| 00:00.01 | jude- | so swapping out different code chunks that render it will be a cinch :) |
| 00:00.06 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=jbdigriz@192.42.249.98) |
| 00:00.07 | jude- | be it 2D or 3D |
| 00:00.10 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 00:11.28 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-113-164-151.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 00:32.57 | *** join/#bzflag a_temp_dist (n=a_temp_d@about/essy/alarming/a-temp-dist) |
| 00:35.27 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpi_ (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 00:36.12 | a_temp_dist | anyone here applied the autohunt patch on OSX? I'd like to give it a try |
| 00:40.31 | *** join/#bzflag Tedius (n=Tedius@adsl-76-205-83-204.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:42.58 | blast007 | a_temp_dist: try it then ;) |
| 00:43.09 | blast007 | can you build? |
| 00:44.25 | a_temp_dist | yes, but I don't know the syntax for applying a patch on OSX |
| 00:45.02 | blast007 | should be on the forum |
| 00:45.06 | blast007 | run a search for 'patch' |
| 00:45.21 | blast007 | it'll be the 'patch' command anyway, but I can't recall the exact syntax either |
| 00:45.22 | a_temp_dist | i looked, some stuff from 2002 for windows |
| 00:45.25 | blast007 | ~patch |
| 00:45.26 | ibot | patch is probably just a tool to handle text file mutations according to a common format known as 'diff'. For kernel patching use (depending on type of patch): 'patch -p1 < patch.diff' or 'zcat patch.gz | patch -p1' or 'bzcat patch.bz2 | patch -p1', or `patch -ruN old_dir new_dir > tree.diff` |
| 00:45.52 | a_temp_dist | the diff goes into the same dir as the rest of the checked out code? |
| 00:46.01 | a_temp_dist | so into "bzflag" ? |
| 00:46.04 | JBdiGriz | on OS X, try man patch |
| 00:46.19 | jude- | a_temp_dist: yes |
| 00:46.23 | a_temp_dist | k thx |
| 00:46.40 | jude- | cd into the root of bzflag and type "patch -Np1 < /path/to/patch/file" |
| 00:46.50 | a_temp_dist | is N a variable? |
| 00:46.56 | jude- | no, it's an option |
| 00:47.00 | jude- | try man patch |
| 00:47.00 | a_temp_dist | ok thx |
| 00:47.41 | blast007 | the '1' might vary, depending on what kind of paths are in the patch file |
| 00:52.03 | a_temp_dist | "can't find file to patch at input line 12" - line 12 is " @@ -0,0 +1,987 @@ " |
| 00:52.47 | JBdiGriz | What's the file name in a previous line? |
| 00:53.15 | a_temp_dist | +++ AutoHunt.cxx25 May 2006 04:03:31 -0000 |
| 00:53.16 | blast007 | is that a unified diff? |
| 00:53.31 | a_temp_dist | it's "autohunt_bz2.0.9_v3.0.diff" |
| 00:54.01 | a_temp_dist | i've tried p0, p1, p2 |
| 00:54.19 | blast007 | add a 'u' before 'p' |
| 00:54.33 | JBdiGriz | AutoHunt.cxx doesn't seem to be part of the standard distribution. You might have to do some searching and evaluation of the patch. |
| 00:55.52 | a_temp_dist | using " patch -up1 <autohunt_bz2.0.9_v3.0.diff " I get " missing header for unified diff at line 12 of patch " |
| 00:56.04 | *** join/#bzflag The_Vaxorcist (n=phillip@dial-209-148-113-140.sonic.net) |
| 00:56.12 | JBdiGriz | It looks like AutoHunt might be in the recent sources. Are you using 2.0 or 2.1? |
| 00:56.30 | a_temp_dist | v2_0branch |
| 01:00.16 | *** join/#bzflag Theme97 (n=Theme97@about/essy/phpwriter/Theme97) |
| 01:03.24 | a_temp_dist | thx for trying - I'll just forget it for now |
| 01:03.32 | *** join/#bzflag GrandHustla (n=4a45e028@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 01:03.47 | delusional_ | what is default speed while moving backward |
| 01:04.06 | JeffM | IIRC 1/2 |
| 01:04.08 | blast007 | it's always half the forward speed |
| 01:04.18 | delusional_ | ok, thanks |
| 01:04.26 | awilcox | Yeah I never was thrilled with that. |
| 01:04.46 | a_temp_dist | too slow? |
| 01:04.49 | JeffM | can you drive your car backwards as fast as you can forwards? |
| 01:05.34 | jude- | haven't tried it, but I wouldn't be surprised |
| 01:05.38 | tannerld | lol |
| 01:05.47 | JeffM | you can't |
| 01:05.56 | JeffM | reverse is a single gear |
| 01:06.02 | JeffM | forward has 3+ gears |
| 01:06.05 | a_temp_dist | do bzf tanks have auto or std transmissions? |
| 01:06.09 | JeffM | dosn't matter |
| 01:06.18 | JeffM | they'd have to be electrics to do a full reverse |
| 01:06.19 | jude- | I'd say std, but with only one gear |
| 01:06.35 | *** join/#bzflag AWOSLappy (n=user@unaffiliated/awosdev) |
| 01:06.37 | JeffM | even automatic transmisions have a single reverse gear |
| 01:06.43 | JeffM | they just shift for you |
| 01:06.48 | JeffM | the motor dosn't change dirs |
| 01:06.55 | JeffM | only an electric can do that |
| 01:07.06 | JeffM | and as far as I know, only trains are set up like that |
| 01:07.07 | delusional_ | 18 wheelers usually have a half gear in revers |
| 01:07.21 | JeffM | how do you have 1/2 a gear? |
| 01:07.30 | JeffM | as in it's 1/2 the max speed of first? |
| 01:07.37 | delusional_ | theres a high and low range for every gear |
| 01:07.37 | JeffM | with 2x the torque? |
| 01:07.45 | JeffM | a gear is a ratio |
| 01:08.03 | JeffM | between engine rpm and drive shaft RPM |
| 01:08.34 | delusional_ | you ever driven an 18 wheeler? |
| 01:08.41 | JeffM | cars can go faster because becse you change to from a lower engine/drive ratio to a higher engine/drive ratio |
| 01:08.45 | JeffM | ever learned physics ;) |
| 01:08.50 | JeffM | they may call it "high and low" |
| 01:08.55 | JeffM | but it's still a gearset |
| 01:09.06 | JeffM | maybe they do 2 ratios |
| 01:09.15 | JeffM | 2 sets of gears they can shift to |
| 01:09.22 | delusional_ | yeah, two main ratio gears |
| 01:09.31 | JeffM | then that' just doubles the forwards |
| 01:09.37 | JeffM | it dosn't 1/2 the others |
| 01:09.50 | JeffM | if you have 2 main and 5 secondary |
| 01:09.54 | JeffM | then that gives you 10 combos |
| 01:10.01 | JeffM | so that's 10 physical gear modes |
| 01:10.17 | JeffM | I can see only having one combo for reverse |
| 01:10.24 | JeffM | as all you need is low speed high torque |
| 01:10.30 | tannerld | jude-: don't feel alone, it makes no sense to me either :P |
| 01:10.48 | JeffM | jude-, it defines a function per channel |
| 01:10.49 | JeffM | IIRC |
| 01:11.01 | jude- | I know |
| 01:11.02 | JeffM | well a series of functions |
| 01:11.04 | jude- | it's just weird |
| 01:11.11 | JeffM | indeed |
| 01:11.19 | JeffM | it's very versititle, but odd |
| 01:12.12 | jude- | so, you can repeat color sinusoids, and they'll be combined into a single periodic function (clamped between 0 and 1) within BZFlag? |
| 01:12.33 | JeffM | it will repeat them in order |
| 01:12.46 | JeffM | so you could have it flash slow on one sin, then flash faster on another |
| 01:12.48 | JeffM | then loop |
| 01:12.54 | jude- | oh |
| 01:13.08 | JeffM | it's basicly a list of commands |
| 01:13.17 | jude- | radians or degrees? |
| 01:13.24 | JeffM | dunno |
| 01:13.29 | tannerld | heh |
| 01:13.32 | jude- | or just units of time? |
| 01:13.42 | JeffM | probably time |
| 01:13.48 | JeffM | IIRC it's all time |
| 01:13.51 | JeffM | none of it's directional |
| 01:14.00 | JeffM | since it's material |
| 01:14.12 | jude- | how does the width paramter work? |
| 01:14.15 | jude- | or weight? |
| 01:14.18 | jude- | (the man page says both) |
| 01:14.27 | JeffM | IIRC it can shift the scale up or down |
| 01:14.44 | JeffM | so insted of going from 0 to 1, you can make it go from like 0.25 to 1 |
| 01:16.18 | jude- | so, green sinusoid 0.1 0 0.25 would cause the green channel to oscillate to a sine wave (or rather a cosine wave, since it starts at the maximum value of sine) which completes its cycle in 0.1 seconds, has no horizonatal shift (i.e. 0 offset), and the last parameter (weight) does...? |
| 01:17.02 | JeffM | sqish it from 0.25 to 1 |
| 01:17.10 | jude- | ahh |
| 01:17.18 | jude- | cool |
| 01:17.19 | JeffM | it may clam instead of sqush |
| 01:17.23 | JeffM | clamp |
| 01:17.26 | JeffM | I don't recall |
| 01:17.38 | JeffM | so it'd go from 0.25 to 1 |
| 01:17.46 | JeffM | but stay at a solid 1 for a while |
| 01:17.52 | JeffM | as it realy goes to 1.25 |
| 01:17.57 | jude- | right, since it's clamped |
| 01:17.59 | JeffM | but I may be guessing at that |
| 01:18.09 | JeffM | it could be a scal tho |
| 01:18.11 | JeffM | I don't know |
| 01:18.23 | jude- | says "width" and "weight" in the man page |
| 01:18.34 | JeffM | you may want to look at the code |
| 01:18.39 | jude- | tried that |
| 01:18.52 | JeffM | what does the code do with it? |
| 01:18.57 | jude- | I can't really tell |
| 01:19.02 | JeffM | I don't have any more trees here |
| 01:19.05 | JeffM | pastebin it |
| 01:19.21 | jude- | kk |
| 01:19.29 | blast007 | or webSVN |
| 01:23.08 | jude- | http://pastebin.ca/563201 |
| 01:23.36 | JeffM | I just wanted the one part |
| 01:23.39 | JeffM | *sigh* |
| 01:24.09 | jude- | sorry |
| 01:24.30 | JeffM | it's multiplied in |
| 01:24.34 | JeffM | so it's a scale |
| 01:24.42 | jude- | where do you see it? |
| 01:24.49 | JeffM | in the update |
| 01:24.54 | JeffM | value += s.weight * (float)cos(clampedPhase * (M_PI * 2.0)); |
| 01:25.01 | JeffM | so 0.25 would make it go from 0 to 1 |
| 01:25.10 | JeffM | sorry 0 to 0.25 |
| 01:25.26 | JeffM | 1.25 would clamp it up at 1 for a while |
| 01:28.32 | jude- | hmm |
| 01:31.32 | jude- | lol |
| 01:33.11 | tannerld | ask jeeves? |
| 01:33.40 | Winny | indeed |
| 01:35.45 | AWOSLappy | Is there a general place where I can get ideas about how to increase the framerate? |
| 01:35.49 | AWOSLappy | 4 FPS is so sucky. |
| 01:35.59 | JeffM | what card? |
| 01:36.04 | AWOSLappy | Radeon 7000 |
| 01:36.09 | JeffM | in what OS? |
| 01:36.12 | AWOSLappy | Windows XP. |
| 01:36.18 | JeffM | latest ATI drivers? |
| 01:36.23 | AWOSLappy | SSE and DirectX optimised. |
| 01:36.25 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: Yep. |
| 01:36.34 | AWOSLappy | I think mIRC+Ethereal+Firefox don't help. |
| 01:36.34 | JeffM | what quality mode are you in? |
| 01:36.44 | JeffM | they should not matter |
| 01:36.46 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: Finest, iirc. I usually get 30fps |
| 01:36.52 | JeffM | eww |
| 01:36.55 | JeffM | go down to high |
| 01:36.56 | AWOSLappy | but lately even with nothing open I've only been getting 15 |
| 01:37.05 | JeffM | make sure blending is on |
| 01:37.13 | JeffM | and textures are ether off, or the max |
| 01:37.16 | AWOSLappy | jude-: Shush. |
| 01:37.20 | JeffM | ATI hates the modes inbetween |
| 01:37.37 | JeffM | ether that or brlcad busted the state in the font manager |
| 01:37.58 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: well lemme close Firefox |
| 01:38.07 | AWOSLappy | I have 12 tabs including a few with Flash |
| 01:38.08 | JeffM | what res? |
| 01:38.17 | AWOSLappy | 1024x768x32 |
| 01:38.22 | JeffM | also do you have depth buffer on or off? |
| 01:38.24 | AWOSLappy | though bzflag may use 16 |
| 01:38.31 | JeffM | or did I remove that? |
| 01:38.34 | AWOSLappy | Erm, lemme bring it up |
| 01:39.09 | AWOSLappy | I don't see "depth buffer" |
| 01:39.15 | JeffM | then I removed it :) |
| 01:39.16 | AWOSLappy | Dithering: On |
| 01:39.22 | AWOSLappy | Blending: On |
| 01:39.24 | AWOSLappy | Smoothing: On |
| 01:39.30 | AWOSLappy | Lighting: Best |
| 01:39.33 | JeffM | you can try turning smothing off |
| 01:39.38 | JeffM | and the lighting down to fast |
| 01:39.42 | JeffM | that may help |
| 01:39.43 | AWOSLappy | Texturing: Linear Mipmap Linear |
| 01:39.46 | JeffM | good |
| 01:39.54 | AWOSLappy | Anisotropic(sp?): Off |
| 01:40.00 | AWOSLappy | Quality: High |
| 01:40.08 | AWOSLappy | Shadows: Stipple |
| 01:40.19 | JeffM | try stencil |
| 01:40.26 | JeffM | you may not have hardware stipple |
| 01:40.33 | AWOSLappy | Brightness: -----O--------- |
| 01:40.42 | AWOSLappy | Energy Saver: Off |
| 01:41.00 | AWOSLappy | and considering I can ALT+TAB between bzflag and mIRC I think it's running at native 1024x768x32 |
| 01:41.06 | AWOSLappy | it's a TFT so bigger = badder |
| 01:41.21 | JeffM | bigger is always better ;) |
| 01:41.42 | JeffM | turn the lghitng down, smoothing off, and set the shadows to stencil |
| 01:41.45 | JeffM | see what that does for ya |
| 01:42.07 | AWOSLappy | Going between 5 and 15 fps |
| 01:42.14 | AWOSLappy | shadows: stencil |
| 01:42.53 | AWOSLappy | Smoothing: Off |
| 01:43.00 | AWOSLappy | turn down lighting? |
| 01:43.05 | JeffM | it's a decent fillrate card it shouldd not be that slow |
| 01:43.06 | AWOSLappy | wow, 0 fps |
| 01:43.08 | JeffM | yeah why not |
| 01:43.43 | JeffM | you sure it hasnt' downclocked your CPU cus of some stupid intel "speed step" thing? |
| 01:44.03 | AWOSLappy | I don't have SpeedStep. |
| 01:44.17 | JeffM | the CPU may |
| 01:44.31 | AWOSLappy | Expected: 1.60GHz Reported: 1.60GHz |
| 01:44.43 | JeffM | then that is the suck |
