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| 00:26.36 | spldart | woah.. 533 gig on a 666 gig file server now :-0 And so much that wont fit on there :( |
| 00:27.18 | *** join/#bzflag codergeek42 (n=peter@fedora/codergeek42) |
| 00:33.39 | a_meteorite | yeah, I'm pushing on space too... 45.5GB left of 160GB |
| 00:33.49 | a_meteorite | but it's like 4 years of my life :o |
| 00:39.09 | codergeek42 | My 120 gig storage drive has 12 gigs of anime and other videos, and nearly 70 gigs of ISO images. :o |
| 00:39.13 | spldart | hehe |
| 00:39.20 | Flash | so I looked at the TODO list and decided to remove support for the /ghost command |
| 00:39.37 | Flash | I created a patch (I think) but I'm having trouble testing it before uploading |
| 00:39.45 | Flash | can someone walk me through it? |
| 00:39.57 | a_meteorite | Flash: /ghost is still used for servers with /register and /identify |
| 00:40.10 | Flash | then why was it on the TODO list? |
| 00:40.14 | a_meteorite | until /reg and /id are removed, it should stay, me thinks |
| 00:40.33 | a_meteorite | cause it's a TODO to remove local registration last I checked :P |
| 00:40.50 | Flash | having cleaned up the code, removing /reg and /id would be easy enough |
| 00:43.24 | blast007 | local registration in 2.1 is currently removed |
| 00:43.35 | a_meteorite | oh, then /ghost should go :) |
| 00:45.10 | blast007 | it might already be :) |
| 00:45.15 | a_meteorite | hehe |
| 00:52.25 | Flash | well, /ghost was there last time I checked... back to the original question: can someone walk me through creating and submitting a patch? |
| 00:58.15 | blast007 | Flash: in which version of bzflag? |
| 00:58.20 | Flash | 2.1 |
| 00:58.29 | Flash | ~bzcvs |
| 00:58.30 | ibot | cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvsroot/bzflag co -P bzflag (this is for HEAD ie: 2.1 see also bz20cvs) |
| 00:58.33 | Flash | that one |
| 00:59.15 | blast007 | ah, seems it is |
| 01:00.01 | Flash | although the logic behind removing /ghost, /register, and /identify as a block makes sense |
| 01:00.42 | L4m3r | local reg should just be removed |
| 01:00.55 | blast007 | I thought the reason for removing it was so that something better would be put in |
| 01:01.02 | L4m3r | throw in a plugin system to handle local auth if need be |
| 01:01.55 | Flash | I just wanted to get started with the code base, and this was on the TODO list |
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| 01:02.30 | Flash | how do I create/test/submit a patch (I think I can figure out the submit part) |
| 01:02.54 | blast007 | testing is pretty easy |
| 01:03.39 | blast007 | you just get a clean code, apply the patch, and see if it works |
| 01:04.02 | Flash | in sequence: get clean code (I can do that) |
| 01:04.10 | Flash | apply the patch: ??? |
| 01:04.17 | Flash | see if it works: ??? |
| 01:15.39 | blast007 | yeah |
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| 01:41.18 | spldart | droool |
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| 02:06.40 | spldart | Geeez |
| 02:07.41 | spldart | Montoya is a poor sport and a liar... says I was swearing at him and tried to poll ban me on silvercat... which of course was unsuccessful. I was in the middle of defending my base from 2 then 3 oppossing team too. hrm |
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| 02:15.57 | Flash | spldart: I don't seem to run into you on silvercat that often |
| 02:16.20 | *** part/#bzflag ibunny (n=alex@pdpc/supporter/active/jolie) |
| 02:16.52 | spldart | depends on how you define 'often'. Do you play as 'Flash' on bz? |
| 02:18.56 | spldart | btw i quit playing silver for a bit cuz I'm so upset that a regular player like montoya would try something like that... In case some popped in right after my 'Geez' ;-) |
| 02:21.50 | spldart | meh |
| 02:23.13 | Flash | spldart: come to a-delusion's server |
