| 00:13.24 | CBG | ~donny_baker++ |
| 00:20.38 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 00:20.38 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 00:20.56 | JeffM2501 | happy new year Tupone |
| 00:21.09 | Tupone | hny |
| 00:28.06 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=Owner@ip68-105-193-169.pv.oc.cox.net) |
| 00:29.06 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=troublem@cpe-24-28-107-184.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 00:29.41 | spldart | Don't you hate it when someone 'wh0 sp's lik t#is' asks if he can mod on your server? |
| 00:30.11 | spldart | Does it mean I'm a pack rat if I have .tar.gz's of the last 5+ months of head code? |
| 00:30.29 | spldart | How many questions in a row till I make the TimRiker IRC stats page? |
| 00:30.38 | spldart | :) |
| 00:31.53 | blast007 | spldart: hehe, probably means your a pac rat :) |
| 00:32.15 | spldart | I'm hopeless |
| 00:35.26 | JeffM2501 | he has a stats page? |
| 00:35.38 | blast007 | ibot stats |
| 00:35.39 | ibot | Since Fri Dec 22 20:00:39 2006, there have been 110 modifications, 998 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 680 commands. I have been awake for 11d 4h 34m 59s this session, and currently reference 112300 factoids. I'm using about 19400 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 35118.58/2044.41 child 0.14/0.06 |
| 00:35.54 | JeffM2501 | no morons |
| 00:35.55 | spldart | oh... yeah.. ibot's |
| 00:36.03 | JeffM2501 | I find that hard to belive |
| 00:36.11 | spldart | lmao |
| 00:36.13 | blast007 | yeah, I didn't want to call the bot... :/ |
| 00:36.27 | spldart | Morons and Asshats and Spammers oh my |
| 00:36.35 | spldart | No MAS |
| 00:36.54 | JeffM2501 | looks like it had a reset recently tho |
| 00:38.53 | L4m3r | ~moron |
| 00:38.55 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, moron is someone that types long lines starting with "ibot" |
| 00:39.18 | L4m3r | heh |
| 00:39.19 | CBG | ~L4m3r |
| 00:39.21 | ibot | hmm... l4m3r is Gnurdux's BEST FRIEND |
| 00:39.31 | L4m3r | AHHHHH |
| 00:39.31 | CBG | heh |
| 00:39.33 | spldart | I guess my joke was to lame :( |
| 00:40.00 | CBG | What joke? :P |
| 00:40.10 | L4m3r | 19MB of memory? |
| 00:40.17 | JeffM2501 | ibot dude? how do you do it? I mean you are so awesome it kinda hurts. Like more awesome then hotdogs. If you were a real person I'd, hope you'd be my friend. And we could go out to the park, and play frisbee. If you had a dog, it could come too. do you have a dog? |
| 00:40.19 | ibot | that's too long, JeffM2501 |
| 00:40.32 | JeffM2501 | I know, Ibot. I know |
| 00:40.34 | L4m3r | ~stats |
| 00:40.35 | ibot | Since Fri Dec 22 20:00:39 2006, there have been 110 modifications, 1000 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 680 commands. I have been awake for 11d 4h 39m 55s this session, and currently reference 112300 factoids. I'm using about 19400 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 35141.44/2048.97 child 0.14/0.06 |
| 00:40.38 | JeffM2501 | damn |
| 00:40.41 | L4m3r | hm |
| 00:40.42 | blast007 | awwww |
| 00:41.24 | spldart | Ok... No Mas Bromas |
| 00:41.40 | CBG | :( |
| 00:44.31 | AAA_awright | ~ultimateanswer |
| 00:44.49 | CBG | 42. |
| 00:45.01 | AAA_awright | ~ultimateanswer is 42 |
| 00:45.03 | ibot | okay, AAA_awright |
| 00:45.06 | AAA_awright | ~ultimateanswer |
| 00:45.08 | ibot | methinks ultimateanswer is 42 |
| 00:45.10 | blast007 | oh, and in regards to AAA_awright's issue with sending commands without showing on the list |
| 00:45.17 | blast007 | might be nice for something like that |
| 00:45.42 | AAA_awright | I have a sample list of changes to the permission system for the next protocol break, see http://labs.redjacket.ws/bzflagpermission.txt |
| 00:45.44 | blast007 | either a different mode where they show up under /playerlist and get advertised as "joining" for admins |
| 00:45.50 | AAA_awright | Is there anything to add? |
| 00:45.58 | blast007 | or some kind of rcon style administration mode |
| 00:46.19 | CBG | One tiny bug I noticed... If you're an admin and someone joins, you see: Player X has Joined. |
| 00:46.40 | CBG | AND you see: Player X has joined from 100.10.0.1 |
| 00:47.04 | CBG | Only if you have whatever perm allows you to see /playerlist (PLAYERLIST ?). |
| 00:47.21 | AAA_awright | I could probably make a patch for that |
| 00:47.56 | CBG | Wouldn't be too difficult, I imagine. |
| 00:47.58 | blast007 | we could probably get away from the extra packet and just specify it with the join message |
| 00:48.07 | AAA_awright | I need te exact text of the repeated message |
| 00:48.18 | AAA_awright | ahh, I can get it myself :p |
| 00:48.52 | blast007 | AAA_awright: there is an IPINFO (I think it's called that) packet that gets sent with player IP addresses for admins |
| 00:49.11 | AAA_awright | thanks |
| 00:49.17 | spldart | I can't find any processes that come close to 19meg on my server :eek: |
| 00:49.18 | blast007 | we could probably move the IP address to the join message, and just set it to 0.0.0.0 for non-admins |
| 00:51.57 | AAA_awright | I can't find where it broadcasts the joined message--either one |
| 00:52.11 | CBG | how about...: only send the NORMAL join message if player does NOT have PLAYERLIST perm. |
| 00:52.34 | AAA_awright | if(){}else{} |
| 00:52.42 | AAA_awright | not {} if(){} |
| 00:52.45 | AAA_awright | er... yah |
| 00:52.55 | AAA_awright | If I can find where it broadcasts the message |
| 00:52.59 | AAA_awright | (ahem) |
| 00:53.40 | blast007 | not bzfs.cxx? |
