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| 01:51.17 | starseeker | yukonbob: I've heard git is getting baround in the usability department |
| 01:51.49 | starseeker | doesn't want to maintain a version control system too ;-) |
| 01:52.46 | starseeker | er better all around even |
| 01:53.51 | starseeker | ``Erik: main complaint I hear about darcs is that it doesn't scale well |
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| 01:56.15 | starseeker | yukonbob: looks like these guys are handling git on windows: http://code.google.com/p/msysgit |
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| 02:00.18 | starseeker | ponders... hv3 very likely has some good stuff buried in it that could live as separate, smaller tcl/tk packages... |
| 02:01.28 | starseeker | the most obvious one that comes to mind is pulling out the image display stuff and making tkhtml3img or some such a package |
| 02:02.19 | starseeker | sorta enable building up html viewers between our man page viewer and hv3 |
| 02:05.42 | starseeker | blinks - tkhtml.sf.net is already registered |
| 02:06.47 | starseeker | back in August |
| 02:08.46 | starseeker | kdulcimer... not a nick I immediately recognize |
| 02:10.14 | starseeker | hmm Unless he was forking under GPL, he's got the wrong license up |
| 02:10.49 | starseeker | grins evilly - well, we could always register tkhtml3.sf.net |
| 02:11.23 | starseeker | net |
| 02:11.52 | starseeker | hmm - doing screen from a Windows terminal seems to have it's share of quirks |
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| 02:17.38 | ``Erik | O.o cygwin? |
| 02:23.23 | starseeker | msys |
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| 02:39.03 | ``Erik | tkhtml.sf.net seems to have nothing of note in the svn repo and no files... perhaps they were unaware of the existing tkhtml and are trying to create one form scratch? or are just placeholding (with a damn donation link) |
| 02:39.24 | ``Erik | they might be willing to relinquish if ya talked to them/him? *shrug* |
| 02:41.07 | ``Erik | hm, but they reference hv3 |
| 02:43.37 | talcite | tkhtml3.sf.net might end up being useless if we ever go to tkhtml4 =) |
| 02:45.50 | ``Erik | therealtkhtml.sf.net heh |
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| 02:45.59 | ``Erik | *shrug* they may be willing to surrender the project if they're not actively pursuing it and just want it to work (and think you'd actually keep up on it) |
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| 02:47.25 | ``Erik | (notice how I distance myself from responsibility there... I've been in the corporate world too damn long :D ) |
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| 03:05.49 | brlcad | starseeker: actually want to ditch the 3 suffix .. |
| 03:06.00 | brlcad | versioned project names that don't have a recognizable trademark are pretty rediculous |
| 03:10.31 | brlcad | i noticed the sf project a couple months ago |
| 03:11.02 | brlcad | looks like a placeholder effort, someone was going to fork (or did in private and isn't used to public repos) |
| 03:11.48 | brlcad | can always ask, or attempt a sf takeover, or change the name ;) |
| 03:14.13 | brlcad | if drh is willing to set up fossil and be a support line, I'm willing to give it a try -- that in itself provides a tracker system and an integrated wiki |
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| 03:23.34 | ``Erik | plus the legitimacy of having the previous maintainer 'bless' it |
| 03:28.54 | starseeker | votes for also asking about the sf site, just in case |
| 03:29.13 | brlcad | already asked |
| 03:29.17 | starseeker | ah :-) |
| 03:29.47 | starseeker | should have known ;-) |
| 03:30.17 | ``Erik | ah, but when you asked it was just a random cold-call... this drh feller has agreed to pass the torch now, so that might carry more weight |
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| 03:30.35 | ``Erik | could also be that back when brlcad asked, they were full of vim and vigor (and maybe some emacs), and now they've gone cold on the idea |
| 03:31.06 | starseeker | could be |
| 03:31.32 | brlcad | no, I mean I *just* asked |
| 03:31.50 | brlcad | didn't matter before today, and still kinda don't care much |
| 03:32.49 | brlcad | also drh is just one of two devs, current maintainer is listed as dlk |
| 03:32.56 | brlcad | unclear how they interact |
