| 00:03.23 | *** join/#bzflag creeperz (~creeperz@host-11-76-220-24.midco.net) |
| 00:06.58 | ravenouswolf | well, i am dropping billions of packets, Patlabor221 |
| 00:07.08 | ravenouswolf | this is in the continuum game |
| 00:07.22 | Patlabor221 | then your router sucks man |
| 00:07.36 | Patlabor221 | see if they have any upgrades |
| 00:07.40 | ravenouswolf | shit that is really nice to hear |
| 00:07.42 | Patlabor221 | of the firmware type |
| 00:07.47 | ravenouswolf | i already took one back |
| 00:07.48 | Patlabor221 | tis the truth |
| 00:08.00 | Patlabor221 | just go to netgears site and get a firmware update |
| 00:08.05 | ravenouswolf | ok |
| 00:08.07 | ravenouswolf | dammit |
| 00:08.08 | *** part/#bzflag creeperz (~creeperz@host-11-76-220-24.midco.net) |
| 00:08.09 | ravenouswolf | i am ticked |
| 00:08.39 | Patlabor221 | welcome to the world of computers |
| 00:08.50 | ravenouswolf | look, i am no newbie |
| 00:09.05 | ravenouswolf | but i cant believe that something as simple as a router could be some f'ed up |
| 00:09.18 | ravenouswolf | i wonder... |
| 00:09.22 | Patlabor221 | the router is your centeral point |
| 00:09.23 | ravenouswolf | if it is my wifi adapter? |
| 00:09.27 | ravenouswolf | i know |
| 00:09.32 | ravenouswolf | it MIGHT be my adapter |
| 00:09.34 | Patlabor221 | your gonna have to test |
| 00:09.35 | ravenouswolf | hmmm |
| 00:09.36 | Patlabor221 | and see |
| 00:12.01 | Patlabor221 | this is a universal truth |
| 00:12.24 | ravenouswolf | yep |
| 00:12.36 | TyroneFHornigh | Denial is not a river in Egypt. ;P |
| 00:16.45 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@158.222.225.6) |
| 00:19.38 | *** join/#bzflag |tim| (~|tim|@ip68-106-184-191.sb.sd.cox.net) |
| 00:20.11 | Patlabor221 | ohh poo, OS File stil uses M_ |
| 00:20.14 | Patlabor221 | I need to change that |
| 00:25.00 | TyroneFHornigh | scanline: The author of the other IRC client is fixing the topic problem. He sent his thanks for finding it. I figure you should get any credit due. |
| 00:28.56 | scanline | TyroneFHornigh: hah, don't worry about it |
| 00:29.23 | *** join/#bzflag ravenouswolf_ (~altivec@ip68-102-191-150.ks.ok.cox.net) |
| 00:29.31 | ravenouswolf_ | one guess as to what just happened |
| 00:29.38 | ravenouswolf_ | my fscking router died |
| 00:30.03 | ravenouswolf_ | dang, i am ghosting |
| 00:30.05 | scanline | heh |
| 00:30.22 | scanline | so maybe it was just the extra traffic from bzflag making it overheat or something :P |
| 00:30.36 | ravenouswolf_ | i guess |
| 00:30.40 | ravenouswolf_ | lol |
| 00:30.43 | ravenouswolf_ | there i go |
| 00:30.51 | Patlabor221 | those netgears are tiny little things |
| 00:30.58 | ravenouswolf | oui they are |
| 00:31.14 | ravenouswolf | i really hope that it's not defective :-( |
| 00:31.17 | ravenouswolf | or botched |
| 00:31.41 | Patlabor221 | you try a firmware update? |
| 00:32.11 | *** join/#bzflag Bagheera (~Bagheera@pool-162-84-20-77.sal.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:32.35 | ravenouswolf | not yet |
| 00:32.45 | ravenouswolf | i am dropping packets like insanity intself |
| 00:33.06 | ravenouswolf | i am doing something about it right now |
| 00:34.24 | *** join/#bzflag creeperz (~creeperz@host-11-76-220-24.midco.net) |
| 00:34.40 | Patlabor221 | wow for loops with iterators get really long :) |
| 00:36.07 | ravenouswolf | Question |
| 00:36.12 | ravenouswolf | oops |
| 00:36.20 | ravenouswolf | >> How Does SPI prevent Ping of Death DoS attacks? |
| 00:36.27 | ravenouswolf | The router will look at each packet and if the router notices a specific amount of ping requests over a certain amount of time coming from the same address, the packets will be dropped. |
| 00:36.36 | ravenouswolf | is that enlightening? |
| 00:36.57 | Spiff | Terribly. |
| 00:36.58 | Spiff | :) |
| 00:37.04 | Patlabor221 | so your flooding |
| 00:37.06 | Patlabor221 | don't flood |
| 00:37.09 | ravenouswolf | crap |
| 00:37.09 | Patlabor221 | or change the seting |
| 00:37.30 | ravenouswolf | how do i "not flood"? |
| 00:37.36 | Patlabor221 | dono |
| 00:37.46 | ravenouswolf | let me look at the router page |
| 00:39.42 | ravenouswolf | *sigh* |
| 00:39.47 | ravenouswolf | how very disappointing |
| 00:40.32 | ravenouswolf | Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time |
| 00:40.36 | ravenouswolf | what do all those mean? |
| 00:40.41 | ravenouswolf | actually |
| 00:40.47 | ravenouswolf | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:40.52 | ravenouswolf | what do those mean? |
| 00:41.06 | Patlabor221 | that's the status of your router. |
| 00:41.16 | scanline | ravenouswolf: this isn't a bzflag issue, you should find a general networking help channel |
| 00:41.24 | Patlabor221 | Really I would call them and ask them what's up, they probably know more about your router then we do. |
| 00:41.38 | ravenouswolf | scanline, ok |
| 00:41.43 | ravenouswolf | Patlabor221, ok |
| 00:42.08 | ravenouswolf | joininj #wireless... |
| 00:43.45 | Patlabor221 | wow, it builds |
| 00:43.47 | Patlabor221 | amazing |
| 00:44.21 | ravenouswolf | hey, i can disable SPI |
| 00:44.25 | ravenouswolf | lemme try that |
| 00:44.53 | Patlabor221 | thank you for sharing that with us |
| 00:45.04 | *** join/#bzflag ravenouswolf_ (~altivec@ip68-102-191-150.ks.ok.cox.net) |
| 00:45.12 | ravenouswolf_ | let's try again... |
| 00:46.19 | ravenouswolf_ | har, so far so good |
| 00:46.30 | ravenouswolf_ | bloody hell |
| 00:46.33 | ravenouswolf_ | nevermind |
| 00:47.05 | Patlabor221 | I don't think we need the play-by-play man. |
| 00:47.16 | ravenouswolf_ | disabling SPI didnt help |
| 00:47.30 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o scanline] by Patlabor221 |
| 00:47.39 | Patlabor221 | really man, we don't know |
| 00:47.41 | ravenouswolf_ | Patlabor221, lol ok |
| 00:47.46 | *** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (~MAC@balt-209-163-100-214.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net) |
| 00:47.47 | ravenouswolf_ | allllllriiiiiiight |
| 00:48.23 | scanline | ravenouswolf: get ye both of you out of #bzflag :P |
| 00:48.43 | ravenouswolf_ | eh? |
| 00:48.52 | Patlabor221 | or at least stop telling us about your router. |
| 00:49.28 | ravenouswolf_ | sooooo sorrrrrrry to anooooyyyyyy you like that |
| 00:49.43 | ravenouswolf_ | any minute now, and you'll take away my posting priveleges |
| 00:49.46 | Patlabor221 | well it's just that once it got past being a BZ flag problem it's a way bit off topic |
| 00:49.50 | ravenouswolf_ | wouldnt be the first time |
| 00:49.52 | Patlabor221 | no we are not mean |
| 00:49.58 | Patlabor221 | just tone it down |
| 00:50.08 | MrApathyCream | and there never is off topic discussions here |
| 00:50.31 | Patlabor221 | yeah but not on routers, when noone is listening. |
| 00:50.33 | scanline | MrApathyCream: discussion and tech support aren't quite the same |
| 00:50.39 | ravenouswolf_ | suuurrrre |
| 00:50.55 | *** part/#bzflag ravenouswolf_ (~altivec@ip68-102-191-150.ks.ok.cox.net) |
| 00:51.48 | *** mode/#bzflag [-o scanline] by Patlabor221 |
| 00:52.25 | Patlabor221 | no, he just went off for a long while giving us a play by play on his router, after we exausted all our ideas |
| 00:52.54 | Patlabor221 | there is a limit to the support stuff you can deal with |
| 00:53.33 | Patlabor221 | it's not fun |
| 00:53.35 | Patlabor221 | and it's not easy |
| 00:53.54 | MrApathyCream | but the babes are awesome |
| 00:54.02 | MrApathyCream | oh wait that's football |
| 00:54.22 | Spiff | LoL. I figured that out after spending several hours on the phone with tech support reps (involving that nasty Compaq accross the room from me)... |
| 00:54.37 | Patlabor221 | I think tech support for a game would be funny, cus a valid response would be "well sir, you must just suck at this" |
| 00:54.50 | Spiff | One of the dudes told me that I was really nice to work with because I knew how to plug/unplug things! LoL |
| 00:54.51 | *** join/#bzflag Bagins_ (~Bagheera@pool-162-84-20-77.sal.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:55.04 | Spiff | Shire! Baggins! |
| 00:55.28 | Patlabor221 | compaq hires monkeys for tier1 |
| 00:55.43 | Patlabor221 | just like AOL,HP, and E-Machines |
| 00:55.50 | Spiff | Still bitter about that bios booting go around? ;) |
| 00:56.15 | Patlabor221 | no, I just did support for 5 years here |
| 00:56.38 | Spiff | So you're a monkey? *snickers* |
| 00:56.52 | Patlabor221 | naw, I wasn't Tier1 |
| 00:57.20 | Spiff | Oh good. :-D 'cause the guys I talked to weren't very fun.. at least not most of 'em. |
| 00:57.26 | Patlabor221 | well cept for the one year where it was just me in the sup dept, but I hired somone as soon as I could |
| 00:57.58 | Patlabor221 | when we had 3 support people, I was the LAST one to have to pick up the phone :) |
| 00:58.18 | Spiff | I bet that made ya sob for joy. ;-) |
| 00:58.31 | *** join/#bzflag Bagins_ (~Bagheera@pool-162-84-20-77.sal.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:58.36 | Patlabor221 | no that was when I left the dept |
| 00:58.40 | Patlabor221 | that was a good day |
| 00:58.50 | Patlabor221 | only one in the company to "escape" |
| 00:59.24 | Spiff | Sucks to be the other guys. |
| 00:59.24 | Patlabor221 | it was funny, the entire support dept didn't show up one day, so I had to take calls. I forgot how supid our customers are. |
| 01:00.03 | Patlabor221 | naw, david dosnt' care, as he's a broken man, and Sean has it fine, support calls have gone down in the past while. |
| 01:01.01 | Spiff | If at all possible.. I'd like to get a job having something to do with computers when I move. |
| 01:01.50 | Spiff | But methinks I'll try to avoid anything to do with the phone, tech support, etc. |
| 01:02.19 | *** join/#bzflag JBDiGriz (~JBDiGriz@adsl-63-204-118-194.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net) |
| 01:03.10 | Patlabor221 | wow it's soo weird to see asgard CVS change when it's not me canging it :) |
| 01:04.23 | JBDiGriz | It's not just your baby anymore :) |
| 01:04.33 | Patlabor221 | I think that's a good thing |
| 01:04.50 | Patlabor221 | tho now I'm gonna have to take a joystick home to test this thing |
| 01:05.47 | JBDiGriz | But it's hard to see them grow up and go off on their own. |
| 01:06.10 | Patlabor221 | wow, I had 2 USB sticks and didn't know it |
| 01:06.41 | Patlabor221 | captain_proton you ever see a stick with a trackball on it? |
| 01:09.20 | *** join/#bzflag Bags_ (~Bagheera@pool-162-84-20-77.sal.east.verizon.net) |
| 01:09.41 | *** part/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~JeffM@208.48.199.216) |
| 01:11.07 | JBDiGriz | Too many Bagginses :) |
| 01:11.25 | Bags_ | network issues, trying to recover |
| 01:11.28 | Spiff | Shiiiiiiiiire.... Baggins! =) |
| 01:11.32 | *** join/#bzflag Carnage (strayer@dyn216-8-132-243.ADSL.mnsi.net) |
| 01:12.52 | *** join/#bzflag Bagheera (~Bagheera@pool-162-84-20-77.sal.east.verizon.net) |
| 01:13.15 | Bagheera | ok, does anybody know if bagins will just drop, or do i have to do something there as well |
| 01:13.16 | *** join/#bzflag oidussus (Suss@c51448cf8.cable.wanadoo.nl) |
| 01:13.20 | oidussus | can someone come to ducati? |
| 01:13.27 | Spiff | He'll drop eventually. |
| 01:13.39 | MrApathyCream | oidussus, 1.9? |
| 01:13.52 | Spiff | That happened to me once. :) |
| 01:14.01 | oidussus | no. |
| 01:14.01 | JBDiGriz | Eventually it will just drop, especially if it can't access the machine. IRC pings clients to make sure they're alive. |
| 01:14.03 | oidussus | ~d |
| 01:14.17 | oidussus | need for someone to kickban knightmare. |
| 01:14.44 | Spiff | And the jerk rears his ugly head again. Hmm. |
| 01:15.08 | Bagheera | thanks jb |
| 01:15.38 | Bagheera | dang, killer mouse is on another rampage |
| 01:15.57 | Spiff | I don't think that's Killer Mouse... I think it's someone mocking him/her. |
| 01:16.04 | Spiff | Sorta like "Dervish and Spiff are..." etc. |
| 01:16.25 | Bagheera | ....yeah, i dont know killer, so......ran into them earlier today....... |
| 01:16.46 | Bagheera | my admin privl. were not operating.... |
| 01:16.47 | JBDiGriz | I'm not sure, since I've seen someone sign on as Killer Mouse with a cheat client. It may be someone who has a grudge with the player though. |
| 01:17.18 | oidussus | ... |
| 01:17.31 | oidussus | [Killer Mouse,gives BJs for free->] wanna see my latest work?? |
| 01:17.32 | oidussus | [Killer Mouse,gives BJs for free->] the server killer? |
| 01:17.39 | Bagheera | sry oidussus, cant help out there |
| 01:17.42 | Spiff | Well... he was stupid enough to impersonate *me* here... so he may well impersonate others. |
| 01:18.07 | JBDiGriz | It's hard to tell what will amuse idiots. |
| 01:18.08 | Bagheera | yeah, he is working his way through the servers tonight, |
| 01:18.26 | Bagheera | i missed him on secretplace........dang it |
| 01:18.39 | Bagheera | tell me if he goes to xmission....... |
| 01:19.11 | Spiff | xmission seems to have shaped up a bit as of late. |
| 01:19.26 | Spiff | My bro and I played there a while back (on my network) and nobody was rude for a change. |
| 01:19.32 | JBDiGriz | Tim has been appointing a few more admins. |
| 01:20.13 | Spiff | Yep.. good for him! That place was bad for a while. |
| 01:22.39 | Bagheera | bye bye bagins |
| 01:24.28 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~jeffm@adsl-64-172-199-124.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 01:24.28 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 01:27.13 | CIA | 03dbrosius * 12bzflag/include (TextUtils.h): add the ability to limit # of tokens |
| 01:27.37 | Bagheera | secretplace has disappeared again..... |
| 01:27.43 | Bagheera | ~bzflist |
| 01:28.04 | Bagheera | maybe not |
| 01:28.22 | Patlabor221 | shhh it's secret |
| 01:33.18 | JBDiGriz | That's interesting on my deployment build fps on xmission went to 45 fps from 18 fps. :) |
| 01:33.46 | Bagheera | ooooo, that sounds good.......except that even 48 is not great..... |
| 01:34.14 | Bagheera | might want to feed those mice a little more cheese |
| 01:34.19 | JBDiGriz | I'm not sure about your eyes, but 48 is sufficient for mine. ;) |
| 01:34.48 | Bagheera | lol, i used to play like that as well.......then, came a new graphics card |
| 01:35.12 | Spiff | 50fps isn't bad at all.. but is that on a simple map or a complex map? And what graphics card? :) |
| 01:35.25 | Bagheera | xmission he mentioned |
| 01:35.33 | JBDiGriz | xmission 1.9 |
| 01:35.40 | CIA | 03dbrosius * 12bzflag/include (TextUtils.h): better doc |
| 01:35.52 | Bagheera | well, sounds good either way |
| 01:36.03 | Spiff | Ahhh. I think I got like 35-40 on the old one. |
| 01:36.32 | JBDiGriz | I didn't do much besides recompile the client. It was interesting that it made that much difference. |
| 01:37.04 | Bagheera | .....well, if thats the case, someone deserves a free beverage |
| 01:37.34 | Bagheera | maybe the "make" people |
| 01:38.16 | Bagheera | have a nice night all.... |
| 01:38.19 | JBDiGriz | I'll have to check to see if it's the deployment build or the 3.3 gcc compiler. Right now Apple standard is the 3.1 compiler, but they've released a preview. |
| 01:38.33 | JBDiGriz | night, Bags |
| 01:38.59 | Spiff | C-yaz Bagheera. |
| 01:41.48 | JBDiGriz | I'm going to have to retry the tests, I forgot that I was updating another machine in the household, and the network is rather busy. |
| 01:43.22 | CIA | 03dbrosius * 12bzflag/win32 (bzfs.dsp): get debugler seeing variables |
| 01:43.59 | CIA | 03dbw192 * 12bzflag/src/platform/MacOSX/BZFlag.pbproj (project.pbxproj): Update bzfs sources in the mac build. |
| 01:44.11 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (bryjen@ky-owensboro1a-242.owboky.adelphia.net) |
| 01:44.20 | MrApathyCream | er, would put |
| 01:44.29 | Patlabor221 | strings are text too |
| 01:46.46 | *** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@adsl-66-72-31-77.dsl.kntpin.ameritech.net) |
| 01:47.27 | Spiff | LoL |
| 01:47.44 | Noodleman | m00f |
| 01:47.48 | Noodleman | haha |
| 01:47.49 | Patlabor221 | amused at yourself I see |
| 01:48.40 | Spiff | No... I just didn't want to get punched. Noodleman scares me! He could take my head off with those pythons. :-) |
| 01:49.06 | Noodleman | if i could figure out where that python went |
| 01:49.08 | Bagheera | any spanish translators here |
| 01:49.23 | Spiff | Pythons.. on a human... are really big arms. LoL |
| 01:49.27 | Bagheera | nope, ok off to google |
| 01:49.45 | JBDiGriz | You really need learner or asdf for Spanish, but I might be able to help a bit. |
| 01:50.06 | Bagheera | ching gow |
| 01:50.12 | Patlabor221 | I hear google is a good spanish translator |
| 01:50.31 | Bagheera | might be slang |
| 01:50.40 | Bagheera | google doesnt know |
| 01:50.54 | Bagheera | so, i guess its acceptable....because google is god |
| 01:50.59 | JBDiGriz | Is it really a spanish speaker or someone who thinks they know what it means. |
| 01:51.24 | JBDiGriz | Chingar is definitely not an acceptable verb in most polite company |
| 01:51.44 | Bagheera | just checking, someone was "offended"......i think they are just trying to cause trouble |
| 01:52.22 | Bagheera | thought i would give them the benefit of the doubt though |
| 01:52.27 | JBDiGriz | It's close to an offensive saying, but with that spelling it sounds more Chinese than Spanish. |
| 01:53.17 | CIA | 03dbrosius * 12bzflag/src/bzfs (2 files): improved ban to include reason and reasons like 1h by Dennis Pedersen |
| 01:53.19 | *** join/#bzflag creeperz (~creeperz@host-11-76-220-24.midco.net) |
| 01:53.21 | Bagheera | yeah, that was my first reaction |
| 01:53.40 | Bagheera | oh well. thnx for the help |
| 01:53.43 | Patlabor221 | basicly you were told to go stuff it |
| 01:53.47 | *** part/#bzflag creeperz (~creeperz@host-11-76-220-24.midco.net) |
| 01:54.06 | CIA | 03dbrosius * 12bzflag/ (ChangeLog): credits |
| 01:54.27 | Bagheera | hahah, would be the first time |
| 01:54.35 | bryjen | 1h ? |
| 01:54.44 | JBDiGriz | Hey Bags, go stuff it (for the 2nd time) :) |
| 01:55.06 | Bagheera | ok, i get the point......i think, i never really do |
| 01:55.20 | Patlabor221 | I wonder what Sr. Creepy keeps looking for and not finding here. |
| 01:55.40 | bryjen | a clue? ;) |
