| 00:01.34 | *** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=emp@unaffiliated/rob1n) |
| 00:19.59 | Winny | Erroneous, can you delete this? http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=10123 |
| 00:20.22 | Winny | I encountered problems with that project, so I doubt it will ever be finished. |
| 00:21.24 | Erroneous | it's months old, any particular reason it matters? |
| 00:21.56 | Winny | its a sticky... :p |
| 00:22.13 | Winny | or at least desticky it, or something |
| 00:22.27 | Erroneous | meh, I deleted it :P |
| 00:22.32 | Winny | thanks :D |
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| 00:32.21 | biggeruniverse | ah, the flawed nature of meritocracies... |
| 00:32.40 | biggeruniverse | Erroneous: did I give out years? |
| 00:33.17 | Erroneous | eh? |
| 00:33.49 | biggeruniverse | Erroneous | "reasonably mature" is a state of mind, not of years :) |
| 00:34.48 | Erroneous | biggeruniverse: if you have kids (plural), you're older than most of the people on the board :) |
| 00:35.12 | biggeruniverse | But by your reasoning, I have been older than most people on the board for much longer than I have had kids |
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| 00:35.40 | Erroneous | probably also true |
| 00:36.05 | Erroneous | and if it's not, then the statement is still true :) |
| 00:36.26 | Erroneous | young people can be mature. old people can be immature. |
| 00:36.31 | Erroneous | they're not related |
| 00:36.40 | biggeruniverse | are you the best judge? |
| 00:36.47 | Erroneous | nope |
| 00:36.59 | biggeruniverse | Therein lies the flaw of a meritocracy |
| 00:37.51 | Erroneous | what would you prefer? |
| 00:39.49 | biggeruniverse | Well, that's a political discussion, which isn't for game channels. |
| 00:40.38 | biggeruniverse | I've already gone to the edge of what is allowed... |
| 00:40.54 | Erroneous | if one criticizes, one should be prepared to propose superior alternatives :) |
| 00:43.37 | biggeruniverse | I hope I didn't imply that I was unprepared, only that I was respectful of other people's morays. |
| 00:45.10 | Erroneous | hm...respectful enough to not propose an alternative, but not respectful enough to not criticize the status quo :) that's a fine line there, sir |
| 00:45.51 | rob1n | wow only 5 ops in here |
| 00:45.59 | rob1n | 4 not including ChanServ |
| 00:46.17 | Erroneous | there are others who can be if they need to |
| 00:46.21 | biggeruniverse | The alternative requires I expound a bit on politics. If criticizing the status quo is an affront to anyone, it is a sad day. |
| 00:47.40 | biggeruniverse | Criticizing the status quo is what we remember great persons of history for... |
| 00:47.47 | rob1n | Erroneous, you're DTRemenak?? |
| 00:48.05 | Erroneous | nobody considers the status quo perfect, just the best solution available. to say that it is not perfect, and imply that it is not the best available, without demonstrating that there is one that is better, is trollish (tearing down without building up) |
| 00:48.16 | Erroneous | rob1n: I am |
| 00:48.45 | rob1n | Erroneous, why not just be "DTRemenak"? :) |
| 00:48.59 | Erroneous | and no, what we remember great persons of history for, is for proposing superior alternatives |
| 00:49.01 | JeffM | cus he's at work |
| 00:49.25 | Erroneous | we don't remember jefferson for saying "absolutism sucks", we remember him for saying "representative democracy is superior to absolutism" |
| 00:49.50 | Erroneous | rob1n: DTRemenak is me from home, this is me from work |
| 00:49.59 | biggeruniverse | And he would be kicked from this channel for talking about politics. |
| 00:50.18 | rob1n | Erroneous, huh. didn't know that. maybe DTRemenak[work]? ;) |
| 00:50.25 | Erroneous | biggeruniverse: could be, could be :) |
| 00:50.34 | biggeruniverse | I've seen it happen. |
| 00:50.41 | biggeruniverse | (Not to him, of course) |
| 00:51.15 | Erroneous | rob1n: meh, the confusion is advantageous sometimes :) |
| 00:51.41 | Erroneous | besides, I like this nick :) |
| 00:53.21 | biggeruniverse | But, meritocracy *is* absolutism. |
| 00:53.52 | Erroneous | can be, sure |
| 00:53.57 | biggeruniverse | And I never said it sucked either, only that it is flawed. I hope that doesn't ruffle feathers. |
| 00:54.00 | biggeruniverse | no, is |