| 03:33.28 | brlcad | dlk was cool with the takeover, drh said then he'd set up fossil |
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| 03:34.12 | ``Erik | ah, 'k |
| 03:34.34 | starseeker | shrugs - well, I'm game to give fossil a go on something minor like tkhtml |
| 03:35.22 | starseeker | ponders trying to reverse his earlier humiliation trying to get TEA and autotools to play nice... |
| 03:36.03 | ``Erik | if fossil isn't up to snuff, can we migrate off of it while retaining the history |
| 03:36.07 | ``Erik | ? |
| 03:36.18 | starseeker | not sure |
| 03:36.24 | brlcad | dont' see why not |
| 03:37.35 | starseeker | if all else fails there's always pulling diffs and patching to recreate the history via scripting |
| 03:38.00 | brlcad | yep |
| 03:38.36 | starseeker | not really sure how much tkhtml will change - probably depends on whether the tcl/tk community starts contirbuting patches |
| 03:38.58 | ``Erik | <-- doesn't know anything about fossil, feels the need to ask the obvious questions (be surprised how often there're missed obvious things) |
| 03:39.45 | starseeker | ``Erik: plus, we'll be syncing the things we care about into our subversion copy anyway |
| 03:48.13 | ``Erik | ugliest mfc ever? :) |
| 03:49.44 | starseeker | mmm? |
| 03:50.32 | ``Erik | merge from current |
| 03:50.39 | starseeker | ah |
| 03:50.51 | ``Erik | (from fbsd's cvs shtuff) |
| 03:50.59 | starseeker | thought you were talking about a windows api |
| 03:51.04 | ``Erik | ehhhh |
| 03:51.26 | ``Erik | microsoft foundation classes was just nasty... a halfassed class wrapping around win16, then win32 |
| 03:51.40 | ``Erik | actually got money for coding in it :( |
| 03:51.48 | ``Erik | in, uh, '96 |
| 03:52.03 | ``Erik | I'm such a whore :~( heheheh |
| 03:52.13 | starseeker | kinda like boxing with handcuffs on? |
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| 03:52.41 | ``Erik | well, after doing mfc and borland owl |
| 03:53.12 | ``Erik | and attempting to do ANY gui programming on leenewx (amulet, xaw, even motif), java's awt was ... nice |
| 03:53.15 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 03:53.31 | ``Erik | then I did qt, which sucked but had an awesome tutorial, then gtk which was just ... the least painful |
| 03:53.59 | starseeker | heh |
| 03:54.01 | ``Erik | but bear in mind, c++ on gcc 2.7 with a 120mhz cyrix was a sssslllloooowwwww painful compile |
| 03:54.16 | starseeker | plus, that was some ancient Qt... |
| 03:54.24 | ``Erik | I spent a nontrivial amount of time reorganizing and tweaking headers to make my game engine at the time compile fast |
| 03:55.02 | ``Erik | like, 10s fast when the c++ engines my peers were writing did the same functionality but took like half an hour a pop |
| 03:55.16 | ``Erik | I learned dirty dark cpp secrets in those days :) |
| 03:55.38 | ``Erik | these days, I don't abuse cpp at all, it's all clean and simple and easy to read O:-) |
| 03:55.58 | starseeker | reads yahoo mail and sees he is behind the times |
| 03:56.23 | starseeker | ``Erik: heh. Yeah, c++ abuse was a common crime in the early days |
| 03:56.36 | ``Erik | I wanna say qt1.2? gtk/gnome was around .010 |
| 03:56.39 | ``Erik | no, cpp, not c++... |
| 03:56.45 | ``Erik | the preprocessor |
| 03:56.48 | starseeker | ah |
| 03:56.55 | starseeker | (stupid naming conventions...) |
| 03:57.17 | ``Erik | cpp is the preprocessor... c++ is .c++, .cxx, .C or .cc |
| 03:57.27 | ``Erik | :D |
| 03:59.15 | brlcad | yeah, that's msvc's suffix bastardization |
| 03:59.31 | brlcad | .cxx or .c++ ftw |
| 03:59.39 | ``Erik | ms products flip on .c++ |
| 03:59.56 | ``Erik | I tend to use .cxx and .hxx when I'm forced to touch that language |
| 04:00.59 | ``Erik | (the template approach to the partial evaluation problem is interesting... ugly but functional... gotta say that for the lang) |
| 04:02.35 | ``Erik | bah, the brep stuff all has .cpp in our librt and conv dirs |
| 04:02.45 | ``Erik | and proc-db |
| 04:03.01 | ``Erik | ponders a bit of time to do a bunch of svn mv's tomorrow |
| 04:04.05 | ``Erik | (screwdrivers ftw.) |
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| 04:07.06 | starseeker | ``Erik: works for me |
| 04:07.14 | starseeker | what convention does opennurbs use? |
| 04:10.42 | ``Erik | windows style |
| 04:10.46 | ``Erik | it's a windows program |
| 04:10.58 | ``Erik | *nix is an afterthought |
