| 00:37.07 | ``Erik | how close to release? I wanna commit my stuff to have rt output to png, but I don't want it to be released until it gets a fair amount of testing... (I think the rtedge/stdout bug is because I did this to that a while back) |
| 00:37.55 | starseeker | ``Erik: shaking out the red command now |
| 00:38.02 | starseeker | also need more tests of nirt |
| 00:38.12 | ``Erik | so before siggraph |
| 00:38.33 | starseeker | assuming nothing spectacular turns up |
| 00:40.00 | ``Erik | ya'll in tomorrow? |
| 00:40.24 | starseeker | yep |
| 00:42.21 | ``Erik | brlcad? |
| 00:58.20 | *** join/#brlcad _yukonbob (~svs@S010600235a187d92.ok.shawcable.net) |
| 01:29.24 | CIA-93 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r39873 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/libpng/Makefile.am: Don't get to first base on distcheck with these entries in there, looks like we don't have those files present in BRL-CAD tree |
| 01:57.49 | CIA-93 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r39874 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tktable/Makefile.in: Gonna need some extra rules - snarf from one of the other src/other Makefiles |
| 01:58.38 | CIA-93 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r39875 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tktable/Makefile.in: Probably want a tab there... |
| 02:00.51 | *** join/#brlcad akafubu (~akafubu@unaffiliated/akafubu) |
| 02:17.03 | CIA-93 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r39876 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tktable/Makefile.in: Er, whoops - no uninstall-doc here |
| 02:36.22 | CIA-93 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r39877 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tktable/Makefile.in: Wrong - there are docs, just no uninstall rule for them. Try adding one. |
| 02:53.34 | CIA-93 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r39878 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tktable/Makefile.in: Not doing list here |
| 03:05.14 | starseeker | ponders... I wonder if librt could split conceptually into libgeom, librt, libtess, libgeomdb... |
| 03:06.41 | starseeker | in principle, tessellation and database i/o don't have much to do with raytracing... |
| 03:10.10 | starseeker | OK, that gets by tktable - now togl is complaining about permission denied errors for creating files... which already seem to be there, odd |
| 03:10.30 | starseeker | oh, that's that generated stuff - I'll be a clean rule didn't do its job |
| 03:10.35 | starseeker | morning for that |
| 03:10.41 | starseeker | is outta here |
| 03:47.49 | brlcad | starseeker: there's some separation possible, but it wouldn't be easy at all to break them up in a useful (i.e., independent) manner |
| 03:48.45 | brlcad | and if you made clean break separation between the APIs, you add a high risk of adding overhead to raytrace time |
| 03:52.08 | brlcad | doable, just would be a fair bit of work to do without keeping a series of library dependencies |
| 03:54.56 | brlcad | try separating something like libnmg back out fully separate .. pretty good example of how complex a problem it is, and it's probably as good as it gets |
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| 09:34.12 | Alexandrus | moin(); |
| 10:10.46 | Alexandrus | coil stub command implemented:) |
| 10:10.51 | Alexandrus | (no function yet) |
| 11:47.43 | Alexandrus | is someone here? |
| 11:47.55 | Alexandrus | i have some questions about names in brlcad |
| 11:48.39 | Alexandrus | (object names) |
| 12:13.06 | brlcad | best to just ask your question, someone will eventually respond |
| 12:13.25 | Alexandrus | ok |
| 12:13.40 | Alexandrus | i was wondering, how names are set in the database |
| 12:13.41 | Alexandrus | in source |
| 12:13.59 | Alexandrus | there is some "bu_vls_printf" |
| 12:14.23 | Alexandrus | seems to do it...but i am still pretty unstable about it |
| 12:14.36 | Alexandrus | also, i have to rewrite coil to be more like tire |
| 12:14.37 | brlcad | bu is our libbu library, BRL-CAD Utility Library |
| 12:14.54 | brlcad | vls stands for variable length string |
| 12:15.11 | Alexandrus | so this is simple string handling |
| 12:15.20 | brlcad | libbu provides a set of functions for reading and writing strings of an arbitrary length |
| 12:15.27 | starseeker | Alexandrus: yeah - coil should be pretty easy to make into a ged command |
| 12:15.28 | brlcad | printf just prints into a string |
| 12:15.31 | Alexandrus | like pascal string |
| 12:15.39 | brlcad | man printf |
| 12:15.45 | Alexandrus | @starseeker: as much as i am a beginner, not yet |
| 12:15.57 | brlcad | same basic semantics, but instead of working with a char *, it works with a struct bu_vls * |
| 12:15.57 | starseeker | it's not so much "making it like tire" as it is surrounding the coil logic with the proper ged structures and calls |
| 12:16.22 | Alexandrus | thats what i mean |
| 12:16.42 | Alexandrus | but i have to seperate the main procedure first |
| 12:16.56 | Alexandrus | and for this, i have to understand the db stuff |
| 12:18.14 | starseeker | db objecs are created with the mk_* calls |
| 12:19.13 | Alexandrus | ok, next step: removing file name parameter from coil |
| 12:19.53 | Alexandrus | (extrem small steps:P) |
| 12:19.58 | starseeker | that's a bit trickier - basically the information on the current file is contained in the gedp structure |
| 12:20.32 | Alexandrus | there is some GED_INIT |
| 12:20.48 | Alexandrus | and a mk_id(db_fp,"Tire") |
| 12:20.52 | starseeker | look in the function ged_tire |
| 12:20.53 | Alexandrus | where i am not sure, why it is needed there |
| 12:22.04 | Alexandrus | first i will move the wdb_fopen further up |
| 12:22.21 | starseeker | file names will more or less be replaced with gedp->ged_wdbp, but I don't think it's a 1-1 swap |
| 12:22.39 | starseeker | (could be wrong - Bob actually converted tire to a ged command) |
| 12:22.43 | Alexandrus | you know, i started yesterday |
| 12:22.46 | brlcad | Alexandrus: read src/shapes/tire.c |
| 12:22.53 | Alexandrus | allready open |
| 12:23.06 | Alexandrus | i started creating a stub coil command first |
| 12:23.08 | Alexandrus | its working |
| 12:23.11 | brlcad | cool |
| 12:23.18 | Alexandrus | (using color.c) |
| 12:23.22 | starseeker | heads in... |
| 12:23.43 | Alexandrus | gedp->ged_wdbp...hmm... |
| 12:24.12 | Alexandrus | i guess its supposed to be a database file name or? |
| 12:24.31 | Alexandrus | (inside the db) |
| 12:24.46 | brlcad | it's a handle on the database file |
| 12:25.12 | Alexandrus | hmm...i will create this one, as soon as the structure of the coil.c/main is compatible to this |
| 12:27.31 | Alexandrus | realy, the mk_id(db_fp,"Tire") is puzzling me |
| 12:27.51 | Alexandrus | i thought objects are created in ged_tire... |
| 12:28.27 | Alexandrus | or id=title |
| 12:38.15 | brlcad | mk_id sets the title |
| 12:38.21 | Alexandrus | :) |
| 12:42.37 | Alexandrus | hmm..slight size differenz through mk_id... |
| 12:42.43 | Alexandrus | but seperation seems to work |
| 13:16.55 | Alexandrus | may someone answer me, why |
| 13:16.59 | Alexandrus | struct bu_vls coil_type; |
