| 00:03.31 | StargateSG1 | m/names |
| 00:15.58 | Patlabor221 | how does one define a world wep |
| 00:40.51 | *** join/#bzflag chatelaine (~aec@dev.gibbscam.com) |
| 00:45.17 | *** join/#bzflag doughecka (~rooot@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net) |
| 00:51.03 | StargateSG1 | i believe there is an example in the manpage |
| 00:51.19 | StargateSG1 | bzfs manpage, that is |
| 00:53.45 | Patlabor221 | yeah seen it |
| 00:54.40 | Tupone | StargateSG1: movies ended? |
| 00:54.55 | StargateSG1 | no, couple hours to go :) |
| 00:55.06 | Patlabor221 | what season? |
| 00:55.15 | StargateSG1 | not sure |
| 00:55.55 | Tupone | StargateSG1: Have you seen how long does it take to get a full-screen snapshot? |
| 00:56.06 | StargateSG1 | yes, couple seconds |
| 00:56.18 | Tupone | thats NR for the server |
| 00:56.28 | Tupone | so he ask to drop flag |
| 00:56.34 | Tupone | and client execute |
| 00:56.46 | StargateSG1 | that's what I guessed happened too |
| 00:56.56 | Tupone | the remark says only team flag are dropped |
| 00:57.07 | Tupone | but instead all flags are |
| 00:57.12 | StargateSG1 | hrm |
| 00:57.14 | StargateSG1 | where? |
| 00:57.42 | Tupone | bzfs.cxx:4747 |
| 00:58.11 | StargateSG1 | odd |
| 00:58.58 | Tupone | this has been fixed by you, but originally capt wrote |
| 00:59.15 | StargateSG1 | yes, I applied a patch, iirc |
| 00:59.39 | Tupone | no you just change a variable name, that was wrong |
| 01:00.13 | StargateSG1 | i mean originally, to fix the bug -- there was a patch. months ago |
| 01:00.53 | Tupone | I C you change this line "if (flag[j].player == h) {" was "if (flag[j].player == i) {" |
| 01:01.59 | Tupone | client reaction is wrong, but we need to remove any flag from an nr player? |
| 01:04.19 | StargateSG1 | i would think so, at least after some amount of time |
| 01:04.42 | StargateSG1 | the timeout for NR to get their connection dropped is much too long to wait |
| 01:06.19 | Tupone | StargateSG1: sure? I enabled the TCP_KEEPALIVE :) |
| 01:08.09 | StargateSG1 | ah, I see what I did now.. it was a potential infinite loop before, the for loop var was wrong |
| 01:08.38 | Tupone | yeah |
| 01:09.02 | StargateSG1 | so it just didn't work before either |
| 01:09.09 | Tupone | yup |
| 01:09.16 | *** join/#bzflag doughecka (~rooot@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net) |
| 01:10.04 | Tupone | Its remark was wrong at the beginning (or the code) :) |
| 01:12.10 | *** join/#bzflag captain_pistachi (~blardebla@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 01:12.11 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o captain_pistachi] by ChanServ |
| 01:12.21 | *** join/#bzflag purple_cow (~jupiter@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 01:12.37 | Tupone | StargateSG1: look at -r1.352 |
| 01:18.37 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-1 (~CIA-1@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 01:19.53 | StargateSG1 | i actually don't think that dropping any flag is all that bad when a player goes NR -- more interesting that 1) i could shoot from within building and 2) that I went NR when i saved screenshot |
| 01:20.09 | StargateSG1 | those are the two "bugs" imo |
| 01:20.40 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-2_ (~CIA-2@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 01:20.48 | Tupone | for not beeing NR we should redo the png writing |
| 01:21.06 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-2__ (~CIA-2_@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 01:22.22 | StargateSG1 | i would assume time is spent either applying the gamma correction or writing to disk in blocking mode |
| 01:22.42 | Tupone | or compressing? |
| 01:22.49 | StargateSG1 | it compresses? |
| 01:22.57 | Tupone | that is png now |
| 01:23.06 | StargateSG1 | right, but compression is an option |
| 01:23.26 | Tupone | I don't know really, I hear about zlib here |
| 01:24.03 | Tupone | don't know if it was a possibility. I hadn't look at the code |
| 01:25.16 | StargateSG1 | probably, then |
| 01:25.38 | StargateSG1 | then there's little we can do without threading |
| 01:26.01 | StargateSG1 | is there ever a case where you should be able to shoot when InBuilding? |
| 01:26.56 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-2_ (~CIA-2@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 01:29.26 | Tupone | if we apply PZ suggestion, yes |
| 01:37.53 | *** join/#bzflag ` (~micah@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 01:39.08 | StargateSG1 | any objections if I add a group to the Patches section called "Breaks Protocol" |
| 01:40.48 | Tupone | great |
| 01:41.36 | StargateSG1 | any better naming suggestions? |
| 01:41.49 | *** join/#bzflag doughecka (~rooot@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net) |
| 01:43.24 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-1 (~CIA-1@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 01:43.34 | *** join/#bzflag Michaelh (Mouse@172-27.dynamic.visi.com) |
| 01:46.43 | Michaelh | Is there some lickity split way to revert code -- do you just download the older version of files? |
| 01:47.17 | StargateSG1 | revert what? |
| 01:47.23 | StargateSG1 | your patch? |
| 01:47.27 | Michaelh | for example |
| 01:47.46 | Michaelh | I don't have to in this case, it's easy enough to c hange by hand |
| 01:47.46 | Tupone | patch again :) |
| 01:48.17 | StargateSG1 | we were talking that the best solution for now is to probably just disable the actual anonymous option itself |
| 01:48.32 | StargateSG1 | -anonymous, that is -- leaving the behavior the same, just not making it so easy |
| 01:48.33 | Tupone | cvs update -j ? |
| 01:49.25 | *** join/#bzflag scanlime (~micah@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 01:49.32 | *** join/#bzflag purple_cow (~jupiter@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 01:49.52 | Michaelh | god has spoken however and told me to revert my patches |
| 01:50.00 | StargateSG1 | i usually cvs update -r previous_version file.cxx && mv file.cxx file.cxx.new && cvs update -A file.cxx && mv file.cxx.new file.cxx && cvs commit -m "reverted" file.cxx |
| 01:51.22 | Tupone | Michaelh: if nobody as touched the file you could take the old version with -p and redirect to a file |
| 01:51.35 | Michaelh | oh well already done |
| 01:52.05 | Tupone | if somebody has, you have to cvs update -j newrel -joldrel filetorevert |
| 01:52.19 | Tupone | that is a merge |
| 01:52.46 | StargateSG1 | or that, but I never remember the syntax :) |
| 01:53.09 | *** join/#bzflag doughecka (~rooot@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net) |
| 01:53.39 | StargateSG1 | until i have to merge a branch or something |
| 01:54.15 | Tupone | but you cannot just revert a file if someone else as worked on that :) |
| 01:54.34 | Tupone | that merge (if the syntax is ok) should manage that |
| 01:57.35 | StargateSG1 | Michaelh: was the patch closed? |
| 01:57.46 | Michaelh | eh? |
| 01:57.53 | Michaelh | Never was a patch really :) |
| 01:57.57 | StargateSG1 | ah, ok |
| 01:58.22 | StargateSG1 | can you make it one, if you plan to revert everything? |
| 01:58.34 | Michaelh | I guess I should just and randomly hack on something that is important |
| 01:58.39 | Michaelh | I could |
| 01:58.41 | Michaelh | I suppose |
| 01:58.58 | StargateSG1 | otherwise, just disable the new client option |
| 01:59.08 | Michaelh | God told me to revert it :) |
| 01:59.17 | StargateSG1 | I believe Tim can be convinced that the menu is good stuff |
| 01:59.34 | Michaelh | I can make a patch I suppose |
| 01:59.48 | StargateSG1 | or we can fix bzdb |
| 01:59.59 | StargateSG1 | still, the basic problem was no -anonymous switch |
| 02:01.11 | Michaelh | imho set anonymous 1 makes more sence than email "" |
| 02:01.53 | Michaelh | at least from a UI perspective |
| 02:01.56 | StargateSG1 | it does, but that is specifically what tim does not want -- player to think that they are anonymous |
| 02:02.12 | Michaelh | I understand that notion as well |
| 02:02.35 | Michaelh | we could like make them totally paranoid |
| 02:02.55 | Michaelh | you know, start tracking their information and posting it publically |
| 02:02.57 | Michaelh | .... |
| 02:03.06 | Michaelh | So and so has MB free on drive C |
| 02:03.26 | Michaelh | "For good porn try callsign x" |
| 02:03.46 | StargateSG1 | at worst, all that needs to be done is disable -anonymous and disallow empty field in the menu gui |
| 02:04.42 | StargateSG1 | but probably just the first |
| 02:05.45 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~JeffM@adsl-64-167-79-246.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 02:05.45 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 02:06.54 | Michaelh | I've reverted it but I'll make a patch as well |
| 02:07.26 | StargateSG1 | *sigh* |
| 02:10.23 | Michaelh | hard to disobey god |
| 02:10.23 | Michaelh | :) |
| 02:10.34 | Tupone | StargateSG1: something like "Breaking" its not enough? |
| 02:11.31 | Michaelh | This is what should be currently implemented, and the reason for it. |
| 02:11.38 | Michaelh | Please revert your patches. |
| 02:11.38 | Michaelh | -- |
| 02:11.38 | Michaelh | Tim Riker - http://rikers.org/ - TimR@Debian.org |
| 02:11.38 | StargateSG1 | phearless leader yes, god no ;) just hard to convince sometimes |
| 02:12.08 | Michaelh | It's not hard stuff to do |
| 02:12.09 | StargateSG1 | and then afterwords we had a discussion here -- we you here? |
| 02:12.13 | Michaelh | a few lines basically |
| 02:12.25 | Michaelh | I believe so |
| 02:12.26 | StargateSG1 | s/we you/were you/ |
| 02:12.32 | Michaelh | for at least one of them |
| 02:12.45 | Michaelh | I was here for at least some conversation about it |
| 02:12.51 | StargateSG1 | ah |
| 02:13.04 | Michaelh | it's kind of old junk really -- the email stuff |
| 02:13.31 | Michaelh | although it's interesting to see where everyone comes from -- their host and username |
| 02:13.41 | StargateSG1 | it's very nasty junk regardless trying to solve a social problem with technical means |
| 02:13.44 | *** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (~MAC@balt-209-163-100-71.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net) |
| 02:13.45 | Michaelh | and that was everyone in the old days I believe |
| 02:13.52 | Patlabor221 | phearless? |
| 02:13.56 | Patlabor221 | I think nay |
| 02:14.04 | StargateSG1 | phearless to say patches welcome :) |
| 02:14.37 | StargateSG1 | howdy apathy, what says you? |
| 02:16.58 | Michaelh | I think it's pretty obvious most people are in favor of some changes in the email thingee |
| 02:18.35 | MrApathyCream | huh? |
| 02:19.00 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o MrApathyCream] by ChanServ |
| 02:19.30 | StargateSG1 | have you seen the e-mail menu MrApathyCream? |
| 02:19.40 | MrApathyCream | yes |
| 02:19.45 | MrApathyCream | talked with Michaelh yesterday |
| 02:19.54 | StargateSG1 | think it should be reverted |
| 02:19.58 | StargateSG1 | fully ;) |
| 02:20.16 | MrApathyCream | you're saying you do? |
| 02:20.24 | StargateSG1 | of course not |
| 02:20.28 | MrApathyCream | ah |
| 02:20.34 | MrApathyCream | is that an issues? |
| 02:20.35 | StargateSG1 | someone else does, though :) |
| 02:20.36 | Patlabor221 | but dosn't someone want it? |
| 02:21.05 | StargateSG1 | heh |
| 02:21.13 | Michaelh | there only seems to be one that doesn't want it... |
| 02:21.40 | Patlabor221 | perhaps it interferes with his karma plan |
| 02:22.13 | MrApathyCream | doesn't want the menu, or doesn't want the extra anonymous setting |
| 02:22.42 | Patlabor221 | if the menu stays, what to set the mail too if it's blank? |
| 02:22.57 | MrApathyCream | i would say blank |
| 02:23.08 | Patlabor221 | so efectively anon |
| 02:23.08 | Michaelh | I just set another variable because I sick of trying to figure out bzdb works |
| 02:23.21 | Michaelh | I set anonymous 1 or 0 |
| 02:23.23 | MrApathyCream | that would make sense to me |
| 02:23.24 | Michaelh | :) |
| 02:23.59 | MrApathyCream | i don't have a problem as to how it's impled |
| 02:23.59 | Patlabor221 | if the issues is not wanting to give people anon, then just making it blank is the same as making it anon |
| 02:24.08 | StargateSG1 | Michaelh: the bzdb writes itself out in StateDatabase::write -- though the problem is probably upon read actually |
| 02:24.12 | Patlabor221 | perhaps bzflag should have an SMTP server in it so it can verify your mail addy before you play |
| 02:24.33 | Michaelh | new feature .. bzspam |
| 02:24.33 | Patlabor221 | then some sort of retinal scan |
| 02:24.34 | MrApathyCream | so long as you can bogus info in there, anon should be allowed |
| 02:24.38 | Michaelh | heh |
| 02:25.11 | MrApathyCream | i didn't think this would be a big issue |
| 02:25.17 | Patlabor221 | noone did |
| 02:25.51 | Patlabor221 | if it does make a problem for karma, that's fine, as long as that is the real reason |
| 02:27.06 | Patlabor221 | was any aditional reason given? |
| 02:27.38 | StargateSG1 | not a karma issue |
| 02:28.06 | Patlabor221 | so just a "don't like anon" ? |
| 02:28.30 | StargateSG1 | Tim's reason, and one I happen to "understand" to some extent is that he doesn't want users to have the impression that they are anonymous |
| 02:28.39 | Patlabor221 | then remove anon |
| 02:28.42 | Patlabor221 | as a feature |
| 02:28.42 | StargateSG1 | effort to discourage misbehavior |
| 02:28.47 | Patlabor221 | ok |
| 02:28.52 | StargateSG1 | that's what ches and I said |
| 02:28.55 | Patlabor221 | so are you gonna verify what is put in there? |
| 02:29.08 | Patlabor221 | make sure it has an @ and a . ? |
| 02:29.20 | StargateSG1 | no no.. just no -anonymous switch |
| 02:29.30 | Patlabor221 | so you can still put anything in there |
| 02:29.31 | StargateSG1 | and perhaps no anonymous var in bzdb |
| 02:29.37 | Patlabor221 | so it's efectivly anon |
| 02:29.46 | Patlabor221 | they just have to type something |
| 02:29.54 | StargateSG1 | right -- tim was fine with that |
| 02:30.01 | StargateSG1 | just as long as it is something |
| 02:30.06 | Patlabor221 | I don't see how that really changes how people act |
| 02:30.11 | Patlabor221 | noone will put a real mail in there |
| 02:30.16 | Patlabor221 | so the point is kinda moot |
| 02:30.29 | Patlabor221 | your relying on obfuscation for some sort of social controll |
| 02:30.45 | StargateSG1 | i don't either, but I can make a concession for that since the default is something |
| 02:30.54 | StargateSG1 | and newbies are the worst offenders |
| 02:31.07 | Michaelh | people don't mince words around here do they |
| 02:31.08 | Patlabor221 | it's right on the join server page? |
| 02:31.14 | Patlabor221 | where the callsign is? |
| 02:31.17 | StargateSG1 | heh, I just said that before you arrived.. technical solution to a social problem == not good |
| 02:31.21 | Michaelh | yep |
| 02:31.25 | Michaelh | yes more or less |
| 02:31.39 | Patlabor221 | most players are windows, the name that shows there will NOT be a valid mail address by default, so they are anon no mater what |
| 02:31.45 | *** join/#bzflag scanline (~micah@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 02:32.05 | Patlabor221 | how you gonna go after valuedgatewayuser@P600.workgroup |
| 02:32.16 | Michaelh | heh |
| 02:32.26 | *** join/#bzflag captain_proton (~blardebla@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 02:32.26 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o captain_proton] by ChanServ |
| 02:32.34 | StargateSG1 | it's not a valid e-mail for just about everyone now |
| 02:32.38 | MrApathyCream | its a silly distinction, but i don't care if they have to put something in there even if boo@hoo.com |
| 02:32.42 | Patlabor221 | or the ever popular admininstrator@CBFJ34DF |
| 02:32.55 | Patlabor221 | yes it is silly |
| 02:33.01 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (bryjen@ky-owensboro1a-242.owboky.adelphia.net) |
| 02:33.07 | Patlabor221 | that means just as much as nothing |
| 02:33.24 | MrApathyCream | agreed |
| 02:33.36 | StargateSG1 | We need a new field, one for team/league status -- that is what belongs on the scoreboard -- not e-mails |
| 02:33.37 | MrApathyCream | i suppose they could just put in a space, to be anonymous |
| 02:33.38 | Patlabor221 | it's kinda an insult to the players |
| 02:33.45 | Patlabor221 | hoping to trap them |
| 02:34.01 | StargateSG1 | then have an info panel like most games that gives you the extra info like that default e-mail, ip to admins, etc |
| 02:34.05 | Patlabor221 | change the default to nothing, and rename the feild |
| 02:34.13 | Patlabor221 | what is the point of publishing an e-mail? |
| 02:34.23 | Patlabor221 | in these days of spam that is a disadvantage |
| 02:34.35 | StargateSG1 | well some players actually use it, for better or worse |
| 02:34.49 | Patlabor221 | if you want to use mail for karma, fine but keep it private, like bzbb does |