| 01:55.50 | Patlabor221 | he should know we don't keep those here |
| 01:55.50 | Bagheera | havent seen that callsign in a while |
| 01:55.53 | Patlabor221 | they are locked up |
| 01:56.08 | MrApathyCream | 1d2h |
| 01:56.09 | MrApathyCream | ban length |
| 01:56.14 | MrApathyCream | 1 day 2 hours |
| 01:56.23 | bryjen | ah |
| 01:56.30 | bryjen | thanks MAC |
| 01:56.38 | MrApathyCream | rather than counting in seconds |
| 01:58.04 | bryjen | Ieeeeeeeeeee! |
| 01:58.30 | Quol | you should have let it smash on the ground Patlabor221 :) not much worth saving |
| 01:59.00 | Patlabor221 | no, I'm taking it higher up to ensure it's destoyed |
| 01:59.04 | Patlabor221 | your window isn't high enough |
| 01:59.07 | bryjen | telekinesis as well as telepathy? |
| 01:59.09 | Quol | every time I play BZ now, my CPU hits 100% and everything is soo verrrrrrrrryyyy ju----mmm----py |
| 01:59.18 | Patlabor221 | no, jetpack :) |
| 01:59.24 | Quol | it is JBDiGriz - it is :) |
| 01:59.53 | Quol | lol Patlabor221 - lol |
| 02:00.04 | JBDiGriz | hi q |
| 02:00.13 | Quol | hey JB - what's up |
| 02:00.47 | JBDiGriz | Playing around with optimization on the mac build. It looks like I can double performance with a simple tweak, but I'm verifying. |
| 02:00.57 | Bagheera | quol, what rock did you crawl out from |
| 02:01.08 | Spiff | Wow.. Quol is back. :-) Hehehe. |
| 02:01.23 | Quol | Bagheera?? what do you mean? the rock over there |
| 02:01.24 | Bagheera | ooo, wait thats a computer....looks like a rock |
| 02:01.38 | Quol | ahhh - I get it now |
| 02:01.58 | Quol | sorry - I am slllloooowwww today- my PC is rubing off on me |
| 02:02.10 | Quol | hello Spiffy |
| 02:02.19 | Quol | who's up for some V madness? |
| 02:02.46 | Bagheera | V? |
| 02:02.57 | Quol | high Speed - sorry |
| 02:03.25 | bryjen | i prefer slow, creeping, madness ;) |
| 02:03.48 | Quol | come on bryjen - let's get crazy tonight :) |
| 02:04.32 | bryjen | ok, any other takers? |
| 02:04.35 | *** join/#bzflag cniV (~kchan@c211-29-162-104.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 02:04.54 | triclops | hey Vinc |
| 02:04.59 | Quol | spiffy - feel like a beating? |
| 02:05.00 | cniV | hello |
| 02:05.13 | Spiff | Hmm.. sure. |
| 02:05.18 | Spiff | But only 'cause it's you guys. :-) |
| 02:05.57 | JBDiGriz | I'll be wandering around the 1.9 servers. |
| 02:06.51 | Spiff | C'mon IRC guys... let's *all* play. :) |
| 02:07.31 | triclops | including CIA, ChanServ and ibot? |
| 02:08.03 | cniV | brb |
| 02:08.13 | *** join/#bzflag cniV (~kchan@c211-29-162-104.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 02:10.20 | JBDiGriz | gcc 3.1 devel build 22 fps - gcc 3.1 deploy build 95 fps - gcc 3.3 deploy build 100 fps :) |
| 02:10.36 | JBDiGriz | I think optimization helps a lot :D |
| 02:10.59 | Quol | sorry - had to step out there for a minute - we playing? |
| 02:13.20 | CIA | 03dbrosius * 12bzflag/ (2 files in 2 dirs): split out parseDuration for further use |
| 02:13.41 | *** join/#bzflag SGI_ (~SGI@bgp01036956bgs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 02:15.32 | MrApathyCream | bbiab |
| 02:16.32 | SGI_ | hi quol |
| 02:20.14 | SGI_ | whois sgi |
| 02:22.41 | SGI_ | arg |
| 02:22.46 | JBDiGriz | Losing your memory is the second sign of senility, sgi :) |
| 02:22.58 | SGI_ | I hate password |
| 02:23.09 | SGI_ | I lost my password ..again |
| 02:23.37 | SGI_ | I cant login with my nick because I lost my pswd |
| 02:23.44 | SGI_ | arg |
| 02:23.56 | JBDiGriz | IRC or one of the servers? |
| 02:24.05 | SGI_ | ...probably I have the senility |
| 02:24.10 | SGI_ | here |
| 02:24.36 | Patlabor221 | you don't HAVE to register |
| 02:24.37 | SGI_ | I wrote down for the bzflag server |
| 02:25.11 | JBDiGriz | You should be able to get in touch with the IRC admins and they'll handle it. |
| 02:25.24 | SGI_ | I did 5' ago |
| 02:25.39 | SGI_ | I lost the pswd for SF last month |
| 02:25.46 | SGI_ | now this one |
| 02:25.56 | SGI_ | in the office a couple times |
| 02:26.00 | JBDiGriz | Then don't worry about it until you hear back. You can use your nick, you just won't be identified. |
| 02:26.00 | *** join/#bzflag hans (~fugalh@128.187.246.176) |
| 02:26.02 | SGI_ | I hate pswd |
| 02:26.18 | SGI_ | no I cant ....is used |
| 02:26.22 | SGI_ | ntry |
| 02:26.25 | SGI_ | try |
| 02:26.42 | Patlabor221 | somone ganked it? that's funny |
| 02:27.00 | JBDiGriz | According to the nickserv, SGI isn't registered |
| 02:27.02 | SGI_ | ganked???? |
| 02:27.11 | SGI_ | I did last week |
| 02:27.28 | JBDiGriz | I just checked it a second ago. |
| 02:27.40 | SGI_ | let me register |
| 02:27.44 | Noodleman | did you check SGI_ or SGI? |
| 02:27.50 | JBDiGriz | SGI |
| 02:27.56 | SGI_ | I login with SGI- |
| 02:28.02 | SGI_ | SGI_ |
| 02:28.23 | SGI_ | this is SGI |
| 02:28.27 | Patlabor221 | gank: noun. gah*hank : To steal, pilfer, and/or rip the hell off, rapidly or without the owners knowlege of the envent. entemology latn. ganerous: to younk. |
| 02:28.42 | JBDiGriz | It's not listing registration for any of those. the command is "/msg nickserv info <nick>" |
| 02:28.42 | SGI_ | thanks ibot |
| 02:28.48 | hans | this ai class is writing bzflag bots (modified bzflag) http://students.cs.byu.edu/~cs470ta/labs/PfieldsLab.html |
| 02:29.22 | SGI_ | that is whois SGI |
| 02:29.29 | Patlabor221 | your teaching a class with BZ? |
| 02:29.45 | hans | not teaching (I took it when they used a different, 2d, home-grown ctf server) |
| 02:29.53 | Patlabor221 | I see |
| 02:29.58 | hans | wishing I was taking it this time instead, though |
| 02:30.28 | hans | I've seen several fizzled attempts at making bots, thought this might be of interest |
| 02:30.46 | hans | incidentally I'd be interested if you know of serious bot frameworks |
| 02:30.59 | SGI_ | btw Patlabor211 I downloaded the BZflag CVS and the old 17g2 didnt find the server |
| 02:31.25 | Patlabor221 | BZ is not set up well for bots, tho 1.9.x has made some progress on that |
| 02:31.33 | JBDiGriz | Who is the professor for that course? |
| 02:31.36 | hans | they have some interesting hacks to observer mode |
| 02:31.42 | Patlabor221 | tim moved it, some clients can see it, some can't don't know why |
| 02:31.48 | hans | Salvador Gutierrez |
| 02:31.51 | Patlabor221 | works for me |
| 02:32.11 | SGI_ | in the office all team cant see the server |
| 02:32.20 | Patlabor221 | dono man |
| 02:32.30 | Patlabor221 | you may have a proxy DNS or something that hasn't updated |
| 02:32.38 | SGI_ | load in all machine the new one........ |
| 02:32.57 | SGI_ | no is intranet |
| 02:33.13 | Patlabor221 | ohh G2 has no lan discovery |
| 02:33.18 | Patlabor221 | was ganked |
| 02:33.29 | SGI_ | a network inside the company |
| 02:33.30 | Patlabor221 | just type in the addy |
| 02:33.36 | Patlabor221 | that would be a lan |
| 02:33.49 | SGI_ | a kind |
| 02:34.05 | Patlabor221 | G2 has no lan discovery |
| 02:34.12 | Patlabor221 | if it's not public it's NFG |
| 02:34.16 | Patlabor221 | so just put in the addy |
| 02:34.52 | SGI_ | addy |
| 02:34.56 | Patlabor221 | address |
| 02:35.08 | Patlabor221 | the IP of the local server your running. |
| 02:35.13 | SGI_ | I did |
| 02:35.47 | Patlabor221 | and if it's a compatable version it should connect |
| 02:36.03 | Patlabor221 | 1.9.xx servers are not compatable with 1.7 |
| 02:36.05 | SGI_ | I did IP address:port |
| 02:36.23 | SGI_ | ok |
| 02:36.32 | Patlabor221 | g2 will not connect to 1.9 |
| 02:36.36 | Patlabor221 | no mater what you type |
| 02:36.40 | Patlabor221 | never has, never will |
| 02:36.43 | SGI_ | perfect |
| 02:37.18 | SGI_ | the older versionof bz they can see the 1.7 |
| 02:37.23 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 02:37.27 | Patlabor221 | that is how it should be |
| 02:37.32 | Patlabor221 | old for old, new for new |
| 02:37.44 | Patlabor221 | it would be silly to show a client, servers it can not play on. |
| 02:37.46 | SGI_ | yes this is another problem we found |
| 02:37.56 | Patlabor221 | it's a feature, not a problem. |
| 02:38.12 | SGI_ | Im running a 1,7 and the other peoplethey cant see the server |
| 02:38.20 | Patlabor221 | what version are they running? |
| 02:38.57 | SGI_ | I need to check...unix SGI machine probably never update from '91 |
| 02:39.32 | Patlabor221 | if G2 is involved in anyway, it won't auto find any servers on a lan, just internet public ones |
| 02:39.34 | SGI_ | they need to type a long strng |
| 02:39.40 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 02:39.47 | *** part/#bzflag bryjen (bryjen@ky-owensboro1a-242.owboky.adelphia.net) |
| 02:39.49 | Patlabor221 | cus G2 does not do lan discovery |
| 02:40.05 | SGI_ | ahhhh got it |
| 02:40.06 | Patlabor221 | Ip in the address field, port in the port part |
| 02:40.19 | SGI_ | yes it is |
| 02:42.22 | SGI_ | -publicaddr 19.40.more numbers I dont remember:5155 |
| 02:42.31 | Patlabor221 | ok |
| 02:42.54 | SGI_ | only people with pc WINXP the can see the server |
| 02:43.01 | SGI_ | they |
| 02:43.11 | Patlabor221 | I'd update them all |
| 02:43.25 | Patlabor221 | you probably got non compatable versions |
| 02:43.42 | SGI_ | the "SGI" |
| 02:44.11 | Patlabor221 | so update it |
| 02:44.48 | SGI_ | there is a problem with the "guy" admins .........fear |
| 02:44.59 | SGI_ | to update the machine |
| 02:45.09 | Patlabor221 | then tell them to "shuddap" |
| 02:45.35 | SGI_ | I tried but he wasnt really ...lol |
| 02:46.09 | SGI_ | and is funny because the login with aroot passwd and is the same for all admins |
| 02:47.18 | SGI_ | just a year and all SGI machine ...going to the garbage can ....... |
| 02:47.31 | SGI_ | and all pcs for everyone |
| 02:47.37 | Patlabor221 | so is the way of tech, evolve or die |
| 02:47.57 | SGI_ | less $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |
| 02:48.46 | SGI_ | powerful graphic card , cpu, memory ...but instable |
| 02:48.50 | SGI_ | crash a lot |
| 02:49.15 | SGI_ | SGI........run forever |
| 02:49.34 | SGI_ | but ...to old and to many $$$$$$$$$$ |
| 02:51.08 | JBDiGriz | Are they selling the old SGI machines? |
| 02:51.31 | SGI_ | ebay |
| 02:51.41 | SGI_ | which..indigo |
| 02:51.59 | JBDiGriz | I'll check it out. Any Octanes or O2's? |
| 02:52.02 | SGI_ | octane2 |
| 02:52.18 | SGI_ | ebay |
| 02:52.21 | JBDiGriz | That's a nice machine. |
| 02:52.32 | SGI_ | yeah ...muahhhhhhhhhhhhh |
| 02:52.51 | Spiff | Well.. that could've been the Great IRC Throwdown.. part 2. :-) |
| 02:53.12 | SGI_ | now are there in the "corner" sitting ...... |
| 02:53.36 | SGI_ | hi Spiff |
| 02:53.54 | Spiff | Hi, SGI. :-D |
| 02:53.54 | JBDiGriz | $1425, but no bids so far. I'll keep an eye on it. :) |
| 02:54.47 | SGI_ | for 02 |
| 02:54.54 | SGI_ | O2 |
| 02:55.32 | SGI_ | that is was a great server "eheh lol" for bz ...... |
| 02:55.53 | SGI_ | running 24/7 365/366 |
| 02:56.15 | Patlabor221 | grrrrrrrrr the utill lib is missing a file :( |
| 02:56.36 | SGI_ | from who |
| 02:56.56 | Patlabor221 | JBDiGriz you didn't pull any files did you? |
| 02:57.14 | JBDiGriz | I haven't logged in yet. |
| 02:57.27 | Patlabor221 | then that would be a no :) |
| 02:57.43 | Patlabor221 | I musta forgot to add it |
| 02:57.45 | Patlabor221 | damn |
| 02:58.05 | Patlabor221 | test app won't build with out it :( |
| 03:00.38 | JBDiGriz | I'm going to add the mac keyboard fix to the 1.7 build. I'm getting tired of hitting that bug when playing. |
| 03:02.46 | Patlabor221 | they keydown thing? |
| 03:03.17 | JBDiGriz | the uninitialized data thing. |
| 03:03.49 | Patlabor221 | ahh |
| 03:09.32 | JBDiGriz | ok, I've logged in now, so I no longer have that excuse :) |
| 03:09.45 | Patlabor221 | heh |
| 03:13.42 | Patlabor221 | realy bugs me that I forgot a file |
| 03:14.20 | JBDiGriz | That reminds me, I'd better grab SDL. |
| 03:21.10 | *** join/#bzflag Noodleman_ (~tuckerm@adsl-66-72-31-77.dsl.kntpin.ameritech.net) |
| 03:27.05 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~jeffm@adsl-64-172-199-124.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:27.05 | *** join/#bzflag cniV (~kchan@c211-29-162-104.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:27.05 | *** join/#bzflag triclops (~triclops@203-219-160-62-nsw.tpgi.com.au) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:27.05 | *** join/#bzflag captain_proton (~blardebla@home-dhcp6-158.colorado.edu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:27.05 | *** mode/#bzflag [+oo Patlabor221 captain_proton] by tolkien.freenode.net |
| 03:27.05 | *** mode/#bzflag [+bbb *cell*!*@* *!*@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net *sussudio*!*@*] by jordan.freenode.net |
| 03:27.05 | *** mode/#bzflag [+bb *gorb*!*@* *!*@68.111.116.228] by jordan.freenode.net |
| 03:27.09 | *** join/#bzflag STE_aka_SGI (~SGI@bgp01036956bgs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 03:27.36 | Patlabor221 | wow |
| 03:27.39 | Patlabor221 | what a rush |
| 03:27.48 | triclops | rofl |
| 03:27.57 | Patlabor221 | you don't like Gum? |
| 03:28.18 | Spiff | Orbitz.. the travel site. |
| 03:28.25 | Spiff | Good prices.. pfffff. Yeah right. |
| 03:28.28 | Patlabor221 | you don't like the mini golf game |
| 03:28.36 | Patlabor221 | then don't go there |
| 03:28.53 | Spiff | I won't.. not after that. :) |
| 03:29.07 | Patlabor221 | there see, problem solved |
| 03:29.13 | Patlabor221 | that'll be $25USD please |
| 03:29.17 | STE_aka_SGI | good nite guys |
| 03:29.56 | MrApathyCream | tech support,again , pat? |
| 03:30.01 | Spiff | C-ya SGI. :-) |
| 03:30.04 | Patlabor221 | nope |
| 03:30.10 | Patlabor221 | this is just blood money |
| 03:30.15 | Spiff | He's charging a consultation fee now. ;) |
| 03:30.42 | Patlabor221 | gotta have money for the blood |
| 03:31.59 | Patlabor221 | I think he had his run |
| 03:32.44 | *** kick/#bzflag [Spiff!~jeffm@adsl-64-172-199-124.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net] by Patlabor221 (Keep it clean!!!) |
| 03:32.46 | CIA | 03dbrosius * 12bzflag/win32 (common.dsp): BzfString.h is still holden on? |
| 03:32.53 | MrApathyCream | nope, nothin' |
| 03:34.09 | *** join/#bzflag Spiff (~Spiff@12-223-213-142.client.insightbb.com) |
| 03:35.11 | Spiff | Looks like someone just learned how to use the kick button. ;-) |
| 03:35.32 | Patlabor221 | ohh no, I fully know how to use it. Been trained and everything |
| 03:35.52 | Spiff | Okay... so.. you're highly trained-ness... how do I turn on "Auto Join" in X-Chat? :) |
| 03:36.04 | Spiff | LoL |
| 03:36.07 | Noodleman | in the server list |
| 03:36.09 | Patlabor221 | it's in the prefes somewhere |
| 03:36.16 | Patlabor221 | like join on kick or something |
| 03:36.20 | Noodleman | go to the server you want to change settings for |
| 03:36.50 | Spiff | There's only an "Auto connect at startup" option.. the rest is proxy stuff, global user info, etc. |
| 03:37.05 | Noodleman | i thought that's what you wanted |
| 03:37.07 | Patlabor221 | it's not with the server stuff IIRC |
| 03:37.14 | Patlabor221 | no rejoin on kick |
| 03:37.17 | Spiff | Bah. Okies then. :-) |
| 03:37.22 | Patlabor221 | not autojoin on start |
| 03:38.14 | Spiff | It's not in Settings-Preferences either. |
| 03:38.37 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor2221 (~JeffM@adsl-64-172-199-124.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 03:39.01 | Patlabor221 | IRC menu |
| 03:39.11 | Patlabor221 | AUto rejoin when kicked |
| 03:39.21 | Spiff | Ohh.. okies. |
| 03:39.27 | *** kick/#bzflag [Patlabor2221!~jeffm@adsl-64-172-199-124.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net] by Patlabor221 (BOOOOOYA!) |
| 03:39.27 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor2221 (~JeffM@adsl-64-172-199-124.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 03:39.34 | Patlabor221 | see |
| 03:39.44 | Spiff | Bah... that's confusing.. but ok. :) |
| 03:39.49 | Noodleman | yeah |
| 03:39.53 | Noodleman | that's it |
| 03:40.21 | Spiff | How about we all join as "Patlabor 22221" and "Patlabor 222221"... LoL. |
| 03:40.28 | Spiff | Then you can kick us to illustrate. |
| 03:40.32 | Spiff | Maybe that would make it more clear. :) |
| 03:40.45 | Patlabor221 | it's ok, I am perfectly capable of banning every sinlgle one of you :) |
| 03:41.05 | Spiff | Psssst... I think he missed the sarcasm. ;-) |
| 03:41.12 | Patlabor221 | or report you all to the server op as bots, and get you Klined |
| 03:41.13 | Patlabor221 | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:41.29 | Patlabor221 | no no, I saw it |
| 03:41.53 | Spiff | Ahhh nevermind. That was sarcasm on top of sarcasm. :-) |
| 03:42.04 | Patlabor221 | he can be tought |
| 03:42.30 | Spiff | Forget flying. I'd have to rent a car anyway. |
| 03:42.32 | Patlabor221 | that's illegal in your state |
| 03:43.51 | Noodleman | what do you mean by that Patlabor221? |
| 03:44.00 | Patlabor221 | hugging mapquest :) |
| 03:44.12 | Spiff | http://www.mapquest.com/mqproxy/3f7a4d73-00299-05b0d-400c3305 |
| 03:44.12 | Noodleman | ah |
| 03:44.14 | Spiff | Does that work for you? |
| 03:44.20 | Noodleman | not flying |
| 03:44.24 | Noodleman | got it :-) |
| 03:44.24 | Spiff | Bummer. |
| 03:44.27 | Patlabor221 | tho he can't rent a car anway, he can just be put on as a driver |
| 03:44.43 | Patlabor221 | tho some may not even let him do that |
| 03:44.53 | Patlabor221 | for when your 25? |
| 03:45.11 | Spiff | I hafta be 18 or have parental consent before I take off anyway. |
| 03:45.25 | Patlabor221 | and you can't rent a car till your 25 |
| 03:45.31 | Spiff | I prefer to wait until I'm 18.. 'cause I know my parents aren't going to let me go on a road trip. |
| 03:45.34 | Spiff | Hotels are like 19, right? |
| 03:45.45 | Patlabor221 | depeneds |
| 03:45.47 | Patlabor221 | often 21 |
| 03:45.51 | Spiff | That's true. Lots are 21. |
| 03:45.52 | Patlabor221 | somtimes 18 |
| 03:46.05 | Spiff | I'll hafta do a lil' research on where I'm gonna stay. |
| 03:46.43 | Patlabor221 | I drove a rental car to yellowstone when I was 15 |
| 03:46.54 | Spiff | 1498.85 miles - Estimated driving time 26 hours, 33 minutes. |
| 03:47.01 | Patlabor221 | to where? |
| 03:47.11 | Spiff | McAllen. |
| 03:47.23 | Spiff | I have about another 300 miles beyond that into Mexico tho. |
| 03:47.24 | Patlabor221 | where is that? |
| 03:47.32 | Spiff | Texas.. like right on the border. |