| 13:17.09 | Alexandrus | works in one file, but gives a "missing ; before type" in another file |
| 13:17.31 | starseeker | syntax error elsewhere in the file |
| 13:17.49 | Alexandrus | i moved it...no change |
| 13:17.55 | Alexandrus | but where? |
| 13:17.59 | Alexandrus | i made i direct copy/paste.. |
| 13:18.17 | starseeker | can you post your file? http://pastebin.org/ |
| 13:18.35 | Alexandrus | http://pastebin.org/411967 |
| 13:18.43 | Alexandrus | it gives 102 errors... |
| 13:20.02 | Alexandrus | doesn't like fastf_t either |
| 13:20.17 | Alexandrus | suddenly this is supposed to be an expression.. |
| 13:20.33 | starseeker | what is the line number associated with that error? |
| 13:20.43 | starseeker | the first oen |
| 13:20.44 | Alexandrus | oh i am trying to find that out |
| 13:20.45 | starseeker | one |
| 13:20.49 | Alexandrus | damn vc does not show.. |
| 13:20.55 | Alexandrus | 424 |
| 13:21.16 | Alexandrus | 421..423 |
| 13:21.19 | Alexandrus | for struct |
| 13:21.30 | Alexandrus | i am suspecting a compiler setting |
| 13:21.53 | starseeker | try putting the struct bu_vls delcarations before GED_CHECK_DATABASE_OPEN once... |
| 13:21.59 | starseeker | unlikely, but maybe... |
| 13:22.04 | Alexandrus | doesn't work.. |
| 13:22.08 | Alexandrus | not enough |
| 13:22.11 | Alexandrus | there is a more primary error |
| 13:22.22 | Alexandrus | you know, i just copied the whole stuff from another file |
| 13:22.25 | Alexandrus | where it was working fine |
| 13:22.32 | Alexandrus | (coil.c from coil) |
| 13:22.34 | starseeker | uh |
| 13:22.37 | Alexandrus | (to coil.c in libged) |
| 13:22.56 | Alexandrus | i could understand a missing #include |
| 13:23.18 | Alexandrus | but i copied these too |
| 13:24.41 | Alexandrus | hmm, since when is he allergic to variable declarations inside a procedure? |
| 13:24.44 | starseeker | I'd say its something to do with Windows building specifically - that file builds here on the Mac |
| 13:24.58 | Alexandrus | compiler setting i guess.. |
| 13:25.06 | Alexandrus | i moved the int's too |
| 13:25.09 | Alexandrus | now its building here too |
| 13:25.27 | Alexandrus | another question: who wrote coil.c? |
| 13:25.34 | starseeker | I did |
| 13:25.40 | ``Erik | starseeker: re splitting stuff up... they don't have much to do with raytracing, but they do have to do with each primitive... it's already difficult enough to know what all to implement to make a primitive, splitting that up further would be... I can't think of polite words... :D |
| 13:26.07 | starseeker | ``Erik: <snort> Nothing decent docs couldn't fix |
| 13:26.14 | ``Erik | docawhat? |
| 13:26.22 | starseeker | sigh |
| 13:26.28 | starseeker | yeah, exactly :-P |
| 13:26.55 | starseeker | Alexandrus: so if the code sucks, it's my fault - was more or less an experiment with pipe autogeneration |
| 13:27.03 | ``Erik | actually, when I did metaballs, there was quite a bit of documentation, it was still an awful lot to figure out how to wire it in all correctly |
| 13:27.27 | ``Erik | even with docs, it's not a "jr dev" task, and splitting it up would make it worse :) |
| 13:27.47 | starseeker | ``Erik: not sure I agree |
| 13:27.50 | ``Erik | should probably go fix the xxx.c files eventually |
| 13:28.05 | Alexandrus | @starseeker: i am not a c coder...so it doesn't matter |
| 13:28.07 | starseeker | it's definitely not a "jr dev" task, I agree there |
| 13:28.31 | Alexandrus | @starseeker: have you made any attemp for screw threads? |
| 13:28.41 | ``Erik | well, you're arguing to move away from OO to functional... fundamentally... |
| 13:29.10 | starseeker | ``Erik: uh... how so? |
| 13:29.15 | starseeker | Alexandrus: kinda |
| 13:29.35 | starseeker | Alexandrus: you can get a sort-of threaded look with a pipe subtracted from an rcc... |
| 13:29.42 | starseeker | letssee... |
| 13:30.14 | starseeker | http://brlcad.org/~starseeker/thread_test.png |
| 13:30.20 | ``Erik | what we have now is basically a big honkin' defgeneric set with a slew of defclass and defmethod stuff... clos style... removing defmethod in favor of choosing defun would kinda be the seperation into functional libraries |
| 13:31.03 | Alexandrus | very cool... |
| 13:31.32 | Alexandrus | but i guess, its still a bit different from a screw thread |
| 13:31.35 | Alexandrus | as far as i know |
| 13:31.39 | ``Erik | different mode of thinkin', it's "this is a sph, ergo sph/sph.c" vs "I want to tesselate a sphere, ergo libgeom/tesselate.c" |
| 13:31.42 | starseeker | Alexandrus: doesn't give you fine control over the shape of the thread though - for that we'd need a general sweep primitive |
| 13:32.06 | starseeker | ``Erik: yeah, true |
| 13:32.43 | Alexandrus | ok...now i have to check, why i don't get the params in mged/coil |
| 13:32.54 | Alexandrus | (busy) |
| 13:33.02 | ``Erik | Alexandrus: for threading, BoT's might be the ... least bad approach right now |
| 13:33.23 | Alexandrus | BoT's? |
| 13:33.28 | ``Erik | triangles |
| 13:33.36 | starseeker | winces |
| 13:33.47 | Alexandrus | öh.. |
| 13:33.50 | Alexandrus | and then used like pipes? |
| 13:34.07 | starseeker | basically, with enough small triangles you can approximate anything |
| 13:34.07 | Alexandrus | treeangles have no volume...i wonder.. |
| 13:34.17 | Alexandrus | hahaha |
| 13:34.19 | starseeker | closed mesh |
| 13:34.28 | Alexandrus | ok...of course |
| 13:34.35 | Alexandrus | but i guess, i won't type it by hand |
| 13:35.50 | Alexandrus | something like a triangle pipe should work:P |
| 13:35.58 | ``Erik | obviously not, but if you can get a mesh reperesentation of a threading and import it, you can scale, dup, etc :/ |
| 13:36.35 | Alexandrus | it won't have volume |
| 13:36.42 | ``Erik | providing a real accurate geometric representation of a threaded bolt or screw would require capabiltities we're not quite at yet... |
| 13:36.50 | ``Erik | the way we use meshes, it would |
| 13:37.03 | Alexandrus | hmm |
| 13:37.08 | Alexandrus | whats the difficulty? |
| 13:37.19 | ``Erik | our BoT raytracer associates pairs and calls the intermediate line solid |
| 13:37.27 | ``Erik | unless you enable 'plate' mode or something |
| 13:37.47 | ``Erik | so when there's an unmatched intersection, we actually log it as an error |
| 13:38.42 | ``Erik | the difficulty is that we have like 6 people and like 200 manyears of work scheduled... :D |
| 13:39.12 | Alexandrus | this calls for genius ideas:P |
| 13:39.44 | starseeker | heh - genius ideas tend to make more work :-P (which is not to discourage them, of course) |
| 13:40.06 | ``Erik | well, our mgmt would go through great difficulty to discourage them, but *shrug* |
| 13:40.12 | starseeker | we have to clean up our existing libs because we can't simply break out from under our client software |
| 13:41.09 | ``Erik | (and the paid developers are under pressure to do 'good stuff' where the existance of a bolt isn't even necessary, much less the threading on one... and I gotz ta get paid, son!) |
| 13:41.30 | Alexandrus | you get paid? |
| 13:41.33 | ``Erik | first class nurbs are gonna be awesome |
| 13:41.33 | ``Erik | yes |
| 13:41.40 | Alexandrus | by whom? |
