| 00:02.24 | Tupone | It works! (Your server) Mine fixes not :) |
| 00:04.47 | Chestal | uhm? |
| 00:04.52 | Chestal | ah, I c |
| 00:04.55 | Chestal | good night |
| 00:04.59 | Tupone | night |
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| 00:43.07 | tapo | what is "type V" for in man bzfs, last line, undescibed example of "weapon". I'm searching in the source some time now... :-) |
| 00:52.07 | Michaelh | ? |
| 00:52.10 | Michaelh | :) |
| 00:52.58 | Michaelh | Can you quote it for us? |
| 00:53.47 | tapo | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:53.47 | tapo | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:53.47 | tapo | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:53.47 | tapo | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:53.47 | tapo | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:53.48 | tapo | <PROTECTED> |
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| 00:53.50 | tapo | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:53.52 | tapo | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:54.55 | tapo | thats all. no more information. :) |
| 00:55.08 | Michaelh | is that in a map? |
| 00:55.37 | Michaelh | There are some "world weapons" that are like fixed cannons that shoot stuff at people |
| 00:55.43 | tapo | it is from the bzfs man page. it runs in a small map I've created 5 minutes ago- |
| 00:55.44 | Michaelh | I think that's probably one of them |
| 00:55.56 | Michaelh | You mean which kind of weapon is it? |
| 00:56.00 | tapo | yes, I let it shoot at a pyramid, so the shot reflects with nice sound... |
| 00:56.15 | tapo | yes, what means "V". And what other types are allowed? |
| 00:56.25 | Michaelh | Not really a map maker myself.. have to ask someone else |
| 00:56.29 | Michaelh | WAKEY WAKEY |
| 00:56.38 | DTRemenak | Looking at the source, it looks like it's a reference to a FlagType |
| 00:56.40 | tapo | no no ssht. :) |
| 00:56.54 | DTRemenak | try a different flag |
| 00:56.54 | tapo | yes, a FlagType. found that, too. |
| 00:56.57 | DTRemenak | GM? |
| 00:56.58 | Michaelh | Which is probably just a hack |
| 00:57.09 | DTRemenak | quite possibly, but it's worth a try |
| 00:57.24 | DTRemenak | see if changing it in your world file to GM or L does what one would expect |
| 00:57.39 | Michaelh | should be some map makers here somewhere |
| 00:57.47 | tapo | trying... |
| 00:58.16 | tapo | yes, GM works. |
| 00:58.20 | DTRemenak | lol |
| 00:58.29 | DTRemenak | Wonder why the example is V |
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| 00:59.40 | tapo | Wonder who on earth will use the world weapon feature... :-) |
| 00:59.54 | tapo | ok, good night. 1.59 local time... |
| 01:00.17 | dabomb | bye bye |
| 01:00.51 | tapo | I've set an alarm in my HP48G :-) bye... |
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| 01:41.28 | Michaelh | . |
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| 01:58.47 | MrApathyCream | mornin' tupone |
| 01:59.00 | Tupone | I should say night |
| 01:59.13 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o MrApathyCream] by ChanServ |
| 02:02.15 | Tupone | MrApathyCream: That drifty dead tank thing is fixed for you? |
| 02:04.01 | MrApathyCream | haven't tried it |
| 02:06.34 | Tupone | I'm thinking about spam in the air: I suppose you get that if you are center is outside the box border but some part is in. |
| 02:06.50 | Tupone | s/you are/your/ |
| 02:07.29 | captain_proton | so when did this "no pausing in the air" thing come about? |
| 02:08.45 | Tupone | Don't understand the relation (it's too late for me). I was talking about a BUG listed as "sometime spwan in the air" |
| 02:09.19 | captain_proton | no relation, new subject |
| 02:09.32 | Tupone | OK! |
| 02:10.15 | MrApathyCream | captain_proton: huh? |
| 02:10.54 | Michaelh | ? |
| 02:11.31 | captain_proton | why isn't pausing in the air allowed anymore? |
| 02:19.20 | MrApathyCream | didn't know it wasn't |
| 02:21.08 | Michaelh | did some rapid developer do away with that? |
| 02:22.08 | learner | there was a reason, but it's not coming to me right this second -- something problem with dropping a flag while mid-jump (since flags may be ejected when paused now) |
| 02:22.23 | learner | s/mid-jump/in air/ |
| 02:23.30 | Michaelh | player gets kicked or something? |
| 02:23.55 | MrApathyCream | could be learner |
| 02:25.00 | learner | that might have been it -- if you were falling/jumping with the J flag for example, and pause eventually drops your flag -- you'll be perceived as cheating by server and get kicked |
| 02:25.08 | learner | s/J/JP/ |
| 02:27.51 | learner | if chestal would have actually made that field a lastFlagCarried field -- the server could actually check if JP was dropped -- but as it is, the server doesn't know |
| 02:30.23 | MrApathyCream | speaking of chestal, can anyone else reproduce the white ness problem with rabbit? |
| 02:34.49 | learner | :) |
| 02:35.12 | captain_proton | heh |
| 02:35.26 | MrApathyCream | anyone try setting it to like 30? |
| 02:36.18 | MrApathyCream | heh check out: http://ibot.rikers.org/bzflag/ kind of austere |
| 02:36.57 | captain_proton | =} |
| 02:37.42 | learner | apathy, did you see chestal's comment about xerces? |
| 02:43.16 | MrApathyCream | reading now |
| 02:43.22 | MrApathyCream | yes |
| 02:43.46 | MrApathyCream | jaxb does automatic schema to code generation for reading xml 'config files' |
| 02:43.54 | MrApathyCream | verry sw33t. |
| 02:44.03 | MrApathyCream | of course the downside in this case is that it's java :) |
| 02:44.34 | MrApathyCream | presents object oriented view of the data |
| 02:44.38 | MrApathyCream | with full validation |
| 02:44.59 | MrApathyCream | but xerces has full dom/sax/xslt processors |
| 02:45.36 | MrApathyCream | and open source to boot |
| 02:46.18 | MrApathyCream | the xsl seems to work fully now. altho i'm far from a graphical designer |
| 02:46.51 | MrApathyCream | jst need to add a xsl stylesheet reference to all oof the xml files |
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| 02:48.02 | learner | those files will get rendered to multiple means, though - not just docs/html |
| 02:48.19 | Michaelh | the server could use a config file |
| 02:48.26 | MrApathyCream | ya |
| 02:48.41 | MrApathyCream | it's hard to believe that you can't associate an xsl file and an xml file in the browser itself |
| 02:48.50 | MrApathyCream | altho i suppose you could with javascript |
| 02:50.46 | learner | shame apache's FOP is java-based |
| 02:51.07 | MrApathyCream | all the good xml stuff is java |
| 02:53.02 | captain_proton | python is getting some decent xml stuff, slowly |
| 02:53.03 | learner | xerces really looks good to me, I'm not familiar with it's actual size impact |
| 02:53.29 | MrApathyCream | size,shmize |
| 02:53.40 | MrApathyCream | last i looked disks are cheap |
| 02:53.59 | learner | not to ches :/ |
| 02:54.11 | MrApathyCream | awl come one.... :) |
| 02:54.18 | learner | he seems to be the flag-carrier of the minimum system requirement :) |
| 02:54.22 | MrApathyCream | it's like a buck a gig or something |
| 02:54.30 | MrApathyCream | cheaper |
| 02:55.00 | MrApathyCream | certainly if the xml is to be converted to html on the server it is simple to do |
| 02:55.07 | captain_proton | cheapest i've seen is $0.61/G |
| 02:55.11 | learner | I agree -- I think it's should be the last thing considered -- heck we're "tiny" compared to most games |
| 02:55.22 | MrApathyCream | But if they are part of the distro, and users want to view them as html it's a pain |
| 02:55.30 | learner | i meant what the size impact will be on installed binaries |
| 02:55.48 | learner | if a parser was embedded into the server and client |
| 02:56.22 | MrApathyCream | dunno |
| 02:57.05 | MrApathyCream | the xerces dll is 2m |
| 02:57.19 | MrApathyCream | (for windows obviously) |
| 02:57.38 | captain_proton | linux has dlls now ;) |
| 02:57.48 | captain_proton | the open-source .net implementation stores stuff in them |
| 02:59.34 | learner | well.. that's bound to be smaller than embedding a similar fully-functional parser via an embedded tcl/java/python interpreter.. ;) |
| 02:59.45 | captain_proton | =} |
| 02:59.51 | captain_proton | embedded java would be terrifying |
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| 03:03.45 | MrApathyCream | captain_proton: would be easy at least, and wouldn't need 10 versions :) |
| 03:04.41 | captain_proton | heh |
| 03:07.00 | MrApathyCream | of course you would need to ask the question "What version of java do you have" about a zillion times |
| 03:07.13 | learner | hehe |
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| 03:24.28 | MrApathyCream | poor CIA |
| 03:29.16 | MrApathyCream | anyone know where bots look at buildings to find appropriate paths? |
| 03:30.23 | MrApathyCream | ah i found it |
| 03:30.25 | MrApathyCream | nevermind |
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| 03:36.57 | ivan | whoops i accidently geno'd my team |
| 03:37.02 | ivan | 4 walrus sounds |
| 03:37.29 | ivan | worst part is it wasn't a misfire i wasn't thinking and did a full attack :( |
| 03:41.02 | MrApathyCream | ummm it's a donkey sound hoss |
| 03:41.08 | MrApathyCream | a jackarse |
| 03:42.22 | MrApathyCream | bummer, tim isn't even lurking tonite |
| 03:51.16 | Michaelh | is that just for help and documentation? |
| 03:51.22 | Michaelh | or something else? |
| 03:53.38 | MrApathyCream | Michaelh: the xml? |
| 03:56.05 | Michaelh | yes |
| 03:56.31 | MrApathyCream | learner has big plans |
| 03:56.43 | MrApathyCream | used for in game and web site i think |
| 03:57.04 | Michaelh | hmm |
| 03:58.32 | Michaelh | Is there such a thing as a compact simple, xml parser? |
| 04:00.47 | MrApathyCream | prolly |
| 04:04.37 | Michaelh | I think we could just require the Java Runtime..... :) |
| 04:05.30 | Michaelh | I am off to bed |
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| 04:26.10 | MrApathyCream | i kind of like the 'require to identify' bzfs option |
| 04:27.18 | shkoo | so commit it. :) |
| 04:27.54 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 04:28.06 | MrApathyCream | i would if I knew what version we were working on |
| 04:28.22 | MrApathyCream | fine for 1.12, lil iffy for 1.10.4 |
| 04:28.32 | MrApathyCream | altho i spose i'm a weenie |
| 04:34.10 | MrApathyCream | But Jeff hasn't finished the design specifications for either product, alas |
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| 05:02.07 | ivan | i hear bzflag sounds even when bzflag isn't running |
| 05:02.12 | ivan | especially shockwave and bullets |
| 05:02.24 | ivan | er no all of them |
| 05:02.50 | ivan | the metaserver should check the actual number of players per server periodically |
| 05:02.57 | ivan | if its off by more than 2, remove them from the list |
| 05:03.29 | ivan | hashmark is a major offendor |
| 05:23.37 | learner | MrApathyCream: assuming we get away with it, I think this weekend will be a great time to fork off a maintenance branch for 1.10 so head development can proceed -- what thinks you? |
| 05:25.04 | MrApathyCream | good by me |
| 05:30.14 | MrApathyCream | ivan how close are u patlabor? |
| 05:30.31 | MrApathyCream | er u to patlabor |
| 05:33.32 | MrApathyCream | shessh has learned the art of lurking from tim quite well |
| 05:33.38 | MrApathyCream | er, learner |
| 05:33.48 | learner | hmm? |
| 05:34.00 | MrApathyCream | there he is! |
| 05:34.15 | learner | there i am? what? you chatting to the wrong channel again? :) |
| 05:34.40 | MrApathyCream | i'm a one channel guy :) |
| 05:35.17 | learner | you asked how close ivan was to patlabor.. since I'm not even ivan I did not respond :P |
| 05:35.19 | learner | :) |
| 05:35.37 | MrApathyCream | i responded to your shall we fork, and the crickets sung |
| 05:35.58 | learner | hehe |
| 05:36.02 | captain_proton | i like crickets |
| 05:36.28 | MrApathyCream | so cap you planin' on helpin out on 1.12? |
