| 00:55.44 | *** join/#byumug drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 00:55.48 | *** mode/#byumug [+o drewbono] by ChanServ |
| 01:18.53 | *** join/#byumug drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 01:19.02 | *** mode/#byumug [+o drewbono] by ChanServ |
| 03:48.31 | *** join/#byumug cmkilger (~cmkilger@c-24-10-177-24.client.comcast.net) |
| 05:08.11 | *** join/#byumug drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 05:08.14 | *** mode/#byumug [+o drewbono] by ChanServ |
| 05:09.06 | drewbono | macnewbold: Have you seen wps? |
| 05:09.09 | drewbono | ~wps |
| 05:09.10 | jbot | well, wps is Mr. Wedgy Pants |
| 05:09.19 | drewbono | Darn... |
| 05:09.26 | drewbono | How do you see the last time he was online? |
| 05:09.29 | drewbono | |wps |
| 05:10.05 | drewbono | jbot, where is wps? |
| 05:10.07 | jbot | well, wps is Mr. Wedgy Pants |
| 05:10.14 | drewbono | jbot, when did you see wps? |
| 05:10.23 | drewbono | jbot, is wps online? |
| 05:13.24 | *** join/#byumug wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 05:13.27 | *** mode/#byumug [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 07:09.06 | *** join/#byumug drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 07:09.16 | *** mode/#byumug [+o drewbono] by ChanServ |
| 08:51.50 | *** join/#byumug guest_2817 (~BYUMUG@fwhide.guj.de) |
| 08:52.11 | *** join/#byumug guest_2817 (~BYUMUG@fwhide.guj.de) |
| 08:52.21 | drewbono | Hello. |
| 08:52.23 | drewbono | What up guest? |
| 08:52.40 | *** part/#byumug guest_2817 (~BYUMUG@fwhide.guj.de) |
| 14:27.30 | *** join/#byumug guest_1467 (~BYUMUG@ip231.69.78.64.susc.suscom.net) |
| 14:27.55 | guest_1467 | Hey |
| 14:27.59 | guest_1467 | I have a question |
| 14:52.14 | *** join/#byumug feutetejsd (~ned@charon.thna.net) |
| 15:33.07 | *** join/#byumug wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 15:33.17 | *** mode/#byumug [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 16:16.01 | feutetejsd | anyone here a whiz with iDVD? |
| 16:16.51 | wps | I have never used it. Sorry. |
| 16:16.56 | feutetejsd | otay |
| 16:47.25 | *** join/#byumug drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 16:47.27 | *** mode/#byumug [+o drewbono] by ChanServ |
| 16:49.06 | drewbono | Hola. |
| 16:49.14 | feutetejsd | hey |
| 16:49.26 | drewbono | Computer still livin' large, feutetejsd? |
| 16:49.28 | drewbono | :-) |
| 16:49.39 | feutetejsd | happy as a clam |
| 16:49.42 | feutetejsd | *whew* |
| 16:50.10 | drewbono | I finally ended up wiping my hard drive last night and starting over. |
| 16:50.34 | drewbono | Remember that lockup problem I was having, where my system wouldn't respond? |
| 16:50.40 | drewbono | I was getting worse and worse. |
| 16:50.43 | drewbono | *It |
| 16:51.25 | feutetejsd | that's no good |
| 16:51.33 | drewbono | Yeah, it's a pain. |
| 16:51.41 | drewbono | But it's always nice to start fresh. |
| 16:51.45 | drewbono | and "dejunk" |
| 16:51.49 | feutetejsd | in a way, yes |
| 16:54.47 | drewbono | Yeah, in a sick, twisted, I-won't-have-my-system-back-to-normal-for-days way. :-) |
| 16:55.22 | wps | so you finally wiped your system, eh drewbono? |
| 16:55.23 | feutetejsd | yeah, that |
| 17:04.53 | drewbono | Yeah, it's new...like a little baby's bottom. |
| 17:14.11 | macnewbold | hmmm... mentioning wiping and baby's bottoms within a phrases of each other brings un-fun images to mind... |
| 17:14.38 | macnewbold | drewbono: great work with the sendmail, btw - what did you do to beat it into submission? |
| 17:15.20 | drewbono | Trying to remember for the first part... |
| 17:16.00 | drewbono | We messed around with it for a while, and I added something to allow certain IP addresses to connect, and had wade test it. |
| 17:16.20 | drewbono | He was trying to authenticate, which I didn't know, so as soon as he turned that if it worked. |
| 17:16.34 | drewbono | Then to get authentication to work, all I had to do was uncomment these lines: |
| 17:16.59 | drewbono | TRUST_AUTH_MECH(`EXTERNAL DIGEST-MD5 CRAM-MD5 LOGIN PLAIN')dnl |
| 17:16.59 | drewbono | define(`confAUTH_MECHANISMS', `EXTERNAL GSSAPI DIGEST-MD5 CRAM-MD5 LOGIN PLAIN')dnl |
