| 00:06.31 | TimRiker | ~bzflist |
| 00:06.49 | TimRiker | xmission seems to be real popular. ;-) |
| 00:06.57 | captain_proton | indeed |
| 00:07.10 | captain_proton | any word on possible employment? |
| 00:15.51 | *** join/#bzflag jzaun (~jzaun@jzaun.static.telerama.com) |
| 00:18.31 | TimRiker | working out some contract stuff at the moment. |
| 00:18.40 | TimRiker | ~bzflist |
| 00:22.14 | TimRiker | cpu spin does not seem to be happening lately. go figure. =( |
| 00:32.50 | fontenot | heisenbug |
| 00:39.22 | scan[ibook] | heisenbugs are more interesting on SMP systems |
| 00:47.24 | sussudio | Moderating... |
| 00:47.24 | sussudio | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:47.27 | sussudio | dumdadum...... |
| 00:47.40 | *** join/#bzflag paul (~paul@hibernia.jakma.org) |
| 01:08.59 | fiberchunks | woohoo, bzflag plays nicely on my new laptop (must upgrade to 1.7g0 though, mdk9 comes with 1.7e6) |
| 01:18.51 | fiberchunks | who is the idiot that invented these damned case labels?!?!?! |
| 01:18.52 | fiberchunks | :\ |
| 01:28.30 | scanline | my doug suppression device seems to work |
| 01:30.34 | *** part/#bzflag jzaun (~jzaun@jzaun.static.telerama.com) |
| 01:31.32 | jraitala | I wonder which version of bind9 I should use, 9.2.1 or 9.2.2rc1 |
| 01:32.43 | MrDoug | ? |
| 01:32.59 | MrDoug | that slick bot? |
| 01:33.37 | TimRiker | ~bzflist |
| 01:53.45 | *** join/#bzflag shut (~shut@aden2-142-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 01:56.49 | *** join/#bzflag shut (~shut@aden2-142-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 01:57.18 | *** join/#bzflag shut (~shut@aden2-142-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 02:01.27 | *** join/#bzflag shut (~shut@aden2-142-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 02:01.45 | scanline | shut: don't crash this time :P |
| 02:03.11 | jraitala | ~ducatictf |
| 02:09.39 | MrDoug | slick |
| 02:10.09 | *** join/#bzflag gonkulator (~brandon@h-69-3-123-157.DNVTCO56.covad.net) |
| 02:13.46 | scanline | hi gonkulator |
| 02:13.52 | gonkulator | hi scanline |
| 02:15.54 | *** join/#bzflag Jormungandr (mandrake@dragon.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 02:16.13 | *** join/#bzflag snyke (~snyke@eros.bingo-ev.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 02:16.14 | *** join/#bzflag gonkulator (~brandon@h-69-3-123-157.DNVTCO56.covad.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 02:16.15 | *** join/#bzflag paul (~paul@212.17.36.87) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 02:20.15 | *** join/#bzflag Chestal (thilo@vmax.unix-ag.uni-siegen.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 02:20.16 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Chestal] by ChanServ |
| 02:36.22 | Jormungandr | wow.. alien hentai tentacle rape spam at work. |
| 02:36.57 | MrDoug | how long would a 3 meg file download over a 33kb modem? |
| 02:37.11 | scanline | 1.21 jiggaseconds |
| 02:37.15 | Jormungandr | :) |
| 02:37.25 | MrDoug | in english |
| 02:37.32 | captain_proton | that was in english |
| 02:37.34 | captain_proton | you want it in engrish? |
| 02:37.37 | MrDoug | standard universal cordinated time |
| 02:37.56 | Jormungandr | snork |
| 02:38.27 | Jormungandr | maybe we need a traffic control bot now. |
| 02:38.31 | Jormungandr | :) |
| 02:38.43 | Jormungandr | hahahahaha |
| 02:38.44 | MrDoug | I was asking a question |
| 02:38.49 | scanline | MrDoug: I'm sure someone would have run "~sud" anyway, so this saved one line |
| 02:38.55 | MrDoug | hmm |
| 02:38.58 | MrDoug | true.. |
| 02:39.00 | *** join/#bzflag fiberchunks_ (~fiberchun@237.14.252.64.snet.net) |
| 02:39.02 | MrDoug | ~forget sud |
| 02:39.02 | | cannot alter locked factoids, MrDoug |
| 02:39.05 | MrDoug | yea |
| 02:39.08 | MrDoug | thought so |
| 02:39.11 | Jormungandr | :) |
| 02:40.04 | Jormungandr | I had to use ! instead of ~ for my blootbot, cuz ssh uses ~ as an escape character and you have to hit it twice if it is first character on a new line. |
| 02:40.16 | MrDoug | hah |
| 02:40.35 | Jormungandr | good idea. |
| 02:40.45 | scanline | bah |
| 02:40.47 | MrDoug | how do I do that? |
| 02:40.51 | scanline | hahaha |
| 02:40.57 | captain_proton | ~sud |
| 02:40.58 | | shut up doug |
| 02:40.58 | Jormungandr | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:41.10 | fiberchunks_ | and damn, is it bright! |
| 02:41.13 | Jormungandr | hi fiberchunks :) |
| 02:41.13 | MrDoug | ok doke, thx |
| 02:41.14 | Jormungandr | cool. |
| 02:41.21 | captain_proton | scanline: happily jetcowizing spline? :} |
| 02:41.31 | scanline | mmm |
| 02:41.33 | scanline | need my coffee |
| 02:41.34 | MrDoug | fiberchunks_: I shall be recieving a box of laptops rather soon now.... |
| 02:41.41 | MrDoug | fiberchunks: ;) |
| 02:42.02 | Jormungandr | not such a bad idea, the ignoring bot part. |
| 02:42.06 | MrDoug | fiberchunks_: hope fully they will not share the same fate as the other shipment |
| 02:42.12 | MrDoug | ;) |
| 02:42.19 | Jormungandr | whew. |
| 02:42.40 | captain_proton | shut: i think he's set you on ignore |
| 02:42.53 | Jormungandr | :) |
| 02:43.10 | scanline | bag |
| 02:43.13 | scanline | err, bah |
| 02:43.25 | MrDoug | shut: you did good work for awhile, but you should retire now, maybe to florida, or the grand heaven of electrons where all bots go and die |
| 02:43.31 | Jormungandr | so many resources to tell doug to shut up and he plugs his ears. :) |
| 02:43.36 | MrDoug | :P |
| 02:43.47 | scanline | shut will come back when doug's least expecting it |
| 02:44.23 | MrDoug | lol |
| 02:44.31 | MrDoug | how do I unignore? |
| 02:44.40 | MrDoug | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:44.49 | Jormungandr | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:45.03 | Jormungandr | depends on client, of course. |
| 02:45.06 | *** join/#bzflag shut_up (~shut_up@aden2-142-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 02:45.09 | Jormungandr | but that's how to do it onmy. |
| 02:45.16 | MrDoug | ah |
| 02:45.20 | MrDoug | slick |
| 02:45.42 | MrDoug | like how to ignore everyhting with shut in it |
| 02:45.45 | Jormungandr | there |
| 02:46.04 | Jormungandr | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:46.04 | scanline | MrDoug: or you could just leave this channel |
| 02:46.10 | Jormungandr | :( |
| 02:46.12 | Jormungandr | meanie |
| 02:46.13 | MrDoug | scanline: bah, thats for lazy people |
| 02:46.28 | Jormungandr | :) |
| 02:46.30 | MrDoug | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:46.33 | MrDoug | hm |
| 02:46.41 | MrDoug | ignore |
| 02:46.43 | MrDoug | er |
| 02:46.45 | MrDoug | slick |
| 02:47.13 | MrDoug | hmm, I hope scanline can talk |
| 02:47.20 | captain_proton | scanline: how 'bout them funky jetcowized splines? |
| 02:47.50 | scanline | hmmkay... |
| 02:48.00 | MrDoug | ah |
| 02:48.59 | MrDoug | ! |
| 02:49.19 | MrDoug | PGP requires a serial number now |
| 02:49.43 | captain_proton | PGP has always required a serial number |
| 02:49.57 | MrDoug | not the version I have used |
| 02:50.10 | MrDoug | I could allways sign my emails with it |
| 02:50.34 | scanline | gpg != pgp |
| 02:50.45 | scanline | what a neat idea |
| 02:50.54 | MrDoug | scanline? |
| 02:50.56 | MrDoug | gpg? |
| 02:51.17 | captain_proton | i really need to get multiplay working again |
| 02:51.21 | MrDoug | good privicy pork? |
| 02:51.29 | scanline | ~sud |
| 02:51.29 | | shut up doug |
| 02:51.31 | captain_proton | MrDoug: gpg, not gpp |
| 02:51.40 | MrDoug | hm |
| 02:51.46 | scanline | MrDoug: the bot really was more efficient |
| 02:51.51 | MrDoug | good privecy gophers |
| 02:52.02 | *** join/#bzflag shut (~shut@aden2-142-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 02:52.19 | MrDoug | bah! I dont want version 8 |
| 02:52.25 | MrDoug | it dont do email stuff |
| 02:52.35 | MrDoug | http://www.pgpi.org/ |
| 02:52.40 | MrDoug | thats the site no? |
| 02:52.41 | captain_proton | ~sud |
| 02:52.42 | | shut up doug |
| 02:52.50 | MrDoug | hmm |
| 02:52.56 | scanline | UTFG |
| 02:53.17 | MrDoug | is there anyway to ignore all messages from a particular user with a particular word in it? |
| 02:53.48 | captain_proton | scanline: tomorrow i'm meeting with jon to learn about motion tracking, should probably get a key on tomorrow as well |
| 02:53.56 | scanline | captain_proton: neato |
| 02:54.06 | captain_proton | then friday i'm gonna meet with bill to (hopefully) learn how to add assets to the mediabase server |
| 02:54.12 | MrDoug | daddyo |
| 02:54.44 | scanline | MrDoug: you haven't figured out when the bot triggers yet, eh? |
| 02:54.59 | MrDoug | heh |
| 02:55.02 | scanline | it's not entirely random |
| 02:55.05 | scanline | :P |
| 02:55.14 | MrDoug | yea, its very kewl, and slick |
| 02:55.19 | scanline | that's not all |
| 02:55.34 | scanline | there's a sophisticated system for detecting lameness |
| 02:55.46 | MrDoug | uh huh |
| 02:56.20 | *** join/#bzflag fiberchunks_ (~fiberchun@237.14.252.64.snet.net) |
| 02:57.02 | MrDoug | and if I order in the next 5 min, I will recieve not 2 not 3 super duper doug-bots, but 4 bots!, plus a program that can selectivly blow apart peoples IRC clients |
| 02:58.48 | captain_proton | scanline: you read that MS is creating a new *functional* language? |
| 03:00.52 | scanline | captain_proton: haha |
| 03:01.28 | scanline | picogui's theme language has some aspects of a functional language |
| 03:01.56 | captain_proton | i'm prepared to argue my point of python as functional too >:) |
| 03:12.18 | captain_proton | scanline: POKE |
| 03:12.38 | captain_proton | scanline: #jetstream |
| 03:28.38 | *** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (dbrosius@mxfcl3x22.chesco.com) |
| 03:38.57 | *** join/#bzflag bzdoug_ (SteveJobs@216.135.68.133) |
| 03:39.24 | bzdoug_ | woo, I LOVE system restore |
| 03:39.28 | bzdoug_ | hmm |
| 03:39.35 | bzdoug_ | it forgot my settings |
| 03:40.15 | *** join/#bzflag fiberchunks (~fiberchun@237.14.252.64.snet.net) |
| 03:46.41 | fiberchunks | hey y'all, just got the laptop going, but I'm missing some headers - notably, glu.h - what package is that in? |
| 03:48.35 | jacques_gone | glut |
| 03:48.43 | fiberchunks | thx, found it |
| 04:27.53 | *** join/#bzflag gonkey[iBook} (~brandon@h-69-3-122-87.DNVTCO56.covad.net) |
| 04:45.10 | *** join/#bzflag Pig (Ferret@d51132f7.cable.wanadoo.nl) |
| 04:49.42 | *** join/#bzflag bzdoug_ (SteveJobs@216.135.68.133) |
| 04:57.53 | scanline | it's a cute spline |
| 05:00.53 | *** join/#bzflag fiberchunks (~fiberchun@237.14.252.64.snet.net) |
| 05:22.02 | *** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (dbrosius@mxfcl5x7.chesco.com) |
| 05:26.40 | *** join/#bzflag fiberchunks (~fiberchun@237.14.252.64.snet.net) |
| 05:29.56 | *** join/#bzflag Jormungandr (mandrake@dragon.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:30.09 | *** join/#bzflag lurgyman (~lurgyman@aden2-123-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 06:07.09 | *** join/#bzflag M_A_C (dbrosius@mxfcl1x10.chesco.com) |
| 06:20.46 | MrApathyCream | Piggy == swine? |
| 06:40.48 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~JeffM@adsl-64-167-76-190.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 06:42.08 | fiberchunks | where is eveyone tonite? |
| 06:42.51 | Patlabor221 | HALO |
| 06:43.03 | fiberchunks | allo |
| 06:43.29 | Patlabor221 | no HALO |
| 06:43.34 | Patlabor221 | that's where I was |
| 06:43.39 | fiberchunks | heh, whoops |
| 06:43.47 | Patlabor221 | guns, covenant, and cyborgs. |
| 06:45.18 | Patlabor221 | how goes it? |
| 06:45.31 | fiberchunks | decent -- playing with my spiffy new laptop right now |
| 06:45.52 | Patlabor221 | ahhh very cool |
| 06:46.00 | Patlabor221 | my laptop will run it, just not realy well |
| 06:46.53 | fiberchunks | yah, that was my MKI laptop, this is the MKII -- vastly improved ;) |
| 06:47.36 | fiberchunks | ATI rage mobil pro (4 mb vram) vs. NVIDIA GeForce4 440 Go (32 m vram) -- not even a comparison really |
| 06:49.28 | fiberchunks | you get that link I posted yesterday bout apache 2 and php? |
| 06:49.51 | Patlabor221 | ohh no |
| 06:50.18 | fiberchunks | lemme post it again: seems to be not the forum software, but apache2 and php issues |
| 06:50.35 | Patlabor221 | does noone see how screwed up gameplay would be if they hadded things that could fly? :) |
| 06:50.44 | fiberchunks | http://www.php.net/manual/en/install.apache2.php |
| 06:50.52 | fiberchunks | note the second line of that post |
| 06:51.43 | fiberchunks | yah, but you're supporting help-drops of GM packets? |
| 06:52.04 | fiberchunks | or are they virtual helos ;) |
| 06:52.19 | Patlabor221 | they freakin want flying tanks |
| 06:52.24 | fiberchunks | lol |
| 06:52.31 | Patlabor221 | that would screw all normal tanks |
| 06:52.43 | Patlabor221 | so looks like I need the most latest of the stuff |
| 06:52.48 | Patlabor221 | I wonder what I have |
| 06:52.56 | fiberchunks | 'all I want is a friggin' tank with friggin' wings on it; come on people throw me a bone here' |
| 06:52.58 | Patlabor221 | I updated everything but that kernel form redhat |
| 06:53.37 | Patlabor221 | people seem to think what would be "cool" and not think of how it would actualy work together |
| 06:53.41 | fiberchunks | yah -- you have apache 2.something, but I can't remember what -- I don't think you have php on your system |
| 06:53.49 | Patlabor221 | it may be updated now |
| 06:53.56 | fiberchunks | but one minute, and I'll check |
| 06:53.56 | Patlabor221 | I ran the latest rehat update |
| 06:54.21 | Patlabor221 | ohh we got VNC working on it if you want to use that too |
| 06:54.33 | Patlabor221 | like supper special VNC |
| 06:55.12 | Patlabor221 | but this has my pimp daddy login screen |
| 06:56.15 | fiberchunks | well, then for the sake of the pimp daddy login screen, I will VNC after I determine your versions ;) |
| 06:56.42 | Patlabor221 | well it's not nornal VNC tho, you have to use ports 50 to 54 |
| 06:56.44 | Patlabor221 | not 0 |
| 06:57.13 | Patlabor221 | Jzaun set it up all cool like |
| 06:57.37 | Patlabor221 | where each port is a difent res |
| 06:57.48 | fiberchunks | neat |
| 06:57.53 | Patlabor221 | and it takes you allways to GDM so you can login and get your own deskop |
| 06:58.57 | fiberchunks | hrmph, methinks you have not php and mysql installed |
| 06:59.07 | Patlabor221 | proalbly not |
| 06:59.08 | fiberchunks | but apache is version 2.0.40-11 |
| 06:59.16 | Patlabor221 | is that good? |
| 06:59.31 | fiberchunks | dunno, like I said, I use 1.3.xx series of apache |
| 06:59.43 | fiberchunks | but subversion requires apache 2.x.xx |
| 06:59.59 | fiberchunks | (hence why you should use cvs, imho) |
| 07:00.03 | Patlabor221 | what did they change in 2 that made it break all the stuff |
| 07:00.13 | Patlabor221 | I could use CVS |
| 07:00.17 | fiberchunks | dunno if it's apache or php -- not sure |
| 07:01.07 | fiberchunks | well, subversion is nice, but a dependency on apache 2 is a problem imo (don't know why they couldn't use both, but I'm no code monkey, as we all know) |
| 07:01.37 | Jormungandr | apache2 has a lot of issues with 3rd party modules. |
| 07:01.41 | Jormungandr | it's getting better though. |
| 07:01.44 | Patlabor221 | SVN is still not realy "RELEAE" tho |
| 07:01.51 | Patlabor221 | sorry release |
| 07:01.58 | Patlabor221 | hmmmm |
| 07:01.59 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 07:02.09 | Jormungandr | not cuz apache 2 is getting better, but because people are rewriting their modules :) |
| 07:02.16 | fiberchunks | lol |
| 07:02.29 | Patlabor221 | SVN was nice in that it allowed full browsing of source over the web without an extra module |
| 07:02.54 | Jormungandr | very cool. |
| 07:02.57 | Patlabor221 | what was the big change from 1.x to 2.x? |
| 07:03.14 | fiberchunks | good question |
| 07:03.15 | Jormungandr | mostly scalability from what I understand. |