| 01:44.51 | AWOSLappy | Expected: 400MHz Reported: 400MHz |
| 01:45.00 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: hell new processors ar 1.86GHz |
| 01:45.05 | AWOSLappy | don't tell me 1.6GHz is bad |
| 01:45.11 | JeffM | no, that it runs slow |
| 01:45.18 | JeffM | Id' think it'd run faster on that |
| 01:45.23 | AWOSLappy | It used to :-( |
| 01:45.30 | AWOSLappy | I even hit 40fps once |
| 01:45.37 | JeffM | I used to get 60ish on my mac with a 7000 |
| 01:45.40 | AWOSLappy | which is like...the best framerate I've ever gotten on a game |
| 01:45.43 | AWOSLappy | (sad) |
| 01:45.46 | JeffM | and it was a 350 G3 |
| 01:46.16 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: I'm on XP but it feels like when I had the OpenGL suck on Linux |
| 01:46.29 | JeffM | you could be out of card ram |
| 01:46.32 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: and even Firefox is slower...I'm wondering if maybe something amis |
| 01:46.40 | JeffM | and it's kicking into software |
| 01:46.45 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: 64MB VRAM?! |
| 01:46.54 | JeffM | don't know what other apps are using it |
| 01:46.56 | AWOSLappy | I refuse to believe the bzflag could take up 64MB VRAM |
| 01:47.06 | JeffM | bzflag isn't the only thing using the card posibly ;) |
| 01:47.06 | AWOSLappy | mIRC |
| 01:47.20 | JeffM | or we ask for a mode the driver kicks to software in |
| 01:47.28 | JeffM | ATI drivers are very picky about modes |
| 01:47.36 | JeffM | they will kick to software in a heartbeat |
| 01:48.43 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: no, it's in a good mode |
| 01:48.52 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4739/bzflaglp4.png |
| 01:49.11 | JeffM | I meant context mode for the card |
| 01:49.33 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: I haven't changed bzflag settings since I got 40fps |
| 01:49.41 | AWOSLappy | here lemme try a different server |
| 01:49.58 | JeffM | testing is best on a local server, with a default ranom map |
| 01:50.16 | JeffM | or bestest on a fixed map with fixed spawn code :) |
| 01:50.21 | jude- | how does one get BZFlag to print fps? |
| 01:50.30 | JeffM | had a plugin once that would make the same map and same spawns for FPS testing :) |
| 01:50.33 | JeffM | jude-, t |
| 01:51.27 | AWOSLappy | Ack. |
| 01:51.38 | AWOSLappy | Okay hepcat that I normally hit 40 on is 15 |
| 01:51.47 | AWOSLappy | that *sucks* compared to what I normally get |
| 01:52.15 | AWOSLappy | local server? |
| 01:52.21 | AWOSLappy | Mmkay. |
| 01:53.48 | AWOSLappy | Okay. |
| 01:53.51 | AWOSLappy | Local server = 30fps |
| 01:54.04 | AWOSLappy | I would think I should get a *LOT* better than that |
| 01:54.09 | JeffM | indeed |
| 01:54.34 | JeffM | have you not restarted in a while? |
| 01:55.08 | AWOSLappy | Logon date: 06/12/2007 05:50:36 PM |
| 01:55.33 | AWOSLappy | Curr. date: 06/12/2007 09:56:00 PM |
| 01:55.40 | AWOSLappy | 4 hrs 6 mins. |
| 01:55.53 | JeffM | joo g0tz izu3z then |
| 01:56.01 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: LOL |
| 01:56.09 | AWOSLappy | You're tellin me |
| 01:57.59 | AWOSLappy | It kinda hit 28fps for a brief second |
| 01:58.01 | AWOSLappy | which is better |
| 01:58.06 | AWOSLappy | still though, !40 |
| 01:58.41 | jude- | I'm looking at the maps on SF.net...any of them use BZW 2.0 features? |
| 01:59.25 | AWOSLappy | http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/3764/18fpsnw3.png |
| 01:59.27 | AWOSLappy | ^ does that help at all? |
| 02:00.08 | JeffM | jude-, find any map made by "louman" on the fourms |
| 02:00.14 | JeffM | heavy use of 2.0 stuff |
| 02:00.30 | jude- | kk |
| 02:00.58 | AWOSLappy | what's this "tris: 648" thing? |
| 02:01.06 | *** join/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=Macrosof@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) |
| 02:01.08 | AWOSLappy | whenever I see a line with "tris" the FPS goes down |
| 02:01.12 | JeffM | how many triangles are in the frame |
| 02:01.17 | AWOSLappy | Ah. |
| 02:01.20 | AWOSLappy | It's hit 1000. |
| 02:01.20 | JeffM | more triangles == slower speed |
| 02:01.26 | AWOSLappy | Obviously. |
| 02:01.31 | JeffM | if you had T&L that would not be the case |
| 02:01.36 | AWOSLappy | T&L? |
| 02:01.38 | JeffM | untill you flooded your pipe |
| 02:01.42 | JeffM | Transform and Lighting |
| 02:01.44 | JeffM | on the card |
| 02:01.59 | JeffM | your card can only fill screen space textured triangles |
| 02:02.10 | JeffM | all the world space to screen space stuff is done by the CPU |
| 02:02.40 | JeffM | modern cards, take world space geometry, keep it on the card, and then transform and light it there |
| 02:02.42 | JeffM | it's a lot faster |
| 02:04.23 | JeffM | jude-, http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3369&highlight= |
| 02:04.32 | AWOSLappy | well all I have is a little R100 VE |
| 02:04.41 | JeffM | exactly, it's not a T&L card |
| 02:04.41 | AWOSLappy | still though it shouldn't be 15fps |
| 02:04.45 | JeffM | yeah it should be more |
| 02:05.04 | AWOSLappy | Bang. |
| 02:05.06 | AWOSLappy | Er, dang. |
| 02:05.17 | AWOSLappy | If I had a 7200 it's have T&L |
| 02:05.37 | JeffM | jude-, also mystic valley on this thread is good |
| 02:05.37 | JeffM | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=5634&highlight= |
| 02:06.10 | jude- | sweet |
| 02:06.24 | JeffM | and H20 http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=7883&highlight= |
| 02:06.28 | JeffM | it's mostly meshes |
| 02:06.33 | JeffM | he did all his work in lightwave |
| 02:07.17 | AWOSLappy | TBH... |
| 02:07.34 | AWOSLappy | even without the fglrx drivers on Linux, I hit 40fps |
| 02:07.53 | AWOSLappy | and when xp fps < Linux without fglrx fps |
| 02:07.58 | AWOSLappy | I think there's something wrong here |
| 02:08.08 | delusional_ | The cheaters have been advertising their warez with the callsign... you know who I'm talking about. |
| 02:08.08 | delusional_ | It's probably a good Idea to add "cheat" and "blogspot" to your -badwords lists, if you havent done so already |
| 02:08.24 | AWOSLappy | delusional_: blogspot?! |
| 02:08.51 | delusional_ | well, obviously, you don't know what I'm talking about |
| 02:09.14 | AWOSLappy | delusional_ nup. we had a cheater on hepcat earlier |
| 02:09.20 | AWOSLappy | but it didn't have anything to do with blogspot |
| 02:09.26 | delusional_ | I banned 2 today |
| 02:10.22 | JeffM | doubt you'll get statics off of em |
| 02:11.54 | AWOSLappy | :O |
| 02:11.58 | AWOSLappy | JeffM is teh gonez0r! |
| 02:17.23 | *** join/#bzflag Pumpernickel (n=pumperni@CPE0016b6c9fba4-CM0012c9a9a6dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 02:17.25 | blast007 | delusional_: probably best to only add "blogspot" |
| 02:17.45 | blast007 | otherwise, people will be like "that guy is #&$^#@#" (cheating) |
| 02:18.03 | delusional_ | you are correct |
| 02:26.24 | WinnyAFK | someone ax that "flag combos" thread... just people posting "OO + GM + SW!!!!!!11" |
| 02:26.32 | *** join/#bzflag The_Vaxorcist (n=phillip@dial-209-148-114-16.sonic.net) |
| 02:27.25 | blast007 | WinnyAFK: I want a Quad Glacier flag |
| 02:28.26 | blast007 | the explosion will be of extrodinary magnitude |
| 02:28.33 | blast007 | just... hold on |
| 02:28.35 | WinnyAFK | jude-, 1.0 is where its at :p |
| 02:28.49 | blast007 | 1.7e2 FTW |
| 02:29.20 | blast007 | those were the days.... when my 133MHz system could run BZFlag.... |
| 02:29.41 | WinnyAFK | it still COULF |
| 02:29.44 | WinnyAFK | just...well.. |
| 02:29.47 | WinnyAFK | at .2fps |
| 02:30.09 | blast007 | I ran 2.0.4 on a 486 75MHz with 12MB of RAM ;) |
| 02:30.14 | tannerld | heh |
| 02:30.20 | blast007 | running Windows 95 |
| 02:30.32 | blast007 | then I started to turn up settings |
| 02:30.49 | blast007 | couldn't tell if it had locked up, or if it was still drawing the frame (10 minutes later) |
| 02:30.54 | tannerld | LOL |
| 02:30.56 | WinnyAFK | my customized base texturs are bigger then 12mb :p |
| 02:31.27 | blast007 | yeah, it was probably those pesky textures I turned on |
| 02:34.35 | jude- | uh oh |
| 02:35.34 | jude- | oh wait--nm |
| 02:35.43 | tannerld | heh |
| 02:36.19 | trepan | WinnyAFK: my 'boxwall' textures alone are 5.3MB (png) |
| 02:36.51 | WinnyAFK | yeah, I upgarded almost everything to 1024x1024 or 2048x2048 |
| 02:37.20 | tannerld | O.o |
| 02:38.01 | jude- | no biggie--easy to fix |
| 02:38.08 | *** part/#bzflag a_temp_dist (n=a_temp_d@about/essy/alarming/a-temp-dist) |
| 02:38.14 | Macrosoft | hello |
| 02:38.30 | jude- | hello Macrosoft |
| 02:38.51 | Macrosoft | hey jude, what types of arguments will sizeof() take |
| 02:39.05 | jude- | huh? |
| 02:39.06 | tannerld | one? |
| 02:39.19 | jude- | just a variable |
| 02:39.23 | jude- | and it'll return its size |
| 02:39.24 | tannerld | sizeof(var)? |
| 02:39.37 | jude- | careful--the size of a pointer is not the size of the memory it points to |
| 02:39.41 | jude- | (not usually) |
| 02:39.54 | trepan | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sizeof |
| 02:39.57 | Macrosoft | wwould this work: sizeof("abracadabra") |
| 02:39.59 | The_Vaxorcist | sizeof(type) works too, doesn't it? |
| 02:40.13 | jude- | The_Vaxorcist: yes |
| 02:40.19 | jude- | Macrosoft: that'd be 4 |
| 02:40.23 | jude- | on a 32-bit system |
| 02:40.48 | Macrosoft | 4? shouldnt it be 12? |
| 02:40.49 | blast007 | Macrosoft: ever use strlen? |
| 02:41.12 | jude- | Macrosoft: you're taking the size of an implicit pointer to the char array "abracadabra" |
| 02:41.14 | Macrosoft | one byte for each character, then one for the null terminator |
| 02:41.16 | WinnyAFK | VB.net FTW! ;) |
| 02:41.34 | jude- | eww |
| 02:41.51 | blast007 | Macrosoft: what are you trying to calculate? |
| 02:42.03 | Macrosoft | the size of a string |
| 02:42.08 | Macrosoft | in bytes |
| 02:42.12 | blast007 | okay, and for what purpose? |
| 02:42.18 | blast007 | what is the end goal? |
| 02:42.27 | Macrosoft | ill tell you later |
| 02:42.37 | blast007 | ... |
| 02:43.12 | jude- | a string or a char array? |
| 02:43.26 | jude- | "text goes here" is a char array |
| 02:43.33 | jude- | by itself |
| 02:43.37 | Macrosoft | so... the size of string "abra" would be (strlen("abra") + 1) |
| 02:44.03 | jude- | no...just strlen("abra") I think... |
| 02:44.05 | Macrosoft | the "+ 1" is for the null terminator at the end |
| 02:44.22 | Macrosoft | its still part of the size |
| 02:44.34 | The_Vaxorcist | sizeof("ABRACADABRA") returns 12 too - sizeof returns the array size |
| 02:44.36 | blast007 | try it and see |
| 02:44.44 | jude- | I'm not sure of this, but I think in some environments the '\0' character is implicitly concatinated at the end of any string |
| 02:45.03 | Macrosoft | yeah, so it would be part of it |
| 02:45.15 | jude- | I think strlen counts it |
| 02:45.20 | Macrosoft | ok |
| 02:45.20 | jude- | not sure, though |
| 02:45.42 | trepan | The strlen() function calculates the length of the string s, not including the terminating `\0' character. |
| 02:45.52 | jude- | there you have it |
| 02:45.54 | trepan | 'man strlen' |
| 02:46.03 | Macrosoft | so, did you ever get that foo() problem solved |
| 02:46.54 | Macrosoft | jude? |
| 02:47.27 | jude- | what foo() problem? |
| 02:47.52 | jude- | oh, that problem? |
| 02:47.56 | jude- | with ftoa() |
| 02:48.00 | jude- | yes |
| 02:48.06 | jude- | by using a static buffer |
| 02:48.10 | jude- | thanks for asking :) |
| 02:48.53 | Macrosoft | i thought maybe foo(malloc(sizeof("mystring"))); would work |
| 02:49.25 | Macrosoft | malloc returns a pointer to the allocated space right? |
| 02:49.33 | jude- | it would work...but then how do I get the pointer returned by malloc() so I can free it later? |
| 02:49.43 | Macrosoft | hmm... |
| 02:49.49 | The_Vaxorcist | = operator? |
| 02:49.51 | blast007 | you just guess |
| 02:49.52 | jude- | without introducing an extra line? |
| 02:50.31 | Macrosoft | dont know, i came up with that solution above while i was slacking off at work |
| 02:50.31 | jude- | besides, malloc() puts its data into the heap |
| 02:50.43 | jude- | it'd be nice if it was on the stack |
| 02:51.02 | jude- | because it'd be so small |
| 02:51.31 | Macrosoft | sorry, dont know anything about using stacks in C++... only in ASM |
| 02:51.37 | jude- | same concept :) |
| 02:51.46 | Macrosoft | same command too? |
| 02:51.48 | jude- | only a bit more advanced with x86 assembler than z80 |
| 02:51.53 | jude- | use the "enter" opcode |
| 02:52.09 | jude- | something like this: |
| 02:52.17 | jude- | my_cool_code_segment: |
| 02:52.20 | jude- | enter 16,0 |
| 02:52.32 | jude- | ; do stuff here |
| 02:52.34 | jude- | leave |
| 02:52.34 | jude- | ret |
| 02:52.44 | Macrosoft | whats the enter op do |
| 02:52.46 | Macrosoft | ? |
| 02:52.49 | jude- | allocates a stack frame |
| 02:53.03 | Macrosoft | what about the arguments? |