| 03:47.50 | Patlabor221 | ahhh texas where they have the hitler band festivals |
| 03:48.17 | Spiff | I don't care much about Texas. But MapQuest won't plan a trip accross the border. Communists! |
| 03:48.39 | Patlabor221 | umm have you seen the roads in mexico? |
| 03:48.56 | Spiff | Yes.. ages and ages ago. :) |
| 03:49.06 | Patlabor221 | they got worse |
| 03:49.07 | Noodleman | maybe they just are afraid you will get montezuma's revenge or get thrown in jail for spitting on the sidewalk |
| 03:49.26 | Spiff | Hmm.. good point, Noodleman. ;-) |
| 03:49.50 | Spiff | But ya see, Patlabor... they have maps of the roads in Mexico (the big ones)... they just don't allow me to plan a trip from NC to Tampico. |
| 03:49.53 | Patlabor221 | yeah they love white boys in jail down there, they pay a lot to get out |
| 03:50.19 | Spiff | It is either all in the US.. or you plan to drive to the border... and guesstimate from there on in. |
| 03:50.32 | Patlabor221 | try mapquest.mx |
| 03:50.34 | Patlabor221 | or something |
| 03:50.36 | Spiff | Pfff. Have a little guts. :) |
| 03:51.26 | Patlabor221 | ? |
| 03:51.43 | CIA | 03dbrosius * 12bzflag/ (3 files in 2 dirs): add /reset var server cmd |
| 03:51.48 | Spiff | Mapquest.mx is not valid. Blah. |
| 03:52.03 | Spiff | You're talking about being thrown in jail already. What? Ya think I'm going down there to party or something? |
| 03:52.08 | Spiff | :-) |
| 03:52.18 | Patlabor221 | it don't mater why your down there :) |
| 03:52.59 | Spiff | Well.. first.. I'm not a boy.. I'm a man. :P Second.. I'm not gonna spit on any sidewalks. ;-) |
| 03:53.00 | Spiff | LoL |
| 03:53.16 | Patlabor221 | you shall see |
| 03:53.31 | Spiff | As shall you. |
| 03:53.46 | Spiff | Oh yeah... and third.. I'm not going for a while. |
| 03:53.49 | Patlabor221 | ever driven thru it? |
| 03:53.56 | Spiff | I'll pry just wait until I'm 21. :-) |
| 03:54.00 | Spiff | Noperz. |
| 03:54.14 | Patlabor221 | driving in mexico is "interesting" |
| 03:54.23 | Spiff | I've been through some mighty odd places tho... doesn't bother me. :) |
| 03:55.31 | Noodleman | the most remote place i ever drove was state highway 140 in northern nevada |
| 03:55.42 | Noodleman | it was quite an experience :-) |
| 03:55.44 | Patlabor221 | mexico is not remote |
| 03:56.07 | Noodleman | the RV could barely make it up those really steep hills |
| 03:56.21 | Noodleman | crapped out a couple times |
| 03:56.40 | Spiff | I'm going to buy the crappiest looking car you've ever seen before I go though... one that nobody would want to nick. LoL |
| 03:56.49 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 03:57.01 | Noodleman | spray paint it |
| 03:57.12 | Spiff | Yep.. I'm gonna. Maybe like cammo or something nasty.. hehe. |
| 03:57.25 | Spiff | I would spray paint it like "willy-worm" green.. but they'd pry like that. :) |
| 03:57.26 | Noodleman | machine gun |
| 03:57.34 | Noodleman | be careful where you shoot tho :-) |
| 03:57.38 | MrApathyCream | get a body wrap for it from playtex |
| 03:57.46 | Spiff | Hehehe |
| 03:58.18 | Spiff | OoOo.. I've got it! I'll spraypaint Spongebob on the hood! ;-) |
| 03:58.34 | Noodleman | no one would dare come near it then |
| 03:58.34 | MrApathyCream | who's for postin' this puppy on sf, and see wha happens? |
| 03:58.57 | Patlabor221 | total disregard for testing? |
| 03:59.02 | Patlabor221 | does it even build yet? |
| 03:59.02 | MrApathyCream | yes |
| 03:59.05 | MrApathyCream | total |
| 03:59.10 | MrApathyCream | of course it builds |
| 03:59.14 | Patlabor221 | wow you must not give a rats ass about this project then |
| 03:59.18 | Patlabor221 | it didn't yesterday |
| 03:59.30 | MrApathyCream | nope, just want to ship it |
| 03:59.38 | MrApathyCream | let the users test :) |
| 04:00.05 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 04:00.29 | Patlabor221 | we had planed to get another test build out to the 3 people in the comunity who are not vicously bickering over stupid things. |
| 04:00.49 | MrApathyCream | yay, that was a week ago |
| 04:00.56 | MrApathyCream | so since no one is.... |
| 04:01.00 | Patlabor221 | and it hasn't built since then |
| 04:01.14 | Patlabor221 | I don't think it built on linux even this AM |
| 04:01.16 | MrApathyCream | its build every day |
| 04:01.16 | Patlabor221 | missing files |
| 04:01.19 | Patlabor221 | for you |
| 04:01.21 | MrApathyCream | at least for win32 |
| 04:01.30 | Patlabor221 | they have had makefull and distro issues |
| 04:01.31 | MrApathyCream | well it is the BZFlag dev platform of choice |
| 04:01.54 | Patlabor221 | if you want to do a build, then bump, tag, and make |
| 04:02.16 | MrApathyCream | are you planning on making the installer auto timestamp/version |
| 04:02.17 | Patlabor221 | then con some other people into making the other plats |
| 04:02.23 | Patlabor221 | I don't know how |
| 04:02.31 | MrApathyCream | ok |
| 04:02.39 | Patlabor221 | so I just manualy do it |
| 04:02.45 | MrApathyCream | ok |
| 04:02.55 | Patlabor221 | just tag the line as 1.9.4 |
| 04:03.00 | Patlabor221 | well bump the version |
| 04:03.05 | Patlabor221 | tag the tree |
| 04:03.07 | MrApathyCream | all these *nix geniouses, and noone can build on unix? |
| 04:03.11 | Patlabor221 | then get us all to build |
| 04:03.16 | MrApathyCream | that's pathetic |
| 04:03.25 | Patlabor221 | then we can post it in the testing place |
| 04:03.33 | Patlabor221 | and hope some people will use it |
| 04:03.34 | MrApathyCream | what testing place? |
| 04:03.45 | Patlabor221 | www.bakadigital.com/BZ/19 |
| 04:03.49 | MrApathyCream | ah |
| 04:04.17 | Patlabor221 | if noone has any issues then bump to 1.10 and get all the packages |
| 04:04.35 | Patlabor221 | but just posting to SF with out even a short test is just supid in my opition |
| 04:04.38 | Noodleman | i think i'm gonna go to bed early tonight |
| 04:04.40 | Noodleman | l8r |
| 04:04.46 | Patlabor221 | when you have only looked at one platform |
| 04:05.14 | MrApathyCream | well, if there's no unix boxes in the qa department, there's not much else to do |
| 04:05.34 | Patlabor221 | some people run linux |
| 04:05.34 | cniV | hmmm |
| 04:05.40 | Patlabor221 | and most servers run linux |
| 04:05.42 | cniV | lemme co |
| 04:05.42 | MrApathyCream | there's apparently not in qa |
| 04:05.57 | Patlabor221 | so just shoving it out isn't the solution |
| 04:06.09 | MrApathyCream | the other option is letting it die |
| 04:06.19 | Patlabor221 | no the other option is makeing people test it |
| 04:06.27 | Spiff | Noodleman... what if I painted the car like this? http://cegullah.bakadigital.com/Car.jpg |
| 04:06.32 | Patlabor221 | you know the one that takes work |
| 04:06.38 | MrApathyCream | captain_proton has the fist hat |
| 04:06.48 | Spiff | Oh.. he left. |
| 04:06.49 | Patlabor221 | he's gone |
| 04:06.57 | Spiff | What do you guys think of that car? LoL |
| 04:07.03 | Patlabor221 | very very lame |
| 04:07.11 | Spiff | I don't think it'd get stolen. ;-) |
| 04:07.21 | Patlabor221 | the project is presently in a state where if you want to se something happen then you have to just do it |
| 04:07.28 | Patlabor221 | let them say no later |
| 04:07.44 | Patlabor221 | but unless you want to drive more people away, a bad version can't be released |
| 04:08.02 | Patlabor221 | the list server has allready messed up enough people |
| 04:08.06 | MrApathyCream | ok, i guess i'll wait a few more months then |
| 04:08.20 | MrApathyCream | and keep addin' stuff for my own amusement |
| 04:08.22 | Patlabor221 | so you don't want to take action? just sugetst things and wait? |
| 04:08.38 | MrApathyCream | yup |
| 04:08.52 | Patlabor221 | makes soo much sense |
| 04:08.55 | Spiff | Why not just forget BZ dev alltogether? :) |
| 04:08.56 | MrApathyCream | i've done all i can do |
| 04:09.30 | Patlabor221 | I've tried to get people motivated, but I don't see what to get them motivated fore |
| 04:09.46 | Patlabor221 | the comunity is stagnating as is the game |
| 04:09.50 | Spiff | Well... the community as a whole seems to be pretty much dead. |
| 04:09.54 | MrApathyCream | must be hard to motivate others when your not motivated |
| 04:10.16 | Patlabor221 | I was for a bit, till I saw how few people there were who were waiting for the game |
| 04:10.32 | Patlabor221 | dosnt' quite make it worth it |
| 04:10.40 | MrApathyCream | i do it for myself |
| 04:10.50 | MrApathyCream | i don't care if there's anyone there, really |
| 04:10.50 | Patlabor221 | then ship it to yourself :) |
| 04:11.05 | MrApathyCream | done! |
| 04:11.19 | Patlabor221 | call it the SuperMac Special :) |
| 04:11.31 | MrApathyCream | SuperMac....shudder |
| 04:11.38 | Spiff | How about BigMac? |
| 04:11.46 | MrApathyCream | mmmm burgers |
| 04:11.51 | triclops | MacFlag |
| 04:11.52 | Spiff | My thought exactly. |
| 04:12.10 | Spiff | My eating hours got all messed up today. |
| 04:12.22 | Spiff | Looks like I'm going to be getting another bowl of Honey Nut Cheerio's soon. ;-) |
| 04:12.27 | Patlabor221 | man I do really hope the missing files are at work |
| 04:13.04 | Patlabor221 | reallly, the upgraded you to 2 bowls a night? musta done something good :) |
| 04:13.18 | Spiff | Gee tri.. you've been so quiet that I didnt' see you. :-) |
| 04:14.02 | Spiff | Well I have my own PC now.. so "they" get to use the other one.. that pry made them do it. ;-) |
| 04:14.43 | Patlabor221 | how far did you get in the tutorials? |
| 04:15.36 | triclops | Spiff: i sit at the bottom of the user list lurking for the right moment to interject |
| 04:15.37 | Spiff | I went over the first "lesson" a few times.. to be sure I could make a multiplication app and "HelloWorld" without reading. LoL |
| 04:15.51 | Spiff | OoOo... a bottom feeder. :-) |
| 04:16.27 | Spiff | I'm trying to restrict myself to one "lesson" ever few hours.. that way I don't get a ton of info in my head at once and start mixing things up. |
| 04:16.30 | triclops | you could say that i guess :) |
| 04:16.32 | MrApathyCream | sorry triclops, but gonkulator has the title of lurker |
| 04:16.47 | cniV | hmmm |
| 04:16.47 | MrApathyCream | 'king of the lurkers' |
| 04:16.56 | Spiff | Who is gonkulator anyway? Does he use any other names? |
| 04:17.10 | MrApathyCream | brandon? |
| 04:17.11 | triclops | i've seen his name change every now and then |
| 04:17.15 | cniV | the cvs version right now compiles fine here under linux |
| 04:17.21 | MrApathyCream | of course! |
| 04:17.24 | Patlabor221 | ahh good |
| 04:17.27 | MrApathyCream | no doubt |
| 04:17.32 | Patlabor221 | learner musta added all his files |
| 04:17.40 | Patlabor221 | for a wile even Tim could not build |
| 04:17.57 | Patlabor221 | so bump and Tag |
| 04:17.59 | MrApathyCream | i doubt he really tried |
| 04:17.59 | triclops | was that anon? |
| 04:18.09 | Patlabor221 | he pasted the errors here |
| 04:18.12 | MrApathyCream | he has reduced himself to ws checkins |
| 04:18.13 | Patlabor221 | I think he tried |
| 04:18.39 | cniV | 1.9.4 soon? |
| 04:18.48 | MrApathyCream | whenever Patlabor221 gets off his arse |
| 04:18.48 | Patlabor221 | if it builds I don't see why not |
| 04:18.53 | Patlabor221 | I can't tag |
| 04:18.59 | Patlabor221 | don't know how |
| 04:19.04 | MrApathyCream | scanline does |
| 04:19.04 | Patlabor221 | I'll build windows installers |
| 04:19.14 | MrApathyCream | scanline: you here? |
| 04:19.17 | Patlabor221 | so does learner and jbd |
| 04:19.26 | Patlabor221 | and chestal and Tim |
| 04:19.36 | triclops | man cvs? |
| 04:19.47 | Patlabor221 | we don't use linux |
| 04:19.57 | Patlabor221 | and I don't use a command line tool for CVS |
| 04:20.06 | MrApathyCream | i do |
| 04:20.10 | MrApathyCream | but don't know the command |
| 04:20.16 | cniV | cvs tag <tag> |
| 04:20.26 | MrApathyCream | really |
| 04:20.31 | MrApathyCream | cvs tag 1.9.4 |
| 04:20.31 | MrApathyCream | ? |
| 04:20.42 | cniV | should do it |
| 04:20.46 | Patlabor221 | actualy it looks like I can tag with a right click |
| 04:20.47 | Patlabor221 | one sec |
| 04:20.52 | cniV | heh |
| 04:21.03 | cniV | hmmm |
| 04:21.15 | cniV | hopefully i'll get the karmasystem working within the fortnight |
| 04:21.28 | Patlabor221 | your doing karama? |
| 04:21.31 | cniV | yup |
| 04:21.38 | Patlabor221 | the way tim wants it? |
| 04:21.42 | cniV | yup |
| 04:21.46 | Patlabor221 | with centeral logins? |
| 04:21.50 | cniV | yup |
| 04:21.52 | Patlabor221 | you have a spec? |
| 04:21.54 | cniV | and authentication |
| 04:21.56 | cniV | not really |
| 04:22.03 | MrApathyCream | spec, hahaha |
| 04:22.05 | Patlabor221 | perhaps you should make one ? |
| 04:22.06 | MrApathyCream | good one |
| 04:22.10 | cniV | we just talked for a while |
| 04:22.26 | Patlabor221 | the project is doomed if shit keeps going in like that |
| 04:22.30 | MrApathyCream | did tag work? |
| 04:22.32 | Patlabor221 | noone will know how it works cept you |
| 04:22.41 | cniV | i'll spec it once it semi works |
| 04:22.41 | Patlabor221 | nope |
| 04:22.43 | Patlabor221 | craped out |
| 04:22.51 | cniV | i'll shove it on the wiki |
| 04:22.58 | MrApathyCream | cvs [tag aborted]: tag `1.9.4' must start with a letter |
| 04:23.04 | triclops | try cvs tag v1_9_4 maybe to keep with the trend |
| 04:23.13 | cniV | cvs tag release-1-9-4 |
| 04:23.19 | cniV | thats my convention |
| 04:23.20 | Patlabor221 | well the entire reason I say this is cus tieing it the list server is the lamest Idea Tim has hever had |
| 04:23.27 | Patlabor221 | but now your implemetting it |
| 04:23.30 | Patlabor221 | and it's stuck |
| 04:23.40 | cniV | oh nah i didnt put it with list server |
| 04:23.45 | triclops | i thought 1.10 was release? |
| 04:23.48 | Patlabor221 | the tag should be v1_9_4_Beta |
| 04:23.54 | Patlabor221 | 1.10 will be release |
| 04:24.05 | Patlabor221 | so your not doing it like Tim says |
| 04:24.06 | Spiff | Yeah.. in several years. :) |
| 04:24.09 | Patlabor221 | and how are you doing auth? |
| 04:24.16 | triclops | v1_9_4_Beta is beta |
| 04:24.16 | cniV | well he gave me plenty freedom |
| 04:24.20 | Patlabor221 | and how does it work with the present auth system? |
| 04:24.23 | cniV | thats what i need to talk to him about |
| 04:24.28 | cniV | but he aint here.... |
| 04:24.36 | Patlabor221 | that's why you need to spec it and let some of the other devs know and help |
| 04:24.44 | Patlabor221 | it is a "Comunity" project |
| 04:24.48 | Patlabor221 | not a "tim" project |
| 04:24.56 | cniV | well im all ears |
| 04:25.05 | Patlabor221 | no, we should be all ears |
| 04:25.15 | Patlabor221 | since your the one starting it :) |
| 04:25.19 | cniV | fair enough :) |
| 04:25.26 | MrApathyCream | tagged! |
| 04:25.39 | MrApathyCream | v1_9_4_Beta |
| 04:25.53 | Patlabor221 | did you bump the version first? |
| 04:26.04 | MrApathyCream | sheesh |
| 04:26.07 | MrApathyCream | now you tell me |
| 04:26.10 | triclops | hehe |
| 04:26.14 | Patlabor221 | I told you before |
| 04:26.27 | MrApathyCream | can i retag? |
| 04:26.36 | MrApathyCream | with the same tag? |
| 04:26.47 | Patlabor221 | no don't retag |
| 04:26.50 | Patlabor221 | we'll just deal |
| 04:26.56 | MrApathyCream | where's the version? |
| 04:27.05 | Patlabor221 | I got it |
| 04:27.24 | MrApathyCream | k |
| 04:27.34 | CIA | 03jeffm2501 * 12bzflag/include (version.h): bump for beta |
| 04:27.56 | Patlabor221 | moved tag too |
| 04:28.23 | MrApathyCream | coo |
| 04:28.38 | Patlabor221 | my tag didn't work the first time cus I had dirty dsps |
| 04:30.17 | triclops | if no one reports a bug in 1 week do we bump and tag it as 1.10? |
| 04:30.31 | cniV | hmmm |
| 04:30.32 | Patlabor221 | sure |
| 04:30.53 | cniV | so the new version.h has been commited? |
| 04:30.59 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 04:31.06 | cniV | ... |
| 04:31.12 | cniV | cvs up aint doing anything.... |
| 04:31.16 | Patlabor221 | are you using anon cvs? |
| 04:31.19 | Patlabor221 | or ssh CVS? |
| 04:31.24 | cniV | anon |
| 04:31.25 | triclops | anon cvs is sssllloooowww |
| 04:31.33 | cniV | i dont have ssh |
| 04:31.34 | Patlabor221 | anon cvs is at least 24 hours behind |
| 04:31.35 | cniV | access |
| 04:31.40 | Patlabor221 | posibly as far as a week |
| 04:31.51 | MrApathyCream | wow is anon cvs even up? |
| 04:31.57 | Patlabor221 | you should be using the snaps |
| 04:32.05 | triclops | sometimes its less than 24 |
| 04:32.19 | Patlabor221 | some times it's more |
| 04:32.24 | cniV | argh is there a way to merge snaps? |
| 04:32.29 | Patlabor221 | nope |
| 04:32.49 | cniV | hmmm... this is gonna suck |
| 04:32.49 | Patlabor221 | this is a good reason to get on the dev team, and talk to us and get on ssh :) |
| 04:32.53 | MrApathyCream | you can diff your changes and then patch them back in |
| 04:33.12 | cniV | hmmm right i think its time to bug tim then |
| 04:33.38 | Patlabor221 | Tim is not the only one who can give you access |
| 04:33.45 | cniV | oh? |
| 04:33.51 | Patlabor221 | captain_proton |
| 04:33.52 | MrApathyCream | captain_proton, can too i think |
| 04:33.54 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 04:33.55 | Patlabor221 | he can as well |
| 04:33.56 | cniV | ah ok |
| 04:34.03 | Patlabor221 | best would be to submit a request to the dev list |
| 04:34.07 | Patlabor221 | then all devs can see it |
| 04:34.36 | cniV | you mean bzflag-dev |
| 04:34.39 | MrApathyCream | setting up ssh was fun |
| 04:34.40 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 04:34.46 | MrApathyCream | i wouldn't want to do again |
| 04:34.47 | Patlabor221 | it's easy with tourtice |
| 04:35.04 | cniV | setting up ssh |
| 04:35.05 | cniV | hmm |
| 04:35.09 | cniV | aptget install ssh |
| 04:35.16 | cniV | apt-get i meant |
| 04:35.18 | cniV | :) |
| 04:35.38 | cniV | tortoise is good for win32 |
| 04:35.47 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 04:35.54 | CIA | 03jeffm2501 * 12bzflag/package/win32/nsis (BZFlag.nsi): beta bump |
| 04:36.09 | Patlabor221 | sadly I have not seen anything that works well under linux that isn't command line |
| 04:36.21 | cniV | command line all the way :) |
| 04:36.23 | triclops | cli rocks :P |
| 04:36.29 | Patlabor221 | if you like waiting |
| 04:36.31 | MrApathyCream | in regards to ssh or just in general ? ;) |
| 04:36.40 | Patlabor221 | I can look at an entire folder and see what files are dif |