| 07:03.44 | Jormungandr | different memory usage structures, which is what broken the modules. |
| 07:04.05 | Jormungandr | I just know stuff breaks when you try to upgrade to 2.x on an existing server. |
| 07:04.29 | Patlabor221 | we are looking at installing a php message board on a 2.x server |
| 07:04.35 | fiberchunks | alright, how do I use vnc on a particular port |
| 07:04.51 | Patlabor221 | asgard.bakadigital.com:52 |
| 07:05.02 | Patlabor221 | that will give you 800x600x16bit |
| 07:05.34 | fiberchunks | very nice |
| 07:05.52 | Patlabor221 | 50 = 640 |
| 07:05.57 | Patlabor221 | 51 = 800 at 8 bit |
| 07:06.02 | Patlabor221 | 52 = 800 16 bit |
| 07:06.07 | Patlabor221 | 53 = 1024 |
| 07:06.12 | Patlabor221 | 54 = LARGE |
| 07:08.14 | fiberchunks | hehe, surfing my site from your machine takes months ;) |
| 07:09.45 | Patlabor221 | odd, shold be not bad, unless the bz server went off the deep end again |
| 07:10.07 | fiberchunks | nah, just rendering pages over the net with vnc takes a long time |
| 07:10.24 | fiberchunks | ~1.5 seconds to pop up the redhat menu |
| 07:11.14 | Patlabor221 | that it does |
| 07:11.29 | Patlabor221 | it's not THAT slow for me |
| 07:11.35 | Patlabor221 | like the login ? |
| 07:11.48 | fiberchunks | that's cause you're not on the east coast ;) and yes, I do like the login, very nice |
| 07:12.02 | Patlabor221 | see you should move |
| 07:12.07 | fiberchunks | lol |
| 07:12.54 | scanline | it's like remote X, over a rope and two cans! |
| 07:15.06 | Patlabor221 | I wonder if you could use an acustic coupler and 4 cans and 2 strings and actualy get a connection |
| 07:15.16 | scanline | I'm sure you could |
| 07:15.22 | Patlabor221 | 2 buad |
| 07:15.32 | scanline | maybe |
| 07:15.51 | Patlabor221 | maybe 4 with REALY good string |
| 07:15.55 | scanline | hell, you could get 2 baud making waves in the rope with your hand |
| 07:16.00 | fiberchunks | hemp |
| 07:16.48 | MrApathyCream | how goezit Patlabor221 |
| 07:16.58 | fiberchunks | scanline: I didn't know you contrib to blinkenlights -- cool |
| 07:17.15 | fiberchunks | you got case mod pics? |
| 07:17.21 | scanline | hmm? |
| 07:17.30 | Patlabor221 | it goes mac |
| 07:17.40 | fiberchunks | thought I saw on picogui that you did some blinkenlights projects |
| 07:17.45 | scanline | this isn't the same blinkenlights that was on the building, just inspired by it |
| 07:17.50 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 07:17.58 | Patlabor221 | http://www.bakadigital.com/zero/test/flare.png |
| 07:17.59 | scanline | but yeah, I did a case mod with 72 computer controlled LEDs |
| 07:18.17 | scanline | http://blinkenlights.sf.net |
| 07:18.36 | MrApathyCream | nifty |
| 07:19.21 | scanline | http://blinkenlights.sourceforge.net/images/yoshi/im000471.jpg <-- that was FUN to solder |
| 07:19.46 | Patlabor221 | tho hell@work = not much time to make with the coding or new textureing |
| 07:20.06 | MrApathyCream | mm |
| 07:20.15 | fiberchunks | pacman |
| 07:20.27 | MrApathyCream | as janey, your ex-girlfriend used to say, "you're such a tease" |
| 07:20.49 | Patlabor221 | no jenny never said that |
| 07:21.46 | Patlabor221 | ohhh janey |
| 07:21.47 | fiberchunks | general q: how many polygons does it take to make such a thing? |
| 07:21.53 | Patlabor221 | no never dated a janey |
| 07:21.58 | Patlabor221 | that thin |
| 07:22.05 | Patlabor221 | ohh it's gotta be less then 100 |
| 07:22.28 | fiberchunks | is that the new gm model? |
| 07:22.31 | Patlabor221 | lemme fire up ye olld windws |
| 07:22.35 | Patlabor221 | and count |
| 07:22.37 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 07:22.41 | fiberchunks | cool |
| 07:22.48 | Patlabor221 | tho that is with flare |
| 07:22.59 | Patlabor221 | and the flare is not alphaed |
| 07:23.43 | MrApathyCream | low res tank about 50? i think |
| 07:23.54 | MrApathyCream | maybe 100 is ok |
| 07:24.30 | MrApathyCream | flare will look sweet if you get the right texture |
| 07:24.32 | fiberchunks | do you have to make 3 models for 3 resolutions (n00b stuff again) |
| 07:24.44 | MrApathyCream | fiberchunks: the tank has 3 models |
| 07:25.05 | Patlabor221 | the tank as 3 for what is called LOD |
| 07:25.13 | Patlabor221 | it's the only one that has LOD models |
| 07:25.16 | fiberchunks | whaz that |
| 07:25.34 | Patlabor221 | LOD stands for "LEVEL OF DETAIL" |
| 07:25.37 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 07:25.52 | scanline | yay for LOD |
| 07:26.04 | Patlabor221 | the basic idea is that relay far away a model of a ball with 1000 polys loosk the same as a ball with 100 polys |
| 07:26.10 | MrApathyCream | well all the other geoms are real low vertex count |
| 07:26.29 | Patlabor221 | so you use a lower vert/poly count for difrent distances |
| 07:26.33 | fiberchunks | makes sense |
| 07:26.36 | MrApathyCream | Patlabor221: actually i don't think bzflag changes geom at different distances |
| 07:26.45 | MrApathyCream | which is prolly a mistake |
| 07:26.55 | Patlabor221 | ohh it's based on the "quality" seting isn't it? |
| 07:26.59 | MrApathyCream | just based on options quality setting |
| 07:27.06 | Patlabor221 | I know it uses the low model for the shadown |
| 07:27.11 | MrApathyCream | yes |
| 07:27.26 | Patlabor221 | well the idea is to use lower quality models to increase performance |
| 07:27.31 | MrApathyCream | yes |
| 07:27.33 | Patlabor221 | BZ doesn't do a normal LOD then |
| 07:27.42 | Patlabor221 | but most others do it on disntance |
| 07:27.52 | Patlabor221 | modern stuff does dynamic LOD |
| 07:28.16 | Patlabor221 | where you compute some automatic reduced poly reprensentantion of the mesh |
| 07:28.24 | scanline | then there's that crazy fad, CLOD |
| 07:28.39 | Patlabor221 | ether by doing a progresive mesh, or using a surface def |
| 07:28.43 | Patlabor221 | CLOD? |
| 07:28.47 | scanline | continuous LOD |
| 07:28.48 | MrApathyCream | hmm, i stand corrected |
| 07:28.49 | MrApathyCream | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:28.49 | MrApathyCream | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:28.49 | MrApathyCream | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:28.52 | scanline | it's what jetstream does |
| 07:29.01 | Patlabor221 | the contiuious? |
| 07:29.07 | scanline | yeah |
| 07:29.08 | Patlabor221 | your using surf defs |
| 07:29.14 | Patlabor221 | yeah so that's easy for you |
| 07:29.26 | scanline | CLOD is commonly used for terrain |
| 07:29.27 | Patlabor221 | CLODS are more common on terians |
| 07:29.32 | Patlabor221 | :) |
| 07:29.35 | scanline | jetstream generalizes it to arbitrary surfaces |
| 07:29.35 | fiberchunks | cvs busted? |
| 07:29.59 | MrApathyCream | no |
| 07:30.05 | fiberchunks | hrm |
| 07:30.39 | Patlabor221 | wow |
| 07:30.58 | Patlabor221 | for that missile with out the flare it's 110 triangles, 58 verts |
| 07:31.45 | MrApathyCream | how much for the fins |
| 07:31.55 | fiberchunks | are rectangles defined as simply 4 vertices, or 2 triangles (or neither) |
| 07:31.55 | MrApathyCream | you could strip them for lowres |
| 07:32.05 | Patlabor221 | ohh I think it will be fine |
| 07:32.15 | MrApathyCream | usually don't use rectangles,,.. not planar |
| 07:32.24 | MrApathyCream | (necessarily) |
| 07:32.42 | Patlabor221 | fiber depends on how you call them in GL |
| 07:32.53 | Patlabor221 | if you call GL_QUADS |
| 07:32.56 | Patlabor221 | 4 verts |
| 07:33.01 | scanline | OpenGL has several primitives you can use- triangles, quadrilaterals, convex polygons, points, lines... |
| 07:33.01 | Patlabor221 | if you call GL_TRIANGLES |
| 07:33.03 | Patlabor221 | 2 tirs |
| 07:33.06 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 07:33.12 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 07:33.23 | Patlabor221 | fins are 12 each |
| 07:33.31 | scanline | most of the time you'll use triangles, since they're always planar, and it's what the hardware will need eventually anyway |
| 07:33.39 | Patlabor221 | you realy thinnk that this many tris will geek low res |
| 07:33.44 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 07:33.53 | MrApathyCream | Patlabor221: I KNOW chestal will biotch |
| 07:33.54 | Patlabor221 | and you can allways break any model down into them |
| 07:34.00 | fiberchunks | is there a performance difference, for example, between a quadrilateral, and a triangle? |
| 07:34.10 | Patlabor221 | how many flares are on a current GM? |
| 07:34.13 | MrApathyCream | quads get broken into tris |
| 07:34.26 | Patlabor221 | most hardware breaks it into tri fans or strips anyway |
| 07:34.27 | MrApathyCream | Patlabor221: hmmm? |
| 07:34.31 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 07:34.50 | Patlabor221 | fiber so may as well put it in tris anyway |
| 07:34.57 | MrApathyCream | besides if you break them down, the missile can blow apart |
| 07:35.12 | Patlabor221 | I think that would look wierd |
| 07:35.22 | fiberchunks | geometry more complex to figure out if you put all constructs as triangles? |
| 07:35.32 | fiberchunks | no, I guess not, nm |
| 07:35.39 | Patlabor221 | usualy you don't figure out the geo, you use a modeler |
| 07:35.40 | Patlabor221 | and a file |
| 07:35.50 | Patlabor221 | hardcoding geo is rather lame |
| 07:35.55 | MrApathyCream | modelers tesselate (break down complex surface) into tris |
| 07:36.03 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 07:36.07 | Patlabor221 | surfs are realy nice because you can evaluate them how ever you want. |
| 07:36.22 | Patlabor221 | and you can break them down into a LOT of tris or a little |
| 07:36.44 | fiberchunks | how is a surface defined (is that a fan, strip, etc)? |
| 07:36.51 | MrApathyCream | surfaces defined with real curves BSplines |
| 07:36.56 | Patlabor221 | spline curves |
| 07:37.01 | MrApathyCream | so models are perfect, tesselations are approximate |
| 07:37.01 | scanline | usually NURBS.. doesn't have to be though |
| 07:37.03 | Patlabor221 | there are a number of difrent surface defs |
| 07:37.13 | fiberchunks | k |
| 07:37.19 | Patlabor221 | can also do subdivision, brep, ect.. |
| 07:37.21 | scanline | abstractly, a surface would be whatever you're putting into the modeler before it tesselates |
| 07:37.30 | scanline | things like extrusions, splines, quadrics.. |
| 07:37.33 | Patlabor221 | they do take more CPU power tho, since cards can't take surfs yet. |
| 07:37.44 | MrApathyCream | when that happens.... |
| 07:37.57 | Patlabor221 | then everything will be silly and rounded :) |
| 07:38.13 | fiberchunks | too realistic for you ;) |
| 07:38.26 | fiberchunks | LOL |
| 07:38.32 | Patlabor221 | not every thing is rounded |
| 07:38.40 | scanline | most things are |
| 07:38.44 | fiberchunks | true |
| 07:38.45 | scanline | you rarely find a perfectly sharp corner |
| 07:38.47 | Patlabor221 | but it seems when a new tech comes out, everyone uses it to deth |
| 07:39.02 | Patlabor221 | in abaolute realisty yes |
| 07:39.10 | Patlabor221 | but there are many corners that are REALY close |
| 07:39.15 | scanline | well, how about outdoors? |
| 07:39.24 | Patlabor221 | broken rocks |
| 07:39.25 | MrApathyCream | BZFlag will have beautiful Nurb hills that you can drive up and down smoothly, ... and makes it impossible to shoot anyone |
| 07:39.27 | scanline | aside from the occasional sharp rock, nothing has a corner |
| 07:39.42 | scanline | MrApathyCream: NURBS are bad for terrain |
| 07:39.45 | Patlabor221 | there are a LOT of rocks in the world |
| 07:40.14 | Patlabor221 | winged edges man, surfs are soo 90's, it's all about solids now.... :) |
| 07:40.28 | Patlabor221 | everything in the real world is manifold |
| 07:40.33 | scanline | Patlabor221: a lot of rocks would be an even better reason to use surfaces |
| 07:40.44 | Patlabor221 | I kknow, I'm just messin with you. |
| 07:40.52 | Patlabor221 | we do surfs all day |
| 07:41.29 | Patlabor221 | our software is a full parasolid modeler. |
| 07:41.50 | fiberchunks | ~dict parasolid |
| 07:41.57 | fiberchunks | hmph |
| 07:42.01 | Patlabor221 | it's a solid modeling kernel |
| 07:42.14 | Patlabor221 | like the acis kernel |
| 07:42.29 | Patlabor221 | takes surfs and keeps them all in manifold solid stuctures, |
| 07:42.39 | Patlabor221 | give you APIs to create and modify them |
| 07:42.44 | scanline | this SVN manual is nice, I should use the same DocBook DTD |
| 07:42.45 | MrApathyCream | scanline: on BZFlag's new font system? |
| 07:42.49 | Patlabor221 | and do booleans and stuff on them |
| 07:42.52 | scanline | MrApathyCream: mm.. yes... |
| 07:42.59 | Patlabor221 | even teselate them |
| 07:43.04 | Patlabor221 | I sometimes make models in it. |
| 07:43.12 | Patlabor221 | makes me look like I'm working :) |
| 07:43.16 | fiberchunks | heh |
| 07:44.45 | MrApathyCream | hhmmm, here's a thought... |
| 07:45.13 | MrApathyCream | prolly would be simple to add a 'bump-map' like functionality to bzflag, so when you drive you get a rough ride |
| 07:45.41 | Patlabor221 | again making it imposible to hit anyone? |
| 07:45.48 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 07:45.51 | MrApathyCream | not THAT bumpy |
| 07:46.01 | Patlabor221 | the lack of aiming makes any type of terain change affect gameplay |
| 07:46.02 | MrApathyCream | and only bumpy in the z-parallel axis |
| 07:46.14 | Patlabor221 | would be interesting |
| 07:46.19 | Patlabor221 | but what would it add? |
| 07:46.23 | scanline | you mean the y axis? |
| 07:46.30 | MrApathyCream | well bz z is up |
| 07:46.35 | scanline | oh |
| 07:47.00 | Patlabor221 | they went with the easer to use X90 rot CS :) |
| 07:47.05 | Patlabor221 | not the GL default one |
| 07:47.28 | MrApathyCream | so highways could have a constant bump and you go fast, grass would be a lil slower, sand could be really slow |
| 07:47.40 | Patlabor221 | 182 faces with the flare |
| 07:47.50 | MrApathyCream | lo res could lose the flair |
| 07:47.53 | Patlabor221 | well grass is less bumpy then highways |
| 07:47.58 | Patlabor221 | more squisy |
| 07:48.16 | Patlabor221 | yes the flare parts will be seperate named meshes in the file so they can be turned off. |
| 07:48.19 | MrApathyCream | i guess would be better to model with materials anyway |
| 07:48.46 | Patlabor221 | most games let you set world data stuff on a per regon seting |
| 07:48.53 | Patlabor221 | like friction, speeds, and grav |
| 07:49.06 | MrApathyCream | yup |
| 07:49.06 | Patlabor221 | speed of sound and dopeler and all that |
| 07:49.14 | Patlabor221 | so you could have underwater sound difrent |
| 07:49.27 | MrApathyCream | heh, everyone knows jumping tanks can't swim |
| 07:49.29 | fiberchunks | which module has main() defined? (playing?) |
| 07:49.31 | MrApathyCream | (in real life) |
| 07:49.36 | Patlabor221 | throw some projected caustics. |
| 07:49.37 | MrApathyCream | fiberchunks: bzflag.cxx |
| 07:49.40 | fiberchunks | thx |
| 07:50.04 | Patlabor221 | myMain, on the primary dev platform :) |
| 07:50.17 | MrApathyCream | next ver we need world munitions |
| 07:50.29 | fiberchunks | phbbt ;) |
| 07:50.32 | Patlabor221 | need a more robust server state for that |
| 07:50.50 | Patlabor221 | server must know where everyone is if it is to aim. |
| 07:52.10 | MrApathyCream | well, wasn't even gonna aim |
| 07:52.14 | Patlabor221 | I could make an option low res model that the software pukes could load in. |
| 07:52.26 | Patlabor221 | if your gonna do it do it right |
| 07:52.36 | Patlabor221 | otherwise just set up some bots with special tank types |
| 07:52.40 | MrApathyCream | yeah just a stick that gets shot |
| 07:52.53 | MrApathyCream | bots should be stripped completely |
| 07:53.01 | MrApathyCream | a redo from the ground up |
| 07:53.11 | Patlabor221 | I didn't mean current bots |
| 07:53.37 | Patlabor221 | nothing says that you could not have server code that "logsin" a couple players. |
| 07:53.52 | Patlabor221 | fake players |
| 07:53.58 | Patlabor221 | and has them make shots |
