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| 00:11.56 | *** join/#bzflag A_Heart_Attack (n=bzhearta@ool-44c748c9.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 00:20.54 | Mr_Molez | meno-promiscuous ping |
| 00:20.57 | Mr_Molez | menotume: ping |
| 00:27.48 | *** join/#bzflag A-Delusion (n=A-Delusi@pool-151-201-116-35.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:30.11 | spldart | OK!... I'm ready to do a pre-release sneak peak at my new map. If you see something I should tweak please let me know 8-D... Don't expect to much it's only my second map evar! spldart.opencombat.net:5156 It's no -publicaddr yet so it will only be you guys. |
| 00:32.49 | A_Heart_Attack | im going on it now |
| 00:34.23 | A_Heart_Attack | wow |
| 00:34.25 | A_Heart_Attack | very nice |
| 00:35.11 | spldart | thanks |
| 00:35.23 | spldart | let me know if you see something you think I should address |
| 00:35.29 | A_Heart_Attack | hmm |
| 00:35.35 | A_Heart_Attack | its a little open below the bases |
| 00:35.45 | spldart | some superflags are grouped in zones |
| 00:35.45 | A_Heart_Attack | maybe some pyramids and boxes in the air |
| 00:35.48 | spldart | others are not |
| 00:35.50 | A_Heart_Attack | yes i know |
| 00:35.52 | spldart | ah |
| 00:35.55 | spldart | good idea |
| 00:35.57 | A_Heart_Attack | other than that its very good |
| 00:36.28 | spldart | mabye some mini towers of some sort around the base towers? |
| 00:37.52 | spldart | And... Thanks again :) Anyone else have any input :) I'm open to suggestions |
| 00:39.46 | inchworm | the mirror floor is pretty, but a little distracting maybe? Also give the map a dark feel |
| 00:39.52 | A-Delusion | you need a disk the mac can boot from |
| 00:40.19 | A-Delusion | woop, there's my once a week wrong channel.. |
| 00:40.37 | spldart | lol |
| 00:40.47 | inchworm | not a bad map |
| 00:41.12 | spldart | maybe I can turn off the reflection but keep the black? |
| 00:41.21 | A_Heart_Attack | hmm |
| 00:41.26 | A_Heart_Attack | set the sky color to black |
| 00:41.28 | A_Heart_Attack | and to |
| 00:41.30 | A_Heart_Attack | *do |
| 00:41.50 | A_Heart_Attack | set _mirror "black 0" |
| 00:41.56 | A_Heart_Attack | with a / infront of it |
| 00:42.01 | inchworm | if you want a dark map, it's fine and people like be can maybe turn off mirror on our clients |
| 00:42.07 | inchworm | s/be/me |
| 00:42.12 | spldart | hrm |
| 00:42.53 | A_Heart_Attack | ah yes inchsworm has a good point |
| 00:43.53 | A_Heart_Attack | *inchworm |
| 00:44.37 | inchworm | it's all good |
| 00:45.38 | A_Heart_Attack | lol |
| 00:46.15 | spldart | I set sky to black out of curiousity ... it does help with the disorienting reflections |
| 00:46.27 | A_Heart_Attack | kk |
| 00:46.32 | A_Heart_Attack | now |
| 00:46.33 | L4m3r | lol |
| 00:46.37 | A_Heart_Attack | set _mirror "black 0" |
| 00:46.48 | A_Heart_Attack | oh, hey l4m3r |
| 00:46.53 | A_Heart_Attack | *L4M3R |
| 00:46.58 | L4m3r | perfect mirror is the most disorienting |
| 00:47.06 | A_Heart_Attack | lol |
| 00:47.07 | A_Heart_Attack | i like it |
| 00:47.18 | L4m3r | yeah, usually looks the best also |
| 01:03.18 | wegstar_away | how does the bzflag server/client "pack"/"unpack" data and send it along? |
| 01:05.22 | *** join/#bzflag deprecated (n=deprecat@c-24-18-18-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
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| 01:19.36 | JeffM2501 | with the net pack and unpack and send functions |
| 01:24.08 | wegstar_away | how do those functions work? |
| 01:24.19 | JeffM2501 | depends what you want to do |
| 01:24.27 | JeffM2501 | what are you trying to do? |
| 01:24.43 | wegstar_away | get a struct sent via sockets |
| 01:24.56 | wegstar_away | I beliebe bz sends classes via sockets? |
| 01:25.00 | wegstar_away | believe* |
| 01:25.09 | JeffM2501 | no not at all |
| 01:25.16 | wegstar_away | oh |
| 01:25.17 | JeffM2501 | you pack each variable |
| 01:25.23 | JeffM2501 | in a specific order |
| 01:25.26 | JeffM2501 | send that |
| 01:25.29 | wegstar_away | ah |
| 01:25.31 | JeffM2501 | then unpack each one and set it in a struct |
| 01:25.38 | JeffM2501 | sockets just sents data |
| 01:25.39 | wegstar_away | oh |
| 01:25.41 | JeffM2501 | raw data |
| 01:25.55 | wegstar_away | how are the variables packed |
| 01:25.59 | wegstar_away | ? |
| 01:26.06 | JeffM2501 | with the nbopack functions |
| 01:26.09 | JeffM2501 | one for each type |
| 01:26.17 | JeffM2501 | it will put them in network byte order |
| 01:26.43 | wegstar_away | ok |
| 01:27.23 | JeffM2501 | nboPackInt |
| 01:27.27 | JeffM2501 | they are all in pack.h |
| 01:27.34 | wegstar_away | ok.. thanks |
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| 01:28.39 | JeffM2501 | now if you want to send it from server to client or client to server, you allso need to add a new message for that |
| 01:28.44 | JeffM2501 | so they know what the data is |
| 01:28.56 | wegstar_away | I got all that confused with struct because in python the functions to unpack and pack data are in the "struct" module.. |
| 01:28.59 | wegstar_away | oh |
| 01:29.07 | wegstar_away | a header |
| 01:29.17 | JeffM2501 | in python your using a higher level thing |
| 01:29.21 | wegstar_away | yep |
| 01:33.17 | JeffM2501 | what does the class do that you want to send? |
| 01:33.32 | wegstar_away | just to hold some data |
| 01:33.56 | JeffM2501 | does the client need to know when it gets it? |
| 01:34.12 | JeffM2501 | if it's just static data, or rarely chaning data, then just use bzdb vars |
| 01:34.43 | wegstar_away | oh, this is for something else... I'm just trying to use the same network thingy bzflag uses ;) |
| 01:34.51 | JeffM2501 | good god why? |
| 01:34.57 | JeffM2501 | dude enet or raknet |
| 01:35.00 | JeffM2501 | totaly better |
| 01:35.04 | JeffM2501 | raknet can even send classes |
| 01:35.07 | wegstar_away | oh |
| 01:35.13 | wegstar_away | ok.. |
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| 01:54.54 | I_Died_Once | I'm in love with a stripperrrrrrr |
| 01:55.06 | I_Died_Once | She ridin' she rollin; |
| 01:55.16 | I_Died_Once | She's climbin' that pole and.... |
| 01:55.38 | inchworm | um...wrong window i think |
| 01:55.44 | wegstar_away | JeffM2501: so raknet is basically UDP++, good for stuff that requires a large number of quick streaming packets? |
| 01:56.19 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 01:56.22 | wegstar_away | ok |
| 01:56.30 | Gnurdux | wegstar_away, bzflag DOESNT use a network thingy |
| 01:56.31 | JeffM2501 | it'll do it's own relyable stuff if you need be |
| 01:56.39 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, he's not talking about bzflag |
| 01:56.52 | Gnurdux | i know <wegstar_away> oh, this is for something else... I'm just trying to use the same network thingy bzflag uses ;) |
| 01:57.07 | Gnurdux | wegstar_away, whatcha making? another python MUD? |
| 01:57.13 | JeffM2501 | raknet also has high level pack/unpack stuff, as well are remote procedure calls and network class stuff |
| 01:57.22 | wegstar_away | hmm |
| 01:57.57 | wegstar_away | Gnurdux: something with allegro.. a Scorched Earth thingy, call it a Gunbound clone if you want... |
| 01:58.13 | inchworm | sounds cool |
| 01:58.29 | inchworm | wegstar_away: are you aware of a full 3d scorched earth project already out? |
| 01:58.48 | JeffM2501 | allegro is a 2d game lib ;) |
| 01:59.08 | inchworm | umm...yah |
| 01:59.31 | wegstar_away | inchworm: I know, played it |
| 01:59.41 | JeffM2501 | not all things translate to 3d well |
| 01:59.45 | wegstar_away | Jeffm2501: there's allegrogl ;) |
| 02:00.03 | wegstar_away | anyway, something gunbound-like |
| 02:00.12 | wegstar_away | that's 2d |
| 02:00.28 | JeffM2501 | gl does 2d and 3d |
| 02:00.43 | JeffM2501 | even 1d and 4d ;) |
| 02:00.49 | wegstar_away | ;) |
| 02:01.02 | inchworm | ! |
| 02:05.36 | JeffM2501 | they just use GL cus it's a nice way to pick up cross plat hardware acceleration |
