irclog2html for #bzflag on 20060925

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`02:44.12`	`Legolas_`	`hi all`
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`04:24.38`	`stjepan`	`hi`
`04:25.07`	`stjepan`	`I use linux. If I run bzflag as normal user, it's quite slow. If I run it as root, it's very smooth`
`04:25.13`	`stjepan`	`it's a graphics problem`
`04:25.27`	`JeffM2501`	`sounds like a permision thing`
`04:25.30`	`JeffM2501`	`you have an ATI?`
`04:26.45`	`stjepan`	`yes`
`04:27.02`	`JeffM2501`	`they have an option of having a group for users that can run hardware 3d`
`04:27.07`	`[NP]Tangent`	`stjepan, I have that same problem`
`04:27.10`	`JeffM2501`	`make sure your normal user is added to that group`
`04:27.17`	`stjepan`	`[NP]Tangent, do you know how to fix it?`
`04:27.23`	`stjepan`	`JeffM2501, in xorg.conf?`
`04:27.27`	`[NP]Tangent`	`no idea, just ask Jeff`
`04:27.29`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`04:27.32`	`JeffM2501`	`it's a user thing`
`04:27.37`	`JeffM2501`	`open your user manager`
`04:27.40`	`JeffM2501`	`and add your user to your group`
`04:27.43`	`stjepan`	`JeffM2501, I must add myself to video group?`
`04:27.51`	`JeffM2501`	`it may be called that yeah`
`04:27.57`	`JeffM2501`	`I don't remember the specifics`
`04:28.05`	`JeffM2501`	`but check your groups, and see what your not in`
`04:28.05`	`stjepan`	`ah ok I'll try...`
`04:29.11`	`L4m3r`	`so Jeff, have you played with Vista RC1 yet?`
`04:29.18`	`JeffM2501`	`nope`
`04:29.28`	`JeffM2501`	`have no need of it's features`
`04:29.33`	`L4m3r`	`well, bzflag runs at least :P`
`04:29.42`	`JeffM2501`	`so does windows XP :)`
`04:29.44`	`L4m3r`	`oh no, I was just playing with it`
`04:29.47`	`*** join/#bzflag stjepan (n=stjepan@83-131-76-118.adsl.net.t-com.hr)`
`04:29.53`	`stjepan`	`hi`
`04:29.59`	`stjepan`	`JeffM2501, still doesn't work :(`
`04:30.07`	`JeffM2501`	`dunno then`
`04:30.19`	`JeffM2501`	`when you run as your normal user, what is the GL rendering string in bzflag?`
`04:30.44`	`stjepan`	`wait`
`04:31.11`	`stjepan`	`JeffM2501, the same as with root`
`04:31.36`	`JeffM2501`	`dunno then`
`04:32.23`	`JeffM2501`	`the GL speed is controled by your driver`
`04:33.11`	`stjepan`	`JeffM2501, I found something`
`04:33.14`	`stjepan`	`crw-rw-rw- 1 root root 226, 0 Sep 25 06:09 /dev/dri/card0`
`04:33.21`	`stjepan`	`JeffM2501, is this ok?`
`04:33.25`	`JeffM2501`	`dunno`
`04:33.30`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm not an ati expert`
`04:33.40`	`stjepan`	`those are the permissions of my card`
`04:33.42`	`JeffM2501`	`I just remembered something from when I installed ati drivers`
`04:33.50`	`stjepan`	`I use opensource ati drivers`
`04:33.52`	`JeffM2501`	`you using DRI or the ATI drivers?`
`04:33.52`	`stjepan`	`not fglrx ones`
`04:33.53`	`JeffM2501`	`oh`
`04:33.56`	`stjepan`	`DRI drivers`
`04:33.57`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah then, I dono man`
`04:34.01`	`JeffM2501`	`what card?`
`04:34.04`	`stjepan`	`fglrx sucks :)`
`04:34.06`	`JeffM2501`	`DRI does not accelerate all cards`
`04:34.13`	`stjepan`	`JeffM2501, it does`
`04:34.14`	`JeffM2501`	`no.. no it dosn't, not for the cards it supports`
`04:34.22`	`JeffM2501`	`no.. no it dosn't, not 100%`
`04:34.24`	`stjepan`	`not all but does mine`
`04:34.26`	`JeffM2501`	`what card do you have?`
`04:34.29`	`stjepan`	`radeon 9600`
`04:34.38`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah it has some support for that card`
`04:34.48`	`JeffM2501`	`since it's an older chipset`
`04:34.56`	`JeffM2501`	`set the perms and see what happens.`
`04:35.07`	`JeffM2501`	`I personaly dislike most things about ATI`
`04:36.10`	`stjepan`	`old chipset?`
`04:36.13`	`stjepan`	`it's a new one`
`04:36.29`	`stjepan`	`and 3d accel for it is very new`
`04:36.36`	`stjepan`	`but ok thanks`
`04:36.53`	`L4m3r`	`9600 is not very new...`
`04:37.06`	`JeffM2501`	`it's years old`
`04:37.15`	`JeffM2501`	`the X1xxx series is new`
`04:37.40`	`L4m3r`	`I think the most recent variant is the 9600xt, which came out as a cheaper sister to the 9800xt`
`04:37.49`	`L4m3r`	`but that's even at least 3 years old`
`04:37.52`	`JeffM2501`	`it's all just reclocks of the old chip`
`04:38.12`	`JeffM2501`	`the 9x00 dosn't support the newer shaders the X series does`
`04:38.29`	`JeffM2501`	`tho I doubt DRI does shaders`
`04:39.01`	`stjepan`	`look, it's perfectly smooth as root`
`04:40.21`	`blast007`	`stjepan: as jeff had mentioned, check what the bzflag says your OpenGL driver is, in the text panel of the client`
`04:40.29`	`stjepan`	`blast007, I did`
`04:40.36`	`stjepan`	`it's the same`
`04:40.37`	`stjepan`	`it's ok`
`04:51.37`	`JeffM2501`	`brlcad, you awake?`
`04:52.23`	`DTRemenak`	`heh, "I personaly dislike most things about ATI." That showed remarkable tact and restraint :)`
`04:52.38`	`JeffM2501`	`I can be nice if I want to :)`