| 07:54.20 | Patlabor221 | just add a new player type that the client specal cases. |
| 07:54.26 | Patlabor221 | and the server will never say they die |
| 07:54.34 | MrApathyCream | yea |
| 07:54.36 | Patlabor221 | so the clients will never see them dies |
| 07:54.47 | Patlabor221 | like a server side cheat |
| 07:54.57 | MrApathyCream | yes |
| 07:54.57 | Patlabor221 | thats ignored by the anit-cheat code |
| 07:55.22 | Patlabor221 | if you just want shots to spawn in world |
| 07:55.23 | MrApathyCream | sw-waterfountains |
| 07:55.28 | Patlabor221 | just put the tanks under the world |
| 07:55.34 | MrApathyCream | or fireworks |
| 07:55.42 | MrApathyCream | laser light shows |
| 07:55.50 | Patlabor221 | or set a new tank type |
| 07:56.01 | fiberchunks | pink floyd does bzflag |
| 07:56.02 | Patlabor221 | would you want the munitions to be deadly? |
| 07:56.08 | MrApathyCream | heh, fire off a few missiles vertically |
| 07:56.20 | MrApathyCream | *shrug* |
| 07:56.27 | MrApathyCream | either way |
| 07:57.20 | Patlabor221 | if you just added players and didn't change the client they would be |
| 07:57.24 | MrApathyCream | ~emulate bzdoug |
| 07:57.24 | | Sits in #bzflag all day, spouting nonsense, and *shrug*-ing |
| 07:57.25 | Patlabor221 | if you added a new client mode |
| 07:57.41 | Patlabor221 | then you would have the client ignore all it's checks and just trust them |
| 07:57.46 | Patlabor221 | but not colide with them |
| 07:58.13 | Patlabor221 | that would prevent the cheaters from using that mode to get get around the normal checks |
| 07:58.32 | MrApathyCream | yup |
| 07:58.56 | MrApathyCream | ~emulate MrApathyCream |
| 07:58.56 | | ACTION makes french fries and recompiles his kernel |
| 07:59.41 | Patlabor221 | hmm lowest I could proably get a missle without a flare is 36 tris |
| 07:59.52 | MrApathyCream | thats fine |
| 08:00.06 | Patlabor221 | it will be ugly tho |
| 08:00.22 | MrApathyCream | so are the red boxes and blue triangles |
| 08:00.36 | MrApathyCream | but people still play in lo |
| 08:00.42 | Patlabor221 | and aditioanl 3 or 6 tris would make it look better |
| 08:00.49 | MrApathyCream | for hi? |
| 08:00.54 | Patlabor221 | no for low |
| 08:00.57 | MrApathyCream | ah |
| 08:01.01 | MrApathyCream | that's prolly ok |
| 08:01.21 | Patlabor221 | 4 more and I could make a uber crap flare |
| 08:01.33 | Patlabor221 | well the nice thing is that the model is external |
| 08:01.35 | MrApathyCream | they prolly don't have texturing anyway |
| 08:01.42 | Patlabor221 | and we can load them how ever we want |
| 08:01.45 | MrApathyCream | so the flare wouldn't mean anything |
| 08:01.53 | Patlabor221 | inside the new "initGeo" function |
| 08:02.23 | MrApathyCream | normal bullets are billboarded, right? |
| 08:02.28 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 08:02.31 | MrApathyCream | just sw, and laser? |
| 08:02.40 | MrApathyCream | (and gm) are geoms |
| 08:02.40 | Patlabor221 | I think so |
| 08:02.52 | Patlabor221 | GM was a hybrid |
| 08:02.59 | Patlabor221 | bilboarded geo |
| 08:03.11 | MrApathyCream | mm |
| 08:03.23 | Patlabor221 | it would be easy to replace normal shot now too |
| 08:03.29 | MrApathyCream | kul |
| 08:03.36 | MrApathyCream | 1.8 was gonna have flyswatter, 'member? |
| 08:03.43 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 08:03.43 | MrApathyCream | *sniff* |
| 08:03.52 | jacques_gone | more ppl need to go vote on happypenguin - some game called "cube" is winning Best Free 3D Action Game |
| 08:03.54 | MrApathyCream | :) |
| 08:04.07 | Patlabor221 | well cube is prety cool :) |
| 08:04.38 | Patlabor221 | and very impresive for one guys work |
| 08:04.54 | jacques_gone | bzflag is handily winning the Best Free Multiplayer Action Game category thought |
| 08:04.57 | jacques_gone | though |
| 08:05.41 | MrApathyCream | wow nice gerfixs, hoda must have done them |
| 08:05.50 | Patlabor221 | ?\ |
| 08:06.02 | MrApathyCream | (ask scanline) |
| 08:06.27 | scanline | ha |
| 08:06.36 | Patlabor221 | that boy didn't come back did he? |
| 08:06.54 | MrApathyCream | cube != free? |
| 08:06.57 | scanline | he tried to get us interested in some open source clipart barrels |
| 08:07.19 | Patlabor221 | cube != open source in the normal sense |
| 08:07.23 | Patlabor221 | but it is free |
| 08:07.34 | Patlabor221 | and you can get full source for it |
| 08:07.48 | scanline | ugh, I hate the happypenguin web site |
| 08:07.57 | Patlabor221 | its just that he changes the server protocol sligtly before releaseing source |
| 08:07.57 | scanline | such a kooky layout |
| 08:08.14 | Patlabor221 | so that people who use it don't affect his "legit" servers |
| 08:08.25 | Patlabor221 | and he dosn't have open CVS type checkins |
| 08:08.27 | MrApathyCream | huh, clever |
| 08:08.30 | Patlabor221 | he's keeping it his project |
| 08:08.40 | Patlabor221 | he will look at stuff people do to his code |
| 08:08.49 | Patlabor221 | and posbily put i in his code |
| 08:09.01 | Patlabor221 | but it's not like this where there are number of people conributing. |
| 08:09.19 | MrApathyCream | there's a number of people contributing here? |
| 08:09.21 | MrApathyCream | ;) |
| 08:09.28 | Patlabor221 | suposedly |
| 08:09.34 | MrApathyCream | ah yes, scanline's doing fonts, forgot |
| 08:09.45 | MrApathyCream | labors missiles |
| 08:09.58 | Patlabor221 | I can see why he wants to do that tho, it gives him better controll over the vision of his project. |
| 08:09.59 | MrApathyCream | ok, i see |
| 08:10.14 | Patlabor221 | but still lets everyone benifit from the code |
| 08:10.17 | MrApathyCream | theoretically riker has that control |
| 08:10.20 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 08:10.35 | MrApathyCream | maybe just takes more deligence on his part, tho |
| 08:10.39 | Patlabor221 | so he is very simiar to open source just a little difrent |
| 08:10.53 | Patlabor221 | his license lets you use it for what ever you want. |
| 08:10.57 | Patlabor221 | BSD like I think. |
| 08:11.18 | MrApathyCream | ibot, seen TimRiker? |
| 08:11.18 | | timriker <timr@rikers.org> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 6h 37m 41s ago, saying: '~bzflist'. |
| 08:11.19 | Patlabor221 | he does have a flipin complete FPS game with scriping, and an in game editor |
| 08:11.59 | Patlabor221 | MAC did you ever see the models that Hoda wanted to submit? |
| 08:12.10 | MrApathyCream | Yes, pretty |
| 08:12.22 | Patlabor221 | they still scare me |
| 08:12.22 | MrApathyCream | ;) actually, he wanted to do something more silly |
| 08:12.30 | Patlabor221 | like what? |
| 08:12.39 | fiberchunks | are there pictures of these? |
| 08:12.54 | Patlabor221 | I may still have them somewhere |
| 08:13.01 | MrApathyCream | He wanted to come up with an openmedia gpl for people to add clipart to, for game programmers to share |
| 08:13.11 | MrApathyCream | I think he would be the maintainer |
| 08:13.41 | Patlabor221 | turbo squid has something like that with it's free media |
| 08:14.10 | MrApathyCream | fiberchunks: looking |
| 08:14.31 | MrApathyCream | you would crush his little soul, if you told him that |
| 08:15.07 | Patlabor221 | same system that allows comercal assests too |
| 08:15.20 | Patlabor221 | just if you want you can submit them to be set as free |
| 08:16.30 | scanline | oh |
| 08:16.34 | MrApathyCream | fiberchunks: want me to dcc them to you? |
| 08:16.37 | scanline | I've seen the engine that cube uses before |
| 08:16.42 | fiberchunks | if you'd like |
| 08:16.43 | scanline | even played with it a bit |
| 08:16.48 | scanline | weird concept it's based on... |
| 08:17.06 | Patlabor221 | it's an outdoor engine pretending to be indoor |
| 08:17.09 | Patlabor221 | octrees |
| 08:17.13 | fiberchunks | hrm, failed |
| 08:17.18 | scanline | well, the whole world is a heightmap |
| 08:17.24 | MrApathyCream | one sec |
| 08:17.28 | Patlabor221 | odd |
| 08:17.30 | scanline | with different angled caps you can put at each grid square |
| 08:17.53 | Patlabor221 | how does he go under stuff? |
| 08:17.58 | scanline | each 2D grid square can have a floor and ceiling height, or be solid |
| 08:18.06 | scanline | I don't think you can go under stuff |
| 08:18.17 | Patlabor221 | ok so it's like my gridcaster |
| 08:18.21 | scanline | at least you couldn't last I looked |
| 08:18.24 | Patlabor221 | I added Zs to that thing |
| 08:18.41 | Patlabor221 | I had a 2.5 d portal engine that did something like that |
| 08:18.44 | scanline | it's like the raycasters that used grids, before doom |
| 08:18.51 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 08:18.54 | scanline | but with some opengl windowdressing |
| 08:19.02 | Patlabor221 | 2.5d wolfenstein |
| 08:19.09 | Patlabor221 | very simiar to the gridcaster |
| 08:19.12 | *** join/#bzflag Pinguin (~Pinguin@pc212.hf.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) |
| 08:19.23 | scanline | the trees and healthpacks and such are just triangle models stuck on top of the grid |
| 08:19.36 | MrApathyCream | fiberchunks: http://www.chesco.com/~dbrosius/BZFlag/barrel.png |
| 08:19.39 | Patlabor221 | in my portal thing you were allways inside a convex polygon |
| 08:19.55 | Patlabor221 | with a floor and ceiling height |
| 08:20.10 | MrApathyCream | graphics are slightly prettier than wolfy |
| 08:20.30 | scanline | The water isn't realistic at all, but looks cool :) |
| 08:20.47 | scanline | trees are pretty much the ugliest thing next to hoda's models though |
| 08:20.51 | Patlabor221 | well my polys could be N sided |
| 08:20.54 | fiberchunks | what game were those for? bzflag? |
| 08:21.12 | MrApathyCream | fiberchunks: i think just general purpose graphics for ANY game |
| 08:21.16 | scanline | Patlabor221: sounds just like doom's sectors |
| 08:21.18 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 08:21.36 | MrApathyCream | fiberchunks: his point was that game developers can't draw and thus would want them |
| 08:22.00 | Patlabor221 | yes, similar, tho I think they kept them in a BSP |
| 08:22.06 | scanline | right |
| 08:22.11 | scanline | and yours weren't? |
| 08:22.13 | fiberchunks | and do they? |
| 08:22.14 | Patlabor221 | no |
| 08:22.18 | MrApathyCream | no |
| 08:22.20 | Patlabor221 | tree |
| 08:22.23 | fiberchunks | heh |
| 08:22.26 | scanline | ah |
| 08:22.36 | Patlabor221 | www.artemisgames.com/hovercraft.jpg |
| 08:22.46 | Patlabor221 | that was what he did for bz |
| 08:22.55 | fiberchunks | fancy. |
| 08:23.11 | scanline | it's a jet-propelled coffin! |
| 08:23.16 | fiberchunks | lol |
| 08:23.16 | MrApathyCream | bah, where's the big fan |
| 08:23.23 | Patlabor221 | and that was AFTER I told him all the crap he was doing wrong |
| 08:23.43 | fiberchunks | the drag on the front of that thing would be horrific |
| 08:23.51 | Patlabor221 | ohh yes I also have his "conecpt drawing" |
| 08:24.01 | fiberchunks | (if that is the front, that is ;) |
| 08:24.06 | Patlabor221 | www.artemisgames.com/image154.jpg |
| 08:24.30 | fiberchunks | hrm?! |
| 08:24.34 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 08:24.52 | fiberchunks | a mouse with misplaced parts |
| 08:24.56 | Patlabor221 | then I showed him www.artemisgames.com/hover1.jpg |
| 08:24.59 | Patlabor221 | and he got upset |
| 08:25.35 | fiberchunks | oooo, I can see why -- that's purty - how many pgons in that thing? |
| 08:25.45 | Patlabor221 | ohh I dono |
| 08:25.53 | Patlabor221 | under 1k |
| 08:25.58 | Patlabor221 | maybe 700 something |
| 08:26.01 | Patlabor221 | I don't recall |
| 08:26.03 | fiberchunks | wow |
| 08:26.14 | Patlabor221 | hope I remember where the model is :) |
| 08:26.18 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 08:26.38 | fiberchunks | there anyway to reduce that to something that bz can use? |
| 08:26.47 | Patlabor221 | there is also www.artemisgames.com/minitank.jpg |
| 08:27.16 | fiberchunks | that, Gerbil would love |
| 08:27.20 | scanline | holy cow |
| 08:27.27 | Patlabor221 | ohh here we go |
| 08:27.31 | fiberchunks | stick a little rat out of the top of it |
| 08:27.40 | Patlabor221 | found the origonal thing that he wanted to submit |
| 08:27.58 | Patlabor221 | www.artemisgames.com/psudotank1a.jpg |
| 08:28.06 | Patlabor221 | gerbil just took that from a game |
| 08:28.17 | Patlabor221 | metal slug |
| 08:28.32 | MrApathyCream | nifty |
| 08:28.39 | Patlabor221 | and the game tank is based on bonapart from Dominion tank poliece |
| 08:29.05 | fiberchunks | like the small low cannon - pretty nifty lookin |
| 08:29.33 | Patlabor221 | I don't even think hoda made that model |
| 08:30.39 | fiberchunks | I wish you hadn't shown me those -- I want a tank upgrade now :\ |
| 08:30.48 | Patlabor221 | he also REALY wanted me to help him with his supig aame when I showed him this |
| 08:31.00 | Patlabor221 | www.artemisgames.com/tankshots.png |
| 08:31.22 | Patlabor221 | one of my next things is to let the tank be loaded from an obj file as well |
| 08:31.22 | fiberchunks | how very TRON-ish |
| 08:31.25 | Patlabor221 | then you can replace it |
| 08:31.34 | Patlabor221 | it wasn't suposed to be tron ish |
| 08:31.45 | Patlabor221 | but i guess the offset gun does that to it |
| 08:31.52 | fiberchunks | precisely |
| 08:32.07 | Patlabor221 | ton tank had a WAY larger barel tho |
| 08:32.19 | fiberchunks | true (man that was a killer movie) |
| 08:33.32 | fiberchunks | wonder how difficult it was to produce those graphics back in what - 1984 or so? |
| 08:33.40 | Patlabor221 | it was very |
| 08:33.53 | Patlabor221 | I can do what they did there real time on a slow PC now |
| 08:34.03 | Patlabor221 | ohh my, I remember this one |
| 08:34.12 | Patlabor221 | I was modelin and got sidetracked |
| 08:34.24 | Patlabor221 | www.bakadigital.com/screamers/gnome.png |
| 08:34.55 | fiberchunks | what're them 3 things in the back, elevators? |
| 08:35.09 | scanline | fins, for swimming |
| 08:35.11 | Patlabor221 | I dono |
| 08:35.14 | fiberchunks | heh |
| 08:35.16 | Patlabor221 | I was just mussin round |
| 08:35.32 | Patlabor221 | I think I had seen something like it in a book somewhere |
| 08:35.50 | Patlabor221 | I was thinking thrust vector flaps thing |
| 08:35.56 | fiberchunks | kinda has a MK III look to it (is that what screamers has, the mark III?) |
| 08:36.03 | *** join/#bzflag scanline (~micah@aden2-142-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 08:36.04 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 08:36.11 | Patlabor221 | it was suposed to be for screamers |
| 08:36.28 | Patlabor221 | I think the mk3 was my best texuture yet |
| 08:36.45 | *** join/#bzflag scanline (~micah@aden2-142-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 08:37.08 | fiberchunks | now a texture is simply a picture wrapped around a mesh (vertices) right? |
| 08:37.14 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 08:37.26 | Patlabor221 | it's maped onto the model with texture corrdinates |
| 08:37.43 | Patlabor221 | each vert of each triangle has 2 extra coords |
| 08:37.50 | fiberchunks | oh, so x,y on texture, maps to x,y,z on vertice? |
| 08:37.52 | Patlabor221 | basicly where on the texture does this point map to |
| 08:37.59 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 08:38.09 | fiberchunks | neat |
| 08:38.20 | fiberchunks | how do you define that when you create the texture? |
| 08:38.23 | Patlabor221 | tho if multiple triangles share a vert they may have seperate texture coords |
| 08:38.35 | Patlabor221 | you define the maping when you make the model |
| 08:39.06 | Patlabor221 | then you somehow get a wirefame of the UVs renderd into the texture |
| 08:39.12 | Patlabor221 | then use that a guide to paint over |
| 08:39.24 | Patlabor221 | let me see if I can show you the unwrap for the mk3 |
| 08:41.11 | Patlabor221 | the last beer is the lonelyst beer |
| 08:41.20 | Patlabor221 | make it join it's brethren |
| 08:42.04 | fiberchunks | it will join it's brethren in the great 'waste treatment center in the sky' shortly ;) |