| 02:53.18 | Macrosoft | 16 bytes? |
| 02:53.26 | Macrosoft | 0 somethings? |
| 02:53.48 | Macrosoft | blast007 must have issues with ASM :) |
| 02:53.55 | jude- | the first one, if I recall correctly, is the size of the stack to push back |
| 02:54.14 | Macrosoft | whats the 0 arg. do |
| 02:54.20 | jude- | local variable space, IIRC |
| 02:54.39 | blast007 | Macrosoft: the stack grew too large and unstable |
| 02:55.25 | Macrosoft | i could never get ASM to work in C++ |
| 02:55.47 | Macrosoft | you know, that "ASM ( { /*asm code here*/})" stuff |
| 02:55.54 | jude- | brb |
| 02:57.03 | jude- | (telephone call) |
| 03:03.19 | Macrosoft | so, im thinking of adding more groups to my groupdb file |
| 03:03.45 | *** join/#bzflag PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-76-106-124-125.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 03:03.50 | Macrosoft | like LOCAL.MUTE and LOCAL.BAN |
| 03:04.29 | jude- | back |
| 03:04.41 | jude- | ASM implementation varies by IDE |
| 03:04.50 | jude- | usually its safest to write it in a separate file |
| 03:04.59 | Macrosoft | like, if a player is always abusive with chat... i'll add him/her to the LOCAL.MUTE group so that he is automatically muted when he joins |
| 03:05.10 | jude- | invoke an assembler int the makefile and link them with GCC |
| 03:05.30 | Macrosoft | ok |
| 03:05.48 | jude- | have a look at NASM |
| 03:05.52 | Macrosoft | ? |
| 03:06.01 | jude- | Network ASseMbler |
| 03:06.11 | jude- | cross-platform x86 assembler |
| 03:06.24 | jude- | it's the one I used in my x86 architecture class |
| 03:06.39 | jude- | pretty easy |
| 03:06.56 | jude- | but has the reversed syntax of AT&T assembler |
| 03:07.14 | jude- | which is probably what's in your IDE |
| 03:08.32 | Macrosoft | x86 architecture class? |
| 03:08.38 | jude- | yup |
| 03:08.42 | Macrosoft | where? |
| 03:08.47 | jude- | "Intro to x86 assembler and architecture" |
| 03:08.55 | jude- | Pima Community College; senior year in high school |
| 03:09.11 | Macrosoft | high school had it |
| 03:09.12 | Macrosoft | ? |
| 03:09.51 | jude- | no, I attended the class while I was in high school |
| 03:10.00 | Macrosoft | oh, i might be learning C++ at work |
| 03:10.32 | jude- | cool |
| 03:10.36 | Macrosoft | i decided to join the air force |
| 03:11.15 | Macrosoft | the position im going for involves data security, programming, and stuff like that |
| 03:11.21 | jude- | nice |
| 03:11.41 | Macrosoft | it counts as education and job experience |
| 03:11.58 | jude- | even better :) |
| 03:12.09 | jude- | regarding the enter opcode...usually it's just "enter 0,0" |
| 03:12.15 | jude- | just to set up a stack frame |
| 03:12.21 | Macrosoft | thats also why my server is going down in september, i wont be around to take care of it |
| 03:12.29 | jude- | aww |
| 03:13.19 | Macrosoft | i have to take a test first to qualify for that programming position |
| 03:13.48 | jude- | start studying :) |
| 03:14.09 | Macrosoft | dont know what to study |
| 03:15.20 | jude- | how well do you know C? |
| 03:15.28 | Macrosoft | not very |
| 03:15.36 | jude- | learn that first |
| 03:15.44 | jude- | when you master C, then go on to C++ |
| 03:15.53 | Macrosoft | its not a test on programming |
| 03:16.08 | jude- | what's it a test on? |
| 03:16.19 | Macrosoft | its a test that determines what field of work you are strong in |
| 03:16.47 | Macrosoft | i happen to be strong in math, tech., and science |
| 03:17.05 | jude- | so, how specific will the test be? |
| 03:17.13 | Macrosoft | not sure |
| 03:17.57 | Macrosoft | i took a short practice version of the test and got a 80 something |
| 03:18.12 | jude- | cool |
| 03:18.14 | DTRemenak | assuming you're talking about the ASVAB, it's a very general, broad, standardized test |
| 03:18.24 | Macrosoft | yeah, thats it!! |
| 03:18.32 | DTRemenak | science, arithmetic, reasoning, vocabulary, comprehension, and so on |
| 03:19.10 | Macrosoft | on the practice one i scored higher than 80-something percent of other people that took it |
| 03:19.51 | DTRemenak | which is not saying a whole lot :) |
| 03:19.57 | Macrosoft | i wish i had the score sheet so i could give exact details |
| 03:20.33 | Macrosoft | its close to the required score for the position i want |
| 03:21.20 | Macrosoft | i just have to be sure to do my best on the real thing |
| 03:23.26 | Macrosoft | the classes i would have to take for the position would be free, and i still get paid during training |
| 03:24.01 | *** join/#bzflag eerie (i=442ee88d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-257d7b3ff8db8f11) |
| 03:26.05 | DTRemenak | sure, where "free" is defined as "signing away four+ years of your life to the US government" :P |
| 03:26.23 | Macrosoft | its still a good deal to me |
| 03:27.04 | Macrosoft | free classes, job experience, getting paid to code (best reason of all!!) |
| 03:30.53 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
| 03:42.38 | Macrosoft | hey, i just thought of something...can you put a shot limit on team flags |
| 03:42.40 | Macrosoft | ? |
| 03:44.40 | DTRemenak | try it and see |
| 03:45.12 | Macrosoft | it would be a cool way to make ctf harder |
| 03:45.34 | blast007 | does it work? |
| 03:45.45 | Macrosoft | dont know yet |
| 03:46.12 | Macrosoft | i think it would be like: |
| 03:46.18 | Macrosoft | -sl B* 1 |
| 03:46.26 | blast007 | try it |
| 03:46.33 | Macrosoft | to limit blue team flag to one shot |
| 03:47.10 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=jbdigriz@192.42.249.98) |
| 03:47.10 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 03:47.19 | Macrosoft | looks like i cant try it now, the server just started filling up with other people |
| 03:47.44 | JeffM | won't that drop the flag after? not just limit the shots? |
| 03:47.51 | JeffM | cus that would kinda suck |
| 03:47.58 | DTRemenak | yeah, I tihnk that's what he wants |
| 03:48.04 | Macrosoft | yep |
| 03:48.21 | Macrosoft | makes it harder to cap if you cant defend yourself |
| 03:48.22 | blast007 | Macrosoft: make a..oh, I don't know... a second server? |
| 03:48.43 | DTRemenak | not entirely sure *why*...as a player, it'd piss me off to no end. but hey, it's his server, he can do what he wants |
| 03:50.25 | Macrosoft | i didnt say i was going to keep it like that, i just wanted to see if it would work |
| 03:53.34 | L4m3r | oooh, before I forget- guyfawkes is still using bots on his pythonian server |
| 03:53.54 | JeffM | now that is a good term right there "ablative pointman" :) |
| 03:54.09 | *** join/#bzflag Deepa (n=deepa@wrongplanet/deepa) |
| 03:54.42 | Macrosoft | whats so special about his bots? |
| 03:54.51 | DTRemenak | L4m3r: brlcad is the contact man for that one. I dunno if they talked and he decided it was ok, or if he's just forgotten. |
| 03:54.51 | L4m3r | he's using them to scan the list server |
| 03:55.04 | Macrosoft | scan? |
| 03:55.09 | L4m3r | oops |
| 03:55.14 | L4m3r | s/scan/scam/ |
| 03:55.37 | Macrosoft | what is going to be done about it |
| 03:55.48 | L4m3r | DTRemenak: I doubt he's been OK'd... the last few days, he's been adding them at night to boost the server, and then removes them during the day |
| 03:56.05 | DTRemenak | L4m3r: well, like I said, talk to brlcad about it :) |
| 03:56.06 | L4m3r | or they're getting pollkicked |
| 03:56.48 | L4m3r | heh, looks like brlcad went to lunch and never came back :P |
| 03:57.03 | DTRemenak | he takes long lunches sometimes |
| 03:57.05 | DTRemenak | *really* long |
| 03:57.08 | L4m3r | oh well... he'll see the highlight and message me :P |
| 03:58.08 | DTRemenak | yeah, I added the calamari a bit too soon and didn't get enough of the tomato liquid boiled off |
| 03:58.10 | DTRemenak | whoops |
| 03:58.12 | DTRemenak | ~ww |
| 03:58.24 | ibot | Wrong window pansie |
| 03:59.20 | JeffM | NOOOO don' cook akbar.. IT'S A TRAP! |
| 04:00.34 | DTRemenak | hehee |
| 04:02.13 | JeffM | is that the kit fisto race? |
| 04:02.55 | DTRemenak | no, fisto is a nautolian or some such |
| 04:03.11 | JeffM | them squid head |
| 04:03.44 | DTRemenak | if you remember kotor, most of the Exchange leaders were Quarren |
| 04:04.16 | DTRemenak | tentacles under the chin as well as behind the head |
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| 04:30.24 | jude- | back |
| 04:31.27 | *** join/#bzflag DavidHKMrPowers (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/davidhkmrpowers) |
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| 05:16.10 | *** join/#bzflag jude- (n=jude@c-68-84-206-92.hsd1.az.comcast.net) |
| 05:16.15 | jude- | there we go |
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| 05:21.16 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@dyndsl-085-016-008-217.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
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| 06:09.45 | Macrosoft | ... |
| 06:10.38 | Macrosoft | i think i was asleep for the past few hours...just kinda nodded off |
| 06:10.55 | Macrosoft | i miss anything |
| 06:10.57 | Macrosoft | ? |
| 06:11.00 | AWOSLappy | Hi Macrosoft. |
| 06:11.20 | AWOSLappy | Macrosoft: I don't think so. some guy was ranting about joining the air force, that's all |
| 06:11.23 | AWOSLappy | er |
| 06:11.33 | AWOSLappy | no, you didn't miss anything :/ |
| 06:11.33 | Macrosoft | oh |
| 06:11.40 | Macrosoft | you should kill him |
| 06:12.22 | jude- | ...almost...have...dynamicColor...working... |
| 06:13.04 | Macrosoft | at least i didmt fall out of my chair while i was asleep |
| 06:13.10 | AWOSLappy | Macrosoft: Well that's good. |
| 06:13.28 | Macrosoft | that would have sucked |
| 06:14.41 | Macrosoft | . |
| 06:14.42 | Macrosoft | .. |
| 06:14.44 | Macrosoft | ... |
| 06:14.59 | AWOSLappy | .... |
| 06:15.05 | AWOSLappy | ..... |
| 06:15.07 | Macrosoft | i need food |
| 06:15.07 | AWOSLappy | ...... |
| 06:15.20 | AWOSLappy | Macrosoft: Go eat. |
| 06:18.45 | jude- | success! |
| 06:18.55 | DTRemenak | heh, try that as an AB ;) |
| 06:19.20 | DTRemenak | jude-: success? sounds great! :) |
| 06:19.55 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03judecn * r14326 10/trunk/bzworkbench/ (12 files in 5 dirs): Added support for "texturematrix" and "dynamicColor"; made objects better at catching syntax errors. |
| 06:20.00 | DTRemenak | woot |
| 06:20.17 | jude- | AB? |
| 06:20.34 | DTRemenak | eh, reference to an earlier conversation with Macrosoft |
| 06:20.41 | jude- | oh |
| 06:20.51 | DTRemenak | USAF E-1 is airman basic, AB |
| 06:21.03 | jude- | o |
| 06:21.03 | jude- | h |
| 06:21.20 | DTRemenak | I see |
| 06:21.48 | jude- | and now...the "mesh" object |
| 06:21.57 | DTRemenak | heh, saving the best for last? :) |
| 06:22.21 | DTRemenak | shouldn't be that bad |
| 06:22.33 | DTRemenak | you'll likely need to convert everything else into meshes to draw anyway ;) |
| 06:22.41 | jude- | I *still* don't know how drawinfo works :P |
| 06:22.48 | DTRemenak | welcome to the club |
| 06:23.28 | jude- | the normal stuff is easy, but drawinfo and lod I'm still a bit unsure of |
| 06:23.39 | jude- | I have an idea of how they work... |
| 06:23.59 | jude- | but I'm not sure how well my parser and error-catching mechanisms will match up against bzfs and other peoples' levels |
| 06:24.47 | Macrosoft | mmm...root beer and fritos |
| 06:24.51 | jude- | I'm *really* tring to avoid a zillion bug reports that begin with "my hand-written map doesn't load!" |
| 06:25.06 | AWOSLappy | Vista restricts GCC apps to 32MB! --> http://www.trnicely.net/misc/vista.html |
| 06:25.14 | jude- | already knew that |
| 06:25.16 | DTRemenak | thorough testing is just about all that can avoid bug reports |
| 06:25.18 | jude- | the fix is in for SP1 |
| 06:25.31 | Macrosoft | thats why you should use linux |
| 06:25.37 | jude- | heh--anyone surprised? |
| 06:25.45 | jude- | also, OpenGL isn't natively supported in Vista |
| 06:25.57 | Macrosoft | thats crap! |
| 06:26.02 | jude- | only a DirectX comatibility layer |
| 06:26.07 | jude- | *compatibility |
| 06:26.21 | AWOSLappy | dang. |
| 06:26.22 | Macrosoft | sounds like a crash waiting to happen |
| 06:26.22 | jude- | or, you could disable the 3D desktop effects |
| 06:26.27 | AWOSLappy | jude-: the SP1 is just a rumour |
| 06:26.32 | jude- | heh |
| 06:26.36 | jude- | most likely :) |
| 06:26.52 | DTRemenak | opengl direct rendering is supported |
| 06:27.00 | Macrosoft | i feel a vista next-gen blue screen of death coming on |
| 06:27.13 | jude- | DTRemenak, it's nowhere near DirectX quality |
| 06:27.22 | jude- | lemme find the link.. |
| 06:27.26 | DTRemenak | sure wish people would stop citing outdated information...they planned to obsolete it, but just ended up changing the ICD model. drivers have to adapt. |
| 06:28.09 | jude- | here we go: |
| 06:28.11 | jude- | http://digg.com/tech_news/Microsoft_finally_enables_OpenGL_Windows_Vista_support |