`04:52.48`	`DTRemenak`	`hehe`
`04:52.49`	`JeffM2501`	`and hey, I spent money on an ATI card`
`04:52.51`	`JeffM2501`	`twice!`
`04:53.02`	`DTRemenak`	`don't learn very fast, eh? :P`
`04:53.16`	`JeffM2501`	`well one I gave to my dad, it was in his laptop`
`04:53.20`	`DTRemenak`	`ah`
`04:53.24`	`DTRemenak`	`mobility`
`04:53.30`	`DTRemenak`	`I had one of those`
`04:53.33`	`JeffM2501`	`and the X1300 hsa been decent so far`
`04:53.57`	`JeffM2501`	`If I end up geting a dell lapy for me, I'll get another ATI :(`
`04:54.11`	`JeffM2501`	`maybe that's why part of me wants to get the HP`
`04:54.40`	`DTRemenak`	`only part?`
`04:54.52`	`blast007`	`I'd rather have an ATI then an Intel Extreme ;)`
`04:54.56`	`DTRemenak`	`eek`
`04:54.58`	`JeffM2501`	`well the dell will be less money for more stuff`
`04:55.17`	`DTRemenak`	`choice between the devil or a demon, huh blast007? :)`
`04:55.18`	`JeffM2501`	`ohh yeah I'm down to between an X1400 and a 7600`
`04:55.30`	`blast007`	`DTRemenak: pretty much`
`04:56.18`	`JeffM2501`	`I saw the dv9000 at best buy today, I love the case on it`
`04:56.20`	`JeffM2501`	`it's very slick`
`04:56.28`	`JeffM2501`	`very roundy`
`04:56.36`	`JeffM2501`	`the dells all look like gray boxes these days`
`04:56.38`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`04:56.58`	`blast007`	`:)`
`04:57.05`	`JeffM2501`	`I ain't stacking stuff on top of my laptop`
`04:57.10`	`L4m3r`	`stacking is for rackmounts`
`04:57.24`	`DTRemenak`	`I like rackmount`
`04:58.26`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm tryin to convice Jer to get some little 15 ru under desk racks :)`
`04:58.38`	`DTRemenak`	`sweet`
`04:58.52`	`DTRemenak`	`I am using my rackmount switch as a monitor stand at the moment :)`
`04:59.00`	`L4m3r`	`nice`
`04:59.20`	`DTRemenak`	`I'd had a couple switches die, so I went for industrial-grade :)`
`05:00.00`	`L4m3r`	`that's right, dad wants me to buy that wiring panel...`
`05:00.30`	`L4m3r`	`lol, we had a pair of racks in the comp sci lab in high school`
`05:00.52`	`L4m3r`	`they were pathetic. just a 2" steel rack with screw holes`
`05:01.10`	`DTRemenak`	`open racks are convenient for some kinds of work`
`05:01.23`	`DTRemenak`	`we used them for our cisco classes`
`05:02.25`	`L4m3r`	`it'd be nice to just have a removable back`
`05:02.50`	`L4m3r`	`otherwise it's just... a cheap piece of channel iron :P`
`05:03.23`	`DTRemenak`	`hehe`
`05:03.59`	`DTRemenak`	`if you're going to end up leaving the front and back off all the time anyway, why have all the extra sheet metal?`
`05:05.08`	`L4m3r`	`so there's something there to keep the weight of the hardware from bending the brackets?`
`05:05.40`	`DTRemenak`	`routers and switches are light`
`05:05.52`	`DTRemenak`	`and angle iron is strong`
`05:06.07`	`DTRemenak`	`actually ours were 3" channel`
`05:06.09`	`L4m3r`	`yeah, but the brackets attatched to the snap devices are not`
`05:06.29`	`L4m3r`	`and it's not "real" channel, just bent band iron`
`05:06.44`	`DTRemenak`	`ours were a real extruded channel`
`05:06.55`	`L4m3r`	`and the 360GB snap server was not so light ;)`
`05:07.03`	`DTRemenak`	`no, probably not :)`
`05:07.23`	`L4m3r`	`4x80GB drives`
`05:07.40`	`L4m3r`	`er, that'd be 320`
`05:07.50`	`L4m3r`	`it was a couple years ago lol`
`05:08.08`	`DTRemenak`	`we had a massive dell fileserver under the rack though`
`05:08.24`	`L4m3r`	`this one was only about 2" thick`
`05:08.27`	`DTRemenak`	`9x9gb scsi-180uw`
`05:08.46`	`DTRemenak`	`quad xeons`
`05:09.06`	`L4m3r`	`nice`
`05:09.25`	`L4m3r`	`and yes, real extruded channel is damn near invincible :)`
`05:09.34`	`L4m3r`	`as are most extruded metal forms`
`05:17.14`	`JeffM2501`	`yay for rendering :)`
`05:17.20`	`*** join/#bzflag dcat__ (n=dcat@hc65264bd.dhcp.vt.edu)`
`05:20.11`	`JeffM2501`	`http://www.opencombat.net/files/images/cover_akio_small.png`
`05:20.14`	`[NP]Tangent`	`hey Jeff`
`05:20.18`	`JeffM2501`	`hey`
`05:20.31`	`[NP]Tangent`	`you know how Stjephen was talking about how BZ runs fine in root, but not normal?`
`05:20.35`	`[NP]Tangent`	`I'm having something weird`
`05:20.47`	`[NP]Tangent`	`armagetron advanced (another openGL game) runs smooth, but bz does not anymore`
`05:21.03`	`[NP]Tangent`	`only things that have changed were a reinstall of X server`
`05:21.14`	`[NP]Tangent`	`think there's a component missing somewhere?`
`05:21.28`	`JeffM2501`	`what card?`
`05:22.20`	`[NP]Tangent`	`mind if I run the sysinfo script?`
`05:22.25`	`[NP]Tangent`	`er wait`
`05:22.27`	`[NP]Tangent`	`I'll copy paste`
`05:22.33`	`JeffM2501`	`you can do what ever ya want man :)`
`05:22.41`	`[NP]Tangent`	`ATI Technologies Inc Radeon R250 Lf [FireGL 9000]`
`05:22.58`	`JeffM2501`	`aww an R200`
`05:23.10`	`JeffM2501`	`your using the real ATI drivers then it looks like`
`05:23.22`	`JeffM2501`	`I'd re-run the installer for them, your X reinsall may have blown out part of them`
`05:23.39`	`[NP]Tangent`	`hmm`
