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| 02:33.03 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD || http://brlcad.org || logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || Congrats to all GCI 2014 winners Peter & Marc! || Congratulations to our 12 GSoC students! || Don't ask if someone is here, just ask your questions and wait for a response. ;-) |
| 02:55.21 | sofat | brlcad, i want to talk with you are you free? |
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| 13:48.57 | starseek1r | brlcad: I know, but misc/tools is deliberately independent of BRL-CAD's 'main' build, like src/other |
| 13:49.32 | starseek1r | brlcad: I need to get it off of libbu - once I do it'll go back in misc/tools |
| 13:56.50 | ``Erik | nifty, vim 7.4 does interesting things if you set both number and relativenumber |
| 13:57.04 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 65013 (brlcad/trunk/CHANGES brlcad/trunk/include/bn/vlist.h and 24 others): Move some of the vlist functions in librt into libbn. |
| 14:04.45 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 65014 brlcad/trunk/src/libged/gdiff.c: Enable test drawing of red/white/blue visual output. Should probably turn this into an example of how to do minimalist drawing of display manager lines... |
| 14:09.41 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 65015 brlcad/trunk/src/libged/gdiff.c: fix comments |
| 14:16.54 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 65016 brlcad/trunk/src/libged/gdiff.c: Use a local vlist instead of relying on the RTG global. |
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| 14:48.12 | sofat_ | brlcad, today are you free ? i need guidance from you . |
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| 15:03.55 | ``Erik | sofat_: maybe say what you need help with. Then if brlcad hops on when you're not at the keyboard, he can answer. (or someone else with the answers might offer to help) |
| 15:04.01 | ``Erik | !notify ask |
| 15:04.02 | Notify | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. |
| 15:19.15 | *** join/#brlcad sofat (~androirc@202.164.45.204) |
| 15:29.25 | brlcad | sofat: hi! |
| 15:29.44 | sofat | Hello |
| 15:29.52 | sofat | I waiting for you |
| 15:30.11 | brlcad | sofat: great, so we have a little bit of time sync'd finally :) |
| 15:30.27 | brlcad | timezones can be a bitch |
| 15:30.49 | sofat | I want some discussion on docbook importer |
| 15:30.52 | brlcad | sofat: so where are we at with your plan? |
| 15:30.57 | brlcad | sure |
| 15:31.35 | brlcad | the last we talked on the mailing list, I detailed a need to understand our options |
| 15:31.46 | brlcad | and you responded by chasing down an option .. :) |
| 15:32.06 | sofat | I am try to article but it not support i am checked the code of this plugin and found this only work with |
| 15:32.07 | sofat | Books |
| 15:32.07 | sofat | Structure |
| 15:32.36 | sofat | Means ? Please use simple english |
| 15:32.53 | brlcad | I will try to simplify |
| 15:33.21 | brlcad | I think there is a misunderstanding about what is needed "next" |
| 15:33.32 | sofat | Yes yes |
| 15:33.48 | brlcad | it's great that you re-checked the plugin (and got it to work with books) |
| 15:34.02 | brlcad | but the next step is not then to fix it |
| 15:34.14 | brlcad | the next step is to understand what our options are |
| 15:34.22 | brlcad | that was the A B C D E F e-mail I sent |
| 15:34.45 | brlcad | we need to document our choices, and evaluate them |
| 15:35.04 | brlcad | so for example |
| 15:36.03 | brlcad | one option (call it option #1) is to use confluence, and that can be described in those ABCDEF terms |
| 15:36.40 | brlcad | another option #2 is to develop something custom for mediawiki, which should also be described in ABCDEF terms |
| 15:36.43 | sofat | Yes |
| 15:37.40 | brlcad | another option #3 might be something custom with wordpress |
| 15:37.56 | brlcad | we've talked about 5-6 different options |
| 15:38.46 | sofat | If i go with 1 option then we need make the changes in plugin |
| 15:39.25 | brlcad | I don't have a good perspective on what our options are yet |
| 15:39.40 | brlcad | which means we can't yet decide which option is worth working on |
| 15:40.11 | brlcad | that's fine if option 1 requires changes to the plugin .. you write that down and move on to describing option #2 .. then #3 |
| 15:40.19 | brlcad | and so on |
| 15:40.49 | brlcad | and when I say describe them, I literally just mean the one-sentence ABCDEF summary like the example I provided |
| 15:41.20 | brlcad | with that information, I think we'll have a better idea for which path to work on |
| 15:41.27 | brlcad | does that make sense? |
| 15:41.36 | sofat | Yes |
