| 00:24.55 | *** join/#bzflag Ride (n=81b09707@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 00:25.02 | Winny | Constitution :P |
| 00:25.26 | Ride- | hey guys |
| 00:25.53 | Constitution | you kick me from my own channel? |
| 00:26.20 | whodaman- | Constitution, you tell him! |
| 00:26.48 | Constitution | this calls for a /msg chanserv access del! |
| 00:26.55 | Ride- | lol |
| 00:27.15 | Winny | heh |
| 00:27.24 | whodaman- | :O |
| 00:28.23 | Constitution | how's a graphical client (similar to bzadmin) for handheld devices for a GSoC project? |
| 00:29.48 | Winny | google it |
| 00:30.41 | L4m3r | /me says is the IRC equivalent of this-> |
| 00:31.21 | Winny | hmm, I wonder how to do sidescrolling in a game |
| 00:31.38 | Constitution | Winny: I'm brainstorming project ideas for the ideas page, not just for me |
| 00:31.49 | Winny | I suppose I could always just move stuff over and not render some if it, but that's really inefficient |
| 00:31.51 | Ride- | try page up and down |
| 00:32.22 | Winny | meh, let's see what happens |
| 00:33.36 | L4m3r | there would be an epic flamewar about which handheld(s) to support :P |
| 00:33.41 | Winny | hehe |
| 00:33.43 | Winny | iPhone! |
| 00:34.48 | Ride- | meanie |
| 00:35.08 | Constitution | L4m3r: it could work like the current client, in that there's the base code, and various platform implementations |
| 00:35.27 | Winny | heh |
| 00:35.51 | L4m3r | might be a good case for something like python or *gag* java |
| 00:36.08 | Winny | not java! |
| 00:36.17 | Constitution | heh |
| 00:36.20 | Winny | sheesh, Flash before java, IMO |
| 00:36.29 | Winny | if you _had_ to pick one |
| 00:36.32 | Constitution | guess we'll see how the iPhone/iPod SDK turns out |
| 00:36.52 | Winny | "You can now run a PHP server on the iFone!!!" / stevejobs |
| 00:37.02 | Winny | "everyone love me!" |
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| 00:38.32 | Winny | Ride-, real IRC client ... |
| 00:39.24 | Ride- | winny: how do you make your name show up orange |
| 00:39.38 | Winny | by highlighting you? |
| 00:39.43 | Winny | like this, Ride-? |
| 00:46.18 | brlcad | whodaman-: check again, updated |
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| 00:49.14 | whodaman- | yep, brlcad |
| 01:00.59 | Constitution | ~blast007++ |
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| 01:41.19 | BZFlagr13 | hello |
| 01:41.24 | BZFlagr13 | hi |
| 01:41.29 | BZFlagr13 | hey |
| 01:41.36 | BZFlagr13 | lol |
| 01:41.53 | brad | hi |
| 01:42.11 | BZFlagr13 | how teh doing |
| 01:42.27 | BZFlagr13 | how yeh doing |
| 01:42.45 | a_meteorite | this is not IM |
| 01:42.52 | a_meteorite | how can we help you? |
| 01:43.00 | BZFlagr13 | i know |
| 01:43.17 | BZFlagr13 | i dont need no help |
| 01:43.31 | a_meteorite | ok |
| 01:43.31 | whodaman- | then go to #bzchat |
| 01:43.41 | BZFlagr13 | ok thks |
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| 01:44.00 | a_meteorite | they keep stooping lower |
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| 02:16.27 | lacrosserox458 | helli? |
| 02:16.30 | lacrosserox458 | o? |
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| 02:20.45 | blast007 | hi lacrosserox458 |
| 02:20.55 | blast007 | what can we do for you? |
| 02:21.25 | JeffM | how has it been? |
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| 02:26.18 | JeffM | it is very hard to explain why google would pay people to work on free software, to your parents :) |
| 02:36.51 | L4m3r | no it isn't |
| 02:36.53 | L4m3r | "PR" |
| 02:37.05 | L4m3r | :P |
| 02:37.15 | KTL | is there no more reason then that? |
| 02:38.30 | L4m3r | well, you could say that they use FOSS in their company, but that doesn't seem like a likely reason |
| 02:38.50 | L4m3r | especially when many of the projects (like bzflag) aren't really of any use to Google |
| 02:39.04 | KTL | company culture :) |
| 02:39.23 | KTL | maybe the manager enjoys getting shot by me |
| 02:40.04 | L4m3r | I think it's something along the lines of "We have more money than God, so we'll do this for the hell of it, and get some geek cred too." |
| 02:51.38 | Constitution | JeffM: from earlier, "how's a graphical client (similar to bzadmin) for handheld devices for a GSoC project?" have any thoughts? |
| 02:52.11 | Constitution | might be a bit of a larger-scale project than we're looking for, I guess |
| 02:53.16 | blast007 | which handheld devices? |
| 02:53.38 | blast007 | that in itself is a rether broad topic |
| 02:54.38 | Constitution | if the interface were separated from the utility part, that could remain flexible... although I guess the windows mobile OS (or whatever it's called) would be the best place to start from |
| 02:55.25 | blast007 | hehe, I'd say start for the Maemo platform ;) but that's just cuz my nokia runs that |
| 02:56.40 | Constitution | multi-platform support would be the long-term idea, I guess, but probably a bigger project than what's appropriate for GSoC |
| 02:59.32 | JeffM | Constitution, it w ould depend on the device |
| 02:59.47 | JeffM | since prety much the work is going to be propritary to that device |
| 03:00.01 | JeffM | and it would have to be a LEGAL device |
| 03:00.13 | JeffM | not a psp or ds homebrew |
| 03:00.58 | Constitution | most common PDAs/handheld OSs have legal SDKs, don't they? |
| 03:00.59 | JeffM | so what devices do you have in mind? windows mobile? brew phones? ? |
| 03:01.09 | Constitution | windows mobile, maybe iPhone/iPod |
| 03:01.10 | JeffM | well that'd be windows mobile |
| 03:01.18 | JeffM | iphone has no SDK at this time |
| 03:01.27 | Constitution | in a week it's supposed to |
| 03:01.36 | JeffM | perhaps |
| 03:01.39 | Constitution | although windows mobile probably has a much wider user base |
| 03:01.43 | JeffM | yeah |
| 03:01.56 | JeffM | I mean it's not a horible idea but it just has so many limitations on it |
| 03:02.22 | JeffM | the dev wold have to know the API, have the hardware, etc.. |
| 03:02.34 | Constitution | true |
| 03:02.38 | JeffM | so I can't say I'd put it very high |
| 03:03.01 | JeffM | I mean a better thing woudl be a web based interface to it, with mobile layouts |
| 03:03.07 | JeffM | that woudl be more usefull. |
| 03:03.09 | JeffM | to more people |
| 03:03.45 | Constitution | wouldn't that be more of a server-side thing than client-side? |
| 03:03.52 | JeffM | depends how it was done |
| 03:03.57 | JeffM | but yes it could be done server side |
| 03:04.03 | JeffM | and that's probably a smart way to do it |
| 03:04.33 | JeffM | but that's up to the student to help decide |
| 03:04.49 | Constitution | well, unless it was built-in to bzfs, it would be hard to encourage implementation across all the servers |
| 03:05.00 | JeffM | plug-in could work |
| 03:05.02 | Constitution | whereas with a client-side thing, it doesn't matter |
| 03:05.10 | JeffM | now that BZFS can be an http server now |
| 03:05.15 | Constitution | true |
| 03:05.40 | JeffM | I mean again this is a solution looking for a problem |
| 03:05.55 | JeffM | the core problem is, how do you manage your server from anywhere |
| 03:06.56 | hwilde | ssh |
| 03:07.11 | JeffM | bzfs is not ineractive |
| 03:07.24 | JeffM | and it's not always possible to ssh from a mobile device |
| 03:07.31 | hwilde | get putty |
| 03:07.39 | JeffM | on my cell phone? |
| 03:07.42 | a_meteorite | putty does not run on mobile devices |
| 03:07.47 | hwilde | yeah, it does. |
| 03:07.53 | blast007 | which ones? |
| 03:08.07 | hwilde | pocket putty runs on windows mobile |
| 03:08.09 | Constitution | bbl |
| 03:08.12 | hwilde | iphone has its own builtin terminal |
| 03:08.17 | hwilde | openmoko comes with ssh |
| 03:08.29 | blast007 | maemo has openssh |
| 03:08.41 | JeffM | that is one possible solution |
| 03:08.44 | hwilde | midpssh runs on blackberry |
| 03:08.45 | JeffM | not the best I think |
| 03:08.55 | JeffM | because bzfs is NOT interactive |
| 03:09.03 | JeffM | and also not all servers run on linux |
| 03:09.20 | hwilde | have the clients accept a fast-reconnect message from the server so you can reload without losing all yoru players |
| 03:09.36 | JeffM | huh? |
| 03:09.45 | hwilde | openssh server for windows: http://sshwindows.sourceforge.net/ |
| 03:09.59 | JeffM | to what? |