| 02:35.24 | Patlabor221 | ok so make the mail an optional display |
| 02:35.33 | Patlabor221 | if you want to use it you have to turn it on |
| 02:35.46 | Patlabor221 | people go on the net to be anon |
| 02:35.48 | Patlabor221 | that's the point of it |
| 02:35.51 | StargateSG1 | i don't think it should be displayed at all -- even if it does discourage misbehavior |
| 02:36.10 | Patlabor221 | I can't see how it would discourage anyone |
| 02:36.15 | StargateSG1 | having a registration and/or karma system in place will do better to thwart that |
| 02:36.29 | Patlabor221 | yeah big time |
| 02:36.47 | Patlabor221 | change the field to "team" |
| 02:36.59 | Patlabor221 | that is its defacto use right now IIRC |
| 02:37.46 | StargateSG1 | it's one of 3 uses: 1) default user@hostname 2) team/league 3) blank/empty |
| 02:37.59 | StargateSG1 | only 2 being actually useful |
| 02:37.59 | Patlabor221 | 1 is pointless on windows |
| 02:38.11 | Patlabor221 | yeah 2 is what I think most use it for |
| 02:38.32 | bryjen | ive actually got my email addy in there. but im just weird. ;) |
| 02:38.32 | StargateSG1 | 1 is pointless on os x, too as localnames resolve to their rendevous address (chiko.local for me, for example) |
| 02:38.48 | StargateSG1 | heh |
| 02:38.49 | CIA | Modified Files: LocalPlayer.cxx Log Message:Stop antistuck when not alive |
| 02:39.04 | Patlabor221 | I wonder what the platform useage percentages are |
| 02:39.10 | Patlabor221 | is the version sent to the list server? |
| 02:39.26 | StargateSG1 | not yet |
| 02:39.29 | StargateSG1 | but soon |
| 02:39.46 | StargateSG1 | wait, who's version? |
| 02:39.51 | Patlabor221 | the client |
| 02:39.58 | StargateSG1 | no, it's not |
| 02:40.11 | Patlabor221 | it would be nice to know the OS useage |
| 02:40.19 | Patlabor221 | and list server is a good place to track that |
| 02:40.37 | StargateSG1 | talked about rejecting clients with a message via server option based on regexp match |
| 02:40.46 | Patlabor221 | I know |
| 02:40.53 | Patlabor221 | that is client->game server tho |
| 02:40.53 | MrApathyCream | we could prove once and for all, that it's the mac guys, who are the cheaters :) |
| 02:41.05 | Patlabor221 | I just want to know how many more windows users there are then others |
| 02:41.12 | StargateSG1 | heh |
| 02:41.25 | Patlabor221 | it is a fact |
| 02:41.29 | Patlabor221 | at least in the downloads |
| 02:41.59 | bryjen | just means they're having to wipe their HDDs and rebuild more often ;) |
| 02:42.27 | Patlabor221 | hey jokes aside, it is important info |
| 02:42.33 | Patlabor221 | they are the core reason this game is here |
| 02:42.40 | Patlabor221 | with out them there would be no point |
| 02:42.54 | Michaelh | Send us your wretched masses |
| 02:43.00 | Michaelh | yearning for Word |
| 02:43.00 | CIA | New file: src/bzflag/stars.h Deleted file: src/bzflag/stars.cxx |
| 02:43.18 | Patlabor221 | downloads wont' do it cus there are the apt users |
| 02:43.31 | bryjen | i think Linux users have more of a "need" for the game. 'doze users can just go to the store and -buy- games |
| 02:43.46 | Patlabor221 | but so far on SF, noone has got source, 71 people have goten RH*+ rpms, and allmost 800 people have goten windows |
| 02:43.51 | MrApathyCream | yes but we're cheap bastages |
| 02:44.14 | bryjen | MrAC: at least half right. now, which one.... ;) |
| 02:44.23 | Michaelh | no one has gotten source? |
| 02:44.24 | Patlabor221 | bryjen: then how come so many windows users are out there, I think everyone plays free online games |
| 02:44.31 | Michaelh | Are these stats avail on the page there somewhere? |
| 02:44.34 | Patlabor221 | not for 1.10.2.a bunch of dates |
| 02:44.41 | Patlabor221 | the download page has the DL count |
| 02:44.51 | learner | odd stats.. |
| 02:44.52 | bryjen | Patlabor221: yeah, everybody likes free beer. |
| 02:44.58 | Patlabor221 | exactly |
| 02:45.06 | Patlabor221 | just the linux people have no bars to go too |
| 02:45.09 | bryjen | ugh. well, execpt me. pass the free MtDew |
| 02:45.18 | learner | version tracker shows 807 os x downloads for 1.10.2 |
| 02:45.22 | Patlabor221 | okk well they did, untill they went all closed and stuff |
| 02:45.43 | Patlabor221 | I show 136 for the DMG |
| 02:46.14 | learner | right.. counting isn't right -- i noticed it was rather delayed a couple weeks ago, but now it just looks wrong |
| 02:46.18 | Patlabor221 | and like I say, since we don't have a centeral place for downlaods it's a bad metric |
| 02:46.18 | bryjen | i wonder how many people are getting source from anon cvs.. |
| 02:46.25 | Patlabor221 | everyone connects to the list server |
| 02:46.32 | Patlabor221 | yeah that's another |
| 02:47.04 | Patlabor221 | just to see what OSs all the conenctions are form, would be a nice indicator of usage |
| 02:47.10 | learner | versiontracker downloads come from sf |
| 02:47.23 | learner | but I agree, the metric would be interesting |
| 02:47.25 | Patlabor221 | sure there is not a good way to say "X many people play" |
| 02:47.30 | Patlabor221 | but it's at least something |
| 02:48.09 | Patlabor221 | it would also be nice to know what the servers run |
| 02:48.10 | bryjen | speaking of "how many people are playing?", hashmark's counts are still screwey with 1.10.3 |
| 02:48.22 | Patlabor221 | so client features can be targets to clients, and server features to the OS servers use |
| 02:48.37 | Patlabor221 | like maybe piping is usefull if 95% of the servers are nixies |
| 02:49.12 | learner | hrm.. the stats are broken.. I downloaded the slackware release over a week ago to test the stats.. it's still 0 |
| 02:51.30 | Michaelh | it's a conspiracy |
| 02:54.58 | bryjen | hmm.. it seems to be forcing all new players to be observers... |
| 02:55.57 | learner | only when the server thinks it's full |
| 02:56.00 | learner | or is full |
| 02:56.55 | bryjen | _thinks_ |
| 02:57.27 | learner | hashmark? |
| 02:58.35 | bryjen | yeah |
| 02:58.48 | bryjen | bzflist |
| 02:58.50 | learner | do you have the config? |
| 02:58.57 | bryjen | no |
| 02:58.59 | bryjen | ~bzflist |
| 02:59.11 | bryjen | ~bzfquery bzflag.hashmark.net |
| 02:59.54 | learner | lotta mac users there |
| 03:01.07 | bryjen | what, the two .local s? |
| 03:02.30 | learner | yeah, and maybe the appel guy :) |
| 03:03.02 | MrApathyCream | awww i miss all the good chatter. --> Tim was on for an extended period i see |
| 03:03.18 | learner | yup |
| 03:03.56 | *** join/#bzflag captain_pistachi (~blardebla@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 03:03.56 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o captain_pistachi] by ChanServ |
| 03:04.19 | MrApathyCream | hmmm, so if we want to do new stuff we can branch for that feature is that what i read? |
| 03:04.29 | learner | so you see that I couldn't quite get tim to go for making a maintenance branch |
| 03:04.34 | learner | just yet, at least |
| 03:04.46 | learner | nobody was there to reinforce the idea |
| 03:05.02 | MrApathyCream | bummer |
| 03:05.07 | MrApathyCream | seems pretty obvious to mee |
| 03:05.10 | *** join/#bzflag FearPasion710 (~FearPasio@c-24-126-130-94.we.client2.attbi.com) |
| 03:05.18 | FearPasion710 | i have no sound |
| 03:05.30 | FearPasion710 | whats the command to route through arts? |
| 03:05.38 | learner | that is what you read.. he okay'd a branch -- though that is not nearly as useful as a maintenance branch for 1.10 |
| 03:05.52 | MrApathyCream | no i agree |
| 03:06.04 | bryjen | artsdsp bzflag |
| 03:06.14 | FearPasion710 | k let me try |
| 03:06.16 | learner | could probably convince him if chestal can be convinced that we are "suitably stable" |
| 03:06.24 | bryjen | going thru a sound server may not prove optimal |
| 03:06.48 | MrApathyCream | learner: chestal is never stable |
| 03:06.50 | MrApathyCream | :) |
| 03:06.56 | bryjen | ie lag between when the game makes a sound and where it comes out |
| 03:07.00 | MrApathyCream | the squirrels are too irrational |
| 03:07.05 | learner | chestal feels it's not as stable as 1.7 and he would like to see it at least that much (though I think it's more so for some parts) |
| 03:07.07 | bryjen | s/where/when |
| 03:07.15 | learner | heh |
| 03:07.33 | MrApathyCream | i don't see anything on bugs of any consequence |
| 03:07.39 | Patlabor221 | only way to get leauge stable is with play testing |
| 03:07.40 | MrApathyCream | so start posting the unstablyness |
| 03:08.05 | FearPasion710 | it still dosent work |
| 03:08.09 | FearPasion710 | i still get no sound? |
| 03:08.13 | FearPasion710 | :( |
| 03:08.25 | MrApathyCream | can't we just wrap glbegin/end in a class ctor/dtor pair? |
| 03:08.53 | DangerWillRobins | that's overkill best thing is to wrap up each drawing thingy |
| 03:08.57 | DangerWillRobins | so it just does itself |
| 03:09.01 | learner | i wrapped it in a macro, but haven't gotten back to testing it -- forgot what I was doing ;) |
| 03:09.02 | DangerWillRobins | cus they can't be nested ether |
| 03:09.03 | *** join/#bzflag scanline (~micah@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 03:09.04 | *** join/#bzflag purple_cow (~jupiter@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 03:09.27 | FearPasion710 | this sucks! |
| 03:09.31 | learner | but I don't think the problem is necessarily the end/begin's even if they are out of whack |
| 03:09.34 | bryjen | hey learner |
| 03:09.36 | FearPasion710 | i dont have sound in bzflag |
| 03:09.36 | learner | it's with lighting |
| 03:09.42 | *** join/#bzflag captain_pistachi (~blardebla@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 03:09.42 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o captain_pistachi] by ChanServ |
| 03:09.53 | learner | fearpasion: linux, right? |
| 03:10.02 | FearPasion710 | yes |
| 03:10.03 | DangerWillRobins | well learner and something is fuggin up the clear and z buffer state |
| 03:10.11 | DangerWillRobins | I think it's more then just onet hing |
| 03:10.11 | learner | try turning off your sound manager(s) |
| 03:10.11 | FearPasion710 | Gentoo to be excact |
| 03:10.20 | FearPasion710 | k. |
| 03:10.30 | learner | DangerWill: me too |
| 03:10.36 | DangerWillRobins | if it was just a begin end thing, it would get jacked really fast, not on a activate and deactivate |
| 03:10.37 | FearPasion710 | ok it wokr like that! |
| 03:10.42 | learner | make sure the processes are killed |
| 03:10.56 | FearPasion710 | but then i wont get sound in kde without arts |
| 03:11.02 | learner | yep |
| 03:11.10 | FearPasion710 | ok |
| 03:11.13 | FearPasion710 | well thanks |
| 03:11.16 | learner | the sound manager is rude, or we aren't talking correctly |
| 03:11.17 | DangerWillRobins | what card do you have? |
| 03:11.26 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-1 (~CIA-1@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 03:11.40 | FearPasion710 | intel 5.1 soround |
| 03:11.42 | DangerWillRobins | if your card dosn't support multiple channels, then the kde sournds are waht are geting in the way of your sounds |
| 03:11.46 | DangerWillRobins | ahh onboard |
| 03:11.51 | DangerWillRobins | probably only one channel |
| 03:12.00 | DangerWillRobins | you get sound from KDE or bzflag, pick one |
| 03:12.02 | FearPasion710 | Abit IT7 MAX2 v2.0 |
| 03:12.14 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-2_____ (~CIA-2____@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 03:12.15 | learner | does an mpeg player work for you? |
| 03:12.20 | FearPasion710 | yup |
| 03:12.26 | FearPasion710 | xmms and xine work fine |
| 03:12.31 | Michaelh | all these weird movie nicks |
| 03:12.40 | FearPasion710 | i think Gentoo is just being gay! |
| 03:12.45 | Michaelh | heh |
| 03:12.55 | learner | then it's probably something we're doing wrong -- but at least the workaround will get it working for now until someone can fix it |
| 03:13.01 | DangerWillRobins | Gentoo's happyness probably has nothing to do with it |
| 03:13.05 | FearPasion710 | lol |
| 03:13.19 | learner | ~dict pasion |
| 03:13.26 | bryjen | ~spell pasion |
| 03:13.30 | | possible spellings for pasion: Passion passion pas ion pas-ion potion Passions passions Payson parson pain pion poison pension fashion Persian patio portion Asian Patin Paton suasion Nation Patton Payton cation fusion lesion nation pardon patios pinion ration vision |
| 03:13.34 | learner | ;) |
| 03:13.38 | bryjen | ~dict passion |
| 03:13.40 | Michaelh | piles of people submitting feature requests, bug reports |
| 03:13.41 | DangerWillRobins | what ever it is, he must be rather scared of it |
| 03:13.44 | FearPasion710 | umm........ |
| 03:13.46 | FearPasion710 | ALSA |
| 03:13.53 | FearPasion710 | i forgot to compile bzflag with alsa! |
| 03:13.57 | FearPasion710 | lol |
| 03:13.59 | FearPasion710 | brb |
| 03:14.03 | learner | that'll do it too |
| 03:14.13 | Michaelh | we need a new "canned response" : You're stupid! |
| 03:14.13 | bryjen | xmms can probly go thru arts. it works with esd. |
| 03:14.52 | bryjen | ~educate Michaelh |
| 03:14.57 | | ACTION teaches Michaelh the basics, including how to RTM. |
| 03:14.58 | FearPasion710 | yup |
| 03:15.06 | FearPasion710 | im compiling bzflag righ now |
| 03:15.28 | Michaelh | so it's rtm and not rtfm ? |
| 03:15.38 | FearPasion710 | exec |
| 03:15.44 | bryjen | no fsckin' |
| 03:15.56 | FearPasion710 | \exec |
| 03:16.00 | Michaelh | is ibot g-rated? |
| 03:16.10 | bryjen | ibot sucks |
| 03:16.12 | | If you got $5 I'll do more than that! |
| 03:16.12 | DangerWillRobins | she generaly is |
| 03:16.16 | DangerWillRobins | unless you do that |
| 03:16.21 | DangerWillRobins | ibot who is your daddy |
| 03:16.22 | | YOU are, Mr. Sexy Pants |
| 03:16.22 | Michaelh | heh |
| 03:16.33 | bryjen | well then |
| 03:17.20 | learner | MrApathyCream: so I'm thinking if we can clear out a few more bugs and appease chestal, (perhaps next weekend) then it'll probably be a good compromise to release a 1.10.4 and make a maintenance branch |
| 03:17.59 | MrApathyCream | what 'bugs' is chestal hot about? |
| 03:18.11 | FearPasion710 | k done |
| 03:18.12 | FearPasion710 | hold on |
| 03:18.14 | learner | i think the graphics bug(s) are his biggest quom |
| 03:18.30 | MrApathyCream | can anyone besides his two squirrel's reproduce them? |
| 03:18.56 | *** join/#bzflag [Draco] (~[Draco]@arachnotron.net) |
| 03:19.04 | [Draco] | Hey, anybody online :) |
| 03:19.09 | MrApathyCream | no |
| 03:19.10 | bryjen | no :) |
| 03:19.18 | learner | i can reproduce the lighting bug crash -- which is pretty severe, imo |
| 03:19.18 | [Draco] | :) |
| 03:19.30 | MrApathyCream | what one is that? |
| 03:19.50 | learner | if lighting is turned on, the machine crashes :) |
| 03:19.55 | [Draco] | Is somebody able to make the new version .... i think .10 able to run on Gentoo Linux |
| 03:20.08 | bryjen | learner: subtle |
| 03:20.21 | MrApathyCream | learner: i run with lighting all the time |
| 03:20.45 | Tupone | I can reproduce the changing video resolution bug |
| 03:22.17 | MrApathyCream | is this a big issue? |
| 03:22.25 | MrApathyCream | who changes resolutions? |
| 03:22.27 | [Draco] | Ok, this is the trouble... i dont have root access on my system so I have to install everything at my home... So i download the new Bzflag, unzip it and do ./autogen.sh and ./configure and then do "make && make install"....then I go and start bzflag and all I get is a balck screen |
| 03:22.33 | learner | on osx, I had to permanently disable it |
| 03:22.38 | learner | it == lighting |
| 03:23.09 | MrApathyCream | [Draco]: it probably can't find your data directory |
| 03:23.14 | learner | bzflag corrupts the opengl pipeline so bad that it brings down the display server which eventually hoses the input loop |
| 03:23.29 | learner | so you can't quit the game and restore |
| 03:23.32 | [Draco] | MrApathyCream: you know how to mabey fix it |
| 03:23.59 | MrApathyCream | specify a -directory parm to bzflag? |
| 03:24.36 | learner | MrApathyCream: there have been bug reports on sourceforge with very similar lighting characteristics on both windows, linux, and mac -- just the severity and frequency varies |
| 03:24.40 | [Draco] | how would you do that, sorry for asking many question, I just new to Linux and heard that this game should be fun |
| 03:24.43 | Tupone | MrApathyCream: seems that changin resolution has the same effect has alt-Tab on Windows: grass, and a lot more is messed up |
| 03:24.50 | learner | it's very hard to debug it here, though :( |
| 03:25.04 | MrApathyCream | Tupone: alt-tab has been around since 1.7g0 |
| 03:25.07 | MrApathyCream | probably before |
| 03:25.39 | learner | the problem somehow became an order of magnitude worse for 1.10 than 1.7 (once every few minutes, as opposed to once every few hours) |
| 03:25.41 | MrApathyCream | [draco] you need to find where your data directory is, look for a file bbolt.png for instance |
