53 | short_circuit | Duran Duran to AC/DC Cyndi Lauper to Pat Benatar |
| 03:01.06 | brlcad | since the beginning.. wonder put you that young short_circuit :) |
| 03:01.22 | brlcad | hell, i'm not young enough for "the beginning" |
| 03:01.36 | brlcad | or do you mean "your" beginning .. :) |
| 03:01.38 | JeffM | IIRC you too are a baby ;) |
| 03:01.46 | JeffM | DTR makes me feel old |
| 03:02.01 | JeffM | dude started public school when I ended it. |
| 03:02.11 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:02.53 | brlcad | it wigs me out a bit to think i'm older than you were when we first met ;) |
| 03:02.55 | short_circuit | I was done with college in the 80's :( |
| 03:03.18 | brlcad | short_circuit: really... |
| 03:03.25 | JeffM | heh |
| 03:03.26 | brlcad | huh |
| 03:03.32 | short_circuit | You know it's spldart right? |
| 03:03.39 | brlcad | ah, heh |
| 03:03.42 | brlcad | nope |
| 03:03.51 | short_circuit | Next year I'll have 2 daughters in High School |
| 03:04.11 | JeffM | man I'm going to have to get some more ink to print these labels :( |
| 03:04.14 | brlcad | or at least I'd forgot .. I just think of the movie and place you being born about that timeframe :) |
| 03:04.19 | short_circuit | I've got a ton of music coming back now 8-O |
| 03:04.56 | brlcad | you need to go to one of our get-togethers so I can put a face with the name |
| 03:05.09 | brlcad | LA, 2008! |
| 03:05.21 | JeffM | jbd wants to have a shirt pick up party somewhere over here |
| 03:06.01 | short_circuit | Ca is half a country away :( |
| 03:06.04 | brlcad | could see if you guys could get in for a bzflag bof at siggraph one day, I bet more than a few would show up |
| 03:06.21 | JeffM | BZFlag world tour |
| 03:06.26 | JeffM | starts at 127.0.0.1 |
| 03:06.31 | JeffM | goes thru the major server Ips |
| 03:06.36 | short_circuit | LMAO |
| 03:06.36 | JeffM | then ends at 127.0.0.1 |
| 03:06.48 | short_circuit | loopback eh |
| 03:06.49 | brlcad | short_circuit: I've been flying through tx these days for variety, come by the airport and drinks on me |
| 03:07.08 | Epyon | short_circuit, quit whining, at least it's not half a WORLD away :P |
| 03:07.09 | short_circuit | Lemme know which one and I'll see if I can get there |
| 03:07.28 | brlcad | what's the big hub .. dallas? |
| 03:07.28 | short_circuit | Obviously they'd have a Europeon tour too :-p |
| 03:07.37 | brlcad | er, houston |
| 03:08.27 | short_circuit | Most stuff outta houston seems to bounce off Atlanta Geogia wierd |
| 03:08.46 | JeffM | texas is no small state |
| 03:09.15 | short_circuit | Tx an Ca are teh biggies in pop and real estate |
| 03:09.40 | *** join/#bzflag sigonasr2 (n=sigonasr@ip72-200-88-154.tc.ph.cox.net) |
| 03:09.40 | JeffM | does TX hate alaska? |
| 03:09.44 | short_circuit | Nope |
| 03:09.49 | brlcad | mm. looks like dallas is the hub |
| 03:10.07 | brlcad | next closest is pheonix |
| 03:10.19 | short_circuit | But texas does have a unique pride... having been the only republic to join the union |
| 03:10.43 | brlcad | ah, there's one through houston.. so there are some options |
| 03:11.08 | brlcad | short_circuit: you mean the only republic to allow the union to join, right? |
| 03:11.18 | short_circuit | hehe yeah |
| 03:12.43 | brlcad | screenie? |
| 03:12.54 | JeffM | very similar to the one you saw |
| 03:12.57 | JeffM | small tweaks |
| 03:12.57 | JeffM | I' |
| 03:13.04 | JeffM | I'll take a picture tomorow |
| 03:13.04 | brlcad | figured, looked awesome |
| 03:13.07 | short_circuit | Pogo says yay! She would like to see some faces to put to names :) |
| 03:13.18 | short_circuit | Nighty night |
| 03:13.23 | brlcad | cya |
| 03:13.26 | JeffM | I made the BZFlag text be transperant |
| 03:13.30 | JeffM | to give it texture |
| 03:13.41 | JeffM | and added the URL at the bottom |
| 03:13.45 | brlcad | er, wha wha.. i'm the one on the right coast .. it's not bed time! :) |
| 03:14.12 | brlcad | ah, so it shows the disk through? |
| 03:14.28 | JeffM | no, the grass |
| 03:14.29 | brlcad | how're you doing that without a press? |
| 03:14.32 | brlcad | ah |
| 03:14.39 | JeffM | it's a normal label :) |
| 03:14.55 | JeffM | tho I do own knives to do that, I'm NOT |
| 03:15.19 | JeffM | we have one too |
| 03:15.26 | JeffM | it works some of the times |
| 03:15.29 | JeffM | epson? |
| 03:15.44 | brlcad | i'd think you guys have a proper CD press |
| 03:15.53 | JeffM | we send em out |
| 03:16.31 | JeffM | we make special CDs all the time, so we tried the CD printer deal to see if it would be easier then labels |
| 03:16.33 | JeffM | it isn't |
| 03:17.24 | JeffM | aww, and you didn't post the flyers to the blog :( |
| 03:17.39 | brlcad | not an epson, it's a lightscribe |
| 03:17.45 | brlcad | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LightScribe |
| 03:17.52 | JeffM | ahh yeah lightscribe |
| 03:18.00 | JeffM | we have boatloads of those drives at work |
| 03:18.02 | JeffM | never use them |
| 03:18.13 | brlcad | ahh |
| 03:19.11 | JeffM | epson makes a printer, that can print directly onto CDs |
| 03:19.14 | JeffM | in full color |
| 03:20.07 | JeffM | http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&oid=63069504 |
| 03:22.10 | blast007 | I've got a drive with DiscT@2, which is similar to Lightscribe, but a lot more crappy |
| 03:22.20 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:22.27 | JeffM | ohh yeah, the design was just my stab in the dark |
| 03:22.38 | JeffM | others are working on them too |
| 03:22.41 | JeffM | and I have other ideas |
| 03:22.43 | blast007 | it puts the label onto the unused data portion of the disk |
| 03:22.55 | JeffM | ahh the inner ring? |
| 03:22.58 | blast007 | and only is visible with specific discs |
| 03:23.13 | blast007 | not sure if it's the inner or the outter |
| 03:23.20 | blast007 | never bought discs that really show it well |
| 03:23.21 | brlcad | wth is up with i died once? |
| 03:23.43 | blast007 | hmm? |
| 03:24.04 | JeffM | for the BZ CDs I figured i'd print up a bunch of labels, burn a bunch of CDs, and then one day when DTR and I are playing shadowrun with chris and jer, just label up them all |
| 03:24.19 | JeffM | also wanted to see if I could spray a sealant on the label side to protect it |
| 03:24.49 | JeffM | then I can start selling them |
| 03:24.52 | brlcad | blast007: nothing, just a wry comment on the bb |
| 03:24.52 | JeffM | as tests |
| 03:25.01 | JeffM | well if we get the paypal and USPS setup |
| 03:25.17 | JeffM | dunno who you want to tie it to initaly |
| 03:26.38 | JeffM | re the blog, if you post your flyers, it will bump the ugly shirt designs down ;) |
| 03:26.54 | JeffM | and make it so it's not just me |
| 03:36.08 | brlcad | done |
| 03:36.39 | JeffM | hurzah |
| 03:36.47 | brlcad | heh, should make mentors do the same as students (i.e. post a "patch"/message) |
| 03:38.33 | brlcad | have to update the participation requirements for some of the ideas picked up during/since the summit.. |
| 03:52.13 | brlcad | just checked, students can submit multiple applications to the same organization -- you just have a hard limit of 20 submissions total |
| 03:53.17 | techguyx | ah, very cool |
| 03:55.12 | brlcad | and a hidden caveat warning to just not let multiple submissions dilute each other .. but if it's a "contentious" topic, it might be worth multiple |
| 04:06.59 | Winny | boo |
| 04:10.19 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r16671 10/trunk/web/submitimages/ (directory.htaccess directory.index.php): |
| 04:10.19 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: Add an htaccess file to be symlinked or copied to the document root to block access to the SQLite database, and to automatically display the nice file listing script for the image directories. |
| 04:10.19 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: Modify the directory script to handle mod_rewrite instead of a symlink. |
| 04:14.16 | blast007 | heh |
| 04:15.07 | blast007 | scheduled for right after Duke Nukem Forever |
| 04:15.15 | Winny | blast007, you forgot! |
| 04:15.21 | Winny | thats being released this year |
| 04:15.23 | JeffM | brlcad: right after loging |
| 04:15.26 | Winny | they say |
| 04:15.27 | blast007 | Winny: oh crap! |
| 04:15.29 | brlcad | hehe |
| 04:15.33 | brlcad | so true |
| 04:15.40 | brlcad | he's at least committing though |
| 04:15.49 | brlcad | and it works, I swear I've seen it in action |
| 04:16.22 | blast007 | it's probably far enough along as of that last commit to throw it into action |
| 04:16.29 | JeffM | cool |
| 04:16.55 | blast007 | the only part that's not really *done* is a nice looking queue page |
| 04:17.12 | blast007 | well, the actual queue page is okay, it's the results page that's just plain text right now |
| 04:17.31 | JeffM | don't shoot shotgun! |
| 04:17.40 | blast007 | and most of the site can be translated as of right now too |
| 04:17.54 | blast007 | the entire upload page can be translated |
| 04:18.09 | *** join/#bzflag FusionDude (n=jwmelto@unaffiliated/flash) |
| 04:18.24 | blast007 | (including the JS validation messages) |
| 04:20.52 | blast007 | http://images.bzexcess.com/swichser/ <-- even shows the author and uploader name from the SQLite databases |
| 04:21.35 | brlcad | nifty |
| 04:22.01 | blast007 | and because it's an SQLite database per directory, we can rename the directories and not break the info |
| 04:22.57 | blast007 | technically I could probably get away from MySQL completely, and fully use SQLite |
| 04:23.04 | blast007 | but for now, it's fine |
| 04:23.06 | brlcad | how's the sqlite db tied to the dir or does it sit inside the dir? |
| 04:23.13 | blast007 | it's inside the dir |
| 04:23.24 | blast007 | and blocked from access via the .htaccess |
| 04:23.31 | brlcad | what's mysql used for? |
| 04:23.37 | blast007 | used for the queue |
| 04:23.49 | blast007 | for no reason other than that's how I started it |
| 04:24.02 | brlcad | might as well fully decouple .. would make install a sinch |
| 04:24.08 | blast007 | yup |
| 04:24.09 | brlcad | ~spell sinch |
| 04:24.16 | brlcad | mm. cinch |
| 04:24.51 | Winny | cinnamon? |
| 04:25.01 | blast007 | spinach |
| 04:25.07 | Winny | mm |
| 04:25.36 | blast007 | let's sing about the stench of spinich |
| 04:33.11 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r16672 10/trunk/web/submitimages/directory.index.php: Directory listing, now with less eye burnage! |
| 04:34.24 | Winny | yay! |
| 04:34.38 | Winny | less eye burnage is a good thing! |
| 04:40.42 | a_meteorite | can I has laser in my eyes? |
| 04:41.32 | JeffM | oooo lolcat talk in IRC, new low.... :( |
| 04:41.51 | a_meteorite | JeffM: I can switch back voluntarily ;) |
| 04:42.06 | JeffM | the core problem is that you HAVE a switch in the first place |
| 04:42.29 | a_meteorite | it's usually stuck except sometimes it seems to switch |
| 04:43.00 | a_meteorite | anyone who can do switch surgery is welcome to my switch :) |
| 04:44.42 | Constitution | JeffM: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=12329, I think you confused "BZWorldBuilder" with bzwgen |
| 04:44.56 | JeffM | probably |
| 04:44.59 | JeffM | you can fix it |
| 04:45.02 | JeffM | I never remember the names |
| 04:45.50 | a_meteorite | Constitution: *froum |
| 04:46.08 | blast007 | a_meteorite: what? |
| 04:46.18 | a_meteorite | never mind |
| 04:53.49 | *** join/#bzflag cjhopman (n=cjhopman@24-183-44-113.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 04:56.41 | *** join/#bzflag hwilde (n=hwilde@pool-68-162-176-12.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 04:56.49 | hwilde | hey have you guys seen the alien battlefield |
| 04:56.53 | hwilde | gotta peep the graphics yo |
| 04:57.30 | JeffM | ? |
| 04:58.03 | blast007 | what is that in english? |
| 04:58.28 | hwilde | join the server that says Alien Battlefield, check out the cool graphics |
| 05:05.47 | hwilde | shot tracking server side? |
| 05:06.28 | JeffM | no |
| 05:06.46 | JeffM | updating the player shot with the server shot info, in case they are not the same, such as when a flag has limted shots |
| 05:07.16 | JeffM | the tracking of shots on the server won't change the protocoll at all |
| 05:07.18 | brlcad | heh |
| 05:08.50 | hwilde | how about gms too :) |
