| 00:00.13 | ``Erik | weren't able to get a contact to ask how it was modelled, etc? |
| 00:00.16 | starseeker | would think 25 megs of bots would be a finer mesh than that if it were bots... |
| 00:00.31 | starseeker | never tried - was never able to open an Inventor file til now |
| 00:00.46 | ``Erik | does it have insides? |
| 00:01.09 | ``Erik | a lot of those rods look pretty high poly-count |
| 00:03.01 | starseeker | hard to tell |
| 00:03.04 | starseeker | it's all grey |
| 00:04.16 | ``Erik | shades of grey, hard ot see edges in the finer stuff, but the big broad stuff has very obvious factization |
| 00:04.36 | starseeker | looks at the iv file in emacs |
| 00:04.45 | starseeker | see stuff about facets |
| 00:04.48 | starseeker | nuts |
| 00:05.55 | starseeker | hmm - note about an ObjToIv translation |
| 00:07.50 | starseeker | oh, well |
| 00:07.52 | starseeker | still cool |
| 00:18.55 | starseeker | ah! "Inventor files has surfaces of revolution" - per http://space.jpl.nasa.gov/faq.html |
| 00:49.23 | ``Erik | this android commercial kinda makes me think that google IS becoming skynet O.o "does your phone search for humans? droid does. does your phone destroy humans? droid does." |
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| 02:02.40 | ``Erik | *snrkt* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GNnftq744I |
| 02:03.01 | ``Erik | (also; http://www.kontraband.com/videos/21763/World-Of-Wifecraft/#show ) |
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| 03:11.54 | starseeker | anyone know if turbosquid has any interesting models? |
| 03:46.26 | starseeker | hmm... http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/3d_resources/3d-models-index.html |
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| 13:29.22 | starseeker | this looks like it might be cool, but I think it has to be re-assembled in Blender before it could be loaded in BRL-CAD: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/3d_resources/assets/iss-hi-res.html |
| 13:44.05 | Ralith | "This model is also available in its original Lightwave format, which preserves the configuration of the component parts." |
| 13:55.58 | starseeker | Ralith: yeah, if you have lightwave handy that might help |
| 13:56.25 | starseeker | blender can't seem to interpert the secene file |
| 13:57.23 | Ralith | oh, that's unfortunate |
| 13:57.26 | Ralith | nothing else out there reads lw? |
| 13:57.41 | starseeker | open source? I doubt it |
| 13:59.27 | Ralith | is it a relatively new iteration of the format? |
| 14:01.32 | starseeker | dunno |
| 14:01.58 | Ralith | would've thought someone'd've gotten on that by now, if not |
| 14:02.00 | starseeker | but it's pretty rare for an open source program to be better at opening 3d visualization files than blender |
| 14:02.15 | Ralith | true. |
| 14:02.32 | starseeker | takes another look... |
| 14:02.35 | Ralith | there might be a plugin. |
| 14:03.04 | Ralith | or one could find a lightwave user and get them to dump it to something more standard. |
| 14:03.21 | starseeker | nods - the latter is probably more practical |
| 14:03.25 | starseeker | if we know anybody |
| 14:06.19 | starseeker | http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/ISS_pieces.png |
| 14:06.47 | starseeker | not a true "CAD" model of course, but nifty |
| 14:07.49 | starseeker | if anyone has a turbosquid account, these two look interesting: |
| 14:07.53 | starseeker | http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3d-model-panzer-2-f/405466 |
| 14:07.58 | starseeker | http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/190990 |
| 14:14.14 | starseeker | wonders why he always has such bad luck with cmake projects... |
| 14:44.47 | ``Erik | does, too... :/ |
| 14:45.38 | ``Erik | one time I fought threw it, had to dig up a bunch of environment variables that weren't documented by cmake, only in mailing list archives and forums troubleshooting things to cope with changing locations of stuff |
| 14:54.26 | ``Erik | lw produces two files iirc, or two kinds of files, um, lwo for object files with geometric info and lw... uh.. somethign else, (lws?) for scene files... which hold locations abd bezier splines iirc... |