`05:23.51`	`[NP]Tangent`	`I ran something yesterday that got OpenGL working`
`05:23.54`	`[NP]Tangent`	`but it's weird`
`05:24.00`	`JeffM2501`	`what distro of linux?`
`05:24.01`	`[NP]Tangent`	`bz is the only thing, it seems, that's running real choppy`
`05:24.04`	`[NP]Tangent`	`Ubuntu`
`05:24.24`	`[NP]Tangent`	`Ubuntu 6.06`
`05:24.28`	`JeffM2501`	`to get BZ to work with my ATI, I had to install the ATI drivers, then install the FGLX package`
`05:24.36`	`JeffM2501`	`then that made it work`
`05:24.40`	`JeffM2501`	`on ubuntu`
`05:25.24`	`DTRemenak`	`nice render`
`05:25.53`	`JeffM2501`	`came out ok`
`05:25.56`	`JeffM2501`	`tho the boots don't match`
`05:26.13`	`JeffM2501`	`they are from another model`
`05:26.22`	`JeffM2501`	`well another clothing set for that model`
`05:26.23`	`DTRemenak`	`thought they looked a bit strange`
`05:26.30`	`JeffM2501`	`they arn't shiny`
`05:26.37`	`DTRemenak`	`hehe`
`05:26.39`	`JeffM2501`	`the boots for the catsuit had heels`
`05:26.48`	`JeffM2501`	`these look better`
`05:27.05`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah, what's the point of having both heels and guns`
`05:27.35`	`JeffM2501`	`it dosn't look so bad when it's on the cover`
`05:27.42`	`JeffM2501`	`same URL, cover.png`
`05:28.02`	`[NP]Tangent`	`so jeff`
`05:28.12`	`JeffM2501`	`?`
`05:28.16`	`[NP]Tangent`	`should I reinstall xserver-xorg-drivers-ati`
`05:28.17`	`[NP]Tangent`	`?`
`05:28.22`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`05:28.29`	`JeffM2501`	`go to ati.com`
`05:28.35`	`JeffM2501`	`get the installer package from them`
`05:28.38`	`JeffM2501`	`run it, do what it says`
`05:28.49`	`DTRemenak`	`and watch everything break`
`05:28.49`	`JeffM2501`	`then make sure you have the fglx package`
`05:28.55`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah.. it may`
`05:28.58`	`DTRemenak`	`hehehe`
`05:28.58`	`JeffM2501`	`it didn't for me`
`05:29.04`	`JeffM2501`	`there new installer is prety good`
`05:29.15`	`DTRemenak`	`worked ok for me the only time I tried it too. the older ones were much worse`
`05:29.27`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah, they have been puting effort into it`
`05:29.34`	`JeffM2501`	`so kudos to them`
`05:33.13`	`[NP]Tangent`	`what's this?`
`05:33.22`	`[NP]Tangent`	`does their installer even work on Ubuntu?`
`05:33.54`	`L4m3r`	`shouldn't there be a "debian way"?`
`05:34.28`	`[NP]Tangent`	`there should be`
`05:34.28`	`[NP]Tangent`	`now to find it`
`05:35.08`	`JeffM2501`	`they arn't the fastest at updating to the closed source drivers`
`05:35.15`	`JeffM2501`	`so no, there isn't always a debian way`
`05:39.39`	`DTRemenak`	`no, sometimes the debian way is "build your own package"`
`05:39.56`	`[NP]Tangent`	`so I have: xorg-driver-fglrx, xorg-driver-fglrx-dev, and xserver-xorg-driver-ati`
`05:40.12`	`[NP]Tangent`	`already installed`
`05:40.17`	`[NP]Tangent`	`now how is it that one game works right`
`05:40.18`	`JeffM2501`	`it's that ati package that I think is your problem`
`05:40.22`	`[NP]Tangent`	`and bz doesn't`
`05:40.27`	`JeffM2501`	`I was unable to make it work right, and had to use the one from AIT`
`05:40.29`	`JeffM2501`	`ATI`
`05:40.31`	`[NP]Tangent`	`hm`
`05:40.31`	`[NP]Tangent`	`maybe`
`05:40.48`	`JeffM2501`	`it is just a posibly newer version of the same driver`
`05:40.51`	`JeffM2501`	`they get it from ATI`
`05:41.13`	`[NP]Tangent`	`cuz the xorg-driver-fglrx looks like it provides everything I need for my card`
`05:41.17`	`[NP]Tangent`	`and the ati driver might be messing with it`
`05:41.26`	`JeffM2501`	`fglrx needs the driver`
`05:41.52`	`[NP]Tangent`	`really?`
`05:42.01`	`[NP]Tangent`	`that makes sense`
`05:42.14`	`JeffM2501`	`it has to get those nice GL images to display ;)`
`05:44.33`	`[NP]Tangent`	`hm`
`05:44.58`	`[NP]Tangent`	`removing the xserver-xorg-driver-ati package didn't cause any dependency warnings`
`05:45.16`	`[NP]Tangent`	`are you sure that I need it installed if I have xorg-driver-fglrx installed?`
`05:45.31`	`JeffM2501`	`I had to have both`
`05:45.35`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm no linux expert tho`
`05:45.44`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm just tellin ya what I had to do to get my X1300 to work`
`05:45.51`	`JeffM2501`	`your mileage may vary`
`05:46.30`	`DTRemenak`	`acronymns save keystrokes; YMMV`
`05:47.23`	`JeffM2501`	`I've been writing fiction today. I'm used to spelling it all out :)`
`05:47.32`	`[NP]Tangent`	`well`
`05:47.32`	`[NP]Tangent`	`one second`
`05:48.12`	`JeffM2501`	`http://www.opencombat.net/files/images/jordan_toon.png <- the outfit the boots are suposed to go to`
`05:48.32`	`JeffM2501`	`tho I guess that'd work with a gun too, but evote a difrent feeling then I wanted`
`05:49.16`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`05:49.52`	`JeffM2501`	`then people'd read it and say "where are the schoolgirls!!!!"`