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| 02:57.25 | *** join/#bzflag Bluer (n=user@about/essy/terimahkSC/Bluer) |
| 03:04.54 | spldart | I love the retro 'Battle Zone' look of a-delsions's server |
| 03:11.34 | spldart | What is the purpose to a public test server anywho? |
| 03:11.36 | spldart | Just curious |
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| 03:49.43 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 03:52.31 | PuMpErNiCkEl | Public testing? |
| 03:55.59 | spldart | description= test server, 1 player slot for one team, 10 player slots for another team, 5 observer positions, server owner in 1 slot, 10 bots in other team slots and observers are random players loggin in trying to play but getting autoteamed to observer |
| 03:56.26 | PuMpErNiCkEl | Advertising? |
| 03:56.48 | spldart | hrm... didn't notice any addys |
| 03:56.58 | spldart | was wondering if a reason had eluded me |
| 03:57.11 | PuMpErNiCkEl | Map advertisement, not money-producing advertisement. |
| 03:57.27 | spldart | interesting |
| 03:57.41 | spldart | didn't noticed much to the map but perhaps |
| 03:58.01 | spldart | thank you for shedding some light on a possibility |
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| 03:59.43 | PuMpErNiCkEl | np |
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| 05:41.15 | *** join/#bzflag SilverFox (n=silverfo@c-24-21-120-156.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 05:41.37 | SilverFox | Anyone know where I can take a look at trepan's physics driver map (for physics examples) ? |
| 06:26.25 | SilverFox | is there an easy way to have a material match a "zone" ? |
| 06:26.33 | SilverFox | err.. |
| 06:26.34 | SilverFox | sry. |
| 06:26.43 | SilverFox | I meant is there an easy way to have a mesh match a "zone" ? |
| 06:26.57 | a_meteorite | um, match up position and side? |
| 06:26.59 | a_meteorite | *size |
| 06:27.10 | SilverFox | yeah, just seems rather difficult. |
| 06:27.19 | a_meteorite | how is that difficult? :) |
| 06:27.37 | a_meteorite | unless you have like 50 meshes, hehe |
| 06:27.46 | SilverFox | http://trepan.bzflag.bz/noshow/icetest/ice_mesh.bzw |
| 06:28.17 | a_meteorite | :o |
| 06:28.30 | SilverFox | just not seeing an easy way. |
| 06:28.46 | SilverFox | I'd like to make sure that flags only fall on the mesh (not the ground) |
| 06:29.02 | a_meteorite | this is WAY over my head |
| 06:29.09 | SilverFox | me too! |
| 06:29.10 | a_meteorite | :) |
| 06:34.51 | DTRemenak | SilverFox: a flag will never fall on the mesh |
| 06:35.04 | DTRemenak | it's an illegal landing spot, just like a pyramid |
| 06:35.13 | SilverFox | dtr, funny... it is right now. |
| 06:35.18 | SilverFox | silvercat.bzflag.org:1111 |
| 06:35.28 | DTRemenak | hmm |
| 06:36.04 | SilverFox | we've been playing with it for a week or two, w/out known incident. |
| 06:36.22 | SilverFox | I had to change a couple things to get it to work. |
| 06:36.33 | SilverFox | -fb maybe. I forget. |
| 06:36.50 | DTRemenak | -fb will turn on flags on boxes |
| 06:37.22 | DTRemenak | they still should not spawn on meshes and pyramids... it's possible someone fixed it so that they spawn on any horizontal surface |
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| 07:04.43 | *** join/#bzflag KAIRE (n=5705f48e@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 07:04.47 | KAIRE | CIAO |
| 07:04.51 | KAIRE | HELLO |
| 07:05.00 | a_meteorite | ... uh hi |
| 07:05.05 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 07:05.05 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 07:05.22 | KAIRE | YOU SPIKERE ITALIAN |
| 07:05.23 | KAIRE | ? |
| 07:05.32 | KAIRE | SPIKE* |
| 07:05.41 | a_meteorite | no |
| 07:05.46 | KAIRE | OK |
| 07:05.49 | a_meteorite | someone else here might... I'm not sure |
| 07:05.55 | KAIRE | DUELL?? |
| 07:06.19 | a_meteorite | try saying what you want in english, and if you can't, say it in italian and I can run it through a translator :) |