| 02:05.43 | JeffM2501 | gl is decent at compositing |
| 02:09.54 | wegstar_away | o |
| 02:12.59 | *** join/#bzflag flizzoyd83 (n=flizzoyd@c-69-246-170-24.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 02:14.43 | flizzoyd83 | Could someone give me some insight as to what kind of a role the bzflag server plays in the game? Does it make any actual gameplay decisions such as detecting if a player is killed, if a player picked up a flag, etc... |
| 02:15.21 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 02:15.24 | JeffM2501 | not yet |
| 02:15.25 | cosmos | the source code will tell you.... |
| 02:15.37 | inchworm | young padawan..let the source guide you |
| 02:15.41 | JeffM2501 | the client does most of the gameplay |
| 02:15.52 | JeffM2501 | we would like to have most of it moved to the server for 2.2 |
| 02:16.05 | redsoxfan90 | would that be better jeff? |
| 02:16.09 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 02:16.10 | cosmos | and spoil the fun for cheaters?! |
| 02:16.12 | flizzoyd83 | Why do you plan on that? To prevent cheating? |
| 02:16.17 | JeffM2501 | that is one reason |
| 02:16.40 | cosmos | they just want to drive up cpu usage on the servers! ;) |
| 02:16.40 | JeffM2501 | once it's on the server it also opens up a lot more the plugins and mods can do with out requiring client mods |
| 02:16.51 | JeffM2501 | it won't be that much |
| 02:16.55 | cosmos | i know |
| 02:17.08 | cosmos | the gains against cheating are worth any increase |
| 02:17.12 | cosmos | and the plugins too |
| 02:17.17 | JeffM2501 | if you even notice an increase |
| 02:17.24 | flizzoyd83 | Oh, so you wouldn't do anything like movement validation. |
| 02:17.32 | cosmos | on my 50mhz sparc i will! |
| 02:17.40 | JeffM2501 | we would like to validate all player input |
| 02:17.58 | JeffM2501 | like any real internet game would |
| 02:19.24 | flizzoyd83 | Have you started planning for a server with that big of a role? |
| 02:19.45 | JeffM2501 | we have a good idea of what to do |
| 02:19.48 | JeffM2501 | it's not THAT big |
| 02:20.02 | JeffM2501 | it's what 99% of the other internet games out there do |
| 02:20.07 | JeffM2501 | so it's not rocket science |
| 02:20.15 | JeffM2501 | it's just not going to be a simple task, it's very invasive |
| 02:21.00 | flizzoyd83 | I didnt think that many FPS type games did server validation |
| 02:22.17 | JeffM2501 | are you kidding |
| 02:22.19 | JeffM2501 | they all do :) |
| 02:22.25 | JeffM2501 | started with quake 1 |
| 02:22.31 | JeffM2501 | the entire game state is on the server |
| 02:22.42 | JeffM2501 | the client is just a dumb terminal that can do some lag comp and prediction |
| 02:23.27 | flizzoyd83 | Well do they detect hits on the server too? |
| 02:23.56 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 02:24.06 | JeffM2501 | the client dosnt' even know when it dies, it's just told "dude you died" |
| 02:24.44 | JeffM2501 | any game that dosn't is just acking to be cheated all to hell |
| 02:24.53 | JeffM2501 | first rule of internet game programing "never trust the client" |
| 02:25.22 | flizzoyd83 | It just seems like a waste not to utilize the client. |
| 02:25.32 | A-Delusion | whats the code for setting skycolor using numbers? /set _skyColor then three numbers? I see a server that says it's skycolor is cadetblue4 |
| 02:25.34 | flizzoyd83 | Aside from the obvious cheating implications. |
| 02:25.35 | JeffM2501 | oh the client does it too |
| 02:25.39 | JeffM2501 | it has to |
| 02:25.44 | JeffM2501 | to make the game seem laggy |
| 02:25.47 | JeffM2501 | not seem laggy |
| 02:25.50 | JeffM2501 | so everyone has a state |
| 02:26.03 | JeffM2501 | just the server is the one that is right in case of a dispute |
| 02:26.21 | flizzoyd83 | Would it detect the hit at the client, then validate at the server? |
| 02:26.45 | JeffM2501 | both detect it, the client reacts, asuming it'll get verfication from the server |
| 02:26.57 | JeffM2501 | if it dosn't it has to reconcile with the server state |
| 02:27.18 | JeffM2501 | that way people that don't cheat get a clean game, those that go.well they get what the deserve |
| 02:27.19 | flizzoyd83 | That seems sensible. |
| 02:27.25 | JeffM2501 | there are many articles on it |
| 02:27.36 | JeffM2501 | and many difrent ways to do it |
| 02:28.04 | wegstar_away | "the server should check everything that affects the game state, basically. Never trust a client. OR a Klingon" - gnolam |
| 02:29.29 | flizzoyd83 | It seems like it would be easier to enforce anti-cheating in a game like WOW and Punkbuster where a player has an account they pay for. |
| 02:29.31 | JeffM2501 | the problem with using client side resources to compute stuff is that clients have the longest path to other clients |
| 02:29.42 | JeffM2501 | the server has the shortest |
| 02:29.57 | JeffM2501 | people cheat in wow |
| 02:30.01 | JeffM2501 | people cheat thru punkbuster |
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| 02:30.38 | flizzoyd83 | Do you have any sites describing punkbuster cheats? |
| 02:30.42 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 02:30.48 | JeffM2501 | we don't condone cheating in any game |
| 02:31.02 | inchworm | they aren't apperently that hard to find...i've heard of more than on in America's Army |
| 02:31.05 | wegstar_away | lan56: have you created bzfs.a? ;) |
| 02:31.53 | JeffM2501 | punkbuster just checks for paterns |
| 02:32.00 | JeffM2501 | to see if someone is "too good" |
| 02:32.08 | JeffM2501 | it still works on TOP of an authortive server |
| 02:32.14 | JeffM2501 | since it needs to know where somone is suposed to be |
| 02:32.26 | JeffM2501 | punkbuster is not magic |
| 02:32.55 | JeffM2501 | it's primary job is to find bots and other subtle cheats |
| 02:33.23 | flizzoyd83 | like wall cheats? |
| 02:33.25 | lan56 | wegstar_away, no I actually haven't even remembered it till now :( |
| 02:33.39 | JeffM2501 | I don't know the term |
| 02:33.42 | JeffM2501 | but whatever |
| 02:33.50 | JeffM2501 | what is your big interest in cheating? |
| 02:34.55 | wegstar_away | lan56: oh |
| 02:35.02 | flizzoyd83 | I'm writing a paper right now on a MMOG architecture and in it we concede that current cheat detection mechanisms are not sufficient for it. |
| 02:35.50 | JeffM2501 | MMOS are totaly server based |
| 02:35.54 | JeffM2501 | they check every input |
| 02:36.25 | flizzoyd83 | I'm not really nuts about the paper or the architecture, but I'm getting paid and a degree for it. |
| 02:36.27 | JeffM2501 | most cheats are bug exploits or automation of valid inputs |
| 02:36.41 | lan56 | you get paid to write assignments? |
| 02:36.44 | lan56 | :\ |
| 02:36.46 | JeffM2501 | how are you doing your research? |
| 02:38.04 | flizzoyd83 | We're using game code for a simple MMO I found in a prima book. |
| 02:38.25 | flizzoyd83 | I know how bad that sounds. |
| 02:38.25 | JeffM2501 | a book engine |
| 02:38.30 | JeffM2501 | yeah those are gonna suck |
| 02:38.36 | JeffM2501 | you should look at neverax |
| 02:38.41 | JeffM2501 | it's closer to a real engine |
| 02:39.04 | JeffM2501 | and then read all the stuff on the subject at gamasurta |
| 02:39.40 | flizzoyd83 | I've looked at most of the MMO stuff on gamasutra. |
| 02:39.58 | JeffM2501 | start with the FPS stuff |
| 02:40.03 | JeffM2501 | cus that is the core of all the games |
| 02:40.04 | flizzoyd83 | We're working with some guys from bell labs, but they're mostly "no" men |
| 02:40.13 | JeffM2501 | then move onto the mmo stuff |
| 02:40.43 | JeffM2501 | bzflag was writen as a lan game |
| 02:40.56 | JeffM2501 | so it's based on client trust |
| 02:41.01 | JeffM2501 | hence why it's cheated so much |
| 02:41.27 | flizzoyd83 | Yeah, that's why I moved them away from looking towards bzflag for all their research |
| 02:41.52 | flizzoyd83 | The paper's pretty much already written. Ideally you'll be able to read (and bash) it in November on ACM. |
| 02:44.07 | flizzoyd83 | Is neverax open source? |