| 13:41.59 | ``Erik | I'm a civilian employee of the US army |
| 13:42.10 | Alexandrus | ah, so it is still an army project |
| 13:42.16 | Alexandrus | i thought this was 20 years ago |
| 13:42.22 | starseeker | it was |
| 13:42.40 | starseeker | long development history |
| 13:42.40 | ``Erik | yes, most of the paid devs are still budgeted via the army in some fashion, either as a civvy employee or contractor |
| 13:43.11 | starseeker | we need more ooo-shiny goodness before anyone else is likely to pony up cash for new features... |
| 13:43.30 | ``Erik | I think the only paid dev for BRL-CAD that isn't through USA/DA is from Germany's MoD |
| 13:43.51 | ``Erik | excluding the former GSoC'ers |
| 13:44.10 | Alexandrus | i am german... |
| 13:44.23 | Alexandrus | (ok, you noticed of course i am not american*G*) |
| 13:45.19 | starseeker | Alexandrus: heh building your resume to apply to the MoD for a job? :-P |
| 13:45.32 | Alexandrus | i am physicist |
| 13:45.49 | starseeker | did physics undergraduate degree |
| 13:46.08 | ``Erik | if you watch the commit logs, a lot of our windows fixes come from a Deutch professor who has some MoD assocation |
| 13:46.17 | ``Erik | one of my undergrad minors was physics, does that count? :D |
| 13:46.24 | Alexandrus | i am still wondering, what MoD stands for |
| 13:46.30 | ``Erik | ministry of defense |
| 13:46.39 | Alexandrus | ah |
| 13:46.57 | Alexandrus | so its propably Verteidigungsministerium here:) |
| 13:47.06 | ``Erik | mebbe our german friends were trying to translate things for us and thought the british name was right |
| 13:47.19 | ``Erik | we call it DoD here, department of defense |
| 13:47.46 | Alexandrus | usual germans:P |
| 13:47.52 | Alexandrus | translate everything into english |
| 13:47.56 | Alexandrus | even city names |
| 13:48.04 | ``Erik | nice guys |
| 13:48.11 | ``Erik | great cars! :D *pets his bmw m3* |
| 13:48.32 | Alexandrus | hehehe |
| 13:48.40 | Alexandrus | i have no car, but i live in München |
| 13:48.51 | Alexandrus | bicylce is enough here |
| 13:49.02 | ``Erik | my mother is from stuttgart, my father is over half german from a group that migrated in the 1700's... it's all good stuff :D |
| 13:49.39 | Alexandrus | ha, next you can buy small quadcopters...hahahaha |
| 13:49.50 | Alexandrus | at least if i get the calculations right |
| 13:50.03 | ``Erik | I'm not willing to bicycle 40km on roads with no shoulders and idiots who speed wayyyy too much |
| 13:50.10 | ``Erik | not even a motorcycle, so'z a car it is |
| 13:50.25 | Alexandrus | i only bicycle in forests/parks |
| 13:50.26 | ``Erik | wish I could use a bicycle, I'd be in much better shape O.o |
| 13:50.31 | Alexandrus | i never touch the street |
| 13:51.16 | ``Erik | Maloeran there is from montreal, he used to bicycle everywhere, someone opened a car door in front of him in montreal, poor boy had to get stitches |
| 13:51.33 | Alexandrus | uuuh |
| 13:51.42 | Alexandrus | but you can get hurt everywhere |
| 13:51.47 | Alexandrus | even in the forest |
| 13:52.09 | ``Erik | ja, I rolled my previous m3 in a narrow winding road out in the woods with no traffic... :D |
| 13:52.25 | ``Erik | that tree jumped out of nowhere, honest |
| 13:52.37 | Alexandrus | scotty's fault |
| 13:52.49 | ``Erik | (so I went and bought another m3, and drive like a wuss) |
| 13:54.12 | Alexandrus | who cares, one can prove ones manhood somewhere else |
| 13:54.22 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (~Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 13:54.39 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (~Me@emc/developer/SWPadnos) |
| 13:54.51 | ``Erik | hm, stupid driving here is more a sign of stupid than manhood, I think |
| 13:55.12 | Alexandrus | manhood has something stupid about itself:P |
| 13:55.34 | ``Erik | and even my wuss driving makes poor starseeker make weird noises |
| 13:55.57 | Alexandrus | hahaha |
| 13:56.07 | ``Erik | (I like corners. A lot.) |
| 13:56.36 | Alexandrus | <- is compiling mged... |
| 13:56.40 | Alexandrus | curious if this works |
| 13:56.53 | ``Erik | and going from 1.0 to 1.41 g's is unusual for some, I guess *shrug* |
| 13:57.03 | Alexandrus | one thing i have to solve: mged is not terminating properly on windows |
| 13:57.24 | Alexandrus | 1.41g is little |
| 13:57.31 | ``Erik | you mean aside from windows crashing out from under you? |
| 13:58.54 | starseeker | <snort> so ``Erik if you're a wuss driver what's my driving style? |
| 13:59.16 | ``Erik | mebbe me thinking is wrong... it is early, and I called in sick today, feeling ungood... but when you press a lateral G, you're reducing direct G, right? so total force vector is sqrt(1.0*lateral), so 1.0 lateral (I think the m3 gets .98 on good tires?) is 1.414ish? |
| 14:00.38 | Alexandrus | i guess we are talking about different things |
| 14:00.48 | Alexandrus | for me g is ~ 9.81m/s^2 |
| 14:01.01 | ``Erik | yes |
| 14:01.29 | Alexandrus | coil is implemented in mged and working... |
| 14:01.56 | ``Erik | most passenger cars cannot acchieve more than 0.6 lateral G (force perpendicular to the earths pull) |
| 14:02.40 | ``Erik | I just saw a commercial the other day where bridgestone was claiming that they'd just broken the record and had the first street legal tire capable of more than 1 lateral G |
| 14:02.45 | Alexandrus | hmm, there are cars who can go 0..100km/h in <4secs |
| 14:02.56 | Alexandrus | guessing linear accelarion |
| 14:03.02 | starseeker | Alexandrus: awesome! |
| 14:03.09 | ``Erik | there are, lateral G is about skidpad |
| 14:03.11 | ``Erik | turning |
| 14:03.11 | starseeker | Alexandrus: you can feed it parameters and all? |
| 14:03.12 | Alexandrus | int(a,t)=360m/s |
| 14:03.34 | Alexandrus | @starseeker: its equal to the command line |
| 14:03.41 | Alexandrus | i can pick a "nam" |
| 14:03.42 | starseeker | Alexandrus: can you submit a patch to sourceforge? |
| 14:03.42 | Alexandrus | name |
| 14:03.48 | ``Erik | he may've been upset at my acceleration, too, but I was enjoying it too much to notice :D |
| 14:04.08 | ``Erik | was stuck with a 328xi as a loaner when my car was in the shop, so getting my m3 back was blissful :) |
| 14:04.09 | Alexandrus | ok, i am creating a patch |
| 14:04.15 | Alexandrus | but before you apply it...make a backup... |
| 14:05.13 | ``Erik | we use svn, so backups are 'free'... and patch has an undo capability... we're good :D |
| 14:06.10 | Alexandrus | moving brlcadinstall away.. |
| 14:06.12 | ``Erik | of your mod was to svn trunk and you generated the patch using "svn diff", that'd actually be the best |
| 14:06.24 | Alexandrus | (this must be fixed in the windows pack, automatic creation of these folders) |
| 14:07.18 | Alexandrus | its Tortoise "Create Patch" |
| 14:07.22 | Alexandrus | i hope this works for you |
| 14:08.22 | ``Erik | that's "svn patch" for windows, yes |
| 14:08.29 | ``Erik | er, svn diff |
| 14:09.10 | Alexandrus | i added the new misc/win32-msvc9 |
| 14:09.24 | Alexandrus | it will take more updates to actually work...but for now |
| 14:11.38 | Alexandrus | ok, where exactly do i upload the patch? |
| 14:13.14 | ``Erik | at http://sf.net/projects/brlcad/ |
