| 00:07.18 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15443 10/trunk/bzwgen/inc/ (Mesh.h MultiFace.h globals.h): After 4 hours of debugging finally fixed that bug with multifaces with common edges -_- |
| 00:13.39 | AAA_awright | brlcad: So git would be a good thing in the case of, say, biggeruniverse? |
| 00:14.07 | brlcad | not really |
| 00:14.33 | brlcad | again, I think using distributed simply because you can't/won't get along with someone is a horrible reason .. |
| 00:14.53 | brlcad | I still can't trust his patches any more than if he posts up a big tarball of his changes (which he has done) |
| 00:14.55 | TD-Linux | Epyon, I have an odd feeling that the makefile is out of date...? |
| 00:15.10 | brlcad | the changes need to be integrated, discussed, understood by all working on the game |
| 00:15.48 | TD-Linux | maybe not |
| 00:15.54 | TD-Linux | ^^ I mean, to Epyon :P |
| 00:15.57 | menotume | Winny: tattle-tale ! |
| 00:16.48 | brlcad | hm, up to 8 pages now |
| 00:17.05 | menotume | double-space them :P |
| 00:17.35 | brlcad | I actually want it brief as I can get it |
| 00:17.46 | menotume | remove every other word |
| 00:17.47 | brlcad | but I keep finding more I want to add |
| 00:17.49 | brlcad | heh |
| 00:17.59 | brlcad | your name's in there :P ;) |
| 00:18.04 | menotume | uh oh |
| 00:18.12 | brlcad | it's all HIS fault! |
| 00:18.43 | menotume | that's fine, meno makes a good scapegoat |
| 00:18.57 | brlcad | :) |
| 00:24.31 | *** join/#bzflag A_Heart_Attack (n=bzhearta@unaffiliated/aheartattack/x-000001) |
| 00:36.05 | AAA_awright | I don't think git would even help version control if you don't trust someone. You have to trust someone to merge their branch. The whole point is would allow for better development. |
| 00:36.44 | AAA_awright | Who convinced sf.net to add svn? Can I get them to add git as well? Hmmmm... |
| 00:41.37 | TD-Linux | what's wrong with a plain old patch? |
| 00:42.17 | AAA_awright | You can't commit to a patch file |
| 00:42.28 | TD-Linux | what do you mean? |
| 00:42.36 | TD-Linux | why would you want to commit to a patch file? |
| 00:42.44 | TD-Linux | you shouldn't do that |
| 00:42.46 | *** join/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=Macrosof@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) |
| 00:43.05 | TD-Linux | you should make a change, talk it over on IRC, make the patch with 'svn diff > mypatch.patch', and have a developer commit it |
| 00:43.26 | TD-Linux | I don't see anything wrong with that. |
| 00:43.27 | AAA_awright | That is how you would send a single commit |
| 00:43.34 | TD-Linux | yes. |
| 00:43.43 | AAA_awright | Git lets you create your own fork, then merge entire forks |
| 00:43.48 | TD-Linux | Ew. |
| 00:43.55 | AAA_awright | Thats a Good Thing(tm) |
| 00:43.58 | TD-Linux | Commit early, commit often. |
| 00:44.04 | AAA_awright | Fork early, fork often |
| 00:44.09 | a_meteorite | git ounds dangerous |
| 00:44.13 | AAA_awright | er...Fork early. |
| 00:44.14 | a_meteorite | *sounds |
| 00:44.16 | TD-Linux | multiple commits sounds like a bad thing |
| 00:44.23 | TD-Linux | you can do too many things at once |
| 00:44.35 | TD-Linux | and diverge from the main trunk far too easily |
| 00:44.38 | AAA_awright | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok8 |
| 00:44.43 | TD-Linux | and have a big conflicting mess on your hands. |
| 00:45.12 | AAA_awright | It's a Google TechTalk |
| 00:45.42 | TD-Linux | and what's the difference between multiple small commits, and one big commit? |
| 00:45.58 | AAA_awright | Lots of small commits are better for version tracking |
| 00:46.06 | TD-Linux | how? |
| 00:46.39 | AAA_awright | You can track what parts moved where more easily |
| 00:47.37 | TD-Linux | just make a long commit log. |
| 00:48.24 | AAA_awright | Watch the video, Linus is amazing :D |
| 00:49.06 | TD-Linux | I'd rather not use sound |
| 00:49.12 | TD-Linux | at the moment |
| 00:49.20 | TD-Linux | will later though, I 'spose. |
| 00:53.01 | brlcad | you can still do the same (i.e. make your own forks, merge foks, etc) thing with svn -- snakewater reasoning |
| 00:53.44 | brlcad | the difference is just that you don't have to discuss or coordinate that fork or (more importantly) obtain permission to commit to that repository |
| 00:54.58 | brlcad | which is back to my original point -- that's a great feature if you have dozens or more devs needing to obtain permission, e.g. kernel where there's thousands |
| 00:55.39 | brlcad | if you don't have that situation, it just doesn't discourage those forks of development due to personality problems and difficulties obtaining that permission |
| 00:56.26 | tupone | well, I like the idea that a small team is the one that is responsible/merge contribution back from developers |
| 00:56.42 | brlcad | which can be done with either ;) |
| 00:57.13 | tupone | while the big set can stay still with configuration control |
| 00:57.30 | tupone | I know |
| 00:58.04 | tupone | but I think with git is more enforced, even if I don't know it. Well maybe with svn and acl you can do |
| 00:58.55 | brlcad | decentralized has got lots of great points in that you can set up arbitrary topologies of exchange while preserving revision history, but my bigger complaint is that for smaller projects it just encourages communication fragmentation (which is already a major problem when the decisions are disputed) |
| 00:59.27 | AAA_awright | Sure you can do that with svn, but I don't know how, and it's a pain (supposedly) |
| 00:59.48 | brlcad | that fragmentation far outweighs the benefits to me for projects with less than dozens of active developers |
| 01:00.06 | brlcad | not knowing how it's a rediculous reasoning :) |
| 01:00.27 | AAA_awright | brlcad: Your definition of developers is people who have developer access. |
| 01:00.29 | tupone | however is, I don't think the scm is now the greater barrier to a sane development, |
| 01:00.34 | brlcad | i don't know how my car's exhaust sytem works exactly, but that doesn't make it good/bad |
| 01:00.39 | tupone | at least in bzflag |
| 01:00.41 | AAA_awright | Which would exclude me, meteorite, theme, and tanner |
| 01:00.50 | brlcad | no, actually I don't mean that |
| 01:01.04 | brlcad | i think anyone working on the code should strive to get access |
| 01:01.09 | Macrosoft | warning: geek level in channel is rising dangerously |
| 01:01.15 | brlcad | access is not limited arbitrarily |
| 01:01.37 | AAA_awright | With git you don't need to worry about that, and you can more easily choose who to trust |
| 01:01.53 | brlcad | by removing the conversation loop? |
| 01:01.58 | brlcad | that doesn't solve the problem |
| 01:02.18 | AAA_awright | If someone starts submitting a bunch of great forks, they can eventually be able to merge them by themselves when they get permission. |
| 01:02.31 | brlcad | if you're not willing to basically show that your changes aren't going to cause a problem, then it's still the same issue |
| 01:02.49 | brlcad | the i differcene is really whether it's a burden on you or me or both |
| 01:02.53 | AAA_awright | It's just a better way to patch (or a series of patches representing multiple commmits), that's all. |
| 01:04.15 | TD-Linux | AAA_awright, I never see you in this channel discussing your changes to bzflag :/ |
| 01:04.32 | TD-Linux | though I'm not on this channel all day |
| 01:05.42 | AAA_awright | TD-Linux: a good 2/3 of my activity in #bzflag is pushing recommentations |
| 01:05.56 | brlcad | weasel wording doesn't prove the point, it boils down to interactions between developers -- one requires that interaction, the other doesn't |
| 01:05.59 | brlcad | i say that interaction is critical, you're saying it's not or shouldn't matter until later |
| 01:06.43 | tupone | for bzflag I think we only need agreed plans and commitment. cvs/svn/git don't count if we have not achieved that |
| 01:07.12 | brlcad | to each their own, but there's really not much more than that |
| 01:07.18 | AAA_awright | Which is hard when the former head developer himself says "we have no plans, nor will we ever" |
| 01:07.18 | brlcad | yeah, that's a different problem altogether ;) |
| 01:07.45 | tupone | who is the former head developer? |
| 01:07.46 | AAA_awright | Something I keep trying to stop (http://bzflag.redjacket.ws/specs/listserver-upgrade.html) |
| 01:09.22 | brlcad | AAA_awright: you're another good case in point, which is pretty clear why you're arguing for git from my view -- there's really NO reason why you couldn't get commit access, you've just also got a strong tendancy of nibm and not wanting to work with the existing devs it seems (at least that's my impression) |
| 01:10.08 | brlcad | all it really takes is general "good faith" efforts to show that someone isn't going to cause problems, that they're even just mildly competent, but more importantly that they can collaborate effectively |
| 01:10.27 | brlcad | i think you could do that, why you haven't, I don 't know ;) |
| 01:11.03 | brlcad | and jeff's never been the head dev any more than any other core dev |
| 01:11.18 | TD-Linux | the most visible one, certainly |
| 01:11.18 | brlcad | we're all just core devs with a heavy investment of time and care |
| 01:11.37 | brlcad | consensus is what we generally strive for, and merit following closely behind |
| 01:11.52 | brlcad | TD-Linux: depends what month of what year |
| 01:12.08 | brlcad | some months it's DTR, some months tupone, some months someone else |
| 01:12.45 | brlcad | certainly a pretty vocal guy and with quite the bzlegacy in terms of invested involvement, but he's also not alone in that regard |
| 01:13.14 | *** join/#bzflag bier_ (n=bier@p54A53D99.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:14.45 | AAA_awright | head whatever the position was |
| 01:15.04 | brlcad | if getting commit access was something "hard" or even mildly complex, it would make complete success, but the hesitation to work with the existing devs on what amounts to really petty commit criteria just steams of not wanting to work together, and that doesn't help |
| 01:15.26 | brlcad | s/success/sense/ |
| 01:16.26 | AAA_awright | I don't see developers working together on #bzflag. Heck, more collaboration per project is done on #bzfx then #bzflag. The only development that is done here lately is bzworkbench and the world generator. |
| 01:16.29 | brlcad | it's not a holy insider club, anyone can get access by just making a couple patches and having a couple easy discussions |
| 01:17.25 | brlcad | of course, most of the guys that do work collaboratively have been consumed by gsoc activities, mentoring, etc lately |
| 01:17.38 | brlcad | that does take time, reviewing their work, writing up papers |
| 01:17.58 | AAA_awright | That is my problem, I don't write C++ patches, I delegate work, design structures, and write PHP. The only thing I do to C code is read/approve/reject it. |
| 01:18.24 | brlcad | never had to be c++ patches |
| 01:19.09 | AAA_awright | I submitted one rewrite to weblogin.php which sat there for 6 months then got rejected when I brought the subject up for the 2nd or third time. |
| 01:20.16 | brlcad | just because a specific patch is rejected doesn't tell anything, if you had commit access or not, the merits of the change have to stand on their own |
| 01:20.43 | brlcad | so someone disagreed with your change, I believe _that_ came up in every single discussion too |
| 01:24.07 | brlcad | i mean, part of coding with a group is not necessarily just having the decision power, having to answer to others, defend a design decision on its technical merits and sometimes actually still getting shut down |
| 01:24.38 | brlcad | if tupone disagrees with some code i write, I listen to his concerns .. I see how I can adjust/change to those concerns |
| 01:24.49 | brlcad | if they're big enough of a deal, I revert the change, even if I think it's great |
| 01:25.34 | tupone | Thanks, but you are one of the few :) |
| 01:25.42 | tupone | nite |
| 01:25.46 | brlcad | part of working together, contrary to what you've seen or not, it happens all the time to varying levels of collaboration |
| 01:26.08 | brlcad | heh, cya tupone |
| 01:30.18 | AAA_awright | Thats the sort of stuff I *try* and get started here |
| 01:31.01 | AAA_awright | Typical responses I get is "We don't work together, developers are selfish" "We do that right before a release" "There is no 'masater plan'" etc... |
| 01:31.24 | brlcad | and that all comes from one voice for the most part |
| 01:33.07 | brlcad | there are what about 65 names in here, about 20% have access if not more |
| 01:33.21 | Macrosoft | 62 names |
| 01:33.26 | brlcad | part is talking about how things have been for many years, which isn't to say that they can't be that way |
| 01:33.30 | Macrosoft | err... 63 |
| 01:33.35 | brlcad | s/that way/different/ |
| 01:33.49 | *** part/#bzflag Ebert (n=EbErT@adsl-218-33-160.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:33.52 | brlcad | but it is true that you generally cannot make anyone do anything, you can just ask and encourage |
| 01:34.45 | brlcad | jeff's complaints go back several more years than you've been around and are generally soured by one person in particular |
| 01:34.59 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r15444 10/trunk/bzworkbench/ (MSVC/VC7.1/BZWorkbench.vcproj TextUtils.cxx): |
| 01:34.59 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: TextUtils.cxx needs defines.h to use the define for vsnprintf (still needs to be manually uncommented in defines.h) |
| 01:34.59 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: Update the VC7.1 project libraries and RTTI setting to work for release builds |
| 01:35.04 | JeffM | huh what? |
| 01:35.06 | brlcad | whom, if active, you'd probably be soured too if he were actually around more |
| 01:35.31 | JeffM | I'm just an ass, that's all |
| 01:35.46 | brlcad | JeffM: project management discussions, pie in the sky ideology |
| 01:35.47 | blast007 | (sorry to interrupt) but I have a working build of BZWB for Windows. Should I toss it into a .zip file and put it on beta.bzflag.bz? |
| 01:36.00 | JeffM | ass I tell you |
| 01:36.09 | JeffM | blast007, hellz yeah |
| 01:36.24 | brlcad | blast007: awesome |
| 01:36.51 | brlcad | JeffM: but a gruffly loveable one with massive "seating" ;) |
| 01:37.02 | Macrosoft | blast007: "working binaries" as in binaries? |
| 01:37.18 | Macrosoft | err... "working build" |
| 01:37.20 | blast007 | Macrosoft: yeah |
| 01:37.36 | Macrosoft | blast007: you think it would work on WINE? |
| 01:37.50 | blast007 | Macrosoft: BZWB builds on linux too :P |
| 01:37.55 | tannerld | heh |
| 01:38.13 | Macrosoft | blast007: i havent been able to meet its requirements, though |
| 01:38.25 | blast007 | Macrosoft: you can't build OSG and FLTK? |
| 01:38.52 | blast007 | people were complaining about building OSG on Windows. Wasn't that bad actually. |
| 01:39.17 | blast007 | yeah |
| 01:39.29 | blast007 | the CMake part is actually pretty cool |
| 01:39.36 | brlcad | AAA_awright: seriously .. if you want to inspire change, make a couple non-controversial patches -- show that you are more likely to help than hinder and you'd get that access pretty quick ... it's all just about working together, and not being a pain in the process (even/especially if/when folks disagree) |
| 01:39.38 | forrestv | can someone apply this patch to svn trunk? http://voight.biz/bz.diff |
| 01:39.54 | tannerld | blast007: so you're uploading the bzwb windows binary to beta.bzflag.bz? |
| 01:39.59 | blast007 | tannerld: yeah |
| 01:40.05 | tannerld | blast007: cool :) |
| 01:40.14 | forrestv | its for compatibility for gcc4 |
| 01:40.28 | Macrosoft | blast007: thats why i couldnt build it, i get a "cmake: command not found" error |
| 01:40.32 | brlcad | same goes for tannerld a_meteorite Winny and the sea of others that could/should be working off of the mainline |
| 01:41.13 | brlcad | dunno, are you? :) |
| 01:41.42 | blast007 | Macrosoft: install cmake then |
| 01:42.04 | AAA_awright | I don't work on uncontroversial stuff. If it was uncontroversial, it would already be merged in. I get right to the core of network and design philosophy--which for some reason people have a hard time with. |
| 01:42.11 | Macrosoft | blast007: "sudo apt-get install cmake"? |
| 01:42.30 | forrestv | AAA_awright: what do you think? |
| 01:42.50 | AAA_awright | Think about what? |
| 01:42.54 | forrestv | the patch |
| 01:43.06 | a_meteorite | forrestv: and why would that improve gcc4 compatibility? I compile bzflag on gcc4 on my mac all the time, I don't get any warnings |
| 01:43.07 | blast007 | forrestv: he's not a dev |
| 01:43.17 | AAA_awright | I just downloaded, will take a look |
| 01:43.21 | forrestv | i know |
| 01:43.43 | forrestv | a_meteorite: gcc 4.2? with --enable-debug ? |
| 01:43.45 | brlcad | AAA_awright: if it's still a "for some reason", then you've not been listening to their concerns and have just been trying to justify a position |
| 01:45.03 | brlcad | and regardless, that still gets at the heart of actually working well with others -- if you're not willing to listen and work with others other than to bark out implementation directions that you see fit and/or to approve/disapprove things, then yeah.. that's a fundamental problem |
| 01:45.26 | AAA_awright | forrestv: It looks like it just fixes bugs with compilers, which is always a good thing (if it is a system we aim to support, that is) |