| 14:54.43 | ``Erik | hasn't used lw since, like, 4... in the mid 90's, didn't think they'd lasted much after that |
| 14:54.55 | starseeker | yeah, it's the lwo files that Blender can load |
| 14:56.48 | ``Erik | I thought those had pretty good documentation at, uh, that one, uh, 3d file format site, the green one with gold trim, ummm, shoot |
| 14:56.54 | ``Erik | it's been a long time and I just woke up :D |
| 14:57.05 | starseeker | heh |
| 14:57.20 | starseeker | no biggie - just thought the level of detail in that ISS model was kinda cool |
| 14:58.14 | starseeker | ponders a branch for exploratory work on making all of BRL-CAD build with cmake... |
| 15:00.16 | ``Erik | and here I was pondering a branch to make BRL-CAD build on a wider range of systems, we've lost the ability some some of the less common platforms (like old ones) |
| 15:00.51 | starseeker | I thought some of that was a tradeoff between modern coding practices and support for old crap? |
| 15:01.48 | ``Erik | well, where 'modern coding practices' means 'just use such&such library or header', yeah... |
| 15:02.15 | starseeker | aka how much of a modern environment do we implement in libbu... |
| 15:02.38 | ``Erik | I think things like our libsysv and libtermio are just... superfluous if that's what we're doing... |
| 15:03.28 | ``Erik | <-- kinda wants to see 7.16 on bsd43 using a vax11/780 to try to recenter the benchmarks |
| 15:04.46 | ``Erik | (is this the part where I shake my cane and yell "get off my lawn, dang punks!"? :D ) |
| 15:06.01 | ``Erik | (whoever the next release, btw, I'm going to demand a candidate tarball to check out, I'm tired of chasing bugs and making patch files trying to get this damn port updated.) |
| 15:07.51 | starseeker | nods |
| 15:08.35 | starseeker | it's a balancing act - it's nice to be able to "run anywhere" but some some systems really do demand a lot of crap |
| 15:08.44 | starseeker | *cough*Windows*cough* |
| 15:15.53 | ``Erik | heh, yeah, windows is the special kid |
| 15:16.27 | ``Erik | I had access to 'just about everything' when I worked at fedex, once I got into the flow, there were only two annoying OS's... windows and linux |
| 15:16.43 | ``Erik | windows had nothing, linux had everything, but there were subtle differences that made it a special case :/ |
| 15:16.51 | starseeker | nods |
| 15:17.02 | starseeker | hey, at least we don't have to run on Plan9 |
| 15:17.26 | ``Erik | unfortunately, mac is starting to get some of those subtle differences since the fbsd crew ditched their kernel/system team |
| 15:18.57 | ``Erik | (was weird, apple went hard and heavy after all the notable fbsd developers, then there was a chain reaction of fbsd folk leaving apple... I was told by one of them that things were unfun enough in those buildings that someone, they don't know which team, did a "mad shitter" all over a conference room) *shrug* |
| 15:19.41 | starseeker | good lord |
| 15:20.11 | ``Erik | aix, solaris, hpux, etc all have their strangeness, but there're some very strict requirements for the zomfg UNIX tag, so those companies didn't dick around in making sure they met the tests exactly |
| 15:21.40 | ``Erik | and there will always be other os's that do things other ways... plan 9, beos to an extent, heh colorforth, ... a slew of projects that no one uses |
| 15:21.54 | ``Erik | imagine porting BRL-CAD to a lispos |
| 15:22.04 | ``Erik | or a javame machine |
| 15:22.17 | starseeker | figures the only real contender for a "strange" OS that we'll have a real reason to care about is Haiku |
| 15:22.22 | ``Erik | or the iphone |
| 15:22.42 | ``Erik | we only care about haiku because sean likes it... :D *duck* |
| 15:22.42 | starseeker | and brlcad is already on top of building on Haiku |
| 15:22.50 | starseeker | heh |
| 15:23.25 | ``Erik | I imagine if I didn't have such a thing for fbsd and obsd, we wouldn't build on those without a slew of patches |
| 15:23.35 | starseeker | ah, heck with it - I'm gonna go ahead and make a cmake branch as a playground - easy enough to delete if it annoys brlcad |
| 15:23.43 | ``Erik | yeah... |
| 15:23.59 | starseeker | ``Erik: for sure :-) |