| 03:10.04 | JeffM | bzfs is not interactive |
| 03:10.23 | JeffM | and that's not realy an integrated solution |
| 03:10.26 | hwilde | right so ssh in, edit the config, and reload, and have the server send a fast-reconnect message to the clients so you don't lose everybody |
| 03:10.38 | JeffM | that isn't what they are talking about |
| 03:10.41 | JeffM | like bans |
| 03:10.43 | JeffM | kicks |
| 03:10.44 | JeffM | etc.. |
| 03:10.58 | hwilde | well you can make the chat an irc channel |
| 03:11.05 | hwilde | then you just have to get to an instant messenger |
| 03:11.07 | JeffM | do you actualy know how the game works? |
| 03:11.31 | JeffM | work was done on Bzfs to IRC |
| 03:11.32 | hwilde | so you could join the chat from anywhere and do kicks and bans and /set whatever you like |
| 03:11.45 | JeffM | but then IRC dosn't run on all devices |
| 03:11.57 | hwilde | instant messenger does |
| 03:11.58 | JeffM | HTTP is possibly the most well suported protocll on all devices |
| 03:12.58 | JeffM | cus I don't really see the advantage of doing all the work for the things you are talking about |
| 03:13.47 | hwilde | hey you can either be positive or negative it's your perogative |
| 03:13.51 | hwilde | liek bobby brown said |
| 03:14.03 | JeffM | I just don't see the point |
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| 03:14.32 | JeffM | I'm just evaluating my opinons of it as a solution to the stated problem |
| 03:14.41 | hwilde | yeah yeah |
| 03:15.05 | hwilde | if nobody did anything unless they saw the full end game solution we wouldn't have the internet or irc or bzflag or any of this |
| 03:15.26 | hwilde | let's make an information super highway! wait I don't see the point |
| 03:15.57 | JeffM | that's not understanding the problem, I understand the problem. I just don't understand the ADVANTAGE of your proposed solution |
| 03:16.06 | JeffM | when there are are also OTHER proposed solutions |
| 03:16.28 | JeffM | in your case, it's quiestioning why TCP is better for the highway then novel, etc.. |
| 03:16.52 | hwilde | what if we sent the packets via carrier pigeon! |
| 03:16.59 | JeffM | indeed |
| 03:17.15 | JeffM | this is called the design phase :) |
| 03:17.27 | hwilde | in the design phase you brainstorm for option |
| 03:17.42 | JeffM | indeed |
| 03:17.45 | hwilde | it's an inclusive process where you are supposed to be open minded |
| 03:17.49 | hwilde | and reserve judgement for later |
| 03:17.53 | JeffM | and discuss the merits or flawas of them |
| 03:17.59 | JeffM | I have not judged anything |
| 03:18.07 | JeffM | I simply said I didn't see the advanage |
| 03:18.08 | hwilde | you know it would be cool to have irc chat |
| 03:18.13 | JeffM | it would |
| 03:18.17 | hwilde | nuff said |
| 03:18.33 | JeffM | that was one of the proejcts from last year |
| 03:19.02 | hwilde | well IF you did that you could instant messenger in from *almost* anywhere and do your adminning |
| 03:19.10 | JeffM | yeah that was one reason |
| 03:19.24 | JeffM | also makes for good things like friends lists, and stuff |
| 03:19.34 | JeffM | but I can also see advanatages of having somethign with a web gui |
| 03:19.44 | JeffM | and nothing says we can't have more then one system |
| 03:19.44 | hwilde | everything will inevitably have a web gui |
| 03:19.49 | hwilde | that's not even worth debating |
| 03:19.56 | hwilde | that's like a given |
| 03:20.03 | L4m3r | some sort of customized interface would be better than any one messaging protocol |
| 03:20.08 | JeffM | but a text interface isn't always the best |
| 03:20.12 | JeffM | indeed |
| 03:20.23 | L4m3r | it'd be simple to "bridge" a communication hub to irc, etc |
| 03:20.37 | L4m3r | a big problem with using IRC is that many hosts don't allow it |
| 03:20.51 | JeffM | indeed |
| 03:20.51 | hwilde | host doesn't have to know tho |
| 03:21.00 | L4m3r | so tying that into bzfs isn't the best idea |
| 03:21.31 | JeffM | it should be up to the server |
| 03:21.44 | blast007 | trunk supports HTTP plugins, so why not just do that? |
| 03:21.44 | JeffM | for how they want to manage there server |
| 03:21.57 | JeffM | blast007, that's what I was saying ;) |
| 03:22.21 | L4m3r | JeffM: did you ever start playing with that "libhttp" idea? |
| 03:22.29 | JeffM | L4m3r, I did start |
| 03:22.34 | L4m3r | :) |
| 03:22.43 | JeffM | I have a version of the HTTP plugin system that runs on it's own |
| 03:22.44 | JeffM | it works |
| 03:23.06 | L4m3r | nifty |
| 03:23.08 | JeffM | I busted it out to try out a C++ list server idea |
| 03:23.35 | AAA_awright | *cringe* |
| 03:23.49 | JeffM | heh |
| 03:24.47 | JeffM | the C++ list would proalby work out fine with another week of work |
| 03:25.04 | L4m3r | not sure it's the greatest approach, though |
| 03:25.06 | JeffM | and knowing how libMySQL works :) |
| 03:25.10 | JeffM | may not be |
| 03:25.20 | L4m3r | not being able to make live changes would be annoying |
| 03:25.47 | JeffM | well it'd still use a db, so you could swap them and not loose anything |
| 03:26.14 | JeffM | could also have it dump out it's memory state and reload it |
| 03:26.28 | L4m3r | yeah, but if you want to tweak the behavior of the list server, you'd have to rebuild and restart |
| 03:26.29 | JeffM | but yeah, it may not be best |
| 03:26.38 | JeffM | true |
| 03:26.41 | JeffM | but you get speed |
| 03:26.55 | JeffM | could also have a C core and python for logic, etc.. |
| 03:26.56 | JeffM | dunno |
| 03:27.02 | JeffM | these are all things that need testing :) |
| 03:27.05 | L4m3r | for a few hundred servers, a well-coded PHP list is fine :P |
| 03:27.17 | JeffM | perhaps |
| 03:27.22 | L4m3r | it's that "well-coded" part that's tripping things up now, as far as I understand |
| 03:27.31 | JeffM | code up some well coded php and we'll see |
| 03:27.35 | L4m3r | python or ruby would probably do just as well also |
| 03:27.38 | hwilde | "well coded php" |
| 03:27.49 | JeffM | our current list is not as efficient as it could be |
| 03:28.28 | L4m3r | I think protocol is an issue too |
| 03:28.29 | L4m3r | having to spider the list is definitely wasteful |
| 03:28.32 | JeffM | I don't think parmaer parsing is the big load |
| 03:28.32 | hwilde | it's probably the sorting of all the 1s and 0s that slows it down |
| 03:28.36 | blast007 | my rewrite is in there if you want a base to start off of |
| 03:28.44 | blast007 | bzfls2 |
| 03:28.49 | L4m3r | oh hell no :P |
| 03:28.58 | JeffM | L4m3r, you mean for stats? |
| 03:29.00 | L4m3r | nice try though XD |
| 03:29.04 | L4m3r | JeffM: yeah |
| 03:29.13 | JeffM | L4m3r, yes it is bad, but that's another problem |
| 03:29.20 | hwilde | do you guys do this full time ? |
| 03:29.23 | JeffM | no |
| 03:29.33 | hwilde | or do you have other jobs |
| 03:29.33 | L4m3r | that's right, the servers do report their player counts |
| 03:29.36 | blast007 | hwilde: what do you mean "full time"? |
| 03:29.43 | blast007 | pfft, bzflag isn't a job |
| 03:29.59 | blast007 | so you mean "or do you have a job" |
| 03:29.59 | JeffM | using the list server could be a beter solution for stats tho, but still another problem. |
| 03:30.08 | L4m3r | yeah, bzflag is something you do to waste time AT your job :D |
| 03:30.11 | hwilde | i mean how do you have time to sit in here all the time and talk about this |
| 03:30.18 | JeffM | we are very efficent |
| 03:30.20 | hwilde | are you just independently wealthy |
| 03:30.27 | JeffM | and techincaly I'm on vacation |
| 03:30.37 | JeffM | tomorow I drive home |
| 03:30.48 | L4m3r | JeffM: in all honesty, I think the stats site needs to be slashed and burned |
| 03:30.49 | hwilde | stay on vacation man |
| 03:30.52 | hwilde | the real world is a drag |
| 03:30.58 | JeffM | L4m3r, perhaps. |
| 03:31.06 | JeffM | or moved to another server andfixed |
| 03:31.07 | L4m3r | something slimmer would be nice to have |
| 03:31.15 | L4m3r | that just feeds of list server data |
| 03:31.18 | JeffM | hwilde, I go on vacation to see the real world |
| 03:31.22 | L4m3r | but scores and stuff is overkill |
| 03:31.30 | JeffM | in this case 'vacation' == seting up new machien for the parents. |
| 03:31.40 | hwilde | none of those scores are relevant anyways its all bots |
| 03:31.49 | L4m3r | having a global, open database just invites abuse... |