| 04:36.43 | Patlabor221 | just by there icons |
| 04:36.59 | cniV | oh theres cervisa for kde |
| 04:37.03 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 04:37.04 | cniV | which is kinda neat |
| 04:37.12 | Patlabor221 | but it's not intergrated into the file explorer :) |
| 04:37.13 | cniV | but i still think tortoise is nicer |
| 04:37.15 | cniV | yeah |
| 04:37.19 | cniV | the integration is really nice |
| 04:37.31 | Patlabor221 | and the fact that you can provide your own dif utill |
| 04:37.41 | cniV | hence on my windows dev box i use tortoise |
| 04:38.16 | Patlabor221 | Mac con someone into doing a source tarball would ya? |
| 04:38.26 | scanline | tortoise is quite cute, and the command line in windows sucks so much it's a lot more usable than a command line svn |
| 04:38.41 | MrApathyCream | ask scans!! |
| 04:38.56 | cniV | command line in windows is pathetic |
| 04:39.00 | Patlabor221 | I don't think he's built BZ is over 4 months :) |
| 04:39.04 | MrApathyCream | that's what i use, heh |
| 04:39.16 | MrApathyCream | well, it is a SOURCE tarballl |
| 04:39.33 | MrApathyCream | i d/l'ed tortoise but never got around to trying it |
| 04:39.40 | Patlabor221 | I don't think he has the inclination is my point |
| 04:39.47 | cniV | tortoise is good |
| 04:39.48 | Patlabor221 | scanline is cap awake? |
| 04:39.53 | MrApathyCream | ah, scanline is trooper |
| 04:39.56 | scanline | Patlabor221: yep, he's here |
| 04:40.19 | Patlabor221 | can you ask him if he, or if you want to can make me a make dist on CVS ? |
| 04:40.50 | Spiff | Okies.. Spiffy's gonna go watch the Two Towers for a bit. :-) |
| 04:41.01 | Patlabor221 | it's on VHS, don't count |
| 04:41.39 | scanline | Patlabor221: he's doing homeworky-type things while watching stargate |
| 04:41.45 | Patlabor221 | ahh |
| 04:41.47 | scanline | ah |
| 04:41.50 | Patlabor221 | what season? |
| 04:41.56 | Patlabor221 | 4 was really good |
| 04:43.23 | MrApathyCream | wow i have CVS context menu items |
| 04:43.36 | MrApathyCream | never noticed them... assuming tortoise? |
| 04:43.38 | Patlabor221 | welcome to this century :) |
| 04:43.43 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 04:43.45 | Patlabor221 | tha'ts how it works |
| 04:43.49 | MrApathyCream | i installed it a month or so ago |
| 04:43.53 | Patlabor221 | it's just part of the shell |
| 04:43.55 | MrApathyCream | never did anything with it |
| 04:44.19 | MrApathyCream | i don't see any commit-like options |
| 04:44.25 | Patlabor221 | heck you can even get VC to use cvs as it's source controll with tourtice |
| 04:44.33 | JBDiGriz | You guys whine a lot for simple things. At least I was having fun shooting my buddies :P |
| 04:44.36 | MrApathyCream | oooh, nifty |
| 04:44.50 | Patlabor221 | you only get commit in folders that are in CVS |
| 04:45.04 | MrApathyCream | do you have set anything up, preferences? |
| 04:45.12 | Patlabor221 | jbd we bumped and taged, can you make me a sourceball? |
| 04:45.14 | MrApathyCream | or does it just find CVS dirs |
| 04:45.16 | Patlabor221 | if youwant |
| 04:45.31 | Patlabor221 | it knows the CVS dirs, bu the cvs dirs with the entieis and stuff |
| 04:45.33 | Patlabor221 | it's smaper |
| 04:45.36 | Patlabor221 | smart |
| 04:45.45 | JBDiGriz | Sure, do you want the version.h changed, and retagged before I do it? |
| 04:45.53 | Patlabor221 | I did it |
| 04:46.03 | Patlabor221 | it's all bumped taged and set |
| 04:46.11 | Patlabor221 | on then never mind jbd |
| 04:46.12 | Patlabor221 | thanks cap |
| 04:46.25 | Patlabor221 | tho you could make a mac release if you want |
| 04:46.59 | MrApathyCream | hmmm, i'm getting this: |
| 04:47.01 | MrApathyCream | In E:\bz\bz_cvs\bzflag: cvs -q update -d -P src/bzflag |
| 04:47.01 | MrApathyCream | CVSROOT=:ext:dbrosius@cvs.bzflag.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/bzflag |
| 04:47.06 | MrApathyCream | and no progress |
| 04:47.31 | Patlabor221 | is there a dialog thats asking for your password, or do you use ssh keys? |
| 04:47.46 | MrApathyCream | i use keys with the cli |
| 04:47.47 | cniV | use ssh keys :) |
| 04:48.01 | Patlabor221 | don't know how to set it up with keys |
| 04:48.06 | cniV | run pageant |
| 04:48.18 | MrApathyCream | it is already run, and keys are added |
| 04:48.23 | Patlabor221 | I just have it set to auto put in the password |
| 04:48.42 | JBDiGriz | I always heard the mac guys were supposed to complain if it wasn't gui :P |
| 04:48.52 | MrApathyCream | a dimmed ok, and an abort |
| 04:49.16 | MrApathyCream | closing window gives |
| 04:49.16 | MrApathyCream | cvs [update aborted]: writing to server socket: error -1 |
| 04:49.16 | MrApathyCream | CVS operation aborted by user request |
| 04:49.17 | Patlabor221 | you used to, then you all went OSX, so now we have to pick up the slack |
| 04:49.38 | JBDiGriz | You're doing an excellent job tonight. :) |
| 04:50.06 | Patlabor221 | I know mine works flawlessly :) |
| 04:50.22 | Patlabor221 | and it even tags with a nice right click :) |
| 04:50.39 | cniV | hehe |
| 04:50.47 | JBDiGriz | But we have to listen to the whines anyway :) |
| 04:50.54 | MrApathyCream | SSHApplication: TortoisePink |
| 04:50.57 | MrApathyCream | is that correct? |
| 04:50.59 | cniV | yup |
| 04:51.08 | Patlabor221 | on the otherhand asgard here is just siting like a dumbo using command line CVS |
| 04:51.12 | Patlabor221 | that what I use |
| 04:51.36 | cniV | ive found using keys a lot easier |
| 04:51.43 | JBDiGriz | Funny thing, that's what I'm doing on my mac ;) |
| 04:52.35 | Patlabor221 | I just did a -pw on the app and it send the password |
| 04:53.03 | purple_cow | doodeedoo |
| 04:53.15 | cniV | hmmm |
| 04:53.25 | cniV | is it possible to get a shell on sf.net without being part of a project |
| 04:53.38 | cniV | or on dev team for a project |
| 04:53.45 | Patlabor221 | the SF shell dosn't have much |
| 04:53.50 | Patlabor221 | can't run anything |
| 04:54.09 | cniV | but say i want to use my ssh key |
| 04:54.32 | Patlabor221 | there is a page to submit keys |
| 04:54.58 | JBDiGriz | I have a source tar file if anyone needs it. |
| 04:55.01 | cniV | oh ok |
| 04:55.14 | Patlabor221 | you beat cap? |
| 04:55.18 | Patlabor221 | on a macintosh? |
| 04:55.25 | JBDiGriz | ~slap cap |
| 04:55.28 | | ACTION slaps cap, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 04:55.40 | Patlabor221 | throw it in the testing folder |
| 04:56.52 | triclops | update the wiki too |
| 04:57.23 | JBDiGriz | Gee, only orders around here. I guess I'm the only one left with a keyboard. Everyone else is mouse only. :P |
| 04:57.36 | JBDiGriz | The mac build failed, so I'm checking that out |
| 04:57.48 | Patlabor221 | BZBB has a post on about the build. |
| 04:57.53 | triclops | hehe |
| 04:58.18 | Patlabor221 | but MR.ApathyCream ASSSURED me that it was all good |
| 04:59.54 | triclops | thats why we have betas :-) |
| 05:00.13 | Patlabor221 | no, he says we should just post it as the release |
| 05:01.06 | JBDiGriz | autogen is unhappy for some reason |
| 05:01.13 | triclops | when it builds on every platform we release maybe. regardless if it runs or not. |
| 05:02.10 | Patlabor221 | well it depends, do you hate the users? |
| 05:02.15 | JBDiGriz | It seems bzadmin didn't get tagged |
| 05:02.54 | triclops | hehe. i prefer to call them guinea pigs.... >:-) |
| 05:03.07 | Patlabor221 | then you will kill this proiject faster then Tim is |
| 05:03.24 | Patlabor221 | or turn it into Tribes 2 |
| 05:04.31 | triclops | or [insert MicroSoft product here] |
| 05:04.34 | purple_cow | http://jupiter.babylonia.flatirons.org/bzflag-1.9.4.20030930.tar.gz |
| 05:04.42 | Patlabor221 | thank you cap |
| 05:04.50 | JBDiGriz | What do you want to do about bzadmin? |
| 05:05.00 | Patlabor221 | it just didn't get taged thats all? |
| 05:05.18 | JBDiGriz | So when you grab the tag, it doesn't get grabbed. |
| 05:05.21 | Patlabor221 | is it just the folder in src/ |
| 05:05.24 | Patlabor221 | ? |
| 05:05.28 | JBDiGriz | Yep |
| 05:05.53 | Patlabor221 | there it should be taged now |
| 05:06.04 | JBDiGriz | There's a source tar file on bakadigital as well, but it doesn't include bzadmin, so I'll replace it. |
| 05:06.24 | Patlabor221 | I have caps his does |
| 05:06.32 | Patlabor221 | I'm making a zip from that so I'll put both |
| 05:07.09 | Patlabor221 | and you didn't name it right :) |
| 05:07.22 | MrApathyCream | no one uses the ma |
| 05:07.24 | MrApathyCream | mac |
| 05:08.08 | JBDiGriz | very nice, it's tagged as v1_7_4_Beta. :) |
| 05:08.14 | Patlabor221 | good |
| 05:08.29 | Patlabor221 | that better be what mac taged the rest as |
| 05:08.37 | JBDiGriz | perhaps you should look closely at that tag, i didn't make a typo |
| 05:08.40 | Patlabor221 | that's what we all agreed upon |
| 05:08.47 | Patlabor221 | with a .? |
| 05:08.48 | MrApathyCream | yup |
| 05:08.49 | JBDiGriz | not quite :) |
| 05:08.49 | triclops | lol |
| 05:08.59 | Patlabor221 | or did he cap it all |
| 05:09.00 | JBDiGriz | nope, there's no '.' |
| 05:09.11 | JBDiGriz | nope, look very closely |
| 05:09.21 | Patlabor221 | damn |
| 05:09.25 | triclops | rofl |
| 05:09.26 | JBDiGriz | pat must be taking the nyquil again |
| 05:09.46 | Patlabor221 | yup |
| 05:11.32 | Patlabor221 | ahhh 256 up dsl is soo nice |
| 05:12.01 | JBDiGriz | it must be, i really have to update my dsl sometime soon. |
| 05:12.23 | Patlabor221 | I do get a real 256 up too, sometimes more |
| 05:13.00 | Patlabor221 | the zip is gonna clock in at 2:20 |
| 05:13.45 | JBDiGriz | Let's try this again, now that I've removed the changes I've made to figure out what's going on. |
| 05:13.52 | Patlabor221 | there, exe, zip, and src trball |
| 05:14.19 | MrApathyCream | w00t |
| 05:14.27 | JBDiGriz | Is it the src tarball I gave you? If so, I should give you the new one. |
| 05:14.44 | Patlabor221 | it's the one cap gave me |
| 05:14.49 | Patlabor221 | it has bzadmin |
| 05:14.53 | Patlabor221 | I checked |
| 05:15.03 | Patlabor221 | he just did a "get current" |
| 05:15.37 | JBDiGriz | My src tarball is a get -rv1_9_4_Beta, which is a little more appropriate, but it's your call. |
| 05:15.39 | Patlabor221 | if you have to make changes to get the tosh to build, just make them, commit them, and do a build. the changes will get picked up in the next version |
| 05:15.47 | Patlabor221 | noone added anything |
| 05:15.57 | Patlabor221 | so I'm not woried |
| 05:16.12 | Patlabor221 | I watched for commits |
| 05:16.18 | triclops | what about the version change in version.h? |
| 05:16.27 | Patlabor221 | that's in there |
| 05:16.35 | triclops | cool |
| 05:16.40 | Patlabor221 | I moved the tag on that file |
| 05:16.48 | Patlabor221 | to after I made the change |
| 05:17.27 | triclops | bzflag & bzfs compile and execute on linux |
| 05:17.37 | Patlabor221 | I bet this'll get tim to say something here tomorow |
| 05:17.37 | JBDiGriz | The only difference would be the tag listed in the CVS directorys, and that shouldn't bother anyone. |
| 05:17.55 | Patlabor221 | I fixed that tag on the bzadmin |
| 05:18.42 | JBDiGriz | The tags are listed in all the CVS directorys in the source tarball, unless cap removed all of them. |
| 05:18.49 | MrApathyCream | I changed my SSH app to : TortoisePlinkSSH2.bat |
| 05:18.56 | Patlabor221 | the dist build removes the CVS dirs |
| 05:18.57 | MrApathyCream | now i get |
| 05:18.58 | MrApathyCream | In E:\bz\bz_cvs\bzflag: cvs -q --lf update -d -P |
| 05:18.58 | MrApathyCream | CVSROOT=:ext:dbrosius@cvs.bzflag.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/bzflag |
| 05:18.58 | MrApathyCream | cvs update: warning: unrecognized response `The system cannot find the path specified. |
| 05:18.58 | MrApathyCream | ' from cvs server |
| 05:19.00 | MrApathyCream | cvs [update aborted]: end of file from server (consult above messages if any) |
| 05:19.04 | MrApathyCream | Error, CVS operation failed |
| 05:19.06 | MrApathyCream | --in client |
| 05:19.37 | cniV | if you get EOF just try again |
| 05:20.19 | MrApathyCream | constant problem |
| 05:21.07 | cniV | for me if i get EOF i just wait and try again |
| 05:22.04 | Patlabor221 | mac what is your compression set to |
| 05:22.08 | MrApathyCream | where is it pulling CVSROOT and cvs update line from |
| 05:22.11 | Patlabor221 | I have issues with SF and compression |
| 05:22.16 | MrApathyCream | compression is 0 |
| 05:22.18 | Patlabor221 | from the folder |
| 05:22.43 | cniV | right click and select "CVS checkout ..." |
| 05:22.58 | cniV | in the folder above bzflag |
| 05:23.03 | Patlabor221 | that will get you a new tree |
| 05:24.02 | MrApathyCream | same error |
| 05:24.56 | Patlabor221 | ohh cool, I can just turn on export insted of checkout and it won't make all the cvs dirs |
| 05:25.09 | Patlabor221 | that's nice for snaps |
| 05:26.07 | MrApathyCream | hmm, the cvs -q --lf checkout -P bzflag |
| 05:26.07 | MrApathyCream | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:26.11 | MrApathyCream | line works from cli |
| 05:26.16 | MrApathyCream | (minus the --lf of course |
| 05:35.56 | MrApathyCream | this is really irritating |
| 05:36.30 | *** join/#bzflag JBDiGriz (~JBDiGriz@adsl-63-204-118-194.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net) |
| 05:36.58 | JBDiGriz | very odd, machine crashed and network went down |
| 05:39.05 | Quol | G'night |
| 05:39.05 | MrApathyCream | cvs cli 1.11.7 just released |
| 05:41.47 | JBDiGriz | The mac build comes up as 1.9.3 |
| 05:42.34 | Patlabor221 | as the prot or the app? |
| 05:42.48 | JBDiGriz | Yes to both |
| 05:43.32 | Patlabor221 | it's tag looks like it got jacked |
| 05:43.40 | Patlabor221 | just do a CVS up |
| 05:44.45 | JBDiGriz | funny thing it's tag is also v1_7_4_Beta. I wonder how that happened :) |
| 05:45.16 | Patlabor221 | it won't let me movie |
| 05:45.20 | Patlabor221 | move it |
| 05:45.34 | Patlabor221 | you'll notice it has a 1.9 tag as well |
| 05:46.09 | MrApathyCream | how does one do this? |
| 05:46.10 | MrApathyCream | Do this by connecting to username@cvs.projectname.sf.net either with Putty or a command line SSH. |
| 05:46.32 | Patlabor221 | putty is a command line ssh |
| 05:46.51 | MrApathyCream | so putty dbrosius@cvs.bzflag.sourceforge.net ? |
| 05:46.57 | Patlabor221 | just run putty |
| 05:47.01 | Patlabor221 | it will bring up a dialog |
| 05:47.05 | Patlabor221 | put in the info |
| 05:47.08 | Patlabor221 | hit enter |
| 05:47.11 | Patlabor221 | hillarity will ensue |
| 05:47.34 | Patlabor221 | it'll bring up it's own terminal |
| 05:47.34 | MrApathyCream | ok, that did something |
| 05:47.36 | JBDiGriz | It looks like you need to use the -F option, or delete and retag the file. |
| 05:47.48 | MrApathyCream | console yes |
| 05:47.50 | Patlabor221 | just get latest |
| 05:47.58 | Patlabor221 | and i'll be taken care of in the next tag |
| 05:48.08 | Patlabor221 | noone has commited |
| 05:48.14 | MrApathyCream | but that doesn't get rid of the error |
| 05:48.16 | MrApathyCream | :( |
| 05:49.26 | JBDiGriz | The protocol version wasn't updated, I assume that's correct |
| 05:49.45 | Patlabor221 | yeah it didn't change |
| 05:49.55 | MrApathyCream | oh well, i guess i'll stick with the cli |
| 05:50.08 | MrApathyCream | the dialogs are pretty tho :) |
| 05:50.25 | Patlabor221 | may be something with your keys |
| 05:50.46 | MrApathyCream | well those keys work in cli from pageant |
| 05:51.04 | Patlabor221 | sure, but that's not the same app that tourtice is using |
| 05:51.17 | Patlabor221 | you can try making your ssh app be pageant |
| 05:51.25 | Patlabor221 | or doing this TortoisePlink -pw yourpassword |
| 05:51.43 | MrApathyCream | from the cl? |
| 05:51.48 | Patlabor221 | no |
| 05:51.51 | Patlabor221 | in the prefs |
| 05:51.56 | Patlabor221 | where you set your ssh client |
| 05:55.26 | MrApathyCream | nope, nuttin |
| 05:55.30 | MrApathyCream | same error always |
| 05:56.26 | cniV | hmmm |
| 05:57.15 | MrApathyCream | Patlabor221, do you enjoy the constantly dirty buildDate? |
| 05:57.36 | Patlabor221 | I usualy do full builds anyway |
| 05:57.40 | Patlabor221 | so I don't mind |
| 05:57.41 | JBDiGriz | Windows, that toy computer with the silly interface. :) |
| 05:57.55 | MrApathyCream | JBDiGriz, on purpose |
| 05:58.42 | Patlabor221 | and since I use the toy like interface I just uncheck that file when I commit |
| 05:59.10 | MrApathyCream | hmm tortoise.org is definitly not about source control |
| 05:59.20 | Patlabor221 | google man |
| 05:59.21 | Patlabor221 | google |
| 05:59.30 | cniV | its sf.net iirc |
| 05:59.45 | cniV | or tortoisecvs.org |
| 05:59.47 | MrApathyCream | tortoisecvs |
| 05:59.49 | MrApathyCream | yup |
| 05:59.54 | Patlabor221 | and google |
| 06:01.37 | Patlabor221 | well I think I shall retire for the evening before more hillarity ensues |
| 06:03.13 | MrApathyCream | <Patlabor221> well I think I shall retire for the evening before more hillarity ensues |
| 06:03.16 | MrApathyCream | oops |
| 06:03.31 | Patlabor221 | is there an echo in there? |
| 06:03.36 | cniV | gah you silly US people :) |
| 06:03.46 | MrApathyCream | http://diveintomark.org/archives/2003/08/04/xp |
| 06:04.06 | MrApathyCream | too much time on hands |
| 06:04.21 | Patlabor221 | I install XP in less then an hour usualy |
| 06:04.26 | Patlabor221 | but then I do know what I'm doing |
| 06:30.28 | Spiff | Pfff... shows how much he knew anyway. He's bragging on Linksys. |
| 06:34.44 | *** join/#bzflag hans (~fugalh@128.187.246.176) |
| 06:42.43 | *** join/#bzflag hans (~fugalh@128.187.246.176) |
| 06:54.57 | *** join/#bzflag hans (~fugalh@128.187.246.176) |
| 07:37.01 | *** join/#bzflag mmu_man (~revol@ALyon-209-1-22-113.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 07:43.27 | *** join/#bzflag hans (~fugalh@128.187.246.176) |
| 08:08.59 | *** join/#bzflag bomber (~bomber@ap97.physik.uni-frankfurt.de) |
| 08:09.02 | bomber | moin |
| 08:21.47 | *** join/#bzflag MrCooper (~daenzer@vpn-global-dhcp1-66.ethz.ch) |
| 09:29.09 | *** join/#bzflag bomber__ (~bomber@ap97.physik.uni-frankfurt.de) |
| 10:02.35 | *** join/#bzflag larsl (~larsl@c213-100-62-55.swipnet.se) |
| 10:14.06 | larsl | I checked out -r v1_9_4_Beta, but version.h still says 1.9.3 ALPHA. Should I build an RPM anyway? |
| 10:17.17 | Chestal | larsl: version is 1.9.4 for me proto version is 1.9.3 which is ok I guess |