| 15:24.14 | ``Erik | I tried to talk richard into making a branch for his obj reader, at least if we see his trash, we might be able to guide him a bit... :/ |
| 15:24.19 | starseeker | even gentoo patches a lot of stuff (sometimes us) and they're Linux... |
| 15:24.25 | ``Erik | but his mindset is very similar to the s2 guys |
| 15:24.34 | starseeker | <wince> |
| 15:24.45 | ``Erik | take your copy, make a private playground, make it all work, and then try to commit it ot the HEAD |
| 15:25.22 | ``Erik | <-- will gladly thrash in public, hoping someone says "uh, that's stupid, just do this" |
| 15:25.27 | starseeker | you'd think the dmtogl branch should be proof positive that we don't need to hide the "doing stupid crap while learning" phase :-P |
| 15:25.37 | ``Erik | I dunno if he saw it |
| 15:25.48 | starseeker | is he subscribed to commits? |
| 15:26.07 | ``Erik | hasn't branched or merged (or even tagged) in svn, so can't really help poor richard |
| 15:26.47 | ``Erik | I test build across 3 os's before I commit, so'z I'll happily thrash around in trunk O:-) |
| 15:26.48 | starseeker | http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.0/ch04s02.html |
| 15:26.58 | ``Erik | yeah, I told him there was very good online documentation |
| 15:27.08 | starseeker | as long as he reads to the line where you use URLs for both source and destination |
| 15:27.10 | ``Erik | I have no need to do it right now, so I'm not gonna look :D |
| 15:27.25 | starseeker | ``Erik: just make trunk work on the old stuff? ;-) |
| 15:27.44 | ``Erik | hehehe, I don't think it'd be... trivial |
| 15:27.51 | starseeker | agrees |
| 15:27.56 | ``Erik | all the c++ stuff, for example, may be out the window |
| 15:28.05 | ``Erik | to renormalize the #'s |
| 15:28.06 | starseeker | old OSs are old for a reason... |
| 15:28.24 | ``Erik | well, it's an exact old machine I want to beat on |
| 15:28.33 | starseeker | the pdp11? |
| 15:28.40 | ``Erik | vax11/780 |
| 15:28.43 | starseeker | ah |
| 15:28.51 | ``Erik | with 43bsd |
| 15:28.58 | ``Erik | vgr as we know it :) |
| 15:29.06 | starseeker | well, you've got BSD, so that's at least a positive start |
| 15:29.22 | starseeker | if you're trying to match compiler versions... yeah good luck with that |
| 15:29.38 | ``Erik | freebsd is a far removed descendant these days |
| 15:30.12 | starseeker | what do you actually want working? just the subset that runs the standard benchmark tests? |
| 15:30.36 | ``Erik | yeah, but that still requires changing a lot |
| 15:30.40 | starseeker | supposes autotools won't fly on 43bsd anyhow, so we could rig up the 43bsd compile for just the parts it needs... |
| 15:31.11 | starseeker | suppose hard part is conditionalizing the parts that use c++? |
| 15:31.12 | ``Erik | would bet a fair amount of money that there is a statistically significant performance difference between BRL-CAD4.x and 7.16 |
| 15:31.59 | ``Erik | yeah, like I said, all te c++ would probably have to go... not sure it'd be worth building a 'modern' c++ compiler |
| 15:32.23 | ``Erik | and we can call the even "the great VGR reset of 2012" |
| 15:32.24 | ``Erik | *cough* |
| 15:32.29 | starseeker | even if you could, the compile would be a month |
| 15:32.42 | starseeker | hehe |
| 15:32.58 | ``Erik | nah, simh lets you set the CPU speed, just grab the fiona apple song "fast as you can" and turn off the limiters |
| 15:33.13 | ``Erik | the tricky part is modifying simh to have the correct i/o delays |
| 15:33.44 | ``Erik | (you can adjust the CPU speed... not the drive speed) |
| 15:34.26 | ``Erik | so our simple scenes that raytrace really fast are slower than vgr and our complex messy scenes are faster than vgr, where I had it tuned |
| 15:34.51 | ``Erik | where the hell did I put the vgr2 image, that'll annoy me some day |
| 15:35.36 | starseeker | did you ask the simh guys if they could add IO speed emulation? |
| 15:36.01 | CIA-85 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r37931 10/brlcad/branches/cmake/: Making a branch to have a place to explore using cmake to build all of BRL-CAD |