| 08:42.09 | Patlabor221 | www.bakadigital.com/screamers/uvmap.png |
| 08:42.46 | Patlabor221 | http://www.bakadigital.com/screamers/default.bmp is it with out the wire overlay |
| 08:43.00 | Patlabor221 | it started with just the overlay on a blank image |
| 08:43.05 | fiberchunks | hrm -- I don't understand the triangles over the window -- looks strange |
| 08:43.29 | Patlabor221 | those are a plit of the models triangles |
| 08:43.38 | Patlabor221 | but instead of using there XYZ corrds |
| 08:43.43 | Patlabor221 | it's there texture coords |
| 08:43.48 | Patlabor221 | sorry plot |
| 08:44.53 | fiberchunks | well, it would seem to me (and correct me if I'm wrong, of course), that for a symmetrical model, you would have symmetrical mappings, no? |
| 08:45.03 | Patlabor221 | you can do it that way |
| 08:45.20 | Patlabor221 | but then your texture map HAS to be symetrical |
| 08:45.42 | Patlabor221 | I couldn't say put a smudge on just one side |
| 08:45.53 | fiberchunks | oh, ic |
| 08:46.06 | Patlabor221 | and the mk.3 isn't truly symetrical |
| 08:46.20 | Patlabor221 | there is no centerline across the middle of the model |
| 08:46.27 | Patlabor221 | at least not on the top |
| 08:46.35 | fiberchunks | so those 2 lines (from the front bottom and middle), are what |
| 08:46.47 | fiberchunks | to that one vertice over the window |
| 08:47.16 | Patlabor221 | on the top or the bottom of the model? |
| 08:47.23 | Patlabor221 | you mean the diagonals? |
| 08:47.32 | fiberchunks | sorry - bottom -- the top view |
| 08:47.35 | fiberchunks | yeah |
| 08:47.43 | Patlabor221 | the model is made of triangles |
| 08:47.58 | Patlabor221 | so the flat square for the rear deck is made of 2 tris |
| 08:48.04 | Patlabor221 | those are the 2 tris |
| 08:48.24 | Patlabor221 | every triangle there is also a triangle in 3 space |
| 08:48.48 | fiberchunks | oh - so those are 'ridges' so to speak |
| 08:48.57 | Patlabor221 | no just tri edges |
| 08:49.07 | Patlabor221 | those 2 tris on the back are damn near planar |
| 08:49.13 | Patlabor221 | so you don't see the edge |
| 08:49.27 | Patlabor221 | but like along the window frame there is about a60 deg edge. |
| 08:49.52 | Patlabor221 | with just the UVs there is no refrence to 3 space |
| 08:49.59 | Patlabor221 | that's where the model geo comes in |
| 08:50.40 | fiberchunks | does every vertice on the model have to correspond to the map (I guess it would, wouldn't it...) |
| 08:50.52 | Patlabor221 | it should |
| 08:50.56 | fiberchunks | s/map/texture |
| 08:51.09 | Patlabor221 | tho depending on your engine you can have triangles that don't have a texture |
| 08:51.20 | fiberchunks | why would you do that? |
| 08:51.32 | Patlabor221 | if you wanted to for some reason |
| 08:51.45 | fiberchunks | eg? |
| 08:52.05 | Patlabor221 | if you just wanted like some polys to have a solid color |
| 08:52.14 | Patlabor221 | that maybe was colored in code, and not the immage |
| 08:52.18 | Patlabor221 | like a team color or something |
| 08:52.20 | fiberchunks | oh, ok that makes sense |
| 08:52.30 | Patlabor221 | tho if I was gonna do that I would still use a texture |
| 08:52.40 | Patlabor221 | just use code to switch the texuure |
| 08:52.44 | fiberchunks | just a solid colored one? |
| 08:52.53 | Patlabor221 | well like in BZ |
| 08:53.01 | Patlabor221 | with the teleporters |
| 08:53.08 | Patlabor221 | the borders of the TP are textures |
| 08:53.17 | Patlabor221 | but the "Field" part isn't |
| 08:53.26 | Patlabor221 | its just a transperant black. |
| 08:53.34 | Patlabor221 | well dark gray |
| 08:53.41 | fiberchunks | ah, black with an alpha channel right? |
| 08:53.46 | fiberchunks | or grey |
| 08:53.49 | Patlabor221 | alpah component |
| 08:53.57 | fiberchunks | what's the difference |
| 08:53.57 | Patlabor221 | channel usualy refres to a texture |
| 08:54.01 | fiberchunks | oh, thx |
| 08:54.12 | Patlabor221 | when you define a poly you also tell it what color it is |
| 08:54.20 | Patlabor221 | and alpha can be part of that color. |
| 08:54.40 | fiberchunks | alpha is just a measure of transparency correct |
| 08:54.48 | Patlabor221 | opacity yes |
| 08:54.53 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 08:54.59 | Patlabor221 | 1 is fully opaque ( aka solid ) |
| 08:55.04 | Patlabor221 | 0 is fully transpernat |
| 08:55.18 | Patlabor221 | but like on the pyramids |
| 08:55.25 | Patlabor221 | the texure image has no blue in it |
| 08:55.33 | Patlabor221 | it's all just a grayscale image |
| 08:55.39 | fiberchunks | really?! |
| 08:55.46 | fiberchunks | odd |
| 08:55.52 | Patlabor221 | GL says "texure that thing" with this texture, and the ojbect is blue |
| 08:56.06 | Patlabor221 | and GL will blend or "modulate" the colors per pixel |
| 08:56.11 | Patlabor221 | it's a common thing to do |
| 08:56.17 | fiberchunks | neat |
| 08:56.28 | Patlabor221 | that way when you go to the phanom zone, they jus say the color is purple |
| 08:56.33 | Patlabor221 | instead of using a difrent texure |
| 08:56.38 | Patlabor221 | the grass is the same way. |
| 08:56.54 | Patlabor221 | tho it has a tendency to look crapy |
| 08:56.59 | fiberchunks | would it be better to just do everything with textures (performance wise)? |
| 08:57.09 | Patlabor221 | depends on the cars |
| 08:57.12 | Patlabor221 | card |
| 08:57.26 | Patlabor221 | textures take texture RAM |
| 08:57.57 | Patlabor221 | and on like a software implementation that would be sytem ram, and system ram can be slow on slow systems |
| 08:58.04 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 08:58.20 | Patlabor221 | but I say "screw em if they don't have a GF1 :)" |
| 08:58.27 | Patlabor221 | or hell a TNT |
| 08:58.28 | fiberchunks | good point |
| 08:58.43 | fiberchunks | even a gf2 is ~$35 bucks |
| 08:58.48 | Patlabor221 | yup |
| 08:58.53 | Patlabor221 | wel MX's are |
| 08:59.09 | Patlabor221 | MX != normal GF2 |
| 08:59.23 | Patlabor221 | get a 4400 |
| 08:59.24 | fiberchunks | yah, gpu is slower isn't it? |
| 08:59.30 | Patlabor221 | cheaper damn near same speed |
| 08:59.54 | Patlabor221 | the GPU is slower, the mem bus is less, and has less blend modes and some other features |
| 09:00.11 | Patlabor221 | most 4400s can be overclocked to 4600 speed |
| 09:00.23 | Patlabor221 | I must say that ATI drivers suck |
| 09:00.48 | fiberchunks | i don't like noodling with graphics overclocking - system, yes, graphics no (don't ask why, paranoia probably) |
| 09:01.06 | Patlabor221 | my 4600 performs about the same as my radeon 9700 with less artifacting. |
| 09:01.19 | Patlabor221 | ohh card ocing is easy, |
| 09:01.23 | fiberchunks | def. artifact in the graphics sense |
| 09:01.29 | Patlabor221 | hell the gainward card comes with software to do it |
| 09:01.30 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 09:01.45 | Patlabor221 | artifact = crap that is not suposed to be there |
| 09:01.59 | Patlabor221 | I think the nv ref drivers have it |
| 09:02.09 | fiberchunks | hrm? have to look into that |
| 09:02.28 | Patlabor221 | like in BZ sometimes it dosn't fully clear the frame buffer |
| 09:02.40 | Patlabor221 | or dosn't blend a transperant poly on top of other stuff right |
| 09:02.48 | Patlabor221 | and leaves pixels the wrong color |
| 09:02.55 | Patlabor221 | or it's off by a pixel around a poly |
| 09:03.22 | Patlabor221 | small errors that cen creep in from stuf like float to int rounding |
| 09:03.26 | fiberchunks | hrm -- don't think I've noticed that -- but I'll have to pay more attention |
| 09:03.31 | Patlabor221 | or floating point precision problems |
| 09:03.42 | Patlabor221 | the GL drivers from ATI arn't bad |
| 09:03.50 | Patlabor221 | my nvidias run just fine |
| 09:04.04 | Patlabor221 | sorry the ATI GL drivers arn't that good |
| 09:04.39 | fiberchunks | I get graphics skippage from time to time (and I'm not sure if it's net performance, the fact that I use the keyboard exclusively, or haven't tuned my graphics card as much as I should) |
| 09:05.29 | fiberchunks | I think MAC, or was it you, stated: ATI has 2000 engineers in their hardware division, and 2 gorillas coding with their feet in their driver division LOL |
| 09:05.44 | Patlabor221 | not I |
| 09:05.57 | Patlabor221 | I know that NVidia seems to take there driver dev seriously |
| 09:06.00 | fiberchunks | I almost fell off my chair |
| 09:06.16 | Patlabor221 | they have been very good at keeping up with new GL versions |
| 09:06.23 | Patlabor221 | them and 3d labs. |
| 09:06.41 | fiberchunks | I like nvidia's stuff, just wish that they'd do more 'software wise' for us linux folk |
| 09:07.03 | Patlabor221 | seemd to me that the drivers have all the featurs that the windows ones do. |
| 09:07.06 | Patlabor221 | just in a config |
| 09:07.08 | fiberchunks | and there's a lot of us who use their cards because of their superior market share |
| 09:07.10 | Patlabor221 | not a clicky thing. |
| 09:07.17 | fiberchunks | heh |
| 09:07.29 | fiberchunks | well, this is the one case that I would *love* a clicky thing |
| 09:07.36 | Patlabor221 | even saw all the twin view stuff |
| 09:08.37 | fiberchunks | amongst the other multitudes of projects / learning / work, fiberchunks must remember to get his dualview matrox card (3 years old now) working properly (ugh) |
| 09:09.02 | Patlabor221 | G200? |
| 09:09.05 | fiberchunks | G400 |
| 09:09.06 | Patlabor221 | or 400 |
| 09:09.16 | Patlabor221 | they show up as one big ass monitor |
| 09:09.24 | fiberchunks | just haven't taken the time to fiddle with X enough |
| 09:09.25 | Patlabor221 | so it should not be that bad on an issue |
| 09:09.47 | Patlabor221 | IIRC you have to have both monitors at the same red |
| 09:09.48 | Patlabor221 | res |
| 09:10.04 | Patlabor221 | common ramdac thing |
| 09:10.26 | fiberchunks | there are times when I miss the clicky interfaces for all the reading one has to do just to set up a simple thing (like dual mice, for example) |
| 09:10.38 | fiberchunks | what a pita that is, esp. if you're a n00b |
| 09:11.23 | Patlabor221 | I just plug mice in and they work |
| 09:11.36 | fiberchunks | keyboard mapping is another item that constantly irks me at how difficult it is to get my damn extraneous keys working right (and it's simply a matter of reading the right stuff and entering the right stuff) |
| 09:11.58 | fiberchunks | yah, I know -- and that's linux's major stumbling block to mass-market acceptance |
| 09:12.13 | Patlabor221 | well that and pain in the ass driver installs |
| 09:12.27 | Patlabor221 | and no real plug and play networking it seems |
| 09:12.36 | fiberchunks | if everything shared a common format, and info wasn't scattered here there and everywhere, I'd be happy with configuring things solely text mode |
| 09:12.39 | Patlabor221 | like for simple file sharing |
| 09:12.40 | fiberchunks | which, linux? |
| 09:12.45 | fiberchunks | ah, yah |
| 09:12.48 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 09:13.03 | Patlabor221 | and it didn't seem easy to set up PPP for a dialup |
| 09:13.07 | fiberchunks | I just use ssh and scp -- works a treat -- piss on samba, I say (again, documentation reading) |
| 09:13.22 | fiberchunks | no, it isn't -- which has been a LONG standing bitch of mine |
| 09:13.30 | Patlabor221 | actualy with redhat I was able to set up samba rather easy |
| 09:13.35 | Patlabor221 | at least as a client |
| 09:13.37 | fiberchunks | (I've had grief with ppp for at least 5 years now) |
| 09:13.45 | fiberchunks | well, that's good to hear |
| 09:14.02 | Patlabor221 | linux won't be masivly accepted till my dad can set it up |
| 09:14.09 | fiberchunks | precisely |
| 09:14.15 | fiberchunks | or mine |
| 09:14.23 | Patlabor221 | there is something to be said for the power |
| 09:14.44 | Patlabor221 | but not everyone needs or wants the responsiblity that comes with the power |
| 09:15.06 | Patlabor221 | it needs to be able to boot with out a password |
| 09:15.13 | fiberchunks | it's definitely a double-edged sword...on the one hand, you can touch EVERYTHING...on the other - that's the problem (and a lack of standardization across distributions) |
| 09:15.18 | fiberchunks | it can |
| 09:15.23 | fiberchunks | you can auto-login |
| 09:15.27 | Patlabor221 | it can do anyting |
| 09:15.43 | Patlabor221 | there is also the legacy issue |
| 09:15.49 | fiberchunks | such as |
| 09:15.51 | *** join/#bzflag bomber_ (~bomber@ap97.physik.uni-frankfurt.de) |
| 09:15.56 | bomber_ | moin |
| 09:16.00 | Patlabor221 | crap old games for windows |
| 09:16.00 | fiberchunks | moin moin |
| 09:16.03 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 09:16.03 | Patlabor221 | that won't run under it |
| 09:16.11 | Patlabor221 | and stuff like that |
| 09:16.45 | Patlabor221 | too many people have too much time invested in win apps that work for them now |
| 09:16.51 | fiberchunks | funny you mention that -- I've never been much of a gamer til bzflag, and now I find myself sorely lacking Loki's presence |
| 09:16.54 | Patlabor221 | they can't afford to swich |
| 09:17.20 | Patlabor221 | yeah lin games, are almost as rare as mac games. |
| 09:17.36 | fiberchunks | well, I just switched my dad, and with the exception of some damned MASSIVE word docs (that even word barfs on sometimes), he's pretty well clean |
| 09:17.52 | fiberchunks | Loki was a company before it's time, imho |
| 09:18.03 | Patlabor221 | but he could not set it up himself could he? |
| 09:18.06 | Patlabor221 | my dad could not |
| 09:18.16 | Patlabor221 | but my dad can install and config XP |
| 09:18.33 | Patlabor221 | at least to do what he needs to do. |
| 09:18.33 | fiberchunks | oh, he could've gone through the initial install, but after that, the tweaking would've blown him away, absolutely |
| 09:18.39 | fiberchunks | totally concur |
| 09:19.05 | Patlabor221 | my dad would have seen disk druid and gone , " what just flipin do it" |
| 09:19.09 | fiberchunks | however -- that's not to say that I've not seen some nasty issues with any flavor of windows -- driver incompatibilities, etc |
| 09:19.15 | fiberchunks | LOL |
| 09:19.29 | Patlabor221 | well with XP, it'll get it's own drivers off the net now |
| 09:19.33 | fiberchunks | mandrake is far more 'first time user' friendly than redhat |
| 09:19.34 | Patlabor221 | windows update |
| 09:20.06 | Patlabor221 | and it's video drivers support flipin HARDWARE outa the box :) |
| 09:20.11 | fiberchunks | yah -- but that's a little component I'm not overly fond of (the idea is nice, but I don't like not knowing what's going on behind the scenes -- you know what I mean) |
| 09:20.20 | fiberchunks | yah |
| 09:20.30 | Patlabor221 | the nice thing is YOU don't have to use it |
| 09:20.32 | Patlabor221 | you know better |
| 09:20.39 | Patlabor221 | you know how to get the optimal drivers |
| 09:20.42 | fiberchunks | mandrake's a good distro (some of it's scripts are convoluted), but it's a good distro |
| 09:20.44 | Patlabor221 | but for most, it just works. |
| 09:20.44 | fiberchunks | true |
| 09:21.13 | Patlabor221 | I don't mind the redhat 8 install |
| 09:21.18 | fiberchunks | but then there's the untold masses who may be submitting their data (whether personal or hardware, doesn't matter), without their knowledge |
| 09:21.40 | Patlabor221 | and how does that affect them personaly on a day to day basis? |
| 09:21.59 | Patlabor221 | sure there are moral issues but realy what does it do to them? |
| 09:22.19 | fiberchunks | well, a lot of the people I'm involved with care deeply about what data people collect on them (and these are not your uber *nix user, btw) |
| 09:22.25 | Patlabor221 | and it just sends version info not hardware |
| 09:22.32 | fiberchunks | how do you know |
| 09:22.35 | fiberchunks | ? |
| 09:22.39 | Patlabor221 | the site sends the entire list and the client app reads it |
| 09:22.42 | Patlabor221 | I know people at MS |