| 06:28.14 | DTRemenak | they also obsoleted certain operations, including drawing GDI objects over GL viewports (and coincidentally, also over DDraw viewports) |
| 06:28.18 | jude- | even still, it's 1.4 |
| 06:28.37 | Macrosoft | glad i didnt buy vista (not that my box could handle it anyway) |
| 06:28.40 | DTRemenak | MS' software GL implementation sucks (duh) |
| 06:28.50 | DTRemenak | use a real video card and you get real performance |
| 06:29.41 | DTRemenak | jude-: see http://blogs.msdn.com/kamvedbrat/archive/2006/02/22/537624.aspx |
| 06:29.47 | DTRemenak | #3 in particular |
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| 06:30.41 | DTRemenak | basically it's direct gl rendering the same way compiz et al do it on linux (render into a surface and composite the surface), just with the final surface being DWM instead of XGL |
| 06:30.48 | jude- | DTRemenak, see #1 |
| 06:31.09 | DTRemenak | MS' software opengl implementation has *always* sucked |
| 06:31.15 | DTRemenak | it's faster on vista than on xp |
| 06:31.27 | DTRemenak | by close to 25% in our tests |
| 06:31.48 | Macrosoft | that #2 at that link looks like a security hole |
| 06:31.51 | DTRemenak | and it allows us to use 1.3 and 1.4 functions, unlike XP's stock opengl |
| 06:31.57 | Macrosoft | the legacy icd's |
| 06:31.58 | DTRemenak | which is a 1.2 implementation |
| 06:32.31 | jude- | 2.0 |
| 06:32.42 | DTRemenak | mesa is way, way better than msgl. always has been. |
| 06:32.47 | jude- | yup |
| 06:33.09 | jude- | also, NVIDIA's implementation is pretty good in Linux as well |
| 06:33.11 | DTRemenak | the hardware implementations are (naturally) roughly equivalent across platforms, though, which is what really matters |
| 06:33.21 | jude- | yup |
| 06:33.29 | DTRemenak | yes, nvidia's driver team did a reasonably good job. unlike ati's :) |
| 06:33.34 | jude- | heh |
| 06:33.42 | jude- | they're still waiting for GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap |
| 06:34.08 | jude- | which has been in NVIDIA's driver for years |
| 06:34.24 | jude- | and allows for compositing window managers without a secondary OGL X server |
| 06:34.58 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 06:35.33 | DTRemenak | their marketing drones claimed to be considering it |
| 06:35.52 | jude- | the key word being "claimed" |
| 06:35.57 | DTRemenak | indeed |
| 06:39.33 | L4m3r | "Hey, nVidia's got us pwned from all directions." |
| 06:40.03 | L4m3r | "Hmm... we might as well win some geek cred and open-source our drivers then, not like they'll steal anything." |
| 06:40.16 | L4m3r | "Yeah, but only until the next cycle!" |
| 06:40.31 | Macrosoft | jude-: you said you took an x86 class in school... did you take a z80 class too...or was that something you just decided to do in your freetime |
| 06:40.36 | L4m3r | "Release the marketrons!" |
| 06:41.02 | jude- | Macrosoft: z80 was something I touched on before and during high school |
| 06:41.09 | jude- | x86 was a class I took after that |
| 06:41.11 | Macrosoft | ok |
| 06:41.23 | awilcox | Heh. |
| 06:41.32 | awilcox | I really loved assembly. |
| 06:41.37 | jude- | "loved" :) |
| 06:41.40 | awilcox | Learned at 10 years old. (x86) |
| 06:41.41 | Macrosoft | i learned about z80 because the 83p manual mentioned it |
| 06:41.48 | jude- | same here |
| 06:41.52 | awilcox | jude-: yeah I omitted a key word |
| 06:41.56 | awilcox | I really loved learning assembly. |
| 06:42.08 | awilcox | I use it and apply it most days of my life |
| 06:42.33 | jude- | knowing how the machine interprets instructions really helps one optimize their high-level language coding |
| 06:42.49 | Macrosoft | it was weird, all the manual said was that you could run ASM programs on it... it didnt say anything about where to learn it or anything |
| 06:42.52 | jude- | Macrosoft: z80 isn't really my strong point; I'm MUCH better at MC68000 |
| 06:42.56 | awilcox | jude-: exactly. and sometimes I just write stuff in ASM |
| 06:43.10 | awilcox | jude-: 68K?! |
| 06:43.15 | jude- | awilcox: once I wrote an entire 3D rasterizer engine in 68K |
| 06:43.22 | awilcox | jude-: :O do you know PPC? |
| 06:43.27 | jude- | no, sorry |
| 06:43.28 | Macrosoft | optimizing high-level? i thought most compilers did that for you now |
| 06:43.39 | jude- | I learned 68K for old Palm PDA programming :) |
| 06:43.48 | jude- | they all have Motorola Dragonball VZ processors |
| 06:43.59 | jude- | which are high-end MC68000's, basically |
| 06:44.08 | awilcox | Macrosoft: psh. real geeks optimise their OWN high-level |
| 06:44.23 | awilcox | you'll see lots of _asm()s in my code, I'll tell ya that much |
| 06:44.34 | Macrosoft | i dont have a 89 titanium, so i never started on 68K stuff |
| 06:44.39 | jude- | Macrosoft: one of the tasks in my x86 class was to hand-code an algorithm we were given in C and to get it to run at double the speed of the gcc-compiled program |
| 06:45.02 | jude- | gcc can optimize, but not nearly as well as hand-coding |
| 06:45.06 | Macrosoft | hand code in ASM or C++ |
| 06:45.09 | awilcox | when I wrote the one DirectX app I did write, most was in C but I couldn't get some of it to work except in assembly |
| 06:45.10 | jude- | asm |
| 06:45.19 | jude- | lol |
| 06:45.32 | jude- | it was a shell sort algorithm |
| 06:45.38 | jude- | we were given the C code |
| 06:45.39 | awilcox | jude-: I know. you'd expect DirectX to like Visual C++. |
| 06:45.48 | Macrosoft | x86 is complicated with all its segment registers and such |
| 06:45.56 | jude- | pssh |
| 06:45.59 | jude- | not the 32-bit ones :) |
| 06:46.03 | awilcox | Macrosoft: segment base = 0; segment limit = FFFFFFFFh; |
| 06:46.05 | jude- | 4GB flat memory FTW |
| 06:46.06 | awilcox | tada |
| 06:47.07 | jude- | it was a problem I had a lot on the 68K |
| 06:47.25 | jude- | a jmp instruction could only go 32K :( |
| 06:47.32 | awilcox | jude-: wow |
| 06:47.37 | jude- | or, rather, a "bra" instruction |
| 06:47.42 | awilcox | bra? |
| 06:47.47 | Macrosoft | i never understood why you have to use interrupt 13 bios stuff all the time |
| 06:47.47 | jude- | BRanch Always |
| 06:47.48 | awilcox | whatcha mean bra? |
| 06:47.55 | awilcox | jude-: wow |
| 06:47.56 | jude- | bra is 68K for jmp |
| 06:48.13 | jude- | bra, beq, bne, ble, bge, etc |
| 06:48.21 | awilcox | Macrosoft: INT 13h = hard disk |
| 06:48.32 | awilcox | you don't have to, and frankly I try to avoid it |
| 06:48.36 | jude- | branch always, branch equal, branch not equal, branch less equal, branch greater equal, etc |
| 06:48.49 | awilcox | jude-: wow |
| 06:49.27 | Macrosoft | the problem was that none of the info i had on ASM said how to access it without the in |
| 06:49.29 | Macrosoft | t |
| 06:49.35 | Macrosoft | 13 |
| 06:49.37 | awilcox | Macrosoft: mov ax,01F7h mov cx,numberofsectors rep insw |
| 06:49.44 | jude- | lol |
| 06:49.58 | Macrosoft | rep? |
| 06:50.04 | jude- | repeat |
| 06:50.10 | awilcox | Macrosoft: REPeat until cx = 0 |
| 06:50.20 | Macrosoft | why 01f7 |
| 06:50.30 | awilcox | Macrosoft: that's the hard disk port number |
| 06:50.32 | jude- | cx (and ecx) on the x86 are traditionally used as the loop counter |
| 06:50.43 | awilcox | "C"x for "Counter" |
| 06:50.48 | awilcox | "D"x for "Data" |
| 06:50.52 | Macrosoft | but i didnt see an "in" op |
| 06:51.00 | jude- | "A"x for "Accumulator |
| 06:51.15 | awilcox | Macrosoft: rep insw assumes ax for port number, and iirc ES:DI for data |
| 06:51.24 | Macrosoft | ok |
| 06:51.29 | awilcox | jude-: it would seem neither one of us remembers what B stands for :P |
| 06:51.38 | jude- | general purpose? |
| 06:51.45 | awilcox | that's AX |
| 06:51.50 | awilcox | "A"x for "All" |
| 06:51.52 | jude- | thought that was the accumulator |
| 06:51.55 | awilcox | that's what I was taught |
| 06:52.03 | awilcox | let's see in the IA-32 books, I have them right here |
| 06:52.14 | jude- | for example, eax receives the quotent from an idiv opcode, IIRC |
| 06:53.03 | awilcox | okay from the IA-32 books |
| 06:53.12 | awilcox | EAX -- Accumulator for operands and results data |
| 06:53.17 | awilcox | EBX -- Pointer to data in the DS segment |
| 06:53.23 | awilcox | ECX -- Counter for string and loop operations |
| 06:53.27 | awilcox | EDX -- I/O pointer |
| 06:53.39 | jude- | what's it say about EPI and EDI? |
| 06:53.41 | awilcox | ESI -- Pointer to data in the segment pointed to by the DS register; source pointer for string operators |
| 06:53.50 | awilcox | s/operators/operations/ |
| 06:54.09 | awilcox | EDI -- Pointer to data (or destination) in the segment pointed to by the ES register; destination pointer for string operations |
| 06:54.22 | awilcox | ESP -- Stack pointer (in the SS segment) |
| 06:54.32 | awilcox | EBP -- Pointer to data on the stack (in the SS segment) |
| 06:54.40 | awilcox | ^ Macrosoft, hope you were taking notes :D |
| 06:54.42 | jude- | the "base pointer", iirc |
| 06:54.58 | Macrosoft | having so many specialized reg.'s is a pain |
| 06:55.07 | jude- | EBP tradionally points to local vars, yes? |
| 06:55.14 | jude- | it's been a while for me |
| 06:55.36 | awilcox | jude-: I don't normally use EBP, but it's normally where I put the C stack frame |
| 06:55.41 | jude- | i.e. it points to the base of the stack frame, and local vars are defined as offsets |
| 06:55.45 | jude- | yeah |
| 06:55.45 | jude- | that's what I thought |
| 06:56.07 | awilcox | push ebp; mov ebp,esp; |
| 06:56.12 | jude- | yeah |
| 06:56.18 | awilcox | yeah |
| 06:56.44 | jude- | Macrosoft: learn 68K. all registers are general purpose |
| 06:56.48 | awilcox | movzx ebx, byte [ebp + 8] ; put first parameter in EBX |
| 06:56.57 | awilcox | Heh. |
| 06:57.19 | awilcox | TBH, really too honest, I use e*x as general-purpose unless the instructions I'm using require me to use them as special purpose |
| 06:57.26 | jude- | same here |
| 06:57.37 | jude- | it's just annoying when you need a special-purpose instruction :) |
| 06:57.46 | awilcox | jude-: yeah :D |
| 06:57.54 | awilcox | I use the stack sometimes |
| 06:58.01 | jude- | same |
| 06:58.07 | awilcox | pusha ; bah stupid special purpose instructions |
| 06:58.11 | awilcox | mov eax,accumlations |
| 06:58.17 | awilcox | mov ecx,counter |
| 06:58.17 | awilcox | :D |
| 06:58.24 | jude- | don't forget pushf! |
| 06:58.32 | awilcox | AH! |
| 06:58.33 | jude- | :) |
| 06:58.33 | Macrosoft | flags? |
| 06:58.36 | jude- | yup |
| 06:58.37 | jude- | flag register |
| 06:58.44 | awilcox | Macrosoft: yes, the [E]FLAGS register |
| 06:58.47 | Macrosoft | like the z80 version |
| 06:58.55 | awilcox | Macrosoft: You learn fast! you |
| 06:59.02 | awilcox | 'll do great as an x86 assembler. |
| 06:59.45 | jude- | meh. movem.l (d0-d7)/(a0-a7), -(sp) |
| 06:59.53 | Macrosoft | when i did programs for z80, i had to assemble them by looking up the opcodes |
| 07:00.08 | Macrosoft | my assembler wouldnt work on my computer |
| 07:00.21 | jude- | you don't have dev8x or tasm? |
| 07:00.37 | awilcox | jude-: :O what is that mess? |
| 07:00.44 | Macrosoft | it was a while back |
| 07:00.46 | jude- | 68k equivalent of pusha |
| 07:00.52 | awilcox | :O |
| 07:01.01 | jude- | less specialized opcodes; what can I say? |
| 07:01.07 | awilcox | %macro pusha movem.l (d0-d7)/(a0-a7), -(sp) |
| 07:01.12 | jude- | lol |
| 07:01.12 | awilcox | NASM macros ftw |
| 07:01.14 | *** join/#bzflag DavidHKMrPowers (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/davidhkmrpowers) |
| 07:01.17 | awilcox | :D |
| 07:01.30 | Macrosoft | some of the opcodes are forever burned int o my mind because of it |
| 07:01.40 | Macrosoft | ret = C9 |
| 07:01.44 | awilcox | Macrosoft: Ah, opcode burn in. |
| 07:01.49 | jude- | same here, Macrosoft |
| 07:01.50 | Macrosoft | NOP = 00 |
| 07:01.57 | jude- | that's true in general |
| 07:02.03 | Macrosoft | EF = b_call |
| 07:02.11 | jude- | yup |
| 07:02.22 | awilcox | hmm |
| 07:02.57 | jude- | what I do like about the 68K is that you can specify the chunk of the register to work on from the opcode |
| 07:03.04 | jude- | i.e. move.b, move.w, move.l |
| 07:03.11 | jude- | move byte, move word, move long |
| 07:03.20 | awilcox | RETN is C3, RETF is CB, RETN imm16 is C2 im, RETF imm16 is CA im (on x86) |
| 07:03.24 | awilcox | Similar to z80, Macrosoft. |
| 07:03.44 | awilcox | jude-: gas (GNU ASembler) supports that in x86 actually |
| 07:03.48 | awilcox | movb movw movl |
| 07:04.09 | jude- | awilcox: I'm used to NASM |
| 07:04.21 | awilcox | jude-: I am too and I personally hate AT&T syntax |
| 07:04.29 | awilcox | but if you are wanting movl you can do it :) |
| 07:04.38 | jude- | indeed, AT&T makes no sense :) |
| 07:04.43 | awilcox | hehe :) |
| 07:04.53 | awilcox | jude-: :D |
| 07:04.56 | L4m3r | AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH |
| 07:05.01 | awilcox | jude-: wanting the list? |
