| 00:01.53 | spldart | :-x |
| 00:08.58 | neutronix7 | anyone here still use bzedit for building maps? |
| 00:09.04 | neutronix7 | im finding it is very very limited |
| 00:09.28 | *** join/#bzflag CBG` (n=CBG@about/essy/fan/CBG) |
| 00:09.30 | Winny | thanks, captain obvious, |
| 00:09.33 | spldart | lol |
| 00:09.40 | Winny | It does what you want, if you make 1.0 maps |
| 00:09.44 | spldart | I stopped along time ago |
| 00:10.07 | spldart | sometimes I used to for placing and referencing when building a map though |
| 00:10.26 | neutronix7 | im sure it can be useful but i bleieve the usefulness is running out of it ;-) |
| 00:10.43 | Winny | * neutronix7 is now known as captain obvious |
| 00:10.56 | neutronix7 | what is the tool that is now being used the most? |
| 00:11.01 | neutronix7 | blender or something else? |
| 00:11.12 | spldart | blenders and wings3d here |
| 00:11.17 | spldart | hehe |
| 00:11.19 | spldart | blender |
| 00:11.22 | neutronix7 | which one is easier do you think? |
| 00:11.31 | neutronix7 | or has the smaller learning curve? |
| 00:11.43 | spldart | for me I prefer wings... ask louman if you wanna know how a badarse does it though lol |
| 00:12.00 | neutronix7 | does wings3d need any kind of plugin for it? |
| 00:12.06 | neutronix7 | for it to work with bzflag? |
| 00:12.13 | spldart | Yeah.. check the forums for it |
| 00:12.21 | spldart | IIRC |
| 00:12.29 | spldart | or modeltool |
| 00:12.35 | spldart | ala jeffm |
| 00:12.38 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r15693 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsPlugins.cxx: let bz_Load return non zero and be unloaded, in the case of a fatal error. |
| 00:12.40 | neutronix7 | what is modeltool? |
| 00:12.48 | JeffM | a tool for models |
| 00:12.57 | JeffM | converts obj files to BZW |
| 00:13.05 | neutronix7 | is it a plugin? or a separate piece of sw? |
| 00:13.07 | neutronix7 | ok |
| 00:13.10 | JeffM | it's a tool |
| 00:13.11 | neutronix7 | that makes some sense |
| 00:13.26 | JeffM | plug-ins are server side only |
| 00:13.30 | Winny | just wait for BZWB |
| 00:14.07 | JeffM | or use one of the many existing tools. |
| 00:14.13 | *** join/#bzflag cosmol (n=dave@71.86.121.200) |
| 00:15.59 | neutronix7 | gee this blender thing doesnt seem like it was made for bzflag at all |
| 00:16.06 | tannerld | it wasn't... |
| 00:16.47 | Winny | blender has nothing to do with BZFlag |
| 00:17.01 | neutronix7 | evidently not |
| 00:17.38 | Winny | ... |
| 00:22.41 | neutronix7 | is there any kind of tutorial for getting wings3d to work for bzflag? |
| 00:22.48 | neutronix7 | that anyone knows about? |
| 00:23.50 | spldart | I used conventional tutorials for wings and then of course had to compensate for the axis change through modeltool to get my models |
| 00:24.03 | spldart | Winny> that's two points to the forums |
| 00:24.12 | spldart | 1 me 1 you ;-) |
| 00:24.22 | neutronix7 | ok thanks |
| 00:24.33 | spldart | sry neut |
| 00:25.32 | neutronix7 | nothing ever to be sorry for ;-) |
| 00:28.19 | neutronix7 | ack just not enough information i can digest easily |
| 00:29.23 | spldart | It takes time and lotsa trial and error.. can get discouraging... I got a bit myself |
| 00:29.57 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-068-082.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 00:29.58 | spldart | And I never got as good as the real competant moders |
| 00:30.27 | spldart | follow the forums and generic modelling tips pages |
| 00:30.35 | spldart | practice a bit here and there |
| 00:30.50 | spldart | You will be doin neat little 3d objects in no time |
| 00:31.49 | spldart | Dunno if it's a fair practice but tearing upart other's maps and figuring how they did it helped me alot too |
| 00:32.41 | neutronix7 | yeah i did that with Spazzy's image billboard |
| 00:32.50 | neutronix7 | it made some sense from the code size |
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| 00:59.51 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r15694 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/ (9 files in 2 dirs): start a real map change plug-in that needs no OS services, and offers various change modes ( timed, max score, max cap score, and no players ). |