| 09:23.09 | fiberchunks | if that's all it does, what's the grief with letting people see that that's all it does? |
| 09:23.26 | Patlabor221 | people like to bitch about shit |
| 09:23.29 | Patlabor221 | that's what they do |
| 09:23.33 | Patlabor221 | makes them feel better |
| 09:23.38 | fiberchunks | I mean really, if that algorithm is so key to their business model, then perhaps they should investigate a better business model ;) |
| 09:23.50 | Patlabor221 | it's the same thing redhat update does |
| 09:24.05 | fiberchunks | yah, but I can look at what redhat update does -- |
| 09:24.30 | Patlabor221 | you can look at the logs of the MS one too |
| 09:24.33 | Patlabor221 | you just don't have source |
| 09:24.37 | Patlabor221 | like I say, you know better |
| 09:24.39 | fiberchunks | right :) |
| 09:24.51 | Patlabor221 | but for 85% of thge people out there they don't care |
| 09:25.03 | fiberchunks | perhaps |
| 09:25.03 | Patlabor221 | they just want there stuff to work so the can write a flipin e-mail |
| 09:25.11 | fiberchunks | that, I agree with |
| 09:25.12 | Patlabor221 | and play everquest |
| 09:25.18 | Patlabor221 | or look at porn |
| 09:25.23 | Patlabor221 | or what ever |
| 09:25.31 | fiberchunks | ^^^^^ that's the most important one - pr0n |
| 09:25.45 | Patlabor221 | realy if it sent your flipin exact hardware config to MS, what would it mater. |
| 09:26.00 | fiberchunks | who knows, but more importantly, why should it? |
| 09:26.28 | Patlabor221 | well I think they would perhaps like to know what percentages of people run what CPUS |
| 09:26.38 | fiberchunks | marketing |
| 09:26.42 | Patlabor221 | so they could perhaps make those drivers the best |
| 09:26.49 | Patlabor221 | and yes perhaps market it |
| 09:26.59 | Patlabor221 | but still how does that affect you as a person? |
| 09:27.13 | Patlabor221 | you see more adds for stuff you could actulay use because you have the right hardware? |
| 09:27.21 | fiberchunks | I get crap mail that I don't want, didn't sign up for, and don't need ads for |
| 09:27.34 | fiberchunks | if I want new hardware, I go research new hardware |
| 09:27.37 | Patlabor221 | well that would be if they sent your mail address and that I don't afreee with |
| 09:27.54 | fiberchunks | wait 'til palladium |
| 09:27.55 | Patlabor221 | they don't send anything that ties it to YOU |
| 09:28.02 | fiberchunks | see above |
| 09:28.04 | Patlabor221 | what is that? |
| 09:28.09 | fiberchunks | TCPA |
| 09:28.12 | Patlabor221 | ? |
| 09:29.03 | fiberchunks | sorry -- the copyright protection / violation mechanism that MS and it's 'partners' are trying to legislate into effect -- essentially using hardware to monitor the legality of every file on your system |
| 09:29.05 | Patlabor221 | I am just talking about sutff like adds on TV |
| 09:29.17 | Patlabor221 | your gonna see adds on TV and stuff anyway |
| 09:29.30 | Patlabor221 | ohh yes that crap in WMP |
| 09:29.33 | Patlabor221 | that is lame as hell |
| 09:29.41 | Patlabor221 | I don't use WMP9 |
| 09:29.50 | Patlabor221 | that I agreee about the bitchers |
| 09:29.56 | Patlabor221 | but windows update is not like that |
| 09:29.57 | fiberchunks | that crap, is only going to get worse, and one day, my friend, you will not have a choice whether you can use it or not |
| 09:30.01 | Patlabor221 | just everyone asumes it is |
| 09:30.11 | fiberchunks | wait a couple of years |
| 09:30.12 | Patlabor221 | sure I do, don't update |
| 09:30.35 | fiberchunks | and then, when you want to play whizbang X which requires hardware Y, what do you do? |
| 09:30.38 | Patlabor221 | yes that stuff is being fought tho |
| 09:30.44 | fiberchunks | true enough |
| 09:30.50 | Patlabor221 | get a hack that lets me :) |
| 09:30.56 | fiberchunks | precisely |
| 09:31.06 | Patlabor221 | we are programers arn't we? we can get around this stuff |
| 09:31.48 | Patlabor221 | the DMCA has been thrown outa some cases reacently |
| 09:31.54 | Patlabor221 | it's nice to hear that |
| 09:32.04 | fiberchunks | absolutely -- if it's invented by us, we can break it -- however, we then break some obscure, ridiculous law |
| 09:32.13 | fiberchunks | didn't know that -- it is nice to hear |
| 09:32.36 | Patlabor221 | yeah there are some recent judges that have ruled against it |
| 09:32.55 | fiberchunks | good for them -- about time someone with power (and a spine) decided to do something about it |
| 09:32.57 | Patlabor221 | hell even intel is figting it |
| 09:33.14 | Patlabor221 | remember we allways hear the bad, never the good |
| 09:33.16 | fiberchunks | hrm, I'm not so sure about that -- but I haven't kept very up to date about it |
| 09:33.17 | Patlabor221 | bad sells more papers |
| 09:33.24 | fiberchunks | true enough |
| 09:33.31 | Patlabor221 | ohh I know intell is fighting it |
| 09:33.40 | fiberchunks | what about AMD? |
| 09:33.42 | Patlabor221 | they say that it will hurt new computer sales |
| 09:33.48 | fiberchunks | or Motorola? |
| 09:33.54 | Patlabor221 | I think they are on the same bandwagon, just not as adimate |
| 09:33.58 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 09:34.01 | fiberchunks | good |
| 09:34.16 | Patlabor221 | it fugs with there researchers too |
| 09:34.19 | Patlabor221 | so they don't like it |
| 09:34.21 | fiberchunks | iirc, M$ and the RIAA were the staunchest supports of that shite |
| 09:34.41 | fiberchunks | sry, MPAA too |
| 09:34.53 | Patlabor221 | from what I've seen it's a section of the gov, and the mPAA |
| 09:35.18 | Patlabor221 | and to me it looks like MS is going along with them to get on the good side of the gov after the lawsuits |
| 09:35.32 | fiberchunks | humph |
| 09:35.42 | Patlabor221 | I don't think they realy care ether way, it won't make them any more or less money if they protect or not |
| 09:35.51 | Patlabor221 | they don't sell the media the proctec |
| 09:35.52 | fiberchunks | (think china) |
| 09:36.00 | Patlabor221 | an noone pays them |
| 09:36.10 | Patlabor221 | MS realy is there to make money |
| 09:36.18 | fiberchunks | oh yeah, absolutely |
| 09:36.21 | Patlabor221 | all there other stuff in the past has been to make them money |
| 09:36.34 | Patlabor221 | all the browser stongarming |
| 09:36.49 | Patlabor221 | this dosn't seem in any way to make them money if they do it |
| 09:36.56 | fiberchunks | sure it does |
| 09:37.17 | Patlabor221 | how? unless they get kickbacks from the media companys |
| 09:37.29 | fiberchunks | if you have hardware that requires a valid license or nothing happens, then you MUST buy their software, it absolutely makes them more money |
| 09:37.58 | fiberchunks | I'm not talking strictly media here -- TCPA is the hardware based enforcement of ALL copyrighted material |
| 09:37.59 | Patlabor221 | if it's a law that makes that hardware require that, then they can't controll the OS |
| 09:38.08 | fiberchunks | why not? |
| 09:38.18 | Patlabor221 | APPLE |
| 09:38.24 | fiberchunks | hrm? |
| 09:38.49 | Patlabor221 | the law would never pass if it say "and you MS only has the stuff to do this" |
| 09:39.02 | Patlabor221 | it will say "must conform to some spec" |
| 09:39.14 | Patlabor221 | and that spec will have to be at least published |
| 09:39.26 | Patlabor221 | so that software MFGs can do it |
| 09:39.34 | Patlabor221 | and so the hardware MFGs can make it |
| 09:39.45 | Patlabor221 | most hardware is made out of this country |
| 09:39.55 | Patlabor221 | and not by MS or intel |
| 09:40.01 | Patlabor221 | so it will have to be published |
| 09:40.07 | fiberchunks | ah, but that's not the point -- the point is that MS will most definitely make money out of TCPA |
| 09:40.10 | fiberchunks | I agree |
| 09:40.15 | Patlabor221 | maybe |
| 09:40.23 | fiberchunks | with the above -- but our original point was MS making money off of it |
| 09:40.33 | fiberchunks | s/point/discussion |
| 09:40.43 | Patlabor221 | they may in that case |
| 09:41.07 | Patlabor221 | but it will not be an easy thing to pass and enforce due to the international nature of hardware |
| 09:41.11 | Patlabor221 | but we shalls ee |
| 09:41.13 | fiberchunks | they will - it will 'almost' effectively end pirating (until someone hacks the pinouts of the processors |
| 09:41.19 | fiberchunks | concur |
| 09:41.43 | Patlabor221 | naw some company will "leak" the info |
| 09:41.55 | fiberchunks | heh, hope so |
| 09:42.01 | Patlabor221 | if the major chip mans are against it |
| 09:42.23 | Patlabor221 | that's why I say it'll be a bitch to enforce |
| 09:42.41 | Patlabor221 | the chip mans will do a piss poor implemenetation |
| 09:43.08 | fiberchunks | by the way, this isn't just processor based enforcement, but also hardware media enforcement (harddrives, opticals, etc) |
| 09:43.11 | Patlabor221 | look at how serious the take the other gov standards, for stuff like FCC emisons and stuff :) |
| 09:43.17 | fiberchunks | lol |
| 09:43.42 | Patlabor221 | ohh then it will never come to be, you'll NEVER get all those people to work together |
| 09:43.52 | fiberchunks | EMI, EMI, what the hell is EMI? ;) |
| 09:43.53 | Patlabor221 | how long did it take them to finaly standardise on IDE |
| 09:44.29 | fiberchunks | ahhhhh, but think of this - the major media companies, Sony Time Warner, Disney, et al -- iirc also have major stakes in media manufacturers |
| 09:45.06 | fiberchunks | including overseas ventures -- further - Sony, et al. are also the major players in the MPAA, RIAA, etc |
| 09:45.10 | Patlabor221 | your gonna tell some pidly ass company in hong kong that it has to put this new chip in it's $3 flopy drives if the want to sell to the US |
| 09:45.20 | Patlabor221 | I'm talking about the little guys |
| 09:45.22 | fiberchunks | that's the general idea, yes |
| 09:45.30 | *** join/#bzflag Secret_Hamster (~piffle@pc2-mfld3-5-cust201.nott.cable.ntl.com) |
| 09:45.31 | Patlabor221 | they will never get it right |
| 09:45.33 | fiberchunks | cept little guys don't make millions |
| 09:45.48 | Patlabor221 | sony will do it one way, philips will do it another |
| 09:45.52 | fiberchunks | they make thousands, and millions are what sells in this country (for the majority) |
| 09:46.10 | Patlabor221 | you would be suprised what a little fab can make |
| 09:46.34 | Patlabor221 | you think there are good sony cdroms in all those cheap ass e-machines? :) |
| 09:46.40 | fiberchunks | Philips, much to their credit -- despises what Sony and all have done to the CD format (and has told them to STOP distributing discs with the CD logo on them if they have any sort of copy-protection mechanism) |
| 09:46.48 | fiberchunks | hehee |
| 09:47.00 | Patlabor221 | they all have "craptech" drives |
| 09:47.25 | Patlabor221 | some of thos "little companys" ship more units then sony or the big guy, cus they are cheaper |
| 09:47.29 | fiberchunks | no, I don't 1) cause my sony DVD player just shit the bed (after only 2 years), and 2) I'll never buy Sony again |
| 09:47.50 | fiberchunks | for the various stances they've taken on issues such as this one |
| 09:48.01 | Patlabor221 | yeah my cheap ass $50 dvd does more then my firends sony |
| 09:48.02 | fiberchunks | (the infamous Celine Dion CD being the most notable) |
| 09:48.07 | Patlabor221 | plays MP3s and everything |
| 09:48.09 | fiberchunks | same with my lite-on |
| 09:48.24 | fiberchunks | sorry, internal Sony DVD-ROM (comp, not standalone) |
| 09:48.34 | Patlabor221 | ahhh |
| 09:48.40 | Patlabor221 | I allways get Craptech |
| 09:48.55 | Patlabor221 | it's replaced before it craps out anyway |
| 09:48.58 | fiberchunks | lite-on's a kick-ass little hardware manuf for the money |
| 09:49.16 | Patlabor221 | remonds me I need a DVD burner soon |
| 09:49.54 | fiberchunks | welp, I've gotta get some sleep fore I take the kid to school -- take it easy...thanks for the info yet again :) |
| 09:49.59 | Patlabor221 | mee too |
| 09:50.02 | Patlabor221 | see ya |
| 09:50.29 | *** part/#bzflag fiberchunks (~fiberchun@237.14.252.64.snet.net) |
| 10:54.10 | *** join/#bzflag Chestal (thilo@vmax.unix-ag.uni-siegen.de) |
| 10:54.10 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Chestal] by ChanServ |
| 11:05.25 | *** join/#bzflag Toutatis (~500f80a4@203.194.240.139) |
| 11:08.02 | *** join/#bzflag mjt (kat@ppp-62-235-231-151.tiscali.be) |
| 11:09.58 | *** part/#bzflag mjt (kat@ppp-62-235-231-151.tiscali.be) |
| 11:22.44 | *** join/#bzflag MrCooper (~daenzer@dclient80-218-112-24.hispeed.ch) |
| 12:07.41 | *** join/#bzflag HPP (~DB7654321@chcgil2-ar7-4-3-185-179.chcgil2.dsl-verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 12:36.28 | *** join/#bzflag [dmp] (~somewhere@0x50c4919b.adsl-fixed.tele.dk) |
| 12:39.33 | [dmp] | When i use "Find servers" how does my clients collects the information about servers? |
| 12:43.17 | [dmp] | does it get everything from the listserver ? |
| 13:05.04 | *** join/#bzflag sussudio (Suss@d51132f7.cable.wanadoo.nl) |
| 13:14.28 | *** join/#bzflag [dmp]2 (~somewhere@0x50c4919b.adsl-fixed.tele.dk) |
| 13:14.32 | Chestal | dmp: I think so, yes |
| 13:14.51 | Chestal | list server knows server settings and number of players |
| 13:15.12 | *** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (dbrosius@mxfcl1x56.chesco.com) |
| 13:15.13 | [dmp] | How does it obtain this list. By asking the servers, one by one? |
| 13:15.21 | Chestal | no |
| 13:15.29 | Chestal | server push information to bzfls when anything changes |
| 13:15.33 | [dmp] | ah |
| 13:16.39 | Chestal | I see that you have been working on CTF ladder |
| 13:16.44 | [dmp] | yes |
| 13:17.01 | [dmp] | the algo is done. need to optimize it |
| 13:17.21 | [dmp] | the result is quite.. surprising :-) but i guess it need more data |
| 13:17.21 | Chestal | would be nice if you could see the curernt teams with their (accumulated) ratings |
| 13:17.40 | Chestal | unknown players are one problem |
| 13:17.58 | Chestal | when you have lots of them, difficult to estimate team strength correctly |
| 13:18.22 | [dmp] | yes. I didnt see all these problems, when initially wrote it prototype. |
| 13:18.36 | Chestal | well, doint it this way is a hack |
| 13:18.45 | Chestal | but still more useful then the simple highscoer list on stats.bzflag.org |
| 13:19.01 | Chestal | we can mayeb think of integratign things liek these better in future bzflag versions |
| 13:19.09 | Chestal | your script now running right now? |
| 13:19.27 | Chestal | I saw that it gave me a 1209 rating after I joined and my team captured. After that, it didn't change |
| 13:20.01 | [dmp] | well, i need to starte it manually.. |
| 13:20.03 | [dmp] | waitup |
| 13:20.43 | Chestal | do you see more information? Would be helpful to see team ratings and score changes |
| 13:21.04 | [dmp] | updated |
| 13:21.44 | [dmp] | "team ratings" as in the teams playing on ducati, or the registered ctf-teams ? |
| 13:22.12 | Chestal | the current teams |
| 13:22.41 | Chestal | what do you use as a team rating? add up individual ratings? |
| 13:22.55 | Chestal | hmm, it doesn't show root |
| 13:23.07 | Chestal | we were playing in the same team for >20 minutes I would guess |
| 13:24.01 | [dmp] | yes, i add up each members rating as rembo suggested. |
| 13:25.08 | Chestal | the number of cals for each player would mayeb be interesting, too |
| 13:25.17 | Chestal | calcs, even |
| 13:25.26 | [dmp] | i see root at #41 with 1211 |
| 13:25.45 | Chestal | hmm, now I do, too |
| 13:25.57 | [dmp] | i want to make history to that list as well, so you better can se who improves there score .. eg. weekwise. |
| 13:26.18 | Chestal | right now I am more concerned whether it works well |
| 13:26.38 | Chestal | so seeing the team ratings and score change would be useful. Maybe you can see this |
| 13:27.17 | Chestal | when you notice a capture, you calc the score change for each team? Then distribute it onto the players? |
| 13:29.29 | Chestal | hmm, it says 15 for me |
| 13:29.31 | [dmp] | (just added calcs) |
