| 00:00.43 | CBG | yep |
| 00:01.00 | rob1n | slashnet seems kind of dead |
| 00:01.41 | brlcad | it's been long discussed of why the hell they picked slashnet over freenode |
| 00:02.08 | brlcad | post to their bulletin board if you want to see it different next year (and explain why, reasons why it matters) |
| 00:02.26 | brlcad | at http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-discuss |
| 00:03.07 | CBG | brlcad: just blurt out "I appreciate you allowing bzflag to participate in GSoC..." ? |
| 00:03.32 | Winny | CBG: gotta use puppy dog eyes too |
| 00:03.37 | brlcad | maybe a little more tactually than that -- or perhaps message lh in private |
| 00:04.16 | brlcad | and/or include reasons "why" you appreciate it .. bzflag specifically |
| 00:04.42 | CBG | heh, then maybe I'm not the guy to do this |
| 00:04.43 | brlcad | why should google effectively "give us money" over one of the other 200,000 projects on sourceforge, for example |
| 00:05.10 | Winny | brlcad: sorry if I missed it, but why did they pick BZ? |
| 00:05.29 | TimRiker | Winny: best you ask them to get the real answer. |
| 00:05.41 | brlcad | or just a gentle message that you appreciate them allowing bz to participate in itself would probably be appreciated, just don't annoy the @'s ;) |
| 00:05.46 | Winny | TimRiker, ok. |
| 00:06.00 | TimRiker | BZFlag is used by a some university programs as a teaching tool. I expect that has something to do with it. |
| 00:06.11 | CBG | brlcad: Pfft! Would I _EVER_ do such a thing?!? :) |
| 00:07.54 | brlcad | I talked and interacted one-on-one with the gsoc admins for several weeks before putting in the official application |
| 00:08.41 | brlcad | they'd never really considered a game applying or being approved before then, and the educational/academic reasons were a major factor |
| 00:09.54 | brlcad | bz's ability to show significant impact in the area of AI in particular was long-discussed |
| 00:11.57 | brlcad | bz's ability to show impact from sheer popularity and visibility in itself was another major factor (the fact that everyone knows bzflag, posterchild of open source gaming, extensive sustained popularity, large user base, etc) |
| 00:12.45 | Winny | ah, ok. |
| 00:12.47 | brlcad | you'll notice 90% of the "organizations" approved are exceptionally well-known |
| 00:13.51 | Winny | thanks for zee information, once again. |
| 00:16.46 | tannerld | google selects the projects that are in GSOC? |
| 00:17.06 | rob1n | tannerld, of course |
| 00:17.17 | tannerld | heh |
| 00:17.51 | Hannibal | well, yeah, right? |
| 00:19.37 | CBG | "thought programs applied to it and google selected them" == "google selects the projects that are in GSOC" |
| 00:19.49 | CBG | selected == selects if you ignore tense |
| 00:26.54 | JeffM | you didn't tell it how many to stop at? |
| 00:27.23 | brlcad | heh, it aint that good an interface |
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| 00:27.46 | JeffM | ah, non tivo |
| 00:28.19 | brlcad | all in this time slot or all at any time |
| 00:28.35 | brlcad | it's not that it didn't stop -- even if it did have that option, i'd probably have let it go... |
| 00:28.48 | JeffM | ewwww. timeslot.. |
| 00:28.50 | JeffM | not even show name |
| 00:29.17 | brlcad | it's just knowing that there's almost a solid week of non-stop CSI-viewing ... a blessing/curse |
| 00:29.38 | brlcad | oh, it does show name .. show name in a given time slot or show name any time of day |
| 00:30.17 | brlcad | i finished watching all of voyager that way just a week or so ago, so was "shopping" for a new show to catch all of |
| 00:31.08 | brlcad | spike tv had a special "best of CSI" over the weekend, so it was a lot of shows |
| 00:31.27 | brlcad | oh, dresden's already on my list .. but that's only like 6 shows so far and I've seen them all |
| 00:31.39 | Winny | 24 |
| 00:31.45 | brlcad | i fear they may cancel that one for some reason |
| 00:31.50 | Winny | is the best show ever* |
| 00:32.45 | brlcad | never got into 24, even after seeing much of the first season |
| 00:33.43 | KTL | what is going to happen with lost? |
| 00:33.44 | Winny | IMHO, last season what much better then this one |
| 00:33.46 | brlcad | was often too predictable for my taste .. too many "why the hell are you [whatever it is he's doing]" questions that were there just to fill the plot line |
| 00:34.36 | Winny | I think season 5 jst finsihed... watch 4, it wasn't that predictable |
| 00:34.58 | Winny | or maybe it was 6..hm |
| 00:35.47 | brlcad | it's a careful balance -- it can be too predictably "random" (i.e. absurdly implausible) too |
| 00:37.04 | brlcad | i also generally like shows that stand on their own feet, instead of soap opera dramas (Heroes being an exception) |
| 00:37.33 | Winny | what about house? |
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| 00:44.04 | brlcad | bleh |
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| 01:44.55 | rob1n | house is just a doctor being an ass to everybody |
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| 02:02.00 | Winny_AFK | rob1n, which is awesome |
| 02:07.21 | CBG | House is alright. The american show I _REALLY_ dig is Prison Break |
| 02:07.25 | CBG | zomg. luvit. |
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| 04:59.40 | jude- | hello all |
| 05:00.23 | jude- | two more hours till the start of GSoC!!! Woohoo! |
| 05:00.31 | Hannibal | heh |
| 05:00.46 | Hannibal | just hit midnight here |
| 05:01.03 | jude- | don't rub it in |
| 05:01.08 | jude- | :) |
| 05:01.54 | Hannibal | you out west? |
| 05:02.02 | jude- | Arizona |
| 05:02.13 | Hannibal | eh, west enought. |
| 05:02.14 | Hannibal | wnough |
| 05:02.18 | Hannibal | enough*** |
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| 05:55.55 | jude- | ONE HOUR TILL GSOC STARTS! WOOHOO! |
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| 06:54.23 | jude- | WOOHOO!!! TIME TO START CODING!!! |
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| 07:02.17 | purple_cow | jude-: go get 'em |
| 07:03.19 | brlcad | :) |
| 07:04.14 | jude- | already started |
| 07:04.22 | jude- | global menu is done |
| 07:04.26 | jude- | world options dialog is done |
| 07:04.36 | jude- | working on database-like data modeling scheme now |
| 07:05.10 | jude- | purple_cow: thanks for your feedback on my specs |
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| 07:21.43 | brlcad | jude-: I don't think most would disagree about it being a hack |
| 07:22.22 | brlcad | that is .. some aspects of the current/new .bzw format being a bit of a crutch because it was easier to first add them directly/manually than have the client do anything automatic intelligently |
| 07:23.13 | brlcad | you could, of course, make those intelligent mods, but it's a bit secondary to the more pressing need for a portable/maintainable editor in itself that is easy enough to use ;) |
| 07:24.18 | brlcad | oh, and I should have the basic administrativia sorted out later today hopefully (regardinging the task breakdown and progress checkups) |
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| 07:28.09 | jude- | kk |
| 07:28.43 | jude- | I've already set up a development blog at bzworkbench.wordpress.com |
| 07:28.50 | jude- | at purple_cow's recommendation |
| 07:29.42 | jude- | it contains the project specs, including task priorities |
