| 00:01.56 | a_meteorite | question for a dev out there... BZ_API_VERSION in 2.0 is 16, but in 2.1 it's 1... how can I tell the two API's apart reliably? What if 2.1 works it's way up to 16? |
| 00:02.14 | a_meteorite | Or by the time it gets to 2.2, it works it's way up to 16? |
| 00:03.16 | a_meteorite | We were going to make our plugin work on both APIs with some preprocessor trickery, so that when we develop for 2.1 we don't have to go back and merge all the 2.1 parts out and rewrite some of the things that are harder to do in 2.0 API. |
| 00:07.11 | *** join/#bzflag noyb (n=noyb@66.15.119.25) |
| 00:17.03 | *** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=emp@unaffiliated/rob1n) |
| 00:19.19 | *** join/#bzflag CBG_ (n=CBG@cpc4-stme1-0-0-cust103.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 00:21.58 | brlcad | FYI, if you run screen on .bz, I've made a simple 'rx' script that reattaches you to your existing screen session |
| 00:22.19 | Macrosoft | a_meteorite: by "trickery", you mean "witchcraft", right? ;) |
| 00:22.45 | a_meteorite | Macrosoft: yeah, but do you know the answer? :P |
| 00:22.58 | Macrosoft | brlcad: screen -r |
| 00:23.15 | brlcad | Macrosoft: yes? |
| 00:23.25 | Macrosoft | ...i think thats the switch |
| 00:23.43 | brlcad | uh, I wasn't asking a question |
| 00:24.06 | brlcad | I created a shortcut, so all you need to type is 'rx' |
| 00:24.24 | brlcad | just a simple wrapper on screen -r username |
| 00:24.43 | brlcad | just letting folks know that it exists if they want to type fewer characters |
| 00:24.57 | Macrosoft | i like screen -x |
| 00:25.03 | Macrosoft | ...clones |
| 00:25.27 | brlcad | actually, it uses -x, same difference |
| 00:26.06 | brlcad | just in case you're already attached |
| 00:26.24 | Macrosoft | if you use -x, you can have the output cloned to several terminals. if you use -r, it steals the output from the other terminal |
| 00:26.51 | a_meteorite | brlcad: Do you have any idea about my question above? |
| 00:28.19 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@2002:4cb1:bee3:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 00:28.19 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 00:35.08 | brlcad | Macrosoft: hence "same difference" |
| 00:35.32 | brlcad | i was trying to be brief, but that apparently wasn't obvious |
| 00:36.40 | brlcad | a_meteorite: hmm, I vaguely recall jeff talking about what he was intending, but at least one way would be just to check bz's version in addition to the BZ_API_VERSION .. both are compiled into libdate |
| 00:37.17 | a_meteorite | compiled into libdate? is that part of bz's source? |
| 00:37.22 | brlcad | ahh, looks like it was moved out |
| 00:37.37 | a_meteorite | hmmm... well, I need to tell somehow... |
| 00:38.14 | *** join/#bzflag eyeballer786 (n=Djpengui@adsl-216-102-90-233.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 00:38.20 | brlcad | I could be wrong, but I don't think the intent was to remain backwards compatible |
| 00:38.37 | a_meteorite | well, for our purposes, we really need to |
| 00:38.41 | brlcad | the nature of doing a major release update, get rid of old baggage |
| 00:38.56 | a_meteorite | we're looking at forward compatibility, but we'll be releasing when 2.0 is still around (we think) |
| 00:39.11 | JeffM | 2.1 api is not call compatable to 2.0 |
| 00:39.17 | a_meteorite | 2.1's API is much easier, so we've been developing in that then backporting to 2.0's API |
| 00:39.18 | JeffM | the version means somethign else now |
| 00:39.20 | brlcad | you can add it yourself, just add a build flag to your own build when 2.2 goes out |
| 00:40.04 | brlcad | -DNEW_VERSION or something to your build, then if defined(NEW_VERSION) && (BZ_API_VERSION == 1) .. |
| 00:40.05 | JeffM | the version prevents new from runing in old, not old in new. |
| 00:40.14 | *** join/#bzflag Djpenguin (n=Djpengui@adsl-216-102-90-233.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 00:40.26 | a_meteorite | JeffM: that was the point, by using preprocessor we could code up the right stuff |
| 00:40.39 | JeffM | a LOT changed |
| 00:40.44 | JeffM | more then just #defines |
| 00:40.46 | a_meteorite | I know, I've been developing in both :) |
| 00:46.35 | brlcad | a_meteorite: there are a handful of defines in head that are not on 2.0 that you could key off of |
| 00:47.00 | brlcad | e.g. _ATTRIBUTE12 didn't exist in the old, nor bz_perm_listPlugins and a handful of others |
| 00:47.18 | a_meteorite | ahh never thought about that |
| 00:47.24 | a_meteorite | thanks |
| 00:47.37 | brlcad | that's why they pay us the big bucks |
| 00:47.49 | brlcad | (har har) :) |
| 00:49.14 | JeffM | we could put a #def in the 2.1 |
| 00:49.18 | JeffM | API header |
| 00:49.22 | JeffM | tho it'd be pointless later |
| 00:49.34 | brlcad | yeah, no sense fluffing up the new |
| 00:49.54 | brlcad | there are plenty of new defines to key off of if they want to compile same plugin against either |
| 00:51.01 | brlcad | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m301f89eb |
| 00:51.39 | JeffM | the perm would be the best one |
| 00:51.40 | brlcad | and undoubtedly more by the time release comes |
| 00:51.49 | JeffM | it has the least likelyhood of changing |
| 00:52.10 | brlcad | yeah, and there's conveniently a 2.0 one that went away too |
| 00:52.23 | brlcad | so you can go either way |
| 00:52.42 | a_meteorite | sounds good, I'll just use bz_perm_listPlugins |
| 01:11.49 | delusional | jeffm, look for me and tedius to ask questions about sphere and radius.... how to make drawinfo more view-able (not suddenly disappear when viewed from the wrong angle).... He's working on LOD's and I'm working on matrefs.... too late to talk right now... in a day or two maybe. |
| 01:12.06 | JeffM | ok |
| 01:12.10 | JeffM | it's not too hard to compute |
| 01:12.58 | delusional | thx |
| 01:21.27 | *** join/#bzflag Tedius (n=Tedius@76.205.124.21) |
| 01:23.30 | neutronix7 | is it ok to serve up maps from the maps release page even there is no license for it? |
| 01:24.29 | JeffM | you mean the forums? |
| 01:30.26 | neutronix7 | yes sorry JeffM |
| 01:30.35 | neutronix7 | nm i read what you posted about it |
| 01:30.44 | JeffM | all maps on the fourums are assumed to have share licenses |
| 01:30.55 | JeffM | if they don't, and someone asks you to take the map down, you do |
| 01:31.02 | JeffM | and we also pull the map from the forums |
| 01:31.05 | neutronix7 | i see one on there that i really like... i want my son to play it |
| 01:31.12 | neutronix7 | he likes space stuff |
| 01:31.12 | JeffM | then go for it |
| 01:31.23 | JeffM | the likelyhood of somone asking you to take it down is very rare |
| 01:31.32 | neutronix7 | well if they do, i understand |
| 01:31.36 | JeffM | and if they do, we'll pull it from the boards too |
| 01:31.44 | JeffM | and give them the stink eye |
| 01:31.53 | neutronix7 | ehh no need for that :-) |
| 01:32.00 | JeffM | yeah there is |
| 01:32.05 | JeffM | they should have not posted it |
| 01:32.11 | JeffM | or they should share with the other childrent |
| 01:32.21 | JeffM | I mean we shared the game with them, it's the least they can do |
| 01:32.55 | Tedius | There's no real reason to post it if they don't want someone to host it |
| 01:33.03 | JeffM | exactly |
| 01:51.16 | Djpenguin | anyone here use Xchat aqua? |
| 01:51.51 | JeffM | I used to |
| 01:56.41 | rob1n | i do |
| 01:56.50 | rob1n | JeffM, what do you use now? |
| 01:57.16 | JeffM | xchat |
| 01:57.22 | rob1n | on a mac? |
| 01:57.23 | JeffM | I got smart and got rid of my mac |
| 01:57.28 | rob1n | ah |
| 01:57.31 | Djpenguin | pfft! |
| 01:57.34 | Djpenguin | thats not smart |
| 01:57.35 | rob1n | so you're back on windows? |
| 01:57.42 | JeffM | never left it |
| 01:57.52 | rob1n | Djpenguin, it's not a matter of intelligence, it's a matter of personal preference |
| 01:58.00 | rob1n | just because you're a complete fanboy doesn't mean everyone else has to be |
| 01:58.02 | JeffM | the mac was a second comptuer |
| 01:58.11 | JeffM | I replaced it with a laptop |
| 01:58.20 | Djpenguin | robin: its a fact :D |
| 01:58.26 | JeffM | no it was a choice |
| 01:58.32 | rob1n | Djpenguin, are you three years old? |
| 01:58.41 | rob1n | my next computer's probably going to be a PC too |
| 01:58.43 | JeffM | somone else is using the mac just fine, and I think they are happy with it |
| 01:59.03 | Djpenguin | which model mac? |
| 01:59.15 | rob1n | if apple wouldn't use the GMA950 chipset in the macbooks, i'd be happier |
| 01:59.17 | JeffM | it was a mini |
| 01:59.27 | JeffM | yeah intel video sucks |
| 01:59.52 | rob1n | if you want a real GPU you have to bump to a MBP which are expensive as hell compared to macbooks |
| 02:00.15 | rob1n | in short i'm better off cost-wise and in terms of performance by building my own PC :) |
| 02:00.17 | JeffM | and compared to computers with very similar hardware from other companies |
