| 00:03.32 | tannerld | bzedit update? |
| 00:08.50 | JeffM2501 | not exactly |
| 00:12.25 | JeffM2501 | just a fever dream |
| 00:14.10 | *** join/#bzflag Alec (n=46f58c95@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 00:14.38 | Alec | bobble gobble |
| 00:18.22 | JeffM2501 | part of me is bummed that people are still using bzeditt |
| 00:18.34 | JeffM2501 | and blender is not trivial to learn |
| 00:22.16 | brlcad | i think it's actually harder than brl-cad's crap solid editor interface |
| 00:22.32 | brlcad | why did I stop working on the bzw importer? hmm |
| 00:22.40 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 00:22.57 | brlcad | something came up, don't remember what though |
| 00:23.24 | JeffM2501 | coeds? |
| 00:23.32 | brlcad | wisheth I |
| 00:23.57 | *** join/#bzflag Theme97 (n=Theme97@about/essy/phpwriter/Theme97) |
| 00:24.00 | JeffM2501 | I have the framework that would allow text editing of the objects, and a graphical representation of them |
| 00:24.12 | JeffM2501 | and it's got platform hooks for the difrent OSs |
| 00:24.17 | JeffM2501 | dunno if it's worth it tho |
| 00:58.30 | *** join/#bzflag shorty114 (n=shorty11@unaffiliated/shorty114) |
| 01:03.33 | *** join/#bzflag lodxcol (n=lodxcol@unaffiliated/lodxcol) |
| 01:26.27 | JeffM2501 | does the wiki have a list of the flag codes? |
| 01:32.10 | *** join/#bzflag chickin (n=chickin@66-191-163-188.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) |
| 01:34.14 | brlcad | so about 2 hours to go |
| 01:34.22 | brlcad | so sayeth google |
| 01:36.52 | blast007 | hi chickin |
| 01:37.36 | brlcad | ~eat chickin |
| 01:37.50 | ibot | ACTION eats chickin and falls over dead |
| 01:37.51 | brlcad | aw |
| 01:57.20 | blast007 | 15 seconds delay on the bot ;) |
| 02:04.10 | JeffM2501 | world weap and oncap for bases is now doced on the wiki :) |
| 02:04.15 | JeffM2501 | being sick is productive |
| 02:04.47 | blast007 | :) |
| 02:05.06 | blast007 | whenever I'm sick I usually just play games all day |
| 02:05.21 | JeffM2501 | I've goten sick of supreme comander |
| 02:07.28 | JeffM2501 | I didn't acctualy commit a change to bzedit did I? |
| 02:07.34 | JeffM2501 | was it the nyquill ? |
| 02:07.57 | blast007 | musta been |
| 03:00.24 | shorty114 | haha |
| 03:05.22 | SportChick | JeffM2501: guess what mozul's doing right now |
| 03:06.23 | Jeffm2502 | puting things togehter |
| 03:06.26 | brlcad | does he have his shirt on? |
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| 03:09.14 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v SportChick] by ChanServ |
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| 03:41.40 | brlcad | eek, SportChick |
| 03:41.48 | brlcad | K-lined? |
| 03:41.48 | SportChick | brlcad: heh |
| 03:41.48 | SportChick | it's your fault |
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| 03:41.54 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:41.56 | Jeffm2502 | sweet he can k-line people by asking |
| 03:42.05 | SportChick | hehe |
| 03:43.18 | Jeffm2502 | brlcad, would brclad be a full bzw editor if you finish your import/exporter? |
| 03:45.36 | brlcad | yep |
| 03:45.49 | Jeffm2502 | full physics and all objects? |
| 03:45.55 | Jeffm2502 | porters, etc.. |
| 03:46.43 | brlcad | ahh, sans physics, but with porters, textures, and automatic LoDs would be fairly trivial to add |
| 03:47.20 | Jeffm2502 | I'm more conserned about the non visals |
| 03:47.21 | brlcad | don't mind me, though.. it's all smoke till you see the commits .. i just remembered today that I was even working on it! |
| 03:47.23 | Jeffm2502 | world weapons |
| 03:47.24 | Jeffm2502 | etc.. |
| 03:47.34 | Jeffm2502 | Iknow, just wondering what all blrcad can do |
| 03:47.36 | brlcad | yeah, those are all just attributes to brl-cad |
| 03:47.41 | Jeffm2502 | k |
| 03:47.52 | brlcad | sort of like applying arbitrary metadata to objects |
| 03:47.53 | Jeffm2502 | world weaps? |
| 03:47.58 | Jeffm2502 | those are there own objects |
| 03:48.08 | Jeffm2502 | can it just do atributes on geometrics? |
| 03:48.15 | brlcad | on anything |
| 03:48.36 | brlcad | and object-level or global too |
| 03:48.36 | Jeffm2502 | does it have the concept of a non visual object? |
| 03:48.41 | brlcad | yep |
| 03:48.42 | Jeffm2502 | ahh global too |
| 03:48.43 | Jeffm2502 | ok |
| 03:48.47 | Jeffm2502 | then you could do physics |
| 03:49.38 | brlcad | yeah, shouldn't be too hard .. but would have to whip up a gui of some sort for the plugin to make it easy to edit physics values |
| 03:49.52 | Jeffm2502 | sure but it's possible |
| 03:50.02 | Jeffm2502 | basicly do the same thing as blender |
| 03:50.14 | brlcad | don't think people would like having to type: attr set building.r spin 30 |
| 03:50.38 | brlcad | basically, yeah |
| 03:51.10 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@dialin-213-170-173-132.ewetel.net) |
| 03:51.23 | brlcad | the hardest part is really parsing the bzw format for _input_ .. i probably should have started on export first |
| 03:51.53 | brlcad | trepan has some funky crap going on in the format with idiosyncratic behaviors |
| 03:52.07 | Jeffm2502 | indeed |
| 03:52.15 | brlcad | that stuff was all tacked onto the (relatively clean) existin format less than half-assed :) |
| 03:52.30 | Jeffm2502 | we can just replace it for 2.2 :) |
| 03:52.39 | Jeffm2502 | nice all mesh implementation :) |
| 03:52.46 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:53.07 | brlcad | talking to the wrong guy.. I LIKE implicits :) |
| 03:53.34 | brlcad | arbitrary tessellations on demand |
| 03:53.49 | Jeffm2502 | we keep them in the work file, and then dump a tess to the clients |
| 03:53.50 | brlcad | dual rep support |
| 03:54.10 | Jeffm2502 | so we'll just make it a parasoiid file |
| 03:54.15 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:54.52 | brlcad | brl-cad has a sat exporter .. tied to acis kernel though, so practically useless |
| 03:55.26 | brlcad | the dev didn't implement it by spec, used cubit api unfortunately |
| 03:55.47 | Jeffm2502 | brlcad also seems to run like ass on this machine :) |
| 04:00.20 | brlcad | that old windows binary needs so much work |
| 04:00.47 | brlcad | actually, one of our GSoC projects would be to gut the nasty that is MGED ;) |
| 04:04.44 | Jeffm2502 | did they anounce? |
| 04:04.58 | brlcad | they're done |
| 04:05.11 | Jeffm2502 | I assume we didn't |
| 04:05.21 | brlcad | still don't know yet |
| 04:05.28 | Jeffm2502 | ahh |
| 04:05.32 | brlcad | he just said like 5 minutes ago that they finished |
| 04:05.35 | brlcad | and went home |
| 04:05.45 | brlcad | some poor dude gets to type it all up now and post it :) |
| 04:05.59 | brlcad | you should get an e-mail as admin if we do |
| 04:06.28 | brlcad | (that you'd have to confirm/reply to) |
| 04:07.12 | Jeffm2502 | k |
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| 04:09.17 | Jeffm2502 | I'm not sure the kiddies will even get brlcad |
| 04:09.30 | brlcad | like how that download is, heck no |
| 04:09.31 | Jeffm2502 | I think they nee something for object layout |
| 04:09.48 | brlcad | i wouldn't have them run mged |
| 04:10.02 | Jeffm2502 | unless it's VERY easy, I don't think tthey'll get it |
| 04:10.09 | brlcad | there's another mode of operation, similar to what archer does |
| 04:10.17 | brlcad | with buttons, and panels, and point clicky stuff |
| 04:10.30 | Jeffm2502 | that would help |
| 04:11.10 | brlcad | i was going to customize it for bz via plugin once the import/export is taken care of |
| 04:11.18 | brlcad | since that's the bulk of the work |
| 04:11.50 | Jeffm2502 | I love how I can't uninstall it cus IRC is running |
| 04:11.57 | Jeffm2502 | and how it didn't close the file I opened :) |
| 04:13.18 | Jeffm2502 | heh |
| 04:13.22 | brlcad | the windows build was put together entirely external |
| 04:13.30 | Jeffm2502 | ahh |
| 04:13.39 | Jeffm2502 | tell them MSI is evil |
| 04:13.40 | brlcad | took me months to integrate the crap code mods |
| 04:23.44 | *** join/#bzflag Jeffm2502 (n=User@pool-71-109-221-249.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 04:23.59 | Jeffm2502 | worst uninstall... ever |
| 04:24.08 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:26.25 | brlcad | seriously, that windows binary is so dated .. and didn't get the attention it needed to say the least |
| 04:26.42 | Jeffm2502 | what do most of your customers run on? |
| 04:26.45 | brlcad | horrible representation, unfortunately |
| 04:26.54 | brlcad | unix systems |
| 04:27.39 | brlcad | adoption of windows is picking up fast, but the binary on sf.net just hasn't been updated -- locals get a custom build as needed |
| 04:28.17 | brlcad | alas, most people are introduced to mged .. which is no fun without training |
| 04:29.43 | brlcad | only good thing is that it does expose the breadth of editing functionality when you learn it, powerful command interface better than most commercial, just not newbie friendly on the GUI |
| 04:30.36 | brlcad | with a different skin on the geometry engine, and wrapper on the commands ... |
| 04:41.56 | *** join/#bzflag Chestal_ (i=thilo@vmax.unix-ag.uni-siegen.de) |
| 04:45.21 | Jeffm2502 | optimaly we'd want something that is as easy to use as apps like gtkradiant or unrealed |