| 07:29.52 | jude- | as you will see, intelligent mods are priority 2 |
| 07:32.11 | jude- | the only real complaint I have about bzw 2.0 (I'm not in a position to complain about its format, as I have put forth zero effort to improving it) is that it's very difficult to find out what each keyword does |
| 07:34.11 | purple_cow | jude-: man bzw |
| 07:34.26 | jude- | purple_cow: been there. Not enough info |
| 07:34.35 | jude- | I've been reading the map loading source code for my info these days |
| 07:34.44 | DTRemenak | http://my.bzflag.org/w/ |
| 07:34.50 | jude- | DTRemenak, also been there |
| 07:34.58 | DTRemenak | if there's something useful that's not documented there...well, it's a wiki... ;) |
| 07:34.59 | jude- | not everything's covered, unfortunately :( |
| 07:35.15 | jude- | I'll make sure to add all the documentation I can in my project |
| 07:35.22 | jude- | I'll move it to the wiki if there's time |
| 07:35.26 | brlcad | his point, I think .. is that if you figure it out .. "it's a wiki" ;) |
| 07:36.06 | DTRemenak | and if some particular part of the format itself is utter crap (in your opinion), or a change would make your life Much Easier (tm), feel free to bug one of us to fix it |
| 07:36.26 | brlcad | yeah, there's nothing about 2.0 that is "set in stone" to say the least |
| 07:36.38 | DTRemenak | particularly with 2.2 coming around |
| 07:36.40 | purple_cow | ah |
| 07:36.44 | purple_cow | well, at least you're brave |
| 07:36.48 | jude- | DTRemenak, I was actually considering ignoring some of the keywords in BZWorkbench because they seem to have little purpose |
| 07:37.06 | DTRemenak | most everything has a purpose :) |
| 07:37.17 | brlcad | hell, trepan shoved about 20 new symbols and a half-dozen new object types in there rather .. quickly .. some that probably have little purpose/utility |
| 07:37.47 | DTRemenak | some of them had the purpose of "make trepan's life easier", not that that's a terrible thing in and of itself either ;) |
| 07:38.10 | brlcad | yeah, he was all about getting some end result as quick as possible, regardless of the implementation |
| 07:38.15 | jude- | brlcad, the unfortunate part is that they're barely documented |
| 07:38.22 | brlcad | sometimes a great approach, sometimes not so great |
| 07:38.23 | jude- | not even the code comments are all that detailed |
| 07:38.26 | DTRemenak | you're lucky if they're even barely documented ;) |
| 07:38.58 | DTRemenak | if you can find some of his example maps, they might be better docs than anything else |
| 07:39.08 | jude- | DTRemenak, that's true |
| 07:39.09 | brlcad | yeah, trepan was good and dumping in 5k line commits at a time with 5 lines of comments |
| 07:39.25 | brlcad | not that anyone else is much better at times :) |
| 07:39.40 | brlcad | trepan was just .. consistent |
| 07:39.53 | jude- | haven't seen him around lately... |
| 07:39.54 | DTRemenak | and we loved him anyway |
| 07:40.22 | purple_cow | not very many times |
| 07:40.54 | jude- | purple_cow: some of my previous experiences including helping the port effort of the Linux kernel to the Palm T|E2, and all the glories of kernel debugging and tracing. Source code diving doesn't scare me :) |
| 07:41.14 | brlcad | yours or trepans? |
| 07:41.18 | DTRemenak | mine |
| 07:41.20 | purple_cow | kernel code is generally pretty clean and straightforward |
| 07:41.26 | brlcad | the menu one was pretty big |
| 07:41.38 | jude- | purple_cow, not this code :) |
| 07:41.46 | DTRemenak | yeah....looks like 4.3kloc |
| 07:42.06 | jude- | purple_cow--the driver I was debugging was pretty hacked up |
| 07:42.10 | DTRemenak | 'course I had an essay for a commit message too :) |
| 07:43.04 | jude- | your code is easier to read than Linux device driver code |
| 07:45.17 | brlcad | I have a nice commit waiting, but haven't figured out what to do for windows yet |
| 07:45.31 | DTRemenak | check it in and let windows "fix itself"? :) |
| 07:45.49 | jude- | check it in and have the users move to *real* operating systems? :) |
| 07:45.51 | brlcad | if I commit now, it will break windows build outright with no simple fix other than a few #ifdef _WIN32's |
| 07:46.42 | DTRemenak | what sort of changes need to be made? |
| 07:46.55 | brlcad | i have an approach to get the same functionality going on windows, but my right eye twitches uncontrollably when I boot up windows in the vm |
| 07:47.51 | brlcad | mebbie .. it's kinda fun code (at least it was to me) |
| 07:48.11 | brlcad | purple_cow: heh, you already know (and don't like the answer) |
| 07:48.26 | jude- | need IRIX testers? |
| 07:48.30 | brlcad | "Coherence" is sweet |
| 07:49.15 | brlcad | did vmw release a non-debug version yet? |
| 07:50.07 | purple_cow | no "non-debug version", but the beta versions let you turn off the debug monitor now |
| 07:50.14 | brlcad | the fact that it was multithreaded alone would make it win cept that it was dog slow in comparison |
| 07:50.19 | DTRemenak | jude-: irix is generally undertested during development |
| 07:51.21 | DTRemenak | brlcad has, in the past, gone through and made sure it builds on mipspro (with much weeping and gnashing of teeth) near the end of the dev cycle |
| 07:51.49 | brlcad | you can tell when it's being compile-tested when the commit messages have explatives related to compilation and constness warnings |
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| 07:51.58 | DTRemenak | jude-: irix is generally undertested during development |
| 07:52.00 | DTRemenak | brlcad has, in the past, gone through and made sure it builds on mipspro (with much weeping and gnashing of teeth) near the end of the dev cycle |
| 07:52.15 | brlcad | deja-vu |
| 07:52.20 | purple_cow | not that we have any irix users anymore |
| 07:52.20 | DTRemenak | all over again :) |
| 07:52.24 | jude- | ...'cause I'm about to get an IRIX machine |
| 07:52.27 | brlcad | the matrix reset |
| 07:53.06 | purple_cow | irix used to be totally awesome (and in some areas, like cpu/memory scaling, still is) |
| 07:53.14 | purple_cow | but for general workstation use it's pretty outdated |
| 07:53.21 | DTRemenak | yeah, irix itself is dying out (especially as platform on which someone might play a game) |
| 07:53.38 | jude- | actually, it's nearing EOL--SGI announced it's replacing it with Linux |
| 07:54.13 | DTRemenak | but there are still a few people who do play on irix, last I looked |
| 07:54.14 | jude- | I was just curious--it has been said that BZFlag supports IRIX |
| 07:54.40 | DTRemenak | and the odd one on solaris also (though I'd be willing to bet that doesn't work anymore either) |
| 07:54.58 | purple_cow | well, I'm sure that there are some irix systems which sgi will support until the machines are either thrown out or sgi goes out of business |
| 07:55.22 | purple_cow | at the DOE and NSA, especially |
| 07:55.22 | jude- | indeed |
| 07:55.31 | jude- | how did BZFlag start out supporting IRIX, anyway? |
| 07:55.32 | brlcad | jude-: well it can/does/should work .. it just gets little/minimal attention and generally only around release time |
| 07:55.32 | DTRemenak | ...either of which event might happen sooner than otherwise expected... ;) |
| 07:55.36 | purple_cow | (which are really the only customers sgi has left) |