| 05:36.33 | learner | i heard and was filled with silent glee from within emacs |
| 05:36.51 | MrApathyCream | 'silent glee' :) |
| 05:36.56 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: maybe |
| 05:37.08 | MrApathyCream | only the hard stuff tho i assume |
| 05:37.17 | captain_proton | but of course |
| 05:37.23 | captain_proton | i'm thinking of starting by updating copyright ;) |
| 05:37.34 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 05:38.10 | MrApathyCream | fill your quota for spring then |
| 05:39.53 | captain_proton | yay, this transfer is going at all of 1B/s |
| 05:40.27 | learner | 1 bit / sec? eek |
| 05:40.59 | captain_proton | well, byte |
| 05:41.03 | learner | g'night all! |
| 05:41.17 | MrApathyCream | beauty sleep? |
| 05:41.30 | learner | i wouldn't call it that |
| 05:42.46 | learner | wandering off to ponder whether i want to go to work tomorrow |
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| 06:08.37 | MrApathyCream | do you have to ponder? i know w/o thinking |
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| 13:44.43 | david_v | hm, does anyone know how to contact Mayhem? via ICQ, AIM, whatever? |
| 13:45.44 | Quol | Sorry Mayhem - no Idea |
| 13:45.47 | Quol | oops |
| 13:45.50 | david_v | hehe |
| 13:45.50 | Quol | sorry David :) |
| 13:46.08 | Quol | how R ya david_v? |
| 13:46.17 | david_v | fine, fine. you? |
| 13:46.24 | Quol | not bad thanks |
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| 14:01.30 | *** join/#bzflag KR (~krrt@cae31-210-009.sc.rr.com) |
| 14:02.53 | KR | UDP question: if the particular server I am trying to join uses a port other than 5154 to connect to, is that the same port I should use for UDP, or is UDP *always* 5154 |
| 14:03.38 | KR | I am trying all kinds of variables to connect to ches's 1.10 CTF server but *always* get kicked for no UDP every time I fire |
| 14:04.11 | KR | yes - UDP is enabled on my client, it is my firewall (on router) that I am trying to bypass |
| 14:04.48 | KR | I have also seen this on other servers besides his... |
| 14:05.25 | Chestal | are you behidn NAT? |
| 14:05.40 | KR | yes |
| 14:06.48 | CIA-1___ | 03chestal * 12bzflag/src/bzfs (bzfs.cxx): rewrite the checks for playerKilled a little |
| 14:06.59 | Chestal | hmm, normally your router should automatically learn to forward both tcpand udp packets |
| 14:07.26 | Chestal | bzfs will use same port for udp and tcp |
| 14:07.41 | Chestal | your client will use an ephemeral port for tcp and udp |
| 14:07.57 | Chestal | your client will send udp packet to server,server replies back to same port |
| 14:08.06 | Chestal | for a typical NAT setup, this will work |
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| 14:09.05 | KR | so if I want to go on a server which uses other than 5154, I won't have to make a separate rule for each server depending on the port? |
| 14:09.26 | Chestal | normally the default NAT learning rules should cover it |
| 14:09.37 | Chestal | other UDP protocols work the same way AFAIK, i.e. DNS |
| 14:09.51 | Chestal | maybe you have to change some config option |
| 14:10.15 | KR | I got a USR WLAN router for xmas - it has dismally hard-to-understand documentation... |
| 14:10.36 | Chestal | mayeb ask an bzflag centrum, chances are good that someone uses a similar router |
| 14:10.39 | michaelh | So there is no "find & replace" routine for strings huh |
| 14:11.03 | Chestal | in std::string? no, there is find and replace as two seperate functions |
| 14:11.03 | KR | I'll try that Ches thx |
| 14:11.10 | Chestal | std::string is too overloaded anyway |
| 14:11.21 | michaelh | since obviously once you replace something the string changes |
| 14:11.46 | Chestal | ehm, yes, that's obvious indeed :-) |
| 14:11.56 | Chestal | unless you replace a substrign with itself |
| 14:14.27 | KR | bbiab |
| 14:14.28 | *** part/#bzflag KR (~krrt@cae31-210-009.sc.rr.com) |
| 14:15.06 | michaelh | I remember the first time I realized that.. took quite a bit to understand why my parser hadn't worked right |
| 14:15.20 | michaelh | then I went 'doh' |
| 14:35.25 | *** join/#bzflag KR (~krrt@cae31-210-009.sc.rr.com) |
| 14:35.33 | KR | ches - u still here? |
| 14:37.05 | Chestal | yes |
| 14:37.17 | KR | ah good - question - |
| 14:37.33 | KR | a couple weeks ago, I could play on your Rabbit server with no problems |
| 14:37.47 | KR | now, as with the CTf server today, I get the no-UDP kick there |
| 14:37.55 | KR | do you have any idea what may have changed? |
| 14:38.18 | KR | I also *couldn't* play on bzg's CTF server then, but now it works fine, no UDP kick... |
| 14:38.27 | Chestal | I am not aware of any changes in the server code which could be related |
| 14:38.42 | Chestal | are you on windows? |
| 14:38.54 | KR | <blech> :) no :) |
| 14:38.59 | Chestal | good :-) |
| 14:39.12 | Chestal | do you have nc (netcat)? |
| 14:39.33 | KR | altho - I have this new USR router, and I will be writing some stinging reviews of it as regards to its Linux UNcompatability |
| 14:39.46 | KR | no I dont have netcat |
| 14:39.51 | KR | that I am aware of |
| 14:40.04 | Chestal | try 'nc', chances are you have |
| 14:40.11 | KR | is it something likely to be on a diustro by default? |
| 14:40.15 | KR | ok will try |
| 14:40.23 | Chestal | which distro is it? |
| 14:40.31 | KR | bash: command not found |
| 14:40.39 | KR | its Debian based - called Mepis |
| 14:40.45 | KR | a newish one |
| 14:41.05 | Chestal | ah, youshould install nc if you can |
| 14:41.12 | Chestal | it's useful |
| 14:41.15 | KR | ok brb, lemme apt |
| 14:41.50 | Chestal | package name is usually 'netcat' |
| 14:42.11 | KR | decided to go kpackage instead so I could get a quick read on it |
| 14:42.29 | Chestal | it's a simple command line tool |
| 14:42.56 | KR | installing |
| 14:43.25 | KR | vers 1.10-23 installed |
| 14:43.37 | KR | what next? :) |
| 14:43.41 | Chestal | ok, now try nc -u 141.99.131.69 55555 |
| 14:43.43 | KR | lol thx for help |
| 14:43.58 | Chestal | then write something |
| 14:44.07 | KR | as su? |
| 14:44.14 | Chestal | normal user |
| 14:44.18 | KR | ok |
| 14:44.27 | Chestal | -u means udp |
| 14:44.55 | Chestal | it will connect the given ip and port and send whatever you type/pipe into it |
| 14:44.55 | KR | sent test test |
| 14:44.59 | Chestal | hmm, recived nothing |
| 14:45.15 | KR | do I need to hit enetr after typing? |
| 14:45.19 | Chestal | yes |
| 14:45.24 | KR | just did |
| 14:45.26 | *** join/#bzflag michaelh (~meeqrg@63-229-212-197.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 14:45.30 | Chestal | hmm, still nothing |
| 14:45.40 | KR | will do 1 more, same text |
| 14:46.21 | KR | sent |
| 14:46.25 | Chestal | nothing |
| 14:46.27 | Chestal | ok, another test |
| 14:46.59 | Chestal | do nc -v ducati.bzflag.org 59777 |
| 14:47.07 | Chestal | this will use tcp |
| 14:47.15 | Chestal | this must work |
| 14:47.39 | learner | eek.. bzfs did NOT like me connecting to it via nc and saying "hello"... |
| 14:47.47 | Chestal | tsts :- |
| 14:47.49 | Chestal | :-) |
| 14:47.51 | learner | tight loop, 100% cpu |
| 14:47.54 | Chestal | uhm |
| 14:48.03 | learner | tcp |
| 14:48.06 | KR | do ro not do? |
| 14:48.11 | KR | s/ro/or |
| 14:48.22 | Chestal | kr: have you tried? |
| 14:48.33 | KR | not yet - was waiting to c if I should |
| 14:48.38 | Chestal | well, yes |
| 14:49.48 | Chestal | the -v is only to make it more verbose |
| 14:50.07 | KR | ducati.unix-ag.org [141.99.42.48] 59777 (?) open |
| 14:50.07 | KR | hi |
| 14:50.07 | KR | too many output retries : Operation not permitted |
| 14:50.17 | Chestal | uhm |
| 14:50.20 | KR | thats what happened |
| 14:50.25 | KR | when I sent hi |
| 14:50.26 | Chestal | nc -v-u ducati.bzflag.org 59777? |
| 14:50.33 | Chestal | -v -u |
| 14:51.03 | KR | yes with space between -v -u |
| 14:51.11 | Chestal | looks liek you cannot _send_ UDP |
| 14:51.19 | Chestal | try a traceroute to ducati.bzflag.org |
| 14:51.26 | Chestal | a normaltraceroute please, not mtr or something |
| 14:54.05 | KR | so far just this: |
| 14:54.08 | KR | traceroute to ducati.unix-ag.org (141.99.42.48), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets |
| 14:54.08 | KR | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:54.08 | KR | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:54.08 | KR | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:54.08 | KR | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:54.09 | KR | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:54.23 | KR | firewall stopping it? |
| 14:54.26 | Chestal | .254 is your router I assume? |
| 14:54.30 | KR | yes |
| 14:54.40 | Chestal | it looks to me like your router/fw is stopping you from _sending_ any UDP packets |
| 14:55.10 | KR | that bastard ;) |
| 14:55.14 | KR | lol |
| 14:55.16 | scanline | or from receiving ICMP? |
| 14:55.41 | Chestal | scanline: possible, but my box didnt revice UDPpackets from him |
| 14:55.47 | Chestal | KR: does any bzflag server work with udp? |
| 14:55.52 | *** join/#bzflag dheckaman (~dheckaman@64-44-153-2.user.uswo.net) |
| 14:56.06 | KR | AFAIK, yes |
| 14:56.13 | KR | some servers I can play on no problem |
| 14:56.19 | Chestal | did you configure somethign specialfor 5154? |
| 14:56.35 | KR | I have and I havent - seems to be the same iether way |
| 14:56.57 | *** join/#bzflag TheDarkSamurai (~3eff4007@server24.greatnet.de) |
| 14:56.58 | KR | as I said, the documentation for the router is not very clear - english written by a chinaperson, maybe |
| 14:57.01 | Chestal | well, try nc -v -u ducati.bzflag.org 5154 |
| 14:57.08 | TheDarkSamurai | hi all |
| 14:57.12 | Chestal | hi TDS |
| 14:57.17 | KR | hi |
| 14:57.24 | *** join/#bzflag david_v (~david_v@c213-200-135-241.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 14:57.32 | TheDarkSamurai | hi davw |
| 14:57.34 | TheDarkSamurai | dave* |
| 14:57.40 | david_v | hey there |
| 14:57.56 | TheDarkSamurai | anyone want to host my map? |
| 14:58.17 | Chestal | kr: hmm, this port works |
| 14:58.25 | Chestal | kr: but it's not on my side, incoming UDPis not filtered here |
| 14:58.38 | TheDarkSamurai | anyone want to host my map? |
| 14:58.38 | Chestal | kr: so, you seem to be unable to send to specific UDP ranges |
| 14:58.41 | TheDarkSamurai | anyone want to host my map? |
| 14:58.47 | KR | did u have Rabbit server on 5154 for a while? |
| 14:58.55 | Chestal | no, never |
| 14:58.55 | TheDarkSamurai | some plz host my map!!!!!!! |
| 14:59.33 | KR | hmm - let me look at Guarddog - see if it has some UDP rule I hadn't seen... |
| 14:59.35 | *** mode/#bzflag [-v TheDarkSamurai] by learner |
| 14:59.35 | TheDarkSamurai | plz? |
| 14:59.52 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v TheDarkSamurai] by learner |
| 15:00.53 | *** mode/#bzflag [-v TheDarkSamurai] by learner |
| 15:01.26 | KR | I put in a rule for UDP on 5154 - and it works - so I must do so for any other UDP's, dependent on each particular bzfs server config then? |
| 15:02.07 | Chestal | I woudl expect the default setting to allow you tosend to any UDP port (and automatically learn toforward in the opposite direction) |
| 15:02.11 | *** part/#bzflag TheDarkSamurai (~3eff4007@server24.greatnet.de) |
| 15:02.27 | KR | Ches - what is the port # for your CTF server? |
| 15:02.36 | Chestal | KR: 59156 at the moment |
| 15:02.42 | KR | OK |
| 15:09.57 | KR | alright - it was the software firewall on my system that was stopping the outgoing UDP |
| 15:10.17 | learner | of course, when I finally attach with a debugger, i can't get it to repeat the out of control bzfs... sheesh |
| 15:10.19 | KR | it is apparently being run as a service on startup - I didn't know that |
| 15:10.55 | *** join/#bzflag orchid (~bzgirl@toronto-hs-64-26-176-100.s-ip.magma.ca) |
| 15:11.00 | KR | but I'll have to configure it for non-default UDP ports as specified by the server admins, ie; 59156 |
| 15:11.08 | Quol | hello orchid |
| 15:11.11 | KR | hi bzgorchid |