`05:50.34`	`[NP]Tangent`	`alright`
`05:50.39`	`[NP]Tangent`	`I just noticed something on the main bz screen`
`05:50.44`	`[NP]Tangent`	`it used to say MESA DRIVER`
`05:50.49`	`[NP]Tangent`	`now it says MOBILITY/RADEON 9000`
`05:50.58`	`[NP]Tangent`	`why might that have changed?`
`05:51.13`	`JeffM2501`	`your GL driver wasn't loaded`
`05:51.23`	`JeffM2501`	`or X dosn't know about it`
`05:51.32`	`JeffM2501`	`now it does`
`05:51.35`	`[NP]Tangent`	`it always worked when it said MESA DRIVER`
`05:51.36`	`JeffM2501`	`is it faster now?`
`05:51.41`	`JeffM2501`	`mesa == software`
`05:52.28`	`[NP]Tangent`	`it worked when it said MESA, but now it says MOBILITY/RADEON and it doesn't work right`
`05:52.59`	`JeffM2501`	`dono man`
`05:53.09`	`JeffM2501`	`maybe you were using dri before`
`05:54.44`	`[NP]Tangent`	`heh`
`05:54.49`	`[NP]Tangent`	`I'll search around on Tuesday`
`05:54.54`	`[NP]Tangent`	`cramped day tomorrow`
`05:55.02`	`[NP]Tangent`	`parents are telling me to not go to work this week`
`05:55.07`	`[NP]Tangent`	`bleh`
`05:55.11`	`[NP]Tangent`	`my job's more fun than being in this house, that's for sure`
`05:55.12`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`05:55.16`	`[NP]Tangent`	`ah well`
`05:55.16`	`[NP]Tangent`	`off to bed`
`05:55.16`	`[NP]Tangent`	`'night`
`05:55.21`	`DTRemenak`	`my parents always wanted me to go to work :)`
`05:55.43`	`*** join/#bzflag dcat_ (n=dcat@pdpc/supporter/active/dcat)`
`05:55.44`	`Skeeve`	`Good morning`
`05:55.51`	`DTRemenak`	`moin moin Skeeve`
`05:56.02`	`Skeeve`	`I didn't live at home when I started to work`
`05:56.07`	`Skeeve`	`no`
`05:56.15`	`Skeeve`	`didn't live with myx parent`
`05:56.17`	`Skeeve`	`+s`
`05:56.24`	`DTRemenak`	`-x`
`05:56.34`	`Skeeve`	`Right`
`05:56.39`	`DTRemenak`	`Left`
`05:56.43`	`Skeeve`	`Nice to see you remember "moin moin"`
`05:57.00`	`DTRemenak`	`how would I forget?`
`05:57.02`	`DTRemenak`	`:)`
`05:57.12`	`Skeeve`	`I don't know how ;-)`
`05:57.24`	`Skeeve`	`Sometimes people forget`
`05:57.55`	`Skeeve`	`.oO( for example to checke a bugfix ;-) )`
`05:58.14`	`DTRemenak`	`I, uh, need to go to bed.... :)`
`05:58.27`	`Skeeve`	`I thought so`
`05:58.35`	`Skeeve`	`It's late at night over there`
`05:58.37`	`DTRemenak`	`but seriously, I will get around to it`
`05:58.39`	`DTRemenak`	`sometime :)`
`05:58.54`	`Skeeve`	`best would be before the release of 2.2`
`05:59.20`	`DTRemenak`	`hm, less than three years!?`
`05:59.30`	`Skeeve`	`So hurry`
`05:59.47`	`Skeeve`	`That's a short timespan`
`05:59.48`	`DTRemenak`	`hehehe`
`06:00.07`	`Skeeve`	`3 years ago my son was "produced"`
`06:00.15`	`Skeeve`	`I know it's a short timespan`
`06:00.40`	`JeffM2501`	`I don't see 2.2 being done this year`
`06:00.43`	`JeffM2501`	`not at this rate`
`06:00.53`	`DTRemenak`	`at this rate, heh`
`06:01.00`	`DTRemenak`	`it'll never be done "at this rate"`
`06:01.13`	`JeffM2501`	`well it's never done`
`06:01.21`	`JeffM2501`	`it'll be good enough at some point`
`06:01.28`	`Skeeve`	`So maybe 2.2 is there when Niels is 3`
`06:01.40`	`DTRemenak`	`15 commits in the last month, JeffM2501`
`06:01.42`	`JeffM2501`	`noone knows`
`06:01.47`	`JeffM2501`	`ouch`
`06:01.49`	`DTRemenak`	`at that rate...`
`06:01.51`	`JeffM2501`	`ok so 2008`
`06:01.54`	`DTRemenak`	`years and years`
`06:02.15`	`Skeeve`	`Is there no plan what should be in 2.2?`
`06:02.31`	`JeffM2501`	`nope`
`06:02.32`	`DTRemenak`	`plan?!?!?!`
`06:02.35`	`JeffM2501`	`same as every other release`
`06:03.12`	`Skeeve`	`:-) I don't know any other release except the prehistoric one on IRIX`
`06:03.19`	`DTRemenak`	`eek, and no commits from me in the last month. I need to do something`
`06:03.30`	`JeffM2501`	`cus you been workin :)`
`06:03.35`	`Skeeve`	`You had no internet at home, DT`
`06:03.36`	`DTRemenak`	`I been movin too`
`06:03.38`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah`
`06:03.41`	`DTRemenak`	`that was the big thing`
`06:07.17`	`Skeeve`	`We also think about moving`
`06:08.10`	`Skeeve`	`New houses are build and they look good. Question is whether or not the bankers say they are affordable for us`
`06:08.56`	`DTRemenak`	`the real question is, is the one you are in now, insufficient?`
`06:09.07`	`Skeeve`	`It is`
`06:09.26`	`DTRemenak`	`then you should consider moving :D`
`06:09.43`	`Skeeve`	`Niels' room is too small in the long run and should he get a sister or brother or flat is too small`
`06:11.18`	`DTRemenak`	`so it is the long run in which it is inadequate...thus you should consider moving, in the long run :)`
`06:11.55`	`Skeeve`	`The houses won't be ready before mid of next year`
`06:12.57`	`JeffM2501`	`wow, firefox sucks at SVGs dosn't it?`
`06:13.14`	`Skeeve`	`a house like one of these http://www.neesen.de/HS/Eurosun.jpg`
`06:13.17`	`JeffM2501`	`or illustsrator can't export them corectly :)`
`06:13.24`	`Skeeve`	`Where can I see an SVG?`