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| 01:33.30 | RatOmeter | player callsign 'necessary' ( http://my.bzflag.org/playerinfo.php?callsign=necessary ) was using an aimbot of sorts at pythonian.com:5154 |
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| 01:34.06 | L4m3r | aimbot? |
| 01:34.17 | L4m3r | you mean, not shooting straight? |
| 01:34.55 | RatOmeter | his regular shots appeared to aim at a vector directly to the location of his target at the time that he fired. No path deviation on his shots while in flight |
| 01:35.47 | spldart | Hrm |
| 01:38.32 | RatOmeter | IOW, if his target was 20 degrees to his right when he fired, his bullet took a path 30 degrees to his right, directly to his target, but did not deviate path to track the target if it moved |
| 01:38.32 | RatOmeter | er, 20 on the second degrees there |
| 01:38.48 | blast007 | yeah, that's possible |
| 01:38.51 | bryjen | not firing the same direction the gun was pointing then |
| 01:39.42 | spldart | ooopsy |
| 01:40.16 | blast007 | *cough* what? |
| 01:40.19 | blast007 | ;) |
| 01:40.31 | bryjen | and now you knows that i knows that you knows... |
| 01:40.48 | bryjen | ;) |
| 01:42.35 | brlcad | ~blast007++ |
| 01:44.21 | RatOmeter | it seem pretty straight-forward to me, just the first time I'd seen it in the wild |
| 01:52.01 | blast007 | RatOmeter: you'll probably see it more often now too |
| 01:53.38 | RatOmeter | why's that, did I miss a new release with this wonderful 'feature' available? |
| 01:55.17 | blast007 | kinda sorta |
| 02:07.54 | RatOmeter | especially, in the words of my wife, "stupid computer games" |
| 02:07.57 | RatOmeter | :( |
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| 05:37.58 | Constitution | what's wrong with this MySQL query statement? |
| 05:38.01 | Constitution | INSERT INTO groups (groupname,desc,orgid) VALUES ("testgroup","owners group",1); |
| 05:38.15 | Constitution | where groupname = varchar, desc = varchar, orgid = int |
| 05:42.46 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03macsforme * r15695 10/trunk/db/bzgrpmgr/ (bzgrpmgr.php data_phpbb2.class.php): "Create organization" dialog, some data layer enhancements. |
| 05:44.20 | AAA_awright | Constitution: DESC is an SQL keyword |
| 05:44.33 | Constitution | oh |
| 05:44.36 | AAA_awright | wrap it in backticks in MySQL |
| 05:45.05 | AAA_awright | as in "SORT BY groupname DESC" |
| 05:45.22 | Constitution | right... |
| 05:47.01 | L4m3r | or better yet, avoid using it entirely for a column name |
| 05:47.57 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03macsforme * r15696 10/trunk/db/bzgrpmgr/ (bzgrpmgr.sql data_phpbb2.class.php): "description" rather than "desc" to avoid MySQL keyword conflict; thanks AAA. |
| 05:48.17 | Constitution | ~AAA_awright++ |
| 05:48.18 | AAA_awright | Don't be afraid to be verbose, and don't name column's after their type (Never name a column "date", what is it the date of? I had a problem with that recently...) |
| 05:48.41 | AAA_awright | :) |
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| 12:30.12 | brlcad | anyone know zhero? (perhaps aka zerohour, zero-conf, zeroday, zero-emission, ground-zero, 007) |
| 12:38.13 | ts | Not me |
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| 13:55.11 | Thumper_ | brlcad: not me either |
| 13:55.51 | neutronix7 | so if i may ask/confirm/comment... wings3d makes an object and not necessarily a map? |
| 13:56.33 | Thumper_ | neutronix7: I've never used it but that's what I think - it should have an exporter to bzw format I think |
| 13:56.44 | Thumper_ | there's probably more info on the wiki |
| 13:56.55 | neutronix7 | yeah it appears to export to a file ... just the object |
| 13:57.03 | neutronix7 | and from there you can add that to the main .bzw file |
| 13:57.07 | neutronix7 | which is cool enough |
| 13:57.18 | neutronix7 | hmm not much on the wiki as far as a tutorial goes |
| 13:57.35 | neutronix7 | it is *mentioned* in the wiki |
| 13:57.39 | Thumper_ | when you figure it out add it :) |
| 13:57.51 | neutronix7 | yeah planning on it ma man :-) |
| 13:58.17 | neutronix7 | i think im going to eventually redo all of my maps with it... adding cool stuff |
| 13:58.37 | neutronix7 | gee have i said it enough??? mofo high voltage is the best map so far!! |
| 13:58.47 | neutronix7 | ok that's it i swear |