| 00:54.33 | Erroneous | flaws are inherent in every system I know of. that's why I wanted to know what you thought was better :) |
| 00:54.54 | Erroneous | and no, can be :) depends how the specialization is implemented |
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| 00:57.54 | biggeruniverse | But as long as there is one person who can give and take ranks, what does that make it? |
| 00:58.13 | Erroneous | there isn't one, there are...six, probably |
| 01:01.27 | rob1n | is this whole argument about those custom ranks? |
| 01:10.10 | biggeruniverse | no |
| 01:11.33 | biggeruniverse | There's one maintainer, right? |
| 01:12.10 | Thumper_ | SportChick: belated pong |
| 01:13.33 | biggeruniverse | Never played it |
| 01:18.56 | Erroneous | biggeruniverse: correct, there is one maintainer. Tim holds copyright and is the project owner on SF. The forums are not run by SF, they're hosted by brlcad, and up until a few days ago, Jeff was in charge of them. That's what I'm saying about specialization. |
| 01:19.51 | Erroneous | and really, bzflag is run more on the basis of consensus than authority anyway |
| 01:21.37 | biggeruniverse | You see how this is becoming political? |
| 01:21.56 | Erroneous | didn't it start that way? :) |
| 01:22.08 | biggeruniverse | Now I have to go into examples to back up my argument, and you have to counter likewise. |
| 01:22.25 | biggeruniverse | Yes, but like I said, I had gone to the edge then |
| 01:22.45 | Erroneous | and I still don't see the proposal of what would be better, which is what I'm interested in |
| 01:24.18 | biggeruniverse | And which I still refuse to go into. |
| 01:25.00 | Erroneous | heh. whatever. |
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| 03:43.02 | daniel_jackson | anyone seen lodxcol or tadd? |
| 03:43.51 | a_meteorite | they died, iirc |
| 03:43.51 | brlcad | anyone recognize 207.114.132.63 ? |
| 03:44.14 | a_meteorite | brlcad: nope |
| 03:44.48 | daniel_jackson | do I need to cross reference it? |
| 03:45.00 | daniel_jackson | whith proxy servers, etc? |
| 03:45.15 | brlcad | no, just general curiosity |
| 03:45.42 | brlcad | someone attempting to log in with a user id that could be valid, but I don't recognize it |
| 03:45.56 | daniel_jackson | ok what server? |
| 03:45.57 | blast007 | JBdiGriz has that ISP |
| 03:47.03 | blast007 | but they've had a different IP |
| 03:47.08 | daniel_jackson | I pinged it, should I do a traceroute? |
| 03:47.18 | brlcad | yeah, pretty sure it's not him |
| 03:47.22 | brlcad | daniel_jackson: no, don't bother |
| 03:47.29 | brlcad | it's not a big deal, no matter |
| 03:47.39 | daniel_jackson | ok just trying to help |
| 03:47.58 | blast007 | yeah, JB has had the same IP in all my logs, and it's not that |
| 03:48.45 | EbErT | IP Man, IP Man, going where-ever, an IP can |
| 03:49.03 | daniel_jackson | no thats a packet |
| 03:49.25 | daniel_jackson | but good jingle |
| 03:49.44 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, is it in the same range as users.gibbscam.com? |
| 03:49.51 | biggeruniverse | I think you're thinking of IP Maaan please listen! |
| 03:49.56 | JeffM2501 | looks realy familair |
| 03:51.43 | EbErT | hey, no critiquing, make your own bigger |
| 03:52.04 | JeffM2501 | hmmm maybei t's not |
| 03:52.16 | EbErT | IP man can run out of numbers you know. |
| 03:52.55 | EbErT | just takes a while |
| 03:52.55 | daniel_jackson | thats when he turns into IPv6 Man |
| 03:55.38 | brlcad | JeffM2501: ooh, yeah -- it may be someone you know |
| 03:56.01 | JeffM2501 | it May be orchid |
| 03:56.08 | JeffM2501 | I left her DNSs up |
| 03:57.37 | rob1n | JeffM2501, wait, so you're 2501 again? |
| 03:57.46 | JeffM2501 | oh |
| 03:57.47 | JeffM2501 | crud |
| 03:58.21 | EbErT | thats not a very good disguise jeff |
| 03:58.24 | biggeruniverse | Good work, rob1n. Now, back to the batcave! |
| 03:58.45 | rob1n | not quite |
| 03:58.48 | rob1n | he still has ops ;) |
| 03:59.05 | *** mode/#bzflag [-o JeffM] by JeffM |
| 03:59.17 | biggeruniverse | Well, if there wasn't evil in the world, we'd have no jobs. |
| 03:59.19 | JeffM | guess I didn't change the master nick on this machine |
| 03:59.21 | rob1n | no, no. you're supposed to give *me* ops, then deop yourself :P |
| 04:59.55 | AAA_awright | JeffM: WHO ARE YOU, AND WHAT DID YOU DO TO THE REAL JEFFERY? |