| 07:05.02 | jude- | I thought to move 16 bits, you had to use ax instead of eax, for example |
| 07:05.05 | awilcox | I can give you linky |
| 07:05.08 | L4m3r | eek, I'm a few minutes late |
| 07:05.18 | jude- | *has |
| 07:05.20 | awilcox | jude-: oh okay :) |
| 07:05.34 | L4m3r | performing the midnight yell out loud gets you 15h of community service |
| 07:05.36 | awilcox | jude-: normally you do |
| 07:05.40 | L4m3r | IRC works :P |
| 07:05.59 | awilcox | L4m3r: 02:00 <+L4m3r> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH |
| 07:06.04 | awilcox | you're two hours late exactly |
| 07:06.10 | L4m3r | heh |
| 07:06.12 | jude- | you're 10 minutes late here |
| 07:06.17 | blast007 | 6 here |
| 07:06.24 | awilcox | jude-: Eek this is my server |
| 07:06.26 | L4m3r | 12:06 by my clocks |
| 07:06.33 | Macrosoft | yeah, its 2:08 here |
| 07:06.36 | awilcox | bah it's 03:06 on the desk clock beside me |
| 07:06.37 | L4m3r | all four... well, five, really |
| 07:06.38 | awilcox | 02:02 here |
| 07:06.51 | awilcox | my desktop is an hour and four minutes off |
| 07:06.53 | Macrosoft | central time here |
| 07:07.00 | awilcox | Macrosoft: Rofl. Eastern here. |
| 07:07.13 | Macrosoft | shreveport, La |
| 07:07.17 | awilcox | Florida. |
| 07:07.24 | awilcox | Wed Jun 13 02:03:00 EDT 2007 |
| 07:07.25 | jude- | Arizona |
| 07:07.27 | awilcox | That's not right. |
| 07:07.28 | blast007 | I live in Denial |
| 07:07.33 | awilcox | ntp ftw |
| 07:07.44 | Macrosoft | this is my summer home |
| 07:07.46 | jude- | blast007: Denial is the longest river in Africa |
| 07:07.55 | blast007 | heh |
| 07:07.56 | awilcox | blast007: San Diego? |
| 07:07.58 | Macrosoft | my main home is ay the center of the Earth |
| 07:08.08 | blast007 | awilcox: not even close |
| 07:08.25 | awilcox | blast007: Googling for "city of Denial" got me San Diego |
| 07:08.29 | blast007 | lol |
| 07:08.33 | jude- | heh |
| 07:08.35 | awilcox | :D |
| 07:08.43 | jude- | google earth? |
| 07:08.44 | Macrosoft | more opcodes: jp NN = C3NN |
| 07:08.45 | jude- | or just google? |
| 07:09.02 | blast007 | twas a reference to a Calvin & Hobbes comic ;) |
| 07:09.06 | Macrosoft | remember little endian though |
| 07:09.37 | jude- | wait--isn't the x86 big-endian? |
| 07:09.40 | blast007 | teacher asked him "What state do you live in?" and he says "Denial" |
| 07:09.47 | Macrosoft | ld (NN), A = 32NN |
| 07:09.52 | jude- | blast007: now that you mention it, I do recall :) |
| 07:10.01 | blast007 | :) |
| 07:10.34 | awilcox | JUDE-: rEGULAR gOOGLE. |
| 07:10.36 | awilcox | bAH. |
| 07:10.40 | awilcox | jude-: Regular Google. |
| 07:10.45 | jude- | I see |
| 07:10.54 | blast007 | regulaR googlE |
| 07:10.55 | awilcox | jude-: x86 = tiny tiny endian |
| 07:11.05 | jude- | huh |
| 07:11.12 | Macrosoft | i thought x86 was big endian |
| 07:11.14 | wanda | for u assembler geeks: http://groups.google.de/group/alt.machines.cnc/browse_thread/thread/890599506ada7d37/42714d8733d78423?lnk=st&q=bf+eoi+blow+fuse&rnum=1#42714d8733d78423 |
| 07:11.27 | awilcox | Oh dear. |
| 07:11.30 | awilcox | That's a long link. |
| 07:11.34 | awilcox | I have no copy/paste |
| 07:11.44 | Macrosoft | click it |
| 07:11.45 | jude- | wanda: cool |
| 07:11.56 | awilcox | Macrosoft: irssi+screen |
| 07:11.58 | awilcox | I have no X11 |
| 07:11.59 | blast007 | there it is smaller: http://tinyurl.com/38vryc |
| 07:11.59 | Macrosoft | ot opens in konqueror |
| 07:12.03 | wanda | and very old stuff .. i remembered from the days when i had to learn IBM 360 Ass |
| 07:12.04 | awilcox | blast007: THANK YOU |
| 07:12.16 | Macrosoft | ha, you said ass |
| 07:12.19 | awilcox | wanda: lol. kiss my IBM 360 |
| 07:13.06 | Macrosoft | whats with that blow all fuses op |
| 07:13.08 | Macrosoft | ?! |
| 07:13.11 | wanda | and i thought u all are youngsters |
| 07:13.31 | Macrosoft | he look at the BAF opcode at the link |
| 07:13.34 | jude- | define "young" |
| 07:13.44 | wanda | <= 50 |
| 07:13.49 | jude- | yup |
| 07:13.52 | awilcox | wanda: yep |
| 07:13.54 | blast007 | guess I'm in that range too |
| 07:14.02 | awilcox | GQS -- Go Quarter Speed |
| 07:14.07 | L4m3r | well in that case, I hope I die young :P |
| 07:14.16 | blast007 | heh |
| 07:14.17 | awilcox | I finally found the undocumented instruction Microsoft is using in Vista!!!! |
| 07:14.30 | blast007 | awilcox: this.crash() ? |
| 07:14.32 | jude- | lol: DCWPDGD Drink Coffee, Write Program, Debug, Get Drunk |
| 07:14.54 | Macrosoft | is it BAF "blow all fuses" |
| 07:15.00 | L4m3r | bad things happen when they get the order wrong |
| 07:15.10 | L4m3r | especially for that last one |
| 07:15.13 | Macrosoft | branch and link cheeseburger |
| 07:15.25 | Macrosoft | lol |
| 07:15.27 | jude- | awilcox: this.uploadCreditCardsToHQ() |
| 07:15.59 | Macrosoft | BF "belch fire" |
| 07:16.42 | Macrosoft | ha, look at their version of BRA |
| 07:16.46 | jude- | i'm in trouble: LSBL Lose Super BLock [UNIX only] |
| 07:16.59 | blast007 | PEHC Punch Extra Holes in Cards |
| 07:17.01 | wanda | my favorites was EOI // execute operator immediately and the missing RIRG read inter-record gap ...( from tapes ) |
| 07:17.03 | Macrosoft | "branch to random address" |
| 07:17.33 | Macrosoft | branch and scramble memory |
| 07:17.43 | Macrosoft | branch to oblivion |
| 07:17.54 | blast007 | MNI Misread Next Instruction |
| 07:17.56 | wanda | all from practice - non from theory, i think |
| 07:18.00 | Macrosoft | branch on tuesdays |
| 07:18.19 | Macrosoft | convert ASCII to FARSIC |
| 07:18.57 | awilcox | HCF Hang and Catch Fire |
| 07:19.01 | awilcox | ^ Scary but true |
| 07:19.05 | jude- | heh--CMD CPU Melt Down |
| 07:19.23 | Macrosoft | CHAPMR - chase pointers around machine room |
| 07:19.28 | jude- | yup |
| 07:19.38 | jude- | thanks for the link wanda :) |
| 07:19.48 | Macrosoft | compute meaning of life |
| 07:20.26 | Macrosoft | :)... create imaginary memory map |
| 07:20.46 | Macrosoft | create memory prosthesis |
| 07:21.03 | wanda | and for those who love high level language: http://www.ece.ucsb.edu/bears/personnel/astornet/humor/humor45.html |
| 07:21.55 | wanda | u should have a look to: intercal programming language |
| 07:22.18 | jude- | lol |
| 07:22.34 | jude- | even more humerous: prolog |
| 07:22.39 | Macrosoft | INTERCAL's main advantage over other programming languages is its strict |
| 07:22.39 | Macrosoft | simplicity. It has few capabilities, and thus there are few restrictions to |
| 07:22.39 | Macrosoft | be kept in mind. |
| 07:22.45 | Macrosoft | lol |
| 07:23.12 | jude- | ...and that wan't even intended to be funny :) |
| 07:23.26 | Macrosoft | but it is |
| 07:23.30 | jude- | the language, I mean |
| 07:23.32 | awilcox | DCAD -- Dump Core And Die |
| 07:23.40 | awilcox | Dang if assembly had an instruction like that |
| 07:23.45 | awilcox | no more pushing error codes! |
| 07:23.50 | awilcox | dcad error_code |
| 07:24.01 | Macrosoft | CSU Call Self Unconditional " the ultimate in |
| 07:24.02 | Macrosoft | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:24.24 | jude- | lol |
| 07:24.30 | Macrosoft | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:24.43 | Macrosoft | DBZ Divide By Zero |
| 07:24.59 | Macrosoft | ooh, heres a good one |
| 07:25.11 | Macrosoft | DC Degauss Core |
| 07:25.35 | Macrosoft | just think "stick a magnet on your computer" |
| 07:26.13 | Macrosoft | DISC DISmount CPU |
| 07:26.23 | Macrosoft | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:26.38 | jude- | hmmm...built-in gaming support :) |
| 07:26.59 | Macrosoft | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:27.24 | *** part/#bzflag trepan (n=trepan@unaffiliated/trepan) |
| 07:27.26 | awilcox | Haha. |
| 07:27.29 | Macrosoft | DSR Detonate Status Register |
| 07:27.44 | awilcox | ooh that's a mnemonic for popf |
| 07:27.51 | awilcox | :P |
| 07:28.06 | awilcox | s/mnemonic/alias/ |
| 07:28.45 | Macrosoft | AFF Add Fudge Factor |
| 07:28.53 | L4m3r | heh |
| 07:28.56 | L4m3r | I like that one |
| 07:29.16 | awilcox | \o/ |
| 07:29.37 | awilcox | If I disconnect, I'm NTPing my server |
| 07:29.42 | awilcox | 02:25 -> 03:29 |
| 07:29.44 | jude- | kk |
| 07:29.55 | Macrosoft | QSM quantum singularity mode |
| 07:30.49 | awilcox | bah |
| 07:30.55 | awilcox | I can't remember the command |
| 07:31.21 | awilcox | "ntp 129.6.15.28" doesn't work |
| 07:31.31 | Macrosoft | try ping |
| 07:31.37 | awilcox | found it |
| 07:31.38 | awilcox | ntpdate |
| 07:31.53 | awilcox | \o/ |
| 07:31.56 | awilcox | 03:31 |
| 07:32.08 | Macrosoft | 2:31 here |
| 07:32.33 | awilcox | 13 Jun 03:31:48 ntpdate [4000]: step time server 129.6.15.28 offset 3854.414571 sec |
| 07:34.17 | Macrosoft | how come undocumented opcodes are undocumented in the first place? |
| 07:34.29 | jude- | testing and debugging |
| 07:34.29 | jude- | ? |
| 07:34.43 | Macrosoft | IMU Irradiate and Mutate User |
| 07:35.25 | awilcox | Macrosoft: RDTSC and CPUID started as undocumented iirc |
| 07:35.40 | awilcox | They weren't deemed necessary for users, iirc |
| 07:35.49 | awilcox | but honestly I normally don't rc |
| 07:38.18 | Macrosoft | C++: You incidentally create a dozen instances of yourself and |
| 07:38.19 | Macrosoft | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:38.19 | Macrosoft | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:38.19 | Macrosoft | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:40.12 | jude- | lol |
| 07:40.58 | eTangenT | Macrosoft: Where are you getting these? |
| 07:41.13 | Macrosoft | the same link wanda posted earlier |
| 07:41.29 | Macrosoft | http://groups.google.de/group/alt.machines.cnc/browse_thread/thread/890599506ada7d37/42714d8733d78423?lnk=st&q=bf+eoi+blow+fuse&rnum=1 |
| 07:41.46 | eTangenT | dude, I've been at work :P |
| 07:42.17 | jude- | how'd it go? |
| 07:42.19 | Macrosoft | ?...what time is it there |
| 07:43.02 | eTangenT | it's 1:41am |
| 07:43.06 | eTangenT | my bus came 25 minutes late |
| 07:43.08 | eTangenT | I was not happy |
| 07:43.19 | eTangenT | stupid 66 route's been behind all day |
| 07:43.28 | Macrosoft | pacific time? |
| 07:43.31 | eTangenT | mountain |
| 07:43.33 | jude- | that driver won't be around for long... |
| 07:43.40 | eTangenT | jude-: the whole line |
| 07:43.42 | eTangenT | not just one bus |
| 07:43.49 | jude- | ouch |
| 07:44.10 | eTangenT | yeah |
| 07:44.13 | jude- | what's there excuse? |
| 07:44.18 | awilcox | I don't think is good practice... |
| 07:44.26 | eTangenT | and I called home because the schedule at the train station said no more trains |
| 07:44.28 | jude- | *their |
| 07:44.35 | eTangenT | well, as soon as parents get there (extremely pissed off and tired) |
| 07:44.40 | eTangenT | a friggin train shows up |
| 07:44.46 | awilcox | if(t == currtask) { if (t->sleeping) asm("hlt"); else break; } else currtask = t; |
| 07:44.55 | eTangenT | I seriously am going to call RTD tomorrow and ask WTF is up |
| 07:45.40 | awilcox | ^ *sigh* the life of a C coder |
| 07:45.42 | jude- | shiza |
| 07:47.00 | awilcox | I think I eliminated the else break; with the brackets |
| 07:47.33 | jude- | well, you'll be laughing tomorrow :) |
| 07:47.44 | awilcox | ack |
| 07:47.49 | awilcox | that hlt won't work |
| 07:47.54 | awilcox | it will wake up at the return |
| 07:48.04 | awilcox | but when it wakes up from the clock timer that code will run again |
| 07:48.07 | awilcox | it's *not* re-entrant |
| 07:48.13 | awilcox | Stupid scheduler. |
| 07:49.08 | awilcox | jude-: I doubt it will be tomorrow, more like next week |
| 07:49.09 | awilcox | :P |
| 07:49.19 | jude- | I was talking to eTangenT |
| 07:49.24 | awilcox | oh |
| 07:49.27 | jude- | sorry |
| 07:50.21 | Macrosoft | 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000C9 |
| 07:50.28 | awilcox | is that 64-bit? |
| 07:50.34 | Macrosoft | no |
| 07:50.40 | awilcox | nop;nop;...;ret? |
| 07:50.48 | Macrosoft | yeah |
| 07:51.13 | Macrosoft | a way to waste space, or reserve ram for variables |
| 07:51.51 | awilcox | Waste space -- so that's how Vista got so big! |
| 07:51.52 | awilcox | nops! |
| 07:52.00 | awilcox | "let's make it look bigger *nop*" |
| 07:52.12 | jude- | lol |
| 07:52.19 | jude- | ever seen the win98 source code? |
| 07:52.28 | jude- | lemme find the link... |
| 07:52.29 | awilcox | jude-: yeah. |
| 07:52.29 | Macrosoft | nope |
| 07:52.44 | Macrosoft | does it look like: |
| 07:52.53 | jude- | http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article388.asp |
| 07:52.55 | Macrosoft | do pointless stuff; |
| 07:53.00 | Macrosoft | crash; |
| 07:53.09 | Macrosoft | halt; |
| 07:53.46 | Macrosoft | how did they get this? |
| 07:54.05 | jude- | it's a joke |
| 07:54.23 | Macrosoft | they must be masters of win98 :) |
| 07:54.43 | awilcox | if(detect_cache()) disable_cache(); /* Microsoft patent */ |
| 07:54.46 | awilcox | :P |
| 07:54.48 | Macrosoft | hang_system(indefinitely); |