| 03:31.51 | JeffM | hence why push stats are good |
| 03:32.31 | L4m3r | I think that the stats site should keep detailed info on servers, and not-so-detailed info on players |
| 03:32.34 | JeffM | but yeah, it'd be nice to have it redone |
| 03:32.45 | L4m3r | no scoring junk :) |
| 03:32.53 | JeffM | L4m3r, depends what you want to do with the player data |
| 03:33.06 | JeffM | I don't mind keeping player data, it should just be done smart |
| 03:33.07 | L4m3r | not much more than "this player was last seen here, at this time" |
| 03:34.26 | JeffM | that may not be a bad SoC project, evaluate ways to do stats |
| 03:34.37 | JeffM | or maybe just integrate with another stats system |
| 03:35.17 | L4m3r | maybe for '09 |
| 03:35.29 | L4m3r | I think it'd be best to have a good list in place first |
| 03:35.39 | JeffM | we don't get to tell them what to do ;) |
| 03:35.50 | JeffM | we'll see what we get applications for |
| 03:36.13 | L4m3r | we still provide ideas :P |
| 03:36.15 | JeffM | if somone has a good proposal for a stats system, I'll pick it over a poor list server proposal |
| 03:36.39 | L4m3r | granted |
| 03:36.54 | JeffM | we shuld have both on the idea list |
| 03:36.58 | L4m3r | but if it's anything like last year, it won't be nearly so clean-cut :) |
| 03:37.05 | JeffM | no it won't |
| 03:37.18 | JeffM | if all goes well we should get more slots this year |
| 03:39.10 | L4m3r | :) |
| 03:39.56 | JeffM | but we'll see |
| 03:40.16 | JeffM | and nothing says that we can't you know... code up our own features ;) |
| 03:40.29 | L4m3r | heh |
| 03:41.14 | JeffM | that's my bigest problem with SOC, is that we can have a tendency to use it as a crutch |
| 03:41.51 | L4m3r | free code monkeys :P |
| 03:42.17 | JeffM | sure, but if we use that fact to not do our own work.. that's not good |
| 03:42.23 | JeffM | it's suposed to have us do MORE work ;) |
| 03:42.29 | L4m3r | of course |
| 03:42.53 | JeffM | I'm not so convinced that we did that last year |
| 03:43.00 | JeffM | I hope this year will be better |
| 03:43.00 | L4m3r | but look at last year... none of the projects were really core stuff, more "this would be nice" features that no one would have done otherwise |
| 03:43.14 | JeffM | indeed |
| 03:43.57 | L4m3r | now, if one of the people did an engine conversion and no one else touched it, THAT would be bad :P |
| 03:44.35 | JeffM | other then those engine projects, none of the other submisions were for "core" things |
| 03:45.29 | JeffM | we'll see what we get |
| 03:50.51 | JeffM | I think we shold do what we can to release during ( or as dtr says, before ) the SoC |
| 03:50.56 | JeffM | just so they see what we go thru |
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| 04:04.23 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16662 10/trunk/bzflag/ (BUGS src/game/MeshTransform.cxx): fix spin inversion bug since proto changed. |
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| 04:10.49 | JeffM | hmm just had a thought |
| 04:10.59 | JeffM | if you quit, what happens to your fired shots? |
| 04:11.02 | JeffM | do they poof? |
| 04:11.52 | JeffM | yet another reason to have shot GUIDs |
| 04:12.01 | blast007 | JeffM: I belive so |
| 04:12.23 | JeffM | they shoudl be tranfered to server side shots :) |
| 04:12.27 | blast007 | I've jammed on the F12 button before when a teammate has spawned in front of me as I'm firing :P |
| 04:12.35 | JeffM | heh |
| 04:12.52 | blast007 | (or when the rogue instinct kicks in) |
| 04:13.00 | blast007 | movement, shoot! |
| 04:13.00 | JeffM | I'm looking at the bug in the bug list for when you run out of shots, and the last shot gets a no flag |
| 04:13.29 | blast007 | yeah, because the server initiates a "flag drop", so there can be some lag |
| 04:13.38 | blast007 | and I've seen even more than one shot be that way |
| 04:13.48 | JeffM | that and the shot dosn't pick up the flag from the shot, it gets it from the client |
| 04:14.03 | blast007 | it's most noticable with SW, because it makes regular shots, but they have no velocity |
| 04:14.06 | JeffM | with the shot split I can now burn in the flag intot he shot |
| 04:14.51 | blast007 | JeffM: wouldn't the local client still see the effect they *had* though? |
| 04:15.08 | JeffM | hmm perhaps |
| 04:15.19 | JeffM | should also send out shot limits to the client then too |
| 04:15.49 | JeffM | we coudl fix that if we had server side shot updates too |
| 04:15.50 | blast007 | that's the real issue I think |
| 04:15.58 | JeffM | so the client would get an update, and the shot would fix itself |
| 04:16.00 | blast007 | the client is still trying to shoot the flag they had |
| 04:16.04 | JeffM | but I can send the limits now too |
| 04:16.21 | blast007 | but the server sees that's it's not valid, and sets it to NoFlag (or whatever it does) |
| 04:16.53 | JeffM | we'' well send the limits to the client anyway, that way we can do like ammo conters on the client too |
| 04:17.37 | JeffM | and I can't say that is a bad thing |
| 04:17.53 | JeffM | maybe put a X of Y thing on the reloaders |
| 04:17.59 | JeffM | or X/Y |
| 04:18.29 | *** join/#bzflag deprecated (n=deprecat@c-24-18-19-17.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 04:20.24 | JeffM | I can also send the shot message back to the shooter, and have it rebuild the shot from there, killing the old start |
| 04:20.31 | JeffM | that way it's also the same info as the remote players |
| 04:20.52 | JeffM | so worst case, you see the wrong shot, then it pops into the right one. |
| 04:23.12 | JeffM | hmm I need to also throw a timestamp into the shot |
| 04:23.23 | JeffM | yay, proto break time. |
| 04:25.19 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (i=essy@freenode/staff/sportchick) |
| 04:25.19 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v SportChick] by ChanServ |
| 04:34.15 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r) |
| 04:34.15 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
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| 04:59.12 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v SportChick] by ChanServ |
| 05:02.37 | *** join/#bzflag Slynderdale (i=Slynderd@pdpc/supporter/base/Slynderdale) |
| 05:03.11 | Slynderdale | A question, I checked all the wikies and such, but how is the handicap score calculated when using _handicapScoreDiff with handicap on? |
| 06:06.57 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16663 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/ (GuidedMissleStrategy.cxx SegmentedShotStrategy.cxx): the current time is a double, math on it with a float is a warning. |
| 06:09.05 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16664 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/ (Player.cxx Player.h playing.cxx): |
| 06:09.05 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: when we get the shot update back for our own shots, blow out the local shot we |
| 06:09.05 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: have, and rebuild it with the shot from the server. This should ensure accuracy, |
| 06:09.05 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: and fix issues where the client shoots the wrong shot type ( running out of |
| 06:09.05 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: shots limited shot situations, in high lag situations ). |
| 06:11.28 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16665 10/trunk/bzflag/TODO: add todo to send shot limits to the client in a real message for display and proper shot change prediction. |
| 06:18.13 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16666 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/Player.cxx: if we get back a shot message for a shot that we don't have anymore, then just go and ignore it, don't keep growing the list. |
| 06:19.15 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16667 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/Player.cxx: note to self, make sure that SVN, not the editor has focus when committing files. |
| 06:24.01 | praetorian | any bzflagr.net admins on able to ban someone? |
| 06:26.51 | blast007 | who? |
| 06:27.40 | a_meteorite | praetorian: yes, server? |
| 06:28.12 | praetorian | blast007: achiles .. he was continually team killing .. and keeps quiting/rejoining to hide it |