| 02:00.25 | Macrosoft | rob1n: 3k iirc |
| 02:00.33 | Macrosoft | not that much |
| 02:00.43 | JeffM | 500-700$ |
| 02:00.46 | rob1n | Macrosoft, 3k is a lot to some people... |
| 02:00.55 | Macrosoft | rob1n: but you cant build a laptop |
| 02:00.58 | rob1n | especially when you're a student and don't have an income |
| 02:01.03 | rob1n | i don't want a freaking laptop |
| 02:01.03 | JeffM | I can get a 17inch HP with a core 2 for 1400$ |
| 02:01.03 | a_meteorite | I want to get a mini, but the graphics is what's keeping me from just getting it |
| 02:01.07 | rob1n | i want performance |
| 02:01.31 | Djpenguin | im getting an intel mac soon, once leopard comes out |
| 02:01.56 | a_meteorite | as soon as they stick a real video card in the mini, I'll probably get it... |
| 02:02.04 | Constitution | don't hold your breath |
| 02:02.10 | a_meteorite | it'd be nice if they did something like laptops with graphics, where you can at least upgrade it with a mobile card |
| 02:02.23 | rob1n | they won't put anything apart from an integrated in the mac mini |
| 02:02.25 | a_meteorite | Constitution: the ppc mini had a real video card, albiet old |
| 02:02.28 | rob1n | or in the macbook |
| 02:02.32 | JeffM | some companies have more then one card, but it's always propritary |
| 02:02.52 | Constitution | a_meteorite: yes, but Apple seems to be moving away from that as a trend |
| 02:02.56 | rob1n | a_meteorite, you can also bump the core 2 duo processor aftermarket |
| 02:03.04 | a_meteorite | rob1n: yup, that was the plan |
| 02:03.12 | rob1n | i don't htink you can bump the GPU |
| 02:03.15 | a_meteorite | and curiously enough, you can do more than 2GB in the mini as well |
| 02:03.54 | a_meteorite | though, since it's the 945 chipset, it won't recognize all 4GB from what I've heard (something like 3.2GB..) |
| 02:04.03 | a_meteorite | that's just what I've heard so take it with a grain of salt :) |
| 02:04.17 | rob1n | you could also buy a pc |
| 02:04.27 | a_meteorite | I wouldn't be able to live without OS X |
| 02:04.35 | Djpenguin | tell me about it |
| 02:04.41 | Constitution | a_meteorite: ubuntu :P |
| 02:04.55 | a_meteorite | If I could just have OS X and ditch their hardware I would (I know there is ways to do this, but besides the law, it's really a pain to get the right hardware without it breaking) |
| 02:05.27 | Djpenguin | they have some versions for pc's |
| 02:05.34 | a_meteorite | that's just what I said |
| 02:05.44 | Djpenguin | you'd have to find one without viruses |
| 02:05.55 | a_meteorite | but you must break the law, get very particular hardware, and still do a lot of patching to make it work well |
| 02:06.07 | rob1n | *cough* windows *cough* |
| 02:06.16 | a_meteorite | um, based on how much community review is going on, I doubt that they're bugged |
| 02:06.20 | Djpenguin | oops, windows is what i meant |
| 02:06.42 | JeffM | ok, 17 inch macbook pro = 2800$, 17 inch HP = 1589$ |
| 02:06.47 | JeffM | I call that a big dif |
| 02:07.01 | a_meteorite | yum, dinner time |
| 02:07.04 | rob1n | "don't forget you get the OS X OS too!" "what, for $1200?" |
| 02:07.09 | Macrosoft | speaking of computers, i'll be starting to buy the parts for my new box sometime soon |
| 02:07.24 | rob1n | Macrosoft, same here, i'm waiting for intel's 45nm core 2 chips |
| 02:07.31 | a_meteorite | JeffM: it's all about OS X, I know it's very debatable, but I can not imagine going back to Linux or Windows based on the stuff that OS X gives me (iLife, etc) |
| 02:07.42 | rob1n | a_meteorite, you can buy 3 iphones for the difference |
| 02:07.43 | a_meteorite | especially Linux, there's not many iLife replacement apps out there |
| 02:07.57 | JeffM | then I hope you like your 1200$ os ;) |
| 02:08.03 | a_meteorite | heh |
| 02:08.07 | Macrosoft | rob1n: well no, i just havent chosen the parts i want yet |
| 02:08.19 | JeffM | for 1200$ I'm sure you can BUY apps |
| 02:08.28 | rob1n | or pay a programmer to make your own... |
| 02:08.51 | brlcad | if all you look at is the cpu and memory, the diff is pretty big -- the other components (that one may or may not care about) can jack the price up pretty quick |
| 02:08.52 | Macrosoft | or *cough* learn to code *cough* |
| 02:08.56 | rob1n | what's this about "buying" apps? |
| 02:09.17 | brlcad | they're pretty close if you get nearly exactly the same components, like within 2%, at least since going to intel |
| 02:09.18 | JeffM | I did video, batery, display, drives, as close as I could get |
| 02:09.41 | JeffM | every configurable option that I could get he same |
| 02:09.55 | JeffM | yes including built in webcam ;) |
| 02:10.00 | JeffM | and bluetooth |
| 02:10.01 | Macrosoft | what thinks #bzflag of this case: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8013366&type=product&id=1156203597045 |
| 02:10.26 | Macrosoft | ...its the only part i wont be ordering from newegg |
| 02:10.49 | brlcad | chipsets diffs, bluetooth, network ports, usb/firewire ports, display resolution, quality of components (often a major untestable factor), backlighting, expansion ports (to name a few) |
| 02:10.58 | rob1n | Macrosoft, it's pretty cool, but i personally like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119103 |
| 02:10.59 | JeffM | display res I got the same |
| 02:11.06 | JeffM | drive speed I got the same |
| 02:11.14 | rob1n | Macrosoft, but that's a good price |
| 02:11.47 | Macrosoft | rob1n: i dont know if i need its 9 drive bays though :p its a bit overkill |
| 02:12.02 | JeffM | how many USB ports does the 17 have? |
| 02:12.07 | JeffM | I don't care about firewire |
| 02:12.28 | rob1n | Macrosoft, yeah, but i'm getting an 8800GTX, i need all the space i can get ;) |
| 02:12.56 | JeffM | they both have the same video chipset even ;) |
| 02:13.02 | Macrosoft | rob1n: oooh, shiny case is shiny |
| 02:13.20 | Macrosoft | ...the one you linked to |
| 02:13.33 | rob1n | yep |
| 02:13.34 | brlcad | that's the point, there are a lot of nit-pick features that you might not care about, but do cost when you toss them in (granted firewire by itself is probably $50 at most, but case in point) |
| 02:13.35 | rob1n | it's a very nice case |
| 02:13.39 | brlcad | ecc vs non-ecc memory |
| 02:13.39 | rob1n | but it's also $100 more than yours |
| 02:13.46 | JeffM | brlcad: like does it have more then one? |
| 02:13.54 | JeffM | cus I bleive this has firewire, my gateway has firewire |
| 02:14.07 | rob1n | gateway? O_o |
| 02:14.27 | brlcad | hm, on this one (one generation from current iirc), there are 3 usb 2.0 and 2 firewire 2 ports |
| 02:14.47 | rob1n | sweet the Geforce 9xxx cards are starting to come out end of this year |
| 02:14.52 | rob1n | same as the intel 45nm stuff |
| 02:15.00 | Macrosoft | rob1n: and the customer reviews say it's heavy as hell |
| 02:15.04 | JeffM | this has the same USB, and one less firewire |
| 02:15.09 | Macrosoft | 40lb's |
| 02:15.13 | rob1n | Macrosoft, you carrying a huge desktop with you? |
| 02:15.15 | JeffM | the DVI is nice |
| 02:15.44 | Macrosoft | rob1n: just dont need a lead brick around the house :p |
| 02:15.50 | brlcad | yeah, laptop folks gotta be braindead to still be shipping vga connectors |
| 02:16.01 | rob1n | apple ships proprietary port |
| 02:16.08 | rob1n | actually nvm just mini-dvi |
| 02:16.10 | brlcad | no they don't |
| 02:16.11 | JeffM | for my use, I don't realy hook the lapy into another display |
| 02:16.19 | rob1n | but they make you pay $20 or whatever for an adapter |
| 02:16.23 | Macrosoft | dvi is teh awesome |
| 02:16.23 | rob1n | those used to come free with the ibooks |
| 02:16.28 | JeffM | not sure if DVI vs. VGA is worth the cost |
| 02:16.43 | JeffM | I'm trying to find the other nitpickers that add up to the cost dif :) |
| 02:17.13 | brlcad | chipsets and display maker are usually the big ones |
| 02:17.20 | brlcad | i forget who makes the current crop of displays |
| 02:17.28 | *** join/#bzflag Quol (n=ian@modemcable177.75-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 02:17.33 | JeffM | oh and this has an HDMI port ;) |
| 02:17.48 | JeffM | well they both use an intel chipset |
| 02:17.58 | JeffM | and nvidia for graphics |
| 02:18.11 | JeffM | so quality wise I'm going to assume they are similar |
| 02:18.17 | brlcad | other factors, size and weight |
| 02:18.33 | JeffM | how heavy is the 17 mac? |
| 02:18.39 | rob1n | i'd be willing to keep $1200 in my pocket for half a pound or so |
| 02:18.41 | brlcad | if mine was even 1lbs heavier, I'd complain |
| 02:19.16 | brlcad | you comparing to the macbook or the macbook pro? |
| 02:19.22 | JeffM | 17 pri |
| 02:19.24 | JeffM | pro |
| 02:19.29 | brlcad | probably equiv to the macbook.. |
| 02:19.31 | JeffM | looks to be .9 lbs heavier |
| 02:19.37 | JeffM | 7.7 vs 6.8 |
| 02:19.41 | JeffM | not horible |
| 02:19.43 | JeffM | for me at least |
| 02:19.48 | brlcad | the pro is ? |
| 02:19.59 | JeffM | yeah |
| 02:20.00 | brlcad | yowso |