| 14:08.37 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r15697 10/trunk/bzflag/COPYING: remove the developer instructions |
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| 15:14.10 | blast007 | neutronix7: there is also a .bzw exporter for Wings3D |
| 15:14.17 | blast007 | search on the forum |
| 15:14.23 | neutronix7 | yeah found that |
| 15:14.34 | neutronix7 | how can you import a .bzw though? |
| 15:14.38 | blast007 | you can't |
| 15:14.44 | neutronix7 | yeah i fig'd as much |
| 15:14.58 | neutronix7 | blast007: so it's true that its only for making an object at a time? |
| 15:15.01 | blast007 | you *can* export a map from the bzflag client as a .obj, but you'll lose stuff |
| 15:15.30 | blast007 | I don't use Wings |
| 15:15.35 | neutronix7 | you use blender? |
| 15:15.38 | blast007 | no |
| 15:15.52 | blast007 | I script my maps |
| 15:16.00 | blast007 | well, map* |
| 15:16.00 | neutronix7 | how do you do that? |
| 15:16.19 | blast007 | I write code to generate the map, in this case, via PHP |
| 15:16.45 | blast007 | I have the start of an OOP interface to map objects |
| 15:17.28 | neutronix7 | hmm |
| 15:17.44 | neutronix7 | im wondering though... do you make the pieces in the map at random? |
| 15:17.50 | blast007 | basically I'm hand coding via a script |
| 15:18.00 | neutronix7 | or what order or structure do you script them? |
| 15:19.33 | blast007 | order? the same order I'd use for a hand-coded map |
| 15:29.51 | neutronix7 | yeah but if im using bzedit to build something, how would i go about scripting that? |
| 15:30.08 | neutronix7 | is this where maybe you do one side and you script it to build the coords for the opposite side? |
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| 16:20.00 | Epyon | ~svn |
| 16:20.00 | ibot | Subversion (aka SVN) is version control software that aims to be a better CVS than CVS. See http://subversion.tigris.org/. |
| 16:20.13 | Epyon | ~bzflagsvn |
| 16:20.20 | Epyon | darn |
| 16:20.26 | Epyon | ~bzsvn |
| 16:20.26 | ibot | well, bzsvn is http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN and svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag bzflag |
| 16:20.36 | Epyon | Ah ^_^ |
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| 16:42.32 | ts | ~menotume++ |
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| 16:42.40 | menotume | oh nooooo |
| 16:46.16 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03bryjen * r15698 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/mapchange/mapchange.cpp: no need for a reference here |
| 16:47.27 | JeffM | bryjen, what's wrong with a ref? |
| 16:47.36 | JeffM | saves it making a copy |
| 16:48.16 | JeffM | or does something complain that it's not const? |
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| 16:49.11 | bryjen | gcc complains about making refs from function return values condfromString(tolower(params[1])); |
| 16:49.51 | JeffM | ah yeah unnamed non const temps |
| 16:50.33 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03t-s * r15699 10/branches/v2_0branch/bzflag/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Add -adminlagannounce for admins. Useful for noticing people with > 1000ms quicker. |
| 16:50.53 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r15700 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/mapchange/mapchange.cpp: use a ref, but a const ref. |
| 16:50.58 | JeffM | tell me if that fixes it as well? |
| 16:51.36 | bryjen | yeah, it does |
| 16:52.07 | JeffM | cool thanks |
| 16:55.15 | bryjen | meh. it's only a few bytes that the function isn't going to alter. not sure that's much of an optimization ;) |
| 16:55.32 | JeffM | well strings can be big |
| 16:55.40 | JeffM | and it saves it making an extra copy |
| 16:55.54 | JeffM | mostly just habbit |
| 16:55.55 | JeffM | :) |
| 16:56.20 | JeffM | I need to get in the habbit of doing more const anyway |
| 16:56.33 | bryjen | all the valid values there should be small. should can be a bad word, though :) |
| 16:57.01 | JeffM | oh Erroneous, can I get the installer for you exTabSettings thing again? I got a new machine. |
| 16:57.20 | Erroneous | http://code.google.com/p/extabsettings iirc |
| 16:57.30 | JeffM | ahh cool thanks |
| 16:57.45 | JeffM | I tried a bit to do a search there, but was uncsusessfull |