| 05:01.26 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2503 (n=User@pool-71-109-221-249.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 05:01.40 | brlcad | heh, new and improved |
| 05:03.51 | JeffM2503 | i hit the blue button |
| 05:40.39 | *** join/#bzflag essy (n=essy@freenode/staff/about.essy.sportchick) |
| 05:40.39 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v essy] by ChanServ |
| 05:41.03 | essy | ~ping bz.bzflag.bz |
| 05:41.16 | ibot | pong bz.bzflag.bz |
| 05:41.16 | essy | err |
| 05:41.16 | essy | ~ping bzflag.bz |
| 05:41.18 | ibot | pong bzflag.bz |
| 05:51.18 | menotume | <ibot> no reponse from bzflag.bz |
| 05:52.40 | SportChick | menotume: it's down, it seems |
| 05:52.46 | menotume | yeppers |
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| 05:53.39 | menotume | i bet it's back :) |
| 05:53.47 | brlcad | no, it's not |
| 05:54.00 | menotume | hehe |
| 05:54.06 | brlcad | something major happened to the isp |
| 05:54.12 | menotume | uhohs |
| 05:54.37 | brlcad | looks like the isp was delisted from dns |
| 05:54.44 | DTRemenak | ouch |
| 05:54.57 | brlcad | not whois, just lookup |
| 05:55.14 | *** join/#bzflag Guu (n=supybot@66.111.56.50) |
| 05:55.20 | brlcad | ooh |
| 05:55.26 | brlcad | hello guu |
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| 05:56.56 | essy | hey tofu |
| 05:57.10 | tofu | nhey |
| 05:57.16 | DTRemenak | ~n |
| 05:57.29 | ibot | n is, like, the disease bzflag players get when they play too much. There is no cure. |
| 05:57.30 | tofu | there's still a problem, but it looks like they've at least rerouted or something |
| 05:57.41 | tofu | ~nslookup sagonet.com |
| 05:58.09 | essy | I've been having trouble all day, actually - got disconnected from the server several times, but just figured it was me |
| 05:58.27 | menotume | ~nslookup my.bzflag.org |
| 05:58.28 | tofu | essy: it was just you, this is probably highly unrelated :) |
| 05:58.30 | menotume | weeee |
| 05:58.43 | SportChick | tofu: meanie |
| 05:59.32 | tofu | i think the just lost sagonet.com, and that hung some router that was using their DNS .. switcher over to a different DNS so clients would be restored |
| 05:59.32 | SportChick | I need to find some windows to close :( |
| 06:00.06 | menotume | is it raining ? |
| 06:00.23 | essy | it's raining open windows with activity hilights |
| 06:06.26 | menotume | ~tofu |
| 06:06.36 | menotume | ~dict tofu |
| 06:08.35 | JeffM2503 | did we get in? |
| 06:09.09 | menotume | over 3 mins for ibot :) |
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| 09:15.26 | mmu_man | ohh... http://code.google.com/soc/bzflag/about.html :) |
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| 12:00.46 | brlcad | so, we did get accepted |
| 12:03.12 | brlcad | http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/wiki/index.php/Getting_Help || Paste to http://bzflag.pastebin.ca || http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9453 || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/bzflag/bzflag || BZFlag is participating in the 2007 Google Summer of Code and we will are accepting student applications |
| 12:03.41 | KTL | we will are? |
| 12:04.03 | brlcad | it's a collective will |
| 12:04.11 | brlcad | http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/wiki/index.php/Getting_Help || Paste to http://bzflag.pastebin.ca || http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9453 || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/bzflag/bzflag || BZFlag is participating in the 2007 Google Summer of Code and we are accepting student applications |
| 12:04.30 | Chestal | brlcad: good work! |
| 12:04.35 | KTL | Mentoring Organizations |
| 12:05.06 | donny_baker | Should we add it to TMOD ;) |
| 12:05.18 | brlcad | Chestal: thanks, though now that means we actually gotta do work *sniff* :) |
| 12:06.46 | ts | Currently the message of the day is unavailable |
| 12:08.39 | *** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=Baronado@207.126.1.7) |
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| 12:46.46 | *** join/#bzflag Lord (n=549e8f2f@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 12:46.57 | Lord | hi all |
| 12:47.24 | Lord | I need some help with my bzflag on kubuntu-6.10 |
| 12:47.56 | Lord | the sounds are played very very fast |
| 12:48.16 | TheRedBaron | Lord: 64bit hardware? |
| 12:48.22 | Lord | no |
| 12:48.51 | Lord | soundcard c-media cmi8738 |
| 12:49.09 | Lord | other sounds are played normal |
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| 12:57.50 | TheRedBaron | ts: ping? |
| 12:58.16 | uso | ~bzflist |
| 13:05.24 | TheRedBaron | Lord: Sorry No one's helped you, you could post here http://my.bzflag.org/bb/ |
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| 14:13.57 | brlcad | ts: that's too small of a project |
| 14:15.17 | brlcad | that's really just a bug that shouldn't take more than a few days at worst, an hour or two at best .. just a matter of tracing through the code that does per-frame updates and make them dt-based instead |
| 14:18.04 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o brlcad] by ChanServ |
| 14:19.58 | donny_baker | brlcad: don't forget to change the wiki front page "Google" section when you have time |
| 14:26.52 | KTL | Google will pay you to write code for BZFlag 8] |
| 14:27.36 | ruskie | cause else they'll have to pay huge taxes most likely |
| 14:27.45 | KTL | to get rid of excessive amounts of money or what? |
| 14:28.02 | ruskie | excessive profit |
| 14:32.06 | ruskie | I'm guessing they can handle this something like giving to charity |
| 14:32.13 | Manu | hi KTL |
| 14:32.15 | ruskie | so it's probably tax exempt etc... |
| 14:32.22 | KTL | hi Manu :) |
| 14:34.03 | ruskie | but then I don't like google nor their money... |
| 14:34.55 | KTL | euhm, take what is offered for free, common wishdom :) |
| 14:35.13 | *** join/#bzflag ep (n=mdr@about/essy/guynextdoor/ep) |
| 14:35.15 | TheRedBaron | ruskie: whats wrong with google? |
| 14:36.02 | *** join/#bzflag chickin (n=chickin@66-191-163-188.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) |
| 14:36.49 | KTL | that devinfo file ... i should have known about it years ago. |
| 14:36.52 | SportChick | brlcad: congrats on being accepted to Google's SoC |
| 14:36.57 | ts | TheRedBaron: Google is evil, they're collecting too many data |
| 14:37.18 | TheRedBaron | oh? |
| 14:37.23 | TheRedBaron | google = big brother? |
| 14:37.29 | ts | basically |
| 14:37.43 | TheRedBaron | lol |
| 14:37.43 | KTL | it is what you do with your power that makes you evil |
| 14:37.53 | KTL | can make * |
| 14:37.58 | ts | in the united states of north america they are even collecting more data than here |
| 14:38.16 | ts | here some data is forbidden to be collected.. |
| 14:38.28 | TheRedBaron | data/information = evil? |
| 14:38.44 | TheRedBaron | or data collection = evil? |
| 14:39.00 | KTL | The United States of North America (USNA) is a fictitious country in A Mind Forever Voyaging (AMFV), a science fiction text adventure game by Infocom set in the year 2031. |
| 14:39.01 | ts | Well, the information is not evil, the problem is when one has too many data |
| 14:39.18 | ts | like why should Google store fingerprints? |
| 14:39.46 | TheRedBaron | ts: where does one draw the line of - too much data? |
| 14:40.09 | KTL | many people dislike GM unless they have it :) |
| 14:40.13 | ts | That depends on opinions |
| 14:40.15 | TheRedBaron | yup |
| 14:40.28 | TheRedBaron | logs = collection of data = evil? |
| 14:40.45 | inchworm | google wants to be able tl seel search utilities to government agencies.. therefore they need a test dataset? |
| 14:41.03 | inchworm | hrm,,, tl seel => to sell |
| 14:42.19 | TheRedBaron | KTL: everyone hates a camper, yet everyone is guilty of camping. :) |
| 14:43.11 | TheRedBaron | KTL: the question is, do you self-hate? :D |
| 14:43.42 | KTL | it remains difficult! you attract ... bounty hunters after a while |
| 14:43.49 | KTL | people ONLY interested in killing you |
| 14:43.55 | KTL | for a whole afternoon! |
| 14:44.00 | TheRedBaron | yup :) |
| 14:44.05 | KTL | oleg grmbl |
| 14:44.07 | inchworm | makes camping more difficult then |
| 14:44.15 | KTL | some guy called oleg, if i get him in my hands |
| 14:44.31 | KTL | but i remember them :) |
| 14:44.42 | TheRedBaron | camping can be too easy, the fun comes in hunting the camper :) |
| 14:44.52 | KTL | so for the rest of eternity they have a serious problem in servers where i am |
| 14:45.01 | TheRedBaron | to level the playing field, to overcome the advantages |
| 14:45.48 | donny_baker | I always hunt the camper, don't really care about the score, it is a satisfying endevour :) |
| 14:45.49 | KTL | the problem for the specialised camper is when there are lots of attackers, some with wings, wings is a terrible flag |
| 14:45.57 | TheRedBaron | ~wings-- |
| 14:46.00 | TheRedBaron | ~lart wings |
| 14:46.27 | KTL | bryjen another one ! |
| 14:46.40 | KTL | is he logged in? no mmm |
| 14:46.41 | TheRedBaron | and because of _gmactivationtime, gm is useless when the come in close |
| 14:46.50 | KTL | yes, terrible |
