| 00:00.01 | blast007 | 8.0, 8.1, something |
| 00:00.22 | linuxguy101 | 8.0 was good |
| 00:00.27 | linuxguy101 | and so was 8.1 |
| 00:00.39 | blast007 | yeah, but it wasn't |
| 00:00.52 | linuxguy101 | what was wrong with it |
| 00:00.52 | blast007 | also, RPMs suck |
| 00:00.57 | blast007 | so I avoid any distro that uses RPMs |
| 00:00.59 | linuxguy101 | blast007: lol |
| 00:01.15 | blast007 | had nothing but trouble |
| 00:01.27 | blast007 | I much preferred Slackware to Mandrake |
| 00:01.33 | linuxguy101 | i tried debian and gave up after the 3rd week of install |
| 00:01.35 | blast007 | and Slackware was not easy to use ;) |
| 00:01.47 | blast007 | dependency tracking? nope |
| 00:02.12 | blast007 | you install deps yourself |
| 00:02.27 | linuxguy101 | well i dont want to spend years getting a linux desktop to play flash and run some video on it |
| 00:02.33 | blast007 | and it was still better than Mandrake 8.whatever ;) |
| 00:02.45 | blast007 | linuxguy101: that's why you should use Ubuntu |
| 00:02.49 | blast007 | it does that easy |
| 00:03.09 | blast007 | want your nvidia drivers? it's a few clicks |
| 00:03.14 | linuxguy101 | blast007: ubuntu??? lmao.. not one that i have tested will do a dual kde and gnome interface |
| 00:03.26 | blast007 | why would you want that? |
| 00:03.35 | linuxguy101 | blast007: cause they are both good |
| 00:03.47 | linuxguy101 | blast007: gnome sucks by itself |
| 00:03.49 | blast007 | um, okay |
| 00:04.10 | linuxguy101 | dolphin blows anything gnome has out for it |
| 00:04.14 | linuxguy101 | sorry |
| 00:04.27 | linuxguy101 | i am a power user and i dont like to run a ugo |
| 00:04.48 | blast007 | so then why are you using mandriva? |
| 00:05.00 | blast007 | you should be using gentoo! |
| 00:05.01 | Cobra_Fast | is setting up a mumble server right now |
| 00:05.10 | linuxguy101 | blast007: simple everything works..... |
| 00:05.21 | blast007 | where have I heard that before |
| 00:05.25 | blast007 | glares at Apple |
| 00:05.38 | linuxguy101 | takes me 7 min to install.. 4 hours to download over 3 thousand programs |
| 00:05.54 | linuxguy101 | depending on connecton rates.. |
| 00:05.57 | linuxguy101 | install is easy.. |
| 00:06.08 | linuxguy101 | i never need to use the command line |
| 00:06.18 | blast007 | but I thought you were a power user |
| 00:06.28 | linuxguy101 | i am |
| 00:06.35 | blast007 | sure you are |
| 00:07.21 | linuxguy101 | so you are saying that command line is faster than gui on all applicatinos? |
| 00:07.29 | linuxguy101 | you are delusional |
| 00:07.41 | blast007 | no, delusional is in ##planetmofo |
| 00:07.44 | blast007 | I'm blast007 |
| 00:08.21 | linuxguy101 | lol |
| 00:08.25 | blast007 | right now, I'm not using a GUI to chat to you |
| 00:08.32 | linuxguy101 | i like gui and command line... |
| 00:08.33 | blast007 | irssi ftw |
| 00:08.44 | blast007 | I have no GUI on my server |
| 00:08.48 | linuxguy101 | blast007: how many rooms?? |
| 00:08.54 | blast007 | like 22 |
| 00:08.57 | linuxguy101 | blast007: how old a box.. |
| 00:09.04 | blast007 | 5 years maybe? |
| 00:09.09 | blast007 | it's a 3GHz Pentium D |
| 00:09.10 | linuxguy101 | no wonder |
| 00:09.16 | blast007 | dual-core |
| 00:09.25 | linuxguy101 | 256k ram.. lol |
| 00:09.34 | blast007 | 1GB, 10mbps network both ways |
| 00:09.40 | blast007 | (internet speed) |
| 00:10.10 | linuxguy101 | cool you can use the command line.. |
| 00:10.20 | blast007 | yup |
| 00:10.29 | linuxguy101 | i have 7 systems here and one only uses the command line |
| 00:10.42 | linuxguy101 | cause it is old as hell |
| 00:11.16 | blast007 | can't even run something like Xfce? |
| 00:11.17 | linuxguy101 | anyway if you are happy with what you have stay there |