| 00:55.00 | AAA_awright | the word "joined" isn't in it (that is, not including comments) |
| 00:55.31 | CBG | I can only find " bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: logDebugMessage(1,"Player %s [%d] has joined from %s at %s with token \"%s\"\n", " |
| 00:55.40 | AAA_awright | same here |
| 00:55.47 | AAA_awright | that is the log, though |
| 00:55.54 | CBG | yeah. maybe "connected", not "joined"... |
| 00:56.03 | AAA_awright | * 'AAA2' joined the game as Red Team from 68.14.251.102 |
| 00:56.14 | AAA_awright | that is the text used, or the sample I collected |
| 00:56.41 | CBG | No luck with "connected". |
| 00:56.55 | AAA_awright | looking for "joined the game as" |
| 00:56.57 | CBG | ok |
| 00:57.26 | CBG | I find matches in bzflag/src/bzadmin/BZAdminClient.cxx ... |
| 00:57.40 | AAA_awright | That is why! |
| 00:57.57 | AAA_awright | the text isn't produced by the server, but by the client |
| 00:58.08 | CBG | I'm grepping bzflag/src/ |
| 00:58.24 | CBG | grep -r "the game as" bzflag/src/ |
| 00:58.44 | CBG | With 2.0.9 from a few hours ago. |
| 00:58.46 | AAA_awright | CBG: that message isn't printed by MsgMessage |
| 00:59.05 | CBG | Hmm? |
| 00:59.11 | AAA_awright | it is printed by the client when it recieves a MsgAdminInfo packet (title may be diffrent) |
| 00:59.15 | AAA_awright | not a message |
| 00:59.27 | CBG | Which means? |
| 00:59.40 | AAA_awright | We need to modify the clients |
| 01:00.04 | CBG | And? |
| 01:00.17 | AAA_awright | it may be harder than it looks... |
| 01:00.39 | AAA_awright | The clients print two messages, first the MsgAddPlayer, THEN MsgAdminInfo |
| 01:00.41 | CBG | Yes. it may be. |
| 01:01.14 | AAA_awright | we could merge MsgAdminInfo into MsgAddPlayer... but then we might break stuff :o |
| 01:02.17 | CBG | *you could. ;) |
| 01:02.18 | spldart | Excuse me Egon... you said crossing the streams is bad |
| 01:02.29 | CBG | I can grep... doesn't mean I can code... much. |
| 01:03.09 | CBG | I struggle with C/C++ syntax, still. |
| 01:06.23 | *** join/#bzflag Theme97_ (n=Theme97@about/essy/phpwriter/Theme97) |
| 01:40.16 | blast007 | AAA_awright: of course it'll break stuff |
| 01:40.23 | blast007 | that's the point, breaking the protocol ;) |
| 01:41.24 | AAA_awright | by merging MsgAdminInfo with MsgPlayerAdd, some of the packet won't always be used, and definately won't be IP6 compatible |
| 01:41.43 | blast007 | is any part of bzflag IPv6 compatible? |
| 01:41.51 | AAA_awright | we are thinking ahead |
| 01:42.02 | AAA_awright | think now, save time later |
| 01:42.22 | blast007 | make it a 128 bit field then, with another value to specify if we're doing v4 or v6 |
| 01:42.52 | blast007 | the IP is gonna be converted to bits anyway |
| 01:49.02 | *** join/#bzflag master_tux (n=will@ool-45770c9b.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 01:54.24 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (n=A-Delusi@pool-151-201-122-253.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 02:00.51 | *** join/#bzflag shorty114 (n=shorty11@unaffiliated/shorty114) |
| 02:11.06 | AAA_awright | as part of the restructuring of groups... anything to add or take out? http://labs.redjacket.ws/bzflagpermission.txt |
| 02:14.10 | *** join/#bzflag The (n=d8319dd5@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 02:17.45 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=JBdiGriz@adsl-63-199-246-191.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net) |
| 02:17.45 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 02:39.30 | *** join/#bzflag Flash (n=jwmelto@c-24-9-8-185.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 02:50.42 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=l4m3r@pool-71-118-51-14.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 03:23.39 | spldart | mmmMMMmmm chili con carne on chow mein noodles with beer |
| 03:23.59 | inchworm | english please there spldart |
| 03:24.04 | inchworm | con carne? |
| 03:24.09 | inchworm | chow mein? |
| 03:24.16 | spldart | chili with meat |
| 03:24.26 | inchworm | ahh chili with beer ;) |
| 03:24.33 | spldart | On chow mein noodles |
| 03:24.44 | inchworm | hehe |
| 03:24.48 | inchworm | not too bad |
| 03:25.02 | spldart | I'm kinda liking it |
| 03:25.48 | spldart | Not to mention a fine aged scotch |
| 03:26.13 | inchworm | hehe, i have no clue, but enjoy anyway :) |
| 03:42.18 | *** join/#bzflag kyelewis` (n=kyelewis@ppp194-186.static.internode.on.net) |
| 03:42.50 | spldart | The only green bottle that does NOT smell and taste like skunk |
| 03:43.27 | spldart | Besides... it harkens back to my days of cruising the strip in the 80's drag racing |
| 04:07.52 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=Admin@ppp-69-237-42-62.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 04:08.34 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 04:20.33 | AAA_awright | This is the amount of stuff I have come up with so far for the next protocol break, any other things to add? Should we add it to the official todo? http://labs.redjacket.ws/bzflagpermission.txt |
| 04:22.09 | brlcad | there isn't really an "official todo" .. just various todo collections in a few places |
| 04:22.13 | AAA_awright | spldart, didn't you have somthing to say on this? |
| 04:22.19 | brlcad | TODO file, task tracker, jeff's ideas file, etc |
| 04:22.24 | AAA_awright | :) |
| 04:22.33 | AAA_awright | Should it be considered an official idea, then |
| 04:22.51 | brlcad | yea verily.. "it is an idea" |
| 04:23.31 | AAA_awright | to be added and supported by the major developers :p |
| 04:23.31 | Flash | ~dict idea |