| 05:09.24 | JeffM | we have a message to steer the GMs now |
| 05:09.28 | JeffM | so that won't change proto ether |
| 05:09.34 | JeffM | we'l just send them from a difrent source |
| 05:09.35 | hwilde | freakin sweet |
| 05:09.42 | JeffM | I mean they are steered now |
| 05:09.46 | JeffM | so there has to be a way ;) |
| 05:09.50 | hwilde | then they can't accuse me of cheating just because I have mad gm skillz |
| 05:10.21 | JeffM | GM is probably the only shot that will make it server side for 3.0 |
| 05:10.24 | JeffM | since it's easy |
| 05:10.28 | JeffM | and currently busted ;) |
| 05:12.06 | blast007 | (once that's done) does that mean that a server mod could make the GM dodge around buildings? |
| 05:12.12 | blast007 | ;) |
| 05:12.21 | JeffM | yes |
| 05:12.25 | blast007 | heh |
| 05:12.37 | hwilde | I would like to see a mod where u can steer gms by turning your tank :) |
| 05:12.40 | JeffM | there should not be any reason to not hook the GM updates into the API |
| 05:14.08 | blast007 | hwilde: that would be pretty much pointless |
| 05:14.34 | hwilde | except you could 'steer' them around buildings |
| 05:14.36 | JeffM | go play 'bz' on the SGI, it can do that |
| 05:15.04 | blast007 | or Descent 2 for DOS can do that :P |
| 05:15.20 | blast007 | not a tank game, but it has a guided missile |
| 05:15.54 | hwilde | descent for ps1 was awesome |
| 05:16.39 | blast007 | hwilde: someone ported Descent 2 to the Mameo platform, so I was running it on my Nokia N800 ;) |
| 05:17.15 | hwilde | did u see the n810 yet with the keyboard |
| 05:17.16 | blast007 | unfortunately I don't think it had TCP/IP support for multiplayer |
| 05:17.29 | blast007 | yeah, that one is a lot more $$$ :) |
| 05:17.33 | hwilde | yeah but that's the first smartphone that has made me want a smartphone |
| 05:17.45 | blast007 | it's not a phone |
| 05:17.49 | hwilde | skype |
| 05:18.05 | JeffM | does it even have a mic? |
| 05:18.07 | blast007 | I call a smartphone something that can make cell phone calls |
| 05:18.08 | blast007 | JeffM: yes |
| 05:18.20 | JeffM | I don't tink my 770 does |
| 05:18.21 | blast007 | JeffM: and a webcam |
| 05:18.36 | blast007 | the N800 and N810 have a mic and webcam |
| 05:18.41 | JeffM | ahh |
| 05:18.49 | blast007 | though skype doesn't yet work with the camera |
| 05:20.07 | blast007 | JeffM: the 770 has a considerably older OS too, as I think it only runs OS2006 |
| 05:20.13 | JeffM | yep |
| 05:20.18 | blast007 | the N800 can run OS2008 |
| 05:20.23 | JeffM | fun |
| 05:20.29 | JeffM | how often do you use it? |
| 05:20.35 | JeffM | and do you have wifi everywhere? |
| 05:20.38 | blast007 | every day at work |
| 05:20.49 | blast007 | "everywhere" I'm at, yes |
| 05:20.56 | JeffM | once you stop :) |
| 05:20.58 | blast007 | I drive to work, and I drive home |
| 05:21.11 | blast007 | so I have wifi in both spots ;) |
| 05:21.47 | JeffM | and probably a real phone at both spots |
| 05:21.53 | blast007 | yeah |
| 05:22.04 | blast007 | I don't use the skype functionality |
| 05:22.09 | hwilde | but its free |
| 05:22.28 | JeffM | if you can finagle wifi |
| 05:22.36 | JeffM | I doubt he pays money for his phone at work |
| 05:24.25 | blast007 | the built-in email app sucks, as does the RSS app |
| 05:24.35 | blast007 | they're really slow |
| 05:24.36 | JeffM | now if it had unlimted data thru a cell network, and I coudl skype over that, and only pay like 15-20 a month.. done deal |
| 05:26.13 | blast007 | even though it has skype and gizmo, I don't call it a phone |
| 05:26.18 | blast007 | it's an Internet Tablet |
| 05:27.21 | hwilde | so you carry that and a laptop and a cell phone ? |
| 05:27.51 | JeffM | usualy just that and a phone |
| 05:27.59 | JeffM | that's the point of it |
| 05:28.07 | JeffM | mini laptop to give you more then what a phone would do |
| 05:28.18 | JeffM | but it can bluetooth the phone where you don't have wifi |
| 05:28.19 | blast007 | hwilde: I don't need a laptop with me. I have a workstation at work. |
| 05:28.52 | hwilde | have you seen the asus eee pc yet? it's pretty tight |
| 05:29.12 | JeffM | it is, but it too is not a phone ;) |
| 05:32.26 | hwilde | i'm waiting until the cell manufacturers beat the carriers |
| 05:32.33 | hwilde | then we can get all the cool phones from singapore |
| 05:35.07 | JeffM | grrr shots ids are salted... |
| 05:36.42 | hwilde | a_meteorite, where is boxy |
| 05:37.17 | a_meteorite | where it's always been? |
| 05:37.24 | a_meteorite | it should still be up, do a search |
| 05:38.58 | think_tank | it's on bzfx? |
| 05:39.30 | a_meteorite | no |
| 05:40.01 | a_meteorite | the company didn't call back yesterday or today, so it can't be on bzfx :) |
| 05:40.10 | a_meteorite | bzflag.pl:7500 |
| 05:40.29 | think_tank | ;) |
| 05:40.42 | hwilde | where is everybody |
| 05:40.52 | think_tank | who is running bzflag.pl? |
| 05:41.18 | a_meteorite | says right in the description, ramires |
| 05:41.36 | think_tank | a_meteorite, i'm an american. laziness is my nature |
| 05:41.52 | a_meteorite | hmmm, I'm american too, but certainly not lazy |
| 05:41.59 | think_tank | ;) |
| 05:42.05 | hwilde | badgerking is dead... that's what they get for banning me. another good server destroyed by power tripping admins |
| 05:42.08 | a_meteorite | might want to make sure you weren't born with another nationality ;) |
| 05:42.20 | think_tank | i actually was ;) |
| 05:42.27 | think_tank | hwilde: what happened over there? |
| 05:42.40 | hwilde | I dunno but nobody is on it now |
| 05:43.43 | hwilde | I guess if you ban enough people for cheating when they are not cheating you end up with no players on your server |
| 05:44.27 | a_meteorite | in theory that'd be a plausible presumption |
| 05:45.02 | hwilde | i miss secretplace |
| 05:45.09 | hwilde | and babel |
| 05:45.39 | a_meteorite | send the maps and configs and I'll work some bzfx magic :) |
| 05:45.41 | hwilde | no good ctf games right now |
| 05:45.53 | hwilde | I think babel and overlord are on the wiki from grassroots |
| 05:45.57 | a_meteorite | I have a good babel and overlord config iirc |
| 05:46.07 | hwilde | and somebody has secretplace because it pops up like every three months |
| 05:46.11 | hwilde | I think THEMAN has it |
| 05:47.09 | hwilde | actually spiralzone is up at fairserve right now |
| 05:47.15 | hwilde | and wiz has it up too |
| 05:47.21 | hwilde | in the list do /spiral |
| 05:47.53 | a_meteorite | next time you're looking for boxy you can also do the same... heh... |
| 05:48.08 | hwilde | I was just gonna ask if the list could support / searching |
| 05:48.13 | hwilde | and hten it became true before I even asked |
| 05:49.43 | hwilde | a_meteorite, what's with the bzfx website? |
| 05:49.58 | a_meteorite | no server so it won't load of course |
| 05:50.17 | hwilde | ah I was just about to donate!@ |
| 05:50.25 | a_meteorite | you still can |
| 05:50.28 | hwilde | doh! |
| 05:50.55 | hwilde | what if you made a paypal plugin where you could bet like $1 per kill and then play for money |
| 05:51.03 | a_meteorite | lol... |
| 05:51.16 | a_meteorite | that would be possible but possibly very evil :) |
| 05:51.34 | a_meteorite | I could just imagine people addicted to BZFlag...*literally* |
| 05:51.37 | hwilde | yeah |
| 05:51.40 | hwilde | isn't that the goal ? |
| 05:51.59 | hwilde | I mean that would put some extra pressure on the cheat detection |
| 05:52.04 | hwilde | but it would be freakin awesome |
| 05:52.20 | hwilde | the server could take a cut |
| 05:52.22 | hwilde | like partypoker |
| 05:53.37 | Constitution | everything involving playing for money has always been shot down afaik... although I think there was a tournament once that issued prizes like some audio gear and stuff |
| 05:54.00 | a_meteorite | Constitution: he means an add on plugin |
| 05:54.08 | hwilde | I mean there are no games riht now |
| 05:54.14 | hwilde | we need to do something to get people playing more |
| 05:54.19 | hwilde | instead of just sitting on irc bsing |
| 05:54.20 | Constitution | hwilde: babel and overlord are in the Divibox rotation at divi.fairserve.net:5154 |
| 05:54.26 | hwilde | yeah with no players |
| 05:54.32 | hwilde | i'm on spiralzone now too |
| 05:54.42 | hwilde | by myself wow fun |
| 05:54.58 | Constitution | so they're "up," which was your original complaint, no? |
| 05:55.07 | a_meteorite | talking about money, I think with the LGPL it'd be very feasible to box up BZ and sale it retail? |
| 05:55.20 | Constitution | heh |
| 05:55.24 | hwilde | if you provide install media and documentation you can box up almost anything |
| 05:55.36 | hwilde | including suse and ubuntu |
| 05:55.39 | a_meteorite | very evil, but even if you release source mods, you can link it to closed source dlls/so's so you need those to run your modded version |
| 05:55.49 | a_meteorite | since LGPL allows linking to closed source |
| 05:56.23 | hwilde | what about selling advertising on the servers to generate revenue |
| 05:56.24 | Constitution | anyone who has a decent enough connection to play bzflag has a decent enough connection to download it |
| 05:56.38 | hwilde | you could be sponsored by mountain dew |
| 05:56.42 | a_meteorite | Constitution: that's besides the point, you'd really need to do some nice work to make it worth it to buy it |
| 05:56.59 | hwilde | you would need some players online that's for sure.... |
| 05:57.07 | a_meteorite | much better graphics, maybe some sort of single player/campaign, official servers and maps |
| 05:57.20 | a_meteorite | though I don't know how a tank campaign would work out... LOL |
| 05:57.49 | Constitution | if you mod the LGPL you need to release the source code for your mods, right? |
| 05:58.08 | Constitution | although you could decline to make it available via download |
| 05:58.27 | a_meteorite | Constitution: you could make it so your mods link to your closed source mods and only work with the closed source stuff, the LGPL allows that |
| 05:58.42 | a_meteorite | so even with your open source mods they'd be useless without the closed source components |
| 05:58.54 | hwilde | come play fairserve spiralzone :) |
| 05:59.13 | a_meteorite | I think that's the key difference between GPL and LGPL.. linking to closed source |
| 06:00.54 | Constitution | so... you take the client (that hundreds of people have donated countless hours toward), make some enhancements, box it up as a retail version and make a profit for yourself? |
| 06:01.19 | Constitution | I don't quite follow |
| 06:01.36 | a_meteorite | the subject was on money, so I'm just saying the various ways one could make money |
| 06:01.45 | a_meteorite | but, yeah, that's how it'd work. you take advantage of other people. |
| 06:01.58 | a_meteorite | though most business is like that ;) |
| 06:02.19 | blast007 | I could sell a texture CD! And I would cite my source too! images.google.com |
| 06:02.26 | a_meteorite | lol! |
| 06:03.13 | a_meteorite | Constitution: you only have to make the source available, it doesn't even have to be in the box... you could require people to send in a letter for request then make them pay for shipping and other costs |
| 06:03.34 | a_meteorite | like shipping, CD, packaging, whatever is "reasonable", iirc, by the LGPL itself |
| 06:03.54 | blast007 | the cost to feed the goat |
| 06:03.59 | blast007 | etc |
| 06:04.16 | a_meteorite | well, see, goats milk byproducts are in packaging! |
| 06:04.21 | a_meteorite | so they deserve a cut |
| 06:05.36 | *** join/#bzflag Flash (n=jwmelto@unaffiliated/flash) |
| 06:05.49 | a_meteorite | Flash: come buy my closed source BZFlag, thanks! |
| 06:06.30 | Constitution | a_meteorite: yes, hence my "decline to make it available for download" comment |
| 06:06.44 | Constitution | download, CD, however |
| 06:06.44 | a_meteorite | Constitution: yup, only via shipped CD |
| 06:07.03 | a_meteorite | there are still many evil things one could do with open source |
| 06:13.34 | ruskie | sounds like a no-op plan... |
| 06:18.31 | a_meteorite | ruskie: not really going to do it, just suggesting what is possible ;) |
| 06:19.24 | ruskie | and afaik you can't really sell it retail... you can sell it at max the price of the media and any accompanying stuff |