| 03:26.00 | MrApathyCream | learner: i don't alt-tab every few minutes :) |
| 03:26.05 | [Draco] | what data directory, i got lots of them |
| 03:26.12 | MrApathyCream | then start bzflag like |
| 03:26.25 | MrApathyCream | bzflag -directory /use/windows/instead |
| 03:26.28 | Tupone | [Draco]: run etcat -f bzflag |
| 03:26.37 | MrApathyCream | assuming that the data directory is under 'instead' |
| 03:26.41 | learner | MrApathyCream: I'm not sure if the alt-tab is the same problem -- the os x client can't swap out, so I'm only referring to lighting |
| 03:26.48 | Tupone | you shou;d have a list of all the file |
| 03:26.51 | learner | they may be related, though |
| 03:26.57 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-1 (~CIA-1@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 03:27.04 | learner | yay, CIA-1 |
| 03:27.06 | [Draco] | Tupone: says etcat: command not found |
| 03:27.36 | Tupone | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:27.53 | [Draco] | ok...i go search for it... |
| 03:28.02 | bryjen | or locate bbolt.png |
| 03:28.03 | learner | [Draco]: if you don't have root, make install would have not completed correctly |
| 03:28.24 | learner | needed to ./configure --prefix=~/. or something |
| 03:28.54 | learner | otherwise it's looking in /usr/local for your files |
| 03:28.59 | MrApathyCream | again i say: excapt for perhaps macosx lighting crashes, is there anything of significance? |
| 03:29.13 | learner | ah, missed the again |
| 03:29.14 | MrApathyCream | and since non can fix but learner and friends .... |
| 03:29.30 | learner | there's the list server counts |
| 03:29.41 | learner | shooting while inbuilding |
| 03:29.50 | Tupone | shooting has been fixed |
| 03:29.55 | learner | yay |
| 03:30.00 | MrApathyCream | Tupone: remove from bugs? |
| 03:30.22 | Tupone | Normally I waiy someone else to try |
| 03:30.39 | MrApathyCream | what do you do, pause inside a building? |
| 03:31.04 | Tupone | what happened is that the snapshot take too long now. |
| 03:31.12 | learner | chestal's biggest complaint was the graphics and bzdb |
| 03:31.14 | [Draco] | got no folder called /usr/bin/etcat |
| 03:31.16 | Tupone | it should be fixed :( |
| 03:31.16 | MrApathyCream | oh take a snapshot |
| 03:31.17 | MrApathyCream | ok |
| 03:31.31 | Tupone | the server declare client nr |
| 03:31.44 | Tupone | the server ask to drop flag |
| 03:31.47 | learner | so shinyness problem, alt-tab/video format changes, and lighting |
| 03:31.56 | Tupone | spam in middle-air |
| 03:32.02 | MrApathyCream | does anyone have the shinyness problem? |
| 03:32.17 | MrApathyCream | besides frik and frak |
| 03:32.36 | learner | just frik, afaik -- frak is okay |
| 03:33.21 | [Draco] | Yeah says the data directory can not be found |
| 03:33.27 | [Draco] | so in other word i need damm root |
| 03:33.31 | MrApathyCream | tupone worked for me |
| 03:33.40 | [Draco] | ls |
| 03:33.42 | [Draco] | ops |
| 03:34.06 | MrApathyCream | so as i see it |
| 03:34.13 | MrApathyCream | alt-tab/format change and macos lighting |
| 03:34.32 | bryjen | [Draco]: did you specify a --prefix= when you did configure ? |
| 03:34.43 | [Draco] | no |
| 03:34.44 | learner | MrApathyCream: feel free to hunt for the glend/begin problem too.. i have the start of some macros at the top of http://brlcad.org/bzflag/cvs/include/common.h -- I have to wonder off for a lil bit |
| 03:34.54 | MrApathyCream | ok |
| 03:34.59 | [Draco] | mabey i should redo everytinhg |
| 03:35.06 | learner | need to put beginendCount into bzflag.cxx so it can link |
| 03:35.06 | [Draco] | i did lots of stuff out of order |
| 03:35.19 | bryjen | try configure --prefix=~/ and make again, that way make install should put everything under your home |
| 03:35.42 | learner | even better, replace ~ with your real path just to be safe |
| 03:36.02 | bryjen | yeah /home/whatever/ |
| 03:36.06 | [Draco] | you mean my /home/maurice |
| 03:36.12 | learner | yes |
| 03:36.27 | [Draco] | ok its running it |
| 03:36.31 | learner | and make clean |
| 03:36.43 | [Draco] | make clean? |
| 03:36.52 | learner | after configure finishes, yes |
| 03:37.11 | [Draco] | you mean type "make" |
| 03:37.22 | learner | after doing make clean, do make |
| 03:37.30 | [Draco] | ok |
| 03:37.34 | bryjen | ./configure --prefix=/home/maurice/ ; make clean ; make ; make install |
| 03:37.35 | CIA-1 | 03atupone * 12bzflag/ (BUGS): No more bug on shooting inside building. Performance note on png |
| 03:37.38 | learner | i don't think we have any constants in the code, but I'm not betting your install on it ;) |
| 03:38.11 | [Draco] | ok on the make part |
| 03:38.38 | bryjen | make clean removes what it made before, so you can start fresh |
| 03:38.49 | Tupone | MrApathyCream: Spawn code sometimes spawns you mid-air, is an issue? |
| 03:38.50 | [Draco] | yeah, thats already done |
| 03:39.14 | [Draco] | Thanks a lot for the help ;) |
| 03:39.22 | bryjen | your welcome |
| 03:39.36 | Tupone | [Draco]: works now? |
| 03:39.45 | [Draco] | no, but i got to leave soon |
| 03:40.00 | [Draco] | its 10:37 pm here and i got wake up at 6 am tomorrow |
| 03:40.25 | Michaelh | has the killed by teammate thing been fixed? |
| 03:40.40 | [Draco] | How is the new version anywyays |
| 03:40.51 | bryjen | Tupone: it spawns you Z>0 if it takes too long finding a good spot. chestal was trying to keep Pentium 90 ducati from stalling while looking for a port |
| 03:40.54 | [Draco] | i heard bots are aviable now and LAN too |
| 03:41.23 | bryjen | err s/port/spot |
| 03:42.19 | Tupone | bryjen: could be also that it spawns near top of a building? |
| 03:43.14 | [Draco] | its funny... my comp still has a Intel Cerleron 2 |
| 03:43.25 | Tupone | I think we should spawn with at least the tank pos (middle point) being on the building |
| 03:43.42 | bryjen | yes. we also thought it may be that it thinks your on the edge, but when it actually was just within tankRadius |
| 03:43.44 | MrApathyCream | Tupone: spawn: i'm guessing player just falls off building |
| 03:44.08 | bryjen | there's that too, if you were right at the edge and started driving right away :) |
| 03:44.20 | [Draco] | hmmm ... its not doing anything .... |
| 03:44.23 | [Draco] | strange |
| 03:44.45 | [Draco] | nm...working now again |
| 03:45.41 | Tupone | I could try to avoid that |
| 03:46.20 | [Draco] | does the make install take long? |
| 03:46.36 | bryjen | it shouldn't |
| 03:46.42 | [Draco] | because the make is already taking long |
| 03:46.59 | bryjen | that should be the longest step |
| 03:47.21 | Tupone | make a try of bzflag before :), go to the directory where you run configure/make and do src/bzflag/bzflag |
| 03:48.04 | [Draco] | well, g2g, i stop by tomorrow if i run into some more problems... |
| 03:53.03 | CIA-1 | 03dbrosius * 12bzflag/ (2 files in 2 dirs): A way to enforce glBegin/glEnd matching |
| 03:53.35 | *** join/#bzflag doughecka (~rooot@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net) |
| 03:56.50 | MrApathyCream | OpenGLTexFont.:draw line 624 seems to be a risky use of begin/end pairs |
| 03:56.56 | MrApathyCream | it may be right, just rugly |
| 03:57.18 | bryjen | right ugly ? ;) |
| 03:58.24 | MrApathyCream | yup |
| 03:59.33 | DangerWillRobins | no if underline is true, you will get 2 begins |
| 04:00.18 | DangerWillRobins | uneless drawChar calls and end |
| 04:00.41 | DangerWillRobins | so it's not rugly, it's fulgy |
| 04:01.11 | DangerWillRobins | it needs a glEnd after all thsoe vert calls |
| 04:01.16 | MrApathyCream | there is an if (textures) glEnd at the bottom |
| 04:01.30 | DangerWillRobins | but follow it if underline is true |
| 04:01.56 | DangerWillRobins | on 619 you do a begin |
| 04:02.11 | MrApathyCream | yah this is messed up |
| 04:02.21 | MrApathyCream | that glEnd may not match anything too |
| 04:02.24 | DangerWillRobins | yeah |
| 04:02.31 | DangerWillRobins | I'm amazed it works |
| 04:02.34 | MrApathyCream | on 603 |
| 04:02.43 | MrApathyCream | you gonna fixee? |
| 04:02.45 | DangerWillRobins | I'll bet glError is full stuff |
| 04:02.57 | DangerWillRobins | nope I'm not cvs enabled to SF at the momoent |
| 04:03.36 | DangerWillRobins | how does it draw fonts if textures are off? |
| 04:03.50 | bryjen | there's a glEnd under the if at 602, so it was already begun before, then a begin,end pair around 614, then a begin at 624 to go begun again like it was afore the if |
| 04:04.17 | bryjen | go begun... sheesh |
| 04:04.20 | DangerWillRobins | but look after 624 |
| 04:04.22 | bryjen | wth is that |
| 04:04.27 | DangerWillRobins | we are in a begin then go down to another begin |
| 04:04.28 | DangerWillRobins | no end |
| 04:04.36 | CIA-1 | 03dbrosius * 12bzflag/ (BUGS): glBegin/end problem? |
| 04:04.46 | DangerWillRobins | just another begin on 659 |
| 04:04.53 | MrApathyCream | yah |
| 04:04.56 | MrApathyCream | it is really bad |
| 04:05.09 | DangerWillRobins | there should be an end at 635 |
| 04:05.19 | KR | been playing with 1.10.2 today - the fixes are noticeable, and improvements - thanks guys :) |
| 04:05.32 | bryjen | that's in an else block |
| 04:05.34 | KR | and Happy New Year, too! |
| 04:05.51 | MrApathyCream | if the filter is on, there's no glBegin |
| 04:05.56 | MrApathyCream | (at top) |
| 04:06.09 | DangerWillRobins | gawd like some indeting would kill those people |
| 04:06.51 | DangerWillRobins | the begin on 659 isn't in an else, it's after the else if |
| 04:07.05 | DangerWillRobins | it's inside (underline == true) |
| 04:07.26 | DangerWillRobins | just like the one on 624 |
| 04:07.34 | DangerWillRobins | so if it is true both would be called with no end |
| 04:07.42 | MrApathyCream | yupyup |
| 04:07.45 | bryjen | theres an else at 638 |
| 04:07.57 | DangerWillRobins | eww |
| 04:08.14 | DangerWillRobins | "ohh no our way is WAYY easyer to understand when your used to it" |
| 04:08.24 | DangerWillRobins | I guess that means when your retarded |
| 04:08.41 | bryjen | ibot: lobotomize DangerWillRobins |
| 04:08.43 | | bryjen: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox? |
| 04:08.45 | MrApathyCream | 565 and 659 would casuse to glBegins in a row |
| 04:09.41 | DangerWillRobins | mac I'm making with some indenting to see what is really up |
| 04:09.46 | DangerWillRobins | gimee a bit |
| 04:10.21 | bryjen | printout, hi-lighters, block coloring |
| 04:10.26 | DangerWillRobins | and people wonder why I indent my glBegin() glEndPairs() :) |
| 04:10.52 | *** join/#bzflag doughecka (~rooot@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net) |
| 04:11.27 | bryjen | unholy running if then if then else else if then else (insert curlies at random) |
| 04:11.56 | MrApathyCream | yah |
| 04:12.23 | MrApathyCream | do we really NOT want to glBegin if filtering is ON? |
| 04:12.46 | DangerWillRobins | eww a do while loop |
| 04:13.27 | DangerWillRobins | ick with another while right after it |
| 04:13.31 | DangerWillRobins | man is that stuff hard to read |
| 04:14.59 | DangerWillRobins | I doo lub code colapsing in VC 7.1 :) |
| 04:16.07 | DangerWillRobins | heh you can tell the person who wrote it got confused even |
| 04:16.12 | DangerWillRobins | comments "end of switch" |
| 04:22.57 | DangerWillRobins | man if there is a function that could use busting out into functions this is it |
| 04:26.03 | DangerWillRobins | damn I can't tell what it's trying to do |
| 04:26.51 | DangerWillRobins | the drawing and the controll characters are all mixed in |
| 04:27.15 | DangerWillRobins | I'd parse out the controll characters then make a DrawTextureChar and a DrawOldCrapyCardChar |
| 04:29.25 | DangerWillRobins | but looks like bryjen is right there is that else in there |
| 04:29.34 | DangerWillRobins | I still can't see what is suposed to be done |
| 04:29.51 | DangerWillRobins | if I follow it, it does a begin and end with out drawing anything |
| 04:30.00 | DangerWillRobins | at least in one part |
| 04:33.51 | DangerWillRobins | did learner just replace it with a macro that did an increment and decremtn? |
| 04:34.47 | MrApathyCream | not yet |
| 04:34.49 | MrApathyCream | i don't think |
| 04:34.56 | DangerWillRobins | that's gonna be the only way to see |
| 04:34.58 | MrApathyCream | he has one he's working on on his server i think |
| 04:35.12 | MrApathyCream | it doesn't enforce an glEnd however. |
| 04:35.23 | MrApathyCream | it just does debug-like tracking |
| 04:35.33 | DangerWillRobins | well that is a start to find out where your busted |
| 04:35.40 | DangerWillRobins | find a double begin |
| 04:35.51 | learner | found one? |
| 04:35.54 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-120-217.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 04:36.01 | DangerWillRobins | no, we are saying you can use your macros too |
| 04:36.07 | DangerWillRobins | I can't read this font code |
| 04:36.12 | DangerWillRobins | it's all willy/nilly |
| 04:36.22 | learner | what're those classes you added? |
| 04:36.34 | DangerWillRobins | who added? |
| 04:36.39 | DangerWillRobins | me added? |
| 04:36.41 | learner | mac |
| 04:36.42 | learner | sorry |
| 04:37.54 | MrApathyCream | a way to enforce that glBegin isn't nested, and that glEnd is called for every glBegin |
| 04:38.09 | MrApathyCream | currently not used |
| 04:38.46 | DangerWillRobins | that is a good thing, but I think that places where it's busted now need to be found, cus it used to work, this means something changed, and there may be something that is not working as it should |
| 04:38.50 | learner | i made a macro that hijacks the glBegin/End with a little counter and outputs an error when we try to begin before ending or end before begining |
| 04:39.05 | MrApathyCream | rightx2 |
| 04:39.13 | DangerWillRobins | can you do a debug assert and break where it's doing a double begin? |
| 04:39.35 | learner | um, assert what? assert the counter? |
| 04:39.49 | DangerWillRobins | assert whatever your testing, jsut to break |
| 04:39.59 | DangerWillRobins | we can assert any condition |
| 04:39.59 | MrApathyCream | assert( counter <= 1); |
| 04:40.02 | DangerWillRobins | sure |
| 04:40.15 | DangerWillRobins | or put a conditional breakpoint |
| 04:40.21 | DangerWillRobins | something to see the callstack |
| 04:40.40 | learner | it prints out a file:line right now |
| 04:40.48 | DangerWillRobins | use that slickerlish Xcode debuger thingy you got :) |
| 04:40.54 | learner | i have to make sure "it works" though |
| 04:40.55 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 04:41.00 | learner | i'm not in xcode right now |
| 04:41.09 | DangerWillRobins | then get in it :) |
| 04:41.39 | learner | i can, now that I've fixed the singleton problems, but there's more cleanup needed in there than I care to touch tonight before it'll compile |
| 04:42.06 | DangerWillRobins | glMakePurdy(GL_TTRUE); |
| 04:42.37 | MrApathyCream | tupone you still here? |
| 04:42.37 | scanline | glDisable(GL_CRUFT); |
| 04:42.49 | DangerWillRobins | ahh you mean the wgl stuff then :) |
| 04:42.53 | Tupone | yeah, other few minute |
| 04:43.09 | MrApathyCream | the tank parts bug is fixed? remove from BUGS? |
| 04:43.33 | Tupone | yeah. Fixed |
| 04:43.40 | MrApathyCream | so remove from BUGS |
| 04:43.43 | MrApathyCream | thansk |
| 04:44.10 | DangerWillRobins | hmm don't think Tim ever answerd my hardware/software direction question |
| 04:44.26 | learner | he answers questions? :) |
| 04:44.35 | MrApathyCream | 'we should support software as long as it is expected" |
| 04:44.36 | DangerWillRobins | when the moon is full |
| 04:44.41 | MrApathyCream | "i don't think that time has come yet" |
| 04:44.55 | DangerWillRobins | but I wasn't saying desupport software |
| 04:44.58 | DangerWillRobins | just target hardware |
| 04:45.04 | DangerWillRobins | software would still work |
| 04:45.20 | learner | well, I'm the only one that has come even close to getting bzflag to run on an irix box, so it's just about time to rule out an indigo :) |
| 04:45.21 | MrApathyCream | yeah, i don't think he got that |
| 04:45.49 | learner | it'd probably work if I just link manually now |
| 04:45.50 | DangerWillRobins | like I want to use scale matrixes instead of lots of lists |
| 04:45.56 | DangerWillRobins | that works better on hardware |
| 04:45.57 | MrApathyCream | yah |
| 04:46.00 | DangerWillRobins | still works fine on software |
| 04:46.01 | MrApathyCream | coo |
| 04:46.15 | DangerWillRobins | just uses a tad more CPU and less ram then the current way |
| 04:46.17 | learner | you'd love to see the opengl profiler tool they have here DangerWillRobinson |
| 04:46.18 | MrApathyCream | when 1.11 just change it |
| 04:46.20 | DangerWillRobins | and CPUs should be fast enough |
| 04:46.34 | CIA-1 | 03atupone * 12bzflag/ (BUGS): tank pieces cleaned after explosion |
| 04:46.38 | DangerWillRobins | sucker has to transform them anyway |
| 04:46.41 | MrApathyCream | thanks tupone |