| 07:55.52 | purple_cow | jude-: IRIX was the platform it was initially written on |
| 07:55.53 | DTRemenak | jude-: irix is bzflag's "mother platform" |
| 07:56.02 | jude- | ahh |
| 07:56.06 | jude- | that makes sense |
| 07:56.20 | DTRemenak | which is also one reason it hasn't been desupported |
| 07:56.34 | brlcad | in fact, the machine you're getting probably has bzflag already installed on it if irix is installed |
| 07:56.41 | brlcad | it's one of the buttonbox demo apps |
| 07:56.42 | jude- | I'm hoping so |
| 07:56.53 | jude- | it's a first-generation Octane |
| 07:56.58 | brlcad | it's an old version 1.0c or something iirc? |
| 07:57.19 | jude- | so it has more than enough horsepower to support it |
| 07:57.21 | brlcad | pre consistent versioning -- i think I had to hunt down bzfs to get a version |
| 07:57.22 | DTRemenak | jude-: http://my.bzflag.org/w/Project_History is recommended reading |
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| 07:58.03 | DTRemenak | it stops short of the open-sourcing though, which was itself a long time ago |
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| 07:59.05 | purple_cow | or, rather |
| 07:59.20 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 07:59.21 | jude- | why? |
| 08:00.05 | purple_cow | none of the bands posting in the "musicians" section looking for players want what I have to offer |
| 08:00.19 | jude- | what do you offer? |
| 08:01.09 | brlcad | tuba |
| 08:01.19 | jude- | that's what I offer as well |
| 08:01.23 | purple_cow | electric cello |
| 08:01.36 | purple_cow | maybe I shouldn't be surprised |
| 08:01.50 | brlcad | i bet you'd get more takers if you posted it as electric jello (shots) |
| 08:04.36 | jude- | try just offerring "bass" |
| 08:06.22 | brlcad | he who hath not tasted sushi cannot appreciate the goodness that is unagi and sake |
| 08:06.52 | brlcad | you must spread the word, share to the unwashed masses, cleanse their vocal palletes |
| 08:06.56 | purple_cow | fatty tuna has taken the lead spot for me |
| 08:07.26 | jude- | fried shrimp tempura roll is my fave |
| 08:07.50 | brlcad | mmm.. toro |
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| 08:12.32 | jude- | sorry about that--my ISP drops service once every 20 minutes |
| 08:12.39 | jude- | for unknown reasons |
| 08:20.18 | purple_cow | jude-: just curious, where are you doing your development for this? |
| 08:20.55 | jude- | at home |
| 08:21.35 | purple_cow | Well, I mean as far as the code. Are you using any version control locally? |
| 08:22.00 | jude- | probably not...should I |
| 08:22.07 | jude- | ? |
| 08:23.09 | purple_cow | brlcad: should we just give jude- a module in bzflag svn? |
| 08:24.46 | jude- | I can set up a local svn repository if needed |
| 08:25.19 | purple_cow | well, if we can host it that makes it easier for everyone |
| 08:25.25 | purple_cow | do you have a sourceforge account? |
| 08:25.39 | jude- | yes |
| 08:26.51 | purple_cow | unix username? |
| 08:27.05 | jude- | on my pc, or on sourceforge? |
| 08:27.10 | purple_cow | on sourceforge |
| 08:27.16 | jude- | lemme check--it's been a while :) |
| 08:29.34 | jude- | it's "judecn" |
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| 08:36.57 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03davidtrowbridge * r14245 10/trunk/bzworkbench/: Create a module for Jude to work in. |
| 08:37.06 | purple_cow | jude-: you should have developer access now |
| 08:37.13 | jude- | cool! |
| 08:37.14 | jude- | thanks! |
| 08:46.10 | jude- | hmmm... |
| 08:46.12 | jude- | ~svn |
| 08:46.27 | ibot | somebody said subversion was version control software. see http://subversion.tigris.org/ it aims to be a better CVS than CVS. |
| 08:47.05 | ts | jude-: Searching for this: http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN ? |
| 08:47.10 | jude- | yes |
| 08:47.11 | jude- | already there |
| 08:48.37 | jude- | so, to commit, the command would be "svn commit https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/bzworkbench" from the root directory of my project? |
| 08:50.01 | ts | Hmm, I just make the changes, then do 'svn commit -m "message"' |
| 08:50.27 | ts | svn add is to add files that are supposed to be checked in next commit |
| 08:50.55 | purple_cow | jude-: you'll want to "svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/bzworkbench", put your stuff in there, "svn add" each thing, then "svn commit" |
| 08:51.10 | jude- | right then |
| 08:51.45 | ts | Is the URL really required? /me wonders |
| 08:52.19 | purple_cow | you need the URL to check out the directory the first time |
| 08:52.19 | jude- | says the url doesn't exist |
| 08:52.21 | ts | Ah.. |
| 08:52.34 | purple_cow | oh |
| 08:52.38 | purple_cow | trunk/bzworkbench |
| 08:53.33 | ts | svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzworkbench bzworkbench |
| 08:55.17 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03judecn * r14246 10/trunk/bzworkbench/ (43 files in 12 dirs): first upload; don't expect miracles :) |
| 08:55.33 | jude- | there we go |
| 08:55.57 | purple_cow | awesome |
| 08:56.02 | purple_cow | and with that, it's bedtime for me |
| 08:56.09 | jude- | g'night purple_cow |
| 08:56.22 | ts | cu |
| 09:00.37 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03judecn * r14247 10/trunk/bzworkbench/ (6 files in 2 dirs): ...and here are all the necessary Eclipse-specific files |
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| 10:14.58 | daxxar | Stephen Lynch - Voices In My Head |
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| 14:56.47 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 15:23.38 | brad | that "macrosoft" guy is flooding servers with bots again |
| 15:24.09 | ts | he's also posting in dead threads at bzbb |
| 15:24.57 | brad | yes |
| 15:25.01 | brad | ~bzfquery tavern.rklubi.ee:59151 |
| 15:27.55 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 15:27.55 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
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| 16:17.45 | ts | brad: I killed statsbot with !time |
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| 16:19.32 | ts | brad: Can you bring it back online at 5158? |
| 16:31.58 | Constitution | if memory is of the essence (128MB systemwide), are there compile and/or runtime options to bzfs that significantly affect memory usage? |
| 16:32.52 | Erroneous | -world |
| 16:33.00 | Erroneous | ;) |
| 16:34.56 | Constitution | oh, lol |
| 16:35.23 | Constitution | -worldsize 100 -density 0? :-) |
| 16:35.30 | Erroneous | hehe |
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| 17:00.46 | brad | ts, hehe, it's ack |
| 17:00.50 | brad | back* |
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| 17:42.55 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 17:45.20 | TimRiker | ~karma SportChick |
| 17:45.21 | ibot | sportchick has karma of 524 |
| 17:45.28 | TimRiker | ~SportChick++ |
| 17:45.32 | TimRiker | ~karma SportChick |
| 17:45.32 | ibot | sportchick has karma of 525 |
| 17:45.33 | L4m3r | heh |
| 17:45.42 | ndim | ~TimRiker++ |
| 17:45.47 | TimRiker | :) |
| 17:45.56 | L4m3r | Tim, any particular reason ibot/jbot has been a bit laggy lately? |
| 17:46.11 | TimRiker | L4m3r: server they are on is very overloaded. |
| 17:46.42 | TimRiker | http://rikers.org/mrtg/load.html |
| 17:46.43 | L4m3r | ah. |