| 06:21.38 | a_meteorite | there is no reason you can't sell open source software, as long as the source is made available |
| 06:21.49 | ruskie | so let's say 0.5 eur for the cd/dvd and a printed manual(how much would that cost to produce?) maybe add a poster or some stickers... add some non-Free for-pay textures? |
| 06:21.50 | a_meteorite | look at mysql, ruskie |
| 06:21.52 | whodaman- | [22:00] <CBG> whodaman: why not google "hamachi"... geez. I expected better from you. |
| 06:21.59 | ruskie | a_meteorite, different licenses |
| 06:22.00 | whodaman- | heh, I didn't eve SEE that |
| 06:22.03 | ruskie | a_meteorite, they don't sell the gpl versio |
| 06:22.31 | ruskie | they sell it under their own commercial license |
| 06:22.56 | ruskie | since they can do so because they are the copyright holder |
| 06:24.20 | a_meteorite | ruskie: even the GPL allows selling, http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLCommercially |
| 06:24.36 | a_meteorite | it basically comes down to as long as the source is available |
| 06:25.05 | blast007 | X-Chat sells the windows version |
| 06:25.40 | a_meteorite | yeah |
| 06:25.51 | brlcad | the "right to sell" is one of the fundamental "free software" rights |
| 06:25.56 | ruskie | ups... |
| 06:25.58 | a_meteorite | and the LGPL is even more liberal than the GPL |
| 06:26.00 | brlcad | you can sell your software for whatever price |
| 06:26.08 | brlcad | regardless of GPL or LGPL |
| 06:26.59 | brlcad | the only restriction GPL has is that if you do sell GPL without also providing the sources simultaneously, you have to provide the sources when a written request for them is made (in which case you can only charge normal processing fees only) |
| 06:27.29 | brlcad | I don't recall if lgpl kept that restriction, but it's pretty minor/irrelevant |
| 06:27.38 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (n=delusion@pool-71-253-24-117.pitbpa.east.verizon.net) |
| 06:27.56 | ruskie | it is necessary |
| 06:28.01 | ruskie | that's the point of all GNU licenses |
| 06:28.14 | brlcad | eh, reference to that claim? |
| 06:28.39 | brlcad | right to sell is commented on here: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html |
| 06:28.58 | brlcad | (and it only refers to gpl for the reasonable fees) |
| 06:29.37 | brlcad | the more important issue is that you still have to provide the sources regardless for the GPL or LGPL code, so the price tends to be reduced to one of user convenience |
| 06:30.14 | brlcad | like what OpenBSD does -- they only make for-sale binary distribution CDs |
| 06:30.19 | ruskie | brlcad, simple.. the lgpl only excludes certain parts of the gpl... |
| 06:30.27 | brlcad | but you can still of course get the sources |
| 06:31.10 | brlcad | ruskie: your claim was it's the point of all GNU licenses .. that's rather bunk as there are several GNU licenses that are not free software licenses |
| 06:32.04 | brlcad | and the LGPL doesn't "just" exclude certain parts per the terms, though it can be explained in layman's terms that way |
| 06:32.31 | brlcad | it's a full-blown license with its own terms, not a subset license with explicit exemptions |
| 06:33.35 | ruskie | http://paste.sarcelle.net/0ebc94f404.html |
| 06:33.41 | ruskie | from: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/lgpl.txt |
| 06:35.03 | ruskie | but for a boxed set of bzflag with some extra goodies... I'd pay some 30eur... but then... wouldn't it be better to just donate such an ammount directly? |
| 06:36.32 | pacman87 | anyone have experience compiling 2.0 on windows? (MSVC8) |
| 06:36.50 | brlcad | ruskie: now you're mixing several different issues up too... |
| 06:36.57 | blast007 | pacman87: ask the question ;) |
| 06:37.16 | brlcad | that snippet is not relevant, refers to a specific term they're defining |
| 06:37.30 | brlcad | also there's a (huge) difference between LGPL v3 and v2 |
| 06:37.44 | ruskie | brlcad, well it is before 0800 so I'm still half asleep... |
| 06:37.59 | brlcad | v2 is the full license, v3 did become a "superset" license with additional terms |
| 06:38.06 | pacman87 | blast007: i'm gettting a lot of "unresolved external symbol" errors |
| 06:38.33 | brlcad | one of several notable complaints about v3 |
| 06:38.34 | blast007 | pacman87: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz |
| 06:38.43 | pacman87 | blast007: how much do you want? |
| 06:38.59 | brlcad | he wants it all |
| 06:39.04 | pacman87 | 690 lines of build output? |
| 06:39.09 | blast007 | sure |
| 06:39.44 | pacman87 | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m17416109 |
| 06:39.55 | ruskie | brlcad, http://paste.sarcelle.net/2e5fba8eb1.html <-- point and match... as pasted from lgplv2 |
| 06:40.48 | blast007 | pacman87: your platform SDK isn't set up right |
| 06:40.55 | ruskie | http://paste.sarcelle.net/102a3b356f.html <-- and a further bit |
| 06:41.06 | pacman87 | blast007: i can compile 2.99 no problems |
| 06:42.09 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumTim (n=tim@62-249-230-206.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 06:42.11 | ruskie | brlcad, the point of all GNU licenses is that they make sure the user get's the source code |
| 06:42.23 | pacman87 | i have the platform SDK dirs in the include and library sections |
| 06:44.08 | blast007 | maybe try building "Release" instead of "Release_pdcurses" |
| 06:45.41 | pacman87 | ok, i'll give it a shot. i'm working with the 2.0.10 release right now, but i've tried both releases with svn latest 2.0 branch without success |
| 06:46.18 | blast007 | another thing to try would be the VC71 project files |
| 06:46.52 | pacman87 | update from there? |
| 06:47.01 | ruskie | to early in the morning for the legal bits... |
| 06:47.03 | blast007 | yeah |
| 06:47.24 | blast007 | for 2.0.x, VC7.1 was used for builds mainly |
| 06:47.36 | pacman87 | i'm compiling release atm |
| 06:47.40 | blast007 | k |
| 06:48.10 | ruskie | hmm but that also reminds me... will there ever be a switch to lgplv3? or gplv3? or not? |
| 06:48.17 | pacman87 | probably be another 20 min |
| 06:48.27 | pacman87 | but i'm already seeing the same errors |
| 06:49.04 | pacman87 | never mind about the 20 min, (Build: 6 succeeded, 3 failed, 11 up-to-date, 0 skipped), nothing improved |
| 06:49.29 | blast007 | heh |
| 06:50.27 | pacman87 | GDI+ is not properly initialized (internal GDI+ error). |
| 06:50.28 | brlcad | ruskie: you must just be talking right past me or aren't paying attention to what I said |
| 06:51.03 | brlcad | that doesn't contradict a single thing I said (and that's from the preamble and not the license itself) |
| 06:51.55 | ruskie | brlcad, sorry I'm still half asleep... |
| 06:52.07 | brlcad | again, you said _GNU_ licenses, which is different than saying the "GPL-based" licenses .. which is just those two |
| 06:52.52 | brlcad | if you're still asleep, then why do you keep pasting snippets defensively :) |
| 06:53.18 | ruskie | completly automatic behaviour |
| 06:53.29 | ruskie | and there is also agpl now :) |
| 06:53.42 | pacman87 | blast007: no luck on the 7.1 - i can't open int |
| 06:53.48 | pacman87 | s/int/it |
| 06:54.52 | brlcad | fair enough, agpl - hadn't heard of them |
| 06:55.36 | ruskie | it's specific for SaaS stuff |
| 06:58.51 | ruskie | it doesn't limit to what the app can link to... it limits what things can link to the app |
| 06:59.53 | hwilde | that is like the google maps api |
| 06:59.57 | *** join/#bzflag bier (n=bier@p54A55623.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:00.01 | hwilde | it can link into anything, but not anything can link into it |
| 07:00.35 | ruskie | erm... |
| 07:00.38 | ruskie | wha? |
| 07:07.25 | ruskie | I don't think I'm up to any more legal debates for today... seems to be one of those annoying days that just won't go away even with a ton of sleep... my brain is simply deadlocked... |
| 07:12.20 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 07:12.20 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 07:12.57 | hwilde | I advise you to start drinking heavily |
| 07:13.08 | *** join/#bzflag Gilly (n=btw@83.146.211.140) |
| 07:32.46 | *** join/#bzflag awilcox (n=4c1a007b@unaffiliated/awosdev) |
| 07:34.40 | awilcox | Hello to everyone here. Well I did it, I installed XP on the new quad-core. This solved most problems (BZF now knows I have a GeForce; Media Player works better; DX is happy) but not the networking problem; my firewall _still_ seems to be disabling bzflag from getting anywhere. I was able to manually open port 5154 on the firewall, but I still have upwards of 70ms of jitter. |
| 07:35.39 | awilcox | I found mention of "bzfrelay" on one of the many manpages I read, and it looked halfway promising, until I realised that 1) It is not in trunk/2.0 branch, and 2) it seems to be quite tied to the 1.x branch. |
| 07:36.27 | awilcox | So my question would be...is there something I missed? Another port I need to open? A manpage or HOWTO I skipped over while looking at Google results for "bzflag firewall"? |
| 07:40.03 | hwilde | awilcox, maybe its blocking udp |
| 07:42.56 | awilcox | hwilde: No, I enabled UDP Recieve/Send on port 5154 as well. |
| 07:43.42 | awilcox | Although I really have absolutely NO way to test it whatsoever. |
| 07:43.46 | hwilde | are you connecting locally ? |
| 07:43.59 | hwilde | I mean where's the server and where's the client |
| 07:44.02 | awilcox | hwilde: I'm connecting to bzf.bzflag.org, which is near to me |
| 07:44.14 | awilcox | hwilde: the server is somewhere in the US, the client is on my desk in Florida |
| 07:44.26 | awilcox | the firewall is _under_ my desk :P |
| 07:44.39 | hwilde | if you take out the firewall there is no jitter? |
| 07:44.45 | awilcox | That's correct. |
| 07:44.49 | hwilde | what kind of firewall |
| 07:44.51 | hwilde | don't say dlink |
| 07:45.01 | awilcox | But I really don't want to plug in an xp computer into the raw Internet =/ |
| 07:45.15 | hwilde | yeah who would |
| 07:45.17 | awilcox | hwilde: ummmmm. I will say the one thing more painful than d-link. Microsoft. |
| 07:45.23 | hwilde | ? |
| 07:45.25 | hwilde | what model |
| 07:45.26 | awilcox | it's a Microsoft firewall |
| 07:45.34 | awilcox | Internet Security and Acceleration 2000 |
| 07:46.13 | hwilde | jesus you are a masochist |
| 07:46.21 | awilcox | I am not! :( |
| 07:46.34 | hwilde | you know it's going to check every packet and then cache a bunch of crap trying to speed up your connection |
| 07:46.44 | hwilde | can you whitelist the ip of the server so it just lets the traffic through |
| 07:47.18 | awilcox | I suppose I could try that to test, but I'd rather not trust the IP of every bzf server I ever want to play on... |
| 07:48.50 | hwilde | you should look into what the 'acceleration' part of that thing is doing and turn it off |
| 07:48.58 | hwilde | it probably tries to cache and download stuff for you in the background |
| 07:49.01 | hwilde | thus causing your jitter |
| 07:49.45 | awilcox | hwilde: I have looked into the acceleration part, it is (basically) reniced to not use any net traffic |
| 07:49.57 | awilcox | (like BITS, it only does it when the network is completely idle.) |
| 07:50.29 | hwilde | you would be better off with zone alarms software firewall |
| 07:50.34 | hwilde | then just allow the bz traffic |
| 07:51.20 | awilcox | I tried ZoneAlarm once, and it still allowed hackers through. |
| 07:51.35 | awilcox | It royally failed Steve Gibson's ShieldsUP! test. |
| 07:51.47 | hwilde | lol and that 8 year old microsoft product makes you feel safe ?? |
| 07:52.07 | awilcox | hwilde: well at least it actually filters >_> |
| 07:52.08 | hwilde | you'd be better off with a cheap linux box and iptables |
| 07:52.24 | hwilde | I forgot how scary windows was lol |
| 07:52.41 | hwilde | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:53.02 | awilcox | hwilde: actually I fail at iptables. hard. when I tried it, first it wouldn't let ANYTHING through, and then afterwards it allowed too much through. and I didn't find a way to disable ICMP, either. |
| 07:53.27 | hwilde | hmm |
| 07:53.46 | hwilde | I use cisco firewalls and linux os so I don't really know what to tell you |