| 14:13.27 | ``Erik | look for teh bug report tracker, one of the tabs will be 'patches' |
| 14:13.53 | Alexandrus | ok.. |
| 14:14.00 | Alexandrus | restores his account |
| 14:14.22 | ``Erik | (we had a friend from, uh, I think argentina that created and msvc9 folder, not sure why it was removed... mebbe lack of maintainance |
| 14:14.25 | ``Erik | ) |
| 14:14.30 | *** join/#brlcad Stattrav (~Stattrav@117.192.159.154) |
| 14:18.40 | Alexandrus | the patch has 541 kb... |
| 14:18.51 | Alexandrus | guess i have to send msvc for another cleanup |
| 14:27.46 | ``Erik | probably means it tried to auto-format a lot of stuff |
| 14:28.06 | Alexandrus | no, it left over lots of folders with crap |
| 14:29.22 | starseeker | sounds like windows |
| 14:29.31 | Alexandrus | sounds like msvc... |
| 14:29.39 | Alexandrus | (windows^2) |
| 14:36.14 | ``Erik | got a good dozen crashes of msvc yesterday trying to get crap to compile :( |
| 14:36.57 | Alexandrus | mine didn't crash |
| 14:37.07 | Alexandrus | but it took a while to get it to compile |
| 14:37.45 | ``Erik | it's... not a small package, there's a lot of work in there :D |
| 14:38.53 | ``Erik | http://www.ohloh.net/p/brlcad look at the effort table |
| 14:40.14 | Alexandrus | hahahaha... |
| 14:40.18 | Alexandrus | how did they measure that? |
| 14:40.34 | ``Erik | I think they use the COCOMO2 metrics |
| 14:41.15 | Alexandrus | oh hell.. |
| 14:41.28 | ``Erik | but it is 31 years of development, with many many developers, some VERY good (like, >10x mortal) |
| 14:41.34 | Alexandrus | i think this windows patch is far too big even without useless folders |
| 14:41.36 | Alexandrus | its 2,6Mb.. |
| 14:42.17 | ``Erik | I presume mostly generated? is it small enough that you can communicate to someone via irc? |
| 14:42.44 | ``Erik | not me, since I called in sick and have no windows machines at home, but mebbe starseeker? :D |
| 14:42.48 | ``Erik | *Duck* |
| 14:43.10 | Alexandrus | i can host it |
| 14:45.11 | Alexandrus | http://kccm.dnsalias.org:8080/coilpatch.patch |
| 14:45.19 | Alexandrus | upload should be fast enough... |
| 14:47.03 | Alexandrus | i guess some work has to be done for linux machines too |
| 14:47.14 | Alexandrus | because i am not sure, if the added files are in the makefiles allready |
| 14:47.25 | Alexandrus | (didn't have a look, used the msvc project files) |
| 14:55.45 | starseeker | Alexandrus: can you post just a patch with coil.c and changes to mged? |
| 14:55.46 | Alexandrus | i compressed it |
| 14:55.58 | Alexandrus | and added it in the usual patch list |
| 14:56.06 | starseeker | thanks :-) |
| 14:56.30 | Alexandrus | i marked it as untested |
| 14:56.45 | starseeker | ah, I see it |
| 14:57.07 | Alexandrus | you could help me adding some help for example |
| 14:57.26 | Alexandrus | i don't understand all params |
| 14:58.56 | Alexandrus | i wonder, did setup.c compile for you? i had to add struct bu_vls vls; |
| 15:00.18 | brlcad | Alexandrus: thanks for the patch! |
| 15:00.26 | ``Erik | whoa, a 3 move win against the 'puter in chess... *flex* |
| 15:00.36 | brlcad | I haven't responded to the talk organizer yet. |
| 15:00.44 | brlcad | oops, ww |
| 15:01.28 | brlcad | Alexandrus: for future reference, each patch submission to the patches tracker should be for just one change/feature -- so that should have been one submission for coil, and a separate for msvc9 |
| 15:01.39 | Alexandrus | ok |
| 15:01.40 | Alexandrus | noted |
| 15:02.01 | brlcad | that way the discussion threads are clear and it doesn't complicate one feature if there is a problem with the other |
| 15:03.13 | Alexandrus | hmm, there aren't many patches in the last two years |
| 15:03.25 | Alexandrus | guess most of the time you work alone |
| 15:03.31 | brlcad | Alexandrus: you should also review your .patch file before submitting to make sure it doesn't contain things you didn't intend |
| 15:03.54 | ``Erik | are you looking at open patches only? there should be a reasonable fistful int eh closed category |
| 15:04.05 | Alexandrus | "any" |
| 15:04.06 | brlcad | aren't many patches because after someone submits a couple patches, we can generally grant them commit access |
| 15:04.48 | ``Erik | hm, I thought the gsoc kids had provided a reasonably impressive number for the last couple years *shrug* |
| 15:04.49 | Alexandrus | @brlcad: you certainly found something which does look unintended |
| 15:07.07 | Alexandrus | at the moment i wonder, if the changes mess everything up |
| 15:07.09 | brlcad | yeah -- potential unintended change example: misc/nsis/VERSION.txt was changed with version vars, svn:ignore on win32_msvc9 in misc/ dir, all your .user build files, an msvc9 'rd' file, tkhtml3 changes .... |
| 15:07.17 | brlcad | :) |
| 15:07.21 | brlcad | quite a few things |
| 15:07.37 | Alexandrus | how does one remove them? |
| 15:07.51 | brlcad | first time using svn diff, yes? |
| 15:07.57 | Alexandrus | yes |
| 15:08.11 | brlcad | you can run "svn status" to see what files are changed |
| 15:08.11 | Alexandrus | i used it before, but without any "care" like this |
| 15:08.22 | brlcad | files and directories |
| 15:08.41 | brlcad | if a directory is listed as changed, it's because you modified a property (like svn:ignore) |
| 15:09.01 | brlcad | if a file is changed, you can inspect it with "svn diff path/to/file" |
| 15:09.13 | ``Erik | basically, you generate a file of changes.. read through to make sure those're the changes you wish to impose... |
| 15:10.11 | brlcad | you can get subsets of a patch, like just the coil changes by selectively specifying what you intended to change -- example: svn status include src/shapes src/mged src/libged |
| 15:10.16 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:10.23 | brlcad | review the diff, if it looks good, then: I haven't responded to the talk organizer yet. |
| 15:10.26 | brlcad | bah |
| 15:10.37 | brlcad | svn diff include src/shapes src/mged src/libged > coil.patch |
| 15:10.40 | ``Erik | (or select the files in explorer before clicking the tortoise diff) |
| 15:10.46 | brlcad | right |
| 15:10.58 | brlcad | similar set of changes for tortoise |
| 15:21.08 | Alexandrus | i hate tortoise |
| 15:21.14 | Alexandrus | buggy crap |
| 15:23.26 | starseeker | can anyone else take a look at distcheck and togl? I see the error but I'm not immediately clear what to do about it |
| 15:32.57 | Alexandrus | hmm |
| 15:33.01 | Alexandrus | --- filename |
| 15:33.02 | Alexandrus | +++ filename |
| 15:33.06 | Alexandrus | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:33.11 | Alexandrus | error? |
| 15:33.29 | brlcad | no |
| 15:33.35 | Alexandrus | why twice? |
| 15:33.55 | brlcad | those are just format markers for the patch format |
| 15:34.14 | brlcad | saying the --- lines are old and the +++ lines are new |
| 15:34.34 | brlcad | revision zero is a file you've marked to be added |
| 15:34.40 | Alexandrus | http://kccm.dnsalias.org:8080/msvc9patch.rar |
| 15:34.46 | Alexandrus | new patch file for msvc9 only |
| 15:34.52 | Alexandrus | would like to know your opinion |