| 02:20.02 | JeffM | acording to apple's site |
| 02:20.09 | JeffM | # Weight: 6.8 pounds (3.08 kg) with battery and optical drive installed |
| 02:20.18 | brlcad | that's probably half the price diff there |
| 02:20.21 | Macrosoft | rob1n: here's an odd one: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8428604&type=product&id=1183160363476 |
| 02:20.28 | brlcad | smaller components, even if they're same chipset |
| 02:20.33 | rob1n | Macrosoft, have to wonder about the airflow? |
| 02:20.53 | JeffM | I like the fact that on the HP I can get 2 internal drives in a raid |
| 02:21.03 | rob1n | you can get RAID in a laptop now? |
| 02:21.06 | rob1n | where have i been? |
| 02:21.13 | JeffM | dual 7200 rpm 120's |
| 02:21.14 | Macrosoft | rob1n: has three fans (i guess they're on the back) |
| 02:21.20 | brlcad | price jacks up fast with size .. I vaguely recalling seeing another that had close to same specs as MBP that weighed even a couple more lbs less, but was like double the price |
| 02:21.28 | rob1n | Macrosoft, meh, i like the ones with airflow front and side too |
| 02:21.34 | JeffM | probably a vio |
| 02:21.42 | JeffM | sony makes small but not cheap stuff |
| 02:21.45 | brlcad | rob1n: you could get raid in a laptop back in the early 90's |
| 02:22.01 | brlcad | just look at any of the old sparc tadpole laptops |
| 02:22.04 | rob1n | i never knew that O_o |
| 02:22.15 | brlcad | yeah, I think it was a sony |
| 02:22.19 | brlcad | they are crazy thin |
| 02:22.38 | JeffM | I shove it all into a backpack, and don't travel far |
| 02:22.41 | rob1n | sony vaios are very pricey |
| 02:22.43 | JeffM | I just like to take it with me |
| 02:22.52 | rob1n | mm RAID 6 in a laptop |
| 02:22.54 | JeffM | and the display size of the 15.4 isn't cutting it |
| 02:22.57 | rob1n | that would be interesting |
| 02:23.45 | brlcad | my 505g was the first sub 1" thick laptop, 3 lbs .. man did I love using that laptop |
| 02:25.44 | JeffM | didn't the pro used to use an ATI chipset? |
| 02:26.36 | rob1n | JeffM, yeah |
| 02:26.38 | rob1n | IIRC |
| 02:27.31 | JeffM | I'm a little depressed that I can't configure a dell the way I want |
| 02:28.15 | *** join/#bzflag Legolas (n=mgin@69.106.189.115) |
| 02:28.22 | Legolas | hey guys |
| 02:28.43 | Legolas | If I wanted to just get a plugin from svn source code, how would i go about doing that? |
| 02:29.02 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-114-71-106.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 02:30.10 | JeffM | you get the entire source tree for bzflag |
| 02:30.14 | JeffM | they are part of it |
| 02:30.22 | JeffM | ibot bzsvn |
| 02:30.22 | ibot | bzsvn is probably http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN and svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag bzflag |
| 02:30.23 | Legolas | yuck |
| 02:30.30 | JeffM | they need parts of bz to build |
| 02:30.34 | JeffM | it's just how it is |
| 02:31.13 | Legolas | so, you can't get the wwzones plugin without the Entire source tree? |
| 02:31.25 | JeffM | you can get the soruce for it sure, but it won't build |
| 02:31.35 | JeffM | you have to run the main bzflag configure to get the makefile for it |
| 02:31.40 | JeffM | and it's build as part of the normal build |
| 02:31.50 | Legolas | ok |
| 02:32.14 | Legolas | so, the .../trunk/bzflag bzflag will get 2.0.8 or 2.2? |
| 02:32.19 | JeffM | 2.2 |
| 02:32.23 | JeffM | read the wiki page |
| 02:32.28 | JeffM | it tells you how to get 2.0.x |
| 02:34.25 | Legolas | and i would use v2.0_branch/bzflag (Space) bzflag right? |
| 02:34.31 | Legolas | would that get the plugin aswell? |
| 02:34.40 | JeffM | it would get the entire tree |
| 02:35.03 | JeffM | or just grab it from one of the 2.0.10 RC tarballs |
| 02:35.11 | Legolas | oh. its in there? |
| 02:35.15 | Legolas | ok. |
| 02:35.27 | JeffM | well yea, it's part of the source tree.... |
| 02:35.40 | Legolas | thanks for telling me! :) |
| 02:35.42 | Macrosoft | rob1n|brb: i see an advantadge to the weird looking case: http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US/images/products/8428/8428604aca.jpg |
| 02:36.01 | rob1n|brb | Macrosoft, not really an advantage for me ;) |
| 02:36.57 | Macrosoft | but other than that, yeah, it sucks |
| 02:38.35 | Legolas | ok, heres a question |
| 02:38.45 | Legolas | if you start a server via ssh |
| 02:39.08 | Legolas | and if you drag /dropped wwzones.so into the directory |
| 02:39.14 | Legolas | would that plugin work? |
| 02:39.15 | JeffM | yes |
| 02:39.22 | Legolas | ok |
| 02:39.26 | JeffM | you can /loadplugin and give it the path anywhere |
| 02:39.46 | JeffM | they don't have to be in any specific dir |
| 02:39.55 | Legolas | k |
| 02:45.06 | Macrosoft | rob1n|brb: i looked at my balance, bills to pay, etc. and it looks like i could get that case on wdnesday, but i wont have anything to put in it |
| 02:45.17 | Macrosoft | *wednesday |
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| 02:48.02 | Legolas | hmm |
| 02:48.15 | Legolas | i get this: invalid ELF header |
| 02:48.35 | Winny | whoa whoa, wait |
| 02:48.42 | Winny | are you doing this on MY server? |
| 02:49.35 | Winny | Legolas: ^ |
| 02:49.50 | JeffM | Legolas: did you compile it ON that server? |
| 02:49.55 | Legolas | no |
| 02:50.07 | JeffM | what did you compile it on? |
| 02:50.21 | Winny | Legolas: is it on My server? |
| 02:50.24 | Legolas | nvm, i know the problem |
| 02:50.30 | Winny | I already have all the plugins compiled |
| 02:51.03 | Legolas | all? |
| 02:51.06 | Winny | indee |
| 02:51.07 | Winny | d |
| 02:51.10 | Legolas | wwzones aswell? |
| 02:51.28 | Winny | /usr/bzplugins/pluginname.so, IIRC. |
| 02:51.45 | Legolas | yikes |
| 02:51.52 | Legolas | i feel stupid |
| 02:52.25 | Winny | hmmmgee |
| 02:52.30 | Winny | its only right here http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=11348 |
| 02:52.56 | Winny | ya know, the place I told you to read? :P |
| 02:53.06 | Legolas | i did, many a weeks ago :P |
| 02:53.24 | JeffM | and you feel that is a valid reason? |
| 02:53.27 | Legolas | not really |
| 02:53.53 | JeffM | then why say it |
| 02:53.59 | JeffM | instead of "oh, sorry, my bad" |
| 02:54.58 | Legolas | good question |
| 02:55.51 | Winny | look, next time, please READ the documentation I wrote to AVOID things like this |
| 02:59.11 | Winny | Legolas: are we clear here? |
| 03:01.52 | Legolas | yes winny |
| 03:02.01 | Winny | good |
| 03:05.01 | Macrosoft | but he didnt answer in the form of a question |
| 03:09.25 | JeffM | mmm 20 inch laptop |
| 03:09.35 | a_meteorite | 20 inch laptop? that must be new |
| 03:09.39 | JeffM | not realy |
| 03:09.43 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:10.11 | Winny | JeffM: isn't that more of a lap desk? |
| 03:10.19 | a_meteorite | "portable desktop" |
| 03:10.30 | JeffM | desktop replacement is oftne the term |
| 03:10.50 | JeffM | only 4350$ :) |
| 03:10.55 | Winny | rofl.. |
| 03:11.00 | a_meteorite | oh, yeah, really affordable |
| 03:11.26 | Winny | IMO, anything above 15 is too big... 17 is pushing it |
| 03:11.29 | JeffM | for a portable 2.8 gig core 2 |
| 03:11.39 | a_meteorite | oh, wow, that's a screamer... |
| 03:11.46 | JeffM | if you travel a lot and need a biger screen |
| 03:11.57 | JeffM | not all laptops are used in airports ;) |
| 03:11.59 | a_meteorite | now it'd be pretty interesting to build your own 20" laptop and see what the cost is :) |
| 03:12.15 | JeffM | it's be cheaper, and waighmore |
| 03:12.18 | Winny | dangit, IRC keeps making me not sleep |
| 03:12.19 | JeffM | as blrcad said |
| 03:12.35 | JeffM | laptop "shells"? |
| 03:12.38 | a_meteorite | the case |
| 03:12.40 | a_meteorite | and LCD |
| 03:12.41 | JeffM | usualy lapy's take custom motherboards |
| 03:12.49 | JeffM | it's not like ATX or something fits in there |
| 03:12.57 | a_meteorite | I know, I've worked on them |
| 03:13.07 | JeffM | where do they sell these "shells"? |
| 03:13.47 | a_meteorite | well, motherboard too.. |
| 03:13.54 | JeffM | where? I'd like to know |
| 03:14.03 | a_meteorite | something like this: http://laptoplogic.com/resources/detail.php?id=22 (a review) |
| 03:20.06 | JeffM | they seem very rare |
| 03:21.13 | JeffM | and you can only realy choose the CPU |
| 03:21.32 | JeffM | so it's simpler to just get a retail one with the CPU and video you want, and swap out ram and drives it seems |
| 03:21.48 | a_meteorite | yeah, way more up to date |
| 03:21.59 | a_meteorite | it sounds like it could be a fun project though.. |
| 03:22.19 | JeffM | what puting in one drive and one CPU? |
| 03:22.22 | JeffM | no thanks |
| 03:22.30 | a_meteorite | heh |
| 03:23.03 | JeffM | retail ones that have better stuff then that MSI one go for under 700$ |
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| 03:39.11 | menotume | You better head back to Tennessee Jed. |
| 03:39.29 | Tennessee_Jed | fell four flights and broke my spine... |
| 03:39.33 | Djpenguin | clever meno, clever |
