| 00:03.26 | *** join/#bzflag shorty114 (n=shorty11@unaffiliated/shorty114) |
| 00:04.31 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=Constitu@mmds-216-19-24-101.mm.az.commspeed.net) |
| 00:17.06 | Mr_Molez | ~bzfquery openleague.org:5992 |
| 00:17.21 | Mr_Molez | hmmm |
| 00:17.34 | CBG | owned. |
| 00:17.48 | Mr_Molez | why doesn't it show on the 0041 server list ? |
| 00:18.02 | CBG | you got -public ? |
| 00:19.29 | Mr_Molez | yup :( |
| 00:22.37 | L4m3r | 0041? is that what 2.1 is at now? |
| 00:22.51 | Mr_Molez | think so yeh |
| 00:24.05 | brad | it is on the list Mr_Molez |
| 00:24.43 | brad | there are 2 0040 servers, 2 0041 servers |
| 00:25.13 | Mr_Molez | doesn't show in a 2.1 client |
| 00:25.28 | Mr_Molez | btw /data/skins/green/flag is missing from the source |
| 00:25.34 | JeffM2501 | yeah L4m3r I updated to day again |
| 00:25.39 | JeffM2501 | it is? |
| 00:25.43 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: yup |
| 00:25.48 | JeffM2501 | suxorz |
| 00:26.21 | JeffM2501 | flag? |
| 00:26.28 | JeffM2501 | there is only one flag texture |
| 00:27.03 | Mr_Molez | oh the new quit menu is nice |
| 00:27.06 | JeffM2501 | none of the other colors have them |
| 00:27.25 | Mr_Molez | well its looking for it in /data/skins/green/flag |
| 00:27.31 | JeffM2501 | hmm |
| 00:27.34 | Mr_Molez | let me see what happens when i change to red |
| 00:27.51 | JeffM2501 | where do you see the message that says it's looking for it |
| 00:28.43 | JeffM2501 | wow lookit that |
| 00:29.05 | JeffM2501 | there is code that looks for the team flag colors |
| 00:29.09 | JeffM2501 | we never made any tho |
| 00:29.15 | brad | Mr_Molez: http://my.bzflag.org/db/?action=LIST&version=BZFS0041 |
| 00:29.21 | Mr_Molez | it says cannot load texture /skins/green/flag I know exactly where that is |
| 00:29.34 | JeffM2501 | yeah I see it now |
| 00:29.36 | JeffM2501 | I'll make them |
| 00:29.40 | Mr_Molez | cool |
| 00:30.11 | Mr_Molez | brad: yeh but still in the server list of the client, it does not show |
| 00:30.24 | JeffM2501 | your alpha testing :) |
| 00:30.25 | brad | client sucks then |
| 00:30.42 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: heh |
| 00:30.49 | JeffM2501 | so it's not listing 41 games? |
| 00:30.51 | JeffM2501 | I feared that |
| 00:30.57 | brad | 41? |
| 00:31.00 | JeffM2501 | 0041 |
| 00:31.04 | Gnurdux | proto version |
| 00:31.04 | brad | oh heh |
| 00:31.09 | brad | yeah |
| 00:31.10 | JeffM2501 | is it? |
| 00:31.13 | JeffM2501 | or is it not? |
| 00:31.17 | Mr_Molez | its not |
| 00:31.19 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 00:31.24 | JeffM2501 | have to do a list server change then |
| 00:31.31 | JeffM2501 | guess it stores the exaxt length |
| 00:31.53 | JeffM2501 | so hey DTRemenak what you up to now ;) |
| 00:32.13 | JeffM2501 | yup trepan did per team flag textures |
| 00:32.38 | DTRemenak | heh, you aren't getting ME to fix the list server :P |
| 00:32.43 | JeffM2501 | damn |
| 00:32.44 | Mr_Molez | k well ill go dig up some more bugs for you ;) |
| 00:33.41 | mmarshall | I assume that there is no attempt to execute network messages in the same order that they were sent, correct? |
| 00:34.53 | mmarshall | (I.E. if the server sends a drop flag msg then a grab flag msg, the client might first grab then drop?) |
| 00:35.04 | JeffM2501 | some of the messages are sent TCP |
| 00:35.08 | JeffM2501 | those will arrive in order |
| 00:35.40 | JeffM2501 | the UDP ones, not so much |
| 00:36.06 | mmarshall | Which ones are TCP and which UDP? |
| 00:36.15 | mmarshall | Or is that arbitrary? |
| 00:36.18 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 00:36.21 | JeffM2501 | only 8 are UDP |
| 00:36.25 | JeffM2501 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:36.25 | JeffM2501 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:36.25 | JeffM2501 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:36.25 | JeffM2501 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:36.25 | JeffM2501 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:36.26 | JeffM2501 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:36.28 | JeffM2501 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:36.30 | JeffM2501 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:36.50 | JeffM2501 | basicly the ones that can be droped |
| 00:37.10 | JeffM2501 | so the flag state stuff is all TCP cus the state requires that it make it |
| 00:37.17 | mmarshall | Ok, those ones make sense to have happen as soon as possible. |
| 00:37.24 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 00:37.47 | *** join/#bzflag tokimi (n=toki@D-128-95-133-113.dhcp4.washington.edu) |
| 00:38.23 | mmarshall | Well, back to the old drawing board then. :-/ |
| 00:38.32 | JeffM2501 | hmm now what would be a good symbol for each of the team colors? |
| 00:38.51 | I_Died_Once | spade, diamonds, clubs, and hearts |
| 00:39.03 | JeffM2501 | hmmm good idea |
| 00:39.22 | JeffM2501 | blue diamonds, red hearts, green spades, and purpile clubs? |
| 00:39.47 | I_Died_Once | They're magically delicious |
| 00:40.12 | PuMpErNiCkLe | purple clubs... there are so many ways that could go wrong. |
| 00:40.22 | I_Died_Once | purple hearts |
| 00:40.30 | JeffM2501 | green clubs and purple spades? |
| 00:40.37 | JeffM2501 | red has to be the heart ;) |
| 00:41.25 | I_Died_Once | ♣/♥/♦/♠ |
| 00:42.00 | JeffM2501 | now I just need to find a flag texture sans logo |
| 00:43.48 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, is there any way to setup vsync so that always the last completed frame is put on the screen at each sync? |
| 00:44.07 | JeffM2501 | that's what vsync DOES |
| 00:45.20 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, the wikipedia article said that usually the framerate is limited to divisors of the refresh rate? |
| 00:49.35 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 00:50.45 | Gnurdux | any easy way to make it so that frames are rendered normally (though limited to sync time) but if its lower than sync the last completed frame is drawn |
| 00:51.10 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 00:51.19 | JeffM2501 | why render frames that will never be show |
| 00:51.20 | JeffM2501 | ? |
| 00:54.21 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, well suppose card is going at 30fps, and monitor is 40 |
| 00:54.47 | Gnurdux | then you want 3 frames drawn every 4 refreshes, rather than 2 |
| 00:55.26 | JeffM2501 | yeah that's what vsync did |
| 00:56.55 | JeffM2501 | it'll draw the same frame 2x if it has to |
| 00:56.56 | Gnurdux | did? |
| 00:56.59 | JeffM2501 | does |
| 00:57.01 | JeffM2501 | on phone |
| 00:57.01 | Gnurdux | k |
| 00:57.26 | Gnurdux | that wouldnt draw the same frame once, it would go like 1 1 2 3 |
| 00:57.34 | Gnurdux | whoops, yes it woudl :p |
| 00:57.40 | JeffM2501 | yeah it drew 1 2x :) |
| 00:57.43 | JeffM2501 | think ;) |
| 00:57.52 | *** join/#bzflag QBeep (n=QB@adsl-33-221-69.lft.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:01.15 | A_Meteorite | someone forgot to take the last comma out of global.h, enum GameOptions, line 94 |
| 01:01.17 | A_Meteorite | ;) |
| 01:01.35 | A_Meteorite | that's in head |
| 01:01.37 | A_Meteorite | anyways, time to eat |
| 01:01.53 | A_Meteorite | mom always calls me too early to eat... *sighs* |
| 01:06.40 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=JBdiGriz@adsl-63-204-117-43.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net) |
| 01:06.40 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 01:11.47 | bryjen | warning: `class BZDBLocalManager' only defines a private destructor and has no friends |
| 01:11.54 | bryjen | hehe. not complaining, just amused |
| 01:12.18 | Gnurdux | aww, poor class, no friends |
| 01:13.15 | Gnurdux | anyone on here know about internet security issues: i have a question about cookies for webleague |
| 01:14.14 | A_Meteorite | back |
| 01:14.31 | JeffM2501 | man can my dad talk |
| 01:14.52 | A_Meteorite | lol |
| 01:15.34 | A_Meteorite | JeffM2501: you still on the phone? |
| 01:15.50 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 01:15.52 | A_Meteorite | ah |
| 01:16.01 | A_Meteorite | maybe you can fix that tiny type? :P |
| 01:16.08 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 01:16.15 | A_Meteorite | someone forgot to take the last comma out of global.h, enum GameOptions, line 94 ;) |
| 01:16.23 | A_Meteorite | it errors out if you don't |
| 01:16.27 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, do you know how passwords in cookies should be stored? |
| 01:16.37 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, huh? |
| 01:16.55 | Gnurdux | if i'm storing a cookie with a password in it, should i just base64 encode it? |
| 01:17.11 | JeffM2501 | in what context |
| 01:17.15 | JeffM2501 | I can't read your mind man |
| 01:17.18 | Gnurdux | the code we have now md5s it, but thats bad cause if someone knows my md5 they can login as me |
| 01:17.41 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, ok we have code that adds cookies to webleague, right now it stores cookie passes as md5s |
| 01:17.50 | Gnurdux | thus if you know the md5 of my pass you can login as me |
| 01:18.00 | Gnurdux | which would generally be considered bad |
| 01:18.00 | JeffM2501 | sure cookies are not seccure |
| 01:18.19 | JeffM2501 | no mater what you do do the cookie it becomes the password |
| 01:18.24 | Gnurdux | yea |
| 01:18.30 | JeffM2501 | so why even worry about that |
| 01:18.41 | Gnurdux | but the difference is other people might have my md5 password, if i use the same password other places |
| 01:18.42 | JeffM2501 | if somone is security minded, they don't keep cookies |
| 01:18.59 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, the difference here is that if ANYONE has my md5, they can make a fake cookie and login as me |
| 01:19.02 | JeffM2501 | so your cooding for somethig that is a 1 in a million chance |
| 01:19.04 | DTRemenak | how about this: don't store passwords. |
| 01:19.07 | Gnurdux | lol' |
| 01:19.10 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 01:19.18 | JeffM2501 | if your wooried about it don't store them |
| 01:19.21 | DTRemenak | seriously, storing passwords on a user's machine is asking to be compromised |
| 01:19.27 | Gnurdux | heh bzflag does it |
| 01:19.30 | JeffM2501 | I'm sure many of the other php security minded channels would be able to help you. |
| 01:19.45 | JeffM2501 | bzflag is not intended as a secure system |
| 01:19.50 | DTRemenak | you can turn it off, too |
| 01:19.53 | JeffM2501 | it's your own dumb falut for saying "save it" |
| 01:20.41 | DTRemenak | and hell, we store it in plaintext :) |
| 01:21.08 | DTRemenak | and we send it to the server in plaintext too |
| 01:21.12 | A_Meteorite | DTRemenak: that's the worst part :D |
| 01:21.16 | *** join/#bzflag mmarshall_ (n=mmarshal@213-47-112.adsl.terra.cl) |
| 01:21.18 | DTRemenak | there's nothing secure about it |
| 01:21.27 | A_Meteorite | if there was ssl, you could at least *send* it securely |
| 01:21.35 | A_Meteorite | but that doesn't help considering it's plain-text on your computer |
| 01:22.22 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/playing.cxx: possible name conflict |
| 01:22.36 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10bzflag/include/global.h: silly gcc based compilers. |