| 10:18.57 | larsl | Proto version? Isn't that the "1903" string? |
| 10:19.02 | Chestal | yes |
| 10:19.37 | cniV | ummm |
| 10:19.43 | larsl | I have the version numbers in include/version.h (MAJOR_VERSION, MINOR_VERSION, REV) set to 1 9 3. |
| 10:19.44 | cniV | there was a problem earlier |
| 10:19.50 | cniV | when tagging |
| 10:19.53 | cniV | <MrApathyCream> tagged! |
| 10:19.53 | cniV | <MrApathyCream> v1_9_4_Beta |
| 10:19.53 | cniV | <Patlabor221> did you bump the version first? |
| 10:19.53 | cniV | <MrApathyCream> sheesh |
| 10:19.53 | cniV | <MrApathyCream> now you tell me |
| 10:19.59 | cniV | :) |
| 10:20.00 | larsl | OK... |
| 10:20.15 | Chestal | larsl: hmm, mine are 1 9 4, but I just did a checkout of the current version without using the tag |
| 10:20.20 | cniV | yeah |
| 10:20.42 | larsl | So if I want to build test packages I should use the current code? |
| 10:20.51 | cniV | non-tagged cvs has 1 9 4 BETA |
| 10:21.05 | Chestal | well, I guess it was an error |
| 10:21.15 | larsl | Or do I need to set a specific time (if something has changed since the test version)? |
| 10:21.16 | Chestal | but you shoudl be fine to use the current code this time |
| 10:32.56 | larsl | Patlabor221's post on BZBB says that this could be a release candidate for 1.10. Don't we still have a dozen bugs introduced since 1.7g2? |
| 10:33.47 | Chestal | some people like to release early, others don't :-) |
| 10:34.03 | Chestal | IMHO all the bugs in BUGS head section should either be resolved or moved to sf tracker |
| 10:34.20 | Chestal | but main thing this version needs is some real testing |
| 10:34.50 | Chestal | the releases before that were tested much more, but because for them it was easier |
| 10:35.10 | larsl | Why easier? |
| 10:36.09 | Chestal | because they were not incompatible |
| 10:36.23 | Chestal | so some 'production' servers were just just upgraded to beta versions |
| 10:38.52 | Chestal | so at least the server side was well-tested |
| 10:39.06 | Chestal | and a coupel of peopel were usign the CVS clients for regular playing, too |
| 11:09.54 | *** join/#bzflag Agent86 (chris@1Cust14.tnt5.dfw9.da.uu.net) |
| 11:24.03 | *** join/#bzflag [dmp] (~dennis@D40A3023.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 11:35.11 | *** join/#bzflag larsl_school (~LarsL@mat05.nada.kth.se) |
| 11:42.21 | *** join/#bzflag Vinc (~kchan@c211-29-162-104.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 11:43.21 | *** join/#bzflag KR (~k@cae168-234-054.sc.rr.com) |
| 12:20.33 | *** join/#bzflag MrCooper (~daenzer@vpn-global-dhcp1-63.ethz.ch) |
| 13:13.54 | *** join/#bzflag brlcad (~sean@hops.cs.jhu.edu) |
| 13:14.09 | brlcad | good morning everybody |
| 13:14.37 | brlcad | That's a pretty cool link MAC posted |
| 13:23.40 | Chestal | which link? |
| 13:28.46 | brlcad | http://students.cs.byu.edu/~cs470ta/labs/PfieldsLab.html |
| 13:29.42 | brlcad | looks like a 400-level grad course in AI |
| 13:30.17 | brlcad | Brigham Young University |
| 13:30.18 | *** join/#bzflag MrCooper (~daenzer@vpn-global-dhcp1-88.ethz.ch) |
| 13:30.54 | brlcad | I found a similar link the day before yesterday -- it was an elementary school teacher using BZ |
| 13:31.32 | *** join/#bzflag larsl_school (~LarsL@mat02.nada.kth.se) |
| 13:33.35 | captain_proton | heh |
| 13:38.52 | brlcad | hrm.. might have something to do with this person: http://www2.et.byu.edu:8080/~soren/sss/bzflag.html |
| 13:41.46 | Chestal | oh, that's interesting |
| 13:42.24 | brlcad | shame they're using g2 and not the latest cvs =) |
| 13:43.16 | Chestal | have you taken a closer look at it? How do they interface bzflag for their agent code? |
| 13:43.21 | larsl_school | Eew, they're writing it "bzFlag". |
| 13:45.17 | brlcad | it's not clear, but it sounds like they are being asked to hack the client itself |
| 13:46.39 | brlcad | I love this quote at the bottom under "Known issues and deficiencies:" :) |
| 13:46.43 | brlcad | "Very, very crufty code and lots of debugging output. Sorry." |
| 13:46.43 | Chestal | they defined a small wrapper layer |
| 13:47.36 | brlcad | ah yes.. Coding your agent page.. missed that |
| 13:48.08 | Chestal | the calsign "Absolut0" from the screenshot has last been seen by the ladder scripts on turkey in May |
| 13:49.44 | brlcad | There's more if you go up a dir: http://students.cs.byu.edu/~cs470ta/labs/ |
| 13:50.08 | brlcad | That looks like it's the final project for this semester.. |
| 13:51.42 | brlcad | Hrmm.. one page lists a due date of April, so perhaps it was last semester and the TA is cleaning things up for next semester :) |
| 13:51.46 | Chestal | how did MAC find that? |
| 13:51.51 | hans | brlcad: it's actually the whole semester project wrapped up in a nutshell |
| 13:52.08 | hans | but when I took this class we didn't use bzflag. :( |
| 13:52.08 | brlcad | haha, cool |
| 13:52.25 | Chestal | would be interesting to see the results of the lab |
| 13:52.48 | brlcad | Very interesting :) |
| 13:53.02 | brlcad | hans, can you get us in touch with that TA or the professor? |
| 13:53.02 | hans | the screenshot is from our campus LUG's cd with cool free software for windows |
| 13:53.29 | hans | you bet. I bet the thrust of it is the TA named Dave Wingate. Brilliant guy. |
| 13:53.47 | *** join/#bzflag drinian (~drinian@pcp153139pcs.hamntn01.nj.comcast.net) |
| 13:53.48 | hans | but I'm not sure. I don't know the professor personally. |
| 13:54.00 | hans | (took it from another) |
| 13:54.32 | brlcad | An e-mail for either or both would be nice |
| 13:54.59 | hans | http://students.cs.byu.edu/~cs470ta/ |
| 13:55.10 | hans | emails, phones, and snail mail |
| 13:55.18 | brlcad | ah, good stuff |
| 13:55.23 | brlcad | thanks ;) |
| 13:56.16 | hans | Dave Wingate is probably reachable via wingated@cs.byu.edu |
| 13:56.39 | hans | like I say, don't know he's responsible but he's the only one I know and he's definitely capable |
| 14:00.29 | brlcad | It would be very interesting to see what the final results were, if he's willing and capable to provide the projects (or at least put us in contact with the students) |
| 14:01.10 | hans | would be fun to watch the final tourney as observers |
| 14:04.04 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@63.147.94.145) |
| 14:18.11 | *** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@adsl-66-72-31-77.dsl.kntpin.ameritech.net) |
| 14:27.32 | bryjen | ~seen Chestal |
| 14:27.33 | | i haven't seen 'chestal ', bryjen |
| 14:27.37 | bryjen | argle |
| 14:27.40 | bryjen | ~seen Chestal |
| 14:27.40 | | chestal is currently on #bzflag. Has said a total of 79 messages. Is idling for 35m 15s |
| 14:28.01 | brlcad | Would anyone like to be copied on this e-mail that I'm sending out? |
| 14:28.05 | bryjen | ~seen MrApathyCream |
| 14:28.06 | | mrapathycream <~MAC@balt-209-163-100-214.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 8h 24m ago, saying: 'too much time on hands'. |
| 14:29.41 | hans | brlcad: can I see the email? |
| 14:30.04 | hans | oh, be copied. yeah, copy me |
| 14:30.11 | hans | hans@fugal.net |
| 14:30.26 | brlcad | I'll blind it to you |
| 14:44.24 | hans | thx |
| 14:45.47 | hans | i think an (semi)annual bzflag bot tournament would be loads of fun |
| 14:46.18 | brlcad | I've been working on an api over the past couple months, but it's slow going |
| 14:46.55 | brlcad | something akin to what they did for the course -- provide an api that can rather easilly be called by whatever external module |
| 14:50.25 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@proxyle02.ext.ti.com) |
| 14:50.48 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 14:52.22 | hans | Hi Tim. Did you know they're using bzflag in CS470 at BYU this semester? |
| 15:18.24 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~JeffM@208.48.199.216) |
| 15:18.25 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 15:20.18 | TimRiker | hans: nope. cool! have em contact me if they need anything. are they using CVS or stable? |
| 15:21.03 | brlcad | they are using g2 |
| 15:21.16 | TimRiker | ah. well that's better than nothing. ;-) |
| 15:21.23 | TimRiker | hope we get some patches from it. |
| 15:21.51 | brlcad | I told them to wander on over in to here if they need help; mentioned we have a pending release |
| 15:22.08 | bryjen | anyone familiar with the speed cheat checks in bzfs ? |
| 15:23.40 | brlcad | bryjen: I know the basic jist of what it does. Mac implemented it, iirc |
| 15:24.01 | bryjen | MAC and Chestal have working on it |
| 15:24.08 | bryjen | s/working/worked |
| 15:24.42 | brlcad | compares your speed to your previous and kicks you if you're going too fast. Mac added a delay of 250ms recently to prevent late-packet kicks |
| 15:25.18 | bryjen | There are comment around it about "can't be sure if the player didn't drop a flag". Could not the player's flagHistory be used to check for that? |
| 15:26.26 | Chestal | one problem is that the messages are not ordered |
| 15:26.47 | Chestal | actualyl, the two mesage types in question here use two different transport channels |
| 15:27.17 | Chestal | MsgPlayerUpdate packets (which contain the speed values) are sent as UDP datagrams, whereas the 'important' mesages are sent over the TCP link |
| 15:27.40 | Chestal | so, I'd assume it's not very porbable, but they might arrive out of order |
| 15:27.47 | bryjen | hmmm. there apears to be a check of state.order at the _bottom_ of MsgPlayerUpdate. _After_ the cheat checks. Does that sound correct? |
| 15:28.12 | Chestal | I am not really familiar with that code |
| 15:29.16 | Chestal | but at first glance it looks liek this check should be at the very beginning of the MsgPlayerUpdate handling |
| 15:29.27 | brlcad | It's not so much a matter of catching the cheat within XXX milliseconds of occurance.. if it's caught even two or three seconds later, that is "good" |
| 15:29.52 | bryjen | ah, i see. so flag drops, being "important" are TCP... |
| 15:29.54 | Chestal | not that it normally wouldn't make a difference |
| 15:30.16 | brlcad | perhaps have "penalty cards" that a player can hold -- after X offenses, they are kicked; after X minutes a card is removed |
| 15:30.39 | Nidhoggr | hrm interesting idea. |
| 15:31.42 | TimRiker | there a url for byu bzflag info? |
| 15:35.25 | hans | TimRiker: http://students.cs.byu.edu/~cs470ta/ look for the labs |
| 15:35.58 | brlcad | hans, was bz used last semester, or is that for this semester? |
| 15:36.14 | brlcad | one of the labs said it was due by April 15th |
| 15:36.47 | bryjen | would the flagdrop and playerupdate ordering affect this check anyway? if ( currentflag = V or previousflag = V ) ; then speedLimit = SpeedLimit * VspeedAd |
| 15:36.52 | hans | brlcad: this is the first time I've heard of it. I took it last fall |
| 15:37.14 | brlcad | hrm.. so maybe that final project is due april 15th next year ;) heh |
| 15:37.17 | hans | they have done CTF in the past |
| 15:37.24 | hans | just not with bzflag |
| 15:37.26 | bryjen | if its not recieved the drop message yet, currentflag is still V. if you didn't have V anyway, neither will be V anyway |
| 15:37.54 | hans | so most of the labs will be similar except for the bzflag component |
| 15:38.21 | *** part/#bzflag hans (~fugalh@128.187.246.176) |
| 15:38.25 | Chestal | bryjen: hmm, I amnot sure. All I know is that it's a difficult issue to get the checks right for all pathological cases |
| 15:40.52 | bryjen | I've just noticed serveral over-speed "logged only" messages in my server logs. people are still getting around these checks. |
| 15:42.42 | *** join/#bzflag TyroneFHornigh (~JBDiGriz@216.188.65.26) |
| 15:47.16 | Chestal | I'd assume that the logged only messages are for people who are dead or in-air? |
| 15:48.57 | bryjen | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:48.59 | bryjen | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:49.00 | bryjen | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:49.02 | bryjen | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:49.03 | bryjen | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:51.28 | bryjen | hmm... i don't see anywhere where the state.order gets set to anything other than 0 when a player is added.... |
| 15:52.30 | Chestal | it's taken from the message on unpack |
| 15:52.43 | Chestal | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:53.29 | bryjen | Ah |
| 15:54.36 | bryjen | so it should be set in the client somewhere... |
| 15:55.59 | *** join/#bzflag mmu_man (~revol@ALyon-209-1-19-181.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:56.07 | Chestal | the client should increment this each time it sents such a packet |
| 15:56.22 | Chestal | this is just so we can silently drop old packets |
| 15:56.28 | Chestal | not that I would expect this to happen very often |
| 16:01.22 | bryjen | Ok. There it is. order++ in PlayerState::pack() in src/common/PlayerState.cxx |
| 16:02.27 | Chestal | what is your point anyway? checks are too eager or too relaxed? |
| 16:02.31 | *** join/#bzflag niksie (~nkist@c3eea1e89.cable.wanadoo.nl) |
| 16:02.35 | niksie | Hello |
| 16:02.44 | Chestal | hi niksie |
| 16:02.53 | niksie | hey Chestal |
| 16:02.55 | niksie | long time no see |
| 16:03.04 | bryjen | i was hoping to make the speed check a bit smarter |
| 16:03.56 | niksie | how busy are the CVS servers? |
| 16:04.22 | bryjen | i got distracted by the order thing. that's another issue. |
| 16:10.52 | *** join/#bzflag MrCooper (~daenzer@dclient80-218-117-230.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:12.38 | bryjen | i think the speed check is too relaxed. i have lots of log entries with tanks traveling from 50 up to 600 (25 is the normal speeed, 37 for V flag) |
| 16:14.27 | niksie | that would not be good |
| 16:17.25 | Nidhoggr | bryjen, there is a speed cheat that people use where they set themselves .01 off the ground, and the server doesn't kick them because they are "jumping" |
| 16:18.16 | bryjen | those aren't auto-kick notices, just "logged only" messages |
| 16:18.58 | Nidhoggr | that's how it reports that a person is too fast. if they were on the ground, it'd autokick them. |
| 16:19.12 | bryjen | Nidhoggr: it looks at their Z coordinate and Z velocity, so they'd have to be moving a bit. |
| 16:19.30 | bryjen | notice the code segment i pasted above |
| 16:19.50 | bryjen | or maybe there's a way to fake that out too :( |
| 16:19.52 | Nidhoggr | someone here tested it a while back. they set themselves .1 off the ground, and they were not kicked until they went backwards. |
| 16:20.16 | Nidhoggr | I get a bunch of cheaters like that |
| 16:20.50 | Nidhoggr | so a check to see if altitude changes while they are going faster than -speedtol would be good. |
| 16:22.17 | bryjen | if they've set themselves to .00001, or whatever, it would not change |
| 16:22.21 | Nidhoggr | when I see that, it normally doesn't kick them until they've gone outside the map area. |
| 16:22.44 | Nidhoggr | that's the point... if your altitude is changing, then no kick. if it isn't, then kick. |
| 16:22.55 | Nidhoggr | I just said it kinda backwards. |
| 16:22.58 | bryjen | or they could be driving on a very thin buidling |
| 16:23.45 | Patlabor221 | server should track there jump state |
| 16:23.57 | Nidhoggr | how does bz deal with buildings? if the building top is +10 off the ground, can't you make sure they are not 10.1 or some such junk? |
| 16:24.23 | Patlabor221 | the server doesn't know if they are on or off a building |
| 16:24.34 | Patlabor221 | it needs to check it's jump state |
| 16:24.35 | Nidhoggr | ah. |
| 16:24.39 | niksie | why not just kick them if their velocity ever is greater than a certain velocity? |
| 16:24.41 | bryjen | i donno. i don't think the server play any attention to obstacles. no collision detection there |
| 16:25.06 | niksie | I'm referring to vx/vy velocity btw |
| 16:25.10 | Patlabor221 | cus if you jump with High Speed, then drop the flag in mid air, you will not slow down til you land |
| 16:25.23 | Patlabor221 | and in that case you would be kicked |
| 16:25.36 | niksie | hmm |
| 16:25.37 | Patlabor221 | cus you are moving faster then your current flag state allows. |
| 16:25.41 | Nidhoggr | and it happens, unless you use -speedtol |
| 16:25.43 | niksie | good reason |
| 16:25.57 | niksie | how about not actually truly dropping the flag until you hit the ground? |
| 16:26.00 | niksie | it wouldn't change anything |
| 16:26.00 | Patlabor221 | the current speed kick is not well implemented |
| 16:26.04 | Nidhoggr | nod |
| 16:26.18 | bryjen | Patlabor221: that's what got me started on using flaghistory to catch that case |
| 16:26.20 | Patlabor221 | that would be a large change to gameply |
| 16:26.42 | niksie | why? |
| 16:26.46 | Patlabor221 | best thing would be to improve the server state, and not just work on hacks with what is there. |
| 16:26.57 | Patlabor221 | cus people are used to droping things in the air. |
| 16:26.58 | brlcad | :) |
| 16:27.13 | Patlabor221 | like bad flags can drop when the time goes off, no mater where you are. |
| 16:27.22 | niksie | yeah |
| 16:27.31 | niksie | how about a special case for the HS flag? |
| 16:27.39 | bryjen | flaghistory is _kind_ _of_ a state thing... |
| 16:27.39 | Patlabor221 | then it's even a worse hack |
| 16:27.47 | Patlabor221 | why not fix the server so it knows properly |
| 16:27.56 | Patlabor221 | it is kinda |
| 16:27.58 | niksie | because that would be rather complicated |
| 16:28.08 | Patlabor221 | welcome to the real word kidoo |
| 16:28.16 | Nidhoggr | can't you put in a "lastflag" function for players? |
| 16:28.17 | brlcad | a server state could watch instances of "speeding" and notice that you are actually still obeying game rules, regardless of "flag state" |
| 16:28.35 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 16:28.38 | bryjen | i hadn't thought of the packet ordering issue Chestal brought up tho.... |
| 16:28.44 | Patlabor221 | and a true server state would allow soo much more |
| 16:28.54 | brlcad | much so much more |
| 16:29.11 | Patlabor221 | since there is no true time sync a server state is screwed for that reason |
| 16:29.24 | bryjen | Nidhoggr: the server already tracks your previous flags for the /flaghistory command. it just doesn't use that info in the cheat checks. |