| 04:11.45 | starseeker | waits to see ``Erik attempt to convince the Rhino folk to change all their file suffixes |
| 04:13.53 | ``Erik | heh, no |
| 04:18.24 | ``Erik | my tenure as a winderz user was feb '96 to oct '96, somewhere I have a printout of the rhino3d manual from that era O.o they've been at it a while |
| 04:18.39 | ``Erik | that they released what they did under a reasonable license is boggling |
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| 04:30.59 | yukonbob | starseeker: re: git -- not surprised. |
| 04:31.54 | starseeker | ``Erik: how is it boggling? |
| 04:32.13 | yukonbob | and while I love Unix, and thinks it's nearly infinately superior to Windows, the distinct lack of respect for Windows as a platform that seemed to be the culture of git was... baffling. |
| 04:32.17 | ``Erik | proprietary windows software giving away part of their core? |
| 04:32.25 | brlcad | kdulcimer is amenable to granting admin on the sf.net project |
| 04:32.33 | ``Erik | under an lgpl friendly license? |
| 04:32.35 | starseeker | brlcad: sweet |
| 04:32.56 | brlcad | he's not a coder, was just setting up a place to host an svn repo for it, but couldn't figure it out |
| 04:33.07 | ``Erik | he and monkey will want to continue to be involved/admin? |
| 04:33.14 | starseeker | yukonbob: not too surprising - original concept by head Linux guy for Linux kernel |
| 04:33.41 | starseeker | ``Erik: as I understand it, they gave away that part 'cause it's the part needed to convert things to/from 3dm files |
| 04:33.47 | yukonbob | starseeker: of course, but how many years does it take to make something portable... it's _only_ a lightweight scm (ffs) |
| 04:33.49 | brlcad | he runs a linux distro called tinyme, probably someone needed tkhtml for some package |
| 04:34.10 | starseeker | yukonbob: true |
| 04:34.15 | ``Erik | saw the tinyme, assumed that was the reason, thus the 'just wants it to work' comment way earlier, srry if'n ah waren't clear |
| 04:35.03 | brlcad | so it's an option if fossil flops |
| 04:35.34 | ``Erik | is it worth adopting and pointing to fossil, to avoid any confusion? |
| 04:35.45 | yukonbob | anyway -- *I* like fossil (back to original discussion) and I bet you would too if you took a deeper look at it, and perhaps had a chat w/ drh -- no question git is cool too, and my previous notes (portablity, diffcult interface, tonnes of binaries) may not even apply now -- it's been a while since I've taken a close look at it... |
| 04:36.20 | brlcad | not too worried about it, its just a minor dependency distraction at best |
| 04:36.26 | yukonbob | I'm sure git is "winning" on the installation-front (i.e. more projects hosted by git) as far as dscm's go... |
| 04:36.47 | ``Erik | git has annoyed me every time I've used it (as an anonymous co/up)... darcs, cvs and svn are all less... annoying |
| 04:37.16 | ``Erik | I don't see mercurial in my 'make this sane' scripts |
| 04:37.43 | brlcad | fossil as documented sounds just fine -- my main concern for something major are the same as I had with SVN |
| 04:37.44 | yukonbob | ^--- what does this mean? It's already sane, or too insane to bother putting in your scripts? |
| 04:37.52 | brlcad | just that it's relatively new and unproven |
| 04:38.05 | brlcad | every code has bugs, and having one in your scm can be deadly |
| 04:38.11 | ``Erik | no, none of my mirrors use hg |
| 04:38.42 | yukonbob | brlcad: drh has subjected it to quite a bit of rigour wrt design, and I'll bet tests... to which he's certainly not a stranger... the strength of sqlite is it's _massive_ test sutie. |
| 04:38.46 | yukonbob | *suite |
| 04:38.59 | brlcad | that can be said of most codes |
| 04:39.13 | ``Erik | I have a slew of lisp 'libraries' that I pull straight from vcs, with scripts and makefiles to automate as much as possible.. I do a "make update-all" at the toplevel and it goes |
| 04:39.18 | brlcad | not quite the same as having orders of magnitude of additional eyes and projects stressing every corner case |
| 04:39.19 | yukonbob | brlcad: I believe it's actually also driven by a client request, though I'm not sure details; might be interesting. |
| 04:40.08 | brlcad | it's not like adopting an editor and it being okay if it crashes only one out of a thousand times |
| 04:40.16 | brlcad | or even one out of a million |