| 16:58.27 | JeffM | I shodn't need a 64 bit version right? cus it's 32bit VC |
| 16:58.34 | Erroneous | correct |
| 16:59.20 | Tupone | hi bryen |
| 16:59.20 | JeffM | yay, tabs match again :) |
| 16:59.23 | Tupone | well, I miss a j |
| 16:59.32 | Tupone | <tab> is better |
| 17:00.48 | Erroneous | ~JeffM++ |
| 17:02.04 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r15701 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/mapchange/mapchange.cpp: tabtastic! |
| 17:24.05 | JeffM | ++ for what? |
| 17:25.14 | ruskie | I think: [18:59:19] <JeffM> yay, tabs match again :) |
| 17:26.26 | JeffM | only in a plug-in he'll never use :) |
| 17:31.37 | Erroneous | still, 'tis good form :) |
| 17:32.13 | JeffM | I don't mind doing it, if it's basicly automatic :) |
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| 17:52.19 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r15702 10/trunk/bzflag/ (include/bzfsAPI.h src/bzfs/bzfsAPI.cxx): simple API functions to get a player score with out having to get and free a player record. |
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| 18:00.53 | JeffM | the team score is the number of caps right? |
| 18:01.21 | ruskie | number of caps - number of opposite team caps |
| 18:01.32 | JeffM | ahh ok |
| 18:01.40 | JeffM | so wins is the number of flat out caps |
| 18:01.57 | Erroneous | yup |
| 18:02.06 | JeffM | thanks |
| 18:04.38 | JeffM | seting up my end conditions :) |
| 18:09.10 | TimRiker | brlcad: nice reply on the LGPL ticket. :) I was about to say the same thing. :) |
| 18:11.06 | Tupone | but, as I wrote to brlcad, I don't like the editing of the LGPL license |
| 18:11.16 | TimRiker | ruskie: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=203248&aid=1788424&group_id=3248 |
| 18:11.21 | Tupone | even cutting non important pieces |
| 18:11.52 | TimRiker | Tupone: we have not edited it as far as I know. do you know otherwise? |
| 18:11.57 | Tupone | yep |
| 18:12.11 | Tupone | just removed the part after end of term and condition |
| 18:12.17 | Tupone | I asked to put it back |
| 18:12.52 | Tupone | at least is what CIA sent me |
| 18:13.22 | TimRiker | who removed it? |
| 18:13.42 | Tupone | brlcad, after/just before replying to the LGPL ticket |
| 18:14.49 | Tupone | we don't own the license, so if we have to use it, should stay as it is, in my opinion |
| 18:15.26 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r15703 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/plugin_utils/ (plugin_utils.cpp plugin_utils.h): give utils it's own replace_all |
| 18:15.55 | JeffM | it was the part after the license, that tells you how to apply it. |
| 18:16.09 | brlcad | TimRiker: heh, thanks |
| 18:16.10 | JeffM | I can see reason for it not needing to be there, since we are using the license |
| 18:16.23 | brlcad | the license wasn't edited |
| 18:16.32 | Tupone | but it is part of it, the full text have that |
| 18:16.32 | brlcad | there's instructions after the license |
| 18:16.52 | brlcad | but it's not part of it, they even say that somewhere on the site :) |
| 18:17.01 | brlcad | that's also why there's a marker in the file |
| 18:17.07 | brlcad | people just get used to leaving it |
| 18:17.15 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03timriker * r15704 10/trunk/bzflag/COPYING: just cause the instructions are there, does not mean they apply to us. We specify COPYING and no other file. |
| 18:17.15 | JeffM | and I belive they give rights to modify the license as well do they not? |
| 18:17.16 | brlcad | it has zero-legal bearing |
| 18:17.33 | Tupone | is not part of term and condition I know |
| 18:18.08 | brlcad | it's not an issue I care about, just (apparently) misleading to some |
| 18:18.15 | TimRiker | distros look to see if the file matches to simplify merging license files. it's better if we leave the original file. |
| 18:18.29 | Tupone | yeah, I have the same problem with gentoo |
| 18:18.50 | brlcad | *shrug*, i'd say their comparison was broken if it did a simple diff -q :) |
| 18:18.50 | TimRiker | I also wish that clause was someplace else, and not in that file, but I think it's better to have the same exact file there. |
| 18:19.09 | brlcad | but again, I really don't care .. and really didn't think anyone else would have either :) |