| 01:22.51 | A_Meteorite | yay :P |
| 01:23.56 | A_Meteorite | eek |
| 01:25.34 | JeffM2501 | aww. the red team is going to be the cutest team EVAR! |
| 01:26.02 | *** join/#bzflag inchworm (n=PrinceCh@azerial.fastwave.biz) |
| 01:26.06 | inchworm | ~Thumper_ |
| 01:26.08 | A_Meteorite | icons for each? |
| 01:26.18 | JeffM2501 | flags |
| 01:26.21 | A_Meteorite | ah |
| 01:32.31 | JeffM2501 | -cb does a random CTF world right? |
| 01:35.12 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10bzflag/data/skins/ (blue/flag.png green/flag.png purple/flag.png red/flag.png): add textures for team flags. |
| 01:38.31 | JeffM2501 | hey DTRemenak what is the dif between "serverList" and "realServerList", if you know |
| 01:38.54 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: serverList is potentially a subset of realServerList |
| 01:38.58 | DTRemenak | byproduct of filtering |
| 01:39.02 | JeffM2501 | ahh ok |
| 01:39.08 | JeffM2501 | know where they get filled in? |
| 01:39.16 | JeffM2501 | like where the HTML is parsed? |
| 01:39.22 | DTRemenak | there's no html |
| 01:39.36 | JeffM2501 | ok where the responce from the web is parsed |
| 01:39.41 | JeffM2501 | true it has no markup |
| 01:40.01 | DTRemenak | game\ServerList.cxx probably |
| 01:40.45 | JeffM2501 | I'm lookin at the results from the list server in a browser, it's got the new chars in the pack |
| 01:41.13 | JeffM2501 | bryjens 2.1 server is 4 characters longer then his 2.0 |
| 01:41.26 | JeffM2501 | so it must be in the parse I think |
| 01:42.03 | DTRemenak | that stuff is parsed by PingPacket.cxx |
| 01:42.08 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@2002:45a6:86ae:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 01:42.08 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 01:42.15 | JeffM2501 | hmm I updated that |
| 01:42.17 | DTRemenak | err, PingPacket in Ping.cxx |
| 01:42.27 | JeffM2501 | oooooo, tho it now needs to potentaly parse both |
| 01:42.36 | bryjen | one that's less interruptable :/ |
| 01:42.37 | *** join/#bzflag Tanner_S (n=chatzill@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:43.49 | JeffM2501 | unpackHex I'm guessing |
| 01:44.58 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 01:45.17 | JeffM2501 | hmm it does check the version before it unpacks, so it sould be fine with the longer string |
| 01:45.24 | JeffM2501 | O |
| 01:45.39 | JeffM2501 | I'll test when I get home and can actualy SEE the list server in game :) |
| 01:48.29 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 01:48.29 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak] by ChanServ |
| 01:50.32 | Tanner | jeff, you got a moment or are you busy? |
| 01:50.33 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r, check what SDL you have installed, there are a couple that come with ubuntu, each uses a difrent sound engine. |
| 01:50.39 | JeffM2501 | Tanner, sure |
| 01:51.22 | Tanner | how do I use the -hide command in bzadmin? |
| 01:51.46 | JeffM2501 | I don't know a thing about bzadmin ;) |
| 01:52.00 | Tanner | Heh. |
| 01:52.06 | Tanner | Well, thanks for answering. :) |
| 01:52.19 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (n=QB@adsl-33-221-69.lft.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:52.24 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 01:52.46 | JeffM2501 | SportChick uses it a lot an may know |
| 01:52.58 | Tanner | Ok, thanks. |
| 01:55.46 | Tanner | SportChick, you here? |
| 01:55.54 | JeffM2501 | aha, it compares it to PingPacketHexPackedSize, that's my problem |
| 02:00.51 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10bzflag/include/Ping.h: update the hex pack size from the list server so the client dosn't think that the game servers are bogus. |
| 02:14.05 | spldart_watchBab | ok.. |
| 02:15.24 | spldart | Now.. I noticed the list server issue.. is it bzfs side or list server side? Basically do I have to rebuild bzfs after the fix? |
| 02:15.39 | brad | It's client side ;) |
| 02:15.49 | brad | ..from what I heard |
| 02:15.59 | brad | your server is on the server list |
| 02:16.04 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@2002:45a6:86ae:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 02:16.04 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 02:16.05 | brad | but you can't see it in the client |
| 02:16.22 | spldart | bzadmin doesn't show the server either |
| 02:16.36 | *** join/#bzflag shorty114 (n=shorty11@unaffiliated/shorty114) |
| 02:16.43 | brad | but this does.. |
| 02:16.44 | brad | http://my.bzflag.org/db/?action=LIST&version=BZFS0041 |
| 02:16.51 | brad | pldart.opencombat.net:5155 BZFS0041 |
| 02:16.53 | brad | spldart.opencombat.net:5155 BZFS0041 |
| 02:16.56 | Tanner | bzadmin shows the server? connects? :\ |
| 02:17.06 | brad | Tanner: /list |
| 02:17.16 | brad | I presume that's what he did. |
| 02:17.22 | spldart | bzadmin can connect but /list doesn't show any |
| 02:17.44 | spldart | But I did notice I was on .org/db list |
| 02:17.45 | brad | they are both screwed up with the same bug |
| 02:17.47 | Tanner | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:17.56 | brad | Tanner: yeah, it's a bzadmin command |
| 02:18.32 | spldart | So I assume if i have a client on 0041 right now I can only go to a server by manually entering the address |
| 02:19.10 | spldart | interesting |
| 02:19.39 | *** join/#bzflag romfis (i=Roman@chello062178107024.8.12.vie.surfer.at) |
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| 02:43.50 | SportChick | jeff: what do I use alot? |
| 02:44.07 | mmarshall | bzadmin |
| 02:44.21 | SportChick | ahhh, not as much as I used to... |
| 02:56.18 | *** join/#bzflag Tanner_S (n=chatzill@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
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| 03:24.43 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
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| 03:42.20 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
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| 03:58.04 | silverfox | has anyone created a headless client yet? |
| 03:58.35 | CBG | headless..? |
| 03:58.46 | L4m3r | no display (for running a bot) |
| 03:58.54 | CBG | oh, cool. |
| 03:59.12 | L4m3r | I believe Teppic has come pretty close - something like 10px display :P |
| 03:59.20 | L4m3r | er, window |
| 03:59.47 | silverfox | heh... what about a machine that doesn't have x ? |
| 03:59.51 | CBG | heh. if I run a roger bot, I turn all settings down, make my window as small as possible so that I just get a small title bar, then I put it in the dock. ;) |
| 04:00.20 | L4m3r | you might as well just leave it in the dock |
| 04:00.30 | L4m3r | once it's minimized, it's not rendering anyway |
| 04:00.49 | CBG | sshhhh ;) |
| 04:01.08 | JeffM2501 | it also usualy pauses when it looses focus |
| 04:01.20 | brad | not on auto.. |
| 04:01.27 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (n=QB@adsl-33-221-69.lft.bellsouth.net) |
| 04:01.38 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 04:01.49 | JeffM2501 | some of the school projects may have done some headless work |
| 04:01.58 | JeffM2501 | it's not a simple task tho |
| 04:01.59 | CBG | I think the pause when F4 is pressed was a 2.0.8 thing. I haven't run a roger bot like this since 2.0.6 or so. |
| 04:08.06 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (n=A-Delusi@pool-71-253-0-83.pitbpa.east.verizon.net) |
| 04:09.04 | JeffM2501 | minimise /maximise is one way to make fake lag |
| 04:10.11 | CBG | But only whilst it's minimising/maximising, and shortly after, right |
| 04:10.13 | CBG | ? |
| 04:10.29 | JeffM2501 | people would spam it |
| 04:11.58 | CBG | oh so tired :( |
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| 09:26.37 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10admin/master-bans.txt: multiple public server cheating incidents including multiple public league server abuses (T-90) -- uses IPs that span at least half a class B network but it's worth publishing in either respect |
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| 10:44.39 | trac_ | I just sniffed some packet flows from server to client and i it seems like there are some packets lost. Does anybody has the time to explain me the basics of the packet flow in bzfs? |
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| 14:35.41 | Skeeve | Can anyone please tet my mind on track: What's the command to update my cvs checkout? |
| 14:37.32 | Chestal | 'cvs up', or maybe 'cvs up -Pd' or similar |
| 14:37.51 | Skeeve | cvs sp -Pd |
| 14:38.04 | Skeeve | sorry... wrong window again |
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| 14:51.45 | longhair | running kubuntu amd64, and compiled bzflag from cvs. Can't shoot anyone, and my jitter is ~375ms. "official" package (v. 2.0.4) does the same |
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| 14:53.48 | *** join/#bzflag Saturos (n=Saturos@p57A0D4F7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:55.47 | Constitution | Have you tried different servers? |
| 14:55.55 | Constitution | Sounds like a UDP problem. |
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| 15:00.00 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 15:01.51 | CBG | ~Saturos++ |
| 15:04.57 | ToughShooter | I would say it is the typical gcc problem |
| 15:05.44 | longhair | tried several servers, same result |
| 15:05.47 | ToughShooter | longhair: Try compiling it with an older gcc version than 4 if this happens on all servers |
| 15:05.57 | longhair | ToughShooter: will do. thx |
| 15:10.57 | longhair | hmm, have both gcc-4.0 and gcc-3.4 installed. is there a way to specify w/ the configure? |
| 15:11.25 | ToughShooter | gcc_select |
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| 15:22.01 | longhair | hmmm, is gcc_select a bash command? Don't have it, just changed my symlink in /usr/bin |
| 15:27.39 | *** part/#bzflag Saturos (n=Saturos@p57A0D4F7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:30.30 | ToughShooter | Hmm, no idea |
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| 15:31.31 | Admirarch | gcc-config here |
| 15:32.14 | ToughShooter | Heh, I do not have a gcc-config ;) |
| 15:36.55 | longhair | well, no dice. Still the same lag and shooting problems |
| 15:37.09 | longhair | confirmed that the gcc compiler was 3.4 |
| 15:37.23 | longhair | "official" ubuntu client does it too |
| 15:38.13 | *** join/#bzflag kyelewis` (n=kyelewis@freematrix/staff/kyelewis) |
| 15:38.15 | longhair | also got kicked when using GM flag saying something like "wrong end shots detected" |
| 15:38.26 | longhair | cheat prevention? |
| 15:39.43 | longhair | _can_ shoot myself |
| 15:41.18 | longhair | hmmm, have g++ 4.0 still... |
| 15:43.39 | DTRemenak | the wrong end shots detected thing is a bit buggy, particularly if you're lagging a bit |
| 15:44.02 | longhair | ah, cool. Good idea, though. |
| 15:44.32 | DTRemenak | it kicks people who are using endshot cheats almost instantly |
| 15:45.09 | DTRemenak | most admins are aware that if someone's been on the server for a while and gets kicked by it, especially while using gm, they're not cheating |
| 15:45.18 | longhair | what is an endshot cheat, anyway? |
| 15:45.47 | DTRemenak | you don't see it much anymore..used to be rather rampant. makes other people's shots end just before your tank, so you don't die |