| 00:12.01 | linuxguy101 | i will continue to test the top 20 linux distros to see what is the best for the masses |
| 00:13.15 | blast007 | you post the results up somewhere? |
| 00:13.24 | linuxguy101 | I will here soon |
| 00:13.37 | blast007 | 'here' being your website? |
| 00:13.39 | linuxguy101 | i also install linux on systems and sell them |
| 00:14.09 | linuxguy101 | mandriva is top.. |
| 00:14.13 | linuxguy101 | suse is #2 |
| 00:14.21 | linuxguy101 | red hat is 3 |
| 00:14.25 | linuxguy101 | ubuntu is 4 |
| 00:14.56 | blast007 | do you have a website for your results? |
| 00:15.11 | linuxguy101 | i do this with my own company |
| 00:15.12 | blast007 | cuz a top 4 list isn't really useful without any additional details |
| 00:15.16 | linuxguy101 | results are not published |
| 00:15.27 | linuxguy101 | not yet |
| 00:16.10 | linuxguy101 | but remember this all depends on the users who are working with the distros as to how easy or hard it is to use |
| 00:16.18 | linuxguy101 | and the coders |
| 00:16.31 | linuxguy101 | i dont want slackware to be easy to use |
| 00:16.38 | linuxguy101 | great one to learn from |
| 00:17.07 | linuxguy101 | they all have there place |
| 00:17.47 | linuxguy101 | pc linux is very good to |
| 00:17.58 | linuxguy101 | but not much support |
| 00:21.06 | linuxguy101 | any way i am rambling |
| 00:24.35 | Cobra_Fast | mumble: wtwrp.de:64738 |
| 00:26.11 | Cobra_Fast | blast007: would that auto-mumble also be able to connect people to a specific channel? |
| 00:28.14 | linuxguy101 | Cobra_Fast: i would use it now but i am watching twit |
| 00:28.24 | linuxguy101 | www.twit.tv |
| 00:34.54 | blast007 | Cobra_Fast: that would be all it would do |
| 00:35.11 | Cobra_Fast | blast007: would be very interesting to have such |
| 00:35.12 | blast007 | it would all be handled server-side |
| 00:35.20 | blast007 | assuming it's even possible |
| 00:35.31 | blast007 | I haven't got to the point of even being able to attempt it |
| 00:35.42 | Cobra_Fast | current game servers only announce their mumble servers in admsgs |
| 00:35.47 | blast007 | and I'm busy with other projects at the moment |
| 00:35.52 | blast007 | yeah |
| 00:36.00 | blast007 | the user would still have to manually connect to the mumble server |
| 00:36.07 | Cobra_Fast | right |
| 00:36.25 | blast007 | it would just move them to the right channel so only reds can hear the red chat, for instance |
| 00:36.32 | blast007 | no spies ;) |
| 00:36.36 | Cobra_Fast | :) |
| 00:36.52 | Cobra_Fast | i also doubt that bzflag people would even bother voice chat |
| 00:36.55 | blast007 | plus that way the names would have to match, so it's easier to administer |
| 00:36.59 | Cobra_Fast | but im gonna set it up for pandora |
| 00:45.58 | linuxguy101 | Cobra_Fast: maybe |
| 01:07.44 | blast007 | Cobra_Fast: I think if it was easy to set up, they would |
| 01:16.02 | linuxguy101 | blast007: did they put a easy help in the latest bzflag? |
| 01:16.12 | blast007 | no |
| 01:16.18 | blast007 | no tutorial |
| 01:16.33 | linuxguy101 | blast007: i get allot of people who use winblows, saying they cant figure it out. |
| 01:16.34 | blast007 | though it should actually be possible to do something |
| 01:16.50 | blast007 | since Lua is included |
| 01:16.57 | blast007 | (in both the server and the client) |
| 01:17.06 | linuxguy101 | blast007: the menu structure on the help and settings i think need mouse support |
| 01:17.09 | blast007 | and there are new map objects |
| 01:17.20 | blast007 | well, that, or turn off the mouse cursor |
| 01:17.32 | linuxguy101 | blast007: ah cool |
| 01:17.41 | blast007 | that is confusing in itself |
| 01:17.45 | blast007 | a mouse cursor that doesn't let you click on menu items |