| 07:55.20 | awilcox | I'd love to know how many times "INVLD" appears in the Vista disassembly. |
| 07:55.34 | jude- | heh |
| 07:55.38 | eTangenT | Win ME source: |
| 07:55.48 | jude- | they made it illegal to do comparative benchmarking and reverse-engineering in their EULA |
| 07:55.48 | eTangenT | suck; |
| 07:55.48 | Macrosoft | //winME |
| 07:55.50 | eTangenT | halt; |
| 07:56.06 | awilcox | eTangenT: the Real WinMe source: malloc(100000000); |
| 07:56.11 | awilcox | do_win98_stuff(); |
| 07:56.15 | awilcox | malloc(10000000000); |
| 07:56.21 | awilcox | asm volatile ("hlt"); |
| 07:56.23 | awilcox | :D |
| 07:56.30 | jude- | awilcox: depending on the allocator, that may not have much effect |
| 07:56.43 | Macrosoft | suck_at_life() |
| 07:56.44 | jude- | i.e. "just in time" allocation |
| 07:56.46 | awilcox | jude-: ENOMEM at best |
| 07:57.02 | awilcox | jude-: Lol. You're suggesting that M$ wrote a JIT malloc. |
| 07:57.04 | awilcox | Ya right. |
| 07:57.20 | jude- | I'm not suggesting it; I'm tripping it :) |
| 07:57.35 | awilcox | fork() is JIT, otherwise I've never seen any libc do JIT on memory |
| 07:57.58 | jude- | I was reading about it in kerneltrap...can't remember the article |
| 07:58.13 | awilcox | Hmm. |
| 07:58.18 | Macrosoft | convert_executables_from_big_to_little_endian(); |
| 07:59.00 | Macrosoft | run_intel_in_appleG4_mode(); |
| 07:59.41 | jude- | meh. can't find it |
| 07:59.44 | jude- | but run this: |
| 07:59.46 | jude- | in linux: |
| 08:00.05 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@vpn199-014.hrz.uni-oldenburg.de) |
| 08:00.10 | jude- | for(int i = 0; i < 0xffffffff; i++) { void* p = malloc(100000); } |
| 08:00.16 | jude- | it won't crash |
| 08:00.21 | jude- | until you actually write data into p |
| 08:00.32 | jude- | s/int/unsigned int |
| 08:00.48 | jude- | that makes me think Linux has a jit allocator |
| 08:00.57 | awilcox | Maybe. |
| 08:01.02 | awilcox | wait |
| 08:01.07 | awilcox | how would you free that? |
| 08:01.08 | jude- | that's the example code I saw in the article |
| 08:01.13 | jude- | you don't |
| 08:01.15 | awilcox | you can't do free(p) |
| 08:01.21 | jude- | the code doesn't free it |
| 08:01.25 | Macrosoft | a perfect example of ms code: int a; int* b = &a; delete int a; b* = 4; |
| 08:01.27 | jude- | until you kill the process |
| 08:01.37 | jude- | you *could* |
| 08:01.37 | awilcox | jude-: Ew. bad practice! |
| 08:01.39 | awilcox | :P |
| 08:01.41 | jude- | do free(p) |
| 08:01.45 | awilcox | Macrosoft: haha |
| 08:01.54 | jude- | but that wan't in the example |
| 08:02.10 | jude- | point it, Linux won't invoke the OOM killer until you start writing stuff to those allocations |
| 08:02.22 | jude- | *wasn't |
| 08:04.17 | jude- | here we go: http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article1015.asp |
| 08:04.29 | awilcox | for(i = 0; i < 8; i++) *--sp = 0x41574F53; |
| 08:04.32 | awilcox | ack |
| 08:04.33 | awilcox | ~ww |
| 08:04.35 | ibot | Tee hee .. idiot. |
| 08:04.43 | jude- | huh |
| 08:04.44 | jude- | ? |
| 08:04.48 | awilcox | wrong window |
| 08:04.51 | awilcox | thought this was vim |
| 08:04.54 | awilcox | for(i = 0; i < 8; i++) *--sp = 0x41574F53; |
| 08:04.56 | jude- | lol |
| 08:05.07 | eTangenT | so, who's seen the XKCD comic that just went up? |
| 08:05.12 | eTangenT | funniest thing ever. |
| 08:05.23 | Macrosoft | xkcd? |
| 08:05.39 | jude- | ~xkcd |
| 08:05.50 | Macrosoft | what is it? |
| 08:05.59 | eTangenT | www.xkcd.com |
| 08:06.03 | eTangenT | web comic |
| 08:06.06 | jude- | lol |
| 08:08.29 | Macrosoft | Windows Air |
| 08:08.29 | Macrosoft | The terminal is pretty and colorful, with friendly stewards, easy baggage check and boarding, and a smooth take-off. After about 10 minutes in the air, the plane explodes with no warning whatsoever. |
| 08:08.29 | Macrosoft | Windows NT Air |
| 08:08.30 | Macrosoft | Just like Windows Air, but costs more, uses much bigger planes and takes out all the other aircraft within a 40-mile radius when it explodes. |
| 08:08.33 | jude- | heh: here's an addition to the aforementioned article |
| 08:08.33 | jude- | Windows XP Air |
| 08:08.35 | jude- | You turn up at the airport,which is under contract to only allow XP Air planes. All the aircraft are identical, brightly coloured and three times as big as they need to be. The signs are huge and all point the same way. Whichever way you go, someone pops up dressed in a cloak and pointed hat insisting you follow him. Your luggage and clothes are taken off you and replaced with an XP Air suit and suitcase identical to everyone around you as |
| 08:09.58 | jude- | better yet: |
| 08:10.06 | jude- | Linux Air |
| 08:10.07 | jude- | Disgruntled employees of all the other OS airlines decide to start their own airline. They build the planes, ticket counters, and pave the runways themselves. They charge a small fee to cover the cost of printing the ticket, but you can also download and print the ticket yourself. |
| 08:10.11 | jude- | When you board the plane, you are given a seat, four bolts, a wrench and a copy of the seat-HOWTO.html. Once settled, the fully adjustable seat is very comfortable, the plane leaves and arrives on time without a single problem, the in-flight meal is wonderful. You try to tell customers of the other airlines about the great trip, but all they can say is, "You had to do what with the seat?" |
| 08:10.42 | awilcox | jude-: Lol. |
| 08:10.45 | awilcox | Goodnight guys. |
| 08:10.51 | jude- | g'night awilcox |
| 08:11.00 | awilcox | nn jude- |
| 08:12.21 | Macrosoft | hey look, its the new ms keyboard design, optimized for what you will do the most with it: http://www.geeknewz.com/imagedb/displayimage.php?album=10&pos=1 |
| 08:13.25 | jude- | rofl |
| 08:14.25 | AWOSLappy | jude-: lolol |
| 08:14.51 | jude- | I've got better ones : |
| 08:14.51 | jude- | ) |
| 08:14.53 | jude- | :) |
| 08:15.10 | AWOSLappy | my shell over there will get them |
| 08:15.11 | AWOSLappy | nn |
| 08:16.31 | wanda | i like this tool: http://www.vanhoutens.org/hthammer.jpg // see the little display |
| 08:17.13 | jude- | lol |
| 08:17.14 | Macrosoft | Three male programmers were in the bathroom standing at the urinals. |
| 08:17.14 | Macrosoft | The first programmer finishes, walks over to the sink to wash his hands. |
| 08:17.15 | Macrosoft | He then proceeds to dry his hands very carefully. He uses paper towel after paper towel and ensures that every single spot of water on his hands is dried. |
| 08:17.15 | Macrosoft | Turning to the other two, he says, "At Microsoft, we are trained to be extremely thorough." |
| 08:17.15 | Macrosoft | The second programmer finishes his task at the urinal and he proceeds to wash his hands. He uses a single paper towel and makes sure that he dries his hands using every available portion of the paper towel. |
| 08:17.17 | Macrosoft | He turns and says, "At Intel not only are we trained to be extremely thorough but we are also trained to be extremely efficient." |
| 08:17.20 | Macrosoft | The third programmer finished and walks straight for the door, shouting over his shoulder, "At Sun, we don`t piss on our hands." |
| 08:18.29 | jude- | LOL!!! |
| 08:18.38 | jude- | that's awesome! |
| 08:18.43 | ruskie | :))) |
| 08:18.46 | purple_cow | old joke |
| 08:19.03 | purple_cow | well, you're not old ;-) |
| 08:19.08 | jude- | nor are you |
| 08:19.27 | Macrosoft | * WinErr: 01F Reserved for future mistakes of our developers. |
| 08:19.27 | purple_cow | no, but I've hung out around old people |
| 08:19.35 | jude- | lol |
| 08:19.45 | jude- | here's a true story: |
| 08:19.55 | jude- | one of the members of the local lug got a Nokia Internet Tablet |
| 08:20.10 | jude- | he's a network security admin, so he was interested in setting up a small server on it for fun |
| 08:20.14 | jude- | but do to that, you need to be root |
| 08:20.37 | jude- | so, knowing that it runs Debian, he looks around to find the necessary .debs to give him a terminal |
| 08:20.42 | jude- | (not installed by default) |
| 08:20.53 | jude- | he gets it installed using the Nokia app manager |
| 08:20.57 | jude- | as well as an xkbd |
| 08:21.04 | jude- | as well as openssh |
| 08:21.13 | jude- | unfortunately, the root password is locked |
| 08:21.19 | jude- | he reads the wiki |
| 08:21.25 | jude- | it turns out there's an easter egg |
| 08:21.33 | jude- | type in "the matrix" into the text editor, and delete it |
| 08:21.41 | jude- | you're given a choice of "red pill" and "blue pill" |
| 08:21.47 | jude- | select "red pill" to unlock root |
| 08:21.58 | jude- | he's given the chance to enter R&D mode |
| 08:21.59 | L4m3r | heh |
| 08:22.10 | jude- | giving him the chance to directly modify the firmwares on the device |
| 08:22.13 | purple_cow | which model? |
| 08:22.19 | jude- | older one |
| 08:22.30 | jude- | given that he's a security admin, he doesn't want to do that |
| 08:22.43 | jude- | so he has to ssh into his own device from the terminal to change the root password |
| 08:22.46 | jude- | so he does that |
| 08:22.56 | jude- | after he removes openssh and replaces it with dropbear |
| 08:23.03 | jude- | (root passwd is disabled in openssh) |
| 08:23.10 | jude- | so, he starts editing the init files |
| 08:23.17 | jude- | with the text editor of choice: vi |
| 08:23.31 | jude- | he picks and picks at the screen, typing in character by character |
| 08:23.39 | jude- | a few dozen lines later, he makes a discovery: |
| 08:23.45 | jude- | no escape key on the xkbd |
| 08:23.51 | jude- | meaning no saving |
| 08:24.00 | jude- | in fact, he can't even exit the terminal |
| 08:24.06 | jude- | short of killing it remotely |
| 08:24.13 | jude- | so he picks and picks at the keyboard |
| 08:24.21 | Macrosoft | looks like its time for a hard reset |
| 08:24.29 | jude- | and finally uncovers an older vi command that exits |
| 08:24.35 | jude- | which I cannot remember |
| 08:24.39 | jude- | s/I/he |
| 08:24.47 | jude- | so, he's telling us all of this at the LUG meeting |
| 08:24.49 | purple_cow | a command that exits while you're in insert mode?? |
| 08:24.55 | jude- | Ctrl+[ |
| 08:25.00 | jude- | it turns out |
| 08:25.14 | jude- | the funny part is, while we're all laughing hysterically at him |
| 08:25.26 | jude- | one of our members just looks at him like a moron and tells him that |
| 08:25.30 | jude- | the response |
| 08:25.34 | jude- | "you bastard!!!" |
| 08:25.44 | jude- | the moral of the story: |
| 08:26.05 | jude- | Linux just isn't meant for consumer power users :( |
| 08:26.28 | jude- | took him a few hours |
| 08:26.35 | jude- | bring it on :) |
| 08:26.54 | purple_cow | as tempting as it is to muck around with linux-based firmwares, it always ends in pain |
| 08:27.15 | jude- | he's just trying to administrate the system like any other linux device |
| 08:27.35 | jude- | I thought it's hysterical how many hoops Nokia set up to make its users jump through to get that far |
| 08:27.37 | purple_cow | that's just it |
| 08:27.45 | purple_cow | you think they're "any other linux device" |
| 08:28.12 | purple_cow | but there's so much custom setup, and very little way to get direct access to the system |
| 08:28.32 | jude- | well, it's Debian internally |
| 08:28.38 | jude- | just with a Nokia GUI |
| 08:28.39 | purple_cow | you can't just boot off a CD and mount the hard disk |
| 08:28.59 | jude- | meh. it was supposed to be funny |
| 08:29.27 | L4m3r | stupid phone has some memory corruption, which has made my alarm clock non-functional. |
| 08:29.40 | jude- | which device was that? |
| 08:29.55 | purple_cow | a linkstation NAS |
| 08:30.26 | jude- | did you brick it? |
| 08:31.13 | purple_cow | nope, it's happily running now |
| 08:31.21 | purple_cow | it just was very painful getting it to that state |
| 08:32.03 | jude- | how so? |
| 08:32.03 | Macrosoft | Fatal Error: Found MS-Windows System -> Repartitioning Disk for Linux... |
| 08:32.18 | purple_cow | the design of it is actually really resistant to bricking, since if it doesn't boot 3 times it'll boot off a stored copy of the stock firmware |
| 08:32.55 | jude- | nice |
| 08:33.11 | purple_cow | jude-: took about 15 hours of work to correctly get it flashed and booting |
| 08:33.35 | jude- | why would the manufactorer subject their customers to that? |
| 08:33.43 | purple_cow | and another several hours trying to get mysql set up for the particular arm CPU in there |
| 08:33.50 | Macrosoft | Microsoft: "You've got questions. We've got dancing paperclips." |
| 08:34.04 | purple_cow | the manufacturer doesn't, but I wanted to run some non-included software on it |
| 08:34.20 | jude- | ahh |
| 08:34.42 | purple_cow | the stock firmware works for almost everyone |
| 08:35.59 | purple_cow | bedtime for me |
| 08:36.08 | jude- | g'night purple_cow |
| 08:47.11 | Macrosoft | hey, is buffalo a good brand of ram |
| 08:47.55 | Macrosoft | ? |