| 06:28.26 | praetorian | tho now he says he is going to be "good" |
| 06:28.49 | a_meteorite | praetorian: he's not there.. |
| 06:28.59 | a_meteorite | oh, he is, double l |
| 06:29.46 | a_meteorite | he's using a regged name but not identifed |
| 06:37.39 | praetorian | yeah .. thanks anyway, looks like he has taken a hike |
| 06:38.29 | a_meteorite | yeah, I banned him and his mate :) |
| 06:38.38 | a_meteorite | two guys were using the same IP, presumably in the same house |
| 06:38.47 | praetorian | ah, cool. thanks |
| 06:39.28 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 06:39.28 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 06:39.31 | a_meteorite | If he comes back give me a ping |
| 06:42.15 | praetorian | ive got some stuff ive got to do for a bit - but if i see him again, will do |
| 07:02.52 | *** join/#bzflag bier_ (n=bier@p54A55D81.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 08:34.11 | *** join/#bzflag Gilly (n=btw@83.146.211.140) |
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| 09:25.27 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r16668 10/trunk/web/submitimages/ (5 files in 3 dirs): |
| 09:25.27 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: Write the image details to the SQLite database when approved from the queue. |
| 09:25.27 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: Match up the naming of database variables from MySQL and SQLite. |
| 09:25.28 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: Delete the images from the MySQL queue when approving or rejecting. Approved image details are stored in SQLite. |
| 09:26.21 | *** join/#bzflag HighKarateKitty (n=HighKara@ip68-98-31-187.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 09:39.27 | *** join/#bzflag stylus (i=stylus@freenode/helper/stylus) |
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| 09:56.28 | *** join/#bzflag chaoscon (n=jeremy@smartserv/ceo/chaoscon) |
| 09:57.27 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r16669 10/trunk/web/submitimages/config.php.example: Move the Other OSI-Approved config item into the correct position. |
| 10:05.54 | *** join/#bzflag utrrrongeeb (n=mhciipec@ties-pool1-21.isn.net) |
| 10:07.52 | utrrrongeeb | Not sure if anyone remembers me from yesterday, but I got my joystick working. |
| 10:10.04 | utrrrongeeb | Is it just me, or is it harder to fight robots (I'm inexperienced) in Hix than in a generated world? |
| 10:11.36 | whodaman- | fight robots? |
| 10:15.02 | *** join/#bzflag stylus (i=stylus@freenode/helper/stylus) |
| 10:18.40 | utrrrongeeb | The "solo" robots. |
| 10:19.04 | whodaman- | ah |
| 10:19.07 | utrrrongeeb | It seemed to me that Hix was harder to fight them in than the generated worlds. |
| 10:21.25 | utrrrongeeb | Is it? Or is it just me? |
| 10:21.43 | whodaman- | I actually don't know, I've never used a joystick |
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| 10:22.40 | utrrrongeeb | I was thinking of whether there was a general difference, not necessarily just with a joystick. |
| 10:25.04 | whodaman- | define "harder to fight". Do you mean they jit around more in HiX? |
| 10:25.20 | whodaman- | Or just seem more 'skilled' |
| 10:25.50 | utrrrongeeb | Is Hix better suited to the robot's skills than the generated levels? |
| 10:26.18 | utrrrongeeb | Hix has large, open spaces, and the robots have the most accurate guns available. I'm inexperienced, and not that good at dodging. |
| 10:26.55 | utrrrongeeb | Generated levels tend to have lots of boxes to lurk behind the corners of, which suits me better. |
| 10:28.56 | whodaman- | utrrrongeeb, so it could be just your playing? ;) |
| 10:29.52 | utrrrongeeb | Maybe -- I found it easier the fight the robots in a generated level than in Hix. |
| 10:35.08 | *** join/#bzflag Wyk3d (n=Wyk3d@lns-bzn-47f-81-56-254-111.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 10:35.33 | *** join/#bzflag Upsetter (n=Upsetter@i577B5AE1.versanet.de) |
| 10:37.31 | utrrrongeeb | Any tips (that aren't secret) you could mention on how to get better at fighting them? (besides avoiding jumping and changing direction) |
| 10:37.49 | *** join/#bzflag stylus (i=stylus@freenode/helper/stylus) |
| 10:38.30 | whodaman- | utrrrongeeb, I'd stick with real players :) |
| 10:38.33 | whodaman- | Much more fun |
| 10:38.52 | whodaman- | When I play bots they just randomly jit around which makes it kinda hard |
| 10:39.42 | utrrrongeeb | From what I've heard here, many players can take on a dozen robots. I would assume that I could not take on a dozen robots, and therefore would be up against a lot of trouble fighting real players. |
| 10:40.02 | utrrrongeeb | I'm also on dial-up (24 kbps), so I'm not sure whether the lag would be a problem. |
| 10:41.28 | whodaman- | ah |
| 10:45.56 | *** join/#bzflag stylus (i=stylus@freenode/helper/stylus) |
| 11:03.03 | whodaman- | lol? |
| 11:08.44 | *** join/#bzflag bier (n=bier@p54A56ACE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 13:42.10 | spldart | Decided to test r16669 for yahs :) http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d2acdf2e1 ... still debug enabled and bzrobots disabled |
| 13:46.47 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-113-160-012.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
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| 14:30.47 | delusional_ | is there an easy way to kill ALL players at every flag capture, for a race-type map? |
| 14:31.06 | Winny | you could do a bunch of onCap world weapons I suppose |
| 14:31.27 | spldart | Once GIANT SW |
| 14:31.35 | whodaman- | sure |
| 14:31.57 | delusional_ | or get someone to write a simple plugin.. I'm thinking i can use my racetoseven plugin, with a match length of 1. |
| 14:32.33 | hwilde | world weapon would do it |
| 14:47.39 | Winny | Grese lightnin'! |
| 14:47.53 | Winny | yay, I can't spell |
| 15:19.43 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@dyndsl-091-096-010-049.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 15:33.37 | delusional_ | what happens if you put a shot limit on a bad flag? |
| 15:51.27 | *** join/#bzflag kirun (n=kirun@91.125.226.197) |
| 15:53.45 | Thumper_ | delusional_: try it and let us know :) |
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| 16:05.33 | delusional_ | thumper, the shot limit works |
| 16:05.45 | delusional_ | flag drops at number of shots |
| 16:08.06 | *** join/#bzflag ViciousM (n=max@cpe-024-211-248-161.nc.res.rr.com) |
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| 16:13.07 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang (n=jftsang@88-108-161-11.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 16:13.43 | Winny | LOL |
| 16:13.59 | Winny | tonywolfe121 posted a screenshot on bzbb and he had "cheat engine 5.4" open in the taskbar |
| 16:14.16 | Winny | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/files/observer_bolt_554.jpg |
| 16:15.00 | ViciousM | rofl |
| 16:15.02 | ViciousM | epic |
| 16:20.14 | Winny | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=121663#121663 :D |
| 16:22.19 | short_circuit | Classic |
| 16:24.27 | spldart | Wish we could see his reaction after the realization over then intarweb |
| 16:24.36 | Winny | hehe |
| 16:26.37 | kirun | I looked at the cheat engine site, somebody posted a hack for... minesweeper |
| 16:27.14 | ts | What games can it manipulate? |
| 16:27.22 | kirun | That has to be the world's biggest waste of time... maybe they'd like some pre-filled sudokus as well |
| 16:27.45 | spldart | I'm going to tinker with this cheatengine thingy :~) |
| 16:27.53 | Winny | heh |
| 16:28.39 | ts | Can it manipulate bzflag, too? |
| 16:30.08 | Winny | not sure |
| 16:31.54 | spldart | I'm pretty sure by the description that in a bit of tinkering you could do some cheating with it... But thats just a guess by reading up on it |
| 16:32.09 | Winny | brad :p |
| 16:33.04 | Winny | but I'm wondering if he's smart enough to even know how to do it |
| 16:33.07 | blast007 | ts: there's not much it can do for an online game like bzflag |
| 16:33.09 | spldart | He is going to say... "I only use it for the sims" |
| 16:34.06 | ts | spldart: hehe |
| 16:34.48 | Winny | "I really wanted that pinball high score!!!" |