| 16:29.33 | Patlabor221 | the BZ game is just not designed around that type of ideal |
| 16:29.52 | niksie | does flaghistory contain time? |
| 16:30.12 | Patlabor221 | it's just last flag |
| 16:30.16 | bryjen | niksie: its just a list of flags, in the order you've had them |
| 16:30.24 | niksie | ok |
| 16:30.35 | Patlabor221 | so with out jump state it could still get funky |
| 16:30.36 | bryjen | there is a last flag drop time, tho, i think |
| 16:30.42 | Nidhoggr | well, the last flag info would definitely help for the speed cheats. |
| 16:30.58 | niksie | It shouldn't be too hard to calculate the max jump time on a map |
| 16:31.07 | Patlabor221 | you could have had V, drop it, jump, speed up, then be ok |
| 16:31.15 | Nidhoggr | nod |
| 16:31.34 | Nidhoggr | pat, true, but it'd still catch most of the instances. |
| 16:31.54 | niksie | if the cheaters have to perform special actions in game I think we are save :) |
| 16:31.59 | niksie | They have no skill |
| 16:32.15 | Patlabor221 | ohh they will just automate it |
| 16:32.23 | Nidhoggr | probably. |
| 16:32.23 | Patlabor221 | since they can get any flag at any time |
| 16:32.23 | niksie | hmm, perhaps |
| 16:32.27 | Patlabor221 | it would be easy |
| 16:32.36 | niksie | oh, I did not know that cheat existed |
| 16:32.40 | Patlabor221 | they have no skill in game, but do not doubt there skill in programing. |
| 16:32.44 | bryjen | only compare to lastflag within lastflagdroptime > currenttime - jumptime |
| 16:32.49 | niksie | how much work has been done on anti-cheating in this tree? |
| 16:32.59 | brlcad | near nil |
| 16:33.07 | TyroneFHornigh | There's been a lot of talk |
| 16:33.10 | Patlabor221 | well it has all the stuff G2 had |
| 16:33.17 | Patlabor221 | and some of that has goten tweaks |
| 16:33.22 | niksie | Patlabor221: the cheaters must be cowering in fear |
| 16:33.36 | Patlabor221 | no, no they arn't |
| 16:33.37 | TyroneFHornigh | The thunder of voices in IRC can do that :) |
| 16:33.44 | niksie | heh |
| 16:33.46 | Patlabor221 | yeah all 5 of them |
| 16:33.56 | brlcad | the voting system will allow players to settle cheating issues by themselves, and should alleviate cheater impact, but it doesn't address the fundamental problem that allows cheating to persist so openly |
| 16:34.17 | niksie | I think its nice that there are cheaters |
| 16:34.23 | niksie | It gives us something to discuss |
| 16:34.25 | niksie | and think about |
| 16:34.38 | Patlabor221 | there will allways be cheaters |
| 16:34.41 | TyroneFHornigh | The voting system only works for obvious cheats and obnoxious players. It won't solve most of the problem. |
| 16:34.42 | Patlabor221 | you can't stop all hacks |
| 16:34.56 | niksie | like this flag colouring |
| 16:35.18 | TyroneFHornigh | There's a huge intersection between obnoxious players and cheaters though. |
| 16:35.27 | niksie | heh |
| 16:35.43 | bryjen | cheaters are a subset of obnoxious players |
| 16:35.59 | Patlabor221 | not allways |
| 16:36.01 | Patlabor221 | but often |
| 16:36.28 | bryjen | if you believe cheating itself is obnoxious |
| 16:36.30 | brlcad | yes, the subtle cheaters and subtlely annoying placers will remain unimpacted by the voting :) |
| 16:36.55 | niksie | There is a gray line between hacking your client and cheating |
| 16:37.05 | bryjen | ~dict obnoxious |
| 16:37.27 | TimRiker | cniV: I'm thinking that the new bzfls would be php or similar on *nix |
| 16:37.36 | cniV | perl? |
| 16:37.49 | cniV | though php is ok for database stuff |
| 16:37.51 | Nidhoggr | what is a dodge bot? |
| 16:37.53 | TyroneFHornigh | python seems to be the preference around here. :) |
| 16:38.00 | TimRiker | since we want a web interface as well as a callable interface for the clients and bzfs |
| 16:38.17 | TyroneFHornigh | Nidhoggr: it's an american made bot, usually associated with trucks :) |
| 16:38.31 | TimRiker | it would seem that we want a database like SQLite that holds the servers, users, groups, karma |
| 16:38.38 | Nidhoggr | ~lart TyroneFHornigh |
| 16:38.47 | cniV | yup |
| 16:38.51 | niksie | karma would be awesome |
| 16:38.58 | niksie | and SQLlite already is awesome |
| 16:39.08 | Nidhoggr | :) |
| 16:39.09 | TimRiker | client would make a regular http call to the server as would the bzfs instances. |
| 16:39.14 | niksie | pass me some of that stuff, will ya |
| 16:39.23 | cniV | i havent played around with SQLite though |
| 16:39.33 | TimRiker | users can use other urls to get to the web administration stuff like group administration etc. |
| 16:39.36 | niksie | its more than sufficient for bzfls needs |
| 16:39.48 | Nidhoggr | Tim, good idea. |
| 16:39.59 | brlcad | The bzfls in and of itself is a bit odd. The servers themselves could do everything that the bzfls does without the need of a webserver etc |
| 16:40.02 | TimRiker | cniV: perl is fine. probably mod perl or similar for performance. |
| 16:40.09 | cniV | yup |
| 16:40.23 | TimRiker | perl supports SQLite (ibot uses it now) does php? |
| 16:40.25 | cniV | its just that im more familiar with perl than say php |
| 16:41.15 | niksie | error comming up: |
| 16:41.15 | TimRiker | cniV: I don't have a strong preference for php or perl etc. I do have a preference for SQLite instead of say MySQL. |
| 16:41.25 | cniV | yup |
| 16:41.33 | cniV | im sure i can figure out SQLite :) |
| 16:41.36 | niksie | its the compiling phase for macosx |
| 16:41.39 | niksie | g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include -I../../include -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -O3 -ffast-math -fomit-frame-pointer -fexpensive-optimizations -fno-exceptions -c -o bzfls.o `test -f 'bzfls.cxx' || echo './'`bzfls.cxx |
| 16:41.39 | niksie | /usr/include/gcc/darwin/3.3/c++/ppc-darwin/bits/atomicity.h: In function `int |
| 16:41.39 | niksie | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:41.39 | niksie | /usr/include/gcc/darwin/3.3/c++/ppc-darwin/bits/atomicity.h:65: error: `asm' |
| 16:41.41 | niksie | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:41.41 | TimRiker | brlcad: explain? |
| 16:41.51 | Nidhoggr | Tim, why sqlite over mysql? |
| 16:42.00 | Nidhoggr | <--- not familiar with sqlite |
| 16:42.07 | niksie | sqlite==very nice |
| 16:42.12 | TimRiker | Nidhoggr: easier to compartmentalize to a single user. |
| 16:42.23 | TimRiker | ~sqlite |
| 16:42.24 | | methinks sqlite is a lightweight, embeddable sql server. it is rumored to be easily compiled for the ARM architecture. or at http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/SqLite or ipkg install sqlite |
| 16:42.24 | Nidhoggr | ah |
| 16:42.58 | TimRiker | ~sqlite is also http://www.hwaci.com/sw/sqlite/ |
| 16:42.59 | | TimRiker: okay |
| 16:43.14 | *** join/#bzflag david_v (~david_v@c213-200-135-241.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 16:43.22 | Nidhoggr | :) |
| 16:43.26 | TyroneFHornigh | niksie: You're using gcc 3.3, have you modified the PB files, or are you using the make build? |
| 16:44.05 | cniV | oh and also, with the one username per unique email address |
| 16:44.14 | cniV | do we allow say hotmail/yahoo email addresses? |
| 16:44.24 | niksie | jaguar, gcc 3.3 using the make build |
| 16:44.40 | brlcad | Tim: the servers already know how to announce themselves, the servers are already set up to send/receive traffic. With a server-network protocol, servers could intercommunicate (and be self-redundant) without the need for a list server. |
| 16:45.17 | niksie | brlcad: that may cause trouble when a single server tries to muck things up |
| 16:45.19 | cniV | we will need something which targets people just creating accounts for the sake of it |
| 16:45.42 | TyroneFHornigh | niksie: I've built using 3.3 with PB, but I haven't tried the make build. The 3.3 compiler definitely has some issues, since it's still a prerelease. |
| 16:45.43 | brlcad | the list server itself could be converted to an idle bzfs that would/could serve as a backup for the network as a default check |
| 16:46.01 | TimRiker | Nidhoggr: uses a single file for the sqldatabase. implements fairly complete (and fast) SQL standard interface. cool stuff. |
| 16:46.23 | Nidhoggr | cool |
| 16:46.39 | TimRiker | cniV: any email address they can receive at this point. we might have email ban lists in the future. |
| 16:46.41 | brlcad | niksie: not if the protocol is defined narrowly enough -- you don't see gnutella clients causing havok on p2p networks for much of the same reason |
| 16:46.48 | cniV | ok |
| 16:46.53 | brlcad | it could even be a valid p2p network |
| 16:47.21 | niksie | hmm, yeah |
| 16:47.28 | TimRiker | brlcad: tough to do. but with a peer to peer protocol it could work for server annoucements. |
| 16:47.58 | TimRiker | brlcad: won't work for user/password though as any server could join and claim to know better than any other. |
| 16:48.44 | brlcad | networks like the limelight network almost mirror exactly what is needed, where longer persisting servers become ultrapeers allowing for large network message passing responsibilities, etc |
| 16:49.11 | brlcad | Tim: explain |
| 16:49.20 | TimRiker | brlcad: still have the user/password issue. more pronounced with splits (DOS etc) |
| 16:49.39 | Nidhoggr | brlcad... i work for limelight. :) |
| 16:49.54 | brlcad | Nidhoggr: ha :) |
| 16:49.56 | TimRiker | say the user "Tim" is owner and member of an "admin" group. some server would own that entry. |
| 16:50.02 | *** part/#bzflag david_v (~david_v@c213-200-135-241.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 16:50.17 | TimRiker | then you DOS that server and start a new server which has a different "Tim" and "admin". |
| 16:50.43 | TimRiker | now all servers that trusted "Tim" will trust your hack and you own the network. |
| 16:50.44 | Nidhoggr | so you'd have to set up trust relationships with servers, so they can update their own entries. |
| 16:50.48 | Nidhoggr | so a gpg key or similar. |
| 16:51.18 | TimRiker | n way trust relationships mirrored on 50 plus servers is not an easy thing to get right. |
| 16:51.34 | Nidhoggr | nope |
| 16:51.38 | bryjen | eep. NT Domains come to mind |
| 16:51.50 | Nidhoggr | so there has to be a central server or two. |
| 16:52.14 | TimRiker | so 2-5 central list servers is a lot easier to admin and get right. |
| 16:52.34 | TimRiker | we'll start with one, then add a slave soon. |
| 16:52.38 | Nidhoggr | nod |
| 16:52.44 | brlcad | right, there are ways around that. It depends how and who controls registration/authentication. I'm not saying that needs to be distributed. Perhaps you would have something equivalent to agents on the network (akin to NickServ in irc) that would do it |
| 16:52.49 | niksie | how much traffic does the list server get? |
| 16:53.09 | *** part/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~JeffM@208.48.199.216) |
| 16:53.13 | TimRiker | since we want to have a web interface to much of this it seems to make sense to have the complete list server be a web application. |
| 16:54.05 | TimRiker | niksie: http://list.bzflag.org/eth0.html |
| 16:54.09 | brlcad | You could still have the list server be a web interface that would just attach on to the network, but you could do the same with the client itself, or a bzfs admin interface as well |
| 16:55.10 | TimRiker | brlcad: I hear you. both solutions would work. we need a web interface to the list server, so I'm saying that let's do that first. |
| 16:55.43 | brlcad | bzfs needs it anyways.. turn it into a network peer (which it really is) and you open up a lot of possibilities. heck, you could implement the exact same registration system that would have been in bzfls and just make it the authority agent for registrati |
| 16:55.53 | TimRiker | if we decide to add caching and a list server proxy interface into bzfs in the future we still can. we are not starting there though. |
| 16:55.59 | niksie | what is adler32.c? |
| 16:56.47 | *** join/#bzflag Bagheera (~Bagheera@h-68-165-122-98.MCLNVA23.covad.net) |
| 16:56.54 | Nidhoggr | hiya bagheera |
| 16:57.18 | TimRiker | cniV: So... I'd suggest we change bzflag 1.9 to use GET instead of LIST on the current bzfls. |
| 16:57.19 | Bagheera | hey nid |
| 16:57.32 | Nidhoggr | I can't look at the map, but I put it up. :) |
| 16:57.38 | TimRiker | then we implement a new bzfls in perl or php and point 1.9 at that one. |
| 16:57.39 | Nidhoggr | I'll look at it when i get home. |
| 16:57.46 | Nidhoggr | I'm excited I can play again. |
| 16:57.50 | cniV | right |
| 16:58.03 | TimRiker | then we add user databases on the new list server. then we make the servers and clients talk to that interface. |
| 16:58.11 | Bagheera | no rush, minor visual changes, major tweaking |
| 16:58.55 | TimRiker | first step is a replacement perl/php bzfls. some one write it and I'll run it on list.bzflag.org |
| 17:00.59 | cniV | is there a spec of sorts for it? |
| 17:01.26 | cniV | may be better than blindly rewriting it in say perl/php |
| 17:01.43 | TimRiker | nope. but I can explain... client does a GET to http://BZFlag.SourceForge.net/list-servers.txt to get the url(s) for the list server. |
| 17:02.07 | TimRiker | then it does a LIST to http://list.bzflag.org:5156/ (effectively) |
| 17:02.31 | TimRiker | that's the one that should be changed to a GET on the same URL and handle the http headers. simple change. |
| 17:03.35 | TimRiker | the output is a text/plain that includes space separated server/ver/info/ip/msg |
| 17:04.39 | TimRiker | servers do an ADD server/ver/info/ip/msg to get on. should be changed to a GET/POST with params. |
| 17:05.23 | TimRiker | bzfls does a tcp open back to the server to confirm that it's there (or that something is there) and then adds the server to the list. |
| 17:06.08 | TimRiker | servers do a SETNUM? or something every time a player joins/leaves to update the listing. should also be changed to a GET/POST with parameters. |
| 17:07.09 | TimRiker | that's it iirc. |
| 17:07.16 | *** join/#bzflag Svartalf (~frank@c9.9b.425e.cidr.airmail.net) |
| 17:07.25 | *** part/#bzflag Svartalf (~frank@c9.9b.425e.cidr.airmail.net) |
| 17:07.31 | cniV | currently theres ADD/REMOVE/SETNUM/LIST/GET |
| 17:07.46 | cniV | are you saying that we deprecate some of them |
| 17:07.52 | TimRiker | ah. forgot remove. ;-) |
| 17:08.20 | TimRiker | ADD/REMOVE/SETNUM/LIST should change to GET with parameters. |
| 17:08.43 | cniV | right |
| 17:09.15 | TimRiker | http://list.bzflag.org:5156/setnum?server=example.com:5144&players=0,1,2,3,4,5 for example. |
| 17:09.55 | cniV | ah right |
| 17:10.14 | TimRiker | http://list.bzflag.org:5156/setnum?server=example.com:5144&players=0:1:2:3:4:5 might be better. |
| 17:10.34 | cniV | so its just simple CGI stuff |
| 17:10.50 | TimRiker | yep. setnum could be a php/perl/etc script. |
| 17:11.06 | cniV | ditto add/remove/list? |
| 17:11.19 | TimRiker | could also do: http://list.bzflag.org:5156/list?action=setnum&server=example.com:5144&players=0:1:2:3:4:5 |
| 17:12.48 | TimRiker | eventually we nuke the 5156 and put it on port 80. add http_proxy support and redirects to the URL handler that the client and bzfs use. |
| 17:13.07 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~JeffM@208.48.199.216) |
| 17:13.07 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 17:13.10 | cniV | i dont follow the last example |
| 17:13.22 | cniV | why put setnum in list? |
| 17:14.54 | TimRiker | then list would be the only entry point and the same php/perl script would look at action to decide what to do. |
| 17:15.09 | cniV | ah right |
| 17:15.12 | bryjen | http://list.bzflag.org:5156/foo?action=bar where bar = add , remove, setnum, list ... |
| 17:15.28 | TimRiker | bryjen: xactly |
| 17:15.32 | cniV | so instead of having 5 different scripts |
| 17:15.40 | cniV | just have one and switch the action |
| 17:16.02 | cniV | right that sounds pretty straightforward |
| 17:16.36 | TimRiker | a bare /list would imply a LIST and with action=something you get others. |
| 17:17.30 | cniV | cool hopefully i'll get this done within the next few days |
| 17:17.57 | TimRiker | sweet. need to hack the 1.9 client/bzfs once we have a sample to point at. |
| 17:18.03 | *** join/#bzflag Spiff (~Spiff@12-223-213-142.client.insightbb.com) |
| 17:18.04 | cniV | yeah |
| 17:18.15 | cniV | where to put in cvs though... |
| 17:21.48 | brlcad | eep.. Limewire network != Limelight network.. :) I meant the prior earlier .. |
| 17:23.14 | TyroneFHornigh | careful, you're going to receive a notice from the RIAA for admitting you know that :) |
| 17:24.02 | cniV | ok im gonna go crash somewhere... had a few all-nighters and im pretty buggered |
| 17:24.20 | bryjen | at least you weren't mixing apples and oranges ;) |
| 17:24.23 | cniV | catch you guys in a few hours |
| 17:24.59 | brlcad | file sharing is not (nor should be) illegal, file sharing apps are not (nor should be) illegal. What you choose to share and how you share it "may" be, however, given current IP law in the US> |
| 17:25.01 | TimRiker | cniV: start a new module. |
| 17:25.25 | TimRiker | instead of /bzflag use /karma or similar. anyone for a name idea? |
| 17:25.45 | niksie | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:25.46 | Noodleman | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:25.52 | TyroneFHornigh | and the RIAA can send out all the notices it wants. It doesn't mean that people should be paying the extortion they're demanding. |
| 17:25.57 | Spiff | PFf |
| 17:26.01 | Spiff | :-) |
| 17:26.06 | Spiff | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:26.07 | Spiff | ? |
| 17:26.09 | TimRiker | list? karma? admin? db? ?somelongnamethatpeoplewillgetsickoftyping? |
| 17:26.15 | Spiff | LoL Nidhoggr |
| 17:26.24 | niksie | I like /whuffie |
| 17:26.29 | niksie | its from that book |
| 17:26.37 | niksie | Down and out in the Magic Kingdom |
| 17:26.43 | Spiff | Hey Noodle... |
| 17:26.52 | Nidhoggr | my thought bubbles get me in more trouble ;) |
| 17:26.55 | Noodleman | Spiff: m00f |
| 17:26.58 | Spiff | You missed "my" car last night.. left right before I could stick it in here. |
| 17:27.06 | Spiff | http://cegullah.bakadigital.com/Car.jpg |
| 17:27.08 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 17:27.12 | Spiff | Methinks it wouldn't get stolen. ;-) |