| 15:46.10 | longhair | lol, kind of obvious |
| 15:46.16 | DTRemenak | one form of god mode, which can be subtle if done right |
| 15:46.27 | DTRemenak | the most blatant form is very obvious |
| 15:46.52 | DTRemenak | the subtle form usually involves "if a shot was fired from more than 3/4 max shot length away, end it before it hits me" or something similar |
| 15:47.31 | longhair | so it doesn't look too weird when the middle shot of 3 doesn't connect |
| 15:47.36 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 15:47.44 | DTRemenak | and stray shots never hit you |
| 15:48.06 | DTRemenak | but every kind gets caught by that detection, and quite fast |
| 15:48.15 | DTRemenak | nobody uses it anymore :) |
| 15:48.18 | longhair | :) |
| 15:48.39 | DTRemenak | so we figure leaving it in is worth the occasional innocent player getting kicked after playing for an hour or so :) |
| 15:49.27 | longhair | so it's particularly buggy if your jitter is, say, 375ms? |
| 15:50.24 | DTRemenak | yeah. your client intentionally ends quite a few shots; sometimes the server thinks it did it at the wrong time. |
| 15:50.39 | longhair | ah |
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| 16:10.01 | longhair | yay, got it fixed. |
| 16:10.19 | longhair | symlinked gcc to gcc-3.4 and g++ to g++-3.4 |
| 16:10.46 | ToughShooter | :) |
| 16:10.49 | ToughShooter | I was right |
| 16:10.55 | longhair | I bet that there's an easier way. Will have to do some research, but thx for the tip! |
| 16:11.06 | ToughShooter | There is a bug in your gcc |
| 16:11.21 | longhair | 4.0 version you mean? |
| 16:11.28 | ToughShooter | Don't know about a fix other than downgrading |
| 16:11.29 | ToughShooter | yupp |
| 16:12.04 | longhair | well, good to know what's going on. |
| 16:12.30 | longhair | a rather disconcerting bug, I must say ;) |
| 16:13.22 | longhair | funny that the official .deb was screwed up too. Guess i'll have to submit a bug report |
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| 17:49.55 | JeffM2501 | Mr_Molez, you try the new team flag graphics? |
| 17:51.25 | Mr_Molez | no, is it fixed now ? |
| 17:52.38 | JeffM2501 | I added the images in |
| 17:52.48 | JeffM2501 | wonder what you think of em |
| 17:53.01 | Mr_Molez | ill check them out now, give me a minute |
| 17:56.01 | Mr_Molez | pretty nice :D better than just a boring plain colour :) |
| 17:56.20 | JeffM2501 | I'm going to see if I can do something where the server specifiys a team logo |
| 17:56.25 | JeffM2501 | and puts it on the flag too |
| 17:56.57 | Mr_Molez | what would the logo be ? |
| 17:57.07 | JeffM2501 | one of a selectable set of images |
| 17:57.22 | Mr_Molez | ok |
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| 17:59.37 | shorty114 | or, in matches, each team could have their own logo on their flags and tanks and bases... |
| 17:59.57 | JeffM2501 | the problem being is how do you determine who sets the logo ;) |
| 18:00.02 | JeffM2501 | hence why the server will set it |
| 18:00.07 | shorty114 | yeah |
| 18:00.21 | shorty114 | could dynamically set it |
| 18:00.28 | JeffM2501 | still based on what? |
| 18:00.31 | Mr_Molez | The server wont be able to decide a map on a league team, because the doesn't know who is on what team |
| 18:00.42 | JeffM2501 | it dosnt' even know anything abou teams |
| 18:00.47 | shorty114 | the admin could do it before every match |
| 18:00.52 | JeffM2501 | exactly |
| 18:00.54 | shorty114 | have a directory full of the teams' images |
| 18:00.56 | JeffM2501 | so that's the server setting it |
| 18:00.57 | ToughShooter | There should be a plugin that teaches the server |
| 18:01.06 | JeffM2501 | yeah you could set the var with a plugin |
| 18:01.18 | shorty114 | would it be possible to change it on-the-fly? |
| 18:01.22 | ToughShooter | There are websites that list to what team a player belongs |
| 18:01.23 | JeffM2501 | tho I'll have to see how to get it to reload the texture when it changes |
| 18:01.32 | Mr_Molez | openleague could do it . we have scripts for auto report that decides who is on what team :P |
| 18:01.33 | JeffM2501 | shorty114, anythign is possible |
| 18:01.36 | ToughShooter | So it can be done via a plugin, too |
| 18:01.50 | JeffM2501 | right now we load textures at startup time |
| 18:01.53 | shorty114 | JeffM2501, true, but is it possible in the current code? |
| 18:02.04 | JeffM2501 | shorty114, no not at all |
| 18:02.12 | JeffM2501 | the current code has no concept of a team logo at all |
| 18:02.16 | JeffM2501 | it has to be changed |
| 18:02.29 | JeffM2501 | if it was possible in the current code, it'd be done by now ;) |
| 18:03.07 | shorty114 | that would be interesting... |
| 18:03.08 | ToughShooter | Oh, BZFLag would get some bugs then |
| 18:03.16 | JeffM2501 | shorty114, got 1.5 million dolars? |
| 18:03.37 | shorty114 | JeffM2501, there are 3rd party mods... |
| 18:03.38 | ToughShooter | Bugs the BZFLag developers may not know about ;) |
| 18:03.43 | shorty114 | made for free |
| 18:03.57 | JeffM2501 | shorty114, ok so you want to then make every bzflag player go out and buy halflife |
| 18:04.01 | JeffM2501 | aka spend $50 |
| 18:04.15 | JeffM2501 | as well as every developer |
| 18:04.18 | shorty114 | but that would require getting familiar with the HL2 SDK on the developer's side |
| 18:04.24 | shorty114 | so i take that back ;) |
| 18:04.39 | shorty114 | hey, it's a good game ;) |
| 18:04.50 | Mr_Molez | unless its also a client thing... players can manually enter a link to their team flag.. and if servers sees all people on that team has having the same flag it would set it to that flag ? |
| 18:05.01 | shorty114 | Mr_Molez, that would open it up to abuse |
| 18:05.04 | ToughShooter | Graphics as is are ok for me ;) |
| 18:05.10 | JeffM2501 | Mr_Molez, I'd rather a plugin do that for now |
| 18:05.13 | Mr_Molez | shorty114: no the images would be in my.bzflag.org |
| 18:05.26 | JeffM2501 | well I didn't say I was hooking it into downloads |
| 18:05.26 | shorty114 | Mr_Molez, oh, so in the forums, you can select your flag? |
| 18:05.45 | JeffM2501 | wow, that is just about the bigest case of "not geting it" I have seen |
| 18:05.59 | Mr_Molez | shorty114: no you type the address to the image yourself. duno just an idea, prolly a bad one :P |
| 18:06.31 | JeffM2501 | it's not that bad, it could be done as a plugin where everyone does like /flaglogo and it uses the logo that the majority have set |
| 18:06.32 | Mr_Molez | although.. Would global login allow you to select maps ? then the server would get the info from global ? |
| 18:06.41 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 18:06.47 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: yeh thats easier :P |
| 18:06.56 | JeffM2501 | the map is loaded by the time global login happens |
| 18:07.03 | JeffM2501 | and global login is a user thing, not a server thing |
| 18:07.06 | JeffM2501 | servers don't log in |
| 18:07.17 | Mr_Molez | no but servers get info from global |
| 18:07.30 | JeffM2501 | only when a user logs in |
| 18:07.35 | JeffM2501 | during the player update |
| 18:07.47 | Mr_Molez | oh ok |
| 18:07.48 | JeffM2501 | it gets the token and gorup verification |
| 18:08.07 | JeffM2501 | and the inital list server add |
| 18:08.33 | Mr_Molez | to be honest i don't like the idea of configurable flags, no one pays attention to how the flag looks anyway |
| 18:08.49 | JeffM2501 | it would just be the team flag |
| 18:08.58 | JeffM2501 | then maybe the same logo on the tank |
| 18:09.14 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: now that is a nice idea ;) logos on tanks |
| 18:09.28 | JeffM2501 | the hard part would be making it look good |
| 18:09.30 | Mr_Molez | make people pay for it ! :) |
| 18:09.40 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 18:09.58 | Mr_Molez | pay to have logos on their tanks |
| 18:10.02 | Mr_Molez | and flags |
| 18:12.00 | JeffM2501 | why? |
| 18:12.27 | Mr_Molez | to help pay for the make code and get money thing |
| 18:12.48 | JeffM2501 | you still haven't proven that there are developers willing to do it for money out there |
| 18:13.14 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: didn't someone make the image uploader for money ? |
| 18:13.22 | JeffM2501 | they didn't take the moeny |
| 18:13.25 | Mr_Molez | ahh |
| 18:13.47 | Mr_Molez | ok forget it |
| 18:23.49 | JeffM2501 | I figure I'll start with some that we ship with it, then we can look into other ways to get new ones in there |
| 18:24.12 | trac_ | is it possible to register a team logo for a flag somewhere on a central server, so every gu / ducati team can have his own flag? |
| 18:24.22 | trac_ | (possible = easy to implement ;) ) |
| 18:24.22 | JeffM2501 | not at this time |
| 18:24.40 | trac_ | would be a GREAT idea :) |
| 18:24.46 | JeffM2501 | once the logo system is in place, then geting it to pull form a download is simpler |
| 18:24.58 | trac_ | logo system? |
| 18:25.07 | trac_ | u mean at the league sides? |
| 18:25.18 | JeffM2501 | no I mean making the game show team logos on flags |
| 18:25.21 | JeffM2501 | it dosn't do it right now |
| 18:25.35 | trac_ | ahhh.... i see... |
| 18:30.34 | DTRemenak | patches welcome? :) |
| 18:31.48 | trac_ | hey DTRemenak did u get my message? |
| 18:31.58 | DTRemenak | yup, did you get mine? :) |
| 18:32.02 | trac_ | ups |
| 18:32.04 | trac_ | nope |
| 18:32.08 | DTRemenak | thanks for testing it |
| 18:32.19 | DTRemenak | if there's no problem, then I guess there's no problem :) |
| 18:32.44 | trac_ | i think he used an old cvs version |
| 18:32.53 | JeffM2501 | in the end I'd like to see a system where we told users that new global content was avaialabe and if they want to sync up at each lauch |
| 18:33.21 | trac_ | yeah, that would be nice, but what content do u mean? |
| 18:33.35 | trac_ | like logos, messages and co? |
| 18:34.03 | JeffM2501 | map textures, logos, stuff like that |
| 18:34.44 | trac_ | + automatic update system ;)) |
| 18:35.00 | trac_ | *j/k* |
| 18:35.08 | JeffM2501 | no really |
| 18:35.17 | JeffM2501 | 2.2 will have the start of one |
| 18:35.28 | trac_ | wow |
| 18:35.34 | JeffM2501 | the MOTD can now tell the client that a new version exists and if you want to download it. |
| 18:35.43 | JeffM2501 | then the client will download it |
| 18:35.55 | JeffM2501 | on windows we can have the client then RUN the installer, and auto install |
| 18:36.01 | trac_ | sounds great.... |
| 18:36.04 | JeffM2501 | linux and mac... not so much |
| 18:36.09 | trac_ | but whats about all that unixes? |
| 18:36.25 | JeffM2501 | well mac may work, linux we can maybe just send them to a site with packages and tarballs |
| 18:36.39 | JeffM2501 | at least do something more then we do now |
| 18:37.02 | trac_ | but sounds great, so nobody would have to check on the hp every day ;) |
| 18:37.41 | trac_ | but hopefully, nobody hacks the server.... |
| 18:37.51 | trac_ | otherwise we get into trouble |
| 18:38.06 | JeffM2501 | it only comes from the MOTD |
| 18:38.11 | JeffM2501 | so they'd have to hack into SF |
| 18:38.14 | JeffM2501 | possible, but why bother? |
| 18:38.19 | trac_ | ;) |
| 18:38.21 | JeffM2501 | cus we'd see it instalyaly and fix it |
| 18:38.44 | JeffM2501 | I mean windows releases only realy come from 2 places |
| 18:38.51 | JeffM2501 | and I'm one of em |