| 07:54.16 | hwilde | I bet if you whitelist the ip it will take care of the jitter |
| 07:54.16 | awilcox | I'm not a novice to network security, I know that the word "microsoft" normally triggers fear and insecurity among most people...but configured right, this Internet Security and Acceleration thing really does do a good job of protecting a network |
| 07:54.28 | hwilde | oh it seems like it is doing a good job |
| 07:54.33 | hwilde | but it's just not fast enough for your gaming |
| 07:54.34 | awilcox | so much so that bzf doesn't even work D= |
| 07:55.00 | awilcox | Yeah, I will try whitelisting the IP and see if that helps. |
| 07:55.12 | hwilde | it must be inspecting and accelerating every packet |
| 07:55.23 | hwilde | 70ms isn't really that much delay if it's actually doing work |
| 07:55.28 | hwilde | but for realtime gaming that hurts |
| 07:55.37 | hwilde | probably wouldn't even notice it in any other application |
| 07:55.41 | awilcox | Thank you for at least attempting to help me. That's more than a lot of people will do after I tell them what firewall I use. |
| 07:55.58 | awilcox | hwilde: heh, and 70ms was worst -- most of the time it stayed at 30ms jitter, which still kicks me.. |
| 07:56.25 | hwilde | that is really quite reasonable |
| 07:56.36 | awilcox | I thought so. |
| 07:56.37 | hwilde | you want it to inspect all your traffic but instantaneously ? |
| 07:57.37 | awilcox | Heh, just for bz. |
| 08:01.27 | *** join/#bzflag awilcox (n=4c1a007b@unaffiliated/awosdev) |
| 08:01.38 | awilcox | hwilde: still 38ms jitter :( |
| 09:01.19 | *** join/#bzflag bier (n=bier@p54A55623.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:09.00 | *** join/#bzflag cjhopman (n=cjhopman@24-183-44-113.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 09:17.05 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@134.106.59.204) |
| 09:17.16 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@134.106.59.204) |
| 09:22.51 | *** join/#bzflag PrezzKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130) |
| 10:01.55 | *** join/#bzflag Upsetter (n=Upsetter@i577B7C0F.versanet.de) |
| 10:07.00 | *** join/#bzflag utrrrongeeb (n=mhciipec@ties-pool3-18.isn.net) |
| 10:16.11 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumT1m (n=tim@62-249-230-206.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 10:38.54 | ts | Does anyone know how I can locally set up an ignore rule for a irc:cgi user= |
| 10:39.04 | ts | s/=/?/ |
| 10:43.57 | hwilde | what client ? |
| 10:46.30 | ts | That one: knoxcorner [n=477b8744@bz.bzflag.bz] has quit "CGI:IRC (EOF)" |
| 10:47.00 | hwilde | can't you just /ignore knoxcorner |
| 10:47.31 | ts | What is when he changes nick? |
| 10:47.53 | hwilde | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:48.06 | hwilde | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:48.45 | hwilde | that CGI:IRC message is just his quit string |
| 10:48.49 | hwilde | so I don't think you can rule on that |
| 10:49.21 | ts | Umm, I want to ignore it when the IP-Adress is equal in all numbers but the last. |
| 10:50.12 | ts | Is a 1 == 01 or just 1 in hexa? |
| 10:50.36 | hwilde | in IP it will be .1 |
| 10:50.52 | hwilde | technically in hex it is 0x1 |
| 10:51.19 | hwilde | you can /ignore *@192.168.0.* where those are his ip numbers |
| 10:52.18 | ts | Hmm.. |
| 10:52.58 | ts | /ignore 477b87*@bz.bzflag.bz will work? |
| 10:53.14 | hwilde | yeah but that's his hostname not his IP |
| 10:53.33 | hwilde | that is user-specified |
| 10:53.41 | ts | His IP-adress is the hex part |
| 10:54.11 | ts | The web client uses that as user specified part |
| 10:54.33 | hwilde | oh that's pretty cool |
| 10:54.42 | hwilde | yeah you can put the wildcard wherever you want |
| 10:54.47 | hwilde | you should probably put another at the beginning |
| 10:55.00 | hwilde | *477b87*@bz.bzflag.bz |
| 10:55.13 | hwilde | he probly uses the nick knoxcorner all the time tho so that should be enough |
| 10:55.26 | ts | Just wanted to make sure I'm not ignoring too many people. |
| 10:55.42 | ts | Thanks for the help hwilde |
| 10:55.48 | hwilde | well you would be ignoreing anybody else from his network |
| 10:57.11 | hwilde | if you type "/who bz.bzflag.bz" you're the only one from that network |
| 10:58.56 | *** join/#bzflag ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 10:58.56 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/#bzflag || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || 2.0.10 is the latest public release || GSoC 2008 is on, join #gsoc if you're interested in participating (mentors and students) http://tanks4code.blogspot.com/ |
| 10:58.56 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 11:00.41 | *** join/#bzflag ViciousM (n=max@cpe-024-211-248-161.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 11:23.53 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-113-160-012.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 11:27.46 | jorgenpt | ts: I think you can ignore 477b97??@* |
| 11:39.18 | *** join/#bzflag cl0aked (n=pulse@189.71.66.121) |
| 11:39.41 | cl0aked | hey all ;D |
| 11:41.48 | cl0aked | brlcad: hey! :D |
| 12:17.29 | Winny | ts: was be bugging you too? |
| 12:17.35 | Winny | was he* |
| 12:28.31 | Winny | hwilde: ugh |
| 12:28.37 | Winny | they banned you AGAIN? |
| 12:28.39 | Winny | :/ |
| 12:53.01 | *** join/#bzflag Scream (n=543ead41@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 12:53.56 | *** join/#bzflag lepoulpe303 (n=LePoulpe@about/essy/MobileTarget/LePoulpe303) |
| 12:54.54 | *** join/#bzflag bz44 (n=543ead41@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 12:59.06 | *** join/#bzflag lepoulpe303 (n=LePoulpe@about/essy/MobileTarget/LePoulpe303) |
| 13:04.26 | *** join/#bzflag lepoulpe303 (n=LePoulpe@about/essy/MobileTarget/LePoulpe303) |
| 13:36.21 | *** join/#bzflag newbie8787 (i=newbie87@122.168.9.102) |
| 13:47.36 | newbie8787 | is nobody talking here?? or i just cant see whats going on? |
| 13:47.51 | whodaman- | We're here |
| 13:47.53 | Winny | We're all sleeping |
| 13:47.59 | Winny | Nothing to talk about :) |
| 13:48.03 | whodaman- | but most people just leave their IRC clients on while they're gone |
| 13:48.18 | newbie8787 | ohhh , time zone!! |
| 13:48.23 | newbie8787 | i m in india |
| 13:48.26 | newbie8787 | so am wide awake |
| 13:48.27 | Winny | oi |
| 13:48.44 | newbie8787 | yes winny? |
| 13:49.02 | whodaman- | I don't think we've had too many folk from India here before :) |
| 13:49.33 | newbie8787 | i was wondering weather someone could help me figure out weather i have what it takes to be in the GsoC prog for bzflag~ |
| 13:49.40 | newbie8787 | really? |
| 13:49.49 | newbie8787 | i thought u might have some atleast! |
| 13:49.52 | brlcad | and least few that stay, you're certainly not the first ;) |
| 13:50.04 | newbie8787 | but its not a real surprise |
| 13:50.23 | newbie8787 | maybe , i definiteley wanna stay |
| 13:50.33 | newbie8787 | but i dont know what it takes~ |
| 13:50.54 | newbie8787 | i was wondering if there is any prerequisite list that one can refer to? |
| 13:51.09 | brlcad | not so specific, it's not like that |
| 13:51.10 | newbie8787 | or something to the effect |
| 13:51.24 | newbie8787 | k thn ill tell you what i have done |
| 13:51.36 | newbie8787 | as a project |
| 13:51.40 | brlcad | the intent is attracting people that are interested in "joining the team" particularly beyond the scope of gsoc |
| 13:52.08 | newbie8787 | brclad ??? you are Sean? |
| 13:52.16 | brlcad | so that really begs good communication skills, a strong willingness and interest to learn, some decent technical background |
| 13:52.20 | brlcad | newbie8787: yep |
| 13:52.42 | Gilly | brlcad: a side note - i'm not dead btw :) i intend to continue on bzrobots sooner or later... it's just i'm having exams and got addicted to haskell :P |
| 13:52.59 | brlcad | Gilly: I hadn't lost all hope just yet :) |
| 13:53.04 | brlcad | life happens ;) |
| 13:53.27 | Winny | what's life? |
| 13:53.31 | brlcad | mm.. haskell bots |
| 13:53.37 | Gilly | yea :) i just got my implicit plotter software in haskell to beta stage: http://btw.blobtrox.net/~btw/plotter.png :P |
| 13:53.51 | newbie8787 | i have pretty good comm skills, i want to get into game design and there are few professional courses here (except in the IITs), so i dont know about the tech background part |
| 13:54.10 | brlcad | Gilly: nifty -- what's the code look like? |
| 13:54.12 | Gilly | implicit plotter means i can specify sets of points that satisfy some condition, and what's more, i can use plotted curves to derive new ones |
| 13:54.21 | newbie8787 | and i do intend to learn! but good instruction is really scarce |
| 13:55.12 | Gilly | brlcad: for this specific plot: http://btw.blobtrox.net/~btw/Plot.hs |
| 13:55.38 | Gilly | it's not very clear because it's just for testing purposes and may include lotsa stuff that's not used anywhere |
| 13:55.59 | Gilly | and i intend to make it nicer in terms of syntax now that the engine is somewhat working |
| 13:56.20 | brlcad | newbie8787: what I suggest just for getting started is to hang out on irc .. most of us "live" on irc 24/7 or something close to it .. and we can often get a sense for how well new individuals will socially work out as new devs just from a couple weeks interaction |
| 13:56.22 | newbie8787 | brlcad : well i am interested in getting into the development team for bzflag , but once again , the repetitive question ! what do i "need to know" |
| 13:56.31 | newbie8787 | like some specific API |
| 13:56.39 | newbie8787 | or engine |
| 13:56.45 | brlcad | newbie8787: that totally depends on a project you have in mind |
| 13:57.16 | brlcad | C++ skills are a huge plus given that's the vast majority of our codebase, but some other languages have been known to surface |
| 13:57.23 | brlcad | newbie8787: have you seen our wiki? |
| 13:57.48 | Winny | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code/2008 There's some of the proposal ideas so far |
| 13:57.50 | brlcad | Gilly: very nice ... |
| 13:57.56 | newbie8787 | brlcad : i read a lot on your wiki and the links on Gsoc and it said a lot about the fact that the code should confirm to the existent system |
| 13:58.19 | brlcad | it needs to be long-term maintainable |
| 13:58.28 | Gilly | brlcad: thanks :) |
| 13:58.38 | brlcad | which means something we can keep, something we *want* to keep, .. |
| 13:59.09 | brlcad | I guess this "ContourPlot" object is doing the heavy lifting? |
| 13:59.09 | newbie8787 | brlcad : well i do know my fair bit of C++ and have developed a small 3d game using C++ and Irrlicht , but thats about all the experience i have in the field |
| 13:59.43 | ts | Winny: Guess why I want to ignore my client messages from him :) |
| 13:59.53 | Winny | ts :) |
| 13:59.56 | Gilly | brlcad: ParametricPlot and ContourPlot are the two supplied plot types, ContourPlot is one that plots the curve that's formed when we look at the points that satisfy condition f(P) = 0 for some function f |
| 14:00.16 | newbie8787 | brlcad : also i was trying to find last years project list , but i was not able to find it anywhere? |
| 14:00.20 | Gilly | brlcad: ParametricPlot otoh plots a function f(t) = P when t goes through some range |
| 14:00.27 | brlcad | newbie8787: a word of caution if you're leaning towards the 3D engine integration -- it's one of the outright hardest project ideas so to accept it, the application has to be outright outstanding in order to come close to completion in the gsoc timeframe |
| 14:00.39 | brlcad | newbie8787: it's all up on the wiki |
| 14:00.45 | Gilly | brlcad: both result segment approximations of the curves that are easy to work with later - we can get distances to these approximations, intersections etc. |
| 14:00.46 | brlcad | drop off the /2008 |
| 14:02.17 | brlcad | Gilly: are they haskell built-ins? rather, the "Plotter" package you imported -- is that something you wrote or some base library haskell provides ala java? |
| 14:02.33 | Gilly | brlcad: plotter is something i wrote myself |
| 14:02.34 | brlcad | not incredibly familiar with haskell |
| 14:02.50 | brlcad | ah, okay, so you've implemented those Plot types as well |
| 14:02.54 | Gilly | yes :) |
| 14:02.58 | brlcad | gotcha |