| 17:46.53 | CBG | ~L4m3r++ |
| 17:47.06 | Constitution | ~L4m3r++ |
| 17:47.09 | TimRiker | (note: that's * 100 as listed on the top, not actual system load) |
| 17:47.13 | L4m3r | eh? |
| 17:47.21 | L4m3r | (the karma) |
| 17:47.45 | CBG | [6:43pm] » L4m3r posted a note on the BZBB about signatures |
| 17:47.45 | L4m3r | I'm not SportChick :) |
| 17:47.45 | TimRiker | no, the load graph I posted. |
| 17:47.45 | L4m3r | oh, that |
| 17:47.47 | CBG | ~L4m3r++ |
| 17:48.14 | L4m3r | yeah, I see it, tim... ouch. >_< |
| 17:48.31 | JeffM | time to gets a new machine :) |
| 17:48.41 | TimRiker | I've got another machine in the queue. just not up yet. |
| 17:48.42 | L4m3r | if not for the fact that my server is dead atm (and under my desk) I'd offer to host the bot :P |
| 17:49.35 | TimRiker | going from a k6 300mhz 256M to a dual p3 450mhz 1G |
| 17:49.43 | L4m3r | nice |
| 17:49.59 | JeffM | you didn't pay for that did ya? |
| 17:50.13 | TimRiker | should keep it happy for a while. I'm adding raid to it atm. the current system gets backed up every now and then, but does not run raid. |
| 17:50.36 | TimRiker | JeffM: well, I paid for the 1G ram ($35) |
| 17:50.45 | JeffM | well that's reasonable :) |
| 17:50.48 | TimRiker | :) |
| 17:51.21 | L4m3r | It's kinda funny to think that my dad paid 2 or 3 grand for his 700MHz p3 box that he still uses at home |
| 17:51.46 | JeffM | prety sure I got a P3 one gig at home |
| 17:51.55 | JeffM | and proably a couple 2 gigers here |
| 17:52.01 | L4m3r | it even runs ok. p3s were a good run from Intel |
| 17:52.33 | L4m3r | and the celly was utter crap at that time, too. |
| 17:52.35 | TimRiker | I'm still looking for a rack mount box for xmission.bzflag.org |
| 17:52.45 | TimRiker | ~chaninfo |
| 17:52.45 | ibot | I'm on 83 channels: #debian/770, #kde/342, #asterisk/287, #openmoko/243, #wowace/238, #idlerpg/235, #maemo/187, #oe/124, #wowi-lounge/117, ##essy/80, #wowwiki/73, #handhelds/61, #bzflag/60, #utah/60, #tomcat/58, #slug/45, #openzaurus/44, #uclibc/44, #nslu2-linux/43, #htc-linux/42, #gllug/38, #norganna/33, #elinux/33, #edev/31, #openezx/29, #elive/27, ... |
| 17:52.45 | ibot | i've cached 3844 users, 2955 unique users, distributed over 83 channels. |
| 17:52.53 | JeffM | that's goinng to be the hard one for you |
| 17:53.01 | JeffM | 1RU stuff ain't cheap |
| 17:53.21 | TimRiker | yeah. I've got quite a few leads, just not pulled one through yet. |
| 17:53.41 | donny_baker | ~L4m3r++ |
| 17:53.58 | L4m3r | heh |
| 17:54.09 | JeffM | 83 channels? that includes ibot, jbot and apt? |
| 17:54.14 | L4m3r | I should've said something about it earlier, apparently :) |
| 17:54.24 | TimRiker | apt/ibot/infobot/jbot/purl. yeah. |
| 17:54.35 | donny_baker | excellent post... and you didn't come off looking like a nit picker |
| 17:54.43 | JeffM | sounds like you don't need that many bots, isn't the limit 60 per nick |
| 17:54.45 | CBG | JeffM: and purl, I assume |
| 17:54.47 | CBG | donny_baker: agreed\ |
| 17:54.47 | JeffM | or did they lower it |
| 17:55.02 | TimRiker | JeffM: 20 per nick unless they raised it. |
| 17:55.10 | CBG | 20 chans per nick by default. |
| 17:55.17 | JeffM | IIRC they had raised it to 60 for ibot and CIA |
| 17:55.19 | CBG | but that can be raised if you ask nicely. |
| 17:55.30 | JeffM | but maybe they put it back when CIA went multi |
| 17:55.57 | TimRiker | JeffM: they wanted to give the bot ops access to get the limit higher. I thought that was a Bad Idea. |
| 17:56.07 | JeffM | ahh yeah that would be |
| 17:56.21 | JeffM | but then you could be lord-god Tim ;) |
| 17:56.41 | TimRiker | CBG: at the time, getting ops was the only want to change the limit. I think that's still true. |
| 17:56.55 | JeffM | CIA was in more then 20, and not ops I know that |
| 17:56.56 | TimRiker | JeffM: start a new bot called lilobot? |
| 17:57.08 | CBG | Not as far as I know, TimRiker. I can join more than 20 channels since I spoke nicely to a staffer about it. |
| 17:57.12 | L4m3r | that's rather creepy, tim >_< |
| 17:57.30 | TimRiker | L4m3r: yeah. over the top. I withdraw the suggestion. |
| 17:57.41 | Erroneous | L4m3r: did I read something wrong, or did you really suggest that people animate parts of their signatures!? |
| 17:57.44 | JeffM | godbot :) |
| 17:57.47 | CBG | I dunno what you mean by "getting ops" but I think I _would_ know, if it had happened to me. :) |
| 17:57.53 | TimRiker | CBG: yeah? neato. who/where did you ask? |
| 17:58.01 | L4m3r | Erroneous: better that than having to see eight userbars... |
| 17:58.03 | Erroneous | other than that, great post :) |
| 17:58.13 | JeffM | TimRiker, the sportchick can probably help you out with that :) |
| 17:58.19 | CBG | I just pmd a staffer, can't remember which, I'm afraid. I bet SportChick could help you if you asked nicely. :) |
| 17:58.37 | Erroneous | userbars are lame anyway, L4m3r :) |
| 17:58.44 | CBG | Erroneous: he said that :) |
| 17:58.48 | L4m3r | yes, I mentioned that. |
| 17:58.50 | Erroneous | CBG: I know |
| 18:00.25 | JeffM | wonder if brlcad would set up svn :) |
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| 18:00.50 | TimRiker | sf has svn. just post it there. :) http://sf.net/projects/silly |
| 18:01.03 | JeffM | I have reasons for not doing SF |
| 18:01.11 | TimRiker | :) |
| 18:01.17 | JeffM | it may not contain fully open source stuff untill the very end |
| 18:01.31 | donny_baker | JeffM: don't know why not... not a huge load |
| 18:01.45 | JeffM | maybe do it on the german server :) |
| 18:01.48 | JeffM | so it has a use :) |
| 18:01.52 | Erroneous | heh |
| 18:01.54 | SportChick | TimRiker: hrm? |
| 18:05.16 | JeffM | donny_baker, the bigest reason may be if it confilcts with existing stuff |
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| 19:00.03 | FarkSimmons | hi Guys! was wondering a question... |
| 19:00.23 | FarkSimmons | is there a possible way to run the bzflag client without a window? |
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| 19:00.53 | FarkSimmons | im wanting to try out the robots for BZRC |
| 19:01.28 | brad | no, you can't |
| 19:01.40 | brlcad | yes, you can -- that's what bzrc does |
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| 19:01.59 | FarkSimmons | i thought so |
| 19:02.03 | FarkSimmons | but just didnt know :-) |
| 19:02.08 | brlcad | you'll have to compile bzrobots or use byu's bot kit though |
| 19:02.14 | FarkSimmons | oh |
| 19:02.18 | FarkSimmons | is it difficult to do? |
| 19:02.25 | FarkSimmons | i am not a programmer |
| 19:02.32 | FarkSimmons | wish i knew how though |
| 19:03.11 | brad | does that work yet brlcad? |
| 19:03.29 | brad | I thought it was still being made |
| 19:03.48 | FarkSimmons | yes supposedly it does according to their website |
| 19:03.58 | brlcad | FarkSimmons: then you're probably better off starting with BYU's materials and their instructions |
| 19:04.15 | FarkSimmons | sure... i'll try that... just wasnt sure about the compile thingies |
| 19:04.19 | brlcad | or waiting until daxxar makes things nice and slick after this summer ;) |
| 19:04.29 | FarkSimmons | that sounds scary to me ;-) |
| 19:04.36 | FarkSimmons | who is daxxar? |
| 19:04.53 | brlcad | well, then programming your own bots is going to be a feat in itself ;) |