| 18:39.04 | trac_ | ok, i got it :) |
| 18:39.23 | JeffM2501 | and now it is time for the lunch |
| 18:39.42 | spldart | mmMMmm lunch |
| 18:41.22 | [NP]Tangent | mmmm gabber |
| 18:41.51 | [NP]Tangent | grrr, I hate you firefox |
| 18:41.56 | [NP]Tangent | STOP SEGFAULTING |
| 18:45.18 | spldart | hehe |
| 18:53.29 | [NP]Tangent | there we go |
| 18:53.47 | [NP]Tangent | so yeah |
| 18:54.05 | [NP]Tangent | this idiot at my school continues to say he's going to slit my throat on a myspace forum |
| 18:54.12 | [NP]Tangent | honestly |
| 18:54.23 | [NP]Tangent | what is the point of saying that on a forum? everyone just laughs at you for it |
| 18:55.18 | Admirarch | Unless you got through with it |
| 18:55.28 | *** join/#bzflag A_Meteorite (n=A_Meteor@adsl-75-15-145-120.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:55.45 | [NP]Tangent | nah, he won't |
| 18:55.57 | [NP]Tangent | cuz I only have half days of classes this year |
| 18:56.04 | [NP]Tangent | woot for brilliant scheduling skillz |
| 18:56.14 | A_Meteorite | JeffM2501: hmmm that's weird, it's fine at my home computer |
| 18:56.26 | A_Meteorite | anyways, I can login now. they must block POST values now or something :) |
| 18:57.08 | [NP]Tangent | dude meteorite |
| 18:57.14 | A_Meteorite | yes> |
| 18:57.15 | [NP]Tangent | we've had kids look at porn at our school |
| 18:57.20 | A_Meteorite | heh |
| 18:57.22 | [NP]Tangent | bzbb's got nothing on that |
| 18:57.23 | [NP]Tangent | :D |
| 18:57.34 | [NP]Tangent | now we'd be dead if we played bzflag |
| 18:57.35 | A_Meteorite | I had an adult next to me looking at porn... it's summer school... |
| 18:57.35 | [NP]Tangent | but heh |
| 18:57.48 | A_Meteorite | the teacher comes up and says "if your wife saw that she would slap you" |
| 18:57.57 | [NP]Tangent | haha |
| 18:58.07 | A_Meteorite | "get back to work" |
| 18:58.14 | A_Meteorite | and there is kids in the room |
| 18:58.44 | A_Meteorite | and my proxy didn't let me login either |
| 18:58.48 | A_Meteorite | I got a secret proxy :) |
| 18:58.58 | A_Meteorite | just kept telling me invalid username or password... |
| 18:59.24 | A_Meteorite | well, it's better than before! the bzbb doesn't got it's IP banned in their proxy now |
| 18:59.48 | A_Meteorite | lol... time for a match and I just got home |
| 18:59.50 | A_Meteorite | *sighs* |
| 18:59.57 | [NP]Tangent | a match! |
| 19:00.04 | [NP]Tangent | how absurd |
| 19:00.12 | A_Meteorite | dub.bzflag.org:59997 |
| 19:00.17 | [NP]Tangent | ah |
| 19:04.37 | [NP]Tangent | we should get another plosi match in today |
| 19:04.40 | [NP]Tangent | in the next hour or so |
| 19:04.44 | [NP]Tangent | cu zI have to leave soon |
| 19:04.53 | [NP]Tangent | and I won't be on until tomorrow afternoon |
| 19:28.04 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=TD-Linux@24-159-197-101.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 19:28.50 | trac_ | Can anybody tell me under which circumstances this happens: - client side bots make the client get disconected (read error) |
| 19:30.32 | DTRemenak | trac_: that bug entry was added by JeffM2501; I'd ask him. If he doesn't remember, try looking at the IRC logs for this channel for the 5th or 6th of May, 2006 |
| 19:31.15 | trac_ | hwo? :) *noobish* |
| 19:31.19 | DTRemenak | ~logs |
| 19:31.20 | ibot | it has been said that logs is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/, or stats http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/bzflag.html.gz |
| 19:31.20 | trac_ | *how |
| 19:31.42 | DTRemenak | "cvs annotate" is very useful for finding out who made a change, when, and why |
| 19:32.22 | DTRemenak | the web interface is maybe even better. look at http://bzflag.cvs.sourceforge.net/bzflag/bzflag/BUGS?annotate=2.45 for example. |
| 19:33.33 | trac_ | i see... |
| 19:33.48 | trac_ | tupone says something like "the client side is maybe loosing some messages" |
| 19:34.35 | DTRemenak | hm, it shouldn't lose anything... |
| 19:34.43 | DTRemenak | but tupone knows more than I about such things |
| 19:36.16 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (n=QB@adsl-33-221-69.lft.bellsouth.net) |
| 19:36.18 | trac_ | i debugged a lot with bots in recent times and recognized that the "linux udp buffer" seems too small for it |
| 19:36.27 | trac_ | i lose packages via loopback |
| 19:36.46 | trac_ | especially when i disable the udp-buffer in bzfs |
| 19:37.13 | trac_ | but every time i massivly increase the linux buffer from about 100k to 8MB it works all fine |
| 19:37.23 | DTRemenak | hm, that's interesting |
| 19:37.34 | DTRemenak | is it possible to compensate for that in bzfs? |
| 19:37.38 | trac_ | it seems like the server just blows linux buffers ;) |
| 19:37.52 | trac_ | well, it should send a lot slower |
| 19:38.07 | trac_ | i tested a lot with up to 40-50 bots at oncee |
| 19:38.25 | trac_ | but without server side buffer it starts to show udp-lose with more than 11 bots |
| 19:38.43 | DTRemenak | trac_: JeffM2501 said on 6 May, "ibot, message for tupone, your bot problem is due to checkins on 12-26-2005, (playing.cxx revs 2.168 and 2.169 ), When you merged the bot and player conections you broke bots it seems." |
| 19:39.22 | trac_ | hmmm....... |
| 19:39.33 | trac_ | but it works all fine with BIG buffers |
| 19:40.05 | trac_ | btw. i have no idea about the "old" bot system... |
| 19:40.07 | DTRemenak | that's at 05:58.42 in the logs. you can read the conversation around there if you want, might shed some more light |
| 19:40.19 | trac_ | did the old system also send a dozen messages to the client, that started the bots |
| 19:40.24 | DTRemenak | ah. it used to be that bots each established their own connection to the server |
| 19:40.31 | DTRemenak | rather than sharing the player's connection |
| 19:40.32 | trac_ | AHHH! |
| 19:40.34 | trac_ | there we go! |
| 19:40.42 | trac_ | multiple buffers! |
| 19:40.59 | DTRemenak | if you check out another copy of bzflag with -r v2_0branch you can test the old code too |
| 19:41.14 | DTRemenak | or if you already know what the deal is, that's cool too :) |
| 19:41.16 | trac_ | i think i got the problem... |
| 19:41.44 | trac_ | due to the bots and the client share a single buffer, the buffer just gets full |
| 19:41.46 | trac_ | i mean |
| 19:41.55 | DTRemenak | heh. that makes sense. |
| 19:41.56 | trac_ | 40 bots... thats 39*39 update messages |
| 19:41.58 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 19:42.30 | trac_ | sadly, i cant test it with *BSDs oder MACs |
| 19:42.36 | trac_ | maybe it is the same there |
| 19:42.38 | DTRemenak | I don't think anyone here would have a problem with reverting that change. Some of us weren't particularly happy with it in the first place. |
| 19:42.45 | trac_ | NO! |
| 19:42.49 | trac_ | it is all fine! |
| 19:43.01 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 19:43.05 | trac_ | u just dont need a hundred update messages for a single client |
| 19:43.14 | trac_ | the client KNOWS his own bots |
| 19:43.25 | DTRemenak | I think that was part of tupone's logic |
| 19:43.34 | trac_ | why should he get 39*39-39 message more than he needs to |
| 19:44.06 | trac_ | i think tupone simply did not finish his job :) |
| 19:44.12 | DTRemenak | that well could be :) |
| 19:44.26 | *** join/#bzflag kyelewis[2] (n=kyelewis@freematrix/staff/kyelewis) |
| 19:45.23 | trac_ | it toke about 4*8h work to realise where that messages vanish ;) |
| 19:45.39 | trac_ | i even wrote my own ethereal plugin ;)) |
| 19:46.17 | DTRemenak | sweet |
| 19:46.43 | trac_ | yeah, it works quite fine... shows me bzflag - packets and names as well as some values of it ;) |
| 19:47.09 | DTRemenak | cool. if ethereal accepts such things, you may want to submit it to them |
| 19:47.10 | trac_ | but u guys keep on changing the protocol, so it is hard to keep on date ;) |
| 19:47.15 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 19:47.27 | trac_ | better not till u freeze the protocol |
| 19:47.37 | DTRemenak | k, that's fine too :) |
| 19:47.47 | DTRemenak | be about 6 months probably |
| 19:47.58 | trac_ | ouch... ;) |
| 19:48.08 | trac_ | hope u finish it in about 6 weeks ;)) |
| 19:48.12 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 19:49.12 | DTRemenak | there have been people pushing for a faster release cycle. that'd be nice in a lot of ways. |
| 19:49.32 | trac_ | yeah, but u cant split urself... u need more devs too :( |
| 19:50.01 | trac_ | i even heard that tupone said bye bye to bzflag ;( thats hard to compensate |
| 19:50.22 | DTRemenak | he may just be on vacation. nobody knows, that's part of the problem |
| 19:50.34 | trac_ | he told me once, he is no active dev any more ,( |
| 19:50.43 | DTRemenak | aw :( |
| 19:50.56 | trac_ | said something about: too messy code and stuff |
| 19:51.10 | trac_ | and people just make it worse |
| 19:51.17 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 19:51.34 | DTRemenak | I don't think he was very fond of the API stuff :) |
| 19:51.44 | trac_ | at least thats what he told me in about 5 sentence ;) |
| 19:51.54 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 19:52.07 | trac_ | API stuff? u mean the plugins? |
| 19:52.11 | DTRemenak | unforunately, leaving does not make anything cleaner :) |
| 19:52.15 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 19:52.40 | DTRemenak | has hooks all over bzfs. from the perspective of someone working on bzfs proper, it makes things ugly and unpredictable |
| 19:53.06 | DTRemenak | but it does expose everything nicely for people who don't want to mess with the rest of bzfs |
| 19:53.30 | trac_ | i see.... thats why the python api is sooooo important |
| 19:53.43 | trac_ | to offer people a nice and easy way to mess around ;) |
| 19:53.55 | DTRemenak | yeah, that's the whole point of having the api :) |
| 19:54.31 | trac_ | is there a doku? *j/k* |
| 19:54.37 | DTRemenak | there is, actually |
| 19:54.42 | DTRemenak | not very up to date |
| 19:54.42 | trac_ | WT....? |
| 19:54.48 | trac_ | ahhh , i knew it ;) |
| 19:54.50 | DTRemenak | see plugins/doc |
| 19:55.07 | DTRemenak | not as badly out of date as our net proto docs :) |
| 19:55.15 | trac_ | LOL YES! |
| 19:55.39 | trac_ | when i wrote the ethereal thing, i realised it describes like version 0019 ;)) |
| 19:55.51 | DTRemenak | everyone who tries to use those for anything comes in here like "bzflag does nothing like what the docs say it does..." |
| 19:55.52 | trac_ | thats 1.X , right? ;)) |
| 19:56.08 | DTRemenak | 0019 is 1.11.30-something I think |
| 19:56.13 | trac_ | loool |
| 19:56.19 | trac_ | tooo funny to be true |
| 19:56.22 | DTRemenak | the 2.0 alphas |
| 19:56.37 | trac_ | u even describe alphas ;))) thats even funnier |
| 19:56.52 | DTRemenak | the docs get updated to head whenever someone feels like it |
| 19:57.03 | DTRemenak | which is not very often, and usually in the middle of a dev cycle |
| 19:57.27 | trac_ | hehe, i see... |
| 19:58.10 | DTRemenak | unfortunately everybody who understand the net protocol realizes that the need to fix it outweighs the need to document it :) |
| 19:58.38 | trac_ | oh and by the way: |
| 19:58.44 | DTRemenak | there is WAY too much trust of the client |
| 19:59.11 | trac_ | is there any time, that the client sends the "BIG" update message? |
| 19:59.18 | trac_ | i did not see it in ethereal... |