| 04:23.33 | brlcad | it's an interesting set of changes, mostly reasonable |
| 04:23.42 | Flash | blean |
| 04:23.50 | AAA_awright | ~idea |
| 04:23.54 | ibot | it has been said that idea is that each program simply registers itself with the menu, (simple directory hierarchy I think), and each WM package is responsible for reading the menu hierarchy to create its internal menu. |
| 04:23.54 | Flash | ~dict 1 idea |
| 04:24.04 | AAA_awright | ~wikipedia idea |
| 04:24.48 | AAA_awright | someone tell Riker ibot needs to strip wiki tags |
| 04:24.50 | brlcad | there's a couple inconsistencies in the naming and convention that aren't too appealing, but the base idea seems to be to distinguish when a player has connected and/or joined better |
| 04:25.40 | AAA_awright | My idea, spacificly, would distinguish what permissions a connected but unjoined user has |
| 04:25.45 | brlcad | and that is something that has been a "good idea" for a long time, just somewhat low on the totem pole |
| 04:26.39 | AAA_awright | that is, can they request statistics, etc. |
| 04:26.40 | brlcad | traditionally, the design has been to allow anyone connected to do this |
| 04:26.44 | brlcad | (intentionally) |
| 04:26.50 | AAA_awright | And it would move the code that makes sure commands are sent in the correct order to the permissions system |
| 04:26.53 | brlcad | well, mostly intentionally |
| 04:27.29 | *** join/#bzflag short_circuit (n=short_ci@cpe-24-28-107-184.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 04:27.38 | brlcad | heh, what you wrote doesn't "move code" .. |
| 04:27.57 | brlcad | the more intrinsic problem is detangling playing.cxx |
| 04:28.09 | spldart | sry... machine locke as I was exiting bzclient playing silvercat.... whazzup AAA? |
| 04:28.19 | *** join/#bzflag TheAdventMaster (n=TheAdven@ip68-99-55-114.cl.ri.cox.net) |
| 04:28.43 | TheAdventMaster | Hiya. |
| 04:28.50 | TheAdventMaster | Bye-ya |
| 04:28.56 | brlcad | AAA_awright: so you're going to get started coding? :) |
| 04:29.06 | *** part/#bzflag TheAdventMaster (n=TheAdven@ip68-99-55-114.cl.ri.cox.net) |
| 04:29.17 | AAA_awright | heh... a little bit. |
| 04:29.36 | spldart | Ideas... I had two.. Blast or brl didn't like one :-p |
| 04:29.53 | spldart | Wish I could code :( |
| 04:30.06 | brlcad | probably blast, at least I don't recall any from you |
| 04:30.34 | spldart | Flag ideas |
| 04:30.52 | spldart | Unless the ideas being discussed are proto or other |
| 04:30.54 | spldart | then sorry |
| 04:31.29 | brlcad | AAA_awright: it's not really that complicated -- most of the impact of negotiating the connection as you suggest currently occurs in src/bzflag/playing.cxx and src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx along with a few other files, but that's where it basically happens |
| 04:31.43 | brlcad | ah, flags.. fun |
| 04:31.52 | spldart | heh |
| 04:32.07 | brlcad | there's never a shortage of flag ideas :) |
| 04:32.16 | spldart | hehe |
| 04:32.26 | AAA_awright | We need source support for multiple flags, too. NOT so you can carry multiple flags, but so plugins can give tanks multiple abilities. SEE: Theme97's ability plugin server |
| 04:32.51 | spldart | I came up with a couple of cool ones.. but not important... soudns likeyour talking workings code not silly add-ons |
| 04:33.14 | spldart | besides.... was told one flag idea maybe incorporated by plugin so that is that :) |
| 04:33.30 | brlcad | the flag management/design really needs to be refactored/redesigned, so they're more encapsulated -- utilize callbacks similar to the plugins api |
| 04:33.53 | AAA_awright | Theme97 has a hack going, where you can have one flag, plus a custom bullet |
| 04:34.06 | AAA_awright | for example, OO with SB bullets |
| 04:34.22 | AAA_awright | the bad part is you don't see the diffrent bullet on your client |
| 04:34.52 | brlcad | flags really should be implemented "proper" imho, not via plugins |
| 04:34.55 | AAA_awright | so while your bullet is ricoing, everyone else sees your bullet going through buildings |
| 04:35.18 | AAA_awright | I think flags have been implemented properly |
| 04:35.18 | brlcad | plugins can do good to modify their behavior |
| 04:36.02 | AAA_awright | do you mean have the server tell the client what abilities each tank has, independend of the name of the flag? |
| 04:36.06 | brlcad | ah, that's just compatibility -- you can't implement most good flag ideas without breaking net protocol or client behavior |
| 04:42.55 | AAA_awright | so, uh, who wants to help me get started on a patch? |
| 04:42.59 | AAA_awright | http://labs.redjacket.ws/bzflagpermission.txt |
| 04:43.33 | Flash | that is likely too much for a patch |
| 04:44.04 | AAA_awright | who has CVS access and wants to help? |
| 04:44.08 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:44.36 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r_ (n=l4m3r@pool-71-118-51-14.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 04:45.35 | brlcad | AAA_awright: are there any other existing examples of "meta-permissions", I don't recall |
| 04:46.01 | AAA_awright | mets permissions, as in permissions before you are supposed to get permissions? |
| 04:46.09 | AAA_awright | *meta |
| 04:46.25 | brlcad | no, permissions that are really just groupings of other permissions |
| 04:46.30 | brlcad | hm.. maybe the polling perms |
| 04:46.34 | AAA_awright | yah |
| 04:47.27 | AAA_awright | POLL gives you POLLBAN and the rest... |
| 04:47.37 | AAA_awright | also, BAN gives you the "@" symbol |
| 04:47.43 | brlcad | yeah, I vaguely recall doing that |