| 15:35.02 | brlcad | (so be careful to make sure you're revision 0's are something you intended to add, otherwise you need to tell svn to "forget" them) |
| 15:35.28 | Alexandrus | i cleaned up a little more this time |
| 15:35.35 | Alexandrus | only files i wish to add in the folder this time |
| 15:35.38 | Alexandrus | but maybe there is more |
| 15:37.06 | starseeker | Alexandrus: did you also do one for shapes/mged/libged dirs? |
| 15:37.16 | Alexandrus | i am doing them now |
| 15:37.19 | Alexandrus | just checking |
| 15:37.21 | starseeker | cool :-) |
| 15:37.45 | brlcad | brlcad.ncb shouldn't be in there |
| 15:37.45 | starseeker | arrrrrrgh - why, togl, why?? |
| 15:37.57 | brlcad | brlcad.suo |
| 15:38.01 | brlcad | UpgradeLog.XML |
| 15:38.13 | brlcad | ... might want to check the patch file one more time :) |
| 15:38.15 | Alexandrus | ah, more filtering |
| 15:38.22 | brlcad | you probably added an entire directory |
| 15:38.28 | Alexandrus | its so damn long this win thing |
| 15:38.36 | Alexandrus | the other one is only four files |
| 15:38.45 | brlcad | you should add files individually (to svn), so your svn diff is only intentional additions |
| 15:38.56 | Alexandrus | its a couple of hundred |
| 15:39.02 | Alexandrus | for each folder! |
| 15:39.04 | brlcad | yep |
| 15:39.24 | brlcad | there's some 'd' file in your patch |
| 15:39.58 | starseeker | Alexandrus: commiting something big like that is always a fair bit of work |
| 15:40.27 | brlcad | and msvc doesn't make it easy with all the junk it leaves |
| 15:40.32 | Alexandrus | not really |
| 15:40.34 | Alexandrus | fpc has delp |
| 15:40.37 | Alexandrus | which removes everything |
| 15:40.44 | Alexandrus | guess i have to write a script |
| 15:41.46 | brlcad | if you cleaned out your studio build beforehand, it'd clean things up too |
| 15:41.55 | brlcad | problem is you added a whole tree to svn |
| 15:42.12 | brlcad | while junk was there.. :) |
| 15:42.21 | Alexandrus | i reverted that |
| 15:42.23 | Alexandrus | cleaned up again |
| 15:42.27 | Alexandrus | still stuff left |
| 15:42.31 | brlcad | ah, yeah |
| 15:42.51 | brlcad | some files you want, but don't belong in svn |
| 15:43.04 | Alexandrus | which are? |
| 15:43.06 | brlcad | like the brlcad.ncb/suo files .. those have your studio preferences |
| 15:43.12 | brlcad | *personal* preference |
| 15:43.41 | brlcad | UpgradeLog was just produced when you opened the v8 files |
| 15:43.49 | brlcad | for your inspection |
| 15:43.54 | Alexandrus | http://kccm.dnsalias.org:8080/coilpatch.patch |
| 15:43.55 | brlcad | no idea what that 'd' file is |
| 15:45.07 | brlcad | hehe, coil patch is ALMOST right |
| 15:45.13 | Alexandrus | rd doesn't make anymore sense:P |
| 15:45.17 | Alexandrus | ALMOST:P |
| 15:45.21 | Alexandrus | now i am curious*G* |
| 15:45.24 | brlcad | it included changes to tire.c |
| 15:45.26 | Alexandrus | 4 files... |
| 15:45.36 | Alexandrus | which tire.c? |
| 15:45.41 | brlcad | src/shapes/tire.c |
| 15:45.55 | Alexandrus | hah...true |
| 15:45.57 | brlcad | looks like a change in indentation |
| 15:46.05 | Alexandrus | yes, i disliked that |
| 15:46.32 | Alexandrus | i wonder why i added that |
| 15:46.36 | Alexandrus | :P |
| 15:47.19 | Alexandrus | http://kccm.dnsalias.org:8080/coilpatch.patch |
| 15:47.30 | Alexandrus | fights with the win32 folder |
| 15:47.54 | Alexandrus | ncb is personal settings? |
| 15:48.25 | brlcad | ncb is class view browsing, it's an index of symbols |
| 15:48.50 | Alexandrus | .user files.. |
| 15:48.52 | Alexandrus | (delete) |
| 15:49.00 | Alexandrus | (no, i haven't added it at the moment |
| 15:54.21 | Alexandrus | http://kccm.dnsalias.org:8080/msvc9patch.rar |
| 15:54.37 | Alexandrus | it SHOULD contain .vcproj only |
| 15:55.05 | Alexandrus | (and one makefile) |
| 15:58.05 | Alexandrus | ok, i am off... |
| 15:58.22 | Alexandrus | bye |
| 16:09.17 | psilva_ | brlcad: i should be going, but i burned my trip miles on a ps3 event in santa clara :( |
| 16:09.34 | psilva_ | but check out the stereo UI at our booth heh |
| 16:27.38 | CIA-93 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r39879 10/brlcad/trunk/ (configure.ac src/adrt/Makefile.am src/other/Makefile.am): Enough. Togl isn't being used right now - reduce it to being just an EXTRA_DIST entry in src/other. Revisit when it can be built successfully cross-platform |
| 16:28.31 | brlcad | psilva_: so you're not going then? that sucks :) |
| 16:28.42 | starseeker | brlcad: that seems to do it except for some *bomb.log files in regress |
| 16:28.43 | brlcad | but yeah, I'll go check it out |
| 16:29.03 | brlcad | starseeker: hm, what crashed? |
| 16:29.13 | starseeker | looks like mostly gqa related stuff |
| 16:30.06 | brlcad | starseeker: you did noticed the "xyes__disabled__" in configure.ac yes? |
| 16:30.10 | brlcad | I'd already disabled togl |
| 16:30.17 | brlcad | that might have been part of your frustration |
| 16:30.28 | starseeker | yes, but that wasn't stopping it from trying to put generated files where it shouldn't |
| 16:30.35 | starseeker | togl_ws.h for one |
| 16:30.37 | brlcad | huh |
| 16:30.38 | brlcad | k |
| 16:30.47 | starseeker | I wasn't trying to turn it on :-P |
| 16:32.10 | starseeker | I'm not entirely clear what the fix should be - could be any of several things, and not worth fooling with now |
| 16:33.53 | starseeker | sets up a regress in a non-distcheck build... |
| 16:36.51 | brlcad | starseeker: here's a script I use during dist, to make sure a variety of build options work: http://brlcad.org/tmp/make.sh |
| 16:36.59 | brlcad | feel free to use, extend, ignore |
| 16:37.22 | ``Erik | should that be in sh/ or misc/? |
| 16:37.49 | brlcad | not without some improvements, I'd think |
| 16:38.08 | starseeker | brlcad: ah, great - thanks :-) |
| 16:38.12 | brlcad | assumes you have a 64-bit platform, assumes out-of-dir build one level embedded |
| 16:38.40 | ``Erik | but if it's not in the repo, then no one else can improve it... :D |
| 16:38.48 | ``Erik | extra_dist doesn't hurt anything |
| 16:39.13 | brlcad | meh |
| 16:39.26 | ``Erik | <-- is annoyed, timed a fleet op slightly wrong, landed the recyclers a couple seconds late :/ |
| 16:39.44 | brlcad | heh |
| 16:39.48 | brlcad | still playing AE? |
| 16:39.51 | ``Erik | yes |
| 16:40.12 | ``Erik | acting as a cap killer in the #1 guild, *shrug* |
| 16:40.28 | brlcad | I finally let it go last year, could have snarfed all my goods |
| 16:40.41 | ``Erik | meh, not enough and too far away :D |
| 16:41.22 | ``Erik | the bits where it's fun are few and far between, I've almost quite a few times, but I'm stubborn |
| 16:41.41 | brlcad | was quite fortified by the end, attacks were rare and never profitable |
| 16:42.09 | starseeker | brlcad: so the main thing for that script would be to make it platform aware? |
| 16:42.10 | brlcad | some got pissed and would squat just trying to break even |
| 16:42.21 | brlcad | starseeker: you can do whatever you want to that script |
| 16:42.40 | starseeker | is looking to see what would be needed for inclusion in-tree |
| 16:42.46 | brlcad | I whipped it up in like 5 minutes just for quick sanity checking |