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| 02:44.47 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 02:45.16 | JeffM2501 | it's the system that was made for the game saga of ryzom |
| 02:45.20 | JeffM2501 | a comerical MMO |
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| 03:10.07 | spldart | >those who helped check out my almost finished world... Does this help the 'barren region around the foot of the tower? http://spldart.opencombat.net:92/basehalo.png |
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| 03:26.12 | spldart | Or this http://spldart.opencombat.net:92/basehalos.png |
| 03:32.13 | spldart | Can anyone direct me to a reference for all the _set variables for a world? |
| 03:32.39 | redsoxfan90 | i think there is something on bzflag.org |
| 03:32.40 | redsoxfan90 | wiki |
| 03:32.44 | redsoxfan90 | not 100% sure though. |
| 03:33.20 | JeffM2501 | type in /set and look ;) |
| 03:33.22 | spldart | been looking.. I'll check wiki again |
| 03:33.23 | JeffM2501 | it lists them all |
| 03:33.35 | spldart | Yeah but I was hoping to get more details on each |
| 03:33.50 | spldart | without having to trial and error each and every one ;) |
| 03:33.53 | JeffM2501 | doubtfull |
| 03:33.59 | spldart | :( |
| 03:34.10 | spldart | is there a set for laser range? |
| 03:34.22 | spldart | I need to shorten it without effecting regular shots |
| 03:34.39 | JeffM2501 | it's a lazer mod IIRC |
| 03:34.41 | JeffM2501 | gotta go |
| 03:34.45 | spldart | cyah |
| 03:35.03 | redsoxfan90 | spldart |
| 03:35.06 | spldart | ? |
| 03:35.13 | redsoxfan90 | something like /set _laserAdLife |
| 03:35.16 | redsoxfan90 | i think |
| 03:35.25 | spldart | Oh... that's for range? |
| 03:35.28 | spldart | I'll try it |
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| 03:41.08 | spldart | oop... laserAdLife adds 'life' to the beam time :eek: |
| 03:41.54 | spldart | I'd hate to have to elinimate rico to reduce laser's ability cuz I'd like to keep shot ricoh |
| 03:41.55 | spldart | hrm |
| 03:45.58 | A-Delusion | people have had success with invisible, drivethrough, ricochet cages |
| 03:46.09 | A-Delusion | to bounce shots away |
| 03:46.22 | spldart | interesting |
| 03:47.13 | spldart | though I think laser is just to dominate in this map... I'm goin to drop it for now but I like that idea.. thanks I'll consider it :) |
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| 03:59.51 | spldart | goodnight |
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| 12:53.44 | Birdie | Manu: there? |
| 12:53.54 | brlcad | Manu: here? |
| 12:54.12 | Birdie | was a typo:) |
| 12:54.37 | brlcad | Manu: where? |
| 12:56.24 | gsnedders | Manu: anywhere? |
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| 13:03.56 | Manu | gsnedders: no :) |
| 13:04.30 | Manu | Birdie: what? |
| 13:04.51 | Manu | brlcad: good morning :) |
| 13:06.06 | Birdie | Manu: you are more or less responsible for viper so: some guy named "romulus" came to me yesterday, he got banned on viper by...(the same guy that banned that guy from 8 years old yesterday)..and he said "cause he tk"d him twice on a long time by accident. |
| 13:06.36 | Birdie | did you heard any more complaints about that cop/admin or not? (of course romulus can be lying to) |
| 13:07.01 | Birdie | i told him to send that admin a pm on bzbb, but as we heard yesterday that that admin aint that active on bzbb..it might take some time |
| 13:07.16 | Manu | Birdie: no complains |
| 13:08.01 | Birdie | i didnt want to unban him, with one side of the story..but ya |
| 13:08.18 | Manu | do you know romulus? |
| 13:08.32 | Manu | Birdie: you musn't unban other's bans |
| 13:08.33 | brlcad | Manu: buenos dias |
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| 13:08.46 | Birdie | i havent unbanned him |
| 13:08.53 | Manu | why? |
| 13:08.55 | Birdie | like i said, one side of the story..wouldnt be fair:) |
| 13:09.09 | Manu | but do you know/trust romulus? |
| 13:09.17 | Birdie | i dont know romulus, saw him once or twice..but dunno him |
| 13:09.36 | Manu | then why did you remove a ban you didn't made? |
| 13:09.49 | Birdie | i haven"t removed it |
| 13:09.50 | Manu | instead it.. as an admin first |
| 13:10.01 | Manu | ah... I missunderstood :) |
| 13:10.15 | Birdie | :) |
| 13:10.43 | Manu | I know Moto Unit, he is making a good work at Viper |
| 13:10.56 | Manu | but I'll ask him too |
| 13:11.00 | Birdie | thats why i came to you, maybe you knew romulus, or Moto Unit, to make a better judge about it |
| 13:11.36 | Manu | I guess don't know him |
| 13:13.59 | Manu | Birdie: only left 435 minutes for the ban |
| 13:16.28 | Birdie | ah, so it doesnt really mather |
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| 14:02.36 | A_Heart_Attack | ha ha |
| 14:02.57 | A_Heart_Attack | i got 2 plain, un toasted bagels and an iced-tea |
| 14:03.04 | A_Heart_Attack | thats my breakfast |
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| 15:15.02 | A-Delusion | Took me awhile, but I found the link I was looking for. http://web.njit.edu/~walsh/rgb.html |
| 15:15.17 | *** join/#bzflag cosmos (n=cosmos@tuxproof.bunker.hepcat.org) |
| 15:20.57 | spldart | That's a good link to have :-) |
| 15:23.13 | A-Delusion | you can set colors using ANY of the names there, me thinks |
| 15:23.45 | A-Delusion | not sure how it works in map files yet |
| 15:26.25 | spldart | I was thinking back to when I used to like to make web pages and would sometimes use a chart like that to get just the right hue |
| 15:27.05 | A-Delusion | Lemon Chiffom? Anyone? It's those names I was looking for. |
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| 15:40.25 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 15:47.27 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501) |
| 15:47.27 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
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| 15:55.27 | CBG | ~37/3 |
| 15:55.35 | ibot | 12.333333333333 |
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| 16:03.52 | menotume | A-Delusion, spldart: this is esaier ==> http://jemimap.freeshell.org/style/color/wheel.html |
| 16:03.53 | menotume | :) |
| 16:05.23 | spldart | ooooooooooOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooo 8-D |
| 16:05.25 | spldart | thanks |
| 16:05.58 | menotume | :) |
| 16:17.41 | A-Delusion | menotume, that is indeed nicer, but I also enjoy having the color names. Easier to remember. |
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| 17:24.56 | JeffM2501 | I built the damn TE off of a moded tree :( |
| 17:27.26 | ToughShooter | TE? |
| 17:27.48 | JeffM2501 | Tournament Edition |
| 17:28.31 | Mr_Molez | pfft |
| 17:29.04 | ToughShooter | heh, I think it's a bad idea to have a special tournament edition without huge mods in the source |
| 17:29.52 | Mr_Molez | ToughShooter: what makes you think that ? |
| 17:30.21 | ToughShooter | Well, there is a way to look at the protocol etc |
| 17:30.39 | Mr_Molez | so ? |
| 17:31.02 | JeffM2501 | if we make huge mods to the source, we don't need the TE :) |
| 17:31.11 | ToughShooter | heh |
| 17:31.24 | JeffM2501 | and part of these mods are to change the proto |
| 17:31.26 | JeffM2501 | so you can't see it |
| 17:31.38 | *** join/#bzflag trac_ (n=trac@dslb-088-073-076-047.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:31.52 | JeffM2501 | asuming I can get it to bloddy well work |
| 17:32.43 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: do u think its right to make the practice matches that have already been played official ? |
| 17:32.53 | JeffM2501 | that's up to you guys |
| 17:33.00 | JeffM2501 | do you all feel they were fair? |
| 17:33.03 | JeffM2501 | if so, why not |
| 17:33.08 | ToughShooter | There are tools which can be used for investigating the changes. It only makes sense if the binaries are given very late to the players |
| 17:33.20 | Mr_Molez | just seems weird they want a special client , but they are willing to count these |