| 15:37.38 | ``Erik | no, I tuned it to that point, went "that's odd... ohh, I bet this is what's going on", talked to kermit about the actual hw a little, and promptly ignored it other than occasional fistshaking like just now |
| 15:37.54 | starseeker | heh |
| 15:38.00 | starseeker | is simh still actively developed? |
| 15:38.34 | ``Erik | dunno, but 'actively developed' is the kinda dain-bread red herring notion that mostly comes from a linux person... |
| 15:38.40 | ``Erik | :D |
| 15:39.02 | starseeker | humph. Point being, could they have added IO throttling and we don't know about it? |
| 15:39.04 | ``Erik | it may not have had a release in 10 years, but that might just be because it's "done" and no bugs have surfaced |
| 15:39.35 | ``Erik | possibly, last time I looked at the page, I was looking for a new machien arch, not a new knob |
| 15:39.57 | ``Erik | <-- wants to dick around on a 650... was Knuth's first computer :) |
| 15:40.56 | ``Erik | amusing, slashdot is posting stories that mention HN had it days before O.o :D |
| 15:42.27 | starseeker | heh |
| 15:42.47 | starseeker | ``Erik: the most recent docs seem to be Dec 2008 - is that newer than when you looked last? |
| 15:42.54 | starseeker | http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CAgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsimh.trailing-edge.com%2Fpdf%2Fvax780_doc.pdf&rct=j&q=simh+vax+emulator+IO&ei=NsmTS7vxO863lAfqh-36AQ&usg=AFQjCNHUlHVhJ0i0z7PBpq-TRaCOYLDbZA |
| 15:43.06 | starseeker | er, simh.trailing-edge.com/pdf/vax780_doc.pdf rather |
| 15:44.26 | ``Erik | yeah, that's more recent |
| 15:44.43 | ``Erik | huh, had no idea he was that active |
| 15:45.36 | ``Erik | once I find my image and verify it again, mebbe I'll send him an email and see if he'd be interested in helping :D |
| 15:45.53 | ``Erik | feb 09 looks like the latest, btw |
| 15:46.14 | starseeker | bet he'd be thrilled to be actually useful in a real world situation :-) |
| 15:46.33 | starseeker | always fun when apparently useless code is of interest to someone |
| 15:47.33 | ``Erik | I'm sure it'd been used in data recovery *shrug* |
| 15:47.37 | ``Erik | it is a nifty beast |
| 15:56.16 | ``Erik | other crap to focus on first, though... marching cubes, isst, case, house cleaning, some lisp crap, getting the arm up as my home server |
| 15:58.10 | starseeker | nods |
| 15:59.28 | ``Erik | :o http://www.popsci.com/announcements/article/2010-03/new-browse-137-years-popsci-archive-free |
| 15:59.34 | ``Erik | there goes my next month :( |
| 16:00.10 | starseeker | COOL! |
| 16:00.36 | starseeker | notes the earliest ones are out of copyright now |
| 16:02.08 | ``Erik | yeah, I saw a graph showing comparison of when it was written to when it becomes public,everything before mickey mouse is all public |
| 16:02.36 | ``Erik | 1928, fwiw |
| 16:03.30 | starseeker | notes there are even those who think the US federal government should assert copyright over its work, because it produces work that is "commercially viable" |
| 16:03.40 | ``Erik | damn disney |
| 16:03.53 | starseeker | hates that some people think everything that can be controlled and sold should be |
| 16:04.20 | ``Erik | well |
| 16:04.42 | ``Erik | I'd argue that you hate people who believe that money is the goal of life |
| 16:04.54 | starseeker | I guess that follows |
| 16:05.13 | ``Erik | I sell my GPL'd software for recognition, reciprocity, and the hope that it'll be useful to someone |
| 16:05.22 | starseeker | oh, sure |
| 16:05.23 | ``Erik | and I control it using copyright and license |
| 16:05.58 | ``Erik | I'd rather have the occasional email explaining the neat stuff made with my bits than a few bucks |
| 16:06.02 | starseeker | but I don't think you'd have objection to the public domain after some period of time, yes? |
| 16:06.04 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 16:07.25 | ``Erik | no, and I think you were there just a couple days ago when I stated that I think software should have all source components submitted to a central (probably gov't) repository to be opened up after expiration, and that copyright on software should be something like 7 years |
| 16:08.56 | ``Erik | downloading winnt4.0.src.zip from the library of congress might be an amusing episode of self brain-mutilation :D |