| 16:34.51 | kirun | In my day, we cheated properly, by altering the save file in a hex editor! *waves walking stick |
| 16:35.15 | Winny | kirun: get off my lawn |
| 16:36.00 | *** join/#bzflag LongDo1 (n=LongDon@dyndsl-091-096-002-090.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 16:36.01 | kirun | Oh, and of course, using rules.ini to get Tesla Dogs in Red Alert is mandatory |
| 16:36.12 | Winny | spldart: LOL |
| 16:36.14 | Winny | you were right |
| 16:36.16 | Winny | "lol needed money in the sims 2 but i dont have a ct for bzflag olny the sims 2 i dont hack multiplayer severs thats just wrong but oneplayer games no harm in that" |
| 16:39.40 | Winny | hrh |
| 16:40.32 | spldart | LMAO!!! I work in a commercial business district.. the door to our right is the courtesy patrol's headquarters... It's a sunday so most of the strip is abandoned... They leave their key on top of their door frame!!!!!!! |
| 16:40.51 | spldart | Dude just rolled up badge and uniform and let himself in |
| 16:41.23 | spldart | goes to check aforementioned bzbb thread |
| 16:41.44 | spldart | gone |
| 16:42.21 | Winny | heh |
| 16:42.56 | spldart | j/k |
| 16:46.28 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 17:24.46 | spldart | Poop.. I could use another 256 or 512 in my work pc |
| 17:29.08 | Winny | spldart, how many MB/GB are in there now? |
| 17:34.09 | *** join/#bzflag Epyon (n=Epyon@90-156-93-82.magma-net.pl) |
| 17:34.29 | *** join/#bzflag Mets (i=HydraIRC@JETSTAR.RES.cmu.edu) |
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| 17:36.38 | spldart | boss supplied this thing with only 256.. I stuck another 256 in but I don't want to be pocketing what I really need.. Trying to get him to loosen the strings a bit |
| 17:37.16 | spldart | But when you have 18 or more 10 to 20 meg adobe doc's open for comparitive searching along with java loaded things get into swap quick |
| 17:37.44 | whodaman | rofl at http://my.bzflag.org/bb/files/observer_bolt_554.jpg |
| 17:38.14 | spldart | He stuck freaking 2 gig in his rig and he does the same work I do >:-( |
| 17:38.38 | spldart | Can XP Pro utilize 2 gig? |
| 17:38.42 | blast007 | yeah |
| 17:39.01 | spldart | I've never bothered past 1 gig.. never needed it |
| 17:39.03 | blast007 | it can handle about 3.5GB (4GB overall memory limit) |
| 17:39.05 | Winny | with photoshop open I usually get up to ~1.5gb |
| 17:39.28 | spldart | Video encoding work gets me in the 756 range sometimes but that's my home machine |
| 17:39.32 | Mets | quick question guys - is there a way to prevent people from running the /listplugins command? |
| 17:41.48 | Mets | i mean in terms of permissions |
| 17:43.26 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
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| 17:45.01 | Mets | maybe? |
| 17:47.07 | blast007 | Mets: I patched my bzfs for that |
| 17:47.32 | Mets | hmm, is there a patch on the bb for it? |
| 17:48.08 | blast007 | no |
| 17:49.55 | Mets | is it an easy fix - I could try to replicate it |
| 17:50.18 | blast007 | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/f2b73bb53 |
| 17:50.40 | blast007 | not the best way I guess, but it works |
| 17:50.50 | blast007 | I think trunk had a new permission added for listing |
| 17:52.00 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=wheeeeee@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 17:52.13 | Mets | cool, I'll give it a shot, thanks blast |
| 17:52.32 | Mets | it makes sense for it to be a perm I think, there are certain plugins you might not want advertised, like some anticheating measures |
| 17:52.44 | Mets | just my thoughts anyways |
| 17:56.13 | spldart | blast007 Did you catch my pastebin on the build of r16669 a few hours ago? |
| 17:56.57 | blast007 | hmm, guess trunk doesn't have a new perm for listing plugins |
| 17:57.26 | blast007 | they added a perm for loading/unloading plugins, because before it was tied to being an "admin" |
| 17:57.43 | blast007 | spldart: nope |
| 17:58.08 | spldart | It was you and jeffm that did some code work on trunk last night right? |
| 17:58.18 | blast007 | jeff did |
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| 17:58.26 | blast007 | my commit was for web stuff |
| 17:58.31 | spldart | Oh yeah |
| 17:58.36 | tj13810 | what program would everyone say is best for map making? |
| 17:58.39 | spldart | my bad... I'll wait for him then |
| 17:58.52 | spldart | He brokededed something :-) |
| 17:59.19 | Winny | tj13810: I use a mix of blender, BZEdit, and notepad. |
| 17:59.33 | Winny | and modeltool for converting the meshes. |
| 18:00.10 | blast007 | spldart: do you have the pastebin? I can't locate it in my log |
| 18:01.05 | spldart | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d2acdf2e1 |
| 18:01.27 | Winny | Would another viable GSoC project be to complete the map editor? |
| 18:01.38 | spldart | same config as yesterday that we were playing with |
| 18:01.50 | brlcad | Winny: sure |
| 18:01.59 | Winny | hmm, ok |
| 18:02.10 | brlcad | continuation of any of last year's project are all viable project ideas |
| 18:02.55 | spldart | When I saw commits by you and jeffm last night after I crashed I did a fresh svn this morning which matched your last for web stuff and noticed client was broken again in trunk |
| 18:03.36 | brlcad | this pastebin? http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m20948564 |
| 18:04.15 | brlcad | ahh, http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d2acdf2e1 is just a compiler shadow warning |
| 18:04.34 | brlcad | that's a trivial tweak (just fix it!) |
| 18:05.06 | spldart | hehe |
| 18:06.40 | tj13810 | thank you winny. Is there a way to make the mouse in BZEdit more functional? |
| 18:06.52 | tj13810 | (more than one axis at a time for movement) |
| 18:06.59 | Mets | blast007, thanks, got it to work just fine |
| 18:07.05 | Winny | no idea. iBZEdit isn't an official project, and the maintainer stopped working on it |
| 18:07.13 | Winny | err, oh, BZEdit |
| 18:07.27 | tj13810 | yeah, no Mac here (yet) |
| 18:07.28 | Mets | would be nice if it was a perm but this will be good enough |
| 18:07.32 | blast007 | define "more functional" |
| 18:07.56 | tj13810 | i could drag and drop the items without switching axis |
| 18:07.58 | Winny | you can hold down ctrl or shift and move the mouse (while holding down the right mouse button) |
| 18:07.58 | blast007 | you can zoom in/out with the mouse wheel, and you can press some of the alt/ctrl/shift keys to alter how it moves |
| 18:08.19 | Winny | shift moves on x-y and ctrl moves on z |
| 18:08.19 | tj13810 | ok |
| 18:08.44 | tj13810 | well, if for now i just use x-y i could set Z with a numeric value, thank you |
| 18:09.47 | blast007 | I never drag and drop ;) |
| 18:12.20 | blast007 | ah, and if you don't have a mouse wheel for zoom, you can hold Shift+Ctrl and drag the right mouse |
| 18:25.15 | *** join/#bzflag Pommes (n=Pommes@about/essy/frenchy/Pommes) |
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| 18:40.52 | *** part/#bzflag LongDo1 (n=LongDon@dyndsl-091-096-002-090.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 18:43.56 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=wheeeeee@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 18:51.21 | spldart | In linux... is there a way to address a running application or service to find out what nic/nics it might be listening too? I have a multiple nic router using iptables and am having trouble getting bzfs, ssh and apache out on the web |
| 18:51.47 | ruskie | netstat -Nnap | grep bzflag |
| 18:51.48 | ruskie | ? |
| 18:53.30 | *** join/#bzflag Flash (n=jwmelto@unaffiliated/flash) |
| 18:53.35 | spldart | hrm.. close.. but doesn't seem to list which app/ which nic if applicable |
| 18:54.00 | blast007 | it lists the IP address |
| 18:54.19 | blast007 | "Local Address" is the address it's listening on |
| 18:54.34 | spldart | woah.. it does if I don't grep a particular service |
| 18:54.38 | spldart | thanks.. that'll do |
| 18:55.55 | spldart | I'm trying to build a trick little script but have to solve this problem first |
| 19:12.55 | *** join/#bzflag Daveman (n=dave@pool-141-153-244-48.mad.east.verizon.net) |
