| 00:02.09 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (~ibot@rikers.org) |
| 00:02.10 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || #brlcad logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD release 7.16.10 preparations and testing under way (only bug-fix, stabilization, and minor commits until tagged) |
| 00:12.43 | brlcad | not with that little information |
| 01:08.47 | starseeker | huh, interesting http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/08/the-us-brainpower-map/60641/ |
| 02:29.56 | d-lo | brlcad: ack, sorry. forgot the pastebin: |
| 02:30.02 | d-lo | http://pastebin.com/ae0bZdwQ |
| 02:34.03 | d-lo | *watching documentry on Chernobyl 4* ....forgot how scary it all was/is... |
| 02:40.31 | d-lo | ...wow. workers picking up peices of graphite that were >7,000 Roentgen.... |
| 06:01.27 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (~poolio@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ) |
| 06:03.16 | *** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (~Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1) |
| 06:43.50 | *** join/#brlcad merzo (~merzo@smartbussiness.mobicom.net.ua) |
| 08:04.06 | *** join/#brlcad Ralith (~ralith@216.162.199.202) |
| 08:20.25 | CIA-43 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r39994 10/brlcad/branches/cmake/CMakeLists.txt: changed to the CMake way to read from files |
| 12:07.28 | *** join/#brlcad eto (~CyBrain@unaffiliated/eto) |
| 12:07.37 | eto | hello |
| 12:07.51 | eto | can brl cad be used to script model creation using csg? |
| 12:44.30 | *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (~rossberg@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ) |
| 12:52.13 | brlcad | howdy d_rossberg |
| 12:52.18 | brlcad | nice update to the version method |
| 12:53.14 | brlcad | d-lo: wow, odd failure |
| 12:55.20 | brlcad | my guess would be to 1) try a fresh checkout (not just a clean'd build), then if you still get it then 2) try adding --cache-file=/dev/null to configure |
| 12:55.42 | brlcad | eto: absolutely, that's one of BRL-CAD's strengths |
| 12:56.36 | brlcad | eto: see http://brlcad.org/wiki/SGI_Cube and http://brlcad.org/wiki/Spiral |
| 12:57.08 | brlcad | demonstrates scripted model creation using shell script, tcl script, and via perl script |
| 13:12.34 | d_rossberg | brlcad: it is sometimes burdensome to get all the strings together for a build setup (CMake or any other) |
| 13:13.03 | d_rossberg | btw: how about an install setup (with CMake) for rt^3? |
| 13:14.40 | d_rossberg | i tried to do so for the core interface but run into problems with finding the libraries (*.so files) from the installation directories |
| 13:15.36 | d_rossberg | there happens some library search path replacements during the installation process with cmake |
| 13:39.40 | *** join/#brlcad Zaebos (~irc@pd95b7f5e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:44.32 | *** join/#brlcad branco (~branco@79.114.30.56) |
| 13:44.46 | branco | you got wiki spam |
| 13:44.50 | *** part/#brlcad branco (~branco@79.114.30.56) |
| 13:51.52 | CIA-43 | BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2257 10/wiki/Documentation: Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Linomone|Linomone]] ([[User talk:Linomone|Talk]]); changed back to last version by [[User:Ssd|Ssd]] |
| 13:52.13 | CIA-43 | BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:Linomone]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled, e-mail blocked): Spamming links to external sites |
| 14:14.25 | kanzure | good morning |
| 14:15.06 | kanzure | does anyone have hints for where the step import utility is? |
| 14:24.09 | kanzure | brlcad: there seems to be an =n at the end of this file: http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/spiral.pl |
| 14:39.19 | *** join/#brlcad mafm (~mafm@83.37.154.93) |