| 19:59.32 | trac_ | it kept on sending shorts ... |
| 19:59.39 | DTRemenak | hm, I thought the short one was the one it never sent |
| 19:59.44 | trac_ | LOL |
| 19:59.50 | trac_ | it is vice versa ;)) |
| 19:59.52 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 20:00.04 | trac_ | at least, from what i saw |
| 20:00.06 | DTRemenak | shows how much I know :) |
| 20:00.23 | Chestal | is that the integer optimization for small coordinates? |
| 20:00.29 | DTRemenak | I think so, yes |
| 20:00.35 | trac_ | float -> short |
| 20:00.37 | DTRemenak | it could be sent only when teleporting |
| 20:00.44 | DTRemenak | or something of that nature |
| 20:00.50 | Chestal | is the granularity a server variable? or is it fixed? |
| 20:00.57 | DTRemenak | I have no idea |
| 20:00.59 | trac_ | let me check |
| 20:01.02 | Chestal | me neither :-) |
| 20:01.06 | trac_ | i think it was about times 50 |
| 20:01.18 | trac_ | *50 times ;) |
| 20:01.19 | Chestal | but I guess the big message woudl be sent for big coordinates. Maybe never happens on normal sized maps then |
| 20:02.39 | DTRemenak | trac_ thinks he may have figured out why bots are busted |
| 20:02.49 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 20:02.50 | trac_ | yep, i "may"... |
| 20:03.10 | JeffM2501 | the changes that broke them seemed rather localised |
| 20:03.21 | trac_ | i thought about the fact that the connections got combined |
| 20:03.24 | trac_ | to a single one |
| 20:03.32 | JeffM2501 | yeah that's the commit that busted it |
| 20:03.46 | JeffM2501 | I spent a day bracketing it down to that one commit ;) |
| 20:03.53 | trac_ | and i know there are some messages missing on client side |
| 20:03.56 | DTRemenak | yeah, that's why your name was flashing...you said that some time ago, and I quoted you :) |
| 20:04.01 | JeffM2501 | ahh ok |
| 20:04.10 | JeffM2501 | seems it was up past my scrollback |
| 20:04.18 | trac_ | so i checked a lot in the code and debuged a few days |
| 20:04.32 | *** join/#bzflag I_Died_Once (n=I_Died_O@c-69-136-41-50.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 20:04.38 | trac_ | then i realised that "ethereal" also did not see that messages at loopback |
| 20:04.49 | trac_ | but the server sended it via NetHandler |
| 20:04.57 | trac_ | i check with "netstat -s" |
| 20:05.06 | trac_ | and saw my linux is dropping it |
| 20:05.16 | trac_ | seems like the udp buffer gets full |
| 20:05.31 | JeffM2501 | well I was able to dupe it on windows as well |
| 20:05.33 | trac_ | so i increased the buffer to about 8MB and it works |
| 20:05.42 | trac_ | no dropping anymore |
| 20:05.44 | DTRemenak | windows has fixed buffers also |
| 20:05.50 | Chestal | 32766*0.02 = 655.32 is max coord for small packets (unless noSmallPackets var is set) |
| 20:05.52 | trac_ | and all bots just work fine |
| 20:05.56 | DTRemenak | the limits might be different but the problem is the same |
| 20:06.05 | JeffM2501 | so basicly combining it all together fills our one buffer, when we used to have seperate |
| 20:06.07 | DTRemenak | one buffer for N players instead of one per player |
| 20:06.10 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 20:06.19 | JeffM2501 | is it a bzflag buffer? |
| 20:06.23 | JeffM2501 | or a system buffer? |
| 20:06.24 | trac_ | no |
| 20:06.25 | DTRemenak | no, OS |
| 20:06.26 | trac_ | system |
| 20:06.36 | JeffM2501 | can we dynamicly incrase it based on the number of bots? |
| 20:06.40 | JeffM2501 | or is it fixed? |
| 20:06.41 | trac_ | no sry |
| 20:06.47 | trac_ | at least under linux u need root |
| 20:06.49 | JeffM2501 | ok so we have to go back to more then one conncection |
| 20:06.53 | DTRemenak | trac_ thinks that by combining status updates (IOW finishing what tupone started), we might be able to cut our usage down enough |
| 20:06.53 | trac_ | no |
| 20:07.00 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 20:07.16 | JeffM2501 | well good job at tracking it down :) |
| 20:07.16 | trac_ | u dont need to send the client 39 times the same message |
| 20:07.18 | DTRemenak | otherwise, yeah, we'll have to go back to separate connections |
| 20:07.54 | Chestal | so one bot works fine, but many bots don't right now? |
| 20:07.56 | trac_ | so what do u say? |
| 20:08.08 | trac_ | yes... at least thats what i saw |
| 20:08.20 | trac_ | from connection perspective ;) |
| 20:08.21 | JeffM2501 | I would fail on 1 bot |
| 20:08.30 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 20:09.29 | Chestal | on what side are the packets dropped? |
| 20:10.00 | Chestal | I mean sending/receiving client/server? |
| 20:10.04 | trac_ | from bzfs -> client |
| 20:10.08 | trac_ | in between ;) |
| 20:10.13 | trac_ | as far as i can tell u |
| 20:10.54 | DTRemenak | are both buffers handled by the same setting in linux, or can you change send/recieve independently? |
| 20:11.10 | trac_ | let me check |
| 20:11.11 | blast007 | so bzfs is sending back the position of the bots to the client running them? |
| 20:11.12 | DTRemenak | that'd tell you which side was dropping them. but I'd guess it's server anyway. |
| 20:11.16 | trac_ | i think it was a single property |
| 20:12.02 | trac_ | net.core.rmem_max = 107520 |
| 20:12.15 | trac_ | net.core.rmem_default = 107520 |
| 20:12.23 | trac_ | those two |
| 20:12.23 | DTRemenak | trac_: was it MsgPlayerUpdate that caused the problem, or did MsgAlive kill everything right at the beginning, when they all try to spawn simultaneously? |
| 20:12.40 | trac_ | MsgPlayerUpdate was the problem as far as i can say |
| 20:12.52 | trac_ | msgalive does not let them spawn any more at ur screen |
| 20:13.04 | DTRemenak | k |
| 20:13.08 | trac_ | cause there is a "return-statement " in the for loop now |
| 20:13.13 | trac_ | i think this is a bug too |
| 20:13.22 | DTRemenak | heh :) |
| 20:13.27 | trac_ | it used to be a break one in 2.0.X |
| 20:13.36 | DTRemenak | what file/line? |
| 20:13.42 | trac_ | but when JeffM reworked the code he might misstyped it |
| 20:13.46 | trac_ | playing.cxx |
| 20:14.12 | trac_ | line 1956 |
| 20:14.18 | trac_ | in function handleAliveMessage |
| 20:14.28 | trac_ | the robots part |
| 20:14.35 | JeffM2501 | let me look |
| 20:15.43 | DTRemenak | yup, that looks bad |
| 20:15.54 | trac_ | so the robots get their alive status with the first update message |
| 20:15.58 | trac_ | that sucks ;) *sry* |
| 20:16.04 | DTRemenak | break; there should have broken out of the loop, you probably thought it was to break out of the switch |
| 20:16.16 | JeffM2501 | ok so fix it ;) |
| 20:16.17 | Chestal | hmm, quite a few MsgPlayerUpdate packets should fit into 100k of buffer |
| 20:16.30 | trac_ | 39*39 is much tooo much ;) |
| 20:16.32 | JeffM2501 | splting up the functions is wacky |
| 20:16.38 | Chestal | if I have 10 bots, do I then receive each update package 11 times over the combined "connection"? |
| 20:16.46 | trac_ | yep |
| 20:16.59 | trac_ | it is N*N not N |
| 20:17.00 | trac_ | ;( |
| 20:17.07 | blast007 | ick... |
| 20:17.20 | Chestal | and it's silly to receive the update packets of the own bots anyway |
| 20:17.25 | trac_ | yep |
| 20:17.27 | trac_ | thats what i say |
| 20:18.00 | blast007 | well, that might be wanted eventually if/when the server validates your position, and adjust it accordingly |
| 20:18.04 | trac_ | so the server should send it a single time per update |
| 20:18.24 | Chestal | yes, I see no need to send any packet more than once over the same connection |
| 20:19.00 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/playing.cxx: oops |
| 20:19.06 | trac_ | lool |
| 20:19.13 | trac_ | nice annotation ;) |
| 20:19.23 | JeffM2501 | couldn't think of anything else to put |
| 20:19.37 | JeffM2501 | trac_, what is your SF username? |
| 20:19.51 | trac_ | tobiasa |
| 20:20.08 | trac_ | actually it should be "tobias a" ;) |
| 20:20.15 | JeffM2501 | what one is it on the site? |
| 20:20.17 | trac_ | but i dont know how sf react on spaces ;)) |
| 20:20.38 | JeffM2501 | do you have a sourceforge account? |
| 20:20.46 | trac_ | yes, it is "tobiasa" |
| 20:21.04 | DTRemenak | yeah, no space |
| 20:21.08 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 20:21.24 | DTRemenak | trac_: you'll be getting cvs commit access shortly, if it's ok with you. read DEVINFO if you haven't yet, and consult here before making major changes. |
| 20:21.29 | JeffM2501 | you now have commit access |
| 20:21.32 | JeffM2501 | don't break anything ;) |
| 20:21.57 | trac_ | WOW! to much honor for a single day,.... didnt expect that before end of summer ;)) |
| 20:22.12 | JeffM2501 | your actualy working on stuff, it's a good thing |
| 20:22.23 | JeffM2501 | don't break anything big ;) |
| 20:22.29 | DTRemenak | and you solve hard problems :) |
| 20:22.34 | trac_ | i already read DEVINFO (yesterday though ;) ) but i have to read about cvs now ;( |
| 20:22.56 | Chestal | the hardest part is to get the whitespace correct ;-) |
| 20:23.07 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 20:23.19 | bryjen | blackspace? |
| 20:23.20 | trac_ | ROFL... thats what i heard yesterday! ;) |
| 20:23.26 | DTRemenak | vi and emacs should do correct whitespace automatically |
| 20:23.26 | JeffM2501 | black NOTHING |
| 20:23.40 | DTRemenak | anything else, you have to set up correctly...best of luck :) |
| 20:23.51 | trac_ | i use nano ;) |
| 20:23.52 | JeffM2501 | we'll watch your commits for a while, we can revert if you screw something big up, not likely that you will |
| 20:24.08 | Chestal | I taught my fte to automatically go to bzflag whitespace mode |
| 20:24.09 | JeffM2501 | if you want to do a big change that changes gamplay and sutff, check with the others etc... |
| 20:24.16 | JeffM2501 | it's all rather informal tho. |
| 20:24.52 | trac_ | i see.... for the moment i work the bugs list from top to bottom , that should be enough for a human life ;) |
| 20:25.02 | DTRemenak | yeah, especially when we add more to the top :) |
| 20:25.03 | trac_ | i think i got 1 and 2 ;) |
| 20:25.16 | trac_ | 2 == oo bug |
| 20:25.19 | trac_ | 1 = bots ;) |
| 20:25.26 | DTRemenak | you may want to skip some...there are some really nasty ones in there |
| 20:26.02 | trac_ | my main problem is: i have no idea of 3d specific things, but thats why i am looking into the source :) |
| 20:26.15 | trac_ | protocol and stuff is my subject :) |
| 20:26.21 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 20:26.24 | Chestal | yay for bug hunting |
| 20:26.27 | DTRemenak | gl is not that difficult to figure out. there are about a million tutorials available. |
| 20:26.36 | DTRemenak | and honestly we need more help on the network end anyway :) |
| 20:26.40 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 20:26.54 | DTRemenak | 'specially if tupone is not going to be working on it |
| 20:27.20 | JeffM2501 | seriously anyone seen or heard from him? |
| 20:27.23 | JeffM2501 | hope he's ok |
| 20:27.41 | DTRemenak | trac_ said tupone told him he's no longer actively working on bzflag |
| 20:27.45 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 20:27.52 | JeffM2501 | did he say why? |
| 20:27.53 | trac_ | but wait |
| 20:27.55 | JeffM2501 | hope it's nothing I did |
| 20:28.04 | trac_ | i spoke with him in irc a few days ago |
| 20:28.06 | A_Meteorite | JeffM2501: another new dev? yay :) |
| 20:28.09 | trac_ | about 5 sentence |
| 20:28.25 | trac_ | i aksed him a question about the bots |