| 19:06.15 | brlcad | daxxar is a superbly gifted and talented programmer that is going to make BZFlag's AI interface one of the best available ever this summer ;) |
| 19:07.38 | FarkSimmons | ok |
| 19:07.49 | FarkSimmons | gee the BYU page doesnt tell you where the source code is |
| 19:07.55 | FarkSimmons | only gives a .diff file |
| 19:08.29 | FarkSimmons | does anyone know how to apply that to source you might get from sourceforge for regular bzflag src? |
| 19:08.59 | scott | use the patch command |
| 19:09.11 | JeffM | you jsut want the base source code? |
| 19:09.45 | FarkSimmons | yes and wanted to apply the hoverbot.diff file to it |
| 19:10.07 | JeffM | you can get the source files from our soureforge downloads page |
| 19:10.12 | JeffM | or from our SVN system. |
| 19:10.14 | FarkSimmons | ok |
| 19:10.22 | FarkSimmons | i believe i'll need the 2.1 v |
| 19:10.27 | FarkSimmons | so it must be in the svn |
| 19:10.33 | FarkSimmons | i dont think that's out yet is it? |
| 19:10.35 | JeffM | http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN |
| 19:10.43 | JeffM | no it is not released |
| 19:10.53 | JeffM | that page has the info on how to get the code from subversion |
| 19:12.13 | FarkSimmons | ok i see |
| 19:12.18 | FarkSimmons | im using tortoise |
| 19:12.25 | FarkSimmons | dang if i know how to use it though |
| 19:21.44 | FarkSimmons | question about install bzflag from source... if i install via source (make install) on Fedora or any other rpm based server, how would i uninstall it if i wanted to take it off later? |
| 19:21.47 | FarkSimmons | make uninstall? |
| 19:22.23 | FarkSimmons | will that work with bzflag if not installed with funky options? |
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| 20:06.59 | FarkSimmons | getting a weird ./configure error... what inthe world?? |
| 20:07.00 | FarkSimmons | .infig.status: error: cannot find input file: |
| 20:07.26 | FarkSimmons | wonder if this is some sort of /r /n error/mis-recognition |
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| 20:49.23 | Saturos | Is jude around? |
| 20:49.32 | Saturos | The guy making BZWorkbench. |
| 20:56.17 | JeffM | he usualy comes on in the evenings |
| 20:56.24 | JeffM | 5-6 hours from now |
| 20:58.56 | Saturos | Oh, okay.. the last thing that will happen is that I''' be on the lappy at that time. |
| 20:59.03 | Saturos | *I'll |
| 20:59.24 | JeffM | he's in my time zone, and goes to school |
| 20:59.53 | Saturos | I see |
| 21:00.09 | Saturos | I made a header image for his blog... being curious if he likes it. |
| 21:00.22 | JeffM | he should be on more during our regualr day when he finishes his finals |
| 21:00.25 | JeffM | ohh cool |
| 21:00.28 | JeffM | can I see it? |
| 21:00.53 | Saturos | http://saturos.de/bzworkbench.jpg |
| 21:00.56 | Saturos | Just a preview |
| 21:01.29 | Saturos | Trying to symbolize the process from a rough draft to a complete map. |
| 21:01.35 | JeffM | very nice |
| 21:01.51 | JeffM | very double plus nice |
| 21:02.05 | brlcad | that is freaking sweet |
| 21:02.07 | Constitution | ~Saturos++ |
| 21:02.12 | JeffM | if only the real world rendering looked like that :) |
| 21:02.17 | Saturos | Thanks. :) |
| 21:02.25 | Saturos | Is it developement or development? |
| 21:02.31 | Saturos | I should just put dev blog. |
| 21:02.36 | brlcad | ~spell development |
| 21:02.41 | JeffM | if he dosn't like that, I'll talk to his mentor :) |
| 21:02.46 | JeffM | even purple_cow should like that one |
| 21:02.54 | brlcad | if he doesn't like it, he's fired |
| 21:02.56 | brlcad | *ahem* |
| 21:02.59 | Saturos | hehe, thanks guys :) |
| 21:03.26 | JeffM | tho I'd maybe have gone witht he blue base, if nits want to be picked |
| 21:03.45 | Saturos | Yeah, purple is probably the worst choice. |
| 21:03.54 | Saturos | Didnt notice before but now that you say it.. |
| 21:04.02 | JeffM | the concept and layout are great tho |
| 21:04.17 | JeffM | blue or red would probably fit best I think |
| 21:04.22 | brlcad | actually think it has a nice feminine appeal |
| 21:04.22 | JeffM | red may contrast too much |
| 21:04.37 | JeffM | I like bue as it'll balance the pyramid |
| 21:04.45 | Saturos | Good point. |
| 21:04.58 | brlcad | a guy that likes blue .. who would have guessed :) |
| 21:05.04 | Saturos | I'll try red and blue tomorrow. First waiting what jude says. |
| 21:05.05 | JeffM | good design is gender nutral |
| 21:05.11 | brlcad | (i'd like blue too, but there is an inherint bias) |
| 21:05.13 | JeffM | red is a very intense color |
| 21:05.47 | JeffM | and off to the side it'd be rather unbalancing |
| 21:06.22 | purple_cow | JeffM: what do I like? |
| 21:06.26 | brlcad | i've been to many, and read many books on the matter actually |
| 21:06.40 | JeffM | it'd also be interesting to see how it'd look with the paint splotch at like 75% opaciity |
| 21:06.44 | brlcad | color and design theory, human interface design, part of my studies |
| 21:06.46 | JeffM | purple_cow, http://saturos.de/bzworkbench.jpg |
| 21:06.55 | JeffM | saturos was working on some art for jude's blog |
| 21:07.05 | purple_cow | ah, yes, I like |
| 21:07.19 | brlcad | not saying the pink or any red is great, but it's a nice contrast to the often guy-biased color selections abound |
| 21:07.21 | JeffM | it's artys and origonal :) |
| 21:07.43 | brlcad | yes, I like sex |
| 21:07.44 | JeffM | the aplication of gender to color |
| 21:07.47 | JeffM | heh |
| 21:08.59 | brlcad | the guy behind the css zen garden has a good book out that includes a lot of color/culture/gender information that he's encountered over the years |
| 21:09.00 | JeffM | contrast is good when you want to bring attention to soemthing |
| 21:09.09 | JeffM | I'm not sure you want to bring attention to the side of the image |
| 21:09.16 | Saturos | http://saturos.de/bzw2.jpg |
| 21:09.22 | brlcad | some things I'd not heard like white being offensive in some cultures |
| 21:09.32 | JeffM | Very nice Saturos |
| 21:09.36 | Saturos | notice the splotches |
| 21:09.40 | JeffM | yeah |
| 21:09.47 | JeffM | lightens it up and balances it out I think |
| 21:09.49 | JeffM | I like it |
| 21:10.05 | brlcad | better |
| 21:10.08 | Saturos | I like 75%, I found the left side too heavy as well. |
| 21:10.23 | JeffM | yeah you had a high contrast barrier there |
| 21:10.25 | Saturos | I think some red might not be bad though. |
| 21:10.28 | JeffM | light -> dark ->light |
| 21:10.35 | JeffM | try a red base |
| 21:11.20 | JeffM | or maybe put red wireframes around the boxes |
| 21:11.21 | Saturos | here we go: http://saturos.de/bzw3.jpg |
| 21:11.28 | JeffM | and leave the green grid on the bottom |
| 21:11.34 | purple_cow | so I know jude's already rocking out |
| 21:11.42 | purple_cow | what about the rest of the soc students? |
| 21:11.54 | JeffM | havent' seen others realy |
| 21:12.07 | JeffM | l43mr is finishing up his schoolin and making food for punks |
| 21:12.23 | Saturos | blue makes it a bit boring but fits the color scheme better, red doesnt fit that well but makes it more vibrant |
| 21:12.33 | JeffM | yeah it's contrasty |
| 21:12.49 | Saturos | I think I prefer red |
| 21:14.02 | Saturos | Alright, gotta go to bed now.. maybe show jude the two new images. :) |
| 21:14.21 | JeffM | he's on bzbb, you can PM him |
| 21:14.44 | Saturos | yep, thats an idea |