`06:13.33`	`JeffM2501`	`http://www.opencombat.net/files/images/cover.svg`
`06:14.12`	`Skeeve`	`Hmmm... Is it a big file?`
`06:14.21`	`Skeeve`	`Ah! Here it is`
`06:14.23`	`JeffM2501`	`just 1.5 megs`
`06:14.40`	`JeffM2501`	`that house just needs a white piccket fence`
`06:14.50`	`DTRemenak`	`that is pretty bad`
`06:15.02`	`JeffM2501`	`it should look like http://www.opencombat.net/files/images/cover2.png`
`06:15.39`	`Skeeve`	`If you don't scale the image, why use svg?`
`06:15.59`	`JeffM2501`	`oh I was just trying to see what it woudl look like :)`
`06:16.17`	`JeffM2501`	`export had a bunch of fromats so I want "ohhh"`
`06:16.26`	`Skeeve`	`As soon as it's loaded, it looks okay to me`
`06:16.35`	`JeffM2501`	`the SVG opens up ok in illustrator`
`06:16.39`	`JeffM2501`	`maybe it's just my firefox`
`06:17.01`	`Skeeve`	`Ah no!`
`06:17.12`	`Skeeve`	`The background isn't wide enough in SVG`
`06:17.12`	`DTRemenak`	`try opening it in something else`
`06:17.31`	`DTRemenak`	`adobe's stuff is notoriously bad at non-native formats`
`06:17.34`	`Skeeve`	`And the font is wrong`
`06:18.25`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah, if I do it for download I'll turn it into a page`
`06:20.10`	`JeffM2501`	`writing fiction is hard`
`06:20.12`	`Skeeve`	`It must be Adobe`
`06:20.33`	`Skeeve`	`The Gimp creates a similar display to FireFox`
`06:20.38`	`DTRemenak`	`JeffM2501: for some people, it is natural. generally those people find writing code hard :)`
`06:20.55`	`JeffM2501`	`well mostly the spelling :)`
`06:21.00`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`06:21.11`	`DTRemenak`	`you need something with autocomplete ;)`
`06:21.15`	`DTRemenak`	`and namespacing`
`06:21.16`	`JeffM2501`	`and having to say who said each thing`
`06:21.45`	`JeffM2501`	`the programer brain said "just assign a key to each person, and prefix it with that!"`
`06:21.50`	`JeffM2501`	`but then that's called a "Screenplay"`
`06:21.51`	`DTRemenak`	`hehe`
`06:22.01`	`DTRemenak`	`like I said, some people find it natural :)`
`06:22.19`	`Skeeve`	`So what is open combat? A game I thought`
`06:22.21`	`JeffM2501`	`I still have to come up with an idea for the middle`
`06:22.35`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`06:22.37`	`JeffM2501`	`noone can be told what open combat is`
`06:22.51`	`DTRemenak`	`don't you usually, you know, start with the end of the middle? climax and all?`
`06:22.55`	`Skeeve`	`It's a secret!?`
`06:22.57`	`JeffM2501`	`right now it says "*stuff happens, lots of things are shot"`
`06:23.01`	`DTRemenak`	`hahaha`
`06:23.15`	`JeffM2501`	`well I have the build up`
`06:23.27`	`JeffM2501`	`and the climax part, I just need right before the climax part`
`06:23.35`	`JeffM2501`	`the part where you think, they are screwed`
`06:23.36`	`DTRemenak`	`well, what causes the climax?`
`06:23.46`	`JeffM2501`	`bullets`
`06:23.48`	`JeffM2501`	`lots of bullets`
`06:23.53`	`DTRemenak`	`right, stuff getting shot`
`06:24.04`	`DTRemenak`	`hey, most games end up with that as the middle :D`
`06:24.12`	`DTRemenak`	`classic doom-style`
`06:24.14`	`JeffM2501`	`well lots of bullets on one side, not so many other`
`06:25.44`	`Skeeve`	`classic doom-style... with nice looking actresses`
`06:25.52`	`DTRemenak`	`virtual actresses`
`06:26.14`	`Skeeve`	`classic doom-style... with nice looking, virtual actesses`
`06:26.17`	`DTRemenak`	`hehe`
`06:26.28`	`Skeeve`	`Jeff... Anything else?`
`06:26.31`	`JeffM2501`	`she's just a gunslinger type prototype`
`06:26.39`	`Skeeve`	`The bad guys are monsters?`
`06:26.39`	`JeffM2501`	`ohh I have lots of word docs on it`
`06:26.46`	`JeffM2501`	`no, bad guys are bad guys`
`06:26.55`	`JeffM2501`	`depends what side you are on`
`06:27.02`	`JeffM2501`	`Alliance or CTR`
`06:27.15`	`Skeeve`	`What a pitty... I saw a guy on "apfeltalk" wh draws really good monsters`
`06:28.22`	`Skeeve`	`http://www.apfeltalk.de/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9265&d=1158183580`
`06:28.24`	`DTRemenak`	`you could have one side turn into monsters. genetic experiments, cybernetic implants... :)`
`06:28.42`	`DTRemenak`	`but that would probably make it too easy to choose a side`
`06:28.47`	`Skeeve`	`http://www.apfeltalk.de/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9267&d=1158185261`
`06:29.00`	`JeffM2501`	`naw, the CTR uses drugs to turn it's grunt force into expendable shock troops`
`06:29.10`	`JeffM2501`	`the Aliance does more with automotons`
`06:29.37`	`Skeeve`	`There was an episode of Twilight Zone(?) or Outer Limits(?) where each side saw the other as Alien Monssters because of a drug they had to take`
`06:30.04`	`JeffM2501`	`no, I'm ok with shoting people`
`06:30.16`	`JeffM2501`	`in the PVP missions you'll shoot people`
`06:30.23`	`JeffM2501`	`so why candy coat it`
`06:30.28`	`Skeeve`	`PVP?`
`06:30.34`	`JeffM2501`	`Player Vs Player`
`06:30.38`	`Skeeve`	`TMA`
`06:30.50`	`Skeeve`	`Ah! Okay`