| 20:28.39 | DTRemenak | "yay" does not begin to express it, A_Meteorite :) |
| 20:28.46 | trac_ | and he said: sry, i am no active developer any more... then he started to say 2 sentence about the messy code |
| 20:28.57 | JeffM2501 | hmmm |
| 20:29.13 | trac_ | so dont take that discussion tooo serious |
| 20:29.19 | trac_ | it were about 5 sentences |
| 20:29.32 | A_Meteorite | DTRemenak: yahhhhhoo! |
| 20:29.34 | A_Meteorite | :P |
| 20:29.37 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 20:29.38 | trac_ | ;) |
| 20:29.46 | JeffM2501 | now to just keep them full with lists of stuff to do ;) |
| 20:30.31 | A_Meteorite | trac_: what are you most interested in bzflag? client or server? ;) |
| 20:30.33 | trac_ | sry guys, need to go and kill a few guys from t42 just robed us about 40 points brb.... |
| 20:30.38 | A_Meteorite | lol |
| 20:30.39 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 20:30.44 | trepan | 1. rewrite protocol |
| 20:30.55 | A_Meteorite | yeah, that's a must |
| 20:31.00 | trac_ | i think i will try to fix bugs for the beginning |
| 20:31.02 | trepan | should keep 'em busy ;) |
| 20:31.03 | A_Meteorite | 2. move everything server-side, see 1 |
| 20:31.05 | trac_ | thats what i am most into |
| 20:31.08 | trac_ | to learn the source |
| 20:31.10 | A_Meteorite | :) |
| 20:32.19 | A_Meteorite | <{:) |
| 20:32.23 | A_Meteorite | whoops :) |
| 20:32.52 | *** join/#bzflag mmarshall (n=mmarshal@208-47-112.adsl.terra.cl) |
| 20:33.02 | A_Meteorite | hi mmarshall |
| 20:33.10 | mmarshall | Hey |
| 20:33.35 | mmarshall | Did you take a look at the python plugin? |
| 20:34.04 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, so how hard is it gonna be to draw an image under a menu item in the dialog pannels? |
| 20:34.18 | DTRemenak | not hard at all |
| 20:34.26 | A_Meteorite | yeah, but what what's the "scons" command? |
| 20:34.28 | DTRemenak | TextureLabel will do it |
| 20:34.32 | A_Meteorite | "Here you go. Just extract into your plugin dir and type scons." |
| 20:34.48 | mmarshall | It's like make |
| 20:34.50 | A_Meteorite | I know how to extract, but no idea what scons is and it's not installed. ;) |
| 20:34.50 | JeffM2501 | any you got anything against me moving all the name/password stuff to a new "player setup" menu? |
| 20:34.55 | A_Meteorite | ick |
| 20:35.00 | JeffM2501 | do team colors there, logo, etc... |
| 20:35.06 | DTRemenak | hmm |
| 20:35.08 | JeffM2501 | maybe tank model if/when |
| 20:35.24 | DTRemenak | if you want to do that, add a facility to save more than one, and switch between them from the join menu |
| 20:35.40 | trac_ | JeffM2501: dont forget that some players dont want there password to be saved |
| 20:35.41 | JeffM2501 | profiles |
| 20:35.43 | DTRemenak | otherwise it's just more menus for no real reason |
| 20:35.49 | trac_ | so they need a fast methode to type it in |
| 20:35.54 | JeffM2501 | trac_, yeah we have a system for that now |
| 20:36.37 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: really I don't think team selection belongs there either...if you join a rabbit server one day, and ctf the next... |
| 20:37.21 | JeffM2501 | well rabbit is a form of automatic |
| 20:37.27 | JeffM2501 | was gonna call it "prefered" team |
| 20:37.46 | JeffM2501 | was thinking of keeping the team also on the join page, and just default it to the prefered team |
| 20:37.51 | DTRemenak | and people who play in leagues will switch from observers to different colors for each map |
| 20:37.56 | DTRemenak | yeah, that's fine |
| 20:37.56 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 20:38.06 | DTRemenak | same with password...have the option to save it in the profile |
| 20:38.06 | JeffM2501 | als I'm gonna try to get more colors in for Open FFA |
| 20:38.10 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 20:38.18 | DTRemenak | and if it's not saved, allow to type it in on join, like trac_ suggested |
| 20:38.40 | DTRemenak | probably want to split "default team" and "default color" for openffa |
| 20:38.45 | DTRemenak | if you're planning on doing that |
| 20:39.06 | DTRemenak | so they can leave their color set, and have the team override it if they join a team-style game |
| 20:39.12 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 20:39.28 | trac_ | sounds great |
| 20:39.29 | JeffM2501 | basicly the player setup sets the defaults for the join |
| 20:39.37 | DTRemenak | but yeah, if you avoid all that stuff, then I am not opposed :) |
| 20:39.38 | blast007 | or choose team color when you join |
| 20:39.38 | JeffM2501 | and lets you pick logo/skin/ model |
| 20:39.41 | mmarshall | In bz_fireWorldWep, what is the last parameter, 'dt', used for? |
| 20:39.45 | JeffM2501 | cus you'd not want to set tht every time |
| 20:39.49 | trac_ | it is quite boring to search again and again for one of the 100 gu servers |
| 20:40.10 | DTRemenak | mmarshall: dt is change in time, everywhere. it usually just gets passed on to any functions that are called. |
| 20:40.15 | JeffM2501 | mmarshall, I have no clue, it was used by trepans base function, I just exposed it ;) |
| 20:40.29 | JeffM2501 | it may not be needed. |
| 20:40.31 | DTRemenak | that should not be exposed to the API probably |
| 20:40.39 | DTRemenak | should be handled behind the scenes |
| 20:40.56 | mmarshall | I suppose that passing shotID is the same? |
| 20:41.10 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 20:41.17 | DTRemenak | also should not be exposed, should be picked automatically |
| 20:41.23 | JeffM2501 | both of those sould be picked for the plugin |
| 20:41.29 | JeffM2501 | it does need to be returned tho |
| 20:41.44 | JeffM2501 | as the plugin should be able to do stuff to the shot ( like your GM ) |
| 20:42.12 | A_Meteorite | hmmm... maybe a number of repeating fire world weapons |
| 20:42.15 | A_Meteorite | and a delay inbetween |
| 20:42.24 | A_Meteorite | but someone could easily do a for loop in their plugin :) |
| 20:42.34 | mmarshall | Alright, the shotID stuff was causing me a lot of head scratching... I guess I was thinking too hard for nothing :D |
| 20:42.35 | JeffM2501 | you'd not do it in a for loop ;) |
| 20:42.48 | JeffM2501 | mmarshall, that was basicly the FIRST api function |
| 20:42.51 | A_Meteorite | why? you would count how many times to shoot |
| 20:42.53 | mmarshall | lol |
| 20:42.56 | blast007 | mmm....automatic defense turrets ;) |
| 20:43.00 | A_Meteorite | lol |
| 20:43.06 | trac_ | hehehe |
| 20:43.10 | JeffM2501 | A_Meteorite, cus you'd want the server to do other stuff inbetween ;) |
| 20:43.14 | A_Meteorite | hehe |
| 20:43.17 | mmarshall | A_Meteorite: The reason is that the plugin API is blocking. |
| 20:43.21 | A_Meteorite | yeah |
| 20:43.27 | A_Meteorite | sleep would be dangerous |
| 20:43.29 | JeffM2501 | mmarshall, basicly there was this patch that added a world weap on capture |
| 20:43.30 | trac_ | no threading? ;) |
| 20:43.30 | mmarshall | You would want to do it with tick events. |
| 20:43.35 | A_Meteorite | threads! :P |
| 20:43.37 | JeffM2501 | and I'm like "hey I sould externalise that into plugins" |
| 20:43.48 | JeffM2501 | and thus the API was born |
| 20:43.58 | A_Meteorite | hmmm.. would be nice if each plugin spawned it's own thread... |
| 20:44.05 | JeffM2501 | A_Meteorite, it can if it wants to |
| 20:44.06 | trac_ | loool |
| 20:44.10 | mmarshall | Well, I'm sure glad it started somewhere! |
| 20:44.15 | A_Meteorite | JeffM2501: well, yeah, but you got to add it youreslf |
| 20:44.20 | A_Meteorite | and then mutexes... |
| 20:44.22 | A_Meteorite | eek.. |
| 20:44.29 | JeffM2501 | A_Meteorite, bzfs is single threaded, how else would you do it |
| 20:44.37 | trac_ | is there anything that makes use of multiple cores in bzflag yet? |
| 20:44.38 | mmarshall | A_Meteorite: IMHO, that would be very, very bad. |
| 20:44.40 | A_Meteorite | JeffM2501: by adding it in the api |
| 20:44.50 | trac_ | oh that awneserd |
| 20:44.51 | A_Meteorite | mmarshall: just a thought |
| 20:44.53 | trac_ | it |
| 20:45.13 | [NP]Tangent | Jeff, bzfs is single-threaded, but bzflag itself can be multi-threaded, right? |
| 20:45.19 | [NP]Tangent | I've heard that from someone |
| 20:45.31 | mmarshall | A_Meteorite: It would add a ton of unneeded complexity. |
| 20:45.34 | JeffM2501 | no it's prety much mult threaded |
| 20:45.39 | JeffM2501 | sorry single threaded |
| 20:45.41 | A_Meteorite | mmarshall: very true indeed |
| 20:45.45 | JeffM2501 | some instances may do a sound thread |
| 20:45.46 | [NP]Tangent | ah |
| 20:45.49 | JeffM2501 | that's a bout it |
| 20:45.56 | JeffM2501 | don't listen to grardux ;) |
| 20:45.57 | trac_ | every bot a thread.... ;) |
| 20:46.02 | [NP]Tangent | then my friend is an idiot, and should now be ignored |
| 20:46.04 | DTRemenak | bzfs is mostly single-threaded. there's an option that can turn on some limited threading; it's not well tested and not recommended. bzflag itself is single-threaded but relies on multi-threaded libraries for sound, dns resolving, and url handling |
| 20:46.07 | [NP]Tangent | actually, not Gnurd |
| 20:46.08 | [NP]Tangent | :P |
| 20:46.32 | A_Meteorite | ever since I enabled --enable-threads for bzflag I don't go NR in observer |
| 20:46.39 | A_Meteorite | but it randomly crashes... |
| 20:46.47 | DTRemenak | nice tradeoff |
| 20:46.50 | A_Meteorite | hehhe |
| 20:46.50 | blast007 | hehe |
| 20:46.57 | A_Meteorite | but at least I don't go NR when idle |
| 20:47.01 | A_Meteorite | O_o |
| 20:47.04 | trac_ | it would make BIG scence to have some thread enabled code for multi cores... they increase in number... |
| 20:47.35 | DTRemenak | trac_: most servers run more than one instance of bzfs, so having them multithreaded is no big gain |
| 20:47.48 | trac_ | i dont think about the servers ;) |
| 20:47.54 | blast007 | as people have suggested before, at least in the client, it would be nice to have different threads for stuff like the rendering, simulation, network, etc |
| 20:48.00 | trac_ | i think about the 99.9% of our users ;) |
| 20:48.37 | JeffM2501 | blast007, sure but then it'd be like a real engine ;) |
| 20:48.38 | DTRemenak | sure, sim and net separate from rendering would be nice. but it's a lot of added complexity |
| 20:48.41 | trac_ | and i dont know a lot people that have 2 clients at once ;) |
| 20:48.42 | blast007 | :) |
| 20:48.57 | DTRemenak | trac_: you might be surprised ;) |
| 20:48.57 | A_Meteorite | that's why I think --enable-plugins fixed me going NR :) |
| 20:49.12 | A_Meteorite | because it has something to do with the networking code.. |
| 20:49.13 | JeffM2501 | A_Meteorite, magic! |
| 20:49.20 | A_Meteorite | yeah, gotta love magic |
| 20:50.28 | A_Meteorite | seriously... any sensible explanations? |
| 20:51.04 | JeffM2501 | you don't think magic is sensible? |
| 20:51.11 | JeffM2501 | ok .. Mirracle! |
| 20:51.14 | trac_ | >;)) |
| 20:51.16 | A_Meteorite | lol |
| 20:51.16 | DTRemenak | yay miracle! |
| 20:51.18 | A_Meteorite | come on! |
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| 20:51.32 | A_Meteorite | can you tell me what parts it threads? |
| 20:51.38 | blast007 | the needle |
| 20:51.42 | A_Meteorite | argh |
| 20:51.46 | JeffM2501 | sound is threaded that's about it |
| 20:51.54 | A_Meteorite | ...I wonder why |
| 20:51.56 | A_Meteorite | hmm |
| 20:55.21 | JeffM2501 | ok sound MAY be threaded in some SDL implemenations :) |