| 15:11.16 | orchid | hi |
| 15:11.21 | david_v | hey bzg |
| 15:13.52 | orchid | whats the command in cvs to just up grade the files in the bzflag folder to the newest? |
| 15:14.10 | Pimpinella | cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/bzflag co bzflag |
| 15:14.37 | orchid | so i dont need to login? |
| 15:14.42 | learner | no no |
| 15:14.49 | scanline | that does a fresh checkout.. if you already have a cvs working copy I think you just want 'cvs up' |
| 15:14.49 | Pimpinella | login is: |
| 15:14.50 | learner | just cd bzflag and cvs update -dP |
| 15:14.56 | Pimpinella | cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/bzflag login |
| 15:15.20 | learner | Pimpinella: she has a checkout already |
| 15:16.09 | Pimpinella | did cvs-update only 5 minutes ago with exactly these commands |
| 15:16.24 | scanline | Pimpinella: that's not a cvs update, that redownloads everything |
| 15:16.37 | Pimpinella | not here :) |
| 15:16.52 | scanline | well that's just a feature of your cvs client then |
| 15:16.52 | Pimpinella | took only 10 seconds |
| 15:16.54 | learner | if you have a checkout, you don't need to login |
| 15:17.01 | scanline | just use 'cvs up' |
| 15:17.01 | learner | but it won't hurt |
| 15:17.17 | Pimpinella | but nice to know |
| 15:17.29 | Pimpinella | makes things easier next time |
| 15:17.57 | learner | the -dP options mean to check for new directories and prune empty ones (which it does not do by default) |
| 15:18.38 | scanline | learner: bah, those are things everyone should already have in their .cvsrc :) |
| 15:18.44 | learner | :) |
| 15:18.51 | Pimpinella | lol |
| 15:20.17 | Pimpinella | anyone else encountered problems with xfree86-modules and exec-shield? |
| 15:20.51 | Pimpinella | i wont get addet any fonts |
| 15:21.08 | Pimpinella | a sid -box |
| 15:44.48 | Pimpinella | :) |
| 15:47.25 | CIA-1___ | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/src/bzfs (bzfs.cxx): put an upper bound time limit on how long to spend receiving udp traffic |
| 15:47.57 | Chestal | brlcad: uhm? |
| 15:49.14 | learner | the server was receiving until there is nothing more to read |
| 15:49.40 | Chestal | when? |
| 15:49.42 | learner | this puts a very high upper limit (presently 250ms) on how long it should keep doing that |
| 15:50.04 | learner | so as to not stall the server |
| 15:50.50 | learner | bad/bugged client or DOS attack could stall the server |
| 15:51.24 | Chestal | hmm, ok |
| 15:51.36 | Chestal | I am just a bit careful to not call getCurrent() too often |
| 15:51.49 | Chestal | on the other hand, it's already called for lag measurement on each MsgPlayerUpdate |
| 15:51.58 | Chestal | I fear that on Unix it's quitean expensive operation |
| 15:52.58 | Pimpinella | why? |
| 15:53.21 | learner | the underlying gettimeofday call is around 300usec |
| 15:53.36 | learner | but I'm sure our "wrapping" is more |
| 15:54.09 | Pimpinella | hm |
| 15:56.05 | Chestal | hmm, maybe it;s faster than I think |
| 15:56.21 | Chestal | I thought I remebered that it ook much more time than Iexpected when I was profiling BZDB |
| 15:56.31 | Chestal | s/ook/took/ |
| 15:56.41 | learner | BZDB is slow.. string comparisons |
| 15:56.59 | Chestal | I was referrign to the time measurement only |
| 15:57.13 | Chestal | butI guess I was trying to do very fine grained measurement |
| 15:57.20 | Chestal | gettimeofday is not suitable for profiling |
| 15:57.54 | Chestal | ok, on my PIII-500 it takes about 1us |
| 15:58.14 | Chestal | that's acceptable |
| 15:58.24 | Pimpinella | exit |
| 15:59.12 | learner | 1us? |
| 15:59.27 | Chestal | microsecond |
| 15:59.28 | learner | I'd believe 1ms |
| 15:59.33 | Chestal | nooo |
| 15:59.33 | learner | ah, heh |
| 15:59.35 | Chestal | that would be way too slow |
| 15:59.43 | Chestal | 1us is still slow |
| 15:59.43 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@63.147.94.145) |
| 16:00.13 | Chestal | I think I remember that the windows functions use some CPU timers? |
| 16:00.18 | Chestal | guess that will be _much_ faster |
| 16:00.53 | learner | ah, i didn't mean usec -- i meant cycles |
| 16:01.45 | Chestal | my athlon-700 is almost twice as fast |
| 16:01.58 | Chestal | let me test on poor old ducati |
| 16:02.09 | learner | are you testing rate or time? |
| 16:02.29 | Chestal | I am measuring the time for 100,000 gettimeofday |
| 16:02.36 | Chestal | and it's 99ms on my P500 |
| 16:02.47 | Chestal | 315ms on ducati |
| 16:03.00 | learner | ah |
| 16:03.00 | Chestal | so, about 3us/call |
| 16:03.18 | learner | I'm testing getCurrent() |
| 16:03.38 | Chestal | I don't think it does much more than call gettimeofday |
| 16:04.15 | Chestal | I would assume the overhead to be negligible |
| 16:04.47 | learner | I wouldn't :) |
| 16:05.07 | learner | there's the vnode lookup, and a bunch of struct entries |
| 16:05.47 | Chestal | vnode? |
| 16:05.48 | learner | hrm.. 10 million iterations might have been a bit too much.. |
| 16:06.27 | learner | oh, right.. no vnode for getCurrent |
| 16:06.52 | learner | at least one would hope that it doesn't have to look it up, since it's static |
| 16:07.19 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~JeffM@208.48.199.220) |
| 16:07.19 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 16:07.40 | Chestal | vnode as in vtable? |
| 16:07.47 | learner | yes |
| 16:07.49 | Chestal | no virtual dispatch in that class |
| 16:08.04 | Chestal | most can be inlined, ok, getcurrent() probably cannot |
| 16:08.42 | Chestal | but to measure it better than to guess, of course |
| 16:09.22 | Chestal | 0.111s for 100,000 TimeKeeper stop=TimeKeeper::getCurrent() |
| 16:09.33 | Chestal | so, about 10% overhead here |
| 16:11.15 | learner | 4.4s for 10,000,000 here (getCurrent() - time > value check inside loop) |
| 16:11.30 | Chestal | I'd get 11.1s |
| 16:11.41 | Chestal | what CPU? |
| 16:11.50 | learner | 500 G4 |
| 16:12.13 | Chestal | that's supposed to be significantly faster than a PIII-500 I assume? |
| 16:12.21 | learner | yes |
| 16:12.22 | Chestal | but then it's a different architecture and OS, too |
| 16:12.50 | Chestal | so I guess the worst case is about 1-5us per call on slow machines |
| 16:13.21 | learner | negligible until you start calling it in a tight loop |
| 16:13.44 | Patlabor221 | so does 1.10.2 break protocoll? |
| 16:13.52 | learner | no |
| 16:14.09 | Patlabor221 | what about the GM bug? |
| 16:14.10 | Chestal | 1.10.4 won't neither |
| 16:14.25 | Chestal | well, that's a small problem of course |
| 16:14.28 | Patlabor221 | would you not want to bump it just to make it so they can't use 1.10 and efectivly cheat? |
| 16:14.37 | Patlabor221 | of often did it happen? |
| 16:14.46 | Chestal | it only affects player slot 0 |
| 16:14.50 | Patlabor221 | ahh |
| 16:14.53 | learner | if player 0 happens to be 1.10.0, they won't be able to lock on them |
| 16:14.53 | Patlabor221 | not too bad then |
| 16:14.57 | Chestal | so it's merely random to the usual player |
| 16:22.28 | Patlabor221 | has there been anyt thought to posting a set of 1.10.3 "betas" out there so it gets some good testing? |
| 16:22.33 | Patlabor221 | like posting it on SF? |
| 16:22.59 | Chestal | not that I know of |
| 16:23.41 | Patlabor221 | I would think it would be a good idea, and the people would like it. |
| 16:23.47 | Chestal | it would be most important to get the servers to upgrade this timeI think |
| 16:23.55 | Patlabor221 | and it seems that if it's on SF, they download it |
| 16:24.00 | Patlabor221 | yeah that would be important |
| 16:24.14 | Patlabor221 | and puting it on SF seems to be a way to get it out to everyone |
| 16:24.25 | Patlabor221 | they don't seem to mind repeated updates from SF |
| 16:24.45 | Chestal | did we do that for 1.10.2? |
| 16:24.56 | Chestal | we could as well simply say it's another bug fix release 1.10.4 already |
| 16:25.04 | Patlabor221 | it's on SF, but we did not post a 1.10.1 for them to try first |
| 16:25.10 | Chestal | then do a 1.10.6 if enough problems persist |
| 16:25.39 | Patlabor221 | sure, but that seems rushing, yo don't know if anything else was busted |
| 16:25.40 | Chestal | of course it always has been the tradition of bzflag to wait some months between releases :-) |
| 16:25.43 | learner | talking with mac last night, it's probably a good time to fork off a maintenance branch for 1.10 so that 1.11 can begin |
| 16:25.59 | Chestal | uh, forking |
| 16:26.03 | Chestal | we never really had that before |
| 16:26.05 | Patlabor221 | are you gonna ask the man Learner? |
| 16:26.14 | Patlabor221 | about what we talked about the other night? |
| 16:26.22 | Chestal | what would be the first protocol breakign changes you have in mind? |
| 16:26.58 | learner | Chestal: it has been done before, though the branches were short lived |
| 16:27.00 | Chestal | if we can we should fix all of the known BUGS or agree to make them non-BUGS soon |
| 16:27.00 | Patlabor221 | ohh and what was decided for the rabbit? |
| 16:27.16 | Patlabor221 | me and fiber had a good discussion on what it boils down too |
| 16:27.25 | Chestal | I haven't tried the new rabbit selection |
| 16:27.26 | learner | Patlabor221: haven't decided, though I presently have no plans to -- feel free to bring it up if you like |
| 16:27.28 | Patlabor221 | if nothing was decided on the rabbit I was gonna post it to the SF dev list |
| 16:27.30 | Chestal | not sure the BUG in there still applies |
| 16:27.49 | Patlabor221 | does rabbit still use the base BZ score in it's calculations? |
| 16:28.04 | Chestal | yes,it basically is still: best player will be rabbit |
| 16:28.10 | learner | last I heard about rabbit is that there will be selectable styles that you can pick from |
| 16:28.23 | Chestal | it's just a different formula which tries to get rid of some anomalies |
| 16:28.28 | Patlabor221 | is that the point of the rabbit game? to make the best player allways be the rabbit? |
| 16:28.42 | Chestal | the point is to have fun |
| 16:28.45 | learner | one is random, another is the shooter (reverse tag), another is some weighted "best player" like now, etc |
| 16:28.46 | Chestal | not sure what the best rule is |
| 16:29.01 | Chestal | being the rabbit is hard when a couple of good palyers are around |
| 16:29.09 | Chestal | so a newbie wouldn't have much fun being the rabbit |
| 16:29.13 | sussudio | hm titan ae |
| 16:29.13 | Patlabor221 | if the point of the game play is to be the rabbit, then score shoudl be based on time as rabit |
| 16:29.15 | Chestal | usually you die within 3s or so |
| 16:29.23 | Patlabor221 | and he who kills the rabbit is the rabbit |
| 16:29.28 | Patlabor221 | if the point is to hunt |
| 16:29.32 | Chestal | I always had the thought of a rabbit flag |
| 16:29.33 | Patlabor221 | then the rabbit should be random |
| 16:29.38 | Patlabor221 | that is the other method |
| 16:29.41 | Patlabor221 | make it a flag |
| 16:29.48 | Patlabor221 | when you have it you are rabiit |
| 16:29.51 | Chestal | and in 1.11 we should make hunters a team, not rogues |
| 16:29.54 | Chestal | peopel simply don't get it |
| 16:30.00 | Chestal | and it would simplify the code, too -) |
| 16:30.01 | Patlabor221 | yeah make em red |
| 16:30.05 | Patlabor221 | or turn off team kills |
| 16:30.09 | learner | i have the start of such a patch (TeamHunter) |
| 16:30.15 | learner | waiting for 1.11 |
| 16:30.15 | Patlabor221 | since all it does is mess up the rabbit calc |
| 16:30.38 | Patlabor221 | are the hunters suposed to work together? |
| 16:30.48 | Chestal | scorign based on time and shooter becomes rabbit seems primising |
| 16:30.50 | Patlabor221 | and is there any benifit to them doing so? |
| 16:30.52 | learner | depends on the style, imo |
| 16:31.08 | Patlabor221 | chestal, it's how most other games do this mod type |
| 16:31.08 | Chestal | as I see it right now, hunters are not really friends |
| 16:31.20 | Patlabor221 | no they are not, they all want to get the rabbit |