| 01:45.46 | trepan | there are lots of features that wouldn't create controversy and have not been merged in |
| 01:45.48 | forrestv | yes |
| 01:46.43 | a_meteorite | forrestv: Hello Paul Voight, 16137 SW 74th Place, Miami, FL. (305) 235-6335 |
| 01:46.52 | AAA_awright | I can cause controversy over anything. Like that stupid "load plugins in a directory" thing-- when I thought was going to be enabled by default. (Sorry, just need to give examples) |
| 01:46.54 | a_meteorite | That's what happens when you post your domain. ;) |
| 01:47.37 | brlcad | trepan: true though really rare from folks that hang around and interact |
| 01:47.44 | forrestv | a_meteorite: first, not my real name, i'm his son (forrest, duh). second, i know that (its from whois) |
| 01:48.05 | a_meteorite | We like to know cheater's address. |
| 01:48.10 | a_meteorite | *addresses |
| 01:48.30 | forrestv | how thoughtful |
| 01:48.46 | *** join/#bzflag Noodleman (n=tuckerm@ip68-0-117-235.tu.ok.cox.net) |
| 01:49.08 | brlcad | a_meteorite: is that really helpful? |
| 01:49.17 | a_meteorite | brlcad: Nope. :) |
| 01:49.23 | brlcad | then cut it out |
| 01:49.43 | a_meteorite | brlcad: Just wanted it to get included in the bzflag logs. ;) |
| 01:49.53 | a_meteorite | Gotta remember it. |
| 01:49.54 | forrestv | a_meteorite: yummy |
| 01:49.55 | Noodleman | relevance...? |
| 01:50.07 | brlcad | which I entirely don't appreciate, take your vigilante effort off the channel |
| 01:50.27 | a_meteorite | nor planning to, but eh. |
| 01:50.30 | L4m3r | tact, met. *cough* |
| 01:50.34 | Noodleman | boot! boot! boot! |
| 01:50.37 | Noodleman | yay! |
| 01:50.39 | Noodleman | go ops! |
| 01:50.44 | forrestv | a_meteorite: mail me a card! |
| 01:50.52 | brlcad | seriously, that was entirely uncalled for and inappropriate |
| 01:51.01 | brlcad | i don't care what the f*ck he's done on servers |
| 01:51.08 | a_meteorite | whois information IS public |
| 01:51.19 | brlcad | big deal? |
| 01:51.27 | forrestv | a_meteorite: i knew that when i registered a domain, and didn't really care |
| 01:51.28 | brlcad | it's still wrong |
| 01:51.30 | a_meteorite | just pointing that out |
| 01:51.39 | blast007 | brlcad: can you fix the owner on the 'tools' directory for beta.bzflag.bz? :) |
| 01:52.00 | brlcad | DNS was founded on public information for positive purposes, not to punish folks |
| 01:52.02 | forrestv | a_meteorite: lolololol |
| 01:52.02 | blast007 | or can I fix that? |
| 01:52.18 | forrestv | a_meteorite: right back at you. i looked at my logs and know your ip |
| 01:52.30 | a_meteorite | forrestv: Not that I really care. It traces back to cities I don't live in. |
| 01:52.42 | AAA_awright | brlcad: Assume BZFlag had near-free-as-in-beer access to free-as-in-freedom servers strategically placed across the globe. |
| 01:52.45 | blast007 | take it private |
| 01:52.57 | blast007 | (forrestv and a_meteorite) |
| 01:53.06 | brlcad | blast007: I don't see a tools dir |
| 01:53.18 | blast007 | er, sorry, builds/tools |
| 01:53.33 | AAA_awright | Would it be feasible to balance MySQL and apache servers for redundant access? |
| 01:53.52 | a_meteorite | AAA_awright: if someone donated the resources |
| 01:54.00 | AAA_awright | See primary assumption |
| 01:54.01 | a_meteorite | it's been talked about |
| 01:54.14 | AAA_awright | Until Jeff blasted my idea for exactly that |
| 01:54.34 | brlcad | blast007: fixed -- i think you could have too, but it would have taken some effort |
| 01:55.34 | brlcad | AAA_awright: sure it's feasible |
| 01:55.54 | brlcad | he didn't blast your idea because it wasn't good fr bad, more just that there is already a (good) plan for that |
| 01:56.09 | L4m3r | The server we have is more than adequate for what we need it for. The issue is that certain things bog it down a lot more than they should... i.e. the list server |
| 01:56.13 | brlcad | that has been discussed and everyone for the most part likes |
| 01:56.46 | brlcad | to discuss a new approach is kinda fruitless or at least would require a lot of the *same* discussions we've already had |
| 01:57.02 | Macrosoft | ~bzwb |
| 01:57.04 | blast007 | I'd rather focus on making the code more efficient and stable |
| 01:57.09 | brlcad | you can't (or shouldn't) complain that there aren't plans and then when there are good plans bitch because they're not the ones you came up with :) |
| 01:57.12 | blast007 | then worry about load balancing and stuff later |
| 01:57.18 | Macrosoft | ~bzworkbench |
| 01:57.18 | ibot | i heard bzworkbench is a bzflag world file editor being developed by jude-, or http://bzworkbench.wordpress.com/ |
| 01:57.31 | brlcad | we actually have two servers |
| 01:57.36 | brlcad | we're just not using the other yet |
| 01:57.44 | AAA_awright | Oh? |
| 01:57.48 | brlcad | yep |
| 01:57.53 | L4m3r | ideally we'll have a more modular system eventually, anyway, so the services can be separated if need be |
| 01:57.56 | brlcad | sitting over in germany |
| 01:58.10 | blast007 | L4m3r: well, maybe |
| 01:58.12 | L4m3r | which is a lot less complex than mirroring or splitting the whole system |
| 01:58.32 | blast007 | I'd like to merge stats with the main site, for instance |
| 01:58.35 | AAA_awright | Do we need the list server re-written? My spec requires it to be. |
| 01:58.47 | blast007 | AAA_awright: I'm already doing that |
| 01:58.53 | AAA_awright | No, a better question is when do we re-write it, and ship the rewrite. |
| 01:58.56 | Macrosoft | hmm... who here knows the svn url for bzwb? |
| 01:58.59 | brlcad | yes, existing list server (as attached to phpbb) is not long-term maintainable/extendible |
| 01:59.14 | AAA_awright | See CIA-23: /trunk/bzworkbench/ |
| 01:59.18 | blast007 | Macrosoft: https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzworkbench/ |
| 01:59.20 | brlcad | blast's got something good going, hopefully keeps at it :) |
| 01:59.38 | AAA_awright | Last I checked it was structured awfully. |
| 01:59.41 | blast007 | brlcad: I've done a little bit on it today ;) |
| 01:59.47 | AAA_awright | OO would be a blessing for the list server. |
| 02:00.05 | blast007 | AAA_awright: I started thinking that myself, but then just couldn't see it |
| 02:00.12 | blast007 | what would it give me? |
| 02:00.13 | AAA_awright | See what? |
| 02:00.19 | blast007 | see that OO would be nice |
| 02:00.20 | AAA_awright | blast007: Less code. |
| 02:00.26 | blast007 | nope |
| 02:00.30 | blast007 | wouldn't give me that |
| 02:00.49 | blast007 | so far, what I'm doing is very specific to the list server itself |
| 02:00.56 | blast007 | therefore, it wouldn't be reused much |
| 02:01.03 | AAA_awright | Who wants to bet when I can be finished with a fully functional OO list server, starting now? |
| 02:01.04 | blast007 | and the things that are, I already have as functions |
| 02:01.11 | blast007 | AAA_awright: don't bother |
| 02:01.19 | brlcad | AAA_awright: see that's what I mean .. NIBM |
| 02:01.24 | blast007 | if you're going to do it all yourself, I don't want it |
| 02:01.30 | AAA_awright | I will bother, I have already started, and am twelve lines in. |
| 02:01.33 | blast007 | and it's not even that |
| 02:01.44 | blast007 | it's that you're doing it without anyone seeing what you're working on |
| 02:02.05 | blast007 | you don't want to work with anyone else |
| 02:02.25 | brlcad | it's not a freaking competition, or even about the end-goal code-wise, it's about working together on a maintainable result that the majority like |
| 02:02.25 | blast007 | I'll be working with Constitution, who wants to work on the group management system |
| 02:03.31 | AAA_awright | blast007: http://labs.redjacket.ws/bzfls/bzfls.class.php?s |
| 02:03.37 | *** join/#bzflag forrestv2 (n=forrestv@c-75-74-170-187.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 02:03.45 | AAA_awright | All my source files have some sort of view-source function |
| 02:04.28 | blast007 | you have SQL right in the List Server class? |
| 02:04.34 | AAA_awright | http://labs.redjacket.ws/bzfsdb/dbstat.q.php?source, http://bzflag.redjacket.ws/index.php/source/scan.php, ect... |
| 02:04.48 | AAA_awright | blast007: You do |
| 02:04.57 | AAA_awright | That is a good thing |
| 02:04.57 | *** part/#bzflag Rawk (n=unknown@203.173.182.186) |
| 02:05.09 | forrestv2 | any devs: please apply voight.biz/bz.diff , to the trunk. i submitted a patch, but it was only applied to the 2.0 branch. |
| 02:05.32 | blast007 | AAA_awright: no, I don't have any SQL inside bzfls.php |
| 02:05.34 | brlcad | forrestv2: link? |
| 02:05.48 | forrestv2 | brlcad: voight.biz/bz.diff |
| 02:05.49 | blast007 | http://voight.biz/bz.diff |
| 02:05.55 | brlcad | ah |
| 02:05.59 | AAA_awright | blast007: Are you suggesting something? |
| 02:06.08 | forrestv2 | o sry |
| 02:06.35 | AAA_awright | blast007: The original list server does. |
| 02:06.48 | blast007 | have I ever said that was a good design? |
| 02:06.56 | blast007 | I say the opposite |
| 02:07.43 | brlcad | forrestv2: bah, p1 patch :) |
| 02:07.51 | AAA_awright | I use prepared statments for my list server scanner, because it is efficent (and looks better). It doesn't make sense in a quick operation that only runs one sql statment then quits. |
| 02:08.00 | forrestv2 | brlcad: :) |
| 02:08.20 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r15445 10/trunk/bzflag/ (AUTHORS NEWS data/l10n/bzflag_fr.po): accept sf patch 1705619 from sbgodin, improved french localization |
| 02:09.53 | brlcad | forrestv2: done |
| 02:10.05 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r15446 10/trunk/bzflag/src/ (8 files in 5 dirs): accept forrestv's patch of compilation warning tweaks, from voight.biz as file bz.diff |
| 02:10.21 | forrestv2 | brlcad: thanks |
| 02:10.31 | brlcad | thank you |
| 02:10.36 | brlcad | keep 'em coming ;) |
| 02:10.47 | trepan | setenv() is preferred to putenv(), no? |
| 02:11.05 | brlcad | putenv is much older |
| 02:11.06 | brlcad | but yeah |
| 02:11.18 | trepan | (char *)"SDL_SINGLEDISPLAY=1" -- sets off warnings ;-) |
| 02:11.25 | brlcad | if you're looking for more compatibility, putenv is the way to go, setenv replaced it many years later |
| 02:11.54 | brlcad | ah, it's a const char |
| 02:12.01 | AAA_awright | blast007: Don't fool me, you are doing the exact same thing with the SQL I am doing, just you have it in a seperate class. |
| 02:12.55 | trepan | the NOTES section of the man page for putenv is has a nice tale about pointers are string copies ... setenv(const char *name, const char *value, int overwrite) is cleaner |
| 02:12.57 | blast007 | did I ever say I didn't use SQL? |
| 02:13.12 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r15447 10/trunk/bzflag/src/platform/SDLDisplay.cxx: requell |
| 02:13.22 | AAA_awright | You are putting it in a seperate file, though, which is bad for extendability |
| 02:13.36 | blast007 | AAA_awright: please explain |
| 02:13.50 | blast007 | I have it as a data abstraction layer |
| 02:14.02 | brlcad | trepan: yep, they fixed several problems with it .. getenv is similarly "broken by design" but widespread use |
| 02:14.07 | blast007 | instead of abstracting SQL, I'm abstracting access to the data itself |
| 02:14.21 | blast007 | so I could replace that one file with one that uses LDAP |
| 02:14.32 | brlcad | which is the intent ;) |
| 02:14.43 | AAA_awright | If you want to extend the data layer, you have to change the class name in several places. Put the data layer as a class extending the logic layer, and you can have any method for extending. LDAP, MySQL, or some other database. |
| 02:14.56 | Macrosoft | ! http://pastebin.ca/670800 |
| 02:15.15 | blast007 | why would I want to maintain MySQL after I ditch it for LDAP? |
| 02:15.32 | AAA_awright | You do NOT want to ditch MySQL entirely |
| 02:15.45 | trepan | brlcad: looks like the code is also for win32, wonder if it has a setenv() |
| 02:15.48 | blast007 | for the list server, why not? |
| 02:16.01 | AAA_awright | But if you do want to, extending the logic layer is the best way, not calling the data layer as a class inside. |
| 02:16.01 | L4m3r | Macrosoft: I don't know what they are, off the top of my head, but you need some libs to build bzwb. |
| 02:16.16 | blast007 | OSG, FLTK |
| 02:16.18 | brlcad | trepan: "pretty sure" it does |
| 02:16.19 | Macrosoft | L4m3r: i have installed them already |
| 02:16.31 | L4m3r | what OS? |
| 02:16.36 | Macrosoft | linux |
| 02:16.45 | AAA_awright | Back to why you want to use MySQL, it is the single most efficient back-end period. |
| 02:16.52 | L4m3r | installed the dev packages too? |
| 02:16.57 | Macrosoft | yeah |
| 02:16.59 | brlcad | alas only getenv is POSIX iirc |
| 02:17.01 | blast007 | AAA_awright: do you have evidence of this? |
| 02:17.07 | AAA_awright | You may want to use LDAP protocol for authenticating users |
| 02:17.24 | blast007 | "may" ? |
| 02:17.25 | AAA_awright | I support that, we can merge the phpbb and mediawiki user tables that way |
| 02:17.35 | blast007 | have you not been listening for the last several months? |
| 02:17.47 | trepan | setenv() is 4.3BSD, POSIX.1-2001 conformant (or so they tell me ;-) |
| 02:18.00 | AAA_awright | I am only repeatingwhat I have heard over the last few months |
| 02:18.06 | brlcad | really? i thought only getenv .. hm |
| 02:18.11 | blast007 | AAA_awright: why else would we ues LDAP, if not to move auth to it? |
| 02:18.16 | blast007 | use* |
| 02:18.27 | AAA_awright | Anyways, MySQL is the ONLY thing to move for server lists and logging data. |
| 02:18.32 | brlcad | ah, so it is |
| 02:18.35 | brlcad | http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/setenv.html |
| 02:18.35 | AAA_awright | er... |
| 02:18.48 | blast007 | AAA_awright: why can't we store servers in LDAP? |
| 02:18.55 | AAA_awright | Horrible idea |
| 02:18.59 | blast007 | why? |
| 02:19.08 | trepan | but getenv()/putenv() are also C89 / C99 |
| 02:19.19 | AAA_awright | You can't access the data in a way you would want to |
| 02:19.24 | brlcad | yeah, ancient calls |
| 02:19.29 | trepan | probably the reason i haven't found the win32 equiv. yet... |
| 02:19.34 | blast007 | when you set up a domain for a company, it contains the users, groups, computers, domain controllers, among other objects |
| 02:19.38 | AAA_awright | Even when you can, you cannot access it efficiently, if effectively |
| 02:19.40 | brlcad | go back to k&r via the bsd impl |
| 02:19.47 | brlcad | trepan: _setenv()? |
| 02:19.51 | AAA_awright | If at all! |
| 02:19.58 | brlcad | probably just need the #define setenv _setenv |
| 02:20.05 | blast007 | AAA_awright: again, evidence? |
| 02:20.25 | blast007 | are you just spouting stuff you "feel" is correct, or do you have any backing for this? |
| 02:20.40 | blast007 | you're just wasting my time |
| 02:21.04 | AAA_awright | With SQL you tell the database what you want, and it grabs it in the most efficient manner. No logic is needed to get data. |
| 02:21.17 | blast007 | for those interested, I have the win32 build of BZWorkBench up at http://beta.bzflag.bz/builds/tools/bzworkbench-20070825-r15444.zip |
| 02:21.23 | blast007 | making a forum post now |
| 02:21.25 | brlcad | regardless, they're going in -- the performance issues (IF they exist, which they don't, talk about optimizing early) can be sorted out in many ways |
| 02:21.26 | AAA_awright | LDAP does not allow for that. |
| 02:21.39 | brlcad | the reason for that is so that all authenticating agents are in the same db |
| 02:21.58 | trepan | brlcad: don't see _setenv() listed (mingw32msvc headers mind you ;-) |
| 02:21.59 | brlcad | which is going to be players, groups, and servers |
| 02:22.35 | brlcad | trepan: I would have expected the win32 headers to have it, not mingw .. mingw should just have setenv :) |
| 02:22.56 | brlcad | but whatever, putenv works :) |
| 02:23.32 | brlcad | AAA_awright: does it really boil down to a debate between sdl and ldap for you? |
| 02:23.36 | brlcad | s/sdl/sql/ |
| 02:24.11 | AAA_awright | A relational database is the ONLY appropriate data storage and access method for the data we handle. Besides users and maybe groups. |
| 02:24.15 | brlcad | kinda moot, that's where what I mentioned earlier about already having a plan that can work and rehashing (really) old discussions for the n'th time |
| 02:24.45 | brlcad | in your humble opinion that is how you see it |
| 02:24.58 | brlcad | er, not-so-humble, but it's your opinion nonetheless |
| 02:25.05 | blast007 | from the MSDN docs, there is a SetEnvironmentVariable |
| 02:25.26 | brlcad | yuck, if putenv works, that'd be better than forking off a #ifdef WIN32 in there |
| 02:25.36 | AAA_awright | We need the relational part, we need the data-information access part. ldap allows for none of that. ldap had entirely different design goals in mind, and it satisfies those goals. |
| 02:25.48 | AAA_awright | We are better off using a flat text file. |
| 02:26.42 | brlcad | we need lots of things, that's pretty high and mighty assumption to think that ldap is going to "do everything" |
| 02:27.01 | brlcad | ldap stores a directory, it does this well |
| 02:27.05 | brlcad | we need a directory |
| 02:27.06 | AAA_awright | ldap does not do "everything" |
| 02:27.09 | brlcad | pretty simple |
| 02:27.13 | AAA_awright | SERVERS!=DIRECTORIES |
| 02:27.31 | AAA_awright | Directories are not relational data. |
| 02:27.40 | brlcad | i never said servers are directories |
| 02:27.51 | brlcad | servers would be entities in said directory |
| 02:28.06 | brlcad | just as your address is a directory entry in a phone book |