| 04:40.17 | yukonbob | brlcad: no, it's different, to be sure, but drh still writes tonnes of tests, and has some interesting talked avail online about methods for writing such tests, including coding consideration, etc. He's a confidence inspiring guy. |
| 04:40.51 | yukonbob | he figures the repos are intrinsicly uncorruptable. |
| 04:40.51 | brlcad | that's faith-based confidence, which has little value with me ;) |
| 04:41.01 | yukonbob | it is. |
| 04:41.05 | ``Erik | heh |
| 04:41.07 | ``Erik | jobs aura? |
| 04:41.09 | yukonbob | you'd have to review the code yourself |
| 04:41.26 | brlcad | code reviews are mildly useless |
| 04:41.37 | yukonbob | quits advocating. |
| 04:41.39 | brlcad | for the level of obscure bugs I'm referring to |
| 04:41.58 | starseeker | yukonbob: we're probably going to go with the fossil repo to start |
| 04:42.24 | brlcad | 3rd party independent testing getting hundreds of varied projects using it without flaw, seeing reported defects slow/disappear |
| 04:42.25 | ``Erik | personally, I still think cvs is the shizzle forizzle :) sucks for binary objects, but is more than ready for text material, provided your developers have a mediocum of self control |
| 04:42.29 | brlcad | yeah, I don't care about tkhtml :) .. we can use it for that :) |
| 04:42.44 | brlcad | cvs is one of the most hardened scm's for all it's problems |
| 04:43.28 | ``Erik | if you commit, rm, add, commit with msg of to/from... it's all good |
| 04:44.15 | ``Erik | has not been above mv'ing files in the repo itself at all times, though :( |
| 04:44.50 | brlcad | when you only have 1000 users, a 1-in-a-million unrecoverable bug is practically undetectable; when you have ten million users, a 1-in-a-million bug is probably going to get identified |
| 04:44.53 | ``Erik | or committing acts of admin -o |
| 04:45.13 | starseeker | yukonbob: the idea is to have tkhtml be a tcl/tk community project, not a BRL-CAD project - we just need to get the pump primed again ;-) |
| 04:45.30 | yukonbob | ah... |
| 04:45.37 | starseeker | so if the tcl/tk community is good with it, no problem |
| 04:45.47 | ``Erik | how enamored is the tcl/tk community with fossil? |
| 04:45.51 | starseeker | we maintain our own copy in svn anyway :-) |
| 04:46.03 | starseeker | yeah, that's my question too |
| 04:46.09 | starseeker | if they're ok with it, it's good |
| 04:46.14 | brlcad | doesn't really matter |
| 04:46.29 | brlcad | if it works, and is easy enough to use.. |
| 04:46.42 | brlcad | it's one less step to revive the project |
| 04:46.46 | ``Erik | brlcad: that's a functional attitude, not a social one |
| 04:47.01 | yukonbob | tkhtml is not a stranger to it, and that drh is part of the tcl/tk community (he's former tct, and sqlite was built originally as tcl extension) some may be more likely to use it, some certainly do, but the "community" are not zealots about it |
| 04:47.17 | starseeker | ``Erik: I think he means people probably won't worry about it too much |
| 04:47.23 | brlcad | absolutely |
| 04:47.30 | starseeker | lord knows I pull lisp code from all sorts of repos |
| 04:47.41 | ``Erik | yeh, lisp sucks like that |
| 04:47.48 | starseeker | (I have a script system similar to yours, from the sound of it - kinda cool :-) |
| 04:47.49 | ``Erik | everything but fossil (and mercurial) |
| 04:47.54 | brlcad | actually I mean I'm not going to worry about it too much .. this isn't a major problem being solved :) |
| 04:48.46 | brlcad | if it works without hassle, great .. it'll have one of the previous maintainer's blessing and continued involvement while still providing a public infrastructure where development can continue |
| 04:49.09 | starseeker | yukonbob: if we get people merging back their tkhtml3 fixes into the new "main tree" we'll call it a success |
| 04:49.16 | brlcad | the docs looked like it's pretty simple enough to use, and if I don't have to set it up, even better |
| 04:50.06 | yukonbob | the build generates a single binary, which acts as client/server, including http interface for webbrowser. |
| 04:50.26 | starseeker | um - which build? you mean hv3? |
| 04:50.42 | starseeker | or fossil? |
| 04:50.45 | yukonbob | oh -- I thought was talking still about fossil. |
| 04:50.48 | brlcad | most concerned about 1) getting access so we can grant other people access that are interested, 2) getting existing patches integrated, 3) getting a separation of hv3 and tkhtml3, 4) getting public infrastructure set up for easy patch/bug reporting, 5) getting a new releae posted |