| 04:48.17 | brlcad | not a great idea in itself, but it gets the job done given the way groups are specified |
| 04:51.42 | spldart | you were right brl.. my bad memory.. it was blast that didn't like one of the flag ideas |
| 04:52.01 | blast007 | but I don't like any flag ideas |
| 04:52.04 | blast007 | ;) |
| 04:52.06 | brlcad | :) |
| 04:52.33 | brlcad | how about a blast007 flag .. if the player's name is blast007, they basically get god-mode |
| 04:52.39 | *** join/#bzflag PuMpErNiCkLe (n=pumperni@about/essy/bacon/PuMpErNiCkLe) |
| 04:52.45 | blast007 | okay, that would be cool |
| 04:52.45 | spldart | lOL |
| 04:53.44 | spldart | twas 2 days after christmas ..... |
| 04:53.59 | spldart | An XR and CS flag idea |
| 04:54.57 | DTRemenak | AAA_awright: I have a rather strong preference for admin status actually meaning something |
| 05:02.54 | brlcad | DTRemenak: blasphemy! |
| 05:03.02 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 05:03.06 | brlcad | coherency and meaning are not allowed |
| 05:03.42 | short_circuit | anarchy! |
| 05:03.55 | DTRemenak | HIDEADMIN may be inconsistent, but at least it doesn't allow the "marked as admin but powerless" situation |
| 05:04.38 | DTRemenak | and requiring both ADMIN and BAN would be counterintuitive w.r.t. ADMIN |
| 05:04.53 | brlcad | might have meant SHOWADMIN instead? |
| 05:05.34 | DTRemenak | no, I said what I meant....HIDEADMIN does not have a problem that ADMIN (or SHOWADMIN) would |
| 05:05.39 | brlcad | not sure I'd see the point for that either |
| 05:05.49 | brlcad | no, I mean maybe that's what he meant, not you :) |
| 05:06.05 | DTRemenak | what he meant when? |
| 05:06.16 | brlcad | who's on first? |
| 05:06.21 | DTRemenak | yes! |
| 05:06.58 | brlcad | wow, i haven't seen one of their movies in years |
| 05:09.49 | DTRemenak | I've got a dvd full somewhere around here |
| 05:11.26 | brlcad | mm fun |
| 05:11.53 | brlcad | i can't believe Spike played voyager for an entire week almost non-stop, and they didn't get to the finale |
| 05:12.38 | *** join/#bzflag a_temp_dist (n=a_temp_d@63-228-50-59.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 05:18.09 | DTRemenak | only 8 hours a day |
| 05:18.11 | DTRemenak | ~25*7 |
| 05:18.14 | ibot | 175 |
| 05:18.32 | DTRemenak | ~175/8 |
| 05:18.34 | ibot | 21.875 |
| 05:18.49 | DTRemenak | would have taken them three weeks to get through the whole series ;) |
| 05:19.29 | DTRemenak | if they literally played it nonstop (save for ads), they could get through it in just over a week |
| 05:21.13 | brlcad | bah, marathon shmarathon .. should have played it non-stop |
| 05:22.46 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 05:24.28 | brlcad | they were "selective" .. but mostly all the good ones, there was even one (just one) that I hadn't even seen |
| 05:24.42 | brlcad | heh |
| 05:24.55 | short_circuit | 7 seasons with approx 26 episodes per |
| 05:25.02 | short_circuit | Watched them all last month |
| 05:25.32 | *** join/#bzflag Pommes_ (n=Pommes@pD9546F43.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 05:25.33 | short_circuit | and all 5 seasons of voyager |
| 05:25.39 | short_circuit | all half of a season of Excalibur |
| 05:25.45 | Flash | I've noticed a significant number of otherwise unadorned "FIXME" comments sprinkled through the code |
| 05:25.49 | short_circuit | all 4 seasons of Enterprise |
| 05:26.12 | short_circuit | oop... 5 seasons of babylon 5 |
| 05:26.21 | Flash | ooooh..... |
| 05:26.52 | short_circuit | Seasons 3 4 and 5 are the best ones |
| 05:27.36 | short_circuit | If I had some REAL bandwidth I'd put them on ftp for yah... but alas... I have the suckage for bw :( |
| 05:28.14 | Flash | that's ok, I don't deal in pirated media |
| 05:28.45 | short_circuit | umm... just recordings off of tv that I saved |
| 05:28.53 | short_circuit | and cut the commecials out of |
| 05:29.00 | short_circuit | not like I'm ripping dvd's |
| 05:29.05 | short_circuit | I would never consider that ;) |
| 05:29.40 | brlcad | short_circuit: heh, that still violates copyright if you share it with others -- for your use is fair use (presuming you're in the u.s.) |
| 05:30.36 | short_circuit | Well. great... I'm constantly sharing my recordings with my brother... guess I'm a naughty person :( |
| 05:31.44 | brlcad | meh, big deal |
| 05:31.58 | brlcad | though if they're in the same household, I think that's still fair use |
| 05:32.08 | AAA_awright | DTRemenak about the "@" being linked to BAN, I aggree on that too |
| 05:32.27 | AAA_awright | don't mess with the person who can ban you :o |
| 05:33.12 | AAA_awright | But I also don't believe in a _permission_ that _takes away_ somthing... (HIDEADMIN) |
| 05:33.13 | short_circuit | Not even in same city |
| 05:33.17 | AAA_awright | just my thought, anyway |
| 05:34.03 | DTRemenak | instead you want a permission that _might_ give something? :) |
| 05:34.58 | brlcad | heh, you don't "believe" in that? philosophical bzflag admin mantras? |
| 05:35.14 | AAA_awright | I would only want an ADMIN permission if someone else did, I do believe though that BAN should == "@" |
| 05:35.57 | brlcad | i'd disagree |
| 05:36.40 | AAA_awright | on what point? |
| 05:36.42 | AAA_awright | I made 2 |
| 05:36.49 | DTRemenak | you shouldn't do that :P |
| 05:37.05 | AAA_awright | make two points? oh, I am confuzed |
| 05:37.09 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 05:37.26 | DTRemenak | exactly ;) |
| 05:37.38 | Flash | I don't like HIDEADMIN since it doesn't apply to cops |