| 05:00.28 | JeffM | huh? |
| 05:00.29 | brlcad | AAA_awright: tone it down some please |
| 05:00.40 | AAA_awright | (awww) |
| 05:01.17 | AAA_awright | (sorry) What is with the nick change? I can understand taking a smaller role, but... |
| 05:01.17 | EbErT | those caps are too loud for his eyes |
| 05:01.30 | EbErT | he also doesn't like polka-dots, for future reference |
| 05:01.41 | brlcad | just polkas |
| 05:02.01 | EbErT | accordians |
| 05:02.32 | AAA_awright | Oh, and do you have the keys to ##CommunityAdminNetwork? If you don't want to, I can take over. |
| 05:02.46 | JeffM | it's deregistered |
| 05:02.51 | JeffM | so do what you wish to it |
| 05:02.54 | JeffM | it has no keys |
| 05:02.55 | AAA_awright | ! |
| 05:03.04 | AAA_awright | ChanServ is missing |
| 05:03.08 | AAA_awright | (I knew that) |
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| 05:12.58 | jude- | hello all |
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| 05:13.52 | AAA_awright | hi jude- |
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| 06:41.46 | daxxar | DTRemenak: There, I've set up my account now ;) |
| 06:42.39 | DTRemenak | heh :) |
| 06:43.09 | DTRemenak | there, your rank is set :) |
| 06:44.25 | daxxar | \o/ |
| 06:44.26 | daxxar | ;-) |
| 06:46.58 | daxxar | Guess I'll post a thread in the Development forum when I get started. |
| 06:48.50 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14236 10/trunk/bzflag/ (3 files in 2 dirs): more dekerberosification |
| 06:54.33 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14237 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsAPI.cxx: oops, didn't think I'd checked that in...oh well, fix it anyway |
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| 14:12.37 | eTangenT | hm, I see Missile War is down. |
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| 17:03.26 | JeffM | brlcad, you awake? |
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| 17:25.51 | KTL | if i wanted to train a network against the bzflag game ... |
| 17:26.01 | KTL | then it would take lots of time |
| 17:26.23 | KTL | unless the game ran faster |
| 17:26.27 | KTL | no opengl |
| 17:27.12 | KTL | a much higher clockspeed |
| 17:27.25 | KTL | but i don't know if bz can handle high speeds |
| 17:28.22 | KTL | it is made to be realtime in the first place, less to be a correct simulation |
| 17:29.33 | KTL | as if a game was being played with very slow rendering |
| 17:30.42 | JeffM | you could make it run faster, but still have it return a normal time delta |
| 17:30.44 | KTL | the clockspeed should be in function of the average speed tanks move |
| 17:31.46 | JeffM | I did that to save a movie once |
| 17:31.52 | KTL | ? |
| 17:31.54 | JeffM | had the clock run as fast as it could |
| 17:32.03 | JeffM | but had it return a fixed time delta |
| 17:32.12 | JeffM | so the computer thought it had spend 1/30th of a second |
| 17:32.20 | JeffM | but it realy had spent 1/1000th |
| 17:32.43 | JeffM | so it ran as if it was runing at 30fps, but processed it much faster |
| 17:32.57 | KTL | ah there is a hardcoded time delta somewhere that should be in function of the real clockspeed? |
| 17:32.59 | JeffM | cus I was just saving out to a movie |
| 17:33.15 | JeffM | I hardcoded the time delta that was returned |
| 17:33.21 | JeffM | and decouplled it from the real clock |
| 17:33.29 | JeffM | nothing says you have to use the real clock :) |
| 17:33.35 | JeffM | you can simulate a clock |
| 17:33.38 | KTL | :) |
| 17:33.49 | JeffM | for you that would probalby be best |
| 17:34.01 | JeffM | have it comptue like it was runing at a fixed 30 fps |
| 17:34.09 | JeffM | but let it run as fast as it can |
| 17:34.56 | JeffM | it just means you keep your own internal "sim clock" that gets updated each loop by your fixed increment |
| 17:35.15 | KTL | so the operation would require finding possible hard coded time delta's and tweaking all cals to clocks, ... and waiting till some gsoc man makes a non-opengl prog |
| 17:35.29 | JeffM | it's all in one place |
| 17:35.37 | JeffM | timeKeeper |
| 17:35.45 | JeffM | 2.1 has headless support now |
| 17:35.47 | JeffM | bzrobots |
| 17:35.53 | KTL | :) |
| 17:36.20 | KTL | robotwars are near |
| 17:36.35 | JeffM | yeah cus THAT is exciting and fun |