`06:32.52`	`Skeeve`	`BTW: Jeff... I accidently published my last patch twice. Can you remove the second one... I'll get the number...`
`06:33.14`	`Skeeve`	`1564602`
`06:33.34`	`Skeeve`	`And 1551650 can be closed`
`06:36.27`	`JeffM2501`	`done`
`06:40.37`	`Skeeve`	`thanks`
`06:41.59`	`Skeeve`	`I like this patch 1546262 ;-)`
`06:42.07`	`Skeeve`	`Or better it's description`
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`12:34.48`	`Skeeve`	`I smell spam in the forum`
`12:37.46`	`Skeeve`	`brlcad won! ;-)`
`12:38.26`	`brlcad`	`what, what're we talking about? :)`
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`12:43.49`	`menotume`	`Skeeve is our official spam-sniffer :)`
`12:44.14`	`ts`	`I don't think so :p`
`12:44.21`	`ts`	`BTW: meno fix the flag ;)`
`12:44.28`	`Skeeve`	`No... Not official...`
`12:44.31`	`menotume`	`fix your eyes`
`12:44.47`	`menotume`	`fix your jpg-renderer :)`
`12:46.15`	`ts`	`It's on all renderers I have :p`
`12:47.39`	`Skeeve`	`May I test it too?`
`12:48.56`	`menotume`	`yes Skeeve, tell me what is wrong with the flag image on this page: http://gu.bzleague.com/index.php?link=playerinfo&id=496`
`12:49.10`	`menotume`	`(it's JPG)`
`12:49.28`	`Skeeve`	`The German flag? It looks okay here`
`12:49.30`	`ts`	`You have to look closely but it is there`
`12:49.36`	`Skeeve`	`Yes`
`12:49.39`	`ts`	`See the horizontal stripe?`
`12:49.42`	`Skeeve`	`There is something`
`12:50.50`	`Skeeve`	`A horizontal and a lighter red vertical stripe in the red part`
`12:51.00`	`menotume`	`yes, that is due to JPG cmopression`
`12:51.17`	`Skeeve`	`For this kind of image better use GIF`
`12:51.40`	`Manu`	`or compressing jpg with better quality`
`12:51.48`	`ts`	`Is it gone here? http://p54b00605.dip0.t-ipconnect.de/~ts/c-germ.jpg`
`12:52.08`	`Skeeve`	`It's 11 colors and this can be compressed with GIF very good`
`12:52.13`	`menotume`	`no, not gone, but better`
`12:52.30`	`Manu`	`it's ok ts :) (at last for me)`
`12:52.31`	`menotume`	`yes, BUT, there are many flags, and all are done the same`
`12:53.29`	`Skeeve`	`I think MOST flags of the world can best be represented by GIF`
`12:53.39`	`menotume`	`probably`
`12:53.50`	`Manu`	`or png`
`12:54.11`	`Skeeve`	`I'd change it manuelly (SCNR) because I'm german and it's not okay for me ;-)`
`12:54.21`	`Skeeve`	`-e+a`
`12:54.25`	`Manu`	`Skeeve: :(`
`12:54.37`	`Skeeve`	`It's too tempting, Manu`
`12:54.48`	`ts`	`As long there is no transparency involved even Internet Destroyer can display PNGs :p`
`12:54.48`	`menotume`	`ok, look :)`
`12:54.53`	`menotume`	`there are MANY flags`
`12:55.19`	`menotume`	`i have the original 'master' images and a script to convert them all to 2 different sizes in one dir`
`12:55.21`	`Manu`	`Seek if you look a true german flag so close.. you well se more colours in the flag than three ;)`
`12:55.29`	`menotume`	`so, they will all be done the same`
`12:55.53`	`Manu`	`Skeeve ^----`
`12:56.08`	`Skeeve`	`Can you give me the master? I'll try to come up with something different`
`12:56.09`	`Manu`	`autocompletion failed :/`
`12:56.12`	`ts`	`menotume: Do all flags have the same dimension?`
`12:56.21`	`menotume`	`i never thought that someone would be so upset by a little 'jpging' :P`
`12:56.34`	`menotume`	`all orignals are not the same dimension`
`12:56.34`	`Skeeve`	`We germans are special ;-)`
`12:56.48`	`Manu`	`heh`
`12:56.56`	`menotume`	`Skeeve: i could easily do it`
`12:57.01`	`menotume`	`that's not the point :)`
`12:57.07`	`Skeeve`	`My son wants my attention`
`12:57.15`	`Skeeve`	`Never let a 2 year old wait...`
`12:57.26`	`ts`	`I guess it's only me nitpicking`
`12:57.59`	`Manu`	`arg... spanish flag looks horribly too :( http://gu.bzleague.com/index.php?link=playerinfo&id=881`
`12:58.10`	`Manu`	`even worse than german one`
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`12:58.35`	`ts`	`yes`
`12:59.00`	`Manu`	`the compression ratio is too high`
`12:59.11`	`Mr_Molez`	`Skeeve: ping :P`
`12:59.14`	`ts`	`JPEG was created for photographic purposes`
`12:59.27`	`Manu`	`yes, I know`
`13:00.07`	`ts`	`Flags are rather simple graphics that want lossless encoding`
`13:01.35`	`ts`	`The french one has stripes in its blue`
`13:03.12`	`Manu`	`all the fags are afected by the artifacts`
`13:04.01`	`Manu`	`affected*`
`13:07.19`	`Skeeve`	`Mr_M pong... But no time... sorry...`
`13:13.01`	`Mr_Molez`	`oh ok :( nevermind :P`
`13:20.09`	`Skeeve`	`You may send mail`
`13:20.24`	`Skeeve`	`I have to look after my son`
`13:20.47`	`Mr_Molez`	`hehe its ok nothing important :P`
`13:21.27`	`Mr_Molez`	`i can probably figure it out myself anyway`
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`14:36.13`	`trac_`	`Does anybody know a fix for the intel-grafiphics-chip + bzflag bug?`
`14:36.59`	`trac_`	`It only renders things in a small rectangle like 640x480 with a resolution of 1024x768 :)`
`14:37.19`	`RatOmeter`	`Hmmm, that's a new one to me`