| 13:29.42 | Chestal | shouldn't it be one calc for each flag capture while I was on? |
| 13:30.00 | [dmp] | yes |
| 13:30.19 | Chestal | 15 seems a lot, but maybe it's correct |
| 13:30.36 | [dmp] | i'll try to check |
| 13:31.05 | [dmp] | It was running yesterday evening as well |
| 13:31.46 | Chestal | could be, I think I checked 2 hours ago, and wasn't on the list. But maybe it just wasn't updated |
| 13:32.15 | Chestal | hmm |
| 13:32.26 | Chestal | if I am not mistaken, Mirella had 1210 / 22 |
| 13:32.32 | Chestal | then I reloaded, now 1161 / 23 |
| 13:32.42 | Chestal | if I didn't get the numbers wrong, this looks strange |
| 13:33.31 | Chestal | but hard to tell |
| 13:33.34 | [dmp] | looking into the log |
| 13:33.41 | Chestal | what do you do, if there was more than one capture between checks? |
| 13:34.01 | [dmp] | do then one by one. |
| 13:34.23 | [dmp] | everything is re-calced for each point |
| 13:35.08 | Chestal | ok, although you'd have to chose an arbitrary order, but that doesn't make that much of a difference |
| 13:37.17 | [dmp] | you can view the log here (http://bzflag.baat.dk/ctf/log.txt) if you want. if it makes sence, at all |
| 13:39.08 | [dmp] | score-check is the sum of the score-diff since last check. should be zero (as i see it). It only goes 10 mins back in a search the the previous score to calc the score-diff |
| 13:39.09 | Chestal | ah, interesting. I think I understand the important parts of it :-) |
| 13:39.25 | [dmp] | great :) |
| 13:40.41 | Chestal | maybe you'd have to adjust some parameters of the ELO formula, but let's watch it a bit |
| 13:41.10 | [dmp] | this kill-ratio calculation. Im not sure whenever it should use the scores from ctf-servers as well, now that we have a didicated ctf-ladder |
| 13:41.33 | Chestal | I'd just try and see ho wit works out for now |
| 13:41.55 | Chestal | hmm, it just came to my mind: when one team is empty, its score gets reset |
| 13:42.16 | Chestal | this could be difficult to handle |
| 13:42.30 | [dmp] | ah yeah |
| 13:43.30 | [dmp] | perhaps the script should check if the old entry have some players which still is active in the new entry before calculating anything |
| 13:43.56 | [dmp] | and that these players havn't dropped in won/lost points |
| 13:44.07 | Chestal | yes, something like that |
| 13:44.43 | Chestal | about the ELO parameters: adding the ratings up might result in team ratings which differ too much |
| 13:44.56 | Chestal | but I'm not sure |
| 13:45.36 | Chestal | the team ratings could be divided by 4, so they would be like an average player rating; not sure if this is better, though |
| 13:45.42 | [dmp] | my math skills isnt good enough to really understand that formula |
| 13:46.40 | Chestal | I guess it's like when ratigns differ by 400, than the betetr ranked team has a win probability of 90% |
| 13:47.10 | Chestal | when it's >1000, it will be close to 100%, so if the better team scores, it will only get 1 point or so |
| 13:47.24 | Chestal | when you divide that onto the players, they might end up getting nothing |
| 13:47.33 | Chestal | difficult to say, though |
| 13:47.58 | Chestal | that's why I think it would be nice to see current teams+ratings and possible score change |
| 13:48.37 | [dmp] | i'll work on that :) |
| 13:49.34 | [dmp] | when more data is collected, we could try both (not dividing, and dividing) and compare the list to see how it differs and what seems most correct. |
| 13:50.16 | Chestal | when yo ulook at id 491, red team captured, btu its ratign was much higher |
| 13:50.23 | Chestal | so it got 0 points :-) |
| 13:50.32 | Chestal | should pobably be rounded up to be at lest 1 point in any case |
| 13:50.59 | [dmp] | hehe :) |
| 13:51.14 | Chestal | of course, it was very uneven teams, 3 vs 2 |
| 13:52.30 | [dmp] | but again, killing somebody should be better than doing nothing |
| 13:53.41 | Chestal | red team got reset a couple of minutes ago |
| 13:54.09 | [dmp] | i'll recalc |
| 13:55.02 | [dmp] | id=503: incorrect checksum for teamscore. (1) |
| 13:55.12 | [dmp] | so at least it dosnt use it |
| 13:55.27 | [dmp] | but i think i better improve this part. |
| 13:57.41 | Chestal | as I suspected, righ tnow it tends to extremes |
| 13:57.59 | Chestal | that is, score change is either close to 0 or close to 50 |
| 13:59.09 | [dmp] | should i try to divide the skill? |
| 13:59.31 | Chestal | good question |
| 13:59.42 | Chestal | team ratings could be divided by 4 |
| 13:59.55 | Chestal | or you coudl adjust the 400 in the ELO formula |
| 14:00.15 | Chestal | another question is whether the change should be applied to each player, or change/#players |
| 14:00.23 | *** join/#bzflag bzgirl (~angelina@24.156.129.90) |
| 14:02.09 | [dmp] | shoundnt team ratings be divied by the number of players? Or do you mean exactly 4? |
| 14:02.10 | [dmp] | hi bzgirl |
| 14:02.20 | bzgirl | hello :) |
| 14:02.25 | Chestal | dmp: no, not by number of players, that wouldn't make sense |
| 14:02.35 | Chestal | dmp: let's say, 7 players of equel strength are on, 4 red, 3 green |
| 14:02.45 | Chestal | you'd want to have the red team a higher rating |
| 14:03.09 | [dmp] | ah |
| 14:03.38 | [dmp] | so 4 is "the maximum allowed on each team" |
| 14:03.40 | Chestal | or divide it by the maximum number ofplayers in the curernt teams? |
| 14:03.51 | Chestal | let's say it's 3 vs 2 (which usually is very unfiar anyway) |
| 14:04.00 | Chestal | we could divide both by 3 |
| 14:04.20 | Chestal | ormayeb we should ignore it unless it's 3 vs 3, 4 vs 3 or 4 vs 4? |
| 14:04.55 | [dmp] | so it would skip the record if uneven teams. |
| 14:05.24 | Chestal | maybe, not sure |
| 14:05.33 | Chestal | maybe it's not necessary |
| 14:05.53 | Chestal | as the resultign team ratings should be very different |
| 14:08.25 | [dmp] | ok, the current problem is, that it uses extremes values due to high skills right. So either this skillscore need to be reduced somehow, or the 400 values should be increased.. right? |
| 14:08.33 | *** join/#bzflag paul (~paulj@itg-gw.cr008.cwt.esat.net) |
| 14:08.49 | Chestal | dmp: I'd say so |
| 14:09.08 | Chestal | dmp: and maybe the change itself should be lower |
| 14:09.21 | Chestal | dmp: getting an average of 25 points for just one capture seems a bit high |
| 14:13.29 | [dmp] | Agree. |
| 14:22.56 | [dmp] | hmm .. this may be way to complicated. If we calulate a users score, when he laves the game based on the result (if the team gained point or lost points during the time he where active). that would give and avg. of 25 for each game "won" pr player. |
| 14:23.36 | Chestal | hmm |
| 14:23.51 | [dmp] | i think its going to be hard to implement it. |
| 14:23.53 | Chestal | I think I prefer the calculation upon each capture |
| 14:24.09 | *** join/#bzflag Piggy (Ferret@d51132f7.cable.wanadoo.nl) |
| 14:24.18 | Chestal | maybe it should use floating point and much smaller changes than 50/25 |
| 14:24.26 | [dmp] | i guess keeping it simple never huts. |
| 14:24.39 | Chestal | it cannot be really accurate anywau |
| 14:24.45 | Chestal | but give a nice indication if it works |
| 14:24.50 | Piggy | oink |
| 14:27.27 | [dmp] | like dividing the value with 10 or so? |
| 14:27.32 | [dmp] | the diff value |
| 14:29.04 | Chestal | yes |
| 14:29.18 | Chestal | hard to say which constants are best... |
| 14:31.24 | *** join/#bzflag isfry (~Fry@65.168.86.30) |
| 14:31.45 | [dmp] | the list have been recalc'd. it seems more sane, that people dont differ too much, based on two days of information. |
| 14:33.49 | Chestal | ah, so you can recalc based on logged information? |
| 14:34.07 | [dmp] | yes |
| 14:34.28 | [dmp] | actually, i remove all info, and recalc everything in the ctf-ladder.. |
| 14:34.37 | [dmp] | so there is room for experiments :) |
| 14:35.07 | bzgirl | hello isfry |
| 14:35.51 | isfry | hi there |
| 14:35.57 | Chestal | dmp: that's good |
| 14:37.46 | [dmp] | chestal: perhaps i should use some time, to make it possible to view the data based for calculations. I guess it will be handy both in testing but for others as well. |
| 14:39.18 | Chestal | dmp: yes, I think it would be useful |
| 14:45.50 | sussudio | http://home.wanadoo.nl/sussudio/bzflag.html |
| 14:48.35 | captain_proton | "* shut up doug" |
| 14:48.40 | *** join/#bzflag fiberchunks (~fiberchun@237.14.252.64.snet.net) |
| 14:49.07 | bzdoug_ | captain_proton: I saw that |
| 14:49.20 | sussudio | indeed |
| 14:50.26 | bzdoug_ | slick |
| 14:50.27 | bzdoug_ | kewl |
| 14:50.28 | bzdoug_ | cool |
| 14:50.35 | captain_proton | not here, boy |
| 14:51.18 | bzdoug_ | boo |
| 14:51.32 | captain_proton | standing at the wrong end of the cheese-stamp line? |
| 14:52.32 | bzdoug_ | squawk |
| 14:53.08 | sussudio | !uptime |
| 14:53.10 | Piggy | Bot Uptime: (29 minutes 11 seconds) System Uptime: (8 days, 23:09) |
| 14:53.18 | sussudio | :-P~~ |
| 14:53.43 | bzdoug_ | !list |
| 14:53.56 | bzdoug_ | useless bots |
| 14:54.00 | bzdoug_ | Piggy: die |
| 14:54.05 | bzdoug_ | Piggy: kill |
| 14:54.09 | bzdoug_ | Piggy: insult me |
| 14:54.20 | Piggy | you're already ugly |
| 14:54.31 | bzdoug_ | wow, such a bot |
| 14:54.36 | bzdoug_ | cheap and slow |
| 14:54.45 | Piggy | like your mom |
| 14:55.13 | bzdoug_ | YO MOMMA is the cheap and slow one |
| 14:55.26 | Piggy | too late |
| 14:56.42 | bzdoug_ | too late |
| 15:05.39 | *** join/#bzflag David_V (~david@c213-200-132-192.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 15:05.47 | David_V | hi all |
| 15:05.54 | bzgirl | hello David_V |
| 15:05.58 | David_V | just checking in for a little |
| 15:06.00 | [dmp] | hi David_V :) |
| 15:06.04 | David_V | hey ;) |
| 15:06.58 | sussudio | david piiiiiiig |
| 15:07.30 | David_V | that is an interesting form of welcoming |
| 15:08.08 | [dmp] | it's because you are swedish, are you smell funny :) |
| 15:08.08 | [dmp] | are=and |
| 15:47.48 | bzdoug_ | do IDE cables HAVE to be with the long part hooked to the motherboard and the short parts to the drives? |
| 15:48.07 | bzdoug_ | cant I flip the cable around? |
| 15:48.25 | David_V_away | you can bzdoug_ |
| 15:48.27 | David_V_away | but... |
| 15:48.34 | David_V_away | then you can only use it for one drive, theoretically |
| 15:48.41 | David_V_away | in a normal case |
| 15:48.42 | bzdoug_ | oh? |
| 15:48.45 | bzdoug_ | rats |
| 15:48.52 | David_V_away | well... i'll try to explain |
| 15:48.54 | bzdoug_ | oh |
| 15:48.58 | bzdoug_ | in a normal cse |
| 15:49.04 | bzdoug_ | but this aint a normal case |
| 15:49.11 | David_V_away | if you turn it, then you will have to put the other HDD on a weird location |
| 15:49.16 | bzdoug_ | this is a duron mobo crammed into a macintosh centris case |
| 15:49.17 | David_V_away | but otherwise there should be no problem |
| 15:49.21 | bzdoug_ | ah |
| 15:49.21 | bzdoug_ | ok |
| 15:49.22 | bzdoug_ | good |
| 15:49.33 | David_V_away | duron? never heard of |
| 15:49.40 | bzdoug_ | AMD duron |
| 15:49.48 | David_V_away | ok but that's not a mobo |
| 15:49.51 | David_V_away | that's the proc |
| 15:49.56 | bzdoug_ | below the athlon |
| 15:50.02 | David_V_away | i know |
| 15:50.04 | bzdoug_ | yea, but its a duron motherboard |
| 15:50.15 | David_V_away | oh ok... doh |
| 15:50.22 | David_V_away | thing is, i've never heard of their mobos before |
| 15:50.37 | David_V_away | but fitting that into a mac... oh well, good luck :) |
| 15:50.40 | bzdoug_ | hmm, lemme refrais that |
| 15:50.48 | bzdoug_ | its a mobo that supports durons |
| 15:50.49 | bzdoug_ | :) |
| 15:51.07 | David_V_away | sorry, let me take a second for shaking myself |
| 15:51.18 | bzdoug_ | lol |
| 15:51.21 | David_V_away | there, now i feel better. Duron is the CPU type, AMD is the company, remember that Dave |
| 15:51.30 | David_V_away | ok, whatever mobo it is |
| 15:51.38 | bzdoug_ | lol |
| 15:51.41 | David_V_away | i must be reeeaally tired today |
| 15:51.46 | bzdoug_ | I dont know who made this mobo |
| 15:51.51 | bzdoug_ | it has no part number on it |
| 15:51.59 | bzdoug_ | somebody must have pulled the sticker off |
| 15:52.03 | David_V_away | hm |
| 15:52.27 | David_V_away | i've basically dealt with PCs in my life, i have no idea about mac hardware |
| 15:52.46 | David_V_away | but anyway as you connect the HDDs to the mobo |
| 15:52.53 | bzdoug_ | :) |
| 15:52.58 | sussudio | it gives an ID on boot you dumbass |
| 15:52.58 | bzdoug_ | ack |
| 15:53.02 | bzdoug_ | breakfast |
| 15:53.09 | David_V_away | ok gtg as well cya |
| 15:53.12 | bzdoug_ | cya |
| 15:53.23 | sussudio | peeeeegdoug |
| 16:07.37 | *** join/#bzflag paul (~paulj@itg-gw.cr008.cwt.esat.net) |
| 16:08.43 | *** join/#bzflag paul (~paulj@itg-gw.cr008.cwt.esat.net) |
| 16:15.35 | captain_proton | anyone else experiencing freeze on /lagstats ? |
| 16:16.18 | sussudio | muh? |
| 16:18.22 | bzdoug_ | bah |
| 16:18.30 | bzdoug_ | it locks up when booting |
| 16:18.45 | captain_proton | surprise surprise! |
| 16:18.50 | captain_proton | bzdoug_ has a broken computer |
| 16:19.03 | bzdoug_ | the bios locks up |
| 16:19.05 | bzdoug_ | not the OS |
| 16:19.36 | captain_proton | surprise surprise! |
| 16:19.37 | captain_proton | bzdoug_ has a broken computer |
| 16:20.49 | *** join/#bzflag [TeA|TrEE] (~Nicholas@pD9E97B8D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:21.18 | [TeA|TrEE] | hello |
| 16:21.29 | bzdoug_ | I suppose you cant flip cables backwads |
| 16:21.32 | bzdoug_ | wards |
| 16:22.01 | sussudio | no you can not with udma cables |
| 16:22.30 | bzdoug_ | dumb PCs only 2 IDE channels |
| 16:22.53 | sussudio | peeeeg |
| 16:23.13 | captain_proton | IDE sux0rs |
| 16:23.16 | captain_proton | use a real bus |
| 16:23.26 | bzdoug_ | like... |
| 16:23.28 | bzdoug_ | scsi? |
| 16:23.31 | captain_proton | yeah |
| 16:23.43 | bzdoug_ | a) case dont have room for a scsi card |
| 16:23.52 | bzdoug_ | b) I would need to get a scsi drive |
| 16:23.58 | bzdoug_ | c) they are expensive |
| 16:24.17 | captain_proton | if you're unwilling to pay for real equipment, don't bitch about what you have |
| 16:24.26 | bzdoug_ | bah |
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| 17:06.41 | fiberchunks | is there some reason why the #includes in bzflag don't use the std C++ libs (i.e. cstdlib, cctype, etc?) |
| 17:09.03 | Patlabor221 | IRIX |
| 17:09.07 | Patlabor221 | and other crap compilers |
| 17:09.12 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 17:09.22 | Patlabor221 | hence all the CXX stuff too |
| 17:09.27 | fiberchunks | so that is a necessary evil ten |
| 17:09.28 | fiberchunks | then |
| 17:09.36 | Patlabor221 | basicly Tim |
| 17:09.57 | Patlabor221 | it's a choice to continue suporting that platfrom and build system. |
| 17:10.24 | fiberchunks | hrm |
| 17:10.32 | Patlabor221 | abd #defing ALL of them would be ugly. |
| 17:10.38 | fiberchunks | true |
| 17:10.46 | fiberchunks | good afternoon, by the way |
| 17:11.03 | Patlabor221 | morning :) |
| 17:11.19 | fiberchunks | heh, good point |
| 17:11.24 | Patlabor221 | get the kid off to scholl ok? |
| 17:11.38 | fiberchunks | oh yeah - the lady took care of it while the old man rested ;) |
| 17:12.58 | fiberchunks | was looking at bzflag.cxx -- is all that cruft for parsing argc and argv still necessary for windows? I notice there's a FIXME in there about it |
| 17:13.28 | Patlabor221 | it's how they chose to do it |
| 17:13.39 | Patlabor221 | is the fixme the part on how to get the app dir? |
| 17:14.00 | Patlabor221 | and the windows one takes args |
| 17:14.14 | fiberchunks | no, that's the 'ridiculously complex' part -- the FIXME is for argc and argv accesses |
| 17:14.46 | Patlabor221 | yeah the 'ridiculously complex' can be replaced by a single win32 API call |
| 17:14.59 | Patlabor221 | GetModuleFileName |
| 17:15.14 | fiberchunks | fix that, would you? ;) |
| 17:15.25 | Jormungandr | re |
| 17:15.47 | fiberchunks | ooo, tea, or beer |
| 17:15.50 | Patlabor221 | I could but then I looked and the path isn't even used |