| 17:17.21 | drewbono | in the sendmail.mc file, recompile the .cf, restart sendmail, and then start saslauthd and it worked. |
| 17:17.47 | drewbono | So you did most of the work. :-) |
| 17:19.26 | wps | drewbono: so was just "make" in "/etc/mail/" sufficient to redo all of the files? |
| 17:19.34 | drewbono | It was. |
| 17:19.38 | drewbono | That's a nice trick. |
| 17:19.41 | drewbono | I never knew that one. |
| 17:19.48 | drewbono | I've always had to do: |
| 17:20.03 | wps | so, do I still need my IP in "/etc/mail/access" ? |
| 17:20.08 | drewbono | makemap hash virtusertable.db < virtusertable.db for each file |
| 17:20.24 | drewbono | and then the m4 command as well to create the .cf file. |
| 17:29.25 | macnewbold | yeah, makefiles in /etc/mail are sweet |
| 17:29.35 | macnewbold | 'make all restart' is magical |
| 17:30.00 | wps | drewbono: do I still need my IP in /etc/mail/access ? |
| 17:30.16 | macnewbold | if auth is working right, no :) |
| 17:30.21 | macnewbold | and you can use it from anywhere |
| 18:18.07 | feutetejsd | so, have any of you heard of/used greylisting as a means to stop spam? |
| 18:21.49 | macnewbold | yes, I believe so, feutetejsd, but can you be more specific about what type of greylisting you mean? I use spamassassin, among other things, for example. |
| 18:23.34 | feutetejsd | well, greylisting by itself is a means where your receiveing MTA will reject incoming mail with a 4.x.x error, and if the sending MTA retries after a user-specified time interval, your receiveing MTA will then accept the mail |
| 18:24.02 | macnewbold | that's odd |
| 18:24.05 | macnewbold | never done that |
| 18:24.06 | feutetejsd | it keeps previous attempts in a database of originating IP, MAIL FROM and RCPT TOO |
| 18:24.08 | macnewbold | sounds weird |
| 18:24.09 | feutetejsd | it rules |
| 18:24.32 | feutetejsd | lots of spam comes from either zombie machines or spam generators that don't have retry algorithms |
| 18:25.15 | feutetejsd | I'm using it on my home mailserver and in the last 5 days have had 325 fewer emails arrive successfully in my wife's mailbox than I would without it |
| 18:25.37 | feutetejsd | legitimate mail usually comes from legitimate MTAs that will retry |
| 18:26.05 | feutetejsd | oh, and future messages from known senders will be allowed, because their previous attempts are stored in a DB |
| 18:27.46 | feutetejsd | it works great |
| 18:28.03 | feutetejsd | one of my co-workers saw an 80% reduction in spam in his mailbox |
| 18:28.59 | macnewbold | so how hard is it to set up? (i.e. with sendmail?) |
| 18:30.16 | feutetejsd | my co-worker uses sendmail, and he said it took about 30 minutes, once milters were already working properly |
| 18:30.31 | feutetejsd | I use postfix, and it's even faster---about 8 lines in the config file, and a perl script |
| 18:30.39 | macnewbold | I've used milters before, and they worked |
| 18:30.43 | macnewbold | at least okay |
| 18:30.50 | feutetejsd | shouldn't be too tough in your situation, I would think |
| 18:30.57 | macnewbold | how soon will a retry happen if it blocks it? |
| 18:31.00 | feutetejsd | although I've never endeavored to try on sendmail |
| 18:31.06 | macnewbold | we don't want to delay mail too long |
| 18:31.16 | macnewbold | and what messages does it do this trick on? |
| 18:31.42 | feutetejsd | depends on the sender's MTA. I've seen some that retry after 10 minutes, and some after an hour. but remember that once a sender is in the database and has waited long enough, future mail will be accepted with no delay |
| 18:31.48 | feutetejsd | so it's only the first one that gets delayed |
| 18:32.38 | feutetejsd | it does it on all incoming messages unless (at least in the case of postfix), it's coming from a truested sender |
| 18:32.41 | feutetejsd | er...trusted |
| 18:33.17 | feutetejsd | so, I have a list of trusted machiines, including all of my machines at home, and no mail gets rejected from them, but everything from all other hosts gets temporarily rejected |
| 18:34.14 | macnewbold | first message from a particular user? |
| 18:34.28 | macnewbold | or combo of IP, From, and To? |