| 15:10.34 | *** join/#brlcad _psilva (~psilva@static-96-255-52-7.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 15:23.20 | brlcad | kanzure: step-g on a source install in the bin directory |
| 15:26.10 | CIA-43 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r39995 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/spiral.pl: kanzure notes a stray =n, probably from syncing with the wiki |
| 15:30.56 | brlcad | thx kanzure |
| 15:32.11 | kanzure | brlcad: found it in src/other/step/src/ |
| 15:32.31 | kanzure | brlcad: for some reason while tracing through the SCL code it seems to hook up with OpenNURBS? |
| 15:32.40 | kanzure | like in src/conv/step/OpenNurbsInterfaces.cpp |
| 15:33.25 | kanzure | was this code generated or written by hand? |
| 15:39.18 | CIA-43 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r39996 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): bump, regressions all passing. preparing for release 7.16.10 |
| 15:45.33 | _psilva | brlcad: how was siggraph |
| 15:46.10 | CIA-43 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r39997 10/brlcad/trunk/ChangeLog: updated ChangeLog in preparation for 7.16.10, updates since 2010-04-28 |
| 15:48.03 | brlcad | kanzure: src/other/step is the processing library layer, the converter is build as src/conv/step/step-g |
| 15:48.54 | brlcad | src/other/step does not hook into openNURBS, but our converter (src/conv/step) does import them as openNURBS entites |
| 15:49.17 | kanzure | huh |
| 15:49.44 | kanzure | so you don't do export yet? |
| 15:49.52 | brlcad | no export yet |
| 15:50.06 | brlcad | writing an exporter would be the next task after the importer is complete |
| 15:50.13 | brlcad | but the exporter is the FAR simpler task |
| 15:50.50 | kanzure | so, i have a python-based STEP export utility |
| 15:50.51 | brlcad | probably could have a pretty feature-filled exporter in less than a week, just not yet priority |
| 15:50.56 | kanzure | and nobody is going to use it if there's no visualizer |
| 15:51.05 | kanzure | originally i was thinking of using opencascade for the visualization of the STEP files that it generates |
| 15:51.14 | kanzure | but honestly the reason i started working on it was so that i could avoid the dependency on opencascade |
| 15:51.31 | brlcad | perfectly reasonable reason |
| 15:51.34 | kanzure | so |
| 15:51.41 | kanzure | i was thinking that i could maybe steal brlcad's visualizer |
| 15:51.50 | brlcad | sure |
| 15:52.17 | kanzure | i haven't used step-g yet.. how fast/slow is it for reasonable models? |
| 15:52.38 | kanzure | i mean, ideally, each time a user adds in a NURBS or brep object, i'd want to generate a STEP file and ask the visualizer to render it |
| 15:52.45 | brlcad | it's geared for full detailed vehicles, production use |
| 15:52.54 | kanzure | but a user-enabled "render it!" button/action would be fine too |
| 15:53.02 | kanzure | i hear there's an opengl renderer as well? |
| 15:53.20 | kanzure | i mean frankly this is just a bunch of triangles right? :P |
| 15:53.26 | brlcad | you could get a render-it button with step-g and rt pretty easily (scriptably) |
| 15:53.34 | kanzure | GPUs should be able to eat this up |
| 15:53.35 | brlcad | the raytrace is going to take longer than the conversion |
| 15:53.38 | kanzure | yes |
| 15:53.57 | kanzure | hm |
| 15:54.04 | kanzure | well, i guess i can do step-g -> g-stl |
| 15:54.07 | kanzure | and then use.. uh.. |
| 15:54.22 | brlcad | our step-g doesn't presently handle polygonal models, it reads in advanced boundary representation s(i.e. NURBS objects) |
| 15:54.26 | kanzure | right |
| 15:54.39 | kanzure | but brlcad can export NURBS into meshes right? |
| 15:55.07 | kanzure | and then i can just use something that can render STL files |
| 15:55.24 | kanzure | frankly this is going to suck for large objects or complicated STEP files |