| 17:33.27 | JeffM2501 | ToughShooter, yeah it's not crack proof, nothing is, the point is that it takes time |
| 17:33.45 | JeffM2501 | Mr_Molez, then that means that not everyone felt it was a fair set of games |
| 17:33.51 | trac_ | what league is it for? |
| 17:34.50 | JeffM2501 | the eventual plan is to also do a lot of independent state verification |
| 17:36.13 | ToughShooter | trac_: planet **** versus the "open" league tournament |
| 17:37.21 | Mr_Molez | k |
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| 17:43.54 | ATD_ | Mr_Molez: Planet MoFo is more than one person, we do not have a collective mind, (nor overpowering leader to make decisions) If some of our members don't trust OL for some reason and other (who played the matches) want them to count - then that's just the way it is |
| 17:44.40 | ATD_ | There was every indication during the games that they were official - including members of OL saying that they were official and no-one contering that isea |
| 17:44.44 | ATD_ | idea* |
| 17:45.45 | JeffM2501 | also I don't have a hard date when I'll have my stuff done, we don't even know if I can build all the needed bins |
| 17:46.10 | JeffM2501 | so if you want to keep going then there are probably going to be more games with out the new clients |
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| 18:39.30 | uso_w | is bzfsClientMessages.cxx used at all in the v2_0_branch? |
| 18:39.59 | *** join/#bzflag qsdfqsdfqsdf (n=smertens@cust200-172.dsl.versadsl.be) |
| 19:00.54 | I_Died_Once | It would be one thing if one league or another was clearlty ahead, but we're tied - so either way, if we count the matches or not, it's still fair cause no one is in the lead |
| 19:01.41 | I_Died_Once | OL won two matches, MoFo won two matches, and we tied on the HiX map.... |
| 19:01.59 | I_Died_Once | So count them or not, I'm cool either way |
| 19:02.14 | Mr_Molez | I_Died_Once: do u remember the exact scores ? |
| 19:02.17 | I_Died_Once | *if* one team was clearly in the lead, it'd be another situation completely |
| 19:02.22 | I_Died_Once | no I dontr |
| 19:02.45 | Mr_Molez | I_Died_Once: didn't you have any intention of putting the results on your match results ? |
| 19:03.05 | I_Died_Once | RPG, meteorite, and sometimes Delusion handle the site |
| 19:03.17 | I_Died_Once | I can post news and talk smack, but thats it as far as our site goes |
| 19:03.27 | Mr_Molez | yeh your good at that |
| 19:03.33 | I_Died_Once | world class |
| 19:03.41 | CBG | Mr_Molez: did you ever intend to put them on your site? |
| 19:03.46 | Mr_Molez | CBG: yeh |
| 19:03.48 | I_Died_Once | bzflag is by far my most tame venue |
| 19:04.22 | Mr_Molez | but i thought these last matches were only practice |
| 19:04.22 | CBG | haha... |
| 19:04.22 | Mr_Molez | so i didn't enter or write down the scores |
| 19:04.22 | CBG | NOBODY said that on the night. |
| 19:04.22 | CBG | NOBODY. |
| 19:04.22 | Mr_Molez | nobody said what ? |
| 19:04.24 | CBG | "practice" |
| 19:04.35 | Mr_Molez | well i thought it would go without sayign, seen as mofo asked for special clients |
| 19:04.37 | CBG | everyone who played would have sworn they were official |
| 19:04.54 | I_Died_Once | I'm of no opinion |
| 19:04.54 | CBG | only IDO asked for those, I didn't know till the next day. |
| 19:04.58 | I_Died_Once | count them.. don't |
| 19:05.14 | I_Died_Once | We had a talk while you werent around, CBG |
| 19:05.21 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (n=wizart@dslb-084-058-100-251.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:05.45 | CBG | same here, I just find it funny that the OL people are now insisting those matches were practice when they said absolutely NOTHING of the sort on the day, or before hand. |
| 19:05.58 | Mr_Molez | CBG: who has insisted ? |
| 19:05.58 | I_Died_Once | but the thing is, and I don't mean to start a war or arguement with this.... when you start dabbling in cleat clients, it tarnishes your rep, and nominally those you associate with's rep |
| 19:06.08 | Mr_Molez | i know nobody on ol that says they shouldn't be official |
| 19:06.11 | Mr_Molez | get your facts right, LIAR ! |
| 19:06.40 | CBG | [20:03:56] < Mr_Molez> i thought these last matches were only practice |
| 19:07.00 | Mr_Molez | CBG: how does that mean they should be nonofficial ? |
| 19:07.07 | Mr_Molez | it doesn't stop lieing |
| 19:07.16 | CBG | practice matches ARE official matches? lol |
| 19:07.21 | CBG | ~dict practice |
| 19:07.26 | JeffM2501 | wtf?!?! |
| 19:07.31 | Mr_Molez | CBG: what i said was i thought they were practice |
| 19:07.33 | brad | lol |
| 19:07.44 | Mr_Molez | try and read what i say, not what you want to read |
| 19:07.47 | JeffM2501 | how bout you all take it to your own channel |
| 19:08.14 | I_Died_Once | Yeah! What Jeff said! |
| 19:08.18 | Mr_Molez | totally |
| 19:08.21 | JeffM2501 | or at least #bzchat |
| 19:08.31 | brlcad | or just realize it's not worth arguing over |
| 19:08.45 | I_Died_Once | What learner said! |
| 19:08.47 | JeffM2501 | pffft like that would happen ;) |
| 19:08.50 | Mr_Molez | yeh totally ! |
| 19:09.16 | I_Died_Once | Like I said before, it'd be a whole different ball of wax is one team or another was in the lead, but its tied, so it matters not |
| 19:09.26 | I_Died_Once | hold a poll and be done with it |
| 19:09.38 | JeffM2501 | and like I said, why don't you take it outa here ;) |
| 19:09.43 | Mr_Molez | yeh ! |
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| 19:21.27 | *** join/#bzflag A_Heart_Attack (n=bzhearta@ool-44c748c9.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 19:21.29 | ToughShooter | JeffM2501: Umm, how to make a diff file? Is cd into checkout dir and then cvs diff -u correct? |
| 19:21.40 | JeffM2501 | I don't do command line cvs |
| 19:21.42 | JeffM2501 | so I don't know |
| 19:21.55 | JeffM2501 | I right click in the dir and say "make patch" and it just happens |
| 19:22.04 | JeffM2501 | it's a beautiful thing |
| 19:23.11 | ToughShooter | cvs diff -u is beatiful except it does not create patches that can be applied |
| 19:23.26 | ToughShooter | but I can apply such patches from others |
| 19:23.31 | JeffM2501 | then get a tool tht dosn't suck ;) |
| 19:23.36 | JeffM2501 | honestly I don't know |
| 19:23.56 | JeffM2501 | I have never done much with patches, brlcad, DTRemenak , or trepan would be the main people to try and ask |
| 19:24.17 | DTRemenak | yess, cvs diff -u |
| 19:24.35 | DTRemenak | they can be applied. use patch -p0 < this.diff |
| 19:26.12 | ToughShooter | It says something like Hunk failed at ... |
| 19:28.28 | DTRemenak | ToughShooter: you can't apply it to the same tree you diffed it from...it doesn't remove the changes |
| 19:30.14 | ToughShooter | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/84255 |
| 19:30.25 | ToughShooter | I tried to apply the patch to a fresh checkout |
| 19:30.49 | DTRemenak | your checkouts are not the same branch, perhaps? |
| 19:31.03 | ToughShooter | both are CVS HEAD |
| 19:31.17 | DTRemenak | and both are up to date? |
| 19:31.48 | uso | there seems something be broken: patch unexpectedly ends in middle of line |
| 19:32.04 | ToughShooter | Updating old stuff, then cvs diff -u and then checking out a new copy 30 seconds later |
| 19:32.08 | DTRemenak | yup, something is not right |
| 19:32.50 | ToughShooter | diff --version is 2.8.1 |
| 19:33.10 | ToughShooter | patch --version is 2.5.8 |
| 19:33.25 | ToughShooter | Do you need to see the diff file? |
| 19:33.36 | uso | CBG: you got through your maths exams? ;) |
| 19:33.46 | CBG | yeah, not too bad :) |
| 19:33.54 | CBG | Stats was easy, liked that one. |
| 19:34.08 | uso | because of the ~37/3 ;) |
| 19:34.15 | CBG | First pure one was ok too. 2nd was harder, but I expected it. :) |
| 19:34.22 | CBG | hehe uso |
| 19:34.23 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 19:34.32 | ToughShooter | DTRemenak: Any idea what is wrong? |
| 19:34.37 | DTRemenak | ToughShooter: nope |