| 05:37.51 | Flash | if there is a reason to hide admin status, it should apply to all |
| 05:37.57 | DTRemenak | huh? |
| 05:37.59 | brlcad | cops is entirely contrived by the server configuration |
| 05:38.03 | AAA_awright | We should start crossing off items on http://labs.redjacket.ws/bzflagpermission.txt fairly soon, be back tommrow |
| 05:38.05 | DTRemenak | you can give it to whoever you want |
| 05:38.22 | brlcad | ~spell contrived |
| 05:38.37 | brlcad | hrmph |
| 05:38.45 | AAA_awright | anyone who cannot ban shouldn't bear the "@" symbol... |
| 05:38.46 | DTRemenak | what, you don't like that spelling? :) |
| 05:39.03 | AAA_awright | that includes cops (though cops should be able to ban) |
| 05:39.10 | brlcad | seemed wrong to me for some reason |
| 05:39.23 | Flash | cops usually can ban (else why are they there?) |
| 05:39.34 | blast007 | Flash: to write tickets |
| 05:39.38 | brlcad | AAA_awright: what link was that? maybe you could paste it a few more times |
| 05:39.44 | AAA_awright | http://labs.redjacket.ws/bzflagpermission.txt |
| 05:39.46 | AAA_awright | :p |
| 05:39.53 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:39.54 | brlcad | oop |
| 05:40.00 | blast007 | hehe |
| 05:40.17 | AAA_awright | if that was a typo... |
| 05:40.39 | Flash | Pull over buddy, your tank made an illegal left turn back there.... |
| 05:40.46 | brlcad | twas but a joke, it amused |
| 05:40.51 | DTRemenak | but I have LT! |
| 05:40.59 | blast007 | :) |
| 05:41.11 | AAA_awright | in other news, expect bzflag.redjacket.ws back soon (my bzflag stats 2.0 site) |
| 05:41.33 | brlcad | ~ws |
| 05:41.44 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, ws is short for workstation. White Space, or the country code for Western Samoa |
| 05:43.17 | AAA_awright | it was the domain I got, sheesh... |
| 05:43.37 | brlcad | AAA_awright: more specifically to the point, if we're going to pick an irc convention, it should follow it and @ doesn't necessarily just mean ban |
| 05:43.58 | AAA_awright | no |
| 05:46.43 | brlcad | not holding you back, just go :) |
| 05:46.59 | brlcad | but "yes" .. it was an intentional convention |
| 05:47.45 | brlcad | would be nice to have the full-blown irc permission levels too |
| 05:48.25 | brlcad | instead of just "groups" |
| 05:48.33 | *** join/#bzflag bz33 (n=424552ce@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 05:48.44 | *** part/#bzflag bz33 (n=424552ce@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 05:49.11 | DTRemenak | groups are more flexible than levels |
| 05:49.18 | *** join/#bzflag Da (n=ca9a711e@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 05:49.22 | DTRemenak | levels can be simulated with groups |
| 05:49.28 | brlcad | indeed |
| 05:49.41 | DTRemenak | since we have inheritance |
| 05:49.43 | brlcad | levels are more simple, which is what I like about them |
| 05:50.16 | brlcad | you're level X, gets you perms A, B, and C |
| 05:50.44 | DTRemenak | you're in group X, you get perms A, B, and C :) |
| 05:51.00 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 05:54.15 | brlcad | i think the aversion is just the mixing of conventions, both are familiar and simple enough |
| 05:54.25 | AAA_awright | If you want to have levels... |
| 05:54.39 | AAA_awright | jsut have one group per permission/level |
| 05:54.42 | brlcad | that one going with unix-style groups instead of ircisms |
| 05:55.00 | brlcad | AAA_awright: that is sort of what I was thinking |
| 05:55.04 | AAA_awright | a "ban" group, a "poll" grooup... and so on |
| 05:55.11 | AAA_awright | not that hard |
| 05:55.15 | DTRemenak | we have inheritance, so you can simulate levels very easily |
| 05:55.15 | brlcad | not a replacement, something to complement it for simplicity |
| 05:56.10 | brlcad | Flash: what's to wonder? notes on things that "should" eventually get fixed but haven't been fixed since for whatever reasons |
| 05:56.26 | Flash | what needs to be fixed isn't necessarily clear |
| 05:56.31 | brlcad | DTRemenak: multiple inheritance? :) |
| 05:56.52 | DTRemenak | level10: *level5 +kick level20: *level10 +ban |
| 05:57.04 | AAA_awright | exactly |
| 05:57.17 | Flash | a traits-based approach is better than inheritance |
| 05:57.20 | DTRemenak | sure, you can do multiple too :) |
| 05:57.56 | DTRemenak | inheritance of traits is a trait |
| 05:58.22 | AAA_awright | ditto |
| 05:58.35 | Flash | the problem with inheritance is defining a taxonomy that is coherent |
| 05:58.46 | Flash | generally a bad idea for permissions |
| 05:59.12 | DTRemenak | not if you have them arranged in levels ;) |
| 05:59.34 | AAA_awright | Well, unless you give someone the ban privlege before the sprawn :p |
| 05:59.41 | Flash | are all of your levels necessarily additive? |
| 05:59.51 | DTRemenak | Flash: that's the idea of levels |
| 06:00.08 | AAA_awright | lvl10=lvl9+ban, etc |
| 06:00.11 | DTRemenak | and if you wanted to subtract, you can do that too |
| 06:00.24 | AAA_awright | lvl11=lvl10-kick ??? |
| 06:00.29 | DTRemenak | level30: *level20 -mute |
| 06:00.39 | Flash | you lose a level of granularity like that |
| 06:00.39 | DTRemenak | course we have talk not mute now |
| 06:00.42 | DTRemenak | but you get the point :) |
| 06:01.01 | blast007 | LVL99 = LVL98+500mana |
| 06:01.10 | AAA_awright | :) |
| 06:01.20 | DTRemenak | brlcad: I believe Pimpi accounted for that somehow |
| 06:01.24 | blast007 | I cast level 56 shutdownserver! |
| 06:01.32 | DTRemenak | multiple group definitions are illegal iirc |
| 06:01.42 | AAA_awright | level(x) = 500x^2 - 500x |
| 06:02.33 | Flash | roles are better than levels for permissions |