| 03:39.43 | menotume | Honey, come quick with the iodine |
| 03:39.58 | Tennessee_Jed | hehehehe...you got it, meno... |
| 03:40.08 | menotume | <== former deadhead :) |
| 03:40.27 | Tennessee_Jed | <=current deadhead (5500+ hrs of soundboards)... |
| 03:40.35 | menotume | eeek |
| 03:40.50 | Tennessee_Jed | 2.2TB and counting... |
| 03:40.54 | menotume | lol |
| 03:41.19 | Tennessee_Jed | i'll need grant money to keep it up, tho... |
| 03:42.39 | menotume | had a friend who went to almost every dead concert |
| 03:42.43 | menotume | back in the 70s - 80s |
| 03:42.59 | menotume | he had no job, inherited a bunch of money |
| 03:43.07 | menotume | knew all the bandmembers :) |
| 03:43.19 | menotume | a dead roadie |
| 03:43.25 | Tennessee_Jed | lot of 'heads like that...no visible means of support... |
| 03:43.30 | menotume | ya |
| 03:43.49 | Tennessee_Jed | i got on the bus in '73... |
| 03:43.54 | menotume | cool |
| 03:44.11 | menotume | ah, an old fart, like me :P |
| 03:44.17 | Tennessee_Jed | but mostly ignored the band in the '80s... |
| 03:44.44 | Tennessee_Jed | caught em one last time in '95...so sad, really... |
| 03:44.49 | menotume | ya |
| 03:45.06 | menotume | my friend died right after Jerry |
| 03:45.13 | Djpenguin | my dad has all there records |
| 03:45.20 | Tennessee_Jed | bobby rode jerry like a rented mule and he finally gave out...imho |
| 03:45.30 | menotume | ahh |
| 03:45.58 | Tennessee_Jed | got broadband about five years ago and hooked up with tapers... |
| 03:46.08 | menotume | ya, lot's of em out there |
| 03:46.18 | Tennessee_Jed | the rest is, um, history...my wife will be killing me soon... |
| 03:46.22 | menotume | hehe |
| 03:46.37 | menotume | well, not many bands would let you tap off the sounboard like they did :) |
| 03:47.13 | Tennessee_Jed | nope...got almost 2300 sources of almost 1500 dates...it's evolved into an obsession |
| 03:47.21 | menotume | wowie |
| 03:47.51 | Tennessee_Jed | times i feel like richard dreyfuss staring into mashed potatoes... |
| 03:47.58 | menotume | :D |
| 03:48.11 | Tennessee_Jed | i.e., what does it all mean? |
| 03:48.14 | menotume | ya |
| 03:48.23 | menotume | don't try to figure it out :) |
| 03:48.31 | menotume | it's just a collection/hobby |
| 03:48.34 | Tennessee_Jed | no way...i just roll with it... |
| 03:48.58 | menotume | well, i g2g, cu l8r |
| 03:49.03 | Tennessee_Jed | yep..laters |
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| 04:14.30 | Tennessee_Jed | any devs in? |
| 04:14.35 | blast007 | yup |
| 04:14.57 | Tennessee_Jed | been having an issue with pauses in bzflag... |
| 04:15.07 | Tennessee_Jed | 1-2 secs every 10-15 secs... |
| 04:15.18 | blast007 | Ubuntu 7.10? |
| 04:15.23 | Tennessee_Jed | yep... |
| 04:15.49 | rob1n | why do you put three dots after each of your sentences... |
| 04:15.49 | Tennessee_Jed | fired up bzflag on my desktop, then went to text console... |
| 04:16.01 | blast007 | Tennessee_Jed: was it you that was here before with that problem? |
| 04:16.04 | Tennessee_Jed | ellipsis indicating continuation |
| 04:16.10 | Tennessee_Jed | yes |
| 04:16.13 | blast007 | ok |
| 04:16.50 | blast007 | maybe I'll have to install Ubuntu 7.10 on my lappy at some point |
| 04:17.00 | Tennessee_Jed | bzflag is consuming 90+% of my CPU...basically every cycle that isn't being used by something else |
| 04:17.03 | blast007 | Tennessee_Jed: what CPU? |
| 04:17.07 | blast007 | right, it's supposed to |
| 04:17.12 | Tennessee_Jed | athlon XP 3200+ |
| 04:17.41 | Djpenguin | can you dual os boot with ubuntu? |
| 04:17.49 | Tennessee_Jed | i'm not sure i've ever cpu util that high in the 4+ years I've been using bzflag... |
| 04:17.49 | blast007 | Djpenguin: sure, why not? |
| 04:17.54 | Djpenguin | jw |
| 04:18.12 | blast007 | unless you have vsync (and the machine is capable of exceeding that FPS) or if you turn on the energy saver, it will render as fast as possible |
| 04:18.18 | Djpenguin | i use debian as my distribution, and it works fine, but i was thinking of tryin some others |
| 04:18.31 | blast007 | of course, if it was a dual core machine, that would only get it to 50%, since it's pretty much a single thread |
| 04:18.38 | blast007 | audio might have it's own thread |
| 04:18.44 | Tennessee_Jed | i'm running vsync... |
| 04:18.57 | Tennessee_Jed | 60fps... |
| 04:19.13 | blast007 | what can you get for an FPS without vsync? |
| 04:19.24 | Tennessee_Jed | btw, everything was peachy with 7.04... |
| 04:19.50 | Tennessee_Jed | hold one sec... |
| 04:19.54 | JeffM | can you install a non tickless kernel and see |
| 04:19.59 | JeffM | cus well MAYBE it is that kernel |
| 04:21.02 | Tennessee_Jed | not sure kernel w/ticks is possible with 7.10...too many low-level things expect it, i fear... |
| 04:21.19 | blast007 | Tennessee_Jed: build your own kernel with that flag turned off |
| 04:21.52 | Tennessee_Jed | i'll have to research whether that's possible... |
| 04:21.53 | blast007 | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureTicklessKernel <-- "Contingency Plan" |
| 04:22.21 | Tennessee_Jed | reading... |
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| 04:23.55 | Tennessee_Jed | i'm disinclined (now) to believe it's the kernel, and here's why... |
| 04:24.14 | Tennessee_Jed | tickless introduced in .21 and that was 6+ months ago... |
| 04:24.28 | JeffM | then what do you think it is? |
| 04:24.37 | Tennessee_Jed | if tickless was an issue, i'm fairly certain you would have heard something... |
| 04:24.42 | JeffM | cus you've shown that our code hasn't changed |
| 04:25.43 | blast007 | Tennessee_Jed: did you try bzflag 6 months ago? |
| 04:25.53 | Tennessee_Jed | code's fine and gutsy repo bzflag exhibits same behavior... |
| 04:26.06 | JeffM | then it's somethign on your system |
| 04:26.09 | Tennessee_Jed | been playing for 4+ years, various distros and hardware... |
| 04:26.48 | Tennessee_Jed | i did a network upgrade...may just wipe the drive and do a clean install... |
| 04:26.52 | JeffM | I know it works on some current systems, cus one of the ubuntu package mantainers was trying to get us to do a 2.0.10 for this release |
| 04:26.56 | JeffM | and he must have tested |
| 04:27.33 | Tennessee_Jed | it may well be an issue, um, beyond the keyboard... |
| 04:27.44 | JeffM | but at some point your going to have to do the debuging work to figure out what it is |
| 04:27.50 | JeffM | as your the only person reporting the issue |
| 04:28.13 | JeffM | and coming back every day or so and jsut saying "I have a problem on ubuntu" isn't going to magicaly get it fixed |
| 04:28.19 | Tennessee_Jed | that seems to be the case...i have found no other reports... |
| 04:28.46 | a_meteorite | Have you thought about posting in the Ubuntu forums and asking if anyone else plays BZFlag and experiences this problem? |
| 04:29.00 | Tennessee_Jed | yep...did...no replies... |
| 04:29.11 | Tennessee_Jed | another clue, perhaps... |
| 04:29.20 | Tennessee_Jed | oh well, thanks for the time... |
| 04:29.43 | JeffM | I'd see if you can log out where your CPU goes during those times |
| 04:29.50 | JeffM | is it spend in bz, or does something else grab it |
| 04:29.54 | JeffM | like X or something |
| 04:30.14 | Tennessee_Jed | yes... |
| 04:30.30 | JeffM | if you've got all that fancy openGL X stuff going on, it may sill be rendering |
| 04:30.37 | blast007 | Tennessee_Jed: is that the x64 edition, or x86? |
| 04:30.41 | JeffM | and that could blow out our context, and force us to reload |
| 04:30.51 | Tennessee_Jed | x86 |
| 04:30.54 | JeffM | every time our context is blown out, we have to reload textures |
| 04:31.23 | Tennessee_Jed | the periodic nature of the pauses is perplexing... |
| 04:31.41 | Tennessee_Jed | i've topped the system with and w/o bzflag running... |
| 04:31.54 | Tennessee_Jed | ...and nothing appears aberrant... |
| 04:32.21 | JeffM | yeah but with out bzflag runing you don't have 2 things demanding time from the open GL part of your driver |
| 04:32.35 | Tennessee_Jed | top is a crude tool, tho... |
| 04:32.51 | Tennessee_Jed | well, it may be a driver issue, too... |
| 04:33.05 | JeffM | what driver do you run? |
| 04:33.12 | Tennessee_Jed | nvidia... |
| 04:33.15 | JeffM | and is it "nv" or "nvidia"? |
| 04:33.20 | Tennessee_Jed | nvidia... |
| 04:33.34 | JeffM | from a package or from the site? |
| 04:34.04 | Tennessee_Jed | i had the site driver, but when i upped to gutsy, i used the repo version... |
| 04:34.22 | a_meteorite | I bet they don't use the non-free stuff |
| 04:34.36 | JeffM | they do a_meteorite it's just not isntalled by defualt |
| 04:34.41 | a_meteorite | ah |
| 04:34.50 | JeffM | mayhaps you want to check and see if the package one is older |
| 04:34.55 | Tennessee_Jed | nah, the repo installs the non-free components... |
| 04:35.13 | Tennessee_Jed | ..but i'm not sure whether the old site driver was cleanly removed... |
| 04:35.31 | Tennessee_Jed | ...which could lead to a component mismatch |