| 14:46.51 | TheRedBaron | ~lart _gmactivationtime |
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| 14:47.33 | TheRedBaron | people don't realize that GM had its own "anti camper" device installed |
| 14:47.53 | KTL | that you kill the owners of gm who don't realize that property is ok to me, but still, with wings you can get them if they are specialised extremely |
| 14:48.04 | *** join/#bzflag a_temp_dist (n=ATD@about/essy/alarming/a-temp-dist) |
| 14:48.34 | KTL | then I get complaints if I shoot the wings because i threw the gm away the last millisecond |
| 14:48.46 | KTL | "you are not supposed to do that!" |
| 14:48.57 | ts | Heh |
| 14:49.35 | ts | They often feel so save near the GM and even tease with standing around 1 second before shooting |
| 14:49.57 | ts | but nothing that can be done with me ;) |
| 14:49.59 | KTL | hehe bad habit :) |
| 14:50.05 | brlcad | ts: they do it for the visibility and public relations, it's utterly massive positive marketing compared to how much it costs |
| 14:50.18 | ts | though somethings, I do tease 'em, too |
| 14:50.40 | KTL | google does a lot of pr-effort |
| 14:51.03 | KTL | at universities they throw candy all around |
| 14:51.06 | KTL | at conferences idem |
| 14:51.17 | KTL | i got a jojo from them with light flashes |
| 14:51.37 | ts | In Germany there is no such stuff |
| 14:52.28 | ts | The only reason I use Google is when I search for German content then there is no good alternative |
| 14:52.40 | KTL | what else? altavista? |
| 14:52.50 | KTL | what is your default? |
| 14:52.57 | ts | a9 |
| 14:53.52 | KTL | There was a problem processing your search request. Please try again later. |
| 14:53.54 | KTL | ahum |
| 14:55.30 | TheRedBaron | why does a9 have the amazon smiley? |
| 14:55.38 | TheRedBaron | subsidy? |
| 14:56.58 | TheRedBaron | apparently so |
| 15:00.53 | ts | KTL: At my university we get things like free coffe, college blocks and cheap internet connection offerings |
| 15:01.24 | ts | so more basic things ;) |
| 15:01.51 | ruskie | I see I'm not the only person who dislikes google |
| 15:04.38 | ruskie | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6453137.stm <-- speaking of google |
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| 15:51.01 | *** join/#bzflag daxxar (i=daxxar@daxxar.com) |
| 15:51.17 | daxxar | Hi. =) |
| 15:54.15 | donny_baker | daxxar: hi |
| 15:54.32 | TheRedBaron | brlcad: ping |
| 15:55.01 | LongDon | trb: hehe |
| 15:55.09 | TheRedBaron | LongDon: :D |
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| 16:08.55 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501) |
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| 16:14.36 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, you arround? |
| 16:15.07 | TheRedBaron | no answer |
| 16:17.36 | JeffM2501 | he's at work or asleep then |
| 16:22.54 | Manu | brlcad, the most wanted :) |
| 16:37.46 | JeffM2501 | looks like we got accepted into summer of code. |
| 16:38.55 | Manu | yes we are |
| 16:39.29 | JeffM2501 | how many mentors did he get? |
| 16:39.35 | JeffM2501 | more then him and me? |
| 16:39.45 | Manu | and me |
| 16:39.51 | donny_baker | I think he said it was just you ;P |
| 16:40.26 | Manu | JeffM2501: but the aprove is still pending |
| 16:40.31 | Manu | first google must aprove it |
| 16:40.35 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 16:40.58 | Manu | he said 6 or 7 mentors IIRC |
| 16:40.59 | JeffM2501 | do they have to approve the mentors? or the proijects? |
| 16:41.02 | JeffM2501 | wow |
| 16:41.11 | JeffM2501 | where did he find that many? :) |
| 16:41.13 | Manu | the project is accepted AFAIK |
| 16:41.21 | Manu | dunno :) |
| 16:41.27 | Manu | probably here ;) |
| 16:42.27 | Manu | they must approve the mentors |
| 16:43.44 | JeffM2501 | do the students pick there projects? |
| 16:43.59 | Manu | dunno |
| 16:44.08 | Manu | probably yes |
| 16:44.15 | JeffM2501 | I'd hope so |
| 16:44.33 | Manu | then we must accept them I guess |
| 16:52.05 | JeffM2501 | aperantly I get a t-shirt outa the deal too |
| 16:52.25 | JeffM2501 | tho that would suck if they didn't accept me |
| 16:55.03 | daxxar | Hey |
| 16:55.07 | *** join/#bzflag Erroneous (n=dtremena@67-131-219-2.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 16:55.08 | Manu | yep |
| 16:55.58 | daxxar | The students propose projects (either by their own creativity or from your suggested projects) in their application, and you 'rank' each application. Then google reviews and allows the top N students to attend your project, where N is the number of slots you get. :-) |
| 16:56.26 | JeffM2501 | ahh ok |
| 16:56.31 | JeffM2501 | sounds cool enough |
| 16:56.48 | daxxar | Yeah. I'm thinking about applying for the headless client project you guys suggested. |
| 16:56.54 | daxxar | Looks like a cool project and a neat idea. :D |
| 16:57.12 | JeffM2501 | yeah some work was started on it but never finished |
| 16:57.25 | JeffM2501 | there is also a server side bot API that was 1/2 done |
| 16:57.34 | JeffM2501 | where bots are loaded as plugins |
| 16:58.18 | JeffM2501 | that's harder tho, as there is not enough state info on the server yet to do a good bot |
| 16:58.30 | daxxar | But that could improve performance, I guess. :-) |
| 16:58.41 | daxxar | And load on the server |
| 16:58.48 | JeffM2501 | mostly it'd be fore server owners that want to fill in there games with bot players |
| 16:58.51 | JeffM2501 | like UT does |
| 16:58.58 | JeffM2501 | instead of making it a client choice |
| 16:59.06 | daxxar | Yep |
| 16:59.07 | JeffM2501 | but both have valid uses. |
| 16:59.31 | JeffM2501 | the headless client is intended mostly for students to learn about AI in classes |
| 16:59.37 | JeffM2501 | headless bot AI duels. |
| 17:00.01 | daxxar | Yeah. You could have some kind of league or ranking system too, ;-) |
| 17:00.07 | JeffM2501 | we do |
| 17:00.16 | daxxar | Exclusively for bots, I mean |
| 17:00.16 | JeffM2501 | there are a number of leauges with rankings |
| 17:00.19 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 17:00.34 | daxxar | Where the goal isn't as much to be a great BZFlag-player as a great coder ;-) |
| 17:00.41 | ts | You could just make two bot player only teams in a league |
| 17:00.49 | JeffM2501 | well at that point they'd just cheat ;) |
| 17:01.21 | daxxar | JeffM2501: Well, you could have it sandboxed, so the client is unchangeable, but e.g. script-bindings are exposed. |
| 17:01.29 | daxxar | And you upload the script to the 'sandbox' server. |
| 17:01.30 | JeffM2501 | ahh, script |
| 17:01.33 | ts | I can think they might be able to beat actual players in ducati |
| 17:01.37 | JeffM2501 | yeah if it was done with scripting |
| 17:02.03 | JeffM2501 | we dont' have any script language bindings at this point |
| 17:02.19 | *** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=Baron@fl-71-49-1-173.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 17:02.55 | daxxar | JeffM2501: I'm btw referring to the idea posted at: http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code#Headless_Artificial_Intelligence_Agent |
| 17:03.21 | JeffM2501 | ahh, he updated it |
| 17:03.22 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 17:03.47 | JeffM2501 | be sweet to have it scripted |
| 17:03.56 | JeffM2501 | then also hook that scritping suport into the server |
| 17:04.03 | JeffM2501 | then the same bot could run on ether side :) |
| 17:04.29 | daxxar | Yep :) |
| 17:04.30 | JeffM2501 | once we had a full server side state, that woudn't be too hard |
| 17:05.09 | daxxar | So, basically, I want to apply for that project idea. =) |
| 17:05.17 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 17:05.36 | daxxar | Just need to write a CV in english, write an application, write an abstract, etcetera. :-) |
| 17:06.00 | ts | I'm a bit afraid of client scripting..couldn't that be abused to have a human player with enhanced capabilities? |
| 17:07.17 | JeffM2501 | ts, depends how it's done |
| 17:07.25 | JeffM2501 | I'd be more afraid of client mods |
| 17:07.41 | JeffM2501 | if the scripting is only enabled in a headless bot build, then it's no bigie |
| 17:07.42 | ts | and spamming |
| 17:07.47 | JeffM2501 | you worry too much |
| 17:07.54 | JeffM2501 | worry about the now ;) |
| 17:08.07 | JeffM2501 | ts, if somone wanted to do that, they'd mod the client |
| 17:08.29 | ts | JeffM2501: With scripting it would be save across different versions |
| 17:08.37 | JeffM2501 | so |
| 17:08.47 | JeffM2501 | the chat inteface has been the same in C forever |
| 17:08.58 | JeffM2501 | you can't stop inovation just cus you worry about things |
| 17:09.03 | JeffM2501 | that may hapen |
| 17:09.22 | JeffM2501 | we don't see moded spam clients now, at all. scripting for a bot client ain't going to add that. |
| 17:09.28 | ts | With scripting we support stability, with direct client patch it can change |
| 17:09.44 | JeffM2501 | make it ID as a bot |
| 17:09.46 | JeffM2501 | we have the bot bit |
| 17:09.51 | JeffM2501 | then servers can disallow them |
| 17:10.04 | Erroneous | client-side bots can't do anything that client-side humans can't. |