| 02:29.04 | AAA_awright | And how do we cross-reference data? |
| 02:29.17 | AAA_awright | Operate with functions? |
| 02:29.17 | brlcad | I think it's a matter of you're trying to solve problem D/E/F when we're working on problem A/B/C |
| 02:29.43 | brlcad | the actual problem being worked on is that the list server is tied to phpbb at the moment |
| 02:29.55 | brlcad | and that the implementation is custom and been proven to be unmaintainable |
| 02:30.04 | AAA_awright | My spec solves that. |
| 02:30.12 | brlcad | g'damn |
| 02:30.15 | brlcad | it's not about you |
| 02:30.19 | L4m3r | No one died and made you king, AAA_awright |
| 02:30.20 | brlcad | do you hear yourself? |
| 02:30.44 | AAA_awright | It's merely proof that that does not mean thats the only way. |
| 02:31.00 | brlcad | the implementation approach also being worked on solves it as would about a DOZEN other ways of working on it |
| 02:31.27 | brlcad | and the differences are truely petty |
| 02:31.36 | brlcad | as they can all be managed and coded for |
| 02:31.59 | AAA_awright | ldap is completely inappropriate for storage of stuff like servers. |
| 02:32.09 | AAA_awright | As for being coded for, |
| 02:32.20 | brlcad | well I think you're wrong, pretty outright |
| 02:32.25 | brlcad | it's a network entity |
| 02:32.45 | brlcad | it has authentication properties, it has location, it has parameters not much different than a player |
| 02:32.50 | L4m3r | how is it inappropriate? we're not doing anything complicated. Almost all of it is straight lookups. |
| 02:33.44 | brlcad | as for how that data is used .. well that's entirely different - that could *still* be done with a relational db or just dealt with in memory, or dealt with via cache files, or about a dozen other things |
| 02:34.24 | brlcad | the directory provides a consistent standard home that can actually be shared across the web apps, which a custom db approach would not provide |
| 02:34.46 | brlcad | that along IS a deal breaker .. we want the info in one place |
| 02:35.04 | brlcad | logging into the website, into the game, into the forums, etc |
| 02:35.12 | brlcad | without customizing everything |
| 02:35.31 | AAA_awright | How would you do that? servers and users and groups are kept separately right now. |
| 02:35.52 | brlcad | right, they are separate right now |
| 02:35.54 | brlcad | and it's a problem |
| 02:36.02 | AAA_awright | We just need one standard interface for users. That's it. |
| 02:36.09 | brlcad | a problem that we're working on rectifying by ... using a directory |
| 02:36.21 | brlcad | we need more than a standard interface for users, sorry |
| 02:36.22 | AAA_awright | Even if it is a protocol, it doesn't even need to be a back end. |
| 02:36.46 | AAA_awright | The applications don't care who the back end is. |
| 02:37.10 | brlcad | the web apps certainly care |
| 02:37.15 | brlcad | without customization at least |
| 02:37.21 | brlcad | and we're not going back down that road |
| 02:37.40 | brlcad | it's not a maintainable solution |
| 02:37.58 | AAA_awright | brlcad: The web apps only care what the protocol is |
| 02:38.01 | brlcad | so you can soapbox against ldap all you want, but that's a critical feature |
| 02:38.26 | brlcad | yes, and they're all written to either their own db tables interface or .. to ldap |
| 02:38.30 | AAA_awright | If they know how to request stuff with ldap, it doesn't matter if that information is stored in MySQL, a flat file, embedded database, or whatever. |
| 02:38.38 | AAA_awright | It's all ldap to them. |
| 02:39.00 | brlcad | huh? what're you saying? |
| 02:39.11 | brlcad | implement some ldap-protocol-speaking interface that stashes in mysql? |
| 02:39.21 | brlcad | that's called an ldap database |
| 02:39.29 | AAA_awright | It doesn't matter, it just needs to be ldap. |
| 02:40.07 | AAA_awright | What matters to the users, though, is efficiency. ldap isn't known for doing complex operations which we will need to do some of. |
| 02:40.23 | blast007 | Made a post about my build of BZWB: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=11372 |
| 02:40.31 | brlcad | and you've profiled this, seen the numbers and tested ldap and found it to be inadequate |
| 02:40.34 | blast007 | if anyone tries it out, let me know if the build works |
| 02:40.34 | brlcad | right |
| 02:41.05 | brlcad | otherwise you're talking out your ass based on prejudicial bias :) |
| 02:41.25 | *** join/#bzflag winwinwin (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/davidhkmrpowers) |
| 02:41.28 | brlcad | which isn't to say that even if there is a problem there, that it can't be taken care of |
| 02:41.38 | brlcad | it's not meant to do more than the directory |
| 02:41.47 | brlcad | the other needs can be evaluated when they're the problem being solved |
| 02:42.00 | brlcad | any other solution doesn't solve the web interface consistency issues |
| 02:42.33 | brlcad | and you might feel like writing an ldap server interface, but that's a major waste of time |
| 02:43.07 | brlcad | it's a storage, if you want logic or relations or *whatever* on top, that's the apps domain |
| 02:43.16 | brlcad | ldap was never touted for doing anything more |
| 02:44.43 | AAA_awright | Problem is that's counter-intuitive, because that is exactly what SQL was designed to solve. |
| 02:45.10 | AAA_awright | Apps shouldn't have to sift through data, when you have a database backend to do that. |
| 02:46.11 | brlcad | counter-intuitive to you perhaps .. there's a half-dozen others at least that have thought this through for much longer than you that think it's a good approach |
| 02:46.20 | brlcad | nobody said it couldn't be put into a data for that sort of processing |
| 02:46.30 | brlcad | hat just doesn't take ldap out of the picture |
| 02:46.53 | brlcad | ldap is the *only* consistent interface that the web apps will work with, do you follow that much? |
| 02:47.18 | brlcad | we're not going to write our own ldap server, that's a waste of time and doesn't solve the problem |
| 02:47.33 | AAA_awright | I did imply that, I didn't mean to., |
| 02:47.47 | brlcad | ldap does, however, solve the problem that it will unify the authentication resources into one place |
| 02:48.05 | brlcad | that is the problem we're solving right now |
| 02:48.15 | L4m3r | wow... |
| 02:48.22 | L4m3r | ~jude-++ |
| 02:48.36 | AAA_awright | We only have four things to unify, weblogin.php, phpbb, mediawiki, list server. |
| 02:49.15 | AAA_awright | Two of them are being re-written either way (list server) |
| 02:49.26 | brlcad | the plan for bzauthd went on to handle more issues like karma, in-game registration, stats, logging, and more, but there's effort going into the upgrade by blast007 so it's the route being taken today |
| 02:49.55 | AAA_awright | karma can't be trusted to servers, it can be trusted to networks, I am working on a karma system for bzfx |
| 02:50.14 | brlcad | nobody said that servers were going to be trusted with anything |
| 02:50.28 | AAA_awright | How do you do karma then? |
| 02:50.32 | brlcad | do you see the leap assumption you seemingly made? |
| 02:50.34 | AAA_awright | stats, logging, NEEDS the relational database model. Even for users. |
| 02:50.54 | blast007 | AAA_awright: try reading his whole sentence |
| 02:51.05 | AAA_awright | I did |
| 02:51.17 | AAA_awright | Who do we trust karma to then? Not administrators, not servers, not users |
| 02:51.26 | AAA_awright | That leaves everyone out :s |
| 02:51.31 | brlcad | uhm, I said bzauthd |
| 02:51.44 | brlcad | so you really aren't reading |
| 02:51.53 | brlcad | and i'm wasting my time trying to reason with you |
| 02:51.55 | AAA_awright | Who does bzauthd get karma information from? |
| 02:52.02 | blast007 | AAA_awright: how is your system different then? |
| 02:52.35 | blast007 | AAA_awright: who does YOUR system trust? |
| 02:52.37 | AAA_awright | Mine is centric on the fact we trust our own data. It wouldn't work for all servers. It works by |
| 02:52.58 | AAA_awright | logging ips, kills, team kills, reports, etc |
| 02:53.01 | brlcad | i told you months ago that your "plan" as written was only slightly different than what was already agreed to about a year before -- mostly you were ignoring integration aspects that are seen to be critical |
| 02:53.37 | AAA_awright | I just put it down on... paper... er... line. |
| 02:54.18 | AAA_awright | THEN asked if I got everything right (okay, I called it peer review. Still counts.) |
| 02:54.37 | blast007 | AAA_awright: no really, I'm curious, if you're saying that administrators, servers, and users can't be trusted for karma, then who DO you trust for karma? |
| 02:54.52 | blast007 | in your system |
| 02:55.03 | brlcad | and now for the *third* time, nobody is saying that the logic can't/won't be in an sql db at some point, but that's not the problem being solved and the approach being taken does solve the issues and can be expanded upon |
| 02:55.07 | Macrosoft | blast007: himself, of course :p |
| 02:55.12 | blast007 | Macrosoft: hehe |
| 02:55.21 | brlcad | so long as he feels he's invented it |
| 02:55.52 | AAA_awright | blast007: We can trust our own servers. BZFlag cannot trust 3rd party servers. |
| 02:56.01 | blast007 | 3rd party? |
| 02:56.09 | Macrosoft | ditto |
| 02:56.11 | blast007 | are you speaking of bzfs servers? |
| 02:56.12 | brlcad | AAA_awright: I also called you on the writeup and asked you several questions about a month and a half ago -- prodded you on several questions about what you wrote to which you didn't answer |
| 02:56.31 | AAA_awright | I thought I did, |
| 02:56.44 | AAA_awright | I at least corrected them in the document then told you. |
| 02:56.47 | brlcad | I specifically told you that you didn't |
| 02:57.09 | brlcad | i really am trying to work with you, but you gotta cut out the unidirection |
| 02:57.21 | AAA_awright | Hrm. |
| 02:57.30 | AAA_awright | blast007: How do you plan to do karma? |
| 02:57.41 | brlcad | if you're not willing to accept that you just might be wrong or that several approaches can work then we're both wasting our time |
| 02:57.57 | blast007 | AAA_awright: I don't |
| 02:58.05 | blast007 | never said I was |
| 02:58.20 | blast007 | karma is Tim's dream feature |
| 02:58.21 | brlcad | on my part, I've read your suggestions, they're not much different than what we'd already planned as I said and that it didn't negate the need for ldap |
| 02:58.34 | AAA_awright | brlcad said you were planning a system that included that. You never directly said you did... |
| 02:58.35 | brlcad | yes, karma is SO way down the priority pole |
| 02:58.51 | blast007 | AAA_awright: damn it, dude, READ |
| 02:58.59 | brlcad | i said that it had been discussed, not that HE was doing that part |
| 02:59.05 | blast007 | see the word "but" in his sentence? |
| 02:59.35 | blast007 | "but there's effort going into the upgrade by blast007 so it's the route being taken today" |
| 02:59.43 | brlcad | there was a design that was arrived at many many months ago that included a 'bzauthd' to be written in c++ that talks to the ldap as needed (_and_ to mysql if needed) |
| 03:00.08 | L4m3r | There's really no reason we couldn't trust servers, really- when we have better track of the public servers on the list, we can watch for, say, karma trolling and list server whoring, and any other abuse |
| 03:00.16 | brlcad | blast007 however, already had/has an implementation and has been making progress in a different language, so we're going with that at least for now because it similarly solves the same prbolems |
| 03:00.21 | L4m3r | but that's not a core feature of the system anyway |
| 03:00.38 | AAA_awright | so it's the route being taken today (I can use bold too!-- sorry) |
| 03:00.51 | brlcad | we can trust the servers if we have them as (drumroll) authenticated agents that have various levels of trust established |
| 03:01.00 | L4m3r | Bingo. |
| 03:01.09 | brlcad | I'd trust nidhoggr's old servers with pretty much the entire core data |
| 03:01.22 | brlcad | I wouldn't trust some other servers out there with much more than a player's name |
| 03:02.16 | AAA_awright | Just interested in this topic, I am not saying to implement anything. I have an entire list server interface library, who says I can't pipe in bad data that way? |
| 03:03.05 | L4m3r | Ideally, you could to a limited degree... but someone would notice |
| 03:03.35 | AAA_awright | Because we always notice a list server abuse</sarcasm> |
| 03:03.46 | brlcad | the implementation would say whether you could or couldn't |
| 03:03.59 | brlcad | depending on the access/auth interface |
| 03:04.22 | brlcad | you can always blather, whether anything listens or responds is an entirely different matter |
| 03:09.47 | brlcad | AAA_awright: exactly, and fwiw, the server has only reset once today (and apache2 crashed in the process of the reset when graceful reset failed) :) |
| 03:10.29 | JeffM | so who else was it that was noticing that fearless does squat? |
| 03:11.20 | brlcad | someone noticed?! |
| 03:11.23 | trepan | to urinate? |
| 03:11.26 | brlcad | he might need to ws |
| 03:11.43 | blast007 | hehe trepan ;) |
| 03:11.52 | *** join/#bzflag ahs3 (n=alvin@adsl-065-005-193-158.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 03:12.05 | brlcad | trepan: how's that other game coming along? |
| 03:12.07 | brlcad | they still active? |
| 03:12.19 | trepan | yup, it's going nicely |
| 03:12.28 | brlcad | don't you miss the love |
| 03:12.56 | trepan | added synced lua scripts, makes a bunch of new game modes / unit gfx / etc... possible |
| 03:13.30 | trepan | (as opposed to the unsynced client-side script capabilities i'd added ;-) |
| 03:14.28 | Macrosoft | trepan: what game? |
| 03:14.34 | trepan | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:14.43 | trepan | spring (aka: taspring) |
| 03:15.10 | AAA_awright | Storing the server IP as an unsigned int would be more efficient. Want a patch? |
| 03:15.17 | AAA_awright | For the list server. |
| 03:16.03 | Macrosoft | 32bit right? |
| 03:16.20 | AAA_awright | Yah |
| 03:16.24 | brlcad | trepan: i'm still interested, that lua interface sounds sweet .. but I wouldn't start on that till 2.3 .. we're way past release as it is with many changes |
| 03:16.31 | brlcad | looking for stability so we can release |
| 03:16.48 | trepan | brlcad: i traded the love for dynamic water gfx and lua+shader fun ;-) |
| 03:17.07 | brlcad | water shmater |
| 03:17.30 | brlcad | we got trepan-meshies |
| 03:17.43 | trepan | heh, so does spring now |
| 03:17.55 | trepan | i gave 'em lua controlled unit LODs ;-) |
| 03:18.30 | brlcad | you still coding anonymous? |
| 03:18.37 | trepan | na, i'm trepan there |
| 03:18.47 | brlcad | not quite so tainted eh :) |
| 03:19.02 | trepan | :) |
| 03:19.15 | brlcad | do they have a player community yet? how big in comparison? |
| 03:19.19 | Macrosoft | AAA_awright: then i am 4B4151E5 |
| 03:19.31 | Macrosoft | (aka 75.65.81.245) |
| 03:19.36 | trepan | usually about 200 / 250 logged in |
| 03:19.44 | brlcad | hm, so on par |
| 03:19.47 | trepan | (during player hours) |
| 03:20.14 | trepan | different setup though ... the games aren't persistent like bz's servers |
| 03:21.32 | L4m3r | ooooh pizza |
| 03:22.08 | AAA_awright | Yep |
| 03:22.09 | Macrosoft | *conclusion |
| 03:22.17 | Macrosoft | AAA_awright: ? |
| 03:22.31 | AAA_awright | Or 1262572021 in base 10 |
| 03:22.31 | L4m3r | yeah, ATi + linux = fail |
| 03:22.34 | L4m3r | in general |
| 03:23.12 | AAA_awright | Who announced open source linux drivers? I thought it was ATI. |
| 03:23.30 | Macrosoft | L4m3r: yeah, for nvidia, i either didnt meet the price requirement and/or i dont have pcie or agp slots |
| 03:23.56 | Macrosoft | ...so choices were limited |
| 03:24.02 | JeffM | is it a laptop? |
| 03:24.31 | Macrosoft | there are ati cards that are supported, i just happened to pick one of the only ones that doesnt work at all |
| 03:24.46 | Macrosoft | JeffM: no |
| 03:24.55 | blast007 | AAA_awright: Intel |
| 03:25.02 | JeffM | then why in the heck did you get a machine with out a video card slot? that's just stupid |
| 03:25.42 | JeffM | blast007, it needs ALL those OSG plug-ins? |
| 03:25.44 | Macrosoft | it has agp, but its permanently in use by the on-board card |
| 03:25.48 | blast007 | JeffM: no idea |
| 03:25.55 | blast007 | I just threw them all in just in case :P |
| 03:26.00 | JeffM | Macrosoft, if it has no slot, then it's pointless |
| 03:26.09 | blast007 | probably only needs the png plugin |
| 03:26.12 | JeffM | you should not have goten that computer |
| 03:26.25 | blast007 | since it ran without ANY plugin dll files, it just won't load textures |
| 03:26.36 | Macrosoft | JeffM: its better than what i used to use |
| 03:26.44 | JeffM | Macrosoft, no it's not |
| 03:27.30 | Macrosoft | ive always bought my computers used, cuz ive never had the cash to buy a new one |
| 03:27.43 | JeffM | yeah.. this is going to need some interface work |
| 03:27.47 | L4m3r | get a job, deadbeat :P |
| 03:27.48 | Winny | did someone say my name ages ago? my backlog doesn't go that far... |
| 03:27.55 | JeffM | Macrosoft, did you spend more then 400$? |
| 03:27.56 | Macrosoft | L4m3r: i have one |
| 03:28.06 | Macrosoft | JeffM: no, it was $200 |
| 03:28.21 | JeffM | and how long did it take you to sage that? |
| 03:28.24 | JeffM | save |
| 03:28.33 | Macrosoft | P4 with 512MB ram on intel mobo |
| 03:28.40 | Macrosoft | 2.2GHz |
| 03:29.04 | JeffM | yeah.... this needs lots of work :/ |