| 16:42.49 | ``Erik | ft/hb spawns are good for breaking that, had someone lose a LOT of credits trying to remove me from a strategic sector... thinking about returning the favor |
| 16:43.31 | ``Erik | add the script to the repo, mention that it could be used to aid the release process, see where it goes... |
| 16:43.46 | brlcad | best was a player way more powerful, used a decent strategy but still got lazy and they ended up at more than a 200k loss |
| 16:43.52 | brlcad | he was quite pissed |
| 16:44.23 | ``Erik | mebbe rob'll add it into his "smoke test" stuff (didja know he used to work at poptop? he was involved in tropoco... neat stuff) |
| 16:45.10 | ``Erik | victor took a wrong turn, we ended up at mcgregors, got a couple bears in rob and he got comfortable and talking :D |
| 16:45.13 | brlcad | that script would be more interesting if it were spread across a compilation farm of different OS platforms |
| 16:45.32 | ``Erik | couple beers, even |
| 16:45.45 | brlcad | Go Bears! |
| 16:45.50 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:46.10 | ``Erik | the sports-ball team where I went to school were called the bears O.o had a 10' bear statue in the middle of the campus |
| 16:47.11 | ``Erik | http://www.missouristatebears.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=13800&SPID=6495&SPSID=59342 |
| 16:49.26 | ``Erik | http://computerscience.missouristate.edu/ has a pic of where I spent most of my time O.o |
| 16:50.12 | brlcad | where're the blackjack tables |
| 16:50.14 | brlcad | and hookers? |
| 16:51.13 | ``Erik | north of campus, on kearny street |
| 16:51.53 | *** join/#brlcad willdye (~willdye@162.40.127.30) |
| 16:53.16 | ``Erik | heh, http://brlcad.org/~erik/vollmar.mp3 was written about one of my profs by a dude in israel |
| 16:53.43 | ``Erik | about the dude in the front row wearing khaki pants http://computerscience.missouristate.edu/4581.htm |
| 16:54.25 | ``Erik | huh, jamil is still there, nifty |
| 16:55.20 | *** join/#brlcad akafubu (~akafubu@unaffiliated/akafubu) |
| 16:57.53 | *** join/#brlcad parigaudi (~quassel@pd95b7f5e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:19.21 | *** join/#brlcad Alexandrus (~nil@pD953DCB9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:19.24 | Alexandrus | re |
| 17:19.30 | Alexandrus | @brlcad: change seen |
| 17:19.40 | Alexandrus | but i am working on a simple compiling version for windows |
| 17:19.49 | Alexandrus | (hundreds of dependencies to check) |
| 17:53.55 | ``Erik | Alexandrus: if you can provide patches to the vcproj files, that'd be really awesome, if not, even just a "this bit over here is broken" would be useful, as I mentioned yesterday, it is not one of our primary platforms |
| 17:54.25 | Alexandrus | i am almost through getting all projects to compile in one run |
| 17:54.31 | ``Erik | <-- flexes up on the "run-on sentence" pedestal for that O.o |
| 17:56.15 | Alexandrus | little late to tell me, i ought not do it:P |
| 18:32.22 | ``Erik | pretty sure I toldja that windows is a third class citizen in our little world yesterday ;) thought you were firing up a mac.. |
| 18:38.18 | Alexandrus | stupid is, the mac isn't connected to the 30" monitor |
| 18:38.52 | Alexandrus | and you have to buy some stupid special adapter to get it running with it |
| 18:39.25 | Alexandrus | i am neutral |
| 18:40.17 | Alexandrus | and if this is done, windows compile will be rather simple |
| 18:40.43 | Alexandrus | its just...i think my predecessor compiled 5-6 times |
| 18:40.45 | Alexandrus | and then it worked |
| 18:47.10 | ``Erik | huh, you have an old adc monitor? |
| 18:47.18 | Alexandrus | ? |
| 18:47.21 | ``Erik | or is it a dual dvi? |
| 18:47.25 | Alexandrus | dual dvi |
| 18:47.41 | Alexandrus | mac's mini stuff doesn't allow more than 1920x1200 |
| 18:47.49 | ``Erik | yeah, single dvi |
| 18:48.20 | ``Erik | before that, apple used something called adc, "apply display connector", which was similar to ati's dual display connector with usb attached |
| 18:48.25 | ``Erik | usb and power |
| 18:49.42 | ``Erik | I think I got the winderz build down to 4 errors yesterday, before meetings |
| 18:50.16 | Alexandrus | mine is zero |
| 18:50.23 | ``Erik | awesome! |
| 18:50.35 | Alexandrus | hey, how could i have added the coil to mged without that?:P |
| 18:50.41 | Alexandrus | the problem is, if you clean up all the libs |
| 18:50.50 | ``Erik | mged is not the only final product... :D |
| 18:50.52 | Alexandrus | you get new errors, because the dependencies are not set properly |
| 18:51.06 | Alexandrus | mged is the interface i use:) |
| 18:51.10 | Alexandrus | so i am selfish here:) |
| 18:51.35 | ``Erik | ja, just noting |
| 18:52.13 | ``Erik | personally, I use the rt* and g-*/*-g family more than mged proper... and in the few cases where I do use mged, it's typically with the -c flag |
| 18:52.14 | Alexandrus | also, i am so noob... |
| 18:52.19 | Alexandrus | i am glad i got it running |
| 18:52.35 | ``Erik | that you go it running on windows is quite commendable |
| 18:52.42 | ``Erik | got |
| 18:53.26 | ``Erik | we do have quite a bit of documentation, but things have changed since the docs were originally written |
| 18:53.28 | Alexandrus | i wonder, how do you manage dependencies? |
| 18:53.59 | ``Erik | on *nix, it's an issue of ordering, and the DEP list in the makefile.am files |
| 18:54.07 | Alexandrus | ah |
| 18:54.22 | Alexandrus | on msvc ist automatic, if you set the dependencies up when you write it |
| 18:54.29 | Alexandrus | i wish there were a tool reading the headers |
| 18:54.35 | Alexandrus | (includes) |
| 18:54.53 | Alexandrus | ha, pascal users have it simple here:P |
| 18:55.02 | ``Erik | most of the msvc stuff was one of our number "just making it work"... there was quite a bit of effort to remove explicit username directory stuff iirc |
| 18:55.57 | Alexandrus | username? |
| 18:56.25 | ``Erik | yes... hardcoded C:\Documents\Joeblow\Desktop\include and such |
| 18:56.35 | Alexandrus | its all relativ references |
| 18:56.40 | ``Erik | it is now |
| 18:56.41 | Alexandrus | but there was still some of this left |
| 18:56.49 | Alexandrus | for installer creation |
| 18:56.51 | Alexandrus | it failed here |
| 18:56.58 | Alexandrus | i will try to replace it |
| 18:57.13 | ``Erik | yes, I'm telling you the history so youc an understand the difficulties :) |
| 18:57.46 | Alexandrus | awfull:P |
| 18:57.54 | Alexandrus | absolut paths are a killer everywhere |
| 18:58.14 | ``Erik | help us fix it :D |
| 18:58.34 | Alexandrus | why do you think i am compiling this thing for 50th time today?:P |
| 18:58.44 | ``Erik | masochism? :D |
| 18:59.02 | Alexandrus | 90% masochism, 10% pride:P |
| 18:59.16 | Alexandrus | but coding c is sort of masochism too sometimes:P |
| 18:59.34 | Alexandrus | i really hope, if don't have to repeat that often |
| 18:59.36 | ``Erik | depends on the C... I've found it blissful at times, and horrible at others |
| 18:59.39 | Alexandrus | and only fix little changes |
| 18:59.42 | ``Erik | less bad than java |
| 18:59.52 | ``Erik | but i'm becoming quite the lisp addict |
| 18:59.59 | Alexandrus | i am so used to freepascal, which is so damn simple and readable |