| 15:42.00 | brlcad | the point (for now) isn't to solve all the problems for *any* of the options |
| 15:42.25 | brlcad | it's to understand what will be required IF we decide to go with that option |
| 15:42.25 | sofat | But i want to say something about option 3 for wordpress |
| 15:42.38 | brlcad | ok |
| 15:42.48 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 65017 (brlcad/trunk/misc/tools/CMakeLists.txt brlcad/trunk/src/util/CMakeLists.txt): More tweaking of dom2dox build, move back to misc/tools. Add instructions on how to build to README.txt |
| 15:43.33 | sofat | Which plugin you send me in mail this plugin is not working according our needs |
| 15:43.49 | sofat | The working is very different and difficult |
| 15:43.57 | brlcad | okay |
| 15:44.22 | sofat | Option one is good for us if i friendly say |
| 15:44.35 | brlcad | back up |
| 15:44.42 | brlcad | we still do not have options identified |
| 15:45.01 | brlcad | we have #1 .. there is no #2 or #3 beyond me saying what they COULD be |
| 15:45.55 | brlcad | do see what I mean? |
| 15:45.58 | brlcad | this is called cost evaluation |
| 15:46.21 | brlcad | you're trying to make a decision based on partial information |
| 15:46.38 | brlcad | I'm saying lets stop and get more information, write our options down |
| 15:46.58 | brlcad | this project is going to have a huge impact |
| 15:47.40 | brlcad | it's important to spend just a little time (and we're talking just about a day or two effort) to consider these options but consider them methodically |
| 15:48.33 | brlcad | we may still decide to go with option #1 and that'll be fine, but right now it seems like a very incomplete perspective |
| 15:49.50 | *** join/#brlcad snowlove (~albertcod@1.39.32.42) |
| 15:50.14 | brlcad | for example, option #1 has other negative considerations like requiring full migration off of mediawiki (doesn't make sense to have two wikis) |
| 15:50.33 | sofat | Yes i know this |
| 15:50.36 | brlcad | it's not a show-stopper, but it's certainly not ideal |
| 15:50.42 | sofat | And its paid |
| 15:50.50 | brlcad | looking at all the options side by side, that consideration can be compared |
| 15:51.01 | sofat | Okay |
| 15:51.06 | brlcad | it's free for us, but right -- not open source |
| 15:51.20 | sofat | Yed |
| 15:51.23 | sofat | Yes |
| 15:52.04 | brlcad | can you write down the 5 option's that have been discussed, on the wiki? |
| 15:53.22 | sofat | Not yet but will do this |
| 15:53.56 | brlcad | I think that will be very helpful |
| 15:54.09 | brlcad | I can then put those options into a decision matrix with our evaluation criteria |
| 15:54.43 | brlcad | hi snowlove |
| 15:55.25 | snowlove | Hi brlcad |
| 15:56.24 | brlcad | sofat: I have another topic to discuss if you have a couple more minutes |
| 15:56.44 | sofat | Yes please tell me |
| 15:56.59 | brlcad | here's a reminder of ABCDEF characterization if you don't have it handy: http://sourceforge.net/p/brlcad/mailman/message/34096560/ |
| 15:57.10 | brlcad | so the other topic is your patches... |
| 15:57.21 | sofat | Yes |
| 15:57.22 | brlcad | you've been doing a fantastic job creating and submitting patches |
| 15:57.29 | sofat | Yes |
| 15:57.34 | brlcad | but there's a pattern :) |
| 15:57.46 | sofat | Means |
| 15:57.54 | brlcad | if I'm not mistaken, every one of them so far has had some minor problem |
| 15:58.37 | sofat | Please elaborate more |
| 15:59.19 | brlcad | basically, when patches get reviewed, the committer makes a note of whether they had to change or do anything |
| 15:59.25 | brlcad | besides apply the patch and commit |
| 15:59.48 | brlcad | every one of your patches has had something minor wrong with it |
| 16:00.25 | brlcad | for example, I think your most recent mispelled a file "megd" instead of "mged" or something like that |
| 16:00.30 | brlcad | and that was the only error |
| 16:00.35 | brlcad | VERY minor |
| 16:00.53 | brlcad | but the point (of our patch system) is to try and get "perfect" patches |
| 16:01.00 | brlcad | that require no changes, none whatsoever |
| 16:01.14 | brlcad | because if you can do that a couple times, then you don't need to be submitting patches :) |
| 16:01.30 | brlcad | and we can just grant you commit access at that point |
| 16:01.57 | brlcad | which we WANT to do .. but can't because each has had some minor issue |
| 16:02.24 | brlcad | so really just saying keep up the great work .. but try to notice the details a little more |
| 16:02.58 | brlcad | make sure the patch applies cleanly, that there are no mistakes/typos/spelling issues, that it compiles, that it validates, etc |
| 16:02.59 | sofat | Sorry again not happen this. |
| 16:03.05 | brlcad | no no |
| 16:03.07 | brlcad | don't be sorry |