| 03:29.16 | Macrosoft | JeffM: not long at all, i just went and sold my PSP that was sitting around being useless |
| 03:29.20 | JeffM | but it's a start |
| 03:29.30 | JeffM | Macrosoft, then you should have waited and saved more |
| 03:29.33 | JeffM | you wasted 200$ |
| 03:30.00 | Macrosoft | JeffM: i had already wasted it when i bought the PSP in the first place :p |
| 03:30.41 | Macrosoft | ...although lumines2 was awesome |
| 03:32.27 | JeffM | blast007, did you build your own OSG? |
| 03:33.30 | blast007 | JeffM: yeah |
| 03:34.01 | JeffM | can you package up a set of debug and release .libs and dlls for it when you get a chance? |
| 03:34.28 | JeffM | or hell, just tell me how you built it? |
| 03:35.58 | AAA_awright | blast007: Is there some reason the developers continue to use 7.1 and not 8? |
| 03:36.12 | JeffM | AAA_awright, depends on what version they own |
| 03:36.17 | JeffM | dtr owns 8 |
| 03:36.22 | JeffM | I only have 7.1 |
| 03:36.32 | blast007 | AAA_awright: because I don't have $900 to upgrade? |
| 03:36.33 | AAA_awright | M$ makes you PAY to upgrade? |
| 03:36.40 | JeffM | umm yeah |
| 03:36.43 | JeffM | where have you been? |
| 03:36.56 | AAA_awright | A cave. You? |
| 03:37.07 | JeffM | living in the real world ;) |
| 03:37.13 | JeffM | yeah send us 900$ and we'll upgrade :) |
| 03:37.40 | AAA_awright | I thought so, just making sure. Is there some feature you need that the free version doesn't have? |
| 03:37.53 | blast007 | AAA_awright: the ability to release builds? |
| 03:37.59 | JeffM | yeah that's a big one |
| 03:38.08 | JeffM | legaly you can't distribute stuff made iwth EE |
| 03:38.12 | AAA_awright | I thought my crapware version did that. |
| 03:38.13 | JeffM | it's not a "free" version |
| 03:38.30 | JeffM | it's a striped down, educational version |
| 03:38.34 | JeffM | it's a license thing |
| 03:38.35 | AAA_awright | ianal, but I don't think you can legally enforce that. |
| 03:38.38 | JeffM | not a techicnal thing |
| 03:38.46 | blast007 | sure you can |
| 03:38.48 | Macrosoft | version of what? |
| 03:38.56 | JeffM | if we break a software license, then we have no right to hold anyone to our own |
| 03:38.57 | JeffM | we don't cheat |
| 03:39.10 | JeffM | the concept of a software license is the only thing keeping bzflag open. |
| 03:39.21 | AAA_awright | A compiler output contains no copyrighted code (the libraries might) |
| 03:39.28 | JeffM | it's the runtimes |
| 03:39.31 | JeffM | that's the deal |
| 03:39.39 | JeffM | that and EE has some suck |
| 03:39.54 | JeffM | it's not bad for most things, but I prefer the full version |
| 03:40.06 | AAA_awright | Okay. |
| 03:40.22 | JeffM | but also it has no huge benifit over 7.1 |
| 03:40.25 | JeffM | so I just use 7.1 |
| 03:40.34 | JeffM | the end product is the same for our users |
| 03:41.07 | AAA_awright | It seems counter-productive to keep two versions of makefiles for versions that are the "same". Idk. |
| 03:41.26 | JeffM | yeah we'll phase out 7.1 eventualy |
| 03:41.30 | JeffM | nature of the beast |
| 03:41.37 | JeffM | we phased out 6 the same way |
| 03:41.51 | Macrosoft | yay! osg is building |
| 03:41.58 | JeffM | the few windows devs don't care much |
| 03:42.05 | JeffM | cus realy, it's like what 3, 4 of us? |
| 03:42.26 | JeffM | all that ever needs to change is adding a file or 4 |
| 03:42.42 | JeffM | the windows build system isn't anywhere near as complex as the makefile |
| 03:45.57 | AAA_awright | My Gentoo box makes it seem easy. MSVS is very forgen |
| 03:46.26 | JeffM | hiting F5 is easy ;) |
| 03:46.52 | AAA_awright | Not finding libraries. Gentoo will compile the libraries for me, even if there are two conflicting ones. |
| 03:47.25 | AAA_awright | To date I have only been able to compile 2.1 once. And it prints an error when I quit. |
| 03:47.36 | AAA_awright | 2.1 on windows. |
| 03:48.12 | JeffM | trunk is set to build out of the box now for VC8 |
| 03:48.25 | Macrosoft | AAA_awright: thats because quitting is an error, why would you ever want to quit playing :p |
| 03:48.25 | JeffM | no third party libs needed |
| 03:49.01 | JeffM | all you need is the runtime libs and direct X |
| 03:50.20 | JeffM | if you want to do a disrobution build, you do need GLEW and curses |
| 03:50.36 | AAA_awright | c:\dev-cpp\projects\bzflag\include\bzfgl.h(22) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glew.h': No such file or directory |
| 03:50.50 | JeffM | what target are you doing? |
| 03:50.51 | AAA_awright | Ah |
| 03:51.01 | AAA_awright | Debug_Distribution Win32 |
| 03:51.12 | JeffM | do a regular debug |
| 03:51.14 | JeffM | not a distro |
| 03:51.29 | JeffM | distro is what we'll ship, and you can't do shiping ones with EE |
| 03:54.06 | JeffM | VC assumes you know something about development when your using a compiler |
| 03:54.12 | AAA_awright | I didn't know there was a difference. You build the program, stick it in an installer with data, and ship. |
| 03:54.48 | JeffM | it dosn't need to use the compiler as a distrobution system, beause windows has a decently relyable binary lib format that can take care of all the version issues that plauge nix |
| 03:55.01 | JeffM | AAA_awright, it all depends what you build with it |
| 03:55.07 | JeffM | we have so many options |
| 03:55.16 | JeffM | it's just a difrent way of doing things |
| 03:55.42 | JeffM | most windows users never have to compile anything |
| 03:55.52 | brlcad | likewise with mac users |
| 03:56.17 | JeffM | most nix users have to, cus making the bazilion difrent versions of a binary for all the possible runtime /lib combos is a nightmare for nix |
| 03:56.28 | JeffM | yeah since apple controlls the libs, it's very easy to make a bin for OSX |
| 03:56.34 | JeffM | you can know what to expect :) |
| 03:57.04 | brlcad | damn, not going to finish the gsoc writeup draft tonight i phear |
| 03:57.12 | JeffM | for all the hate people give it, COM is actualy a rather good system for dealing with lib versioning |
| 03:58.23 | JeffM | brlcad, comeon, if I can write 32 pages of a book ;) |
| 03:59.12 | brlcad | you know i'm all about the pretty .. takes time to get a nice layout with style and content merging well together |
| 03:59.36 | brlcad | i might submit this to gamedev to see if they're interested, long shot but why not |
| 03:59.54 | JeffM | please don't make me comment on that statement :) |
| 04:00.03 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:00.20 | brlcad | it's about the program, not the game :) |
| 04:00.27 | brlcad | at least not so much about the game |
| 04:00.36 | JeffM | it was the "I'm all about the pretty" part |
| 04:00.48 | JeffM | the SoC flyer beged to differ ;) |
| 04:01.01 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:01.16 | brlcad | oh, hah |
| 04:01.31 | brlcad | the SoC was more of a "it's good enough, it needs to go out the door asap" |
| 04:01.43 | JeffM | that it was |
| 04:01.49 | brlcad | and it did still look better than the half-dozen or so others visually |
| 04:02.07 | JeffM | Daniel and I have had comments on your visual design choices, they follow a pattern :) |
| 04:02.16 | JeffM | you LOVE the fonts |
| 04:02.36 | brlcad | where else have I used fonts? |
| 04:02.42 | JeffM | website stuff |
| 04:02.50 | brlcad | hmm |
| 04:03.02 | JeffM | it's ok, winny loves whitespace :) |
| 04:03.08 | JeffM | and I love grids |
| 04:03.23 | brlcad | that's usually one of those things I widdle down as it matures |
| 04:03.40 | brlcad | layout is way more important imho :) |
| 04:03.44 | JeffM | how big is the report? |
| 04:03.47 | brlcad | color choices, visual appeal |
| 04:03.59 | brlcad | it'll be about 10 pages I think |
| 04:04.08 | JeffM | goodly size |
| 04:04.13 | JeffM | pie charts? |
| 04:04.17 | brlcad | i was going for 5 |
| 04:04.17 | JeffM | everyone loves pie charts |
| 04:04.24 | Macrosoft | brlcad: no neon green font on an orange background, eh? |
| 04:04.36 | JeffM | only for your part Macrosoft |
| 04:04.41 | brlcad | no pie charts.. i thought about pulling some stats, but am trying to pull from existing content, not create new content |
| 04:04.55 | brlcad | and don't have any stats or graphs on hand |
| 04:05.18 | brlcad | now ... if someone wanted to compute the LoC or activity speckle graph of the students over the past three months.. that'd be cool ;) |
| 04:05.44 | JeffM | you could show commitcounts |
| 04:05.45 | Macrosoft | LoC? |
| 04:05.52 | JeffM | compared to the counts of all the others |
| 04:05.56 | blast007 | Macrosoft: lines of code |
| 04:06.01 | Macrosoft | oh |
| 04:06.27 | Macrosoft | osg build, halfway there |
| 04:07.00 | JeffM | bahh. I can't get this damned XFS drive to mount under gentoo on the O2 :( |
| 04:07.13 | brlcad | I could show lots of stuff, but it's taken about 20 hours of time writing and pulling data as it is, and I've got more to go |
| 04:07.47 | brlcad | so if someone else wants to pull commit counts, or line counts, or any sort of stats, just send me the data or graphs and you'll get credited ;) |
| 04:08.26 | AAA_awright | libcurl ,platform, and bzflag won't compile |
| 04:09.06 | JeffM | 4 pages is too short for a chapeter isn't it? |
| 04:09.12 | brlcad | yep |
| 04:09.19 | JeffM | AAA_awright, what errors do you get? |
| 04:09.22 | Macrosoft | AAA_awright: pastebin errors for devs |
| 04:09.22 | brlcad | unless you're writing a really brief short story |
| 04:09.37 | AAA_awright | One was mine, now just libcurl and bzflag |
| 04:09.54 | JeffM | it's up to 29 pages now, so not that short :) |
| 04:10.02 | JeffM | AAA_awright, show me the errors |
| 04:10.40 | AAA_awright | Cannot open include file: 'schnlsp.h': No such file or directory |
| 04:10.53 | AAA_awright | There isn't that much |
| 04:10.55 | JeffM | hell is that file |
| 04:11.33 | JeffM | did you install the windows sdk and direct X? |
| 04:11.42 | JeffM | in addition to VC8 ee? |
| 04:12.26 | AAA_awright | Yup |
| 04:12.42 | JeffM | that file is part of the platform SDK |
| 04:12.48 | *** part/#bzflag I_Died_Once (n=I_Died_O@unaffiliated/idiedonce/x-1828535) |
| 04:12.48 | brlcad | mm. peach schnalsp |
| 04:12.49 | AAA_awright | Alright, my only problem is that line. |
| 04:12.51 | JeffM | sounds like you didn't install it, or it's not configured properly |
| 04:12.58 | AAA_awright | I have the platform SDK installed |
| 04:13.06 | JeffM | did you install all the parts of the platform SDK? |
| 04:13.42 | AAA_awright | Yah, I copied in the paths |
| 04:14.11 | JeffM | let me see where it is, I have a clean EE install on a machinehere |
| 04:15.09 | AAA_awright | I can't find it anywhere in "/Microsoft Platform SDK for Windows Server 2003 R2" |
| 04:16.22 | JeffM | what file includes it? |
| 04:16.24 | JeffM | something in curl? |
| 04:20.50 | JeffM | and do you have that file as part of your include dir? |
| 04:21.12 | JeffM | there are multiple sections to install during the platform SDK, if you don't do them all, you don't get all the files. |
| 04:21.58 | JeffM | it's an ssl/security file, so it's probably labeld under the "IE" SDK |
| 04:22.09 | JeffM | that is one of the sub parts of the full SDK install |
| 04:26.06 | Macrosoft | 90% of osg built, almost there |
| 04:26.48 | JeffM | Macrosoft, dude, we don't need a running count of what your doing. this isn't your blog |
| 04:28.22 | AAA_awright | JeffM: 1>c:\program files\microsoft platform sdk for windows server 2003 r2\include\winldap.h(62) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'schnlsp.h': No such file or directory |
| 04:28.30 | AAA_awright | Thats the entire and only line |
| 04:28.42 | Winny | JeffM: are you hatin on my whitespace? |
| 04:28.55 | JeffM | and in your include dir does or does not have that file? |
| 04:29.03 | brlcad | heh, ldap header .. how appropriate :) |
| 04:29.05 | JeffM | Winny, never said hating, just stated your love for it |
| 04:29.14 | Winny | :p |
| 04:29.35 | JeffM | AAA_awright, I'm guessing that when you installed the platform SDK, you didn't do all the parts of it |
| 04:29.36 | AAA_awright | That dir is not on my system. At all. |
| 04:29.41 | JeffM | dir? |
| 04:29.44 | JeffM | it's a file |
| 04:29.47 | AAA_awright | The entire sdk is installed. |
| 04:29.53 | AAA_awright | I think... |
| 04:30.09 | JeffM | it'll be in whatever dir you isntalled to/include |
| 04:30.17 | JeffM | I have that file |
| 04:30.21 | blast007 | how do you not know if you installed the entire SDK? |
| 04:30.23 | JeffM | I installed all the sections |
| 04:30.34 | AAA_awright | I am very sure all of them were too |
| 04:30.45 | AAA_awright | I'm checking anyways... |
| 04:33.48 | JeffM | I just built curl fine |
| 04:33.56 | JeffM | there may be an issue with curses for bzadmin |
| 04:34.36 | AAA_awright | We don't need the Tablet PC API, do we? |
| 04:34.43 | JeffM | do it all |
| 04:36.00 | AAA_awright | Dang, that worked :p |
| 04:36.06 | JeffM | amazing |
| 04:36.13 | AAA_awright | LIBCURL.dll could not be found |
| 04:36.24 | JeffM | when you debug it? |
| 04:36.26 | forrestv2 | how much of pybzflag is finished? |
| 04:36.29 | AAA_awright | I compiled it before, though, which is odd... |
| 04:36.42 | JeffM | AAA_awright, your just not running the one in the right dir |
| 04:36.51 | AAA_awright | I am changing it now |
| 04:36.58 | JeffM | forrestv2, it's old, and long dead, it's from before 2.0 |
| 04:37.09 | JeffM | AAA_awright, set the working dir to the root of the projcet too |
| 04:37.13 | JeffM | where we copied the exe |
| 04:37.26 | JeffM | and make sure the curl dll is there |
| 04:37.30 | forrestv2 | JeffM: really? i've seen svn updates to it. |
| 04:37.38 | JeffM | you have? |
| 04:38.13 | forrestv2 | idk |
| 04:38.14 | JeffM | the last change I see to it was 2 years ago |
| 04:38.34 | JeffM | how can you not know, yet make the statement that you've seen svn updates to it? |
| 04:38.55 | AAA_awright | It opens, I see the tabs, then it crashes |
| 04:39.08 | JeffM | AAA_awright, cool, welcome to development code |
| 04:39.48 | JeffM | forrestv2, it had a couple small changes to make it work on python 2.4 2 years ago, but was stoped being activly developed like 4 years ago |
| 04:40.03 | forrestv2 | JeffM: why? |
| 04:40.20 | JeffM | forrestv2, the authors didn't want to do it anymore and went off to other things |
| 04:41.05 | AAA_awright | First-chance exception at 0x1001ac9c in bzflag.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0x00000000. |
| 04:41.19 | JeffM | AAA_awright, good for it |
| 04:41.34 | JeffM | if you want to get any real usefull informaiton, debug it |
| 04:41.39 | AAA_awright | BZFlag says cannot load texture several times before crashing |
| 04:41.41 | JeffM | all that telsl you is where your ram is |
| 04:41.47 | JeffM | AAA_awright, what exe are you running? |
| 04:42.00 | JeffM | the one in the debug dir? or the one in the root level? |
| 04:42.05 | AAA_awright | debug |
| 04:42.09 | JeffM | that is wrong |
| 04:42.17 | JeffM | change the debug command to run the one in the root |
| 04:42.19 | AAA_awright | root level? |
| 04:42.22 | JeffM | yes |
| 04:42.29 | JeffM | the top level dir you checked out |
| 04:42.35 | JeffM | the one with /src and /MSVC |
| 04:42.52 | JeffM | the build copies the exe there |
| 04:42.56 | JeffM | cus thats where /data is |
| 04:43.06 | JeffM | and BZ wants /data to be at the same place as the exe |
| 04:43.08 | AAA_awright | It outputs two biniaries? |
| 04:43.18 | JeffM | yes, it makes a copy |
| 04:43.23 | JeffM | for ease of debuging |
| 04:44.01 | JeffM | we can't change the target that it runs by default in the projcet, cus that is stored localy on your system ( it may contain local paths ). so it's not part of the project that is checked in |
| 04:44.14 | AAA_awright | uh |
| 04:44.40 | JeffM | right click on the bzflag project |
| 04:44.43 | JeffM | hit properties |
| 04:44.45 | JeffM | hit debug |
| 04:44.56 | JeffM | change the debug command to your local root dir/bzflag.exe |
| 04:45.02 | JeffM | change the working dir to your local root dir |
| 04:45.04 | JeffM | run |
| 04:46.39 | AAA_awright | uh |
| 04:46.53 | AAA_awright | Dumb that down for me? |
| 04:47.09 | JeffM | perhaps building on windows is not your thing |
| 04:47.21 | JeffM | you see the bzflag project |
| 04:47.24 | *** part/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=Macrosof@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) |
| 04:47.28 | JeffM | in the solution explorer? |
| 04:47.37 | JeffM | says bzflag |
| 04:47.39 | AAA_awright | Yah |
| 04:47.39 | JeffM | right click it |
| 04:47.44 | JeffM | hit properties |
| 04:47.59 | AAA_awright | Debugging -> Command |
| 04:48.03 | JeffM | there ya go |
| 04:48.07 | AAA_awright | And enter what? |
| 04:48.26 | JeffM | hit browse on it and pick the bzflag.exe that was copied to the root dir |
| 04:48.45 | AAA_awright | root of what? |
| 04:48.51 | JeffM | the dir you checked out from SVN |
| 04:49.00 | JeffM | the dir that has \data in it |
| 04:49.03 | AAA_awright | Oh, okay |
| 04:49.33 | JeffM | then copy that path,with out the bzflag.exe part, and paste it into where it says "working dir" |
| 04:49.38 | JeffM | working directory |
| 04:52.47 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=Constitu@71-223-45-30.phnx.qwest.net) |
| 04:54.38 | AAA_awright | Aahh! It's all different! |
| 04:56.47 | JeffM | it's not going to be like gentoo |
| 04:57.01 | JeffM | if you want your build system to be like gentoo, then use gentoo |
| 04:57.32 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r) |
| 04:57.32 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