| 17:27.13 | niksie | It could also show how good a player you are and how many times you have been voted off |
| 17:27.34 | Noodleman | did you actually do it? |
| 17:27.39 | Spiff | Nooo! LoL |
| 17:27.44 | Noodleman | or did you get that off the net? |
| 17:27.58 | Spiff | Some dude on an MSN community I used to visit posted it. :) |
| 17:28.24 | TimRiker | niksie: nod. playing stats etc. SETNUM would include the user(s) that are logged in at some point. |
| 17:28.34 | TimRiker | so the new list server could do stats stuff too. |
| 17:28.37 | Spiff | Tho I'm tempted to do something similar to my car before I go on any road trips.. :) |
| 17:29.10 | brlcad | I know some people in downtown Baltimore that would love to do 5 minutes or so of body and audio work on your car.. |
| 17:29.20 | TyroneFHornigh | People might be tempted to see how much liquid your car could absorb. |
| 17:29.39 | Spiff | Gee... thanks a lot, learner. ;) |
| 17:29.43 | Spiff | ... and JB. :) |
| 17:30.02 | Spiff | I just don't want them to nick it. |
| 17:30.02 | brlcad | lemme know when you're "in town" and I'll be sure to "hook you up" |
| 17:30.21 | Spiff | I told ya before man.. hookers are not my style! |
| 17:30.57 | brlcad | No no.. they'd pay _you_, at least you'd take it from them.. |
| 17:31.40 | Spiff | I think that re-painting the car is useless. I'll just get the crappiest looking car I can find.. then I won't *have* to paint it. |
| 17:32.55 | Spiff | Well... after sleeping until noon.. it's time to go fix my bed-head. Back in a flash. :-) |
| 17:33.08 | brlcad | If you insist |
| 17:34.43 | Patlabor221 | ahh good, they fixed mouse wheel on windows SDL :) |
| 17:35.14 | TimRiker | me thinks http://db.bzflag.org/db is probably best. thoughts? |
| 17:35.35 | brlcad | ugh.. I dispise this cheesy weak irc client for it's simplicity. I can barely notice arrivals, departures, private messages, etc |
| 17:35.56 | brlcad | the difference between a private message and a public message is one freaking character |
| 17:36.59 | bryjen | freaky characters like JB's unicode smilies ? |
| 17:38.36 | Nidhoggr | Tim: db. sounds good. |
| 17:38.38 | TyroneFHornigh | Get a better client, bry ☺ |
| 17:40.56 | TimRiker | ~lart TyroneFHornigh |
| 17:41.15 | TimRiker | ~spell decaffeinats |
| 17:41.18 | | possible spellings for decaffeinats: decaffeinates decaffeinate decaffeinated |
| 17:41.23 | Nidhoggr | heh |
| 17:41.25 | brlcad | ~:P |
| 17:41.38 | TyroneFHornigh | No thanks, I don't eat chops these days, do you have any salad? |
| 17:41.50 | TimRiker | ~salad TyroneFHornigh |
| 17:41.54 | Nidhoggr | 2 large cups of columbia roast (total of 32 oz) |
| 17:42.18 | TimRiker | ~convert 32 ounces to cups |
| 17:42.28 | TimRiker | heh |
| 17:42.32 | Nidhoggr | hrm. cuz oz is weight :) |
| 17:42.32 | TimRiker | ~convert 32 fluid ounces to cups |
| 17:42.46 | Nidhoggr | ~32/8 |
| 17:42.48 | | 4 |
| 17:43.07 | TyroneFHornigh | ~fishslap brlcad |
| 17:43.10 | | ACTION slaps brlcad up side the head with a wet fish. |
| 17:43.47 | TimRiker | ~convert 32 floz to cups |
| 17:43.55 | TyroneFHornigh | Yummm :) |
| 17:44.07 | brlcad | heh |
| 17:44.13 | Nidhoggr | err 8 |
| 17:44.30 | TyroneFHornigh | more senior moments. |
| 17:45.12 | Nidhoggr | ~nidhoggr |
| 17:45.15 | | methinks nidhoggr is a master of Typo Fu |
| 17:45.21 | Nidhoggr | :) |
| 17:45.22 | bryjen | Ty Po |
| 17:46.37 | MasterPo | Snatch the pebble from my hand, grasshopper. |
| 17:47.09 | Nidhoggr | heh |
| 17:47.52 | bryjen | no thanks. i don't know where its been. ;) |
| 17:48.20 | MasterPo | We can tell the relative ages of nid and bry from those responses :) |
| 17:48.52 | Nidhoggr | I turn 42 on Nov 16th. :) |
| 17:49.13 | MasterPo | Great age, the answer to life the Universe and Everything |
| 17:49.19 | Nidhoggr | yup |
| 17:50.38 | Nidhoggr | we nicknamed the new Kung Fu-The Legend Continues to Kung Fu-The Cliche Continues. |
| 17:50.39 | Nidhoggr | :) |
| 17:51.14 | MasterPo | I didn't see most of those. I did watch the original series pretty regularly. |
| 17:51.43 | Nidhoggr | bbiab. work calls. |
| 18:04.48 | brlcad | I miss the old Kung Fu shows.. none of the stations around here even play reruns much anymore (at least I've yet to have found it consistently) |
| 18:05.16 | *** join/#bzflag Big_Barrel (~chatzilla@adsl-64-219-214-108.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 18:05.51 | brlcad | Chestal.. *PING* |
| 18:06.10 | bryjen | wow. jumbogram ? |
| 18:06.46 | Spiff | Ya know... I read an article the other day about how too much caffine (from coffey, tea, pop, etc.) can kill you... |
| 18:07.30 | Spiff | They went on and on about it..... and then, at the end of the article, they mentioned that you'd have to drink approximately 100 cups of coffey in a period of three hours to do so. Bah! |
| 18:07.52 | Spiff | With that said.. I'm going to go eat lunch. :-) |
| 18:09.27 | *** join/#bzflag luca__ (~luca@host234-27.pool80116.interbusiness.it) |
| 18:09.37 | luca__ | hello is bzflag playable on a p 120mhz? |
| 18:09.52 | luca__ | wihout 3d acc. |
| 18:10.25 | bryjen | uh |
| 18:10.32 | bryjen | probably not |
| 18:10.36 | Patlabor221 | lowest res, everything turned off, maybe |
| 18:10.43 | luca__ | oh |
| 18:10.45 | luca__ | really? |
| 18:10.57 | Patlabor221 | it'll be chunky tho |
| 18:11.16 | Patlabor221 | I ran it on a P80 once |
| 18:11.21 | MasterPo | bzflag, chunky style ;) |
| 18:11.51 | bryjen | fugly colors that'd make you wanna chunk.... |
| 18:12.13 | luca__ | wow! |
| 18:12.17 | Patlabor221 | yeah, no textures, no lights, no shadows, no blending. your not gonna get any of that |
| 18:12.34 | luca__ | but...still playable? and understandable? |
| 18:12.49 | Patlabor221 | depends on your description of "playable" |
| 18:12.55 | Patlabor221 | all you can do is try |
| 18:13.02 | luca__ | yes i will |
| 18:18.52 | TimRiker | p200 with everything off at 640x480 should get close to 20fps |
| 18:19.13 | TimRiker | been a while since I tried that though. |
| 18:22.11 | luca__ | installed |
| 18:22.16 | luca__ | i am ready to try it |
| 18:22.53 | larsl | Good luck. =) |
| 18:25.42 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-126-88.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 18:29.34 | Bagheera | man, wouldnt it be nice if we could actually play purple panzers borg world...... |
| 18:31.26 | Tupone | BZ versioning is now too selective IMHO, version is changed to 1.9.4 and no server are reachable |
| 18:31.36 | Tupone | s/are/is/ |
| 18:32.24 | *** join/#bzflag larsl (~larsl@c213-100-62-55.swipnet.se) |
| 18:32.56 | Nidhoggr | woo.. I can play 1.9 stuff now. |
| 18:33.10 | Nidhoggr | I'll have to experiment later. |
| 18:33.19 | Tupone | No public server now |
| 18:33.40 | Nidhoggr | I'll put one up when I start testing. |
| 18:33.41 | Nidhoggr | :) |
| 18:34.12 | Tupone | There are some, actually! |
| 18:34.17 | Bagheera | really?.....i just downloaded 1.9.4.BETA and went to one of the three sites listed......maybe the list server is messed up |
| 18:34.24 | luca__ | too slow |
| 18:34.40 | luca__ | 1.9? |
| 18:34.42 | luca__ | really? |
| 18:34.45 | luca__ | what's new? |
| 18:34.54 | Bagheera | have you lowered your resolution...???....ie, what are you running with now |
| 18:35.00 | luca__ | of course |
| 18:35.05 | luca__ | everything off |
| 18:35.12 | luca__ | at 640x480 |
| 18:35.20 | Bagheera | .....sry to hear that... |
| 18:36.09 | *** topic/#bzflag by TimRiker -> LIST SERVER MOVED bzflist://12.237.229.200:5156/ || http://BZFlag.org/ || http://list.BZFlag.org/ || http://stats.BZFlag.org/ || forums http://bzbb.bzflag.org || cvs snapshots: http://sfsnap.babylonia.flatirons.org/ Win32 http://www.bakadigital.com/BZ/19 || http://students.cs.byu.edu/~cs470ta/labs/PfieldsLab.html |
| 18:36.10 | luca__ | i am on a p120 mhz, redhat 9, xfree 4.3, s3 trio64 card... |
| 18:36.45 | luca__ | what's new in 1.9? |
| 18:36.52 | Nidhoggr | lots and lots :) |
| 18:36.52 | Bagheera | yeah, sounds painful.......lowest I personally have played with is 300MHz |
| 18:37.05 | Tupone | new flag, and rabbit mode |
| 18:37.17 | luca__ | can i turn around while jumping ? |
| 18:37.32 | Nidhoggr | nope |
| 18:37.36 | luca__ | what do you mean "rabbit mode" |
| 18:37.39 | Tupone | if you started turning, yes |
| 18:37.40 | luca__ | no? damn...:-( |
| 18:37.50 | Tupone | One against all the other |
| 18:38.13 | Tupone | caccia alla lepre |
| 18:38.22 | luca__ | hehe forte |
| 18:39.12 | luca__ | that feature should be implemented...i think it has been already asked for by the users, right? |
| 18:39.50 | Tupone | start turning while jumping ... I don' think so |
| 18:40.20 | Tupone | Perhaps a new flag |
| 18:41.12 | luca__ | well..i think every player attempts to turn right or left at the beginning, becouse it is natural |
| 18:42.03 | larsl | It's natural to turn when you're in the air? |
| 18:42.09 | luca__ | yes |
| 18:42.15 | larsl | How would you do that? |
| 18:42.31 | Tupone | Shooting |
| 18:42.37 | luca__ | yeah hehe |
| 18:42.43 | Tupone | if the gun is notat center |
| 18:42.44 | *** join/#bzflag learner (~sean@barley.cs.jhu.edu) |
| 18:42.59 | learner | jeesh, I'm running out of machines I can connect from |
| 18:43.10 | luca__ | like cats falling down from the window |
| 18:43.10 | Nidhoggr | why's that, learner? |
| 18:43.14 | larsl | No, the bullets are going out from the middle of the tank, wouldn't add any angular momentum. |
| 18:43.35 | larsl | Ah, sorry, didn't see your line. |
| 18:43.36 | *** join/#bzflag learner (~sean@barley.cs.jhu.edu) |
| 18:43.48 | learner | *sigh* |
| 18:43.55 | learner | connection problems |
| 18:43.57 | Nidhoggr | what's the problem, learner? |
| 18:44.05 | Nidhoggr | ah |
| 18:44.07 | learner | my connection at home was cut last week |
| 18:44.17 | Nidhoggr | why? |
| 18:44.24 | Nidhoggr | :( |
| 18:44.30 | learner | I'm told they will be fixing the problem tomorrow and be back up |
| 18:44.40 | Nidhoggr | yay |
| 18:44.42 | Nidhoggr | cool |
| 18:44.49 | learner | in the meantime, I'm hoping through 3 servers to get to one that can make an irc connection |
| 18:44.58 | learner | it took me hours to find a way in here last week |
| 18:45.12 | niksie | you seem to be on IRC atm |
| 18:45.13 | learner | and that host just went down on me |
| 18:45.36 | learner | if I lost this one, I'm SOL until tomorrow |
| 18:46.57 | brlcad | wee |
| 18:47.44 | Bagheera | dang. learner is back.......where did i put that shovel......... |
| 18:47.54 | Nidhoggr | heh |
| 18:48.19 | Nidhoggr | dog and pony show at work |
| 18:48.39 | brlcad | ~bury learner |
| 18:48.51 | brlcad | heh, random guess/try :) |
| 18:50.38 | Nidhoggr | heh |
| 18:50.40 | Nidhoggr | how is it? |
| 18:51.32 | Bagheera | viagra is amazing isnt it |
| 18:51.40 | brlcad | ~bury Bagheera |
| 18:51.43 | | ibot dumps 42 tons of dirt, manure, and fish heads on Bagheera |
| 18:51.49 | brlcad | hehe |
| 18:52.08 | Nidhoggr | I get too much viagra spam. :( |
| 18:52.26 | Bagheera | nothing like the smell of fish heads and manure in the morning....... |
| 18:52.41 | Bagheera | not |
| 18:52.44 | Nidhoggr | heh |
| 18:52.59 | Patlabor221 | and people say I've got a dirty mind |
| 18:54.09 | Nidhoggr | I have to censor myself a lot. |
| 18:54.20 | Nidhoggr | censer |
| 18:54.26 | Nidhoggr | ~dict censer |
| 18:54.37 | Nidhoggr | ~dict censor |
| 18:54.39 | TimRiker | hehe |
| 18:54.46 | Nidhoggr | that's the one. |
| 18:56.02 | Nidhoggr | being a priest, I have had a number of people censer me. :) |
| 18:56.14 | Bagheera | how do you deal with smoke and burns? |
| 18:56.17 | Tupone | TimRiker: don think versioning is too strong? 1.9.3 server seeems to me are not reachable from 1.9.4 client |
| 18:56.37 | Nidhoggr | the smoke can be a little thick, but don't usually have problem with burning. |
| 18:56.59 | Nidhoggr | have you seen people in an orthodox church use a censer? |
| 18:57.19 | Nidhoggr | they swing it like some sort of circus thing. |
| 18:57.38 | Bagheera | keeps the parishiners alert |
| 18:57.44 | Nidhoggr | that's for sure. |
| 18:58.09 | Nidhoggr | I'm a little more gentle with the censer, since I've seen a charcoal launch itself onto a nice new wood floor before. |
| 18:59.24 | brlcad | server should probably only parse major and minor number, or perhaps the BZFS1094 should have the last digit stripped |
| 19:00.14 | Tupone | I think so too. Just trying to find the code that do the compare! |
| 19:00.30 | bryjen | Tupone: 1.9.4 still uses protocol 1903, works here. list server issues for you? |
| 19:00.33 | larsl | Isn't the protocol still 1903? |
| 19:01.08 | Tupone | I saw no server before, after a while a see all the server but updated 1.9.4 |
| 19:01.28 | Tupone | don't know if it is a temporary problem |
| 19:01.36 | Tupone | network, I mean |
| 19:01.46 | Patlabor221 | the proto didn't change |
| 19:01.58 | Patlabor221 | just a bump for the beta build |
| 19:02.00 | Tupone | so was my network |
| 19:02.25 | larsl | Patlabor221: Did you get my message about the RPM? |
| 19:03.48 | Tupone | No protocol problem, just eyes problem! |
| 19:05.03 | bryjen | bzflag.xgarreau.org seems to still be 1.9.3, and it is in the list when i look with 1.9.4 client. |
| 19:07.38 | Tupone | Thats OK. No real problem. 'cause protocol is still 1.9.3 |
| 19:08.19 | Tupone | For the future we could put a range of admitted values on the client. Just an idea |
| 19:08.40 | larsl | Should the client display servers with a different protocol? |
| 19:08.56 | larsl | It probably can't play on them anyway. |
| 19:09.25 | Nidhoggr | if it does, it should be a command line switch for troubleshooting, but not a default. |
| 19:09.43 | Tupone | If we are going to change protocol like the version, I suppose we can play a lot of version |
| 19:09.58 | larsl | Tupone: We are not, the protocol isn't coupled to the version. |
| 19:10.09 | larsl | We just started counting at 1903 because it sounded nice. =) |
| 19:10.23 | Nidhoggr | :) |
| 19:10.33 | Tupone | OK! Just confused! |
| 19:11.08 | Tupone | Next version 1.10 should have 1.9.3 has protocol version, if nothing really change |
| 19:11.23 | larsl | Exactly. |
| 19:11.29 | larsl | BZFS1903 |
| 19:12.26 | Nidhoggr | wow victims have had 11111 minutes with the ST flag since we started keeping stats. |
| 19:13.47 | Nidhoggr | 29958 flagless kills, and 7161 kills with GM |
| 19:15.54 | bryjen | total kills? |
| 19:16.18 | Nidhoggr | don't have a total column yet. we should. |
| 19:16.19 | Nidhoggr | :) |
| 19:16.42 | Nidhoggr | http://bzflag.secretplace.us/flag.php |
| 19:17.59 | bryjen | webmaster Nidhoggr: 404 |
| 19:18.02 | Nidhoggr | err flags. |
| 19:18.15 | Nidhoggr | ~Nidhoggr |
| 19:18.19 | | well, nidhoggr is a master of Typo Fu |
| 19:18.38 | [dmp] | Cool stats |
| 19:18.43 | Nidhoggr | fanks. |
| 19:18.45 | Nidhoggr | we are gunna do more. |
| 19:18.51 | Nidhoggr | just gotta get time to code it. |
| 19:18.55 | [dmp] | How do you collect 'em? |
| 19:19.05 | Nidhoggr | modified bzfs |
| 19:19.09 | [dmp] | ah |
| 19:19.19 | Nidhoggr | added date and time stamping and different message format. |
| 19:19.52 | [dmp] | I guess I should rewrite the ladder stuff as a add-on for bzflag, so each serveradmin can run their own stats,without this pollilng as i do now. |
| 19:20.00 | [dmp] | Would be much nicer |
| 19:20.17 | Nidhoggr | once 1.10 gets done, we'll make a patch for the logging changes. |
| 19:20.20 | Spiff | Good idea, [dmp]. :-) |
| 19:21.12 | larsl | [dmp]: And report to a central site once a day if they want to? |
| 19:21.47 | [dmp] | larsl: Havnt really given it much thinking. But the current "solution" is one big hack :) |
| 19:22.17 | [dmp] | larsl: But some kinda of collection (eg for ducati-servers) would be a requirement, i think |
| 19:22.20 | Chestal | brlcad: pong |
| 19:22.51 | Nidhoggr | http://secretplace.us/bzflag.log for a sample of the mod'd log format. |
| 19:23.01 | Spiff | Ping pong? :) |
| 19:23.58 | [dmp] | Nidhoggr: so basically you got some script that parses this logfile and store it in some form of database? |
| 19:24.02 | Nidhoggr | yes. |
| 19:24.17 | Nidhoggr | and a script that lets me read the logs in a tail -f so I can see what's going on on the server. |
| 19:24.29 | [dmp] | :) |
| 19:24.36 | Nidhoggr | script can detect TK, etc. |
| 19:25.04 | [dmp] | gives alot of possibities :) |
| 19:25.08 | Nidhoggr | that's the idea. |
| 19:25.24 | larsl | Nidhoggr: Do you store each log line as a table row in the database? How much space does it need? |
| 19:25.26 | Nidhoggr | I can have scripts monitor the server, and use bzadmin to join and handle some admin functins. |
| 19:25.40 | Nidhoggr | larsl, right now it's a mysql database. |
| 19:26.28 | [dmp] | I need to rewrite all ladder-scripts if I want them to continue running without too much problems. Would be a nice time to think about doing it right (or better, at least :)) |
| 19:26.47 | larsl | Righter. =) |
| 19:27.11 | Nidhoggr | [root@logos logs]# du -s /var/lib/mysql/spstats/ |
| 19:27.11 | Nidhoggr | 4956 /var/lib/mysql/spstats |
| 19:27.32 | Nidhoggr | that's now much it is taking up now. |
| 19:27.42 | larsl | That's not too bad. |
| 19:27.46 | Nidhoggr | nope. |
| 19:28.44 | [dmp] | daisy:/var/lib/mysql# du -s bzflag/ |
| 19:28.44 | [dmp] | 528516 bzflag |
| 19:28.47 | [dmp] | :) |
| 19:29.52 | [dmp] | But after i got the extra memory, i dont notice mysql anymore (except for the "thank-you"/"you lag" messages i receive) |
| 19:37.04 | TimRiker | [dmp]: should be part of the new db server. SETNUM calls should contain username references at some point so there is no polling. |
| 19:37.26 | Chestal | *sigh* I once again come to the conclusion that lag is bzflag biggest problem |
| 19:37.30 | Chestal | far bigger than cheating etc. |
| 19:37.43 | Chestal | and I really don't see anythign that can be done about it |
| 19:37.49 | MasterPo | It's often easy to mistake one for the other. |
| 19:38.00 | larsl | I don't think that lag is a big problem. |
| 19:38.08 | Chestal | it's by far the biggest problem |
| 19:38.15 | Chestal | cheating doesnt concern me |
| 19:38.27 | Chestal | I don't think I have seencheating for some months on my server |
| 19:38.34 | Chestal | not when I was playing anyway |