| 20:55.24 | JeffM2501 | how's that |
| 20:55.44 | JeffM2501 | windows fires up a thread once, cus platform code is ugly to hook into |
| 20:57.49 | A_Meteorite | ah |
| 20:58.08 | A_Meteorite | I wonder why it doesn't make me go NR then :P :P |
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| 21:08.39 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: since we don't actually use most of the capability of HUDuiTextureLabel, I'm thinking about removing it in favor of a HUDuiImage class. That'd mean you couldn't set the focus to it, and you'd lose the ability to fall back to text, neither of which we currently use except for the header on the main menu. Does this sound ok? |
| 21:08.58 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 21:09.21 | JeffM2501 | we require a least some texturing for the UI now for fornts anyway |
| 21:09.28 | DTRemenak | yeah, that's what I was thinking |
| 21:09.37 | DTRemenak | and we don't ever set the focus to an image |
| 21:09.37 | JeffM2501 | poor bastardised font system :( |
| 21:09.42 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 21:10.07 | JeffM2501 | now if you can make it have derivable methods for the image and draw functions ;) |
| 21:10.15 | JeffM2501 | then it will make my team logo stuff easyer |
| 21:10.26 | DTRemenak | hmm? |
| 21:10.42 | JeffM2501 | I want to show the currently selected image under the text choice for it |
| 21:11.07 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: see JoinMenu::updateTeamTexture for how that's currently done |
| 21:11.10 | DTRemenak | it's pretty simple |
| 21:11.29 | JeffM2501 | it woudl also be cool to be able to overide the entire draw function to draw a real 3d object in there ( like say a tank ) |
| 21:11.40 | DTRemenak | ooh, like a HUDuiViewport :) |
| 21:11.50 | JeffM2501 | ok if we have stuff for it then fair nuf |
| 21:11.54 | JeffM2501 | I know little of hudness |
| 21:11.59 | DTRemenak | we don't have one yet |
| 21:12.03 | DTRemenak | doesn't mean we can't |
| 21:12.07 | JeffM2501 | sounds like you have a plan ;) |
| 21:12.20 | DTRemenak | you could say that |
| 21:12.33 | JeffM2501 | see, slowly you turn to the light side ;) |
| 21:13.00 | JeffM2501 | or is it dark |
| 21:13.03 | JeffM2501 | I always forget |
| 21:13.14 | DTRemenak | I'm implementing the things as I see a need for them. like if you're gonna be doing a bunch of image drawing, I may as well give you a nice clean lightweight class to work with so you don't have to deal with the hack that is HUDuiTextureLabel. |
| 21:13.37 | JeffM2501 | I think we will all do a lot more with images in the menus and hud |
| 21:13.47 | DTRemenak | I was thinking of that when I split off HUDuiElement |
| 21:14.39 | JeffM2501 | I so wish I could go down to the classroom and just bust out these regressions :( |
| 21:14.44 | DTRemenak | but what I really wanted then was HUDuiFrame :) |
| 21:16.58 | trepan | cegui? |
| 21:29.23 | JeffM2501 | his api was wierd |
| 21:29.32 | JeffM2501 | but then I'm probably just being picky |
| 21:32.47 | JeffM2501 | trepan, any idea what I'd have to do to get the team flags reload there texture IDs when a bzdb var changes? |
| 21:33.16 | JeffM2501 | or would that screw up the glState stuff? |
| 21:35.53 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: look into bzdb.addcallback/bzdb.removecallback |
| 21:36.07 | JeffM2501 | oh no not that part |
| 21:36.10 | JeffM2501 | I mean the texture part ;) |
| 21:36.14 | DTRemenak | ah |
| 21:36.32 | JeffM2501 | guess I coudl just have it reuibld the state for the scnenenode |
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| 21:39.00 | JeffM2501 | or trigger a style change... hmmm |
| 21:39.41 | DTRemenak | should be able to register a bzdb callback in FlagSceneNode that just calls setTexture |
| 21:40.01 | JeffM2501 | yeah, tho it's not that texture that gets updated :) |
| 21:40.12 | DTRemenak | huh? |
| 21:40.16 | DTRemenak | what texture are you doing? |
| 21:40.20 | JeffM2501 | the logo textures are colorless |
| 21:40.24 | JeffM2501 | and shared |
| 21:40.25 | DTRemenak | ahh |
| 21:40.33 | JeffM2501 | and blended on top of the colored team flag |
| 21:41.19 | DTRemenak | so you have to do it from elsewhere |
| 21:41.51 | JeffM2501 | I'm making it so that saves the texture ID, so I can just call setLogoTexture, then trigger a style change and it'll rebuild it |
| 21:42.03 | JeffM2501 | may not even need the style change |
| 21:43.11 | JeffM2501 | I think I''m starting to actualy understand the state stuff |
| 21:43.16 | JeffM2501 | and that means I'm going insane |
| 21:45.46 | DTRemenak | yes it does |
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| 21:47.16 | trac_ | re |
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| 22:56.04 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/ (9 files in 2 dirs): replace HUDuiTextureLabel with HUDuiElement-derived HUDuiImage |
| 22:58.05 | uso_p | JeffM2501: if you are doing user profiles it may be a good idea if you make them able to be asigned to servers |
| 22:58.25 | uso_p | a lot of people use different users or settings for different servers |
| 22:58.59 | uso_p | oops, he heard server list ... :) |
| 22:59.00 | blast007 | uso_p: you killed him ;) |
| 23:00.09 | blast007 | or inversely, assign a default server to profiles |
| 23:01.18 | uso_p | gives too much (equal) profiles, other way may be better |
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| 23:01.37 | uso_p | *too many |
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| 23:03.06 | JeffM2501 | sorry, saw my name flash right before the restart, what was it about? |
| 23:03.12 | uso_p | there are more server groups like ducati or gu style servers where you use the same profile |
| 23:03.17 | uso_p | JeffM2501: if you are doing user profiles it may be a good idea if you make them able to be asigned to servers |
| 23:03.22 | uso_p | a lot of people use different users or settings for different servers |
| 23:03.40 | JeffM2501 | it wasn't going to be input settings and stuff |
| 23:04.28 | JeffM2501 | people use difrent names on difrent servers? |
| 23:04.45 | uso_p | ah, ok, only stylish things :) |
| 23:05.19 | JeffM2501 | player name, password, prefered CTF team , and FFA color, and logo |
| 23:05.43 | JeffM2501 | funny how ideas get blown into things they arn't ;) |
| 23:06.16 | uso_p | team is interesting, as it would be nice for the match servers automatically to default to observer |
| 23:06.32 | JeffM2501 | the server should handle that |
| 23:06.41 | JeffM2501 | if your not part of the playing teams, put you in observer |
| 23:06.45 | uso_p | it can't |
| 23:06.45 | JeffM2501 | if you are, put you on the right team |
| 23:06.51 | JeffM2501 | sure it can |
| 23:06.55 | blast007 | uso_p: it doesn't right now, doesn't mean it can't |
| 23:07.14 | JeffM2501 | 2.1 can push a player to any team or observer |
| 23:07.20 | uso_p | how do it know if i am one of the playing people, even if i'm in a playing team |
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| 23:07.30 | JeffM2501 | global group ;) |
| 23:07.43 | JeffM2501 | and the prefered team is not observer |
| 23:07.49 | JeffM2501 | I want to turn observer into a checkbox |
| 23:07.50 | JeffM2501 | not a team |
| 23:07.53 | JeffM2501 | it's not intiutive |
| 23:08.17 | uso_p | hmm? if 2 player of the team are actually playing and one is observing how could the server know which one will observe? |
| 23:08.50 | JeffM2501 | the server would know that it's only a 2 man match ;) |
| 23:09.05 | JeffM2501 | then you ask the server for a substitution ;) |
| 23:09.08 | JeffM2501 | think big |
| 23:09.14 | JeffM2501 | think of the server as your ref |
| 23:09.34 | uso_p | from where? and even the 2 which are playing may not the first 2 which join |
| 23:09.38 | JeffM2501 | and also I'm just talking default team color, NOT OBSERVER |
| 23:09.50 | JeffM2501 | yeah you coudl start there, then use the match interface to have it change |
| 23:10.16 | uso_p | was only an idea ... |
| 23:10.19 | JeffM2501 | for real matches the server should know a lot more about what happens, how else is it going to enforce the game ;) |
| 23:10.23 | JeffM2501 | and report the scored |
| 23:11.24 | JeffM2501 | my final vision is that you go to a server, decide to play a match, give the server a match command with how many players and what teams, then it resets it all, picks the players, puts the rest in observer |
| 23:11.30 | uso_p | there are not only official matches, so all the theory will not work there ;) |
| 23:11.52 | JeffM2501 | then the players shuffle or substiute, when both teams are ready, they say game on, and the game strts :) |
| 23:12.05 | DTRemenak | now that's a nice vision :) |
| 23:12.06 | JeffM2501 | that could be one of the match paramaters, a "practice" |
| 23:12.14 | uso_p | yeah :) |
| 23:12.22 | JeffM2501 | practices are run like regular ones but not reported |
| 23:12.36 | JeffM2501 | then the server puts anyone who joins after that into observer |
| 23:12.53 | JeffM2501 | if a team player drops for more then N seconds, an observer on there team is subed in |
| 23:12.54 | uso_p | nice in theory, but most of the matches are funmatches with mixed teams |
| 23:12.59 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 23:13.05 | DTRemenak | mixed teams would be the hard part |
| 23:13.12 | JeffM2501 | well then maybe a long form with the IDs of new temp teams |
| 23:13.24 | DTRemenak | I'd like to see a command by which I can ask an observer to substitue for me, and the server would swap us |
| 23:13.29 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 23:13.34 | JeffM2501 | and keep the scores :) |
| 23:13.38 | DTRemenak | sure :) |
| 23:13.40 | JeffM2501 | that's the way subspace did it |
| 23:13.51 | JeffM2501 | when a game was on, it was JUST the players in the game part |
| 23:14.00 | JeffM2501 | and you could sub in/out N times |
| 23:14.16 | uso_p | lol, gives one hour for declaring the match and half an hour playing :) |
| 23:14.25 | JeffM2501 | not if it has a nice interface |
| 23:14.38 | JeffM2501 | like built into the game UI |
| 23:14.59 | JeffM2501 | hell make the default just be the current teams |
| 23:15.04 | JeffM2501 | then lock it from there |
| 23:15.23 | JeffM2501 | then when it's over ( ether time or score limit ) |
| 23:15.31 | uso_p | DTRemenak: good idea, bound to a key with scrolling to players |
| 23:15.39 | JeffM2501 | the server clears the scores and returns to free play |
| 23:15.39 | uso_p | *trough |
| 23:16.18 | JeffM2501 | heck it woudn't even be that hard to make games pop into private "rooms" |
| 23:16.28 | JeffM2501 | instances of the map that don't intereact with each other |
| 23:16.40 | JeffM2501 | just add a channel ID to the player record |
| 23:17.02 | JeffM2501 | then you could take your match to a private room and then return when done :) |
| 23:17.30 | DTRemenak | that's spooky |
| 23:17.36 | DTRemenak | you're right, it wouldn't be hard |
| 23:17.37 | JeffM2501 | not really |
| 23:17.37 | uso_p | sounds more like bzflag 3.0 :) |
| 23:17.44 | JeffM2501 | uso_p, why? |
| 23:17.48 | DTRemenak | would be really different though |
| 23:18.02 | JeffM2501 | diffrent is not always bad ;) |
| 23:18.02 | uso_p | lot of changes |
| 23:18.05 | JeffM2501 | not really |