| 19:34.41 | CBG | I meant ~37/13 anyway :P |
| 19:34.54 | DTRemenak | CBG: even worse :P |
| 19:35.03 | CBG | heh |
| 19:35.09 | CBG | ~37/13 |
| 19:35.11 | ibot | 2.846153846154 |
| 19:35.13 | DTRemenak | 2 and 11/13 |
| 19:35.15 | ToughShooter | man I am finding all the problems |
| 19:35.18 | CBG | yeah, I knew that. |
| 19:35.22 | CBG | ;) |
| 19:36.22 | ToughShooter | DTRemenak: Will showing the diff help? |
| 19:36.31 | brlcad | ToughShooter: if you apply a diff twice, hunks will fail |
| 19:37.27 | ToughShooter | brlcad: I made a cvs diff -u on a modified checkout and tried to apply it to a fresh vanilla one |
| 19:37.42 | JeffM2501 | just so you other bzbb admins know, I've removed "gyro man"'s ability to post, repeating spamings of old threads/dumb responces |
| 19:38.50 | ATD_ | TY |
| 19:38.57 | brlcad | ToughShooter: there's not much that can go wrong with cvs diff -u |
| 19:39.03 | brlcad | more than likely, you're just using patch wrong |
| 19:39.13 | brlcad | it's not forgiving in the least |
| 19:39.41 | ToughShooter | This is what I ran before cvs diff -u: http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/84267 |
| 19:39.53 | brlcad | regardless, review the patch visually.. if it has your changes, if it looks good, someone will likely be able to apply it |
| 19:39.57 | DTRemenak | ToughShooter: how are you turning your diff into a file? just do cvs diff -u > somefile if you're not doing that |
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| 19:40.40 | ToughShooter | I went to command line and copied it, then saved it into a file from within an editor where I pasted |
| 19:40.47 | DTRemenak | don't do that :P |
| 19:40.54 | brlcad | heh |
| 19:41.01 | DTRemenak | editors have line ending issues |
| 19:41.36 | brlcad | my editor doesn't have line ending issues, it's multitalented in that regard |
| 19:41.40 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 19:41.51 | brlcad | it's also my therapist |
| 19:41.56 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 19:42.09 | DTRemenak | have you set it as your login shell yet? |
| 19:42.30 | brlcad | just for a little while |
| 19:42.41 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 19:45.35 | ToughShooter | Hmm, I thought my editor would be line savy |
| 19:47.03 | ToughShooter | DTRemenak: Good hint |
| 19:47.23 | DTRemenak | no problem |
| 19:47.28 | *** join/#bzflag [NP]Tangent (n=hyperdev@71-211-201-61.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 19:47.33 | ToughShooter | It works now after 3 days searching for the problem |
| 19:48.36 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 19:49.45 | JeffM2501 | yay, TE dosnt' crash anymore :) |
| 19:50.47 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: what tree did you build it on? |
| 19:51.01 | JeffM2501 | some 1/2 ass one I had been puttering on |
| 19:51.08 | JeffM2501 | for 2.0.x |
| 19:51.17 | JeffM2501 | was the first start of flag atributes |
| 19:51.22 | JeffM2501 | so none of the messages worked :) |
| 19:51.27 | DTRemenak | heh :) |
| 19:51.32 | JeffM2501 | this one is on 2_0 branch |
| 19:54.41 | JeffM2501 | now I just have to make my unpack be the same as my pack :) |
| 19:55.28 | JeffM2501 | asuming the 2 team capitans don't kill themselves first ;) |
| 19:55.58 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 19:56.48 | spldart | how do you do drivethrough and shoot though? |
| 19:57.02 | spldart | I forgot :( |
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| 19:57.08 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 19:58.06 | A_Meteorite | spldart: drivethrough and shootthrough "element" |
| 19:58.11 | A_Meteorite | box |
| 19:58.16 | A_Meteorite | position 0 0 0 |
| 19:58.20 | A_Meteorite | size 10 10 10 |
| 19:58.23 | A_Meteorite | shootthrough |
| 19:58.25 | A_Meteorite | end |
| 19:58.28 | A_Meteorite | you get the idea ;) |
| 19:58.32 | spldart | sweet thanks |
| 19:58.52 | spldart | for some reason I thought i had to be remembering wrong and it couldn't be that easy |
| 20:00.54 | JeffM2501 | there is also "passable" |
| 20:00.56 | JeffM2501 | that does both |
| 20:04.59 | spldart | really? |
| 20:06.02 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (n=wizart@dslb-084-058-100-251.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:08.12 | spldart | sure enough |
| 20:08.37 | spldart | Well... My map is done for now.. A few touch ups on the conf file and I'mma gonna release |
| 20:08.57 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (n=wizart@dslb-084-058-100-251.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:09.26 | spldart | 500kbs up and 5mbs down can support how many players? |
| 20:09.32 | spldart | 3 shot |
| 20:09.35 | spldart | two team ctf |
| 20:10.09 | JeffM2501 | it's the up that matters |
| 20:10.26 | JeffM2501 | probalby 10-15 |
| 20:10.28 | spldart | I've had 12 on at one time with no significant lag but not sure if I could squeeze a bit more or not |
| 20:10.30 | JeffM2501 | maybe 20 |
| 20:10.39 | spldart | was thinking of shooting for 16 |
| 20:10.48 | JeffM2501 | asuming you use the line for other stuff too |
| 20:10.49 | spldart | so I guess that's possible |
| 20:10.55 | JeffM2501 | try and see |
| 20:11.40 | *** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (n=gnurdux@c-69-251-233-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:11.50 | spldart | Actually I'm going to kill the other use for tonight and tomorrow to really let the new map get most all.. I'll keep on irc and observer client will dial straight over the lan |
| 20:12.47 | spldart | I'm so tempted to buy more bandwidth but don't know who to call or how much I might be looking at for cost |
| 20:13.25 | DTRemenak | brlcad: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=8514 |
| 20:14.19 | spldart | how would I give general registered tankers /veto and /ability to reset the flags that aren't carried? |
| 20:16.10 | *** join/#bzflag PuMpErNiCkEl (n=PuMpErNi@CPE000d8802a749-CM0012c9a9a6dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 20:16.35 | *** join/#bzflag Blue_Eyes (n=Blue@host167-139.pool8260.interbusiness.it) |
| 20:16.43 | DTRemenak | bzfls.log has gotten awefully large :) |
| 20:16.44 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, who is repsonsible for freeing the memory allocated for a network message? the caller or does it happen inside of the send func |
| 20:16.55 | brlcad | DTRemenak: since when? |
| 20:16.58 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: freeing? aw, who cares? :) |
| 20:17.03 | brlcad | i just cleared it out a few days ago |
| 20:17.04 | JeffM2501 | realy? |
| 20:17.07 | DTRemenak | brlcad: it's 213mb, in the last 8 days |
| 20:17.18 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: just kidding! :) |
| 20:17.24 | brlcad | it was about 2.5GB .. |
| 20:17.25 | DTRemenak | I don't remember |
| 20:17.40 | JeffM2501 | time to dig then :) |
| 20:17.42 | brlcad | still, 213mb is awefully large |
| 20:17.45 | DTRemenak | well 213mb is enough that when vi tries to load it it exceeds the user memory limit :) |
| 20:18.02 | DTRemenak | and it's enough that it would take an hour to download |
| 20:18.13 | brlcad | it filled up /var.. presumably /var/tmp or somesuch |
| 20:18.13 | DTRemenak | so my conclusion is that tail is handy :) |
| 20:18.29 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 20:18.38 | ATD_ | spldart: add "veto" and "pollflagreset" to your "VERIFIED" group |
| 20:18.42 | brlcad | which only has like 200mb |
| 20:18.47 | DTRemenak | ahh |
| 20:19.16 | spldart | thanks ATD_ |
| 20:19.31 | DTRemenak | maybe should put bzfls.log on a seven-day cycle or something. keep for a week, one day per file |
| 20:20.10 | DTRemenak | that'd be ~30mb/file, which is managable |
| 20:20.35 | I_Died_Once | http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/301/headbutt3zf.gif |