| 05:02.19 | Constitution | I'm working on a group management system (coordinating much of the work with blast007's and his redo of the list server)... is trunk/db/bzgrpmgr a good place for it? |
| 05:03.11 | JeffM | sure |
| 05:03.17 | brlcad | as good asany |
| 05:03.21 | Constitution | k |
| 05:03.28 | JeffM | did you see the wiki page on ideas for one? |
| 05:03.38 | Constitution | yeah |
| 05:03.42 | JeffM | cool |
| 05:04.34 | JeffM | then they can just do that stuff themselves :) |
| 05:04.43 | Constitution | right |
| 05:05.31 | Constitution | as far as the actual system goes... is it desireable for group "owners" to allow other group "moderators" or "admins" to administer the group? |
| 05:05.53 | Constitution | something that AFAIK isn't possible with the current phpBB system |
| 05:05.53 | JeffM | yeah it is |
| 05:06.02 | JeffM | that's why the wiki mentioned a name.admin group |
| 05:06.07 | JeffM | that would also have admin abilitys |
| 05:06.17 | Winny | and let us delete groups? |
| 05:06.18 | Constitution | ah |
| 05:06.21 | JeffM | basicly when you registered a name it'd automaticly make the .admin group |
| 05:06.33 | JeffM | Winny, sub groups, probalby up to the owner |
| 05:06.46 | JeffM | I'd think the owner of the name could set the permsions on what name.admin could do |
| 05:07.56 | JeffM | if that' system was implemented, then it'd take care of prety much anything I can think they'd want to do |
| 05:08.07 | JeffM | Constitution, and yeah, the point of it woudl be to remove it form phpbb |
| 05:08.17 | Constitution | okay |
| 05:08.24 | JeffM | then the only phpbb groups would be ones that are used for well. phpbb :) |
| 05:08.30 | Constitution | hehe |
| 05:08.36 | AAA_awright | JeffM: It still days it can't load the textures |
| 05:08.42 | Constitution | until the new global auth system is in place, we'd still have to use phpBB for the user list, right? |
| 05:08.43 | AAA_awright | Even though it loads now |
| 05:09.04 | JeffM | AAA_awright, does it draw anything |
| 05:09.12 | JeffM | Constitution, sure, but it'd be transperant to the users |
| 05:09.13 | AAA_awright | draw everything? |
| 05:09.16 | Constitution | right |
| 05:09.26 | JeffM | AAA_awright, what shows up on the screen? |
| 05:09.46 | AAA_awright | black stuff, the text, and an arrow |
| 05:09.50 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03macsforme * r15448 10/trunk/db/bzgrpmgr/ (11 files in 2 dirs): |
| 05:09.50 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: Initial import of group management system. |
| 05:09.50 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: Basic file layout and structure. |
| 05:09.50 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: Data layer is starting to take shape, and has a little functionality. |
| 05:09.55 | AAA_awright | no, just black, no stuff |
| 05:10.10 | JeffM | and you have a data dir with all the textures? |
| 05:11.12 | AAA_awright | Yah |
| 05:11.50 | JeffM | what happens if you jsut double click the bzflag.exe thats in the root dir? |
| 05:12.24 | AAA_awright | It works |
| 05:12.26 | AAA_awright | ! |
| 05:12.30 | AAA_awright | It loads correctly |
| 05:12.57 | JeffM | then you didn't do what I told you to do |
| 05:13.09 | AAA_awright | But I did! |
| 05:13.29 | JeffM | did you set the working directory line? |
| 05:13.39 | AAA_awright | Local Windows Debugger -> Command: "C:\Dev-Cpp\projects\bzflag\bzflag.exe" |
| 05:13.57 | AAA_awright | No working directory |
| 05:13.59 | AAA_awright | Ah |
| 05:14.04 | JeffM | see, you didn't do what I said to do |
| 05:14.10 | JeffM | not suprising tho |
| 05:14.18 | AAA_awright | I thought I did... |
| 05:14.33 | JeffM | just like the SDK ;) |
| 05:15.48 | AAA_awright | The list server menu crashes |
| 05:16.21 | AAA_awright | Invalid operator< |
| 05:16.24 | JeffM | cool |
| 05:17.03 | AAA_awright | include\algorithm line 2620 |
| 05:17.18 | AAA_awright | I assume the file is truncated |
| 05:17.58 | JeffM | I'm sure you assume much |
| 05:18.03 | JeffM | that's part of the SDK |
| 05:18.14 | brlcad | likely the < operator in src/game/ServerItem.* used to sort the server list |
| 05:18.33 | brlcad | recently changed |
| 05:19.19 | JeffM | isn't dev code fun :) |
| 05:19.30 | AAA_awright | *cheesy smile* |
| 05:19.51 | AAA_awright | Connecting to a server brings up an error too, |
| 05:20.15 | AAA_awright | Same one. |
| 05:22.11 | AAA_awright | Awesome |
| 05:22.17 | AAA_awright | Commits in git are fast |
| 05:22.25 | AAA_awright | Dang. |
| 05:22.58 | *** join/#bzflag delusional_ (n=delusion@pool-151-201-121-48.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 05:27.45 | AAA_awright | That's awesomely fast |
| 05:31.28 | JeffM | if it's only commiting to your local repository, then it should be ;) |
| 05:32.49 | AAA_awright | Sorry. Do you know how to fix the error (of course)? |
| 05:33.00 | JeffM | by developing |
| 05:34.14 | JeffM | how much do you know about C++? |
| 05:34.23 | AAA_awright | Enough that I can read it |
| 05:34.40 | JeffM | then step thru and see what the error is |
| 05:34.46 | AAA_awright | And code minor projects. I have created exactly one working plugin for bzfs. |
| 05:35.06 | AAA_awright | Debugging, now, is a different story. Especially in windows. |
| 05:35.07 | a_meteorite | ... which was based on my work, no? :) |
| 05:35.20 | JeffM | select the line you want to break on, hit G9 |
| 05:35.26 | JeffM | sorry F9 |
| 05:35.31 | JeffM | then hit F5 to debug |
| 05:35.33 | AAA_awright | I did the mysql plugin. It may have been your work, a_meteorite. |
| 05:35.38 | JeffM | it'll break when it hits that line |
| 05:35.46 | AAA_awright | No, I did /a/ mysql plugin when yours wasn't working. |
| 05:35.49 | AAA_awright | JeffM: Okay |
| 05:35.51 | JeffM | then use F10 and F11 to step over or into the code |
| 05:36.39 | AAA_awright | Would it be a good idea to decrease the opacity of the radar and console in the help menu? |
| 05:36.51 | AAA_awright | It seems to get in the way. |
| 05:37.06 | JeffM | it would be a good idea to just redo the entire menu system ;) |
| 05:38.09 | AAA_awright | I kinda like the fact the mouse /joystick is only a driving device |
| 05:38.42 | AAA_awright | Though the scroll wheel or analog axis could be used as a selector, maybe? It needs some thought. |
| 05:39.12 | JeffM | they shoudl be given the choice |
| 05:39.31 | JeffM | if the mouse isn't used to pick menus then there should not be a cursor |
| 05:39.42 | AAA_awright | I don't like configuration options. I would avoid adding them whenever possible. |
| 05:39.52 | JeffM | people should have choice |
| 05:39.58 | AAA_awright | That's just me, I don't care outside of me. |
| 05:40.04 | JeffM | I can tell |
| 05:41.27 | Constitution | hmm, SDLDisplay.cxx:98: error: invalid conversion from 'const char*' to 'char*' |
| 05:41.47 | JeffM | what function takes a char*? |
| 05:41.51 | Constitution | putenv() |
| 05:41.56 | JeffM | cast it |
| 05:41.59 | Constitution | k |
| 05:42.13 | JeffM | if it's not ours, you have to cast |
| 05:42.27 | JeffM | if it's ours make it take a const char* if it dosn't modify it |
| 05:42.35 | JeffM | if it modifies it, have the caller make a copy |
| 05:44.38 | Constitution | it was created on the line immediately previous, and doesn't appear to be used again |
| 05:44.51 | Constitution | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:45.39 | JeffM | yeah, sdl stuff |
| 05:45.42 | JeffM | casting is fine |
| 05:45.46 | Constitution | ok |
| 05:46.43 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03macsforme * r15449 10/trunk/bzflag/src/platform/SDLDisplay.cxx: Fix const invalid conversion error. |
| 05:46.46 | AAA_awright | playing.cxx some line |
| 05:46.56 | AAA_awright | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:47.14 | AAA_awright | Can that get put on one line? Someone browsing through will think that is always a break point. |
| 05:47.25 | JeffM | it's valid |
| 05:47.41 | AAA_awright | It's valid, but not skim-able |
| 05:47.52 | JeffM | welcome to the bzflag source code |
| 05:48.05 | JeffM | per the dev info, it's allowed |
| 05:48.10 | JeffM | and somewhat encouraged |
| 05:48.17 | AAA_awright | ... |
| 05:48.43 | AAA_awright | I had to take three whole seconds to see why the debugger skipped a break statement. |
| 05:48.54 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 05:49.19 | JeffM | OH MY GOD! |
| 05:50.55 | *** join/#bzflag JeffMFishBone (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
| 05:54.55 | AAA_awright | ... |
| 05:55.02 | AAA_awright | It has a nice debug system |
| 05:55.20 | AAA_awright | I say that only because you don't need a debug server like with PHP |
| 05:55.25 | AAA_awright | Which is a pain to setup |
| 05:55.53 | JeffMFishBone | well umm yeah... it's a real app, in a real compiled language |
| 05:56.02 | JeffMFishBone | not a scripting language |
| 05:59.09 | AAA_awright | ? |
| 05:59.36 | AAA_awright | It dies on one of the many calls to doNetworkStuff() |
| 06:01.14 | blast007 | heh, is there really a doNetworkStuff function? |
| 06:01.21 | *** join/#bzflag Legolas_ (n=Legolas_@adsl-68-127-123-181.dsl.frsn02.pacbell.net) |
| 06:01.43 | Legolas_ | Hello again |
| 06:01.50 | Legolas_ | Is jude awake now? |
| 06:02.43 | AAA_awright | doNetworkStuff(); Called in playing.cxx line 6814 |
| 06:03.09 | JeffMFishBone | AAA_awright, step in F11 |
| 06:03.12 | JeffMFishBone | find out where |
| 06:03.30 | AAA_awright | It only crashes in one of the 100 calls to it |
| 06:03.40 | AAA_awright | And all the calls look the same from the outside |
| 06:03.50 | JeffMFishBone | that is why you step inside ;) |
| 06:03.57 | JeffMFishBone | or just wait for another windows dev to get to it |
| 06:04.30 | Winny | Legolas_: he's not here |
| 06:07.05 | *** join/#bzflag PeterBz (n=PeterBz@cpc2-derb1-0-0-cust324.lei3.cable.ntl.com) |
| 06:07.59 | PeterBz | on BZWB, when I click to add an object like an ark or sphere or meshbox, I cant see it |
| 06:08.45 | blast007 | PeterBz: from my build? |
| 06:08.51 | AAA_awright | Somewhere in curl_multi_perform |
| 06:09.03 | PeterBz | The one just released on the forums |
| 06:09.15 | blast007 | PeterBz: right, my build |
| 06:09.23 | blast007 | PeterBz: what OS? |
| 06:09.28 | PeterBz | windows |
| 06:09.31 | PeterBz | xp |
| 06:09.36 | blast007 | hmm, k |
| 06:10.16 | Winny | yeah, the objects are hard/impossible to select |
| 06:10.58 | blast007 | Winny: no, he can't SEE them |
| 06:11.22 | Winny | I know, I'm just adding to the fun |
| 06:11.30 | blast007 | PeterBz: I'll have to test it on a machine that doesn't have Visual Studio installed |
| 06:11.43 | blast007 | it's working for me |
| 06:12.05 | PeterBz | oh, okay, |
| 06:12.35 | blast007 | I'm copying it to another machine quick |
| 06:12.44 | PeterBz | k, thanks |
| 06:12.58 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 06:13.09 | AAA_awright | JeffMFishBone: It happens on a call to curl_multi_perform, it won't descend in any farther then the call to that. |
| 06:13.18 | JeffMFishBone | cool |
| 06:13.20 | JeffMFishBone | curl bug |
| 06:13.27 | JeffMFishBone | those are fun |
| 06:15.24 | blast007 | PeterBz: do you see the grid? |
| 06:15.46 | PeterBz | yeah |
| 06:15.59 | blast007 | I just tried it on another computer, with an Intel 810, and I could create a box |
| 06:16.01 | blast007 | and see it |
| 06:16.23 | blast007 | did the grid have a grass texture? |
| 06:16.34 | blast007 | right drag zooms in |
| 06:16.41 | PeterBz | Yeah, boxes are fine, but I cant see any shperes meshboxes meshpry's ect, yeah, I can see the grass |
| 06:16.44 | blast007 | well, right drag down zooms in |
| 06:16.46 | blast007 | ah |
| 06:16.52 | blast007 | not everything probably works |
| 06:17.02 | blast007 | like I said in the forum post |
| 06:17.11 | blast007 | it's not even to a beta yet |
| 06:17.16 | JeffMFishBone | the entire UI needs to be gone over |
| 06:17.25 | JeffMFishBone | and IMHO, redone |
| 06:17.44 | JeffMFishBone | I'll probably start pokeing at it when I can get a build of OSG |
| 06:18.52 | blast007 | the build process is easy |
| 06:19.40 | blast007 | JeffMFishBone: you're still on 7.1, right? |
| 06:20.06 | JeffMFishBone | yes |
| 06:20.13 | PeterBz | will jude- be releasing a version on the 31st still? |
| 06:20.17 | JeffMFishBone | it wasn unable to compile for me |
| 06:20.25 | JeffMFishBone | PeterBz, no |
| 06:20.33 | PeterBz | how come? |
| 06:20.38 | JeffMFishBone | what makes you think the 31st will see it complete |
| 06:20.49 | JeffMFishBone | all he did for SoC is start it |
| 06:20.58 | JeffMFishBone | his paid part is over |
| 06:21.02 | PeterBz | I didnt say complete, I just read it on the blog |
| 06:21.04 | JeffMFishBone | what you see there is what we have |
| 06:21.20 | JeffMFishBone | I'm sure he'll work on it more |
| 06:21.35 | JeffMFishBone | but I don't think it'll be complete for a while |
| 06:21.39 | JeffMFishBone | couple months at least |
| 06:22.14 | PeterBz | oh, I thought it was a she for some reason, |
| 06:23.25 | JeffMFishBone | jude neslon is a girls name? |
| 06:23.46 | PeterBz | Nelson? Oh, |
| 06:25.56 | JeffMFishBone | yeah, jude nelson, that's his name |
| 06:26.09 | PeterBz | can you name objects? |
| 06:26.31 | blast007 | box, pyramid, teleporter, uh, uh, I now this one! |
| 06:26.40 | PeterBz | :) |
| 06:27.08 | PeterBz | *Is it possible to name objects |
| 06:27.13 | PeterBz | ? |
| 06:28.33 | JeffMFishBone | look and see |
| 06:28.40 | JeffMFishBone | we are not experts on the software |
| 06:28.50 | JeffMFishBone | it's still under development |
| 06:28.56 | JeffMFishBone | and he did most of the work |
| 06:29.06 | JeffMFishBone | now that SoC is over we are looking at it all |
| 06:31.35 | PeterBz | Looking at scene options, It says that "ctrl+o" is to configure an object, but when I do ctrl+o a it gives me the option to open a world |
| 06:33.31 | JeffMFishBone | welcome to development code |
| 06:36.57 | blast007 | PeterBz: did you not read my post? |
| 06:37.25 | blast007 | "Before you download, keep in mind that this is not a finished product. Many features are not yet implemented or finalized. This is not even a beta version." |
| 06:38.03 | JeffMFishBone | pffft....reading is for girls. |
| 06:38.23 | JeffMFishBone | older kids |
| 06:39.07 | PeterBz | Yeah, I read it, I just thought that if your gona be developing it, it would be important for you to know the problems |
| 06:46.17 | brlcad | consider them all pretty well known until it's no longer alpha, at least until they actually ask for testing feedback |
| 07:31.36 | Constitution | should there be a standard case for group names in the group managment system? seems like the some of the groups are in the org.group case, some are in Org.Group, and some are ORG.GROUP |
| 07:36.43 | *** join/#bzflag Deepa (n=deepa@wrongplanet/deepa) |
| 07:38.45 | L4m3r | Constitution: I don't think it matters at this point... there's a new system in the pipeline |
| 07:40.28 | Constitution | L4m3r: yeah, my question was in reference to how the "new system" should/will operate :) |
| 07:40.54 | L4m3r | dunno if it's been decided. I don't think it will matter either way. |
| 07:50.12 | brlcad | I'd say it should be case insensitive, that's a petty issue to have to care about |
| 07:50.32 | Constitution | yeah, ok |
| 08:12.40 | *** join/#bzflag winwinwin (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/davidhkmrpowers) |
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| 08:43.43 | Epyon | hmm what is the result of -1 % 4 in C++? |
| 08:51.15 | L4m3r | 3? :\ |
| 08:51.18 | L4m3r | or maybe -1 |
| 08:52.02 | L4m3r | Google says 3 |
| 08:53.25 | Constitution | 2 significant bits? :) |
| 08:54.00 | Epyon | L4m3r, my question is wether this is standard between C++ compilers, and what's the result :/ |
| 08:54.35 | Epyon | I can't find any documentation on using % with a negative 1st arg :/ |
| 08:54.42 | L4m3r | I think it'd depend on how well-defined the operator is |
| 08:57.13 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03macsforme * r15450 10/trunk/db/bzgrpmgr/ (bzgrpmgr.php bzgrpmgr.sql config.php data_phpbb2.inc): |
| 08:57.13 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: Slight changes to MySQL table structure. Table 'groups' now has an |
| 08:57.13 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 'ownergroup' field, which specifies the groupid of the admin group for |
| 08:57.13 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: that organization. This number serves as the organization identifier, |
| 08:57.13 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: and will be the same for all 'sister' groups. |
| 08:57.16 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: Also added getUsername() function and other small improvements to data layer. |
| 08:59.52 | Constitution | I'll be working off of http://fairserve.bzflag.org/bzgrpmgr/bzgrpmgr.php as I go along, if anyone's interested. :) |
| 09:00.24 | Epyon | Constitution, you've got commit access? :D |
| 09:00.46 | Constitution | yep :D |
| 09:00.51 | Epyon | yay :D |
| 09:03.27 | Constitution | which reminds me, JeffM wanted me to yell at you for something... ;) |
| 09:04.16 | Constitution | ah yes, for this: http://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bzflag/trunk/bzwgen/src/bzwgen.cxx?r1=15397&r2=15398 |
| 09:07.05 | Epyon | Why? |
| 09:07.34 | Constitution | why what? |
| 09:07.43 | Epyon | Who did that? |
| 09:07.49 | Constitution | um... you :) |
| 09:07.53 | Epyon | O.o |