| 04:46.44 | DangerWillRobins | why not just dick with the matrix |
| 04:46.46 | Tupone | np |
| 04:47.08 | MrApathyCream | yup |
| 04:47.44 | DangerWillRobins | I'm betting he still wants to get the thing onto a cell phone |
| 04:48.02 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 04:49.24 | learner | nice answer to the noob mac |
| 04:49.30 | MrApathyCream | tanks |
| 04:49.33 | DangerWillRobins | best of luck with the poo |
| 04:49.48 | MrApathyCream | no need to poo, just feed |
| 04:49.53 | DangerWillRobins | ahh good |
| 04:51.17 | DangerWillRobins | ahh you gotta know that 2 characters in a game are gonna die when they are named "hosed" and "Screwed" |
| 04:51.47 | *** part/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-120-217.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 04:52.02 | learner | heh |
| 04:52.20 | DangerWillRobins | Metal Arms is a very funny game |
| 04:52.25 | DangerWillRobins | with lots of shooting :) |
| 04:52.36 | DangerWillRobins | the rocket launcher is my friend :) |
| 04:52.43 | DangerWillRobins | his name is Albert |
| 04:53.03 | DangerWillRobins | is it dead jim? |
| 04:53.05 | bryjen | hmm? |
| 04:53.13 | learner | lose navi? |
| 04:53.30 | captain_pistachi | not yet, but we have no ideas as to the latest problems |
| 04:53.47 | DangerWillRobins | :( |
| 04:53.53 | learner | I'm a doctor, Jim, not a computer scientist! |
| 04:55.04 | captain_pistachi | and filesystem integrity seems to be headed for the toilet |
| 04:55.16 | DangerWillRobins | ack |
| 04:55.33 | DangerWillRobins | doing anythign funky with the FS? or just normal stuff? |
| 04:55.48 | learner | time to pull out the hex editor and twiddle the raw bits |
| 04:55.53 | captain_pistachi | we've been mounting it read-only for the last couple days =/ |
| 04:56.14 | learner | have you tried salvaging data to another datastore? |
| 04:59.31 | captain_pistachi | learner: we copied off what we could |
| 04:59.52 | *** join/#bzflag orange (~mdw@volt.expo.net) |
| 04:59.55 | learner | you're welcome to at least 100gb here, if you need it for a while |
| 05:00.09 | captain_pistachi | that would take a while :) |
| 05:00.16 | learner | :) |
| 05:00.19 | orange | hey guys |
| 05:01.10 | captain_pistachi | we -would- be fine if we weren't getting these kernel panics during the raid sync |
| 05:02.34 | captain_pistachi | i think the controller may be flaking out, but there's really no way to test :( |
| 05:05.42 | learner | cap: only 69 hours to upload 100gb :) |
| 05:05.53 | learner | 2.875 days |
| 05:05.56 | learner | :) |
| 05:06.10 | captain_pistachi | heh |
| 05:06.26 | captain_pistachi | that would also require the filesystem un-crankyness to access it all cleanly for that amount of time |
| 05:06.55 | scanline | heh |
| 05:07.09 | DangerWillRobins | that bot? did it infect that project too? |
| 05:07.26 | captain_pistachi | DangerWillRobins: thats what they mean when they say the GPL is viral ;) |
| 05:07.42 | DangerWillRobins | I think they have a cream for that |
| 05:07.53 | creeperz | i think david trowbridge is... you scanline! |
| 05:08.00 | scanline | right |
| 05:08.02 | scanline | you guessed it |
| 05:08.04 | bryjen | penicillin penicillin penicillin |
| 05:08.10 | scanline | hit the pickle right on the toe |
| 05:08.19 | creeperz | :-) |
| 05:08.29 | DangerWillRobins | wel all have a little david trobridge in our hearts |
| 05:08.42 | captain_pistachi | yay alien nine! |
| 05:08.47 | creeperz | apparently a pickle has it in its toe |
| 05:08.59 | DangerWillRobins | and it will eventuyaly clog it an kill us |
| 05:09.03 | DangerWillRobins | is that an good cap? |
| 05:09.21 | captain_pistachi | =} |
| 05:09.32 | captain_pistachi | scanline: louder? |
| 05:09.34 | DangerWillRobins | haven't watched it |
| 05:09.49 | scanline | captain_pistachi: if you want, but it's fine as it is |
| 05:09.49 | DangerWillRobins | and the first one of Magical Shoping Arcade Anebobashi |
| 05:09.50 | captain_pistachi | mmk |
| 05:09.52 | bryjen | scanline: the "eject" button ? |
| 05:10.04 | scanline | bryjen: the dialog is open, but it's on what is usually my second monitor |
| 05:10.07 | DangerWillRobins | they let the eva people make another anime |
| 05:10.10 | scanline | which isn't connected now |
| 05:10.17 | captain_pistachi | DangerWillRobins: =D |
| 05:10.23 | creeperz | i wish i had a pickle for a toe :-( |
| 05:10.29 | DangerWillRobins | but it's FLCL class anime |
| 05:10.32 | captain_pistachi | yay |
| 05:10.58 | DangerWillRobins | I have only watched 2 eps |
| 05:11.03 | scanline | nooooooooo |
| 05:11.12 | bryjen | ?!? |
| 05:11.19 | captain_pistachi | scanline: ? |
| 05:11.40 | scanline | DangerWillRobins hasn't seen all of FLCL |
| 05:11.46 | DangerWillRobins | yes I have |
| 05:11.51 | scanline | ohh |
| 05:11.54 | scanline | never mind then |
| 05:11.54 | captain_pistachi | of course he has |
| 05:12.00 | DangerWillRobins | I have only seen 2 eps of magical shoping arcade abenobashi |
| 05:12.07 | DangerWillRobins | I own all the FLCLs |
| 05:12.12 | DangerWillRobins | Kanti rocks |
| 05:12.19 | DangerWillRobins | "gibson EB-Zero!!!!" |
| 05:12.20 | captain_pistachi | cantido-sama! |
| 05:12.42 | scanline | wow, I think linus ditched his etherexpress for a realtek, because the defaults are different |
| 05:12.47 | DangerWillRobins | the ganster hand was one hell of a character design |
| 05:13.38 | bryjen | realtek = cheesy ether for building onto mobos |
| 05:13.40 | DangerWillRobins | cap |
| 05:13.40 | DangerWillRobins | http://www.abenobashidvd.com/ |
| 05:13.57 | scanline | bryjen: also cheesy ether for buying in bulk for $2/card |
| 05:14.20 | scanline | which is why pretty much everyone I know has one |
| 05:14.22 | captain_pistachi | hehe, sounds cool |
| 05:14.33 | DangerWillRobins | the 2 I saw were reallly funny |
| 05:14.46 | DangerWillRobins | they keep going from one random parallel universe to another |
| 05:14.58 | DangerWillRobins | each based on a difrent anime or game |
| 05:15.03 | bryjen | but i figured theyre a dime a hundred 'cuz theys everwher |
| 05:15.39 | DangerWillRobins | they generaly seem to work |
| 05:16.29 | bryjen | ours IBMs at work invariably had intel ether chips, but theyve switched to something else for gigabit |
| 05:16.35 | captain_pistachi | i really think that those guys work better when they're doing something bizzare, rather than something normal |
| 05:16.58 | DangerWillRobins | yeah, his and her circumstances seemd odd |
| 05:17.01 | captain_pistachi | welp, alien nine is burnt |
| 05:17.13 | DangerWillRobins | this one has the magic boobie sword too |
| 05:17.36 | bryjen | uh, ok... |
| 05:17.53 | DangerWillRobins | if you saw it, it would make sense :) |
| 05:19.15 | MrApathyCream | so do you guys think we should pack ww's in the database for the sole purpose of saveworld? |
| 05:19.28 | CIA-1 | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/man (bzfs.6s): inform about -d now prints what port was requested |
| 05:19.29 | learner | ww's? |
| 05:19.35 | learner | ah, yes |
| 05:19.36 | MrApathyCream | worldweapons |
| 05:20.12 | MrApathyCream | hmm that would be a 'protocol' change :( |
| 05:20.13 | learner | which database? |
| 05:20.25 | MrApathyCream | the world database |
| 05:20.31 | MrApathyCream | see packDatabase |
| 05:20.50 | MrApathyCream | WorldInfo.cxx 266 |
| 05:21.49 | learner | why does it break protocol? |
| 05:21.56 | learner | because of the length? |
| 05:22.51 | scanline | MrApathyCream: is that protocol wiki page up to date yet? :) |
| 05:23.01 | MrApathyCream | cause the client depacks it and won't know what to do with the new type |
| 05:23.08 | MrApathyCream | and will prolly crash :) |
| 05:23.21 | MrApathyCream | scanline: no idea, do i look like the maintainer? |
| 05:23.38 | MrApathyCream | ;) |
| 05:24.16 | DangerWillRobins | what DO maintainers look like? |
| 05:24.47 | learner | the latest is "supposed" to be doc/guide/NetworkProtocol.xml -- but there is a bug that states it is not up to date (though it was pulled from wiki -- so they are both out of date) |
| 05:25.17 | MrApathyCream | and it looks so purdy thru doc.xsl :) |
| 05:25.26 | learner | oh, working now? |
| 05:25.40 | MrApathyCream | yup |
| 05:25.42 | learner | shweeet! |
| 05:26.12 | MrApathyCream | works: yes pretty: no |
| 05:27.02 | learner | it'd be interesting to see what the client really does do if fed the ww data -- should hack it to ignore stuff it doesn't know |
| 05:27.12 | learner | so we can add later without breaking proto |
| 05:27.45 | scanline | nah |
| 05:27.45 | DangerWillRobins | isnt' bzdb just a bunch of named fields with data? |
| 05:27.49 | scanline | need to finish CIA first |
| 05:27.51 | DangerWillRobins | if so why not make the send just be that |
| 05:27.58 | learner | musta just been gas, then |
| 05:28.00 | DangerWillRobins | then it would never greak |
| 05:28.24 | DangerWillRobins | it would just add them, and then the calling app could or couldn't use the data |
| 05:32.21 | scanline | xsltproc sure takes its sweet time on the bzflag docs :) |
| 05:32.43 | scanline | yikes, javascript |
| 05:33.23 | scanline | that's kinda creepy |
| 05:33.37 | scanline | why not just make those separate pages rather than being silly with javascript? |
| 05:34.31 | CIA-1 | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/ (TODO): make a note about stellarium skies |
| 05:37.49 | MrApathyCream | *shrug* |
| 05:38.30 | MrApathyCream | plus not sure how you would make multi files from one xslt |
| 05:42.20 | MrApathyCream | DangerWillRobins: bzdb: more or less |
| 05:43.48 | DangerWillRobins | is it sent as one big ass binary chunk? |
| 05:44.05 | MrApathyCream | the database? |
| 05:44.07 | MrApathyCream | no |
| 05:44.13 | MrApathyCream | in MaxPacketSize chunks |
| 05:44.19 | DangerWillRobins | ahh |
| 05:44.31 | DangerWillRobins | and the client expects the data in a certan way? |
| 05:44.40 | DangerWillRobins | or is it jsut Name then data? |
| 05:44.47 | MrApathyCream | wait |
| 05:44.51 | MrApathyCream | you talking about bzdb? |
| 05:44.54 | DangerWillRobins | yes |
| 05:44.56 | MrApathyCream | oh |
| 05:45.06 | MrApathyCream | well MaxPacketSize blocks |
| 05:45.13 | MrApathyCream | but they are name 0 value 0 |
| 05:45.27 | DangerWillRobins | so you can send what ever you want in there then right? |
| 05:45.43 | DangerWillRobins | and they just get added to the database |
| 05:45.46 | MrApathyCream | look at bzfs/PackVars.h |
| 05:45.52 | MrApathyCream | yes |
| 05:45.58 | DangerWillRobins | then it won't break protocoll |
| 05:46.09 | DangerWillRobins | an older version would get the fields, and just never use them |
| 05:46.41 | DangerWillRobins | when they export they would just not get the WWs |
| 05:46.44 | DangerWillRobins | whopty do |
| 05:46.49 | TimRiker | should be able to add a new world packet type and have the clients that don't know about it ignore it. Not sure if the code is written that way at present. |
| 05:46.56 | MrApathyCream | and bzfs 2340 |
| 05:47.22 | MrApathyCream | DangerWillRobins: the ww's wouldn't be sent in bzdb vars, but in the world database |
| 05:47.29 | DangerWillRobins | ohhhh |
| 05:47.30 | MrApathyCream | in packDatabase |
| 05:47.36 | learner | MAC.. you may have found the bug |
| 05:47.38 | DangerWillRobins | well then yeah your screwed |
| 05:47.46 | MrApathyCream | TimRiker: right, i don't know either |
| 05:47.48 | DangerWillRobins | make the world database like bzdb :) |
| 05:47.59 | MrApathyCream | it would be easy to do, but it may be next time |
| 05:48.05 | MrApathyCream | or it might work now |
| 05:48.05 | DangerWillRobins | so it dosn't need all that offset and size stuff |
| 05:48.06 | learner | OpenGLTexFont was as close as I could get to the lighting crash bug |
| 05:48.07 | MrApathyCream | dunno |
| 05:48.08 | DangerWillRobins | it's horible now |
| 05:48.51 | learner | that's why I rewrote parts -- just didn't touch the ogl code itself, I was hunting a memory problem at the time |
| 05:49.07 | DangerWillRobins | Tim on the hardware/software rending thing, I was't talking about desuporting software, just making it optimised for hardware |
| 05:49.11 | DangerWillRobins | software would still work |
| 05:49.44 | DangerWillRobins | and work resonably well on computers these days |
| 05:49.44 | MrApathyCream | ah here we got |
| 05:49.50 | MrApathyCream | the current client would fail |
| 05:49.54 | MrApathyCream | default: return NULL |
| 05:49.57 | DangerWillRobins | may slow down a bit on the old 486s |
| 05:50.02 | DangerWillRobins | and pentiums |
| 05:50.26 | DangerWillRobins | but I don't think those systems are an apriciable percentage of the user base |
| 05:50.42 | MrApathyCream | so it woudl break protocol now |
| 05:51.00 | TimRiker | hmm. World.cxx like 931. looks like a nope. |
| 05:51.10 | TimRiker | er line 931 |
| 05:51.18 | MrApathyCream | heh, yup, see above |
| 05:51.19 | MrApathyCream | :) |
| 05:52.06 | TimRiker | ;-) |
| 05:52.52 | TimRiker | should print a "warning: unknown world object type 0x%4.4x" or similar and continue. |
| 05:53.00 | DangerWillRobins | captain_pistachi: I still ahve all the guu episodes so if you want to skip backing them up you can. |
| 05:53.16 | MrApathyCream | yup: on the 1.12 to do list |
| 05:53.22 | TimRiker | cool. |
| 05:53.42 | MrApathyCream | but can't change the server till we decide the proto will change |
| 05:54.17 | MrApathyCream | DangerWillRobins: any luck with OpenGLTextFont stuff? |
| 05:54.23 | DangerWillRobins | nope |
| 05:54.26 | learner | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:54.26 | learner | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:54.29 | DangerWillRobins | all I did was break it |
| 05:54.31 | learner | that's bad |
| 05:54.32 | MrApathyCream | hehe |
| 05:54.37 | MrApathyCream | yes indeedy |
| 05:54.44 | DangerWillRobins | you sure, it's in a funcky else |
| 05:54.45 | MrApathyCream | it's completely kanasty |
| 05:54.52 | DangerWillRobins | or is that the one at the begining? |
| 05:54.52 | captain_pistachi | DangerWillRobins: i think scanline copied them |
| 05:55.03 | captain_pistachi | DangerWillRobins: and i could re-torrent them if necessary |
| 05:55.06 | learner | the glBegin that started it, is not the same logic - they could get out of sync |
| 05:55.30 | DangerWillRobins | ahhhh got it |
| 05:55.31 | MrApathyCream | the whole proc should be rethought and the subparts factored out to funcs |
| 05:55.32 | scanline | copy which? |
| 05:55.34 | DangerWillRobins | yeah that is fugly |
| 05:55.36 | captain_pistachi | scanline: jungle |
| 05:55.42 | scanline | ah, they're all on wasabi |
| 05:55.51 | learner | so every now and then, when there is nothing to underline, it misses a glEnd |
| 05:56.10 | DangerWillRobins | hmmm that could throw it slowly off sync |
| 05:57.36 | MrApathyCream | w00t! |
| 05:59.06 | learner | there is also a glEnd() at the very end (near 772) that is supposed to close shop -- that probably saves face most of the time |
| 05:59.56 | MrApathyCream | yah |
| 06:01.06 | learner | wtf does rep->gstate.setState(); do? |
| 06:01.42 | DangerWillRobins | it shoudl save off the , ligtging/coloring/textureing/stencel/zbuffer/et all state |
| 06:01.50 | DangerWillRobins | ohh sorry |
| 06:01.52 | DangerWillRobins | it will get it |
| 06:02.12 | MrApathyCream | rep is a rfsp |
| 06:02.17 | DangerWillRobins | basicly set all the states that need to be set to put the GL state in it's neded condition |
| 06:02.17 | MrApathyCream | er rcsp |
| 06:03.32 | learner | real f'n stupid protocol or really cool service patch? how's it supposed to know what the needed condition is? |
| 06:03.52 | DangerWillRobins | it tracks it all |
| 06:03.59 | DangerWillRobins | it knows what the last call to it'self was |
| 06:04.07 | DangerWillRobins | so it knows what needs to change |
| 06:04.14 | learner | hrm.. k |
| 06:04.14 | DangerWillRobins | hence it's nastyness |
| 06:04.20 | DangerWillRobins | it does a state tracker |
| 06:04.36 | DangerWillRobins | in an effort to minimise state chages |
| 06:04.45 | DangerWillRobins | cus they can be slow on software renderes |
| 06:04.46 | learner | they're bleeding |
| 06:04.57 | DangerWillRobins | this all goes to my question of targeting hardware |
| 06:05.12 | DangerWillRobins | we can just set the state and leave it, then stuff that needs a special state can set it and restore it. |
| 06:05.15 | DangerWillRobins | a lot simpler |
| 06:05.20 | DangerWillRobins | and works well on hardare |
| 06:11.53 | CIA-1 | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/ (BUGS): document the info.plist permissions problem before I forget |
| 06:14.56 | learner | hehe, hard to play traverse menus with no text :) |
| 06:24.28 | MrApathyCream | arg phanton.byu.edu is exhibiting the bad rabbit selection bug |
| 06:25.00 | learner | server version? |