| 16:03.09 | brlcad | you're doing great! |
| 16:03.32 | sofat | I have last question |
| 16:03.33 | brlcad | it's frustrating for us because you've done more than enough work to be granted commit status |
| 16:03.45 | brlcad | we want you to work more efficiently :) |
| 16:04.15 | brlcad | so yes, please do not misunderstand |
| 16:04.45 | brlcad | you're doing great and you should keep doing what you're doing -- just try to verify that there are no issues |
| 16:05.01 | brlcad | watching the commits can be great to learn what issues there were when your patches get applied |
| 16:05.35 | brlcad | if starseek1r or someone else had to commit changes after applying a patch from you, that means it probably needed something |
| 16:05.40 | snowlove | brlcad, How are you doing? Last time we had chat on materials database's database design. You gave suggestion to create another table having all the material properties in it and another table having just key ->value( property->value). This was an alternative to forbid the dynamic creation of tables. But this way whole code has to be written again because of the change in database design. I just want to know do we really have any shortcoming if we create |
| 16:05.40 | snowlove | tables dynamically ( although I have been warned by a few ;-) )? |
| 16:06.22 | brlcad | snowlove: yeah, dynamic tables are definitely suboptimal |
| 16:06.34 | brlcad | they're great for proof-of-concept to make sure the feature can/will work |
| 16:06.45 | sofat | Ok |
| 16:06.46 | brlcad | and I think that was the sole consideration when you started |
| 16:07.12 | brlcad | but now that it's proven, the next improvement would be to eliminate that dynamism |
| 16:07.23 | snowlove | yes. we had momentary brain storming on it. |
| 16:07.37 | brlcad | sofat: thank you! |
| 16:08.01 | snowlove | Does that mean changing the database design and code eventually? |
| 16:08.07 | brlcad | sofat: do you think you'll be able to write down some options with ABCDEF steps this week? |
| 16:08.21 | brlcad | snowlove: I think so |
| 16:08.23 | sofat | Last question please |
| 16:08.25 | sofat | Yes |
| 16:08.31 | sofat | I will do |
| 16:09.00 | snowlove | alright brlcad we will do it if that's an improvement. |
| 16:09.32 | brlcad | snowlove: I think it's the natural next step for that code maturing |
| 16:09.59 | brlcad | and I'm sure there will be other change (probably not quite so impacting) as we roll it into production use too |
| 16:10.16 | archivist | as a database person it is never ok to need dynamic table creation :) |
| 16:10.21 | brlcad | sofat: did you have another question for me, or were you saying no more questions? :) |
| 16:10.44 | brlcad | there ya go ;) |
| 16:11.06 | snowlove | alright, brlcad I am ready for any change now. ;-) thanks archivist |
| 16:11.14 | brlcad | archivist: so you've not worked with nosql databases? everything dynamic? :) |
| 16:11.44 | brlcad | a schema of schemas of data |
| 16:12.07 | archivist | brlcad, no I am a relational database person |
| 16:12.33 | sofat | I have no question |
| 16:12.43 | archivist | I think some of the nosql is a bit oversold |
| 16:12.49 | brlcad | sofat: okay, then thanks again |
| 16:13.01 | sofat | From today discussion I understand this is period which i found best option for ABCDEF work. But do not do any coding |
| 16:13.08 | sofat | I am right ? |
| 16:13.25 | brlcad | archivist: I agree though the same can be said of relational too ... applied to domains entirely inappropriately |
| 16:13.26 | snowlove | brlcad, I am also going to explore mongo db. Does mediawiki support mongo db? Have any idea? |
| 16:13.56 | brlcad | sofat: right, don't worry about coding/fixing anything -- just understand where it's at |
| 16:14.20 | brlcad | if it helps you do look at code to understand how HARD it might be, that's fine .. but yeah, do not need to modify code just yet |
| 16:14.33 | sofat | Ok |
| 16:14.51 | brlcad | snowlove: no idea |
| 16:15.19 | snowlove | alright brlcad , I will see if it supports mongodb |
| 16:16.51 | snowlove | I will show you db schema with the desired changes in database to eliminate dynamism in a couple of days. |
| 16:18.05 | archivist | snowlove, you can make key/value pairs even in a relational database |
| 16:18.37 | snowlove | archivist, absolutely! we are using mysql right now. |
| 16:19.05 | archivist | I know, I downloaded the materials db a loooong while ago |
| 16:19.39 | snowlove | did you have a look at the database design? |
| 16:20.40 | snowlove | I might need your help in shedding off the dynamism. :) |
| 16:23.02 | archivist | looks like it was a year ago :) http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/mirror/brlcad/material/ |