| 17:15.55 | Jormungandr | java |
| 17:16.09 | Jormungandr | beer this early would wreck me :) |
| 17:16.12 | Secret_Hamster | tea is not a beverage, it's a form of oriental torture |
| 17:16.18 | fiberchunks | LOL |
| 17:16.22 | Jormungandr | heh |
| 17:16.32 | Patlabor221 | coming from a brit |
| 17:16.42 | Jormungandr | sometimes we do an english breakfast with mushrooms on toast and earl grey tea. |
| 17:16.43 | Secret_Hamster | ye, well it gives me the runs |
| 17:16.47 | Jormungandr | it's really good. |
| 17:16.51 | Patlabor221 | ick |
| 17:16.55 | Jormungandr | it's not really traditional |
| 17:16.57 | Jormungandr | but I like it. |
| 17:17.30 | fiberchunks | but it takes too much time |
| 17:17.30 | Jormungandr | we got into the habit when we visited glastonbury on weekends, and the place we went to eat always served it. |
| 17:17.33 | Secret_Hamster | traditional english breakfast hardens your arteries so much you die of a heart attack at the end of it |
| 17:17.37 | Jormungandr | so it brings back good memories. |
| 17:17.39 | Jormungandr | nod. |
| 17:17.49 | Patlabor221 | fiber the only reason they do all that is so that they can call mymain with athe argc argv and use the same code to parse the command line. |
| 17:18.02 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 17:18.09 | Secret_Hamster | Jormungandr: you based in the UK? |
| 17:18.11 | Secret_Pig | ;-) |
| 17:18.23 | Patlabor221 | the design is very unix centeric if you haven't noticed :) |
| 17:18.43 | fiberchunks | ~pig /me |
| 17:18.48 | | /me is 88% pig! |
| 17:18.48 | Jormungandr | secret: nope... lived there for about 4 years. met my sweetie there. |
| 17:18.54 | fiberchunks | ooo |
| 17:19.02 | Secret_Hamster | ahh notice the past tense now |
| 17:19.07 | Patlabor221 | and the windows port wasn't realy understood that well whenit was done. |
| 17:19.24 | fiberchunks | #1 preferred development platform |
| 17:19.25 | fiberchunks | ;) |
| 17:19.36 | [TeA] | ~fish /me |
| 17:19.47 | Jormungandr | I would love to go back to England for pretty much any amount of time. |
| 17:19.55 | Jormungandr | just hasn't been in the budget. |
| 17:20.00 | Patlabor221 | when I did the intial DX res swictching code, it was funny crs changed it after I put it in. |
| 17:20.04 | Patlabor221 | then it didn't work |
| 17:20.08 | fiberchunks | heh |
| 17:20.17 | Patlabor221 | so he had to put it back to more like the way it was. |
| 17:20.33 | fiberchunks | perhaps *nix ppl should stick to coding *nix, and let the windows gurus do their thing? :\ |
| 17:20.36 | Patlabor221 | and I'm like "I did it that way cus that's the way it works!" |
| 17:20.47 | Patlabor221 | there is nothing wrong with cross plat |
| 17:20.56 | fiberchunks | didn't say that |
| 17:21.04 | Patlabor221 | you just have to come up with a design that works on both. |
| 17:21.08 | Patlabor221 | BZ's works |
| 17:21.11 | Patlabor221 | its just not prety |
| 17:21.30 | Patlabor221 | I prefrer to abstract it and go with something that's not tied to any OS |
| 17:21.35 | fiberchunks | just meant: if you know windows, code windows, know *nix, code *nix -- leave each to their own (unless you spend some time researching api's and such) |
| 17:21.43 | fiberchunks | gpoint |
| 17:22.01 | Patlabor221 | depends on the person, nothing says you can't know ALL OSs |
| 17:22.38 | Secret_Hamster | Jormungandr: well currently my view of the UK is pretty poor. The sun has stopped shining, and work/tax burden sucks big time |
| 17:22.44 | Patlabor221 | I know a goodly amount of Mac, and of course windows. |
| 17:22.52 | Patlabor221 | and now a bit o the *nix |
| 17:23.09 | fiberchunks | mmm, I magine since you know mac, you'll be getting more intimate with *nix |
| 17:23.20 | Patlabor221 | I mean old school mac |
| 17:23.23 | Patlabor221 | not X |
| 17:23.24 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 17:23.30 | Patlabor221 | system 7 :) |
| 17:23.41 | Patlabor221 | Handles and such |
| 17:23.44 | fiberchunks | yay! my IIsi ran system 7 |
| 17:24.03 | Patlabor221 | my mac here still dual boots 9 and X |
| 17:24.27 | Patlabor221 | tho moslty I just work with a PC based implementaion of the MacOS Toolbox nowadays |
| 17:24.33 | Jormungandr | I finally got rid of my dual boot 9/x and just have jaguar |
| 17:24.50 | Jormungandr | oh... isn't new iMovie due out friday? |
| 17:24.52 | Patlabor221 | X don't run MPW or resourcer that well |
| 17:25.31 | Jormungandr | I get a lot of mileage out of that program |
| 17:26.02 | Jormungandr | virtix has some great transitions that I bought. |
| 17:26.25 | fiberchunks | combine the beauty of the mac, the power of linux, and the ease of use (clickity interfaces) of windows, and you have one damn fine machine |
| 17:27.44 | David_V_away | hehe :) |
| 17:28.25 | fiberchunks | course, when that happens, we'll have instantaneous travel, and I'll be 40000 years old (and very,very dead ;) ) |
| 17:30.40 | sussudio | MrApathyCream is 40000 years old |
| 17:30.46 | fiberchunks | lol |
| 17:30.53 | fiberchunks | well preserved |
| 17:31.02 | Patlabor221 | I think he's undead |
| 17:32.52 | fiberchunks | mac_zombie? sounds like a franchise |
| 17:33.57 | *** part/#bzflag David_V_away (~david@c213-200-132-192.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 17:34.52 | Patlabor221 | there are other things that are undead the zombies |
| 17:35.00 | Patlabor221 | zombies are slow and stupid |
| 17:35.04 | Patlabor221 | he could be a lich |
| 17:35.12 | fiberchunks | ah what? |
| 17:35.22 | Patlabor221 | lich |
| 17:35.32 | fiberchunks | wassat? |
| 17:35.40 | fiberchunks | ~dict lich |
| 17:35.43 | Patlabor221 | let me find a good definition |
| 17:36.37 | Patlabor221 | basicly it's a sorcerer or wisard who uses the necromantic arts to cheat death by making himself undead |
| 17:36.38 | Jormungandr | a lich is where a sorceror makes his body immortal, and generally not all that attractive in the process. |
| 17:36.47 | Jormungandr | :) |
| 17:36.56 | Patlabor221 | yes they is ugly |
| 17:37.00 | Patlabor221 | but VERY powerfull |
| 17:37.03 | Patlabor221 | and moldy |
| 17:37.09 | fiberchunks | hehe |
| 17:37.16 | [TeA] | need somewone who knows redhat well |
| 17:37.31 | Patlabor221 | define well |
| 17:37.34 | Secret_Hamster | actaully I think it's spelt liche |
| 17:37.45 | Patlabor221 | or litch |
| 17:37.45 | Secret_Hamster | soft 'ch' |
| 17:37.50 | Patlabor221 | I am looking it up now |
| 17:37.52 | fiberchunks | ~spell lich |
| 17:37.53 | | possible spellings for lich: Licha loch lech Mich Rich lice lick rich Lucho litchi lurch lochs lunch Koch |
| 17:38.21 | Patlabor221 | online dictionary it uses don't know |
| 17:38.36 | Patlabor221 | one sec,have Return to the tomb of horrors here |
| 17:39.23 | *** join/#bzflag scanlime (~micah@aden2-241-dhcp.Colorado.EDU) |
| 17:40.13 | fiberchunks | preferably something based on telepathy |
| 17:40.37 | Patlabor221 | D&D spells it lich |
| 17:41.15 | Patlabor221 | lich and demi-lich |
| 17:41.30 | fiberchunks | hrm -- wonder if ibot could have a <context> thing implemented (e.g. ~spell lich <context> D&D |
| 17:42.06 | fiberchunks | whoops -- ~define, not ~spell |
| 17:42.14 | fiberchunks | argh, ~dict |
| 17:42.24 | Secret_Hamster | well I stand corrected (if I was not actually sitting down) |
| 17:42.48 | Patlabor221 | they may have spelled it difrent in british versions , you never know |
| 17:42.59 | Secret_Hamster | what is ibot based on. or is it actually an infobot? |
| 17:43.09 | fiberchunks | maddog always says: hi fibre |
| 17:43.11 | scanlime | it's a blootbot |
| 17:43.26 | Secret_Hamster | blootbot? |
| 17:43.39 | Secret_Hamster | wtf is a blootbot? |
| 17:43.39 | scanlime | blootbot. |
| 17:43.42 | fiberchunks | ~dict blootbot |
| 17:43.48 | fiberchunks | bah! |
| 17:43.51 | Secret_Hamster | hah |
| 17:43.54 | scanlime | ibot tell Secret_Hamster about blootbot |
| 17:44.07 | Patlabor221 | is it Xconfigurator in redhat? |
| 17:44.13 | fiberchunks | think so |
| 17:44.30 | Secret_Hamster | yep, not a bad tool actually |
| 17:44.33 | fiberchunks | or XFconfig -- something like that |
| 17:45.32 | Secret_Hamster | it might be XConfigurator |
| 17:45.41 | Secret_Hamster | capital 'C' |
| 17:45.54 | scanlime | tab key is your friend |
| 17:46.01 | [TeA] | ~ducatictf |
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| 17:46.22 | Secret_Hamster | hum well that web-site is just a mine of information. NOT |
| 17:46.37 | [TeA] | lupi: hello |
| 17:46.44 | Secret_Hamster | was kinda thinking of creating my own bot |
| 17:47.08 | Secret_Hamster | [TeA]: gee you have such an effect on people |
| 17:47.18 | [TeA] | ;-) |
| 17:47.31 | hardwire | hmm |
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| 17:47.49 | hardwire | "booger" is in my xchat hilight notification |
| 17:47.54 | [TeA] | loopy: hello |
| 17:48.36 | fiberchunks | brb, must irrigate my lizard |
| 17:48.47 | loopydoo | hiho |
| 17:50.39 | fiberchunks | he's happy now -- 85* and 75 % rel humidity |
| 17:51.31 | Secret_Hamster | shit, I'm in serious trouble. make is returning errors. Won't compile anything |
| 17:51.47 | fiberchunks | don't compile then ;) |
| 17:52.20 | fiberchunks | ~emulate fiberchunks <action> mimicks bzdoug at inappropriate times |
| 17:52.29 | fiberchunks | ~emulate fiberchunks |
| 17:52.34 | Secret_Hamster | hum, kinda hard when you need to install a perl module |
| 17:52.51 | fiberchunks | hrm |
| 17:53.00 | Secret_Hamster | shit shit shit |
| 17:53.36 | fiberchunks | Patlabor221: do you (or have you ever), used doxygen? |
| 17:53.38 | Secret_Hamster | arggh gonna have to spend tonight installing new distros I think |
| 17:53.48 | fiberchunks | try mandrake |
| 17:54.02 | Secret_Hamster | never liked mandrake. bloated |
| 17:54.18 | fiberchunks | if you do decide to try out different distros -- hrm? only as bloated as you want it to be |
| 17:54.52 | Secret_Hamster | I kinda want something that you only really install what you want. Preferably recompiling |
| 17:55.01 | fiberchunks | slackware -- gentoo |
| 17:55.22 | fiberchunks | gentoo will compile _everything_ from scratch |
| 17:55.26 | Secret_Hamster | I don't like Gnome, I detest KDE. both RH and MDK are based around them |
| 17:55.47 | Secret_Hamster | yea, waiting for 1.4rc3 to come out though |
| 17:56.01 | fiberchunks | no, they're not (a popular misconception) -- I don't use gnome or kde, and I run mdk (but yes, I do have the libs installed -- merely for app compatibility) |
| 17:56.45 | Secret_Hamster | I tried slackware 8.1 but it hardly has any packages, so I don't see the point. It's so far behind on XFree (4.1 I think) |
| 17:56.57 | fiberchunks | well, lemme clarify -- they are installed by default -- but easy to remove and / or not use |
| 17:57.03 | Secret_Hamster | fiberchunks: hum might give it a go then |
| 17:57.23 | Secret_Hamster | I've got 9 (the lastest anyway) on a DVD somewhere |
| 17:57.34 | fiberchunks | just when you install -- chooose the 'expert' option, and do 'manual package selection' |
| 17:57.36 | Secret_Hamster | i got 30Gbs to play with |
| 17:57.41 | fiberchunks | then you can do whatever you want |
| 17:57.57 | fiberchunks | I use fluxbox for my WM, and only have the gnome libs installed on this machine |
| 17:58.14 | Secret_Hamster | I get fed-up of deselecting 1001 pkgs they try to install |
| 17:58.22 | Secret_Hamster | hey, I use openbox |
| 17:58.35 | Secret_Hamster | It's nice. Light and responsice |
| 17:58.41 | fiberchunks | yah -- I agree with that -- I do wish they'd have a 'deselect all' option (cept for the base packages of course |
| 17:58.51 | fiberchunks | same with flux |
| 17:59.14 | fiberchunks | I may one day try windowmaker, as I'm kindof (but not really) missing icons on my desktop |
| 17:59.18 | Secret_Hamster | heard wonderful things about flux, very little difference with open as far as I've seen |
| 17:59.30 | fiberchunks | not familiar with openbo |
| 17:59.31 | fiberchunks | x |
| 17:59.39 | Secret_Hamster | I use windowmaker too, occasionally. Really like it |
| 17:59.44 | fiberchunks | but if it's based on blackbox, then it's similar |
| 18:00.23 | Secret_Hamster | yea it is. very very similar to flux. few minor differences with the bar is all that seems diferrent |
| 18:00.28 | bzgirl | fiberchunks use wm dockapps with fluxbox, as good as icons |
| 18:00.44 | Secret_Hamster | yea, kinda why I got into openbox |
| 18:01.01 | fiberchunks | bzgirl: lack of good wm apps is why I don't use it (ones that I need anyway) |
| 18:01.03 | Secret_Hamster | you can drop wmapps onto the slit |
| 18:01.52 | bzgirl | fiberchunks wmdrawer..can add any app to the drawer |
| 18:02.13 | fiberchunks | ooo, didn't know about that one -- perhaps I'll re-check it out |
| 18:03.04 | bzgirl | fiberchunks i have bitchx,gftp,pan,sylpheed,gqview and gimp in one icon |
| 18:03.10 | Secret_Hamster | what do people reckong to Debian? |
| 18:03.56 | fiberchunks | debian's a great distro -- different, and releases happen very slowly (in the stable tree), but there is a testing branch too (which is usually very stable as well) |
| 18:04.06 | Secret_Hamster | upto date, efficient. Not to much messing around searching for libraries all the time |
| 18:04.29 | Secret_Hamster | i've got 3.0 on disk somewhere too |
| 18:04.55 | fiberchunks | if you want something that is always up to date -- use gentoo -- but it's also very bleeding edge I suppose |
| 18:05.12 | fiberchunks | heh, course, you could always use the LFS |
| 18:05.42 | bzgirl | Secret_Hamster debian unstable seems to fit what your looking for |
| 18:05.58 | Secret_Hamster | yea, was thinking about that. But gentoo is more my cup o' java. Not quite ready for total build of system |
| 18:06.34 | Secret_Hamster | I've got the LFS stuff on disk as well somewhere |
| 18:06.37 | fiberchunks | ugh, now the dog must irrigate .. . brb |
| 18:07.28 | Secret_Hamster | what about open/free/netbsd? I've got that too. (netbsd) has that a decent amount of packages and upto date? |
| 18:07.41 | fiberchunks | not familiar - so won't comment |
| 18:08.03 | Secret_Hamster | I really should get out more :) So many distros, so little time and disk space to test |
| 18:08.24 | fiberchunks | man, check out distrowatch.org -- every distro under the sun |
| 18:08.37 | Secret_Hamster | Hum perhaps my new career should be an IT journalist :) |
| 18:08.51 | fiberchunks | sry .com |
| 18:09.12 | Secret_Hamster | fiberchunks: regular visitor to linuxiso, but they don't give reviews. Does distrowatch |
| 18:10.06 | Secret_Hamster | host not found! distro-watch? |
| 18:10.19 | fiberchunks | nah, www.distrowatch.com |
| 18:10.19 | Secret_Hamster | ahh .com. should carry on reading |
| 18:10.26 | fiberchunks | hehe |
| 18:10.53 | fiberchunks | yes, they do |
| 18:14.41 | stibnite | anybody have the MS java sdk? |
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| 18:23.54 | *** join/#bzflag m1 (~80aef518@203.194.240.139) |
| 18:24.36 | m1 | Chestal: are you there? |
| 18:25.05 | Chestal | yes? |
| 18:29.31 | *** join/#bzflag isfry (~Fry@65.168.86.30) |
| 18:30.59 | Patlabor221 | I can probalby get the MS java SDK |
| 18:34.29 | Secret_Hamster | hum anyone ever heard of or used Lunar Linux? |
| 18:35.11 | sussudio | loony linux? |
| 18:35.13 | Patlabor221 | I have heard of it |
| 18:35.27 | Patlabor221 | and cap complaing that it was missing stuff |
| 18:38.43 | Secret_Hamster | ahh, okay. lnong run looks like gentoo then, once they release 1.4rc3 |
| 18:39.04 | Secret_Hamster | so, tonight play with mandrake? |
| 18:39.11 | sussudio | http://bzflag.dontexist.org/ |
| 18:40.04 | Patlabor221 | was that jsut form last night? |
| 18:40.11 | sussudio | yeh. |
| 18:40.23 | Patlabor221 | fiber got the best quote. |
| 18:40.25 | sussudio | 23 hour period |
| 18:40.38 | Secret_Hamster | jeez, I talk too much |
| 18:40.39 | Patlabor221 | I was in explain mode last night. |