| 04:50.49 | starseeker | ah :-) |
| 04:51.15 | ``Erik | fossil has a tarball download feature, right? (asking with my port maintainer hat on) |
| 04:51.29 | yukonbob | .zip |
| 04:51.38 | starseeker | ``Erik: wouldn't a release tarball do fine? |
| 04:52.06 | brlcad | thinks this is a dead horse and gets back to doing something productive ;) |
| 04:52.08 | starseeker | talcite will probably need one for Fedora |
| 04:52.10 | ``Erik | yes, the fossil website provides for a static link of SOME kinda archive? |
| 04:52.25 | ``Erik | not vcs-only? |
| 04:52.27 | starseeker | brlcad: heh, sorry :-) |
| 04:52.35 | talcite | hmm? |
| 04:52.50 | yukonbob | ``Erik: .zip |
| 04:52.52 | starseeker | you'll want a release tarball of tkhtml for Fedora integration, yes? |
| 04:53.04 | yukonbob | heads to Real Problems too. |
| 04:53.08 | ``Erik | screw fedora, freebsd :) |
| 04:53.17 | starseeker | hehe |
| 04:53.22 | starseeker | anyway, we should be good |
| 04:53.29 | starseeker | is on vacation, heads to non-problems |
| 04:53.34 | ``Erik | if'n there's a static url that I can get a .tar.gz .tar.bz2 or .zip, it's all good |
| 04:53.58 | ``Erik | if not, I'll be a whiney bitch |
| 04:54.14 | starseeker | resists comments that would get his ass kicked next year... |
| 04:54.24 | brlcad | you'll just find some other reason to be a whiney bitch |
| 04:54.37 | ``Erik | :D |
| 04:55.10 | ``Erik | I'd LIKE to split tkhtml3 out of the fbsd port build and make it it's own port... |
| 04:55.46 | ``Erik | that anything in src/other/ has to compile irks me |
| 04:56.09 | starseeker | you and every other distro in existence... |
| 04:57.07 | starseeker | has flashbacks to the Great Gentoo Ebuild Debate... |
| 04:57.46 | brlcad | wants to rename the Utah Raster Toolkit |
| 04:58.00 | starseeker | what'd you have in mind? |
| 04:58.08 | brlcad | nothing as yet |
| 04:58.22 | brlcad | there's the URT toolset and librle/libutahrle |
| 04:58.32 | ``Erik | starseeker: I'm from the fbsd camp... we do things RIGHT, y'all can follow along ;> |
| 04:58.34 | talcite | zip is fine. I can package that |
| 04:58.37 | starseeker | thinks renaming is a good idea |
| 04:58.39 | brlcad | librle works well for that portion |
| 04:58.50 | brlcad | URT is the harder part |
| 04:59.42 | brlcad | rletools |
| 04:59.58 | starseeker | gonna break it out into two separate trees? |
| 05:00.14 | brlcad | we needed to do that for our own purposes |
| 05:00.23 | brlcad | some repos also did similar |
| 05:00.23 | starseeker | ah, k |
| 05:26.03 | talcite | are we using only SCL or also EXPRESS, EXPRESS pretty printer, etc? |
| 05:28.25 | talcite | also, same question about InterViews, ObjectStore as well |
| 05:29.38 | brlcad | we use libexpress |
| 05:29.49 | brlcad | portions of SCL too iirc |
| 05:31.18 | talcite | so build SCL + express, but not IV/OS? |
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| 05:49.45 | talcite | man. SCL is a complete mess |
| 05:49.54 | talcite | calling configure compiles the program! |
| 05:51.34 | brlcad | oh are you working with their original tarball? |
| 05:51.52 | brlcad | there are a slew of build system tweaks it really needed |
| 05:58.38 | talcite | brlcad: ack. Really? Will these be made before release? |
| 05:58.51 | talcite | our release* |
| 05:59.13 | talcite | It's currently blowing up because of compiler name I think |
| 06:02.53 | talcite | blah. I'll look at this tomorrow. Head to sleep now. |
| 07:57.54 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37056 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db5_io.c: quellage |
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| 12:26.45 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r37057 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (128 files): |
| 12:26.45 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: Start of updates to cleanup compile warnings including cleaned up of some |
| 12:26.45 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: variable shadowing, namespace path additions to standard IO items, cleaned up of |
| 12:26.45 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: some CPP defs in the STEP generated code(will need to address in 'fedex') |
| 12:29.20 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r37058 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (34 files): |