| 18:19.34 | TimRiker | hmm. ours does differ in whitespace... reverting to upstream... |
| 18:20.04 | brlcad | probably because of your ws script :) |
| 18:20.23 | brlcad | iirc, it's got multiple while lines and other things that one would generally want to compress |
| 18:20.32 | brlcad | s/while/empty/ |
| 18:21.16 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03timriker * r15705 10/trunk/bzflag/COPYING: upstream txt version |
| 18:21.48 | TimRiker | yes, it's horrible formatting, but again, it's better to have the upstream version. I'll check my whitespace script. it should be ignoring that file. |
| 18:24.09 | TimRiker | misc/ws.sh should not touch that file. |
| 18:25.22 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r15706 10/trunk/bzflag/include/bzfsAPI.h: der vitespacen |
| 18:26.02 | TimRiker | ugh... it's the debian copy that's different. reverting to the one from http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/lgpl-2.1.txt |
| 18:26.07 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r15707 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/mapchange/mapchange.cpp: implement the various change modes and conditions. |
| 18:26.20 | JeffM | it's ready for testing if anyone cares. |
| 18:26.38 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03timriker * r15708 10/trunk/bzflag/COPYING: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/lgpl-2.1.txt |
| 18:27.24 | Tupone | TimRiker: have you considered the LGPL-3 ? /me has not analyzed it |
| 18:28.25 | TimRiker | Tupone: not in depth. the incompatibility with GPL/LGPL 2 code likely prohibits it for us. |
| 18:28.51 | ts | BTW: COPYING gets overwritten a lot here. I have not yet found out why but maybe you want to know |
| 18:29.17 | brlcad | ts: broken version of automake does that |
| 18:29.30 | brlcad | during autoreconf (which happens during autogen.sh) |
| 18:29.52 | ts | ok |
| 18:31.51 | brlcad | it was fixed in later versions, but it's a pita in the meantime .. the script actually recovers and restores the file but then if you edit a makefile.am or otherwise cause the "missing --run automake" rule in any of the dirs to kick off (it's the rebuild rule in the Makefile.in template), then it'll blow it away again |
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| 18:45.55 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r15709 10/trunk/bzflag/configure.ac: unbreak no-opengl build again |
| 18:50.08 | AWOSLappy | DTRemenak: o/ |
| 18:50.55 | Erroneous | ...right |
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| 19:01.40 | Constitution | would a map control/rotation control plugin be a good addition to the bzflag source tree? |
| 19:02.43 | Thumper_ | Constitution: didn't jeff just do that? (mapchange) |
| 19:03.10 | Constitution | oh, did he? |
| 19:03.37 | Constitution | ah, so he did |
| 19:04.18 | Thumper_ | it needs to be tested though |
| 19:05.22 | Constitution | I made one that I've been using on my servers for some time... but it would need to be modified for 2.1 |
| 19:05.23 | Constitution | http://fairserve.net/const/mapcontrol.cpp |
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| 19:45.13 | Tupone | BZROBOTS_PYTHON_ENBALED ?? |
| 19:45.36 | Tupone | ~spell enbaled |
| 19:46.10 | Thumper_ | er ENABLED ? |
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| 19:47.03 | brlcad | stupid browser cache |
| 19:49.09 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r15710 10/trunk/bzflag/configure.ac: slliy spleling |
| 19:55.04 | *** join/#bzflag Agent86 (n=chris@gentoo/user/Agent86) |
| 20:00.32 | bryjen | ~dict baled |
| 20:00.38 | bryjen | ~dict bale |
| 20:01.40 | bryjen | you don't want your bzrobots wrapped up in pythons? ;) |
| 20:04.15 | *** join/#bzflag doughecka (n=doug@unaffiliated/doughecka) |
| 20:04.15 | JeffM | hah, the day I ride to work, is the day I get 2 packages :) |
| 20:04.30 | JeffM | brlcad, thank you again, now to just figure out how to use em. |
| 20:09.22 | JeffM | Constitution, yeah I started one, it's not as flexable as a system that fully restarts the server |
| 20:09.32 | JeffM | it won't change game types, etc. |
| 20:09.55 | JeffM | but it will let you cycle thru a number of maps in the same game mode |
| 20:10.23 | JeffM | still needs custom slash commands too |