| 21:14.50 | brlcad | the plan has been tomorrow for our internal kickoff all along, although not so publicly announced because of the holiday |
| 21:16.22 | brlcad | should have some starting points written up here in a couple hours, though purple_cow already squished the plans for commit access so I'm reworking some details |
| 21:16.38 | purple_cow | squished? |
| 21:16.53 | brlcad | stomped ;) |
| 21:17.32 | brlcad | there was going to be some basic steps to get commit access, but no matter, it wasn't that important |
| 21:17.46 | Saturos | 'night guys, thanks for the input! I'll probably be back tomorrow. :) |
| 21:19.14 | JeffM | your not going to give them commit? |
| 21:19.35 | brlcad | of course they are |
| 21:19.42 | JeffM | ahh |
| 21:19.43 | purple_cow | brlcad: well, for jude it's a little different since he's in a completely separate module |
| 21:20.03 | brlcad | just basic steps like all other devs have to take |
| 21:20.05 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban) |
| 21:20.26 | brlcad | not even "submit a patch" steps, more just things like read this -- show something, etc |
| 21:21.15 | JeffM | so, brlcad want to set up a SVN repository on .bz :) |
| 21:22.09 | brlcad | purple_cow: true, though he could also have been integrated or separate or branch, etc |
| 21:22.43 | purple_cow | well, it's all just directories |
| 21:22.51 | purple_cow | module seemed most appropriate, and it can be changed later |
| 21:22.55 | brlcad | JeffM: sure |
| 21:23.27 | *** join/#bzflag Epyon (i=Epyon@host99.180.219.81.magma-net.pl) |
| 21:23.40 | brlcad | purple_cow: it wasn't the technical detail -- it was that he did pretty much "nothing" to get access .. still, no big deal |
| 21:23.59 | purple_cow | he was starting to write code, and I'm paranoid |
| 21:24.00 | brlcad | just removing/changing some steps for the rest |
| 21:49.03 | *** part/#bzflag LongDo1 (n=LongDon@dyndsl-085-016-007-092.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 22:03.13 | blast007 | Erroneous: my userbars are cool |
| 22:03.59 | blast007 | mainly because one of them says "Userbar Hater" and the one one says "<your browser/OS> sucks" |
| 22:08.38 | brlcad | pwm ftw |
| 22:12.42 | blast007 | heh, I was getting results for "Pulse Width Modulation", and then I scrolled down and found the window manager ;) |
| 22:25.02 | JeffM | brlcad, how hard is it to set up svn? |
| 22:25.06 | brlcad | pwm took over for my minimalist preferences though (from black/flux/whatever_the_hell_it's_called_now_box) |
| 22:25.12 | ruskie | fvwm for me :) |
| 22:25.14 | brlcad | JeffM: it's like one command |
| 22:26.08 | brlcad | at least to set it up for local access |
| 22:26.08 | JeffM | I'm thinking for the subspace thingy |
| 22:26.08 | brlcad | for remote distributed, a little more involved |
| 22:26.08 | JeffM | I'm thinking remote |
| 22:26.11 | JeffM | I can just use google I guess, and put the non gpl stuff in the data patcher |
| 22:26.49 | brlcad | i don't mind setting it up, just say the word and it'll be on the queue for tomorrow |
| 22:26.53 | JeffM | or I should figure out what my motivatonal mental problems are |
| 22:27.45 | JeffM | I do |
| 22:27.48 | JeffM | somewhat |
| 22:27.52 | JeffM | I have an idea in my head |
| 22:27.52 | brlcad | just those *other* mental problems I have :) |
| 22:28.12 | JeffM | I'm having problems focusing it into a project plan/layout tho |
| 22:28.16 | *** join/#bzflag sgk284 (i=krenzel@nat/google/x-dc4bd7f787570d4d) |
| 22:28.39 | JeffM | every time I start I get this feeling that it's just WRONG |
| 22:28.56 | JeffM | not as in logicaly incorrect, but like moraly dirty/wrong |
| 22:29.27 | purple_cow | that's just your conscience talking |
| 22:29.31 | purple_cow | and he's a total prude |
| 22:29.33 | JeffM | probably |
| 22:29.34 | JeffM | heh |
| 22:29.46 | JeffM | I can't think of why tho |
| 22:30.10 | JeffM | it bugs me |
| 22:30.35 | JeffM | it's like I'm stealing sometihng, part of my brain says "you should not be doing this!!!" |
| 22:31.00 | brlcad | hm, that is odd |
| 22:31.02 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (i=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r) |
| 22:31.02 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
| 22:31.04 | brlcad | specially for ss |
| 22:31.04 | JeffM | yeah |
| 22:31.39 | JeffM | maybe it's telling me the players will just be asses :) |
| 22:31.41 | brlcad | I mean a blatent ripoff clone would be one thing |
| 22:31.53 | JeffM | but it's not going to be that |
| 22:32.00 | brlcad | i mean down to the graphics and such too |
| 22:32.01 | JeffM | hell subspace has had 3 rips allready |
| 22:32.16 | Erroneous | I could tell you the players will just be asses |
| 22:32.46 | Erroneous | I mean...the players will just be asses. it's the way things go |
| 22:32.46 | JeffM | what will the ass/non-ass ratio be? |
| 22:32.46 | Erroneous | you have to do it for you, not for them |
| 22:33.06 | JeffM | well it's multiplayer, to play it well I need non ass players :) |
| 22:33.18 | Erroneous | best of luck with that :) |
| 22:33.22 | JeffM | yeah |
| 22:34.03 | JeffM | base assfactor |
| 22:34.23 | JeffM | prolly just the other crap I have to worry about now too, posibility of moving, etc.. |
| 22:34.25 | Erroneous | the true value might be far below that, but most non-asses are effectively invisible |
| 22:34.27 | L4m3r | Erroneous: I guess that explaines the horrid typing skills of most of them |
| 22:34.35 | Erroneous | yup |
| 22:34.36 | L4m3r | hooves aren't great for that |
| 22:34.40 | JeffM | tho Don't tell Will I said that |
| 22:34.52 | Erroneous | heh |
| 22:46.14 | JeffM | hah, Erroneous the guy that want's 3d called your bluff |
| 22:47.29 | *** join/#bzflag jude- (n=jude@c-68-84-206-92.hsd1.az.comcast.net) |
| 22:47.35 | jude- | hello all |
| 22:47.38 | tannerld | hello! |
| 22:47.39 | JeffM | there he is |
| 22:47.49 | jude- | sorry about the delay |
| 22:47.55 | brlcad | howdy jude |
| 22:47.57 | jude- | my parents had other plans in store for me this morning |
| 22:48.12 | jude- | but I'm free until whenever I can't keep my eyes open :) |
| 22:48.23 | JeffM | saturos did some art for ya |
| 22:48.33 | jude- | so I've seen |
| 22:48.36 | jude- | I've put his artwork on the blog |
| 22:48.38 | Erroneous | JeffM: did he really? crap |
| 22:48.47 | JeffM | Erroneous, yup |
| 22:49.02 | jude- | I'll probably make it into a splash screen once GSoC ends (and it will be legal to accept outside contributions) |
| 22:50.32 | JeffM | noone will ding ya for using that artwork :) |
| 22:50.49 | JeffM | heck have a dev include it in subversion somewhere, then it becomes project art |
| 22:50.56 | JeffM | and bam, you can use it just like you'r using textures |
| 22:51.08 | jude- | heh--never thought of it that way :) |
| 22:52.11 | JeffM | and it's not the google summer of art ;) |
| 22:52.20 | tannerld | heh |
| 22:52.57 | jude- | this is true |
| 22:53.23 | JeffM | now not wasting time on a splash screen till the end.. .good idea ;) |
| 22:53.34 | jude- | lol |
| 23:03.51 | CBG | ~jude-++ |
| 23:04.12 | tannerld | ~saturos++ |
| 23:04.17 | tannerld | ~jude-++ |
| 23:04.24 | jude- | aww thanks guys :) |
| 23:04.32 | tannerld | ~jude- |
| 23:04.44 | jude- | ~saturos++ |
| 23:04.45 | tannerld | ~karma jude- |
| 23:04.45 | ibot | jude- has karma of 15 |
| 23:04.50 | tannerld | O.o |