| 07:07.06 | Tupone | maybe someone should post a chat for him, pointing that this is a dev only one |
| 07:07.11 | KAIRE | YOU NNYOU GOT SCHOLL?? |
| 07:18.53 | SilverFox | I keep getting "ECONNRESET/EPIPE" |
| 07:18.56 | SilverFox | what causes that? |
| 07:19.16 | SilverFox | the client just dies, w/out notice. |
| 08:13.06 | SilverFox | What's the difference between "passable", "sides passable", and "bottom passable"? |
| 08:13.32 | *** part/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=jeffm@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501) |
| 08:29.23 | SportChick | DTRemenak: are you awake? |
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| 15:17.41 | DTRemenak | SportChick: yup |
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| 17:05.23 | SilverFox | What's the difference between "passable", "sides passable", and "bottom passable"? |
| 17:06.17 | CBG | seems self explanatory :) |
| 17:06.43 | SilverFox | so, its for a mesh. |
| 17:06.53 | SilverFox | what makes a side more of a side than a bottom? |
| 17:07.20 | SilverFox | or does that simply mean anything moving in a -Z direction will drop? |
| 17:07.29 | CBG | As you look at the object, the "sides" would be the 4 perpendicular to your line of sight. |
| 17:07.33 | SilverFox | or can drop, I guess. |
| 17:08.18 | SilverFox | that doesn't make sense to me. |
| 17:08.28 | SilverFox | lets presume we're talking about a cube. |
| 17:08.48 | SilverFox | and I'm facing one side head on. |
| 17:08.53 | CBG | It's not a very clear way to put it, true. |
| 17:09.08 | SilverFox | then the right and left "sides" are perpendicular to my line of sight. |
| 17:09.11 | SilverFox | no others though. |
| 17:09.20 | SilverFox | excuse me, the front and back sides |
| 17:09.31 | CBG | The sides facing down and up are not "sides" - or so I assume. |
| 17:09.38 | CBG | And the others are. |
| 17:09.58 | SilverFox | so, what if we are talking about a 1024-ygon |
| 17:10.13 | CBG | But it get's silly with a more complex shape. |
| 17:10.15 | CBG | Indeed... |
| 17:10.48 | JeffM2501 | IIRC it's only for meshboxes |
| 17:11.07 | SilverFox | I see. |
| 17:11.13 | JeffM2501 | for a full mesh you can do shotthru and drivethru on a per face basis |
| 17:11.21 | JeffM2501 | cus you define each face |
| 17:11.24 | SilverFox | ah. that makes sense. |
| 17:11.29 | JeffM2501 | for the meshbox you don't define each face |
| 17:11.55 | SilverFox | JeffM2501, do you know of an easy way to create a zone that overlaps a full mesh's driveable (top) area? |
| 17:12.11 | JeffM2501 | what are you trying to do? |
| 17:12.33 | SilverFox | Trying to get flags to only spawn on this: http://trepan.bzflag.bz/noshow/icetest/ice_mesh.bzw |
| 17:12.55 | JeffM2501 | that's going to be a complex zone |
| 17:13.20 | SilverFox | sounds like there has to be a zone for each top face. |
| 17:13.27 | SilverFox | which means a lot of zone. |
| 17:13.28 | SilverFox | s |
| 17:13.29 | JeffM2501 | IIRC there isn't a way to use a mesh as a zone, so you'll have to make a bunch of zones that fit it |
| 17:13.42 | JeffM2501 | well you may be able to compbine the ones that overlap and merge |
| 17:13.53 | JeffM2501 | but yes, a complex zone has many parts |
| 17:13.59 | SilverFox | bummer. And there is no easy way to get your modeler to do that work. |
| 17:14.08 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 17:14.18 | JeffM2501 | a modeler dosn't know what a bzflag zone is |
| 17:14.24 | JeffM2501 | and we can't define zones from meshes |
| 17:14.29 | SilverFox | maybe I could write a script to do it... |
| 17:14.34 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 17:14.43 | JeffM2501 | be a lot of geometry fiting |
| 17:15.20 | SilverFox | yeah, I don't think I have the understanding of modeling to do it. |
| 17:16.22 | JeffM2501 | define small zones for each flag |