| 20:10.34 | JeffM | for listing the maps, and setting/changing the modes and paramaters |
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| 20:46.10 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r15711 10/trunk/bzflag/ (include/bzfsAPI.h src/bzfs/bzfsAPI.cxx): simple API functions to get a player's admin status with out having to get and free a player record. |
| 20:50.19 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=TD-Linux@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 20:52.12 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r15712 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsAPI.cxx: doh! |
| 20:53.31 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r15713 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/mapchange/mapchange.cpp: |
| 20:53.33 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: add some custom slash commands to control the rotation when running, tie it to admin perm or the "mapchange" custom perm. |
| 20:53.36 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: add help text for the custom commands. |
| 20:54.28 | Winny | built in rotation?! :O |
| 20:55.37 | tannerld | Winny: plugin |
| 20:55.50 | Winny | oh, ehe |
| 20:56.00 | Winny | forgot to look at the location |
| 20:56.56 | JeffM | it'll do it with out OS scripts tho |
| 20:57.03 | JeffM | if you keep the same game mode, etc. |
| 20:57.50 | JeffM | you just pass it a config file that has the end condtion you want, and then a list of maps |
| 20:58.02 | JeffM | with optinal public description text |
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| 21:35.20 | Agent86 | Who wants to run a 10-15 player or so server on a Linux server with a nice connection in the central US? I want to host bzflag on my server, but I don't want to take time to manage it myself. |
| 21:35.46 | tannerld | money? |
| 21:36.11 | Tennessee | Need an admin over at Mofo FFA. Cheater (SuperTaco) present... |
| 21:36.21 | Agent86 | Are you asking if there's a charge or if you'll get paid? :-) I'm not planning to involve any money. |
| 21:37.01 | Tennessee | NightMare's cheating now, too... |
| 21:37.02 | Agent86 | This is targeted toward someone who would like to run their own server, but doesn't have a decent connection. |
| 21:38.01 | tannerld | oh |
| 21:38.45 | Agent86 | Heh, no, I've got the server and the connection, just looking for somebody who will actually pay attention to the goings on. |
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| 21:53.48 | L4m3r | hm... how does one make different-shaped maps? someone on the list has a pentagon |
| 21:53.56 | L4m3r | and it's not a mesh |
| 21:55.22 | JeffM | boxes? |
| 21:55.43 | L4m3r | no |
| 21:55.46 | L4m3r | it's a random map |
| 21:56.00 | Winny | JeffM: the wall looks the same size no mater how you zoom radar |
| 21:56.01 | JeffM | tho I guess techincaly if you moded the server you coudl have it generate difernt wall objects |
| 21:56.03 | L4m3r | and the world boundaries are a pentagon. there's nothing special in the saved world file |
| 21:56.04 | Winny | (unlike boxes) |
| 21:56.11 | L4m3r | there's a wall object? |
| 21:56.14 | JeffM | yeah |
| 21:56.17 | JeffM | not in the map |
| 21:56.21 | JeffM | it's genereted by BZFS |
| 21:56.25 | JeffM | automaticly |
| 21:56.26 | JeffM | and sent |
| 21:56.27 | L4m3r | oh wow |
| 21:56.37 | L4m3r | I thought the client would have just assumed boundaries |
| 21:56.42 | JeffM | nope |
| 21:57.03 | JeffM | it would probably be a simple code change to add more "sides" to that polygon |
| 21:57.07 | L4m3r | can the API mess with these boundaries? |
| 21:57.09 | JeffM | no |
| 21:57.15 | L4m3r | poo :P |
| 21:57.18 | JeffM | be simple to do |
| 21:57.27 | JeffM | tho in 2.1 we'd have to do more with it |
| 21:57.39 | JeffM | since we use that area for spawns and tests and stuff |
| 21:57.54 | JeffM | does the map have a spawn zone? |
| 21:58.01 | L4m3r | I'd like to be able to just plot vertices for the walls |
| 21:58.18 | L4m3r | saved map seems to be completely 1.x |
| 21:58.22 | JeffM | we'd need to know the playable volume |
| 21:58.39 | L4m3r | we could write an algo for that |
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| 21:58.46 | JeffM | we could do lots of thigns ;) |