| 04:35.51 | Tennessee_Jed | i'll check that out right now... |
| 04:35.59 | Tennessee_Jed | thanks for the time, again... |
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| 04:37.17 | JeffM | ahh now this is a good name for a dog "The Filthspigot" |
| 04:37.30 | blast007 | heh |
| 04:39.24 | blast007 | I'll see about giving Ubuntu 7.10 a try |
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| 06:33.13 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9453 || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || http://my.bzflag.org/w/ || 2.0.10rc3 in progress |
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| 16:39.12 | storyteller | Hello all. I'm trying to build from cvs and compilation goes fine, but make install errors out with: /bin/sh: /usr/share/bzflag/l10n: No such file or directory. Has anyone had this issue or know a fix? |
| 16:40.08 | storyteller | Bullet Catcher emailed me a possible fix for an issue I've had for years with my tank freezing when contacting teleporters I'm eager to try |
| 16:40.59 | storyteller | I added -ffast-math to my CXXFLAGS, but otherwise am building with stock options |
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| 17:13.54 | Erroneous | storyteller: by cvs, I assume you mean svn? and which branch? |
| 17:14.59 | storyteller | Following sourceforges instructions I did: cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@bzflag.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/bzflag co -P bzflag |
| 17:15.16 | ruskie | storyteller, cvs is deprecated |
| 17:15.20 | ruskie | ~bzsvn |
| 17:15.21 | ibot | bzsvn is, like, http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN and svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag bzflag |
| 17:15.25 | ruskie | storyteller, try that :) |
| 17:15.39 | storyteller | Will do, thanks :) |
| 17:17.58 | storyteller | I'm not very knowledgeable with cvs or svn, but a friend gave me a link on how to svn my $HOME folder so I have universal settings from any *nix machine, so I've been meaning to learn more about svn |
| 17:18.29 | ruskie | svn isn't really the best for that :) git or any other that can do various branches would be better ;) |
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| 17:19.03 | storyteller | I only recently heard of git |
| 17:19.30 | storyteller | Due to compiz-fusion using git and such..I did a little reading up on it, but what I read was mostly over my head |
| 17:21.27 | gsnedders | best advice I can give you to understand it: ignore everything you know about SVN/CVS |
| 17:22.17 | ruskie | yup |
| 17:22.56 | gsnedders | I've been using Mercurial, not git, though. Very similar in all but a few implementation details |
| 17:22.57 | storyteller | That's easy...I know very little |
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| 17:23.25 | ruskie | gsnedders, just a few... C vs python :) |
| 17:23.28 | ruskie | speed :) |
| 17:23.31 | storyteller | I'm still trying to lose my bad habits froom learning BASIC so I can feel at home in the *nix environment |
| 17:23.35 | ruskie | or it used to be :) |
| 17:23.40 | gsnedders | ruskie: both are quicker at different things |
| 17:23.49 | JeffM | oh don't get started on git |
| 17:23.51 | JeffM | ;) |
| 17:24.02 | ruskie | gsnedders, at the time we were testing it it was slower than a snail :) |
| 17:24.06 | ruskie | they did improve though |
| 17:24.20 | storyteller | Been studying bash scripting and such...finally getting used to writing without line numbers lol |
| 17:24.21 | ruskie | JeffM, don't worry not in the mood to burn stuff :) |
| 17:24.27 | gsnedders | ruskie: on what FS? |
| 17:24.49 | ruskie | gsnedders, different ones... |
| 17:24.55 | ruskie | gsnedders, but that was well over a year ago |
| 17:25.25 | gsnedders | ruskie: ah. git was written mainly to be quick on ext3 was it not? |
| 17:25.36 | ruskie | it was written to be quick :) |
| 17:25.39 | ruskie | that's all it ever was :) |
| 17:26.07 | ruskie | but of course it grinds to a halt on a networked FS just like anything else :) |
| 17:26.18 | gsnedders | ruskie: in parts down to knowledge of how the FS works, which would limit some things to be ultra-quick only on one or two FSs |
| 17:26.46 | storyteller | Anyone know any online resources for learning C/C++ for beginners? I've googled a great number of times, and I'm always referred to large books which are both expensive and inconvienient |
| 17:33.10 | JeffM | there are many good tutorials on the net |
| 17:33.32 | JeffM | http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/tutorial/ |
| 17:34.39 | Sicshooter | Thank you...I'll check into it. And thanks ruskie, svn seems to have compiled and installed properly :) |
| 17:45.24 | Sicshooter | Hmmm...compiles and installs fine, but fails to start with: No fonts found (the -directory option may help). Exiting. |
| 17:45.37 | Sicshooter | Didn't have that issue with 2.0.8 |
| 17:45.57 | JeffM | you didn't do a make install did you? |
| 17:46.03 | Sicshooter | yes |
| 17:46.06 | Sicshooter | I shouldn't? |
| 17:46.18 | JeffM | and you still had 2.0.8 installed? |
| 17:46.21 | Sicshooter | no |
| 17:46.23 | Sicshooter | I uninstalled it |
| 17:46.34 | JeffM | did you do the install as root? |
| 17:46.39 | Sicshooter | I built 2.0.8 from an archlinux |
| 17:46.52 | JeffM | basicly it looks for the data dir in a specific place |
| 17:47.05 | JeffM | if it's not there, you get that message, cus it can't find the data/fonts dir |
| 17:47.17 | Sicshooter | I built 2.0.8 from an archlinux PKGBUILD and it runs fine if I set my flags in the configure line |
| 17:47.34 | JeffM | we didn't make that package so I don't know what it idid |
| 17:47.36 | JeffM | did |
| 17:49.03 | Sicshooter | I removed the package and installed from svn, and even tried adding --with-ft-prefix=/usr/include (Which seems to be the location of my truetype fonts) and also tried playing with each font realted option in configure --help, but no change |
| 17:49.25 | JeffM | no it's not a build time eror |
| 17:49.27 | JeffM | it's a run time |
| 17:49.38 | Sicshooter | The pkgbuild is simply a build script that downloads, extracts and builds from source with the only config change being --prefix=/usr |
| 17:49.46 | JeffM | when you did the make install after doing the make, did you do it as root? |
| 17:49.53 | Sicshooter | yes |
| 17:50.00 | JeffM | where did it put the data dir? |
| 17:50.47 | Sicshooter | in /use/share/bzflag |
| 17:50.51 | Sicshooter | usr* |
| 17:51.07 | JeffM | was this SVN trunk or 2.0.x branch? |
| 17:51.43 | Sicshooter | svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag bzflag |
| 17:52.24 | Sicshooter | I'm not sure the structure of the svn tree |
| 17:52.31 | JeffM | so dev code |
| 17:52.31 | JeffM | let me check where it's looking for the data at |
| 17:53.19 | *** join/#bzflag JeffMFishbone (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
| 17:53.34 | Sicshooter | Thanks again :) |
| 17:53.41 | JeffMFishbone | stupid peer |
| 17:53.52 | JeffMFishbone | you do know that the version you got is incompatable with current servers right |
| 17:54.08 | Sicshooter | No...I didn't... |
| 17:54.09 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 17:54.16 | Sicshooter | Is it best that I stay with 2.0.8? |
| 17:54.18 | JeffM2501 | you got the dev version |
| 17:54.24 | JeffM2501 | it will be released as 2.2 |
| 17:54.30 | Sicshooter | I see |
| 17:54.32 | JeffM2501 | you want the 2.0.x branch |
| 17:54.44 | JeffM2501 | that will give you the RC code for 2.0.10 |
| 17:54.51 | JeffM2501 | it is compatable |
| 17:55.32 | Sicshooter | Ok...then I should be set with just changing the CXXFLAGS in my PKGBUILD. Thanks again |
| 17:55.34 | JeffM2501 | http://my.bzflag.org/w/SVN |
| 17:55.47 | JeffM2501 | that shows how to get the branch |
| 17:58.32 | Sicshooter | I'm glad to finally be rid of that teleporter bug...some of my favorite maps were simply unplayable due to that bug...the 2 tanks, and especially lasermania are very difficult to have fun with...lasermania always ends with me getting GMed from behind and I can't do anything about it since my tank freezes on contact with teleporters or the treads on 2 tanks |
| 17:58.50 | JeffM2501 | ATI card? |
| 17:58.53 | Sicshooter | nvidia |
| 17:58.58 | JeffM2501 | odd |
| 17:59.01 | JeffM2501 | what driver? |
| 17:59.39 | Sicshooter | I've actually had the same issue spanning across several different cards without fail for prolly 4 years now. currently using proprietary nvidia driver |
| 17:59.51 | Thumper_ | Sicshooter: so what did you do to fix it? |
| 18:00.19 | Sicshooter | Thumper_: I added -ffast-math to my CXXFLAGS |
| 18:00.31 | Sicshooter | Bullet catcher emailed me the fix :) |
| 18:00.35 | Thumper_ | ok thx |
| 18:00.47 | JeffM2501 | then you realy want 2.0.10 |
| 18:01.04 | JeffM2501 | IIRC fastmath can mess with the float packing in .8 |