| 16:31.24 | Chestal | so there can be things liek stealing a flag from a fellow hunter etc. |
| 16:31.37 | Patlabor221 | so killing the person who is about to kill the rabbit would be benifical |
| 16:32.00 | Chestal | that should still be a teamkill IMHO |
| 16:32.10 | bryjen | if that's how you want it |
| 16:32.11 | Patlabor221 | you could just turn off team kills and make the shot go thru them |
| 16:32.30 | Patlabor221 | should I write this all up and post it so a consensus can be reached? |
| 16:32.32 | Chestal | I thinkit's good that hunters have to be careful not to shoot each other |
| 16:32.40 | Patlabor221 | ok, then make them a team |
| 16:32.41 | bryjen | Chestal: agreed |
| 16:32.42 | Patlabor221 | the red one |
| 16:32.53 | Chestal | yes, simply usign the red team would be ok to me |
| 16:33.02 | Chestal | IMHO it's too much hassle to introduce a new team for that |
| 16:33.05 | Patlabor221 | hunter jackets and all that :) |
| 16:33.16 | Patlabor221 | team: flanel :) |
| 16:33.25 | bryjen | its one thing to copy other games "rabbit" or "tag" styles, or we could be making up our own |
| 16:33.42 | bryjen | Patlabor221: orange saftey vests |
| 16:33.47 | bryjen | :) |
| 16:33.55 | Patlabor221 | well there are some notions on how things shoudl play, people do play other games |
| 16:34.21 | Patlabor221 | if you want to keep it as it is, at least put up a message that each time your score changes, how many more kills you need to become the rabit or something |
| 16:34.26 | Patlabor221 | at least so they know |
| 16:34.55 | Patlabor221 | and call it like, rise of the king or something |
| 16:35.25 | Patlabor221 | "european middle ages goverment" game style :) |
| 16:36.09 | Patlabor221 | but like I say, should I post all these ideas and points in a mailing list post? |
| 16:36.18 | Chestal | cannot hurt :-) |
| 16:36.35 | Patlabor221 | I think 1.10.4 can not go untill this is resolved |
| 16:36.42 | Chestal | the MLs are pathologically underused anyway |
| 16:36.48 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 16:36.59 | Patlabor221 | but it's the only thing that tim reads |
| 16:37.18 | Chestal | it's onlypossible to get some possible rabbit changes into 1.10.4, some require a protocol breakign release |
| 16:37.29 | Patlabor221 | yeah, posibly |
| 16:37.35 | *** join/#bzflag michaelh (~meeqrg@63-229-212-197.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 16:37.36 | Patlabor221 | again, is that a bad thing? |
| 16:37.40 | michaelh | * [10053] Software caused connection abort |
| 16:37.42 | michaelh | what is that? |
| 16:37.58 | Patlabor221 | your software caused something to abort a connection |
| 16:38.28 | michaelh | I keep getting booted off the IRC server |
| 16:38.33 | Chestal | we are not on http://www.gmane.org/ |
| 16:38.45 | michaelh | after I'm idle for long enough |
| 16:39.19 | Patlabor221 | your IRC is droping the connection |
| 16:39.30 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@proxyle02.ext.ti.com) |
| 16:39.38 | Patlabor221 | get Xchat it sucks less |
| 16:39.44 | michaelh | heh |
| 16:39.55 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:40.14 | Patlabor221 | ok I'm gonna type up the rabbit mail right now then |
| 16:40.22 | michaelh | I noticed using a string stream, there's gibberish in it at first |
| 16:40.30 | michaelh | do I have to blank it first somehow? |
| 16:40.40 | Chestal | stringstream or deprecated strstream? |
| 16:40.50 | michaelh | uh oh |
| 16:41.13 | michaelh | #include <strstream> |
| 16:41.35 | Chestal | you want #include <sstream> and then use std::stringstream, or maybe istringstream/ostringstream |
| 16:41.43 | Chestal | unless you have a very good reason to use the old ones :-) |
| 16:43.06 | michaelh | no more gibberish |
| 16:43.08 | michaelh | yaaaay |
| 16:43.49 | Chestal | sf doesn't provide a NNTP gateway to its mailing lists or something, does it? |
| 16:47.29 | Chestal | ~bzflist |
| 17:04.45 | Patlabor221 | ok mail is done, spell checking now |
| 17:05.57 | Patlabor221 | sent |
| 17:06.20 | Patlabor221 | should I post it on BZBB as well? |
| 17:06.27 | Patlabor221 | in the dev discussion? |
| 17:10.24 | Patlabor221 | anyone? |
| 17:17.51 | Chestal | that was a fun game against some newsbies :-) |
| 17:17.57 | Chestal | BZBB? well, yes, why not |
| 17:19.29 | Patlabor221 | I posted there |
| 17:19.33 | Patlabor221 | http://bzbb.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?t=1309 |
| 17:20.22 | bryjen | ~seen stibnite |
| 17:20.26 | | stibnite <is@aau.cx> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 16d 35m 29s ago, saying: 'works great, thx KTL '. |
| 17:26.13 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-120-217.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 17:35.07 | stibnite_ | I've been avoiding you all |
| 17:35.14 | stibnite_ | (not really) |
| 17:36.37 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@proxyle02.ext.ti.com) |
| 17:36.59 | stibnite | is something awry? Its unusual that multiple individuals should take interest in my whereabouts |
| 17:37.11 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 17:37.37 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@proxyle02.ext.ti.com) |
| 17:38.08 | Patlabor221 | bryjen, is multiple people? |
| 17:38.11 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 17:38.21 | stibnite | another person, in pm |
| 17:38.26 | Patlabor221 | ahh |
| 17:38.36 | Patlabor221 | maybe your just popular today :) |
| 17:38.44 | stibnite | hehe |
| 17:39.34 | Patlabor221 | bloddy hell, sf won't accept our SMTP |
| 17:40.39 | shkoo | bummer. |
| 17:41.13 | shkoo | i replied on bzbb anyways. :) |
| 17:42.46 | Patlabor221 | and I replied to your repply :) |
| 17:43.04 | Chestal | Patlabor: did it say why? |
| 17:43.11 | Patlabor221 | does server do rabbit bestwoement now? |
| 17:43.42 | Chestal | server decides who is rabbit, client can resign rabbitness by pausing, though |
| 17:43.56 | Patlabor221 | cus my mailserver is lame |
| 17:44.18 | Patlabor221 | you mean a client can send a packet that can make a specific user a rabbit!?!?! |
| 17:44.38 | Patlabor221 | or just an "i paused" message that tells the server to compute a new rabbit? |
| 17:44.58 | Chestal | no, it can only say "I don't want to be rabbit anymore" |
| 17:45.03 | Patlabor221 | ok |
| 17:45.10 | Patlabor221 | and server does score right? |
| 17:45.16 | Patlabor221 | that changed in g2 IIRC |
| 17:45.29 | Chestal | yes,allscoring is in server,except for mutual scoring which is in client only |
| 17:45.36 | Patlabor221 | mutual? |
| 17:46.01 | Patlabor221 | so making it time based from the server, what breaks protcoll then? |
| 17:46.02 | CIA-1___ | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/ (BUGS): flag was dropped while capturing screenshot, able to shoot from within building |
| 17:46.15 | Patlabor221 | since it's the same messages that are sent now |
| 17:46.23 | Chestal | Patlabor: how often I killed aspecific player, was killed by him |
| 17:46.24 | Patlabor221 | tho yeah old lcients would not like them |
| 17:46.37 | Patlabor221 | ok for rabbit that dosn't matter |
| 17:46.52 | Patlabor221 | it soulds like it would work then |
| 17:46.53 | Chestal | changing to time-based scoring could probably work |
| 17:47.01 | Chestal | changign the team to red probably not |
| 17:47.03 | Patlabor221 | thats the best mode of rabbit in my option |
| 17:47.15 | Patlabor221 | then break it |
| 17:47.19 | Patlabor221 | people will update |
| 17:47.25 | Patlabor221 | 1.10 showed they would |
| 17:48.27 | learner | we can just slide it in 1.11 once that gets started |
| 17:48.55 | Patlabor221 | ok so then rabbit mode is kinda pointless till then |
| 17:49.07 | Patlabor221 | are you going to sugest that people not run the servers? |
| 17:49.07 | learner | nah, it's still fun |
| 17:49.12 | Chestal | it's fun as it is, only can be improved |
| 17:49.16 | Patlabor221 | but your gonna get people used to this way |
| 17:49.20 | Patlabor221 | then change it on them |
| 17:49.42 | Chestal | well, only way to tell which really worksis to implement it and let peopel play on it |
| 17:49.50 | learner | i think we should be able to do rabbit a variety of ways |
| 17:49.58 | Chestal | orsomeone write a bzflag simulator :-) |
| 17:50.11 | Patlabor221 | or do playtesting |
| 17:50.18 | learner | then the more popular way will sort itself out instead of being dictated |
| 17:50.24 | Chestal | yes, but playtesting in 1.9 didn't really work out |
| 17:50.37 | Chestal | you need several peopel who play on a regular basis |
| 17:51.20 | Patlabor221 | that is why I sugest using SF as a public beta site for testing |
| 17:51.32 | learner | TimRiker: would you object to tagging off a 1.10 maintenance line and get started with 1.11 now? |
| 17:51.37 | Patlabor221 | the playtesting didn't work cus playtesting is bad, it didn't work cus none of the players knew about it. |
| 17:51.58 | Chestal | we had 2 or 3 beta releases Ithink |
| 17:52.08 | Chestal | but the number of players using them was too low |
| 17:52.12 | Patlabor221 | none were posted on SF were they? |
| 17:52.17 | Patlabor221 | they were all posted on bzbb |
| 17:52.26 | Patlabor221 | and that gets like 30 people that's it |
| 17:52.26 | Chestal | not sure where the binaries were hosted |
| 17:52.34 | Patlabor221 | they were hosted by Nidhoggr |
| 17:52.40 | Patlabor221 | people read the SF page |
| 17:52.46 | Patlabor221 | they see it as "ofical" |
| 17:52.52 | bryjen | stibnite: hashmark's player counts and team scores are foobar due to bug in 1.10.0. You may want to upgrade to 1.10.2 |
| 17:52.56 | learner | sense of alpha/beta/release is supposed to be implicit in the numbering method now instead of explicit in the name |
| 17:53.13 | Chestal | stibnite: or betetr yet to current CVS if you can |
| 17:53.20 | Patlabor221 | yes but people don' know that, they need to be told |
| 17:53.59 | Patlabor221 | if you updated duc to 1.10.3 and said "get beta from sf" you would have a ton of people download a 1.10.3 beta |
| 17:54.01 | learner | that they probably do |
| 17:54.12 | Patlabor221 | and when they found problems they would not complain, they would report |
| 17:54.19 | Chestal | my 1.10 ducati server is not really popular yet |
| 17:54.24 | Chestal | (and I have stopped my 1.7 one) |
| 17:54.36 | learner | ~bzflist17 |
| 17:54.59 | learner | they are slowly getting weened off :) |
| 17:55.28 | Patlabor221 | well yeah it takes them time, since they haven't had an update in 60 mothhs |
| 17:55.29 | learner | anyone have a clue as to why hashmark's number are always skewed? |
| 17:55.35 | Patlabor221 | if you keep on them, they will update a lot more |
| 17:55.49 | learner | who runs hashmark? |
| 17:55.57 | Chestal | IMHO we need a stable version now and then which stays around for some time |
| 17:56.06 | Patlabor221 | ahh well I would at least recomend making it time based for 1.10.4 |
| 17:56.10 | Chestal | it's needed for league / tournament play among others |
| 17:56.14 | *** join/#bzflag Tux889 (Tux889@mctn1-7783.nb.aliant.net) |
| 17:56.15 | Chestal | 1.10 isn't quite there |
| 17:56.25 | Patlabor221 | yes it is, the only way to get stable is with testing and playing tho |
| 17:56.41 | TimRiker | "time based" ? |
| 17:56.50 | stibnite | ok, I'll upgrade, thanks. |
| 17:56.56 | Chestal | TimRiker: scoring in rabbit mode, you get 1 point for every n seconds you are the rabbit |
| 17:57.11 | bryjen | learner: hashmark is stibnite |
| 17:57.20 | Chestal | this needs some morethought, though |
| 17:57.21 | Patlabor221 | timriker: http://bzbb.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?t=1309 |
| 17:57.28 | Patlabor221 | I'm tring to get it mailed to the SF mail list |
| 17:57.31 | Chestal | would it be counted as a win? |
| 17:57.31 | Patlabor221 | but it's being a bastard |
| 17:57.35 | TimRiker | learner: I'd prefer we stick with the existing protocol for a while and work on things that don't require client/server updates. |