| 06:02.50 | Flash | role-based access control |
| 06:03.10 | AAA_awright | ditto in oppinion |
| 06:03.17 | DTRemenak | convince brlcad :P |
| 06:04.16 | Flash | it is the way security is managed (at least in Solaris) |
| 06:04.17 | brlcad | i never said get rid of them :P |
| 06:04.59 | brlcad | it's not a manner of being flexible, it's a manner of being sufficiently simple by default and sufficiently flexible for all users |
| 06:05.24 | brlcad | it's simple enough now, i'm not advocating change -- it's just using a different convention than the majority chosen |
| 06:09.23 | Pimpi | i accounted for what? |
| 06:09.47 | DTRemenak | Pimpi: recursive group inheritance |
| 06:10.12 | DTRemenak | I think it was your patch anyway :) |
| 06:10.30 | Pimpi | we have that already, no? |
| 06:10.53 | DTRemenak | yes, you took care of it in your original patch |
| 06:10.57 | DTRemenak | that is what I was saying :) |
| 06:11.08 | Pimpi | oh |
| 06:11.18 | DTRemenak | *brlcad* wonders what "level10: *level10 -mute" will do |
| 06:12.45 | Pimpi | same as "level10: -mute" provided there was a group level10 before |
| 06:13.25 | DTRemenak | ahh :) |
| 06:13.52 | brlcad | and if there wasn't? an error? |
| 06:13.54 | Pimpi | the levels idea i wrote down somwwhere ages ago was about the setgroups perm though |
| 06:14.01 | Pimpi | error, yes |
| 06:14.03 | Pimpi | i think |
| 06:16.18 | Pimpi | setgroup doesn?t fit into the other perm?s scheme, the original patch i posted to sf limited the possibility to add players to groups, so they could only add to defined groups |
| 06:20.12 | Pimpi | the levels (still on toto...) thing was something like an extension of setgroup, in a way that you can only add players to groups with lower priority than your own |
| 06:20.36 | Pimpi | it?s a little obsolete with global groups now |
| 06:21.44 | Pimpi | however i still use my original sf patch to let cops name trusties with somewhat limited perms |
| 06:46.33 | *** join/#bzflag Da (n=ca9a711e@bz.bzflag.bz) |
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| 15:53.02 | ts | blast007: ping |
| 15:53.07 | blast007 | ts: pong |
| 15:53.28 | ts | blast007: How are config files handles by the new "BZExcess" website? |
| 15:54.11 | blast007 | still need to make it work with archives |
| 15:54.44 | blast007 | I'll be updating the upload/download code to support stuff other than text files |
| 15:54.59 | ts | Will the old maps from forums be imported? |
| 15:55.10 | blast007 | I won't necessarily import them |
| 15:55.31 | ts | So..should I submit one map I have posted to the forums, too? |
| 15:55.44 | blast007 | sure |
| 15:56.11 | blast007 | I'll be building in support to edit things that people uploaded too |
| 15:56.55 | ts | Hmm, I see no previews |
| 15:58.41 | ts | btw: There is someone posting crap: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=22940 |
| 15:59.30 | blast007 | oh yes, him |
| 16:16.51 | ts | blast007: I have uploaded my map, I trapped in a bug in description it seems |
| 16:17.12 | blast007 | ah, ok |
| 16:17.18 | ts | the string "huts" was transformed into \"huts\" |
| 16:18.01 | ts | I'm always running into bugs :) |
| 16:18.20 | blast007 | oh there's tons of bugs right now ;) |
| 16:18.22 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501) |
| 16:18.22 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 16:18.49 | blast007 | still an "alpha" |
| 16:18.58 | blast007 | lots of stuff I have to add or fix yet |
| 16:19.05 | ts | blast007: hehe, I hope you're doing a code injection check in the log-in field |
| 16:19.25 | blast007 | code injection? |
| 16:19.30 | ts | SQL |
| 16:19.41 | blast007 | the login doesn't deal with any SQL on my end |
| 16:19.44 | ts | oh |
| 16:19.53 | blast007 | it uses the weblogin.php script hosting on the bzflag list server |
| 16:20.05 | ts | Well, then I mean the rest of the entry fields ;) |
| 16:20.07 | blast007 | then it's all just stored in a session |
| 16:20.12 | blast007 | yeah, I escape everything |
| 16:20.25 | blast007 | even things I've checked with is_numeric :) |
| 16:21.02 | ts | Are you using htmlentities as well? |
| 16:22.42 | blast007 | probably not |
| 16:23.05 | blast007 | I'll be putting in some form of formatting (either BBCode or something similar) |
| 16:23.20 | ts | okies :) |
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| 17:45.10 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
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| 18:16.59 | AAA_awright | Does anyone know of a way (that uses the native BZFlag render preferably) to generate thumbnails from a bzflag world? |
| 18:18.12 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak|RDP] by ChanServ |
| 18:20.53 | AAA_awright | blast007: it is generally not a good idea to have users input their callsigns and passwords on a form on a local site |
| 18:24.31 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2502 (n=JeffM@users.gibbscam.com) |
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| 18:30.06 | delusional | 3 new comics there since the last time i was there |
| 18:30.09 | delusional | strayer's |
| 19:07.42 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
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| 20:37.00 | blast007 | AAA_awright: hmm? what's wrong with the way I'm doing it? |
| 20:37.12 | AAA_awright | it is a bad habbit... |
| 20:38.10 | blast007 | explain, because you probably didn't look at the code |
| 20:38.11 | blast007 | the form isn't submitting to my site |
| 20:38.11 | AAA_awright | it is posting to my.bzflag.org |