| 06:25.21 | MrApathyCream | 1.10.2 release |
| 06:25.48 | MrApathyCream | we really should put debugging code in for why players are being bypassed |
| 06:29.58 | MrApathyCream | ah, well in this case it's all negative scores |
| 06:30.01 | MrApathyCream | that is different |
| 06:30.07 | MrApathyCream | that is understood problem |
| 06:31.38 | TimRiker | oh... the email gui was fine. I didn't mean to have that removed. |
| 06:31.49 | learner | :) |
| 06:31.53 | MrApathyCream | hehe, TimRiker catches up on reading |
| 06:33.29 | learner | empty values aren't persisting in the config file, because when the file is read in, the "set" command handler func has no case for when value is empty... |
| 06:33.46 | MrApathyCream | make sense |
| 06:33.46 | learner | easy enough to fix |
| 06:33.53 | MrApathyCream | yup |
| 06:34.04 | learner | case 1: // do the right thing |
| 06:35.03 | MrApathyCream | learner there is probalbly a cmdSet on both client and server |
| 06:35.28 | learner | hrm.. okay |
| 06:36.06 | learner | nasty if true |
| 06:36.20 | MrApathyCream | i wouldn't be surprised it /set foo |
| 06:36.25 | MrApathyCream | currently echos the value of foo |
| 06:36.42 | learner | client doesn't.. but server might |
| 06:37.32 | learner | indeed there is duplication |
| 06:37.47 | learner | with different logic :) |
| 06:38.29 | MrApathyCream | ah yes, server handles server only vars i guess |
| 06:38.53 | learner | hrm.. good question -- what should it do.. |
| 06:39.26 | MrApathyCream | prolly can ignore the server version |
| 06:39.27 | learner | is "set email " an error in the config file or should it set to empty? |
| 06:39.41 | MrApathyCream | empty i guess |
| 06:40.16 | learner | you could always denote empty with 'set email ""' |
| 06:40.22 | learner | and make them consistent |
| 06:40.43 | learner | but that makes little sense for the config file |
| 06:41.12 | TimRiker | email should not be empty. |
| 06:41.18 | learner | i mean having "set var" return the value if set doesn't make sense in the config file (or does it)? |
| 06:41.55 | MrApathyCream | well /set _worldSize prolly return 800 |
| 06:41.58 | MrApathyCream | which is useful |
| 06:42.02 | TimRiker | no. it should probably not save them and ignore them if present. |
| 06:42.16 | TimRiker | /set should print them, yes. |
| 06:42.29 | learner | right.. but that's server-side set command when using /set |
| 06:42.33 | TimRiker | but not from the config file. |
| 06:42.37 | learner | should they be the same in the config file or different? |
| 06:42.58 | TimRiker | are there any vars that need to be saved with no value? |
| 06:43.15 | learner | I wouldn't change what the server cmdSet does now, it works good |
| 06:43.52 | MrApathyCream | TimRiker: what's the diff between email: " " and moo@boo.hoo ? |
| 06:45.10 | TimRiker | you look silly with "moo@boo.hoo" |
| 06:45.15 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 06:45.52 | MrApathyCream | or if email = tanker |
| 06:46.00 | MrApathyCream | or some teamname |
| 06:46.24 | TimRiker | er addys |
| 06:46.44 | MrApathyCream | dave@sean.morrison.name |
| 06:47.09 | TimRiker | Tim@BZFlag.org oh.. that one does work. ;-) |
| 06:47.44 | learner | heh, it better work .. i provided it as a contact somewhere ;) |
| 06:48.40 | MrApathyCream | www.stankyskin.com? |
| 06:48.54 | learner | or maybe I was going to use it and decided against -- it was for a bzflag listing |
| 06:50.23 | learner | Tim: we could make it impossible to set to empty via gui menu since feedback can be given immediate -- but there is an unexpected behavior if values are set to empty manually and they don't persist in the file |
| 06:53.19 | MrApathyCream | they're dropping like flys |
| 06:54.14 | TimRiker | learner if empty in the gui it should do the same thing as empty in the config. that is populate it will the silly guess. |
| 06:54.32 | TimRiker | er with... |
| 06:56.46 | learner | no offense, but I don't think anyone else likes/agrees with not being able to set it to empty; i can go along with it because it's mostly harmless, but others have already complained (to me and publicly and pre 1.10 even) |
| 06:57.21 | learner | it seems to be a rather unfavorable pet peave to enforce |
| 06:58.18 | learner | karma is a much better solution to discourage bad behavior than this |
| 06:59.50 | MrApathyCream | poor colorado |
| 07:07.59 | learner | i've seen 3 responses: 1) people have no clue what that thing is and they ask "what is that string after my callsign?" 2) people join a team or see others and ask "how can I do that?" or 3) people want it removed for a variety of reasons and try to set it to nothing then posting to boards, asking in here, etc mostly known honest/good players that have asked too. |
| 07:08.06 | learner | if they are asking, they are usually not raw newbies -- so the effect of the default has already been exhausted.. why just confuse/upset them when they finally know enough to change it? |
| 07:17.34 | CIA | src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: avoid confusing users by implying you need or can use an equal sign. |
| 07:18.45 | shkoo | 56\ |
| 07:28.13 | TimRiker | huh? |
| 07:28.56 | TimRiker | learner: remember that there was no gui way to set it previously. I've met very few folks that used an editor to set it. |
| 07:29.24 | TimRiker | I expect that having it in the gui will encourage folks to use it. perhaps not for email, but for something useful. |
| 07:30.08 | learner | i agree, i'm not saying do away with it |
| 07:31.00 | TimRiker | I expect many people to set it to "none" or n/a etc. |
| 07:31.13 | TimRiker | which is fine. |
| 07:31.23 | *** join/#bzflag captain_pistachi (~blardebla@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 07:31.23 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o captain_pistachi] by ChanServ |
| 07:31.25 | learner | there's two issues, first we call it e-mail -- once the user reg is in progress, we need a better method for clan/team designation |
| 07:31.53 | TimRiker | learner: agreed. will break protocol though. add it to the todo. |
| 07:32.00 | *** join/#bzflag ` (~micah@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 07:32.17 | TimRiker | and cal you be on multiple clans/teams ? issues like that... |
| 07:32.26 | TimRiker | `: get a real nick perhaps? |
| 07:32.26 | learner | i think it's posted on one of the todo's somewhere |
| 07:32.37 | TimRiker | could be. |
| 07:32.39 | learner | yes.. plan to allow players to set up profiles |
| 07:32.55 | learner | so you could have multiple nicks/teams/prefs, etc |
| 07:33.17 | learner | that's not until 1.11, of course, though |
| 07:33.42 | scanline | TimRiker: typo in a config file :P |
| 07:35.03 | TimRiker | scanline: heh. |
| 07:35.06 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-1 (~CIA-1@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 07:38.15 | |tim| | Aren't all nicks usually odd ;-) |
| 07:38.18 | learner | with that in place, the second issues is still their ability to set it empty -- if none, n/a, " ", etc are acceptible then there's not really any point left for not permitting empty. I still agree that the default half-email is somewhat useful for discouraging abuse, but that only implies what the default should be -- not the inability to set it to empty. |
| 07:45.53 | CIA-1 | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/ (TODO): point to the sf task tracker |
| 07:48.41 | *** join/#bzflag goofy_wo (~s2d@213.146.171.11) |
| 07:56.59 | TimRiker | learner: are there any other variables that are allowed to be saved as empty? |
| 07:57.09 | TimRiker | I'm concerned with bugs it would cause. |
| 07:58.00 | *** join/#bzflag |tim| (~|tim|@ip68-106-184-191.sb.sd.cox.net) |
| 07:58.02 | *** part/#bzflag |tim| (~|tim|@ip68-106-184-191.sb.sd.cox.net) |
| 07:58.05 | TimRiker | a "most of the time you can have it empty, but sometimes it'll mess up and revert" is worse that "set it to 'none' if you don't like what it get's set to automatcially" |
| 07:58.09 | *** join/#bzflag |tim| (~|tim|@ip68-106-184-191.sb.sd.cox.net) |
| 07:58.10 | learner | any variable can be saved to empty -- the config file reader couldn't handle it properly, but it will set empty fine |
| 07:58.56 | learner | in the config file, you can delete any entry to get the default -- menu would/could always be wysiwyg |
| 07:59.28 | TimRiker | so you leave it blank and arrow off, it get's set to the autogenerated mess. |
| 07:59.34 | learner | so setting to empty would persist, unless you delete the line from config |
| 08:00.03 | TimRiker | I still concerned with bugs dealing with empty variables. |
| 08:01.02 | learner | we could do that in the menu to promote setting it, or let them set empty and keep it -- but if set "" in config, persist it |
| 08:01.16 | learner | if there are bugs, we should fix them :) |
| 08:01.52 | learner | but i've yet to see one from being empty, the bzdb knows the difference between set and empty, and unset |
| 08:02.38 | learner | the command manager and config file reader are the weak links -- writing out the config file every time like we do is bad |
| 08:03.23 | learner | talked with chestal/mac/tupone/etc and it's slated to get fixed/improved later (the config file management, that is) |
| 08:03.33 | learner | g'night mac.. thanks for the lead! |
| 08:03.41 | learner | I think that is the bug.. |
| 08:04.00 | learner | i was playing with lighting on for a while, with no text rendering and all was well with the world |
| 08:04.02 | TimRiker | That's fine with me if it works. |
| 08:06.53 | learner | TimRiker: if you missed it earlier, i think most of the opengl pipeline rendering issues (that bork state and crash machines) has finally been tracked down (and it was related to the missing glEnd).. OpenGLTexFont::draw ... |
| 08:07.14 | learner | s/has finally been/were finally/ |
| 08:44.43 | *** join/#bzflag sussudio (Suss@81.68.131.0) |
| 09:28.49 | TimRiker | learner: sweet! |
| 09:32.14 | CIA-1 | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/src/common (StateDatabase.cxx): fixed bug where setting zbuffer var in config file would crash client -- cannot perform callback until opengl context is created and active |
| 09:42.04 | *** join/#bzflag Sniper50 (~Sniper50@c-568c70d5.09-28-6c756e1.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 09:45.48 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (frank@p50821277.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:05.46 | *** join/#bzflag cniV (~kchan@c211-30-113-108.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 10:10.22 | *** join/#bzflag TimKohler (~|tim|@ip68-106-184-191.sb.sd.cox.net) |
| 10:11.04 | learner | if you kick it hard enough, it becomes linux |
| 10:11.33 | |tim| | 0.0 |
| 10:22.59 | sussudio | windows is much more stable if you stop clicking on those 'real free porn' links in email, |tim| |
| 10:28.51 | |tim| | lol |
| 10:28.59 | sussudio | no, really. |
| 10:29.09 | |tim| | Even though I rarely check my e-mail |
| 10:29.56 | sussudio | http://majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=506 |
| 10:30.05 | sussudio | download adaware, see just how much spyware crap you have. |
| 10:30.13 | |tim| | I've got ad-aware |
| 10:30.23 | |tim| | But thanks anyway's |
| 10:30.37 | |tim| | And all my e-mails foward to junk folder anywho and hell if i checked that folder |
| 10:30.49 | |tim| | I should say most of my e-mails |
| 10:31.23 | sussudio | if you're using outlook you're screwed anyway |
| 10:31.31 | |tim| | but i'm not |
| 10:31.33 | |tim| | :) |
| 10:32.01 | |tim| | I'd say I'm still screwed with hotmail though, eh? |
| 10:32.22 | sussudio | yup. it'll use IE and parse it through the same thing as outlook |
| 10:33.58 | |tim| | why thanks for the info |
| 14:14.40 | *** join/#bzflag orchid (~bzgirl@toronto-hs-64-26-176-100.s-ip.magma.ca) |
| 14:37.17 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-120-217.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 14:57.37 | Chestal | ~bzflist |
| 14:57.51 | *** join/#bzflag [Draco] (~[Draco]@arachnotron.net) |
| 14:57.53 | [Draco] | Hey |
| 14:58.31 | *** part/#bzflag [Draco] (~[Draco]@arachnotron.net) |
| 15:17.12 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone_ (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-120-217.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 15:20.31 | *** join/#bzflag Jaguar503n (~Jaguar503@pcp05279755pcs.maplln01.de.comcast.net) |
| 15:20.40 | Jaguar503n | hello |
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| 16:14.28 | *** join/#bzflag Michaelh (Mouse@172-250.dynamic.visi.com) |
| 16:14.34 | Michaelh | ok now I am confused |
| 16:15.03 | Michaelh | so do people want an email entry field even if it can never be blank? |
| 16:15.50 | Michaelh | I guess yes ... |
| 16:18.40 | Michaelh | So everyone is hung over? :) |
| 16:19.07 | orchid | tim dosent want blank emails, no? |
| 16:20.37 | Michaelh | I guess so, but he also emailed and said the gui change was ok |
| 16:27.41 | CIA-1 | 03michaelh20 * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (2 files): Email menu without anonymous tag in db |
| 16:30.19 | Chestal | what is the behaviour now when I blank it? |
| 16:31.52 | Michaelh | it just autogenerates |
| 16:32.25 | Michaelh | He specifically objected to the set anonymous 1/0 thing |
| 16:32.28 | Chestal | on next startup? |
| 16:32.33 | Michaelh | yes |
| 16:32.41 | Chestal | hmm, I guess this leaves room for more discussion |
| 16:32.48 | Michaelh | that's what I thought |
| 16:33.06 | Michaelh | All you have to do is fix the db thing really.. |
| 16:33.33 | Michaelh | unless the behavior of allowing a blank email is specifically evil |
| 16:34.04 | Chestal | the db needs more fixing than just that, though |
| 16:34.53 | Michaelh | ah so |
| 16:35.22 | Chestal | as is hinted at in TODO, it's quite a mess currently |
| 16:35.59 | Michaelh | what else is wrong with it? |
| 16:36.39 | Chestal | there's the caching / dependency problem, some confusion of what variables are in there and why etc. |
| 16:37.48 | Michaelh | what is meant by dependancy problems? |
| 16:38.08 | Chestal | the caching does not get invalidated when b changes and a depends on b |
| 16:38.14 | Chestal | like a = b / 2 |
| 16:38.23 | Michaelh | doh |
| 16:38.41 | Chestal | and it's not sure when a callback shoudl be activated |
| 16:38.43 | Michaelh | where does that show up / how ? |
| 16:38.52 | Chestal | when the string changes? when the value changes when evaluated as a float? etc. |
| 16:39.08 | Michaelh | I mean how does it effect the game |
| 16:39.18 | Chestal | not sure, look at src/common/global.cxx for variables which are defined in tems of others |
| 16:39.35 | Chestal | when you then for example use /set command to change that variable, the other will keep its old value |
| 16:40.00 | Chestal | the foudnation of the problem is that bzdb has been integrated in an ad-hoc manner withotu anybody really understanding it |
| 16:40.13 | Michaelh | So dependencies can be specified, but not working or it never was done? |
| 16:40.24 | Michaelh | That I find shocking :) |
| 16:40.46 | Chestal | it works |
| 16:41.00 | Chestal | but there are circumstances when it doesn't |
| 16:41.16 | Michaelh | So is it set up to take dependencies into account? |
| 16:41.25 | Chestal | there are different types of variables in BZDB, it's quite a confusion |
| 16:41.33 | Chestal | the caching doesn't |
| 16:41.36 | Chestal | neither do the callbacks |
| 16:41.43 | Chestal | the rest does |
| 16:42.36 | Tupone | Chestal: for some variable that are used a lot I did my own caching. Getting all of that at any start of loop |
| 16:42.56 | Chestal | there are 2/3 levels of caching |
| 16:43.12 | Chestal | I have some tempalte caching / global classes which coudl do all that automatically |
| 16:43.22 | Chestal | but I stopped workign on it because of the current confusion all over bzdb |
| 16:43.50 | Chestal | it needs some work to look what different types of things it is used for and what the needs actually are |
| 16:44.11 | *** join/#bzflag tapo (~hannes@p50928680.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:46.14 | Michaelh | so chestal you mean you have a class that other classes can inherit from? |
| 16:46.54 | *** join/#bzflag Michaelh (Mouse@172-250.dynamic.visi.com) |
| 16:47.30 | Chestal | well, it's a class (or a mini-hierarchy) which does abut the same as the manual bzdb-cache does now, and also which the globaldbitems do |
| 16:48.11 | Chestal | you coudl then read the globals directly as a value (float, int or string), and it would automaitcally update the state via a callback using bzdb |
| 16:48.40 | Chestal | so all of the globaldbitems woudl automatically be in BZDB and cached at the same time |
| 16:49.28 | Chestal | maybe that can be useful once we have figured out how to use bzdb properly |