| 20:21.14 | brlcad | the few times it's been useful to rummage through it, i've needed more than a week, but yeah.. log rotation is on the eventual todo list -- as disk space is more of a problem it'll be more pressing |
| 20:22.13 | spldart | ooh wait |
| 20:22.16 | I_Died_Once | no lie... about a month and a half's worth of logging at Planet MoFo's Free For All - 9.7 megs |
| 20:22.21 | spldart | I wanted to add /poll not /veto |
| 20:22.46 | spldart | I want to have registered users be able to vote a cheater or tk'er off |
| 20:23.15 | spldart | So I need VERIFIED: poll pollflagreset ??? |
| 20:23.25 | spldart | in my groupdb file |
| 20:23.31 | DTRemenak | brlcad: only times I've had to use it were same-day |
| 20:25.05 | ATD_ | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=7416&highlight=perms&start=15 |
| 20:25.12 | Gnurdux | hi A_Meteorite |
| 20:25.17 | A_Meteorite | hello |
| 20:25.17 | ATD_ | spldart: there's a post that lists most of the perms available |
| 20:25.48 | spldart | Thanks... I didn't see that :) |
| 20:26.10 | JeffM2501 | how hard would it be to have the client send the uname -a to the list server for linux systems? |
| 20:26.22 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, nor hard at all |
| 20:26.33 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: not too hard. it's on the TODO I think :) |
| 20:26.38 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 20:26.44 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, i can code it up |
| 20:26.45 | DTRemenak | need to do something similar for all systems actually |
| 20:26.50 | Gnurdux | for linux |
| 20:26.52 | JeffM2501 | windows isn't hard |
| 20:26.59 | DTRemenak | I'm sure you can do windows |
| 20:26.59 | JeffM2501 | don't know how the tosh does it |
| 20:27.00 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 20:27.06 | JeffM2501 | what is there to ask about windows? |
| 20:27.12 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, would you like me to code up a linux patch? |
| 20:27.15 | JeffM2501 | they all take the same binary |
| 20:27.24 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: for statistics, iirc |
| 20:27.31 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, wow man, calm down. |
| 20:27.35 | DTRemenak | nt flag, major and minor versions |
| 20:27.35 | Gnurdux | heh ok |
| 20:27.45 | JeffM2501 | ahh, that's prety easy |
| 20:27.49 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 20:27.51 | JeffM2501 | I'm wondering for the bins |
| 20:27.53 | DTRemenak | and architecture |
| 20:28.00 | JeffM2501 | there is only 1 arch :) |
| 20:28.05 | DTRemenak | there are two :) |
| 20:28.21 | JeffM2501 | the other one will be a seperate build so we can code it :) |
| 20:28.25 | DTRemenak | actually there are three, but if anyone was running bzflag on 2k3 for IA64 I'd have to shoot htem :) |
| 20:28.34 | JeffM2501 | this is true |
| 20:28.37 | JeffM2501 | death to itanium |
| 20:28.39 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: people may run the i386 binary on x86_64 systems |
| 20:28.53 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, they should, it's hella faster |
| 20:28.54 | DTRemenak | if you're gonna use itanium, for god's sake don't run windows on it |
| 20:29.04 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, its FASTER? |
| 20:29.05 | JeffM2501 | arch may be harder |
| 20:29.07 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, yeah |
| 20:29.13 | Gnurdux | this windows or linux? |
| 20:29.19 | JeffM2501 | bzflag dosnt' do much 64 bit data stuff |
| 20:29.27 | JeffM2501 | so on native 64 it wastes a lot of stuff |
| 20:29.29 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: it's not, iirc...just have to retreive another structure from windows |
| 20:29.42 | JeffM2501 | but I hate talking to windows ;) |
| 20:29.48 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 20:29.52 | JeffM2501 | tho it's better then talking to the mac |
| 20:29.56 | JeffM2501 | silly pascal strings |
| 20:30.03 | DTRemenak | leave arch off for windows then. should include it for unix-like systems |
| 20:30.30 | DTRemenak | btw, if you could have it write out that stuff into the debug log like it does for windows, that'd be good too |
| 20:30.37 | JeffM2501 | oh I'm not DOING it |
| 20:30.40 | JeffM2501 | I was just wondering :) |
| 20:30.41 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 20:30.44 | DTRemenak | aww |
| 20:31.02 | JeffM2501 | I have enough stuff to do here |
| 20:32.10 | JeffM2501 | like get this damned checksum to work |
| 20:32.32 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: anyway, for unix-like systems, see "man 3 uname" |
| 20:32.38 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 20:32.51 | JeffM2501 | probalby want to do the backend of storing the data first |
| 20:33.00 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 20:33.08 | DTRemenak | haven't gotten around to that yet :) |
| 20:33.18 | brlcad | JeffM2501: you know I was thinking that you could take care of some of the problems by just doing this checksummage/checking/crypting/whatever as a secondary handshake on a join |
| 20:33.36 | brlcad | that way, normal clients could still connect to your server and observe unaffected |
| 20:34.00 | JeffM2501 | yeah dtr and I were talking about that kinda thing for a later version |
| 20:34.02 | brlcad | it would only be clients playing that'd need the leagified version |
| 20:34.30 | Gnurdux | so the idea is that eventually leagues will all be playing on closed-source clients? |
| 20:34.35 | DTRemenak | no |
| 20:34.35 | JeffM2501 | doing a 3 step handshake that ends in msgEnter |
| 20:34.48 | DTRemenak | Gnurdux: certain tourneys will |
| 20:34.49 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, I don't know what the leagues will be doing |
| 20:34.50 | DTRemenak | that's it |
| 20:34.54 | Gnurdux | DTRemenak, ok :P |
| 20:35.01 | Gnurdux | like this ol vs mofo one |
| 20:35.06 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 20:35.21 | brlcad | the clients won't be closed source -- they'll just use a lib that isn't published for what should be obvious reasons |
| 20:35.39 | JeffM2501 | asuming I get it all to work :) |
| 20:35.39 | Mr_Molez | and that aint aginst the gpl ? |
| 20:35.43 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 20:35.47 | JeffM2501 | not against the lgpl |
| 20:35.49 | brlcad | bz isn't gpl |
| 20:35.50 | DTRemenak | Mr_Molez: we're lgpl, not gpl |
| 20:35.50 | JeffM2501 | and bzflag is lgpl |
| 20:35.51 | Gnurdux | Mr_Molez, it is against gpl |
| 20:35.56 | Gnurdux | but bzflag is lgpl |
| 20:36.15 | JeffM2501 | gnardux needs to take a typing class |
| 20:36.19 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 20:36.31 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, umm? |
| 20:36.31 | brlcad | if you're the third one.. probably just shouldn't hit the enter key |
| 20:36.38 | Gnurdux | you should talk |
| 20:36.43 | Gnurdux | brlcad, i didn't notice |
| 20:36.47 | JeffM2501 | typing isn't spelling ;) |
| 20:37.02 | Gnurdux | lol true |
| 20:37.07 | JeffM2501 | typing is hiting keys with out looking at your hands. |
| 20:37.07 | Mr_Molez | since when did it become lgpl ? |
| 20:37.07 | DTRemenak | Gnurdux: he can type fine, just doesn't know WHAT to type :) |
| 20:37.12 | Gnurdux | Mr_Molez, since always |
| 20:37.12 | JeffM2501 | Mr_Molez, since 2001 |
| 20:37.21 | Mr_Molez | i could have sworn.... |
| 20:37.21 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, no, please don't speak if you don't know |
| 20:37.34 | DTRemenak | always == 5 years now, eh Gnurdux? :) |
| 20:37.34 | Gnurdux | Mr_Molez, was it ever GPL? you prolyl got em mixed up LGPL is Library GPL |
| 20:37.38 | JeffM2501 | tim converted to the LGPL in january of 2001 |
| 20:37.40 | Gnurdux | DTRemenak, exactly |
| 20:37.50 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, be quiet |
| 20:37.52 | JeffM2501 | please |
| 20:38.03 | DTRemenak | Gnurdux: bzflag was never gpl'ed to the best of my knowledge |