| 19:00.14 | ``Erik | but pascal has odd scoping rules |
| 19:00.30 | Alexandrus | how is that? |
| 19:00.33 | Alexandrus | i find them rather logical |
| 19:00.34 | ``Erik | local scoping is... weird, so a lot of pascal was very global |
| 19:00.43 | Alexandrus | not any more |
| 19:01.07 | ``Erik | ah, I haven't looked at pascal since, uh, '95 or so? |
| 19:01.14 | Alexandrus | ok, you are out:P |
| 19:01.26 | Alexandrus | this were borland times..rofl.. |
| 19:01.32 | ``Erik | yes |
| 19:01.36 | ``Erik | turbopascal, etc |
| 19:01.44 | ``Erik | borland made a very nice C compiler into the late 90's |
| 19:01.46 | Alexandrus | its like asking you, if you use bc 3.1 :P |
| 19:01.56 | Alexandrus | yes, but do you still compile 16 bit?:P |
| 19:02.09 | ``Erik | heh, I had borland 5, that was 32 bit compiler... |
| 19:02.14 | ``Erik | and then I started using linux. |
| 19:02.18 | ``Erik | and then fbsd and osX. |
| 19:02.18 | Alexandrus | managed to make a complete compile from "nothing" without any error |
| 19:02.20 | ``Erik | :D |
| 19:02.44 | Alexandrus | 95...let me think, i had no computer back then |
| 19:02.48 | ``Erik | my use of dos/windows was very brief, I clung to my c128 until '96, and had linux installed in '96... |
| 19:05.32 | ``Erik | but I did have the misfortune of using msvc 1.0 (with MFC) in actually selling a bit of software... |
| 19:05.51 | Alexandrus | http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=407 |
| 19:05.58 | Alexandrus | this one i used 13 years ago |
| 19:06.04 | Alexandrus | so..97 |
| 19:06.08 | ``Erik | I spent $5 on a business license, made $5 off of one sale and said some... less than polite things about the notion of business |
| 19:06.09 | Alexandrus | i got it from my father |
| 19:06.25 | Alexandrus | $5..unbelievable cheap:P |
| 19:07.05 | ``Erik | neat |
| 19:07.14 | ``Erik | my first was a "coleco adam" in '83 |
| 19:08.08 | ``Erik | my father bought it, he was into computers (was admin of his works solaris machines, even!) and a geek (I was at the very first night that star wars opened!) |
| 19:08.36 | Alexandrus | my father was against computers |
| 19:09.01 | Alexandrus | i got his after he died.. |
| 19:09.14 | Alexandrus | (he used it to build the Olympia Halle in München) |
| 19:09.18 | ``Erik | heh, I just saw a photograph of some very stupid people boycotting computers because alan turing was homosexual :( |
| 19:09.34 | Alexandrus | na, his reasons were different |
| 19:09.55 | Alexandrus | also, stupid reason |
| 19:10.13 | Alexandrus | still there seem to be people with homophobia |
| 19:10.24 | ``Erik | especially in the US |
| 19:10.40 | ``Erik | http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/gaycomputer.jpg |
| 19:10.52 | Alexandrus | oh, i know this one |
| 19:11.04 | Alexandrus | i wonder how people get into this |
| 19:11.07 | *** join/#brlcad akafubu (~akafubu@unaffiliated/akafubu) |
| 19:11.10 | Alexandrus | they must be partial blind |
| 19:11.17 | ``Erik | or mostly stupid |
| 19:11.48 | Alexandrus | problem is, that even very bright people are capable of stupid ideas like this |
| 19:12.15 | Alexandrus | otherwise, usual christianity would change to a full deism |
| 19:12.17 | ``Erik | enough that cyanide laced apples rob humankind of some of the most brilliant minds :( |
| 19:12.46 | Alexandrus | huh |
| 19:14.04 | ``Erik | (turing, along with church, basically defined the princeples of fundamental computer science... turing ate a cyanide laced apple after years of prosecution and persecution) |
| 19:15.41 | Alexandrus | poor man |
| 19:18.32 | ``Erik | he's very well known among computer geeks in england and the US, he was the guy behind converting the polish crack of the enigma machine into the bombe machine... perhaps not a popular man in germany :) |
| 19:18.52 | Alexandrus | i know that:) |
| 19:18.57 | Alexandrus | oh he is |
| 19:19.09 | Alexandrus | more popular then Zuse |
| 19:19.18 | ``Erik | heh, with his mechanical computer? |
| 19:19.27 | Alexandrus | he build the first electrical one |
| 19:19.31 | Alexandrus | as a fact |
| 19:19.45 | Alexandrus | Z3 |
| 19:19.46 | ``Erik | it was electrical, but used relays and some sliding rods, right? |
| 19:20.03 | ``Erik | and was dismissed as an academic project, I think? |
| 19:20.34 | Alexandrus | dismissed...he build it in the middle of a war |
| 19:20.41 | Alexandrus | no one had the time to even dismiss it |
| 19:20.47 | ``Erik | I think the use of relays is what allows people to claim that the eniac was the first electronic computer |
| 19:21.04 | ``Erik | even though the z3 and some russian machine were doing computations before |
| 19:21.47 | ``Erik | oh, and the british machines that were so secret that they were never claimed until the 70's, and the history is completely gone |
| 19:21.49 | Alexandrus | now a discussion if relays are eletrical or mechanical:P |
| 19:22.07 | Alexandrus | still, you know, it was a real hobby project |
| 19:22.16 | Alexandrus | he got far without having any support |
| 19:22.29 | ``Erik | <england> we had solid state electronic machines first! but we have no records of anything, so, uh, believe us!" |
| 19:22.41 | ``Erik | secrecy sucks |
| 19:22.57 | ``Erik | I thought he was working on a university grant |
| 19:23.05 | ``Erik | zuze |
| 19:23.40 | Alexandrus | no... |
| 19:23.42 | ``Erik | (it's "zoo-zuh", right?) |
| 19:23.45 | Alexandrus | no support at all |
| 19:23.48 | Alexandrus | Zuse |
| 19:24.08 | ``Erik | but pronounced, phoenetically, zoo-zuh |
| 19:24.35 | ``Erik | americans have difficulty with... uh... everyones words ;) |
| 19:24.43 | Alexandrus | i know |
| 19:24.52 | Alexandrus | noticed last time someone tried to pronounce my name |
| 19:24.56 | Alexandrus | almost impossible |
| 19:25.41 | ``Erik | ah, "tzoo-zuh" |
| 19:25.55 | Alexandrus | lol |
| 19:26.24 | ``Erik | yeah, all relay based, where eniac was vacuum tube based |
| 19:26.53 | Alexandrus | z3 was binary, eniac was decimal |
| 19:26.58 | Alexandrus | we can go on like this:P |
| 19:27.23 | starseeker | Alexandrus: could you upload the coilpatch to sourceforge? I can't seem to get at that web address |
| 19:27.25 | Alexandrus | guess they are difficult to compare |
| 19:27.38 | ``Erik | reich air ministry, but deemed "not war important" on completion |
| 19:27.52 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:27.56 | Alexandrus | i told you, no support |
| 19:28.00 | Alexandrus | @starseeker: moment.. |
| 19:28.10 | ``Erik | even after eniac, the brlesc was "kings own" :D |
| 19:28.24 | ``Erik | (a weird form of hexadecimal, not straight binary) |
| 19:28.52 | ``Erik | the same brlesc, btw, that is the BRL in BRL-CAD O.o |
| 19:29.03 | Alexandrus | http://kccm.dnsalias.org:8080/coilpatch.patch |
| 19:29.11 | Alexandrus | @starseeker: this one should work |
| 19:29.19 | Alexandrus | but i am very curious if it messes something up |
| 19:29.23 | Alexandrus | i need to learn why |
| 19:29.29 | ``Erik | eniac was built for the org that BRL-CAD comes from :D |
| 19:29.47 | starseeker | Alexandrus: it might be our local filters |
| 19:29.58 | ``Erik | um, for an american perspective, mikes old page, http://ftp.arl.mil/ftp/historic-computers/ |