| 16:24.17 | snowlove | this is the older code, I have rewritten it. |
| 16:25.06 | archivist | it did need "some" modification |
| 16:26.06 | snowlove | You may see the latest code here. https://github.com/BRL-CAD/MaterialsDatabase |
| 16:26.25 | snowlove | the database filename is wikimaterial.sql |
| 16:27.49 | snowlove | What actually happens is that we have separate table for each material property and when any user adds a new property, a new table is created. |
| 16:28.23 | snowlove | So I was having problem to update the database schema in MediaWiki after the addition of every new property. |
| 16:29.12 | snowlove | So archivist we have to get rid of this dynamism. |
| 16:30.16 | archivist | properties should be just one table, then a join table between materials and properties |
| 16:35.34 | archivist | but what about form of a material :) |
| 16:35.34 | archivist | uts varies with temperature |
| 16:35.34 | snowlove | alright. Do you mean join or linking materials and properties with foreign keys? Because some materials might not show certain properties. |
| 16:35.34 | snowlove | We can have a separate table for forms and link each material with foreign key. |
| 16:35.34 | archivist | so you dont have entries in the join table then |
| 16:35.35 | snowlove | Please elaborate how this can be done. Am I right about linking with FKs. |
| 16:35.36 | snowlove | ? |
| 16:36.54 | archivist | FKs are used in joins, FKs help maintain referential integrity |
| 16:37.32 | archivist | you can join without FKs also |
| 16:39.48 | snowlove | Alright archivist I will show you the new database design soon and you may point out shortcomings if any. |
| 16:44.03 | archivist | also some of the database design needs some though of the queries to be made |
| 16:44.10 | archivist | thought |
| 16:44.52 | archivist | eg will you want the curve of UTS with temperature of a steel |
| 16:46.28 | snowlove | How can we handle this? |
| 16:47.34 | archivist | something like rowid,materialid,temp,uts,units |
| 16:48.07 | archivist | so when you join your material to this you get many rows returned |
| 16:53.50 | snowlove | that's fine. If I have got you right then UTS being a property will be contained in properties table. And we will have the attributes like materialid, value, temp in the key-value table. And the attributes like property_name, units in property table. |
| 16:54.49 | snowlove | there will be just a few more entries for UTS of materials at different temps. |
| 17:07.02 | archivist | snowlove, another thing to be aware of is over normalising the data, eg a melting point is likely to always be 1 to 1 if you are using standard temperature and pressure |
| 17:10.37 | snowlove | archivist, are not we concerned with material properties only at standard conditions of temperature and pressure? |
| 17:11.02 | snowlove | because changing them can change the values of many properties. |
| 17:11.37 | snowlove | For example boiling point also changes with change in pressure. |
| 17:16.54 | snowlove | brlcad, please refer to the above lines. |
| 17:22.41 | archivist | let me pick one line from your latest .sql, from the boiling point table you have `mat_id` int(20) unsigned NULL, why allow NULL, a boiling point without a material is non existent |
| 17:30.30 | snowlove | oh thanks. that's a mistake I will correct it. |
| 17:31.24 | snowlove | archivist, did you understand what I intended to ask above? |
| 17:31.53 | archivist | that null problem is repeated :) |
| 17:33.33 | snowlove | I will correct that. I did not have much experience with database last year. :) |
| 17:33.59 | snowlove | you would find a few more mistakes if you keep on looking. ;-) |
| 17:34.34 | archivist | you wont get all the experience if I find them all :) |
| 17:42.22 | snowlove | yeah absolutely. |
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| 20:35.07 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:carlmoore * 65018 brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/gencolor.xml: add comment about use of RGB values |
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| 20:36.02 | andrei_il | cmake doesn't work on revision 65018. |
| 20:36.31 | andrei_il | http://slexy.org/view/s20O0mQ6xg |
| 20:45.21 | andrei_il | actually, it might be on my end, but it doesn't make any sense |
| 20:45.32 | andrei_il | I run rm -rf brlcad/misc/tools and then svn update |
| 20:45.44 | andrei_il | and svn still says I have differences between main repo |
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| 21:27.40 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:carlmoore * 65019 brlcad/trunk/src/util/pix-ps.c: add 'h' to comment |
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