| 20:38.11 | blast007 | right, so what's bad about that? |
| 20:38.25 | AAA_awright | it should be posting to the login form ON my.bzflag.org |
| 20:38.52 | blast007 | you mean, it should be a link to the login form on m.b.o |
| 20:38.53 | AAA_awright | most people coundn't tell the diffrence between posting to bzflag and posting to a password-logger |
| 20:39.13 | AAA_awright | take my example" |
| 20:39.15 | AAA_awright | " |
| 20:39.16 | AAA_awright | https://labs.redjacket.ws/bzfsadmin/ |
| 20:40.09 | blast007 | looks like the same thing to me, except you have a link too |
| 20:40.34 | *** join/#bzflag ||Wolverine|| (n=The_Pred@d81-211-177-100.cust.tele2.it) |
| 20:41.19 | AAA_awright | blast007: the only reason I have a form is because only a limited group of people is supposed to be using this |
| 20:41.28 | AAA_awright | even then, I still have a link |
| 20:42.33 | blast007 | the only reason I have a form is because the m.b.o login page looks like crap :) |
| 20:55.04 | JeffM2501 | feel free to change it :) |
| 20:55.23 | blast007 | heh ;) |
| 20:55.48 | blast007 | I'd love to, but I barely have enough time to even do my new site :) |
| 21:02.44 | a_meteorite | what'd I'd really like for m.b.o. login is a css parameter... |
| 21:03.03 | a_meteorite | and then make the page easily themable |
| 21:03.18 | a_meteorite | a lot of div/id/class hooks... |
| 21:03.22 | blast007 | yeah |
| 21:03.45 | AAA_awright | JeffM2501: I can send some improvments via patch |
| 21:03.47 | blast007 | though it should probably have a standard look |
| 21:03.52 | a_meteorite | that's true |
| 21:03.54 | JeffM2501 | AAA_awright, always |
| 21:03.58 | blast007 | so that people become familiar with it |
| 21:04.03 | AAA_awright | yes |
| 21:04.10 | a_meteorite | I could spruce it up and keep it to the same look :P |
| 21:04.19 | a_meteorite | well, heck, probably anyone could spruce it up |
| 21:04.21 | AAA_awright | What I can do, si submit your callsign, but enter your password at my.bzflag.org |
| 21:04.47 | *** join/#bzflag navY (n=548ad77e@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:09.23 | *** join/#bzflag bz13 (n=5499c559@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:14.33 | blast007 | AAA_awright: I like that option too |
| 21:14.55 | AAA_awright | will get started on a patch very soon now |
| 21:15.05 | blast007 | all you have is maintain backwards compatability with the current stuff |
| 21:15.32 | brlcad | or not and just focus on 2.2 ;) |
| 21:16.38 | AAA_awright | for weblogin.php I mean |
| 21:18.15 | blast007 | brlcad: it's just the weblogin stuff |
| 21:18.27 | blast007 | existing sites use that, so we can't break it :) |
| 21:19.22 | JeffM2501 | maybe make it so you can pass in a CSS URL as a paramater so people can change it's look to match there site. |
| 21:20.07 | blast007 | JeffM2501: we mentioned that already ;) |
| 21:20.11 | JeffM2501 | ahh, sorry |
| 21:20.15 | blast007 | there's two sides to that |
| 21:20.18 | a_meteorite | yeah, then do some nice class/id hooks |
| 21:20.34 | blast007 | it would be nice to have it look consistent so people get used to the "official" page |
| 21:20.44 | JeffM2501 | need some sort of unfakeable "certified" logo |
| 21:20.55 | blast007 | heh |
| 21:21.04 | JeffM2501 | use the word "genuine" |
| 21:21.08 | blast007 | or just put "d000d, look at the address bar" |
| 21:22.03 | a_meteorite | lol |
| 21:22.12 | blast007 | Genuine BZFlag Login System! It's Certified! |
| 21:22.33 | a_meteorite | you could absolutely position a logo on the page... :P |
| 21:22.37 | JeffM2501 | use a 27 didgit key |
| 21:22.39 | a_meteorite | but anyone could fake that, hehe |
| 21:25.52 | AAA_awright | JeffM2501: that unfakeable logo is called an SSL certificate |
| 21:27.22 | JBdiGriz | Genuine BZFlag Developer! They're certifiable! |
| 21:33.45 | *** join/#bzflag Guu (n=supybot@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:41.57 | AAA_awright | I noticed that tokens generated with weblogin.php don't work on BZFlag servers, am I correct? Is this intentional? |
| 21:42.07 | brlcad | restarting list server |
| 21:42.19 | JeffM2501 | tokens are one shot deals |
| 21:42.35 | JeffM2501 | and it compares the IP |
| 21:42.42 | JeffM2501 | so yeah it's intentional |
| 21:43.12 | *** join/#bzflag wegstar_away (i=wegstar@166.15.185.213.dk-hvi.res.dyn.perspektivbredband.net) |
| 21:44.21 | AAA_awright | okay |
| 21:49.56 | brlcad | dammit |
| 21:51.32 | brlcad | is there an easy means to determine which process is associated with an established tcp/ip port? |
| 21:52.28 | ts | ~bzflist |
| 21:53.01 | Chestal | brlcad: netstat -tp or something maybe? |
| 21:54.54 | brlcad | no such luck (bsd netstat) |
| 21:55.02 | Chestal | ah |
| 21:55.10 | Chestal | don't know much about bsd |
| 21:55.41 | brlcad | manpage doesn't list any option relating to processes as far as I can garner |
| 21:56.31 | brlcad | .bz has several http-outbound connections to sf.net going that are still active even with apache fully shut down (so something else is running) |
| 21:56.46 | Chestal | do you have sockstat? |
| 21:56.59 | brlcad | oh, yes |
| 21:57.20 | Chestal | I don't know how to use that, though :-) |
| 21:58.09 | uso | brlcad: try lsof |
| 21:58.14 | brlcad | Chestal: that's perfect |
| 21:58.18 | brlcad | gave exactly that |
| 21:58.30 | brlcad | uso: that's for open files, not what I needed -- but thanks ;) |
| 21:58.48 | uso | has also an tcp optio, at least under linux |
| 21:58.49 | brlcad | unless lsof has an option for port descriptors too |
| 21:58.54 | brlcad | ah |