| 09:08.07 | Epyon | No idea how that happened :/ |
| 09:08.45 | Constitution | hehe... np :) |
| 09:26.21 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r) |
| 09:26.21 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
| 09:37.07 | Constitution | Epyon: face definitions with 'nan' are far more frequent now |
| 09:38.36 | Epyon | Constitution, I know... |
| 09:38.58 | Constitution | ok |
| 09:52.50 | *** join/#bzflag wanda (n=coredump@p5499B9E5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:55.03 | Manu | 3579 |
| 10:00.31 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-057-148.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 10:00.58 | Epyon | 4587 |
| 10:16.26 | Manu | Epyon: don't spam :p |
| 10:17.36 | CBG | 6549 |
| 10:18.12 | Manu | hi CBG :) I knew you were going to type ;) |
| 10:19.28 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15451 10/trunk/bzwgen/inc/Face.h: Baaadly needed Face helper funcs |
| 10:19.47 | Epyon | 4378? |
| 10:20.18 | Manu | CBG/nan=Epyon |
| 10:20.36 | CBG | Manu: :P |
| 10:20.54 | CBG | me = Epyon ? o.O |
| 10:21.06 | Constitution | division by zero :P |
| 10:21.09 | Manu | no, the nan part of you |
| 10:21.17 | Manu | nan != 0 CBG |
| 10:21.23 | Manu | nan != 0 Constitution |
| 10:21.31 | Constitution | oh |
| 10:21.43 | CBG | so me != Epyon ? |
| 10:21.57 | Manu | lol, no |
| 10:22.03 | Manu | do you know what nan is? |
| 10:22.35 | Constitution | ~nan |
| 10:22.36 | ibot | methinks nan is how long it takes to compile noatun |
| 10:23.05 | CBG | I do now. |
| 10:23.19 | *** join/#bzflag KTL (n=KTL@kotnet-149.kulnet.kuleuven.be) |
| 10:23.30 | Manu | hey KTL |
| 10:23.45 | KTL | buenos dias Manu :) |
| 10:23.50 | Manu | :) |
| 10:23.57 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15452 10/trunk/bzwgen/inc/globals.h: Helper funcs and fixes. |
| 10:24.04 | Manu | salut KTL |
| 10:25.05 | Manu | lol |
| 10:25.16 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15453 10/trunk/bzwgen/inc/MultiFace.h: Duuuh, finally fixed that annyoing MultiFace bug that happened when segments overlapped -- in one place an index of a ID was passed instead of an ID :/ |
| 10:25.50 | Epyon | Constitution, can you try compiling? |
| 10:25.53 | Constitution | k |
| 10:26.06 | Epyon | There should be no more #IND or #INF's |
| 10:26.50 | Constitution | Epyon: looks good |
| 10:27.05 | Epyon | No MultiFaces yet though :/ |
| 10:29.31 | Epyon | But I knew that this is going to be the most challenging part :P |
| 11:19.21 | daxxar | Hay |
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| 12:24.42 | daxxar | KTL: Haha |
| 12:24.52 | KTL | :) |
| 12:25.49 | KTL | i won 10 times in a row against in sc against people i know, one alone against 2, now i don't dare to play anymore since they anticipate my strats |
| 12:34.40 | daxxar | :p |
| 12:40.51 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15454 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (inc/Face.h inc/MultiFace.h inc/globals.h rules/start.set): Bugs, bugs, bugs... oh, and bugs too! (not to confuse with a certain bunny. Yes, I'm loosing my sanity here. |
| 12:55.40 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15455 10/trunk/bzwgen/inc/MultiFace.h: Bugs Bunny. |
| 13:10.02 | *** join/#bzflag forrestv (n=forrestv@c-75-74-170-187.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 13:31.55 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15456 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (inc/MultiFace.h inc/globals.h rules/start.set): Ran out of float precision o.O |
| 13:36.25 | Epyon | Hmm, maybe I should switch to double? |
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| 14:09.34 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15457 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (inc/Mesh.h rules/start.set src/RuleSet.cxx): vbase added to Mesh object - stores the vectors that created the mesh base (needed for multiface composition) |
| 14:15.53 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15458 10/trunk/bzwgen/src/Operation.cxx: AddFace now creates base face from Mesh base, and not from the face that calls it. |
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| 14:28.01 | *** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-139-120-26.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:29.26 | Epyon | VICTORY! xD |
| 14:35.49 | Epyon | Tonight there will be an advancement in the visuals of bzwgen :) |
| 14:37.10 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15459 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (inc/MultiFace.h rules/start.set): Hunted down the last bug... for now :) |
| 14:41.16 | *** join/#bzflag AHeartAttack (n=bzhearta@ool-44c75115.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 14:47.35 | *** join/#bzflag forrestv (n=forrestv@c-75-74-170-187.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 14:54.34 | Winny | hm... what does this mean?: File transfer terminated with error from libcurl 28 : Operation too slow. Less than 1024 bytes/sec transfered the last 10 seconds |
| 14:56.25 | Winny | Randomly occuring when I try to start a server... |
| 15:00.03 | donny_baker | poor network connectivity? |
| 15:00.18 | donny_baker | this from your home or your server? |
| 15:00.19 | Winny | for example: 5001, 5002, 5003, 6000 started fine, but 5000, and 6001 got that error |
| 15:00.26 | Winny | donny_baker: server |
| 15:01.32 | donny_baker | port blocking by your host... is it repeatable only on those ports? or ranndom ports, that start the next time you try? |
| 15:02.25 | Winny | only on those ports, always happens |
| 15:03.04 | donny_baker | i would guess ISP then... see if they are blocking those at the router and see if they can be opened for you, maybe |
| 15:03.29 | Winny | hm, ok |
| 15:03.36 | donny_baker | or something is already on those ports, but I would expect a different error |
| 15:03.43 | donny_baker | if that was the case |
| 15:04.04 | donny_baker | that would be a good test |
| 15:11.57 | Winny | gah |
| 15:12.00 | Winny | they block 7000 too |
| 15:12.51 | A_Heart_Attack | ask them which ports are blocked |
| 15:13.27 | Winny | A_Heart_Attack: golly, your so smart :p |
| 15:16.57 | *** join/#bzflag winwinwin (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/davidhkmrpowers) |
| 15:29.26 | *** join/#bzflag poolio_ (n=poolio@c-24-131-202-244.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 15:49.37 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
| 15:56.28 | *** join/#bzflag poolio_ (n=poolio@c-24-131-202-244.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 16:01.08 | blast007 | JeffM: you get a build of OSG? |
| 16:01.28 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=TD-Linux@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 16:05.17 | *** join/#bzflag AWOSLappy (n=awilcox@unaffiliated/awosdev) |
| 16:07.38 | JeffM | I'm downloading it to give it another try |
| 16:07.49 | JeffM | but last time there build tool would fail for me |
| 16:08.29 | blast007 | well, I'm uploading my build right now |
| 16:08.36 | blast007 | 85% done |
| 16:08.54 | blast007 | it contains the includes/ dir, and the release and debug libs and plugins |
| 16:09.10 | JeffM | ahh cool, I'l just use that |
| 16:09.24 | JeffM | and then we can host that and a copy of the soruces for people to use |
| 16:09.31 | JeffM | there build system is a pain in the ass |
| 16:09.33 | blast007 | you can open .rar files? |
| 16:09.45 | JeffM | ya |
| 16:09.49 | blast007 | ok |
| 16:09.57 | blast007 | I really didn't find their build system that bad |
| 16:10.04 | blast007 | it was actually very cool |
| 16:10.11 | tannerld | heh |
| 16:10.48 | blast007 | it gave my control over the generation of the solution and project files that you would normally only have with a ./configure script |
| 16:11.00 | JeffM | yeah that part failed for me |
| 16:11.09 | blast007 | CMake? |
| 16:11.10 | JeffM | I think cus I have VC6 and 7.1 installed |
| 16:11.12 | JeffM | yeah |
| 16:11.13 | blast007 | ah |
| 16:11.35 | blast007 | do you have VC stuff in your PATH env var? |
| 16:12.25 | JeffM | ya |
| 16:13.09 | blast007 | http://static.bzexcess.com/OSG2.0.rar |
| 16:13.18 | AWOSLappy | OoooooOOOOOooooo |
| 16:13.21 | AWOSLappy | OSG! |
| 16:13.30 | Winny | clam down there, AWOSLappy |
| 16:13.54 | blast007 | yeah, you came in just after I said about OSG ;) |
| 16:14.06 | AWOSLappy | Winny: I have had no sleep, and do not have this Sunday off. and being excited about a Windows binary of OSG is fine >_> |
| 16:14.22 | AWOSLappy | (well, I've had 5 hours, but that's not enough...) |
| 16:14.33 | JeffM | now why the hell did it work this time... |
| 16:14.38 | JeffM | OHHHHHH. I removed VC6 |
| 16:14.38 | blast007 | heh |
| 16:14.50 | blast007 | :) |
| 16:14.57 | JeffM | lets see if it buildds |
| 16:15.13 | JeffM | or maybe I didn't restart afer installing cmake and it didn't pikc up the environ vars |
| 16:16.42 | blast007 | I didn't restart either |
| 16:17.18 | AWOSLappy | blast007: there's no README ;) do I just slap the include/lib dirs into the VC IDE and build? |
| 16:17.34 | blast007 | yeah |
| 16:17.39 | AWOSLappy | mmkay. |
| 16:17.43 | blast007 | well, no |
| 16:17.52 | blast007 | in the lib, there is Release and Debug |
| 16:17.57 | blast007 | you have to point to one of those |
| 16:18.00 | AWOSLappy | right. I figured that. |
| 16:18.22 | JeffM | or add them to the searched dirs |
| 16:18.36 | blast007 | AWOSLappy: and that's for VC7.1, not VC8 |
| 16:20.25 | AWOSLappy | blast007: I do not have 8, I have 7.1. But thank you for the heads up. |
| 16:20.35 | blast007 | ok |
| 16:20.46 | AWOSLappy | blast007: are the .vcproj's okay to use? |
| 16:21.10 | blast007 | hmm? those are in the package? |
| 16:21.47 | AWOSLappy | blast007: for bzwb. judecn said they may not be updated |
| 16:21.52 | blast007 | oh |
| 16:22.12 | AWOSLappy | well that IS the only reason you would have OSG on #bzflag, right? |
| 16:22.16 | AWOSLappy | :) |
| 16:22.31 | blast007 | right, thought you meant in the OSG2.0.rar file |
| 16:22.46 | blast007 | and yes, you can use the VC7.1 project |
| 16:22.57 | blast007 | you do have to uncomment one line in defines.h |
| 16:23.11 | blast007 | the one about vsprintf or whatever that function is |
| 16:23.13 | AWOSLappy | okay. |
| 16:23.27 | blast007 | includes/define.h |
| 16:23.32 | AWOSLappy | https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzworkbench ? |
| 16:23.39 | blast007 | yup |
| 16:25.38 | *** join/#bzflag cosmol (n=dave@71.86.121.200) |
| 16:29.39 | AWOSLappy | um...remind me what FL/Fl.H is? |
| 16:30.04 | *** join/#bzflag AHeartAttack (n=bzhearta@ool-44c75115.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 16:30.12 | blast007 | AWOSLappy: FLTK |
| 16:30.25 | AWOSLappy | thank you blast007 |
| 16:30.28 | blast007 | np |
| 16:30.39 | *** join/#bzflag tuxd00d (n=tuxinato@128.187.170.212) |
| 16:31.22 | AWOSLappy | do I want 1.1.7 or 2.x? |
| 16:32.02 | blast007 | 1.1.7 |
| 16:32.14 | AWOSLappy | okay, and do I want source? |
| 16:32.23 | blast007 | do they have binaries? |
| 16:32.49 | AWOSLappy | it doesn't look like it. |
| 16:32.50 | blast007 | fltk-1.1.7-source.zip |
| 16:32.55 | blast007 | then build it |
| 16:33.05 | AWOSLappy | okay. I need the zip? |
| 16:33.09 | blast007 | they have a vcnet/ directory, iirc |
| 16:33.21 | blast007 | don't probably *need* it, but it probably has windows line endings |
| 16:33.27 | AWOSLappy | true |
| 16:34.21 | *** join/#bzflag tuxd00d (n=tuxinato@128.187.170.212) |
| 16:44.30 | AWOSLappy | okay, blast007, it's done compiling. now I just add the root fltk folder as an include dir? |
| 16:44.51 | blast007 | yup, and some lib dir too |
| 16:45.22 | AWOSLappy | already got the lib done |
| 16:45.33 | blast007 | k |
| 16:46.07 | AWOSLappy | It's making.....a LOT of warnings... |
| 16:47.11 | blast007 | in FLTK? |
| 16:48.39 | AWOSLappy | FL\Fl_Widget.H |
| 16:49.15 | blast007 | yup |
| 16:49.15 | blast007 | I had those too |
| 16:49.15 | AWOSLappy | Okay. |
| 16:49.15 | blast007 | 80 to 100 or so |
| 16:49.15 | JeffM | yeah FLTK is not 64 bit happy |
| 16:49.19 | blast007 | JeffM: it's not 32-bit happy either |
| 16:49.26 | AWOSLappy | :P |
| 16:49.29 | JeffM | splain? |
| 16:49.42 | blast007 | I'm not on 64-bit |
| 16:49.53 | JeffM | the warnings are for 64 bit migration |
| 16:50.02 | JeffM | hence "truncation of point to a type of smaller size" |
| 16:50.03 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: http://rafb.net/p/PelIAu93.html |
| 16:50.05 | blast007 | oh |
| 16:50.15 | JeffM | when going from a void* to a long |
| 16:50.21 | AWOSLappy | ohh..... |
| 16:50.30 | JeffM | it's assuming the code will be run on a 64, where a pointer is not a long |
| 16:50.43 | JeffM | you can turn that off |
| 16:50.45 | AWOSLappy | ~lart 64-bit |
| 16:50.45 | ibot | takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking 64-bit's head off |
| 16:50.51 | JeffM | by turning off 64 bit warnings |
| 16:51.09 | JeffM | "detect 64 bit portability issues" |
| 16:51.19 | JeffM | in the C++ general tab |
| 16:51.49 | AWOSLappy | not again >_> |
| 16:51.59 | AWOSLappy | I just went from 800M free to 700K free |
| 16:52.10 | blast007 | lol |
| 16:56.55 | JeffM | does pythonian use there own maps? or just other maps that people post? |
| 16:59.47 | Winny | JeffM: kinda somewhere in between, they find a map that they like, and change it enough not to credit the authour |
| 17:02.43 | JeffM | that woudl be against the license for some maps |
| 17:04.27 | Epyon | IT WORKS :D |
| 17:04.41 | AWOSLappy | Epyon: What does? |
| 17:04.56 | Epyon | Multishape boolean addition :D |
| 17:05.07 | AWOSLappy | sounds...over my head :P |
| 17:05.19 | AWOSLappy | but rather neat. |
| 17:05.41 | AWOSLappy | dangit >_< |
| 17:05.43 | AWOSLappy | fatal error C1085: Cannot write compiler generated file: 'Debug/BZWParser.obj': No space left on device |
| 17:05.48 | tannerld | Epyon: no, no, no - its "EUREKA!" |
| 17:06.11 | JeffM | AWOSLappy, dude, spend 60$ and get a usb external |
| 17:06.33 | *** join/#bzflag lepoulpe303 (n=LePoulpe@about/essy/MobileTarget/LePoulpe303) |
| 17:07.08 | Winny | AWOSLappy: sounds like you need a new computer, period :p |
| 17:07.21 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: I'd rather spend 50$ and get an internal, and I know, I am getting a whole new computer, remember? |
| 17:07.34 | AWOSLappy | Winny: see above XD |
| 17:07.38 | Winny | xD |
| 17:08.05 | AWOSLappy | Epyon: lol! |
| 17:08.07 | JeffM | you won't get a biger drive for your laptop for that much |
| 17:08.11 | JeffM | externals are good |
| 17:08.15 | JeffM | you can use them on any machine |
| 17:08.19 | JeffM | nice backup device |
| 17:08.30 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: it would be 50$ for an 80G. this is a 30G and I've made it work for 4 years |
| 17:09.14 | AWOSLappy | 80G is a nice, ~125% increase |
| 17:09.14 | JeffM | good lord man |
| 17:09.14 | JeffM | then do it |
| 17:09.19 | tannerld | Epyon: did you fix that seg fault thing of mine or am I still buggy? |
| 17:10.34 | JeffM | oh wow |
| 17:10.50 | JeffM | all the includes in BZWB have /include in front of them.......... |
| 17:10.58 | blast007 | yeah :/ |
| 17:11.22 | Epyon | tannerld, when did you last update? |
| 17:11.23 | JeffM | blast007, did you have to modify textUtils to get it to build vnsprinf? |
| 17:11.45 | blast007 | initially I put the define in there |
| 17:11.54 | blast007 | now it's in include/defines.h |
| 17:12.00 | blast007 | you have to uncomment it |
| 17:12.06 | Epyon | tannerld, try updating now. |
| 17:12.27 | JeffM | ok, I wrap it in a #def for VC |
| 17:13.27 | tannerld | Epyon: At revision 15459. |
| 17:13.35 | AWOSLappy | there. I have 946M free after removing stuff I don't need anymore. |
| 17:13.44 | JeffM | what's he use for a build system on nix? |
| 17:14.14 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: well, nix people like building their stuff manually (myself included, I use Gentoo and pkgsrc/BSD). |
| 17:15.32 | JeffM | AWOSLappy, that does not answer my question in any way shape or form |
| 17:15.39 | JeffM | please try again |
| 17:15.49 | Epyon | tannerld, and it segfaults? |
| 17:15.53 | blast007 | JeffM: it uses CMake on *nix as well, afaik |
| 17:16.04 | JeffM | BZWB does? |
| 17:16.17 | tannerld | Epyon: yep w/ bad floor cor. |
| 17:16.36 | blast007 | JeffM: yeah |
| 17:16.36 | Epyon | tannerld, segfault or bad coords? |
| 17:16.45 | tannerld | Epyon: both |
| 17:16.48 | blast007 | there's no Makefile or ./configure scripts |
| 17:17.01 | JeffM | there is the .cdtbuild |
| 17:17.08 | JeffM | I think he used eclipse |
| 17:17.15 | Epyon | tannerld, at what moment? |
| 17:17.19 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: He did, he told me. |
| 17:17.33 | Epyon | tannerld, try make clean and rebuild the whole thing |
| 17:18.01 | blast007 | ah, guess there is a makefile |
| 17:18.04 | blast007 | under Debug/ |
| 17:18.11 | tannerld | Epyon: that fixed it |
| 17:18.16 | Epyon | tannerld :) |
| 17:18.22 | JeffM | blast007, what did you do to make it be able to find the lib files for for debug and release? just use a single dir and move them manualy as needed? |
| 17:18.29 | JeffM | I'm thinking of doing it with an environ var |
| 17:18.39 | JeffM | $(OSG_LIB)/debug/ etc.. |
| 17:18.40 | Epyon | tannerld, always do make clean when updating bzwgen. |
| 17:19.06 | blast007 | JeffM: he didn't do anything for that |
| 17:19.13 | JeffM | I mean you, to make yours build |