| 08:48.00 | jude- | dunno |
| 08:48.11 | L4m3r | no |
| 08:48.12 | L4m3r | :P |
| 08:48.24 | L4m3r | if you have to ask then don't bother ;) |
| 08:48.29 | Macrosoft | what brand is good, then |
| 08:48.43 | L4m3r | Corsair, OCZ, Mushkin, Kingston, Crucial |
| 08:49.23 | L4m3r | For some reason a lot of people like Geil... they're decent for bargain ram |
| 08:49.51 | jude- | heh--DDR2 is pretty cheap these days as it is :) |
| 08:50.39 | Macrosoft | which would be best out of the 5 brands you listed above? |
| 08:50.40 | L4m3r | my last ram purchase was DDR. ouchie :( |
| 08:51.33 | L4m3r | I like Corsair and OCZ, personally, but it's more important to get the high-end "models" from whichever brand |
| 08:52.00 | L4m3r | OCZ "performance", Corsair XMS, etc- look for a deal, skip anything with "value" in its name |
| 08:52.15 | jude- | lol |
| 08:52.17 | jude- | tis true |
| 08:52.24 | L4m3r | this is of course assuming you want to tinker with overclocking or whatever |
| 08:52.53 | L4m3r | jude-: yeah. my desktop is too old, though. :( I paid $240 for 2GB of PC3200 DDR |
| 08:53.08 | jude- | you're better off saving your $$$ for your new one :) |
| 08:53.14 | L4m3r | that's later |
| 08:53.38 | L4m3r | I was running 512... my two sticks suddenly refused to work together so I had to run only one :( |
| 08:53.46 | jude- | pathetic |
| 08:53.48 | jude- | what brand? |
| 08:53.57 | L4m3r | Corsair (?!) |
| 08:54.10 | jude- | did you demand a refund or explanation? |
| 08:54.24 | L4m3r | XMS, even. I think it was the mobo, though. I had read something about my particular model being finicky about ram |
| 08:54.39 | jude- | there's that too |
| 08:54.58 | L4m3r | it had issues when I built it, but I finished it as I was moving into my dorm freshman year. I could have RMA'd but that would leave me without a computer |
| 08:55.37 | L4m3r | if you run your system at stock anything should work ok |
| 08:55.42 | L4m3r | at least at first :) |
| 08:55.52 | jude- | heh |
| 08:55.56 | jude- | "at stock" |
| 08:56.07 | ruskie | and using another lifetime warranty with no issues ram as well |
| 08:56.11 | ruskie | don't recall the name though |
| 08:56.43 | jude- | hmmm...HP is selling a workstation that supports up to two quad-core Xeon processors and 16 GB RAM... |
| 08:57.39 | ruskie | L4m3r, I need stability not so much performance... as long as I can run bzflag I'm more or less happy :) |
| 08:58.00 | L4m3r | jude-: is it cheaper than an eight-core Mac Pro? lol |
| 08:58.11 | jude- | how much is the 8-core Mac Proc? |
| 08:58.27 | jude- | *Pro |
| 08:58.52 | Macrosoft | 14k |
| 08:59.03 | jude- | LOL!!! |
| 08:59.09 | jude- | It's cheaper almost by an order of magnitude! |
| 08:59.13 | jude- | 2K |
| 08:59.13 | Macrosoft | way too much for me |
| 08:59.16 | L4m3r | lol |
| 08:59.31 | L4m3r | though the mac is a core, not a xeon, I think |
| 08:59.47 | Macrosoft | if you get all the good features, it comes to about $14000 |
| 09:02.34 | jude- | ...anyway, I'm probably going to spend some of my google money building a new PC...any good vendors (besides newegg) come to mind? |
| 09:03.16 | jude- | i.e. for parts? |
| 09:03.21 | Macrosoft | i found some corsair ram that should work on my system for 77.99 |
| 09:04.08 | jude- | stupid question, but...AMD or Intel? |
| 09:04.24 | jude- | I've heard AMD's microcode is more efficient |
| 09:04.34 | Macrosoft | it doesnt matter, its really just a matter of opinion |
| 09:04.34 | jude- | but Intel has the advantage in horizontal integration |
| 09:05.23 | jude- | are there any mobos that support both chips? |
| 09:05.30 | jude- | (another stupid question) |
| 09:05.48 | jude- | I've heard something about Intel allowing AMD chips to work with their bridges... |
| 09:05.52 | jude- | recently |
| 09:06.12 | Macrosoft | i thought they were compat. with each other |
| 09:06.24 | jude- | nope |
| 09:06.28 | jude- | different CPU sockets |
| 09:06.31 | jude- | till recently |
| 09:06.46 | jude- | by "recently", it may even mean "still in R&D" |
| 09:07.05 | L4m3r | probably Intel trying to move further into the chipset market |
| 09:07.13 | jude- | heh |
| 09:07.21 | jude- | they're the Microsoft of the chip-maker world :P |
| 09:07.25 | L4m3r | nVidia has little competition for AMD mobo chipsets |
| 09:07.33 | L4m3r | VIA doesn't count :P |
| 09:07.36 | jude- | lol |
| 09:07.52 | jude- | wait--I thought AMD was more willing to put in ATI support over NVIDIA? |
| 09:07.54 | L4m3r | Intel is a helluvalot more competent than Microsoft is |
| 09:07.59 | jude- | that's true |
| 09:08.05 | jude- | I was referring to size and tactics |
| 09:08.12 | jude- | well, some tactics |
| 09:08.12 | L4m3r | ah, yes, there is xfire too |
| 09:09.33 | jude- | any mobos you know of that take opterons? |
| 09:09.45 | jude- | that'd be a cool feature |
| 09:09.54 | jude- | no northbridge limitation |
| 09:11.31 | Macrosoft | theres still limitation, but now its just built into one chip |
| 09:11.37 | Macrosoft | :) |
| 09:12.04 | jude- | not so much... |
| 09:13.44 | jude- | "The Opteron processor possesses an integrated DDR SDRAM / DDR2 SDRAM(Socket F) memory controller. This both reduces the latency penalty for accessing the main RAM and eliminates the need for a separate northbridge chip." |
| 09:14.56 | jude- | hmmm...built-in support for 8-way configs... |
| 09:15.15 | L4m3r | ack, why am I still up? |
| 09:15.27 | L4m3r | and I haven't figured out how to wake up tomorrow |
| 09:15.30 | jude- | and they managed to use a switching fabric (i.e. cross-bar system) instead of a shared buss |
| 09:15.33 | jude- | *bus |
| 09:15.39 | Macrosoft | good question, i should be sleeping |
| 09:15.41 | L4m3r | cellphone alarm clock is dead, so... >_< |
| 09:15.57 | Macrosoft | i have to get up in 3 hours |
| 09:16.06 | jude- | Macrosoft: why are you still awake? :) |
| 09:16.12 | Macrosoft | and i still havent gone to sleep |
| 09:16.35 | L4m3r | oooh! |
| 09:16.52 | L4m3r | my shoqbox! that has an alarm clock in it! |
| 09:16.54 | L4m3r | whew |
| 09:17.00 | L4m3r | than God for woot.com :P |
| 09:17.04 | L4m3r | thank* |
| 09:17.05 | jude- | lol |
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| 09:18.49 | L4m3r | no, where can I put this? hm... |
| 09:19.19 | L4m3r | bed does have power, but nowhere to rest the alarm clock... |
| 09:19.36 | L4m3r | desk is in the opposite corner of the room and I don't want to piss off roommates... |
| 09:19.42 | KTL | with strips against the ceiling |
| 09:20.19 | jude- | L4m3r: if its on the opposite side of the room, you'll wake up faster :) |
| 09:20.26 | jude- | you'll have to get out of bed and turn it off |
| 09:23.11 | Macrosoft | holy <explative>, batman!!! |
| 09:24.13 | Macrosoft | ... |
| 09:25.11 | jude- | g'night Macrosoft |
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| 13:05.40 | delusional_ | I "Might" know what's causing the man2html manpage converter to incorrectly convert bzw5.in .... the copyright info at the top of bzw.5.in is exactly 13 lines long, and is skipped by the converter |
| 13:06.07 | delusional_ | every time more data is skipped by the converter, exactly 13 lines are skipped |
| 13:07.29 | delusional_ | maybe the copyright header needs manpage code? |
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| 13:50.33 | delusional_ | I have no clue of manpage code, but it seems to me that lines 12 and 13 should be moved to line 1 |
| 13:52.03 | delusional_ | in bzw.5.in |
| 13:53.33 | brlcad | lines that start with .\" are comment lines |
| 13:56.00 | delusional_ | in any case... my plan is to correct the 4 manpages and upload to the wiki, here's a corrected bzw manpage http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/564123 there were 11 cases of 13 lines being skipped |
| 13:56.43 | brlcad | those should be ignored by anything that reads manpages correctly |
| 13:57.05 | brlcad | they are "correct" according to man(7) |
| 13:57.17 | brlcad | "The first command in a man page (after comment lines) should be .TH" ... |
| 13:57.45 | brlcad | that would be a bug in man2html |
| 13:58.59 | Manu | yes, it's right |
| 14:02.01 | delusional_ | I don't see an instance of .TH in bzw.5.in |
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| 20:32.18 | Winny | I love how BZFlag servers literally seem to hate new players. |
| 20:32.24 | Winny | They cannot make them work. :p |
| 20:35.30 | Winny | ugh, more wiki spam |
| 20:36.28 | JeffM | players can't make the servers work, or servers don't make the players work? :) |
| 20:37.47 | Winny | JeffM, built in security measures preventing anyone with a low IQ from running one? :) |
| 20:37.56 | JeffM | indeed |
| 20:38.06 | JeffM | tho to some extent the client does that for players too |
| 20:39.19 | donny_baker | I also think we are catching them at an earlier age... some of these kids trying to set up servers are 9 and 10 years old |
| 20:39.25 | donny_baker | or at least they act like it |
| 20:39.40 | JeffM | I'd make the list server have an aplication process :) |
| 20:40.19 | Winny | "please listen to this audio clip them type it out in ENLGISH! |
| 20:40.21 | JeffM | have all others done with a manual addy type |
| 20:40.32 | JeffM | no a real application process not a joke |
| 20:40.44 | JeffM | where the server is checked, runs global auth, etc.. |
| 20:40.48 | Winny | JeffM, I know |
| 20:40.51 | Winny | oh |
| 20:41.09 | Winny | but that could be a application question ;) |
| 20:41.18 | JeffM | there would be more then one |
| 20:42.30 | JeffM | "if your server is setup similar to other servers what would make users pick it over existing servers?" |
| 20:42.38 | JeffM | a) It offsets load on full servers |
| 20:42.47 | JeffM | b) It has more bandwith then existing servers |
| 20:42.57 | JeffM | c) I admin it . |
| 20:43.00 | JeffM | d) other |
| 20:43.09 | JeffM | if C is picked, the app gets canned :) |
| 20:43.16 | donny_baker | e) Myne is K00l3r |
| 20:43.35 | Winny | f) I CN TLK WDTHUT VWLS LL |
| 20:43.51 | JeffM | that's why there is an other |
| 20:44.10 | donny_baker | oh didn't think that applied to ME ;) |
| 20:48.39 | awilcox | Winny: You have a 'u' in 'wdthut' |
| 20:48.47 | awilcox | you can't talk without vowels lol |
| 20:48.48 | Winny | whoops |
| 20:49.23 | awilcox | :D |
| 20:50.02 | awilcox | JeffM: Bah, picking C doesn't imply the person is too young. It just implies that the person has a big ego. |
| 20:50.23 | JeffM | awilcox, I never said anything about being too young |
| 20:50.41 | JeffM | if you have a big ego, I'd not want your server regardless of your age |
| 20:50.53 | awilcox | 16:39 < donny_baker> I also thing we are catching them at an earlier age... some of these kids trying to set up servers are 9 and 10 years old |
| 20:50.55 | JeffM | hosting a server in the public list is like donaintg to the project :) |
| 20:51.06 | awilcox | JeffM: Oh. |
| 20:51.11 | JeffM | awilcox, and my name is donny_baker now? |
| 20:51.15 | awilcox | JeffM: Bah. |
| 20:51.24 | JeffM | awilcox, double bah! |
| 20:51.28 | awilcox | Triple bah! |
| 20:51.33 | awilcox | with chocolate swirls! |
| 20:52.08 | Winny | awilcox wins! |
| 20:52.44 | awilcox | Winny :D |
| 20:52.59 | awilcox | query Winny please play with me. bzf.bzflag.org port 5154 |
| 20:53.03 | awilcox | er, bah. |
| 20:53.07 | awilcox | /query |
| 20:53.12 | Winny | working on some stuff |
| 20:53.25 | awilcox | Okay Winny... |
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| 21:18.46 | brlcad | L4m3r: yeah, a *really* long lunch ;) |
| 21:19.44 | brlcad | i'd not forgotten nor think it's "okay" nor something to get all up in arms about either .. he's not the first or the last until the list server actually prevents it |
| 21:20.59 | brlcad | most cut it out after a few days.. if it becomes a real problem, we can take it to the "next level", whatever that means |
| 21:24.25 | *** join/#bzflag thefirstdude (n=inferno@75-163-22-160.dlth.qwest.net) |
| 21:24.28 | awilcox | brlcad: "next level" == banz0r! |
| 21:25.01 | awilcox | Bah, it's so hard to not put the @ in front of people. |
| 21:25.24 | brlcad | @awilcox, it is? |
| 21:25.42 | awilcox | @brlcad: for ops. |
| 21:26.02 | awilcox | I mean my client shows 17:20 <@brlcad> most cut it out after a few days |
| 21:26.12 | awilcox | so naturally I want to respond to "@brlcad". |
| 21:33.52 | brlcad | <@awilcox> I know what you meant :) |
| 21:34.08 | awilcox | Oh hehe :) |
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| 21:46.30 | jude- | hello all |
| 21:46.41 | brlcad | howdy jude- |
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| 21:55.16 | awilcox | Hey jude- |
| 21:55.35 | tannerld | Mike Hunt spam alert :P |
| 21:57.34 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@dyndsl-085-016-008-217.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 21:57.40 | jude- | looking at the mesh object, do multiple instances to matref still blend the features of materials already referenced, or does a new matref just change the active material? |