| 20:38.17 | DTRemenak | we used our own license before the lgpl |
| 20:39.50 | brlcad | and according to the higher-than-thou gnu monkies, lgpl no longer stands for Library .. it's the "Lesser" GPL |
| 20:40.13 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 20:40.28 | JeffM2501 | I am sure it's comonly used for librarys tho |
| 20:40.28 | brlcad | i suppose that makes GPL v3 the Morer GPL |
| 20:40.32 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 20:41.39 | brlcad | is it, it's just not specific to libraries either -- that was always a misnomer |
| 20:41.56 | JeffM2501 | the one I read used the term "library" a lot |
| 20:43.21 | brlcad | yeah, it talks about things from the perspectiv of coding things into a library, or hooking into libraries, or using 3rd party libraries etc.. but even that is admittedly vague (almost any code could be considered a library) |
| 20:43.22 | JeffM2501 | it does mean that techincaly I could sell this mod :) |
| 20:43.35 | Mr_Molez | like anyone would buy die ;) |
| 20:43.39 | JeffM2501 | yexactly |
| 20:43.39 | brlcad | you could |
| 20:43.41 | Mr_Molez | it * |
| 20:43.45 | Mr_Molez | die ? hmmm ive lost it |
| 20:43.48 | JeffM2501 | I could sell stock bzflag too |
| 20:43.50 | JeffM2501 | if I wanted |
| 20:43.51 | JeffM2501 | legaly |
| 20:43.54 | Mr_Molez | stock bzflag ? |
| 20:43.57 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 20:44.00 | brlcad | you can with gpl too .. just makes even less sense |
| 20:44.02 | Mr_Molez | how ? |
| 20:44.03 | JeffM2501 | I just have to provide the soruce |
| 20:44.11 | JeffM2501 | I say "gimme 100$" |
| 20:44.18 | JeffM2501 | and who ever does I give them a CD |
| 20:44.18 | Mr_Molez | ah i see what you mean |
| 20:44.20 | JeffM2501 | with the soruce ;) |
| 20:44.28 | Mr_Molez | like people sell linux distros on ebay ;) |
| 20:44.42 | JeffM2501 | as long as distribute source for a reasonable cost then I'm legal |
| 20:44.54 | JeffM2501 | like the people selling gimp on e-bay |
| 20:45.20 | JeffM2501 | or redhat selling boxed copies |
| 20:45.34 | I_Died_Once | you'll lose money is shipping |
| 20:46.08 | JeffM2501 | but since this mod is only compatable with itself, it's slightly less stupid to sell it ;) |
| 20:46.08 | I_Died_Once | **in |
| 20:46.11 | Mr_Molez | anyone wanna buy mapchange plugin :P |
| 20:46.11 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak|RDP (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 20:46.21 | JeffM2501 | if I make the lib do a lot more then it becomes less and less stupid |
| 20:47.25 | DTRemenak|RDP | sweet, just had a surge supressor blow |
| 20:47.27 | CBG | Mr_Molez: yeah!! :P |
| 20:47.29 | *** join/#bzflag Xe11 (n=Xell@p54875C28.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:47.46 | Mr_Molez | CBG: heheeh |
| 20:47.46 | brlcad | DTRemenak: cool |
| 20:48.05 | DTRemenak | anyway, what I was going to say was that I was wrong - bzflag was gpl for about a year, between when we used our own license and the lgpl |
| 20:48.58 | JeffM2501 | so a lot more then "never" |
| 20:49.03 | JeffM2501 | and less the "for allways" |
| 20:49.35 | JeffM2501 | wonder what the custom license was like |
| 20:49.59 | DTRemenak | and it was 2003, not 2001, when it switched to the lgpl |
| 20:50.05 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 20:50.10 | JeffM2501 | well I was guessing |
| 20:50.20 | JeffM2501 | I had looked it up a while ago, rmember 200something |
| 20:50.21 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: http://bzflag.cvs.sourceforge.net/bzflag/bzflag/LICENSE?hideattic=0&revision=1.1.1.1&view=markup |
| 20:50.21 | brlcad | hence the graph boom |
| 20:50.34 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (n=QB@adsl-33-192-161.lft.bellsouth.net) |
| 20:51.05 | brlcad | 3/4 months later |
| 20:51.09 | DTRemenak | brlcad: it was gpl before that, dunno why switching to L made a graph boom...otoh, 1.9 development I can see doing that :) |
| 20:51.21 | DTRemenak | Mr_Molez: you can still use the old code under the old license |
| 20:51.23 | brlcad | Mr_Molez: the copyright owner can do whatever they want with their copy |
| 20:51.34 | DTRemenak | Mr_Molez: the copyright owner can change the current code to whatever license they want |
| 20:51.35 | JeffM2501 | Mr_Molez, the copyright holder can grant any license they wish to |
| 20:51.37 | JeffM2501 | they OWN it |
| 20:51.40 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 20:51.49 | DTRemenak | we could sing in harmony you know :) |
| 20:52.03 | CBG | where did I leave those ear guards? |
| 20:52.43 | brlcad | DTRemenak: are you a beer lubbing citizen yet? |
| 20:53.03 | JeffM2501 | heh, this 1.7 tree dosn't even have a license :) |
| 20:53.09 | DTRemenak | Mr_Molez: many projects require the approval of everyone who's submitted code in order to change licences. we have a single copyright holder instead of retaining the copyrights individually, so we have more flexibility |
| 20:53.27 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=jbdigriz@206-15-67-2.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 20:53.27 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 20:53.29 | DTRemenak | brlcad: december :) |
| 20:53.35 | brlcad | ooo |
| 20:53.41 | brlcad | "excellent" |
| 20:54.37 | JeffM2501 | the origonal license was this |
| 20:54.38 | JeffM2501 | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/84346 |
| 20:55.03 | DTRemenak | Mr_Molez: theoretically, that also means Tim could "take his ball and go home." what would actually happen in that case is that the rest of us would fork it from the last lgpl'ed version |
| 20:55.15 | CBG | Well, it's to the point :) |
| 20:55.33 | Mr_Molez | :) |
| 20:55.36 | brlcad | bz's implicit assignment of copyright has always been on sketchy legal ground, but it is a rather innocuous game and voiced enough to probably be more than sufficient for this band of thieves |
| 20:55.58 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 20:56.21 | JeffM2501 | hah, it was only 247 files then too |
| 20:56.32 | CBG | how many now, approx.? |
| 20:56.35 | DTRemenak | ah, but what was the average file size? :) |
| 20:56.41 | JeffM2501 | don't know |
| 20:56.59 | brlcad | still not done for that matter.. |
| 20:57.11 | DTRemenak | brlcad: seems to me you did some exploding on playing.cxx too |
| 20:57.17 | DTRemenak | and menus.cxx... |
| 20:57.18 | JeffM2501 | it's old 1.7b3 code |
| 20:57.18 | brlcad | that made it a heck of a lot easier to add new commands and crap.. and the crap sure did flow.. *ahem* |
| 20:57.26 | JeffM2501 | I can't even compile it anymore |
| 20:57.35 | JeffM2501 | vc5 stuff |
| 20:57.41 | brlcad | yeah, playing.cxx is a mess.. |
| 20:57.45 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: you don't have vc5 around? :) |
| 20:57.49 | JeffM2501 | umm no |
| 20:58.06 | JeffM2501 | your a sick sick man |
| 20:58.13 | DTRemenak | haha |
| 20:58.24 | JeffM2501 | but I can not leagaly send you this code ;) |
| 20:58.37 | DTRemenak | true... :) |
| 21:00.58 | DTRemenak | heh, I plugged my old p-100 the other day, started it up, logged in as root ('cause that's the only password I have that hasn't changed since then...)..."Last login by root: Thu Oct 21 1999 11:58:56" |
| 21:01.18 | Mr_Molez | lol nice |
| 21:02.43 | DTRemenak | old suse 6.0 installation |
| 21:20.34 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak / brlcad so how hard will it be to have bzflag build staticly? |
| 21:45.11 | gsnedders | g'night |
| 21:49.27 | *** join/#bzflag A-Delusion (n=A-Delusi@pool-151-201-116-35.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 21:50.29 | *** join/#bzflag Blue-Eyes (n=Blue@host92-179.pool8258.interbusiness.it) |
| 22:01.25 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 22:01.26 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 22:06.27 | Gnurdux | is list server slow right now |
| 22:06.39 | Gnurdux | TimRiker, if you trust JeffM2501 why not assign him to plan 2.2 :o |