| 14:03.15 | newbie8787 | brlcad : any chance that you may help me out with the exact link to the list? (sorry if i am being clingy) |
| 14:03.39 | brlcad | newbie8787: drop off the /2008 |
| 14:03.52 | Gilly | brlcad: i did use a graphics library for some lowlevel things like drawLine and savePng, though :P |
| 14:03.54 | brlcad | then look at 2007 section |
| 14:04.05 | *** join/#bzflag Tedius (n=Tedius@musictech.MUSC.CWRU.Edu) |
| 14:04.15 | newbie8787 | brlcad : ok |
| 14:04.18 | newbie8787 | will do |
| 14:06.31 | short_circuit | meh |
| 14:06.34 | short_circuit | time for work |
| 14:06.39 | Winny | :) |
| 14:06.41 | short_circuit | seems like i was just there yesterday |
| 14:06.42 | brlcad | be happy I pulled an all-nighter, otherwise I'm rather (more) grumpy in the morning ;) |
| 14:06.43 | short_circuit | :( |
| 14:07.06 | brlcad | short_circuit: heh, well crank up some beastie boys along the way ;) |
| 14:07.12 | short_circuit | LOL |
| 14:07.20 | brlcad | you gotta fight |
| 14:07.23 | brlcad | for your right |
| 14:07.24 | Winny | that's angry music |
| 14:07.39 | short_circuit | Actually I been enjoing lots of those mashups that have been popular lately |
| 14:07.42 | short_circuit | anywho |
| 14:07.45 | short_circuit | gotta go |
| 14:07.54 | Winny | hf |
| 14:13.50 | newbie8787 | can i ask a few questions not related to bzflag herE? |
| 14:13.58 | newbie8787 | would someone mind? |
| 14:15.21 | brlcad | depends just how far off-topic you go |
| 14:15.42 | brlcad | if it has anything to do with your cat, it's probably too far ;) |
| 14:17.03 | *** part/#bzflag lepoulpe303 (n=LePoulpe@about/essy/MobileTarget/LePoulpe303) |
| 14:17.14 | newbie8787 | well not exactly , actually this is the first time i am running any irc client on Xp (normally i use linux) i have ZoneAlarm installed and for some reason it just refuses to allow mirc or leaf chat to connect to any irc server |
| 14:17.27 | newbie8787 | i gave it all the permissions |
| 14:17.34 | newbie8787 | but it just wont work |
| 14:17.42 | newbie8787 | i finally had to shut it down |
| 14:18.41 | newbie8787 | any thoughts as to why this may be happening? |
| 14:18.44 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
| 14:19.04 | newbie8787 | brclad :any thoughts as to why this may be happening? |
| 14:19.26 | brlcad | heh, wow .. a little patience there ;) |
| 14:20.06 | Winny | how come you're using XP? |
| 14:20.07 | newbie8787 | kk , sorry |
| 14:20.11 | brlcad | that's the sort of question that one usually asks and give it a while for a response (like a few hours, maybe asking at a diff time of day if no response) |
| 14:20.41 | newbie8787 | winny : should i not be? |
| 14:21.10 | newbie8787 | brlcad : maybe i'll just post it on some forum |
| 14:21.28 | Winny | Just figured if you have to disable your firewall to use IRC, perhaps you should go back to linx until you figure it out ;) |
| 14:21.56 | brlcad | newbie8787: ... did you try searching for the answer |
| 14:22.08 | newbie8787 | brlcad : i was wondering what the deliverables will be if i wish to go ahead with the 3d engine Integration? |
| 14:22.18 | newbie8787 | brlcad : i googled it yes |
| 14:22.19 | Winny | a ha! http://byronmiller.typepad.com/byronmiller/2005/10/zonealarm_block.html |
| 14:22.29 | brlcad | I don't use xp or zonealarm but found the answer fairly quickly if it's true: IM Security - Settings - Advanced - Uncheck Block IRC |
| 14:23.00 | newbie8787 | i tried that |
| 14:23.06 | newbie8787 | doesnt work :( |
| 14:23.15 | Winny | newbie8787: I believe a couple devs were leaning towards Orge.. although I'm not sure if that's been decided yet |
| 14:23.36 | newbie8787 | brlcad :i guess you are referring to the techforums pade |
| 14:23.44 | brlcad | newbie8787: determining deliverable is forumulated over several days |
| 14:24.10 | newbie8787 | brlcad : just a sketch , not the exact ones |
| 14:24.30 | brlcad | again, the graphics engine is one of the very hardest topics we've put up there .. it has to be an *outstanding* submission to even be considered |
| 14:25.11 | newbie8787 | * sorry techforums page |
| 14:25.17 | brlcad | nor that |
| 14:25.53 | newbie8787 | ok , i found what you had suggested on the page and..... it didnt work :( |
| 14:26.10 | Winny | perhaps you need to reboot? |
| 14:26.43 | newbie8787 | meaning the complete working game , developed using a 3d engine? |
| 14:27.05 | brlcad | huh? |
| 14:27.20 | newbie8787 | never mind , wrong window |
| 14:30.44 | newbie8787 | well, thaks for the info , see ya |
| 14:30.48 | *** part/#bzflag newbie8787 (i=newbie87@122.168.9.102) |
| 14:41.10 | *** join/#bzflag pacman_87 (n=timothy@nat-205-72.arlut.utexas.edu) |
| 14:44.25 | hwilde | Winny, yeah, again. amazing huh. can't wait for 3.0 |
| 14:44.46 | Winny | hwilde, was it whammo again? |
| 14:44.56 | hwilde | yeah he says he has all the proof he needs |
| 14:44.58 | hwilde | I would love to see this |
| 14:45.08 | whodaman | .. |
| 14:45.09 | whodaman | Nice |
| 14:45.11 | Winny | *sigh* |
| 14:45.17 | whodaman | hwilde, is it because you have a compiled client or something? |
| 14:45.35 | Winny | whodaman, if he runs a clientquery and sees "LINUX-DEVEL" he bans the person |
| 14:45.37 | Winny | instantly |
| 14:45.39 | hwilde | doesn't mater, i've tried compiled client, normal client binary from dowload, whatevs |
| 14:45.46 | whodaman | ..... |
| 14:45.47 | hwilde | no he says I am cheating because my gms turn to fast |
| 14:45.48 | whodaman | nice admin |
| 14:45.55 | hwilde | he's just a sore loser because I kill him repeatedly |
| 14:46.03 | hwilde | badgerking keeps unbanning me |
| 14:46.07 | whodaman | heh... |
| 14:46.07 | hwilde | you think whammo would get the point |
| 14:46.16 | Winny | I've tried to explain to him, its a devel;opment build, and he goes "no its cheating trust me shut up noob" |
| 14:46.26 | whodaman | right |
| 14:46.38 | hwilde | no I played on my old laptop on the standard 2.0.8 client |
| 14:46.38 | whodaman | does he know what a COMPILEd client is? |
| 14:46.42 | hwilde | it doesn't even have a high fps |
| 14:46.47 | hwilde | he just takes it personal |
| 14:46.57 | Winny | hwilde, what's your IP? |
| 14:47.12 | Winny | and I reccomend playing under a different name |
| 14:47.17 | Winny | and see if he bugs you |
| 14:48.36 | Winny | or did he ban your callsign? |
| 14:49.21 | Winny | hwilde ^ |
| 14:53.30 | *** join/#bzflag Dessy (n=Dessy@88-134-204-43-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 14:54.39 | *** join/#bzflag nn64 (n=nn@74.94.43.196) |
| 14:55.23 | hwilde | umm |
| 14:55.29 | hwilde | I dunno what is my ip |
| 14:55.38 | hwilde | let me check |
| 14:55.47 | hwilde | the nicknames he banned are hw* and "mind your own business" |
| 14:55.58 | whodaman | http://whatismyip.org/ |
| 14:56.02 | Winny | I can't see the banfile, its so lng is crashes the client.. heh |
| 14:56.16 | whodaman | nice.. |
| 14:56.35 | hwilde | I guess this is my IP: (pool-68-162-176-12.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 14:56.46 | hwilde | 68.162.176.12 |
| 14:57.09 | Winny | tried that IP already |
| 14:57.11 | Winny | didn't work :/ |
| 14:57.18 | hwilde | I was playing under a different callsign |
| 14:57.23 | hwilde | on a different machine |
| 14:57.28 | hwilde | on a different client version |
| 14:57.33 | hwilde | on a different internet connection |
| 14:57.44 | Winny | thats... helpful |
| 14:57.48 | hwilde | that's how I know it's just personal |
| 14:57.54 | hwilde | it was my old laptop on 2.0.8 client |
| 14:58.03 | Winny | from now on play under a different name |
| 14:58.04 | hwilde | it doesn't evne have the high fps issue that maybe is misinterpreted like some advantage |
| 14:58.07 | Winny | and see if he bans you. |
| 14:58.08 | hwilde | but I've had fpslimit set |
| 14:58.50 | hwilde | I would love to see this proof |
| 14:58.57 | hwilde | if it's my video card it's just going to get worse as more ppl buy faster hardware |
| 14:59.31 | Winny | He's probably seeing things |
| 14:59.39 | hwilde | he's seeing my gms in his face |
| 15:00.15 | Winny | hehe |
| 15:00.15 | *** join/#bzflag quantumdot (n=jmlopez@about/essy/Charm/quantumdot) |
| 15:00.37 | quantumdot | hey Winny |
| 15:00.44 | Winny | hellos |
| 15:01.17 | hwilde | Winny, it still is banned if you think it is undone |
| 15:01.39 | Winny | I ran an unban on that IP and it didn't work |
| 15:01.47 | hwilde | probably the whole subnet |
| 15:01.55 | Winny | ioi |
| 15:01.59 | whodaman | . |
| 15:02.20 | hwilde | REFUSED:cheating by WHAMMO! |
| 15:02.27 | Winny | nope... the only hostbans are by me :p |
| 15:02.46 | whodaman | wow |
| 15:02.59 | Winny | and I don't really want to run /banlist.. since the client goes *boom* |
| 15:03.00 | hwilde | it's the two most recent in the list, one from friday and one from saturday |
| 15:03.16 | whodaman | how do You know there aren't others? |
| 15:03.16 | hwilde | do 68.162.176.* |
| 15:03.23 | Winny | or not.. he cleaned it up.. yay |
| 15:03.41 | hwilde | bc there just isn't a lot of cheating going on |
| 15:03.51 | whodaman | heh.. |
| 15:03.55 | whodaman | easy to assume that, dude |
| 15:03.59 | hwilde | ther'es just one admin with some personal issues |
| 15:04.01 | hwilde | lol |
| 15:04.13 | Winny | heh, the whole banlist is like |
| 15:04.21 | Winny | banned by WHAMMO!! reason: CHEATING |
| 15:04.39 | hwilde | I want to get his IP and buy server space in the same ISP and bounce my connection through there |
| 15:04.58 | Winny | lol... |
| 15:05.06 | Winny | banned by WHAMMO! reason: jerk! |
| 15:05.20 | hwilde | can you see realtime login attempts? |
| 15:05.27 | Winny | nope |
| 15:05.33 | Winny | where are you logging in from? This machine? |
| 15:05.38 | hwilde | ja |
| 15:06.12 | Winny | try now |
| 15:06.38 | hwilde | that one did it |
| 15:06.45 | hwilde | can't you still see my hostname as hw tho |
| 15:06.52 | hwilde | even if I blank out the email string |
| 15:07.39 | Winny | what? |
| 15:08.08 | Winny | Your hostname is independant of your callsign... |
| 15:08.20 | hwilde | yeah so when you look up my IP and hostname what do you see |
| 15:08.35 | hwilde | I need to recompile in anonymous mode or something |
| 15:09.42 | Winny | just don't bring attention to yourself |
| 15:09.51 | Winny | and don't pick an obvious name |
| 15:09.55 | Winny | like "leave me be" |
| 15:10.07 | Winny | oh wait |
| 15:10.10 | hwilde | it says "anonymous" |
| 15:10.24 | hwilde | but i'm saying if you lookup my hostname does it say hw |
| 15:10.27 | Winny | that's coogle, not you... :p |
| 15:10.30 | hwilde | because it's pretty obvious then |
| 15:10.32 | Winny | you were mind your own business |
| 15:10.52 | hwilde | that's my guleague registered nick |
| 15:10.58 | Winny | why would it say hw? |
| 15:11.04 | hwilde | because of my hostname |
| 15:11.19 | hwilde | when you lookup my whois what do you see |
| 15:11.41 | Winny | hostban is not related to your BZ callsign, really |
| 15:11.47 | Winny | you can COMPARE hostnames of players |
| 15:12.16 | hwilde | yes if you read my question carefully you will see that is the point of my question |
| 15:12.19 | hwilde | what |
| 15:12.20 | hwilde | is |
| 15:12.20 | hwilde | my |
| 15:12.21 | hwilde | hostnma |
| 15:12.24 | Winny | pool-68-162-176-12.pitt.east.verizon.net |
| 15:12.33 | hwilde | not hwilde@ that ? |
| 15:12.44 | Winny | no.. |
| 15:12.48 | hwilde | it doesn't say hw or hw900 or hwilde or anything similar? |
| 15:12.55 | hwilde | so the only way he could know is if he memorized my ip |
| 15:13.04 | Winny | or he searched the logs |
| 15:13.10 | ts | What I worry about whether it's "good" style. |
| 15:13.14 | ts | oops |
| 15:13.16 | Winny | just, lay low, pick a non-obvious name |
| 15:13.22 | Winny | and see if he bugs you |
| 15:13.34 | hwilde | ok I will play on my laptop only for bk |
| 15:19.21 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=short_ci@adsl-70-240-225-248.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 15:22.29 | spldart | hehe |
| 15:28.08 | *** join/#bzflag brianutterback (n=blu@nat/sun/x-b56c81cf07b6f7fb) |
| 15:28.29 | brlcad | my, that is a mouthful |
| 15:28.51 | Winny | yeah, I can't say bee arrrr ell cad either |
| 15:29.14 | brlcad | arrr |