| 21:58.46 | L4m3r | break it up into triangles |
| 21:59.10 | JeffM | it's a volume not a surface ;) |
| 21:59.30 | JeffM | it's much simpler to do it with a a mesh |
| 21:59.37 | L4m3r | wait, the walls have a vertical dimension too? |
| 21:59.58 | JeffM | the playable area is the extrusion of the 2d outline of the walls |
| 22:00.03 | JeffM | up to some Z level |
| 22:00.07 | JeffM | well inifinity ;) |
| 22:00.34 | L4m3r | yeah |
| 22:00.48 | L4m3r | so we could get the surface area of the ground and multiply ;) |
| 22:01.00 | JeffM | we don't need the number :) |
| 22:01.10 | JeffM | we'd need to be able to plot it as a shape |
| 22:01.22 | JeffM | you'd bacily have to go and change every place in the server code that uses world size |
| 22:01.29 | JeffM | since all uses now assume a square |
| 22:01.31 | JeffM | it's all dooable |
| 22:01.56 | JeffM | not entirely sure how usefull it is to do it like that, over using zones. |
| 22:02.19 | L4m3r | just cleaner |
| 22:02.25 | JeffM | not really |
| 22:02.30 | JeffM | cus you still have to handle zones |
| 22:02.40 | L4m3r | the client handles the world boundaries a lot more intelligently than meshes |
| 22:02.43 | JeffM | so you'd end up with 2 ways of doing eveything |
| 22:02.56 | JeffM | well then that's a bug with meshes ;) |
| 22:03.07 | L4m3r | there are LOTS of bugs with meshes |
| 22:03.08 | L4m3r | :P |
| 22:03.16 | JeffM | fix them, don't hack around them |
| 22:03.45 | JeffM | Id' be nice if the map reader just automaticly made a full map zone for the playable area automaticly |
| 22:03.57 | JeffM | then the server side code would be clean |
| 22:05.01 | JeffM | changing the walls from a square shape to another regular polygon would be a decently simple change. |
| 22:05.34 | L4m3r | maybe it'd be better to have an equivalent BZW object |
| 22:05.51 | L4m3r | more flexible |
| 22:06.08 | L4m3r | let the mapper define the map area manually |
| 22:06.50 | L4m3r | then we could have, say, multiple polygons connected only by teles ;) |
| 22:08.41 | JeffM | yeah, they are called zones and meshes ;) |
| 22:09.52 | L4m3r | meshes aren't OO and PZ-proof :P |
| 22:10.16 | JeffM | then make atributes that make them so :) |
| 22:10.20 | L4m3r | nor are they impassible to dead tanks |
| 22:10.37 | JeffM | those are just features you need |
| 22:10.47 | JeffM | you can ether extend meshes, or add another set of objets to the map |
| 22:10.57 | JeffM | extending meshes is the more general solution. |
| 22:11.15 | L4m3r | there's a lot of stuff to do there, though :\ |
| 22:11.20 | L4m3r | mesh collisions are broken, even |
| 22:11.27 | JeffM | so |
| 22:11.30 | JeffM | it has to get fixed |
| 22:11.58 | JeffM | you need to stop thinking like a hacker, and starting thinking of long term code design |
| 22:12.57 | JeffM | and trust me, it'd be a lot of changes to make the server handle multiple seperate play volumes in a totaly seperate way |
| 22:13.03 | L4m3r | in that case, eventually, we should probably nix the special wall object and use meshes instead ;) |
| 22:13.08 | JeffM | yes |
| 22:13.17 | JeffM | I'd like to get rid of all object types, at least internaly |
| 22:13.27 | JeffM | meshes and teleporter fields, that's all we need :) |
| 22:13.40 | L4m3r | and the ground :P |
| 22:13.48 | JeffM | make the classic ojbects just be like a higher level macro that generates the otehrs |
| 22:13.54 | JeffM | nope, make the ground a mesh too |
| 22:14.02 | JeffM | then we can get tricky with it :) |
| 22:14.06 | JeffM | you want a lake? |
| 22:14.13 | L4m3r | you'd have to hack up something for burrow |
| 22:14.29 | JeffM | no, you make it so that meshes can have a burrowable attribute |
| 22:14.38 | JeffM | and can burrow into any burrowabel object |
| 22:15.01 | JeffM | and you assign that attribute to the ground mesh if we automaticly generate the ground for you. |
| 22:15.08 | L4m3r | negative height would be nice too, for radar at least |
| 22:15.09 | JeffM | then it's not a hack |
| 22:15.19 | JeffM | it's just how burrow would be implemented. |
| 22:15.27 | L4m3r | maybe just a Z-offset for radar |
| 22:15.40 | L4m3r | blue hell could be "fun" |
| 22:15.41 | JeffM | yeah, the sanctity of Z 0 is limiting |
| 22:15.50 | JeffM | tunnels ;) |
| 22:15.53 | L4m3r | yeah |