`14:37.52`	`trac_`	`a friend of mine does have this grafiphics card so i did some research and found another guy reporting the same in the forum`
`14:38.20`	`RatOmeter`	`what gfx chipset and what OS?`
`14:38.30`	`trac_`	`it seems like bzflag is the only game that is affected by these. cause my friend said it other games work all right.`
`14:38.48`	`trac_`	`wait a second i get the chip name`
`14:39.24`	`trac_`	`intel gma 900 if i remember correct`
`14:39.36`	`trac_`	`os is linux 2.6.17`
`14:39.53`	`trac_`	`i have a screenshot`
`14:45.52`	`RatOmeter`	`don't know, man. Guess maybe a driver version check may be a good start`
`14:46.03`	`RatOmeter`	`http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df-external/filter_results.aspx?strTypes=all&ProductID=1764&OSFullName=Linux*&lang=eng&strOSs=39&submit=Go%21`
`14:46.06`	`trac_`	`k thx :)`
`14:46.22`	`RatOmeter`	`not sure if that link is for the same chipset`
`14:48.44`	`trac_`	`so you thing it is not a problem with bzflag?`
`14:48.55`	`trac_`	`i mean other games work all right. (like tuxracer and co.)`
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`15:09.06`	`blast007`	`trac_: it's probably drivers that is the problem, because my Intel 855 works "fine" in Windows XP`
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`16:04.26`	`ibunny`	`hi ppl`
`16:06.09`	`blast007`	`hello`
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`16:06.58`	`ibunny`	`hey b`
`16:19.33`	`CBG`	`hey ibunny :P`
`16:23.33`	`ibunny`	`cbg cbg <3<3`
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`16:27.19`	`blast007`	`:)`
`16:33.08`	`ibunny`	`(:`
`16:33.19`	`CBG`	`=}`
`16:33.31`	`Skeeve`	`Is ibunny kissing everyone...? except me of course...`
`16:33.44`	`ibunny`	`uhm kissing?`
`16:34.25`	`Skeeve`	`Yesterday I guess...`
`16:34.37`	`Skeeve`	`Ahh... Mistake <3 isn't kissing!`
`16:34.38`	`Skeeve`	`Sorry`
`16:35.07`	`ibunny`	`there we go.`
`16:35.07`	`CBG`	`~smooch Skeeve`
`16:35.17`	`ibot`	`ACTION forces CBG to give Skeeve a big smooch`
`16:35.17`	`CBG`	`hmm, ibot ?`
`16:35.17`	`JeffM2501`	`cbg will love you long time`
`16:35.21`	`Skeeve`	`~translate en de smooch`
`16:35.23`	`CBG`	`There we go. :)`
`16:35.25`	`ibunny`	`cbg is like luvluv 4ever`
`16:35.33`	`CBG`	`smooch = big wet kiss`
`16:35.39`	`Skeeve`	`Uahhh!`
`16:35.43`	`ibunny`	`u ask for it.`
`16:35.44`	`Skeeve`	`Pfui Deifi!`
`16:35.55`	`CBG`	`:( rejected. again.`
`16:36.02`	`Skeeve`	`No! I wasn't! Hey! I'm married!`
`16:36.06`	`Skeeve`	`I have a KID!`
`16:36.27`	`CBG`	`... right.`
`16:36.32`	`CBG`	`That's what they all say :(`
`16:36.33`	`Skeeve`	`You don't want to give a big wet kiss to a 41 year old daddy, CBG, do you?`
`16:37.46`	`CBG`	`~54.62+23.82`
`16:37.48`	`ibot`	`78.44`
`16:38.16`	`ibunny`	`well cbg i DO have a kid`
`16:38.24`	`JeffM2501`	`everyone has there own thing that turns there own crank`
`16:38.48`	`Skeeve`	`~translate en de crank`
`16:38.50`	`CBG`	`ibunny: yes, cutie fabbbbiiiii :)`
`16:38.56`	`ibunny`	`there you go.`
`16:39.08`	`Skeeve`	`How old is you kid, ibunny?`
`16:39.17`	`CBG`	`is he 4 now..?`
`16:39.19`	`ibunny`	`2y and 7m`
`16:39.24`	`CBG`	`ahh, pff`
`16:39.28`	`ibunny`	`hehe`
`16:39.31`	`Skeeve`	`Mine is 2y and 2m`
`16:39.36`	`ibunny`	`he just makes puzzles for 4y`
`16:39.42`	`ibunny`	`nice.`
`16:39.45`	`CBG`	`I'm no good with kids :P`
`16:39.59`	`ibunny`	`well i named a monkey cbg cbg`
`16:40.07`	`Skeeve`	`;-) Wait 5 month. Niels just finished a 3+ Puzzle... 15 parts`
`16:40.14`	`ibunny`	`a monkey toy of fabi.`
`16:40.31`	`ibunny`	`mine does 60 pieces`
`16:40.36`	`ibunny`	`+5`
`16:40.42`	`CBG`	`ibunny: wow, really?`
`16:40.43`	`ibunny`	`but im sure urs talks`
`16:40.49`	`Skeeve`	`;-) As I said... Wait 5 months ;-)`
`16:40.54`	`CBG`	`fabi has a CBG monkey? :o`
`16:40.59`	`Skeeve`	`Niels is younger than fabi (fabian?)`
`16:41.06`	`ibunny`	`mine doesnt talk much... to many languages...`
`16:41.11`	`ibunny`	`fabian`
`16:41.14`	`ibunny`	`aka fabi`
`16:41.23`	`Skeeve`	`I thought so`
`16:45.29`	`Skeeve`	`Hey! ibunny! I just looked Fabian and Niels up in the list of most favoured names in Germany 2004.`
`16:45.40`	`Skeeve`	`Fabian is #37 and Niels #39`
`16:47.19`	`Skeeve`	`Mine was #6 when I was born. We had 3 Boys with that name in my class :-(`
`16:49.15`	`JeffM2501`	`Germany must realy like Robert Asprin then.`
`16:49.37`	`Skeeve`	`ARGH!`
`16:50.01`	`ibunny`	`...`
`16:50.17`	`Skeeve`	`Wrong conclusion Jeff`
`16:50.27`	`JeffM2501`	`twas a jest`
`16:50.31`	`Skeeve`	`You know my age... Now you can look up my real name`
`16:50.45`	`JeffM2501`	`I have no need or desire too`
`16:51.02`	`Skeeve`	`OTOH: DTRemenak already put my ful name into BZ Flag.`
`16:51.19`	`JeffM2501`	`that is what we do for contributors`
`16:55.52`	`ibunny`	`unhealthy food.`
`16:58.37`	`ts`	`maybe unhealthy but I love those, too :p`
`16:59.13`	`ibunny`	`bad bad bad`