| 21:57.51 | jude- | i.e. for setting the materials of faces |
| 22:00.00 | jude- | looking at other maps, I'd guess it's the latter |
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| 22:08.44 | blast007 | brlcad: you around? |
| 22:12.08 | tannerld | ~JeffM++ |
| 22:14.24 | JeffM | god now I remember how much I hate IE |
| 22:15.31 | brad | Most users ever online was 284 on Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:12 am |
| 22:15.35 | brad | is that correct? |
| 22:15.52 | brad | (on bzbb) |
| 22:15.52 | thefirstdude | ever get the ie has blocked your download for security reasons :P |
| 22:16.03 | blast007 | thefirstdude: yeah, I love that |
| 22:16.40 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r14327 10/trunk/admin/master-bans.txt: |
| 22:16.40 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 82.17.105.69 MIKE KUNT, PETER, Catoblepas |
| 22:16.40 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: spamming, public service abuse. |
| 22:16.54 | thefirstdude | it sucks when you have to wait for a timer etc. |
| 22:17.12 | thefirstdude | PETER is banned? |
| 22:17.15 | JeffM | yes |
| 22:17.22 | JeffM | at least the IP he posts on uses |
| 22:17.24 | thefirstdude | huh, he made maps etc. |
| 22:17.32 | JeffM | so? |
| 22:17.54 | thefirstdude | nothing like getting banned from a game you added maps to |
| 22:18.17 | JeffM | if he didn't want to get banned, he shouldn't have spammed the boards using the name "MIKE HUNT" |
| 22:18.19 | *** join/#bzflag tupone (n=atupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 22:18.19 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v tupone] by ChanServ |
| 22:21.35 | jude- | thefirstdude: that won't matter soon enough |
| 22:21.44 | JeffM | yeah |
| 22:21.56 | JeffM | that'd be the second time he's said that, no more deals |
| 22:23.42 | JeffM | he had his warnings, and chances. |
| 22:27.43 | *** join/#bzflag bujkyl (n=heath@c-71-207-245-33.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 22:29.30 | CBG | mike hunt == PETER? wow |
| 22:29.45 | JeffM | same IP |
| 22:29.49 | JeffM | same mail host |
| 22:30.51 | CBG | well, thanks for sorting that out, JeffM |
| 22:30.57 | JeffM | it wasn't too hard |
| 22:31.11 | CBG | Well, you had to come out of retirement :) |
| 22:31.25 | JeffM | I never said I'd quit doing bzbb admin |
| 22:31.33 | JeffM | just that I'd not be active in it as much |
| 22:31.33 | CBG | Oh? Ok, my bad. |
| 22:31.45 | CBG | Well, it's appreciated, is all I'm saying. |
| 22:31.50 | JeffM | your welcome |
| 22:32.17 | JeffM | I did feel it was somewhat my fault as I had sent "mke" a PM saying his "SAY MY NAME OUT LOUD" post was not good |
| 22:32.27 | JeffM | and that sent him off on that |
| 22:33.00 | CBG | Eh, if he did it because of one PM, he wouldda done it soon anyway.. |
| 22:33.10 | JeffM | it was more then one |
| 22:33.16 | JeffM | as he can't have the last word |
| 22:33.29 | JeffM | but yeah |
| 22:33.37 | JeffM | he's had issues posting as peter |
| 22:33.41 | JeffM | he just dosn't get it |
| 22:33.48 | CBG | yup |
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| 22:40.09 | Macrosoft | anyone here use mandriva? |
| 22:42.38 | jude- | used it for a bit, but switched to Debian |
| 22:44.40 | Macrosoft | is there any way to repair an installation |
| 22:44.41 | Macrosoft | ? |
| 22:44.51 | Macrosoft | i dont want to lose all my data |
| 22:45.16 | jude- | define "repair" |
| 22:45.18 | jude- | what's wrong? |
| 22:45.46 | JeffM | install but don't format |
| 22:45.50 | TimRiker | mv /lib /nowmymachineiscompletelybroken |
| 22:45.51 | JeffM | that won't blow out our home dir |
| 22:46.24 | Macrosoft | i tried installing without formatting, wouldnt start |
| 22:46.48 | JeffM | what data don't you want to loose? |
| 22:46.53 | TimRiker | ok, don't actually do that mv or your machine will be broken. (in case you didn't realise that) |
| 22:46.53 | JeffM | your home dir? |
| 22:46.58 | Macrosoft | i mean, it installed, but it wouldnt boot |
| 22:47.11 | JeffM | at the boot loader level? |
| 22:47.19 | JeffM | or did it geek starting up? |
| 22:47.24 | jude- | describe to us te symptoms |
| 22:47.29 | JeffM | is the drive even good? |
| 22:48.10 | Macrosoft | yes, i had just screwed up kde settings: refresh rate out of sync |
| 22:48.49 | JeffM | indeed |
| 22:48.50 | Macrosoft | oops, mean refresh rate out of monitorls range |
| 22:48.54 | JeffM | fix them in a terminal then |
| 22:48.58 | Macrosoft | how? |
| 22:49.03 | jude- | nano /etc/X11/xorg.conf |
| 22:49.03 | JeffM | if you dont' know how to do that, then the channel for your OS is best |
| 22:49.06 | Macrosoft | what conf files |
| 22:49.11 | JeffM | the X ones |
| 22:49.17 | JeffM | use one of the other terminals |
| 22:49.24 | jude- | (as root) |
| 22:49.26 | JeffM | the non X ones |
| 22:49.36 | jude- | i.e. Ctrl+Alt+F1 |
| 22:50.00 | JeffM | it's basic nix stuff, if your not realy familar with that, then you should go learn up more on it in the appropriate places. |
| 22:50.12 | Macrosoft | hold on, be back in 15m |
| 22:50.23 | JeffM | no we will not |
| 22:50.34 | JeffM | we gots other stuff to do :) |
| 22:50.56 | JeffM | jude-, did those maps help you see how stuff was used? |
| 22:51.16 | jude- | yes |
| 22:51.21 | jude- | thanks for pointing them out :) |
| 22:51.25 | JeffM | sure |
| 22:51.31 | jude- | ~JeffM++ |
| 22:51.42 | JeffM | they'd look at lot better if there was a better lighting model :( |
| 22:52.13 | jude- | don't be so modest; it's a fun game :) |
| 22:52.19 | JeffM | cus in a world with flying tanks, noone can aford a light bulb :) |
| 22:53.33 | JeffM | playablilty |
| 22:53.46 | JeffM | and few mapers "get" the 2.0 stuff |
| 22:53.53 | jude- | those maps you showed me were incredible |
| 22:53.54 | JeffM | so most maps are still made with bzedit |
| 22:53.55 | jude- | oh |
| 22:54.06 | jude- | heh |
| 22:54.22 | jude- | yeah, some BZW2 features are...confusing |
| 22:54.27 | JeffM | indeed |
| 22:55.24 | CBG | there are different "levels" to bzw2 stuff |
| 22:55.26 | CBG | materials, physics, "meshboxes", etc... all pretty easy if you're hand-coding. |
| 22:55.29 | *** join/#bzflag bier__ (n=bier@p54A53B6A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:55.40 | JeffM | the meshes that louman does, are harder for people |
| 22:55.41 | CBG | but after that you have real meshes, LODs, etc which is a-whole-nother step up |
| 22:55.57 | CBG | a lot of mappers still just use bzedit... |
| 22:56.14 | CBG | not many go beyond that, and very very few get onto the real "hardcore" stuff |
| 22:56.17 | JeffM | there isn't realy one |
| 22:56.24 | JeffM | LOD was a trepan only thing |
| 22:56.24 | jude- | even louman's maps you showed me didn't use them |
| 22:56.27 | JeffM | yeah |
| 22:56.27 | jude- | heh |
| 22:56.39 | JeffM | there was never a tool released to make the LOD info |
| 22:56.41 | CBG | jude-: If I understand "LOD" correctly, LouMan used it in a chruch/graveyeard map |
| 22:56.46 | CBG | ghosts or something... |
| 22:56.57 | jude- | where can I find that? |
| 22:57.00 | CBG | and delusion is the only other guy I know who has any clue what it is. |
| 22:57.05 | *** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=emp@unaffiliated/rob1n) |
| 22:57.17 | CBG | dunno, search the server list for "church" or "graveyard" I guess, by LouMan |
| 22:57.19 | JeffM | it should be in the map releases fourm |
| 22:57.25 | CBG | or he probably released it on the bzb |
| 22:57.26 | JeffM | he posts his maps usualy |
| 22:57.27 | CBG | bzbb* |
| 22:57.32 | CBG | yeah, :) |
| 22:57.43 | CBG | ~LouMan++ |
| 22:57.51 | jude- | kk |
| 22:57.56 | jude- | brb |
| 22:58.48 | JeffM | if not, send him a PM, he's very cool about reasonable requests. |
| 22:59.31 | CBG | LouMan is very cool. :) |
| 23:01.16 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 23:07.49 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (n=QuantumB@doc-24-32-46-104.leesville.la.cebridge.net) |
| 23:07.51 | rob1n | ~seen LouMan |
| 23:07.54 | ibot | louman <n=42bc3c6b@bz.bzflag.bz> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 410d 23h 59m 6s ago, saying: ''had' a patch - past tense?'. |
| 23:08.59 | SpazzyMcGee | IIRC, trepan did the drawinfo stuff for louman. I may be wrong. |
| 23:09.43 | SpazzyMcGee | It's used in the trees, i think. |
| 23:10.31 | JeffM | oh then that's trepans's trees |
| 23:10.43 | JeffM | there is a tree model that has LOD that is hangin around |
| 23:11.56 | SpazzyMcGee | I think it was the trees - I remember delusion adding angvel to them... an interesting sight. |
| 23:16.42 | CBG | yeah, my bad about the ghosts - they aren't LOD. sorry. |
| 23:16.59 | CBG | I must heard about ghosts and LOD on that map and got confused... |
| 23:17.10 | JeffM | trepan mentioned there were some LODed trees hangin about. |
| 23:19.46 | SpazzyMcGee | They use louman's textures - I expect louman asked trepan for them as an example or something. |
| 23:19.46 | jude- | aha |
| 23:20.05 | SpazzyMcGee | I think the bushes are possibly too. |
| 23:21.05 | JeffM | they have a low face count |
| 23:21.16 | JeffM | LOD to save 2 faces, isn't realy worth it |
| 23:21.40 | SpazzyMcGee | So do trees. probabbly <20 polys. |
| 23:22.37 | SpazzyMcGee | Just a brown cone with some textured plains sticking out |
| 23:22.40 | JeffM | if they are the tree's I'm thinkin of, they have more |
| 23:22.57 | JeffM | maybe it was just a sample he did |
| 23:24.17 | *** join/#bzflag Ostrogoth (n=keith721@adsl-074-245-045-054.sip.clt.bellsouth.net) |
| 23:24.58 | SpazzyMcGee | the tree in question: http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/884/loutreejv3.jpg |
| 23:25.15 | JeffM | that is simple |
| 23:25.22 | JeffM | billboarding it could save some |
| 23:25.31 | SpazzyMcGee | However it is lod |
| 23:25.42 | SpazzyMcGee | I checked the code. |
| 23:25.45 | JeffM | probalby out to a single bilboard face |
| 23:25.52 | JeffM | can you send that code to jude- ? |
| 23:26.21 | jude- | please? |
| 23:26.53 | SpazzyMcGee | yeah, just a sec |
| 23:27.18 | jude- | thanks :) |
| 23:28.22 | Ostrogoth | Hi there - if Tim's around, will the photo galleries at rikers.org be available anytime soon? |
| 23:28.52 | SpazzyMcGee | man, pastebin's slow |
| 23:28.54 | SpazzyMcGee | http://pastebin.ca/565308 |
| 23:29.55 | SpazzyMcGee | oh, and this too: http://pastebin.ca/565313 |
| 23:30.27 | jude- | cool! thanks! |
| 23:30.32 | jude- | ~SpazzyMcGee++ |
| 23:30.54 | SpazzyMcGee | It seems much effort for something that can be dashed off a modeler in 3 secs, but there you go. |
| 23:31.14 | jude- | thank you |
| 23:31.20 | SpazzyMcGee | np |
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| 23:32.16 | findlay | SpazzyMcGee: I prefer paste.lisp.org, myself |
| 23:33.17 | Tedius | here is the relevant forum post: |
| 23:33.19 | Tedius | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=10424&highlight=tristrips |
| 23:34.12 | Tedius | good, heres another I have bookmarked: |
| 23:34.14 | Tedius | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=5031&highlight=lod |
| 23:34.25 | jude- | thanks Tedius |
| 23:34.27 | jude- | ~Tedius++ |
| 23:34.31 | Tedius | ooh |
| 23:34.37 | Tedius | ~karma Tedius |
| 23:34.37 | ibot | tedius has karma of 1 |
| 23:34.40 | Tedius | :) |
| 23:35.01 | tannerld | ~Tedius++ |
| 23:35.11 | tannerld | s/1/2 |
| 23:35.41 | a_meteorite | at what point can you make a plaque instead of a simple printout? |
| 23:35.55 | a_meteorite | *printout on the wall |
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| 23:41.53 | JeffM | SpazzyMcGee, that's not using LOD, that' using a fan. |
| 23:42.22 | JeffM | ether that or that's not all the code |
| 23:42.52 | JeffM | actualy it's just some group instances in other groups |
| 23:43.06 | jude- | well, it was still useful |
| 23:43.15 | SpazzyMcGee | The quads use a lod |
| 23:43.26 | JeffM | then where is the code for the quads :) |
| 23:43.34 | SpazzyMcGee | Did I not post it? |
| 23:43.42 | JeffM | and remember just having drawinfo dosn't mean it's using LOD |
| 23:43.46 | JeffM | no it's just 22 lines |
| 23:43.54 | SpazzyMcGee | Yeah, i know. |
| 23:44.00 | JeffM | there is no geometry there |
| 23:44.12 | JeffM | just calls to 3 group instances |
| 23:44.19 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:44.25 | JeffM | then some scales |
| 23:44.27 | SpazzyMcGee | JeffM: I posted two... |
| 23:44.28 | SpazzyMcGee | http://pastebin.ca/565308 |
| 23:44.38 | JeffM | ahh there it goes :) |
| 23:44.41 | SpazzyMcGee | heh |
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| 23:44.59 | JeffM | nevermind :) |
| 23:45.07 | SpazzyMcGee | heh |
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