| 16:11.05 | ``Erik | ah, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_copyright_law has the chart I was talking about, about 2/3 down the page |
| 16:35.28 | ``Erik | ch'know, I should make it a point to buy new computer toys at the beginning of summer, it's too cold downstairs to play with 'em, so I keep walking up and down to reset |
| 16:37.47 | starseeker | heh |
| 16:38.12 | starseeker | grabs VTK's cmake stuff as a good starting point... |
| 16:41.33 | ``Erik | (why qt over, say, fox? or wx? or?) |
| 16:43.45 | ``Erik | and, uh, WOW, my openrd thingie must store 'last known network' and use it if it can't find dhcp, otherwise that tftpboot shouldn't have worked... neat |
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| 16:51.32 | ``Erik | "if stouffer's didn't make french breaded pizzas I'd have to learn how to hunt or something" nice |
| 17:12.13 | starseeker | hmm? Vtk has good cmake scripts, 'cause it's by Kitware, same folks who do cmake. Nothing to do with Qt as yet |
| 17:12.46 | ``Erik | was an unrelated query |
| 17:12.56 | ``Erik | qt uses qmake, not cmake, anyways |
| 17:16.03 | starseeker | ah |
| 17:16.12 | starseeker | Qt == nice cross platform support |
| 17:16.21 | starseeker | among other reasons |
| 17:16.30 | starseeker | brlcad can give you more details |
| 17:16.43 | starseeker | notes this URL for later consideration: http://www.koders.com/noncode/fidB9CA553300122F1C847FEDC512B63A963185CA0F.aspx?s=iostream |
| 17:17.28 | starseeker | plplot may be a useful cmake resource... |
| 17:57.39 | CIA-85 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r37932 10/brlcad/branches/cmake/ (15 files in 2 dirs): |
| 17:57.39 | CIA-85 | BRL-CAD: Start with the VTK cmake logic as a template, and 'read alongside' configure.ac |
| 17:57.39 | CIA-85 | BRL-CAD: to map jobs between Autotools and CMake. Right up front, annoying issue - will |
| 17:57.39 | CIA-85 | BRL-CAD: need to create Date/Time solution for Windows, and make a cmake script to |
| 17:57.39 | CIA-85 | BRL-CAD: conditionally run it or date based on OS. |
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| 21:26.58 | ``Erik | starts installing the base system to a shiney new 4g drive |
| 21:27.46 | Stattrav | ``Erik: Is brlcad applying for GSoC slots this time too ? |
| 21:28.19 | ``Erik | um, call for applications hasn't come out again, but I'm sure we'll be applying again, probably asking for ~4 slots, mebbe 5? *shrug* |
| 21:28.33 | Stattrav | ``Erik: it has |
| 21:28.38 | Stattrav | they start from 8th |
| 21:28.50 | ``Erik | 8th, like, tomorrow? |
| 21:29.08 | Stattrav | http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/timeline |
| 21:29.11 | ``Erik | GSoC is all doen from PST, GMT-8 I think |
| 21:29.14 | Stattrav | yes exactly |
| 21:29.20 | ``Erik | so tomorrie |
| 21:29.22 | Stattrav | yeah |
| 21:29.48 | ``Erik | yeah, well, ... so we can submit our package... tomorrow... |
| 21:30.11 | ``Erik | we don't announce things like # of slots and successes and stuff until they're fully through the system |
| 21:30.31 | ``Erik | so we can't tell you until, um, looks like the 18th |
| 21:30.35 | jonored | certainly intends on trying this year, now that he has time to actually put some time in on proposal and such. |
| 21:31.31 | Stattrav | yups :) |
| 21:31.32 | ``Erik | imagines we'll ask for 4-5 slots, but *shrug* doesn't know |
| 21:32.10 | Stattrav | ``Erik: i was wondering if there are any specific project ideas out there. |
| 21:32.14 | ``Erik | the guy at the center of the hurricane is on vacation at the moment |
| 21:32.31 | Stattrav | aah sean ? |
| 21:32.50 | ``Erik | when we have slots, we'll probably list some ideas... for a mish-mash list, there's http://brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html |
| 21:33.13 | Stattrav | aah great! i did go through that thanks |
| 21:33.22 | ``Erik | there's also the TODO list |
| 21:34.22 | Stattrav | yeah so time to try sending in a patch i guess. If i get rejected this time from this org again, that would be the final strike ;) |
| 21:34.29 | Stattrav | that ist he third |