| 01:17.50 | linuxguy101 | right |
| 01:18.09 | linuxguy101 | it just needs some tweaking around and streamlining |
| 01:18.21 | blast007 | or some forkin' |
| 01:18.28 | linuxguy101 | blast007: right.. |
| 01:18.46 | linuxguy101 | blast007: you want the game so that dummies can play it |
| 01:19.01 | linuxguy101 | wait maybe not.. lol |
| 01:19.35 | linuxguy101 | blast007: how about the flags how many are there in the new version |
| 01:19.49 | blast007 | there are two new ones |
| 01:19.54 | blast007 | Cloaked Shot, and Low Gravity |
| 01:24.52 | linuxguy101 | blast007: how about a multiple flag flag |
| 01:25.06 | Cobra_Fast | linuxguy101: no. |
| 01:25.13 | linuxguy101 | one flag and you can carry say 2 more.. |
| 01:25.13 | Cobra_Fast | no |
| 01:25.17 | Cobra_Fast | definly no |
| 01:25.29 | linuxguy101 | you ever tested it in game play? |
| 01:25.33 | blast007 | linuxguy101: not in bzflag, but in a fork, sure |
| 01:25.42 | Cobra_Fast | its too complex for the average player |
| 01:25.54 | Cobra_Fast | how would you drop either of the three flags |
| 01:26.09 | Cobra_Fast | there are many issues about this |
| 01:26.14 | linuxguy101 | Cobra_Fast: easy.. middle mouse and you drop what you carry |
| 01:26.23 | blast007 | it would need different controls |
| 01:26.25 | Cobra_Fast | so your entire flag set is gone |
| 01:26.27 | linuxguy101 | but you half to hunt to find the multiple flag again |
| 01:26.54 | linuxguy101 | i would love to test it in game play |
| 01:26.57 | blast007 | one idea would be to have flag categories |
| 01:27.11 | blast007 | like, ones that affect your shots, and ones that affect your tank |
| 01:27.17 | blast007 | and you could have one of each |
| 01:27.18 | Cobra_Fast | The Super Flag Collectors Set - In Stores Now |
| 01:27.20 | Cobra_Fast | lol |
| 01:27.31 | blast007 | again, wouldn't be in BZFlag, but a fork or a different game - sure |
| 01:27.37 | linuxguy101 | blast007: then you go to a total 2 carry flag system |
| 01:27.54 | linuxguy101 | how about one flag that will allow the pick up of 2 more flags with a timer on it |
| 01:27.57 | Cobra_Fast | that would also create cruel combinations like guided laser or shockwave missile |
| 01:28.01 | linuxguy101 | or shot counter |
| 01:28.21 | linuxguy101 | oh i know it would be unfair |
| 01:28.44 | linuxguy101 | however in a fox hunt it would be pretty good |
| 01:28.55 | linuxguy101 | if only used on the fox |
| 01:29.27 | linuxguy101 | how about allowing the server have the options of multiple flags? |
| 01:29.39 | linuxguy101 | just a thought.. |
| 01:29.54 | DTRemenak | I had a branch at one point where you could collect flags and switch between them on the fly; that worked pretty well. |
| 01:30.13 | linuxguy101 | DTRemenak: that sounds interesting. |
| 01:30.15 | Cobra_Fast | and have the server have an option to allow any rejected flag idea and enhancement suggestion ... sure :D |
| 01:30.39 | linuxguy101 | that would be cool |
| 01:30.48 | DTRemenak | gave rise to some interesting mechanics where you'd carry, for instance, SH and L, and toggle between them before and after firing |
| 01:31.33 | linuxguy101 | i want to see bzflag moved into a modern rival of online games that are as fun to play as they are to design |
| 01:31.47 | linuxguy101 | oh ya, i have never done anything on the server side of bzflag |
| 01:32.01 | linuxguy101 | so i have no idea what kind of hell that may be.. |
| 01:32.41 | linuxguy101 | how easy is it to design a playing field? |
| 01:33.22 | Cobra_Fast | take a plane and youre done |
| 01:33.33 | Cobra_Fast | doesnt make it interesting to play tho |
| 01:35.33 | linuxguy101 | Cobra_Fast: missle war is the best designed zone for game play |