| 17:16.33 | JeffM2501 | basicly a spawn point for the flag |
| 17:18.48 | SilverFox | in this particular map, the entire area I'd like to use for a zone has a Z altitude of 2. |
| 17:19.11 | JeffM2501 | and it has to be exact to the edges? you can't fudge it a bit? |
| 17:19.35 | SilverFox | I've thought about placing an invisible/passable pyramid in the area that I don't want to have flags in, but apparently flags will spawn in a passable mesh. |
| 17:19.44 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 17:19.44 | SilverFox | it can fudge. |
| 17:19.54 | JeffM2501 | then fudge it up to be inside the area |
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| 18:43.25 | [NP]Tangent | hey, do you guys know about BZfed? |
| 18:43.29 | [NP]Tangent | or where I can grab it? |
| 18:43.34 | [NP]Tangent | I see a link on the forums, but it's broken |
| 18:44.03 | [NP]Tangent | ah |
| 18:44.03 | [NP]Tangent | sourceforge For the win! |
| 18:49.25 | ts | It will all go into the 3d modeller direction in the future |
| 18:52.20 | JeffM2501 | voxels man.. voxels are the future! |
| 18:52.30 | purple_cow | hah |
| 18:52.46 | *** join/#bzflag bz19 (n=4b501481@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:54.16 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, I commited a change to head that may need another decks night to test properly. |
| 18:54.30 | Erroneous | cool |
| 18:54.32 | Erroneous | what change? |
| 18:55.37 | JeffM2501 | timestamp and lag compensation for remote players |
| 18:55.40 | Erroneous | ah |
| 18:55.54 | JeffM2501 | and a clock that is synced to the server |
| 18:56.06 | JeffM2501 | blast and I tested it a bit and it seemed to work out just fine |
| 18:56.09 | Erroneous | that is a rather large change |
| 18:56.14 | JeffM2501 | not realy |
| 18:56.24 | aedrafzt | cool |
| 18:56.27 | Erroneous | conceptually large |
| 18:56.33 | JeffM2501 | just one new message, a new class and then some changes to how the postion is interped |
| 18:56.36 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:56.42 | ts | Does anyone remember why pollSet perm is given to the verified group? |
| 18:56.53 | blast007 | we had a rather low lag situation too |
| 18:57.15 | Erroneous | maybe I'll see if I can convince my dad to play, his lags are usually >300ms |
| 18:57.17 | JeffM2501 | yeah that's why It needs more testing |
| 18:57.18 | blast007 | jeff had around 122ms, I had like 40 or 50 |
| 18:57.25 | ts | Erroneous: After investigation it seems like you have done the check-in at least |
| 18:57.33 | Erroneous | ts: yes, I know |
| 18:57.53 | JeffM2501 | I'm gonna get it building on my mac and see if I can use a remote server to verify that we seem to hit the same places at the same time |
| 18:57.56 | Erroneous | it was discussed though, and I don't remember why I checked in what I did |
| 18:58.02 | JeffM2501 | then I can run some torrents to add lag :) |
| 18:58.09 | blast007 | JeffM2501: we should get someone to run a server on 56k so we can test it ;) |
| 18:58.14 | Erroneous | like I said, feel free to change it and see who screams :) |
| 18:58.39 | ts | This is not my prefered way of working :p |
| 18:59.27 | JeffM2501 | ts, welcome to the real world ;) |
| 18:59.41 | ts | JeffM2501: Cia doesn't list your changes :( |
| 18:59.47 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 18:59.50 | JeffM2501 | it was down at the time |
| 18:59.57 | blast007 | ts: I always take it pollSet away, because I don't want people changing the wings flaps to 500 |
| 19:00.03 | blast007 | s/it // |
| 19:00.11 | JeffM2501 | CIA is a nice tool, but not something to be counted on. |
| 19:02.28 | *** join/#bzflag yosefk (n=4259a68d@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 19:04.45 | ts | yeah, I see :/ |
| 19:05.07 | JeffM2501 | thats why we have the commits list |
| 19:05.33 | ts | Do you mean the mailing list? |