| 21:35.19 | ``Erik | bear in mind, though, when we don our robes and meat ina n underground cavern lit only by candles, we discuss things like 'neat', 'tractable', and 'useful' |
| 21:35.35 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:35.51 | ``Erik | every rejection should have come with constructive criticism... |
| 21:36.32 | ``Erik | and we try to keep the accepted vs applied ratio fairly low, there are just so few maintainers and so many applicants, we have to keep balance... |
| 21:36.52 | Stattrav | ``Erik: absolutely! first time was just a lame application, but the second one was something i put in a good amount of effort in but sean had some given me some good reviews those would surely help |
| 21:37.03 | ``Erik | mind if I ask? |
| 21:38.14 | ``Erik | no acceptance or rejection is the work of one person, sean is just an excellent mouthpiece as well as organizer... I recall your name, I don't recall the patch you submitted last go-around :) |
| 21:38.29 | Stattrav | yeah i know, i pulled it back as it had some deficiencies :) |
| 21:39.08 | ``Erik | we also have a couple years of public history now, you can look at accepted and rejected folk and the patches they submitted for ideas on scope... |
| 21:39.17 | Stattrav | true i needed some practice in programming got used to lazy way of programming in Python and messed up some memory issues:) |
| 21:39.26 | Stattrav | yeah sure |
| 21:40.07 | Stattrav | ``Erik: well this was the proposal http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Hippieindamakin87 |
| 21:40.20 | ``Erik | when we have ~20-30 people submitting reasonable applications and only 4-5 people who can mentor, we're kinda forced to set the bar very high, and so many poeple submit such good stuff, it almost gets to the point where we look for any detractor to knock someone out... |
| 21:40.26 | ``Erik | ohhhh, hippi, aight |
| 21:40.37 | ``Erik | I thought you'd gotten into one |
| 21:41.02 | Stattrav | ``Erik: naah it finally went to joe. he deserved it i guess for all the work he has put in |
| 21:41.16 | Stattrav | :s/has/had |
| 21:41.30 | ``Erik | ahhh |
| 21:41.59 | ``Erik | I remember ya in chan, and that brep-on-brep thing was worked on... *shrug* :) not completed, but worked on |
| 21:42.10 | Stattrav | yeah |
| 21:42.15 | ``Erik | last go-around, I was kinda a meta-mentor |
| 21:42.20 | Stattrav | oh great |
| 21:42.34 | Stattrav | just the person whom i can ask what the current status is |
| 21:42.38 | ``Erik | I honestly thought I was going to move in the middle of it, so I didn't want much commitment... |
| 21:42.46 | Stattrav | aah |
| 21:42.49 | ``Erik | it's ... in the repo? |
| 21:43.05 | Stattrav | so the latest checkout should have it all |
| 21:43.09 | ``Erik | I may've spent more time helping a couple new mentors than students *shrug* |
| 21:43.18 | Stattrav | lol |
| 21:43.18 | ``Erik | yeah, it should be committed, that's part of the GSoC contract |
| 21:43.30 | ``Erik | and our interpretation of |
| 21:44.46 | Stattrav | well, this time i tried applying for grad studies in geometric modelling but realized i wont get through as my grades in my core courses are bad like 2.5/4 |
| 21:45.12 | ``Erik | well, the ideas page is still there (and maintained), the TODO file is still there, start rolling some ideas around in your head and thinking of a way to show us that you know how to and can be trusted to play in our sandbox well... and around the 18th or a bit after, new pages will appear at http://brlcad.org/ for students to consider |
| 21:45.37 | Stattrav | yeah sure thanks a lot |
| 21:45.46 | ``Erik | but like I said, we sit around and discuss both the merits and advantages of.. .both the students and the ideas |
| 21:46.10 | ``Erik | and we had one student with an idea... that we wanted really really bad, but surrendered to another group who wasn't as application-rich as we were :) |
| 21:46.30 | Stattrav | aah! |
| 21:47.48 | ``Erik | so, y'know, apply to a few projects, apply a few ideas (if we allow it this time), see what happens... don't take anything personal, there's an awful lot of ad hoc decisions, some in favor of 'open source' vs 'BRL-CAD', some pretty much flipping a coin |