| 17:57.36 | Chestal | are there any losses, too? |
| 17:57.44 | Patlabor221 | set a win limit |
| 17:57.50 | Patlabor221 | first to get to 100 or so |
| 17:57.55 | Patlabor221 | then they win |
| 17:58.07 | Patlabor221 | wtf: |
| 17:58.07 | Chestal | win limit can be set already |
| 17:58.08 | Patlabor221 | Unable to deliver to destination domain |
| 17:58.08 | Patlabor221 | Sent: HELO new-machine |
| 17:58.08 | Patlabor221 | Received: 550 Don't like your HELO/EHLO. Hostname must contain a dot. |
| 17:58.17 | Patlabor221 | then there should be no problem |
| 17:58.30 | Chestal | just wondering whether any kills shoudl affect score |
| 17:58.31 | Patlabor221 | hmm I need to go beat the server |
| 17:58.40 | learner | TimRiker: could that perhaps mean that 1.12 will not break protocol or are we going to keep pushing the 1.10 line? |
| 17:58.44 | Patlabor221 | I would say no, because that is not the point of the game |
| 17:58.50 | Patlabor221 | the point is to be rabbit |
| 17:59.01 | Patlabor221 | the kills are just ancilary stats |
| 17:59.30 | Patlabor221 | bzflag is suposed to be simple, don't try to put too much into any one game mode |
| 17:59.33 | Chestal | myfocus right now is on making 1.10 at least as stable as 1.7 was |
| 17:59.37 | learner | that's sort of like a time-based king of the hill |
| 17:59.39 | Chestal | I want everyone to use it |
| 17:59.44 | Chestal | some enhancements can go in of course |
| 17:59.57 | Patlabor221 | yes most KOTH implementations are time based |
| 18:00.03 | Chestal | if we can make compatible changes to rabbit,we can get them in |
| 18:00.04 | Patlabor221 | I have never seen kill based KOTH |
| 18:00.22 | TimRiker | "get rid of the GM bug" ? |
| 18:00.24 | learner | i didn't see this as koth any more, although it did start that way -- i like both ways |
| 18:00.41 | Patlabor221 | in fact in most games the only kill based scoreing system is for deathmatch |
| 18:00.48 | *** join/#bzflag captain_proton (~blardebla@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 18:00.49 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o captain_proton] by ChanServ |
| 18:00.58 | Patlabor221 | tim, the GM can't kill you think, breaking would not let that old client connect, tho it's a mintor thing |
| 18:01.40 | Patlabor221 | in CTF tanks killed is really just a way to compare 2 players, not compare teams, since it's suposed to be based on captures |
| 18:01.45 | TimRiker | "the GM can't kill you think" huh? |
| 18:02.07 | bryjen | there was a "GM won't lock onto Player id 0", was there a "GM doesn't kill someone" bug also? |
| 18:02.27 | bryjen | you could still kill player id 0 |
| 18:03.09 | learner | Tim: s/you think/your tank/ |
| 18:03.12 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-224-242.dialup.innercite.com) |
| 18:03.34 | TimRiker | clients need to send the version string to the server on connect and then have an admin option to drop arbitrary client versions with a message. |
| 18:04.14 | TimRiker | so admins would have the option of not supporting 1.10.0 cleints without us changing the net protocol. |
| 18:04.25 | TimRiker | er clients. |
| 18:04.33 | TimRiker | thoughts? |
| 18:04.55 | david_v | that's what i thought actually, heh |
| 18:04.59 | Chestal | hmm, I could ban windows clients ;-) |
| 18:05.02 | david_v | lol |
| 18:05.08 | TimRiker | or any other platform. ;-) |
| 18:05.09 | david_v | you have my support Ches ;) |
| 18:05.20 | learner | that sounds reasonable -- configured server-side |
| 18:05.32 | Chestal | but, yes,I think it's a good idea tolet the server know client versions |
| 18:05.37 | Chestal | and then get rid of thet CLIENTQUERY hack |
| 18:05.45 | david_v | hehe |
| 18:06.14 | learner | indeed |
| 18:06.35 | david_v | what about third party clients? |
| 18:06.49 | david_v | some of them are cheat clients, some are not... what about checks on that? |
| 18:07.04 | david_v | on the other hand cheat clients don't imply cheating... |
| 18:07.37 | DTRemenak | sry for interrupting, but does anyone have any idea why compiling BZFlag on MingW32 gives "../../src/bzflag/stars.cxx:18: syntax error before `[' token" |
| 18:08.32 | bryjen | if there's a standard version string form, you could just check part of it, and 3rd party clients leave that part alone |
| 18:08.34 | Chestal | hmm, either it doesn't liek GLfloat or maybe 'stars' was somewhere #defined? |
| 18:08.55 | DTRemenak | hm |
| 18:08.56 | Patlabor221 | could not the autoteam mechanism be used to change the hunters team? |
| 18:09.04 | TimRiker | david_v: make it a regex. it's not enforceable anyway, anyone can present anything. it's just an attempt at encouraging upgrades. |
| 18:09.18 | Chestal | DTR: tofind the reason you could try to chaneg the type to float and the name to stars2, it willbarf later then,of course |
| 18:09.20 | bryjen | 1.10.3.20040101-MAINTENANCE-linux-gnu-bryjen would be based on 1.10.3.20040101 and that's what you'd be looking for |
| 18:09.45 | Chestal | Patlabor2: I fear that there are some assumption in the client code, that when you have been rabbit and die you become rogue |
| 18:09.53 | Chestal | I am not 100% sure, though |
| 18:09.58 | learner | TimRiker: the question that's come up is where to put the "significant" new features that do not break protocol -- go ahead and add them to 1.10 (which would seem bad, as they potentially cause more bugs) or fork off 1.10 maintenance so that both can occur without messing with each other (i.e. patches to 1.10 can continue, as can the start of (breaking or non-breaking) 1.11 work) |
| 18:10.13 | Patlabor221 | someone should probably get 100% on that part of the code then |
| 18:10.27 | Patlabor221 | yay, the sucker sent to SF finaly |
| 18:10.50 | DTRemenak | hm, works as a float |
| 18:10.54 | Chestal | learner: I'd say, whoever wants to work on some protocol breaking feature should propose that first, so we can decide whether it is worthwhile to fork |
| 18:11.01 | TimRiker | learner: don't break the code. if you have a large new feature that's in progress, put in in as a SF patch. |
| 18:11.42 | learner | I'm referring to changes that don't break the code, and are generally too large as a patch |
| 18:11.42 | Patlabor221 | patches are hard to colaborate on |
| 18:11.54 | Chestal | hmm |
| 18:11.56 | learner | and, yes, that will generally require collaboration |
| 18:11.57 | TimRiker | need to add a users database to the list server and do central authentication soon. |
| 18:12.02 | shkoo | chestal: yes, client assumes non-rabbits are rogue. i tried making all non-rabbits red in the server and the client still made them rogue after the rabbit changed. |
| 18:12.08 | Chestal | why does stars.cxx onlyinclude gl.h if defined apple? |
| 18:12.24 | DTRemenak | good question. |
| 18:12.32 | Chestal | and why does it workat all? |
| 18:12.33 | TimRiker | learner: leave them on the wish list for the moment or implement them incrementally in ways that do not break existing code. |
| 18:12.34 | DTRemenak | appears to work on other platforms tho |
| 18:13.01 | learner | they can be completely implemented without breaking the code |
| 18:13.35 | learner | but that's going against what was previously said how the version numbers were going to be managed |
| 18:13.37 | Patlabor221 | so we have to wait for a while to rip stuff a new one? |
| 18:13.37 | DTRemenak | works as GLfloat if GL/gl.h is included |
| 18:13.48 | TimRiker | fine. new features are welcome if they do not break the code (which include changing the network protocol) |
| 18:13.49 | Chestal | ah, stars.cxx isincluded into BackgroundRenderer.cxx, yuck |
| 18:14.03 | bryjen | ugh. |
| 18:14.14 | TimRiker | learner: well. it's just a definition of "stable" and maintainance. |
| 18:14.44 | TimRiker | when we are "mostly" working on big new things and still not breaking the net protocol, then we will move to 1.11 |
| 18:15.11 | learner | so is that changing? it was my impression that 1.10.x is a maintenance line, even numbers are stable odd are not |
| 18:15.25 | TimRiker | right now it feels to me like we are mostly doing 1.10 bug fixing with a few new features that don't break existing clients thrown in for good measure. |
| 18:15.50 | Patlabor221 | there are some who wish to begin work on future things |
| 18:15.53 | learner | ah, ok, so then basically we should wait on these new features, then, still imo |
| 18:15.57 | Patlabor221 | multitask and all that |
| 18:15.58 | DTRemenak | so, do I add an include GL/gl.h because it's right, or add it inside an ifdef because it works anyway? |
| 18:16.03 | TimRiker | so that feels to me like "maintainance" and not full out "development". other thoughts? |
| 18:16.25 | Patlabor221 | you can't have difrent people doing both? |
| 18:16.43 | TimRiker | DTRemenak: I'd like to know why it works on other non mac platforms. |
| 18:16.44 | Chestal | forking has the danger that two code branhces must be maintained |
| 18:16.50 | Chestal | depending on the changes that can be a lot of work |
| 18:16.59 | TimRiker | Patlabor221: we can, yes. but the overhead of branching in CVS is large. |
| 18:17.04 | Patlabor221 | but it has the advantage that people can work on new stuff at the same time |
| 18:17.07 | DTRemenak | I dunno why... |
| 18:17.10 | learner | that danger should only exist if new development is on a branch |
| 18:17.28 | Chestal | TimRiker: it works because stars.cxx is includes intoBackgroudnRenderer.cxx. The question is why it includes common.h and why mac needs toinclude gl.h (again) |
| 18:17.32 | learner | new development should be on head, bug fixes and minor improvements to a branch |
| 18:17.42 | TimRiker | how's this? if folks want to work on a new feature together, create a branch for it. when it's "ready" we fold it in a the branch dies. |
| 18:17.46 | Patlabor221 | then I'll continue in my test app untill such time as new code is welcome |
| 18:17.47 | learner | it's trivial to merge that kind of branch back into a head |
| 18:17.47 | DTRemenak | Mac /and MingW/ |
| 18:17.58 | Chestal | learner: but those bug fixes andminor improvements wouldprobably have to go into HEAD,too |
| 18:18.17 | Chestal | learner: and some might have tobe done twice, because some code changed which is realetd to the bug/feature |
| 18:18.25 | DTRemenak | is common.h really needed in stars? |
| 18:18.28 | TimRiker | learner: it's trivial once, yes. but then it's a mess later, |
| 18:18.32 | learner | Chestal: indeed, you merge the branch back to head -- that's usually not any real work |
| 18:18.49 | Chestal | DTR: no |
| 18:19.00 | DTRemenak | ok, so I'll take it out and add GL/gl.h |
| 18:19.01 | learner | it can be very hard to merge a large diff branch back into head |
| 18:19.08 | TimRiker | DTRemenak: sounds good. |
| 18:19.21 | Chestal | DTR: please investigate, why it is not already included (indirectly?) via backgroundrenderer.cxx |
| 18:19.28 | learner | this is what cvs docs even recommend |
| 18:19.55 | DTRemenak | indirect includes confuse me |
| 18:19.57 | Chestal | I have the impression, that the amount of changes to 1.10 that will be done is right now still too big to branch yet |
| 18:20.16 | Chestal | maybe when most BUGS are gone and we have 1.10.4/.6 |
| 18:20.39 | Chestal | the most difficult bugs seem to be gl ones |
| 18:20.50 | Chestal | I guess noone reallyunderstand the rendering code ;-) |
| 18:21.03 | Chestal | and then there are probably bugs in the gl libs,too :-( |
| 18:21.14 | Patlabor221 | nope, the stat stuff is too funky for me to comprehend |
| 18:21.20 | Patlabor221 | I just want to rip it all out |
| 18:21.29 | learner | that and others are simply getting exhausted/bored only doing bug fixes |
| 18:21.44 | Chestal | theer is some 1.10 work which arenot bug fixes |
| 18:21.50 | Chestal | spawning, thoguhts about the rabbit changes |
| 18:21.58 | Chestal | and small improvements |