| 19:30.27 | spldart | And I'm learning that I have alot to learn writing a shell script more complicated than the basics 'can't think of a good frustration face |
| 19:32.21 | TD-Linux | spldart, shell scripts are really hard to write complicated :/ |
| 19:32.31 | TD-Linux | I'm trying to learn python occasionally for my complicated scripts |
| 19:32.43 | TD-Linux | spldart, is this a bzfs management script? |
| 19:33.54 | spldart | Nah |
| 19:34.22 | spldart | It just benefits bzfs among some other services for my personal server |
| 19:34.47 | spldart | I'm gonna have a cron activate a script periodically |
| 19:43.25 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=Spazzy_M@unaffiliated/spazzymcgee) |
| 19:43.59 | ruskie | spldart, usually easier to write a lot of easy scripts or separate all the stuff into separate functions then just call those |
| 19:44.55 | *** join/#bzflag FalseProphet (n=Gigi@unaffiliated/emonemo) |
| 19:45.04 | FalseProphet | actually Winny |
| 19:45.08 | FalseProphet | I can get in |
| 19:45.13 | Winny | I see |
| 19:46.10 | spldart | I think I have a workable version of it for now.. just have to fix that server issue to imliment.. I'm sure this task would be simple for you guys... but for me I'm not alot past 'Hello World' nstuff |
| 19:46.32 | spldart | I'll continue studying and add some more functionality later |
| 19:48.16 | ruskie | advnaced bash scripting guide is your friend :) |
| 19:49.35 | spldart | I have 3 guides open @ the same time hehehe |
| 19:49.42 | spldart | google is my friend |
| 19:57.45 | whodaman | lol, I thought you said "coogle is my friend" |
| 19:58.05 | Winny | heh |
| 20:01.31 | spldart | heh |
| 20:01.55 | spldart | I've already been mistaken for the plebe Peter4B.. I don't need that too 8-0 |
| 20:02.15 | Winny | :( |
| 20:02.19 | spldart | IB I accidentily post a screenshot with a cheat engine |
| 20:02.29 | spldart | ;-p |
| 20:07.27 | spldart | Meh... funny attempt denied |
| 20:08.25 | blast007 | Please enter root password to try again: |
| 20:09.41 | Winny | myrootpasswordisuncrackable1836 |
| 20:10.08 | spldart | lol |
| 20:10.24 | Winny | I bet no one would ever guess that, too :p |
| 20:10.38 | spldart | hehe |
| 20:11.07 | blast007 | Winny: they would *now* :P |
| 20:11.17 | *** join/#bzflag F687s (n=noah@cpe-75-180-32-9.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 20:11.31 | Winny | true |
| 20:11.33 | spldart | heh... if you peeps had my root password you'd only have to guess my user password... you already have my ip and then I'd be f'd up on the work stowaway |
| 20:12.46 | FalseProphet | spldart: you have to identify to ChanServ with your root password |
| 20:12.48 | FalseProphet | like this |
| 20:13.06 | FalseProphet | ChanServ identify EmoNmo *********** |
| 20:13.24 | spldart | hehe |
| 20:13.40 | spldart | That's mr funny to you from me right? |
| 20:13.58 | spldart | curses.. dipped into my swapfile again!!! by 101 meg this time grrrr |
| 20:14.06 | Winny | get moar rams |
| 20:14.31 | spldart | I wonder if I can get the manager to sneak a business cost by the owner and I can get another stick of ram |
| 20:14.50 | *** join/#bzflag Wyk3d (n=Wyk3d@lns-bzn-47f-81-56-254-111.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 20:17.10 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 20:17.10 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 20:24.15 | spldart | Seriously.. I still can't believe our security puts their key on top of the door frame here... Inspires confidence... Doesn't it? |
| 20:24.29 | blast007 | haha |
| 20:24.40 | brad | that's the last place anyone would look ;) |
| 20:25.25 | Winny | if the open the door, look up, the key falls down and blinds them |
| 20:26.53 | *** join/#bzflag Wyk3d (n=Wyk3d@lns-bzn-47f-81-56-254-111.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 20:34.38 | spldart | Honestly.. We have footage of a couple guys walking down this row of business trying to reach in the mail slots to grab the bolt locks and checking the tops of door frames.. My God |
| 20:34.51 | spldart | security camera around 11:30 @ night |
| 20:35.10 | whodaman | nice |
| 20:35.25 | Winny | hehe |
| 20:37.56 | spldart | hrm... I think it's time to pack it in for a sunday and head home.. hrrrmmmmmm |
| 20:38.31 | brlcad | spldart: never! |
| 20:45.52 | whodaman | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=12323 |
| 20:45.57 | whodaman | what ARE they talking about? |
| 20:46.48 | FalseProphet | https://secure.logmein.com/products/hamachi/vpn.asp?lang=en |
| 20:46.52 | FalseProphet | VPN software |
| 20:52.26 | *** join/#bzflag ALEXfrance (n=ALEXfran@213.166.216.176) |
| 20:55.43 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (i=DTRemena@about/essy/CrazyCoder/DTRemenak) |
| 20:55.43 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak] by ChanServ |
| 20:56.25 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@CPE-75-81-248-105.we.res.rr.com) |
| 20:56.25 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 20:59.32 | *** join/#bzflag bz21 (n=62c29ff6@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 20:59.54 | bz21 | hello |
| 21:00.17 | bz21 | hi |
| 21:00.20 | *** part/#bzflag bz21 (n=62c29ff6@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:00.29 | CBG | whodaman: why not google "hamachi"... geez. I expected better from you. |
| 21:05.45 | brlcad | mm. hibachi |
| 21:05.59 | *** join/#bzflag Ride (n=81b09706@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:06.40 | blast007 | hi Ride- |
| 21:13.32 | Winny | here's a totally OT vote: should I set my mario map parser to if it gets a malformed map option, it a) crashes, or b) ignors it and keeps on going? |
| 21:14.50 | Ride- | do what ever one you like best |
| 21:16.25 | Winny | I could do that, the whole purpose of a poll is to get other people's opinions :) |
| 21:17.12 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 21:17.12 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 21:41.30 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang (i=user@88-108-161-11.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:44.53 | Ride- | hey jft |
| 21:45.02 | jftsang | good evening to you |
| 21:45.17 | Ride- | same too your |
| 21:45.20 | Ride- | *you |
| 21:50.32 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=short_ci@c-98-197-19-35.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 21:51.26 | spldart | mmMMmm home.... but gotta get my pizza... brb :-p |
| 21:55.25 | Tupone | TimRiker: did you get that the calendar in the irc-log is not considering this year as "bisestile"? |
| 22:18.49 | Winny | brlcad: should your bzbb post say "IF we are once again", not "IFF we are once again"? |
| 22:19.02 | brlcad | nope |
| 22:19.08 | Winny | heh |
| 22:19.15 | brlcad | IFF is mathspeak for "if and only if" |
| 22:19.35 | Winny | most people don't know that, and it will look like a spelling mistake :) |
| 22:19.50 | brlcad | not my fault they don't know that :) |
| 22:20.49 | brlcad | feel free to post a reply to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_and_only_if if you *really* feel it needs being explained (I'm fine with them thinking it's a typo, it's just a forum) |
| 22:21.06 | Winny | true |
| 22:21.28 | Winny | any idea how many slots we'll get if any this year? Same as last year? |
| 22:21.49 | brlcad | if accepted, we won't likely accept more than we had last year |
| 22:21.53 | brlcad | we know better this year |
| 22:22.07 | brlcad | so "about the same" is probably fair |
| 22:22.38 | *** join/#bzflag slon02 (n=47e0aac5@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 22:23.13 | Winny | ah |
| 22:25.01 | Wyk3d | how many slots did the project have last year ? |
| 22:25.18 | Winny | 3 I believe |
| 22:26.18 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban) |
| 22:26.33 | brlcad | 4 slots |
| 22:26.49 | Winny | oh? I thought it was L4m3r, Jude, daxxar |
| 22:27.06 | L4m3r | you forgot Epyon |
| 22:27.17 | brlcad | http://my.bzflag.org/gsoc/bzflag_gsoc2007_post_mortem.pdf |
| 22:27.29 | Winny | he's so easy to forget ;) |
| 22:27.44 | brlcad | and http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code/2007#Program_Evaluation |
| 22:34.45 | jorgenpt | What about me? |
| 22:35.12 | a_meteorite | Winny is dance master. Do not anger dance master. |