| 15:56.46 | brlcad | neit! |
| 15:57.05 | kanzure | do you have any insight into how i.e. solidworks renders its models? at some point it has to convert the curve-based geometries into triangulated meshes |
| 15:57.06 | brlcad | we do not yet have tessellation support implemented for NURBS, it's next on our list |
| 15:57.17 | kanzure | hrm |
| 15:57.17 | brlcad | so you can't run g-stl on a nurbs |
| 15:57.21 | kanzure | fooey |
| 15:57.53 | brlcad | kanzure: feel free to implement it :) |
| 15:57.57 | brlcad | not that hard really |
| 15:58.10 | brlcad | we should have it implemented probably within 3 months |
| 15:58.26 | kanzure | is this how other CAD engines do it? they tesselate their model every time it changes? |
| 15:58.47 | brlcad | they tessellate it on the fly just to pass it to opengl |
| 15:58.49 | kanzure | (i am especially thinking of solidworks where the user updates the model with the mouse and sees real-time changes) |
| 15:58.50 | brlcad | it's really that easy |
| 15:59.03 | brlcad | you just iterate over each surface |
| 15:59.07 | kanzure | doesn't tessellation scale geometrically with the number of surfaces or some shit like that? |
| 15:59.16 | brlcad | we actually already have it implemented for our former nurbs implementation |
| 15:59.29 | kanzure | know where in the src tree that might be? i'd like to peak |
| 15:59.36 | brlcad | depends on how you make the knobs for tessellation |
| 15:59.52 | brlcad | if you create a fixed number of polys per surface, yeah.. you're gonna get screwed if there are lots of surfaces |
| 16:00.10 | brlcad | ideally, you create fewer for smaller surfaces, more for larger |
| 16:00.16 | brlcad | fewer for flat, more for curved, etc |
| 16:00.21 | kanzure | ah right, and you usually set smoothness and other parameters |
| 16:01.09 | brlcad | gotta run, lunch.. bbiab! |
| 17:08.10 | *** join/#brlcad merzo (~merzo@31-197-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net) |
| 18:01.04 | ``Erik | doobiedoobiedoo |
| 18:12.47 | _psilva | *burp* |
| 18:54.39 | *** join/#brlcad Alexandrus (~nil@p4FE3DE3B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:20.30 | CIA-43 | BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r39998 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/ (5 files in 2 dirs): more widgets for bot utility; layout change |
| 19:47.37 | *** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (~Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1) |
| 20:05.50 | _psilva | well then |
| 20:05.56 | _psilva | web urls are valid c/c++ |
| 20:05.57 | Alexandrus | now |
| 20:06.02 | Alexandrus | rofl.. |
| 20:06.07 | _psilva | mind boggling |
| 20:06.17 | Alexandrus | all of them? |
| 20:06.22 | _psilva | of course |
| 20:06.30 | _psilva | http: is a label, // is a comment |
| 20:07.00 | _psilva | in fact vc++ is stupid enough to just warn about unused 'labels' if u have more than one web url in the file |
| 20:08.02 | Alexandrus | lol...labels |
| 20:08.10 | Alexandrus | haven't used them in any language in ages |
| 20:08.16 | Alexandrus | wonder they still exist |
| 20:09.40 | ``Erik | of course they do, goto must survive at all costs! |
| 20:10.03 | ``Erik | (linux has tons of labels and gotos, BRL-CAD has a few, ...) |
| 20:10.38 | starseeker | even Lisp can use them, in principle - I've seen them used for a state machine |
| 20:11.12 | _psilva | we use em for small fsa |
| 20:11.38 | _psilva | but where's the 'error on web urls' option :o |
| 20:11.44 | Alexandrus | <- does use labels only in "case" |
| 20:12.01 | Alexandrus | http:// might compile, but propably will crash next line |
| 20:12.02 | Alexandrus | (fpc) |
| 20:12.06 | starseeker | _psilva: how'd you stuble onto that one? |
| 20:13.40 | _psilva | pasted a url and forgot the comment into a .cpp |