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`17:18.18`	`Skeeve`	`But I don't smoke, ibunny ;-)`
`17:18.50`	`Skeeve`	`Niels just came into the kitchen yelling "Wir sind die Roboter" (We are the robots" by Kraftwerk) ;-)`
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`20:07.45`	`L4m3r`	`quck question, eh... where is the default data directory for BZ? (I used the Debian package)`
`20:08.47`	`L4m3r`	`nevermind, found it 8)`
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`20:41.30`	`L4m3r`	`~bz2_0cvs`
`20:41.36`	`L4m3r`	`~bz20cvs`
`20:41.37`	`ibot`	`cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvsroot/bzflag co -P -r v2_0branch bzflag`
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`21:08.07`	`*** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/GettingHelp \|\| paste to http://bzflag.pastebin.ca \|\| CVS HEAD is 2.1 UNSTABLE, use for new commits \|\| Condolences to lilo's friends, family, the PDPC, and the Freenode network at large for his passing. Rest in peace, lilo, during your final /part.`
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`21:42.11`	`JeffM2501`	`is "dodgeable" a word?`
`21:43.06`	`tannerld`	`I would say so.`
`21:43.08`	`Gnurdux`	`yes`
`21:43.15`	`CBG`	`~spell dodgeable`
`21:43.30`	`JeffM2501`	`hmm word dosn't like it`
`21:43.32`	`Mr_Molez`	`i thought so`
`21:43.32`	`CBG`	`I guess it is dodge-able :\|`
`21:43.43`	`CBG`	`Bleh, stupid language anyway.`
`21:43.59`	`CBG`	`Doesn't help with you guys over the pond changing every second word...`
`21:45.02`	`JeffM2501`	`or maybe just word sucks :)`
`21:45.03`	`Mr_Molez`	`over the pond heh, you sound so old :P`
`21:45.25`	`CBG`	`The word you're looking for is "mature", Mr_Molez.`
`21:47.09`	`JeffM2501`	`oh I'm sure i've used a number of incorrect english words in this thing`
`21:49.00`	`Mr_Molez`	`do nice levels change the how cpu intensive processes run ?`
`21:49.23`	`CBG`	`How nice?`
`21:49.55`	`Mr_Molez`	`nice nice`
`21:49.57`	`JeffM2501`	`if you make the more nice, they give up more time to other processes, and will then run slower`
`21:50.15`	`JeffM2501`	`but they allow more stuff to be done at once.`
`21:50.39`	`Mr_Molez`	`so say a nice level of 20 would make a process use alot less cpu power than it usually would ?`
`21:50.52`	`JeffM2501`	`depends what the other processes want`
`21:51.03`	`Mr_Molez`	`oh`
`21:51.07`	`JeffM2501`	`if nothing else is running, aka, all idle, that process will take the rest`
`21:51.26`	`Mr_Molez`	`i guess nice is not what i want`
`21:51.27`	`JeffM2501`	`it dosn't throtle it down, it just changes who gets priority for free cycles`
`21:51.44`	`JeffM2501`	`sounds like you want the process to sleep every so often`
`21:51.48`	`Mr_Molez`	`is there anything that would force a process to take less cpu power ?`
`21:51.54`	`CBG`	`You want "pretty", Mr_Molez !`
`21:52.11`	`JeffM2501`	`in general the app has to be writen to be throtlable (sp)`
`21:52.27`	`Mr_Molez`	`oh :(`
`21:52.28`	`JeffM2501`	`but there may be a wiered 'nix thing I'm not aware of`
`21:52.38`	`Mr_Molez`	`ill do some more google searching`
`21:52.46`	`CBG`	`Google knows all!`
`21:52.48`	`JeffM2501`	`like with BZ, we had to code in a longer sleep for the frame rate limiter`
`21:52.57`	`JeffM2501`	`to make it use less CPU`
`21:53.15`	`Mr_Molez`	`ah`
`21:53.28`	`JeffM2501`	`you have source for the process?`
`21:53.41`	`CBG`	`JeffM2501: you saw the discussion on "cheat making another tank drop it's flag", right? Is that theoretically possible?`
`21:53.54`	`JeffM2501`	`CBG, no it's not`
`21:53.55`	`Mr_Molez`	`the process im thinking of is vlc... i don't really like the idea of going into that source :P`
`21:54.03`	`JeffM2501`	`Mr_Molez, ok`
`21:54.04`	`Chestal`	`Debian has cpulimit package whch can throttle running processes`
`21:54.04`	`CBG`	`Ok. :)`
`21:54.06`	`Mr_Molez`	`so yes, do have source`
`21:54.28`	`Mr_Molez`	`Chestal: cool, that would be perfect im running debian, do you know the name`
`21:54.50`	`JeffM2501`	`CBG, a client can't formulate a packet wtih a difrent user ID, because userIDs are pulled form the conection, and a client can't send a direct message to another client`
`21:55.09`	`JeffM2501`	`there may be some wiered tricky spoof ways, but it you can do that, then droping a flag is childs play ;)`
`21:55.22`	`Chestal`	`Mr_Molez: well yes, "cpulimit"`
`21:55.31`	`CBG`	`True, why not just tell it "I shot you."! heh.`
`21:55.42`	`Mr_Molez`	`Chestal: oh lol thanks ;)`
`21:55.42`	`JeffM2501`	`CBG, well that we can do :)`
`21:55.51`	`JeffM2501`	`spawn a shot inside the other tank`
`21:55.57`	`CBG`	`Ouch.`
`21:56.02`	`JeffM2501`	`but that is because the server dosn't check`
`21:56.15`	`JeffM2501`	`and relays shot packets`
`21:56.20`	`JeffM2501`	`the flag drop isn't a relay`
`21:56.34`	`CBG`	`i see`
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