| 18:41.42 | Secret_Hamster | mind you surprising to see me off top spot. normally I speak as everyone else put together |
| 18:41.47 | Patlabor221 | you have a limit? |
| 18:41.57 | sussudio | uh huh. |
| 18:42.08 | Secret_Hamster | nice to see my quote makes no sense |
| 18:42.40 | Secret_Hamster | much like most of what I say |
| 18:43.16 | Patlabor221 | at least mine wasn't my german translation of FROG BLAST THE VENT CORE! |
| 18:43.39 | sussudio | hm 1G/month homepage limit |
| 18:43.59 | Patlabor221 | how much you pay for that? |
| 18:44.08 | Patlabor221 | free? |
| 18:44.22 | sussudio | umm included |
| 18:44.33 | sussudio | 28 euro at the moment..... |
| 18:44.41 | Patlabor221 | a month? |
| 18:44.46 | sussudio | yeah. |
| 18:44.53 | Patlabor221 | how much space |
| 18:44.59 | sussudio | 20mb |
| 18:45.08 | sussudio | used to be 2mb |
| 18:45.16 | Patlabor221 | ouch |
| 18:45.28 | Patlabor221 | I get 500megs unmeeterd for 100 US a year |
| 18:45.38 | Patlabor221 | and they pay domain reg |
| 18:45.52 | Patlabor221 | and my own mail server |
| 18:46.00 | sussudio | it's just my cablemodem isp's homepage |
| 18:46.09 | Patlabor221 | ahhh |
| 18:46.20 | Patlabor221 | got it |
| 18:46.28 | Patlabor221 | thought it was just hosting, sorry |
| 18:46.28 | Secret_Hamster | I get 5Mb, but no php/cgi at all |
| 18:46.42 | Patlabor221 | I have CGI |
| 18:46.45 | Patlabor221 | don't know about php |
| 18:46.59 | Patlabor221 | ohh seesm I get php too |
| 18:47.17 | Patlabor221 | how large is that? |
| 18:47.25 | Patlabor221 | larger then a physics book? |
| 18:47.48 | Secret_Hamster | that's for being cheeky you young pup |
| 18:48.10 | Patlabor221 | i'm like what 3 or 4 years younger then you? |
| 18:48.27 | Secret_Hamster | I don't know how old are you? |
| 18:48.34 | Patlabor221 | 30 |
| 18:48.50 | Secret_Hamster | your not younger than me then |
| 18:49.17 | Patlabor221 | well maybe, when is your birthday? |
| 18:49.36 | Secret_Hamster | 18 days ago |
| 18:49.45 | Patlabor221 | ohhyeah then I'm older |
| 18:50.24 | Patlabor221 | being born on the day that the first PONG machine was installed in a retail location :) |
| 18:50.24 | Secret_Hamster | well that depresses me further |
| 18:51.29 | Secret_Hamster | here I am in my rpime looking at driving jobs and factory work. mean while you live the high life with X amount of Pcs under your desk |
| 18:52.27 | Secret_Hamster | so whats the verdict of people. Mandrake or Debian for experimentation tonight |
| 18:52.31 | Patlabor221 | well most fo them are crap |
| 18:52.39 | Patlabor221 | the PCS |
| 18:52.42 | Patlabor221 | not the OSs |
| 18:52.57 | Secret_Hamster | well the best I have is a Duron 850 |
| 18:53.14 | Secret_Hamster | not asking for experience just votes |
| 18:53.26 | Secret_Hamster | i'll giove feed back as to what I think |
| 18:53.57 | Secret_Hamster | oh shit, my typings gone. could be something to do with the beer I'm drinking |
| 18:54.14 | Patlabor221 | that is faster then some of them under the desk |
| 18:54.21 | Patlabor221 | actualy faster then all but 1 |
| 18:56.09 | Patlabor221 | and you can overclock those suckers prety good |
| 18:56.18 | Patlabor221 | I have a 1 gig duron runnin at 1.3 |
| 18:57.34 | Secret_Hamster | weel the other two are P166's and my 486 bit the dust just before christmas |
| 18:58.06 | *** join/#bzflag Ruudi (Sacha@80-235-62-132-dsl.trt.estpak.ee) |
| 18:58.22 | Ruudi | hi |
| 18:58.35 | Ruudi | extreme slow connectin to freenode.net |
| 18:58.36 | bzgirl | hi Ruudi |
| 18:58.46 | Ruudi | you here allready |
| 18:58.52 | Ruudi | got enogh form game? |
| 18:59.34 | Ruudi | angelina is a nice name one of you nicks :? |
| 19:00.16 | bzgirl | i can irc and play at once :) |
| 19:00.29 | Ruudi | alt tab kind of thing? |
| 19:00.45 | bzgirl | no, desktop-game laptop-irc |
| 19:01.01 | Secret_Hamster | I was gonna sy big screen kinda idea |
| 19:01.10 | Secret_Hamster | anyway bbl |
| 19:01.41 | Ruudi | ah laptop...i need that new mac powerbook with 17" as well :) |
| 19:03.12 | *** join/#bzflag insect_power2 (~booble@pD9E50ADB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:03.14 | insect_power2 | lo |
| 19:03.45 | Ruudi | hi |
| 19:09.13 | Ruudi | ok cu |
| 19:09.35 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (timr@rikers.org) |
| 19:10.26 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 19:20.03 | sussudio | http://bzflag.dontexist.org/ |
| 19:20.11 | sussudio | yay. crontab works. |
| 19:22.07 | *** part/#bzflag [TeA] (~Nicholas@pD9E97B8D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:25.45 | bzgirl | sussudio from that webpage,"" bzgirl has quite a potty mouth. 0.9% words were foul language. "" |
| 19:26.15 | sussudio | tsk |
| 19:26.17 | bzgirl | what does that mean? i swear alot?! |
| 19:26.23 | sussudio | probably |
| 19:26.27 | bzgirl | i never do! |
| 19:26.37 | bzgirl | you rigged it :( |
| 19:26.41 | sussudio | did not |
| 19:27.26 | sussudio | you said bitchx |
| 19:27.36 | bzgirl | ah ok |
| 19:27.51 | bzgirl | i sohuld go back to xchat |
| 19:27.59 | sussudio | mkay |
| 19:29.35 | insect_power2 | grunch time |
| 19:31.04 | *** part/#bzflag bzgirl (~angelina@24.156.129.90) |
| 19:33.55 | *** join/#bzflag isfry (~Fry@65.168.86.30) |
| 19:39.37 | Chestal | hmm, is there any compierl which cannot do new int[a][2] ? |
| 19:39.46 | Chestal | bzfs has some strange typecast stuff to avoid this |
| 19:51.41 | TimRiker | should work on all the compilers I've used. |
| 19:51.53 | TimRiker | SGI it the most likely broken compiler. |
| 19:51.58 | TimRiker | er is.. |
| 19:52.33 | TimRiker | sussudio: I've been considering setting that up for ibot so it does all the channels he's on. |
| 19:52.58 | sussudio | apt-get install pisg |
| 19:54.44 | Chestal | TimRiker: I just noticed this strangeness when I was patchign bzfs to use a random number of builings in FFA games, similar to how it does for CTF games already |
| 19:54.47 | TimRiker | E: Couldn't find package pisg |
| 19:55.43 | sussudio | pisg is in testing and unstable |
| 19:55.54 | TimRiker | ibot's on a stable server. |
| 19:56.24 | sussudio | http://packages.debian.org/testing/net/pisg.html |
| 20:00.53 | sussudio | perl 5.6 is the only depend |
| 20:02.13 | Chestal | this 'fuzzy' UDP is causes by NAT usually? |
| 20:03.46 | sussudio | what? |
| 20:17.49 | TimRiker | Chestal: yes. the port the app picks can be different from the port the server sees cause of the NATting gateway in the middle. |
| 20:18.35 | TimRiker | typically a NATted port would be 32k+ or 60k there abouts. |
| 20:19.13 | TimRiker | Player Looking [3] has joined from 66.41.109.202:65415 on 11 |
| 20:19.13 | TimRiker | uread() fuzzy udp up for player 3 66.41.109.202:17200 actual port 65360 |
| 20:19.38 | TimRiker | note that the tcp port is up in the same range. |
| 20:27.27 | Chestal | ok, that's what I thought, jsut wanted to be sure I understood it correctly |
| 20:27.44 | Chestal | does fuzy udp work when there's more than one client from that IP? |
| 20:28.38 | Chestal | whatever, must be off for now,maybe later |
| 20:29.13 | *** join/#bzflag MrCooper (~daenzer@dclient80-218-112-24.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:30.21 | *** join/#bzflag calico (calico@bgm-66-67-1-87.stny.rr.com) |
| 20:30.29 | TimRiker | Chestal: as long as another does not join before the handshake is complete on the first one. |
| 20:31.02 | TimRiker | when we break the protocol, I'll just start the udp with a "hello, I'm player x" packet. much easier. |
| 21:11.49 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~jeffm@208.48.199.214) |
| 21:13.30 | Patlabor221 | sussudio are the logs from your cleint or a bot? |
| 21:15.29 | sussudio | bot |
| 21:15.41 | Patlabor221 | coo |
| 21:24.41 | *** join/#bzflag [dmp] (~somewhere@0x50c4919b.adsl-fixed.tele.dk) |
| 21:30.18 | Chestal | hi dmp |
| 21:35.21 | Patlabor221 | I wonder if Cap has the same problem. |
| 21:51.33 | [dmp] | hi Chestal |
| 21:54.38 | *** join/#bzflag scan[ibook] (~micah@ec237-43-dhcp.Colorado.EDU) |
| 21:55.19 | gonkulator | hi scan[ibook] |
| 21:57.08 | *** join/#bzflag shut (~shut@aden2-142-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 22:01.30 | Chestal | dmp: anything new on the ladder? |
| 22:07.42 | *** join/#bzflag Ruudi (Sacha@80-235-62-132-dsl.trt.estpak.ee) |
| 22:07.53 | gonkulator | ibot: seen bzdoug_ |
| 22:07.54 | | gonkulator: i haven't seen 'bzdoug_ ' |
| 22:07.58 | gonkulator | ibot: seen bzdoug_ |
| 22:07.58 | | bzdoug_ is currently on #bzflag (17h 18m 16s). Has said a total of 54 messages. Is idling for 5h 43m 32s |
| 22:08.18 | bzdoug_ | :) |
| 22:08.43 | Ruudi | hi |
| 22:08.57 | Ruudi | seen seen |
| 22:08.58 | Ruudi | hmm |
| 22:09.06 | Ruudi | ibot: seen ruudi |
| 22:09.06 | | ruudi is currently on #bzflag (1m 24s). Has said a total of 4 messages. Is idling for 0s |
| 22:09.12 | Ruudi | ibot: seen mandy |
| 22:09.12 | | mandy <~0cd7d48d@chat.ircnet.org> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 22d 14h 41m 55s ago, saying: 'hello hamster :)'. |
| 22:09.31 | [dmp] | Chestal: Not really. Just begun again. Needed to spend some time with my girl. She dosnt care much about ladders :) .. |
| 22:10.14 | Chestal | dmp: teach her to play bzflag :-) |
| 22:10.27 | Ruudi | hehe |
| 22:10.49 | Ruudi | there is 3 girls in bz i know :) |
| 22:12.17 | [dmp] | Chestal: well did. She only wants to battle me.. And well. She isnt really into gaming. So.. But could be fun.. Have tried to get my bothers to play as well, but their hardware is too slow (no 3d-card) |
| 22:12.51 | [dmp] | but would have been fun to have a MrDMP and MsDMP .-) |
| 22:13.42 | calico | hi dmp |
| 22:13.59 | calico | ~ducatictf |
| 22:14.24 | [dmp] | hi calico |
| 22:14.31 | calico | hi |
| 22:14.40 | calico | wheres tlz |
| 22:14.41 | [dmp] | do you wanna be my MsDMP? :-) |
| 22:14.42 | calico | :) |
| 22:14.52 | calico | lol |
| 22:14.59 | calico | what if im a male |
| 22:15.13 | calico | does the offer still stand |
| 22:15.14 | [dmp] | A dress and bra would do wonders :) |
| 22:15.21 | calico | rofl |
| 22:16.32 | calico | we need to find a match |
| 22:16.58 | [dmp] | what about those bananas guys? |
| 22:17.13 | calico | who |
| 22:17.39 | [dmp] | [BiPs]BaDiN wanted a match yesterday.. perhaps he is up for one. |
| 22:18.42 | calico | where is he |
| 22:21.12 | [dmp] | dunno |
| 22:21.30 | [dmp] | he was just buggin' us yesterday for a match |
| 22:26.54 | calico | can you change the size of the target square on the screen? |
| 22:27.27 | jraitala | hello |
| 22:27.33 | Chestal | calico: by chanign the sourc, yes |
| 22:27.52 | Chestal | calico: I'm thinking of adding an option to the meu (slider) |
| 22:28.05 | calico | ahh, ok |
| 22:28.28 | calico | changing the source sounds too complicated for me so i will deal with it :) |
| 22:30.10 | calico | has anyone seen big barrel around lately |
| 22:30.21 | sussudio | ~seen big_barrel |
| 22:30.22 | | big_barrel <Big@p50844EF4.dip.t-dialin.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 7d 3h 42m 16s ago, saying: 'chestal???'. |
| 22:30.38 | calico | wow long time ago |
| 22:30.51 | [dmp] | strange. |
| 22:31.24 | calico | his wife/girlfriend and child moved back to germany with him |
| 22:31.36 | calico | so hes probably not allowed to play anymore |
| 22:31.41 | calico | :P |
| 22:32.14 | Chestal | dmp: regarding the ladder: from looking at the look, I'd say it would be good to use floating point, at least one decimal digit, and probably divide the team rating by 4 or something similar |
| 22:36.14 | [dmp] | so still do what rembo wrote. sum the individual rating for both team, calc the diff divide it by for and add/sub to each player? |
| 22:37.12 | [dmp] | .. the teams from the ctf site, that is |
| 22:37.35 | Chestal | dmp: that's what you do now I suppose? Bu tI think it's still to sensitive to differences in team ratings |
| 22:38.10 | Chestal | therefore either normalize the team ratings by dividing or use a bigger constant instead of the 400 |
| 22:39.27 | [dmp] | i have no idea was is best. |
| 22:39.39 | Chestal | nether have I :-) |
| 22:39.51 | Chestal | its probably best to look at the log to see whether the values look plausible |
| 22:39.54 | [dmp] | but i guess, when i get more data it would be easier to judge what works best. |
| 22:40.18 | bzdoug_ | gonkulator: yes? |
| 22:40.24 | Chestal | but I think going for floatign point or at least one decimal digit is a good idea anyway |
| 22:40.28 | bzdoug_ | hmm, whats better? LVM or RAID? |
| 22:40.35 | Chestal | because the score changes are now in the range of 0-5 |
| 22:42.51 | bzdoug_ | captain_proton: you there? |
| 22:42.55 | bzdoug_ | scanlime: you there? |
| 22:43.07 | scanlime | no |
| 22:43.35 | bzdoug_ | hm |
| 22:43.41 | [dmp] | chestal: Agree.. I'll do it right away, and recalc it |
| 22:43.42 | bzdoug_ | know anything aout LVM? |
| 22:43.52 | bzdoug_ | whats better? LVM or RAID? |
| 22:44.34 | Chestal | I ave to go to bed, god night |
| 22:46.06 | [dmp] | nite, Chestal. and thanks for the help |
| 22:50.57 | *** join/#bzflag paul (~paul@hibernia.jakma.org) |
| 23:12.13 | *** join/#bzflag MortimeR (~MortimeR@62-37-205-131.dialup.uni2.es) |
| 23:23.58 | TimRiker | will pisg handle a log file with multiple channels? |
| 23:24.41 | sussudio | dunno, i have logs seperated |
| 23:24.59 | TimRiker | ugh |
| 23:30.50 | *** join/#bzflag jzaun (~jzaun@jzaun.static.telerama.com) |
| 23:35.29 | bzdoug_ | http://sigkill9.tripod.com/bzflag.html |
| 23:35.31 | bzdoug_ | whats this then? |
| 23:36.06 | bzdoug_ | TimRiker: thats the same thing, I have been looking at it for the past year or so |
| 23:39.53 | Patlabor221 | doug read before you comment |
| 23:40.08 | bzdoug_ | ? |
| 23:40.17 | Patlabor221 | I like susudios better, I'm on top |
| 23:40.26 | bzdoug_ | bah |
| 23:40.38 | bzdoug_ | you are 2nd on this list |
| 23:41.10 | sussudio | doug: that thing there hasnt been updated in MONTHS |
| 23:41.21 | Patlabor221 | look at the NEW ONE |
| 23:41.27 | Patlabor221 | what is the new URL again? |
| 23:41.37 | sussudio | bzflag.dontexist.org |
| 23:42.09 | Patlabor221 | how often does it update the quote? |
| 23:42.22 | sussudio | every hour |
| 23:42.26 | Patlabor221 | coo |
| 23:42.39 | Patlabor221 | LOL |
| 23:42.39 | Patlabor221 | shut always lets us know what he/she's doing: 23 actions! |
| 23:42.40 | Patlabor221 | For example, like this: |
| 23:42.40 | Patlabor221 | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:44.57 | Patlabor221 | some of the quotes are funny taken outa context |
| 23:44.58 | Patlabor221 | 5 Secret_Hamster 124 "so how can I join a non-existant team?" |
| 23:45.45 | Patlabor221 | the time is GMT? or your local? |
| 23:45.54 | sussudio | local |
| 23:46.08 | Patlabor221 | you +1 or +2? |
| 23:46.15 | sussudio | +1 |
| 23:46.46 | sussudio | ~piggy |
| 23:46.47 | | Piggy logs all you do... Look at bzflag.dontexist.org |
| 23:47.06 | Patlabor221 | logpig |
| 23:47.14 | Patlabor221 | better then a pig log |
| 23:47.21 | Piggy | oink |
| 23:47.41 | Patlabor221 | piggy: what up G? |
| 23:47.59 | Piggy | having a brew, watching tv |
| 23:48.18 | Patlabor221 | piggy: where is dokkie? |
| 23:48.33 | Piggy | who? |
| 23:48.47 | Patlabor221 | you have to msg him to make him answer? |
| 23:48.59 | sussudio | it's not a blootbot |
| 23:49.22 | Patlabor221 | well still it dosn't have any answers like, just "Shut your cake hole" |
| 23:49.39 | sussudio | there's no reply scripts loaded |
| 23:49.44 | Patlabor221 | ahh |
| 23:50.24 | *** join/#bzflag bzgirl (~angelina@24.156.129.90) |
| 23:51.42 | Patlabor221 | man I realy want to work on the missiles but they are making me do "real" work today. |
| 23:52.06 | [dmp] | hi bzgirl |
| 23:52.32 | bzgirl | hi |
| 23:57.29 | fiberchunks | ugh |
| 23:59.04 | sussudio | that new map on turkey blows |
| 23:59.42 | fiberchunks | fiberchunks just woke up from a HEAVY nap, and is now more tired than before (how _does_ that work) |