| 22:07.08 | blast007 | what's a plan? |
| 22:07.39 | Gnurdux | blast007, are you asking sarcastically, or meaning "what use is a plan"? |
| 22:07.50 | blast007 | the first one |
| 22:07.59 | Gnurdux | ok |
| 22:08.15 | blast007 | I'm always sarcastic |
| 22:09.03 | Xe11 | mmh no global login |
| 22:09.04 | spldart | list server and BZBB are in the dirt :eek: |
| 22:09.41 | blast007 | it will pass |
| 22:09.45 | Gnurdux | spldart, yet they respond to pings |
| 22:09.49 | Gnurdux | only http is down |
| 22:09.54 | blast007 | it's not down |
| 22:09.55 | blast007 | just slow |
| 22:10.01 | spldart | REAL slow hehehe |
| 22:10.05 | blast007 | :) |
| 22:10.18 | blast007 | ~bzflist |
| 22:10.23 | spldart | I time out over and over right now |
| 22:10.41 | blast007 | well, just be patient ;) |
| 22:10.46 | spldart | k |
| 22:11.07 | spldart | and that's saying alot... I had just released my new map and posted about it about an hour ago 8-0 |
| 22:11.12 | Gnurdux | whu would it be slow only in http? |
| 22:11.13 | spldart | :-) |
| 22:11.54 | TimRiker | Gnurdux: JeffM2501 has been doing much of the planning and stuff on 2.1 lately. We have talked about doing a plan for larger changes, but it has not happened yet. |
| 22:12.20 | Gnurdux | ah |
| 22:12.25 | Gnurdux | heh |
| 22:14.23 | *** part/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@63.147.94.149) |
| 22:23.02 | *** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (n=gnurdux@c-69-251-233-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 22:23.36 | *** join/#bzflag Mr_Molez (n=admin@openleague.org) |
| 22:23.50 | Gnurdux | that moron brad :( |
| 22:23.58 | Gnurdux | well not moron |
| 22:24.01 | Mr_Molez | grrr |
| 22:24.01 | Gnurdux | just evil one |
| 22:24.08 | A_Meteorite | what'd he do? |
| 22:24.14 | Gnurdux | he told us to do /server |
| 22:24.19 | Gnurdux | to "read a memo" |
| 22:24.24 | brad | <3 |
| 22:24.32 | A_Meteorite | hehe... |
| 22:24.34 | Gnurdux | A_Meteorite, did you notice us both rejoining? |
| 22:24.39 | A_Meteorite | yes |
| 22:25.17 | [NP]Tangent | hey Gnurdux |
| 22:25.19 | Gnurdux | btw A_Meteorite ask JeffM2501 for the global grouppy |
| 22:25.28 | A_Meteorite | he made it already |
| 22:25.34 | [NP]Tangent | to read memos. you press Alt, and then type "fxfire" |
| 22:25.36 | [NP]Tangent | but without quotes |
| 22:26.25 | Gnurdux | sweet A_Meteorite put me in it "{ |
| 22:26.42 | A_Meteorite | I will, but I'm doing scripts now :P |
| 22:26.49 | Gnurdux | ok :D |
| 22:27.00 | Gnurdux | and im gonna fix edit match |
| 22:27.36 | brad | why don't you make a channel for your league to discuss whatever |
| 22:27.48 | A_Meteorite | brad: I don't know how to make ops and all that |
| 22:27.59 | brad | Gnurdux does! |
| 22:28.03 | A_Meteorite | but otherwise I got one |
| 22:28.04 | A_Meteorite | ooh |
| 22:28.08 | A_Meteorite | join #plosileague |
| 22:31.01 | *** join/#bzflag Thonolan (n=Thonolan@i5387826A.versanet.de) |
| 22:31.36 | Mr_Molez | Thonolan: hey :) |
| 22:31.43 | Thonolan | hey :) |
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| 22:40.34 | BzLynx | hoya |
| 22:43.09 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=Chris@ip68-109-194-101.pv.oc.cox.net) |
| 22:44.57 | BzLynx | laterz |
| 22:50.09 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 22:50.09 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 22:51.30 | *** join/#bzflag A_Heart_Attack (n=bzhearta@ool-44c748c9.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 22:57.58 | JeffM2501 | I have been? |
| 22:58.11 | A_Heart_Attack | ?? |
| 22:58.26 | JeffM2501 | planing |
| 22:58.44 | Gnurdux | ask TimRiker |
| 22:59.09 | A_Heart_Attack | am i missing something here? |
| 22:59.10 | JeffM2501 | umm he quit genius ;) |
| 22:59.15 | JeffM2501 | yes, yes you are |
| 22:59.36 | A_Heart_Attack | lol |
| 22:59.44 | JeffM2501 | ok so If I take his statement right.. I'm in charge;) |
| 22:59.44 | A_Heart_Attack | who quit? |
| 22:59.56 | JeffM2501 | sweet |
| 23:00.04 | A_Heart_Attack | Tim quit? |
| 23:00.21 | A_Heart_Attack | im lost |
| 23:00.22 | Gnurdux | * TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) has joined #bzflag |
| 23:00.22 | Gnurdux | * ChanServ gives channel operator status to TimRiker |
| 23:00.22 | Gnurdux | * A_Heart_Attack (n=bzhearta@ool-44c748c9.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #b |
| 23:00.28 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, he came back on |
| 23:00.36 | Mr_Molez | jeff proved wrong :) |
| 23:00.38 | Gnurdux | he quit and cmae back on, and is on at the moment |
| 23:01.02 | A_Heart_Attack | ok im lost |
| 23:01.03 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 23:01.12 | JeffM2501 | A_Heart_Attack, not all things concern you :) |
| 23:01.35 | A_Heart_Attack | i know |
| 23:01.42 | A_Heart_Attack | ;) |
| 23:04.34 | JeffM2501 | it's part of the plan |
| 23:04.46 | A_Heart_Attack | lol |
| 23:05.13 | spldart | eek |
| 23:05.39 | A_Heart_Attack | we dont care |
| 23:05.40 | A_Heart_Attack | :p |
| 23:05.44 | spldart | ok |
| 23:05.50 | spldart | :-p x2 |
| 23:06.28 | JeffM2501 | if you don't do it bzflag will fail |
| 23:06.28 | JeffM2501 | and it'll be all your fault |
| 23:15.08 | *** join/#bzflag Thonolan (n=Thonolan@i5387826A.versanet.de) |
| 23:32.14 | *** join/#bzflag inchworm (n=msimmons@azerial.fastwave.biz) |
| 23:36.07 | JeffM2501 | see Gnurdux you didn't do the pushups, now tim is leaving the project |
| 23:36.10 | JeffM2501 | look at what your doing |
| 23:36.14 | Gnurdux | aw too bad |
| 23:36.16 | Gnurdux | that sucks |
| 23:36.19 | Gnurdux | :P |
| 23:36.22 | A_Heart_Attack | lol |
| 23:36.28 | JeffM2501 | so much for asignments working I guess |
| 23:36.35 | A_Heart_Attack | jeff, take a few deep breaths, hes gonna be ok |
| 23:36.41 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 23:36.43 | A_Heart_Attack | ... |
| 23:36.50 | A_Heart_Attack | ............... |
| 23:36.52 | A_Heart_Attack | NV, |
| 23:36.54 | Gnurdux | A_Heart_Attack, incase you missed it, he was kidding |
| 23:37.01 | A_Heart_Attack | no duh |
| 23:37.04 | A_Heart_Attack | so was i |
| 23:37.08 | Gnurdux | so then what did you mena |
| 23:37.09 | Gnurdux | oh |
| 23:37.15 | A_Heart_Attack | lol |
| 23:38.09 | inchworm | hmm does anyone know the first 4 letters of Chestal's aim account ? |
| 23:38.25 | A_Heart_Attack | no |
| 23:38.28 | inchworm | i have a name here, but when i moved IM clients it isn't attached to a name |
| 23:38.35 | inchworm | a real life name |
| 23:38.35 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 23:38.41 | JeffM2501 | just look him up on bzbb |
| 23:38.50 | inchworm | ahh sry, good idea |
| 23:38.52 | JeffM2501 | he has all his contact info in his profile |
| 23:44.07 | inchworm | i could be unshy and just say "Who are you? " to this person... |
| 23:44.19 | inchworm | it doesn't appear to be chestal... |
| 23:44.48 | inchworm | anyway..this is bzflag not help inchworm hour..sorry |
| 23:44.54 | A_Heart_Attack | lol |
| 23:45.17 | *** join/#bzflag triclops (n=triclops@210-84-59-133.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 23:46.10 | JeffM2501 | his aim name is similar to his callsign |
| 23:47.32 | inchworm | it appears that way...so it isn't him....but I can't find him in my contact even though im sure i added him at some point |
| 23:47.53 | inchworm | so i IM'd the forgotten one...and no response yet |
| 23:48.55 | *** join/#bzflag I_Died_Once (n=I_Died_O@c-69-136-41-50.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 23:51.30 | JeffM2501 | he's in germany man, he's probably asleep |
| 23:51.42 | A_Heart_Attack | lol |
| 23:51.56 | *** join/#bzflag Think_differentl (n=Think_Di@pool-70-108-41-40.res.east.verizon.net) |
| 23:52.32 | A_Heart_Attack | hey TD |
| 23:52.39 | Think_differentl | hay |
| 23:52.47 | Think_differentl | i met Gnurdy today |
| 23:53.28 | A_Heart_Attack | i know |
| 23:53.29 | A_Heart_Attack | he told me |
| 23:53.38 | Think_differentl | :P |