| 16:50.57 | Michaelh | probably less bug prone if it's done once via a class instead of over and over again by hand |
| 16:51.36 | Chestal | hmm, lerner's last commit is strange |
| 16:51.50 | Chestal | looks like an accident |
| 16:52.07 | Michaelh | committed debugging info |
| 16:52.12 | Michaelh | stuff |
| 16:52.14 | Chestal | yes |
| 16:52.27 | Michaelh | trying to figure the same thing I was trying to figure out |
| 16:52.34 | Chestal | but it says it would fix something |
| 16:52.38 | Michaelh | heh |
| 16:52.44 | Chestal | so he forgot to remove that debug output? |
| 16:52.59 | Michaelh | seems to be all there is there ... |
| 16:53.25 | Chestal | actually, I see no relation to his commit message at all |
| 16:53.37 | Chestal | guess he commited the wrong file |
| 16:54.06 | Chestal | ah, he commented out one line, hmm |
| 16:56.03 | Chestal | guess this is an accident, too |
| 16:57.04 | Chestal | defautl for email is "", that is why it is not writte to config file? |
| 16:58.32 | Michaelh | ? |
| 16:58.56 | Michaelh | unless you want to specify something like "anonymous" means blank, it just doesn't store it |
| 16:58.57 | Chestal | BZDB does not write out any values which are set to the default |
| 16:59.26 | Michaelh | the default is variable |
| 16:59.30 | Michaelh | in emails case |
| 16:59.47 | Michaelh | for me it's Michael Hoffman@Hal9000 |
| 17:00.08 | Michaelh | How do you set the default value? |
| 17:00.28 | Michaelh | but he commented out that line.... |
| 17:00.29 | Michaelh | :) |
| 17:00.35 | Michaelh | and it still happens the same |
| 17:00.43 | Chestal | the default is probably never set and thus defaults (sic!) to "" |
| 17:00.56 | Chestal | there is StateDatabase::setdefault |
| 17:01.16 | Chestal | that's not true |
| 17:01.20 | Chestal | it saves the empty email now |
| 17:01.24 | Chestal | "set email" |
| 17:01.40 | Chestal | maybe it should be 'set email ""' though, not sure what the parser makes of it |
| 17:01.50 | Chestal | so it worked as designed |
| 17:02.17 | Chestal | it wasn't BZDB's fault, just wrong usage (or expectations) |
| 17:03.46 | Michaelh | but he commented out the line that makes that requirement |
| 17:03.55 | Michaelh | index->second.value != index->second.defValue) |
| 17:04.23 | Chestal | well, the texfont is not the cause of my gl problems |
| 17:04.30 | Chestal | yes, btu only for debuggign I guess |
| 17:04.39 | Chestal | it was never meant to be comitted |
| 17:05.04 | Michaelh | I understand, but it still behaves the same way |
| 17:05.43 | Chestal | yes, by design |
| 17:05.48 | Chestal | at least by BZDB's design |
| 17:05.53 | CIA-1 | 03chestal * 12bzflag/ (BUGS): font problem is not alt-tab problem |
| 17:06.07 | Chestal | I am not sure what happens when the file is parsed when reading, though |
| 17:06.12 | Chestal | that mgiht be an additional problem |
| 17:06.32 | Chestal | or maybe it shoudl be written with quotes |
| 17:07.13 | Michaelh | I mean if the line that creates the do not save if default is commented out, and it still behaves the same way? |
| 17:08.21 | Chestal | that is either because it is not parsed/written correctly or the code which reads that value on startup does not distinguish between unset and empty, I haven't looked at it |
| 17:08.34 | Chestal | actually, it shouldn't distinguish |
| 17:08.38 | Chestal | becuase it's the default |
| 17:08.49 | Chestal | unless we make the default to be somethign else |
| 17:08.53 | Michaelh | But really some variables need to be always written out |
| 17:09.02 | Michaelh | since their default is variable |
| 17:09.02 | Chestal | nom why? |
| 17:09.09 | Chestal | they will be set to the default anyway |
| 17:09.18 | Chestal | I don#t think their default is variable |
| 17:09.30 | Michaelh | But the default is created on the fly |
| 17:09.36 | Chestal | you sure? |
| 17:09.39 | Michaelh | for email address for example |
| 17:09.45 | Chestal | no, default vor emal is "" |
| 17:09.56 | Chestal | we are talkign about different defaults obviosuly |
| 17:10.03 | Chestal | I mean default as in bzdb default |
| 17:10.20 | Michaelh | right, but in reality the actual default value for email is created on the fly |
| 17:10.24 | Chestal | email is not even a real bzdb var I think |
| 17:10.39 | Chestal | msot/all of the config file is not |
| 17:10.41 | Chestal | it's a mess |
| 17:10.52 | Chestal | to me it doesn't make sense |
| 17:11.08 | Michaelh | we're storing *everything* as strings? |
| 17:11.18 | Michaelh | :) |
| 17:11.40 | Chestal | bzdb can only store strings |
| 17:11.50 | Chestal | bu tit can interpret them in different ways |
| 17:12.48 | Michaelh | I would think we could keep as actual numbers in memory.. and do conversions when loading and saving |
| 17:13.09 | Chestal | they should be in bzdb IMHO |
| 17:13.21 | Chestal | but maybe handled by a wrapper class not uniek my proposed globals class |
| 17:13.28 | Michaelh | right |
| 17:13.29 | Chestal | this really needs to be well-understood |
| 17:13.38 | Chestal | and I doubt anyone does at the moment |
| 17:14.05 | Chestal | it just feels wrong to make any changes to that now withotu understanding what's actualyl going on |
| 17:15.20 | Michaelh | doh so :BZDB_JUMPVELOCITY is a constant string to reference into the database |
| 17:15.32 | Chestal | yes |
| 17:15.44 | Chestal | it's also messy that the globals are in StatedataBase.cxx and in globals.cxx |
| 17:15.47 | Chestal | that's wrong |
| 17:16.01 | Michaelh | Heh |
| 17:16.04 | Chestal | they do not belong into StatedataBase |
| 17:16.12 | Michaelh | How about a textutils.cxx ? |
| 17:16.18 | Michaelh | we only havea textutils.h |
| 17:16.36 | Michaelh | is there some logic there? |
| 17:17.03 | Chestal | guess it's all inline |
| 17:17.15 | Chestal | not sure if it should |
| 17:17.26 | Michaelh | ok |
| 17:17.44 | Michaelh | is there a text parsing library out there? |
| 17:17.57 | Michaelh | Pretty nasty stuff to get right |
| 17:18.20 | Chestal | probably lots of, depends on what you want |
| 17:18.26 | Chestal | I'm sure there are a couple regexp libs |
| 17:18.39 | Chestal | actualyl, we are already usign regexps, bt I think the plain C interface |
| 17:18.42 | Michaelh | cross platform though? |
| 17:19.03 | Michaelh | his regexps disappear if you are using windows :) |
| 17:20.16 | Michaelh | that's in the badwords thingee |
| 17:21.19 | Chestal | oh, they do? |
| 17:21.32 | Chestal | so when yu compiel for windows, a feature gets disabled? |
| 17:21.49 | Michaelh | yep |
| 17:21.55 | Chestal | uhm |
| 17:22.03 | Michaelh | says "this feature is not available" more or less :) |
| 17:22.17 | Michaelh | funny I suppose |
| 17:22.27 | Chestal | but that's a general problems |
| 17:22.43 | Chestal | there are a lot of libs which can be considered to be available on Unix (or easily installed) |
| 17:23.02 | Chestal | most exist for WIndows, too, but obviously we do not want Win peopel to need to install them |
| 17:23.20 | Chestal | so either we'd have to ship them with the installer or not use them |
| 17:26.56 | Michaelh | #else /* HAVE_REGEX_H */ |
| 17:26.56 | Michaelh | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:26.56 | Michaelh | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:26.56 | Michaelh | #endif /* HAVE_REGEX_H */ |
| 17:27.10 | Michaelh | #ifdef _WIN32 |
| 17:27.10 | Michaelh | # define HAVE_REGEX_H 0 |
| 17:27.12 | Michaelh | :) |
| 17:28.03 | CIA-1 | 03chestal * 12bzflag/ (BUGS): some hard data why screenshot is so slow |
| 17:28.04 | Michaelh | A regular expression library couldn't be that large in code could it? |
| 17:28.56 | Chestal | boost has regexp library (and more text processing) |
| 17:31.10 | Chestal | we coudl use lot of boost's features |
| 17:31.42 | Chestal | but same problem of course, it's available on all modern Linux systems easily, but probably not installed on Windows and other platforms (although it can of course) |
| 17:36.06 | Michaelh | The source is 10 mb... |
| 17:36.07 | Michaelh | :) |
| 17:36.20 | Michaelh | zipped that is |
| 17:49.06 | *** join/#bzflag nikt (nikt@sq159.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 17:51.16 | CIA-1 | 03chestal * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (playing.cxx): use a lower compression level for the png snapshots, better compromise of time/file size |
| 17:52.34 | CIA-1 | 03chestal * 12bzflag/ (BUGS): PNG is faster now |
| 17:55.43 | CIA-1 | 03chestal * 12bzflag/ (BUGS): why not use system's zlib if there? |
| 17:56.30 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~JeffM@adsl-64-167-79-246.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 17:56.30 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 17:59.09 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor2221 (~JeffM@adsl-64-167-79-246.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 17:59.09 | Chestal | glReadPixels is kinda slow for me |
| 18:00.51 | Patlabor2221 | it is slow for everyone |
| 18:01.10 | Chestal | takes about 0.5s for 1024x768 screenshot for me here |
| 18:01.24 | Chestal | that now makes up msot of the time for the screenshot |
| 18:01.54 | Patlabor2221 | it' just doing a read then dumping that to a file? |
| 18:02.16 | Patlabor2221 | should render to a texture then get direct access to the texture mem |
| 18:02.22 | Patlabor2221 | faster to do it that way |
| 18:02.33 | Chestal | it creates a PNG |
| 18:02.46 | Chestal | the pixel data is read via glReadPixels, though |
| 18:02.49 | Patlabor2221 | what ever it makes, glReadPixes is slow |
| 18:03.04 | Patlabor2221 | openGL does not give any direct access tot he frame buffer |
| 18:03.12 | Patlabor2221 | since the frame buffer could be on another machine |
| 18:03.30 | Patlabor2221 | sounds like it was just implemented the easy way |
| 18:03.50 | Chestal | it might also have to do some conversion |
| 18:04.09 | Patlabor2221 | probably cus you don't know the format of the screen |
| 18:04.21 | Patlabor2221 | hence why the render to a texture is faster, you specficy the texture |
| 18:04.23 | Chestal | in theory, it seems to operate on floats |
| 18:04.31 | Chestal | but that might only be conceptually |
| 18:04.36 | Patlabor2221 | sure all openGL colors are floats |
| 18:05.15 | Patlabor2221 | on the backend it could be 8 bit pallet, 16 bit, or 24 bit |
| 18:05.24 | Patlabor2221 | I've even seen 30 bit |
| 18:06.03 | Patlabor2221 | there are some extensions too that allow better access to the frame buffer |
| 18:06.17 | Patlabor2221 | and I don't know if render to a texture will work in openGL 1.0 |
| 18:06.24 | Chestal | well, no point in optimising any other part of the snapshot code now, then |
| 18:06.26 | Patlabor2221 | since BZ seems to have a need to support 1.0 |
| 18:06.36 | Chestal | it should be <1s on most systems now (I reduced the level of compression a bit) |
| 18:06.44 | Patlabor2221 | it's a snapshot, it's a one time thing |
| 18:06.48 | Patlabor2221 | unless it makes you go NR |
| 18:06.54 | Chestal | well, it did |
| 18:06.58 | Patlabor2221 | sux |
| 18:07.01 | Chestal | took about 2.5s for me |
| 18:07.09 | Chestal | now it's down to about 0.8s I guess on my machine |
| 18:07.11 | Patlabor2221 | windows people had a screenshot feature built right in |
| 18:07.14 | Patlabor2221 | :) |
| 18:07.21 | Patlabor2221 | that's probably acceptable |
| 18:07.44 | Patlabor2221 | scanline was rendering GL out to a movie, may want to see how he got access to the data |
| 18:07.45 | Chestal | when I use flaots instead of bytes, glReadPixels is fater, but not by much |
| 18:07.51 | Chestal | about 10-15% |
| 18:07.52 | Patlabor2221 | as he was albe to do it in allmost real time |
| 18:08.21 | Patlabor2221 | noone ever uses that function to read the buffer at speed |
| 18:08.43 | Patlabor2221 | it's one of the things thats gonna be changed in openGL2.0 IIRC |
| 18:09.05 | Chestal | in 640x480 it#s pretty fast now |
| 18:09.45 | Patlabor2221 | it's going to be CPU/system ram dependent |
| 18:09.52 | Patlabor2221 | as the hardware usualy can't help with that |
| 18:10.35 | Patlabor2221 | and again Tim never answered my hardware/software rendering question. |
| 18:11.19 | CIA-1 | 03chestal * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (playing.cxx): be honest |
| 18:11.25 | Chestal | maybe we should make a poll to try and find out how many people use software rendering? |
| 18:11.29 | Chestal | here's one vote :-) |
| 18:11.43 | Patlabor2221 | I'm not talking about removing software |
| 18:11.54 | Patlabor2221 | just making some changes to be more hardware optimised |
| 18:11.56 | Chestal | well, if it gets slower, it's useless to me |
| 18:11.59 | Patlabor2221 | software would still work |
| 18:12.08 | Patlabor2221 | how fast is your CPU? |
| 18:12.19 | Chestal | I play at work, Dual PIII-500 |
| 18:12.27 | Patlabor2221 | it should not get slower for you |
| 18:12.34 | Patlabor2221 | it may use a tad more ram |
| 18:12.38 | Chestal | even when I switch from low detail to medium, it's unbearable |
| 18:12.39 | Patlabor2221 | but thats it |
| 18:12.45 | Chestal | because low has optimization to draw sky and ground |
| 18:12.55 | Chestal | withotu that optimisation, the speed is gone |
| 18:13.04 | Patlabor2221 | well we spend a lot of time figuring out what boxes to draw |
| 18:13.11 | Chestal | it's the drawing which is slow, not the calcs |
| 18:13.12 | Patlabor2221 | fix that, and everyone gets a big speed boost |
| 18:13.24 | Patlabor2221 | well yeah it's all slow for you |
| 18:13.26 | Chestal | of course, I cannot enable textures |
| 18:13.29 | Patlabor2221 | but the calcs take some time |
| 18:13.35 | Chestal | but lightign etc. does no harm to me at all |
| 18:13.38 | Patlabor2221 | can I just send you a new card? :) |
| 18:13.48 | Patlabor2221 | yeah, vertex ligthing is cheap |
| 18:14.21 | Chestal | so, the question remains how many peoep would miss fast software rendering |
| 18:14.44 | Patlabor2221 | well I think some of the changes I have in mind can speed up software too |
| 18:14.56 | Patlabor2221 | and you don't have even any hardware fill? |
| 18:15.02 | Patlabor2221 | totaly CPU based rendering? |
| 18:15.07 | Chestal | AFAIK, yes |
| 18:15.11 | Patlabor2221 | what card? |
| 18:15.16 | Chestal | on my home machine it's hardware |
| 18:15.20 | Patlabor2221 | ohh one of those tridents right? |
| 18:15.27 | Chestal | no, some ATI |
| 18:15.34 | Patlabor2221 | rage? |
| 18:15.35 | Chestal | I think in theory it can do some HW 3D |
| 18:15.39 | Chestal | yes, some rage |
| 18:15.46 | Patlabor2221 | yeah it can do a fill assist |
| 18:15.47 | Chestal | but it doesn#t work on my Linux box |
| 18:15.50 | Patlabor2221 | but the drivers for it suck |
| 18:15.58 | Chestal | so I had to go to 800x600 and 8bit |
| 18:16.01 | Patlabor2221 | don't think dri does an openGL implementation on them |
| 18:16.07 | Patlabor2221 | yeah I have the same thing on my laptop |
| 18:16.15 | Chestal | at home I have good old Matrox G400 |
| 18:16.19 | Chestal | gets decent framerates |
| 18:16.25 | Patlabor2221 | that is also a fill card |
| 18:16.29 | Chestal | but has some GL issues with 1.10 |
| 18:16.31 | Patlabor2221 | no T&L |
| 18:16.47 | Patlabor2221 | well learner found a GL error in text font that could jack the state |
| 18:16.53 | Chestal | that#s not it |
| 18:16.54 | Patlabor2221 | begin end mismatch |
| 18:16.55 | Patlabor2221 | ahh |
| 18:16.57 | Chestal | I disabled the draw routine |
| 18:17.01 | Chestal | and still get the problem |
| 18:17.05 | Patlabor2221 | eww |
| 18:17.13 | Chestal | was kinda hard to navigate the menus withotu any text .-) |
| 18:17.22 | Patlabor2221 | seriously I can send you a GF 2MX :) |
| 18:17.29 | Chestal | the problem is in the code |
| 18:18.02 | Chestal | I am sure it's the same as the ALT_Tab |
| 18:18.02 | Patlabor2221 | MAC wants to go to a min of Hardware T&L |
| 18:18.02 | Patlabor2221 | so a GF1 |
| 18:18.02 | Chestal | T&L cards have been aroudn how long? 3 years? |
| 18:18.05 | Patlabor2221 | more IIRC |
| 18:18.05 | Chestal | there are anachronisms in bzflag code which reach back almsot 10 years |
| 18:18.13 | Patlabor2221 | I had a quadro in 1998 I think |
| 18:18.18 | Patlabor2221 | yeah |
| 18:18.22 | Patlabor2221 | all the 3dfx stuff |
| 18:18.27 | Patlabor2221 | the support for GL 1.0 |
| 18:18.38 | Patlabor2221 | is there really any system that dosn't have at least GL 1.1 ? |
| 18:18.42 | Chestal | like the infaous for loop scope |
| 18:18.56 | Chestal | or us not using exceptions (ok, make that 6 years for practical purposes) |
| 18:19.03 | Patlabor2221 | heh |
| 18:19.18 | Chestal | in comparison to those, 3D cards have just emerged yesterday |
| 18:19.29 | Patlabor2221 | yeah but you have to evolve |
| 18:19.44 | Patlabor2221 | is the projet goal to support every old peice of hardware |
| 18:19.55 | Patlabor2221 | what percentage of those old system play |
| 18:20.02 | Chestal | that's the question |