| 18:21.59 | Patlabor221 | I am trying to create new classes that do all the same things that the BZflag rendere does, so that it can just be reimplemented |
| 18:22.01 | DTRemenak | making other compilers work :) |
| 18:23.06 | learner | Chestal: what do you mean regarding "still to big to branch yet"? |
| 18:23.49 | Chestal | learner: when we can see that there will only be small code changes to get rid of some small bugs, than it's no problem to branch, because the small patches can then easily be applied to 1.10 and 1.11 |
| 18:24.10 | Chestal | IMHO we are close to a good 1.10, but not quite there |
| 18:24.18 | learner | ok |
| 18:24.34 | learner | then just toss me a bone when you think we've gotten there ;) |
| 18:24.47 | Chestal | I fear that once we have a 1.11 branch with cool new features, noone will be motivated to fix the bugs anymore |
| 18:25.01 | learner | you will :) |
| 18:25.10 | Chestal | players hate bugs |
| 18:25.12 | Patlabor221 | MAC will |
| 18:25.44 | Chestal | the most critical bug rightnow is probably the alt-tab problem on windows |
| 18:25.50 | Chestal | not sure if everyone has it |
| 18:26.00 | Chestal | my GL problems are not 100% reproducible either |
| 18:26.04 | Chestal | but they were not in 1.7 |
| 18:26.12 | Patlabor221 | it depeneds on what GL implemation you have |
| 18:26.17 | learner | i'll still fix bugs too, but it's more a matter of where to put new dev since it's rather tiresome to only bug-hunt and chikitweak for weeks with to little end |
| 18:26.20 | Patlabor221 | sometimes it takes longer to get to |
| 18:26.26 | Chestal | I have xlibmesa, which 99% of Linux users are prolly using |
| 18:26.43 | Chestal | of course depending on your hardware, some part of the work is done in a hw specific driver |
| 18:26.47 | Patlabor221 | cept those with nvidia cards |
| 18:26.50 | Patlabor221 | they get one from nvida |
| 18:26.56 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 18:27.14 | Chestal | do they also use their own gl lib? |
| 18:27.16 | Patlabor221 | Chestal, do you want a new video card? |
| 18:27.21 | Patlabor221 | no, not the lib |
| 18:27.26 | Patlabor221 | just the backend implemation |
| 18:28.07 | Chestal | soemof the bugs I have happen both with software rendering and hardware rendering for me |
| 18:28.07 | learner | put new dev to branch or put maintenance to branch -- I'd vie for the latter as that is what is usually done (we could have immediately branched 1.10 upon release even -- just not enough people in here seem to be experienced with cvs conventions) |
| 18:28.38 | Chestal | BZDB needs some work, too |
| 18:28.41 | Chestal | conceptual work |
| 18:28.59 | Chestal | it works ok now, but only because the bugs donot show |
| 18:29.04 | Chestal | (wrong caching etc.) |
| 18:29.12 | learner | changes have already been planned, they are spread out over task items |
| 18:29.12 | DTRemenak | I can make the alt-tab problem on windows go away...but the Wrong Way |
| 18:29.28 | Patlabor221 | TimRiker, are you ok with eventualy moving to targeting hardware openGL instead of being very software centric? I'm not saying don't support software, but just be optimised for at least some level of hardware? |
| 18:29.34 | TimRiker | has anyone tried to get valgrind or similar windows tools working with bzflag? I suspect we have bounds issues someplace that we have not seen. |
| 18:29.54 | Patlabor221 | it's not a mem overwrite |
| 18:30.00 | Patlabor221 | it's the gl state it's not being set |
| 18:30.10 | Patlabor221 | and boundschecker won't go into the driver |
| 18:30.16 | learner | i tested memory on os x -- it was fine in both client and server |
| 18:30.20 | Chestal | I suspect that "my" two glbugs have a common reason |
| 18:30.25 | learner | the opengl pipeline gets out of whack |
| 18:30.34 | Patlabor221 | something is just not calling the right glEnable() call |
| 18:30.38 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 18:30.42 | Chestal | I have tried tofollow what happens withthe material stuff, but I got lost |
| 18:30.43 | Patlabor221 | the state is horked |
| 18:30.50 | *** join/#bzflag orchid (~bzgirl@toronto-hs-64-26-176-100.s-ip.magma.ca) |
| 18:30.52 | DTRemenak | the alt-tab problem can be resolved (the wrong way) by calling doInitLists twice |
| 18:30.56 | Chestal | andI really have no clue about gl |
| 18:30.59 | Patlabor221 | the material stuff is overkill now that everyone uses textures |
| 18:31.00 | learner | i ran a quick profile and noticed little things like the count of glBegins do not match the count of glEnds |
| 18:31.19 | Patlabor221 | that will surely bork the state |
| 18:31.22 | learner | indeed |
| 18:31.25 | DTRemenak | really |
| 18:31.32 | learner | it was off by 1 or 2 depending on the timing |
| 18:31.43 | learner | glEnd missing, iirc |
| 18:31.52 | Patlabor221 | could try thowing a flush in there |
| 18:31.54 | stibnite | hashmark is updated to cvs, thanks bryjen for the heads up |
| 18:32.00 | Chestal | learner: how did you profile it? |
| 18:32.09 | Patlabor221 | that should make it better |
| 18:32.14 | DTRemenak | I split doInitDisplayLists up into pieces to try some things |
| 18:32.23 | DTRemenak | and it's something between the ground and the mountains |
| 18:32.47 | DTRemenak | 'cause if you pull the clouds out to the top, and run ground and mountains multiple times, it fixes |
| 18:32.54 | DTRemenak | but only in some patterns |
| 18:33.06 | DTRemenak | I got real confused 'cause the patterns don't make sense |
| 18:33.08 | TimRiker | Patlabor221: that's likely as well, but I suspect we have bounds issues someplace. |
| 18:33.27 | learner | Chestal: apple has an opengl pipeline profiling tool - i can get a trace of every single opengl call in order, and sums, etc |
| 18:33.44 | Chestal | learner: ah, I wonder what would be a good way to find the culprits, hmm |
| 18:34.00 | Chestal | every glBegin should have a corresponding glEnd? |
| 18:34.04 | TimRiker | Patlabor221: still a log of software 3d systems. I'd like to support them as best we can. I expect that opinion will change at some point, but it hasn't yet. |
| 18:34.08 | Chestal | oris there some implicit end? |
| 18:34.14 | learner | there were simply too many calls to catch it just by reading -- at least at a glance (which is all I gave it) |
| 18:34.31 | TimRiker | learner: using what kinds of tests? bound checking stuff? |
| 18:34.43 | Chestal | before we drop software rendering support, we shoudl drop support for compilers which cannot get the scope of variables in for loops right :-) |
| 18:34.44 | learner | there should be a matching end for every end, implicit or not |
| 18:34.50 | Chestal | after all, the rule was made like 10 years ago |
| 18:35.16 | learner | TimRiker: no, they have hooks in their opengl implementation that lets them intercept every call |
| 18:35.23 | Chestal | learner: of course, it's just glEnd() in the code, so there is no way to automatically see towhich glBegin() a glEnd() relates? |
| 18:35.41 | learner | i didn't do anything per se, other than "attach" to the process and watch it |
| 18:36.07 | learner | chestal: not really -- that's what makes it "hard" :( |
| 18:36.33 | Chestal | hmm, I wonder whether ltracing bzflag would work, let me try |
| 18:36.56 | learner | we could rap them in a macro that did some simple reference counting to make sure glBegin is not called when we're already begin'd |
| 18:37.15 | Chestal | they cannot be nested? |
| 18:37.55 | *** join/#bzflag scanline (~micah@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 18:38.00 | Chestal | hmm, ltrace gives "error: call nesting to deep" |
| 18:38.08 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@proxyle01.ext.ti.com) |
| 18:38.10 | learner | they "shouldn't" be |
| 18:38.24 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 18:38.26 | TimRiker | wrap glbegin/glend with a funtion that prints source/line numbers and run that way? |
| 18:38.30 | TimRiker | er proxy |
| 18:38.34 | Chestal | lots of mutex locks/unlocks |
| 18:38.50 | Chestal | learner: without nesting, it should be easy, no? |
| 18:39.04 | learner | it should -- once wrapped, yes |
| 18:39.05 | Chestal | then we could use a macroas TIm suggests |
| 18:39.32 | learner | I'm not sure that |
| 18:39.58 | learner | er, I'm not sure that's "the" problem, but it's definately something to look into |
| 18:40.01 | Chestal | what are the 5 parameters to glbegin? |
| 18:40.17 | learner | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:40.29 | Chestal | hmm,when I log I get glBegin(1, 0x3ecccccd, 0, 0x080601ab, 0) |
| 18:40.35 | Chestal | so mayeb it already is a macro? |
| 18:40.44 | TimRiker | perhaps. |
| 18:40.58 | learner | perhaps your implementation |
| 18:42.06 | learner | you can nest display lists, but I don't think we're really using those. true? |
| 18:42.12 | Chestal | in my log, the begins/end look fine |
| 18:42.23 | Chestal | but then this ws just a quick test and without textures etc. |
| 18:42.39 | learner | try minimizing, turning on lighting, etc |
| 18:43.03 | DTRemenak | gah....I hate windows...one process freezes and the whole thing starts falling apart |
| 18:43.04 | learner | on os x, the crash/problems are _only_ when lighting is enabled |
| 18:43.10 | DTRemenak | off to reboot, brb |
| 18:43.29 | Chestal | lighting is the single feature I have on |
| 18:43.46 | Chestal | I'll try to play with a bot this time |
| 18:45.32 | Chestal | still fine in the logs |
| 18:45.38 | Chestal | but it's almost unplayable with ltrace |
| 18:45.48 | TimRiker | autopilot vs bots is fun to watch. |
| 18:46.00 | learner | autopilot usually wins easy |
| 18:46.18 | TimRiker | hence "bots" instead of "bot" ;-) |
| 18:46.25 | learner | hehe |
| 18:46.58 | learner | i think mac usually tested 10 to 1 or something to make it "fair" :) |
| 18:48.37 | Chestal | the sadthing is, the shininess bug is suddnely gone :-| |
| 18:48.51 | Chestal | don't give him jumping |
| 18:48.57 | Chestal | that's kinda unfair |
| 18:49.03 | learner | heh |
| 18:49.36 | Chestal | andnothing has been changed lately which should have any effect on gl |
| 18:49.38 | Chestal | that is strange |
| 18:49.46 | Chestal | or was there a change which I missed? |
| 18:49.55 | Chestal | this year? |
| 18:53.16 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-225-249.dialup.innercite.com) |
| 18:53.31 | TimRiker | not that I can think of. |
| 18:53.31 | learner | there we go.. glBegin 781303 ; glEnd 781302 |
| 18:54.00 | TimRiker | now find it. ;-) |
| 18:54.13 | learner | the problem could be that quitting the application causes the last glEnd to never occur, which would mean that this is a goose chase |
| 18:54.22 | TimRiker | true. |
| 18:54.44 | learner | the most called func, by far is glTexCoord2f |
| 18:55.08 | learner | (with lighting off, at least) |
| 18:55.09 | scanline | more than glVertex? |
| 18:55.48 | learner | yep |
| 18:56.18 | learner | though glVertex3fv, 3f, and 2f, are the three next |
| 18:56.38 | TimRiker | so is there a better way to do textures assuming that software rendering will have them disabled? |
| 18:56.44 | learner | and cumulatively there are certainly more |
| 18:57.12 | learner | time-wise, it wasn't spent doing that call -- that was just count |
| 18:57.45 | shkoo | so, like, about this whole branching thing -- does this mean my patches won't make it in until 1.11? |
| 18:57.57 | TimRiker | shkoo: which patches? |
| 18:58.08 | learner | the most expensive was CGLFlushDrawable (swab buffers) which is expected, and then glBegin and glEnd -- simply called too much |
| 18:58.13 | shkoo | the rabbit-selection algorithm option patch and the require /identify patch |
| 18:58.48 | TimRiker | shkoo: the require /identify should go in after someone else tests it. the rabbit is still contraversial. |
| 18:59.04 | shkoo | i even updated the man page and config file generator. :) |
| 18:59.20 | TimRiker | does require /identify turn off /register? |
| 18:59.24 | shkoo | nope |