| 17:19.17 | Epyon | tannerld, wanna take a peek at things to come? :P |
| 17:19.22 | blast007 | oh |
| 17:19.24 | tannerld | Epyon: sure |
| 17:19.29 | JeffM | I see that the OSG installer out in an OSG_ROOT environ |
| 17:19.30 | JeffM | I can use that |
| 17:19.33 | blast007 | JeffM: I just modified my path when I switched |
| 17:19.37 | JeffM | ok |
| 17:19.45 | JeffM | I'll do an eviron so it'll be automatic |
| 17:20.11 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15460 10/trunk/bzwgen/rules/start.set: Testing MultiShapes (uncomment test rule to test |
| 17:20.11 | tannerld | yay |
| 17:20.11 | tannerld | 5915728 vertices, 34219 texcoords and 5318943 faces generated. |
| 17:20.15 | blast007 | technically I think you can include both |
| 17:20.17 | blast007 | let me look |
| 17:20.42 | blast007 | yeah, you could |
| 17:20.49 | Epyon | tannerld, update, and edit start.set, and uncomment the spawn(test_run) rule. |
| 17:20.57 | blast007 | it adds a 'd' just before the extension on the debug files |
| 17:21.01 | Epyon | tannerld, be warned, there's a LOT of debug output xP |
| 17:21.20 | Epyon | tannerld, WHAT WAS THAT O.o |
| 17:21.37 | tannerld | Epyon: a -s 10000 -g 200 bzwgen map :) |
| 17:21.47 | Epyon | tannerld, and what was the size of the bzw? :P |
| 17:22.04 | tannerld | 431.7MB |
| 17:22.08 | blast007 | lol |
| 17:22.12 | AWOSLappy | rofl |
| 17:22.30 | Epyon | Don't try that with multishapes rule on -- it would segfault <- I've ran into precision problems :? |
| 17:22.49 | Epyon | BTW, JeffM, maybe I should switch from floats to doubles? |
| 17:22.57 | AWOSLappy | tannerld: okay now I *KNOW* my graphics card would choke on that :P |
| 17:23.03 | AWOSLappy | you'd need an 8800GTX to run that :P |
| 17:23.06 | JeffM | blast007, yeah but I'd like it to build from the standard OSG build dir structure |
| 17:23.21 | JeffM | Epyon, you think you have resoution issues? |
| 17:23.23 | blast007 | right, that's what I mean |
| 17:23.24 | JeffM | bzflag is all floats |
| 17:23.36 | Epyon | AWOSLappy, I'd bet a cookie that it would not even run on bzfs :P |
| 17:23.45 | blast007 | they have Release and Debug folders |
| 17:23.59 | blast007 | anything in debug has a 'd' to show it is debug |
| 17:24.03 | JeffM | yeah |
| 17:24.13 | JeffM | I'm making it use the debug and d for debug |
| 17:24.24 | Epyon | JeffM, it's in multishapes -> I need exact data on whether to lines are coincidental, and with lines longer than 400 it get's messy :/ |
| 17:24.25 | JeffM | and the release and non d for release automaticly |
| 17:24.32 | JeffM | Epyon, whatever flaots your boat |
| 17:24.38 | JeffM | pun intended |
| 17:24.43 | Epyon | xP |
| 17:24.43 | blast007 | JeffM: it already does use the right lib names, afaik |
| 17:24.54 | JeffM | yeah |
| 17:24.55 | tannerld | Epyon: oooooo |
| 17:24.56 | JeffM | just dosn't know the dir |
| 17:25.07 | JeffM | so you have to set both dirs in VC |
| 17:25.09 | Epyon | tannerld, segfault? |
| 17:25.10 | JeffM | and that is icky |
| 17:25.13 | JeffM | I'll do environ var |
| 17:25.16 | tannerld | Epyon: no - pretty :) |
| 17:25.19 | JeffM | then nothing has to be set in VC :) |
| 17:25.25 | Epyon | tannerld, that's just the beginning :P |
| 17:25.43 | tannerld | Epyon: you need to make one of those towers "leanable" so we can have a leaning tower of Epyon |
| 17:25.49 | Epyon | tannerld, now that I have shape boolean operations things will start to get interesting ^_^ |
| 17:26.16 | Epyon | What's MDG? o.O |
| 17:26.22 | Epyon | ~MDG |
| 17:26.34 | tannerld | Map Development Group - http://mybzflag.net/ |
| 17:27.24 | Epyon | tannerld, you can give a link to my blog this time :P |
| 17:27.50 | tannerld | Epyon: ah - sure - remind me what it is? |
| 17:28.08 | Epyon | Where's ibot when you need hin :? |
| 17:28.13 | Epyon | ! bzwgen |
| 17:28.17 | Epyon | ~bzwgen |
| 17:28.18 | ibot | bzwgen is, like, a random procedural world generator created by Epyon as a GSoC project, or http://bzflag.chaosforge.org |
| 17:28.43 | Epyon | Gotta update it with multishapes today &+& |
| 17:30.46 | JeffM | what is the name of the png plug-in? |
| 17:31.01 | tannerld | Epyon: ta'da http://mybzflag.net/?p=110 |
| 17:31.27 | JeffM | hmm blast007 do you have libpng installed? |
| 17:31.39 | JeffM | it didn't buld the png plugin for me it seems |
| 17:32.00 | *** join/#bzflag Pommes (n=Pommes@about/essy/frenchy/Pommes) |
| 17:32.55 | Epyon | tannerld, thanks :D |
| 17:33.18 | Epyon | tannerld, BTW, it would be nice to mention jude- in the BZWB post :P |
| 17:34.22 | donny_baker | ~Epyon++ |
| 17:34.33 | donny_baker | terrific screen shots of a cool map |
| 17:34.51 | tannerld | *ahem* |
| 17:34.52 | tannerld | :P |
| 17:35.09 | donny_baker | for the map generator :P |
| 17:35.18 | tannerld | Epyon: you say it segfaults with -s 10000 -g 200? |
| 17:35.22 | tannerld | :P |
| 17:35.35 | donny_baker | ~tannerld++ |
| 17:35.39 | donny_baker | for sharing :P |
| 17:36.01 | tannerld | yay |
| 17:36.51 | Epyon | xD |
| 17:37.45 | blast007 | JeffM: no, I don't have libpng |
| 17:38.10 | JeffM | it won't build the png plugin vcproj for me |
| 17:38.36 | blast007 | hmm |
| 17:38.40 | blast007 | any error? |
| 17:38.45 | JeffM | no |
| 17:38.51 | JeffM | cmake just dosn't build it |
| 17:38.55 | blast007 | oh |
| 17:38.57 | blast007 | :/ |
| 17:39.44 | JeffM | check in your cmake, does it have anything that says PNG DIRECTORY |
| 17:40.09 | blast007 | where would I look? |
| 17:40.18 | *** join/#bzflag ahs3 (n=alvin@adsl-065-005-193-158.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 17:40.24 | JeffM | wehn you open it, it lists all the environ vars |
| 17:40.38 | JeffM | like BUILD_OSG_3D_PLUGINS |
| 17:40.40 | JeffM | in that list |
| 17:41.34 | blast007 | PNG_LIBRARY_DEBUG C:/Libraries/OpenSceneGraph-2.0/3rdParty/lib/libpngD.lib |
| 17:42.00 | blast007 | that's all I see regarding PNG |
| 17:42.21 | JeffM | see I don't have that |
| 17:42.28 | JeffM | do you have "advanced values" checked? |
| 17:42.32 | blast007 | nope |
| 17:42.59 | blast007 | oh, did you get the 3rd party libs package? |
| 17:43.20 | JeffM | I guess not |
| 17:44.05 | Epyon | BTW, tannerld, can I submit a bzwgen map as it will stand the 16th september for the Eye-Candy FMC 07 award? xP |
| 17:44.37 | tannerld | Epyon: lol - don't see why not :P |
| 17:44.47 | blast007 | oh yeah, and I was getting confused... cmake is not needed for bzwb on *nix |
| 17:44.49 | blast007 | OSG needs it |
| 17:45.08 | JeffM | but I don't see a makefile for BZWB |
| 17:45.18 | JeffM | so I guess the eclipse project does it all |
| 17:45.20 | blast007 | it's in Debug/ |
| 17:45.25 | blast007 | 'makefile' |
| 17:45.44 | JeffM | WTF |
| 17:48.17 | AWOSLappy | alright, who made my build out of date :P |
| 17:50.08 | JeffM | damn does Cmake suck, it keep changing back to the OSG on my desktop, when I tell it to use the one on another drive |
| 17:50.21 | AWOSLappy | woot, bzwb builds and runs on Win32! |
| 17:50.26 | AWOSLappy | ~blast007++ |
| 17:53.33 | AWOSLappy | http://i16.tinypic.com/687pje8.png |
| 17:55.51 | tannerld | AWOSLappy: but thats linux? |
| 17:55.58 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r15461 10/trunk/bzworkbench/ (56 files in 10 dirs): |
| 17:55.58 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: start the cleanup for BZWB. |
| 17:55.58 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: remove include from all the local #include directives, the dir should be part of the build systems include paths. |
| 17:55.58 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: make the VC71 build system use the OSG_ROOT environ variable they install to find and copy all libs and dlls needed to run. |
| 17:55.59 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: make the VC71 build system work more like the others, copying executables to the correct paths, etc.. |
| 17:56.15 | AWOSLappy | tannerld: nope. that's Windows XP Professional |
| 17:56.21 | Epyon | Just a funkt skin :P |
| 17:56.27 | Epyon | funky* :P |
| 17:56.42 | Epyon | My windows is also notoriously taken for linux xP |
| 17:56.51 | tannerld | AWOSLappy: right...and my "mac os x" screenshots are mac os x :P |
| 17:57.11 | AWOSLappy | hehe |
| 17:57.34 | AWOSLappy | Epyon: :) |
| 17:57.57 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r15462 10/trunk/bzworkbench/MSVC/VC7.1/BZWorkbench.vcproj: have the release build copy the OSG DLLs as well |
| 17:57.59 | AWOSLappy | It's Plastik for Windows XP. even does icon sets :D |
| 17:58.06 | Epyon | Watch closely. There's IE running. Would you imagine IE on KDE? xPPP. OMG. Wait, WHY DO YOU USE IE, ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? |
| 17:58.07 | AWOSLappy | tannerld: http://i17.tinypic.com/52z6aec.png |
| 17:58.16 | AWOSLappy | Epyon: hehe |
| 17:58.50 | tannerld | AWOSLappy: /me wonders if that is convincing enough to place on the mdg blog :P |
| 17:58.57 | AWOSLappy | tannerld: hehehehe |
| 17:59.21 | AWOSLappy | Epyon: I clicked on an article on MSN Messenger Today or whatever, it loaded in IE, it's evil but I wanted to read the article |
| 17:59.32 | AWOSLappy | apparently a naked guy attacked a police officer while in court :/ |
| 18:00.04 | Epyon | IE, OE, WM and WMP are all firewalled on my PC :P |
| 18:00.13 | AWOSLappy | hehe |
| 18:00.14 | tannerld | AWOSLappy: http://mybzflag.net/?p=108 |
| 18:00.30 | Epyon | lol! |
| 18:00.34 | AWOSLappy | :) |
| 18:00.43 | AWOSLappy | wait, my reg info is screwed, can you put a different pic? |
| 18:00.47 | tannerld | sure |
| 18:01.21 | Epyon | AWOSLappy, it's obvious that that's not registered windows :P |
| 18:01.44 | AWOSLappy | tannerld: http://i19.tinypic.com/4pxh6qp.png |
| 18:01.57 | AWOSLappy | Epyon: it's registered and activated, not sure exactly how that reg info got screwed. |
| 18:02.18 | AWOSLappy | You want my SxS directory to prove it? |
| 18:02.26 | Epyon | BTW, what are you still doing on SP 1 o.O |
| 18:02.34 | AWOSLappy | Epyon: SP2 + this lappy == no worky. |
| 18:02.55 | Epyon | I have unregistered windows, just because MSDNAA doesn't have english windows keys -_- |
| 18:03.18 | AWOSLappy | this is MSDN. real MSDN, but MSDN nevertheless. |
| 18:04.04 | Epyon | What reason would I have to buy a legal 3ds MAX if the windows running it would be illegal o.O |
| 18:04.19 | AWOSLappy | Epyon: I don't even understand why MSDNAA wouldn't have English keys |
| 18:04.30 | JeffM | please do not discuss pirated software here. |
| 18:04.31 | AWOSLappy | are you doing it from Subscriber Downloads or whatever they call it now? |
| 18:04.46 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: I'm trying to help him register it. |
| 18:04.54 | AWOSLappy | Epyon: we aren't welcome, go to #AWOS-OffTopic |
| 18:04.56 | JeffM | AWOSLappy, then private message ;) |
| 18:04.59 | Epyon | JeffM, technically we're discussing legal software :P |
| 18:05.04 | JeffM | Epyon, same thing |
| 18:05.07 | JeffM | not here |
| 18:05.12 | JeffM | we resepect software copyright |
| 18:05.16 | Epyon | kk |
| 18:05.18 | AWOSLappy | Epyon: really. #AWOS-OffTopic |
| 18:06.12 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r15463 10/trunk/bzworkbench/ (20 files in 4 dirs): fixing more include dir wackyness |
| 18:06.17 | AWOSLappy | tannerld: no spamz0ring! |
| 18:06.57 | JeffM | what did he do here that would be considered spam? |
| 18:07.26 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: he /joined, typed "COLORS" in purple, then /part |
| 18:07.59 | blast007 | AWOSLappy: and what does it have to do with this channel? |
| 18:08.00 | ruskie | no such thing in my lastlog |
| 18:08.01 | JeffM | AWOSLappy, and that has any bearing on this channel how? |
| 18:08.33 | AWOSLappy | blast007: I was simply telling him not to come to my channel just to spam, since this is channel he's on? |
| 18:08.36 | Epyon | Don't meddle with JeffM, AWOSLappy, cause he's subtle and quick to anger. |
| 18:08.45 | blast007 | AWOSLappy: what's what /msg is for |
| 18:11.11 | blast007 | AWOSLappy: from that screenshot of BZWB you pasted, it seems you're missing either the PNG plugin, or the 'share' directory |
| 18:11.22 | blast007 | the 'share' directory needs to be in the same location as the binary |
| 18:11.40 | AWOSLappy | blast007: I put the binary in the root of the bzwb folder, as jude- said. |
| 18:11.45 | blast007 | k |
| 18:11.53 | blast007 | the ground should have grass though |
| 18:11.55 | blast007 | it shouldn't be white |
| 18:12.12 | JeffM | blast007, it's not drawing the grass for me |
| 18:12.15 | JeffM | and I Have both of those |
| 18:12.18 | JeffM | I'm looking into it |
| 18:12.20 | blast007 | hmm |
| 18:12.22 | blast007 | it works for me |
| 18:12.25 | blast007 | tried on two machines |
| 18:12.26 | JeffM | yeah I know |
| 18:12.33 | AWOSLappy | Warning: Could not find plugin to read objects from file "share/world/std_ground.png" |
| 18:12.33 | JeffM | release or debug? |
| 18:12.36 | blast007 | JeffM: does it work from my build? |
| 18:12.37 | blast007 | both |
| 18:12.37 | AWOSLappy | debug |
| 18:12.46 | JeffM | yeah it does for your build |
| 18:12.50 | JeffM | that's why I'm checking it out |
| 18:13.05 | JeffM | it can load the icons from the share dir |
| 18:13.07 | JeffM | it's wierd |
| 18:13.08 | blast007 | AWOSLappy: make sure you have the .dll's from the plugin directory of OSG too |
| 18:13.23 | JeffM | blast007, the VC71 project copies them now for you ;) |
| 18:13.30 | blast007 | k |
| 18:13.31 | blast007 | saw |
| 18:13.32 | JeffM | maybe I missed one |
| 18:13.44 | JeffM | I have to sweep then i'll look into it more |
| 18:13.49 | AWOSLappy | blast007: it wouldn't even run, I put the folder in my user-specific PATH |
| 18:13.49 | blast007 | ok |
| 18:16.19 | JeffM | AWOSLappy, tou may want to update your code, the new stuff will copy what you need |
| 18:16.36 | AWOSLappy | okay |
| 18:18.21 | tannerld | Epyon: if (0) $a-$b else $a+$b |
| 18:18.40 | Epyon | O.o? |
| 18:19.08 | *** join/#bzflag bz52 (n=536926f0@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:20.10 | blast007 | hello bz52 |
| 18:21.09 | blast007 | goodbye bz52 |
| 18:22.04 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: yay, thank you for disabling 64-bit warnings :D |
| 18:22.06 | Epyon | Okay, I found a way ^_^ |
| 18:24.22 | JeffM | only for debug |
| 18:25.16 | blast007 | JeffM: did OSG_ROOT already exist for you? |
| 18:27.23 | JeffM | yeah |
| 18:27.28 | JeffM | but I had done there binary installer |
| 18:27.34 | JeffM | and I think it made it |
| 18:46.25 | *** join/#bzflag forrestv (n=forrestv@75.74.170.187) |
| 18:46.56 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15464 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (inc/MultiFace.h inc/Operation.h src/Operation.cxx): OperationDetachFace implemented, MultiFace::detachFace awaiting implementation. |
| 18:47.56 | AWOSLappy | Project : error PRJ0019: A tool returned an error code from "Performing Post-Build Event..." |
| 18:47.57 | AWOSLappy | Project : warning PRJ0018 : The following environment variables were not found: |
| 18:47.59 | AWOSLappy | $(OSG_ROOT) |
| 18:48.15 | JeffM | you need to add the OSG_ROOT environ variable |
| 18:48.28 | JeffM | right click on your my computer icon |
| 18:48.31 | AWOSLappy | ^ JeffM...not sure how to fix that. I have OSG in the include/lib dir options |
| 18:48.32 | JeffM | hit properties |
| 18:48.35 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: oh that |
| 18:48.48 | AWOSLappy | user or system? |
| 18:48.49 | JeffM | go to advacned |
| 18:48.51 | JeffM | system |
| 18:48.58 | JeffM | then quit VC and relauch it |
| 18:49.11 | AWOSLappy | point it to C:\dev-libs\OSG2.0\ ? or C:\dev-libs\OSG2.0\libs ? |
| 18:49.16 | JeffM | I set it up so that it uses there system evnicon |
| 18:49.17 | JeffM | the root |
| 18:49.21 | JeffM | hence the word ROOT |
| 18:49.22 | AWOSLappy | okay. |
| 18:49.25 | JeffM | in the variable |
| 18:50.36 | AWOSLappy | restarting VC, then reloading the project says "BZWorkbench - up-to-date." |
| 18:52.10 | blast007 | BZWorkbench error PRJ0019: A tool returned an error code from "Performing Post-Build Event..." |
| 18:52.18 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15465 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (MSVC/VC8/bzwgen.vcproj inc/MultiFace.h src/MultiFace.cxx): MultiFace.h was getting waaaay to big for a .h file... |
| 18:52.37 | AWOSLappy | blast007: just discussed. read up :) |
| 18:52.44 | blast007 | heh |
| 18:53.19 | AWOSLappy | that means...my Celeron 1.6 is faster than blast007's computer \o/ |
| 18:53.20 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15466 10/trunk/bzwgen/Makefile: Makefile update. |
| 18:53.37 | blast007 | AWOSLappy: nope, it means that I was busy browsing the web for the last 30 minutes |
| 18:53.46 | AWOSLappy | blast007: hehehe, okay :) |
| 18:54.07 | tannerld | Epyon: heh |
| 18:54.28 | Epyon | tannerld ? |
| 18:55.17 | tannerld | Epyon: waay too big for a .h :P |
| 18:55.46 | Epyon | tannerld. I have that Javaish tendency to put everything into the h :/ |
| 18:56.18 | tannerld | s/tendency/bad habit/ |
| 18:56.24 | Epyon | BTW, does anyone know if there's a key in MSVCEE for method jumping? (between declaration and implementation) |
| 18:57.34 | AWOSLappy | Epyon: right-click the method, and click "Go To Definition" |
| 18:59.03 | Epyon | Nah, that's equally slow... isn't there a hotkey? :/ |
| 19:00.00 | AWOSLappy | RTM? |
| 19:00.58 | JeffM | or bind one yourelf |