| 17:10.18 | Erroneous | if client-side humans can do too much, then we need to fix THAT, not add arbitrary restrictions on bots |
| 17:10.26 | JeffM2501 | indeed |
| 17:10.41 | ts | I'm not worrying about the server side bots |
| 17:10.52 | JeffM2501 | we know |
| 17:10.52 | ts | I like that idea |
| 17:10.59 | JeffM2501 | your saying a client side bot can spam |
| 17:11.04 | JeffM2501 | a client side HUMAN can spam |
| 17:11.10 | JeffM2501 | if that's a problem, then we fix it |
| 17:11.11 | daxxar | In any case, you can hardly claim that adding scripting-support to a headless client will allow something that an opensource project doesn't already allow ;) |
| 17:11.22 | JeffM2501 | daxxar, exactly |
| 17:11.32 | JeffM2501 | if somone wanted to do that stuff, they ain't waiting on scripting |
| 17:11.34 | ts | JeffM2501: Clients can be automated, humans can't ;) |
| 17:11.44 | JeffM2501 | ts, They can be automated NOW |
| 17:11.48 | JeffM2501 | and they arn't |
| 17:11.56 | Erroneous | heh, yes they are :P |
| 17:12.00 | JeffM2501 | well yes |
| 17:12.05 | JeffM2501 | but scripting ain't gonna change that |
| 17:12.10 | ts | because it's too difficult for the script kiddies |
| 17:12.12 | Erroneous | I've seen a couple with autospam mods |
| 17:12.24 | Erroneous | but servers have the ability to do spam prevention |
| 17:12.31 | Erroneous | server owners just need to turn it on |
| 17:12.33 | JeffM2501 | ts, and you think that by adding a headless scriptable AI bot we will get more spambots? |
| 17:12.45 | JeffM2501 | to the point where server side spam fiters won't work? |
| 17:13.01 | ts | It's one possibility |
| 17:13.14 | JeffM2501 | there are infinate posibilities |
| 17:13.21 | JeffM2501 | if your going to seak up on it like that, have a case |
| 17:13.24 | JeffM2501 | not generalities |
| 17:13.30 | JeffM2501 | do you think it will be a real concern? |
| 17:13.53 | ts | I don't see servers running spam protection options |
| 17:13.53 | Erroneous | goodness. Google's mentor TOS is full of typos and stuff :S |
| 17:13.55 | JeffM2501 | I mean cus your basicly shotin this guy's project down. |
| 17:14.07 | JeffM2501 | cus of a posibility |
| 17:14.11 | *** join/#bzflag Gravel (n=4cd017e7@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 17:14.40 | JeffM2501 | sure, it's a concern during implemenation, but that's all it is at the most. |
| 17:14.56 | ts | it's nice to have but then we need to make the server owners using spam protection |
| 17:15.11 | JeffM2501 | we can't make server owners do anything |
| 17:15.13 | *** join/#bzflag Gravel (n=4cd017e7@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 17:15.23 | JeffM2501 | how bout we see if there is a problem with it first ;) |
| 17:15.24 | ts | right now they don't because /lagstats is counted as spam |
| 17:15.36 | JeffM2501 | then fix the spam stuff ;) |
| 17:15.37 | ts | so it kicks their admins most |
| 17:15.59 | ts | That's one thing I would be willing to do ;) |
| 17:16.16 | JeffM2501 | my big question for blrcad is, does he expect this all to be done in 2.1 or 2.0.x? |
| 17:16.31 | Erroneous | 2.1 |
| 17:16.32 | JeffM2501 | I'd hope it'd be |
| 17:17.28 | Erroneous | 2.0 is dead. gone. passed on. pinin' for the fjords.... |
| 17:17.34 | JeffM2501 | indeed |
| 17:17.36 | daxxar | The fjords! |
| 17:17.47 | JeffM2501 | we just need to make sure everyone knows that who works on the proejct |
| 17:17.54 | JeffM2501 | for the SOC thing |
| 17:18.08 | Gravel | hee hee i tried the pre-alpha |
| 17:18.08 | Erroneous | yup |
| 17:18.18 | Erroneous | they will |
| 17:20.01 | Erroneous | heh |
| 17:21.24 | daxxar | Oh well, brb, do some chores. My apartment looks kinda ... unpleasant. :p |
| 17:22.57 | TheRedBaron | ~revive 2.0 |
| 17:23.09 | ibot | ACTION performs the Heimlich, mouth-to-mouth, shock treatment and anything else necessary to revive 2.0 |
| 17:24.15 | brlcad | TheRedBaron: pong |
| 17:24.33 | TheRedBaron | hrm, what was my question i had for you... |
| 17:25.27 | brlcad | JeffM2501: just chattin' with coworkers about nothing important .. :) |
| 17:28.28 | brlcad | to answer, i'd expect 2.1 /me agrees "2.0 is dead. gone." etc |
| 17:30.23 | JeffM2501 | I think it should/has to be 2.1 |
| 17:43.38 | brlcad | they are all being told that they *have* to interact in here with everyone, just like everyone else |
| 17:43.40 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 17:43.51 | brlcad | not just ninja coding through the night, dropping some mod in our laps without discussing |
| 17:44.19 | brlcad | basic same treatment/expectation as any other dev |
| 17:44.48 | JeffM2501 | would we give them commit access? |
| 17:44.59 | JeffM2501 | or are they to submit a thing at the end? |
| 17:45.06 | JeffM2501 | or should we set up a branch for them or something? |
| 17:46.10 | JBdiGriz | Set up a staging branch where we can review, but they understand the importance of keeping a valid tree. |
| 17:46.14 | brlcad | depends on the project and person I think, probably have a better grasp when we start reviewing the proposals |
| 17:47.02 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: part of the idea of SoC is to give exposure to the "normal process"...I think part of that includes "submit a few patches and then we'll think about giving you commit access" |
| 17:47.06 | brlcad | a branch would probably be very much a good thing, maybe even make it 2.3 |
| 17:47.10 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 17:47.24 | TheRedBaron | and 2.1 because the next 1.8? |
| 17:47.29 | TheRedBaron | *becomes |
| 17:47.50 | Erroneous | brlcad: why not work directly on 2.1? |
| 17:47.50 | TheRedBaron | yes, believe it or not, english is my first language :( |
| 17:47.57 | brlcad | it would be nice to move towards stabilizing 2.1, so we can release it |
| 17:48.06 | brlcad | we're well over due and fairly filled with changes |
| 17:48.34 | JBdiGriz | Has anyone moved any state to server side? |
| 17:48.57 | Erroneous | really? I wasn't aware of a lot of significant changes. or are we planning on breaking protocol more frequently now? |
| 17:49.05 | JeffM2501 | server has some DR now JBD |
| 17:49.12 | JeffM2501 | and does the death calc for water |
| 17:49.17 | JeffM2501 | shots need to be moved still. |
| 17:49.42 | JBdiGriz | I should check out the branch and see what has happened. I've been rather distracted lately. |
| 17:50.02 | ts | Didn't happen much lately, either |
| 17:50.07 | JeffM2501 | flag pickups and stuff are server side |
| 17:50.10 | JeffM2501 | as well as pauses |
| 17:50.13 | JeffM2501 | and shot types |
| 17:50.20 | JeffM2501 | so some stuff is slowly moving over. |
| 17:51.34 | brlcad | about 70 "features" or so .. and that's not even counting most of the changes JeffM2501's done |
| 17:51.44 | JeffM2501 | I've done things? |
| 17:52.10 | JeffM2501 | I made a plugin that's sure to piss people off :) |
| 17:52.52 | TheRedBaron | ~lart JeffM2501 |
| 17:52.55 | JBdiGriz | You're good at that. |
| 17:53.16 | JeffM2501 | it's my gift :) |
| 17:53.33 | JeffM2501 | machine gun laser is FUN I tell you |
| 17:53.42 | JBdiGriz | I like the description of bzflag in the summer of code. I hope you don't disappoint the applicants. ;) |
| 17:55.00 | JeffM2501 | geno SW, is not so fun :( |
| 17:55.28 | JeffM2501 | should make geno a shot type, then it can't be mixed |
| 17:55.29 | brlcad | server DR, plugin enhancements (though that borderlines dev), death calcs, other server-side migrations |
| 17:55.54 | JeffM2501 | only one death calc is server side |
| 17:55.57 | JeffM2501 | and man is it lagy |
| 17:57.22 | JeffM2501 | I thik I need to do the same thing that flag grab does, have the client send an update when it goes bellow the level, to help limit the lag. |
| 17:57.55 | JeffM2501 | or get the state on the server to be cleaner, it dosn't do gravity |
| 17:58.06 | Erroneous | doesn't do gravity? |
| 17:58.19 | Erroneous | hm, did anyone ever review that per-tank gravity patch? |
| 17:58.54 | JeffM2501 | the DR on the server dosn't take the jump/land/fly state into account, and dosn't add in gravity as they fall |
| 17:58.58 | JeffM2501 | so it's not accurate |
| 17:59.03 | JeffM2501 | it just uses the last vector |
| 17:59.06 | JeffM2501 | linearly |
| 17:59.27 | donny_baker | JeffM2501: tired of blender? |
| 17:59.47 | JeffM2501 | I don't think the average user can "get" blender |
| 17:59.58 | JeffM2501 | too many inconsitent interfaces. |
| 18:00.25 | JeffM2501 | it's the perfect way we should go for editing |
| 18:00.38 | JeffM2501 | but I don't know if blender is at a point where anyone can use it. |
| 18:00.51 | JeffM2501 | I'm using gtkradiant, and unrealed as my guides |
| 18:01.17 | donny_baker | it does take quite a while to "get" blender, that's for sure |
| 18:01.54 | donny_baker | and most of the munchkins want to make maps, and I think blender kind of impeeds their progress |
| 18:02.01 | JeffM2501 | it's odd how every 3d modeler in the world seems to want to come up with it's own interface ideas |
| 18:02.22 | JeffM2501 | you don't see that tendency with word processors |
| 18:02.51 | donny_baker | well, word processors are a more mature product |
| 18:02.51 | ruskie | I'm happy with the plaintext map description language... :) |