| 21:48.12 | Stattrav | I am being forced by a mentor of the org sahana to apply but well my academic interest lies in this, so still havent given up after two strikes |
| 21:48.58 | Stattrav | sure |
| 21:48.59 | ``Erik | we even try to provide semi-contructive feedback to people who's patch bit is somethign like "sed -i.bak 's/ [ ]*$//' `find . -name '*.[ch]'`" |
| 21:49.50 | ``Erik | if you were looking for a job and were rejected after two interviews, would you give up that career? |
| 21:50.01 | poolio | yes. |
| 21:50.07 | poolio | howdy ``Erik :) |
| 21:50.12 | ``Erik | ben, shut it or I'll shut it for ya :D |
| 21:50.22 | Stattrav | obviously not :) |
| 21:50.53 | Stattrav | haha poolio seems like you never had to |
| 21:50.56 | ``Erik | this is a rare event, I'm trying to be constructive and supportive, ya'll go open your furry-assed mouth and say sht like that, that just makes me wanna stomp ya down :D |
| 21:51.26 | ``Erik | starseeker and brlcad are going to have to go to the hospital for heart attacks after reading that I wasn't being a complete ass here... :D |
| 21:52.10 | Stattrav | lol |
| 21:52.47 | Stattrav | well i am kinda scared of those guys! |
| 21:53.16 | *** join/#brlcad Phurl (~mdupont@ip-81-210-228-126.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 21:53.17 | ``Erik | those guys? starseeker and brlcad? they're kittens, I'm the reigning mean guy here |
| 21:53.48 | Stattrav | yeah! well i never had direct conversations with you regarding technical content. |
| 21:54.11 | ``Erik | oh, well... you're either right or stupid. And right means my way. :D *duck* |
| 21:54.24 | Stattrav | well sometime last time i suggested some Python routines and i got royally bashed. true that i was too stupid to do that |
| 21:54.42 | ``Erik | python is outside of the current scope of BRL-CAD at the moment... |
| 21:55.01 | ``Erik | though at one point, there was python code in the repo |
| 21:55.14 | jonored | Isn't it all C/C++ and tcl at this point? |
| 21:55.27 | Stattrav | and basically getting speedups on python is well a serious PIA |
| 21:55.30 | ``Erik | <-- is a C guy, doesn't even like c++.. and gets a perverse pleasure out of hurting starseekers brain with some of his C tricks |
| 21:55.55 | jonored | Well, C++ is a messy pain. |
| 21:56.01 | ``Erik | panda3d manages fast python pretty well... the 'hard' parts are in c++, but 99% is in python |
| 21:56.12 | Stattrav | hi5-es ``Erik for being a C guy |
| 21:56.15 | ``Erik | jonared: yes, with some shell script stuff, too |
| 21:56.37 | ``Erik | actually, i've been fooling around with the notion of doing a 3d game engine using lisp O:-) |
| 21:56.41 | jonored | tried to get a single file to compile with CGAL last night, and gave up after a few minutes on that one file.. |
| 21:56.47 | ``Erik | via okra and buclet |
| 21:57.01 | jonored | Woot for lisp. CL, scheme, or something else? |
| 21:57.18 | ``Erik | CL, sbcl actually... mebbe ccl if it's better on some platforms |
| 21:57.24 | Stattrav | I have seen people writing C codes and use cpython over it and blah blah blah |
| 21:57.46 | ``Erik | I did an engine that used the 'siod' scheme in the late 90's, but the GC resulted in ugly hiccups (very naive gc) |
| 21:58.15 | jonored | is quite keen on sbcl. Although the lack of first-class continuations in CL is always irritating. |
| 21:58.30 | Stattrav | ``Erik: how long would it take to be familiar with Lisp. Man i have been working on it for 2 months now, i still cant seem to get a hang of it |
| 21:58.33 | ``Erik | yes, but I found a package that does it "well enough" via UCW |
| 21:58.36 | jonored | Apart from that, I prefer CL, but... first-class continuations are so shiny. |
| 21:58.48 | ``Erik | stattrav: after ten years, you're almost ready to be called a novice |
| 21:59.11 | Stattrav | well there is hope as you say |
| 21:59.14 | Stattrav | ;) |
| 21:59.22 | ``Erik | yeah, my first scheme was scheme, and I got decent in continuations... every once in a while, cl makes me go "DOH!" |
| 21:59.37 | Stattrav | i started off with cl |
| 21:59.39 | ``Erik | especially web type stuff, turning a stateless protocol into a stateful machine |