| 17:37.00 | JeffM | the problem you'll have is, it would not be possible to teach your networks against real humans |
| 17:37.09 | KTL | indeed |
| 17:37.15 | KTL | so they have to learn against themselves |
| 17:37.22 | JeffM | as they would run in ther eown timeslice |
| 17:37.36 | JeffM | yeah so they may not learn anything usefull against meat players |
| 17:38.13 | KTL | in genetic algorithms i had a paper about someone making artificial creatures fighting for a red box in 3d, the selection was done by one to one fighting to the best one of the previous generation |
| 17:38.53 | JeffM | and you just do random mods of the paramaters for each generation/ |
| 17:39.10 | JeffM | I'd think it would come down to the bot with the least shot error |
| 17:39.12 | JeffM | that's it |
| 17:39.18 | JeffM | you'll make the perfect terminator bot |
| 17:39.20 | JeffM | that's not fun |
| 17:39.21 | JeffM | that's mean |
| 17:39.40 | KTL | i am one myself |
| 17:39.42 | KTL | :P |
| 17:40.00 | JeffM | the good bots are the ones writen to act human |
| 17:40.01 | KTL | yesterday on badgerking a 45-0 round :D |
| 17:40.14 | JeffM | networks are good for solving a problem |
| 17:40.19 | JeffM | like "get from here to there" |
| 17:40.20 | JeffM | that kinda stuff |
| 17:40.24 | JeffM | your not solving a problem |
| 17:40.27 | KTL | that is true as long as there is not a near perfect bot written |
| 17:40.27 | JeffM | your trying to have fun |
| 17:40.59 | KTL | well in my case not just fun |
| 17:41.12 | KTL | i have my symbolic reasoning software |
| 17:41.25 | JeffM | so your solving problems :) |
| 17:41.43 | KTL | i want it to become as strong as possible and explore the combinations with genetic algo's en ann's |
| 17:42.00 | JeffM | neat |
| 17:42.41 | KTL | :) |
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| 18:26.50 | All13d | Yay. |
| 18:26.55 | All13d | BZFlag finally works without incredible screen tearing and lag on the new NVidia drivers |
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| 18:35.17 | KTL | could it work fast together with beryl enabled |
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| 20:58.14 | JeffM | man, where 2d graphics a pain in the butt back in the day.... |
| 20:59.05 | Winny | QBASIC? :p |
| 20:59.11 | JeffM | just the art |
| 20:59.30 | Winny | oh |
| 20:59.32 | JeffM | a single 360x1440 image to make ONE ship turn and bank |
| 20:59.55 | JeffM | and be 32x32 on screen |
| 21:01.07 | JeffM | one of my old game dev books had a techinque to get "photo realistic graphics" |
| 21:01.32 | JeffM | it involved a camera, a protractor, lazy susan, and a toy spaceship |
| 21:01.47 | Winny | hehe |
| 21:02.41 | JeffM | I think I'll stick with the 17k model file, and a 265x256 texture |
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| 22:23.46 | JeffM | Erroneous, is making a symblolc link on bsd any dif then linux? |
| 22:23.53 | Erroneous | nope |
| 22:24.05 | JeffM | ln -s the_link the/dir/I/want ? |
| 22:24.52 | JeffM | :) |
| 22:25.14 | Erroneous | heh |
| 22:26.01 | JeffM | that didn't do jack it seems :( |
| 22:26.33 | JeffM | ln -s ./ocWeb /usr/www/opencombat.net |
| 22:26.39 | JeffM | when I was in my home dir |
| 22:32.01 | a_meteorite | JeffM: you mixed up the parameters |
| 22:32.49 | JeffM | lokit that |
| 22:32.51 | JeffM | thanks |
| 22:33.08 | JeffM | the help on it was odd |
| 22:33.21 | a_meteorite | I always mess up ln |
| 22:33.21 | JeffM | it just said ln [options] file ... director |
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| 22:48.49 | TD-Linux | I always mess up ln too |
| 22:48.49 | TD-Linux | then when I get ln right, I mess up mount |
| 22:48.50 | a_meteorite | hehe |
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| 23:32.59 | L4m3r | I feel like a noob... I've asked tim for a bzflag.org subdomain, and he wants the IP/hostname... how do I configure this with my webhost? :| |
| 23:36.05 | Constitution | L4m3r: who's your webhost? or is it your own server? |
| 23:36.25 | L4m3r | just a rented host |
| 23:36.40 | L4m3r | not sure whether to give nameservers, or what |
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| 23:38.10 | AAA_awright | When is MsgPlayerUpdateSmall versus MsgPlayerUpdate used? Anyone here that knows the protocol that well? |
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