| 23:07.51 | brlcad | SportChick: pingo |
| 23:08.08 | CBG | 15? pfft |
| 23:08.09 | CBG | ~jude-++ |
| 23:08.17 | jude- | ~CBG |
| 23:08.32 | ibot | i guess cbg is An annoying 12 year old kid who lives in a bin with lots of sheep. a peach, round and fuzzy The Dude with the Lowest Karma! |
| 23:08.36 | CBG | ~karma jude- |
| 23:08.36 | ibot | jude- has karma of 21 |
| 23:08.37 | CBG | heh |
| 23:08.59 | jude- | ~karma CBG |
| 23:08.59 | ibot | cbg has karma of -441 |
| 23:09.03 | tannerld | lol |
| 23:09.05 | jude- | O.o |
| 23:09.13 | CBG | it was under -450 at one point |
| 23:09.18 | jude- | how badly did you piss everyone off? |
| 23:09.18 | tannerld | ~jude- |
| 23:09.36 | tannerld | lol |
| 23:09.36 | CBG | but at that point, I told people to just gimme whatever karma they felt like |
| 23:09.49 | CBG | jude-: lol. I told everyone I was going for the lowest karma ever... people were more than willing to help out. |
| 23:09.58 | jude- | can I help |
| 23:09.59 | jude- | ? |
| 23:10.07 | CBG | well, one chap actually used a bot to bring it back up :/ |
| 23:10.17 | jude- | or do you want more positive karma? |
| 23:10.20 | tannerld | a bit :P |
| 23:10.30 | CBG | well, either way is usless now |
| 23:10.41 | CBG | since whatever you do will have such little impact |
| 23:11.06 | CBG | I was intending to cheat my way back to 0 and then have people do what they like with it - hopefully push it up :) |
| 23:11.19 | jude- | where's that bot? :) |
| 23:11.31 | CBG | my bot is dead, sadly. |
| 23:11.51 | CBG | I think I actually even LOST the source and database now... |
| 23:12.00 | CBG | since my iBook HD broke... AGAIN... |
| 23:12.08 | jude- | ouch |
| 23:12.13 | CBG | picking it back up tomorrow, I am assuming they had to replace it |
| 23:12.19 | jude- | keep the old one |
| 23:12.27 | jude- | in case it's just a bad sector |
| 23:12.33 | jude- | then you can re-map it |
| 23:12.51 | CBG | I doubt they will give me that option |
| 23:13.00 | jude- | how badly was it broken? |
| 23:13.12 | CBG | they've probably already either binned it... or are doing something else with it |
| 23:13.25 | CBG | no clue. I just know the ibook didnt want to start at all. |
| 23:13.54 | CBG | at the shop, the dude booted on their tiger cd... then he couldn't eject the cd because the machine wouldn't boot from the HD |
| 23:14.04 | jude- | ask for it back. it may have just been a dirty block or some sort of data corruption. You can recover your data if so; you'll just need to mount it separately |
| 23:14.11 | SportChick | brlcad: pongo (if it's fast) |
| 23:14.30 | CBG | Saying that, I seem to have the source code here |
| 23:14.35 | tannerld | lol |
| 23:14.39 | CBG | i'll look for the DB too |
| 23:15.14 | CBG | ok.. dont seem to have the database... but that's not a big problem |
| 23:15.26 | CBG | heck. I could rewrite the code if I really wanted to anyway |
| 23:18.47 | Erroneous | jude-: I'd say, don't worry about accepting external contributions, even codewise. if they're useful, take them. your mentor should give you a yea or nay at the end based on what work you actually DO, not that other stuff. getting feedback, suggestions, and, yes, patches, is part of the open-source projects |
| 23:19.11 | Erroneous | s/projects/workflow/ |
| 23:19.26 | jude- | Erroneous, I know, but I don't want to breach the contract |
| 23:19.35 | jude- | otherwise no google money :( |
| 23:19.42 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 23:20.16 | purple_cow | do you have a link to the policy? |
| 23:20.22 | *** part/#bzflag poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 23:20.43 | Erroneous | I was just looking for it, and couldn't find it |
| 23:21.03 | Erroneous | but I'm pretty sure it's not as restrictive as some people think |
| 23:21.28 | Erroneous | basically, the work you do between the beginning and end of the time is what you're evaluated based on |
| 23:21.35 | Erroneous | nothing else counts |
| 23:21.46 | Erroneous | i.e. you don't get "credit" for accepting patches |
| 23:21.52 | Erroneous | but accepting patches doesn't disqualify you |
| 23:21.57 | brlcad | I think I have a link somewhere, it does speak to not accepting others work -- but there is a spirit to the statement that is basically meant to limit weasels that don't do their work, not to limit collaboration |
| 23:21.57 | jude- | ahh |
| 23:22.12 | jude- | yeah |
| 23:22.14 | jude- | that's it |
| 23:22.17 | JeffM | mostly I think it's so you don't get credit for somethign you did last year |
| 23:22.20 | JeffM | or code you ganked |
| 23:22.22 | brlcad | also any patches worked in would have to not be something that you "relied upon" .. |
| 23:22.45 | jude- | I see |
| 23:23.09 | JeffM | If I was your mentor I'd force you to make your editor work on a sufrace computer |
| 23:23.38 | brlcad | so that if, for example, someone made a "fix" to your code and it was some obscure major design flaw that crippled your ability to complete your goals, that "could" be a problem -- though it still comes down to what we as your mentoring org feel about your work |
| 23:24.19 | jude- | JeffM, you mean a "surface" computer? |
| 23:24.24 | JeffM | yeah that |
| 23:24.30 | jude- | like, say, a tablet? |
| 23:24.33 | JeffM | no |
| 23:24.35 | JeffM | the big ones |
| 23:24.37 | jude- | brlcad: got it; thanks! |
| 23:24.38 | JeffM | http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4217348.html |
| 23:24.44 | brlcad | if you're working hard the whole time, which generally is really obvious, I personally wouldn't care a whole lot if you were stuck with only half your critical "deliverables" achieved |
| 23:24.58 | Erroneous | yeah...you shouldn't expect or rely on other people's work. but if it comes up, there's no reason to refuse to use it just because you didn't write it. NIH syndrome sucks. |
| 23:25.00 | brlcad | it's more a matter of wheter it was discussed and understood, etc .. communication being key |
| 23:25.17 | jude- | right then |
| 23:25.33 | jude- | JeffM: I've seen those |
| 23:25.37 | jude- | pretty neat |
| 23:25.41 | JeffM | indeed |
| 23:25.44 | jude- | willing to ship me one so I can test it? |
| 23:25.58 | JeffM | that is totaly calling to me for a tableTop DnD system :) |
| 23:26.00 | tannerld | heh |
| 23:26.06 | L4m3r | JeffM: I don't even want to know what people would do with that |
| 23:26.25 | L4m3r | first we'd see handprint shaped platforms |
| 23:26.46 | JeffM | I dig the fact that it's NOT a touchscreen |
| 23:26.46 | L4m3r | then we'd see... other kinds of prints... >_< |
| 23:26.53 | Erroneous | heh |
| 23:27.13 | jude- | think "Minority Report" or similar |
| 23:27.21 | tannerld | yep |
| 23:27.33 | jude- | or maybe "Final Fantasy move"-style holograms |
| 23:27.37 | jude- | s/move/movie |
| 23:27.39 | brlcad | jude-: if you want, I can be sure to clarify this with google, I don't mind either way |
| 23:27.49 | brlcad | it does basically come down to good faith work efforts |
| 23:28.09 | jude- | I'll be putting at least 40 hours per week into this project |
| 23:28.24 | jude- | so you can count on a lot of code :) |
| 23:28.39 | tannerld | ooo |
| 23:28.39 | jude- | I was just worried that I'd accidently breach the contract on a technicality |
| 23:28.40 | tannerld | ~jude-++ |