| 19:05.38 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 19:05.48 | JeffM2501 | it gets a copy of the commtis as well |
| 19:05.48 | ts | This one doesn't have all entries, either |
| 19:05.57 | JeffM2501 | welcome to SF :) |
| 19:07.53 | ts | heh |
| 19:09.18 | yosefk | hello |
| 19:16.30 | *** join/#bzflag Teppic (n=Teppic@cpc2-cbly2-0-0-cust985.glfd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:17.08 | Teppic | ~seen SilverFox |
| 19:17.30 | ibot | silverfox is currently on #bzflag (13h 36m 15s) #silvercat (13h 36m 15s). Has said a total of 44 messages. Is idling for 1h 57m 46s, last said: 'it can fudge.'. |
| 19:17.31 | Teppic | is that right? |
| 19:17.44 | Teppic | Ping SilverFox ? |
| 19:46.41 | *** join/#bzflag [NP]Tangent (n=hyperdev@71-212-209-112.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 19:50.33 | ts | JeffM2501: Do you know for what MsgGameTime is used for? |
| 19:54.21 | ts | What is the difference to MsgWhatTimeIsIt? |
| 19:57.17 | brad | Teppic: silverfox is at silvercat.bzflag.org:5154 if you still want him |
| 19:57.30 | Teppic | Hmm... |
| 19:58.00 | brad | ooops nvm , seems he's afk |
| 19:59.40 | Teppic | I think it's a logger |
| 19:59.40 | brad | yeah, maybe |
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| 20:35.16 | JeffM2501 | gameTime is for countdowns IIRC |
| 20:37.38 | JeffM2501 | ahh no sorry, it's for the skyt |
| 20:37.41 | JeffM2501 | it's timeof day stuff |
| 20:38.05 | JeffM2501 | the whitetime is it is for the epoch time and it's part ping and part clock |
| 20:38.10 | JeffM2501 | and it's sent UDP not TCP |
| 20:38.17 | JeffM2501 | to check the lag of an update packet |
| 20:54.22 | Tupone | hmm, it appears it has the bzfs time inside :| |
| 20:54.45 | JeffM2501 | the game time? or whattimeisit? |
| 20:55.06 | JeffM2501 | gametime has getTimeOfDay of the server |
| 20:55.35 | JeffM2501 | WhatTimeIsIt has the getSeconds of the bzfs timekeeper, so I can make a timekeeper on the the client that has the same time as the server |
| 20:55.55 | JeffM2501 | so that I can stamp packets with a server time from the client |
| 20:56.12 | JeffM2501 | it may not work, I may need to just use relitive client times. |
| 20:56.27 | JeffM2501 | yeah gametime has the servers time of day |
| 20:56.42 | JeffM2501 | my message is a little difrent |
| 20:56.49 | JeffM2501 | and sent UDP |
| 20:57.40 | JeffM2501 | and nice to see you commit again Tupone ;) |
| 20:57.50 | a_meteorite | why would you send the time with UDP? isn't that... unreliable for time? :) |
| 20:57.56 | JeffM2501 | done with the traveling for a while |
| 20:58.08 | JeffM2501 | a_meteorite, yes it is, but it' repesents the time of an update packet |
| 20:58.12 | a_meteorite | ah.. |
| 20:58.15 | JeffM2501 | the code knows if a packet is lost and ignores it |
| 20:58.23 | Tupone | trying to fix gentoo problem on amd64 |
| 20:58.23 | JeffM2501 | they are stamped with ID values |
| 20:58.40 | JeffM2501 | well it's still good to see you commit |
| 21:09.19 | ts | Hmm, I don't understand why we need a MsgWhatTimeIsIt.. |
| 21:09.53 | ts | couldn't gameTime be used? |
| 21:10.22 | JeffM2501 | no, cus it's just time of day |
| 21:10.25 | JeffM2501 | the seconds part |
| 21:10.30 | JeffM2501 | and I need it to be UDP |
| 21:11.14 | JeffM2501 | also I needed an ID tag |
| 21:11.19 | JeffM2501 | to handle packet loss |
| 21:11.25 | JeffM2501 | so another message was easyer |
| 21:11.53 | ts | packet loss is a problem, yeah |
| 21:12.07 | JeffM2501 | this is more like a special ping |
| 21:13.13 | ts | Well, we have pings in MsgLagPing ;) |
| 21:13.16 | ts | j/k |
| 21:13.25 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 21:13.39 | ts | That code is so odd |
| 21:13.45 | JeffM2501 | indeed |
| 21:13.49 | JeffM2501 | I fear the lagstats code |
| 21:13.58 | JeffM2501 | messages are cheap, so I just added my own |
| 21:14.06 | JeffM2501 | makes it modular |