| 18:03.01 | Erroneous | 3d is more complex than print layout |
| 18:03.04 | ruskie | but then I'm used to povray and stuff... |
| 18:03.09 | JeffM2501 | ruskie, and how long does it take you to make meshes? |
| 18:03.17 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, that it is |
| 18:03.24 | ruskie | Erroneous, then why do so many word processors just suck? |
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| 18:03.53 | Erroneous | ruskie: do they suck because of the interface? or because of the misfeatures/lack of features? |
| 18:03.53 | donny_baker | ruskie: poor UI, that is why most apps suck |
| 18:04.33 | tupone_laptop | brlcad, hola |
| 18:04.40 | daxxar | Ah. Beer and pizza. <3 |
| 18:04.42 | ruskie | Erroneous, both |
| 18:05.36 | donny_baker | a bad UI will sink an app, even if it is great code |
| 18:05.36 | JeffM2501 | it does depend on what our map making goals are, do we want it to be hard? or something that most users can pick up |
| 18:05.59 | tupone_laptop | gis |
| 18:06.02 | tupone_laptop | his |
| 18:06.07 | tupone_laptop | :) |
| 18:06.15 | Erroneous | no, it should not be hard, JeffM2501. the harder it is the more support we end up providing. |
| 18:06.17 | JeffM2501 | he spent all his time, hacking into your messages |
| 18:06.22 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, indeed |
| 18:06.38 | JeffM2501 | a map layout tool ( not a modeler ) would help a lot of people I think |
| 18:06.44 | Erroneous | unless we can shove the support off on another project, like say...blender! :) |
| 18:06.58 | JeffM2501 | if blender was easier to use, I'd agree |
| 18:07.08 | JeffM2501 | they just bounce back now |
| 18:07.13 | Erroneous | yeah :( |
| 18:07.28 | JeffM2501 | the popularity of wings shows that is editor complexity that gets em. |
| 18:07.30 | tupone_laptop | 3ds then |
| 18:07.58 | Erroneous | hmm, not enough disk space to install GC... :) |
| 18:08.13 | JeffM2501 | I'm just thinking of something that allows for object placeement, grouping, materials, and phydrivs and stuff. |
| 18:08.32 | JeffM2501 | dosn't need to be facny, just let them pull the parts from difrent places visualy. |
| 18:08.45 | ruskie | and still keep the plaintext format? |
| 18:09.06 | JeffM2501 | yeah yeah |
| 18:09.15 | JeffM2501 | just an app to read / write it |
| 18:09.27 | ruskie | that'd be kinda nice |
| 18:09.28 | JeffM2501 | a better bzedit |
| 18:09.38 | JeffM2501 | that is lossless :) |
| 18:09.45 | tupone_laptop | continuing with my pro-CS campaign, I would go with CS xml as a world description |
| 18:09.51 | tupone_laptop | :) |
| 18:09.53 | brlcad | ciao tupone |
| 18:10.00 | tupone_laptop | ciao brlcad |
| 18:10.06 | tupone_laptop | did you read it? |
| 18:10.10 | JeffM2501 | that is a posibility, tho we'd have to have a way to convert |
| 18:10.22 | JeffM2501 | the blender BZW tools would allow for that conversion. |
| 18:10.26 | JeffM2501 | so it's not a bad thing |
| 18:10.33 | tupone_laptop | xml can comes from blender, 3ds, quake ... |
| 18:10.37 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:10.38 | ruskie | other than that xml is NOT human friendly |
| 18:10.40 | tupone_laptop | lot of converter |
| 18:10.49 | JeffM2501 | tupone_laptop, I meant from old maps |
| 18:10.57 | JeffM2501 | if we invalidate old maps, we will be killed |
| 18:11.09 | brlcad | tupone_laptop: not yet :) |
| 18:11.14 | brlcad | and got no notify |
| 18:11.14 | Erroneous | lych mobs! |
| 18:11.21 | brlcad | i never get notifys for some reason |
| 18:11.22 | tupone_laptop | I will convert it now, runtime, not in xml, but in runtime method calling |
| 18:11.44 | tupone_laptop | now means in a few weeks |
| 18:12.02 | JeffM2501 | tho I do wonder how CS will do the sun/sky stuff |
| 18:12.11 | JeffM2501 | can it recompute it's lightmaps at runtime? |
| 18:12.26 | JeffM2501 | or do they have a realtime shadow system? |
| 18:12.26 | tupone_laptop | it can go with lightmap or without |
| 18:12.34 | JeffM2501 | what do they have for shadows without? |
| 18:12.42 | tupone_laptop | I have to check |
| 18:12.47 | JeffM2501 | ether that or we ditch the time of day thing. |
| 18:12.55 | JeffM2501 | and let the map specify it |
| 18:13.28 | JeffM2501 | irrlicht has shadow volumes |
| 18:13.34 | JeffM2501 | I've been playing with them, they are kinda cool |
| 18:13.43 | tupone_laptop | JeffM2501, have you seen my world now? |
| 18:13.53 | JeffM2501 | I saw your updated screenshot on the wiki |
| 18:14.19 | tupone_laptop | yeah, but that is a box, I don't know if I should make a dome :/ |
| 18:14.33 | JeffM2501 | skybox would be best I think |
| 18:14.44 | JeffM2501 | did you see my shadow experiemnt? |
| 18:14.52 | tupone_laptop | nope, where? |
| 18:14.56 | JeffM2501 | http://www.opencombat.net/files/images/shadows.jpg |
| 18:15.07 | brlcad | tupone_laptop: read, but not sure I understand.. you were supposed to get/respond :) |
| 18:15.19 | brlcad | you don't have to either |
| 18:15.25 | tupone_laptop | I did |
| 18:15.32 | tupone_laptop | I get and answer |
| 18:15.33 | brlcad | good :) |
| 18:16.02 | tupone_laptop | but as I specified you, maybe my time could be very limited, maybe I need a backup |
| 18:16.23 | tupone_laptop | just in case |
| 18:16.28 | brlcad | yep, I don't think that's a problem |
| 18:16.31 | JeffM2501 | I don't think they asign people to you, they get set tot the project, and we all help them. |
| 18:16.35 | brlcad | we don't have any applications yet regardless ;) |
| 18:17.41 | tupone_laptop | ok |
| 18:18.28 | tupone_laptop | JeffM2501, how they are done? with CS? |
| 18:18.42 | JeffM2501 | that was done with shadow volumes in irrlicht |
| 18:18.43 | tupone_laptop | shadow I meant |
| 18:18.44 | brlcad | there is going to be someone designated as their "official" mentor/POC, but in practice it should be everyone here like usual -- the 'official mentor' just might need to help write up their final evaluation |
| 18:18.46 | JeffM2501 | was very simple |
| 18:18.50 | JeffM2501 | in there API |
| 18:18.58 | JeffM2501 | I'm trying to learn the CS API to do the same thing |
| 18:19.00 | JeffM2501 | to compare them |
| 18:19.14 | brlcad | our quantity of mentors will also have a bearing on how many slots we're approved for |
| 18:19.24 | tupone_laptop | I'm trying to decode all the elements in the xml |
| 18:19.42 | brlcad | they recognize it often boils down to an IRC channel full of people helping |
| 18:19.43 | JeffM2501 | that's one thing I don't like about CS, all the XML and extra files |
| 18:19.54 | JeffM2501 | seems to make it hard to do it all dynamicly |
| 18:20.18 | tupone_laptop | you can do all without xml, as I did at the beginning |
| 18:20.39 | JeffM2501 | yeah I'm just trying to see how |
| 18:20.46 | tupone_laptop | or you can change things that are loaded from xml |
| 18:20.54 | JeffM2501 | I'm trying not be biased ether |
| 18:20.57 | JeffM2501 | so I'm taking it slow |
| 18:21.11 | brlcad | within 10 days, we'll probably have more submissions than we care for, but we'll see |
| 18:21.53 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03t-s * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsChatVerify.cxx: Do not count commands (like /lagstats ) as spam |
| 18:22.16 | tupone_laptop | who are the mentors up to now? |
| 18:24.59 | donny_baker | sry, jumping back... should be pretty easy to creat an xlst to convert map files to xml, and a simple interface to convert back and forth |
| 18:25.57 | brlcad | tupone_laptop: right now, "nobody" as there's a bug on their mentor management page ;) |
| 18:26.08 | JeffM2501 | I hit the link and filled it out, did it fail? |
| 18:26.11 | JeffM2501 | or you can't approve me |
| 18:26.14 | brlcad | they're working on fixing it, but eveyone will be pending till they fix |
| 18:26.19 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 18:26.21 | brlcad | can't even see you |
| 18:27.51 | Erroneous | you'd think they'd have, y'know, tested it or something |
| 18:28.16 | Erroneous | it didn't autoselect bzflag for me either, like their docs said it would |
| 18:28.35 | Erroneous | and their TOS could use a bit of proofreading |
| 18:28.38 | pending | hmmm, the "Headless AI Agent" could be used to put cheat detection in server ? |
| 18:29.03 | JeffM2501 | pending, only you'd put a state in the server |
| 18:29.10 | JeffM2501 | kinda a roundabout way |
| 18:29.14 | pending | ya |
| 18:29.20 | JeffM2501 | better to just say "make the server not suck" |
| 18:29.23 | JeffM2501 | and fix the proto |
| 18:29.51 | JeffM2501 | no need to make it more complex then it has to be |
| 18:30.13 | brlcad | not suck == blows? |
| 18:30.19 | pending | lol |
| 18:30.25 | pending | 'suck less' |
| 18:30.27 | JeffM2501 | suck less |
| 18:32.11 | Manu | pending: your approve is still pending ;) |
| 18:32.17 | brlcad | so the next question is how many kids could we actually reasonably sustain support for over the summer |
| 18:32.47 | pending | i could handle, ohhh, 5 1-yo hotties |
| 18:32.56 | pending | eppppppp 18-yo |
| 18:33.00 | brlcad | eewww :) |
| 18:33.09 | pending | what a typo |
| 18:33.18 | TheRedBaron | yea.... |
| 18:33.28 | TheRedBaron | bash.org? :) |
| 18:33.34 | JeffM2501 | I think that rules out pending as a mentor |