| 01:35.47 | linuxguy101 | that i have seen so far |
| 01:35.51 | Cobra_Fast | it's not. its got serious spawn camping issues |
| 01:36.05 | blast007 | linuxguy101: you don't get out much, do you? ;) |
| 01:36.13 | linuxguy101 | Cobra_Fast: spawn camping?? |
| 01:36.37 | linuxguy101 | blast007: i am an old timer on bzflag.. |
| 01:36.37 | Cobra_Fast | people waiting for you to popp up in your base so they can shoot you away immediately |
| 01:36.51 | linuxguy101 | Cobra_Fast: ya that is what is fun |
| 01:36.57 | Cobra_Fast | hell its not |
| 01:37.19 | linuxguy101 | it keeps the game fast paced |
| 01:37.20 | Cobra_Fast | a 6 year old might find it funny to do that |
| 01:37.39 | Cobra_Fast | but fairness went off completely |
| 01:37.47 | linuxguy101 | well it is better than a few pylons on a flat playing field |
| 01:38.23 | Cobra_Fast | thats a wild claim, in my experience a few pylons with random spawns can be much more fun |
| 01:38.59 | linuxguy101 | ok we both have our own ideas on good zones.. |
| 01:39.10 | Cobra_Fast | right |
| 01:39.32 | linuxguy101 | on the latest ver have you made it more compatible with older systems?? |
| 01:39.34 | Cobra_Fast | you like exploding tanks - i like fair battles |
| 01:39.50 | blast007 | linuxguy101: no |
| 01:39.54 | blast007 | if anything, less |
| 01:40.12 | linuxguy101 | blast007: any way to make it more compatible on more systems? |
| 01:40.23 | blast007 | for a while we were requiring OpenGL 1.2 or 1.3 |
| 01:40.24 | blast007 | can't remember which |
| 01:40.39 | blast007 | which excluded, for instance, software OpenGL on Windows |
| 01:40.46 | blast007 | at least XP and below |
| 01:40.47 | linuxguy101 | oh ya... |
| 01:41.17 | linuxguy101 | well i would love to see bzflag like half the size it is now and 70 % faster |
| 01:41.28 | blast007 | the requirement was removed though |
| 01:41.30 | linuxguy101 | with high res graphics |
| 01:41.32 | blast007 | think it's back down to 1.1 |
| 01:41.44 | blast007 | 70% faster? |
| 01:41.50 | blast007 | and why half the size? |
| 01:41.57 | blast007 | you do realize our game is tiny, right? |
| 01:41.59 | linuxguy101 | blast007: ya.. it can happen |
| 01:42.09 | linuxguy101 | blast007: yes.. |
| 01:42.14 | blast007 | and I can get like 800FPS on my system |
| 01:42.22 | linuxguy101 | blast007: think of cell phones.. |
| 01:42.23 | blast007 | why would I want it to be 70% faster? |
| 01:42.28 | blast007 | okay, what about them? |
| 01:42.34 | blast007 | they're not gonna be able to run bzflag anyway |
| 01:42.42 | linuxguy101 | maybe some day bzflag will be playible on it. |
| 01:42.43 | Cobra_Fast | blast007: which forum section would i take if i was gonna ask if people were interested in voice communication whilst playing? |
| 01:42.52 | blast007 | Cobra_Fast: no idea |
| 01:42.59 | Cobra_Fast | blast007: alright ill pick one randomly |
| 01:43.02 | blast007 | k |
| 01:43.19 | blast007 | pick one that it fits in best with |
| 01:43.34 | Cobra_Fast | General Discussion seems ok to me |
| 01:43.57 | linuxguy101 | now bzflag originally started out on bbs's way back in the beginning correct? |
| 01:44.09 | blast007 | what? |
| 01:44.13 | me1 | what |
| 01:44.21 | Cobra_Fast | what |
| 01:44.29 | linuxguy101 | when bzflag was first coded it was commerical |
| 01:44.39 | linuxguy101 | (sp) |
| 01:44.52 | blast007 | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Project_History |
| 01:46.45 | linuxguy101 | not the game i was thinking of |
| 01:47.20 | linuxguy101 | there was several games that came out for the bbs's right before the internet started |
| 01:47.30 | linuxguy101 | and the web killed it.. |
| 01:47.39 | linuxguy101 | but they went open source.. |