| 22:16.10 | L4m3r | but imagine someone lagging through the ground :o |
| 22:16.30 | JeffM | if we were able to get to a more unified internal structure, we could do a lot more |
| 22:16.42 | JeffM | make all surfaces the same, etc. |
| 22:16.57 | L4m3r | yeah |
| 22:17.00 | JeffM | then the code for handling those becomes cleaner and simple, since you don't have lots of wiered interactions. |
| 22:17.07 | CBG | map with wall of more than 4 sides? |
| 22:17.11 | L4m3r | a "base" property for meshes would kick ass |
| 22:17.25 | L4m3r | CBG: check the list |
| 22:17.27 | CBG | I hope to add that feature to bzwr one day, but it's not a priority right now, too much math. |
| 22:17.27 | JeffM | yaeh, all those game features should be turned into per mesh attributes. |
| 22:17.31 | CBG | "list"? |
| 22:17.39 | L4m3r | server list |
| 22:17.43 | L4m3r | it's a bzfs hack |
| 22:18.09 | JeffM | they turn it into a regular polygon? |
| 22:18.09 | CBG | ok, but we can already do that kinda thing with custom walls |
| 22:18.44 | L4m3r | JeffM: yeah, a regular pentagon |
| 22:19.03 | JeffM | yeah convex, that makes it an easy mod |
| 22:20.43 | CBG | what's the server address/description, L4m3r ? |
| 22:20.50 | L4m3r | "the pentagon" |
| 22:20.59 | L4m3r | sme .de domain |
| 22:21.12 | CBG | heh. thanks |
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| 22:21.31 | CBG | it is a 2.0.9 server, makes sence |
| 22:21.34 | CBG | sense* |
| 22:26.25 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r15714 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/mapchange/mapchange.cpp: fill in the rest of the / commands for map management. |
| 22:35.57 | bryjen | would you really need teleporter fields, or just make "teleportsTo:" a property on mesh faces? |
| 22:38.40 | L4m3r | linking that would be fun |
| 22:39.00 | L4m3r | there would need to be some identifier param too, for that purpose |
| 22:39.59 | bryjen | yeah, a name or ID property |
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| 23:28.39 | Constitution | anyone have thoughts on porting BZFlag to the iPod Touch? :P |
| 23:29.00 | blast007 | Constitution: only crazy people |
| 23:30.27 | JeffM | port it to the nokia 800 first |
| 23:32.02 | JeffM | I was thinking a teleporter field ojbect because it's more of a volume, not just a surface, if you wanted to make it a surface, sure a property on a mesh could work |
| 23:32.26 | JeffM | probably just be simpler, yet slightly more limiting that way |
| 23:33.15 | trepan | or more flexible, depending on your viewpoint (face teles that is) |
| 23:35.07 | JeffM | mayhaps |
| 23:35.23 | JeffM | depends on the effect you wanted |
| 23:35.34 | trepan | yup |
| 23:35.44 | JeffM | if you had to go thru the volume boundry to port then faces woudl work |
| 23:36.06 | JeffM | but if you wanted to make it so that if somone ported into the middle of a volume then got ported again for just being there, faces would not work for that |
| 23:36.12 | JeffM | cus they would nevert "cross" it |
| 23:36.29 | JeffM | probably a very rare case, enought that faces would work just fine |
| 23:36.36 | trepan | of course in that case you could probably just tele them to the final dest anyway ;-) |
| 23:36.38 | JeffM | and the benifits of faces would outweight it |
| 23:36.45 | JeffM | trepan, exactly |
| 23:36.56 | trepan | timed teles or triggered teles would probably benefit from volumes |
| 23:37.00 | JeffM | unless you wanted to make them apear to hopscioch for a bit |
| 23:37.08 | JeffM | true |
| 23:37.48 | blast007 | just add a "beam me up" button |
| 23:39.47 | JeffM | trepan, do you recall anything about addwall in worldinfo? specificly what the 'r' paramater does, seems to be an angle in radians, does it determine what the "inward" facing side is? |
| 23:40.32 | JeffM | oh duh, it's just the rot |
| 23:40.36 | JeffM | nevermind I am studpi |
| 23:44.29 | trepan | lua would make a nice language for a bzw replacement :) |
| 23:49.03 | brlcad | JeffM: ah, cool |
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| 23:58.02 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r15715 10/branches/v2_0branch/bzflag/src/bzfs/ (CmdLineOptions.cxx CmdLineOptions.h bzfs.cxx): some kinda crazy experiment to have the outer walls be regular polygons instead of just boxes. |