| 15:30.22 | *** join/#bzflag Upsetter (n=Upsetter@i59F7FB87.versanet.de) |
| 15:36.36 | hwilde | I always think that he is saying "spelled" art |
| 15:36.42 | hwilde | like somebody keeps spelling his name wrong |
| 15:36.46 | hwilde | it's spelled art! |
| 15:36.57 | Winny | lol |
| 15:37.09 | hwilde | the other one is "barrel" cad |
| 15:37.13 | hwilde | like on a gun |
| 15:37.22 | Winny | burl card! |
| 15:37.41 | hwilde | and of course, ToughShooter |
| 15:38.19 | Pimpinella | Winny: you're running bzflagr, don't you? |
| 15:38.27 | Winny | Pimpinella: correct |
| 15:38.27 | brlcad | spilled dart |
| 15:38.41 | hwilde | that is like too many sillables |
| 15:38.53 | Winny | Pimpinella: did I do something? :p |
| 15:39.13 | whodaman | hehe |
| 15:39.45 | Pimpinella | Winny: chris10184 wan't you to know that according to his impression your whitelist doesn't work |
| 15:39.53 | Winny | I never understoof why we abbreaviate to www when we talk |
| 15:40.05 | Winny | doubleyou doubleyou doubleyou have more sillyballs then world wide web |
| 15:40.13 | Winny | yeah, I need to fix that |
| 15:40.16 | Pimpinella | k |
| 15:40.18 | Winny | did someone ban him again? >_< |
| 15:40.23 | Winny | think_tank: stop that |
| 15:41.05 | quantumdot | Winny: in spanish we say "wa wa wa" :) |
| 15:42.34 | hwilde | don't you say dub trace |
| 15:42.56 | *** join/#bzflag KTL (n=KTL@213.219.144.106.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net) |
| 15:43.39 | whodaman | heh |
| 15:44.03 | hwilde | hope its a hungryman |
| 15:44.08 | hwilde | those commercials are so funny |
| 15:44.36 | hwilde | two pounds of beef, one pound of macncheese... and some broccoli |
| 15:44.43 | hwilde | like stop kidding yourself with the vegetable mmk |
| 15:49.06 | spldart | I know spilled nuffan |
| 15:49.58 | *** join/#bzflag hobbsc (n=hobbsc@ip70-178-55-100.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 15:51.24 | *** join/#bzflag Upsette1 (n=Upsetter@i577B70C0.versanet.de) |
| 15:56.19 | *** part/#bzflag brianutterback (n=blu@nat/sun/x-b56c81cf07b6f7fb) |
| 16:03.15 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@70.1.38.95) |
| 16:03.15 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:03.15 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r16673 10/trunk/web/submitimages/ (8 files in 2 dirs): Get rid of the last bit of MySQL that was used for the queue table, and use SQLite instead. |
| 16:03.29 | Winny | ~blast007++ |
| 16:05.01 | blast007 | if someone wants to test the crap out of the upload portion and report any issues, I would really appreciate it: http://images.bzexcess.com/submitimages/ |
| 16:05.28 | blast007 | pfft |
| 16:05.31 | Winny | :p |
| 16:05.47 | blast007 | my script will abort before that finishes :) |
| 16:05.50 | blast007 | (I'd hope...) |
| 16:06.57 | Winny | oi |
| 16:07.01 | Winny | only 1024kb? :( |
| 16:07.16 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (n=QuantumB@adsl-074-164-165-199.sip.lft.bellsouth.net) |
| 16:07.37 | Winny | You're going to want to make that bigger, I imagine.. or at least let admins set exceptions on certain accounts |
| 16:07.57 | Winny | a 512x512 UV map on a 50x50 object doesn't look too good :) |
| 16:24.38 | *** join/#bzflag Upsette1 (n=Upsetter@i59F7C2F2.versanet.de) |
| 16:33.25 | Winny | someone should make a tron-themed map |
| 16:38.42 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=jbdigriz@209-203-68-2.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 16:38.42 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 16:41.03 | Winny | huge success! |
| 16:43.50 | Winny | still alive! |
| 16:47.56 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 16:52.00 | *** join/#bzflag mrmonday_ (n=mrmonday@fullcirclemagazine/communicationsmanager/mrmonday) |
| 16:54.18 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
| 16:55.36 | whodaman | howdy JeffM |
| 17:03.55 | JeffM | hi |
| 17:12.03 | *** join/#bzflag mrmonday (n=mrmonday@fullcirclemagazine/communicationsmanager/mrmonday) |
| 17:12.04 | TimRiker | got an email saying there was a server up with inappropriate naming. did anyone do something about it? I don't see what the email was talking about up now. |
| 17:12.28 | *** part/#bzflag mrmonday (n=mrmonday@fullcirclemagazine/communicationsmanager/mrmonday) |
| 17:12.53 | *** join/#bzflag RobertC_ (n=mrmonday@fullcirclemagazine/communicationsmanager/mrmonday) |
| 17:13.12 | Winny | TimRiker, what was the server's address? |
| 17:14.28 | TimRiker | email didn't say the ip or the name. |
| 17:14.40 | Winny | fun |
| 17:14.42 | TimRiker | not much to go on. :) |
| 17:14.51 | Winny | perhaps they were talking about "planet mofo"? |
| 17:15.12 | whodaman | heh |
| 17:15.20 | whodaman | Take 'em down |
| 17:15.46 | JBdiGriz | It was a complaint about pillbox, look out for those pushers. ;) |
| 17:15.48 | TimRiker | winny: I don't think that was it. the language was pretty vague, but I think that 'damn' was in the name. |
| 17:16.30 | Winny | "damn" .. heh |
| 17:17.12 | whodaman | was the email from DW? :P |
| 17:17.16 | Winny | hehe |
| 17:17.46 | JBdiGriz | So now we need 3 different server lists for "G", "PG-13", and "NC"? |
| 17:17.52 | ts | Hmm, I only know planet **** and the think different parady with racism |
| 17:18.42 | ts | parody* |
| 17:21.35 | JeffM | JBdiGriz, or just more info in the list item for each one ;) |
| 17:23.04 | JBdiGriz | JeffM: That could be a gsoc project (attempting to bring this somewhat on topic) |
| 17:23.29 | JeffM | yeah, it oculd be |
| 17:23.42 | JeffM | combine it with reding the in game list, and maybe |
| 17:23.49 | JeffM | dunno if it's 3 months work |
| 17:24.18 | JeffM | anyone know anything about shot salt? |
| 17:24.34 | JeffM | I need to unsalt a shot ID so I can turn it back into a slot ID |
| 17:27.22 | Chestal | JeffM: high byte should be salt, low byte slot id |
| 17:27.28 | JeffM | k |
| 17:27.42 | JeffM | so I can just ignore the higybyte, that makes that easier :) |
| 17:27.54 | Chestal | yeah, &255 should be fine |
| 17:28.33 | JeffM | it was funny, I forgot about the salt, and was having it reszie the shot array if the ID was out of range, ended up with a player tank with a very large number of shots ;) |
| 17:28.56 | *** join/#bzflag RobertC (n=mrmonday@fullcirclemagazine/communicationsmanager/mrmonday) |
| 17:29.13 | ts | There is no problem with the shadowed var in win32? |
| 17:29.23 | JeffM | we are not warned about them |
| 17:29.25 | Gilly | there is something bad about 'mofo'? I don't get it... |
| 17:29.27 | JeffM | where are some |
| 17:29.34 | JeffM | Gilly, what country do you live in? |
| 17:29.37 | Gilly | finland |
| 17:29.47 | Winny | Gilly: it's an abbreviation for a bad word :) |
| 17:29.54 | Gilly | oaah |
| 17:29.57 | Gilly | i think i got it now |
| 17:30.12 | Gilly | filesystem checkers? |
| 17:30.26 | JeffM | ts, where are there more shadows? |
| 17:30.30 | JeffM | help a brother out. |
| 17:30.42 | ts | JeffM: I'm first trying to build clean.. |
| 17:30.47 | JeffM | k |
| 17:30.53 | JeffM | well if oyu find any let me know |
| 17:30.55 | JeffM | or quick fix em |
| 17:31.22 | JeffM | windows dosn't show shadows, nix dosn't seem to show type size warnings.. everyone has there own trivialities |
| 17:35.39 | pacman_87 | JeffM: any more ideas on how to solve my "unresolved external symbol" errors? I tried 2.0.10, and had the same problems |
| 17:36.25 | whodaman | rofl |
| 17:36.27 | whodaman | err |
| 17:36.29 | whodaman | wrong window :p |
| 17:36.42 | JeffM | pacman_87, nope |
| 17:49.53 | JeffM | pacman_87, you are using VC8 or 9 EE? |
| 17:50.10 | pacman_87 | 8EE |
| 17:50.18 | JeffM | and you have the prolblem with both 2.x and trunk now? |
| 17:50.27 | pacman_87 | no, trunk is fine |
| 17:50.33 | KTL | "select a license" -> "i stole this" :D |
| 17:51.05 | JeffM | hmmm, odd |
| 17:51.06 | JeffM | pacman_87, is it a clean dir? |
| 17:51.27 | *** join/#bzflag hwilde (n=hwilde@pool-68-162-176-12.pitt.east.verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:51.27 | *** join/#bzflag pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:51.27 | *** join/#bzflag uso (n=uso@84-72-8-253.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:51.27 | *** join/#bzflag ruskie (i=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:51.27 | *** join/#bzflag donny_baker (n=joevano@about/essy/vvvvv/donnybaker) |
| 17:51.27 | *** join/#bzflag ElectricElf (n=dbharris@bas1-toronto48-1279295506.dsl.bell.ca) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:51.29 | pacman_87 | yes, i pulled 2.0.11 from svn, and 2.0.10 from the sourceforge .zip |
| 17:52.29 | JeffM | we didn't realy make a true effort to ensure that we ran on EE till trunk |
| 17:52.30 | pacman_87 | googling some of the symbols tells me i need to add advapi32.lib |
| 17:52.37 | JeffM | ok |
| 17:52.39 | JeffM | so add it |
| 17:52.49 | pacman_87 | i'm not at my home machine |
| 17:53.20 | pacman_87 | and i've got to catch a bus; i'll let you know if it works |
| 17:53.26 | JeffM | good luck |
| 17:53.38 | *** part/#bzflag pacman_87 (n=timothy@nat-205-72.arlut.utexas.edu) |
| 17:55.19 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang (i=user@88-108-204-177.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 17:59.18 | *** join/#bzflag ruskie (i=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) |
| 18:11.02 | *** join/#bzflag Erroneous (n=dtremena@67-131-219-2.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 18:15.15 | *** join/#bzflag Dessy (n=Dessy@88-134-204-43-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 18:22.07 | *** join/#bzflag pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu) |
| 18:28.45 | *** join/#bzflag RobertC_ (n=mrmonday@fullcirclemagazine/communicationsmanager/mrmonday) |
| 18:40.31 | JeffM | in the middle of a big tornado, on the tip of evryone's tounge, in the belly of a giant whale, all the girls just want to have fun |
| 18:41.12 | Winny | if you say so |
| 18:41.26 | JeffM | I live way at the top, of castles made of sand.... |
| 18:42.25 | *** join/#bzflag RobertC (n=mrmonday@fullcirclemagazine/communicationsmanager/mrmonday) |
| 18:51.19 | *** join/#bzflag RobertC_ (n=mrmonday@fullcirclemagazine/communicationsmanager/mrmonday) |
| 18:52.44 | Winny | only 28 more days until april fools! \o/ |
| 18:53.14 | L4m3r | JeffM: nowai! |
| 18:53.22 | JeffM | ? |
| 18:53.24 | JeffM | ok |
| 18:53.28 | L4m3r | I think you're the first other person I've seen who knows of Oingo Boingo |
| 18:53.32 | JeffM | ban tyme! |
| 18:53.36 | L4m3r | other than family members |
| 18:53.39 | JeffM | heh |
| 18:53.45 | JeffM | it's a dead mans party |
| 18:53.49 | JeffM | who could ask for more? |
| 18:54.08 | L4m3r | they played at my high school, when my mother went there. How insane is that? :P |
| 18:54.14 | JeffM | wow |
| 18:54.19 | JeffM | nice |
| 18:54.44 | L4m3r | kind of absurd to think of Danny Elfman performing at a high school |
| 18:55.07 | JeffM | indeed |
| 18:55.28 | L4m3r | too bad they stopped playing halloween shows :( |
| 18:56.06 | *** join/#bzflag kirun (n=kirun@91.125.226.197) |
| 19:02.59 | JeffM | I never said I was good at it ;) |
| 19:03.15 | whodaman | Spell checker ftw :p |
| 19:03.19 | JBdiGriz | It's hard to be subversive when people know you're doing it. |
| 19:03.30 | JeffM | heh |
| 19:03.43 | JeffM | he never reads this |
| 19:04.09 | JBdiGriz | He reads his posts. |
| 19:04.24 | JeffM | perhaps |
| 19:04.42 | JeffM | was just a link to the mentor blog in his post on the the folder |
| 19:04.45 | JeffM | flyer |
| 19:04.50 | JBdiGriz | :D |
| 19:05.15 | spldart | more 70's 80's bands talk? |
| 19:05.46 | Winny | Is anyone in here interesed in being rick rolled? |
| 19:06.14 | whodaman | me me me, pick me |
| 19:06.46 | Winny | k |
| 19:07.55 | brlcad | my posts? ah, I see i've plugged the blog now :) |
| 19:08.14 | JeffM | yeah |
| 19:08.21 | Winny | JeffM, psst. I think he knows. :o |
| 19:08.25 | ts | JeffM: Now it doesn't link: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m5a873e4a |
| 19:08.37 | JeffM | he'll forget when he goes out drinkin again |
| 19:08.53 | JeffM | ts, did you build clean? |
| 19:09.15 | ts | JeffM: yes, I just started make after that, too have less stuff in the paste |