| 18:34.36 | feutetejsd | yeah, the DB holds sender's IP, time of first attempt, from, and to |
| 18:34.58 | feutetejsd | so, future messages from the same host, to same user, but from different user will be rejected again |
| 18:35.47 | macnewbold | what about same host, from same user, to different user? |
| 18:36.00 | feutetejsd | will be delayed |
| 18:37.05 | macnewbold | hm |
| 18:37.09 | macnewbold | I guess that's okay once |
| 18:37.39 | feutetejsd | I've noticed it's not too much of a bother, and the benefits greatly outweigh the delay on the first mail from a particular source |
| 18:39.05 | macnewbold | have you seen many false positive problems? |
| 18:39.43 | feutetejsd | no...and really, the only way to get a false positive is if someone legitimate is using an MTA that doesn't follow the RFC guidelines in its retries |
| 18:40.00 | feutetejsd | I can't think of a single false positive I've seen in the week I've been using it |
| 18:42.54 | feutetejsd | I use it in conjunction with spamassassin, and can think of only 1 or 2 emails that have made it through greylisting and weren't caught by spamassassin....which is much better than my previous results with spamassassin alone |
| 18:47.01 | drewbono | feutetejsd: That rules! |
| 18:47.08 | feutetejsd | I love it |
| 18:47.16 | drewbono | I've never heard of that. |
| 18:47.26 | drewbono | I've heard of black listing and white listing... |
| 18:47.30 | drewbono | That's a genius idea though. |
| 18:47.41 | feutetejsd | postfix has had it for quite some time, but I guess it's just now starting to catch on |
| 18:47.43 | drewbono | It's totally true as well--real mail will try again. |
| 18:47.58 | feutetejsd | yup...that's what my experience with it has shown |
| 18:48.29 | drewbono | So it's built in to sendmail and postfix? |
| 18:48.33 | drewbono | Or it's an add-on package? |
| 18:48.44 | feutetejsd | add-on, but it's been available from postfix for a long time |
| 18:48.53 | feutetejsd | sendmail requires milters to make it go |
| 18:49.12 | feutetejsd | but in the case of postfix, it's a perl script and a few lines of config changes |
| 18:49.32 | drewbono | So does it have a name? |
| 18:49.51 | feutetejsd | greylisting :) |
| 18:49.55 | drewbono | By the way, I hate mail servers. |
| 18:50.02 | drewbono | They're such a pain to configure. |
| 18:50.23 | feutetejsd | I'm impressed at how simple postfix turned out to be-- |
| 18:50.28 | drewbono | so there isn't a "package" for it, there's more of a method...? |
| 18:50.35 | feutetejsd | yeah, a method |
| 18:50.59 | feutetejsd | i think greylisting.org has some tutorials as well as links to download for your config |
| 18:51.17 | drewbono | Cool. |
| 18:51.23 | drewbono | Just found that with google. |
| 18:51.31 | feutetejsd | it's good stuff |
| 18:51.49 | feutetejsd | and they're not even paying me to say that! |
| 18:52.20 | drewbono | :-) |
| 18:52.22 | drewbono | Riiiiiight... |
| 18:52.39 | feutetejsd | I'm just so happy to be getting less spam *sniff* |
| 18:52.53 | drewbono | lol |
| 18:53.19 | drewbono | "And the award for the most dramatic scene in an IRC channel goes to..." |
| 18:53.52 | feutetejsd | (please let it be me) |
| 18:53.59 | drewbono | feutetejsd!!! |
| 18:54.03 | feutetejsd | YAY!!!!!! |
| 18:54.12 | drewbono | speech! speech! |
| 18:54.48 | feutetejsd | I just don't know what to say |
| 18:55.12 | drewbono | K... |
| 18:55.21 | drewbono | I'm taking suggestions for a cool open-source project now. |
| 18:55.46 | feutetejsd | thinking.... |
| 18:57.09 | feutetejsd | hmmm....I can't even come up with a dumb open-source project right now |
| 18:57.23 | feutetejsd | sorry man |
| 18:57.36 | *** join/#byumug guest_0386 (~BYUMUG@modemcable016.58-80-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 18:57.46 | feutetejsd | hi guest! |
| 18:57.49 | drewbono | Wow...! |
| 18:57.51 | drewbono | a guest! |
| 18:57.54 | drewbono | What up, guest? |
| 19:01.12 | guest_0386 | hi |
| 19:02.45 | *** join/#byumug guest_0386 (~BYUMUG@modemcable016.58-80-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 19:02.49 | feutetejsd | how's it going? |
| 19:02.56 | guest_0386 | good |
| 19:03.06 | guest_0386 | ey can you connect to another server with this app? |