| 18:02.08 | Thumper_ | I've had the stuck teleporter issue as well (ATI card on Debian) but I don't currently have a usable client to test with since I borked by Xorg installation :-P |
| 18:02.39 | Sicshooter | JeffM2501: checking it out now |
| 18:03.34 | Sicshooter | Thumper_: I added CXXFLAGS=-ffast-math to my ./configure options with 2.0.8 and tested it on the 2 tanks map, and it worked beautifully |
| 18:04.08 | Thumper_ | Sicshooter: thx |
| 18:04.08 | Sicshooter | Thumper_: How did you damage your xorg install? |
| 18:04.24 | Thumper_ | fglrx driver isn't new enough to use the new Xorg api |
| 18:04.43 | ruskie | I'm always amazed how ppl have som cuh issues with ati cards... |
| 18:04.49 | Thumper_ | X works.. just not acceleated driver currently |
| 18:04.53 | Thumper_ | not->no |
| 18:05.06 | Thumper_ | which makes bzflag a bit too painful |
| 18:05.15 | ruskie | then I remember that ppl just blindly buy withouth actually checking if their card works with the free drivers... |
| 18:05.44 | Sicshooter | Thumper_: What card? |
| 18:05.53 | Thumper_ | ruskie: it sorta works with the free ati driver... but some stuff renders wrong |
| 18:05.55 | ruskie | I've been using nothing but ati cards in the last 10 years and had no issues |
| 18:06.00 | Thumper_ | old ATI Radeon 9000 |
| 18:06.20 | Thumper_ | ruskie: it worked great before I upgraded Xorg :) |
| 18:06.25 | ruskie | though now somehow my z-buffer is having issues(or so JeffM2501 told me when I showede the screenies) |
| 18:06.42 | Thumper_ | and some stuff doesn't look right with the free driver (textures etc) |
| 18:06.57 | ruskie | but I haven't yet found another GL app to test to see if it's only bzflag related or anything else |
| 18:07.46 | JeffM2501 | yeah your depth buffer was WACKED |
| 18:08.01 | Sicshooter | Thumper_: I would have a look through your package manager log and see if you can find the xorg packages which were upgraded and try rolling them back one at a time to see if you can find which package is at fault |
| 18:08.06 | ruskie | yeah I still hit it at times... |
| 18:08.21 | ruskie | but it seems to happen less often when it's cooler aronud here... |
| 18:08.28 | ruskie | so might be the card that's starting to show wear and tear |
| 18:08.48 | Thumper_ | Sicshooter: my problem is I have other more pressing things I _have_ to do... so it'll just have to wait for now |
| 18:09.14 | Sicshooter | I understand...I'm still wintarded after using linux for 5 years for the same reason |
| 18:26.53 | *** join/#bzflag noyb (n=noyb@pool-71-108-80-158.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 18:29.21 | *** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@89.159.216.39) |
| 18:31.14 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
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| 18:33.05 | Sicshooter | JeffM2501: 2.0.10 compiled and installed fine. Seems to play smoothly and without issue. Thanks again for the help :) |
| 18:40.03 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@75.15.122.113) |
| 18:47.05 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-114-71-106.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 18:54.32 | a_meteorite | I have a question for any bzbb admins out there... (brlcad?) |
| 18:55.11 | a_meteorite | I need to make an announcement to my admins, would it be alright if I PM'ed them all in one big batch? I know in the past there has been a question to the use of PM scripts. |
| 18:55.33 | a_meteorite | But they wouldn't have a problem receiving the PM. It's pretty dire and related to BZFlag. |
| 18:59.07 | *** join/#bzflag PrezKennedy (n=Matt@74.86.45.130) |
| 19:03.33 | Winny | a_meteorite: I think that will make everyone become emo |
| 19:03.49 | a_meteorite | Winny: Um. No comment? |
| 19:04.06 | Winny | good |
| 19:04.19 | a_meteorite | I'm already emo, so that's irrelevant. :D |
| 19:07.38 | Thumper_ | a_meteorite: IIRC there's a limit where it stops allowings posts after so many for some timeout period (10 minutes?) bzbb isn't suited well for mass mailings |
| 19:07.54 | Thumper_ | s/allowings/allowing/ |
| 19:08.22 | a_meteorite | Thumper_: Hmmm, I didn't know about that. Though if for special circumstances (since they should expect communications from the server owner), if I can sidestep that, would it be allowed? |
| 19:08.31 | Thumper_ | I've hit that in the past before our mailing list was set up |
| 19:08.49 | a_meteorite | Hmmm, ok |
| 19:09.04 | a_meteorite | I prefer PM's cause it notifies you in BZFlag. Pretty handy. |
| 19:09.14 | Erroneous | a_meteorite: generally speaking, it's only a problem if we get complaints about it. if they're expecting it, that's fine. |
| 19:10.30 | a_meteorite | Erroneous: Thanks, OK. Since we're on the subject, I figured I'd do one more question... |
| 19:10.53 | a_meteorite | I'm sure you've heard of CAN, the idea that Jeff came up with but later abandoned, well, we've (BZFX & Friends) have picked the idea up. |
| 19:11.38 | a_meteorite | We figured the best way to notify someone when they break a CAN rule would to send a PM with a link to their incident ID so they can dispute it and describing what the offense was. |
| 19:11.57 | a_meteorite | I know L4m3r didn't like this vehemently, but again it is BZFlag related, and it's not mass mailings. It's just notifying that one person what happened. |
| 19:12.22 | a_meteorite | Many would probably be unaware what CAN is or how to use it, thus that's why we figured a PM with a link describing where to go from there would be best. |
| 19:12.36 | Erroneous | I think it'd be more appropriate to put that link in the kick or ban message |
| 19:12.43 | a_meteorite | Not long enough. |
| 19:12.56 | Erroneous | eh? you should have ~128 characters |
| 19:13.06 | a_meteorite | Well, that's not very long if you want to describe why. |
| 19:13.10 | Erroneous | if it won't fit, sounds like you need shorter urls |
| 19:13.10 | a_meteorite | And a link. |
| 19:13.32 | a_meteorite | Though I could probably have the plugin send a message *before* disconnecting the user, and split it on a couple lines... |
| 19:13.53 | Erroneous | teamkilling (http://xyz.bzfs.net/?13445) - not that long |
| 19:14.54 | Erroneous | and yeah, you could have it do the "long explanation" beforehand |
| 19:15.43 | a_meteorite | Er, something with a bit more information than that. Like "You can dispute the offense here - http://can.bzfx.net/ID0000001.\n You were banned for breaking the CAN rule of intentional teamkilling and/or capturing your team flag." |
| 19:16.02 | a_meteorite | Well, I guess multiple lines would work. PMs made a lot of sense too, though. :) |
| 19:17.30 | Winny | The fun never ends! http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=11627 |
| 19:17.35 | a_meteorite | (it'd be easy just to click the link in your browser instead of copy it, and can include a much more detailed explanation in the length of paragraphs, which would be hard to read in your console) |
| 19:17.52 | a_meteorite | Winny: heh, read that |
| 19:18.19 | a_meteorite | I didn't have the gumption to actually respond to that sanely. |
| 19:19.17 | Winny | me either |
| 19:19.24 | Winny | I calmly closed my browser |
| 19:19.27 | Erroneous | Winny: it's better and more original than a lot of ideas we get :) |
| 19:19.44 | a_meteorite | ~pw |
| 19:19.44 | ibot | patches welcome is probably a common response by maintainers of Open Source products. It's roughly means "We don't have much time on our hands, so if you write that feature and send it to us we will likely roll it in. If you don't have the time to write it, we don't either. Stop asking for it." |
| 19:19.53 | Winny | hehe |
| 19:19.59 | Winny | I TINK UR TURRUTS SHULD TURN |
| 19:20.25 | L4m3r | no |
| 19:20.26 | a_meteorite | Ahaha, remember that one guy who insisted BZFlag was stuck forever in the dark ages and that everyone wanted turning turrets? |
| 19:20.39 | L4m3r | the really stupid ones don't even know what a turret is |
| 19:20.43 | Winny | although, I still think a flag that makes your tank stationary, but allows for a moving turret would be cool |
| 19:20.59 | a_meteorite | Winny: you will die in BZFlag hell for that! |
| 19:21.04 | Winny | oh well |
| 19:21.06 | L4m3r | "durrrrrr... you should be able to aim without moving" |
| 19:21.21 | L4m3r | Winny: so, prevent the tank from driving forward or backward. BAM! :P |
| 19:21.40 | *** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@89.159.216.39) |
| 19:29.56 | Sicshooter | I compiled 2.0.10 from svn with CXXFLAGS=-ffast-math to try and fix an issue with my tank becoming sealed when making contact with teleporters, and it seemed to fix the problem, but now I become sealed on surfaces that i previously didn't before... |
| 19:31.06 | a_meteorite | Sicshooter: It doesn't work fine with default flags? |
| 19:31.12 | Sicshooter | But at least I have 2 clients to choose from depending on the map I want to play lol |