| 12:29.20 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: Start of updates to cleanup compile warnings including cleaned up of some |
| 12:29.20 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: variable shadowing, namespace path additions to standard IO items, cleaned up of |
| 12:29.20 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: some CPP defs in the STEP generated code(will need to address in 'fedex') |
| 12:31.50 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r37059 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (55 files): |
| 12:31.50 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: Start of updates to cleanup compile warnings including cleaned up of some |
| 12:31.50 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: variable shadowing, namespace path additions to standard IO items, cleaned up of |
| 12:31.50 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: some CPP defs in the STEP generated code(will need to address in 'fedex') |
| 12:36.15 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r37060 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (127 files): |
| 12:36.15 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: Start of updates to cleanup compile warnings including cleaned up of some |
| 12:36.15 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: variable shadowing, namespace path additions to standard IO items, cleaned up of |
| 12:36.15 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: some CPP defs in the STEP generated code(will need to address in 'fedex') |
| 12:38.36 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r37061 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/SdaiCONFIG_CONTROL_DESIGN.cc: |
| 12:38.36 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: Start of updates to cleanup compile warnings including cleaned up of some |
| 12:38.36 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: variable shadowing, namespace path additions to standard IO items, cleaned up of |
| 12:38.36 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: some CPP defs in the STEP generated code(will need to address in 'fedex') |
| 12:42.32 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: 03indianlarry * r37062 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/clstepcore/ExpDict.h: Cleaned up CPP defs to quell compiler warning. |
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| 15:32.58 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r37063 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/step/src/clstepcore/ExpDict.h: quell some cast warnings... (probably should have a "const char *" method, instead) |
| 15:34.31 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r37064 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/MassUnit.cpp: add missing semicolon |
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| 16:45.09 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:46.49 | ``Erik | 15 second load time, nifty |
| 16:47.25 | ``Erik | 13 that time, must be a nfs vs memory cached thing |
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| 17:24.06 | *** join/#brlcad __monty__ (n=toon@83.129-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 17:24.42 | __monty__ | A bit late, but Happy Anniversary! |
| 17:25.19 | brlcad | :) |
| 17:25.26 | brlcad | thanks __ |
| 17:25.37 | brlcad | er, thanks __monty__ |
| 17:26.03 | __monty__ | Say, are you still working on the brl cad not working on mac thing? |
| 17:26.19 | brlcad | among other things, yes |
| 17:26.39 | __monty__ | Any progress? |
| 17:27.20 | brlcad | some but not ready for an updated test just yet |
| 17:27.41 | __monty__ | Ok. |
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| 17:29.16 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37065 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/nmgmodel.c: quellage and cleanup |
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| 21:46.01 | CIA-38 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r37066 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/step/ (4 files): update a few more overlooked iostreamers to be std:: namespace scoped. |
| 22:21.22 | brlcad | fixes the license on the tkhtml sf.net project |
| 23:03.34 | ``Erik | ah, so ya got r00tage |