| 19:09.30 | ts | s/too/to/ |
| 19:09.31 | JeffM | ts, blast had that problem, then had to build clean |
| 19:09.40 | ts | I built clean. |
| 19:10.29 | blast007 | JeffM: I had to roll back to before your change |
| 19:10.51 | ts | blast007: to before removing the shadowed variable thing? |
| 19:11.01 | JeffM | where do you have a shadow? |
| 19:11.03 | blast007 | something he did |
| 19:11.14 | JeffM | yeah I shuld have fixed all the shadows |
| 19:11.18 | ts | JeffM: There was a commit saying removing shadows. |
| 19:11.24 | ts | This broke it for me. |
| 19:11.26 | blast007 | JeffM: and in the process, broke the build on OSX ;) |
| 19:11.28 | JeffM | ts, whas it by me :) |
| 19:11.45 | Winny | blast007: pah, who needs them anyways ;) |
| 19:11.53 | blast007 | Winny: I sure don't :) |
| 19:12.27 | JeffM | ts, is that name been munged? |
| 19:12.27 | ts | Who/what is them? |
| 19:12.38 | JeffM | does it want display? or _display? |
| 19:12.49 | JeffM | and where do you have a shadow, can you tell me? or must I guess constantly? |
| 19:13.01 | blast007 | hmm.... ts, disable bzrobots |
| 19:13.09 | blast007 | I think that's what ended up fixing my issue |
| 19:13.11 | ts | Well, doesn't look like shadowed variables. |
| 19:13.15 | blast007 | cuz it was dying in bzrobots |
| 19:13.18 | JeffM | ohh yeah robots for some reason wants the menus |
| 19:13.25 | JeffM | that is a known issue that someone has to fix |
| 19:13.27 | ts | Just undefined symbols. |
| 19:13.36 | JeffM | ts, during robots |
| 19:13.38 | blast007 | ts: add --disable-bzrobots to ./configure |
| 19:13.38 | JeffM | not bzflag |
| 19:13.45 | JeffM | see, you are building robots |
| 19:13.51 | JBdiGriz | Who is working on the robots? |
| 19:13.52 | JeffM | robots needs to no include those menu files |
| 19:14.01 | JeffM | JBdiGriz, noone I think |
| 19:14.10 | ts | Someone broke robots.. |
| 19:14.12 | ts | I had to fix |
| 19:14.23 | JeffM | ts, then take those 2 menu files out of the robot build |
| 19:14.38 | JBdiGriz | Perhaps I can break it for everyone else. |
| 19:14.41 | ts | JeffM: Some defs of the menu files are needed |
| 19:14.41 | JeffM | cus robots don't need menus ;) |
| 19:14.51 | JeffM | ts, then they should be moved to more common files |
| 19:15.44 | ts | Who is jannejun? |
| 19:16.12 | blast007 | is that Gilly? |
| 19:16.13 | JeffM | yes |
| 19:16.21 | jftsang | just been thinking... would it be possible to make the -solo bots act like Roger bots, i.e. will jump, pick flags up, etc? |
| 19:16.29 | JeffM | ts, dosn't matter who, ether fix it, or we will. |
| 19:16.41 | JeffM | jftsang, not at this time with out work. |
| 19:16.59 | ts | I'm eating right now..bread |
| 19:17.32 | jftsang | but what files control them? surely you could make the -solo bots use similar AI to that of Roger? |
| 19:17.51 | JeffM | jftsang, hence why I said, with out work |
| 19:18.27 | JeffM | what defines are needed by the bots from menu? |
| 19:20.31 | *** join/#bzflag Wits (n=Warinthe@1.168.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 19:21.43 | ts | JeffM: Don't know, maybe I'm wrong..will look at it after finished eating in approx 20 minutes |
| 19:22.18 | JeffM | must be big breat |
| 19:22.20 | JeffM | bread |
| 19:22.37 | JeffM | ts, in the end there is no reason for the bots to use menu code |
| 19:22.52 | brlcad | yeah, that'd be silly |
| 19:24.21 | JeffM | brlcad, replace be with "is" ;) |
| 19:24.52 | *** join/#bzflag RobertC (n=mrmonday@fullcirclemagazine/communicationsmanager/mrmonday) |
| 19:25.04 | jftsang | no, JeffM, subjunctive |
| 19:25.16 | brlcad | jftsang: that's silly! |
| 19:30.20 | techguyx | holy crap, there are other people on this planet who know about oingo boingo! |
| 19:30.27 | L4m3r | lol! |
| 19:30.31 | techguyx | it's a MIRACLE! |
| 19:31.00 | L4m3r | techguyx: you're not from greater los angeles, or socal in general, are you? |
| 19:31.06 | techguyx | originally from SD |
| 19:31.14 | L4m3r | go figure :P |
| 19:31.17 | techguyx | haha, I know right? |
| 19:33.29 | JBdiGriz | People in South Dakota know music? |
| 19:34.06 | L4m3r | I was thinking of San Diego |
| 19:34.22 | JBdiGriz | But who is originally from San Diego? |
| 19:37.19 | *** join/#bzflag hobbsc (n=hobbsc@ip70-178-55-100.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 19:41.30 | spldart | So that's 4 or 5 in here than no oingoboingo |
| 19:42.33 | *** join/#bzflag RobertC_ (n=mrmonday@fullcirclemagazine/communicationsmanager/mrmonday) |
| 19:44.03 | ts | JeffM: Looking at it... |
| 19:44.41 | L4m3r | Nasty habits are so much FUN! |
| 19:45.47 | Winny | tmi? |
| 19:46.40 | ts | Got bzrobots compiling so far |
| 19:46.47 | ts | Waiting for the rest, to make sure. |
| 19:49.58 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r16674 10/trunk/web/submitimages/queue.php: s/publicDirectory/public/ |
| 19:50.18 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-113-160-012.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 19:51.27 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r16675 10/trunk/web/submitimages/lang.js.php: We need includes/functions.php here as well |
| 19:52.55 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03t-s * r16676 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzrobots/Makefile.am: Take out the menus and motd from build system for bzrobots. They are not needed and only cause problems here. |
| 19:53.52 | ts | Someone(tm) please try to compile the game with bzrobots on at nix please :) |
| 19:56.14 | ts | Wow, we have testers |
| 19:56.18 | ts | j/k |
| 19:56.36 | KTL | euhm |
| 19:56.41 | KTL | also autogen.sh? |
| 19:58.32 | tannerld | what version of curl is needed to compile bz 3 (or whatever the in dev release is) |
| 19:59.26 | L4m3r | building now |
| 19:59.49 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r16677 10/trunk/web/submitimages/ (common.php includes/functions.php lang/en.php upload.php): Function for nice formatting for file sizes including units |
| 20:00.08 | blast007 | tannerld: I think curl might even be bundled with the source now |
| 20:00.34 | blast007 | ts: I'll have to try later. No linux/OSX machine at work. ;) |
| 20:01.03 | KTL | ceptions -g -O2 -MT ComposeDefaultKey.o -MD -MP -MF .deps/ComposeDefaultKey.Tpo -c -o ComposeDefaultKey.o `test -f '../bzflag/ComposeDefaultKey.cxx' || echo './'`../bzflag/ComposeDefaultKey.cxx |
| 20:01.03 | KTL | ../../include/MXpr.h: In member function ‘double MXpr::solve(std::string)’: |
| 20:01.03 | KTL | ../../include/MXpr.h:295: warning: comparison is always true due to limited range of data type |
| 20:01.03 | KTL | ../../include/MXpr.h:336: warning: comparison is always true due to limited range of data type |
| 20:01.03 | KTL | ../../include/MXpr.h:337: warning: comparison is always true due to limited range of data type |
| 20:01.10 | tannerld | pastebin |
| 20:01.10 | KTL | ~pastebin |
| 20:01.11 | ibot | [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste |
| 20:01.55 | KTL | it compiled |
| 20:02.03 | ts | yay |
| 20:02.25 | KTL | euhm how does it work btw? |
| 20:02.42 | KTL | is it a separate client of something? |
| 20:02.48 | blast007 | bzrobots? |
| 20:02.50 | KTL | yes |
| 20:02.58 | blast007 | yeah |
| 20:03.05 | blast007 | it's a headless bot client |
| 20:03.12 | L4m3r | it built |
| 20:03.22 | KTL | how many bots can one bzrobots process steer ? |
| 20:03.27 | blast007 | I think just one |
| 20:03.34 | blast007 | but I haven't used it |
| 20:03.42 | L4m3r | probably not anything stopping you from running multiple instances |
| 20:04.05 | KTL | indeed |
| 20:04.18 | blast007 | right, as has been done before |
| 20:04.38 | blast007 | it can be built with python support too, for scripting |
| 20:04.47 | tannerld | blast007: was complaining about curl.h, but I just droped the curl folder in includes and it seems happy now |
| 20:04.49 | blast007 | and there are probably sample bot scripts to try |
| 20:04.56 | blast007 | tannerld: what compiler? |
| 20:05.09 | *** join/#bzflag RobertC (n=mrmonday@fullcirclemagazine/communicationsmanager/mrmonday) |
| 20:05.37 | tannerld | blast007: haven't done this in a while - so no clue |
| 20:05.50 | tannerld | could tell you what compiler we use to compile robot code, but not this... |
| 20:05.52 | blast007 | well.. are you on Windows or something else? ;) |
| 20:05.59 | tannerld | ubuntu |
| 20:06.03 | blast007 | then GCC |
| 20:06.20 | blast007 | maybe we don't have curl in the source tree then |
| 20:06.47 | blast007 | hmm, ./bzflag-trunk/src/other/curl/ |
| 20:06.59 | tannerld | heh |
| 20:07.54 | blast007 | I probably have the curl packages installed on my server already for 2.0.x, so I haven't checked if the curl in bzflag works |
| 20:15.40 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 20:20.30 | blast007 | ah, guess I can't even build bzrobots on my dedicated server |
| 20:20.31 | KTL | and the code for a bzrobot should be coded in c++, compiled and linked with the rest of the code ? or is do i need a scriptlanguage? |
| 20:20.36 | blast007 | configure:3811: WARNING: Disabling the client presently also disables bzrobots too |
| 20:20.55 | blast007 | KTL: I'm not 100% sure, but I know you *can* use Python |
| 20:21.02 | blast007 | but it can be built without that as well |
| 20:21.11 | blast007 | so there might be another option |
| 20:21.47 | brlcad | ugh the kids on the gsoc forums are almost as annoying ... |
| 20:22.03 | KTL | it looks like a matter of making an object that inherits from BZAdvancedRobot, grepping around |
| 20:23.08 | blast007 | ./bots/python/SimpleRobot.py |
| 20:23.11 | blast007 | and more in there |
| 20:23.27 | KTL | and most of the interface consists of methods from BZAdvancedRobot it seems |
| 20:23.35 | whodaman | brlcad, link ? |
| 20:23.46 | blast007 | whodaman: http://www.google.com |
| 20:23.54 | Gilly | KTL: bzrobots uses swig to make interfaces to script languages, also compiling bots as shared objects is possible |
| 20:23.58 | whodaman | blast007, .. |
| 20:24.14 | KTL | thanks, this feels fun |
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| 20:27.56 | KTL | "src/bzrobots/bzrobots simplebot@bzexcess.com:25154 bots/python/SimpleRobot.py" <- it should log in there right? |
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| 20:34.39 | KTL | no man page for bzrobots yet |
| 20:35.00 | Gilly | yes it should |
| 20:35.17 | KTL | ls man | grep bzro gives nothing |
| 20:35.27 | Gilly | but be sure that the server allows bots (i wasn't succesful when trying to join some server out there so i put up my own) |
| 20:35.36 | Gilly | er yes it should wasn't to the man page comment |
| 20:35.46 | KTL | ah oki |
| 20:36.44 | Gilly | i'd have to add a couple of functions to handle the shot delivering between backend and frontend, i got backend pretty much prepaired so it's just a matter of writing some glue-code |
| 20:36.52 | Gilly | (assuming the backend preparations work) |
| 20:36.53 | spldart | Did someone say curl in trunk? |
| 20:37.35 | tannerld | spldart: points to blast007 |
| 20:39.00 | spldart | I have noticed that, iirc, configure keeps saying no curl even though I have it loaded... don't know if that's what he meant |
| 20:39.27 | blast007 | hmm |
| 20:39.31 | blast007 | not sure |
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| 20:52.34 | *** join/#bzflag noyb (n=noyb@nat/sun/x-27fff958ea4735db) |
| 20:55.35 | KTL | the bot enters, registers itself as an observer and quits |
| 20:55.58 | KTL | no, it does not quit, it halts and the server continues to think it is logged in |
| 20:56.21 | Gilly | the bot should come up both as an observer and as a player |
| 20:56.57 | Gilly | i wondered why once but i was told there was some part of the play that needed it :) |
| 20:57.52 | KTL | the player part is missing then, cant see output about that |
| 20:58.06 | Gilly | you've noticed that it writes log to frontend.log and backend.log |
| 20:58.07 | Gilly | ? |
| 20:58.31 | KTL | Frontend disconnected / failed! (Could not find a proper ScriptLoader for extension 'py'.) |
| 20:58.32 | KTL | ahaa |
| 20:58.37 | Gilly | *g* |
| 20:58.41 | blast007 | :) |
| 20:59.18 | Gilly | you got to give bzrobots some configure option, don't remember what it was |