| 20:13.47 | starseeker | ah :-) |
| 20:13.57 | _psilva | compiled the project and barely caught the warning |
| 20:13.58 | _psilva | heh |
| 20:13.59 | ``Erik | pebcak |
| 20:14.05 | starseeker | shh - don't tell ``Erik you work with cpp! |
| 20:14.25 | _psilva | i've drunk the tegtmeyer coolaid |
| 20:14.27 | _psilva | :o |
| 20:14.53 | starseeker | uh oh :-) |
| 20:17.11 | Alexandrus | has cpp been declared sin by a brl-cad god? |
| 20:17.24 | _psilva | we've certainly gone over the deepend with namespace and meta programming |
| 20:17.31 | _psilva | so aint no turning back :p |
| 20:17.56 | starseeker | _psilva: "we"? not the BRL-CAD we, surely |
| 20:18.12 | _psilva | nah, company i work for |
| 20:18.24 | starseeker | Alexandrus: I'm reminded of the ghostbusters scene - ``Erik, "are you a god?" |
| 20:18.25 | _psilva | next major version is mostly a rewrite |
| 20:18.29 | starseeker | ow |
| 20:19.00 | Alexandrus | @starseeker: i have to admit, i am atheist... |
| 20:19.04 | Alexandrus | so...no.... |
| 20:19.06 | Alexandrus | i am not:P |
| 20:19.22 | starseeker | reflects that BRL-CAD is gradually using more and more C++ - OpenNURBS and STEP stuff now, looking into Qt and OGRE... |
| 20:19.28 | starseeker | Alexandrus: hehe |
| 20:20.20 | brlcad | howdy _psilva .. saw your guys booth, didn't get a chance to talk though |
| 20:20.29 | _psilva | hey |
| 20:20.41 | _psilva | was the demo crashed? |
| 20:20.42 | _psilva | heh |
| 20:21.23 | _psilva | there was a gc stack unrolling issue causing the ps3 to stack overflow |
| 20:21.37 | _psilva | causing the demo to freeze frequently :( |
| 20:22.01 | _psilva | did u try out the stereo setup tho? |
| 20:25.27 | starseeker | _psilva: I'm drawing a blank - which project are you with? (sorry...) |
| 20:27.24 | _psilva | commercial one *evil* :) |
| 20:27.27 | _psilva | scaleform.com |
| 20:28.34 | Alexandrus | internal commercial filtered one line... |
| 20:28.37 | starseeker | _psilva: nah, commerical firms are only evil if they *act* that way. Many (most?) are not |
| 20:31.28 | _psilva | to flash haters we are evil heh |
| 20:31.56 | Alexandrus | there must be flash-satanists:P |
| 20:34.46 | brlcad | _psilva: I didn't see a demo, so apparently |
| 20:35.29 | _psilva | woops |
| 20:35.42 | _psilva | i think we may have switched to a demo reel as backup :) |
| 20:37.32 | _psilva | heard the expo was smaller this time around? |
| 20:38.16 | brlcad | just a lil bit |
| 20:40.02 | ``Erik | ain't nothin' wrong with cpp, starseeker, but c++... :D |
| 20:40.21 | brlcad | heh |
| 20:40.50 | brlcad | poor misunderstood c preprocessor, given a bad wrap due to msvc |
| 20:41.43 | ``Erik | (notice that C++ stuff from a UNIX environment tends to be .c++, .cxx, .cc, .C, ... the original 4 recommended extensions :D ) |
| 20:42.19 | ``Erik | psilva: actually a flash engine, or just using actionscript as the input language? |
| 20:43.21 | brlcad | .cxx ftw |
| 20:43.45 | brlcad | portable and unambiguous |
| 20:44.07 | ``Erik | ayup, that's the one I choose if I ever expect it to touch winderz |
| 20:44.26 | Alexandrus | wouldn't you like to write it all in pseudo code?:P |
| 20:44.53 | ``Erik | wants to write it all in CL and laugh when c++ weenies think they're doing metaprogramming :D *duck* |
| 20:46.05 | brlcad | Alexandrus: not particularly, I find writing pseudocode more time-consuming and difficult than real code |
| 20:46.18 | brlcad | since you can't incrementally compile, test, and structure it |
| 20:46.47 | Alexandrus | @brlcad: i develop my algorithms weeks for weeks on a board |
| 20:46.53 | Alexandrus | most ist math |
| 20:47.06 | Alexandrus | writting code is the fast hack at the end of a long journey |
| 20:48.00 | _psilva | ``Erik: flash engine i guess |
| 20:48.22 | _psilva | just author SWFs and run it with gfx |