| 18:33.51 | pending | lol |
| 18:33.53 | JeffM2501 | how many slots would be "average" for a project of this size |
| 18:33.59 | JeffM2501 | 1-2 per mentor? |
| 18:34.10 | JeffM2501 | as that seems reasonable |
| 18:34.29 | brlcad | roughly, yeah |
| 18:34.32 | JeffM2501 | probably 1 per, as not every mentor would be around |
| 18:34.36 | JeffM2501 | all the time |
| 18:34.43 | JeffM2501 | that'd give us decent coverage |
| 18:35.01 | brlcad | they're students, and very likely nowhere like a DTRemenak was so some might need a lot of hand holding or not |
| 18:35.10 | JeffM2501 | damn, this means I can't fork in good concience for like a couple months :( |
| 18:36.14 | brlcad | http://code.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=60325&topic=10729 |
| 18:37.10 | JeffM2501 | mehh.. I could always get pissy and storm out again |
| 18:37.12 | brlcad | so theoretically, the get involved/familiar in April/May .. then code June-July, the wrap up in August |
| 18:37.27 | JeffM2501 | mabe ask tim for his opinon, that always helps that mood |
| 18:37.33 | brlcad | er.. when did you ever storm out? |
| 18:37.39 | JeffM2501 | christmass |
| 18:37.44 | brlcad | this past? |
| 18:37.47 | JeffM2501 | no no |
| 18:37.53 | JeffM2501 | 3 ago IIRC |
| 18:37.55 | brlcad | oooh, like three/four |
| 18:37.57 | brlcad | yeah |
| 18:37.58 | brlcad | hehe |
| 18:38.11 | JeffM2501 | he realy pissed me off that time. |
| 18:38.32 | brlcad | ahh the good ol days |
| 18:38.41 | daxxar | :p |
| 18:38.49 | daxxar | Noo, all out of beer. *sigh* |
| 18:38.57 | brlcad | ~beer daxxar |
| 18:38.59 | ibot | ACTION pulls out a tasty Franziskaner Hefeweizen for daxxar |
| 18:39.21 | daxxar | A tasty *what*?! :o |
| 18:39.33 | JeffM2501 | I mean, when all you have to do is URL encode the freaking username and password, why would your first act be to say "well don't let them type in those characters"? |
| 18:39.36 | KTL | March 24: Student application deadline |
| 18:39.53 | brlcad | KTL: yep, they get just 10 days |
| 18:39.57 | brlcad | it's a mad rush |
| 18:40.12 | Erroneous | heh, you were just looking for an excuse to leave then anyway. straw that broke the camel's back and all. |
| 18:40.21 | JeffM2501 | indeed |
| 18:40.30 | brlcad | JeffM2501: ahh, was that what the argument was about? |
| 18:40.33 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:40.43 | JBdiGriz | Could you storm out without getting pissy? |
| 18:40.44 | JeffM2501 | mostly I was miffed cus he seemd to not care about the end user |
| 18:40.45 | brlcad | i remember arguing with him about that a long time too |
| 18:40.50 | JeffM2501 | JBdiGriz, if I was drunk |
| 18:40.54 | Erroneous | JBdiGriz: :) |
| 18:41.05 | KTL | lol, about the url encode, there is the player named A. from poland |
| 18:41.18 | JBdiGriz | Then you'd get pissed and storm out. |
| 18:41.20 | KTL | then the dot was forbidden or something |
| 18:41.23 | KTL | so he became A |
| 18:41.27 | JeffM2501 | still can't do the ABA |
| 18:41.34 | KTL | then he tried to register, 1 char was nog enough |
| 18:41.37 | JeffM2501 | tho I can do there india pale ale |
| 18:41.37 | brlcad | gah, can't even type |
| 18:41.38 | KTL | so he made it APL |
| 18:41.53 | Erroneous | KR was pretty peeved about the three-letter limit too |
| 18:42.04 | JeffM2501 | the IPA is rather good. |
| 18:42.05 | JBdiGriz | Come on down, and I'll introduce you to the Double Bastard, or the Oaken Bastard. |
| 18:42.20 | JeffM2501 | they as thick? |
| 18:42.25 | brlcad | JBdiGriz: I'll be in town soon enough |
| 18:42.34 | brlcad | we should have another shindig |
| 18:42.44 | Erroneous | woohoo |
| 18:42.57 | JeffM2501 | what for this time? |
| 18:42.58 | Erroneous | been a while |
| 18:43.11 | brlcad | siggraph's in SD |
| 18:43.13 | JBdiGriz | They are even more hoppy. Stone has a restaurant with quite a selection now. |
| 18:43.16 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 18:43.19 | JeffM2501 | it's that time again then |
| 18:45.25 | JBdiGriz | The food is quite pricey, but the beer is unbelievable. http://www.stoneworldbistro.com/menus/beer.pdf |
| 18:47.15 | pending | there's a bunch of mentors in the google-earth thingy |
| 18:47.38 | brlcad | JeffM2501: not "quite" that time.. still like 6 months away :) |
| 18:48.16 | Erroneous | pending: google-earth is a google project...when you have direct db access, you don't need a web app ;) |
| 18:49.10 | JBdiGriz | Erroneous: It's just a saved location marker, for the mentors and students. Anyone can do that without direct db access. |
| 18:50.31 | pending | yes, just means someone put the mentor info in |
| 18:50.59 | Erroneous | JBdiGriz: I seem to have misinterpreted something |
| 18:51.43 | Erroneous | pending: you are saying that the google earth MAP has mentors on it? |
| 18:52.21 | Erroneous | I didn't realize there was a 2k7 map available |
| 18:53.32 | pending | Ero, yes |
| 18:53.51 | pending | lemme find the link |
| 18:54.29 | JBdiGriz | You can download a kml file from the SOC web site. |
| 18:54.29 | pending | http://code.google.com/soc/soc_map.kml |
| 18:54.36 | pending | right |
| 18:54.56 | Erroneous | the website implies that that's the 2k6 map |
| 18:55.10 | Erroneous | We've also created a map <link> (requires Google Earth) of all 2006 mentors and student participants for your perusal. |
| 18:55.27 | JBdiGriz | Of course, one of the mentors appears to be living in the middle of the Atlantic. |
| 18:55.47 | Erroneous | and it is indeed a 2k6 map, pending |
| 18:55.59 | JeffM2501 | I put my location down |
| 18:56.09 | JeffM2501 | shoulda nudged it over to my truck too |
| 18:56.14 | JeffM2501 | as it shows up on hybrid mode |
| 18:56.26 | pending | ohhhhhhhhh |
| 18:56.33 | pending | silly pending |
| 18:56.56 | pending | what year is it anyway? :P |
| 18:57.10 | *** join/#bzflag Theme97 (n=Theme97@about/essy/phpwriter/Theme97) |
| 18:57.11 | JBdiGriz | Does anybody really know what time it is? |
| 18:57.19 | a_temp_dist | 1:57 |
| 18:57.33 | tupone_laptop | 19:57 |
| 18:58.48 | TheRedBaron | 15:00 ? |
| 18:58.59 | brad | 18:58 |
| 18:59.20 | Manu | 19:58 |
| 18:59.39 | JeffM2501 | lunchtime |
| 19:00.03 | ts | sb end |
| 19:00.09 | Manu | good :) |
| 19:00.11 | ts | oops |
| 19:00.24 | Manu | you are at the end :) |
| 19:00.29 | ts | I guess so |
| 19:00.31 | JeffM2501 | stupid poorly writen post processors :( |
| 19:01.11 | pending | does anybody really care ? |
| 19:01.20 | Erroneous | pick a point on the print with the puck |
| 19:06.39 | KTL | *kuche* wow is that google stuff 5000 euro? |
| 19:07.00 | KTL | 5000 dollar |
| 19:08.28 | pending | yes, but you have to give 50% to the mentors |
| 19:08.35 | KTL | aaa |
| 19:08.40 | pending | j/k :) |
| 19:08.45 | KTL | mmmmmmm :D |
| 19:10.22 | KTL | This task involves creating a clean stand-alone version of the game client that is headless <- ok that is somethin i was thinking about doing myself even in free time |
| 19:10.46 | KTL | because it sucks that i have to run the opengl too when i only want to do AI-experiments :D |
| 19:11.04 | KTL | mmm i miss something in the list of todo's |
| 19:11.10 | KTL | something very very important |
| 19:12.44 | KTL | the serverlist as it looks now is not so healthy, it should have multiple sortable columns, like votes per server, real players (no admins) logged in, number of bullets shot the last 10 minutes |
| 19:13.16 | KTL | it is not healthy because the way it is right now only a limited amount of server is really played at |
| 19:13.20 | *** join/#bzflag eTangenT (n=tangent@65.167.130.245) |
| 19:13.55 | *** join/#bzflag lodxcol (n=lodxcol@unaffiliated/lodxcol) |
| 19:14.05 | *** part/#bzflag Birdie (n=Birdie@brad.bz) |
| 19:14.07 | *** join/#bzflag Birdie (n=Birdie@brad.bz) |
| 19:14.57 | pending | wow, 'area 51' isn't too fuzzed out on google-map :) |
| 19:15.22 | KTL | looks nice yes |
| 19:15.49 | KTL | near there there are some covered circles, i think some nuclear bomd sites |
| 19:15.55 | KTL | bomb |
| 19:16.08 | blast007 | KTL: no, that's the UFOs |
| 19:16.12 | KTL | :) |
| 19:16.18 | blast007 | or the crop circles! |
| 19:16.37 | blast007 | or the alien cross breeding labratory! |
| 19:17.50 | KTL | ah if you want to see something really strange |
| 19:17.53 | KTL | north africa |
| 19:17.56 | KTL | also circles |
| 19:22.16 | KTL | that* |
| 19:22.43 | pending | err, ya :) |
| 19:22.51 | KTL | found them |
| 19:23.01 | blast007 | KTL: zoom out, it will get smaller |
| 19:23.09 | blast007 | ;) |
| 19:23.18 | KTL | 26°17'54.75"N 13°23'5.61"E |
| 19:23.44 | KTL | that is the middle of the sahara |
| 19:23.56 | pending | that's a lot of cirlces |
| 19:25.16 | KTL | the story behind this is |
| 19:25.22 | pending | there's a pic of the machine that made them :) |
| 19:25.39 | pending | 'Ferme Burjug' |
| 19:25.42 | KTL | that they found a huge water source beneath the sand |
| 19:25.53 | KTL | and started to used it |
| 19:26.04 | KTL | pumped vast amounts of money in it |
| 19:26.15 | KTL | and know they are irrigating the sahara |
| 19:26.30 | KTL | in a dozen years the water may be gone allready :D |