| 23:17.34 | ``Erik | brlcad: indianlarry got a call and I didn't have an answer, if someone kills a tree, is there any chance to recoup the data from that file? (it was closed, but nothing else was changed after the kill) |
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| 23:31.22 | brlcad | yeah, I was talking to him about that |
| 23:32.33 | ``Erik | what's the situation at the moment? |
| 23:35.54 | brlcad | well what I'd told him and what I looked up are different |
| 23:36.37 | brlcad | or at least, clarified |
| 23:37.25 | brlcad | so short summary is that some of the data can be recouped, but probably not worth it |
| 23:37.43 | ``Erik | so they added you to the project, but are still listed as admins? was their interest clarified? |
| 23:37.58 | brlcad | you'd have to reconstruct the object type |
| 23:38.04 | ``Erik | wait, what you'd told who? did indianlarry get you about the data loss? |
| 23:38.08 | brlcad | and if it's a small object, it's gone, gets wiped out |
| 23:38.24 | brlcad | yeah, indianlarry and I talked briefly |
| 23:38.36 | ``Erik | ah, I figured that the objects would still be alive, but the names would be gone... it'd be like a lost+found full of inode # files |
| 23:38.37 | brlcad | I thought it was just a flag, but I'm seeing that it's not |
| 23:38.39 | ``Erik | where each file is a primitive |
| 23:38.58 | brlcad | we wipe out the object wrapper, replacing it with a deleted object stub |
| 23:39.18 | brlcad | which is basically like lost+found |
| 23:39.31 | brlcad | but the unfortunate trick is that's only for "large" objects |
| 23:39.37 | brlcad | bigger than a block |
| 23:39.51 | brlcad | so combs are gone gone, most implicit prims are gone |
| 23:40.28 | brlcad | you'd be able to extract binunifs, some BoTs, NMGs, etc |
| 23:40.34 | ``Erik | ah, I didn't think anything was really wiped other than name, it just went into an unused list for reallocation |
| 23:40.48 | ``Erik | fragmentation is a beeyotch |
| 23:41.20 | ``Erik | bob says we'll have undo in a few months, keith thought it was a solid argument for using a geometry server |
| 23:41.37 | brlcad | the "small" objects are small enough that they get wiped to save making extra I/O calls |
| 23:42.06 | brlcad | large are just stubbed similarly, to minimize the I/O with just two small calls instead of an arbitrary large call |
| 23:43.05 | ``Erik | hm, we should probably sort out undo before pushing hard on a new file format, carrying history between sessions could be handy |
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| 23:53.07 | brlcad | we probably could do deletions better, in a semi-recoverable fashion |
| 23:53.13 | brlcad | without breaking format even |
| 23:54.01 | ``Erik | yeh, but I think I like the notion of having a full undelete tree (not list) on opening a file |
| 23:54.04 | ``Erik | space be damned |
| 23:54.20 | ``Erik | mebbe a function or utility to purge history if desired |
| 23:54.27 | ``Erik | so folk can save space, or hide their shame |
| 23:54.39 | ``Erik | does emacs support undo trees? |
| 23:55.03 | ``Erik | vim has a feature where you can undelete a few times, do more edits, then go back down the history and choose which branch to follow for redos |
| 23:55.06 | brlcad | because deleted objects ultimately are just marked with a bit flag |
| 23:55.10 | brlcad | DB5HDR_HFLAGS_DLI_FREE_STORAGE |
| 23:55.21 | brlcad | that already exists |
| 23:55.25 | brlcad | garbage_collect |
| 23:55.50 | brlcad | that will collapse all free space, reclaim space |
| 23:55.54 | ``Erik | garbage collect compacts, but if we retain zomfg undo history in the file, that's an orthogenal issue I think |
| 23:56.03 | brlcad | ahh |
| 23:56.07 | brlcad | that sort of history |
| 23:56.58 | ``Erik | yeh, unless there's any valid concern, I'd advote being able to do a series of edits, quit mged, start mged and open the file and be able to undo down that history set |
| 23:57.33 | brlcad | emacs does a sort of circular linked list undo, where undos themselves are just added to the list so you can undo your undos and fully unwind/rewind |
| 23:57.47 | ``Erik | I would argue that file size isn't an issue until it becomes one, worrying about it now would be wasteful |
| 23:58.06 | ``Erik | yeh, so it doesn't grok branching |
| 23:58.37 | ``Erik | edit a, edit b, edit c, undo, undo, edit d, undo, redo a.... that's possible in vim as of 6.0 |
| 23:58.40 | ``Erik | I think it was 6.0 |