| 20:59.19 | KTL | so i should go search for a python dev package and configure/compile again? |
| 20:59.28 | Gilly | in order to get python working |
| 20:59.28 | blast007 | yeah |
| 20:59.40 | blast007 | the configure script will say if it's being built with python support |
| 20:59.48 | blast007 | (or at least it says when it's not) |
| 20:59.56 | Gilly | --enable-bzrobots-python |
| 21:00.31 | blast007 | Gilly: it doesn't auto-detect? |
| 21:00.37 | Gilly | i think no |
| 21:00.42 | blast007 | hmm, k |
| 21:00.45 | Gilly | not sure though |
| 21:00.49 | blast007 | guess I'll have to try when I get home |
| 21:00.52 | Gilly | at least not for me because i had that issue once |
| 21:01.07 | Gilly | but enabling it by hand solved the problem |
| 21:01.11 | KTL | BZRobots client ...: yes (without python) -> now i try with --enable-bzrobots-python |
| 21:01.23 | Gilly | yea do that |
| 21:01.37 | KTL | configure: error: |
| 21:01.38 | KTL | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:01.40 | KTL | time to apt-get |
| 21:02.04 | Gilly | i haven't used the python interface though, just tested once or so... i've written everything in c++ (and that's just one bot for testing new stuff i've been trying to add to bzrobots) |
| 21:05.58 | JeffM | so did we figure out if robots needs the menu files? |
| 21:06.05 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 21:06.05 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 21:06.34 | KTL | apt-get install python-dev was enough for configure to work |
| 21:07.01 | KTL | still without python??? |
| 21:07.14 | Gilly | KTL: do you have swig installed? |
| 21:07.33 | KTL | not yet, allmost |
| 21:08.02 | Gilly | it will need that i think |
| 21:08.39 | KTL | not it is with python indeed :) |
| 21:08.52 | KTL | now* |
| 21:08.57 | Gilly | :) |
| 21:10.00 | blast007 | JeffM: ts fixed something relating to that |
| 21:11.19 | JeffM | blast007, in the build system? |
| 21:11.54 | JeffM | yeah, looks like he pulled the files |
| 21:11.54 | JeffM | good |
| 21:11.55 | blast007 | BZFlag: t-s * r16676 /trunk/bzflag/src/bzrobots/Makefile.am: Take out the menus and motd from build system for bzrobots. They are not needed and only cause problems here. |
| 21:12.17 | JeffM | it did seem odd that robots would need menus, or that we had some kind of defines in them that were used. |
| 21:12.24 | blast007 | yeah.. |
| 21:12.28 | JeffM | ibot, ts++ |
| 21:18.15 | KTL | /usr/bin/ld: ../date/.libs/libDate.a(buildDate.o): relocation R_X86_64_32 against `a local symbol' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC |
| 21:18.15 | KTL | ../date/.libs/libDate.a(buildDate.o): could not read symbols: Bad value |
| 21:18.35 | Gilly | tsk i had the same bug but didn't commit my fix for that |
| 21:18.42 | KTL | lol |
| 21:19.22 | Gilly | as i'm not sure if it's the right way to fix it :P |
| 21:19.48 | Gilly | What I did was: |
| 21:19.49 | Gilly | -AM_CPPFLAGS = -I$(top_srcdir)/include @CONF_CPPFLAGS@ |
| 21:19.49 | Gilly | -AM_CXXFLAGS = @CONF_CXXFLAGS@ |
| 21:19.49 | Gilly | +AM_CPPFLAGS = -I$(top_srcdir)/include @CONF_CPPFLAGS@ -fPIC |
| 21:19.49 | Gilly | +AM_CXXFLAGS = @CONF_CXXFLAGS@ -fPIC |
| 21:20.00 | Gilly | in date/Makefile.am |
| 21:20.43 | JBdiGriz | Why does bzrobots.cxx include ServerStartMenu.h? |
| 21:23.36 | blast007 | heh.. |
| 21:24.42 | JeffM | JBdiGriz, because it's origonal author just threw in large chunks of files to get it to work |
| 21:24.44 | spldart | Every time I see the name 'ts' I think Thiele/Small heh |
| 21:24.59 | JeffM | ibot nickometer ts |
| 21:25.57 | AHA | ~nickometer aha |
| 21:25.57 | brlcad | bzrobots started off as a complete fork of the client that has been slowly widdled down |
| 21:26.16 | brlcad | but there's still lots of client-only code that can be ripped out |
| 21:26.19 | JeffM | JBdiGriz, yeah that's what need doing |
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| 21:27.03 | JBdiGriz | Hack/slash/whittle, whittle .... |
| 21:27.08 | brlcad | some stuff you'd hope could be ripped out actually can't easily without some refactoring though, since some of the game logic is tightly coupled to some portions of the gui code |
| 21:27.39 | JBdiGriz | It looks like I can just rip the include out without much thought. The next question is whether it helps at all. |
| 21:27.59 | JeffM | JBdiGriz, it will help in the future if anything |
| 21:28.26 | JBdiGriz | I was hoping it would get rid of that instantiation of the display object. |
| 21:28.58 | JeffM | JBdiGriz, ts looks to have fixed that by removing things from the build |
| 21:29.18 | JeffM | I don't think it was ever included from the code, but left in the build system. |
| 21:29.44 | JBdiGriz | So it was only part of the link, not the compile? |
| 21:30.58 | JeffM | thats what I think |
| 21:31.22 | JeffM | it was building the menu files, and trying to link them in, even tho they arn't used. |
| 21:32.20 | JBdiGriz | I thought the current linker was smarter than that. |
| 21:32.45 | JeffM | that I don't know |
| 21:34.27 | KTL | the change in date / Makefile.am helped |
| 21:35.20 | KTL | python error : ImportError: No module named bzrobot |
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| 22:06.21 | Wyk3d | on VS7.1 debug build, libcurl.dll is not copied to src\bzflag\debug\ .. i guess that's unintentional ? |
| 22:07.41 | ts | spldart: Who/what is "Thiele/Small"? |
| 22:08.51 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang (i=user@88-108-204-177.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 22:11.04 | ts | spldart: Never mind, english wikipedia says it's something about speakers |
| 22:11.25 | spldart | sry @ work |
| 22:11.28 | spldart | yes speakers |
| 22:11.47 | spldart | I did alot of speaker enclosure design and build back in the day when I competed |
| 22:16.53 | JeffM | Wyk3d, in trunk or branch? |
| 22:17.59 | JeffM | must be trunk, yes for VC71 we left it where it was from the curl project. we only redid all the temp dirs for VC8, since it needs them done right to do multiple builds at the same time. |
| 22:18.03 | *** part/#bzflag jftsang (i=user@88-108-204-177.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 22:18.14 | JeffM | and for trunk VC 8.0 will be the primary, not VC71 |
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| 22:19.45 | Wyk3d | in trunk yes |
| 22:19.51 | JeffM | yeah, we just never moved it |
| 22:20.05 | JeffM | and we didn't make the curl project, it came from the curl people initaly |
| 22:20.10 | JeffM | so it's just lazyness |
| 22:20.18 | JeffM | 7.1 puts stuff all over the place |
| 22:20.32 | JeffM | the VC8 and 9 projects are a lot cleaner about it |
| 22:20.34 | Wyk3d | well i only had to copy that one dll and it worked fine :D |
| 22:20.38 | JeffM | yeah |
| 22:20.49 | JeffM | 7.1 isn't setup for production builds |
| 22:20.54 | JeffM | VC8 is |
| 22:21.12 | JeffM | at some point VC71 will go the way of VC6 |
| 22:22.32 | Wyk3d | i actually have VC9 installed but i still use 71 cause it's a lot more responsive for me |
| 22:22.50 | JeffM | I'm not sold on 9 yet |
| 22:22.54 | JeffM | 8 is good to me |
| 22:23.20 | Wyk3d | the parallel build feature on 9 is pretty cool though .. |
| 22:23.25 | JeffM | 8 has it as well |
| 22:23.33 | JeffM | thats why we cleaned up the dirs for 8 and 9 |
| 22:23.49 | JeffM | tho here at work, we use Incredibuild, much faster |
| 22:24.10 | Wyk3d | hmm i must have misunderstood something then :-/ |
| 22:24.22 | JeffM | ? |
| 22:24.41 | Wyk3d | well about parallel build i read somewhere it was first implemented in vs9 but .. |
| 22:24.49 | Wyk3d | i guess not apparently |
| 22:24.54 | JeffM | yeah it started in 8 |
| 22:25.03 | JeffM | builds more then one project at the same time. |
| 22:25.06 | Erroneous | it's disabled by default in 8 |
| 22:25.13 | Wyk3d | oh but .. |
| 22:25.23 | Wyk3d | vc 9 can build the files of the same project in parallel |
| 22:25.33 | JeffM | cool |
| 22:25.43 | JeffM | so can incredibuild :) |
| 22:25.52 | Wyk3d | indeed :) |
| 22:26.23 | Erroneous | incredibuild is fun :) |
| 22:26.36 | Constitution | re: the bzrobots/messy game code issues, I tagged in a libgame modularization idea into the GSoC page... someone with more knowledge of the plan might want to extend it a little. http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code/2008#Modularization_of_game_logic |
| 22:27.01 | Constitution | s/GSoC page/GSoC ideas page/ |
| 22:27.49 | JeffM | you shoudl mention that libgame should also include the game stuff from the server |
| 22:27.59 | JeffM | so both client and server can have game logic ;) |
| 22:28.17 | Erroneous | on the other hand, there's stuff in game that's server-specific right now |
| 22:28.33 | JeffM | there is stuff in game that should NOT be in game IMHO |
| 22:28.50 | Erroneous | I think there's been some confusion about what goes where |
| 22:28.59 | JeffM | materials... |
| 22:29.03 | JeffM | mesh transforms... |
| 22:29.47 | Winny | You don't want materials? |
| 22:29.53 | JeffM | not in libgame |
| 22:30.01 | JeffM | they shoudl go in libworld |
| 22:30.37 | Erroneous | libworld is fictional at this point ;) |
| 22:30.44 | Constitution | we could have the server kick players for shooting objects with a certain color ;) |
| 22:31.57 | JeffM | Constitution, that would be based on a trigger phydriv ;) |
| 22:33.05 | JeffM | time to start unsalting the shots :) |
| 22:34.09 | JeffM | no pepper ether |
| 22:34.19 | Winny | hmm |
| 22:34.22 | JeffM | just global GUIDs for shots |
| 22:34.42 | JeffM | in fact I think I can get rid of the per tank shot list |
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| 23:19.23 | JBdiGriz | The link error is gone from the current sources, but the config missing crash, and the quit crash still appear to be there. |
| 23:37.05 | JeffM | ok, so whats a better limit, 32768 live shots on a field at a time, or 2 billion? |
| 23:37.15 | JeffM | at the cost of 2 bytes per shot update? |
| 23:39.44 | JBdiGriz | 32768 live shots should be sufficient. The network won't support traffic even up to that limit. |
| 23:39.53 | JeffM | k |
| 23:39.59 | JeffM | thats for everyone's shots |
| 23:40.03 | JeffM | not per player |
| 23:40.13 | JeffM | but yeah |
| 23:40.21 | JeffM | cool |
| 23:40.31 | JeffM | then we loose the per player shot lists soon :) |
| 23:40.46 | Winny | JeffM, isn't it only possible to have numbmaxplayers * shotlimit (excluding MG, etc..) |
| 23:40.56 | JeffM | Winny, right now |
| 23:41.06 | JBdiGriz | Let's assume a large server with about 64 players on it. That would be about 500 shots on the field per player. I don't think many tanks would be unhit. |
| 23:41.12 | JeffM | ch-ch-ch-changes... |
| 23:41.21 | JeffM | heh |
| 23:41.30 | Winny | great, thanks for getting another song stuck in my head |
| 23:41.55 | JeffM | even at 20 shots per tank there, that's 1280 shots per |
| 23:42.02 | JeffM | plenty of room |
| 23:42.11 | JeffM | and we can increase it to an int later if something stupid happens |
| 23:42.15 | JBdiGriz | We could go for a disco song. That would really mess up your mind. |
| 23:42.33 | Winny | Disco inferno? |
| 23:42.54 | JeffM | wel this also counts world weapons, and people tend to go overboard on those |
| 23:43.07 | JeffM | but still I can't see more then a couple hundred of thsoe being live at a time |
| 23:43.41 | JBdiGriz | So you're up to about 5% of your limit. |
| 23:43.45 | JeffM | yeah |
| 23:43.45 | JeffM | ok |
| 23:43.48 | Erroneous | heh |
| 23:44.00 | JeffM | sighned shorts for shot GUIDs it is then :) |
| 23:44.59 | JeffM | heh, it's funny to see how small ServerLink::sendBeginShot has goten |
| 23:45.16 | JeffM | it uses a whoping 2 things from the firing info. |
| 23:47.36 | JBdiGriz | Are shorts architecture dependent in c++? You might want an int16_t. |
| 23:47.50 | JeffM | yeah |
| 23:48.02 | JeffM | thats what the rest of the code does, and I'm reusing it |
| 23:48.13 | JeffM | I'm just using the common term for discussion :) |
| 23:49.08 | JeffM | the idea is to get rid of the per player shot lists, and just keep one big list of shots. |
| 23:57.27 | JeffM | but to do that I need a global ID for shots |
| 23:57.49 | JeffM | the cool thing is that clients don't know or care who the shot belongs to :) |