| 19:32.02 | Sicshooter | a_meteorite: No...certain maps give me sealed status when touching teleporters or certain surfaces. 2 Tanks map seals me when touching the treads of the large tanks for example |
| 19:32.05 | *** join/#bzflag patlkli (n=patlkli@unixboard/users/patlkli) |
| 19:32.58 | Sicshooter | I become sealed when touching the teleporters on 2 tanks and lasermania...so if someone gets in my tower with GM I can't do anything about it |
| 19:36.22 | Sicshooter | This has happened on several nvidia cards and it's been happening for about 4 years now. setup: athlon XP3000+, 2 gig DDR2, Archlinux, Currently custom kernel (though this has happened on at least a dozen different kernels), 2.0.10 svn client at present |
| 19:36.44 | a_meteorite | Have you tried 2.0.8 stable? |
| 19:36.48 | Sicshooter | yes |
| 19:37.34 | Sicshooter | That's what I was using until this morning when I built 2.0.10 after Bullet Catcher gave me the tip on the flags |
| 19:38.25 | Sicshooter | A number of people I've talked to have the same issue...all on linux |
| 19:39.25 | ruskie | only times I get stuck is with some odd jumps onto the porters |
| 19:40.22 | Sicshooter | It happens without fail any time I touch the treads on 2 tanks, and every time with the center lasermania teleporter |
| 19:40.57 | Thumper_ | Sicshooter: if you have enough headroom you can jump into the teleporter... but that's a poor temporary fix |
| 19:41.16 | Sicshooter | I filed a bug report and Bullet Catcher responded with a possible workaround that works for him, but it seems to cause odd new problems for me |
| 19:41.38 | JeffM2501 | fast math didn't cut it so well? |
| 19:41.58 | Sicshooter | Thumper_: I use that on the maps it works on, but some maps seal me regardless |
| 19:43.12 | Sicshooter | JeffM2501: I tested 2.0.10 with CXXFLAGS=-ffast-math and 2 tanks worked fine. Lasermaina started having strange graphics glitches and I became sealed on the top surfaces of walls |
| 19:43.43 | JeffM2501 | yeah that does change the result of some of the floating point math |
| 19:44.43 | JeffM2501 | does seem odd that fog woudl screw up the driver |
| 19:46.21 | JeffM2501 | wonder if your kicking into fakefog |
| 19:47.39 | JeffM2501 | do you know what openGL version you have? |
| 19:58.38 | JeffM2501 | well you could make a one line change too and test to see if it's the fog hack if you wanted too |
| 20:01.19 | Sicshooter | Sorry..was away testing. 2.0.8 compiled with fast math seems to work ok...it doesn't have any of the glitches I was seeing on 2.0.10, at least on lasermania |
| 20:02.43 | JeffM2501 | the thing that worieis me is WHY the fog freaks out on a normal build for oyu |
| 20:02.44 | JeffM2501 | you |
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| 20:05.36 | Sicshooter | And I'm currently using mesa 6.5.2 |
| 20:05.56 | ruskie | try upping to 7.0.1 it works great :) |
| 20:06.23 | JeffM2501 | if your using nviida, then you should not be using mesa at all |
| 20:06.33 | JeffM2501 | but what openGL version |
| 20:06.35 | JeffM2501 | not mesa |
| 20:06.39 | JeffM2501 | 1.0? 1.1? |
| 20:07.13 | JeffM2501 | but if you want, try to comment out the 3 lines starting at line 177 in sceneRenderer.cxx |
| 20:07.16 | JeffM2501 | then build that |
| 20:07.24 | Sicshooter | I thought mesa provided opengl...I have no opengl package on my machine |
| 20:07.26 | JeffM2501 | just add // before each line |
| 20:07.30 | JeffM2501 | mesa does provide GL |
| 20:07.37 | JeffM2501 | for software |
| 20:07.51 | ruskie | and also provides some Free GL drivers |
| 20:07.53 | JeffM2501 | usualy nvidia has an nvDev package |
| 20:08.03 | JeffM2501 | since they do there own hardware GL implemenation |
| 20:08.06 | JeffM2501 | what distro are you on? |
| 20:08.12 | Sicshooter | archlinux |
| 20:08.24 | JeffM2501 | dunno what that one is based on |
| 20:08.40 | Sicshooter | Originally CRUX from what I've been told |
| 20:08.59 | Sicshooter | It uses pacman rather than apt |
| 20:09.14 | JeffM2501 | did you get the nvidia driver from the nvidia website? or from some package? |
| 20:10.45 | Sicshooter | I built the driver I'm currently using from the 100.14.11-pkg.run file I got from the nvidia site |
| 20:11.02 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 20:11.09 | JeffM2501 | well comment out those lines |
| 20:11.19 | JeffM2501 | see if that helps with the teleporter lockup |
| 20:11.25 | Sicshooter | Though I've had the same issue with the official arch binaries as well |
| 20:12.57 | JeffM2501 | it could be that we think we have to do the fog hack when we don't |
| 20:13.07 | JeffM2501 | the test for it is not good I fear |
| 20:13.27 | JeffM2501 | comment out those 3 lines and build with out fast math, and see how it goes |
| 20:14.09 | *** join/#bzflag Digital_Pioneer (n=digitalp@70.249.188.7) |
| 20:14.22 | Digital_Pioneer | So just curious, how active is BZF development? |
| 20:14.36 | JeffM2501 | 53 |
| 20:14.38 | a_meteorite | couple commits a day on average |
| 20:14.42 | JeffM2501 | out of awesome |
| 20:14.49 | Digital_Pioneer | JeffM2501: Hahahah |
| 20:15.06 | JeffM2501 | ask a silly, get a silly |
| 20:15.10 | Digital_Pioneer | Also curious, are things like animated maps or scripted maps ever in the development? |
| 20:15.24 | JeffM2501 | ever is a long time, so there is no answer for that |
| 20:15.37 | JeffM2501 | draw info can allow for some visual only animiation |
| 20:15.43 | Digital_Pioneer | s/development/works/ |
| 20:15.57 | JeffM2501 | and you can use server side plug-ins to automate or script some things on a game |
| 20:15.58 | Digital_Pioneer | Yeah, who cares about visual animation? :P |
| 20:16.00 | JeffM2501 | but we can't move objects |
| 20:16.14 | JeffM2501 | we need a lot more work with the server before we can get there |
| 20:16.23 | Digital_Pioneer | Yeah. |
| 20:17.01 | Digital_Pioneer | How about scriptable maps? Anyone thinking about considering attempting to halfheartedly implement that? |
| 20:17.10 | JeffM2501 | scriptable to do what? |
| 20:17.20 | tannerld_mac | computer generated? |
| 20:17.23 | JeffM2501 | like I said, we have plugins that can do things based on events |
| 20:17.33 | Digital_Pioneer | For example a wall you can only go through if you have a certain flag. Stuff like that. |
| 20:17.50 | JeffM2501 | drive thru should be setable by the server for 2.1 |
| 20:17.58 | JeffM2501 | well 2.2 when it's released |
| 20:17.59 | Digital_Pioneer | Teleports that go different places depending on various variables. |
| 20:18.06 | JeffM2501 | then you can have a plug-in set the state |
| 20:18.23 | JeffM2501 | I belive you can change porter links with plug-ins |
| 20:18.33 | JeffM2501 | if not, that'd not be to hard to do |
| 20:18.41 | Digital_Pioneer | Yeah. |
| 20:18.59 | JeffM2501 | we use plug-ins for server side changes |
| 20:19.00 | Digital_Pioneer | I mean if you could embed scripts into the maps, you could do all sorts of interesting stuff. |
| 20:19.06 | JeffM2501 | we don't have any specific scripting languages |
| 20:19.19 | JeffM2501 | you can do intersting stuff with plug-ins |
| 20:19.25 | JeffM2501 | no need to keep them with the map |
| 20:19.38 | JeffM2501 | plug-ins can read custom info from maps |
| 20:19.51 | JeffM2501 | so you can make custom objects that your plug-in reads |
| 20:19.58 | JeffM2501 | flagStay works that way |
| 20:20.04 | Digital_Pioneer | Yeah, but plugins have limitations too. :) |
| 20:20.16 | JeffM2501 | they would have the same limitations as scripts |
| 20:20.24 | *** join/#bzflag blah__ (i=noyb@nat/sun/x-c1d458b017987d0c) |
| 20:20.26 | JeffM2501 | in that they'd run server side |
| 20:20.42 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman- (n=whodaman@dslb-088-066-030-152.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:20.54 | Digital_Pioneer | Not to mention, there may be some things specific to your map that would make the map pretty useless without. It would be nice to embed that directly into the map. |
| 20:21.20 | JeffM2501 | I belive you can have the map force load the plug-in |
| 20:21.29 | JeffM2501 | but lots of things would be nice |
| 20:21.37 | Digital_Pioneer | Right. :) |
| 20:21.52 | tannerld_mac | *cough* patches welcome |
| 20:22.00 | Digital_Pioneer | :D I wish. |
| 20:22.06 | JeffM2501 | actualy I'd not want a second scripting system |
| 20:22.07 | Sicshooter | JeffM2501: I removed those lines and recompiled 2.0.10 with default options. 2 tanks works fine. Lasermaina sealed when I contacted the underside of the conveyers |
| 20:22.39 | JeffM2501 | if it was to be done, I think I'd rather see the python plug-in be finiehed, then have the map force load python, and read a script out of the map |
| 20:22.48 | JeffM2501 | then it'd use the standard API |
| 20:22.56 | JeffM2501 | so we don't have duplication of effort |
| 20:22.59 | Digital_Pioneer | That would be pretty nice. |