| 23:29.53 | Erroneous | especially with a really large project like yours, you can be working the whole time and not be "really done," regardless of whether you utilize other contributions or not :) |
| 23:29.53 | jude- | Erroneous, I'll probably continue the project long after GSoC for that very reason |
| 23:29.53 | Erroneous | and that should not affect your ability to recieve a positive reward |
| 23:29.56 | jude- | hopefully :) |
| 23:29.56 | CBG | it's a never ending project! may as well give up now !! :P |
| 23:30.01 | jude- | nah |
| 23:30.03 | Erroneous | hehe |
| 23:30.07 | jude- | good CV content |
| 23:30.11 | jude- | good karma as well |
| 23:30.18 | CBG | (joke! this editor is really needed! please do it :D ) |
| 23:30.35 | CBG | Erroneous: what was your project? |
| 23:30.58 | jude- | CBG, the only way it can stop is if i die |
| 23:31.02 | purple_cow | jude-: I'm reasonably confident that google will not be disqualifying anyone unless their mentors say so |
| 23:31.03 | jude- | and everyone interested dies |
| 23:31.08 | CBG | jude-: heh |
| 23:31.11 | jude- | purple_cow: thanks for that |
| 23:31.45 | jude- | CBG: thus is the nature of OSS :) The only way to kill a project is through disinterest (or incapacitation) |
| 23:31.46 | purple_cow | hmm |
| 23:32.02 | purple_cow | booting 3 VMs and doing a build at the same time is apparently a bad idea |
| 23:32.04 | JeffM | or gross suckage |
| 23:32.17 | jude- | I hope you have lots of RAM and swap space :) |
| 23:32.28 | purple_cow | RAM isn't the issue |
| 23:32.38 | purple_cow | I think this machine has 2G |
| 23:32.42 | brlcad | ~BearPerson++ |
| 23:32.57 | JeffM | them cores can only do so much |
| 23:33.10 | purple_cow | yup. these are even kinda old cores |
| 23:33.18 | purple_cow | xeon 2.8 HT, no core 2 love for me =( |
| 23:33.18 | JeffM | how many you got? |
| 23:33.21 | CBG | jude-: well, there is a lot of interest in bz... but if, say, 5 particular guys were to leave, for whatever reason, I'd be surprised to see the development continue... |
| 23:33.26 | CBG | as sad as that seems... |
| 23:33.28 | JeffM | ooo one real core |
| 23:33.30 | JeffM | I'm sorry |
| 23:33.38 | purple_cow | well, two |
| 23:33.47 | jude- | two hardware threads |
| 23:33.52 | Erroneous | CBG: http://wiki.winehq.org/ForceFeedbackSummerOfCode2005Summary |
| 23:34.01 | JeffM | ahh |
| 23:34.02 | purple_cow | still, bad idea |
| 23:34.11 | brlcad | CBG: heh |
| 23:34.48 | CBG | Erroneous: oh, cool |
| 23:34.58 | CBG | brlcad: you don't disagree, I take it? :) |
| 23:35.05 | purple_cow | hrmph |
| 23:35.07 | purple_cow | coffee break! |
| 23:37.13 | brlcad | CBG: actually, I think it would probably wallow for a few months but it would eventually be picked up again by a new/different generation of devs |
| 23:37.59 | brlcad | too large a user community to cease that easily, imho |
| 23:38.27 | CBG | brlcad: I'm not sure there _is_ a new generation of devs... the average bz player doesn't know what "source code" is. :| |
| 23:38.34 | jude- | heh--that's why Microsoft is so scared of Linux :P |
| 23:38.48 | a_meteorite | I see a few prospective devs that hang on the board |
| 23:39.04 | brlcad | the "average bz player" has never known what source code is since it was a dorm code at college |
| 23:39.30 | brlcad | when the average was out of a population of about 10 |
| 23:39.50 | CBG | A couple, yes, a_meteorite, that's a fair point. |
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| 23:40.40 | brlcad | there's almost always less than 1% of devs in any given general public community |
| 23:40.54 | CBG | whatchya playing that silly old thing for, a_meteorite ? :P |
| 23:41.07 | jude- | to the devs: how do you guys feel about nested C++ classes? it's the only way I can get this thing to build |
| 23:41.30 | a_meteorite | jude-: isn't that called inheritance? |
| 23:41.42 | jude- | no, I mean declaring a class within another class |
| 23:41.43 | a_meteorite | CBG: nothing else to do :) |
| 23:41.46 | a_meteorite | ahh.. |
| 23:41.46 | brlcad | jude-: heh, implies something screwy in your class relationships or declarations/dependencies, but not inherintly evil |
| 23:41.56 | brlcad | don't think vc6 will eat them, possibly |
| 23:41.59 | jude- | it makes some sense for the data model |
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| 23:42.45 | brlcad | everything makes sense with the right context and reasoning :) |
| 23:42.49 | jude- | this way, the model class can publicly define how it stores its data so other classes can use the interfaces |
| 23:43.11 | jude- | and it makes the dependency heirarchy much easier :) |
| 23:43.14 | brlcad | what's nested? |
| 23:44.08 | jude- | the model class contains an abstract DataEntry class that defines virtual methods to be implented specifically by other classes designed to be stored as entries to the model |
| 23:44.10 | brlcad | if it's really just data that is part of it's external declaration, there's really not any practical difference between just declaring that class |
| 23:44.43 | jude- | I thought so too, but then I can't get the thing to build :( |
| 23:44.51 | brlcad | heh |
| 23:44.59 | purple_cow | what error do you get? |
| 23:45.17 | jude- | because each class that extends DataEntry needs to include Model.h, and Model.h needs to include the headers of each subclass of DataEntry |
| 23:45.39 | jude- | so gcc thinks that some classes haven't been declared |
| 23:45.43 | purple_cow | Model.h probalby doesn't need those headers, just a forward declaration of the classes |
| 23:46.00 | brlcad | yeah, sounds like you're missing forward decls for how you've layed out the header |
| 23:46.14 | purple_cow | for example "class Foo;" before Model.h, and then "clas Foo { ... }" inside the thing that includes Model.h |
| 23:46.21 | jude- | but Model needs to include references to instances of each of DataEntry's extended classes |
| 23:46.39 | purple_cow | is this code somewhere we can look at it? |
| 23:46.44 | jude- | hang on... |
| 23:50.15 | jude- | I had to rebuild my svn tree. |
| 23:52.00 | jude- | by that, I mean I've destroyed the svn data |
| 23:52.07 | jude- | because I really rearranged the heirarchy |
| 23:52.10 | jude- | and it wouldn't commit |
| 23:52.22 | jude- | so, how do I get it to commit again? |
| 23:53.03 | purple_cow | if you want to move things around in svn, do "svn mv" |
| 23:53.08 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@2002:4cb1:a8ba:0:0:0:0:1) |
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| 23:53.09 | purple_cow | then you can commit those rearrangements |
| 23:53.24 | jude- | what I mean is I've started the tree over |
| 23:53.32 | purple_cow | svn rm things, then svn add again |
| 23:53.55 | jude- | no, you misunderstand--svn's configuration for this project no longer exists. I wiped it out |
| 23:54.14 | purple_cow | it's still on the server |
| 23:54.31 | purple_cow | check out another copy of the directory, make your changes in that, then svn commit |
| 23:54.37 | purple_cow | then put your new stuff in, svn add, svn commit |
| 23:59.14 | jude- | can I get svn to remove directories? |
| 23:59.24 | jude- | I completely rearranged the directory structure |
| 23:59.36 | purple_cow | svn rm will do all you need |
| 23:59.47 | purple_cow | in fact, I think you can remove entire tree structures by just rm'ing the directory |