| 22:35.21 | jorgenpt | I'm in Poland, drinking beer. Awesome. |
| 22:35.25 | Winny | what's the min. age to participate in GSoC? 18? |
| 22:35.35 | jorgenpt | Epyon is polish, isn't he? |
| 22:35.45 | a_meteorite | Winny: Yeah, I miss it by a few months |
| 22:35.48 | L4m3r | you need to be a college student... which generally means you'd be 18 |
| 22:35.49 | a_meteorite | Though I am in college >_< |
| 22:35.55 | Winny | L4m3r: bah |
| 22:35.59 | a_meteorite | L4m3r: 18 is a requirement, at least it was last year |
| 22:36.40 | a_meteorite | http://code.google.com/soc/2008/faqs.html#0.1_age_limits |
| 22:36.56 | Winny | being born in December sucks :/ |
| 22:37.03 | brlcad | jorgenpt: if you're interested in being a student or mentor, lemme know |
| 22:37.44 | brlcad | as well as anyone else for that matter (particularly potential mentors that haven't already stepped forward) |
| 22:37.44 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@CPE-76-177-176-191.natsoe.res.rr.com) |
| 22:37.44 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 22:38.38 | L4m3r | is there a shortage of mentors? |
| 22:38.50 | brlcad | can never have too many |
| 22:39.14 | L4m3r | :| |
| 22:39.43 | jorgenpt | brlcad: I am. |
| 22:40.14 | brlcad | we had nearly 2x extra mentors last year and they helped sort out and rank the applicants, reviewing writeups (like the article), etc |
| 22:40.55 | L4m3r | oh, so not really "official" student mentors, then |
| 22:41.05 | L4m3r | just developers, basically? :P |
| 22:41.19 | L4m3r | (and other helpful people associated with the project) |
| 22:42.25 | brlcad | jorgenpt: great! .. which :) |
| 22:42.54 | brlcad | L4m3r: listed as official mentors .. whether they are assigned or not depends on the applicants and interest |
| 22:43.20 | brlcad | e.g. i'm more server-inclined, AI topics, networking topics .. so if I mentor, that'd be projects I'd look to sponsor |
| 22:43.34 | brlcad | other mentors have different interests |
| 22:45.52 | jorgenpt | brlcad: One of them! |
| 22:48.47 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:52.23 | jorgenpt | I have to figure out summer jobs, because I've applied for a summer internship at Google Norway (as a systems developer) |
| 22:52.38 | jorgenpt | So I can't really commit to doing either of those until I figure out how that goes. :-) |
| 22:53.18 | Winny | :o) |
| 22:54.24 | L4m3r | well, I wouldn't mind helping out, but I don't think I'll have the time (or the ability, really) to mentor a student |
| 22:56.21 | jorgenpt | I can try being a "fallback"/"generic mentor" no matter what happens. :) |
| 22:57.58 | ts | brlcad: Is http://my.bzflag.org/gsoc/BZGSoC2008_de.png current? |
| 22:58.21 | ts | brlcad: I see a bad sentence in there. |
| 22:59.44 | *** join/#bzflag techguyx (n=techguyx@r73h120.res.gatech.edu) |
| 23:00.11 | ts | brlcad: In the mid of the text there is "für das Programmierern an" which should be "für das Programmieren an" |
| 23:06.48 | brlcad | ah, I maybe forgot to copy the images into place |
| 23:07.44 | brlcad | ts: ah yeah, I did -- check again |
| 23:11.10 | brlcad | hmm.. making them submit a patch .. that could be interesting |
| 23:13.10 | jorgenpt | Who submit a patch? |
| 23:15.41 | L4m3r | I think it could be a good idea to ask students to use git. |
| 23:15.59 | techguyx | git? |
| 23:16.10 | brlcad | jorgenpt: applicants |
| 23:16.11 | L4m3r | unlike a branch, it would be easy to keep their repos up to date against trunk |
| 23:16.40 | jorgenpt | Ah, submit a patch during gsoc? |
| 23:16.41 | L4m3r | and ideally it'd make merging a lot easier when anything went back into mainline |
| 23:16.48 | brlcad | I disagree -- ultimately the goal is to integrate them like the other devs, not help keep them isolated |
| 23:16.51 | brlcad | i think this year we' |
| 23:17.05 | brlcad | we'll be even more strongly opposed to branch-work unless absolutely necessary |
| 23:17.15 | L4m3r | hm, ok. |
| 23:17.18 | jorgenpt | But why patches instead of using SVN directly? |
| 23:17.18 | brlcad | jorgenpt: yeah, during application process -- have them submit a snippet |
| 23:17.33 | jorgenpt | Snippet of what? |
| 23:17.36 | L4m3r | obviously, if they're working directly in mainline, it's a moot issue :) |
| 23:17.44 | brlcad | jorgenpt: for the *application* .. once accepted, they'd be working like you guys were |
| 23:17.44 | techguyx | would you be having us just do some basic work on the bzflag code as an example or something? |
| 23:18.01 | techguyx | <-- is a student interested in the gsoc thing |
| 23:18.08 | L4m3r | but I think git would be a better option than a branch for the sake of integration, as backwards as that may sound |
| 23:18.30 | brlcad | yeah, just showing competency in actually making a patch, something trivial but enough of a barrier to weed the bottom-half out |
| 23:18.43 | techguyx | haha, gotcha |
| 23:19.11 | brlcad | if not writing a patch, maybe actually writing a snippet of code that does X |
| 23:19.46 | L4m3r | "Please submit a patch to implement rotating turrets along with your application." |
| 23:19.51 | brlcad | hehe |
| 23:19.57 | brlcad | more like |
| 23:20.03 | brlcad | write a function that returns the number of uppercase letters in a given string |
| 23:20.07 | L4m3r | heh |
| 23:20.12 | techguyx | haha, bit of a difference there eh? |
| 23:20.21 | *** join/#bzflag sigonasr2 (n=sigonasr@ip72-200-88-154.tc.ph.cox.net) |
| 23:20.22 | brlcad | just as a basic competency test .. i think a few last year would have failed |
| 23:20.30 | techguyx | yikes |
| 23:20.43 | brlcad | not ones accepted, but the rejected applicants |
| 23:21.10 | brlcad | and for that particular example, actually doing it *live* with the mentors |
| 23:21.13 | L4m3r | didn't you say that some of the other projects had huge issues with that |
| 23:21.17 | L4m3r | ? |
| 23:21.35 | techguyx | kinda scary that people would "slip through" on stuff like that |
| 23:21.55 | brlcad | yeah, one project had a student get all the way to the mid-term util they found out that the entire application and work to date was from the student's sibling.. |
| 23:22.09 | L4m3r | >_< |
| 23:22.13 | techguyx | 0_o |
| 23:22.15 | jorgenpt | lol :P |
| 23:22.38 | techguyx | That's almost impressive in its own scary way |
| 23:23.33 | L4m3r | I should ask the gsoc people to not lock students out of the dashboard |
| 23:23.47 | L4m3r | I almost crapped myself yesterday because of it |
| 23:24.20 | L4m3r | I was afraid I had forgotten to change my mailing address from my summer dorm, and needed the tax form they sent out. fortunately I did... it was in my mailbox :P |
| 23:24.36 | *** join/#bzflag sigonasr (n=sigonasr@ip72-200-88-154.tc.ph.cox.net) |
| 23:24.43 | techguyx | wow, that would have sucked |
| 23:24.53 | techguyx | they won't let you back in if something like that were to happen? |
| 23:25.00 | *** join/#bzflag Wits (n=Warinthe@1.168.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 23:25.07 | techguyx | to fix it I mean |
| 23:25.11 | L4m3r | I couldn't log in |
| 23:25.31 | L4m3r | there's not much I could have done after the fact anyway, but I wanted to see what my mailing address was in the web app |
| 23:27.48 | Winny | woohoo |
| 23:28.10 | Winny | look, I can't even spell properly anymore! |
| 23:28.19 | techguyx | eh, who needs vowels anyways |
| 23:30.02 | L4m3r | well, I don't think getting good applicants will be a big issue. if anything, the problem will be deciding which of several good ones to accept :) |
| 23:30.10 | L4m3r | (like last time) |
| 23:31.02 | Winny | I havent gotten to sing hey jude for a few weeks :( |
| 23:31.41 | techguyx | I'm definitely interested in that graphics engine integration project personally... hoping to download the current source and see how the current engine works sometime tonight actually |
| 23:31.41 | brlcad | that is quite true, we had more than a dozen last year that were exceptional |
| 23:31.41 | brlcad | about two dozen that were "pretty good" |
| 23:31.59 | brlcad | so it very quickly came down to about 10 applicants |
| 23:32.27 | brlcad | having a coding and personality interview would probably be the biggest difference I'd have from last year |
| 23:32.42 | brlcad | going into more detail about the proposals beforehand |