| 21:14.25 | ts | I've doublechecked with what protocol MsgLagPing is sent...should be UDP but the results look like TCP/IP..odd |
| 21:16.28 | JeffM2501 | we'll have to see if my code even stays |
| 21:16.34 | JeffM2501 | it needs large scale testing |
| 21:16.57 | JeffM2501 | and I have to lag comp the shots at some point |
| 21:17.29 | JeffM2501 | then at that point I think we can move the GM logic to the server, and prevent GM cheats |
| 21:17.54 | ts | The whole input/output scheme needs to be changed |
| 21:18.04 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 21:18.48 | ts | GM sends updates of its shot positions, IIRC |
| 21:18.56 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 21:19.00 | JeffM2501 | I want to move that to the server |
| 21:19.08 | JeffM2501 | so the client isn't responsible for that |
| 21:19.31 | JeffM2501 | and it can be a more accurate track |
| 21:19.40 | JeffM2501 | cus right now it's affected by the lag of both people |
| 21:20.07 | ts | not only the lag but also by the physics from my point of view |
| 21:20.22 | JeffM2501 | Tupone, like make them smart and steer around? |
| 21:20.49 | JeffM2501 | or just blow them up when they hit? |
| 21:25.47 | Chestal | updates for GM are only sent when needed (i.e. target changes) IIRC |
| 21:26.05 | Chestal | of course that results in slightly different GM paths for each player |
| 21:26.08 | JeffM2501 | unless somone is cheating :) |
| 21:26.42 | Chestal | MsgLagPing should indeed be UDP, I think there was/is a problem for observers, I vaguely remember |
| 21:26.55 | a_meteorite | what about server-side laser? |
| 21:27.26 | a_meteorite | and distant players don't send as many update packets.. (I recall that being in a TODO or something [not that TODO means anything]) :) |
| 21:27.45 | JeffM2501 | yeah, there is a todo |
| 21:27.51 | JeffM2501 | there are other solutions to the problem |
| 21:27.51 | Chestal | distant to who? |
| 21:27.56 | a_meteorite | to yourself |
| 21:27.58 | JeffM2501 | laser dosn't have updates |
| 21:28.02 | a_meteorite | ah |
| 21:28.09 | Chestal | a_meteorite: that does not go well with the dead reckoning as is |
| 21:28.11 | a_meteorite | wasn't there a shorten laser length or something? |
| 21:28.13 | JeffM2501 | server side hits will solve that and we can send less updates to distance plaers |
| 21:28.17 | a_meteorite | yeah |
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| 21:28.30 | JeffM2501 | yeah that todo wasn't thought out much :) |
| 21:28.30 | a_meteorite | hey TD-Linux |
| 21:29.16 | Chestal | the server could of course do a second level dead reckoning for each pair of players or something |
| 21:29.26 | ts | We need to go a long way for server side hits still |
| 21:29.32 | JeffM2501 | that we do |
| 21:29.38 | JeffM2501 | Chestal, yeah that is the idea |
| 21:30.04 | JeffM2501 | basicly you can get less updates for those that are very far away |
| 21:30.11 | JeffM2501 | but teleporters can make that change fast |
| 21:30.33 | TD-Linux | hi |
| 21:32.21 | ts | JeffM2501: That would be prediction logic ;) |
| 21:32.40 | JeffM2501 | yeah you'd have to have some |
| 21:32.49 | JeffM2501 | it's not trivial, but it's dooable |
| 21:33.17 | ts | easier than the physics change, I guess |
| 21:33.24 | JeffM2501 | both need to be done |
| 21:33.28 | JeffM2501 | in the end |
| 21:33.52 | ts | yeah...they're both at the light at the end of the tunnel |
| 21:34.08 | JeffM2501 | no, that's ogre ;) |
| 21:36.04 | ts | orgre? What is an ogre? |
| 21:36.30 | JeffM2501 | a game engine |
| 21:36.41 | ts | gah |
| 21:37.34 | ts | That would be like trashing all the work already done |
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| 21:38.00 | JeffM2501 | depends how it's done :) |
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| 22:53.55 | spldart | oOOooo 0045 |
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