| 18:20.11 | Patlabor2221 | that's why I say the list server should keep track of the OS that people use to connect to it |
| 18:20.22 | Patlabor2221 | and maybe that GL line |
| 18:20.32 | Patlabor2221 | that could be some very usefull info |
| 18:20.46 | Chestal | could also make a poll on bzflag centrum of course |
| 18:20.56 | Chestal | I know that a lot of peopel play from work |
| 18:21.06 | Patlabor2221 | to me it seems that will only get you 30-50 people |
| 18:21.12 | Chestal | on the other hand, nowadays you do not get any video card withotu 3D (at least for the PC) anyway |
| 18:21.17 | Patlabor2221 | and those are just the vocal ones/ devs |
| 18:21.30 | Chestal | I consider the vocal ones to be more iportant than the others, though |
| 18:21.33 | Patlabor2221 | well you can, it's just REALLY hard |
| 18:21.43 | Chestal | so if all of them woudl use software rendering, it'd be a no-go :-) |
| 18:22.26 | Patlabor2221 | well I think that it is kinda sckewed as BZBB is like %50 linux, when I know that playerwise it has to be more like %75-80 windows |
| 18:22.45 | Patlabor2221 | well best thing would be to make the render a module then you could make a prety one, and a fast one |
| 18:22.58 | Patlabor2221 | like make the fast one not even think about textures |
| 18:23.04 | Patlabor2221 | and the prety one allways do textures |
| 18:23.11 | Patlabor2221 | would be better for both camps |
| 18:23.16 | Patlabor2221 | as each could be optimised |
| 18:23.35 | Chestal | of course, rendering is fast enough as is |
| 18:23.42 | Patlabor2221 | MAC arguement was that a GF2MX is $35 now |
| 18:23.45 | Chestal | so it only makes sense to optimise it for hw if we use new stuff |
| 18:24.02 | Patlabor2221 | actualy rendering could be a lot faster on hardware now |
| 18:24.03 | Chestal | peopel with good cards already should get > 200fps |
| 18:24.05 | Patlabor2221 | it's fast enought for you |
| 18:24.10 | Chestal | well, why have 1000fps |
| 18:24.16 | Patlabor2221 | for me, we flush the GPU cache wayyyyy to much |
| 18:24.27 | Chestal | yes, but fps are already too high |
| 18:24.31 | Patlabor2221 | yeah, you optimise it because you want to add more |
| 18:24.34 | Patlabor2221 | like lightmaps |
| 18:24.38 | Patlabor2221 | and particles |
| 18:24.44 | Patlabor2221 | those will bring it down fast |
| 18:25.00 | Chestal | yes, ok, that would be a reason |
| 18:25.05 | *** join/#bzflag david_v (~david_v@c213-200-135-241.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 18:25.08 | Chestal | I myself don#t need prettier gfx though |
| 18:25.25 | Chestal | if I woudl had them, I'd probably swith them of for serious play |
| 18:25.25 | Patlabor2221 | that is why I say split it up into 2 modules |
| 18:25.29 | Chestal | because it distracts |
| 18:25.37 | Patlabor2221 | so the performance module dosn't even have all that |
| 18:25.40 | Chestal | I play better wthout them :-9 |
| 18:25.49 | Patlabor2221 | some people do |
| 18:25.52 | Chestal | even the sfx that are there now distract me |
| 18:25.59 | Chestal | explosions for example |
| 18:26.06 | Patlabor2221 | well it is a crapy sound :) |
| 18:26.11 | Chestal | not the sund |
| 18:26.14 | Chestal | the visual |
| 18:26.23 | Patlabor2221 | well yeah it's crapy visualss too :) |
| 18:26.24 | Chestal | on my work machien I don't see those |
| 18:26.29 | Chestal | they block sight |
| 18:26.34 | Chestal | as well as the gm smoke |
| 18:26.34 | Patlabor2221 | it's too rough and too solid |
| 18:26.34 | Patlabor2221 | yeah |
| 18:26.37 | Chestal | not that I use gm anyway |
| 18:26.43 | Patlabor2221 | both of those are too blocky |
| 18:26.50 | learner | I _have_ a regexp library that I could include that will also work for windows |
| 18:26.50 | Chestal | pretty gfx are good to attract new players, hough |
| 18:27.00 | learner | morning guys |
| 18:27.00 | Patlabor2221 | with a paticle system they would actualy be more transperant |
| 18:27.03 | Chestal | boost:regexp also works on windows |
| 18:27.24 | Patlabor2221 | Chestal: actualy a lot of poeple find them good to play with, they help with the imersion |
| 18:27.41 | learner | chestal -- we found the cause of some serious graphics problems last night, I believe |
| 18:27.54 | Chestal | learner: bu tit#s not the cause of my video change bug |
| 18:27.54 | Patlabor2221 | but I agree in the current state they distract |
| 18:27.59 | Chestal | learner: I already tried |
| 18:28.17 | learner | tried what? |
| 18:28.26 | Chestal | learner: I disabled the draw function |
| 18:28.36 | Chestal | learner: simply put a return in the beginning of it |
| 18:28.45 | learner | ok, (me too) and? |
| 18:28.48 | Chestal | learner: and my change res bug (which is most probably also the alt-tab bug) is still there |
| 18:29.03 | learner | ah. k :( |
| 18:29.13 | Chestal | stragely, my shininess bug on the other machien has vanished withotu any code changes |
| 18:29.14 | learner | but I'm pretty sure that's my lighting bug :) |
| 18:29.57 | Chestal | learner: I just sped up snapshot code by changign one chracter in the code :-) |
| 18:29.59 | learner | also was able to get the config file to behave |
| 18:30.09 | learner | i saw.. dropped the compression level :) |
| 18:30.10 | Chestal | learner: further speedup cannot be easily achieved I fear |
| 18:30.26 | learner | i was asking why we compress at all really |
| 18:30.31 | Chestal | learner: I saw your last commit with th edebug statements |
| 18:30.42 | Chestal | you commenetd out the comparison with default value |
| 18:30.49 | Chestal | but it's designed to behave the way it was |
| 18:30.58 | learner | hmm? |
| 18:31.01 | learner | which file? |
| 18:31.07 | Chestal | well, now compression does not take up too much time (here) |
| 18:31.11 | Chestal | StateDatabase |
| 18:31.14 | learner | i haven't commited the config file changes either.. |
| 18:31.20 | Chestal | some cout statements and a lien commented out by // |
| 18:31.35 | learner | hrm.. might have been an "oops" |
| 18:31.39 | Chestal | I thought so |
| 18:31.52 | Chestal | the effeect is that it now saved BZDB values which were set to default |
| 18:32.01 | Chestal | which also holds true for email, where the default is "" |
| 18:32.02 | learner | oh, oops indeed |
| 18:32.06 | Chestal | so it wrote out "set email" |
| 18:32.14 | learner | no -- that was only for testing |
| 18:32.21 | learner | it's "back" |
| 18:32.28 | Chestal | so, what did you change? |
| 18:32.49 | learner | bzdb was doing everything right |
| 18:32.56 | Chestal | yes, that was my impression, too |
| 18:33.03 | Chestal | althoguh I was not so sur about empty strings |
| 18:33.09 | learner | the problem was the config file writer and the command manager reader, iirc |
| 18:33.13 | Chestal | because I haven't looked at the parser |
| 18:33.28 | learner | and the command manager writer too |
| 18:33.37 | Chestal | ah, ok, actual reading/writing is not done by bzdb? |
| 18:33.44 | learner | i'll start commiting -- it was just late (hence the oops) |
| 18:33.49 | Chestal | ok |
| 18:34.18 | Chestal | michael ripped out the email thingy, than put part of it back in |
| 18:34.35 | Chestal | so now we have the menu item, and when it#s empty, it gets auto-generated on next startup |
| 18:36.01 | CIA-1 | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/src/common (StateDatabase.cxx): oops.. evil dust bunnies are commiting random code in the middle of the night |
| 18:36.31 | learner | i believe i convinced tim that empty was okay |
| 18:37.04 | learner | he said he was concerned about bugs, and he said if it works, then okay |
| 18:37.45 | Chestal | so, yur changes now allow bzdb items which are "" to be wirtten/read? |
| 18:37.45 | sussudio | no, just bunnies, not evil dust. |
| 18:37.49 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-98-75.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 18:38.05 | learner | as long as the default is still to autogen it |
| 18:38.08 | learner | which it will be |
| 18:38.21 | Tupone | hi learner |
| 18:38.22 | learner | yea, allows "" to be read/written |
| 18:38.27 | learner | mornin' tupone |
| 18:38.39 | Chestal | and default is still ""? So "" means auto-generate still? |
| 18:38.40 | learner | simple little fixes |
| 18:38.54 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (~JBDiGriz@adsl-63-204-107-94.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net) |
| 18:38.55 | learner | no, default was changed for that reason -- default is now a keyword |
| 18:39.06 | learner | JBdiGriz: howdy! |
| 18:39.15 | JBdiGriz | heya |
| 18:39.24 | learner | i think the mac lighting bug has been found! |
| 18:39.41 | JBdiGriz | Who did the leg work, and what was it? |
| 18:39.45 | learner | now just have to figure out how to fix it |
| 18:40.42 | learner | OpenGLTexFont::draw routine ends up borking up the opengl state -- misses a glEnd every once in a blue moon |
| 18:41.10 | learner | i noticed the missing glEnd's .. MAC narrowed it down to that routine |
| 18:41.35 | JBdiGriz | MrAC is doing Mac debugging again? |
| 18:41.49 | learner | heh |
| 18:42.36 | learner | from the looks, the suspicious is still correct, that the bug was cross-platform -- just not near as nice with the os x ogl driver |
| 18:43.07 | learner | hrm.. so basically the dust bunnies just commited the wrong file -- that comment doesn't go there :) |
| 18:44.42 | Chestal | heh, my world weapons are not behaving |
| 18:44.49 | Chestal | on 59155 |
| 18:46.54 | JBdiGriz | It looks like the mac cross-system developing might be related to the opengl libraries in the SDK. Evidently they weren't shipped correctly in xcode 1.0 and aren't updated correctly unless you install 1.1 from scratch. |
| 18:48.53 | CIA-1 | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/src/common (ConfigFileManager.cxx): the config file manager must quotify empty strings as well or they will be the wrong set command (single arg set returns a value) |
| 18:49.16 | *** join/#bzflag tapo2 (~hannes@p5092881D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:49.30 | learner | JBdiGriz: hrm.. that's interesting. where'd you hear that? |
| 18:49.43 | JBdiGriz | Apple's xcode mailing list |
| 18:49.55 | learner | ah.. not on that one |
| 18:50.19 | Chestal | wtf is this ifdef LOST? |
| 18:50.31 | learner | did i do it? |
| 18:50.46 | learner | i hope not, cause I have no idea what LOST is |
| 18:50.56 | Chestal | no, it's here and there in the rendering code |
| 18:51.31 | Chestal | actually, only twice |
| 18:52.06 | Chestal | I was looking at BackGroundRenderer::drawGround() because it's the groudn which is messed up after res change |
| 18:52.22 | Chestal | but when I define LOST, it doesn't even compile |
| 18:52.33 | learner | is there a better bz header than common.h that all the opengl-including files have to include? |
| 18:53.59 | Chestal | common.h does not incude gl stuff I hope? |
| 18:53.59 | *** join/#bzflag TheDarkSamurai (~3eff4007@server24.greatnet.de) |
| 18:54.23 | TheDarkSamurai | no one online? |
| 18:55.24 | Patlabor2221 | hmm ADD strikes again |
| 18:55.29 | learner | it does not |
| 18:55.50 | Patlabor2221 | ok, impatience |
| 18:56.01 | Patlabor2221 | or were we all hiding? :) |
| 18:56.02 | learner | chestal: I'm trying to find a good location to put this debug code -- need something like what Patlabor2221 has.... :) |
| 18:56.16 | learner | tds is a bit odd |
| 18:56.17 | Patlabor2221 | what an assert? |
| 18:56.36 | learner | no, a file for opengl-ness to avoid the poo everywhere |
| 18:56.44 | Patlabor2221 | ohh yeah |
| 18:56.45 | learner | __APPLE__ etc |
| 18:56.51 | Patlabor2221 | want mine? |
| 18:56.53 | learner | I could shove my macros in there |
| 18:57.00 | learner | sure |
| 18:57.03 | Chestal | hmm, what is in LOST looks like dead code |
| 18:57.03 | Patlabor2221 | probably a good thing to have |
| 18:57.08 | Chestal | uses functions which do not exist anymore |
| 18:57.21 | learner | indeed -- i've just ran into a great need for it |
| 18:57.39 | Patlabor2221 | umm just CO on asgard sgl/3dview/inc/OpenGL.h |
| 18:58.37 | learner | want my defines to be added? they'll wrap the glBegin/End's with assertions -- good for debug mode, etc |
| 18:58.52 | Patlabor2221 | I don't really need it |
| 18:59.01 | learner | okie dokie |
| 18:59.14 | Patlabor2221 | if I do later I'll just grab it |
| 18:59.21 | Patlabor2221 | and put it in a #def _DEBUG |
| 18:59.30 | Patlabor2221 | or GL_DEBUG or something |
| 19:00.31 | Patlabor2221 | none of my drawing gets as freaky as that text font stuff |
| 19:00.34 | Patlabor2221 | wow was that odd |
| 19:00.43 | Patlabor2221 | and it's all done with lists |
| 19:01.55 | CIA-1 | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (CommandsStandard.cxx): make the command handling identical/consistent with what the server does. |
| 19:03.29 | CIA-1 | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (bzflag.cxx): email default value is not the empty string -- use an identifier to denote the special processing |
| 19:05.01 | CIA-1 | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (callbacks.cxx): |
| 19:05.02 | CIA-1 | if evil dust bunnies are going to commit code for me, they could at least try to commit the right code... |
| 19:05.02 | CIA-1 | fixed bug where setting zbuffer var in config file would crash client -- cannot perform callback until opengl context is created and active |
| 19:05.31 | Chestal | hmm, there's simplegroundlist and groundlist in Backgroudnrendeer |
| 19:05.34 | Chestal | and groundlist is never used |
| 19:05.39 | Chestal | only in those LOST things |
| 19:06.32 | CIA-1 | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (menus.cxx): removed the hard-coding of the lighting disable for os x as the problem appears to be narrowed down to OpenGLTexFont::draw |
| 19:10.38 | Chestal | uah, special code for Riva128 |
| 19:10.55 | *** join/#bzflag doughecka (~rooot@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net) |
| 19:15.13 | Patlabor2221 | they had some texturing bugs IIRC |
| 19:16.56 | ninjer_pistachio | is that in the ground drawing stuff? |
| 19:23.33 | Chestal | ninjer: yes |
| 19:25.07 | Chestal | maybe there is a bug in one of those refcountign rep classes? |
| 19:29.13 | CIA-1 | 03chestal * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (callbacks.cxx): make unused parameter anon |
| 19:30.26 | CIA-1 | 03chestal * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (menus.cxx): dump unused variable |
| 19:36.22 | ninjer_pistachio | Patlabor2221: i thnk i'm gonna need you to stick the abenobashi discs in a machine i have access to, at some point >:) |
| 19:36.36 | ninjer_pistachio | the more i read about it, the cooler it sounds |
| 19:38.13 | Patlabor2221 | ok |
| 19:38.21 | Patlabor2221 | sasami has a dvd |
| 19:38.26 | Patlabor2221 | and is ssh enabled |
| 19:56.17 | *** join/#bzflag ninjer_pistachio (~blardebla@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 19:57.58 | learner | oh, only missed one |
| 19:58.13 | *** join/#bzflag scanline (~micah@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 19:59.21 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-1 (~CIA-1@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 19:59.45 | learner | Chestal: how long did compression level 0 take? |
| 20:00.11 | Chestal | learner: not much faster, compression now takes much less time than those glReadPixels for me |
| 20:00.35 | Chestal | learner: fiel size was maybe 10% bigger than with level 9, and 6 times as fast |
| 20:00.37 | learner | ah, it got below the time it takes to apply the gamma correction then? |
| 20:00.41 | Chestal | with level 0 fiel was huge and not much faster |
| 20:00.48 | Chestal | gamam correction is fast |
| 20:00.52 | Chestal | glReadPixels is slow |
| 20:00.58 | learner | right, I'd expect there to be a tradeoff since there's more disk io |
| 20:01.12 | learner | okay, just wondering |
| 20:01.23 | Chestal | the gl calls alone are more than 80% of the time now I think |
| 20:01.28 | Chestal | YMMV of course |
| 20:01.38 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor22111 (~JeffM@adsl-64-167-79-246.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 20:01.38 | learner | heh, okay |
| 20:02.03 | learner | did you go nr, when screenshoting? |
| 20:02.09 | learner | e.g. did you drop flag? |
| 20:02.29 | Patlabor22111 | ugg I hate that |
| 20:03.06 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 20:03.45 | Chestal | learner: haven't tested, but I got lag warnings with level 9 (took >2s for snapshot, now down to 0.8s or so for me on 1024x768) |
| 20:04.04 | Chestal | and 0.55s of this is glReadPixels |
| 20:04.10 | Patlabor221 | ~nslookup sasami.bakadigital.com |
| 20:04.39 | scanline | Chestal: glreadpixels can be fast if you pick the right format |
| 20:04.44 | scanline | well, relatively fast |