| 21:59.50 | ``Erik | errrr, my first lisp was scheme, srry |
| 22:00.00 | jonored | But there's CLOS... |
| 22:00.10 | ``Erik | clos is damn nice |
| 22:00.26 | ``Erik | it makes oo appreciable... almost as sexy as smalltalk does |
| 22:00.48 | ``Erik | it also hurts c++/java weenies brains |
| 22:01.30 | jonored | heh. Except, perhaps, for the ones who already have the idea of a generic function, just as a programmer convention instead of formally built into the language. |
| 22:01.51 | ``Erik | 'k, bbiab, I have to go to the store or I don't eat tonight, feel free to techno-babble, we read backlog :D |
| 22:02.06 | jonored | lol. I should get food anyways myself. |
| 22:02.20 | Stattrav | i should get to bed myself. Got classes in the morning |
| 22:02.55 | Stattrav | bon apetit ``Erik and jonored |
| 22:03.20 | jonored | just has thesis. And more thesis. Trying to mash topology optimization and manufacturability with fused filament processes together... |
| 22:03.36 | Stattrav | jonored: majoring in manufacturing sciences ? |
| 22:03.47 | Stattrav | a grad student ? |
| 22:04.11 | jonored | No, computer science, but it's substantial enough that I convinced the AI in design prof here to let me do it. |
| 22:04.38 | jonored | But a grad student. |
| 22:04.48 | Stattrav | aah naice at wpi itseems |
| 22:05.03 | jonored | Yep. Prof. Brown. |
| 22:06.03 | Stattrav | cool. I shall try my grad school applications next year. |
| 22:06.13 | jonored | Incidentally also the editor for the AI EDAM journal, which is almost intimidating. |
| 22:06.27 | Stattrav | wooh |
| 22:07.33 | jonored | Anyhow... I should get back to it. |
| 22:07.53 | Stattrav | goodluck |
| 22:08.51 | jonored | If I can get this to work, I'll have something to put between brl-cad and a reprap to make the thing light and print faster while still doing the job :) |
| 22:46.14 | *** part/#brlcad jonored (~jonored@LAZARUS.WIFI.WPI.EDU) |
| 22:54.52 | ``Erik | ahhh |
| 23:14.59 | ``Erik | nice http://www.icanhasforce.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/star-wars-boba-fett.jpg |
| 23:25.04 | *** join/#brlcad jesica__ (~jesica@190.177.162.123) |
| 23:31.20 | starseeker | hmm, cool: http://annealingtechnologies.blogspot.com/2010/02/wix-and-cpack-integration.html |
| 23:31.40 | starseeker | ``Erik: LOL |
| 23:32.10 | starseeker | wouldn't be surprised to see that on Sean's door someday... :-P |
| 23:37.10 | CIA-85 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r37933 10/brlcad/branches/cmake/CMakeLists.txt: Playing around with the CMakeLists.txt file a bit - will need to study the path settings a bit, especially how they're handled on Windows. |
| 23:38.03 | ``Erik | And bsd. And hpux. And aix. And irix. And solaris. And haiku. And ... :D |
| 23:47.54 | starseeker | <snort> Most systems have /usr/brlcad as an "OK" location |
| 23:48.10 | starseeker | doesn't even know if CMake runs on Haiku, come to think of it... |
| 23:48.36 | ``Erik | sane systems, but not, say, gentoo |
| 23:48.38 | ``Erik | :D |
| 23:49.13 | starseeker | heh - well, there's what's sane and what the "official" repository policy will tolerate |
| 23:49.14 | ``Erik | (and solaris is 'ok' with it there, but would prefer /opt/brlcad for example) |
| 23:49.36 | starseeker | they tend to flip out over some things - like including altered versions of libraries |
| 23:49.49 | starseeker | (IIRC that's why nobody packages Handbrake...) |
| 23:50.12 | ``Erik | like handbrake.fr handbrake? |
| 23:56.44 | *** join/#brlcad jesica__ (~jesica@190.177.191.102) |
| 23:56.49 | ``Erik | just doesn't see any significant advantage to changing build systems and does see potential disadvantages... has yet to see what svn really buys over cvs other than requiring installing a new package (plus deps) on all his machines and having to set paths to avoid using the old versions *shrug* :) |
| 23:57.12 | ``Erik | "for the sake of being shiney and new" is an invalid reason to me... I went and hit the 'old' phase a ways back |
| 23:57.23 | ``Erik | evening, nohla |
| 23:58.26 | ``Erik | moving to cmake seems even more dubious of a notion than moving to svn to me *shrug* :) now get off my lawn O.o |