| 20:23.04 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-081-176.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 20:23.12 | JeffM2501 | Sicshooter, with out fastmath? |
| 20:23.28 | Sicshooter | correct |
| 20:23.36 | JeffM2501 | Sicshooter, ok, well that's good at least |
| 20:23.45 | JeffM2501 | the sealed thing is probably a difrent issue |
| 20:24.00 | JeffM2501 | OO and mesh objects dosn't always play well |
| 20:24.07 | JeffM2501 | if they are not defined correctly |
| 20:24.30 | Digital_Pioneer | Now I keep seeing stuff about 2.0.10. How far along is that? It's not a release is it? |
| 20:24.33 | JeffM2501 | hmm so that means we kicked into the fog hack, manual |
| 20:24.47 | JeffM2501 | 2.0.10 is in release candidate sates |
| 20:24.50 | JeffM2501 | stages |
| 20:24.56 | JeffM2501 | we hope to have it out soon |
| 20:25.01 | JeffM2501 | so we can go back to working on a real version |
| 20:25.09 | Digital_Pioneer | LOL |
| 20:25.43 | JeffM2501 | it's not funny |
| 20:26.18 | Digital_Pioneer | Sorry |
| 20:27.33 | Digital_Pioneer | So with a few commits a day and a good few days since 2.0.8, how much further along is SVN from 2.0.8? |
| 20:27.45 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16076 10/branches/v2_0branch/bzflag/src/bzflag/SceneRenderer.cxx: only use the foghack if the config says to, the GL version test isn't good enough and we end up doing the fog hack on cards where its slower then real fog. |
| 20:27.57 | JeffM2501 | Digital_Pioneer, depends what part of SVN you are talking about |
| 20:28.01 | JeffM2501 | we have 2 branches |
| 20:28.05 | JeffM2501 | 2.0.x and dev |
| 20:28.17 | JeffM2501 | but I'm not sure what kind of metrics your looking for |
| 20:28.24 | Digital_Pioneer | Whichever one's playable or both. |
| 20:28.39 | Digital_Pioneer | Ahhh, I'm not either. Just any neat new features. :) |
| 20:28.42 | JeffM2501 | the 2.0.x branch is compatable wtih current servers |
| 20:28.46 | JeffM2501 | it has no real features |
| 20:28.50 | JeffM2501 | just bug fixes |
| 20:29.02 | JeffM2501 | 2.1, has a new flag and a lot of internal changes |
| 20:29.06 | JeffM2501 | but isn't compatable |
| 20:29.13 | Digital_Pioneer | OK. And dev has all the cool new stuff but I can't play with it. :) |
| 20:29.22 | JeffM2501 | sure you can |
| 20:29.32 | JeffM2501 | just not on the same servers as 2.0.x |
| 20:29.48 | JeffM2501 | and I'm not sure what you mean by "all the cool new stuff" |
| 20:30.02 | JeffM2501 | game play wise, it has a single new flag |
| 20:30.04 | JeffM2501 | that's about it |
| 20:30.05 | Digital_Pioneer | connectToServer("127.0.0.1") |
| 20:30.07 | Digital_Pioneer | :P |
| 20:30.11 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 20:30.31 | Digital_Pioneer | If I can play with it, I'd probably be the only server I'd be able to play. |
| 20:30.36 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 20:30.47 | JeffM2501 | there are 6 or 7 dev servers |
| 20:31.07 | JeffM2501 | there are also some graphical changes |
| 20:31.14 | JeffM2501 | but most of the work has gone inside |
| 20:31.17 | Digital_Pioneer | But does anyone actually play on them or just test the new patch they made? |
| 20:31.30 | JeffM2501 | we don't realy do patches |
| 20:31.38 | JeffM2501 | they are mostly used for testing |
| 20:32.00 | JeffM2501 | the majority of our users can not compile |
| 20:32.14 | JeffM2501 | and we don't do nightly builds or anything |
| 20:32.16 | Digital_Pioneer | Yeah, windoze never was good at that. :P |
| 20:32.29 | JeffM2501 | sure it is, it just dosn't ship with a compiler |
| 20:33.09 | JeffM2501 | but dev changes too often to make builds feasable |
| 20:33.26 | Digital_Pioneer | Yeah. |
| 20:33.30 | JeffM2501 | we'll do beta builds as we get closer |
| 20:34.00 | JeffM2501 | oh yeah, there is a new game mode as well I think |
| 20:34.04 | JeffM2501 | true FFA |
| 20:34.18 | Digital_Pioneer | Oh? Current FFA is false? |
| 20:34.26 | JeffM2501 | it's team based |
| 20:34.30 | JeffM2501 | so not realy free for all |
| 20:34.36 | JeffM2501 | it's free for teams |
| 20:34.45 | Digital_Pioneer | What about if it's all rogue FFA? |
| 20:35.00 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-081-176.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 20:35.04 | JeffM2501 | that isn't realy a mode, cus you can have all rogue CTF ;) |
| 20:35.10 | JeffM2501 | openffa is teamless |
| 20:35.26 | JeffM2501 | color is just used for avatar |
| 20:35.59 | Digital_Pioneer | So what's the new flag? |
| 20:36.03 | JeffM2501 | low gravity |
| 20:36.11 | Digital_Pioneer | Ahhh, nice. :) |
| 20:36.26 | JeffM2501 | in openFFA you pick the color just to pick what you look like, it dosnt' affect your "team", |
| 20:36.35 | JeffM2501 | it's proper deathmatch |
| 20:36.45 | Digital_Pioneer | Ohhhhh, so you have colors but not teams. |
| 20:36.48 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 20:36.56 | JeffM2501 | many things have been seperated in dev |
| 20:37.00 | JeffM2501 | colors from teams |
| 20:37.02 | JeffM2501 | shots from flags |
| 20:37.21 | JeffM2501 | players from connections |
| 20:37.28 | Digital_Pioneer | ? Shots from flags? You mean like the super bullet bullet from the SB flag? |
| 20:37.56 | JeffM2501 | the server now sends what shot type to use with each flag pickup |
| 20:38.28 | JeffM2501 | by default the flags that have shot types send out the correct shot with the pickup |
| 20:38.36 | JeffM2501 | but the server can modify that if it wishes |
| 20:38.40 | JeffM2501 | like with a plugin |
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| 20:39.34 | JeffM2501 | I'd like to get flag effect seperated too |
| 20:39.38 | JeffM2501 | and put into a stack |
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| 20:41.13 | Digital_Pioneer | Well, I don't really get it, but keep up the good work. It's pretty much the only game I play. I'm checking out this warzone thing though. |
| 20:41.47 | Digital_Pioneer | I'll leave you in peace, as I'm sure you're about to kick the annoying noob. :) |
| 20:43.30 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 20:43.46 | Digital_Pioneer | ...NVM. |
| 20:43.48 | JeffM2501 | one reason we split shot type from flag, was so that the server could set the shot type for not having a flag |
| 20:44.09 | JeffM2501 | if we split out effect, then the server can just tell the tank what effects it has |
| 20:44.13 | JeffM2501 | regardless of flag |
| 20:44.13 | Digital_Pioneer | To prevent cheating? |
| 20:46.19 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 20:46.28 | JeffM2501 | to do neat effects, and custom flags :) |
| 20:46.55 | JeffM2501 | we alredy give the flag to the player now on the server, so that part is taken care of. |
| 20:46.58 | Digital_Pioneer | Ahhhh. But that would help prevent cheating too, no? |
| 20:47.05 | JeffM2501 | not directly |
| 20:47.10 | Digital_Pioneer | Oh. |
| 20:47.16 | JeffM2501 | knowing what flag he has isn't the problem |
| 20:47.25 | JeffM2501 | it's making sure his motions are correct for it |
| 20:47.44 | JeffM2501 | and that problem is the same regardless of how he got the effect, via flag or server message. |
| 20:48.10 | JeffM2501 | it's now impossible to generate a shot type other then the one your suposed to have |
| 20:48.15 | JeffM2501 | so that will help prevent cheating |
| 20:48.26 | JeffM2501 | but doing stuff like verifying that he has left turn is a lot harder. |
| 20:49.41 | JeffM2501 | we have a slightly more accurate state on the server now, with lag compensation so we can do a little more |
| 20:49.53 | JeffM2501 | but we need collisions to finish the rest of it |
| 20:49.59 | JeffM2501 | and shot tracking |
| 20:50.35 | Digital_Pioneer | Collisions as in I cant drive through another tank anymore? |
| 20:50.40 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 20:50.49 | JeffM2501 | as in "this tank should not have gone thru that box" |
| 20:50.55 | JeffM2501 | right now the server dosn't track that |
| 20:52.25 | Digital_Pioneer | Oh. |
| 20:56.55 | Digital_Pioneer | So are tanks always going to be able to drive through eachother? Would that be really hard to change? |
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| 21:00.35 | brlcad | not really, but it would certainly be .. different, and impossible to enforce without moving more server-side |
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| 21:01.27 | brlcad | could be added like building collisions are now in the client, with just as many weaknesses pretty easily, but better (for the game) to focus efforts on moving more server-side |
| 21:02.39 | Digital_Pioneer | Yeah |
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| 21:37.03 | JeffM2501 | I don't think it would make for good gameplay, too easy to bunch people into corners |
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| 22:54.26 | Djpenguin | well yes bunching into corners, and that it could make it so u could have someone on top of you... |
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