| 19:30.00 | starseeker | I konw I can get to the sourceforge patches ;-) |
| 19:30.01 | ``Erik | fun reading |
| 19:30.17 | Alexandrus | @starseeker:? |
| 19:30.23 | Alexandrus | there is certainly no virus in this |
| 19:30.39 | starseeker | I know - web filters, not virus filters |
| 19:30.48 | Alexandrus | @starseeker: what the hell?:P |
| 19:31.00 | Alexandrus | now, i don't know how i can send you this |
| 19:31.03 | Alexandrus | do you accept dcc? |
| 19:31.05 | starseeker | nevermind, I got it |
| 19:31.08 | ``Erik | wget from the boys box? |
| 19:31.20 | Alexandrus | i don't know, what kind of web filter is this? |
| 19:31.38 | Alexandrus | i am a bit curious about the future of "computers" |
| 19:31.51 | Alexandrus | i think, for any real improvement, there is a large change necessary |
| 19:32.08 | ``Erik | myspace. |
| 19:32.34 | ``Erik | the future of computers is annoying moving crap to kill your browser with absolutely no content. |
| 19:32.48 | starseeker | <snort> then the future is now |
| 19:32.49 | ``Erik | cuz your best 2000 friends absolutely need falling snowflakes. |
| 19:32.49 | ``Erik | :D |
| 19:33.11 | Alexandrus | i am talking about non neuman or harvard computers |
| 19:33.18 | starseeker | immediate future is probably gonna be solid state hard drives and lotsa cores on CPUs |
| 19:33.26 | ``Erik | hm, there've been some princeton arch machines |
| 19:33.27 | Alexandrus | which doesn't do a lot |
| 19:33.37 | ``Erik | but the harvard arch really seems.. dominant |
| 19:33.49 | Alexandrus | on mcs maybe:P |
| 19:33.56 | ``Erik | "mcs"? |
| 19:34.12 | Alexandrus | microcontrollers |
| 19:34.14 | ``Erik | lisp, for example, requires harvard arch... |
| 19:34.15 | ``Erik | yeahhh |
| 19:34.26 | ``Erik | I have some pic16f88's, those're weird to program |
| 19:34.38 | Alexandrus | i work with atmels mostly |
| 19:34.48 | Alexandrus | anything from 4 bit to 32 bit:P |
| 19:34.53 | ``Erik | I've been hearing a lot about them lately, I guess they took favor a couple years ago? |
| 19:35.05 | Alexandrus | they are really good and cheap |
| 19:35.07 | ``Erik | I'm working on getting an arm7 machine set up as my home server, replacing a p3 |
| 19:35.16 | Alexandrus | perfect documentation |
| 19:35.27 | ``Erik | juicier than pics |
| 19:35.48 | ``Erik | went to a robotics demo thing a couple months ago, atmels were all the rage |
| 19:36.32 | Alexandrus | you know they are good if you have a question |
| 19:38.29 | ``Erik | the picks were a buck each, and I never actually found a significant use for them *shrug* |
| 19:39.08 | Alexandrus | they are usefull for modell helicopters or planes |
| 19:39.20 | Alexandrus | for all kind of sensor data processing |
| 19:39.30 | Alexandrus | and stabilisation tasks |
| 19:39.31 | ``Erik | yeahhhh, about that time, I cut a finger pretty bad on an r/c plane, so I haven't been flying since |
| 19:40.20 | ``Erik | bad enough that 5 years later, I still have two seperate fingernails on one finger :) |
| 19:40.47 | Alexandrus | http://kccm.dnsalias.org:8080/msvc9patch.rar |
| 19:41.01 | Alexandrus | @''Erik: i am pretty sure this one just had very primitive control techniques |
| 19:41.17 | ``Erik | rar? damn, you hate us that much? :D |
| 19:41.24 | Alexandrus | what do you want? |
| 19:41.30 | Alexandrus | zip? |
| 19:41.45 | Alexandrus | 7z? |
| 19:41.45 | ``Erik | tar.gz or .zip are probably the best for starseeker to look at your code :D |
| 19:41.50 | ``Erik | (notice how I excuse myself0 |
| 19:42.17 | Alexandrus | http://kccm.dnsalias.org:8080/msvc9patch.zip |
| 19:42.37 | Alexandrus | who knows what you have to complain about .rar:P |
| 19:43.10 | ``Erik | well, the winderz machines we have access to are controlled by a corportate help desk, even installing firefox is a difficult struggle |
| 19:43.21 | Alexandrus | LOL... |
| 19:43.25 | ``Erik | so installing unrar.exe ... |
| 19:43.43 | Alexandrus | hell, a windows machine is easy to convince to just install anything:P |
| 19:43.57 | Alexandrus | (even things which blow the damn thing up) |
| 19:44.10 | Alexandrus | one of the advantages:P |
| 19:44.18 | ``Erik | "windows has detected that you have moved teh mouse. Please call helpdesk to ask permission to reboot." |
| 19:44.21 | ``Erik | :D |
| 19:44.40 | Alexandrus | kill the helpdesk service from repair console:P |
| 19:44.57 | ``Erik | install linux. :P |
| 19:45.04 | Alexandrus | or bsd |
| 19:45.13 | ``Erik | I'd prefer fbsd, myself... :) |
| 19:45.47 | starseeker | Alexandrus: I stuck your coil patch on sourceforge for you, but you'll need to put up the msvc9 patch there |
| 19:45.54 | ``Erik | but poor starseeker, who's the one who's actually going to look over your patch, he's a newb and thinks gentoo is good |
| 19:45.56 | ``Erik | :D |
| 19:46.14 | Alexandrus | @starseeker: its maybe better to check it first |
| 19:46.39 | starseeker | Alexandrus: don't worry - the patch tracker on sourceforge is intended for exactly this sort of thing |
| 19:46.43 | Alexandrus | i am newb too |
| 19:48.23 | ``Erik | this iphone chess app has a flaw... when ya score checkmate, it doesnt' give a new game option :( |
| 19:50.25 | Alexandrus | who the hell uses iphone:P |
| 19:50.43 | Alexandrus | ok, msvc9 files with current limitations are on the tracker |
| 19:50.51 | Alexandrus | (issues with this are described too) |
| 19:51.07 | Alexandrus | but one can compile and use brlcad |
| 19:59.22 | Alexandrus | 22:00..time for music:P |
| 20:04.06 | Alexandrus | hah, the last msvc9 patch was submittet as a .rar too:P |
| 20:04.40 | Alexandrus | (in 2008) |
| 20:18.09 | starseeker | brlcad: hmm. bo -i u c _DENSITIES file.txt is failing, it looks like because rt_binunif_export5 is getting a zero byte size from bip->count |
| 20:21.35 | starseeker | checks the size calculations... |
| 20:25.30 | *** join/#brlcad merzo (~merzo@204-106-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net) |
| 20:40.56 | CIA-93 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r39880 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/binunif/binunif.c: Revert r39310 - was resulting in num_items being set to zero when max_count is zero, which was breaking the bo command |
| 20:54.47 | psilva_ | brlcad: ya man, keeping missing out |
| 20:54.58 | psilva_ | brlcad: 3 yrs /me cries |
| 20:55.06 | psilva_ | er keep* |
| 20:56.52 | *** join/#brlcad Alexandrus (~nil@pD953DC64.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:57.02 | Alexandrus | re |
| 21:01.40 | starseeker | WOOT - distcheck passed |
| 21:01.44 | starseeker | (Redhat Linux) |
| 21:24.16 | Alexandrus | good night |
| 21:34.03 | CIA-93 | BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r39881 10/brlcad/trunk/ (15 files in 6 dirs): added Archer plugin interface to future bot-editor gui |
| 22:05.38 | *** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (~Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1) |
| 23:17.58 | *** join/#brlcad Yoshi47 (~jan@d72-39-53-79.home1.cgocable.net) |
| 23:22.25 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (~dtidrow@c-71-238-51-148.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