| 18:59.45 | shkoo | just makes it so that if you /register no one else can use your callsign, even if you're not on. |
| 18:59.45 | TimRiker | what happens if one registers and the name is already used? /me has never tested that. |
| 19:00.04 | TimRiker | shkoo: nice. |
| 19:00.17 | TimRiker | I'll try to take a look at that one today. |
| 19:00.26 | learner | OH.. i'm mistaken.. that was for one timeslice... there is a glEnd missing approximately every every millionth call -- not just 1 |
| 19:00.30 | shkoo | i didn't touch that part. i'm assuming the original developer of the /identify stuff already put in the error condition tests. :) |
| 19:00.46 | TimRiker | shkoo: nod |
| 19:00.47 | Chestal | well, the bug is hiding for now, can try the other bug (which is similar to the windows alt-tab one) later on my other machine |
| 19:01.04 | shkoo | though you know what they say. assume makes an ass of u and me. |
| 19:07.38 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~JeffM@208.48.199.220) |
| 19:07.38 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 19:11.19 | learner | hrm.. as i look deeper into this profiler, I am impressed.. |
| 19:21.32 | *** join/#bzflag TSWoodV (~woodt@fluid.atdd.noaa.gov) |
| 19:22.44 | learner | if they can set it on the menu, I think people will be more inclined to get creative -- but i don't think most like their e-mail there |
| 19:26.18 | learner | http://brlcad.org/tmp/trace.txt.bz2 if anyone else cares to poke a gander at it |
| 19:29.18 | learner | 1mb, so about a min to download |
| 19:29.48 | learner | it's a "very small" timeslice just a few frames |
| 19:34.16 | *** part/#bzflag TSWoodV (~woodt@fluid.atdd.noaa.gov) |
| 19:57.08 | *** join/#bzflag Manu_1 (~Manu_1@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:57.21 | *** part/#bzflag Manu_1 (~Manu_1@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:59.38 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~chatzilla@host-227-137.dialup.innercite.com) |
| 20:04.12 | Chestal | learner: the trace looks fine to me |
| 20:04.20 | Chestal | learner: there's only one glBegin near the end |
| 20:04.24 | Chestal | learner: which isn't closed |
| 20:04.36 | learner | i found that out.. it's not long enough |
| 20:05.01 | learner | it's about 1/100000 calls, and that log only has less than 1000 |
| 20:05.07 | Chestal | hmm |
| 20:05.13 | Chestal | how many calls are there / frame? |
| 20:05.23 | learner | too many |
| 20:06.42 | Chestal | are you working on the glbegin/end macro or whatever? |
| 20:06.50 | learner | yeah, it's building now |
| 20:13.25 | TimRiker | DTRemenak: is the mac compiling stars.cxx directly? it should not be |
| 20:13.40 | DTRemenak | mac? I dunno |
| 20:14.16 | TimRiker | er your windows compile then.... |
| 20:14.30 | DTRemenak | hm |
| 20:15.50 | DTRemenak | looks like it |
| 20:16.30 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-120-217.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 20:16.51 | Chestal | we could make it a .h? |
| 20:17.35 | DTRemenak | that is, it runs g++ -c ../../src/bzflag/stars.cxx ... |
| 20:17.52 | DTRemenak | but I'm not entirely sure how dev-cpp works |
| 20:18.58 | DTRemenak | I'm not real sure how to get it to link bzflag right either |
| 20:20.43 | TimRiker | Chestal: well it defines an element. /me punts and #errors on compile. |
| 20:21.26 | DTRemenak | hm, wonder if that'll make something else choke |
| 20:22.47 | TimRiker | compiling and linking it in should create a duplicate symbol. |
| 20:23.04 | TimRiker | I changed cvs so it won't compile by itself. |
| 20:23.06 | learner | eh, #including a cxx file? |
| 20:23.28 | TimRiker | yeah. with the stars array. |
| 20:23.31 | Chestal | TimRiker: yes, but it is included into a sourcefile, does not look like a .cxx tome |
| 20:23.39 | learner | or me |
| 20:24.12 | TimRiker | well it sould be a separate source file and just have the array. but the array would need to be declared in a header someplace. |
| 20:24.42 | Chestal | as is, it is defined static and as such meant to be a part of BackgroundRenderer |
| 20:24.42 | learner | sure |
| 20:25.03 | Chestal | could as well move it into that file,or when we include it give it a different extension? not sure |
| 20:25.17 | TimRiker | check my cvs change and see what you think of that. ;-) |
| 20:25.35 | Chestal | furthtermore, it needs comments to say which line is which star :-) |
| 20:26.11 | Chestal | TimRiker: on that email discussion |
| 20:26.35 | Chestal | TimRiker: I know 3 groups of people: peopel who do not set email and thus get the auto-generated thing which is useless inh most cases |
| 20:26.48 | Chestal | 2) peopel who try to set it to nothing |
| 20:27.00 | Chestal | 3) peopel settign it to their team/clan |
| 20:27.14 | Chestal | ok, and a 4th group, that's you :-) |
| 20:27.53 | TimRiker | I've seen people that set it to anonymous but not many. |
| 20:28.03 | learner | team/clan "should" be handled by a different field, really .. good task for 1.11 |
| 20:28.24 | Chestal | email could be useful |
| 20:28.30 | Chestal | but probably not in the scoreboard |
| 20:28.31 | TimRiker | 3 and (me) is more useful than "" |
| 20:28.33 | Chestal | too much clutter |
| 20:29.00 | Chestal | I myself set it to "The Moles" all the time |
| 20:29.10 | TimRiker | which is useful. ;-) |
| 20:29.11 | Chestal | CVS now has the ability to set it via the menu |
| 20:29.23 | Chestal | and I guess thatspecial set anonymous switch |
| 20:29.34 | learner | and just generally not useful at all by using the hostname and system username |
| 20:29.43 | Chestal | which do you meant when you wanted the changes to be reverted? |
| 20:29.56 | Nivex | where is the proper place to submit an RFE? |
| 20:29.59 | Pimpinella | if somebody _really needs my email he has many sources to find it |
| 20:30.12 | learner | Nivex: there is an RFE section on sourceforge |
| 20:30.13 | Pimpinella | i dont want all the other to have it |
| 20:30.33 | TimRiker | having it in the gui is nice. |
| 20:30.56 | Pimpinella | Chestal: already seen it, nice |
| 20:31.04 | TimRiker | I meant to remoe the special anonymous switch. |
| 20:31.19 | *** join/#bzflag michaelh (~meeqrg@63-229-212-197.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 20:31.44 | TimRiker | Pimpinella: so set it to "none" or NA or anonymous or you wish etc. |
| 20:31.57 | Chestal | ah, that seems to be set,when I set email to "" via the menu |
| 20:32.10 | Pimpinella | no, i also have my team in it |
| 20:32.13 | michaelh | it sets anonymous 1 |
| 20:32.24 | michaelh | because I got sick of looking through piles of code |
| 20:32.52 | Chestal | the questiom is exactly what behaviour we want |
| 20:32.52 | michaelh | to figure out why set email "" doesn't stick |
| 20:32.55 | TimRiker | I want to encourage it's use. in fact require it. which is not to say that I require you to put your email address there, but I wish more people would. |
| 20:33.06 | Chestal | when someoen starts bzflag for the first time, it will auto-generate the email string, yes? |
| 20:33.11 | michaelh | yes |
| 20:33.14 | TimRiker | it tries, yes. |
| 20:33.15 | michaelh | like it normally does |
| 20:33.17 | Chestal | ok, then player can change that via menu |
| 20:33.22 | michaelh | right |
| 20:33.29 | Chestal | question remaining is what should happen, when player clears that field |
| 20:33.42 | michaelh | Currently it shows nothing |
| 20:33.48 | TimRiker | the anonymous field is just more mess in the code to avoid entering "none" there. |
| 20:34.15 | michaelh | Basically, and also because there is no way to make "" stick via the config file |
| 20:34.26 | learner | TimRiker: why? |
| 20:34.39 | michaelh | every time? |
| 20:34.42 | Chestal | TimRiker: each time, when the user clears the field? |
| 20:34.46 | learner | why do you wish people would use it more, i mean? |
| 20:34.48 | TimRiker | michaelh: if it's empty. |
| 20:34.48 | Chestal | on startup, that is |
| 20:35.11 | Chestal | it's somewhat confusing, though |
| 20:35.17 | TimRiker | learner: knowing others can contact you encourages good behavior. |
| 20:35.18 | Chestal | you start bzflag, clear the field, play, nothing is displayed |
| 20:35.28 | Chestal | restart bzflag, auto-generated string is back |
| 20:35.39 | TimRiker | being anonymous encourages doing things to people you would not do to thier face. |
| 20:35.57 | Patlabor221 | heh, then internet does that to people ;) |
| 20:36.13 | learner | ok, I'll buy that reason |
| 20:36.30 | michaelh | So you're saying there always has to be something |
| 20:36.43 | learner | but then the fundamental problem is that setting email to __nothing__ in the config file doesn't work |
| 20:36.45 | michaelh | even if it it is gibberish entered by the user |
| 20:36.45 | TimRiker | yes. |
| 20:36.48 | TimRiker | yes |
| 20:37.08 | michaelh | right learner |
| 20:37.15 | learner | there's a difference between unset and set to nothing -- unset should generate -- if I set it empty, it should stay empty |
| 20:37.37 | learner | but then that's a limitation of bzdb right now |
| 20:37.44 | Chestal | and there's a difference between emtpy and nothing when displayed in the scoreboard |
| 20:37.52 | Chestal | either you get () or nothing |
| 20:38.02 | michaelh | pfft |
| 20:38.13 | Chestal | and there's still -anonymous I think? |
| 20:38.30 | michaelh | set anonymous is just a link to the anonymous variable |
| 20:38.47 | michaelh | so set anonymous 1 does the same thing as -anonymous |
| 20:38.48 | Chestal | yes, jsut considering the user's point of view |
| 20:38.56 | Chestal | it somewhat confusing and always was |
| 20:39.15 | michaelh | someone bypassed the code that puts "anonymous" in the email |
| 20:39.21 | michaelh | and I just left it that way |
| 20:39.24 | learner | isn't/wasn't there a bug about setting config entries to nothing |
| 20:40.04 | Chestal | so,now I am as confused as I was before |
| 20:40.06 | michaelh | with the kung-fu procedure passing, bzdb becomes a wee bit more confusing to debug |
| 20:40.30 | Chestal | can we agree on the behaviour we want? |
| 20:40.45 | michaelh | Should probably also make it clear to end users |
| 20:41.32 | michaelh | hmmm |
| 20:42.24 | learner | well, tim's said no anonymous so that means remove the -anonymous flag, no? I'd then expect that setting e-mail to empty will regenerate the e-mail string for now until bzdb changed (1.11) |
| 20:42.53 | Chestal | I think Tim's wishes are underspecified :-) |
| 20:43.02 | Chestal | learner: regenerate when? |
| 20:43.13 | learner | when it is empty |
| 20:43.15 | learner | or unset |
| 20:43.22 | Chestal | when? |
| 20:43.26 | learner | later it can be "fixed" to preserve empty |
| 20:43.37 | Chestal | if it's empty, but when |
| 20:43.45 | learner | when what? |
| 20:43.55 | Chestal | when regenerate it? on start? |
| 20:44.07 | Chestal | it's confusing that way |
| 20:44.25 | learner | wherever it happens now |
| 20:44.33 | Chestal | it happens on start now I assume |
| 20:44.40 | learner | i would assume that too |
| 20:44.48 | Chestal | but from a user view that looks liek a bug, you clear the entry, you play without email |
| 20:44.55 | Chestal | end client, start client, email is back |
| 20:45.21 | Chestal | IMHO the current behaviour is more logical |
| 20:45.51 | learner | if the menu entry queries bzdb after the field is left to update the value, it should redisplay the regenerated value |
| 20:46.11 | learner | i agree that current is more logical.. |
| 20:46.15 | learner | *cough* |
| 20:46.36 | learner | perhaps just remove the command-line switch and still use the internal variable |
| 20:46.39 | Chestal | although the implementation with the additional anonymous flag/option is not so great |
| 20:46.55 | Chestal | so, what happens when you assign "" to a BZDB variable? |
| 20:47.09 | Chestal | the variable goes away? or is it a problem with saving only? |
| 20:47.25 | learner | i think it's a problem when saving |