| 23:33.09 | brlcad | otherwise I think the execution process was spot on |
| 23:33.44 | L4m3r | I guess that's a nice thing about being a smaller project :) |
| 23:34.08 | techguyx | There were 4 projects last year, right? |
| 23:34.16 | L4m3r | yes |
| 23:34.26 | brlcad | our ratio wasn't actually much different than some of the bigger projects .. |
| 23:34.41 | L4m3r | really? they had that many applicants? |
| 23:35.10 | brlcad | but having 30 mentors and 300 submissions (and accepting 30) is much different than having 10 mentors, 50 submissions, and accepting 4 |
| 23:35.15 | Winny | we're just not veyr popular ;) |
| 23:35.34 | brlcad | we were higher than many of the projects |
| 23:36.09 | brlcad | fairly close to the mean iirc, as the range was something like 2 to 35 projects per org with a mean around 5 |
| 23:36.35 | L4m3r | I wonder what the stats are for the number of applicants |
| 23:36.36 | brlcad | a lot of small projects only got 2 slots |
| 23:36.48 | brlcad | like 25 % or something |
| 23:36.53 | techguyx | was that due more to a lack of mentors or applicants do you think? |
| 23:37.05 | brlcad | neither |
| 23:37.08 | L4m3r | could be neither |
| 23:37.18 | brlcad | google only has N slots to divy out among M orgs |
| 23:37.28 | techguyx | ah... yeah I hadn't considered that |
| 23:37.40 | brlcad | so it's based on lots of factors, like their past year success, mentor capacity, number of submissions, etc |
| 23:38.06 | techguyx | Do they decide how many slots to give to each org before the students are chosen, or do they review proposals with a given student in mind once they're picked? |
| 23:38.15 | brlcad | returning orgs tend to get what they ask for, new orgs tend to lose slots |
| 23:38.20 | techguyx | gotcha |
| 23:38.34 | brlcad | which makes complete sense in hindsight |
| 23:38.58 | brlcad | we asked for ten last year, that probably would have been horrible |
| 23:39.05 | L4m3r | oh man |
| 23:39.17 | brlcad | er, as an upper bound |
| 23:39.17 | Winny | 10. wow |
| 23:39.25 | brlcad | you have to specify the upper bound you will consider |
| 23:39.31 | L4m3r | oh, I see |
| 23:39.34 | brlcad | then google gives you at that or lower |
| 23:39.45 | L4m3r | but yeah, I can see things getting spread rather thin at that rate |
| 23:39.45 | brlcad | hence |
| 23:39.47 | brlcad | returning orgs tend to get what they ask for, new orgs tend to lose slots |
| 23:40.04 | brlcad | as a returning org, you have a much better feel for capacity |
| 23:40.04 | L4m3r | how many do you think we'll ask for this time? |
| 23:40.07 | techguyx | yeah, I could see that being very significant especially for first-time orgs |
| 23:40.14 | brlcad | about the same as last year, 4 or 5 |
| 23:40.43 | brlcad | it is a pretty common trend that fewer tends to result in higher quality |
| 23:40.48 | brlcad | and higher retention |
| 23:41.18 | brlcad | i know a couple returning orgs that want no more than 2 even though they have enough mentors for considerably more |
| 23:42.41 | L4m3r | well, even for us, there's only so much we can do, unless we want to assign students to do a lot of grudge-work |
| 23:42.51 | brlcad | I'd like to see a 2:1 mentor-to-student ratio (including backups) so we'll see how much manpower we have |
| 23:42.57 | L4m3r | which isn't really fair |
| 23:43.09 | brlcad | yeah, that's not good |
| 23:43.42 | L4m3r | Jeff had said something about not wanting to use gsoc as a crutch to get things done, which I totally agree with |
| 23:43.48 | brlcad | yep |
| 23:43.54 | brlcad | that's not the point |
| 23:44.13 | brlcad | i'm inclined to still not allow graphics engine integration as a project this year |
| 23:44.28 | brlcad | unless we get someone exceptional .. because it's just too complicated a project |
| 23:44.57 | brlcad | i'd be much happier seeing something easily attained like a new serverlist menu |
| 23:45.02 | L4m3r | in theory we could assign two students to it, assuming that the management/mentoring won't bee to complicated |
| 23:45.11 | L4m3r | be* O_o |
| 23:45.13 | brlcad | or isolated network testing framework |
| 23:45.22 | L4m3r | too* heh |
| 23:45.37 | brlcad | too students? :) |
| 23:45.49 | L4m3r | too complicated :P |
| 23:45.54 | techguyx | I was kinda curious as to how large of a scope the integration would have |
| 23:46.04 | L4m3r | heh... complete. |
| 23:46.27 | Winny | brlcad: for the gfx engine, you wanted the draw code seperated from the logic first, right? |
| 23:46.33 | brlcad | yep |
| 23:46.33 | techguyx | well i guess scope might not be the right word but |
| 23:46.36 | brlcad | that's a project in itself |
| 23:46.49 | Winny | break it up into 2 years? |
| 23:46.55 | brlcad | if that were done, integrating an engine would be a lot more straightforward |
| 23:47.13 | brlcad | Winny: that's possible, but moving drawing code is borderline grunt-work |
| 23:48.12 | brlcad | that's refactoring and moving at least 50k lines of code |
| 23:48.27 | Winny | oi |
| 23:48.41 | techguyx | the network simulation project seems really intriguing as well... I was looking at that earlier trying to think of how exactly you go about simulating packet loss / latency and such |
| 23:48.49 | techguyx | 50 k lines... that sounds like a party |
| 23:49.04 | Winny | you and 50,000 of your closest friends! |
| 23:49.22 | techguyx | hahaha, they might not be by the end of it :P |
| 23:50.24 | brlcad | techguyx: there's lots of ways to go about it, but i'm thinking something like a server relay/proxy or some interface layer on client and server that intercept all network packets and do things with the packets |
| 23:51.03 | techguyx | gotcha... so having something intercepting all communication and managing it as a way of simulating? |
| 23:51.10 | brlcad | e.g. randomly resort udp packets, latency statistics, ability to inject latency/jitter, usage metrics .. but with knowledge of our API |
| 23:51.54 | brlcad | yeah, something like that so we could simulate and regression test different network conditions |
| 23:52.34 | brlcad | maybe even set up the actual tests for various conditions and a framework for running the client/server automatically under the different conditions |
| 23:53.22 | techguyx | yeah, I imagine you could automate the process quite a bit in that sense |
| 23:53.37 | Winny | that would be an interesting thing to integrate into BZFS ... "/set blast007 packetloss 50%" :p |
| 23:54.04 | brlcad | entirely separate from that, a different project would be to review the network protocol and help move game logic to the server-side -- really either need to be very familiar with bzflag behavior, have a good testing framework in place, and/or be very good at network code |
| 23:54.51 | brlcad | that's borderline "too big" of a summer project and a bit open-ended so it'd have to be refined, but something important |
| 23:55.35 | techguyx | how much of the logic is on the client side currently? |
| 23:55.45 | brlcad | ooh, an in-game scriptable debug console that can talk both client and server controls .. damn if i've not wanted that a dozen times over |
| 23:55.57 | L4m3r | brlcad: time... not really. Chances are, I'll be in the same boat as last year. |
| 23:55.58 | brlcad | techguyx: probably 80% |
| 23:56.25 | brlcad | two years ago it was 98% |
| 23:56.28 | techguyx | wow |
| 23:56.48 | brlcad | so in two years we may be down below 50% |
| 23:56.53 | L4m3r | not the greatest thing for a multiplayer game :) |
| 23:57.00 | brlcad | it's massive refactoring to move that stuff |
| 23:57.22 | brlcad | that, however, would probably make a poor project unless someone is just really damn good at refactoring with others |
| 23:57.33 | brlcad | and can be done controlled testably |
| 23:57.44 | L4m3r | As much as I'd like to help out, it wouldn't really be fair to a student for me to mentor if I don't have time... so I'm leaning towards sitting it out this year. |
| 23:57.48 | brlcad | (which again begs for that network testing framework) |
| 23:57.48 | techguyx | yeah that sounds like it'd be quite the undertaking |
| 23:58.10 | brlcad | L4m3r: fair enough |
| 23:58.35 | brlcad | techguyx: what projects did you have in mind? |
| 23:59.44 | brlcad | or are you still getting a feel? |