| 19:28.58 | KTL | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:29.32 | KTL | that ship "survived" a world war and 2 atomic bombs |
| 19:33.38 | KTL | and one of his sisterships, the blucher, also made a very very impressive story, how quick a ship like that can find its end |
| 19:34.42 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@63.147.94.149) |
| 19:34.42 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 19:40.19 | *** join/#bzflag Bz_Win (n=Kyle@CPE0016b6de59f3-CM000f9fac8236.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 19:40.43 | Bz_Win | hellos |
| 19:40.50 | JeffM2501 | word |
| 19:41.28 | Bz_Win | eek |
| 19:45.08 | JeffM2501 | did you see a mouse? |
| 19:45.38 | Bz_Win | Yeah, two on my desk :) |
| 19:46.45 | JeffM2501 | tupone_laptop, do you have to always be in a "room" in CS? |
| 19:47.05 | tupone_laptop | in a sector you mean |
| 19:47.08 | JeffM2501 | yeah sorry |
| 19:47.26 | JeffM2501 | so it's a portal system? |
| 19:47.30 | tupone_laptop | an object can be in more then one sector |
| 19:47.35 | tupone_laptop | yep |
| 19:47.41 | JeffM2501 | but you have to have at least one sector |
| 19:47.43 | JeffM2501 | interesting |
| 19:47.51 | JeffM2501 | do they suport any other scenegraph? |
| 19:47.54 | JeffM2501 | like octree? |
| 19:48.04 | tupone_laptop | for the culling? |
| 19:48.13 | JeffM2501 | or even storage |
| 19:48.23 | tupone_laptop | they dismissed octree |
| 19:48.28 | JeffM2501 | realy |
| 19:48.31 | tupone_laptop | they use frustvis and dynavis |
| 19:48.32 | JeffM2501 | interesting |
| 19:49.55 | JeffM2501 | so just flat frustum checks against all the objects in a sector? |
| 19:49.55 | tupone_laptop | well I find for you the pages |
| 19:49.55 | JeffM2501 | thanks |
| 19:49.55 | JeffM2501 | cus we wouldn't realy be setup well for that |
| 19:49.56 | JeffM2501 | as we'd have one big room |
| 19:49.56 | JeffM2501 | I'd hope they at least do an octree, or a bsp inside the sector |
| 19:49.56 | JeffM2501 | for fast object culling |
| 19:50.13 | tupone_laptop | they claim their is better, well looking for page |
| 19:50.13 | JeffM2501 | unless they are interirior optimised, and expect few objects per sector |
| 19:50.31 | JeffM2501 | kk |
| 19:50.54 | tupone_laptop | http://www.crystalspace3d.org/docs/online/manual/cs_4.9.8.2.php#4.9.8.2 |
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| 19:51.51 | JeffM2501 | hmmm, dosn't say how they store it |
| 19:51.58 | JeffM2501 | bet dynavis is an octree |
| 19:52.00 | JeffM2501 | or a bsp |
| 19:52.39 | tupone_laptop | I read the thay had octree, and then they removed as dynavis is better suited |
| 19:52.51 | JeffM2501 | yeah but what does dynavis use internaly? :) |
| 19:52.59 | JeffM2501 | sounds like octree with occluders |
| 19:53.09 | JeffM2501 | what are you using now? |
| 19:53.09 | *** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=Baron@fl-71-49-1-173.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 19:53.10 | JeffM2501 | the default? |
| 19:53.11 | *** join/#bzflag BrT (n=Baron@fl-71-49-1-173.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 19:53.32 | tupone_laptop | the default now, for bzflag CS, I guess is frustvis |
| 19:54.00 | JeffM2501 | the docs seem very weak on this subject :/ |
| 19:55.22 | tupone_laptop | i's nice culler for outdoors, but no idea what alghoritms are inside, answer from one of the guy. I did not ask publicly |
| 19:55.42 | JeffM2501 | they say it's based on dPVS, so I'm reading up on that now |
| 19:57.20 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=Constitu@gateway.pct.civiltec.com) |
| 19:57.49 | JeffM2501 | looks like lots of the info is missing |
| 19:57.53 | JeffM2501 | but occulsion is good |
| 19:58.06 | JeffM2501 | you'll probably want to change to the dynavis when you get closer |
| 20:00.22 | JeffM2501 | tho if you don't set anything as an occluder, it'll be the same as the default |
| 20:02.21 | *** join/#bzflag [darek] (n=[darek]@2.174.unknown.vectranet.pl) |
| 20:05.09 | Manu | welcome darek :) |
| 20:05.37 | [darek] | thanks Manu :) |
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| 20:11.59 | JeffM2501 | I think the big question will come down to how we want to handle the sun |
| 20:12.32 | tupone_laptop | Have you seen the halo? |
| 20:13.15 | JeffM2501 | halo? |
| 20:13.36 | tupone_laptop | is a kind of light, maybe like a star |
| 20:13.44 | JeffM2501 | since we do the sky and sun that moves, we'd need all dynamic lights |
| 20:13.59 | JeffM2501 | looks like they can be done together |
| 20:14.21 | JeffM2501 | I was lookin at the samples, but didn't see anything that jumped out and said lighting |
| 20:14.22 | tupone_laptop | http://www.crystalspace3d.org/main/Halo_tutorial |
| 20:15.12 | JeffM2501 | ahh, that isn't int he soures it seems |
| 20:16.48 | JeffM2501 | the lighting in the isotest is similar to what we need |
| 20:16.53 | [darek] | it's very detailed tutorial |
| 20:17.23 | [darek] | better idea is just use <halo> <type>flare</type> <centermaterial>flara.1</centermaterial> etc... |
| 20:17.43 | tupone_laptop | [darek], there is something to do shadow, easily, and dynamic light, like a sun that move |
| 20:18.06 | JeffM2501 | we atempt to repliacte the time of day, with sun/moon positions |
| 20:18.15 | [darek] | yes it's easy |
| 20:18.18 | tupone_laptop | just comparing with what we do actually |
| 20:18.40 | JeffM2501 | looks like the dynamic lights are what we'd use |
| 20:18.46 | JeffM2501 | we'd just have a lot of them |
| 20:18.47 | JeffM2501 | one per shot |
| 20:19.08 | [darek] | but if you want shadows - don't use transparency and billboards |
| 20:19.12 | JeffM2501 | unless we fake out the shot glow |
| 20:19.34 | JeffM2501 | right now our objects cast shadows only on the ground |
| 20:19.37 | JeffM2501 | from the sun |
| 20:19.52 | JeffM2501 | or the moon as it were |
| 20:20.00 | tupone_laptop | [darek], just a question. Are you a student under 18 ? |
| 20:20.17 | [darek] | nope i'm 30 |
| 20:20.41 | tupone_laptop | :( Just we apply to GSOC like you do :) |
| 20:20.59 | JeffM2501 | I should just try to replicate my test in CS, and see how hard it is |
| 20:21.20 | [darek] | I can make plastic surgery ;) |
| 20:21.29 | tupone_laptop | :) |
| 20:22.34 | [darek] | with dynamic sunlight you should watch 'walktest terrain' |
| 20:22.58 | tupone_laptop | yeah, I saw :) |
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| 20:23.01 | JeffM2501 | how is the performance of them? |
| 20:23.12 | JeffM2501 | optimaly we'd have a light for each shot we fire |
| 20:23.21 | JeffM2501 | as they are glowing ping-pong balls |
| 20:23.41 | [darek] | performance is good |
| 20:23.48 | bz55 | Hey TimRiker |
| 20:23.55 | [darek] | but this effects needs say at least geforce3 |
| 20:24.06 | JeffM2501 | shaders? |
| 20:24.13 | [darek] | with lower cards you can't change sunposition in realitme |
| 20:24.14 | [darek] | it's baked |
| 20:24.17 | Erroneous | heh, anonymous there has a lot of patience... |
| 20:24.23 | [darek] | yes it using shaders, but simplest ones |
| 20:24.33 | JeffM2501 | ahh, so no shadow volumes or anything |
| 20:24.35 | JeffM2501 | hmmm. |
| 20:24.47 | Erroneous | we only move the sun every 5mins or so anyway, iirc |
| 20:24.53 | [darek] | for shadows if can using stencil, they are sharp |
| 20:25.06 | JeffM2501 | we have sharp shadows now |
| 20:25.12 | JeffM2501 | and that will probalby be fine |
| 20:25.29 | JeffM2501 | for softs requiring shaders is reasonable |
| 20:25.49 | [darek] | someones made smooth shadows but no idea when he will commit it |
| 20:26.05 | JeffM2501 | heh, that sounds familair :) |
| 20:26.11 | [darek] | ;) |
| 20:29.15 | [darek] | but with this setup and with some candy-eye effects it will require at least gf5200 + celeron 1.8 |
| 20:29.30 | JeffM2501 | our eye candy is low |
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| 20:31.06 | tupone_laptop | [darek], I found an interesting texture for the sky in CS, but seems nobody knows about it. |
| 20:31.45 | tupone_laptop | crystalspace.texture.loader.sky |
| 20:32.34 | [darek] | maybe, personally I thin kthere is no better art than handmade |
| 20:32.55 | tupone_laptop | but that is a procedural texture |
| 20:33.07 | tupone_laptop | you see the clouds moving |
| 20:33.08 | [darek] | yes people knows about this procedural texture |
| 20:33.18 | [darek] | it's ugly ;) |
| 20:33.23 | tupone_laptop | slow |
| 20:33.58 | [darek] | well don't laugh but... |
| 20:34.07 | [darek] | someones made already nice volume clouds |
| 20:34.17 | [darek] | but no idea when he will commit it |
| 20:34.20 | tupone_laptop | lol |
| 20:34.31 | Manu | heh |
| 20:34.52 | [darek] | ask DragonRift about this clouds, he asked me to finish it but I had no time |
| 20:35.19 | JeffM2501 | tupone_laptop, I assume you don't have windows where you are? |
| 20:35.21 | tupone_laptop | well, I have to add a lot of thing to bzflag |
| 20:35.37 | tupone_laptop | It is night here |
| 20:35.56 | tupone_laptop | so I see only star |
| 20:36.13 | tupone_laptop | maybe you are talking about other kind of windows? |
| 20:36.17 | JeffM2501 | I am |
| 20:36.27 | uso | ts: the server spam filter is useless, it only detects spam if each line is identical, so no real protection |