| 19:38.46 | MasterPo | We can do away with the extraneous overhead of tcp and use a library which offers reliable udp. |
| 19:38.59 | Chestal | that won't help |
| 19:39.17 | Chestal | increasing the speed of light might |
| 19:39.19 | MasterPo | I've seen a fair amount of cheating on ducati, some subtle, some not. |
| 19:39.30 | MasterPo | It wouldn't hurt. |
| 19:39.31 | Chestal | when it's subtle, you are only guessing |
| 19:40.08 | Tupone | kinda of ntp should help? |
| 19:40.10 | MasterPo | True, but we all do a bit of educated guessing in this business, especially when dealing with hardware and timing issues. |
| 19:40.30 | Chestal | yes, but I want to believe that usually, nocheatign is involved |
| 19:40.44 | Chestal | of course peopel could've reduced the radius for the hit check |
| 19:40.54 | Chestal | and I cannot really tell, but I believe that's not the issue here |
| 19:41.09 | MasterPo | I would prefer to believe that as well, so I think we're in violent agreement :) |
| 19:41.12 | Chestal | the only thing we might be abke to do is to enhance the lag statistics |
| 19:41.33 | MasterPo | or centralize some game state. |
| 19:41.40 | Chestal | so we would at least have some kind of objective metric to judge lag |
| 19:41.51 | Chestal | yes, one can go along that route |
| 19:41.58 | Chestal | but I fear it itnroduces problems of its own |
| 19:42.23 | Chestal | a first step would be to include time stamps for all movement and shot packets |
| 19:42.25 | MasterPo | Of course, but I'm willing to wander down all of the paths and list the pros and cons of each. |
| 19:42.27 | Nidhoggr | our new logging mechanism uses time stamping now. |
| 19:42.31 | Chestal | server woudl then be able to measure jitter |
| 19:43.12 | MasterPo | time stamps introduced by server as a packet arrives or by client as packet is sent? |
| 19:43.22 | Chestal | client |
| 19:44.01 | MasterPo | we can deal with the issues of synchronization. |
| 19:44.07 | Tupone | stealing something from ntp to synchronize client? don't know how much is complicated |
| 19:44.22 | Chestal | the lag will always be there |
| 19:44.27 | Chestal | no way to get away with it |
| 19:44.31 | MasterPo | assume it's a solved problem and then we can proceed. |
| 19:44.36 | Chestal | we can only try to push the disadvantage around |
| 19:45.04 | Chestal | so for example when server is master, players with lag will have the main disadvantage |
| 19:45.11 | Chestal | right now it's a bit hard to tell who suffers most |
| 19:45.36 | MasterPo | It looks like the players with more lag have an advantage since others never know where to shoot. |
| 19:46.19 | Tupone | They too shoot where opponent was |
| 19:46.27 | Chestal | well, you coudl reason that way when there is one player with a higher lag than everyone else |
| 19:46.53 | Chestal | so for them, all other players lag the same |
| 19:47.05 | Chestal | but for theother players, the one player behaves differently, so they will have to readjust all the timr |
| 19:47.13 | Chestal | even worse when the lagger's lag is not constant |
| 19:47.35 | Chestal | but whatever you do, you cannot really satisfy everyone |
| 19:47.43 | Chestal | and I am not talking of major lag here, liek >300ms |
| 19:47.44 | MasterPo | That's just my impression from my perspective. I've seen games where multiple players lag significantly. Shooting ahead doesn't help since they've changed direction several times by the time the shot arrives. |
| 19:47.50 | Chestal | even 150ms for evryone seems to be too much |
| 19:47.54 | luca__ | 1.9 is unstable? |
| 19:48.01 | Chestal | at least judging by current lagstats |
| 19:48.45 | Chestal | we could also include a further number in some of the player's packets, maybe in the ping responses |
| 19:48.52 | Chestal | it oculd be the total numebr of UDP packets received |
| 19:48.59 | Chestal | to get a more accurate percentage of lost packets |
| 19:49.12 | Chestal | lost packets aer especially annoying because the lagger might not receive a shot |
| 19:50.13 | MasterPo | That's one of the interesting cheats floating around right now, clients deliberately dropping certain packets. |
| 19:52.06 | MasterPo | So what you have described can give us a measurement of the network characteristics for each player, but what do we do with that information? |
| 19:52.13 | Chestal | oh, well, enough whing, but this is really destryoign my faith in the future of bzflag |
| 19:52.21 | Chestal | display it |
| 19:52.27 | Chestal | include it in lagstats |
| 19:52.39 | Chestal | if it correlates with 'felt' lag it would be useful |
| 19:52.59 | Chestal | right now you often have the case, that some opponent feels laggy for you |
| 19:53.05 | Chestal | but you cannot see that in lagstats |
| 19:53.10 | Tupone | synchronize presentation ... if we have timestamp |
| 19:53.25 | Chestal | timestamp could be used to compensate some of the jitter |
| 19:53.32 | Chestal | not sure if it would really hel, though |
| 19:53.40 | [dmp] | is there any info about this new DB server? |
| 19:53.47 | MasterPo | We can't synchronize the presentation since we would be constantly trying to catch up. |
| 19:53.53 | Tupone | we can future some positional information |
| 19:54.20 | MasterPo | That happens now, and we get phantom tanks popping out and then popping back when we can catch up. |
| 19:54.43 | Tupone | that is only dead reckoning |
| 19:55.20 | Tupone | We now don't have timestamp so we don't know when a tank is where |
| 19:55.40 | Chestal | timestamp is IMHO only useful to detect (and maybe compensate) jitter |
| 19:55.58 | Chestal | projection to compensate latency is not a good idea for bzflag |
| 19:56.13 | Tupone | WYM by compensate |
| 19:56.16 | MasterPo | I think I agree with Chestal, but I'm willing to listen to ideas. |
| 19:56.21 | TimRiker | that differnt than dead reconning? |
| 19:56.39 | Chestal | well, I amnot sure it can really be done |
| 19:56.48 | Chestal | but let's assume latency of player A is 100ms usually |
| 19:56.55 | Chestal | but now and then a packets takes 120ms |
| 19:57.09 | Chestal | then this jitter can be detected by timestamps |
| 19:57.29 | Chestal | and client could simply not use the current time as basis for dead reckoning but current time - 20ms |
| 19:57.46 | Chestal | the onl yproblem is the 100ms, in my example it;s known. In practice it's now |
| 19:57.46 | TimRiker | ah |
| 19:57.48 | Chestal | eh, not |
| 19:58.14 | Chestal | but it would be nice to know about the jitter in the first place |
| 19:59.10 | Chestal | and lost packets, too |
| 19:59.13 | TimRiker | we should add a usec timestanp to the msgs, and then do some stats on the servers. |
| 20:02.15 | *** join/#bzflag mmu_man (~revol@ALyon-209-1-19-181.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:02.19 | Chestal | I'm wondering when to use getCurrent() and getTick() and whether this is used appropriately everywhere |
| 20:07.27 | *** join/#bzflag Legolas (~topgunp38@adsl-68-73-88-118.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net) |
| 20:21.06 | *** join/#bzflag PatlaborTRIL (~JeffM@208.48.199.216) |
| 20:23.49 | *** join/#bzflag Agent86 (chris@1Cust28.tnt5.dfw9.da.uu.net) |
| 20:43.00 | Nidhoggr | Tim, did you see the time stuff and server stats that we are currently doing on secretplace? |
| 21:25.15 | TimRiker | Nidhoggr: nope. |
| 21:27.19 | Nidhoggr | http://bzflag.secretplace.us/flags.php and the log format sample is http://secretplace.us/bzflag.log |
| 21:27.48 | Nidhoggr | the flags stats is a beginning of a much larger project. the log allows us to parse for the reports. |
| 21:28.32 | Nidhoggr | we also have tools to make the logs more human readable for monitoring. |
| 21:28.58 | Nidhoggr | server logs in new format, script parses, and adds to mysql database |
| 21:29.41 | brlcad | what's with the funky epoch timestamping? :) |
| 21:29.41 | Nidhoggr | my developer friend is going to make same mods for 1.10 as soon as there is a release. |
| 21:29.51 | Nidhoggr | it's parsable with perl ;) |
| 21:30.07 | MasterPo | It's easy to create the log, and as Nidhoggr says. |
| 21:30.19 | PatlaborTRIL | *sigh* I guess I'll have to use this 21 dual swiching nano the just droped off here |
| 21:30.29 | *** part/#bzflag drinian (~drinian@pcp153139pcs.hamntn01.nj.comcast.net) |
| 21:31.21 | MasterPo | From the condition of your desk, you don't have room. I'll come take it off your hands. ;) |
| 21:32.27 | Nidhoggr | the big thing I want to be able to do is track by callsign/ip, etc. |
| 21:33.24 | MasterPo | The flag stats are interesting if we ever want to balance the playability of some of the flags. |
| 21:33.34 | Nidhoggr | nod |
| 21:33.49 | MasterPo | Do you maintain an even distribution, or are some flags rarer? |
| 21:33.51 | Nidhoggr | we just wanted something to show it off a little. |
| 21:34.11 | Nidhoggr | actually, some are more common, not necessarily more rare. |
| 21:34.17 | PatlaborTRIL | it's gonna replace a 19 |
| 21:34.19 | Nidhoggr | like I do a bunch of +CL +ST |
| 21:34.28 | brlcad | It seemed like there was a limit to how many flags it would throw on the field, as well.. |
| 21:34.37 | Nidhoggr | because people complain about too many GM/L |
| 21:34.59 | Nidhoggr | so I add CL ST in abundance. |
| 21:35.00 | MasterPo | That shows that GM is a little too powerful, since it's responsible for the most kills, and there are more ST to counteract. |
| 21:35.03 | brlcad | I'd specify _a_lot_ of flags and it would seem to always cap at 100 or so |
| 21:35.36 | brlcad | the distribution on the ground didn't seem too random either when it did have to cap |
| 21:35.49 | Nidhoggr | this was more of an experiment which I think will start to show a lot about how people play, etc. |
| 21:37.04 | MasterPo | Send him a memo |
| 21:37.11 | Nidhoggr | how do you do that? |
| 21:37.18 | MasterPo | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:37.21 | brlcad | heh, you could calculate a player's "flag affinity" :) |
| 21:37.51 | brlcad | grasp the pebble firmly, young grasshopper.. |
| 21:38.00 | MasterPo | You might be able to detect a subtle cheat that way. |
| 21:39.59 | Nidhoggr | heh |
| 21:40.26 | MasterPo | Old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm. :) |
| 21:41.37 | Nidhoggr | here here |
| 21:43.12 | MasterPo | I bet they never taught you that one in the Shaolin Temple. :) |
| 21:45.46 | brlcad | *hiccup* .. nope, daze nevr saids a wurd bout age n treh*hiccup*ry |
| 21:46.33 | MasterPo | heh |
| 21:46.57 | Nidhoggr | it's part of the unspoken wisdom. |
| 21:50.21 | *** part/#bzflag KR (~k@cae168-234-054.sc.rr.com) |
| 22:01.17 | *** join/#bzflag mmu_man (~revol@ALyon-209-1-19-181.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 22:05.43 | Bagheera | ~seen quol |
| 22:05.44 | | quol <~quolsimo@65.39.216.149> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 16h 26m 39s ago, saying: 'G'night'. |
| 22:16.52 | TimRiker | Nidhoggr: use a -log option or something? |
| 22:16.58 | Nidhoggr | nod |
| 22:17.08 | Nidhoggr | what do ya think? |
| 22:17.11 | TimRiker | I'd be fine with having that added. |
| 22:17.12 | Nidhoggr | initial impression |
| 22:17.15 | Nidhoggr | cool. |
| 22:17.33 | Nidhoggr | when the 1.10 code is released, he said he'll code it in. |
| 22:17.39 | TimRiker | sounds useful for local stats, never going to see that much detail sent to the central server. |
| 22:18.02 | Nidhoggr | nod. |
| 22:18.03 | TimRiker | a 1.7 patch could go in on the 1.7 tree if you like. |
| 22:18.17 | Nidhoggr | he wants to work on it a bit more. |
| 22:18.19 | TimRiker | and tools can go in to another module in cvs if you like. |
| 22:18.24 | Nidhoggr | nod |
| 22:18.31 | TimRiker | he have cvs write access? |
| 22:18.36 | Nidhoggr | nope. |
| 22:18.48 | TimRiker | welcome to get it for that purpose. |
| 22:18.50 | Nidhoggr | I dunno if he even has a sourceforge acct. |
| 22:18.53 | Nidhoggr | I'll let ya know. |
| 22:18.55 | TimRiker | k |
| 22:19.16 | Nidhoggr | I am finding it really useful, so I thought others might as well. |
| 22:20.14 | brlcad | It's great for the interim ;) |
| 22:20.20 | Nidhoggr | nod |
| 22:20.51 | Nidhoggr | I got nils addicted to bzflag, and then interested in the server code/stats. |
| 22:21.09 | TimRiker | brlcad: even for the long run. it's got more detail than we'd want to add to the bzfs->bzfls channel. |
| 22:21.20 | TimRiker | Nidhoggr: hehe |
| 22:21.21 | *** join/#bzflag patlabor221 (~jeffm@208.48.199.202) |
| 22:21.21 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 22:22.02 | brlcad | Until some monkey (like me) finally gets around to setting up a proper logging system |
| 22:22.08 | Nidhoggr | hiya patlabor221 |
| 22:22.13 | patlabor221 | hello |
| 22:22.47 | Nidhoggr | timestamped logging is vital for me. I can send timestamped logs to ISPs for abusers, if need be.. otherwise, they don't really take you seriously. |
| 22:24.15 | brlcad | A bzfs logging system in the spirits/configurability of apache's system is what I'm leaning towards doing in the rather near future |
| 22:24.23 | Nidhoggr | nod |
| 22:24.25 | Nidhoggr | that would be good. |
| 22:24.39 | Nidhoggr | maybe nils could help you out. |
| 22:24.47 | Nidhoggr | he'd probably be interested |
| 22:24.49 | brlcad | maybe he could just do it =) |
| 22:25.12 | brlcad | mirror it as close as possible .. have a logging object that data flows through |
| 22:25.35 | brlcad | or help is always good too :) |
| 22:25.48 | Nidhoggr | I'll mention it to him. |
| 22:26.23 | Nidhoggr | he was talking about making it more unix daemon-like. |
| 22:26.36 | Nidhoggr | which probably would include a logging object. |
| 22:26.39 | brlcad | *gasp* |
| 22:26.54 | brlcad | you mean actually have it respond to signals etc? :) |
| 22:26.54 | Nidhoggr | :) |
| 22:26.55 | CIA | 03atupone * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (Region.cxx): Avoiding/removing duplicated code via some var exchange. |
| 22:27.19 | Nidhoggr | kill -1 for log restarting :) |
| 22:27.36 | brlcad | kill -HUP to reset |
| 22:27.46 | Nidhoggr | same signal ;) |
| 22:28.30 | *** part/#bzflag chandler (~chandler@64-145-60-36.client.dsl.net) |
| 22:29.15 | brlcad | yep. and INT to kick everyone off :) |
| 22:29.21 | Nidhoggr | w00 |
| 22:29.52 | brlcad | have it dump a stack trace on SEGV... |
| 22:29.59 | brlcad | okay, I'm dreaming now.. |
| 22:30.04 | TimRiker | hehe |
| 22:30.27 | Nidhoggr | :) |
| 22:31.21 | *** join/#bzflag Agent86 (chris@1Cust90.tnt6.dfw9.da.uu.net) |
| 22:32.25 | brlcad | I could do the stack trace generation for most of the linux/unix users, but it would be rather gdb/dbx specific |
| 22:33.39 | TimRiker | ifdef __linux__ ;-) |
| 22:34.12 | brlcad | || __APPLE__ || FreeBSD || NetBSD || .. ad nausium :( |
| 22:34.38 | brlcad | or perhaps if !defined(__WIN32) ;) |
| 22:34.49 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (bryjen@ky-owensboro1a-242.owboky.adelphia.net) |
| 22:35.51 | brlcad | Hrm.. maybe I'll play with that some tonight for kicks |
| 22:38.44 | CIA | 03larsl * 12bzflag/misc (2 files): Added simple initscript for SysV-ish systems and a wrapper script to use with it that nohups bzflag |
| 22:40.17 | bryjen | patlabor221: ping |
| 22:41.30 | patlabor221 | ??? |
| 22:41.53 | bryjen | is bakadigital.com down? |
| 22:41.55 | patlabor221 | sorry I have not been folliwng anytning |
| 22:41.59 | patlabor221 | ohh yeah bigtime |
| 22:42.15 | Nidhoggr | good thing I got my bzedit copy last night. :) |
| 22:43.11 | patlabor221 | bzedit is also in CVS |
| 22:46.38 | Nidhoggr | I am so happy about my new computer. |
| 22:46.48 | Nidhoggr | I'll take pics of it tonight and post them online. :) |
| 23:05.30 | *** join/#bzflag triclops (~triclops@203-219-160-62-nsw.tpgi.com.au) |
| 23:07.59 | Nidhoggr | I'm considering getting a T1 to my house through work. |
| 23:09.30 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-224-94.dialup.innercite.com) |
| 23:14.57 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@proxyle01.ext.ti.com) |
| 23:14.58 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 23:32.26 | bryjen | ~bryjen |
| 23:32.28 | | hmm... bryjen is just plain sensless |
| 23:32.39 | bryjen | oh really? |
| 23:32.44 | brlcad | Hrm.. how to enable a signal-based error handler.. Would people prefer it be attached to the autoconf --enable-debug option or provided during runtime when given a --debug or something akin? |
| 23:34.28 | bryjen | ~bryjen |
| 23:34.36 | brlcad | I'm thinking that during run-time is the most flexible |
| 23:34.42 | bryjen | that's better. in a way. |
| 23:35.01 | brlcad | would you rather it say "Not a Player"? :) |
| 23:35.13 | bryjen | ~literal bryjen |
| 23:35.15 | | bryjen is <reply> see bzfquery bryjen.bzflag.org |
| 23:35.52 | bryjen | ~brlcad |
| 23:36.36 | brlcad | ~brlcad |
| 23:36.37 | | learner |
| 23:36.42 | bryjen | ~literal brlcad |
| 23:36.43 | | brlcad is <reply>learner |
| 23:36.52 | brlcad | :) |
| 23:36.52 | bryjen | ~learner |
| 23:36.53 | | methinks learner is your friend |
| 23:37.42 | bryjen | ibot: no, brlcad is <reply> see learner |
| 23:37.43 | | okay, bryjen |
| 23:37.48 | bryjen | ~brlcad |
| 23:37.49 | | i guess learner is your friend |
| 23:38.52 | brlcad | ah, the intricacies of that complicated lady named ibot :) |
| 23:39.39 | *** join/#bzflag nook (~jlo@243.212.8.67.cfl.rr.com) |
| 23:40.47 | brlcad | it's J.Lo |
| 23:42.28 | brlcad | Oh SWEET! Baltimore inner harbor is getting wireless =) |
| 23:42.42 | DTRemenak | reading /.? |
| 23:42.50 | brlcad | yep |
| 23:42.57 | brlcad | I'm a little late today |
| 23:42.59 | DTRemenak | thought so :) |
| 23:43.41 | brlcad | It'll be interesting to see how popular the Cafe shops get :) |
| 23:44.46 | DTRemenak | indeed...you have a wireless device? |
| 23:44.53 | brlcad | Of course! |
| 23:45.48 | DTRemenak | and I suppose you have your favorite hotspots around town? |
| 23:45.50 | brlcad | It compliments my house wired network rather nicely for when I want to go out on the the deck, roast some weenies, and write code =) |
| 23:46.51 | brlcad | Actually, i've yet to find a wireless access point not at a university -- but it's great when I go to siggraph or other conferences/hotels/etc |
| 23:47.06 | DTRemenak | lol |
| 23:49.10 | brlcad | alrighty, I've read my news .. time to wander home |
| 23:50.25 | DTRemenak | have fun |