| 20:05.30 | ninjer_pistachio | scanline: compared to taking digital photos of a hexdump of the memory and typing it back in? |
| 20:05.46 | Patlabor221 | render to a texture |
| 20:05.52 | scanline | ninjer_pistachio: yes |
| 20:05.54 | Chestal | what are ground receivers? |
| 20:06.04 | scanline | ninjer_pistachio: a little faster |
| 20:06.07 | Patlabor221 | places where UPS drops stuff off |
| 20:06.52 | Chestal | ah, seem to be for lighting, hmm |
| 20:08.07 | learner | yes.. rendering to a texture would definately be better/faster -- then screenshots would just dump to disk |
| 20:08.26 | Patlabor221 | but I don't know if older GL 1.0 implemenations can do that |
| 20:08.34 | Chestal | well, screenshots are not that important after all |
| 20:08.45 | Chestal | they work ok now, it#s not liek you do them all the time durign normal playing |
| 20:08.48 | Patlabor221 | glReadPixels is probably the LCD solution |
| 20:09.25 | Patlabor221 | there is a slower way, you can call the windows getPixelColor() :) |
| 20:09.26 | scanline | jetstream's video recorder used rendering to texture to scale down the images in hardware, then grabbed the smaller images with glReadPixels IIRC |
| 20:10.19 | Patlabor221 | allocate up some AGP mem and use that for the texture :) |
| 20:11.25 | Pimpinella | Patlabor221: didnt get pages from sasami.bakadigital.com |
| 20:11.41 | Chestal | what is flagpolesize? |
| 20:12.13 | learner | mac added that, so you can describe how big the flag poles are |
| 20:12.30 | Patlabor221 | your not suposed to get pages from that site :) |
| 20:12.44 | Pimpinella | well then... :) |
| 20:12.47 | Patlabor221 | not all DNSs are for http connetions :) |
| 20:13.27 | Pimpinella | but i got respose from port 80 |
| 20:13.33 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 20:14.07 | Patlabor221 | that would be the firewall |
| 20:16.28 | Patlabor221 | I have? |
| 20:18.19 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-98-75.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 20:39.16 | Chestal | somethign is wrong with the display lsts |
| 20:39.30 | Chestal | it gets reused, although it is still logically in use |
| 20:40.42 | Chestal | do they get deleted by anythign else than glDeleteLists? |
| 20:40.53 | Chestal | on initcontext or something? |
| 20:41.24 | david_v | Chestal: TLZ-Fortix 7-3 |
| 20:41.31 | Patlabor221 | rebuilding a context shoudl give you new list IDs |
| 20:41.31 | Chestal | david_v: already know :-) |
| 20:41.34 | Patlabor221 | they are per context |
| 20:41.38 | Chestal | hmm |
| 20:41.39 | Patlabor221 | not system global |
| 20:41.41 | Chestal | that would be bad |
| 20:41.51 | Chestal | that woudl mess up the bzflag class |
| 20:41.58 | Patlabor221 | a yup |
| 20:42.01 | david_v | Chestal: ah k |
| 20:42.21 | Patlabor221 | when the context is rebuild all things that use lists shoudl rebuild there lists, and all bound textures shoudl be rebound |
| 20:42.23 | Chestal | OpenGLDisplayList uses ref counting to manage the lists |
| 20:42.38 | Chestal | it would mess up whenever a new list would get an id that is still referenced |
| 20:42.48 | Patlabor221 | if the context is reset, all those refs shoudl be set to 0 |
| 20:42.52 | Patlabor221 | or invalid |
| 20:42.58 | Patlabor221 | cus the lists on the card are probably gone |
| 20:42.58 | Chestal | hmmhmm |
| 20:43.31 | Chestal | you are sure about this, yes? |
| 20:43.41 | Chestal | I think the code has always been like this |
| 20:43.50 | Chestal | if so, it has been a bug for years |
| 20:44.27 | Patlabor221 | well that's how it can work, many implemtations don't blow out the lists till the process dies |
| 20:44.30 | Patlabor221 | but not all |
| 20:44.36 | Patlabor221 | I have seen lists get lost for years now |
| 20:44.55 | Chestal | I ave been logging some of the list ids, especially for the ground |
| 20:45.09 | Chestal | I get 15 for first context |
| 20:45.16 | Chestal | then 38 for second |
| 20:45.24 | Chestal | 15 gets freed by bz |
| 20:45.29 | Chestal | then I get 13 |
| 20:45.33 | Chestal | 38 gets freed by bz |
| 20:45.36 | Chestal | then I get 13 |
| 20:45.39 | Chestal | 13 gets freed by bz - oops |
| 20:45.55 | Chestal | (new context before each 'then') |
| 20:45.59 | Patlabor221 | this is why it's good for each thing to handle it's own lists |
| 20:47.04 | CIA-1 | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (BackgroundRenderer.cxx): cast constants to GLenum type in case compiler or defines are troublesome |
| 20:47.21 | Chestal | those numbers are returned by glGenLists |
| 20:47.31 | Chestal | let#s say I call glGenLists and get 1 |
| 20:47.45 | Chestal | what should I do when I want to create a new context |
| 20:47.47 | Patlabor221 | k |
| 20:47.55 | Patlabor221 | free the lists |
| 20:48.00 | Patlabor221 | make the context |
| 20:48.04 | Patlabor221 | then allocate a new list |
| 20:48.13 | Chestal | so, I don't have do delete the old one |
| 20:48.21 | Patlabor221 | the old context? |
| 20:48.27 | Chestal | the odl list |
| 20:48.33 | Patlabor221 | that's what I mean by free the list |
| 20:48.36 | Patlabor221 | it's best to free them |
| 20:48.41 | Patlabor221 | glDeleteLists |
| 20:48.55 | Chestal | what creates the new context? initGLstate? |
| 20:49.08 | Chestal | mybe these are bz functions |
| 20:49.11 | Patlabor221 | I don't know where BZ calls it |
| 20:49.25 | Patlabor221 | you get a new openGL context from a OS function |
| 20:49.31 | Chestal | hmm |
| 20:49.32 | Patlabor221 | the wgl functions on windows |
| 20:49.41 | Patlabor221 | so maybe "context" in BZ isn't a real GL context |
| 20:49.46 | Patlabor221 | but a "state" context |
| 20:50.31 | Tupone | glXCreateContext |
| 20:50.56 | Patlabor221 | on windows on an OS activate event, your suposed to reinitalise your openGL context, cus another app may have gone and taken all the system resources and blown out your textures/lists |
| 20:51.49 | Chestal | Patlabor: that happens when you switch with alt-tab? |
| 20:56.31 | Chestal | I am quite confused now |
| 20:56.43 | Chestal | several windows can shar a context though I assume? |
| 20:57.05 | Chestal | hmm, actually it looks like in bz each gets their own |
| 20:57.35 | Chestal | hmm, -view three cores anyway |
| 20:58.08 | Chestal | because as far as I see, the display list class has no ntion of contexts |
| 20:58.10 | ninjer_pistachio | three is coring? |
| 20:58.17 | Chestal | which is very bad when there is more than one |
| 20:58.18 | ninjer_pistachio | i would expect stereo to not work, but three should work |
| 20:58.22 | Chestal | cores |
| 20:58.31 | Chestal | -view stacked does, too |
| 20:58.42 | Chestal | althoguh I am running a modified debug verson here |
| 20:59.00 | Tupone | you could share list between context |
| 20:59.31 | ninjer_pistachio | oogabooga, transcode has too many dependencies |
| 20:59.50 | KR | anyone up for some CTF on Chestals 1.10 server? |
| 21:00.13 | KR | <pardon for barging in and asking> |
| 21:00.17 | Chestal | hmm, maybe the context agnostic list class can work if you are careful when using it |
| 21:01.08 | Chestal | I wodner how to fix this, this is fundamentally broken |
| 21:01.16 | Chestal | and I am surprised that it sometimes works |
| 21:02.47 | Chestal | simpel fix is to never release lists ;-) |
| 21:02.51 | Chestal | I'll try that for a start |
| 21:04.45 | Chestal | hmm, this fixes the main problem, only leaves one small ugly effect |
| 21:19.42 | Patlabor221 | Chestal: the best way is to redo the entire drawing system to make it more modular |
| 21:24.35 | Patlabor221 | so that lists arn't passed around all over the place |
| 21:24.48 | Patlabor221 | just logical game objects |
| 21:34.09 | Chestal | wow, had to call someone to kill bzflag for me |
| 21:34.25 | Chestal | and had to think of a way so I would not had to give any of my pw :-) |
| 21:34.33 | Chestal | I really need some other PC or terminal here |
| 21:47.52 | Chestal | I suppose it's the same with textures (and maybe other gl objects)? |
| 21:48.12 | ninjer_pistachio | Chestal: you couldn't switch to text console? |
| 21:48.46 | KR | Q: what is the number in [ ]'s next to the kill/killed stats by a players name? |
| 21:48.56 | Patlabor221 | well yeah you want each thing to take care of its'elf. But textures are shared, so it's good to have one manager for them |
| 21:49.33 | Patlabor221 | I have a thing that manages them, and jsut loads and releases them as needed. the app code never directly deals with an OpenGL Texture ID or object |
| 21:49.44 | Chestal | ninjer: no, kb was locked up somehow, coudl not even switch num lock state |
| 21:50.08 | Chestal | ye, but I mean textured will behave just like lists |
| 21:50.18 | Chestal | i.e. when there is a new context, ids will be reused |
| 21:50.45 | Patlabor221 | on a new glCOntext I flush all textures then they get reloaded the first time they are used again |
| 21:54.23 | Chestal | kr: teamkills |
| 21:54.34 | KR | ahh ok thx :) |
| 22:07.54 | KR | looking at the TODO list - the PZ shots sounds like a good, funny idea :) |
| 22:12.49 | *** join/#bzflag Ares (~user@104.173.33.65.cfl.rr.com) |
| 22:13.20 | Ares | hi guys |
| 22:13.29 | Ares | happy new years to everyone |
| 22:15.39 | *** join/#bzflag Oman (~18f78b5b@server24.greatnet.de) |
| 22:16.08 | Oman | can anyone run a g2 sever with all gm flags i am working on a new bzflag |
| 22:18.12 | Oman | can any one Type Yes if you can and No if you can't |
| 22:21.22 | KR | Oman - No, I can't - why can';t you run it? |
| 22:22.04 | Oman | I can't my roter is messed up |
| 22:22.31 | KR | also, if other people here are like I am - sometimes many minutes go by without me looking at this chat - so patience is a virtue - your answer will come, just not immediately :) |
| 22:22.48 | Oman | lol |
| 22:22.51 | KR | what about your buddy Ian? |
| 22:23.10 | Oman | his computer is messed up his dad messed it up |
| 22:23.18 | KR | ah ok |
| 22:24.33 | |tim| | How is a spoon gourmet if its plastic? |
| 22:26.42 | Oman | It a Chocolate covering |
| 22:26.54 | Oman | It has a chocolate covering |
| 22:27.25 | |tim| | hehe |
| 22:27.31 | Oman | is that it |
| 22:28.20 | |tim| | but its still plastic |
| 22:28.30 | Oman | yes |
| 22:29.22 | Oman | why are we talking about a spoon for |
| 22:29.40 | |tim| | I dunno, I was just speaking my mind |
| 22:29.50 | Oman | lol |
| 22:30.03 | *** join/#bzflag creeperz (creeperz@host-179-73-220-24.midco.net) |
| 22:38.10 | CIA-1 | 03chestal * 12bzflag/ (BUGS): long lamenting on gl |
| 22:40.37 | *** join/#bzflag tapo (~tapo@pD955BDEE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:40.45 | Patlabor221 | you ready to replace it with something a little less primitive yet? |
| 22:43.36 | Chestal | if it were primitve, it would be easier to replace :-) |
| 22:43.48 | Chestal | the problem is tha tit already tries to be clever but simply makes wrong assumptions |
| 22:43.49 | Patlabor221 | ok a little less fulgy :) |
| 22:43.59 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 22:44.02 | Patlabor221 | it's too clever |
| 22:44.17 | Patlabor221 | the need to be clever is not that important these days |
| 22:44.17 | Chestal | I guess the fastest way to fix it would be to add another callback mechanism for destroying contexts |
| 22:44.36 | Chestal | I do not understand the other bug I mention, though |
| 22:44.51 | Chestal | and I do also not understand how -view three coudl ever have worked |
| 22:45.03 | Chestal | either the code has changed or the code for irix etc. where it has worked is different |
| 22:45.13 | Patlabor221 | I don't understand how currently pyramid collisions can even work |
| 22:45.24 | Patlabor221 | how many irix users are there? |
| 22:45.35 | Chestal | I started plainy bzflag there |
| 22:45.39 | ninjer_pistachio | 2? maybe 3? :) |
| 22:45.49 | Chestal | bz has a big irix tradition |
| 22:45.50 | Patlabor221 | I don't care about the past, I want to know about now |
| 22:45.53 | Chestal | but that#s not th epoint |
| 22:45.55 | Patlabor221 | how many now |
| 22:46.01 | Chestal | that's not th epoint |
| 22:46.07 | ninjer_pistachio | i know there are a few |
| 22:46.10 | Chestal | the point is I want to know how it could have worked |
| 22:46.27 | Chestal | well, I am frustrated now |
| 22:46.32 | Chestal | as revenge I will delete some code :-) |
| 22:46.43 | Patlabor221 | my point is that if we keep holding onto that "gotta support the old systems because of nestalga" the game will never grow |
| 22:48.04 | Patlabor221 | you and Tim are the last stalwart champtions of old hardware :) |
| 22:51.24 | CIA-1 | 03chestal * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (3 files): I have no clue what this code exactly is, but it looks ancient; removed code inside #ifdef LOST, didn't compiel anyway when activated |
| 22:53.16 | Chestal | someone better fix those -view modes, or I will rip them out, too :-) |
| 22:53.30 | Chestal | next will be textures, when not fixed |
| 22:54.13 | Pimpinella | Chestal <-- Terminator |
| 22:54.36 | Patlabor221 | he's our govenor!?!?! |
| 22:55.20 | Pimpinella | g'night all |
| 22:55.30 | *** join/#bzflag |tim| (~|tim|@ip68-106-184-191.sb.sd.cox.net) |
| 22:56.29 | Chestal | hmm, I don't think on Linux one ever has to create a new context, I don't see when |
| 22:56.39 | Chestal | might be different on Windows, though |
| 22:58.00 | Patlabor221 | we are suposed to on at least display and pallet changes |
| 22:58.00 | Chestal | I don't liek that concept of a hidden parameter to all gl calls |
| 22:58.13 | Patlabor221 | hiden paramater? |
| 22:58.14 | Chestal | if oen would wrap it in C++ classes, you'd probably make all of them methods of the glcontext class |
| 22:58.28 | Chestal | well, they all operate on the context 'object' |
| 22:59.02 | Patlabor221 | this is the bzflag GL state context? |
| 22:59.10 | Chestal | yes |
| 22:59.19 | Chestal | I guess we could keep some context id/object ourselves |
| 22:59.33 | Chestal | so the functins which must now coudl check if it's still the same context they expect to work on |
| 22:59.39 | Patlabor221 | well if I was to make the changes I wated for hardware we would not need most of that state stuff |
| 22:59.56 | Patlabor221 | cus sorting would be based on texture ID, then just by material color |
| 22:59.59 | Chestal | I'd like it to work in 1.10, though |
| 23:00.09 | Patlabor221 | well it used to work |
| 23:00.17 | Patlabor221 | you can trace back and see when it broke |
| 23:00.37 | Chestal | unless somethign big changed it only ever worked by chance |
| 23:00.46 | Chestal | it's conceptually broken |
| 23:00.50 | Patlabor221 | probable |
| 23:00.55 | Patlabor221 | most of the system works by chance :) |
| 23:01.10 | Chestal | I guess al those rep classes could remember the context they belong to |
| 23:01.21 | Chestal | then on each operatin (especially destruction) check if the context is still the same |
| 23:01.24 | Chestal | if not, do nothing |
| 23:01.37 | Chestal | woudl require that we have some global context id |
| 23:03.19 | Chestal | the sad thing is that the contetx is platform specific, could maybe add to the make/freecontext calls in the abtract base class |
| 23:04.02 | Patlabor221 | the state should be restated on each windows activate evenet |
| 23:04.35 | Chestal | I only looked at the XWidnow implemenation |
| 23:04.42 | Patlabor221 | I know |
| 23:04.54 | Patlabor221 | do a base class make and free would be a good thing |
| 23:05.10 | Chestal | and in case of multiple windows it has a functon which gets called on resolution change which creates a new contetx for all windows |
| 23:05.48 | Chestal | I guess the contetx is switch somewhere in the main loop in playing.cxx |
| 23:05.53 | Chestal | when there are 3 windows |
| 23:06.25 | Chestal | this would all possibly work when caurion is taken, that never any object becomes active unless the correct gl context is active |
| 23:06.42 | Patlabor221 | when is there more then one window? |
| 23:06.51 | Chestal | by it breaks down when the contetx for a window is changed |
| 23:07.01 | Chestal | only in -view three etc. I think |
| 23:07.06 | Patlabor221 | ahhh |
| 23:07.07 | Chestal | and those simpyl crash for me now |
| 23:07.14 | Chestal | in latest 1.7, too, btw. |
| 23:07.18 | Patlabor221 | I've never seen those work |
| 23:07.26 | Chestal | I think I remember that sometime ago some effort was put into it to make them work |
| 23:07.33 | Chestal | Tim is a fan of those |
| 23:07.34 | Patlabor221 | so pull them, and make who ever used them, reimplement them proper :) |
| 23:07.43 | Patlabor221 | I think that was in 1.8 |
| 23:07.53 | Patlabor221 | so he can put them back in proper :) |
| 23:08.09 | Chestal | but even without it, there's still the problem with context recreation |
| 23:10.53 | Patlabor221 | gahhh damnit I screwed up, gotta go think now |
| 23:11.28 | Chestal | thinking is not healthy |
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