| 19:01.19 | *** join/#bzflag forrestv (n=forrestv@c-75-74-170-187.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 19:02.51 | AWOSLappy | Epyon: Tools->Customise->Commands tab->Keyboard...->Show commands containing: Edit.GoTo |
| 19:03.21 | *** join/#bzflag Legoguy (n=Legoguy@adsl-71-143-225-234.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:10.25 | gsnedders | ~bzsvn |
| 19:11.04 | ibot | i guess bzsvn is http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN and svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag bzflag |
| 19:11.06 | blast007 | gsnedders: http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN |
| 19:11.12 | blast007 | damn, I almost made it ;D |
| 19:11.23 | gsnedders | quick bots :) |
| 19:12.38 | tannerld | lol |
| 19:15.37 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (n=wizart@lvps87-230-8-217.dedicated.hosteurope.de) |
| 19:20.04 | *** join/#bzflag KTL (n=KTL@kotnet-149.kulnet.kuleuven.be) |
| 19:22.14 | *** join/#bzflag tupone (n=atupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 19:22.14 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v tupone] by ChanServ |
| 19:25.40 | *** join/#bzflag Quol (n=ian@modemcable177.75-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 19:26.01 | A_Heart_Attack | Quol, do you have the -public option in the conf? |
| 19:26.14 | Quol | ya... |
| 19:26.28 | A_Heart_Attack | eep, wrong channel :P |
| 19:26.34 | Quol | :) |
| 19:31.55 | *** join/#bzflag Flash (n=jwmelto@unaffiliated/flash) |
| 19:40.13 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 19:50.06 | *** join/#bzflag Winny (n=KyleVE@CPE0016b6de59f3-CM000f9fac8236.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 19:52.09 | *** join/#bzflag forrestv (n=forrestv@adsl-10-168-237.mia.bellsouth.net) |
| 20:03.52 | Epyon | getFaceWithVertexExceptTheOnePassedAsTheArgument seems a bad method name :/ |
| 20:05.04 | tannerld | bit long |
| 20:06.05 | Epyon | Originally it was meant to be getFaceWithVertexExceptTheOnePassedAsTheArgumentAndReturnItsIndexInThatFaceToo, but decided it was a bit too long :/ |
| 20:06.46 | tannerld | thats an improvement |
| 20:10.04 | Epyon | *sigh* I'll go with getOtherFaceWithVertex |
| 20:16.58 | *** join/#bzflag VM1234 (n=VM@adsl-065-013-159-245.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 20:17.57 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15467 10/trunk/bzwgen/inc/Face.h: Various access/mod methods to the face class. |
| 20:19.15 | *** join/#bzflag ViciousMuffin (n=VM@adsl-065-013-159-245.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 20:19.46 | *** part/#bzflag ViciousMuffin (n=VM@adsl-065-013-159-245.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 20:19.48 | a_meteorite | getOtherFaceWithVertex() ? ... |
| 20:19.50 | *** join/#bzflag ViciousM (n=VM@adsl-065-013-159-245.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 20:20.30 | a_meteorite | Epyon: At least Jeff isn't naming your functions. They would be liable to get misspelled. :P |
| 20:22.02 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-060-136.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 20:23.04 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15468 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (inc/MultiFace.h src/MultiFace.cxx): pickRemovalIndex and getOtherFaceWithVertex helper methods implemented, MultiMesh methods split into private (helper) and public (access) methods, detachFace is WIP. |
| 20:33.02 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=troublem@c-98-197-19-35.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 20:52.12 | *** join/#bzflag wanda (n=coredump@p5499B9E5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:58.25 | AWOSLappy | geoFaceWithVertexExceptTheOnePassedAsTheArgumentAndReturnItsIndexInThatFaceToo?! |
| 20:58.27 | AWOSLappy | er |
| 20:58.32 | AWOSLappy | getFaceWithVertexExceptTheOnePassedAsTheArgumentAndReturnItsIndexInThatFaceToo?! |
| 21:01.59 | Epyon | yeah xP |
| 21:11.26 | *** join/#bzflag ViciousM (n=VM@adsl-065-013-159-245.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:30.01 | spldart | >AWOSLappy Did you get the tracking number and eta I pm'd yah yesterday? |
| 21:30.10 | AWOSLappy | pm :O |
| 21:30.19 | AWOSLappy | you pm'd my shell? |
| 21:30.24 | spldart | irc pm |
| 21:30.30 | spldart | hehe |
| 21:35.36 | *** join/#bzflag krilli (n=krilli@85-218-20-74.dclient.lsne.ch) |
| 21:56.05 | *** join/#bzflag poolio (n=poolio@128.237.231.197) |
| 21:57.01 | *** join/#bzflag AWOSLappy (n=awilcox@unaffiliated/awosdev) |
| 22:04.39 | *** join/#bzflag Epyon (i=IceChat7@host99.180.219.81.magma-net.pl) |
| 22:08.14 | awilcox | Welcome back, Epyon. |
| 22:11.27 | Epyon | DTRemenak, *ping* |
| 22:11.30 | Epyon | awilcox :P |
| 22:12.13 | awilcox | Epyon: is there a way to disable skyscrapers? |
| 22:12.20 | awilcox | skyscrapers make my gfx card scrape. |
| 22:15.33 | Epyon | Why? o.O. They are the least detaild building type O.o |
| 22:16.28 | awilcox | they have a lot of polys |
| 22:16.57 | Epyon | awilcox, BTW try running with -l 1 |
| 22:17.12 | Epyon | (-detail 1) |
| 22:17.15 | awilcox | well...I'm not really hosting it... |
| 22:17.50 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=TD-Linux@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 22:18.12 | brlcad | *whew*, only three pages to go |
| 22:18.18 | blast007 | :) |
| 22:18.19 | awilcox | Epyon: client-side, I took _everything_ down to nothing or lowest, still got 4 fps |
| 22:18.23 | awilcox | brlcad: for what? |
| 22:18.37 | brlcad | GSoC report |
| 22:18.41 | awilcox | ahh. |
| 22:19.08 | brlcad | go for it |
| 22:19.11 | awilcox | Iz Ph34r Teh Ops. |
| 22:19.18 | brlcad | unless it in bad taste |
| 22:19.43 | brlcad | ah, yeah funny |
| 22:19.51 | brlcad | speaking of which |
| 22:20.03 | awilcox | :) |
| 22:21.26 | brlcad | mm.. 21MB |
| 22:21.44 | brlcad | (lots of imagery) |
| 22:21.50 | awilcox | :o |
| 22:22.01 | brlcad | too slow |
| 22:22.09 | awilcox | 80G/s |
| 22:22.14 | awilcox | Faster than most modern hard disks. |
| 22:22.17 | awilcox | Too slow?! |
| 22:22.58 | brlcad | that's not too bad, though I actually get about that on my archive volume |
| 22:23.14 | brlcad | it's raided |
| 22:23.18 | awilcox | neat :D |
| 22:25.20 | awilcox | Epyon: Why don't you have it? |
| 22:25.38 | Epyon | Motherboard died 7 days before the end of gsoc -_- |
| 22:26.27 | blast007 | Epyon: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m3ad3c84a |
| 22:27.11 | blast007 | that was just a 'bzwgen', no params |
| 22:28.18 | Epyon | did you change anything in the set files? |
| 22:29.17 | blast007 | no |
| 22:29.18 | *** join/#bzflag forrestv (n=forrestv@adsl-10-168-237.mia.bellsouth.net) |
| 22:29.25 | blast007 | let me try a fresh checkout |
| 22:29.29 | blast007 | this was an svn up |
| 22:31.29 | blast007 | there we go, that works |
| 22:31.34 | Epyon | blast007, did you make clean? |
| 22:31.40 | blast007 | nope |
| 22:31.52 | blast007 | works now though |
| 22:32.10 | Epyon | I don't know which time I say that but *always* make clean after checkout :P |
| 22:32.22 | Epyon | after svn up too :P |
| 22:32.24 | daxxar | reconf-bzflag && remake-bzflag |
| 22:32.36 | daxxar | <3 my ~/bin/ |
| 22:32.57 | daxxar | Good night, lads. ;-) |
| 22:33.10 | daxxar | I'm working on writing a SimpleBot in Python |
| 22:33.45 | daxxar | Which means I tweak the API so that it has the useful data needed, learn Python so I can do it, and re-visit simple geometry to make everything smooth. ;-) |
| 22:34.02 | daxxar | Good night! |
| 22:36.31 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-060-136.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 22:41.07 | TD-Linux | I just do make -B often |
| 22:41.18 | TD-Linux | the makefile seems to behave oddly lately |
| 22:54.47 | CBG | ~logs |
| 22:54.48 | ibot | [logs] http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/, or stats http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/bzflag.html.gz |
| 22:58.53 | brlcad | cya daxxar |
| 23:03.45 | CBG | hey, brlcad would it matter where I built OSG on my system? |
| 23:04.38 | TD-Linux | if it's like any other program in existence, build it in its own subdirectory, anywhere. |
| 23:04.41 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15469 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (inc/Face.h inc/MultiFace.h src/MultiFace.cxx): Implemented MultiMesh::removeFace aka boolean shape substraction. This should work... theoretically. In practice, now I will probably rediscover the meaning of the word 'debugging'... for the next 4 hours or so... |
| 23:04.41 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r15470 10/trunk/db/bzfls2/bzfls.php: Reorganize some areas, move validation of input back to each specific action's area, add some more invalid input checks |
| 23:04.52 | TD-Linux | Epyon, you've found the fix! |
| 23:05.15 | Epyon | that was a "last breath" report xP |
| 23:05.29 | TD-Linux | ooo does it work? |
| 23:05.47 | Epyon | in 4 hours maybe :P |
| 23:05.48 | CBG | TD-Linux: so, doesn't matter if it's in ~/lol/random crap/haha ? |
| 23:05.52 | TD-Linux | once it works use it to carve out hunks of buildings due to fallen meteors |
| 23:06.05 | TD-Linux | CBG, I build everything in subdirectories of my home directory |
| 23:06.19 | TD-Linux | as long as it's in it's own little directory, it should be fine |
| 23:06.24 | CBG | right, that's what I'm doing |
| 23:06.26 | CBG | ok, thanks |
| 23:06.30 | Epyon | TD-Linux, lol, it's not mesh boolean ops, it's shape boolean ops :P |
| 23:07.12 | TD-Linux | aww I thought that was a little too quick |
| 23:07.38 | Epyon | Debugging mesh boolean ops would take me at least a week xP |
| 23:08.56 | TD-Linux | how does one /set a custom color in bzflag? html style? |
| 23:09.03 | TD-Linux | # prefix doesn't seem to work |
| 23:13.44 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15471 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (5 files in 2 dirs): detachface(id) [ branchops ] added to the language. |
| 23:14.13 | CBG | slightly off-topic but no answer in #openscenegraph... Just downloaded OSG via SVN and I get this at the end of the process: http://rafb.net/p/JsilbR26.html - Is this a problem..? |
| 23:14.31 | blast007 | hmm, I think we killed the bot |
| 23:14.49 | CBG | indeed you did, blast007... [12:04am] ยป CIA-23 dies |
| 23:14.50 | forrestv | why does it do /me dies sometimes? |
| 23:14.51 | blast007 | my commits are hanging.. |
| 23:15.06 | blast007 | forrestv: it's when someone does /me kills CIA-xx |
| 23:15.49 | blast007 | TD-Linux: it quit :P |
| 23:16.00 | TD-Linux | now I'm lonely :( |
| 23:16.55 | Epyon | blast007, how did you get that tracedump, and how can I get one on puny MSVCEE? :P |
| 23:17.07 | blast007 | Epyon: that was linux :P |
| 23:20.38 | Epyon | I know, but bzwgen now crashes at deinitialization, and I need to trace that :P |
| 23:20.44 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 23:20.44 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 23:23.04 | blast007 | I don't use EE |
| 23:23.19 | brlcad | CBG: no, not really |
| 23:23.42 | brlcad | just matters that you know where the libs are at, and perhaps the headers |
| 23:24.01 | CBG | brlcad: bleh. now you lost me... |
| 23:24.14 | CBG | if you're busy I can wait for help in the osg channel |
| 23:24.18 | brlcad | i was looking for you? :) |
| 23:24.30 | CBG | heh |
| 23:24.50 | brlcad | i'm always busy, just a matter of getting my attention :) |
| 23:24.53 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-23 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 23:25.03 | brlcad | you're building a program that links to OSG |
| 23:25.10 | CBG | well, if you're not TOO busy, some help would be nice |
| 23:25.13 | brlcad | to do that, you have two things you have to worry about |
| 23:25.14 | brlcad | the headers |
| 23:25.20 | brlcad | and the libraries |
| 23:25.25 | CBG | specifically with "just matters that you know where the libs are at, and perhaps the headers" |
| 23:25.45 | brlcad | headers are using during compilation, libraries are using at that final "linking" stage of the build when it goes to make the binary |
| 23:25.59 | CBG | wait, brlcad, are you still referring to my question about where to build osg? |
| 23:26.12 | brlcad | so yesterday, you got all the way through the build .. and it was failing to find the libraries |
| 23:26.16 | brlcad | yes |
| 23:26.21 | brlcad | what are you referring two? |
| 23:26.33 | CBG | ah, I got a bigger problem now, I posted a rafb.net link above |
| 23:27.02 | brlcad | well, my guess is that .. as the message says.. |
| 23:27.05 | brlcad | it moved |
| 23:27.19 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r15473 10/trunk/db/bzfls2/bzfls.php: The REMOVE action now works properly when disableIPCheck is enabled |
| 23:27.27 | brlcad | might not want to build from their svn too, just grab a source tarball |
| 23:27.40 | CBG | so, yeah... I'm scr*w*d until someone from OSG can help? |
| 23:27.49 | CBG | ah... could try that I guess |
| 23:28.53 | brlcad | you're not screwed, it says it moved |
| 23:28.57 | brlcad | you'd have to find where it moved to |
| 23:29.02 | brlcad | that's the openthreads component |
| 23:29.10 | brlcad | still.. just don't build from svn |
| 23:29.29 | CBG | yeah, got the source zip |
| 23:29.52 | CBG | easier anyway... dunno why I bothered to copy paste the svn command into terminal when could just click the download link :| |
| 23:30.28 | blast007 | the zip? |
| 23:30.54 | CBG | yes... |
| 23:31.04 | CBG | the zip file |
| 23:31.11 | blast007 | hmm, hope that's not with Windows line endings |
| 23:31.20 | blast007 | might be "fun" |
| 23:31.23 | CBG | gah |
| 23:33.38 | CBG | to build bzwb, I need osg... to build osg I need "cmake"...... |
| 23:33.48 | CBG | I bet I need something else to get cmake too... lol |
| 23:35.05 | brlcad | which is part why I'm adament about the convenience of integrating your required dependencies as part of your build, so others don't have to do the dependency chain game |
| 23:35.18 | brlcad | it's nice when it just works |
| 23:35.43 | CBG | (tm) |
| 23:37.30 | CBG | hmm, cmake came as a nice installer, so that was sweet. now building osg |
| 23:38.41 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r) |
| 23:38.41 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
| 23:38.41 | TD-Linux | package managers work nicely too |
| 23:40.53 | brlcad | yeah, when they work |
| 23:41.22 | TD-Linux | they always do for me :) |
| 23:41.48 | TD-Linux | but I've only ever used rpm and dpkg |
| 23:41.59 | CBG | I hate when things seem to work great... but screw other stuff up. |
| 23:41.59 | brlcad | always is a nice bold statement, usually just a matter of time |
| 23:42.07 | CBG | like that safari 3 beta. wow.... :| |
| 23:42.15 | brlcad | i've seen rpm fail, portage fail, ports fail, fink fail, apt fail, ... |
| 23:42.20 | TD-Linux | yum broke on a package once for me |
| 23:42.25 | TD-Linux | but it was an error in the package code |
| 23:42.29 | TD-Linux | syntax error, even :P |
| 23:42.37 | Tupone | portage fails? |
| 23:42.43 | CBG | osg 25% done. |
| 23:42.51 | brlcad | yeah, i've seen portage fail several times over the years |
| 23:42.55 | TD-Linux | ooh it even tells you progress, unlike make? |
| 23:43.09 | blast007 | CBG: cmake? |
| 23:43.10 | Tupone | eheh, where? on linux? |
| 23:43.18 | brlcad | where you'd have to manually go in and tweak/fix something, or manually edit some other thing to get it to continue |
| 23:43.20 | TD-Linux | ~lart make for ugly verbose output |
| 23:43.20 | ibot | hits make with an anvil and laughs with a contralto voice ... Haha Ha HA Ha for ugly verbose output |
| 23:43.23 | brlcad | yep, linux |
| 23:43.30 | CBG | blast007: cmake had an installer thing... was done in like 20 seconds. |
| 23:43.37 | Tupone | well, never happen to me :/ |
| 23:43.42 | brlcad | it's still just code, it only takes one bug :) |
| 23:43.42 | Tupone | and I do it a lot |
| 23:43.46 | blast007 | CBG: what is giving you the %? |
| 23:44.00 | CBG | so I'm back working with osg now. just followed the read me: ./confgure and then make - it's supposedly 25% through |
| 23:44.10 | blast007 | k |
| 23:44.14 | CBG | the output does... obviously not entirely accurate |
| 23:49.32 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r15474 10/trunk/db/bzfls2/bzfls.php: Add some comment block headers for each action |
| 23:49.58 | Tupone | brlcad: if it happens again and you have time, look for me. If it is really portage and not the single ebuild I would like to make a report |
| 23:50.21 | brlcad | it was a long while ago |
| 23:51.12 | brlcad | the point was more that they *can* fail, and periodically will almost guaranteed .. it's like trying to guarantee that you will never have a bug, just doesn't happen without massive efforts :) |
| 23:52.51 | Tupone | well, so it is not like bzflag |
| 23:53.22 | brlcad | sure, but doesn't have to be :) |
| 23:53.55 | brlcad | code is code, the suite has gotten better over the years and their testing/deployment has improved too |
| 23:54.13 | brlcad | that can be said of several of them |
| 23:54.38 | Tupone | well, with don't know .. 20k ebuilds and lot of users, a big failure will raise fastly |
| 23:54.42 | brlcad | still wouldn't bet my life that any of them couldn't fail given the right requests/situations |
| 23:56.33 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15475 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (inc/MultiFace.h rules/start.set src/MultiFace.cxx): Now this is a ugly hack :/. But it may work! |