| 01:47.56 | linuxguy101 | i thought bzflag was one of them |
| 01:48.18 | Cobra_Fast | there we go: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16588 |
| 01:49.04 | Cobra_Fast | linuxguy101: i guess youre thinking of "Battle Zone" and "Battle Zone II", theyve got nothing to do with BZFlag |
| 01:49.33 | blast007 | well, not "nothing" |
| 01:49.44 | linuxguy101 | Cobra_Fast: no it was a space type game.. i was avalible for pcboard in a door program |
| 01:49.52 | blast007 | both BZFlag and the game 'bz' are based on the idea of Battle Zone |
| 01:50.12 | linuxguy101 | i never played it cause the sites wated 20 a hour for usage on a 8 line dialup modem |
| 01:50.22 | linuxguy101 | wanted |
| 01:50.40 | linuxguy101 | this was in 1994 |
| 01:50.55 | Cobra_Fast | so a Battle Zone is a limited field created for battle? or what? |
| 01:51.47 | linuxguy101 | battle zone was an arcade game single person player against the computer ai tank and a few sausers |
| 01:53.01 | linuxguy101 | hey you could code in airplanes and missles into the game.. |
| 01:53.03 | linuxguy101 | lol |
| 01:53.20 | linuxguy101 | just kidding |
| 01:54.47 | Cobra_Fast | what about coding a linuxguy101 into the game which does the feature you want just from suggesting? :D |
| 01:55.34 | linuxguy101 | Cobra_Fast: ya and make it bug free creation software! |
| 01:55.36 | linuxguy101 | lol |
| 01:55.49 | linuxguy101 | if only the world was perfect |
| 01:56.02 | Cobra_Fast | true |
| 01:57.02 | linuxguy101 | how does the server keep track of all the connection speeds and lag time and make it work the way it does |
| 01:57.34 | linuxguy101 | it is amazing to me |
| 01:57.44 | Cobra_Fast | lagping packets and such |
| 01:57.48 | blast007 | linuxguy101: it doesn't |
| 01:58.01 | blast007 | bzflag doesn't assume any specific connection speed |
| 01:58.09 | blast007 | it just sends the data it wants to |
| 01:58.21 | blast007 | if your connection gets flooded, it doesn't shed a tear ;) |
| 01:58.25 | linuxguy101 | blast007: so what if i log in and i have a really slow connection |
| 01:58.33 | linuxguy101 | oh ok i see |
| 01:58.36 | blast007 | it will laugh |
| 01:58.55 | linuxguy101 | what causes jitter? |
| 01:58.59 | linuxguy101 | packet loss? |
| 01:59.02 | blast007 | no |
| 01:59.04 | Cobra_Fast | no |
| 01:59.10 | blast007 | jitter is variation in your lag |
| 01:59.16 | Cobra_Fast | -> http://my.bzflag.org/w/Jitter |
| 01:59.17 | blast007 | which can be caused by lots of things |
| 01:59.51 | blast007 | most commonly it's caused by low FPS, spikes in CPU usage by other software, wifi, downloads, and bad ISPs |
| 02:00.13 | linuxguy101 | ah ok |
| 02:00.48 | linuxguy101 | so during the game play the server just processes the vector points of data as to who is where in the game? |
| 02:01.47 | linuxguy101 | let me add on to that who and what objects are where in the game |
| 02:02.17 | blast007 | the server does have some idea of objects, yes |
| 02:02.24 | blast007 | since it uses that data for spawning players |
| 02:02.37 | blast007 | and it has a general idea of where someone is right *now* |
| 02:02.46 | blast007 | (or where they last were) |
| 02:03.25 | linuxguy101 | blast007: how is the source code, is it all commented out as to what line does what? |
| 02:03.34 | blast007 | hahahaha |
| 02:03.35 | blast007 | no |
| 02:03.47 | linuxguy101 | blast007: umm why not? |
| 02:03.54 | blast007 | because people didn't do it |
| 02:04.26 | linuxguy101 | blast007: doesnt that cut development time sorting through code you dont know what is what? |
| 02:06.26 | blast007 | no |
| 02:06.33 | blast007 | that increases development time ;) |
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