| 21:59.16 | brlcad | either way, sockstat was perfect.. "culprit" found.. and another mystery |
| 21:59.23 | brlcad | dutchrai bzfs 95346 7 tcp4 66.111.56.50:49846 66.35.250.210:80 |
| 21:59.35 | brlcad | all of dutchrai's bzfs processes |
| 21:59.48 | brlcad | "that should not happen" |
| 22:00.02 | JeffM2501 | masterban |
| 22:00.12 | JeffM2501 | the curl issue where it woudln't close the connections |
| 22:00.35 | brlcad | hmmmm, that's true though I though it was client-only |
| 22:00.54 | JeffM2501 | client does MOTD to SF, server does MasterBan |
| 22:01.08 | JeffM2501 | they both use the same curl manager code |
| 22:01.36 | brlcad | yeah, it makes sense.. i just hadn't heard any reports |
| 22:03.13 | JeffM2501 | IIRC the bug was in our code, not curl |
| 22:03.19 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=troublem@cpe-24-28-107-184.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 22:04.23 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban) |
| 22:04.29 | brlcad | ahh, dutchrai's using a custom-compiled bzfs .. not the up-to-date system one |
| 22:05.07 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o brlcad] by ChanServ |
| 22:17.56 | *** join/#bzflag COOLROBERT (n=455c7c84@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 22:18.29 | COOLROBERT | THET IT GO |
| 22:18.42 | spldart | wha? |
| 22:18.58 | spldart | U B G00D? |
| 22:20.14 | AAA_awright | are we going to use one word for the login name? Online, it is "username", on the listserver and BZFlag it is "callsign" (which should be prefered) |
| 22:24.45 | JBdiGriz | Don't remove spaces from callsigns |
| 22:25.03 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=Constitu@gateway.pct.civiltec.com) |
| 22:25.07 | JeffM2501 | I like callsign |
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| 22:46.05 | bz07 | hey how do u make new maps? |
| 22:46.13 | brlcad | very carefully |
| 22:46.18 | bz07 | ........... |
| 22:46.28 | bz07 | =( |
| 22:46.53 | JeffM2501 | wow |
| 22:46.56 | brlcad | heh, that was too easy |
| 22:47.05 | *** join/#bzflag ducktape (n=4778f569@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 22:47.29 | Birdie | you maybe scared away one of the biggest map makers of the future |
| 22:47.35 | wegstar | heh |
| 22:47.40 | brlcad | mebbie |
| 22:48.05 | JBdiGriz | If that's what it takes to scare him, I doubt he will make many maps. |
| 22:48.09 | brlcad | and I was even very careful about it *bada tsk* |
| 22:48.10 | wegstar | that was a bash.org moment |
| 22:49.15 | brlcad | attack of the cgi:irc? |
| 22:49.28 | JeffM2501 | still winter break for many |
| 22:49.40 | JBdiGriz | I was just wondering when classes start. |
| 22:49.57 | JeffM2501 | some started this week, some will start next week |
| 22:50.02 | Birdie | some get bored faster than others:) |
| 22:50.10 | JBdiGriz | Evidently the ethics classes don't get started until next week. |
| 23:01.12 | spldart | JB is right.... I left here cuz someone was a dic.... an erectile dysfunction before but I came back. If that dude was the next LouMan he will be back :) |
| 23:02.59 | a_meteorite | ... |
| 23:04.49 | *** join/#bzflag biggeruniverse (n=root@adsl-68-90-161-137.dsl.ksc2mo.swbell.net) |
| 23:04.59 | biggeruniverse | any MissileWar admins here? |
| 23:05.15 | biggeruniverse | your server has been overrun by cheater/tks |
| 23:05.16 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03t-s * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: Simplify _countdownResumeTime code (tnx uso) |
| 23:06.10 | brlcad | spldart: you left? |
| 23:06.10 | biggeruniverse | ? |
| 23:06.10 | spldart | heh |
| 23:06.10 | spldart | nope |
| 23:06.10 | spldart | but |
| 23:06.30 | JBdiGriz | He probably misinterpreted our discussions about Arrogant Bastard. ;-) |
| 23:06.35 | biggeruniverse | what is rule one? |
| 23:06.39 | biggeruniverse | that's me! |
| 23:06.41 | spldart | there was some complaints about an hour ago about teamates stealing the team flag and delivering it to an oppossing team |
| 23:06.58 | JeffM2501 | your a beer? |
| 23:06.59 | spldart | on Missile ware |
| 23:07.07 | biggeruniverse | still happening when I got on there |
| 23:07.08 | spldart | mmMMmm beer |
| 23:07.19 | biggeruniverse | no, I'm an arrogant bastard |
| 23:07.25 | JBdiGriz | That's a beer. |
| 23:07.33 | biggeruniverse | it's also a me |
| 23:07.33 | brlcad | mm.. BeEvERages |
| 23:07.33 | spldart | I'm just a bastard... you got arrogant on me :(* |
| 23:07.36 | ts | Someone test this pls |
| 23:07.43 | JeffM2501 | your parents arn't maried? |
| 23:07.52 | biggeruniverse | not anymore |
| 23:07.53 | JBdiGriz | There's Arrogant Bastard to be tested? |
| 23:07.54 | spldart | Not that kinda bastard |
| 23:08.03 | spldart | :ditto bu |
| 23:08.05 | JeffM2501 | dosn't sound like your much of a bastard then |
| 23:08.14 | biggeruniverse | you're |
| 23:08.24 | spldart | I'm a mega maya maya bastard... so is BU... |
| 23:08.36 | brlcad | you're mexican? |
| 23:08.43 | spldart | que? |
| 23:08.48 | biggeruniverse | no |
| 23:09.03 | biggeruniverse | adonde es tu madre |
| 23:09.08 | spldart | LOL |
| 23:09.16 | spldart | devil |
| 23:19.35 | *** join/#bzflag Birdie_ (n=Birdie__@d54C12302.access.telenet.be) |
| 23:27.02 | *** join/#bzflag tannerld (n=tanner@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 23:29.07 | brlcad | hmm.. no girl |
| 23:30.42 | brlcad | it's profound |
| 23:30.59 | JBdiGriz | TMI |
| 23:31.35 | JBdiGriz | or is that pro-found? |
| 23:31.35 | brlcad | yet never enough |
| 23:50.24 | *** join/#bzflag Birdie (n=Birdie__@d54C12302.access.telenet.be) |