| 20:48.32 | Alexandrus | so...99% i write is pseudo code |
| 20:49.15 | ``Erik | hm, still waiting for a decent open source flash engine... almost took the time to learn 'haxe' and just suck it up using a browser |
| 20:51.38 | _psilva | haxe isnt a flash engine |
| 20:51.57 | _psilva | only thing close to an oss flash engine is gameswf |
| 20:52.06 | _psilva | which hundreds have forked (incl us) |
| 20:56.49 | ``Erik | yeah, but haxe can compile to flash, iirc |
| 20:59.07 | ``Erik | then the browser can execute it |
| 20:59.24 | _psilva | it's still actionscript, but yes, it can generate swfs |
| 21:00.10 | ``Erik | (it provides a lot of simplified capabilities, like trivial standardized portable-ish 2d rendering shtuff) |
| 21:01.05 | _psilva | but any as2/3 compiler with the right (intrinsic) class defns can do that |
| 21:01.29 | _psilva | mtasc can mix in an existing swf (with graphics/symbols) with custom actionscript |
| 21:02.21 | _psilva | biggest problem is really the ide part |
| 21:02.31 | _psilva | no real good soln |
| 21:02.39 | _psilva | nothing comes close to flash studio |
| 21:02.51 | _psilva | the next best thing is another commercial product, swf quicker |
| 21:03.16 | ``Erik | haxe is the 'next gen' of mtasc, I thought |
| 21:04.57 | _psilva | dunno about that |
| 21:05.27 | _psilva | got plenty of customers using mtasc; never gotten one wanting to use haxe |
| 21:05.48 | ``Erik | http://www.mtasc.org/ says so *shrug* |
| 21:06.13 | ``Erik | mebbe people want as2 for compatibility |
| 21:06.54 | _psilva | perhaps, but the issue is haxe != actionscript |
| 21:07.15 | _psilva | similar-ish syntax, but more effort to port code |
| 21:07.52 | _psilva | ultimately its all avm1 bytecode, but still |
| 21:07.56 | ``Erik | *shrug* :) I dunno either, just all looked like a bytecode solution that's good for 2d game writing |
| 21:07.57 | _psilva | development phase counts |
| 21:08.25 | _psilva | oh yea, im sure its good for programmer types |
| 21:08.33 | _psilva | sucks for our target audience |
| 21:09.51 | ``Erik | :D I'm a programmer type, so haxe looked attractive... the adobe as click/drag/drop ui aint' mah thang |
| 21:10.22 | ``Erik | (of course, now I'm looking at ogre3d/bullet/OIS using common lisp, different ideas... lots of ideas and enthusiasm, never any action...) |
| 21:10.39 | _psilva | plenty of non-programmer types around, hence why we're in business :) |
| 21:10.54 | _psilva | solve a workflow problem and gain fans |
| 21:10.59 | ``Erik | *nod* designer types dislike having to do programmy things |
| 21:11.29 | _psilva | of course we get plenty of mutterings from ui programmers itching to create Yet Another UI System |
| 21:11.33 | _psilva | sucks for them ;) |
| 21:11.52 | ``Erik | hehhe "fine. You get forth. Suck it." :D |
| 21:12.36 | _psilva | the less the artists/designers talk to programmers and vice versa, the happier everyone becomes |
| 21:12.55 | ``Erik | I've noticed that |
| 21:13.26 | *** join/#brlcad Nohla (~Nohla@201.255.255.197) |
| 21:13.28 | ``Erik | I busted arse to recompile my prep tools to run on windows, and they continued bitching about having to open up a dos window and run a .exe file with args |
| 21:14.33 | ``Erik | ended up writing a java class to execute commands with some fu to handle args, stdin, stdout, stderr, all in a cheery java-esque wrapper and finding a java weenie to try building a resource management gui |
| 21:15.36 | ``Erik | and my battery is about to die O.o hasta manana :) |
| 21:16.38 | _psilva | heh |
| 21:16.43 | _psilva | cya |
| 22:12.28 | starseeker | O.o the FBI is bugging wikipedia about their copy of the FBI seal image? |
| 22:12.58 | starseeker | uh... |
| 22:13.01 | Alexandrus | let them remove it:P |
| 22:13.15 | Alexandrus | fbi without seal is fine:P |
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