| 19:03.27 | feutetejsd | with the web-based client? |
| 19:04.08 | guest_0386 | ya |
| 19:04.12 | guest_0386 | i foudn one that you could |
| 19:04.17 | guest_0386 | but forget to bookmark |
| 19:04.32 | feutetejsd | I don't konw....maybe wps or drewbono know? |
| 19:04.43 | guest_0386 | hmm but it dosent look like u can |
| 19:04.53 | guest_0386 | if anyone know such app please let me know :D |
| 19:05.00 | wps | can you connect what with what? |
| 19:05.18 | guest_0386 | i want to conect on an irc server with a web-based client |
| 19:05.45 | wps | you want to connect to an IRC server with a web-based client? |
| 19:05.55 | wps | isn't that what the web IRC client on mac.byu.edu is doing? |
| 19:06.35 | guest_0386 | ya but i want to specify a server |
| 19:06.36 | feutetejsd | but I think guest wants to connect to an arbitrary IRC server, right, guest_0386? |
| 19:06.40 | feutetejsd | yeah, that one |
| 19:06.40 | guest_0386 | ya |
| 19:06.42 | guest_0386 | i need to connect to.. |
| 19:07.59 | wps | you mean he wants the users using the client to be able to specify which server they want to connect to? instead of just having one that is the default? |
| 19:08.44 | guest_0386 | ya |
| 19:08.45 | guest_0386 | exactly |
| 19:09.40 | wps | hmm... seems like it would be fairly simple to specify that dynamically using PHP on the app on our website |
| 19:11.38 | drewbono | Guest... |
| 19:11.42 | guest_0386 | that would b nice this char seem nice |
| 19:11.56 | drewbono | I looked into such a thing when I implemented this. |
| 19:12.31 | drewbono | In order to get this to work with our channel, I had to sign the code (which is why you have to accept the applet when joining via the web). |
| 19:12.55 | drewbono | There were others out there that let you connect to any channel you wanted, but they were much uglier. :-) |
| 19:12.55 | wps | ah, yes... forgot about the applet junk |
| 19:13.09 | drewbono | I think this could be modified to allow for other channels as well... |
| 19:13.20 | drewbono | it's been a while though, and my memory stinks. |
| 19:13.22 | drewbono | :-) |
| 19:13.51 | drewbono | Oops... |
| 19:13.55 | drewbono | Just read the above part again. |
| 19:14.02 | guest_0386 | hehe |
| 19:14.02 | drewbono | You want to connect to a different server, not channel right? |
| 19:14.07 | guest_0386 | ya |
| 19:14.08 | guest_0386 | server |
| 19:14.25 | guest_0386 | irc.d2botnet.com that is what i need to conect to |
| 19:14.29 | drewbono | You can use this web applet, modify it to connect to wherever you want, re-sign it, and you'd be golden. |
| 19:14.48 | drewbono | But it's much easier to use an IRC application |
| 19:14.54 | guest_0386 | ya but |
| 19:14.56 | guest_0386 | this is not my comp |
| 19:15.03 | guest_0386 | and owned do not want such progs |
| 19:15.07 | guest_0386 | owner* |
| 19:15.14 | drewbono | If you were on a mac, they'd never know. ;-) |
| 19:15.20 | guest_0386 | hehe |
| 19:15.24 | guest_0386 | i wish i had amac |
| 19:15.25 | guest_0386 | lol |
| 19:15.36 | drewbono | You could just trash it when you were done--no .dll files or registry entries ratting you out. |
| 19:16.09 | guest_0386 | how do i modify the applet? |
| 19:16.27 | drewbono | Do you have your own webserver to run it on? |
| 19:17.00 | guest_0386 | hmm i dont think im not really good with web things |
| 19:18.28 | drewbono | You'd have to have somewhere to run it. |
| 19:19.12 | guest_0386 | oh u mean i need to modify the aplet code and run it from somewhere? |
| 19:21.47 | wps | yes, it will need to be hosted on a web server somewhere |
| 19:23.01 | guest_0386 | hmm i think finding one taht support server change might be easier |
| 19:25.23 | drewbono | Sorry we couldn't help more, guest. |
| 19:25.31 | drewbono | Good luck with your search. |
| 19:25.45 | drewbono | If you change your mind and want to know how to modify this, just come back. |
| 19:25.59 | drewbono | I know I wrote down the instructions somewhere in case I had to do it again. |
| 19:26.30 | drewbono | Again, you _may_ be able to modify this one to allow it to connect to many servers. |
| 19:28.27 | guest_0386 | thanks :P |