| 23:18.15 | JeffM2501 | just expansions of the limited functions we have now |
| 23:18.19 | DTRemenak | I didn't say it was bad, just spooky |
| 23:18.26 | DTRemenak | would need a pretty major server cleanup first |
| 23:18.40 | DTRemenak | I'm not sure what it would actually gain for us |
| 23:18.46 | JeffM2501 | probably not much |
| 23:19.02 | JeffM2501 | if we had BIG servers then it could help |
| 23:19.07 | JeffM2501 | but we have lots of little servers |
| 23:19.15 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 23:19.28 | JeffM2501 | the server running the match isn't that hard, just need some more hooks |
| 23:19.38 | JeffM2501 | and defining what the default logic is |
| 23:19.50 | DTRemenak | yup. that's a good idea in almost every respect. |
| 23:19.55 | JeffM2501 | then some API hooks to let the plugins overide the defaults |
| 23:20.25 | DTRemenak | I wouldn't bother with default logic. Just have different plugins for each league, or let them distribute their own based on a sample |
| 23:20.35 | JeffM2501 | With perms a leauge could then setup players are "refs" that have controll access to the match params |
| 23:20.42 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 23:20.53 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, ok then just some logic for the starter plugin :) |
| 23:21.06 | DTRemenak | yeah. you'd want a really slick sample/starter plugin |
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| 23:21.11 | JeffM2501 | and a standardised interface/messges |
| 23:21.14 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 23:21.41 | JeffM2501 | came up with an idea for a distributed testing system today :) |
| 23:21.54 | DTRemenak | really |
| 23:21.55 | spldart | Dont' worry cuz my visions aint' blurry |
| 23:22.06 | JeffM2501 | if all works out, you can write it :) |
| 23:22.27 | uso_p | don't over organize it, spontaneous crazy 10 vs 10 matches are one of the greates fun :) |
| 23:22.51 | JeffM2501 | uso_p, sure, that woudl be just defnining a pickup match using the current team layout |
| 23:23.03 | JeffM2501 | so you just say "gimme a pickyp match till 10 points" |
| 23:23.08 | JeffM2501 | then bam.. game on |
| 23:23.29 | JeffM2501 | it's all about smart defaults |
| 23:23.46 | uso_p | yup |
| 23:23.53 | JeffM2501 | and when the match is over, it dosn't restart the server ;) |
| 23:24.15 | JeffM2501 | server restarts to reset the game or change map are lame |
| 23:24.28 | JeffM2501 | cus you can't tell the diff beteen that and a crash |
| 23:24.40 | JeffM2501 | "did the map reset? or did it just puke?" |
| 23:24.44 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@2002:45a6:86ae:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 23:24.44 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 23:26.12 | uso_p | that would be nice, even the need of a rejoin before a match starts is not much fun |
| 23:26.21 | JeffM2501 | actualy if it's done plugin based, you could have more then one plugin loaded for each type of match |
| 23:26.49 | JeffM2501 | yeah, right now the server can send everyone to observer, sort the teams up and then just spawn them after reseting the scores. |
| 23:26.55 | JeffM2501 | so you all start on a clean field |
| 23:27.09 | JeffM2501 | and after all the shots die |
| 23:27.22 | JeffM2501 | still have to do the limbo message |
| 23:28.00 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 23:28.11 | uso_p | protocol? |
| 23:28.19 | JeffM2501 | oh no that'll be further along |
| 23:28.31 | JeffM2501 | the limbo message wasn't that easy, tried it once, it busted a lot |
| 23:28.50 | DTRemenak | uso_p: you might be smelling it from the wrong person :) |
| 23:29.02 | uso_p | hehe |
| 23:29.31 | JeffM2501 | what good are proto nubmers if we don't use em :) |
| 23:29.42 | DTRemenak | that's right! |
| 23:30.01 | DTRemenak | It'll be years before we run into conflicts |
| 23:30.13 | DTRemenak | may as well use 'em up :) |
| 23:30.30 | JeffM2501 | and we can just change to a new list server at any time ;) |
| 23:30.35 | Gnurdux | and arne't they strings? they don't have to be numbers, do they? |
| 23:30.44 | JeffM2501 | they do have to be numbers |
| 23:30.47 | DTRemenak | they've gotta be numbers right now |
| 23:30.48 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=TD-Linux@24-159-197-101.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 23:30.52 | DTRemenak | we can change that though |
| 23:30.55 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 23:31.01 | JeffM2501 | list change |
| 23:31.15 | JeffM2501 | probalby should allow something other then BZFS as well |
| 23:31.42 | DTRemenak | but really, we have plenty available. just have to skip the range from 1500-2000 or so |
| 23:31.54 | JeffM2501 | for what 1.10? |
| 23:32.14 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 23:32.17 | DTRemenak | and older |
| 23:32.25 | JeffM2501 | older then 1.10 uses another list |
| 23:32.36 | DTRemenak | proto numbers get used on connect also |
| 23:32.53 | DTRemenak | they should really be completely unique |
| 23:33.02 | JeffM2501 | if somone tries to connect bzflag version 5.7 to 1.7e5, they get what they deserve ;) |
| 23:33.09 | DTRemenak | haha |
| 23:33.30 | JeffM2501 | and by that time, if we are still using the same networking system........ something is wrong with us |
| 23:33.34 | *** join/#bzflag CBG` (n=CBG@cpc4-stme1-0-0-cust103.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 23:33.39 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (n=QB@adsl-33-221-69.lft.bellsouth.net) |
| 23:33.42 | DTRemenak | we will be, just you wait and see :) |
| 23:33.52 | JeffM2501 | don't make me put raknet in ;) |
| 23:34.23 | JeffM2501 | network shared classes :) |
| 23:35.23 | JeffM2501 | UDP or TCP? |
| 23:35.26 | DTRemenak | tcp |
| 23:35.31 | JeffM2501 | 1.5ish I think |
| 23:35.34 | DTRemenak | k? |
| 23:35.35 | JeffM2501 | 1.5k |
| 23:35.36 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 23:36.00 | DTRemenak | what happens if I exceed it? |
| 23:36.12 | JeffM2501 | TCP will put it into another packet IIRC |
| 23:36.20 | JeffM2501 | and wait and recombine |
| 23:36.22 | DTRemenak | cool, that'd be nice |
| 23:36.29 | JeffM2501 | it's better to do it youself tho |
| 23:37.03 | DTRemenak | probably shouldn't be that big anyway |
| 23:37.21 | JeffM2501 | raknet would let you compress it ;) |
| 23:37.28 | DTRemenak | I can compress it anyway |
| 23:37.31 | DTRemenak | zlib ftw |
| 23:37.41 | JeffM2501 | or just have 2 instances of a class that magicaly get synced |
| 23:37.50 | DTRemenak | that'd make this easier |
| 23:38.06 | JeffM2501 | it's prety slick in what it does |
| 23:38.57 | JeffM2501 | all auto resizeing data pack/unpack too |
| 23:39.07 | JBdiGriz | Some TCP implementations will let you compress on the fly |
| 23:39.08 | JeffM2501 | just shove stuff in, the stream will take care of itself |
| 23:41.21 | DTRemenak | I'm fine with compressing it myself, JBdiGriz. we have everything set up for it anyway. |
| 23:43.09 | JBdiGriz | and here I thought you were an object oriented type who liked to compartmentalize these things. |
| 23:44.32 | DTRemenak | oo makes more sense with a random-access medium. networks are not. |
| 23:46.14 | *** join/#bzflag ryanakca (n=ryan@unaffiliated/ryanakca) |
| 23:46.48 | ryanakca | how long does the general "make" of bzflag 2.0.8 take? |
| 23:46.59 | L4m3r | depends on your system |
| 23:47.13 | L4m3r | if you're on a slow machine, it may take a while |
| 23:47.37 | ryanakca | methinks I'm on a quasi good machine... |
| 23:47.41 | ryanakca | Sysinfo for 'rkavanagh': Linux 2.6.15-26-686 running KDE 3.5.3, CPU: Pentium III (Coppermine) at 996 MHz (1995 bogomips), HD: 26/187GB, RAM: 348/375MB, 180 proc's, 1.3d up |
| 23:48.18 | DTRemenak | it'll take a while |
| 23:48.33 | ryanakca | lol |
| 23:48.48 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501: will v-sync do any good if the framerate is lower than the refresh rate? |
| 23:48.48 | DTRemenak | be patient, and this too shall pass :) |
| 23:49.33 | ryanakca | DTRemenak: hmmm... "patience is a virtue"... hmmm... guess I don't have that one :) |
| 23:49.38 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 23:49.49 | ryanakca | I'll go and play 2.0.6... since it's all ubuntu packaged |
| 23:49.57 | Gnurdux | ryanakca, it should be less than 2 hours definitely |
| 23:50.00 | DTRemenak | or do nice -n 19 make, and do something in the foreground while it's building :) |
| 23:50.19 | Gnurdux | well.. maybe not if your building the client too |
| 23:50.37 | L4m3r | 2 hours?! :o |
| 23:50.59 | L4m3r | it took, like, half an hour on my AMD 2000+ machine |
| 23:51.13 | Gnurdux | L4m3r, definitely less |
| 23:51.25 | Gnurdux | and he's on 1 ghz |
| 23:51.25 | ryanakca | building client :) |
| 23:51.28 | DTRemenak | takes less than 20 minutes on my 1700 |
| 23:51.45 | L4m3r | yes, but how far have you overclocked your 1700? :P |
| 23:51.47 | DTRemenak | course just the server takes about half an hour even with -j2 on my dualie |
| 23:51.51 | Gnurdux | server seems like it takes 20 here, but its probably really like 10 |
| 23:51.54 | DTRemenak | it's stock |
| 23:51.59 | L4m3r | stock?! |
| 23:52.05 | L4m3r | but... it's a 1700! |
| 23:52.14 | DTRemenak | palomino core |
| 23:52.19 | L4m3r | oh... ew |
| 23:52.21 | ryanakca | ok... I'm getting scared :) |
| 23:52.23 | L4m3r | bummer :( |
| 23:52.25 | DTRemenak | could bump it up some, but not mcuh |
| 23:52.40 | L4m3r | my 2000 is probably a polomino too |
| 23:52.44 | L4m3r | palomino* |
| 23:52.58 | L4m3r | but I haven't bothered to try |
| 23:53.09 | L4m3r | that box is unstable enough |
| 23:53.22 | DTRemenak | yeah, when I can get a faster proc for $25, why should I try to overclock it... |
| 23:53.28 | L4m3r | lol |
| 23:53.44 | L4m3r | well, back in its heyday it was the one to have |
| 23:53.54 | L4m3r | referred to as "The overclocking animal" |
| 23:54.11 | DTRemenak | t-bred 1700s were |
| 23:54.15 | L4m3r | yeah |
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| 23:54.42 | L4m3r | for a while, at the tail end of their run, the prices for tbred 1700s actually went up a bit |
| 23:54.45 | DTRemenak | actually come to think of it I think I did upgrade. I think it's a 2000 t-bred a |
| 23:54.52 | L4m3r | heh |
| 23:54.56 | DTRemenak | can't even tell the difference :) |
| 23:55.27 | DTRemenak | 2gb of ddr made a huge difference from my 512mb of sdram though |
| 23:55.36 | DTRemenak | need a new machine |
| 23:56.48 | ryanakca | DTRemenak: I need a new machine... :) |
| 23:56.57 | DTRemenak | ryanakca: you do indeed :) |
| 23:58.09 | ryanakca | my video card isn't the greatest... but it's better than the i810 that came with my 300$ machine :) |
| 23:58.19 | DTRemenak | ryanakca: by my implication string up there, you need a better job ;) |
| 23:58.34 | ryanakca | DTRemenak: I don't have a job :) |
| 23:58.42 | DTRemenak | well then you certainly need a better one :) |
| 23:58.45 | CBG` | then, you need a job. |
| 23:58.54 | ryanakca | my annual income = 520$ CAD a month... and it's allouance :) |
| 23:59.05 | ryanakca | CBG`: Yes... |
| 23:59.08 | ryanakca | I do |
| 23:59.39 | CBG` | I get L4 a month from parents and grand parents. Thats under $10 USD. |
| 23:59.54 | DTRemenak | that is a truly huge allowance, ryanakca |
| 23:59.59 | L4m3r | yeah, I'm worth about $7 |