| 20:47.41 | michaelh | it doesn't write the set line at all |
| 20:47.51 | michaelh | on save |
| 20:47.53 | Chestal | where is the saving done? |
| 20:48.02 | michaelh | unsure actually :) |
| 20:48.15 | learner | yes, empty strings are not written -- that could perhaps be fixed to actually write them out. not sure how many are empty. |
| 20:48.17 | michaelh | you can do it litterally in perhaps dumpResources |
| 20:48.30 | michaelh | or it does some of them automatically |
| 20:48.47 | michaelh | I mean you can deliberately put a value in |
| 20:48.47 | Chestal | is there any downside to not store empty variables? |
| 20:50.04 | Chestal | hmm |
| 20:50.08 | Chestal | that's all very confusing |
| 20:51.22 | Chestal | variables with _ in BZDB, variables without _ mostly not in BZDB, but in startupinfo and only set in BZDB to safe them? |
| 20:51.31 | Chestal | is there any concept behind this? :-_ |
| 20:52.18 | learner | that comes with the new command interface |
| 20:52.35 | shkoo | bummer, score per time for being the rabbit would require client changes. :( |
| 20:53.01 | Chestal | I simpyl do not understand the concept of the different type sof variables |
| 20:53.33 | Chestal | possibly it's simply a mess? and when BZDB was introduced it ws integrated until it worked and noone really finished it? |
| 20:53.42 | Chestal | shkoo: why? |
| 20:54.04 | shkoo | chestal: client ignores MsgScore messages for itself. it only changes the local player's score with kill messages. |
| 20:54.20 | Chestal | hmm |
| 20:54.29 | shkoo | so, the only way the server could make the client think it has more score is by making a bogus tank and sending kill messages. |
| 20:54.31 | learner | chestal: that was around the time captain_proton decide to become a lurker |
| 20:54.32 | shkoo | too gross, imo. :) |
| 20:54.59 | Chestal | learner: this needs to be revisited, along with the different levelsof caching, depenedencies etc. |
| 20:55.26 | Chestal | shkoo: hmm, too bad, I guess later versions shouldn't moify own score on their own |
| 20:55.34 | shkoo | yes, i agree. |
| 20:55.39 | learner | indeed.. 1.11 task for sure is to rip it apart |
| 20:55.47 | learner | the whole cacheing thing is messy too |
| 20:56.24 | learner | it just implies bzdb needs to be defined or implemented differently |
| 20:56.39 | Chestal | and we must understand what things we put into it |
| 20:56.42 | Chestal | and why and how |
| 20:57.20 | Chestal | I am to scared to try and change the "" save thing now |
| 20:57.29 | learner | hehe |
| 20:57.45 | learner | for a "patch" release, I would be too |
| 20:57.56 | shkoo | then the server can give or take away points for other things. you could have some kind of race mode where you get points for driving laps or something... |
| 20:58.20 | learner | that's why I suggested either reverting to "broken" or just removing the -anonymous option, but not the behavior |
| 20:58.21 | learner | for now |
| 20:58.48 | learner | the latter makes most sense for 1.10.x |
| 21:02.03 | Chestal | I think I agree, dumpo -anonymous and keep the current behaviour |
| 21:02.12 | Chestal | everythign else seems too messy to me for now |
| 21:02.17 | Chestal | just have to convince Tim :-) |
| 21:02.32 | *** join/#bzflag KnottyMan (~cbond@65.106.31.130.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 21:05.14 | KnottyMan | map question: negative size pryamids - do they work in 1.10.2? They are rendering the right Z size (-8), but the Z location is wrong (+8). |
| 21:05.30 | *** join/#bzflag |tim| (~|tim|@ip68-106-184-191.sb.sd.cox.net) |
| 21:05.39 | learner | I think that's basically what tim wanted anyways -- he said to just remove the switch, just in not so many words |
| 21:06.30 | michaelh | so we have to interpret the Will of Tim ? |
| 21:06.40 | KnottyMan | well, I want the "point" to be at 0, and the Z location is at 0 in the map, but they render at +8 |
| 21:07.37 | learner | eek.. googlebot is gathering up brlcad.org/tmp |
| 21:08.26 | Chestal | learner: hmm, uhm, confusion still grows :-) What I meant is keep the current behaviour, for that the internal anon variable is still needed |
| 21:09.25 | learner | i did too |
| 21:09.43 | learner | just remove the -anonymous option |
| 21:09.53 | learner | i.e. remove the switch, but keep the variable |
| 21:10.07 | Chestal | but I don't think that that was Tim was implying |
| 21:10.14 | learner | so it can't be set via command-line, but can be edited via config |
| 21:10.16 | Chestal | but we can always pretend he did ;-) |
| 21:10.23 | learner | it's close :) |
| 21:11.01 | learner | the behavior is more important than the implementation |
| 21:11.21 | learner | otherwise the menu item should be removed, or modified |
| 21:13.17 | *** join/#bzflag |tim| (~|tim|@ip68-106-184-191.sb.sd.cox.net) |
| 21:13.18 | Chestal | add caching to bzdb for integer/float values <- this has been done to my understanding? |
| 21:13.38 | learner | news to me if it has |
| 21:14.48 | Chestal | bzdb stores strings |
| 21:14.57 | Chestal | you call evalto get a float value from that string |
| 21:15.09 | Chestal | eval caches these float values, so it does not have to atoi all the time |
| 21:15.19 | Chestal | then there's en external cache for some frequently accessed vars |
| 21:15.35 | michaelh | it's like a puter in the puter |
| 21:15.36 | Chestal | the above item is IMHO done by the eval internalcaching |
| 21:15.48 | learner | ah, okay |
| 21:15.51 | Chestal | I'll collect the BZDB issues into one item |
| 21:16.30 | learner | i just know that the plan to actually store real types is on my plate for later |
| 21:17.10 | Chestal | I have some cool template auto-caching classes, but didn't commit them because I got confused by the different types (aka globals, config items) in bzdb |
| 21:17.26 | Chestal | also, the dependency problem stopped me |
| 21:18.06 | learner | i plan to define a value/variable interface so variables can have automatic bounds checks peformed when set, they can self-register with the database also |
| 21:18.30 | learner | this is needed for the command, flag, and option management changes |
| 21:19.33 | Patlabor221 | wheee one CD full of old sci-fi themes :) |
| 21:19.45 | captain_proton | heh |
| 21:19.58 | Patlabor221 | Tron had a theme song?!?! |
| 21:20.39 | learner | oh yeah |
| 21:21.04 | Patlabor221 | what the heck is Mission: Genesis |
| 21:21.33 | Chestal | never heard of it, it's not old, though, 1997 |
| 21:22.09 | Patlabor221 | oo Time tunnel |
| 21:23.07 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-226-83.dialup.innercite.com) |
| 21:23.24 | Patlabor221 | and 3 difrent versions of lost in space |
| 21:24.30 | Patlabor221 | captain_proton &| learner you guys want a copy of this? |
| 21:24.46 | captain_proton | Patlabor221: yeah, once navi is fixed |
| 21:26.00 | Patlabor221 | http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00000G4T3/qid%3D1073078752/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/104-8268372-2773513 |
| 21:26.05 | Patlabor221 | that has a track list |
| 21:27.25 | Patlabor221 | poo, it's the SG movie not the SG:1 theme |
| 21:32.45 | *** join/#bzflag lurgyman (~lurgyman@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 21:37.13 | *** join/#bzflag cniV (~kchan@c211-30-113-108.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 21:37.42 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-120-217.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 21:38.14 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-120-217.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 21:40.56 | *** part/#bzflag drinian (~drinian@pcp03995358pcs.hamntn01.nj.comcast.net) |
| 21:49.13 | Corona | woo hoo stargate sg1 marathon tonight |
| 21:56.36 | Pimpinella | does anyone know the CD "Spheres of Io" ? |
| 22:00.09 | Corona | 2 hours and counting |
| 22:00.59 | Pimpinella | ? |
| 22:01.18 | Corona | ~google "Spheres of Io CD" |
| 22:01.40 | Pimpinella | http://www.nas.nasa.gov/FAST/RND-93-010.walatka-clucas/htmldocs/chp_17.isolevu.html |
| 22:03.38 | Pimpinella | no, not that |
| 22:04.27 | Pimpinella | a CD full of athmospheric noise. great as background for bzflag |
| 22:04.49 | bryjen | hmm, the player counts on hashmark still don't seem to be right... |
| 22:05.16 | Corona | stibnite: would you send me a copy of your server config? |
| 22:06.26 | bryjen | in game, its 3,3,3,4 which doesn't match the actual players -or- what the list server shows |
| 22:08.08 | Corona | cya colorado |
| 22:08.31 | bryjen | the counts are greater than the actuals, so its not always decrementing them when it should? |
| 22:08.49 | Corona | TimRiker: which list server is presently in use? bzflsMy.php ? |
| 22:09.08 | Corona | did you happen to enable to debug logging somewhere? |
| 22:11.01 | bryjen | ~bzflist |
| 22:11.20 | Corona | hrm... crashed the client ;) |
| 22:11.22 | Corona | Thread 0 Crashed: |
| 22:11.22 | Corona | 0 org.bzflag.bzflag 0x001423c4 0x1000 + 0x1413c4 |
| 22:11.22 | Corona | 1 org.bzflag.bzflag 0x0001d5c8 HUDuiLabel::getString() const + 0xe8 |
| 22:11.23 | Corona | 2 org.bzflag.bzflag 0x0008651c JoinMenu::joinErrorCallback(char const*) + 0x8c |
| 22:11.23 | Corona | 3 org.bzflag.bzflag 0x00086570 JoinMenu::joinErrorCallback(char const*) + 0xe0 |
| 22:11.23 | Corona | 4 org.bzflag.bzflag 0x00086570 JoinMenu::joinErrorCallback(char const*) + 0xe0 |
| 22:11.25 | bryjen | ~bzfquery bzflag.hashmark.net:5154 |
| 22:12.17 | bryjen | yuck. does IRC not like newlines, or was someone too lazy to put them in those things? |
| 22:12.20 | Corona | it's not just incrementing, because I repeated rejoined with no effect |
| 22:12.30 | Corona | there are no newlines in there |
| 22:12.45 | bryjen | needs something to break it up |
| 22:12.56 | bryjen | The Big Blob 'O Text(tm) |
| 22:13.13 | Pimpinella | g'night |
| 22:15.30 | bryjen | hrm. kill -9 to my client didnt cause it to "keep" me counted either |
| 22:19.59 | bryjen | there's 1 extra green, 1 extra purple, 2 extra red, and rogue doesn't have a team count on the scoreboard |
| 22:32.26 | *** join/#bzflag Chikorita (Chikorita@ACA9024B.ipt.aol.com) |
| 22:33.26 | Chikorita | iz ther any Quol server admins here , besides Quol? |
| 22:34.13 | Chikorita | ~quol |
| 22:34.26 | Corona | yes chikums |
| 22:34.27 | Chikorita | ~quol2 |
| 22:34.54 | Chikorita | spoogebob iz causing problems ther on Q2, again |
| 22:34.59 | Corona | k |
| 22:35.57 | Chikorita | k |
| 22:35.59 | Chikorita | :) |
| 22:36.23 | Corona | ~q |
| 22:36.25 | | hmm... q is C * V, or quadra |
| 22:37.04 | Chikorita | ~q2 |
| 22:37.06 | | i heard q2 is a game |
| 22:38.23 | Chikorita | ibot: be nice |
| 22:38.25 | | rumour has it, be nice is don't be mean, be nice.. |
| 22:38.33 | Chikorita | yes |
| 22:39.21 | Chikorita | ibot: botsnack gummi savers |
| 22:39.21 | | Chikorita: :) |
| 22:39.26 | Chikorita | :) |
| 22:43.38 | david_v | hi Chiko :) |
| 22:43.54 | david_v | how's it going? |
| 22:44.11 | Chikorita | hi davy :) |
| 22:44.16 | Chikorita | itz goin good |
| 22:44.39 | Chikorita | now dat u caught mee here , heh wut did u wanna talk 2 mee bout? |
| 22:44.55 | david_v | oh. didn't you get my PM on the league site? |
| 22:45.26 | Chikorita | i think so ..dunt remember |
| 22:45.49 | david_v | i'd prefer to take it privately if you don't mind |
| 22:45.56 | david_v | in a query here |
| 22:46.15 | Chikorita | o okies |
| 22:46.21 | Chikorita | brb |
| 22:53.15 | *** join/#bzflag tapo (~tapo@p509299F0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:55.38 | tapo | ~Chestal |
| 22:55.40 | | a german gent that enjoys croissants with his pet duck, Tag. |
| 23:41.53 | Chikorita | bye peeps |
| 23:41.59 | Chikorita | bbl |
| 23:41.59 | Corona | bye bye |
| 23:42.21 | *** part/#bzflag tapo (~tapo@p509299F0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:45.28 | *** join/#bzflag goofy_work (~s2d@213.146.171.11) |
| 23:57.15 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@158.222.225.2) |