| 20:36.54 | tupone_laptop | dunno, I have some windows, but don't know what kind of windows are you talking about :) |
| 20:36.56 | JeffM2501 | uso, it would be trivial to write a plugin that timed the chat updates. |
| 20:36.57 | uso | it should count the lines per time unit, regardless what the lines are (maybe except command lines starting with /) |
| 20:37.02 | JeffM2501 | tupone_laptop, the OS |
| 20:37.17 | tupone_laptop | is there an OS called windows out there? |
| 20:37.27 | JeffM2501 | nevermind |
| 20:37.35 | tupone_laptop | well actually the answer is no |
| 20:37.41 | uso | JeffM2501: i'm not a friend of putting every basic functionality of a server into a plugin ;) |
| 20:37.41 | tupone_laptop | I removed it |
| 20:37.42 | JeffM2501 | I should have never asked |
| 20:37.45 | tupone_laptop | lol |
| 20:37.56 | tupone_laptop | just kidding |
| 20:37.58 | JeffM2501 | uso, probably should be in there |
| 20:38.25 | JeffM2501 | the server can do ANYTHING a plugin can ;) |
| 20:38.37 | JeffM2501 | I was never a fan of lan's spam thingy |
| 20:39.00 | JeffM2501 | it should be similar to flood protection on IRC |
| 20:39.18 | Manu | I agree JeffM2501 |
| 20:39.51 | JeffM2501 | personaly I'd like bzfs to just be a collection of installed API callbacks and event handlers :) |
| 20:39.57 | Constitution | bzflag becomes more like IRC with each passing day ;-) |
| 20:40.01 | uso | ya, irc flood protection works well |
| 20:40.15 | JeffM2501 | is server spaming that huge of an issue? |
| 20:40.23 | uso | not really |
| 20:40.28 | JeffM2501 | I didn't think so |
| 20:41.56 | JeffM2501 | tupone_laptop, I was going to send you the test app that I was trying to replicate in CS. |
| 20:42.02 | JeffM2501 | that is why I asked. |
| 20:42.08 | uso | i only wanted to say it's not the best thing to try to make server owners activate a feature which does not work as expected :) |
| 20:42.11 | tupone_laptop | I understood |
| 20:42.18 | JeffM2501 | uso, indeed |
| 20:42.36 | JeffM2501 | uso, or to worry about problems that may never happen ;) |
| 20:42.43 | tupone_laptop | That could be the only meaning of that question |
| 20:42.48 | uso | that too :) |
| 20:43.15 | JeffM2501 | you used to have a windows install somewhere didn't you? |
| 20:44.23 | tupone_laptop | I had win98, then removed. I used to have cross-factory |
| 20:44.40 | tupone_laptop | no more now |
| 20:44.45 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 20:50.50 | tupone_laptop | JeffM2501, I have body, barrel, ltread, rtread, turret and cube. what is cube? |
| 20:51.40 | tupone_laptop | maybe is just a cube all around the tank :/ |
| 21:08.53 | [darek] | hmm do you using CRYSTAL env var for compiling ? |
| 21:09.05 | tupone_laptop | nope |
| 21:09.18 | tupone_laptop | or .. lemme see |
| 21:09.36 | [darek] | probaly this can be also solution for that problem |
| 21:09.53 | tupone_laptop | I have CRYSTAL_CONFIG and CRYSTAL_PLUGIN |
| 21:10.14 | [darek] | for your gcc configuration use $CRYSTAL/cs-config --include and $CRYSTAL/cs-config --libs |
| 21:10.40 | [darek] | where these variables points ? |
| 21:10.43 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=TD-Linux@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 21:11.11 | tupone_laptop | I get you mean --cflags |
| 21:11.17 | [darek] | yes sorry |
| 21:11.24 | [darek] | --cflags |
| 21:11.44 | [darek] | well cs-config --help says proper usage |
| 21:12.04 | tupone_laptop | ts is still playing I guess or eating, or sleeping or doing otherthings. Not replying |
| 21:12.18 | [darek] | ok |
| 21:12.30 | [darek] | also tell him that better is to keep CS not installed |
| 21:12.37 | [darek] | not system wide |
| 21:12.49 | [darek] | better is keep it compiled in source directory |
| 21:12.53 | tupone_laptop | he compiled from source |
| 21:12.58 | [darek] | and use $CRYSTAL env var |
| 21:13.01 | tupone_laptop | I have installed :) |
| 21:13.16 | [darek] | well you can istall it |
| 21:13.24 | TheRedBaron | tupone_laptop: he's playing, got 5 min left |
| 21:13.32 | tupone_laptop | ahh ok |
| 21:13.35 | [darek] | but not installign can also help with compiling problems |
| 21:13.46 | tupone_laptop | TheRedBaron, tournament? |
| 21:13.53 | TheRedBaron | tupone_laptop: yes |
| 21:14.00 | TheRedBaron | tournament/match |
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| 21:35.48 | *** join/#bzflag chickin (n=chickin@66-191-163-188.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) |
| 21:36.48 | chickin | hi all |
| 21:38.29 | *** join/#bzflag Theme97 (n=Theme97@about/essy/phpwriter/Theme97) |
| 21:38.45 | TheRedBaron | ~sandwich chickin |
| 21:39.00 | chickin | hi theme |
| 21:39.06 | chickin | hey red |
| 21:39.30 | chickin | hi tim |
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| 22:02.54 | [darek] | time to sleep, nite |
| 22:02.59 | Constitution | bye |
| 22:03.01 | tupone_laptop | ciao |
| 22:11.28 | JeffM2501 | tupone_laptop, probably some default cube I didn't know had been made in blender :) |
| 22:12.37 | TD-Linux | hehe the default cube :P |
| 22:12.58 | JeffM2501 | like I know how to use blender :) |
| 22:13.15 | tupone_laptop | ahh |
| 22:13.45 | Constitution | yeah that would be nice |
| 22:13.55 | JeffM2501 | how old is your laptop? |
| 22:14.19 | tupone_laptop | TD-Linux, if you drop it you get a -9.8 vertical acceleration, that is in 3D |
| 22:16.13 | TD-Linux | tupone_laptop, hmm, I'll try |
| 22:16.31 | tupone_laptop | :) |
| 22:16.36 | TD-Linux | I suppose the higher I drop it from, the better the acceleration and thus frame rate? |
| 22:16.46 | JeffM2501 | the acceleration is constant |
| 22:17.03 | TD-Linux | oh... yeah :) |
| 22:17.06 | tupone_laptop | until it reach the ground. Then you get the max |
| 22:17.49 | TD-Linux | this is an IBM T23 laptop... the savage3D has acceleration, but it's so miserably buggy and limited it's not worth it |
| 22:18.00 | JeffM2501 | ewww savage |
| 22:18.16 | TD-Linux | yes... how I long for integrated intel... ;) |
| 22:18.35 | JeffM2501 | lapies I'm looking at have nvidia 6150's |
| 22:19.00 | TD-Linux | that sounds good |
| 22:19.06 | JeffM2501 | not as good as I'd like |
| 22:19.13 | JeffM2501 | I'd prefer the 7300 |
| 22:19.16 | TD-Linux | yeah, but I'm sure they are a pretty good deal |
| 22:19.30 | TD-Linux | used laptops or new? |
| 22:19.32 | JeffM2501 | new |
| 22:19.38 | TD-Linux | oh |
| 22:19.50 | JeffM2501 | naw, 6150's are standard on all the AMD based hp laptops |
| 22:20.13 | JeffM2501 | base for a sempy is like 500$ |
| 22:20.27 | TD-Linux | what is wrong with intel? |
| 22:20.41 | JeffM2501 | the base on the intel is always the 950 :) |
| 22:20.49 | JeffM2501 | and for the lower end the amd's are cheaper |
| 22:21.05 | JeffM2501 | I don't need a desktop replacement |
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| 22:21.10 | JeffM2501 | if I was, I'd go core 2 |
| 22:21.16 | TD-Linux | $630 |
| 22:21.35 | JeffM2501 | for what? |
| 22:22.02 | TD-Linux | base sempron |
| 22:22.06 | TD-Linux | oh, compaq is better |
| 22:22.11 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 22:22.13 | JeffM2501 | same lapy |
| 22:22.31 | JeffM2501 | my config for what I want is like 690 |
| 22:23.06 | JeffM2501 | with the intels at that price range, all I can get is 950 onboard, and I trust nvidia better |
| 22:23.07 | TD-Linux | used laptops are too expensive I've noticed... it's almost cheaper for a new one |
| 22:24.00 | JeffM2501 | if I wanted to get closer to a grand,I'd get a core 2 with a 7300 |
| 22:24.17 | JeffM2501 | or 7400, whatever the upgrade is |
| 22:26.03 | JeffM2501 | maybe if I can sell my mini |
| 22:26.03 | Constitution | noooooo don't sell your mini |
| 22:26.03 | JeffM2501 | why not? |
| 22:26.04 | Constitution | or do you have another mac? |
| 22:26.06 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 22:26.24 | Constitution | and you could live without a mac? oh well, guess I just can't relate ;-) |
| 22:26.34 | JeffM2501 | umm yeah |
| 22:26.41 | JeffM2501 | why would I need one? |
| 22:27.03 | Constitution | for testing bzflag, perhaps? |
| 22:27.16 | JeffM2501 | I can test bzflag on my main machine and the server |
| 22:28.06 | Constitution | what about mac-specific bugs that come up? |
| 22:28.15 | JeffM2501 | I'm the only developer? |
| 22:28.28 | Constitution | hmm, true |
| 22:28.41 | JeffM2501 | I got the mac for that reason, but I don't find myself doing anything mac specific |
| 22:28.46 | JeffM2501 | I just use it for IM and music |
| 22:28.55 | JeffM2501 | rather have a laptop in it's place |
| 22:28.58 | JeffM2501 | of my own |
| 22:29.07 | JeffM2501 | a laptop can do the same stuff, and is portable |
| 22:33.01 | JeffM2501 | so that means selling the mini |
| 22:33.02 | JeffM2501 | if I can |
| 22:33.10 | JeffM2501 | dunno who would want a 2 year old mini |
| 22:33.40 | Constitution | ~$350 on eBay |
| 22:33.52 | JeffM2501 | not horible |
| 22:39.01 | JeffM2501 | even upgraded it to a gig of ram so it woudn't suck |
| 22:49.36 | Erroneous | you mean, suck less? :P |
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| 23:08.02 | JeffM2501 | yes suck less |
| 23:14.04 | a_meteorite | ? |
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